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Summer League Rewind

On Saturday, the Wizards beat the Clippers, 74-64, which featured JaVale McGee posterizing Blake Griffin.

Yesterday the Wiz defeated the Knicks as Dan Steinberg recounted in today's newspaper:

The Washington Wizards closed their summer league schedule with an 89-84 win over the New York Knicks on Sunday in Las Vegas. Second-year center JaVale McGee, who held his own against top overall draft pick Blake Griffin a night earlier, keyed Sunday's win with 31 points, 8 rebounds and 4 blocks. The Wizards finished the session with a 3-2 record, their first winning record in summer league play since 2004.

By Alexa Steele  |  July 20, 2009; 12:59 PM ET
 
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Comments

first!!! so am i the only one starting to get a little geeked up for the season with mcgee and blatche seemingly improved? or do i need a reality check since we were god awful last year and they are playing against guys who will not make a roster?

Posted by: wizfan4 | July 20, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Excitement!!
Our young players have gotten starting experience and will deepen our bench. Add the ideal 2 guard for Gil and the perfect player to back him up...Not to mention, Gil is most probably 100% healthy....

Posted by: merajc86 | July 20, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

You have to wonder, how much of McGee's showing was due to his experience so far in the NBA (in comparison to the other players he faced off against), and how much was due purely to his talent level?

In other words, if McGee opted to wait another year before declaring and came out with this current class, where would he stand among these rookies?

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

first!!! so am i the only one starting to get a little geeked up for the season with mcgee and blatche seemingly improved? or do i need a reality check since we were god awful last year and they are playing against guys who will not make a roster?

You need a reality check...but still be excited.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Didn't get to see any SL games, but can someone tell me if McGee looked any less lost on the court? I know he scored, blocked and rebounded, but did he look like he knew what was going on?

Did he play any real D or just block shots cuz he is crazy athletic?

I love the guy, so I am hoping he clicked and is ready to push Haywood. Fill me in.

Posted by: Blurred | July 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Starters: Arenas, Foye, Butler, Jamison, Haywood

2nd unit: Foye (PG), Young, Miller, Blatche, McGee

3rd string: Crit, McGuire, a big goofy center to give Shaq and the younger Superman 6 fouls

4th string: James, Stevenson

Wins: 50

And so Samson, how did 1) limiting McGee's minutes last year and 2) starting McGuire (versus Young, Blatche or McGee) help the Wiz for this coming season?

Posted by: Izman | July 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm still skeptical. Blatche has tantalized before, but has never backed it up with a consistent effort. McGee is still thin as a rail and succeptible to being backed down by the League's 5s. And there is still no affirmative indication that Arenas is back to being 100%. He has promised us many times before that he is close to being healthy, but after 2.5 years he has yet to deliver. Jamison gets older by the day, Butler's play has staganted at borderline All Star level, Miller is in decline, and Foye has yet to show he's not a bust. I hope to be wrong, but I remain pessimistic.

Posted by: Dellis2 | July 20, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm still skeptical. Blatche has tantalized before, but has never backed it up with a consistent effort. McGee is still thin as a rail and succeptible to being backed down by the League's 5s. And there is still no affirmative indication that Arenas is back to being 100%. He has promised us many times before that he is close to being healthy, but after 2.5 years he has yet to deliver. Jamison gets older by the day, Butler's play has staganted at borderline All Star level, Miller is in decline, and Foye has yet to show he's not a bust. I hope to be wrong, but I remain pessimistic.

LOL...seriously? Just slit your wrists and end it now. It's easier that way.

how did 1) limiting McGee's minutes last year and 2) starting McGuire (versus Young, Blatche or McGee) help the Wiz for this coming season?

Because McGuire was the better play who actually worked hard and earned it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

McGee is most definitely bigger than he was last season. You can tell at a moment's notice that he's put on size. He's not Dwight Howard, but he definitely looks the part of an NBA caliber center (whether he's playing like it is a different story, as I haven't watched any of the summer league games).

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"2) starting McGuire (versus Young, Blatche or McGee) help the Wiz for this coming season?

Posted by: Izman"

It gave the Wizards a 10th option, as opposed to 9, which you listed up above (including a 5th "big" option). And it gave the Wizards a rugged workhorse wing defender to bring off the bench, something none of the earlier 9 players are adept at as of now.

Seriously, if you want to complain that Etan Thomas or Darius Songaila took too many minutes from Blatche or McGee, fine. But if you're complaining that 7'0 center was shunned for a 6'9 wing player that ended up starting at the SG spot, then no manner of logic will get through.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"Butler's play has staganted at borderline All Star level"

Check his passport. He's crossed the all-star border twice already.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

stagnating at all star level is not a bad place for a bballer to stagnate. Blatche is 22. Foye is not a bust and McGee is like every 7' who comes into the league, It takes a few years to be exceptional. Look at Howard. 2 years ago he wasnt dominant. Arenas had a luxery few players have and that is to heal. I have personally torn ligaments so I know how long it takes to heal, 8 months wasnt enough. The starting unit is miller and not foye. And this miller is in decline is silly, And the Jamison is getting older everyday makes sense to me. As long as he scores 20, who cares. McGee scoring is no suprise. He likes to score. Turn around jumper and last year I watched his shot kiss off the backboard on a drive to the basket. What I like most about him is the he way he grabs rebounds. Like he owns it. And his arms are so long he blocks from behind the player. He's a good one and I bet his mom lets him have when he goes home if he screws up. I'm suprised he slid so far down the draftboard, He is more skilled than either lopez. If he had come out this year he might have been the second or third pick. So Grunfeld struck again. I am still a bit miffed he didnt draft Curry. come on! If you are getting Griffin get Curry. Miller and Foye are solid but curry is a star. Wilbon goes on about rubio. Thats what the Wiz need another skinny spanish guy with a buyout.
Thanks for the poison pill. Hes mad because gorden left chicago and hes taking it out on washington. Does anyone want a bsketball player with the name rubio? Sounds like he spends more time riding horses before a photo shoot than spends time on the bball court.

Posted by: firemetalrat | July 20, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"Foye has yet to show he's not a bust."

Ahem, he averaged 16.3 points per game in his third year. Every year in the NBA he's averaged 3 points more than the year before. He averaged 4.3 APG last year, and 3 RPG. What do you have to do to be a bust? Not get better every year?

Posted by: steveh46 | July 20, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I miss the comment that McGuire is a big goofy center. Must be a woman who never misses happy hour. McGuire is listed at 6'9" if he really is that. He is not a center and he happens to be a highly skilled player. In fact, he is arguably the teams best defender and one of their best passers and can run a fast break. If he ever could get a 3 point shot down he would be a real beast on the floor. He is also a very good rebounder.He really can play every position, but he is used primarily at the 2 and 3 fyi

Posted by: firemetalrat | July 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

stagnating at all star level is not a bad place for a bballer to stagnate. Blatche is 22. Foye is not a bust and McGee is like every 7' who comes into the league, It takes a few years to be exceptional. Look at Howard. 2 years ago he wasnt dominant. Arenas had a luxery few players have and that is to heal. I have personally torn ligaments so I know how long it takes to heal, 8 months wasnt enough. The starting unit is miller and not foye. And this miller is in decline is silly, And the Jamison is getting older everyday makes sense to me. As long as he scores 20, who cares. McGee scoring is no suprise. He likes to score. Turn around jumper and last year I watched his shot kiss off the backboard on a drive to the basket. What I like most about him is the he way he grabs rebounds. Like he owns it. And his arms are so long he blocks from behind the player. He's a good one and I bet his mom lets him have when he goes home if he screws up. I'm suprised he slid so far down the draftboard, He is more skilled than either lopez. If he had come out this year he might have been the second or third pick. So Grunfeld struck again. I am still a bit miffed he didnt draft Curry. come on! If you are getting Griffin get Curry. Miller and Foye are solid but curry is a star. Wilbon goes on about rubio. Thats what the Wiz need another skinny spanish guy with a buyout.
Thanks for the poison pill. Hes mad because gorden left chicago and hes taking it out on washington. Does anyone want a bsketball player with the name rubio? Sounds like he spends more time riding horses before a photo shoot than spends time on the bball court.

Ummm...I'm a fan and all..but let's be realistic. McGee wasn't going to be the 2nd or 3rd pick this season. HE IS NOWHERE AS SKILLED AS BROOK LOPEZ. Curry may or may not be an all-star. You don't know...you do know that Foye is still approaching his prime and produced on the NBA level and Miller. Foye would've been a top pick if he came out this year without question and he's not much older. People wanted the Wiz to draft a guard, possibly a combo guard and hope he panned out. They got a combo guard that already showed he could do it. How can you be mad? Because it's not Stephen Curry? I think he'll be a complimentary player...never a #1 player on a team. They basically flipped a #5 in a allegedly weak draft into 25ppg in the backcourt and some payroll flexibilty. What's the problem?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

mcgee's court awareness is slowly improving, still takes too many chances reaching and subsequently taking his massive frame out of the defensive picture, a real no no for bigs especially ones with arms as easy to see committing fouls as his, but his overall positioning and discipline seems to be improving

Posted by: bford1kb | July 20, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

he also seems to be more assertive when he touches the ball in the post, not standing around with the ball and letting his man d him up instead he's been quick and aggressive, I'm not saying this will translate nearly as successfully against non summer leaguers but it's still a step his development needed

Posted by: bford1kb | July 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I still think the Wiz need to do better than adding a 3rd string center. As talented and athletic as McGee and Blatche are, I'm not sure they have that toughness to fight against bigger, stronger guys in the paint defensively. I think if the Wiz could add Drew Gooden to the current squad, they'd be legit contenders if they stay healthy.

Posted by: NobodyBeatsTheWiz | July 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Encouraging signs from the desert, but I'll reserve judgment until I see what the front office does with finding a free agent big and until a couple of preseason runs.

How well will these guys run Saunders' offense after years of EJ's Princeton offense? And what will their defensive sets look like? Will they PLAY defense, or simply try to outscore everyone? Will McGuire move toward becoming a lockdown player, develop his mid-range jumper, or do both? Will Young continue to become a shooter in the style of Rip Hamilton, Reggie Miller, etc.? Will Blatche be good, and, more importantly, consistent?

There were some breakdowns in Summer League, especially against Denver and Minnesota, so it's too hard to get amped. (Plus, it's *just* Summer League.) But there were some good signs. I hope the team can build on those and become cohesive.

-iceberg

Posted by: jcbcmb68 | July 20, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

3rd string: Crit, McGuire, a big goofy center to give Shaq and the younger Superman 6 fouls

4th string: James, Stevenson

Posted by: Izman | July 20, 2009 1:35 PM

No chance that Saunders leaves his only decent perimeter defenders that far off the rotation. You may not like McGuire and Stevenson - but they collect NBA paychecks because of defense.

Posted by: Kev29 | July 20, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

"Starters: Arenas, Foye, Butler, Jamison, Haywood 2nd unit: Foye (PG), Young, Miller, Blatche, McGee 3rd string: Crit, McGuire, a big goofy center to give Shaq and the younger Superman 6 fouls 4th string: James, Stevenson
Wins: 50
And so Samson, how did 1) limiting McGee's minutes last year and 2) starting McGuire (versus Young, Blatche or McGee) help the Wiz for this coming season?"

Hmmm? Not sure I get your point.

You're predicting 50 wins? OK, let's hope you're right. We'll check back at season's end. I'm not much of a predictor, myself. Too many variables.

About those imaginary 'strings', however -- don't you think it's more likely that the coaches will fall into 8-man rotations? With maybe 1 or 2 other players slipping in and out of that rotation. My guess is that McGuire is in that rotation frequently. One thing the Wiz didn't add is a defensive stopper. You see other candidates for slowing down an opponent's best wing scorer?

Last but not least: I thought they should have played the kids 20 minutes on average last season (said so repeatedly). Some of the kids made it (Blatche) and some didn't (McGee, Young). I figure Tapscott was trying to win games last season. He knew he wouldn't be around this season.

You going to grind that axe all year?

Posted by: Izman

Posted by: Samson151 | July 20, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Young did average over 20 mpg. He just didn't start.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I like the fact it's clear Javale was in the weight room this summer. 1st offseason of his career, and he showed something AB and NY have so far failed to do.

Ernie and the coaches obviously notice this stuff, he's going to get big minutes this season and deservedly.

Hopefully that pushes AB too, as there wasn't a real threat to his minutes at 4 previously (Pech sucked, Darious was hurt and not the future).

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully that pushes AB too, as there wasn't a real threat to his minutes at 4 previously (Pech sucked, Darious was hurt and not the future).

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 4:40 PM

i agree..and you would think that it would. But Andray Blatche i feel is so comfortable in his skin that he doesnt feel the need to be pushed. I think if we brought in Gooden or just played Mcguire at the 4 and let andray get splinters from riding the pine, then maybe he might commit to getting better.

its so simple for him to be a 20ppg 10 rbg player in this league. and first it starts with being in shape. after that then learning 3 or 4 low post signature moves, proper techniques for rebounding and blocking shots, lastly a shaq-howard-ming-duncan type mentality of total domination around the rim. if not...then we should expect the same ol 7 and 5 from blatche

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully that pushes AB too, as there wasn't a real threat to his minutes at 4 previously (Pech sucked, Darious was hurt and not the future).

