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Wizards Back in Action Today

After a day off on Thursday, the Wizards play the Minnesota Timberwolves tonight in Summer League play. Yesterday Dan Steinberg reported on Mike Miller's memories of his pet monkey and on Andray Blatche's backboard busting. Plus this comment from Antawn Jamison popped up on Yahoo!Sports.

By Alexa Steele  |  July 17, 2009; 10:23 AM ET
 
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Comments

FIrst

Posted by: Blurred | July 17, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

second

Posted by: wizRjizz | July 17, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Third

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 17, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

First with something worth saying:

AJ talking up Stephon "Intern-groping, lottery teammate, playoff loser, me-me-me" Marbury is appalling.

I hope he's doing that because the bum owes him money. I'll root for the ugh, Cavaliers (shudder) before I root for a team that overpays Stephon Cancerbury.

Posted by: mabkhar | July 17, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

And by overpay, I mean more than validating his parking.

Posted by: mabkhar | July 17, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

why dont we package MJ and one of our young bumz for Boozer?

Haywood, Boozer and Jamison would be a sexy front cout

Posted by: wizRjizz | July 17, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

could someone paste the comments jamison made on yahoo on here

Posted by: jasonma1 | July 17, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

"There are certain guys in the league that have an established reputation and you know what they can do, that they bring it every night," Jamison said. "Steph is one of those guys. I've known Steph since high school, and the things that he's accomplished as a person and as a player speak volumes. He's one of those guys that can't do anything but help the team out and make it a better team."

Posted by: mabkhar | July 17, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

AJ is obviously bored i mean why else would you lobby for an outright goofball like Stephon yeah i can see it now Gil and Starbury, a receipe for disaster.

Posted by: dargregmag | July 17, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Much ado about nothing. That's the kind of basic substance free boilerplate stuff players say when some reporter asks them about some rumor involving another player. There's nothing in there that screams "JAMISON WANTS MARBURY ON THE WIZ." It's more like "some guy asked Jamison about the rumor of Marbury joining the Wiz and Jamison was smart enough to realize there's nothing to be gained by trashing Marbury in print."

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

That Miller interview was funny. Never really read much about him, but for some reason I always got the impression he'd be a quirky guy.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I hope they play Blatche and Young all 5 SL games. I particularly want to see Blatche versus Griffin.

But it seems the guys need a decent point guard (namely, Crit) for the offense to flow.

McGee also needs to play to improve his game.

So with only 4 roster players allowed to suit up, that leaves McGuire as the odd man out. What would Taps say?

Posted by: Izman | July 17, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

it doesnt look like dominic will be getting major minutes this season. Obviously Nick Young is apart of the plans for the future. and perhaps andray blatche. but when i look at how the team is constructed, it does not look like there will be minutes for: James, stevenson,mcgee,mcguire.

thats why it is imperative the wiz get another big man. I am sure they will wait for desperate free agents wanting to get signed. ala sorry a** mikey moore, or some loser. but im not complaining because i think we are deep enough and im confidence in the coaching staff and players. we will see how arenas does. with him were a top 3 top 4 team. without him we are in the bottom half of playoff teams in the east

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 17, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

AJ is quite the diplomat--he knows Marbury isnt coming to the Wiz...hopefully that is the last we see of AB in summer league, he can go hit the tables now. Critter, NY, McGee and DMac need to play together and lets see some more of what Mr. Magic Mushroom can do too.

Posted by: oddjob1 | July 17, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

McGuire is going to see more time at the 4 this season.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"McGuire is going to see more time at the 4 this season."

That's certainly a possibility. He could do pretty well against a number of PFs who like to shoot from the perimeter. He'd be physically overmatched down low against the big bangers, but then so would pretty much every other PF on the Wizards' roster.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

McGuire will have to get some minutes at PF or he'll not play very much at all with Caron and Miller likely to get the bulk of the minutes at the 3. The Wiz have been very quiet about Stevenson's role, if any, for next year which indicates he's not in their plans. I was hoping he'd have been part of the package to go to Minnesota, but his back must have scared them off.

I could see the Wiz trying to showcase Stevenson in preseason so they could unload him with James and one of our young players for a legit veteran bigman who could provide us depth at the 4 and 5.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 17, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

There hasn't been much talk about the teams plans for anything or anyone, as is Grunfeld's habit, so I don't think you can take the lack of any pronouncements concerning Stevenson as indicative of anything.

That being said, if he's healthy and able to perform expect him to be in the rotation because, like most coaches on teams with playoff expectations, Saunders will tend to lean on his vets. But I have serious doubts about the likelihood os Stevenson being physically ready to get the job done.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Unless the Wizards add another big man that is better than McGee, McGee will be seeing minutes. Blatche won't be seeing 18 minutes per game at center (assuming Haywood averages 30 minutes per game, which may be optimistic).

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I could see the Wiz trying to showcase Stevenson...

I'd have more success showcasing my '75 AMC PACER.

No one's biting. He was average when healthy. Coming off an injury, his market value is at or near nil.

Posted by: original_mark | July 17, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Stevenson was definitely better than average when healthy. He shot about 40% on 3's and played pretty good defense. He was injured last season and played like trash. Fans have the shortest memory. You were probably giggling like a school girl talking about I can't feel my face waving your hand like an idiot when it was all good. LOL it's funny.

I don't see why McGuire couldn't play the 4 a little bit. How mean teams have an actual banger? He's athletic enough to handle spot duty there. They've said Mike Miller is gonna play some 4 too in the Rashard Lewis mold.

I really wouldn't mind seeing McGuire stay in the starting lineup at the 2. His shot is still suspect but the lineup has enough scorers. His defense and rebounding would be nice. However, they makes Foye the backup PG and limits Critt's minutes...and I think Critt can be a very nice player. Good size, can play with Gil but needs to learn how to shoot as well. This team has plenty of athletes. They may be even more uptempo than before.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards should approach DeShawn for a buyout. If they pay him the full amount left on his contract, the Wizards actually save money (due to the luxury tax levels dropping). Plus, it creates cap space next season.

And for Deshawn, he gets everything he's owed; gets the possibility to make even more money by signing with another team; and could potentially go to a roster that isn't so guard-heavy, giving him a better opportunity at seeing minutes.

Why not, unless the Wizards figure he's going to be a significant part of their plans this year?

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Who knows. They might need DeShawn. Critt is young, NY may regress. Gil is a missed step away from IR. James is definitely not in the plans.

Arenas, Foye, Young, Stevenson (if healthy) could be the top 4 guards.
Miller would play a little 2 I assume. Hopefully more to rotate equals fewer minutes. Do you honestly think Crittenton is ready to more than Stevenson (when healthy)? I don't.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Crittenton vs. Stevenson isn't really a valid comparison because they're completely different kinds of players with different roles. Steven's competition for minutes is going to be mostly with Foye and Miller (although I still think Miller should come off the bench regardless of who starts).

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"But I have serious doubts about the likelihood os Stevenson being physically ready to get the job done."

Taken from someone who had similar surgery, don't see why this will be the case if the surgery is successful. The season is still 3 months away!

Posted by: sagaliba | July 17, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"The Wizards should approach DeShawn for a buyout. If they pay him the full amount left on his contract, the Wizards actually save money (due to the luxury tax levels dropping). Plus, it creates cap space next season."

Why? Buyout still counts against the cap. So unless he is willing to take less, it doesn't make sense.

If there is no taker for James before the trading deadline, I am sure Wiz will try to buy out James.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 17, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Crittenton vs. Stevenson isn't really a valid comparison because they're completely different kinds of players with different roles. Steven's competition for minutes is going to be mostly with Foye and Miller (although I still think Miller should come off the bench regardless of who starts).

I agree. I can still see Arenas/Stevenson/Butler starting with Foye/Young/Miller coming off the bench. Is that better than Arenas/Foye/Butler with Critt/Young/Miller?

If Stevenson returns to form...Crittenton is going to be buried on the bench. Miller has to come off the bench. If Stevenson is shipped out though starting Miller at the 2 opens up minutes for McGuire (who I am high on)

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

"Do you honestly think Crittenton is ready to more than Stevenson (when healthy)? I don't.

Posted by: SDMDTSU"

"When healthy" being the caveat. And when he isn't, he's really, really, really bad.

Sure, a healthy Stevenson would be right on par with Foye and Young. But considering we already have both of those two (and they both have a much greater upside), and Miller, Caron, and Mcguire can all rotate in at the 2 for minutes, I really don't see how Stevenson will be needed.

Is the chance of a possibly healthy Stevenson being needed more valuable to the Wizards than an extra $4 million in cap space next season? Not even close, IMO.

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

McGuire doesn't need to play the 2 and neither does Butler. EVER. Stevenson had a back injury. Of course he was really bad.

Nick Young unfortunately is not on Stevenson's level when healthy. Nick Young actually has a long way to go to becoming a quality starter in this league. Upside means nothing to me. It looks like Flip and his staff are trying to bring that out of him though. Nick Young is on the path to becoming Ricky Davis.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"Why? Buyout still counts against the cap. So unless he is willing to take less, it doesn't make sense."

It would save space on next year's cap. Or am I wrong there?

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

McGuire will see more minutes than Young this season if his handle is improved at all. He defends, rebounds, and facilitates much better than Young...and this team has plenty of scorers already. Better to have Dominic trying to lock down the opposition's 2, than Nick trying to outscore them.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"If Stevenson returns to form...Crittenton is going to be buried on the bench. "

Stevenson isn't directly competing with Crittenton for minutes. They play different positions. Stevenson is a SG (and occasional SF), Crittenton is a PG, period. If anybody gets squeezed out by Stevenson it'll most likely be Young, not Crittenton. Young's place in the rotation is far from a given.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Which is not to say that Crittenton won't get buried either, but if he does it'll be due more to Foye than Stevenson.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Stevenson has no future with the team until he gives up thinking of himself as a scorer. The guy is a bricklayer and we've no reason to watch him shoot 16% from downtown in the first month of the season while deciding what exactly his role should be. Team has plenty of firepower, his talent for us now is defensive

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

psps23,

According to this site http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q60:

"If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary."

Posted by: sagaliba | July 17, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"Nick Young is on the path to becoming Ricky Davis. "

While he was mostly often selfish chucker on the court (and a cancer in the locker room), Davis at least had the ability and knowledge (if not the will) to play an all around game. He had multidimensional skill but chose to play only in one dimension. I honestly don't think Young even understands that there's more to the game than scoring.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"McGuire doesn't need to play the 2 and neither does Butler. EVER."

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 2:49 PM


First of all, let's backtrack about 30 minutes:


"I really wouldn't mind seeing McGuire stay in the starting lineup at the 2.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 2:14 PM "


Now that we've got that out of the way...

Butler is MUCH better at the 2 than Stevenson is.

He's also much better at the 3 than he is at the 2, but with Miller and the hopeful improvement of McGuire, it's not necessary for him to play every single one of his minutes at that position (let alone any time AJ may find at the 3, in given situations).

So, now we've got Foye, Young, Miller, Butler, and McGuire that can all play at the 2, four of whom can play at least as well as Stevenson, but Stevenson is still a critical piece to this roster (which isn't mentioning any time that Arenas could see at the 2 as well)? Really?

At this rate, Mike James will be critical to the roster as well.

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

"Stevenson has no future with the team until he gives up thinking of himself as a scorer. The guy is a bricklayer and we've no reason to watch him shoot 16% from downtown in the first month of the season"

He wasn't always a blockmason, you know. As recent as 06-07, he sank 40% of his 3 pointers. But he's also had whole seasons (like one in Orlando) where his shooting touch completely deserted him, and he less than twenty percent from outside.

I think it's his back.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

"If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary."

Posted by: sagaliba

What happens if he has a player option? I don't see how that would count, as he wouldn't exercise that option should the Wizards buy him out this season.

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

McGuire would be an outstanding all-around shooting guard, if it wasn't for the shooting requirement. He's worse than Ricky Rubio.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Stevenson isn't directly competing with Crittenton for minutes. They play different positions. Stevenson is a SG (and occasional SF), Crittenton is a PG, period. If anybody gets squeezed out by Stevenson it'll most likely be Young, not Crittenton. Young's place in the rotation is far from a given.

They aren't competing for minutes. But Crittenton will suffer as a result of DeShawn returning back to the starting lineup. Mainly because Foye will become the primary backup PG. 3rd string PG's wouldn't see a lot of clock I don't think. Unless they went with a big lineup with Critt and Arenas.

Stevenson has no future with the team until he gives up thinking of himself as a scorer.

I don't think Stevenson ever saw himself as a scorer. He was a complimentary player who was there to knock down open 3s created by the other 3 offensive players.
I'll give him a pass for last season because standing is hard enough with a bad back, let alone shooting a basketball. FT% dropped almost 30% from one season to the next? That doesn't happen just because. He was injured.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"Stevenson isn't directly competing with Crittenton for minutes. They play different positions. Stevenson is a SG (and occasional SF), Crittenton is a PG, period. If anybody gets squeezed out by Stevenson it'll most likely be Young, not Crittenton. Young's place in the rotation is far from a given."

Well, Stevenson had been used as backup PG before. Besides, Foye is a combo guard, so if Stevenson plays more at SG, it may result in Foye plays more at PG, and "indirectly" affects Crittenton.

OTOH, Stevenson and Young have different skill set. In addition to defense vs. offense, Stevenson is a spot up shooter while Young is more a one-on-one player. So situational substitute is still possible.

All in all, with so many guards, the backcourt is so crowed, I can't see they all get enough PT. The sure things are, Arenas will get his minutes when healthy, Foye will get his minutes, but the spread between SG and PG is unknown, Miller may swing between SF and SG (mostly SF I think), rest of them is all iffy.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 17, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Kal I think we're in agreement on the Foye/Young/Stevenson minutes. Just looking at it from the opposite direction. I see what you're saying.

psp. I did say I wouldn't mind seeing McGuire starting at the 2. It's not ideal. Hell, I changed my mind. So what. That's when I wasn't thinking about a healthy Stevenson. He is basically a more athletic DeShawn, bigger with his jumper from last season CONSISTENTLY.

Did you watch Butler play the 2 last season? 2's are quicker than him and constantly broke down the defense and scored or got to the line or kicked out for open 3s. He's stronger and bigger but not overly adept to posting them up. He's also not quick enough to beat them off the dribble and it makes his mid-range game suffer.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

"They aren't competing for minutes. But Crittenton will suffer as a result of DeShawn returning back to the starting lineup. Mainly because Foye will become the primary backup PG."

And, again, there's nothing that says, even remotely, that that's a given. Foye can play both guard spots and Crittenton has the size to guard most SGs. If Stevenson starts, there's nothing to say that Foye won't be the primary backup SG with Crittenton as the primary backup PG, with Young the odd man out. That's what summer league, training camp, and preseason are for, to figure out roles and rotations. It's way to early for anyone to have the door closed on them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Stevenson was about effective at PG as Juan Dixon. That was just because Gil was hurt.

Besides, we're looking at the roster being healthy. If Gil can't go (knock on wood) Foye starts with Young or Stevenson. Critt backing up Foye with Miller mixed in some. McGuire is gonna be more of a guy playing the 4 I think anyway. Everbody is gonna be playing less minutes I hope.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

"Well, Stevenson had been used as backup PG before."

Only because all of the actual PGs were injured and they had no other viable options. (BTW, how did that Stevenson as PG thing work out for the Wiz?)

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Kal...agreed.
I'm so used to seeing NY being the first guard off the bench...he could get buried.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Stevenson wont be starting on this team. I understand he had back issues last year, but he takes far too many shots and at this point we have more than enough firepower to not depend on deshawn getting his touch back.

Skinny Miller can take every single 3 deshawn would have IMO...that's why he is here. To bury the open jumpers Gil's attacking generates.

Unlike Nick Young and AB...dom is the young guy who actually EARNED his minutes. He'll play tons this year, will start at 2 some nights i think

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I'll just say this about the theme of this thread to all those that, perhaps, were not thrilled with the trade for Foye, Miller. We now have some depth at positions that were question marks previously. So, it makes the questions of whether DS is healthy enough or will NY ever "get it" less of a problem bc we now have plenty of depth and talent at the 1,2,3 spots on the court. And if it all works out for the better, it's better to have all that talent competing for mins than to have no talent at all. One of our big problems in recent seasons has been a young bench or no bench at all at certain positions. Now we do for the most part. Mike Miller is a former 6th man of the year! Yeah, I know the backups at the 4/5 are much thinner in more ways than one. No need to point that out to me...lol.

BTW, it's amazing to me how good these guys really are. Mike Miller saying he could make 70+ NBA three pointers in a row in practice is incredible to me. I'm sure he is not the only player that can do it, but I don't think it's the norm either.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"2's are quicker than him and constantly broke down the defense and scored or got to the line or kicked out for open 3s. He's stronger and bigger but not overly adept to posting them up. He's also not quick enough to beat them off the dribble and it makes his mid-range game suffer."

And despite all that, he was still more effective than Stevenson has ever been. I never said he was a perfect 2, I said he's an option (a better option than Stevenson is).

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Miller has a (well-earned) rep as a long-range gunner, but I don't think most people really get how good an all-around player he really is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

psps23,

Taken from the same site:
"When a contract contains an option year, a buyout amount for the option year can be written into the contract. The buyout amount may be up to 50% of the salary for the option year, and is payable with the exercise of an ETO or the non-exercise of an option."

BTW, I wasn't aware there is an option on Stevenson's contract.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 17, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Ah, ok Sagaliba. Got it. So it would require Stevenson to take less. Thanks for that.

Posted by: psps23 | July 17, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

And despite all that, he was still more effective than Stevenson has ever been. I never said he was a perfect 2, I said he's an option (a better option than Stevenson is).

I'll just disagree and leave it at that.
Caron isn't a playmaker and in result turns the ball over too much (I'm willing to bet he was top 5 in the league) and doesn't shoot with enough range to be a 2 in my eyes. Not to mention the injuries. You're entitled to you opinion though.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Agreed Kal,

Solid rebounder, shooter, and all around floor game. He is a very good player that has had quasi all-star seasons in the past. Nice addition!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm happy with getting Foye and Miller for #5. I just wonder how they are defensively? I know Miller is nice all-around and Foye was impressive at Nova...but going to Minnesota doesn't exactly get you a lot of exposure.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Whether Miller starts at the 2 or is our 6th man, he'll play 30+ minutes a night and will be our best 3-pt. shooter. He's also the type of player who can spot up or come off a pick and hit the J. Stevenson will earn his minutes with defense, not his 3-pt. shooting. Both Miller and Foye are better options than him from long-range.

As for NY, his playing time will be based on whether he's willing to try to play an all-around game vs. be a scorer who takes shots from everywhere. He's not able to play any position except SG unlike Foye who can play both guard positions. If NY steps up on both ends, Stevenson's minutes may be as a defensive specialist to cover a hot player on the other team. I'm sure EG regrets giving him a 4-year deal when no one really was interested in him a couple of summers ago. His back surgery and two years left on his deal make him almost untradable.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 17, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU,

Well I don't know. Neither player hurts us defensively that is for sure and Foye will probably be one of our better perimeter defenders. Being from Minnesota means nothing really. So what? They still have good players to be had and were for a long time a much more successful team than the Wizards.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm aware they have good players. You just never get to see them or hear about them much.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

wizfan89,

Yeah, if only EG had powers to see into the future to know that DS would need back surgery after two seasons. Plus, his initial season when "nobody wanted him" he player for pennies on the dollar in the NBA. Something less than a million I believe. So, he proved he was valuable that season and signed for what $12 million over 4 years? That's not really breaking the bank and I believe Blatche has a similar deal.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"I'm happy with getting Foye and Miller for #5. I just wonder how they are defensively? I know Miller is nice all-around and Foye was impressive at Nova...but going to Minnesota doesn't exactly get you a lot of exposure.Posted by: SDMDTSU"

Foye's a good defender against most guards, with the caveat that he doesn't match up well against the really quick PGs in the league. You'd expect him to struggle a bit against Derrick Rose or Chris Paul but do well playing Andre Miller or Mike Bibby. He's strong and doesn't seem to have a problem with shooting guards.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"You'd expect him to struggle a bit against Derrick Rose or Chris Paul but do well playing Andre Miller or Mike Bibby."

Yeah, but you could say the same about the majority of PGs in the league.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

At least the ones who actually play defense. There are some who would struggle with Bibby and Miller as well.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Samson and SDM,

Yeah, I happened to have relocated to Minneapolis so even though they are terrible I probably see them more than most Wiz fans, but not too often I might add as they are pretty bad these days. Anyway, Foye will "dig in" as they say on the defensive side of the ball. Sometimes he is not quite quick enough and sometimes a shooting guard can shoot over him. Think of a Songalia type effort player on the defensive end.

Yeah, most players struggle against Rose or Paul. So what? That's a given not a caveat. What is not a given is will you put forth the effort to at least contain them. Foye will do that night in and night out with some offensive capabilities of his own. Honestly, he reminds me of a slightly smaller maybe slightly more talented DS.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

What Foye can do far better than DS is handle the ball and make plays for his teammates!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

I think Foye will probably end up starting with Arenas in the backcourt as he will then be able to guard whichever backcourt player presents the biggest offensive threat. Maybe, just maybe, Arenas' ego kicks in a little and Foye forces him to give more effort on the defensive end as well. Plus, that will give us about as good a ball handling backcourt as there is in the NBA.

I could also see Foye being the primary PG when Arenas is not on the court and I could see Miller draining 3 after 3 as Arenas sucks in the defense. As Flip said, we have a lot of 1,2,3 type players, but we don't have a lot of the "same player" so there is a lot of interchangeability with them. No wonder Flip is excited about this team. Frankly, I think this will be the best season this team has had in forever. Including the days when the Hibatchi was just starting to cook.

The best part is we don't need Arenas to be 100% the player he was before nor do we need NY to be a prime time professional nor do we need DS to be the same player. We got some depth and if everything works out for the better like Arenas being near the same player etc..., I would not be suprised if we are pushing hard for the conference finals this season ala Denver last season. We have that kind of talent and depth!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

It could be Boston vs Wiz in Conference Finals. Wouldn't that be fun. With LeBaby on his way out of Cleveland bc I don't know what the hell they are doing there besides building the all-time least athletic team. Z, Shaq, Sideshow Bob, Wally...they may be big, but they are not fast. Even guys like Parker, Williams, and Gibson are unimpressive athletically for their positions. Teams should run them up and down the court all season long and let LeBaby get his 40 if that's the case.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Foye is a very solid defender and let's not forget- still a young player, he can get better.