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 4:40 PM

i agree..and you would think that it would. But Andray Blatche i feel is so comfortable in his skin that he doesnt feel the need to be pushed. I think if we brought in Gooden or just played Mcguire at the 4 and let andray get splinters from riding the pine, then maybe he might commit to getting better.

its so simple for him to be a 20ppg 10 rbg player in this league. and first it starts with being in shape. after that then learning 3 or 4 low post signature moves, proper techniques for rebounding and blocking shots, lastly a shaq-howard-ming-duncan type mentality of total domination around the rim. if not...then we should expect the same ol 7 and 5 from blatche

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

I highly doubt Blatche will ever come anywhere close to total domination in any phase of the game. I'd settle for consistent competence at this point.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

The next thing I am going to read is based on yesterday’s game people would have taken JM over Blake if JM had waited and came out the same time Blake did?


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 10:56 AM

If McGee... had come out this year he might have been the second or third pick. So Grunfeld struck again.

Posted by: firemetalrat | July 20, 2009 2:27 PM

Mike,

Can you please make people take a test (to see if they know anything about basketball) before coming on here. The blog's name should be called the Wizard Outsiders?

There was a reason ETaps played DSong instead of JM last year....it's because the kid is clueless.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Any update on Gil's workouts recently?

Guess big guy from Gonzaga not going to pan out?

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | July 20, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I think Blatche is one of those players who plays better when he knows when, where, and how much he's going to play. Not knowing if he's playing C or PF from night to night, or whether he's getting 14 minutes or 30 minutes, or if he's getting yanked after a mistake or being allowed to play through.

Some players, typically, the best ones, are able to perform no matter what situation they find themselves in. Some are better with a limit of position or minutes. Some, and I think Blatche is in this category, need consistency all around them in order to concentrate and be consistent.

For example: tell Blatche that he is the first backup PF. He is going to play 20-30 minutes a night, depending on the flow of game. He is going to come in at certain points in the game. He will play center for about 4-10 minutes during a small lineup rotation.

Be consistent with him, and I don't think negative reinforcement works well with him either. Bringing someone in to push him I don't think is the best way to get the most from him. I remember him over the last three seasons, always quickly looking to the bench whenever he messed up on the court. He clearly played as if he was expecting to get yanked whenever.

Posted by: segastyle | July 20, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know who Flip picked to be the big man coach?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

nick young seems to only regress

8 turnovers! 0 assists?

even if you score thirty points, stats like those countermand them

Saunders is going to bury this guy on the bench

I say trade him while some other fool still thinks he can learn the passing game

Posted by: drfarrow1 | July 20, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

" don't think negative reinforcement works well with him either. Bringing someone in to push him I don't think is the best way to get the most from him."

That very well may be the case, however he has now had 4 seasons to establish his minutes yet has failed to do so. It's now at the point where if someone else is more effective, they should get the minutes.

I guess many of us differ on what we saw from mcgee last year. I saw a young, gangly kid with immense potential and some real dog in him...who hustled his butt off every night, and yes made tons of errors in his rookie campaign.

And who now has added some muscle to a 7' foot frame in which he runs the floor like a gazelle.

To me that screams, get this kid some more PT!!

If it's at the expense of Dre "Summer League" Blatche....it'll be because AB didnt earn his minutes

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

my pick would be....

Jun 15, 2009 ... Bill Laimbeer resigned as coach of the WNBA's Detroit Shock

here is a guy that played with heart and knew how to play the postion. Maybe he could teach BTH, JM and AB to play with some passion. I would have added AJ but we all know you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I wanted Abe to go out and get backup big man with a ring....here is your man and he wouldn't even go against the luxury cap.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

I highly doubt Blatche will ever come anywhere close to total domination in any phase of the game. I'd settle for consistent competence at this point.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 4:56 PM

For once Kal i think we can agree. I dont want to give up the idea that he COULD be dominant, but settling for some consistency would be good enough. But could you imagine if he played like a true warrior how far washington could go? for christ sakes hes almost the same built as Garnett(Garnett is way stronger thought) I just hope that he watches film of karl malone,charles barkley,chris webber,tim duncan, KG, even some pau gasol films would help him out tremendously

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

though***

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

from the dc sports bog: truthaboutit.net


Andray Blatche was frustrating as always. The guy is 7-0 tall and can do basically anything that he wants on the floor, yet his numbers never back it up. He showed no desire in playing defense or rebounding the ball, yet plenty of passion in jacking up jumpers from the perimeter. If someone were to give him a shot of toughness, we’d be looking at a potential all-star. Unfortunately, he hasn’t went to the doctor yet.

which proves the point that he could dominate and carry washington straight to the finals if he played like a warrior. but we will continue to accept bs from him for as long he is in a bullets/wizards uniform

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

jasperhneyaolcom:

That's why players like AB are known as coach killers! Look the part and have the skills...will tantalize for years while underperforming. I am not saying that is AB's future, but it's exactly what he has looked like his whole career.

Which is why I still think ernie is trying to package him in a trade for a less skilled but more rugged player to grab boards and defend.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

for christ sakes hes almost the same built as Garnett

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:22 PM

Do you remember Kwame Brown? It's about having a desire to get better, that's why good teams like San Antonio (that have good scouts) pick the right players versus teams like the Wizards pick guys who never amount to anything. Name one guy who EG has drafted that has gotten better? Devin Harris?

The problem is the organization doesn't have a desire to get better so why should the players?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm wondering if Ernie can get Mike James to take a buyout.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | July 20, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

i think alot of GM's would take blatche. because of his upside. And if he does blossom to be a webber then thats fine for his career, but it wont be the same situation because Webber was drafted to be a franchise player in the first round. Blatche is merely a role player on this wizards team and if we could package him with stevenson, james and throw in a second round draft pick to bring in anyone that could crash then we should do it. I personally like Kyle Landry or Chuck Hayes from houston. They were giving the Laker Big's the business downlow. But i totally agree with the coach killer notion.

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

"which proves the point that he could dominate and carry washington straight to the finals if he played like a warrior."

I fail to see how a quote from a spots blog ripping him for having no heart proves anything, esp. anything in Blatche's favor.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

"i think alot of GM's would take blatche. because of his upside."

A lot of GM's would have drafted him for his upside. A few may even be willing to trade some junk players of their own for his upside. But I doubt many would part with anything of real value for him because 4 years in with little to no improvement in his dedication, commitment, and work ethic and his upside is rapidly approaching downside.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

What's the story on Udonis Haslem? With Beasley in Miami how much will he play? He's always been a very, very solid but not spectacular player. Can rebound, defend, and score.

He makes like $6mill and AB pulls in $3mill...so $3mill net increase on a swap...

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"I guess many of us differ on what we saw from mcgee last year. I saw a young, gangly kid with immense potential and some real dog in him...who hustled his butt off every night, and yes made tons of errors in his rookie campaign.

And who now has added some muscle to a 7' foot frame in which he runs the floor like a gazelle.

To me that screams, get this kid some more PT!!"

That might be true if lack of muscle and bulk were his primary areas of weakness last season. They weren't. McGee's weaknesses were much more mental than physical. He played with energy, but it was random unfocused energy. He was running around with no idea what he was doing. It's going to take more than some extra time in the weight room to fix that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I fail to see how a quote from a spots blog ripping him for having no heart proves anything, esp. anything in Blatche's favor.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 5:41 PM

i swear as i typed the last letter in that thread, i just knew you were going to say something about that. One quote doesnt prove my point theoretically the statistics do. But we will see how this season goes. The point that i am trying to make clear is that certainly blatche has the physical tools to be a dominant player as the gentleman pointed out in the blog, his teammates know, we know, i mean its a given observation. But the frustrating part is the lack of heart, the jumpshooting, the inconsistent play, the fatigue its just ridiculous of how good/great he could be. If he used those elements and played like an animal instead of a ballet dancer he would be starting over Jamison for sure.

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Jasper. Blatche was a 2nd rd pick so how could he be a coach killer in that instance? If anything he might be a gm killer since Ernie is really putting his reputation on the line by banking this season on him and Mcgee growing up quickly and providing support off the bench. 2nd round picks are throwaway picks and don't usually pan out though there are exceptions. Can someone explain why you think Foye will start? I see Miller starting since if he can regain his hunger for playing he provides mismatches and the ability to pass and spread the floor much like Hedo did for Orlando last year.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

He was running around with no idea what he was doing. It's going to take more than some extra time in the weight room to fix that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 5:47 PM


true but thats the role of a rookie, thats not burdened with carrying a franchise. Your learning curve is different that a griffin or thabeet or whomever. besides he played his rookie season under an interim coach that never coached a pro team in his dreams.

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

than**

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I was thinking Miller would start as well.

And speaking of Thabeet, he's a year older than mcgee and certainly didnt appear court savvy over the summer league. And one of the espn guys actually questioned whether he even enjoyed the game of basketball judging from his effort level and demeanor.

Of course he outweigh javale by 30 pounds, and that counts for something!

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Can someone explain why you think Foye will start?Posted by: anacostia85

Arenas and Miller is a weak defensive pairing. I don't know who will be the starting SG but usually teams try to set a tone in the beginning of games. Miller could definitely see starter minutes, but I could see Foye starting games and defending the best guard on the floor. And Miller is probably a one year rental, so it would make sense to find out if Foye can mesh with Gilbert.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 20, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Blatche will be a very good player once he knows his role and get consistant minutes. Nobody knew what the hell they were doing last year. I will say 1 of Blatches problem was he tried to turn into a 7ft Jamison with all the soft stuff. He didn't play that way when he first came into the league. He looked alot like Jared because he knew that's how he was going to get his minutes. With the continued development of McGee he will realize he's going to have to change his game towards a more aggressive approach.

If I where to trade anyone it would be Jamison. He's not a 4 unless you play some gimmick D. The big is always having to help him out. He would be good as a 6th man but you're not going to get him to do that. Trade him and save the money. Blatche, McGee, Haywood and McGuire will hold down the 4/5 positions. McGuire has a 4 mentality. He looks lost at the 3.

I feel good about the Wiz. Not winning this year but their future is very good with Young, McGee, Blatche, Gil, McGuire, Foye. If Gil come back healthy watch out. Haywood would be a backup because you've seen the best of. Butler and Jamison have seen better days though I really like Butler. Bring on the season but lets get through football first.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 20, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

"true but thats the role of a rookie, thats not burdened with carrying a franchise."

That's nonsense. It's no one's "role" to be utterly clueless at their job.

"One quote doesnt prove my point theoretically the statistics do. "

A) There were no statistics in the post you quoted and then claimed proved your point and B) no they don't.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

"Of course he outweigh javale by 30 pounds, and that counts for something!"

Not really. Certainly not enough to make up for a lack of game (if, indeed, he lacks a game).

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

"Can someone explain why you think Foye will start?"

Don't necessarily think that he will, but I do think Miller is better suited to come off the bench. They've got multiple options at SG, but Miller is their best option at SF behind Butler. Also, they could really use a veteran scorer and floor leader to anchor the second unit. Miller is perfectly suited for that role.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Arenas and Miller is a weak defensive pairing.

Defense is not a high priority with this team or have you not noticed? Miller/Caron are versatile enough to handle the sg sf minutes and whatever problems they face on defense the opposing team wil have the same mismatch trying to stop them on offense so I don't see Foye starting. Unless Miller stinks it up this year I don't see this as a 1 year rental.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

'Not really. Certainly not enough to make up for a lack of game (if, indeed, he lacks a game).'

a big complaint with javale was that bigger players could back him down, and obviously he was rail thin last year. So yes, 30 pounds of muscle does make a big difference.

'That's nonsense. It's no one's "role" to be utterly clueless at their job.'

If mcgee was utterly clueless, it would be remiss to pin that solely on the ROOKIE playing for a team with the staff in flux. The team as whole played clueless for long stretches.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Kal they don't need Miller off the bench as either Miller or Butler can catch a breather while the other stays on the floor. They will need to utilize Miller to the maximum and they will need his size and skill on the floor as much as is possible.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Blatche versus Griffin stats in the Summer League. Just imagine if he wasn't out partying around the clock.

Andray Blatche
6’11’, 248
PPG 19.7
RPG 11
APG 3
EFF +22
Blake Griffin
6’10” 250
PPG 19.2
RPG 10.8
APG 3.2
EFF +18

Posted by: Izman | July 20, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

"a big complaint with javale was that bigger players could back him down, and obviously he was rail thin last year. So yes, 30 pounds of muscle does make a big difference."

Not if it's not coupled with skill and ability. Kwame Brown is built like a brick s&#thouse. He's still a scrub. Tayshaun Prince looks like an anorexic pipe cleaner, yet he defends the post against guys much heaver than him on a regular basis quite effectively.

"If mcgee was utterly clueless, it would be remiss to pin that solely on the ROOKIE playing for a team with the staff in flux."