Miller is a better slasher than people realize, he handles the ball very well and of course will knock down Js from all over. The caveat with him is he was pretty bad last year, so we're hoping that was an aberration and he'll get back to his 40% career from beyond the arc.

We have a ton of pieces, and it will be awhile before anything gels and Flip figures out who plays when etc. But at the very least, this team should be able to score like crazy. Yeah, yeah, Suns never won anything. I know, but I'd take the conf finals anyday!

Blacthe and NY will find themselves on the outs very quickly if they show the same crap attitude they have in the past. There is enough talent and professionalism on the team to move on without them. Hopefully this elevates their games

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Divi3,

Yep, agreed.

I am as certain as you can be that last season was an aberration for Miller bc it was his only such season thus far in his career. I think he just kind of lost his edge due to how bad the Wolves were and have been. Like he said, he got tired of losing, much like Butler last year with a second straight season of carrying too much of the load.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

If DS is healthy to play, he will definately be a starter.He is the only complete SG who can play along GA a shoot 1st PG, He handles the ball very well and he has a good size to play defense against star SG's.To me none of the wiz gards play defense, foye is very compititive but I am not shure about his size.
DS,GA,CB.AJ and BH 82 game starters. If DS is helathy i have a hard time to see the value of keeping NY, he has the best trade value in the team i would add AB and C for a sign and trade of David lee.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 17, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

I remember the Wolves getting quite hot last season just before Jefferson went down. Impression I got was that Foye had a lot to do with that streak. And thinking when the injury hit: jeez, these guys are unluckier than the Wizards.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

The thing about Foye defensively is that you could easily line him up against about half the shooting guards in the league and he'd do just fine. For all the term gets used, there aren't all that many true 'combo' guards playing. IMO he's one of them.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Can the Wizzies game be viewed anywhere?
The Channelsurf site doesn't work.

Posted by: VBFan | July 17, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

The best part is we don't need Arenas to be 100% the player he was before nor do we need NY to be a prime time professional nor do we need DS to be the same player. We got some depth and if everything works out for the better like Arenas being near the same player etc..., I would not be suprised if we are pushing hard for the conference finals this season ala Denver last season. We have that kind of talent and depth!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 5:44 PM


Are you writing this with a straight face?

The only way we get out of the 2nd round is if Gilbert is %110 the player that he used to be and Haywood plays like Dikemeb Mutombo in his prime.

We have nowhere near the talent/depth of Denver. We have no one who is a veteran accomplished floor leader like Chauncey Billups. With Gil's knee at less than 100%, we have no one who can create their own shot/create mismatches like Carmelo.

And if you think a frontcourt rotation of Nene, Martin and Andersen is reasonably comparable to Haywood, Jamison, Blatche/McGee, you are just plain nuts...the postseason isn't summer league.

It's nice to see you excited and all, and I'm sure this Wiz team will be fun to watch during the regular season. I bet they post 50 wins and when their shooting is hot, they are gonna blow some teams out of the water...they are even gonna steal a win or 2 from the likes of LA, Cleveland and Boston...

...then we are going to get into the playoffs and our lack of balance on offense (i.e. too many jump shooters, not enough post-up players) and defensive deficiencies (i.e. having Gil and AJ on the court for beaucoup minutes when neither can play D, and no one besides Haywood who can reasonably be called a decent post-up defender) are gonna be exposed big-time in a 7-game series...

Posted by: p1funk | July 17, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

p1funk,

Well, where do I begin. First, I said if everything goes well and GA is near the same player. Otherwise, yeah, probably not happening. Just like Denver had a lot fall in place for their run last year!

So...

Arenas - Billups
Haywood - Nene
Butler - Carmelo
Jamison - Martin
Miller - JR Smith
Blatche/McGee - Anderson
Foye - Ty Lawson

Then from there we still have NY (who can light it up as well as Smith when hot), Crit, and DS who are probably more talented than anyone they got left. I guess that have Kleza still. Their slightly better version of Pecherov.

From that list, I fail to see how they are clearly a better team. Yeah, they have just done it, but my point is we are as capable as they are of doing the same if things go well. And, Nene/Anderson/Martin do not play together, they couldn't score with that front court consistently. And, yeah, they played well on defense at times last year, but they were no defensive stalwarts. Denver never has been! Everyone tries harder on defense during the playoffs.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse

So, I can say that with a straight face.

I'll just add they are probably a slightly better defensive team and we probably have more offensive talent. But, how did it work out for them in the playoffs when they played a deeper/better offensive team in the Conference Finals? This ain't the Pat Riley Knicks era of basketball in the NBA anymore.

I think our defense will improve enough under Saunders as well!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Oh, my bad, I left out McGuire who is a far better player than anyone left on their bench!!!

Oops!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Andray Blatche: 4 of 15, 8 rebounds, 11 points in 28 minutes.

Oleksiy Pecherov, 5 of 11, 8 rebounds, 12 points in 23 minutes.

I guess Dray's new number means he's chucking bricks 7 days a week.

Posted by: satchmore | July 17, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Andray Blatche: 4 of 15, 8 rebounds, 11 points in 28 minutes.

Oleksiy Pecherov, 5 of 11, 8 rebounds, 12 points in 23 minutes.

I guess Dray's new number means he's chucking bricks 7 days a week.

Posted by: satchmore | July 17, 2009 10:12 PM

This is cruel, but fair. The Blatche knock is all about consistency after all, and he hasn't shown a lot of good common sense when he has the ball, which he likes to have most of the time.

But when he is on, as he was on Tuesday night, he can be sensational. Now, how do we bottle it so we can serve it up the same way every night?

Posted by: zinger1 | July 17, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

why no PT for Heytvelt? 2 min...

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 17, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Fair? One summer league game when he shoots poorly is a fair assessment of whether he has a new found commitment? Hardly.

Get back to me about 15 games into next season!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

SDM: "I really wouldn't mind seeing McGuire stay in the starting lineup at the 2. His shot is still suspect..."

As in, I suspect he can't hit it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 6:54 AM | Report abuse

Pech can play. Hopefully he gets a chance to prove it during the regular season.

If he were to become a candidate for 'most improved', I'd be ecstatic. It would underscore my point about how poor this staff is in developing players. His shot selection may have sucked here but part of it was due to frustration over being the 6th string C. He can rebound.

Posted by: original_mark | July 18, 2009 7:19 AM | Report abuse

"Skinny Miller can take every single 3 deshawn would have IMO...that's why he is here. To bury the open jumpers Gil's attacking generates."

And to rebound. If you consider him a shooting guard, then he led the NBA in rebounding last season. And if you call him a small forward, he finished third. That's in 32 minutes a game.

Not insignificant when you're a height-challenged club.

I don't exactly follow the Wolves, but there was an article after last season about Miller's frustration at playing with Jefferson, a very talented guy but a notorious 'black hole' who can't seem to find anybody to pass the ball to. Jefferson can be double teamed and still put a shot up. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of inside play if you never, ever, pass the ball back out to a shooter.

No worries about that with Haywood, at least.

I think we got lucky to find a trading partner that was willing to trade actuality for raw potential. A team that openly acknowledged they weren't going to be any good for a couple seasons at least. Because they gave up a lot for a little.

Call me crazy, but I feel reasonably certain Oly Pecherov is not going to be playing a whole lot this coming season, either.

I'm sure Grunfeld would rather have dumped Stevenson and held on to Songaila, but even the Wolves wouldn't fall for that.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 7:20 AM | Report abuse

"The Blatche knock is all about consistency after all...he can be sensational. Now, how do we bottle it so we can serve it up the same way every night?"

In a pez dispenser?

Posted by: midlevex | July 18, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

p1funk,

Well, where do I begin. First, I said if everything goes well and GA is near the same player. Otherwise, yeah, probably not happening. Just like Denver had a lot fall in place for their run last year!

So...

Arenas - Billups
Haywood - Nene
Butler - Carmelo
Jamison - Martin
Miller - JR Smith
Blatche/McGee - Anderson
Foye - Ty Lawson

Then from there we still have NY (who can light it up as well as Smith when hot), Crit, and DS who are probably more talented than anyone they got left. I guess that have Kleza still. Their slightly better version of Pecherov.

From that list, I fail to see how they are clearly a better team. Yeah, they have just done it, but my point is we are as capable as they are of doing the same if things go well. And, Nene/Anderson/Martin do not play together, they couldn't score with that front court consistently. And, yeah, they played well on defense at times last year, but they were no defensive stalwarts. Denver never has been! Everyone tries harder on defense during the playoffs.


Posted by: rphilli721 | July 17, 2009 9:52 PM


Quite frankly, I don't see how you've done anything to argue the point that the Wiz could be like the Nuggets. All you've done is list the depth charts and then say - "I like our talent".


Arenas - Billups: Billups is a playoff veteran floor leader with multiple All-Star appearances and a championship ring. And he also plays defense. Arenas is a shoot-first guard who was an All-Star before having 3 knee surgeries which makes him a big question mark. And he also does not play defense.

Bulter-Carmelo: Carmelo is consistently contending for the scoring title every year.

Jamison-Martin: Here's where things get interesting. Martin is precisely the kind of tough no-nonsense interior presence that the Wiz lack at the 4 spot.

You could say that Martin and Nene had "trouble" scoring consistently, but they averaged more than 20 points a night together in the playoffs while actaully playing the 4 and 5 spots like...well like a 4 and a 5 - with interior defense, rebounding, etc. The Wiz, on the other hand, have Jamison who plays more like a 2/3 and Blatche who has yet to find a position after 4 years in the league...but mostly also plays like a 3.

Denver can play defense, between Billups, Dantay Jones, Nene, Martin and Andersen, you've got guys that can provide some defensive cover at virtually every spot on the floor.

The issue is also balance, and not just player for player talent evaluation. The Nuggets have it and the Wiz don't.

Posted by: p1funk | July 18, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Blatche doesnt have to play if we can sign chris wilcox. Wilcox had some good games for seattle/oklahoma couple of huge rebounding nights.

i think he would be a better fit in the line up than blatche anyway. In the bog steinburg wrote, he mentioned how Blatche could not finish around the rim. Which is a major concern for a 6'11 player. I like Wilcox and he can block a few shots, throw some thunderous dunks and even catch a few ooops. the second unit would be nice with:

Wilcox
Mcguire
Miller
Young
Critt
and on certain match up nights one or two of those guys wont even be playing but thats some pretty good depth. (dont know how it would be playoff time because of the lack of experience) so i see a rotation of:

Arenas 17ppg 8 asst
Foye 15 ppg 4 reb 3 asst
Butler (should be the leading scorer) 21ppg 6 rebs
Jamison 18 ppg 9 rbs
Haywood 9.9 ppg 8 rebs

6th man- Young 15 ppg
7th- Miller- 9.7 ppg 37% 3 pt shooting/ crittenton 5 ppg 4 assists
8th- **Wilcox- 4ppg 6 rbs
9th- Blatche
10th Mcguire
11th- Stevenson
12- James
13- Mcghee

47-53 wins, 4th in the east 1st around against chicago/atl/miami second round...................Boston

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 18, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

DOn't know what happens to Heytvelt, or what coach see (not see) in him. So many write-ups and yet he played only 2-3 minutes per game for all 3 games.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 18, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"DOn't know what happens to Heytvelt, or what coach see (not see) in him. So many write-ups and yet he played only 2-3 minutes per game for all 3 games.Posted by: sagaliba"

If I had to guess, I'd say Blatche happened to him. They're looking at Andray in terms of whether he can play heavy minutes during the season, depending on the opponent. They're looking for interior offense, a recognized weakness. Heytvelt is considered a benchwarmer at best for next year, so he loses out.

I'd like to see him, however, in these last games.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

As I alluded to before, Blatche's importance is now tied to Jamison. Unless we are planning on giving Jamison some minutes at the 3, then Blatche has to perform well when Jamison sits, or Blatche's role will not be huge.

As it looks now, JaVale will get minutes behind Haywood. JaVale would look to get more minutes than Blatche.

Unless Saunders is looking to bring his starters in around 35 mpg, only JaVale based on past mpg for the starters would see increased minutes right away.

That being said, I do look for Haywood to increase his mpg and even at that, it is still going to be hard for Blatche to get increased minutes behind Jamison...unless Jamison plays some 3.

But any combination of two bigs on the floor with any of the big three looks good to me.

But, the point is that we may be putting to much emphasis on Blatche's role, for right now all he has to do is back up Jamison.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 18, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"Wilcox had some good games for seattle/oklahoma couple of huge rebounding nights."

"8th- **Wilcox- 4ppg 6 rbs"

Wilcox is a poor rebounder for his size and athleticism. He needed 30 mpg as a starter to average 7 rpg. There's no way he pulls down 6 coming off the bench behind Haywood and Jamison.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 18, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I think one X-factor it's easy to forget (it's been a while!)is that there's a reason Arenas was on the cover of NBA Live and was a phenomenon in the league.

When he's rolling he's a legit superstar (despite what guys like 88 would have you believe). Hell, he came out last year for what was basically 2 exhibition games for his fans, didn't look particularly game-ready, and still managed to average a double-double (including an impressive 20/1 assist to turnover ratio.)

He also tends to make his teammates better (see Larry Hughes, Jarred Jeffries)--and if he can have that kind of effect on a guy like Mike Miller (former 6th man of the year) or NY or Andray (who was still being worked into the rotation the year Arenas went down) we'll be an offensive juggernaut.

Add Haywood's improved play and the deeper bench, and I think this wiz team has potential to do way better than expected. I know all you Haterade chuggers will just peg me for a homer, but I'm looking forward to this season.

Posted by: Plix | July 18, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I thought the key to Denver was Billups. They've had talent in the past but never played well enough as a unit to exploit it. Billups fixed that, and with Ty Lawson on the roster this season, their future is brighter.

Curiously, IMO their vulnerability is inside. Nene and Anderson are good athletes, and Kenyon Martin has his moments, but who provides low-post scoring? How does that team match up against, say, Boston, Orlando, or Cleveland?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Nene pretty solidly established himself as a low post impact player last season, putting up 15 pts and shooting about 60% from the field. And he wasn't getting all his points off garbage rebounds; they went to him in the post. He's not going to be an All-star out West (although he probably would be in the East) but he showed he can get the job done in support of Anthony and Billups.

Of course this was his first season of full health in a while, so the question now is can he repeat that performance? But then, that's the same question hanging over every player following a career year.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 18, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

"Of course this was his first season of full health in a while, so the question now is can he repeat that performance? But then, that's the same question hanging over every player following a career year.Posted by: kalo_rama"

Yep, that's the concern. Looks like in 7 seasons he's managed to average 30 minutes a game exactly twice. But I was impressed by the positive effect he had on the game when he was in there. He did seem a little high in personal fouls (3.6 a game) during the regular season at least.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Curiously, IMO their vulnerability is inside. Nene and Anderson are good athletes, and Kenyon Martin has his moments, but who provides low-post scoring? How does that team match up against, say, Boston, Orlando, or Cleveland?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 12:32 PM

That's why they didn't make it past LA.
(Incidentally, it's also why we aren't making it past the second round)

Since the days of Jordan/Pippen, all championship teams have legitimate post-players - guys you can throw the ball to in the post who have moves, can score and/or pass out of a double team. This gives your squad balance in a half-court game and access to high-percentage shots that you need in the post-season when teams really decide to play D and opposing coaches have 7 games to scheme you.

As Kal pointed out, Nene could get on a roll for Denver now that he's healthy, not sure if the window is closing on Billups, though.

As for us, we've got no one nada zippo. Haywood's points come off of hustle and rebound/put backs. There's nothing about AJ's post-up game that resembles something like a true big-man's post up that you can run an offense through.

As sad as this is...I think the reason why Blatche is getting all these minutes in Summer League is b/c he is the guy on the roster with the closest thing resembling a back-to-the-basket post game (when he's not hoisting 20-footers 5 seconds into the shot clock) and they desperately need him to develop that.

Posted by: p1funk | July 18, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone see the game? Flynn went through Wizards as if they were swiss cheese. Ellington killed from the outside. You either have phenomenal talent or you don't. We're trying to figure out a lineup while other teams are figuring out who will sit. It's sad, and no I'm not a hater. I'm hopeful, but realistic and tired of a mediocre product. Dudes are running circles around us.

Posted by: lk11 | July 18, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"

Did anyone see the game? Flynn went through Wizards as if they were swiss cheese. Ellington killed from the outside. You either have phenomenal talent or you don't. We're trying to figure out a lineup while other teams are figuring out who will sit. It's sad, and no I'm not a hater. I'm hopeful, but realistic and tired of a mediocre product. Dudes are running circles around us.Posted by: lk11"

I didn't see the game. But the Wolves are surely not suffering from a surfeit of good players. Meanwhile, looks like the Wiz are going to have trouble finding court time for everybody. I can already hear folks complaining that the young guys never get on the court...

Summer league success doesn't translate to the regular season.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

p1funk: "I think the reason why Blatche is getting all these minutes in Summer League is b/c he is the guy on the roster with the closest thing resembling a back-to-the-basket post game"

That's their hope. Has been for several years now. He got a lot of court time last season.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

...if the Wiz are going to get a former Terp front court player, I'd rather it be Joe Smith than Wilcox. Wilcox doesnt seem to have improved his game one bit since he left UMD as a sophmore--a game based purely on athleticism and zero court sense or knowledge.

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 18, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

...depending on who Ernie signs, we may actually see AB backing up BTH at the 5 more and DMac being the the first PF off the bench behind AJ.

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 18, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

"I can already hear folks complaining that the young guys never get on the court..."

That only happens when the team throws out 10-game losing streaks and keeps a returning-from-surgery Etan Thomas on the court before a first round pick rookie with legitimate potential.

Posted by: psps23 | July 18, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

pfunk,

Ummm...I never said we are going to play the exact same style as the Nuggets except of course for all your talk of how good the Nuggets are defensively they ranked 15th in the league last season. The 19 win Wiz ranked 22nd out of 30 teams. So the Nuggets were average on defense, which is what we need to approach to get to the next level with this group! So, we could, in fact, end up being very similar to them with Haywood returning etc....

I was also not aware that talent evaluation or overall talent levels did not count or matter anymore in the NBA. When did this occur? It was widely assumed that the Lakers were the most talented team in the NBA and they just so happened to win the title.

I know your reply will be about balance yada yada. Well, every team has weaknesses. If we get say an Oberto to help backup the C postion, we are just fine. And, player to player, we are every bit as talented as Denver, if not even a little deeper at the end of the bench now.

So, you had asked me originally if I was making the comparison with a straight face and I think I've proven it's possible to do so.

Will it happen? I don't know. A lot of things have to fall into place just like it did for Denver last year to make the kind of run they did last season.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Is the game on right now? I Thought they played at 5:30 but dont see it listed on nba.com

Posted by: Dwe316 | July 18, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Since the days of Jordan/Pippen, all championship teams have legitimate post-players - guys you can throw the ball to in the post who have moves, can score and/or pass out of a double team. This gives your squad balance in a half-court game and access to high-percentage shots that you need in the post-season when teams really decide to play D and opposing coaches have 7 games to scheme you.

Posted by: p1funk | July 18, 2009 3:05 PM

Oh really. So, who is that guy for the Lakers? Pau Gasol, aka Antawn Jamison of the center position? The fact is there are only a few teams in the league with really good inside post up players. The Spurs, maybe Orlando (Howard is not exactly polished at all), Houston or Houston in the past tense, umm that's all I got off the top of my head...who? The league has changed and has been changing since the 90's. The league is less about centers and post up play and defense and more about scoring and three point shooting. Whether it's out of necessity or changing of rules or whatever, does not matter. It just is!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion, a key factor in today's NBA is having a top flight point guard/facilitator that can penetrate and create for others exactly bc the low post game has for the most part disappeared.

I think GA, if all is well, is as good at that as anybody in the NBA. It's why Butler and Jamison and the team struggled the last two seasons without him. I think Foye is a great pickup bc he is a good facilitator as well, particularly as your second best play maker!

LeBron and Kobe are their teams facilitators and they don't have the classic NBA lineup ala the Celtics, Lakers, or 76'ers of years past either!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Oh really. So, who is that guy for the Lakers? Pau Gasol, aka Antawn Jamison of the center position? The fact is there are only a few teams in the league with really good inside post up players. The Spurs, maybe Orlando (Howard is not exactly polished at all), Houston or Houston in the past tense, umm that's all I got off the top of my head...who? The league has changed and has been changing since the 90's. The league is less about centers and post up play and defense and more about scoring and three point shooting. Whether it's out of necessity or changing of rules or whatever, does not matter. It just is!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 6:14 PM


Pau Gasol is a great post-up player. He gets position, he's got solid moves with his back to the basket, he's a great passer out of the post...so WTH are you talking about? The knock on Gasol was that he couldn't defend in the post and wasn't a "banger", but he really stepped up in that role (along with Odom) and they won it this year.

As far as champions, I recall Olajuwan w/ the Rockets, obviously Duncan with the Spurs, when Detroit got Sheed that put them over the top, KG with the Celtics, Shaq with the Lakers and Heat, and now Gasol with the Lakers...so yeah, pretty much EVERY championship team since the Bulls has had a quality legit post-up guy that the offense can run through...it's not the only ingredient, but the record shows that the winners all have one.

But Kobe couldn't do it alone, LeBron can't do it alone, as talented as the Celtics were with Rondo/Pierce/Allen they couldn't do it without KG on the floor, the Mavs couldn't get it done with Dirk/Allen/Howard, the Bucks couldn't get it done with Allen/Cassel/Robinson, the Suns couldn't get it done with their guard-heavy 3-point shooting run-n-gun style, when Shaq started to decline DWade couldn't get it done by himself.

""The league is less about centers and post up play and defense and more about scoring and three point shooting. Whether it's out of necessity or changing of rules or whatever, does not matter. It just is!""

If we are talking about playoffs and winning championships, this statement is just flat-out ignorant and does not bear out the facts.

Posted by: p1funk | July 18, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Guards definitely have a huge impact, but it's true that if you look over the list of champions over the past few decades, there are a lot of really good big men.