I didn't pin anything on anybody. I simply pointed out that being clueless is not a player's role just because he's a rookie. No matter how clueless he is to start, his role is to learn what it is he's supposed to do. McGee showed little sign of that by season's end.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

I think a 9 man rotation is much better for a shoot 1st team.If every body is health I am not shure if Blache is going to be in a rotation constantly unless he is completely changed.AJ will continue to take heavy minutes, DM is his best replacement for rebound and defense.The 3 position is between CB,MM and Dm.The only opening for blache is minutes to cover when BH and JM are in foul travel.I also think DS will be a starter if healthy or his contract willmhave a great chance for buy out if his injury is not coreccted by surgery. The surgery has a 50% chance not to help him to be pain free leave alone to play ball.MM is the 6th man.JC will never see minutes unless some body is injured, as always CB will be out for about 20 games and when MM moved to 3 NY will have the chance to be the 6 man.foye will be the starter if DS is out.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 20, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and not that it necessarily matters, but just to be clear, this:

Not really. Certainly not enough to make up for a lack of game (if, indeed, he lacks a game).

Was actually in reference to Hasheem Thabeet, not Javale McGee.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Defense is not a high priority with this team or have you not noticed?

Not a high priority but they did resign DeShawn, so I don't think they've ever completely given up on defense.

Unless Miller stinks it up this year I don't see this as a 1 year rental.

There's no way they re-sign Haywood, Miller, Foye, McGuire, and pick up the options on Young,McGee and Crittenton, so who do think will be gone after this year? Without those guys they're already committed to $49mil for 2010/11.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 20, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

There's no way they re-sign Haywood, Miller, Foye, McGuire, and pick up the options on Young,McGee and Crittenton, so who do think will be gone after this year? Without those guys they're already committed to $49mil for 2010/11.

They are not going to resign Crit. That is why Foye is here. They are most likely hoping Blatche or McGee steps it up so they can let Haywood go as well. McGuire will resign on the cheap as will Foye so Miller will be back as long as he plays well. James and DeShawn will be off the books as well.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Oh Young will return as well.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Considering Javale was a 20yr old rookie, I considered his first campaign enough of a success as to warrant at least as many minutes as he got last season where he averaged 15 minutes I believe. If that means ABs minutes reduce, too bad for AB.

With Haywood finally playing like a grown ass man with attitude, I see a decision having to be made between Blatche and Mcgee. I believe they'll choose Javale.

That's my point on Mcgee.

That and I'd rather have him than Oden. Ha!

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

"You have to wonder, how much of McGee's showing was due to his experience so far in the NBA (in comparison to the other players he faced off against), and how much was due purely to his talent level?

In other words, if McGee opted to wait another year before declaring and came out with this current class, where would he stand among these rookies?

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 1:30 PM "

Showing?

Huh?

JaTravel dunked in those highlights.

He's probably been dunking for awhile now.

That's all he did last season for the first 1/4 of games until he disappeared.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

They are not going to resign Crit. That is why Foye is here. They are most likely hoping Blatche or McGee steps it up so they can let Haywood go as well. McGuire will resign on the cheap as will Foye so Miller will be back as long as he plays well. James and DeShawn will be off the books as well.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 7:50 PM

I agree that MJ and DS are prime to be gone next year. But there is no way that Foye is gonna be better than Crit.

JCrit is as good a find as McGee and we gonna be finding that out PDQ.

And Haywood won't be let go. You just don' let legit 7' centers go. Whew! For cryin out loud.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 21, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Geez, we haven't even started this season and who is going to be here the following year is being brought up? Give me a break!

As far as who starts at guard, I am pretty sure it will be Foye unless DS is fully recovered and back to playing his best. I somehow doubt that will be the case though. I wrote before in here that Foye will start and take the toughest defensive assignment away from GA (he will be our best on the ball defender). I think he will thrive with the open looks he will get as well. He had to work awfully hard for shots in MN.

As Kal stated, Miller is perfectly suited for the second unit and will probably see starters mins regardless. I can easily see Miller getting more mins off the bench than Foye will starting, but we'll see. I am just happy to see some options on the bench that don't included clueless yet talented youngsters.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 21, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse

"That very well may be the case, however he has now had 4 seasons to establish his minutes yet has failed to do so. It's now at the point where if someone else is more effective, they should get the minutes." - divi3

He's had 4 odd seasons. The first one he barely played as he was a 2nd round pick out of high school and got shot just before the season started. The next two seasons he played under Ediie Jordan, who with washington at least, was very prone to never playing young players, no matter what (except for when his job came into question and he played McGee). Heck, even Butler had to wait half a season or so before Jordan would finally start him. Then when Blatche did play, he was forced to play backup center, not power forward. And finally, after all that, he had a new temp coach who still tried to play his older vets into the ground.

Now, none of these are excuses, but I'd argue that along with his lack of strong intensity, they were a factor. So far this offseason, we've heard nothing but positive things out of the head coach when talking about Blatche. So Flip is clearly taking a different approach than anyone else has over the last 4 seasons. I'd like to see how that goes before we decide Blatche is never going to take the leap.

People like to mention J. O'Neal taking 4 seasons. He actually took 5 seasons after high school before he really started to shine. Portland gave up on him. He was stuck behind veterans. All it took was a different approach with him. Billups, who played in college still took 4-5 seasons to become consistent, bouncing around 5 teams in the process.

I'm not comparing Blatch as a player in skill or attitude with either of those two. I'm merely citing them as examples that a switch can be flipped in a player if he finds himself in the right situation. And for right now, Blatche is costing us $3 mil a year. Except for guys on their rookie contract, he is our cheapest player. He's also still our third youngest player. So he's not taking court time away from another player, and he's not eating into our salary cap. Even as a 3rd PF, his salary would be reasonable. There's no reason not to see what he can do over the next few seasons under the new 'regime.'

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 1:37 AM | Report abuse

This is SUMMER LEAGUE basketball. Your grandma could get 15 pts and 10 boards in SUMMER LEAGUE play!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 21, 2009 4:40 AM | Report abuse

I really like Foye especially paired with Arenas. They both can bring up the ball and they both can score. This is exactly the type of player we needed to pair with Arenas.

Instead of units, we might want to focus on PT.

GA, AJ, CB 40 min
MM, BH, RF 30 min
JM/AB, DM, NY/DS/JC 10 min

On the draft. I like the trade, beyond just getting rid of those contracts. Miller provides the 3 shot we lacked and as I said Foye is the perfect combo player to pair with Arenas. NY and DS switch off based on O or D needs. Curry needs the ball too much for our club and although we don't need to play Foye at point this year, his experience doing it last year will benefit us a great deal. The one move I didn't like this summer was throwing away the second round pick. I would have loved to have added a DeJuan Blair and his large body as a balance to what McGee and Blatche do.

Posted by: jaguar2490 | July 21, 2009 4:42 AM | Report abuse

I think that this Wizards team, when healthy, is deep enough (save for the need for a legit back up big man) and has enough coaching savvy to make problems for just about any NBA opponent next season. But to take advantage of that depth, I would think that no one on this team should be allowed to average 40+ minutes a game during regular season. Playoffs are different, because all teams shorten their rotations. The big three should be kept around 35 minutes max.

Posted by: khrabb | July 21, 2009 7:36 AM | Report abuse

That's nonsense. It's no one's "role" to be utterly clueless at their job.

"One quote doesnt prove my point theoretically the statistics do. "

A) There were no statistics in the post you quoted and then claimed proved your point and B) no they don't.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 6:55 PM

1) if you want the stats go look them up for yourself.
2) dont just argue for arguing sake
3) "no they dont" why because you say so?
4) i wouldnt say javale was utterly clueless at his job, but he was clueless. 1; because hes a rookie that was on a veteran team and not expected to carry the team, like maybe a kevin durant or greg oden(lucky for him they have aldridge and pryzbilla) 2; may i remind you that his "leader" and coach ed tapioca pudding was clueless at his job as well. how do you expect the student to know when the teacher is clueless?

Kal the way that you try to comment on everyones post like your the english teacher and your grading us is what we call "nonsense" get a hobby boy

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 21, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

The GM is not activily participating in improving the team.The Jazz are in a panic situation not to pay 11 million lexuary tax.What is the down fall if EG pull a triger in acuiring carlos Boozer with blache, mike james and Stevenson? The Jazz will like to try AB and would buy out stevenson's salary at the end of the season if he is found to be a non contributer.Washington will have a good season with a chance to be compitative in the east and would be in an excellent position to resign who ever they want or be one of the best teams to land any 2010 free agent.I think it is to be in a denail to expect a miracles improvment of blache.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 21, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

"In other words, if McGee opted to wait another year before declaring and came out with this current class, where would he stand among these rookies?Posted by: psps23"

Top ten. He and Jordan Hill would have been the only centers in the draft (and Hill's a PF). But he would have suffered some by playing at a smaller school with less TV exposure. And he probably wouldn't be as strong as he appears today following this offseason.

He'd still be raw, he'd still have trouble with positioning. But his draft status suffered when he decided to come out last year.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

"Young did average over 20 mpg. He just didn't start.Posted by: psps23"

I probably had my eyes closed when he was in there.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

kalorama: "Tayshaun Prince looks like an anorexic pipe cleaner, yet he defends the post against guys much heaver than him on a regular basis quite effectively."

The question being, how does he do it? I haven't seen that many Pistons games, but the impression I got was that he's careful not to let the big guys get him on their hip, and instead focuses on staying close and using his long arms and jumping ability to interfere with their shot.

Yes/No?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I think if we brought in Gooden or just played Mcguire at the 4 and let andray get splinters from riding the pine, then maybe he might commit to getting better.
---------------------

In the past, that just resulted in him complaining and giving up.

Posted by: crs-one | July 21, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"They are most likely hoping Blatche or McGee steps it up so they can let Haywood go as well. McGuire will resign on the cheap as will Foye so Miller will be back as long as he plays well. James and DeShawn will be off the books as well."

anacostia85

I think it is highly unlikely that the Wizards can afford to let Haywood walk with their rather pronounced lack of size and depth.

Just why would you expect Foye to resign "on the cheap"?

If Miller plays well, he will be a valuable free agent. It is too early to know whether he will wish to stay in Washington.

Regardless of aught else, the Wizards will almost certainly try to shed salary next season. With their "big three" locked in, the Wizards may be facing some difficult decisions at the end of the season.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 21, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

...I like DMac but he is no 4. He is just not big enough and should only play there in an emergency, not part of the regular rotation. With the addition of Miller and Foye, it will be tough for DMac to find minutes, but I think he will play himself into the regular roation, maybe even be the 2nd guy off the bench.

Posted by: oddjob1 | July 21, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

"And for right now, Blatche is costing us $3 mil a year. Except for guys on their rookie contract, he is our cheapest player. He's also still our third youngest player. So he's not taking court time away from another player, and he's not eating into our salary cap. Even as a 3rd PF, his salary would be reasonable. There's no reason not to see what he can do over the next few seasons under the new 'regime.'"


...except for the fact that the Wiz do not have a legit 2nd PF. This means AB must fill this role adequately or he will continue be a detriment to the team.


Posted by: oddjob1 | July 21, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Excited about McGeee. Cautiously optimistic about Blatche.

Posted by: lavar609 | July 21, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"1) if you want the stats go look them up for yourself."

I already know McGee's stats. The question is: do you? The nature of your comments suggest you don't and that you referenced them out of thin air to cover your ass after realizing that that your original point had absolutely no validity.

"2) dont just argue for arguing sake"

I'm arguing because you posted something that was simply and categorically untrue and claimed it was fact. I don't know why you're arguing (or why you're doing it so poorly).

3)"no they dont" why because you say so?"

No, because the stats (that you wrongly and falsely claim support your point) say so.

"Kal the way that you try to comment on everyones post like your the english teacher and your grading us is what we call "nonsense" get a hobby boy"

That sentence is missing two apostrophes and a period. And I'm tempted to say proving you wrong is a hobby, but at this rate it's becoming a full-time job (albeit a fairly easy one, granted).

And I'm not your boy, b$#@h.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

"...except for the fact that the Wiz do not have a legit 2nd PF. This means AB must fill this role adequately or he will continue be a detriment to the team." - oddjob1

I'm not specifically challenging you, but I'm curious who in the league you consider a 'legit 2nd PF?'

From what I see, few teams have legit veteran backup PFs that do better than Blatche overall. A lot of teams have specialists, I suppose. But even with them, they're costing twice as much as Blatche. Typically, I think you either get an overpriced veteran who gives you a year or two of good play, then becomes a salary detriment, or you get lucky and have a someone on their rookie contract play well, like Millsap, who then becomes too good to stay a backup. This of course, begs the question why two years in a row, we chose to not take anyone in the second round. You can't just hope a very affordable, but good enough to be a full-time backup, just lands in your lap.

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

"The question being, how does he do it? I haven't seen that many Pistons games, but the impression I got was that he's careful not to let the big guys get him on their hip, and instead focuses on staying close and using his long arms and jumping ability to interfere with their shot."

More or less. Despite his height, he's also good at getting into a low crouch and getting a forearm into the opponent's back as they try to back him into the paint.