Basketball just flat out favors size. Not as much as during the Chamberlain-Russell era, perhaps. And the Jordan teams being an exception, of course.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

""The 19 win Wiz ranked 22nd out of 30 teams. So the Nuggets were average on defense, which is what we need to approach to get to the next level with this group! So, we could, in fact, end up being very similar to them with Haywood returning etc....""

Haywood must be the 2nd coming of David Robinson if you think his presence alone is going to boost us from 22nd to 15th in defense.


""I was also not aware that talent evaluation or overall talent levels did not count or matter anymore in the NBA. When did this occur?""

I never said it did, so that's news to me too.

""If we get say an Oberto to help backup the C postion, we are just fine.""

Right. Fabricio Oberto is the missing piece to put us over the top and compete for a championship.

""And, player to player, we are every bit as talented as Denver, if not even a little deeper at the end of the bench now.""

Again, it would be nice for you to state some reasons why you think this is the case. Anyone can just post the depth charts and then say - "we are just as talented". That's not exactly providing reasons, and since the Nuggets made it to their conference finals last year and no one on the Wizards ever has that I can think of, the burden would seem to be on you to state reasons as to why the Wizards are player-for-player as talented (or moreso) than the Nuggets.


""So, you had asked me originally if I was making the comparison with a straight face and I think I've proven it's possible to do so. Will it happen? I don't know. A lot of things have to fall into place just like it did for Denver last year to make the kind of run they did last season""

Well that's a pretty trivial statement. You probably say the same thing for about 2 dozen teams in the NBA. Apart from cheery optimism and crossing fingers, you've provided very little to explain why we should think the Wiz are gonna make a Nuggets-like run or can play at that level in the postseason.

Posted by: p1funk | July 18, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey everybody,

ONLY 8 DIFFERENT TEAMS HAVE WON THE NBA TITLE IN THE LAST 30 SEASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GUESS WHAT?

After next year only 8 different teams will have won the NBA title in the last 31 seasons!

Why is this so?

Posted by: Vicc | July 18, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

After next year only 8 different teams will have won the NBA title in the last 31 seasons!

Why is this so?

Posted by: Vicc | July 18, 2009 9:11 PM

Vicc,

It's because certain organizations want to win while other organizations are more concerned about making a profit!

Yes, I'm back. Since I have been on vacation the Wizards have fallen to 8th place in team salaries. Other teams are talking about adding a Shaq, Wallace, and/or Jefferson and how they hope those moves will put them over the top.

The Wizards are talking about Mike Miller and his pet Monkey?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78,

Oh yea. Great answer. Thanx.

I keep forgetting the business aspect of sports; I dunno why I keep forgetting b/c that jerk from the Wizards ticket sales keeps blowing up my phone tryna figure out why I haven't attended a Wiz game since the playoffs in 2008!

My view on the NBA is too idealistic and not realistic..

Posted by: Vicc | July 18, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Well it was 31 years ago that the Bullets won the NBA championship, during a decade when crazy things happened -- Portland won with Bill Walton, Golden State won with Rick Barry, Milwaukee won with Kareem. And the Bullets were in the finals three times during that decade.

What was the difference? For the most part it was a relatively short man with a big butt and big heart who willed the home team to be competitive every night. In 1969, Wes Unseld was the rookie of the year and the most valuable player in the league.

Big Wes doesn't make plays anymore (and please spare us from him making decisions any more), but he stands as the symbol for what this franchise can do if we have a little luck, a lot of hard work, and serious chemistry. Are there any guys in this mix who can stir the drink. Yes, if they show up healthy and keep their heads in the game.

I like the attitude of this team, and I like the talent. I want to get behind them and I don't care a lick what some of you idiots say on this board. I'm not sure why I read it, except that occasionally there is a nugget of information. But not about the Nuggets. They're done. They had their season in the sun, and the couldn't get it done.

The Celtics will be our biggest problem next year. The Cavs will fade and LeBron will be heading to New York and Shaq to retirement. Orlando will disappoint with everyone trying to get their hands on the ball. We will have a shot if we stay healthy and make one more move to shore up our front court and move a guard or two.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 18, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

pfunk,

You have your opinion and I have mine.

Pau Gasol, however, is not a low post back to the basket "post up" player. Your on drugs! 95% of the time he gets the ball he faces his opponent up. If he is a "post up" player, then so is Antawn Jamison bc they go into their move with their back to the basket about the same amount of time!

In the same breath, Garnett is a great player, but he is not a "post up" player either. He would rather shoot 12 footers over the top of the defense or grab offensive rebounds. Paul Pierce is a better "post up" player for his position than Garnett. It's been one of the few knocks on him his entire career! Where have you been?

I think you are confusing tall front courts with actually having real post up players!

And, the league has been leaning more toward offense and 3 point shooting for years now. Why that is a news flash to you is beyond me? You must want to argue for arguments sake. Does this mean that great centers/post up players and playing great defense are no longer wanted or non-existent or needed on some level to be a champion? No, I never said that, but it is a league wide trend when compared to say the Pat Riley era Knicks.

Hakeen was before not after the Jordan Bulls by the way.

Duncan, Karl Malone, Boozer in his short lived prime (to name on of the very few more recent players), Ewing, Kareem, Hakeem, Parish, McHale, and Moses Malone were true post up players. By your definition, Chris Webber was a post up player. Oh, I'm sorry, by your definition Wallace was a post up player. The same 6'll" guy that loves nothing more than to lazily toss up three pointers. A great player, but a post up player he was not either. He could have been had he put his mind to it, that much I'll give you.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Oh, how dare I leave out Sir Charles Barkley off the list!

So, both the Lakers and the Pistons have won championships without a true post up player since the Bulls. Why? Bc there are very few such players in the league. That's why when everyone says, "hey, the Wiz need a low post player." I laugh to myself bc so do about 27 other teams in the league.

I never said Oberto puts us over the top for a championship, but it does add more balance to our roster and is needed as everyone is aware. Whether it's him or someone else.

The comparison is just what it is. I listed our players vs theirs. If you don't see comparable talent, then you don't see it. I do. We have 3 all-stars and a former 6th man of the year. They have 3 all-stars (although Martin is nowhere near his previous all-star form anymore) and a former 6th man of the year. Whether we achieve similar results this season with a vastly better coaching staff has yet to be seen, obviously.

It's that same coaching staff plus a returning legit NBA starting center that can very well improve our defense to the middle of the pack, which is all that it needs to be with our offensive talent!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

The issue is also balance, and not just player for player talent evaluation. The Nuggets have it and the Wiz don't.

Posted by: p1funk | July 18, 2009 9:23 AM
________

This is exactly where you are implying that it's not just "player for player talent evaluation" as you say in your own words. Yeah, balance matters, but the only place we are lacking balance is at the 4/5 backup positions, which still does not mean we are not comparably talented to Denver overall.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 18, 2009 11:57 PM | Report abuse

My final comment on this is that Steve Nash and the Suns would most likely have won the championship a couple of seasons ago without the dreaded suspension game. I believe none other than Michael Wilbon has my back on that assertion. So, they would have been another team since the Bulls, and they didn't even consider defense or posting up!!! The did like scoring and three point shots though!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Pistons sign Chris Wilcox to a 2-year deal.

"Hakeen was before not after the Jordan Bulls by the way."

Well, the Rockets titles came after the Bulls first 3-peat when Jordan was "retired."

"Pau Gasol, however, is not a low post back to the basket "post up" player. "

Yes, he is. He's also a face up mid-range shooter and an off the dribble attacker. Just because he can do one does not preclude him from doing the others. And he can do all three very well.

"So, both the Lakers and the Pistons have won championships without a true post up player since the Bulls."

As already noted, Pau Gasol is an outstandingly skilled post player. And the year the Pistons won the title, Rasheed was their go to guy in the post and delivered at a high level. Yes, he took a fair amount of 3-pointers, but there was a balance to the inside-outside mix of his game, a balance whose subsequent disappearance (as he relied more and more on 3-pointers) many point to as one of the main reasons why the Pistons failed to repeat.

You seem to be defining "post player" as a guy who does nothing pounds the ball inside under the basket and dunks it every time. By that definition, Shaq has been the only real post player in the NBA for the past decade and a half. But there are plenty of big men who can catch the ball deep in the paint and score around the basket, with hooks, turnaround jumpers, or off the dribble moves.

And I'm not sure where the whole "since the Bulls" thing comes in. The presence of a post player on title teams goes back well before the Bulls: McHale and Parrish on the Celts, Hakeem on the Rockets, Kareem (and Magic) on the Lakers, etc.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 12:05 AM | Report abuse

"I can already hear folks complaining that the young guys never get on the court..."
That only happens when the team throws out 10-game losing streaks and keeps a returning-from-surgery Etan Thomas on the court before a first round pick rookie with legitimate potential.Posted by: psps23"

Would that were true. It's worse in such situations, but there's a contingent of fanfolk who believe the kids can outplay the vets, if only they had the opportunity. And they're pretty vocal about it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Well, you guys can go to your watered version of post player all you want. Nobody is going to look back historically and think to themselves "oh yeah, that Pau Gasol was one great post player" in the traditional sense. He lives on the elbows just outside the lane mostly in the triangle offense with his own unique set of skills that involves a lot of finesse and facing up his opponent usually. Like I said, if you consider Gasol a back to the basket post up player, then you have to include AJ as well bc he makes as many baskets in that fashion as Gasol does and can command a double team when isolated in the post as well.

Mr. Wallace had crazy post up moves and was at times a more traditional post player in the McHale mode, but much like Webber chose to play a different way on most nights. He could have easily been an all-time great there had he chosen to be. Instead he chose to be just a pretty good player on a team full of pretty good players.

The overall point is you don't have to have that traditional sort of lineup anymore to win the title bc the league has evolved and there are not many players like that anymore. Blake Griffin might just be the next great player in that mold. A somewhat dying breed!


Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 3:28 AM | Report abuse

The whole "post Bulls" scenerio came up bc pfunk cited them as a exception to the rule of having to have a dominant post player to win the title.

I'll add the 2008 Lakers and the 2003 Pistons.

The Spurs, of course, have Duncan. Not even sure if another team has won other than those three since MJ left. Oh yeah, the Heat with Shaq. Definitely not on that list.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 3:46 AM | Report abuse

On to another topic, love the Steinberg article on NY bc it show me once again that Saunder's is "coaching 'em up" as they say. Something that did not occur with EJ. The fact that NY does not feel like NY, funny hearing him say that, is a good thing in my mind bc he is being forced to learn new things and evolve as a player. If EJ were coach, I think you would see the same player again and again and again. Of course, the season has not started, but something tells me that if these guys think Saunder's is kidding about what he wants from them they might be playing a lot less this season. Another thing that seems to me might be in play here is a little thing called respect. Not sure how much the players actually respected EJ.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 4:05 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz dominated Blake Griffin and the Clippers last night in the Summer League.
JaVale was 9 of 11 from the field and Crit was 9 of 12 from the foul line.
JaVale blocked 7 shots.
Abe Pollin has won more NBA Championships than Mark Cuban,Paul Allen and Senator Herb Kohl combined.

Posted by: jeremybozz | July 19, 2009 5:58 AM | Report abuse

Wow, checking box score.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 19, 2009 7:27 AM | Report abuse

NY -- 8 turnovers, thats got to be close to a summer league record too.
and non of them apple, cherry or blueberry.

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 19, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

well so much for the wilcox deal...now that leaves, mikki moore, jason collins, oberto, gooden left on the market....we will see where this goes.

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 19, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

JCritt, 1 turnover and 12 times to the line. Appears his speed was too fast to the basket for them.

I predicted that we might eventually see JCrit at the 1 and Gill at the two. I think that comibination would be more lethal than Gil at the 1 and anybody else at the 2 except Caron.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 19, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

John Thompson on Pau Gasol: "He's got every post move I've ever seen."

Funny to say that about a European big man.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

And you think McGee might have been a bit motivated playing against the Blake Griffin led Team. Yeah Boy!

Wish I could have seen that game.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 19, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Y'know, if the Wiz were willing to move all their home games to the cement courts in Southeast, Nick Young might average 40 points.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD.

Larry, Larry, Larry,

Come on man this is the Summer League?

Most of these players won't even be playing in the NBA next year. You can't judge how a player is going to do in the NBA based on how they play against a bunch of stiffs. The next thing I am going to read is based on yesterday’s game people would have taken JM over Blake if JM had waited and came out the same time Blake did?

This is the problem with basketball, the AAU, McDonald all American, and the summer league games they are like the all star game….nobody cares about playing “D” they just want to dunk. Nobody is learning how to play the “GAME” of basketball anymore?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Larry,

Deam Smith must be happy he doesn't have to try and coach todays players.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Saying Gasol isn't a post-player is like saying Kobe Bryant isn't a 3-point shooter. Sure, maybe they're not defined that way, but there isn't (or shouldn't be) a question in anybody's mind as to whether they can do it, and do it on a very high level.

And the point is not that they have a post-player operating down low on every single possession, but that they have the option of going there at any moment.

Posted by: psps23 | July 19, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

"NY -- 8 turnovers, thats got to be close to a summer league record too.Posted by: oddjob2"

Unfortunately, no. Summer League is turnover territory. Blatche had 7 the other night, and he's not even a guard.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

psps23

It also depends on who is gurading them. Is Gasol going to try and post Howard every time down the court? No.

If he were playing the Wizards last year and DSong was guarding him, he would have abused him in the post due to the height advantage.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

"Nobody is going to look back historically and think to themselves "oh yeah, that Pau Gasol was one great post player" in the traditional sense."

Who said anything about "tradition"?

Just because a player isn't a bull in a china shop type physical brute doesn't mean he's not a post player. A post player is a guy who can score in the post. Period. It has nothing to do with "tradition" or style." It is exactly what it describes. Hakeem wasn't exactly a physical brute offensively, but what he lacked in brute force he made up for in skill and quickness, just like Gasol.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I find it funny that Pao Gasol is being held out as a badass post presence (at 7', 250 lbs), while the general hater population complains Blatche (listed at 6'11 248 last season, and bigger now)is too skinny to have an effective post game.

Posted by: Plix | July 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Former Piston Ben Wallace, who recently reached a $10 million buyout with the Phoenix Suns, is among the most likely players Detroit will add to its roster.

DC_MAN88

Hasn't someone on here been telling you players NEVER agree to buyouts?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Who said Gasol was a "badass"? And who said that Blatche was too skinny to have a post game?

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"My final comment on this is that Steve Nash and the Suns would most likely have won the championship a couple of seasons ago without the dreaded suspension game. I believe none other than Michael Wilbon has my back on that assertion. So, they would have been another team since the Bulls, and they didn't even consider defense or posting up!!!"

Nice bit of speculation, but since it didn't happen, that's all it really is. The fact is that the Suns didn't win a title and that the Spurs, a team featuring one of the best post players in the history of the game, did.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Points in the post are harder to get now that the NBA has changed the illegal defense rules. These days, it's much, much harder to pass the ball in to the post. Also, double teams come much faster. These days, weak side help defenders don't have to stay close to their man anymore. The only limitation to defensive spacing now is the three second limitation in the paint.

Before the rule changes, teams pretty much had to have a dominant post player to have a chance to win a championship. Not so much anymore.

Posted by: yop32 | July 19, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Let's see.....

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

LA
Boston
Orlando
Cleveland
San Antonio

are willing to spend luxury cap money to try and win it all!

While CHEAP ABE will not spend a penny(trading the 1st round pick and selling the 2nd round pick) to try and win a championship.

Mybe people should think twice before sending your money to CHEAP ABE?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Skip ahead to 1:40, where J. McGee dunks on Blake Griffin.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4339046

Posted by: pjkiger1 | July 19, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Suns were never going to win a title, with or without suspension game. Wilbon is wrong about many things these days, most recently that Rubio is clearly going to be an nba superstar that we'll regret having passed on.

NY and AB are two guys who have a lot to prove, and they're getting the minutes accordingly. Two unprofessional goof-offs who are now being asked to do exactly what there are told and do it well. Great to see NY responding so far, Blatche too.

I still suspect however, they are being showcased for potential trade scenarios as well.

We shall see

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

this is what i'm talkin about:

JaVale McGee should help Washington's frontcourt rotation a good deal this season. He's got so much agility on both ends, a soft touch, and actually knows how to backpedal against a speedy guard coming off a screen. He got the better of DeAndre Jordan tonight and, prototypically, the guys have similar profiles. McGee put up a gaudy line: 19 points (9-for-11 from the field), seven blocks and four rebounds.

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

The most telling part of the piece on Young is the fact that, more than once, he complained about how unnatural his new catch and shoot role felt and that he felt like "just a shooter, strictly shooting" and indicated later that his "freelancing" ways would eventually return but that he'd "stick with" Flip's scheme "for right now."

He just doesn't seem to get it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

These summer league results translates to positive regular season development with this new staff BulletsFan78.

The past seasons with this Wizard Team meant nothing for developing players or using their talents properly.

Anyone would have to know that a good first rate staff that has been assemebled this year means volumes for this Team.

Thats why I am excited about this Summer League and this Wizard Team.

I could care less about the mizerly in Abe.

Can we win games and finish at least 4th in the East is a real possibility.

And trust me my friend, BulletFans78; If you can finish at least 4th, anything can happen.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 19, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

"he felt like "just a shooter, strictly shooting" and indicated later that his "freelancing" ways would eventually return but that he'd "stick with" Flip's scheme "for right now."He just doesn't seem to get it.Posted by: kalo_rama"

I noticed that.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

rphili,

Kal has pretty much responded the way I would, so we just need to end this conversation.

I'm realizing the futlity of trying to have this debate with you.

I can't have a real basketball discussion with someone who doesn't think Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace can NOT play in the low-post. Or think Pau Gasol and Antawn Jamison pretty much play the same way. Or by force of imagination have gone ahead and crowned the Suns champions, even though they didn't actually win.

Yes, you are right in noting that you have your opinion and I have mine. I think my opinion of KG, Sheed and Pau as being great/effective post-players is in line with the vast majority. Just b/c these guys develop other facets of their game and don't lower their shoulders to dunk every time does not mean they aren't post players.

Here's an exercise for you, and then we'll call it quits: Go ahead and Google the terms "Kevin Garnett low-post", "Pau Gasol low-post" and "Rasheed Wallace low-post". Take some time to read through the comments/articles/quotes that you find. My guess is somewhere around 90% of them will agree with me and disagree with you.

I know with your favored method of arguing-by-imagination it may not mean much to you, but maybe it will open your eyes a little...

Posted by: p1funk | July 19, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I find it funny that Pao Gasol is being held out as a badass post presence (at 7', 250 lbs), while the general hater population complains Blatche (listed at 6'11 248 last season, and bigger now)is too skinny to have an effective post game.

Posted by: Plix | July 19, 2009 12:35 PM

Did you watch the playoffs and Finals?? Against the likes of Dwight Howard and Gortat and whichever other big-man Orlando threw at him, Gasol averaged 19 points, 9 rebs and 2 blocks a game - that's pretty "badass" IMO.

And I said a few posts earlier that Blatche is the guy on the team with the closest thing to a back-to-the-basket post up game...considering how undeveloped that is, I think it is sad (that's not a knock on Blatche, it is a knock on the rest of the Zards roster), but I do think he could develop it if he would layoff the 20-footers...

Posted by: p1funk | July 19, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

AB hasn't developed any facet of his game yet and it's because he has not been professional in his attitude. Some guys are hungry after their 1st year, spend countless hours in the gym developing SOMETHING. Others play video games.

He's still young though, maybe the light bulb has clicked

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"And I said a few posts earlier that Blatche is the guy on the team with the closest thing to a back-to-the-basket post up game"

Jamison is actually a very good post player, skill-wise. The problem is that, as an undersized PF, he's most often guarded by much bigger guys which negates his inside game and forces him to the perimeter in order to exploit his shooting (and the reticence of most big men to guard out on the floor). Whenever Jamison is covered by a smaller defender, he'll take it inside and usually either score or get to the line. The problem for the Wiz is that it doesn't happen nearly often enough to be a go-to strategic element.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

McGee lighting it up without Blatche and NY in the lineup. 31 pts, 8 rbs, 3 blocked shots in 33 minutes so far. I can't watch the game, but you don't normally get 31 off garbage buckets and putbacks. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

Posted by: gmAndAguinness. | July 19, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Oops, meant Blatche and Young OUT of the lineup.

Posted by: gmAndAguinness. | July 19, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Well I could point out that, to an extent, every point scored in summer league is a garbage bucket, but I do hope that McGee shows some improvement this season. He clearly has great physical skill, but really needs to work on his mental approach to the game. Hopefully Flip and Co. will help with that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Jamison is whirling dervish of post moves and other assorted crafty tricks, nobody else in the league plays like him and I've appreciated watching it these past seasons. Gotta love it.

I suspect Javale will get plenty of minutes at the 4 spot this season, sorry AB

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

These summer league results translates to positive regular season development with this new staff BulletsFan78.

LarryInClintonMD.

Larry I'm sorry, I forgot they are the Wizards and Flip is Oz?

Maybe he will give....
Gil a new knee
AJ some courage so he will play "D"
CB a jump shot
BTH some heart bang someone big guy
NY and AB a brain
JM some skills to go with his athleticism
Critt and DM some playing time
Mike Miller a new monkey
Foye a winning team
James a trade

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

"And I said a few posts earlier that Blatche is the guy on the team with the closest thing to a back-to-the-basket post up game"

Jamison is actually a very good post player, skill-wise. The problem is that, as an undersized PF, he's most often guarded by much bigger guys which negates his inside game and forces him to the perimeter in order to exploit his shooting (and the reticence of most big men to guard out on the floor). Whenever Jamison is covered by a smaller defender, he'll take it inside and usually either score or get to the line. The problem for the Wiz is that it doesn't happen nearly often enough to be a go-to strategic element.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 5:43 PM
______

I do agree that he needs to do that more often. I think on certain nights he should get many more touches in the post called than he has ever gotten since he's been here.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 8:07 PM | Report abuse

""I can't have a real basketball discussion with someone who doesn't think Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace can NOT play in the low-post."

...of course that should read "does think".

And on regarding AJ's "post" game, like everything else about his game it is pretty unorthodox and usually involves some kind of herky-jerky scoop shot. The kind of post-player we need is the kind that can draw double teams, anchor position, pass out of the post, etc. But yeah, if AJ is isolated on a smaller guy he can back him down with a dribble and stuff.