Point being, he's a solid defender against bigger guys despite being at a weight/strength disadvantage because he's learned to get maximum use out of the advantages he does have (height, length). The notion that McGee would instantly become a better player if he had "30 more pounds of muscle" ignores the basic fact that it doesn't matter how many nice tools you have if you don't know how to use them. And right now McGee already has a number of tools that could make him a better ball player, but he hasn't (so far) shown that he has much idea what to do with them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

And I'm not your boy, b$#@h.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 10:50 AM

jasperhneyaolcom

Kal is my boy

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 21, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"McGuire will resign on the cheap as will Foye so Miller will be back as long as he plays well. "

Foye couldn't sign "on the cheap" even if he wanted to. He 's on a rookie contract and has a team option for next year, the amount of which is already set as part of his contract. I believe it's a little over $4 mill. McGuire will most likely go wherever he gets the best offer.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I say get rid of Blatche, McGee, and Nick. Trade them for Mitch Richmond and Rod Strickland.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 21, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

4 million is "cheap" thanks for the info. Haywood in his best year averaged 10 points and 7 rebs so I can see EG letting him walk. McGuire is no star either so if he stays or leaves it won't matter.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"I think it is highly unlikely that the Wizards can afford to let Haywood walk with their rather pronounced lack of size and depth."

Haywood's future in DC is most likely tied directly to the development of McGee. If, by season's end (or, possibly, the trade deadline) it looks like McGee is developing into legit starter material, I can easily see Haywood being moved in a trade at the deadline (possibly a swap of expiring deals) or being let go at the end to free up money to re-sign some of their other FAs. Unless they think they're on the doorstep of a title and Haywood is a key piece, doling out a big long-term deal to a 30-year-old journeyman C who doesn't excel or dominate in any phase when they think they've already got a younger, potentially better replacement on the hook for a lot less money is questionable financial sense.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Headline from Summer League.

McGeee Posterizes Blake and Dumps 31 On The Knicks.

Yeah it is Summer League. But, I always wondered why they have it, if it don't count for nothin'. Go figure.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 21, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

As for how McGee plays defense it seems this coaching staff is more intent upon teaching the young players the right way to do things instead of just throwing them to the wolves. It has been mentioned that we were one of the few teams running plays so that the young guys could have some structure instead of just run and gun playground ball. McGee or Blatche will be ready to take the starting center position by next year

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

"4 million is "cheap""

Not if signing him at that amount impedes their ability to keep their own or pursue other FAs it's not.Foye's option year salary is 2 or 3 times as much as that of any of the other Wiz kids who have options for next year.

Obviously who stays and who goes depends on how they perform during the season (and, to an extent, what deals, if any, they make to free up more cap room), but if push comes to shove, I can see them letting Foye go because his bigger option buy-in will cut too deep into their FA money pool.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

And Yeah I can see the salary issues the Wizards will have to address next season.

But, if the Wizards have to get rid of players or let them go just for salary reasons, then guess what.

BULLETSFAN78 will be the most correct blogger on this site. To get rid of some of the players that are mentioned here will be just plain cheap.

You cannot possibly start to put together a Team thats lets you run with the BIG DOGS and then because of salary, you have to dismantle it.

Hell, BulletsFan78 could go into business selling T-Shirts, The Wizards Are Cheap, I Told You So, BF78.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 21, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Utah is letting Boozer go for salary reasons so it is not just the Wizards who are looking to cut costs.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

It could be worse for us we could be the Knicks. That Lebron fantasy never had a chance to come true.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Since Butler came to DC, does anyone else have the sense that he plays better when Gilbert is out and worse with GA in the lineup?

Just a question I've pondered a couple of times.

Posted by: psdfx | July 21, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

"Utah is letting Boozer go for salary reasons so it is not just the Wizards who are looking to cut costs." - anacostia85

They're doing it specifically to match the contract for milsap, who they want long term more than boozer.

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

sega they are still cutting costs.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"There's no way they re-sign Haywood, Miller, Foye, McGuire, and pick up the options on Young, McGee and Crittenton, so who do think will be gone after this year? Without those guys they're already committed to $49mil for 2010/11."

Miller will need to take a pay cut. The market for "shooters" is not that high these days. Foye is a restricted FA, Wiz will try to retain him, but if other teams come with a ridiculous contract, then they will have to let him go. In that case, they will retain Crittenton. Otherwise, you are right, they may not. McGee they will keep, he is still young. NY's situation will hinge greatly on how he plays next season. As for Haywood, it will depend on his contract demand and McGee's play next season. McGuire will be an unrestricted FA, so it will depends on his value-to-cost ratio and if there are similar players on the market with a better ratio.

Of course, a lot will also depends on GM judging that whether the team is a true contender that justifying spending or not. So this coming season is the key.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 21, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone tell me why mike james have not picked up the option on his last year. I mean it's no way he can 6 mil on the open market(he have to know this). I think enie may be trying to dump mike james, another player, and probably a second round pick. Then pick up a post player and save some cash.

Posted by: dsquare | July 21, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

2; may i remind you that his "leader" and coach ed tapioca pudding was clueless at his job as well. how do you expect the student to know when the teacher is clueless?

Kal the way that you try to comment on everyones post like your the english teacher and your grading us is what we call "nonsense" get a hobby boy

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom
________

Well, the obvious response to this is that the rest of the team didn't look nearly as clueless. They may have been over matched talent wise with all the injuries, but they weren't clueless gazelles flailing around on the court like McGee and out of position on D and O. That he started the season in this fashion is of no particular surprise. That he looked the exact same way the last game of the season is a little concerning. As in, how high is his basketball IQ really? He showed it was very low in his rookie season. Let's hope it improves or else he is going to be someone's project for a long time and it's happened before!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 21, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Again, this season hasn't even started you and guys are discussing who will be on the team the following year? lol

I will say I doubt Haywood is going anywhere. He is far more valuable than his stats suggest and everyone knows it. Plus, this recession is going nowhere thx to Obamanomics so all will still do well, but I think the super bloated ridiculous contracts are stalled for the moment. Then I recall Sideshow Bob just got 50 million! Go figure!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 21, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Those who want McGee to bulk up may take satisfaction from his summer training:
http://hoopshype.com/javale_mcgee_summer.jpg
In one year, he's added more lean muscle to his frame.

I don't think Blatche has added as much bulk in such a short time. He could put more effort into it. He would benefit with more explosiveness from stronger legs and abdomen.

Posted by: rickgonz | July 21, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

sagaliba, I think they should all have to take paycuts, except for McGuire who's the cheapest player by far.

There is a certain amount that is held back by the league (depends how the league does overall, is then paid out at the end of the season I believe), but it is percentage based. OK for Arenas and Jamison, real bad for McGuire.

The CBA I don't think allows voluntary pay cuts or renegotiations (as is done in NFL).

Posted by: rickgonz | July 21, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I think it's possible that Utah is trying to do both. Cut costs and sign Millsap. Probably a smart move considering that Boozer seems to be a flash in the pan or a player that has a decent season only so often whether it's bc of injuries or otherwise.

It's why guys like Jamison are probably overvalued slightly. Bc he doesn't get injured and you know exactly what your going to get from him from season to season. Boozer, not so much!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 21, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Consistency is overvalued?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 21, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

and durability?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 21, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"I will say I doubt Haywood is going anywhere. He is far more valuable than his stats suggest and everyone knows it. "

To the extent that's been true so far it's been largely because he was the best option the team had (or had any real hope of having) at C. If McGee proves to be as good or better, then the situation changes drastically.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone tell me why mike james have not picked up the option on his last year.

Posted by: dsquare
------------------------------------------
He already did.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 21, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"sega they are still cutting costs.", - anacostia85

How much will they save by trading Boozer? Remember, you have to trade for a close to matching salary total. Only by including a trade exception can some money be saved, and even then, it's not going to come close to Boozer's salary.

They're trading Boozer because they're making a long-term commitment to Milsap. So they will lose Boozer after this season, and get nothing in return. Trading him now may gain them some assets. In fact, if they were truly trying to save money, they wouldn't trade him and have all his salary come off the books next summer.

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"ut, I always wondered why they have it, if it don't count for nothin'. "

So the teams can have a chance to evaluate their draft picks in a game setting. but unlike fans, they aren't basing their evaluations on YouTube highlights and box score stats.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

"They're trading Boozer because they're making a long-term commitment to Milsap. "

And they're making a long-term commitment to Millsap because (A) making a long-term commitment to Boozer would probably cost them almost twice as much and (B) because there's no guarantee that he'll want to make a long-term commitment when he becomes a FA next season, in which case if they didn't keep Millsap, they'd be left with nothing.

It's not all about money, but money certainly factors into it in a major way.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Hell, BulletsFan78 could go into business selling T-Shirts, The Wizards Are Cheap, I Told You So, BF78.

LarryInClintonMD.

Larry,

I don't have to wait till next year...look at what the Wizards have done this year?

Traded the #5 pick and sold the 2nd round pick so they wouldn't have to add any money to the Luxury Cap.

Now read this about an organization which wants to win a championship...

In an aggressive summer of spending, the Orlando Magic have agreed with Matt Barnes on a two-year, $3.2 million contract, a league source said Monday night.

Orlando is already over the cap?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 21, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Baring something unforeseen (e.g., Haywood has a very bad year, or got a big injury again), Haywood should be able to fetch 8-10M on the market. Judging from the past, Haywood doesn't seem to be greedy (he signed his last contract without testing the market or long negotiations), so I think the possibility that Haywood stays with the team is high unless the team decides to go into rebuild mode. In that case, the Big3 will be shopped around as well.

As for shooters (e.g., Miller), the market seems to be cool, and he is unlikely to fetch the same amount (close to 10M).

Posted by: sagaliba | July 21, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

"'I will say I doubt Haywood is going anywhere. He is far more valuable than his stats suggest and everyone knows it.'

To the extent that's been true so far it's been largely because he was the best option the team had (or had any real hope of having) at C. If McGee proves to be as good or better, then the situation changes drastically."

kalo_rama

To be sure, though even then the Wizards would need a competent alternative to McGee. Marcin Gortat's recent contract illustrates what such a player might cost.

Besides, your point hinges on a dramatic improvement in McGee's game in the coming season. A premise which I would rate as somewhat improbable at this point in time.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 21, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Haywood probably didn't test the market when he signed his last contract because there was no real market for him. He was an unproven late first round pick who hadn't done a single thing to distinguish himself in the NBA. The Wizards likely made him the best offer and he took it. It's a completely different situation now. This next contract could well be the last one he signs in the NBA. He'd be foolish not to maximize this opportunity, because he won't get another one like it. I don't see him leaving money on the table in order to do the Wiz any favors, esp. if a legit contender comes sniffing around for his services.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"There's no way they re-sign Haywood, Miller, Foye, McGuire, and pick up the options on Young, McGee and Crittenton, so who do think will be gone after this year? Without those guys they're already committed to $49mil for 2010/11."

Miller will need to take a pay cut. The market for "shooters" is not that high these days. Foye is a restricted FA, Wiz will try to retain him, but if other teams come with a ridiculous contract, then they will have to let him go. In that case, they will retain Crittenton. Otherwise, you are right, they may not. McGee they will keep, he is still young. NY's situation will hinge greatly on how he plays next season. As for Haywood, it will depend on his contract demand and McGee's play next season. McGuire will be an unrestricted FA, so it will depends on his value-to-cost ratio and if there are similar players on the market with a better ratio.

Of course, a lot will also depends on GM judging that whether the team is a true contender that justifying spending or not. So this coming season is the key.

Posted by: sagaliba


Obviously, the upcoming season will go a long way in determining which of these players the Wiz try to retain. I'd say going into the season, the order is McGee, Foye, Young, Haywood, McGuire, Miller, Crittenton.

McGee we can keep with the option and he'll still be cheap at around $1.6 mil. That's pretty much a no-brainer. Foye is currently probably the best of the bunch. If he continues to improve, and we can retain him without going insane, we will. Young we can also keep with the team option at $2.6 mil. That's still pretty affordable for a legit scorer off the bench. I think he he shows that he can be even just that consistently this season, he'll be retained.

Haywood's future depends as much on his play as it also does on McGee. If McGee looks to be ready to take over the starting spot after this season, we won't be paying Haywood starting center money. So him staying will depend on if he can land starter's money somewhere else. Miller is in the same boat. McGuire we could retain pretty cheaply still, but I think it depends on how much we have to spend on other guys. If we can't keep Miller, we'll probably keep McGuire. If we retain Miller, that could eat into the money left over for McGuire.

Crittenton is the odd man out. But, if we just pick up all our team options, we're looking at a salary of about $55.5 mil. That leaves about 20+ mil or so for Foye, Miller, Haywood, and McGuire. At least three of those guys should be retainable for a combined $20 mil.


Important to note is that Stevenson will be entering his final year at $4 mil and Butler at $10.5 mil. I think the teams thoughts on Butler's future will factor in a lot, and as a result, directly affect Miller and McGuire's contracts.

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Some foolish team would probably offer Haywood a contract similar to what Gortat got this year...I just hope it is not the Wiz. Sega the Jazz decided that Milsap at 4 years at 32 million is more palatable than what Boozer will cost. They could deal him for Haslem's expiring contract. This is a move to cut payroll if you have 2 guys who do the same thing why not take the cheaper option?