Posted by: p1funk | July 19, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

p1funk,

Yep, there's no debate now that Kal agrees with you. I never said those players and Pau did not have post up moves. I was just responding to the supposed need to have a dominant post player to win a NBA championship.

Points in the post are harder to get now that the NBA has changed the illegal defense rules. These days, it's much, much harder to pass the ball in to the post. Also, double teams come much faster. These days, weak side help defenders don't have to stay close to their man anymore. The only limitation to defensive spacing now is the three second limitation in the paint.

Before the rule changes, teams pretty much had to have a dominant post player to have a chance to win a championship. Not so much anymore.

Posted by: yop32 | July 19, 2009 2:08 PM
_____

Yep, exactly. The basic overall point I've been trying to make, which led to the Pau discussion. So, yop32 agrees with me P1funk. Debate must be over now...lol.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

"I do agree that he needs to do that more often. I think on certain nights he should get many more touches in the post called than he has ever gotten since he's been here."

But because of the size mismatch they can't really force feed him the ball on the post. He can only operate down there when he has a favorable defensive matchup, and that really isn't all that often.

"And on regarding AJ's "post" game, like everything else about his game it is pretty unorthodox and usually involves some kind of herky-jerky scoop shot. The kind of post-player we need is the kind that can draw double teams, anchor position, pass out of the post, etc."

The fact that his style is unorthodox doesn't really matter. What matters is that it's effective. As for drawing double-teams and kicking out . . . the fact that he doesn't operate down there very often and thus teams don't really game plan to take it away from him with a double team. They'll live with the occasional inside hoop or trip to the line from AJ if it prevents leaving Arenas (or, next season, Miller and Foye) wide open outside. Now, if he was living off a steady diet of post ups then opposing coaches would make it more of a point to get the ball out of his hands, which would facilitate the inside outside game. But, again, because of the size disadvantage, they Wiz can't really force that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 8:31 PM | Report abuse

"Before the rule changes, teams pretty much had to have a dominant post player to have a chance to win a championship. "

Except, as I recall, the argument was never that every team that's won a title since the Bulls had a dominant low post player. It was just that every team that's won one has had a "quality legit post-up guy that the offense can run through," which certainly isn't automatically the same thing as "dominant." No one said Gasol or Rasheed were dominant. But they were/are certainly quality post up guys in a way that no one on the Wiz has proven to be.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

EDIT:

Quoted the wrong thing the beginning of the previous post. This is what I meant to quote:

"I was just responding to the supposed need to have a dominant post player to win a NBA championship."

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 19, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Suns were never going to win a title, with or without suspension game. Wilbon is wrong about many things these days, most recently that Rubio is clearly going to be an nba superstar that we'll regret having passed on.
_____

First, it was widely assumed that the Suns were the team to beat that year and they looked like they had SA on the ropes (their nemesis) until the whole suspension fiasco. Much like it was widely assumed this year by most "experts" that the Lakers would win it all and they did.

The real point was that a non-traditional team without a dominant post player or even an interest in playing defense was very close to winning a championship. Perhaps, two controversial suspensions from doing such.

This is right about the time where p1funk is going to argue that that may be true, but Amare is a dominant post player! lmao

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Kal,

How do you get italicized font in here? Are you cutting and pasting in and out of Word or is a tool in here that I am not aware of? Just been curious about that...thx.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

To italicize something, just put an I in brackets at the beginning and a /I in brackets at the end. [I]Like so.[/I]

It's hard to take anything from the summer league games. Blatche was dominant last year, didn't mean a thing. But what I like about McGee's performance tonight more than anything was that he was 9-10 from the FT line.

Posted by: satchmore | July 19, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Of course the italics didn't work. My dumb luck.

Posted by: satchmore | July 19, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Watched the Knicks vs Wiz summer league game. Nice game for McGee-31 points , 8 rebounds and about 6-7 blocks. Jordan Hill looked pretty good for the Knicks as well. Tyreese Rice had a nice game for the Wiz -17 points.

Posted by: ptp23 | July 19, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ptp23 | July 19, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of free throws: McGuire should spend the rest of the summer just shooting from the line. He gets too many minutes to have that kind of FT percentage.

Posted by: satchmore | July 19, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

So much for Mr. Magic Mushrooms, btw. Obviously the Wizards have something else in mind.

Posted by: satchmore | July 19, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

"Speaking of free throws: McGuire should spend the rest of the summer just shooting from the line. He gets too many minutes to have that kind of FT percentage.Posted by: satchmore"

He shot 73% last year -- not too bad.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

"So much for Mr. Magic Mushrooms, btw. Obviously the Wizards have something else in mind.Posted by: satchmore"

Yeah, Grunfeld gave the opposite impression before the Summer League started. Still, Heytvelt looked good in camp and they may have given the extra time to players like Edwards and Aminu to see if there was something worth hanging on to.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2009 11:09 PM | Report abuse

[I] testing testing [/]

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

[I] testing testing [/I]

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 19, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Not brackets. Greater than and less than symbols.

Posted by: yop32 | July 19, 2009 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Italicized font

Take what I did and delete the periods, and you're golden.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

wow, that didn't work at all, haha. I guess the greater than and less than signs don't show up at all, even when you aren't trying to use them in html code.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 12:04 AM | Report abuse

doh!

Posted by: satchmore | July 20, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Larry, sorry, but there is zero chance that Critt starts this year. He has a lot of tools, but is at the very least a jump-shot away from regular playing time on this team.

And sorry rphilli721, I have to agree with the rest. Teams don't need a dominant post player, but teams do need a decent post option. Rasheed's move was a low-post jumper to either side. With his height and long arms, it was nearly impossible to block. Garnett is not a skilled low-post player, but was effective enough, athletic enough and smart enough to make it work on a team with great perimeter options. Gasol has jump hooks, turn-around J's, drives and turn and face moves from the low-block.

That's all you need. Someone who can score consistently against single coverage and pass out of double teams. The Cavs have Ilgauskas and now Shaq. Z is not a beast, but he's effective. Even the "no-post player" Bulls didn't win until they got Bill Cartwright. Certainly not aesthetically pleasing, but his awkward turnaround jumper was effective enough to keep the opposing center honest.

You are generally right though that post-play has been significantly de-emphasized, especially in the regular season. And teams do need players who can create / facilitate for others. But teams with championship aspirations have to have at least one player who can get high percentage shots near the basket for those times when the outside shots aren't falling, or the defense is closing out on shooters.

Posted by: ts35 | July 20, 2009 1:02 AM | Report abuse

"When he's rolling he's a legit superstar (despite what guys like 88 would have you believe). Hell, he came out last year for what was basically 2 exhibition games for his fans, didn't look particularly game-ready, and still managed to average a double-double (including an impressive 20/1 assist to turnover ratio.)

Posted by: Plix | July 18, 2009 12:18 PM "

Your argument is worthless. Even when he was a "superstar," he wasn't able to get Les BouleS into the second round of the playoffs since LH left.

Gilby has been out of commission for about 2.5 years. There's no guarantee what he can do now.

Also, your comment about 2 games and 20/1 ratio is hilarious. Whatever tickles your pickle.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2009 1:13 AM | Report abuse

It's funny.

The good pickins season for top free agents has long gone.

Les BouleS were going to wait until the end to pick whatever rotten fruit was left in the barrel.

Well, as it seems now, even the rotten fruit in the barrel want nothing to do with Les BouleS even if it gives a big man an opportunity with a lot of PT.

Oberto....who knows? If he wanted to be here, he'd be signed by now...bad ticker, 34 years, 2 mil easy money, and all.

CWilcox? Not a chance. Signed for more with a winner, Detroit.

Nesterovic? Wants to go to Toronto.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2009 1:18 AM | Report abuse

I don't see Foye starting. I see a lineup of Arenas Miller Butler Jamison and Haywood. I see what Ernie is going to do now. There will be no vet big man this year will depend on Blatche and Mcgee doing big work off the bench. He is hoping Miller can be our Hedo Turg.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 1:22 AM | Report abuse

"I don't see Foye starting. I see a lineup of Arenas Miller Butler Jamison and Haywood. I see what Ernie is going to do now. There will be no vet big man this year will depend on Blatche and Mcgee doing big work off the bench. He is hoping Miller can be our Hedo Turg.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 20, 2009 1:22 AM "

You'd figure with the 3rd highest salary in the league, that the word "hope" wouldn't be one of the words used to describe an organization.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2009 2:29 AM | Report abuse

You'd figure with the 3rd highest salary in the league, that the word "hope" wouldn't be one of the words used to describe an organization.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2009 2:29 AM

3rd highest salary in the league?

Check again teams are going by them like PF’s go by AJ. Some teams (Dallas) haven't even included all of their salaries?

Let's see.....

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

LA
Boston
Orlando
Cleveland
San Antonio

are willing to spend luxury cap money to try and win it all!

While CHEAP ABE will not spend a penny(trading the 1st round pick and selling the 2nd round pick) to try and win a championship.

Mybe people should think twice before sending your money to CHEAP ABE?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 19, 2009 2:48 PM

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 3:48 AM | Report abuse

Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, and San Antonio are going all-in because they have a window of only one or two years to win a championship. Boston, SA, and Orlando have key, irreplaceable pieces that are likely to start losing their potency due to age, injuries, and sheer volume of games played. Cleveland needs to win this year to try to prevent LeBron from bolting town.

LA is the exception, they're thinking dynasty. When you're basically the only game in town in one of the most lucrative markets, when you've been ridiculously lucky with a couple of late lottery picks of high schoolers (Kobe and Bynum), when you have one of the best big men in the league gift wrapped and handed over to you for nothing (Pau), you have that luxury. (On the other hand, Kobe has played a ton of basketball (even more than Duncan), and he depends heavily on his athleticism (like VC).)

The Wizards are hoping to have a window of two, three, or even four years. AJ may start to decline during that time, but probably less than Duncan or Vince Carter. Duncan because of all the extra playoff basketball he's put in over the years. Carter because he depends so heavily on his athleticism. AJ, on the other hand, has a lot less playoff games under his belt than TD, and his game is an old man's game based on guile, touch, and intelligence, not athleticism like VC.

EG is going to be patient and try to get a pitch to hit.

First up is the end of this year's free agent market. With a little luck, EG should be able to get a useful player- think of it as getting a man on base by being patient and drawing a walk.

At the trade deadline, we have Mike James' expiring contract to take a swing with. It's possible that a great player is available for expiring contracts--home run. But just getting a solid backup center would be equivalent to a double. Someone who has the size to defend the giants for a handful of minutes per half and get some points by running the floor and playing pick-and-roll.

Next summer, we have our exceptions to use. With the number of contenders that have blown their wads this year instead of waiting until 2010, and with the salary cap, luxury tax, and max salaries taking a (hopefully) short-term nose dive, we might be able to get a top free agent with a short term deal at the midlevel or even the biannual exception level. Homerun.

Posted by: yop32 | July 20, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Bulletsfan78, for every list of negatives, you know there is a list of positives.

So which list you think gonna be emphasized this year?

Let me see, Eddie and Ed is gone, and DSON, PECH, and ETON. That leaves me with better players and a new staff.