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

"To be sure, though even then the Wizards would need a competent alternative to McGee.Marcin Gortat's recent contract illustrates what such a player might cost."

No, it really doesn't. Dallas signed Gortat to an offer sheet to be the replacement for Dampier (who's in the last year of his deal) as their starter, not to be a backup to a young up-and-comer. His contract has no reflection on what they'd have to spend to find a backup for McGee if he were to supplant Haywood as the starter. (And Orlando matched the deal in order not to lose him for nothing. In all likelihood, they'll end up trading Gortat for other assets.)

"Besides, your point hinges on a dramatic improvement in McGee's game in the coming season. A premise which I would rate as somewhat improbable at this point in time."

At "this point in time" the season hasn't even started, so this point in time isn't really relevant. I said IF McGee proves to be as good or better. Not a prediction, a supposition, one that can only be proven or disproved with time.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"It's not all about money, but money certainly factors into it in a major way." - kalo_rama

Money factors into any NBA decision, but anacostia85 was arguing that was the main reason for the Jazz and Boozer. And in this case, it's not. In fact, I'd argue that the ability for Milsap to stay healthy, being 4 years younger, playing better defense, and not being able to bolt after this season for another team are all more important factors to the Jazz.

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

"Money factors into any NBA decision, but anacostia85 was arguing that was the main reason for the Jazz and Boozer. And in this case, it's not."

Yes, it is. Because if both players cost the same money to keep, odds are they'd opt for the more proven Boozer. But the fact is that keeping Boozer will cost twice as much as keeping Millsap. Are there other considerations at play? Yes. But all of those other considerations fall in line behind that one.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

This is a move to cut payroll if you have 2 guys who do the same thing why not take the cheaper option?

That makes sense to me...but if the Wizards do that...it's because we have a cheap owner.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 21, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

"Sega the Jazz decided that Milsap at 4 years at 32 million is more palatable than what Boozer will cost. They could deal him for Haslem's expiring contract. This is a move to cut payroll if you have 2 guys who do the same thing why not take the cheaper option?" - anacostia85

If they get Hasleem and Miami's exception, then yes, the specific trade they made was to save them money, but that was not the impetus for looking to trade Boozer.

Not resigning guys in order to save money is purely a money thing. Trading away an older, more fragile, worse defender at a position where you have another viable starter is not a 'cost-cutting move.' It's removing redundancy. If Boozer was clearly better for the team, and wanted to stay with the team, they'd let Milsap go and just pay him. But they like Milsap better.

Letting someone 'go for salary reasons' implies that the move is solely made only to save money, not based on performance or team building, or finder a better person to fill that role.

Posted by: segastyle | July 21, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Haywood probably didn't test the market when he signed his last contract because there was no real market for him. He was an unproven late first round pick who hadn't done a single thing to distinguish himself in the NBA.

Posted by: kalo_rama
------------------------------------------

Forgot about Etan Thomas already? What you said about Haywood applies to ET as well, who had "tested" the market and came away with a better deal.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 21, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"No, it really doesn't. Dallas signed Gortat to an offer sheet to be the replacement for Dampier (who's in the last year of his deal) as their starter, not to be a backup to a young up-and-comer. His contract has no reflection on what they'd have to spend to find a backup for McGee if he were to supplant Haywood as the starter. (And Orlando matched the deal in order not to lose him for nothing. In all likelihood, they'll end up trading Gortat for other assets.)"

No matter the facts behind Gortat's contract it does in fact set a precedent. Furthermore, if the deal was truly out of line, Orlando wouldn't have matched because then they would be stuck with the player and an immovable contract. As a final note, in Orlando Gortat is the backup to a proven star not a possible one year wonder. No matter how well McGee shows in the coming season, the Wizards would most likely try to protect themselves against his proving to be a flash in the pan.

"At "this point in time" the season hasn't even started, so this point in time isn't really relevant. I said IF McGee proves to be as good or better. Not a prediction, a supposition, one that can only be proven or disproved with time."

I am aware that you said "if". My aim was to point out the tenuousness of that proposition.

Incidentally, without trying to parse hypotheticals endlessly, I would submit that given that we live in the present and cannot flawlessly divine the future, what we know and can extrapolate from "this point in time" is all that is relevant.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 21, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"Incidentally, without trying to parse hypotheticals endlessly, I would submit that given that we live in the present and cannot flawlessly divine the future, what we know and can extrapolate from "this point in time" is all that is relevant.Posted by: thomas_kecskes"

Wow. Could you say that in English?

Just kiddin'.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I'm still waiting for Ernie's press conference he told us about after the draft or did I miss it?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 21, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Blatche averaged almost exactly what the heralded Blake Griffin did in summer. Points,asssts and rebounds were almost identical. And Blatche is only slightly older then Griffin.

Yet, while ESPN and others are heralding Griffin as the league's next great player, people on this site consistantly trash Blatche day after day.

A month ago it's "why isn't the lazy bleep going to summer league". Puts up a good game in his first game in summer league and it's, "he's a one game flash in the pan". Puts up numbers equal to Griffin and, "he's had four years and he just keeps tempting us with his talent, but he's still a lazy, skirt chasing, bum!".

All the while it's pretty clear the people that did most of the commenting hadn't seen a single game. If you're a basketball junkie that package really wasn't that expensive.

My quess is that in a couple of weeks most of the games will start to be replayed and if you have a DVR or on demand system you'll be able to eventually catch them all.

The big thing I saw was players that were there with a purpose. The Wiz team was organized and well coached. The core guys that will be on this year's roster, McGee, Blatche, McGuire, Young, and Crittenton all seemed to have tasks they were there to work on.

Young was really working at off the ball skills, setting guys up & running them off screens, and catching and shooting.

Critt looked good running the team and defending the point. The guy could be a real asset as a off the bench defensive point. He's a jump shot away from being a real player in this league.

There was a difference of night and day when he sat out.

I hear McGuire's working on a spot up three ball. But, didn't see it all in summer league. Summer league doesn't give a guy like McGuire much of a chance to show he'll do the dirty work every team needs.

Blatche and McGee, both showed some real flashes this summer. McGee went and just blew up those last two games. Two games don't mean he's ready to push Brendan out the door.

But, right now I think the Wiz feel pretty good with these two coming off the bench at the 4 & 5.

Ernie's still got work to do, finding a taker for James's expiring deal while getting a big is the big to do on the list.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 21, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

The last thing the Wiz need is for McGuire to be shooting spot up threes. LOL

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

The last thing the Wiz need is for McGuire to be shooting spot up threes. LOL

Actually...it's about the only difference between him and Tervor Ariza...and his shot was HORRIBLE. If McGuire can become just adequate from 15 feet and out...he'll be that much better.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 21, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

we don't need McGuire to score we need him to play defense and get the loose balls we have people to play the ariza role already

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

>>>I think the possibility that Haywood stays with the team is high unless the team decides to go into rebuild mode. In that case, the Big3 will be shopped around as well.

Sagaliba, I don't think there's that much connection between Brendan's fate and the Big 3. The team could easily decide to move Haywood without deciding to break up the team and rebuild. It all turns on McGee's (or Blatche's) development this year.

>>>I don't see him leaving money on the table in order to do the Wiz any favors, esp. if a legit contender comes sniffing around for his services.

I wonder though, Kal, how much of BTH's decision would come down strictly to dollars and cents, and again that might turn on McGee's (or Blatche's) development, as you've rightly pointed out above. It hasn't seemed that Brendan likes to be the second fiddle at the 5. He might take a few less dollars to be a bigger part of the mix in D.C. for a couple more years rather than going immediately into a backup role for another team.

Posted by: Prazak | July 21, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"No matter the facts behind Gortat's contract it does in fact set a precedent."

But not one that would apply to the Wizards needing to find an affordable backup for McGee if he becomes the starter. Again, the Mavs gave Gortat an offer based on their need for a starting C going forwards. That has no precedent whatsoever on the Wizards possible need for a second stringer. Apples and oranges.

"what we know and can extrapolate from "this point in time" is all that is relevant"

Except that (A) you cannot, with any meaningful degree of certainty, extrapolate that McGee will not improve over the course of the season and (B) you're extrapolation of that isn't actually based on anything that's happening at "this point in time" because he's not doing anything at "this point in time" that you can extrapolate from. It can only have been based on what happened last season. But last season is over and many of the elements that contributed to what happened last season are no longer applicable (new coaching staff, new players, new system).

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Blatche averaged almost exactly what the heralded Blake Griffin did in summer. Points,asssts and rebounds were almost identical. And Blatche is only slightly older then Griffin.

Yet, while ESPN and others are heralding Griffin as the league's next great player, people on this site consistantly trash Blatche day after day.

Blatche is 2 1/2 years older than Griffin and all you have to do is look at their bodies to see which is the lazy one. Guys don't develop a work ethic going into their fifth season unless they are looking at their next contract. Blatche is an underachieving big man and should remain a career backup. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the Wizards don't increase his salary in two years. Almost every team has those kind of guys.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 21, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"He might take a few less dollars to be a bigger part of the mix in D.C. for a couple more years rather than going immediately into a backup role for another team."

As far as money, I was talking strictly in response to the suggestion that he might take less money to stay in D.C. versus going somewhere else for more money and a parallel role. I doubt he'd even consider signing on (here or anywhere else) to be a backup. That's part of what I was talking about regarding McGee's development being the critical factor.

If it turns out that McGee doesn't have the goods and looks like career backup material, then it probably becomes a moot issue. In that instance, the Wizards probably can't afford to lose him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I quess Bruce Bowen had no reason to learn a three either since he was a defensive guy. That 3 ball kept him in the league for years.

Being able to stand on the perimeter on the weakside of a play, and knockdown an open three, is a prime asset for a guy that's not a great offensive talent.

You dodn't need those guys to score, just be a threat to score. If they can hit about one out of three open 3 balls, somebody's got to account for them.

If McGuire doesn't learn to hit a wide open jumper there's no reason for guys like James to even guard him, then they can start to play in the passing lanes and rest on defense. Best way to defend James is to make him work at the other end.

It's all about spacing, McGuire won't be asked to play on the perimeter a lot, but if he's going to be a three, it's a skill he's got to work on. If he gets where he can bang down a couple of long balls in a game he'll find a real role on this squad.

Watching the young guys in summer league is very encouraging. The fact that Gil got on the phone and told Blatche he needed to go was a big step forward. It shows a maturity by Gil and the young guys williness to follow.
GM


Posted by: flohrtv | July 21, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you in theory, djnnnou. The problem in this particular case, however, is one of expectations.

For years the team, the players, the coaches, and the fans have been waiting for Blatche to "get it" and live up to his potential. If he fails to do so, I really think they have to move him simply because the atmosphere around him will have become too toxic. It won't be as bad as the Juwan Howard backlash (because the money's nowhere near the same) or Kwame (because the draft position was lower and the criticisms from the organization weren't as loudly public) but I think the psychological effect would similarly erode his already shaky confidence and further detract from his effort and results.

If that happens, however, a good part of the blame will lay with Grunfeld (just as a good part of the blame for what happened with Howard and Kwame lay with Nash, Unseld, and M.Jordan). His failure during the early years to round out the roster with young talent with any real potential resulted in an undue amount of expectations being heaped on the one guy he did manage to find who seemed to fit the bill. They put a lot of weight on a late second rounder coming straight from H.S. and it was clearly more than he could (should) have carried.

All that being said, however, I still don't think that excuses him being a lazy slacker who seems perfectly willing to coast through his career.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"What you said about Haywood applies to ET as well . . ."

Nope.

Thomas was a lottery pick, not a late first rounder. He was a lottery pick because teams believed that he had more potential/upside/whatever coming out of college than Haywood. Haywood was a late first rounder because there were concerns about his attitude, toughness and work ethic.

The fact that he missed most of his first couple seasons due to injury probably ended up helping Thomas because when FA time came, teams were still forced to evaluate him largely on his potential and hopes that he'd fulfill (a vain hope, as it turned out). Conversely, Haywood spent his first couple of seasons living down to the same rep that resulted in him falling in the draft and contributed to a lack of a big FA market for his services.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying Blatche is going to be a Griffin, I'm not one of those guys that constantly spout he's the next Garnett after one or two games.

But, he did go to Vegas and play fairly consistant ball in summer league, and he should be able to. Flip had each of these young guys that will be on the roster working on specific skills.

Watching Young, it's clear that they've been working on modifiing and improving his game. Critt's been really working at running the team and setting the tone on D.

In a limited minute role, I can really see him turning up the D.

But the point about Blatche is that he came to summer league and he's been working all summer according to all reports.

If you remember, Jamison's timetable from a couple of years ago, this is the year Jamison said Blatche should come to camp expecting to start. He seems to be putting the summer work in like a guy that wants to step up.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 21, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Bowen and McGuire are not the same type of player. Bowen is 6'7 200 obviously a perimeter player and defender so I can see him developing a outside shot. McGuire is 6'9 230 so he should be working on his inside game especially with the ball handling skills he has. The last thing we need are more big men who gravitate to the 3 point line.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

There's nothing wrong with a player having the long-ball in his arsenal, as long as it's not his only weapon. Whatever he was in college, McGuire's primary position in the NBA is at SF. And given his ballhandling and athleticism, becoming a credible jumpshooter and forcing defenders to come out and play him should open up plenty of driving lanes for McGuire. Conversely, he's not really big enough that he'll ever really become anything more than an incidental low post player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

HEAD COACH
Flip Saunders (College - Minnesota)


ASSISTANT COACHES
Randy Wittman (College - Indiana)
Don Zierden (College - Mount Senario)
Sam Cassell
Wes Unseld Jr. (College - Johns Hopkins)

Wes Unseld Jr? You've got to be kidding me?

Bring in Bill Laimbeer to coach the big guys!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 21, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Paying lip service is obviously easy to do, but I have high hopes that Blatche's newfound attitude is legit--and that a new coaching staff that takes player development and team cohesion more seriously will result in a breakout year for the kid. The fact that he agreed to play summer league and appears to be motivated and happy for the first time since he's been in the league bodes well.

As for the detractors that keep hammering him for his perceived attitude problems: if the switch does flip for Blatche this year, I look forward to some public crow-eatin'.

Honestly, i get the impression that some people on this board actively hope Blatche will fail, if only because his success would expose the shortcomings of the previous coaching staff.

"At this point in time" what we have to go on is that Blatche and McGee were able to dominate some summer league games. Doesn't mean much--but it's a better sign than if they hadn't! After a 19-win season, I'll take all the positive signs I can get. Coach 'em up Flip! Go Wiz.

Posted by: Plix | July 21, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

He is big enough at 6'9 to put muscle on and be a banger inside. As i said this team has enough big men who don't want to shoot in the paint as it is.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

McGuire could be a anthony mason type player. He was a good ball handler who used it to get where he wanted inside and score WITHOUT a 3 point shot.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

"Honestly, i get the impression that some people on this board actively hope Blatche will fail, if only because his success would expose the shortcomings of the previous coaching staff."

Well, sure they do. That's the nature of fandom -- you have your favorites and you have your anti-favorites. It involves feelings about Abe and Ernie and the two Eds and the demise of the old Bullets and why didn't they hang on to Oly Pecherov, he would have been great... and so on and so forth. It's emotional, not rational. After a while, a longstanding fan develops an investment in being right, especially if he took a strong position about this or that issue. He'd almost rather see the team fail if it validated his favored belief. It's more important to be right than to be successful.

If you get enough of these types together, you have the City of Philadelphia.

Or the Republican Party. No wait, that was a cheap shot.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 7:31 PM | Report abuse

He is big enough at 6'9 to put muscle on and be a banger inside. As i said this team has enough big men who don't want to shoot in the paint as it is.Posted by: anacostia85"

I suppose, but McGuire is one of those players who's listed as bigger than he is. On combine day, he was 6'8.25" in shoes, and 220, with a 6'10.5" wingspan, a standing reach of 8'8", and only 4.7% body fat. A physical comparison might be Dante Cunningham of Villanova, who went in the second round to Portland (but is a far better scorer).

Bowen's been in the league too long (he's 38) for anybody to have accurate measurements, but he's closer to 6'5" than 6'7".

IMO it's best to let guys like McGuire be situational players with roles defined by the matchup, instead of trying to turn them into something the team needs more at the moment.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I just wanted to start trouble and make everyone here who liked DeJuan Blair and were mad at the Wiz for not taking him read this:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=nba_com-rookie.rankings.summer-20090721&prov=nba_com&type=lgns

Go Wiz!

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 21, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

nice post samson I see McGuire having a easier time being anthony mason than being bruce bowen

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

"He was a good ball handler who used it to get where he wanted inside and score WITHOUT a 3 point shot."

Mason was also built like a tank. McGuire is nowhere near as big or strong as Mason.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

well unlike Bowen he can handle the ball he does not have to be as powerful as Mason to emulate his game but it would help if he can make a midrange shot or develop a post move

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"But not one that would apply to the Wizards needing to find an affordable backup for McGee if he becomes the starter. Again, the Mavs gave Gortat an offer based on their need for a starting C going forwards. That has no precedent whatsoever on the Wizards possible need for a second stringer. Apples and oranges."

Not quite. Regardless of the relative merits of Gortat's contract, it is, in fact, a defining deal for centers in today's marketplace. That the offer was originally made by the Mavericks for Gortat as a starting center lost relevance once Orlando matched.

"Except that (A) you cannot, with any meaningful degree of certainty, extrapolate that McGee will not improve over the course of the season and (B) you're extrapolation of that isn't actually based on anything that's happening at "this point in time" because he's not doing anything at "this point in time" that you can extrapolate from. It can only have been based on what happened last season. But last season is over and many of the elements that contributed to what happened last season are no longer applicable (new coaching staff, new players, new system)."

I don't recall stating that McGee will not improve this season and I don't recall talking about what is "happening" at this exact moment in time. What I did state is that we can only make projections from what is known today. At any rate, while I honestly hope that McGee takes a giant step forward and becomes a credible starting center this season, I would rate such an emergence as being against the odds.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 21, 2009 8:23 PM | Report abuse

and Mason was 6'7 I know he was a strong guy but McGuire can do the same thing and it is more realistic than chucking up 3 pointers

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

"and Mason was 6'7 I know he was a strong guy but McGuire can do the same thing and it is more realistic than chucking up 3 pointers"

McGuire can't do the same thing because he doesn't have Mason's body or physical strength. McGuire is not an offensive power player in the NBA. And he's certainly not a go-to post up guy. Offensively his offense will come off garbage and open shots created by double teams on the real offensive threats, which is why a reliable jump shot would be a valuable weapon for him. Teams are going to leave him open out on the floor. He needs to be able to hit those shots to make himself a threat.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't have to wait till next year...look at what the Wizards have done this year?

Traded the #5 pick and sold the 2nd round pick so they wouldn't have to add any money to the Luxury Cap.

Now read this about an organization which wants to win a championship...

In an aggressive summer of spending, the Orlando Magic have agreed with Matt Barnes on a two-year, $3.2 million contract, a league source said Monday night.

Orlando is already over the cap?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 21, 2009 1:49 PM

Someone pointed out that, if Foye was in this year's draft, he may very well have been a lottery pick, perhaps a standout among all the other guards in this draft.

Thus, taking Foye (who has done more to prove that he's not a bust than anyone in the draft) and to get Miller on top of that would be a good use of a draft pick.

Especially considering the mess Rubio (who already didn't want to play in DC) is causing right now

Posted by: crs-one | July 21, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

"Regardless of the relative merits of Gortat's contract, it is, in fact, a defining deal for centers in today's marketplace."

No, it's not. It's not like Gortat was the first C to ever sign an NBA deal. How much a C (or any other player) gets paid will be determined by who the player is, how highly he's rated/valued, how badly the team signing him wants him, how much competition there is for hi services, and so on. The idea that Gortat has set some kind of baseline standard for every C contract that will come after him is completely groundless. Again, he was sgined to a starting caliber deal by Dallas. I'm talking about the Wiz having to acquire a backup C. THe standard is by no means the same.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

"Someone pointed out that, if Foye was in this year's draft, he may very well have been a lottery pick"

Foye was a lottery pick.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

T Prince for Detroit is not built like Mason either but he can also get here he wants to on the floor. He can be a very good player but he is asked to do so much he may have a hard problem developing.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

That should read:

Again, he was signed . . .

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

"I just wanted to start trouble and make everyone here who liked DeJuan Blair and were mad at the Wiz for not taking him read this:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=nba_com-rookie.rankings.summer-20090721&prov=nba_com&type=lgns
- RayPosted by: rmcazz"

No it's all in good fun but you wonder if the guys who do those yahoo rankings were perhaps six sheets to the wind by the time they sat down at the computer. They report that Hasheem Thabeet is probably not going to contribute offensively? There's a bulletin for ya. They assert that Stephon Curry's steals 'overshadow' his 32% FG shooting? I don't think so, Lucy.

But you're right that no matter how Blair does, we'll probably be treated to a game by game report on his progress from certain interested parties on this blog. "Recurring Resentments", you might call them.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 21, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

McGuire passes the eye test and then some for an NBA swingman, possessing great size, terrific length, and a very nice frame. He is silky smooth on top of that, showing outstanding fluidity, excellent body control and the type of explosiveness needed to get into the lane and hang in the air for some incredibly creative finishes. He is used at the power forward position mostly for Fresno State, but will at times swing over to point guard for a stretch or just explode off the floor for a rebound and go coast to coast himself. His ball-handling skills are extremely impressive, being capable of shaking guys off the dribble going left or right, and creating his own shot to pull up smoothly from mid-range or quickly make his way to the hoop. On first and second glance, he appears to be a pretty smart player who plays within his team’s offense unselfishly and would rather not force the issue, even if his decision making skills aren’t always the best. He’s a nice passer as his 3.1 assists per game average would indicate, and will show some nice creativity at times by threading the needle with tough passes.

In terms of weaknesses, McGuire has quite a few wrinkles to his game he’ll need to iron out. For one, he’s not a great finisher around the basket, lacking a bit of strength and craft in terms of using the glass in traffic. His perimeter jumper shows promise at times, but is not consistent in the least bit, as he does not have very good balance or footwork, and therefore does not have a steady release point. Like many smooth swingmen who can get their shot off virtually at any time, he has a tendency at times to settle from the perimeter for off-balance shots when he’d be much better off taking the ball strong to the hoop. He shows great toughness on the defensive end as his shot-blocking and rebounding numbers would indicate, but this toughness and hunger does not quite translate over to the offensive end the way you might hope.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Someone pointed out that, if Foye was in this year's draft, he may very well have been a lottery pick, perhaps a standout among all the other guards in this draft.

I can't think of any 25yr old guys going in the lottery.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 21, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

"T Prince for Detroit is not built like Mason either but he can also get here he wants to on the floor. "

But he doesn't do it by physically overpowering people, which is what you're suggesting McGuire do by emulating Mason. Prince uses the advantage of his length and quickness to beat raw power, which is exactly what McGuire has done (except substitute athleticism for length) and should continue to do.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

I don't expect him to overpower people but he does have to put on some muscle as Jordan and Pippen did to be able to post up at times.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

and when i say emulate Mason i mean his game which consisted of a midrange jumper nice passing skills which he already has and some low post moves which he needs to work on. Sorry I was not clear on what I meant.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

"I don't expect him to overpower people"

Then why did you say this:

"He is big enough at 6'9 to put muscle on and be a banger inside. "

Because that's what bangers do. They physically overpower their opponents to get where they want to go.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

BTW, the guy you so clearly want McGuire to emulate, Anthony Mason . . . was a banger who physically overpowered people.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Interesting to hear of thabeet being "disinterested and overmatched" during his poor summer league outing.

Makes talk of 'javale the top5 pick if he'd waited a year' seem reasonable.

Thank God we didn't end up with Ricky Menudo. If that kid ever shows up, he isn't going to be anywhere near the player several of the guards in his own draft class develop into.

Posted by: divi3 | July 21, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

People who are slagging off Haywood and saying they shouldn't resign him when his contract is up are delusional. The primary reason that the Wizards sucked so badly last season wasn't that Arenas was out; it was that Haywood was out. Haywood is one of the most underrated defensive players in the league - and frankly, the only Wizards player who actually commits to playing defense, and does it well. Why were so many teams able to kill the Wizards from the 3-point line? Because every Wizards player had to back up, to get ready for a drive, because they knew that there would be *no help defense whatsoever*. The story of the 08-09 season - and an ugly@ss story it was.

Another point is that Haywood is one of the only centers in the league who has proven to be effective against the likes of Shaq, Dwight Howard, etc. He can't stop them, but he can disrupt them in ways that few players in this league can do. If a team has any hope of a championship at this stage, that is something that they have to do.

Posted by: satchmore | July 21, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

I think I cleared up what I meant about McGuire if you don't choose to accept it that is on you not me. I posted a draft preview on McGuire above that I thought was pretty good.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 21, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

It's been said before, but I think other aspects of Haywood's game that were sorely missed last year were his brain and his mouth. When he's on the floor he always seems pretty vocal, directing traffic on D and helping guys keep on top of their assignments. Especially for the young guys, I think his chatter can be a huge help.

Posted by: Plix | July 21, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Haywood is an integral part of the teams success, and he isnt going anywhere. We waited years for the big man to finally develop (as often happens with bigs) and now that he finally has- we gonna keep him.

Haywood is rarely ever on the floor with a player bigger, stronger, more athletic than himself. That's why his 'Brenda' play for years was so frustrating. But it clicked for him, and it was worth the wait.

Posted by: divi3 | July 21, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

BTH is critical to the future success of Les BouleS. I think a lot of teams would be interested in acquiring him.

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if he left w/o compensation for Les BouleS. It's a tradition here.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 21, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

"Someone pointed out that, if Foye was in this year's draft, he may very well have been a lottery pick"

Foye was a lottery pick.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 21, 2009 8:37 PM

that he was. I didn't look it up because I didn't want to get wrapped up with saying what position he would have been at when it wouldn't make a major difference on the actual point.

----------------
I can't think of any 25yr old guys going in the lottery.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 21, 2009 8:40 PM

I thought we would be able to take for granted that I wasn't actually suggesting Foye at 25yrs old, but rather Foye as a draftee.

Posted by: crs-one | July 21, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

"I posted a draft preview on McGuire above that I thought was pretty good."

It was great for me in that it nicely underscored my point that he'd be more effective using his quickness and athleticism to beat bigger slower players by putting it on the floor and going to the basket, an exercise that would be greatly helped if defenders thought he posed an actual threat when he up faked them on the jumpshot. Unfortunately for you, there's not one word in there that supports your position that he'd be better off as an inside banger.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 22, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

"and when i say emulate Mason i mean his game which consisted of a midrange jumper nice passing skills which he already has and some low post moves which he needs to work on."

Except that wasn't Mason's game. He did have a nice midrange jumper, but the core of his game was predicated on using his massive body as a weapon to batter defenders under the basket, draw double-teams and use his passing skills to kick the ball out to shooters. McGuire does not posses the physical attributes to emulate that.

Your phobia about McGuire developing a long range shot is irrational. Just because he can shoot the ball from distance doesn't mean he's going to start chucking it on every possession. It's just another weapon in the arsenal.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 22, 2009 12:27 AM | Report abuse

"I thought we would be able to take for granted that I wasn't actually suggesting Foye at 25yrs old, but rather Foye as a draftee.Posted by: crs-one"

Take something for granted? On this blog? I don't think so.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 22, 2009 6:29 AM | Report abuse

Haywood was not the main reason Washington sucked last year. To imply that is to say that Haywood is the best player on the team when noone on the team would say that. Make no mistake about it, the best player on the team is Arenas. That does not mean that his absence last year wasn't a major factor, but it certainly wasn't the main factor. Teams for years have made "personal team" 3pt shooting records in a game for years and Haywood was on the court then. This was a problem before last year. Haywood is what he is, a good center on a cap-friendly contract. Does he deserve a raise, yes. Is he keeper, yes. JaVale is nowhere near ready.

Also, and it doesn't mean anything much, but NBADRAFT rated Foye a 97 in the 2006 draft, the same as Rubio. No other guard in this years draft was rated higher than 94. So yes, he probably would have been a top 5 pick in this draft.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 22, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Dominic should be setting picks and rolling towards the basket. Moving towards the basket allows him to utilize one of his best skills- rebounding.

To become a bigger offensive threat, he should practice receiving a pass after the pick and improve his finishing skills at the rim. For starters, I wish he would dunk harder. On most of Dominic's dunks, he just lets his overall body momentum bring the ball to the basket. He doesn't slam it home hard, so he's blockable. Unlike Dominic, the elite finishers in the NBA throw the ball forward and down using their arm and shoulder muscles. Trying to block a dunk by one of those guys comes with the risk of broken fingers, like Javale did to Brendan last fall before the season started. Dominic, on the other hand, goes to the rim soft. When he dunks, it's often like a guy who can just barely manage to get up high enough. That kind of soft finish was probably the higher percentage play in high school and even most nights in college, but in the NBA, he needs to throw it down hard.

Posted by: yop32 | July 22, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

So....what I'm getting is McGuire needs to dunk harder and not develop a jumper to be successful?

Anyone who thinks McGuire is ever going to be a banger needs to be medicated.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 22, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

In today's NBA almost any three needs to be able to pull his guy away from the basket with the threat of a three ball. That wasn't the game in the 90's, but that's what it is today.

If a guy's standing on the perimeter and his defender knows he'll NEVER shoot, he'll shade at least two or three steps toward the lane, so he can help defend on the drive.

That's the reason Butler worked so hard to add three ball range to his arsenal. For McGuire, adding a three point shot will expand his offensive potential.

Not that anyone is expecting a Mike Miller. But when a player catches the ball on the perimeter and fakes the shot, it often creates an easy driving lane.

McGuire is a smart enough passer to really take advantage of those opportunities. No three point threat, his man comes out in and gets in a defensive stance, or he plays off of him and plays the passing lanes.

It's all about floor spacing, play two or three guys on the floor at the same time that can't shoot further then 10-15 feet and the lane will get packed.

Like I said to start this whole debate, I've heard that the new coaching has really been working on a spot up three pointer with him. He didn't attempt to show it at summer league, so it sounds like he's not ready to use it yet.

But it's a wrinkle that he should add to his game. Was that draft measurement with shoes? I'd quess him to be closer to 6'7" myself, he's not a whole lot taller then Young.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 22, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Please people do you really think the Wizards success depends on McGuire, McGee, or, Blatche? Everyone knows from last year that Gil, AJ, CB and BTH (if healthy) are going to get big minutes and since they made the trade for Miller and Foye, you know Flip is going to play them to make people believe the trade wasn’t just about getting rid of their first pick.

First and foremost Gil needs to be healthy and just as important he needs to have learned (hopefully by watching Kobe while hurt) how to play the game the right way. Play some "D" and get your teammates involved first before worrying about his stats.

Second BTH need to be healthy and motivated the big guy needs to bang someone and quit playing soft. They already have a power forward (AJ) who plays that way. CB has to play SF and Foye better be a good defender at the 2 spot. Miller needs to win the 6th man award and the other guys are there just to play some minutes during trash time.

Third Flip needs to be the second coming of Phil Jackson. He needs to be a master of getting the ego’s (the players on this team have) under control so he can convince them that winning is more important than individual stats.

Speaking of coaching, they need to get a big man coach like Bill Laimbeer, what has Wes Unseld Jr. done for the big guys on this team? NOTHING.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

When you get to the playoffs, you better have waves of big men. That's why McGee, Blatche and McGuire(he can play a little 4 on this current roster)are so important.

You're right, Gil's return to health and the core you mentioned is the key, but if this is to be a deep,versitile roster, the five youngsters that went to summer league all have to step up.

Their stepping up will be the difference between a 42-45 win/1st rd exit team, and a team that could do some damage in the playoffs.

Still think Ernie's fishing for a veteran big via a trade.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 22, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Damn - can't believe I am saying this, but I agreee with both Kal and BF78's recent comments:

McGuire is a role player that can come off the bench with some energy...that's it; that's all he will be or should be. It's an important job and he should be constantly working on his skills, but seriously, he isn't going to be the defining player in more than 1 or 2 games, and that's only going to happen if he can make a key defensive stop while giving CB a break in the fourth.

Yes - the Wiz need a Big man coach...McGee can and should be a dominant NBA Center for the next 10-15 years, but only if he learns how to play the game. The Bullets need to make that investment and guess what? It won't even count against the cap.

BTH could have had an impact much earlier in his career and helped the team win a playoff series if he had been taught how to play strong without taking the physical damage. SERIOUSLY!!!!! HOW MUCH DOES A BIG MAN COACH REALLY COST????? At $500,000, you can make that money back with the extra 2 playoff games you'll get at home.

Lastly....and I'm just throwing this out there...Would there be ANY value whatsoever to get Antoine Walker to sign for the league minimum, even if its just to chuck up some 3's when you're way behind in the 3rd or early 4th quarter? It looks like he needs some cash pretty badly...but then again, he might be in jail by the time the season starts...oh yes - and I really hate him.

Posted by: Blurred | July 22, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

blurred: "McGuire is a role player that can come off the bench with some energy...that's it; that's all he will be or should be...seriously, he isn't going to be the defining player in more than 1 or 2 games, and that's only going to happen if he can make a key defensive stop while giving CB a break in the fourth."

Remember how important Bruce Bowen was to the Spurs' championships? He can be that important to the Wiz.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 22, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Samson - did you purposely remove this "It's an important job and he should be constantly working on his skills"? That's what i was saying...a team can't be successful without guys like McGuire, but he isn't the defining member of the team. If you had a team of guys like McGuire, you would be the late 80's/early 90's bullets (AJ English; Eackles; The wrong Grant, etc) and have 2nd stringers playing as your starters...oh wait, that was last year too...but fortunately that was due to injuries, not by design.

Posted by: Blurred | July 22, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Blurred

That's okay you can agree with me (now Kal I don't know about ;) just because I rant about the old man doesn't mean I don't know the right way the game is supposed to be played.

The reason I call Abe Cheap is because of the little things like hiring a good big man coach. Look at what Ewing has done for Howard?

If you have an investment (players) wouldn’t you want to hire the best people around to train and nurture them? That’s why I don’t think the organization really wants to win a championship. They aren’t willing to do the little ($)things it takes to win it all. They think all you have to do is throw some players on the court and you win. That may have worked back in 78 but in today’s world.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Prazak: >> Sagaliba, I don't think there's that much connection between Brendan's fate and the Big 3. The team could easily decide to move Haywood without deciding to break up the team and rebuild. It all turns on McGee's (or Blatche's) development this year.

If Wiz still wants to be a contender after next season, then it is not going to be enough to start a 3rd yr center, and back him up with a Bi-Annual exception guy Wiz is going to sign this season. (McGee picks up fouls easy, and Blatche is not really a center.)

We all know what kind of contract Gortat and Varejao signed recently. And that's the kind of money that a contender would have to spend to bolster their front line. So if Haywood's demand is reasonable (vs. bringing in someone else), why not just keep him?

kalo_rama: >> I don't see him leaving money on the table in order to do the Wiz any favors, esp. if a legit contender comes sniffing around for his services.

Well, I said he is not greedy, didn't say he is stupid. :)

However, most legit contenders would only have MLE to spend, unless they are signing their own players (e.g., Varejao and Gortat). So baring a sign-and-trade, Haywood is unlikely to get a better deal "with a legit contender." And a sign-and-trade is not very likely because if the contender just giving up garbage, then Wiz has no reason to do it; if the contender has to give up assets that makes the price of acquiring him even higher.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 22, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse


T.Parker G 35:43 30
M.Finley G 14:36 2
B.Bowen F 40:37 3
T.Duncan F 35:57 23
F.Oberto C 20:19 4
M.Ginobili 28:07 25
R.Horry 26:26 5
F.Elson 13:18 6
J.Vaughn 12:17 2
B.Barry 11:45 3
B.Udrih 00:55 0
M.Bonner

here are the stats of a championship team ...you have 5 guys getting most of the minutes, 3 guys scoring most of the points and some role players who know their roles

Replace parker with gil
Replace Finley with DShawn
Replace Bowen with CB
Replace Duncan with AJ
Replace Oberto with BTH
Replace Ginobili with Foye
Replace Horry with Miller

Then 3 other players getting limited mins would be McGuire, Blatche, Critt; but, these last players are just there to give the other guys a rest, not to carry the team?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Thomas was a lottery pick, not a late first rounder. He was a lottery pick because teams believed that he had more potential/upside/whatever coming out of college than Haywood. Haywood was a late first rounder because there were concerns about his attitude, toughness and work ethic.

The fact that he missed most of his first couple seasons due to injury probably ended up helping Thomas because when FA time came, teams were still forced to evaluate him largely on his potential and hopes that he'd fulfill (a vain hope, as it turned out). Conversely, Haywood spent his first couple of seasons living down to the same rep that resulted in him falling in the draft and contributed to a lack of a big FA market for his services.

Posted by: kalo_rama
------------------------------------------

By the time when they sign the 2nd contract, their drafting position is not as important as their play on the court. Besides, their drafting position is only 8 places apart (in different year though), while the groups that you tried to put them in, "lottery pick" and "late first round," each spans over more than 8 positions!

If the draft position is so important, then why would Dalembert, who was drafted 6 positions behind Haywood got a much bigger contract? In fact, as I mentioned before, Dalembert's stats right before the contract (8.2 p/7.5r/1.7b) is not better than Haywood's (9.4p/6.8r/1.7b) either.

Do I think Haywood is underpaid? Hell no, I think others are overpaid! But my point is, if the offer is reasonable, I think Haywood would sign it, that's what I meant by "not greedy."

Posted by: sagaliba | July 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"I don't think there's that much connection between Brendan's fate and the Big 3. The team could easily decide to move Haywood without deciding to break up the team and rebuild. It all turns on McGee's (or Blatche's) development this year."

It is perplexing to me how some can say that if Blatche and McGee step up to the plate, then Haywood becomes expendable.

My thougt is you want all three to step up to the plate. All three of them guys rockin, poppin, stoppin, and trash talkin' is what you want to take this Team to the next level. And then you had add a big with them.

What good does it do if Blatche and McGee excell, so you decide you can drop Haywood.

That is moronic to me. Then you got to sign somebody on the cheap to fill a important and needed role. You make yourself worse off.

The last time I checked, we need another Big Fella now, to go with what we have.

So there are arguments here indicating that if two of our big fellas step up, then we can drop the third one. Wow!

Boy, there is some real bright logic rounds' here'.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 22, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

BF78 - Right again!

I didn't realize Bowen played that many minutes. 40+!!!! Really?

That blows the whole Bowen = McGuire storyline to pieces. If bowen can get 40 minutes on a champ team and McGuire can pull, what?? 25 mpg on a dreadful, injury decimated team, there is no point in comparing the two.

As i sayed...McGuire is a very important, off the bench roleplayer who should continue to improve his skills. Bowen was a 40 mpg starter. Completely different roles.

Posted by: Blurred | July 22, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

ummm...I do know it is spelled "said", not "sayed."

Posted by: Blurred | July 22, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Larry,

Most championship teams are only 8 players deep. This team had what 5 players on their summer roster? That doesn't sound like they are ready to carry this team to a championship anytime soon.

To win they need a starting lineup of

Gil pg
Dshawn sg 15 mins
CB sf
AJ pf
BTH c

Foye sg 30 mins
Miller 6th man (sf/sg)
Blathce 20 mins (pf/C)

If Mcguire, Citt, McGee, Young and/or James are logging starter mins then that means a starter or two got hurt and this team has no chance at winning a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

BulletsFan78 will not let go of the argument of this Org' being cheap even though you can make the argument that the Org' has spent a few bucks.

But as I look at comments here about whom we need to let go next year for salary reasons excetera, it seems clear that the reasonings here are based soley on the money.

Now, don't ge me wrong, the money is important, but when I look at this roster, there is only one player left that you can get rid of just because of the money and that is Mike James.

We currently have 13 players w/MJ, so techincally counting MJ, that gives us 3 positions that we can fill.

So lets assume that the 12 guys perform admirably up to there expectations and then some in some cases and we are one of the top Teams in the East.

So, what do we do? Do we spend money to fill those final three spots with the best players possible to be even better.

Or do we dicker around with the 12 slots to stay at current salary levels.

If we do the latter, which most of your comments seem to indicate, then BULLETSFAN78 is owed allegience from a lot of you, for most of you are really preachin' the same thing he is sayan'.

And get this, let say you spend the money to get the best three players, and your Team is rockin and you are selling out the Phone Booth and your Team is turning a profit, might not that be worth it?

Hello!!!

So, to not attempt that if the situation presents itself makes BULLETSFAN78 a wise fellow.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 22, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

If Mcguire, Citt, McGee, Young and/or James are logging starter mins then that means a starter or two got hurt and this team has no chance at winning a championship.

I hope I see as many minutes in a Wizard uniform as Mike James does this season.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 22, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

If you have 12 players on your roster and only 10 play, what's the point of paying too much for 3 more?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 22, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

BF78,

Eight Man rotations is a philosophy only. That philosophy hurt Orlando when they brought Dumpy back from injury. Besides screwing up the chemistry they had, it put a guard on the bench, (can't recall his name) out of the rotation. The guard in question was an asset to the Team.

You cannot use a philosophy to the detriment of your Team and besides LA being on their game, Orlando hurt themselves by not using all there players appropriately.

There is something to be said for an 8-man rotation, but doing the course of the game and most importantly playoff games, you cannot be stubborn and play a player(s) in the rotation whom is not getting the job done at the expense of player(s) whom was already doing the job for you.

Thats why it is important to have a deep bench, that can step in for short dumpy players coming back from shoulder injury whom clearly should have never played in the series. Their guard play was not an issue for them atall.

The coach made a decision based on rotational philosophy, that was not in the best interest of his Team, when he should have made a decision based on the players that had gotten him there.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Right on Larry!

If Wiz wants to be a contender after 2010, then it does not make sense to start a 3rd yr C and back him up with a cheap bi-annual exception guy.

So if Wiz does not re-sign Haywood, then they would still need to sign someone decent from the FA market. And if Haywood's demand is in the ballpark with the FA market, I do not see any reason why Wiz has to avoid him.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 22, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

If you have 12 players on your roster and only 10 play, what's the point of paying too much for 3 more?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 22, 2009 12:16 PM

Samson 151, you need to have 15 on your roster for those behind the scene preparations that make champions.

I assure you that Teams that only have 12 players on the there roster must not only be good, they better be damn lucky.

Not haveing enough bodies is a critical flaw for any NBA Team.

You know you can move back and forth from the active slots to the inactive slots. For most of the season last year we basically played with 10 players. BH, GA, DS, ET, out w/injury and Pech hardly played atall. That basically left us with Ten and when you factor in the DNP's with a sniff of gametime minutes, we were down to 8-9 players per game.

Thats not the way to set an 8-man rotation.

Trust me, if you start out short of bodies and you don't have open slots, you gonna get shorter.

Those 3 slots we have open, I would sign them to 1yr contracts according to need for my Team and not all at once.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 22, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Larry,

I am not saying you have to stick with an eight man rotation.

If you look at the past championship teams most of them had a solid starting 5, a really good 6th man, and some role players who understood their place on the team.

You’re right about Stan Van Gundy; he screwed up the team chemistry when he played Nelson instead of Alston in the 4th quarter. Remember the Wizards did the same thing when they brought Gil back to play in the playoffs?

Team chemistry is the most important thing when it comes to playing “TEAM” basketball. Look at your Tar Heels and my Terps? The year the Terps won they weren’t the most talented team, but they played together for 4 years and that made team a better “TEAM” then the other 63 teams in the tourney.

Considering two guys are coming off of injuries, this year will be a growing year for the Wizards. They have a new coach, a new style of playing, and a couple of new players (Miller and Foye) who are going to get a lot of minutes.

That’s the reason Vegas has them at a 75-1 odds at winning it all.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Here's how I see the min/game for the current roster shaking out (with the youngsters getting more pt in blowout wins/losses). Stats are based on last years' performance except Arenas (06-07), Stevenson (07-08) & Haywood (07-08).

With a healthy roster we will finally have the flexibility to keep our starters fresh on a nightly basis using different combo's when different guys are playing well . . . while at the same time keeping the vets on the floor - i.e Foye, Young, Miller, AJ, Haywood or Arenas, Foye, Jameson, Blatche, Haywood . . . on any given night you could start 5 or 6 different lineups.

Thoughts?

PG Min Points Rebounds Assist Steal Blocks
Arenas 36 25.69 4.07 5.43 1.72 0.18
Foye 12 5.49 1.04 1.45 0.34 0.13
Crittenden 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

SG
Miller 24 7.36 4.90 3.34 0.30 0.30
Young 12 5.84 1.02 0.64 0.27 0.11
Stevenson 12 4.29 1.11 1.19 0.31 0.04
Foye 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

SF
Butler 36 19.40 5.78 4.01 1.49 0.28
Miller 6 1.84 1.23 0.84 0.07 0.07
D-Mac 6 1.03 1.24 0.57 0.18 0.21

PF
Jameson 36 20.92 8.39 1.79 1.13 0.28
Blatche 12 5.00 2.65 0.85 0.35 0.50
D-Mac 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

Center
Haywood 30 11.40 7.74 0.97 0.43 1.83
Blatche 8 3.33 1.77 0.57 0.23 0.33
McGee 10 4.28 2.57 0.20 0.26 0.66

Totals 115.87 43.51 21.84 7.08 4.92

Total Min Played
Arenas - 36
Miller - 30
Butler - 36
Jameson - 36
Haywood - 30
Foye - 12
Young - 12
Stevenson - 12
D-mac - 6
McGee - 10

Posted by: ljack666 | July 22, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

If you have 12 players on your roster and only 10 play, what's the point of paying too much for 3 more?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 22, 2009 12:16 PM


The point is....the Wizards are hoping guys (that were sent to the summer leauge) are going to be able to step up and play this year.

Would you rather have Wallace as your big man off the bench or McGee/Blathce?

Robert Horry helped three different teams win 7 championships!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Wow you really think Randy Foye is going to play the same number of minutes as Critt?

Seriously?
I'd like to see those 36

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 22, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see those 36 minutes go down to the 32-33 range to keep them fresher.
Miller and Foye will easily be in the 20+ minute range.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 22, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I had Critt at 0 min . . . I'd like to see Arenas, Butler and Jameson @ a 32 min/night average as well but it is more realistic to see them playing 40 min some nights and 32 -34 min other nights.

Posted by: ljack666 | July 22, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

I understand the thought process of preferring Wallace off the bench. But, when was the last time Rasheed was a role-player? His best years look to be behind him so is he an upgrade over Blatche at this point?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 22, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

ljack666,

I can appreciate your comment, but I see you as well as many others do not have any faith in the abilities of JCrit.

JCrit is going to surprise a lot of bloggers on the site.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 22, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I understand the thought process of preferring Wallace off the bench. But, when was the last time Rasheed was a role-player? His best years look to be behind him so is he an upgrade over Blatche at this point?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 22, 2009 1:33 PM

YES!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...Rasheed is a upgrade over Blatche...but so is Milsap, Birdman and any other FA big man that we werent getting.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 22, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I can appreciate your comment, but I see you as well as many others do not have any faith in the abilities of JCrit.

JCrit is going to surprise a lot of bloggers on the site.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 22, 2009 1:37 PM

Larry,

Is it the Wizards don't have any faith in Critt or is it they don't have faith that Gil will last a whole season?

They went out and traded for Foye so someone knows something that they aren't telling us.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 22, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"By the time when they sign the 2nd contract, their drafting position is not as important as their play on the court. "

I didn't say draft position was important to contract signing. I said it was important as an indicator of what NBA GM's thought of Haywood and Thomas as players, respectively. The fact that Thomas was taken about 15 spots ahead of Haywood says they thought he was better and had more potential. It was that impression that created the parameters of the market for their services when they became FAs.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 22, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"They went out and traded for Foye so someone knows something that they aren't telling us.

Posted by: bulletsfan78"

They know that Foye has been a starting shooting guard first, which incidentally, the Wizards didn't have.

Posted by: psps23 | July 22, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"His best years look to be behind him so is he an upgrade over Blatche at this point?"

When he's healthy and plays focused and under control, yes. But anyone who's actually watched him play on a regular basis over the last couple of seasons knows how rare that is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 22, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I don't think any of these so-called big men that have already signed or are considered upgrades over Blatche considered Washington. Name one that signed with a team predicted to be the equal or less than washington?

San Antonio, Lakers, Orlando, Boston, Cleveland? Which other teams got these players? They certainly didn't sign with a team like Philly or Atlanta?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 22, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"If the draft position is so important, then why would Dalembert, who was drafted 6 positions behind Haywood got a much bigger contract?"

Because in the time between the draft and his contract signing, Dalembert showed greater potential than Haywood. Like I said, Haywood came in with a bad rep regarding his attitude and focus and did nothing in his first 2 or 3 years that convinced anyone that the impression was false. By contrast, Thomas was hurt a good part of his first 3 seasons (missing all of his rookie year in Dallas) so teams (or at least one team, the Bucks) were, to a large extent, still evaluating him based on his potential, which had yet to be really proven or disproved.

NOTE: I misspoke before. Thomas was actually drafted 8 spots (and 1 year) ahead of Haywood.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 22, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Back to Blatche vs. haywood:

Of course, if Blatche ever played focused and under control consistently, there'd be no need to discuss upgrades over him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 22, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

My quess is Foye was brought here to be a starter beside Arenas. If Gil's comeback is a little slow you'll see Foye manning more point for a while. But he wasn't brought here to be a backup point.

Gil has played best, and the team has gotten the most production, when Gil is teamed with a combo guard. Gil/Hughes and Gil/Daniels were both highly effective. When Gil was on the floor with Daniels he was often off the ball more then he was handling it.

I'd say the trade reflects that Ernie thinks Gil & Butler were playing too many minutes to be effective. Look for both guys regular season minutes to go down from when Gil was last healthy.

I think he's leaning the same way with Jamison, since McGee's been told by Flip that he'll play some minutes at the 4. Sounds like another center is on the way, Or at least Flip's thinking there is.

At this point I don't see that Stephenson and James are much on the team's radar. Stephenson could even start the season physically unable to perform. So it's hard to project minutes and production for him.

I think the Wiz will start the year very determined to see what they have in Young anyway. He's likely to be the first guard off the bench most of the time.

Miller may play some two guard, but unless Gil doesn't come back strong Young and Foye get the lion's share of the minutes there.

If Gil comes back strong, Foye's going to be the next guy to get his first Allstar berth while playing with Gil.

Critt may only get 10-12 minutes a game if everybody's healthy. But I've got to agree with Larry, don't sleep on the guy. He's got talent, he's working his tail off, and he's got a good mentor in Cassell.

Every year teams get banged up and tired come Feb. and March. Critt could be a guy that steps up and grabs some minutes late in the year.

McGee has two good summer league games and the debate is on to not resign Haywood. Unbeleivable...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 22, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Consistency is overvalued?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 21, 2009 1:29 PM
__________

What part did you miss in my comment? Is Wiz Insider just a bunch of nitpicking nannies at this point?

You got something legit you want to debate, then fine. But, when I say that is why AJ is *slightly* overvalued, meaning his durability vs a guy like Boozer 1) I'm implying it is valued 2) I applied slightly overvalued to AJ bc he is.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 4:38 AM | Report abuse

What part did you miss in my comment? Is Wiz Insider just a bunch of nitpicking nannies at this point?

You got something legit you want to debate, then fine. But, when I say that is why AJ is *slightly* overvalued, meaning his durability vs a guy like Boozer 1) I'm implying it is valued 2) I applied slightly overvalued to AJ bc he is.

Clearly...I was being sarcastic because of all the AJ bashing that goes on here. "Get rid of Jamison and start Blatche." Like consistency isn't important. Relax...geez.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

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