Me thinks the positives gets emphasis this year.

BullesFan78, if you think for one second, that those old negative ways of the past will be prevalent this year, then Ole' Chap', you are as stubborn as mizerly Ole' Abe as you claim.

In a nutshell 78, the Team has changed right before yo' very eyes and it is time for you to recognize it.

Keep up Ole Chap, cause this Team is movin' kinda' fast.

Dem negative comments was last years suit of clothes. We got a brand new suit of clothes this year and it is all positive.

Come with me 78, I know you don't want too, but ya' got too. The coffee is perculating, it is on baby, smell it 78.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 20, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

"Larry, sorry, but there is zero chance that Critt starts this year. He has a lot of tools, but is at the very least a jump-shot away from regular playing time on this team."

TS35,

A guy that is just as fast to the hoop as Gilbert and does not commit TO's always has a chance. But even if he does not start, I can see him at times logging minutes at the one while Gil is on the floor at the two.

You see TS35, he won't be on the floor to shoot no jump shot. He will be on the floor to Run the Ball, Swoop to Hoop, to set his Team up for the Run and Gun game. The first down the court Baby'.

Where his Team will be taking the Shots, Slammin, Layins, a Runnin' Offense, probably like you are not familiar with.

And in case you haven't realized it having JCrit shoot jumpshots is the least of our worries.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 20, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Come with me 78, I know you don't want too, but ya' got too. The coffee is perculating, it is on baby, smell it 78.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 20, 2009 8:07 AM

Larry,

Whatever you are spiking your coffee with I want some. There have been different coaches, GM's and players but the only thing that stays the same is Abe? After watching Abe run this team over the last 30 years, it gets to you as a fan.
yop32

You claim LA got lucky? They got Kobe by trading for him. They got Shaq by trading for him. Free Agents like Ron want to go there because they know the organization is determined to win, they aren’t happy by just making the playoffs. If I saw the commitment and dedication in any of these players that Kobe has I would agree with you the Wizards have a chance of winning a championship.

That’s why I wanted Abe to pay some cash to get a player like Wallace, because he has won a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

rphili,

Once again, I've said my schpeil and I've got nothing left to say on it.

You are free to continue living in your universe where the Wiz are pretty much like the Nuggets, where the Suns won a championship, where Pau Gasol and AJ pretty much have the same game, and where KG and Sheed aren't legit low-post guys.

My plan is to stay out here with the rest of the clear thinking people and have basketball discussions that are rational.

Posted by: p1funk | July 20, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

morning musings....

If Caron is having the subpar year this season that he did last year, with a new staff in place, at what point is his spot in jeopardy?

I hate to even type it, but Caron seriously regressed last season in my opinion. Became a spotty jump shooter who was turnover prone, rather than the all-star we saw the year before.

1)Why'd this happen?
2)Can it be fixed?
3)What should we expect from him this year?

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

"Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, and San Antonio are going all-in because they have a window of only one or two years to win a championship"

I think you're insane if you're putting Orlando in that category. They have a grand total of two players that are 30 years or older, one of which isn't a significant player. They have 3 all-stars under 30 years of age, their franchise center is only 23, and Carter will have a massive expiring contract following this season (paving the way for another major acquisition, via either trade or free agency when he expires). The one acquisition that sticks out in your mind is Vince Carter, but their other 3 offseason moves (retaining Gortat, signing Brandon Bass, and obtaining Ryan Anderson) gave them three more players at an average age of just over 23 years old.

Orlando isn't going away anytime soon, with or without Vince Carter.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Larry,

I hope Critt continues to get some minutes as well, because eventually I think he could be a very solid player. But a lot of the things you like him for, big PG, able to defend SGs but also handle the ball if paired in a backcourt with Gil, etc. Foye also does, does them better, and also has a jump shot, That actually is important for keeping defenses honest and floor spacing, even for a "running" team. This isn't AAU, or even Summer League, evnetually they have to run some halfcourt offense. Critt has showed some improvement in Summer League, but not enough to jump ahead of Foye.

I do really like Flip bringing in a guy like Sam Cassel though, and I think the young guys, especially guys like Critt will really benefit from his presence.

Posted by: ts35 | July 20, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Orlando is no lock for anything though. Hedo is gone and Rashard is old...those guys were absolutely key to their run.

They got to the Finals playing 3ball, that's an anamoly of the highest order and no guarantee you can go back to that well again.

DHoward becoming unstoppable within 10ft is the key to them being perennial contenders. He needs a short J and some moves to the left....unfortunately for us, no reason he can't develop all that quickly

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Divi3....hate to say it, because I like CB a lot, but it really felt like he mailed it in during parts of last season. He saw the team they had without Gil, Haywood, and in parts DeShawn, knew they had zero chance of going anywhere, and didn't give max effort every night.

Plus, while I generally like his game and think at his best he's a legit all-star, he's definitely not cut out to be the focus of an offense or the prime initiator. Even if Gil isn't 100% right this year, just having better players (better than the rest of the cast form last year) around him like Miller and Foye should help his game. We shall see.

PSPS23, I agree. Orlando is loading up now because they see an opportunity, but even if they don't get there in the next year or two, they will still be a force in the Eastern Conference for years, salary cap permitting.

Posted by: ts35 | July 20, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"I hate to even type it, but Caron seriously regressed last season in my opinion. Became a spotty jump shooter who was turnover prone, rather than the all-star we saw the year before."

Seriously regressed?

Caron's FG% dropped a total of .013 (.466 to .453) and his TOs jumped by .5 (2.6 to 3.1). On a severely down season for the entire team where he was forced to significantly take more pressure on himself (by virtue of having to pick up the slack of the missing competent veterans), his numbers only slightly dipped.

2007-2008: 20.3 ppg, 6.7 reb, 4.9 ast, .466 FG%, 2.6 TO
2008-2009: 20.8 ppg, 6.2 erb, 4.3 ast, .453 FG%, 3.1 TO

I'd hardly call that a 'serious regression' in a normal season, let alone one where he was asked to do much more with much less of a supporting cast.

In other words, there's no shot Butler's starting spot gets questioned, unless he turns into DeShawn Stevenson this season.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

No team in the East is a lock for anything.

That being said, Orlando has just as much chance as anybody. Turkoglu is gone, but the additions of Bass and Carter and the return to health of Nelson will make up for that (and probably improve on it). And Lewis will be 3 months past his 30th birthday when the season starts. That's not really "old" even by NBA standards.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

If Rashard Lewis is old, then Gilbert Arenas is aging, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood are old, Jamison is ancient, and the Wizards have already missed their time at any sort of run.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

ts35:

Caron looked out of sorts to me quite often last season, which was a disappointment given he had seemed on the cusp of being able to create his own shot with game on line the previous year. But like someone said, if his ceiling is legit all-star then his performance last season was not a sign of slippage on his part.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Interesting discussions...
my perspective after watching too many summer league games:
I have and continue to love NY's game..
he can create his own shots, and has "Pearl" like shake and bake moves at the whim.
AB has starred in this summer stuff before...
Too much one on one offense to be consistently effective for the whole team...
Dmac is the most over rated player on the team...does not bring much in the way of skill to the floor, and seems lost and non confident, even with all the play time last year...
Love AJ, a classy and talented big, with guaranteed results...
Not a big BH fan, but with good coaching is adequate, but still child like and not athletic or instinctive...
Go0d additions from the trade, and a tremendous upgrade for the entire team..
Tired of reading about the lack of bigs since the trade...we lost nothing in DS, ET and AP...they were incompetent and unskilled, and had no positions...
Am starting to really like the nakeup of this team, and with a real and succesful coaching staff, for a change, we could really have an enjoyable and surprising season...do not need any more weak front court pickups...
Be patient and enjoy...and yes Abe stands in the way for many years of Wiz success, but with EG still at the helm, possibilities still abound...

Posted by: mricklen | July 20, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

... but Caron seriously regressed last season in my opinion. Became a spotty jump shooter who was turnover prone, rather than the all-star we saw the year before.

1)Why'd this happen?
Being the focal point on offense means you get the other teams' best defender. Plus he played out of position all year and had to remake his game offensively. He's much more comfortable at the 3.

2)Can it be fixed?
I don't see why not with Gil back...especially if Mike Miller is the 2 guard spotting up and forcing someone to guard him

3)What should we expect from him this year?

I would think that a solid second banana year would be possible. Average defense and 18ppg with 6rpg sounds about right to me


If he does that, I would consider it to be a successful year for him.

Posted by: original_mark | July 20, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I thought Rashard was older than 30...maybe because he camped out beyond the arc hoisting 3s rather than slashing more like he used to.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I haven't seen any of the summer league games, so I can't comment on the factual accuracy of this:

"Dmac is the most over rated player on the team...does not bring much in the way of skill to the floor, and seems lost and non confident, even with all the play time last year..."

But I can say that, as a general rule, Summer League is mostly an exhibition showcase for guys who can fill up a box score. A dirty work/intangibles/utility guy like McGuire isn't going to impress much in such a forum because the nature of the competition in those games devalues what he's best at. That'll change once the games actually mean something and he's playing against guys who aren't more concerned with polishing their resumes than they are about winning.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

mricklen:

I was thinking mcguire's summer league production was disappointing. Yes the games dont mean much of anything...but you want your players to be able to dominate the floor at times the way NY, AB, and JM have all done. Doesnt mean they will in reg season, but it shows they are 'too good' for summer league.

Still, Dom played well quite a bit last year and in a role this year where he may have almost zero offensive burden on him- he could thrive as a rebounding/defending machine

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Bottom line is that minus a healthy Agent Zero, the Wiz will be .500 at best. We have a lot of eggs in his basket and I can see us winning 45-50 games in the East if he comes back at 80-90% of the old Agent Zero. Orlando is definitely not as strong minus Turkoglu and Alston, and adding Carter. Boston added Wallace but their "Big 4" will all be 32+ and played a minimum of 11 years each. They each have a lot of mileage on them and KG broke down last year. Cleveland has improved the most on paper, but how will team chemistry be effected by their most senior player (Z) having to share minutes with Shaq?

I say we give Ernie a pass until the season starts and see how the team blends together now that we've added some nice depth and our young players (AB, McGee, NY, McGuire) have a year more of experience. IF the team starts out strong and is near the top of the East, then we can hope to see a big midseason deal to move James and another player to get another veteran bigman.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 20, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Also, regarding Orlando:

Ultimately, in order to win a title, I think they're going to need to upgrade at the PG spot. Nelson is a solid player, but at the end of the day he's still a sub 6' scorer pretending to be a PG.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

2007-2008: 20.3 ppg, 6.7 reb, 4.9 ast, .466 FG%, 2.6 TO
2008-2009: 20.8 ppg, 6.2 erb, 4.3 ast, .453 FG%, 3.1 TO

I'd hardly call that a 'serious regression' in a normal season, let alone one where he was asked to do much more with much less of a supporting cast.

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 10:20 AM

I would have never guessed the stats were that close. Good perspective though.

I have to say though, CB did appear to do a lot worse this year than his numbers say. Hopefully he comes back stronger.

Posted by: crs-one | July 20, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Also, regarding Caron, it's interesting to note that he averaged 1.5 more free throw attempts per game last season as compared to the year before (increased from 4.5 to 6.0). Something to take into account when classifying him as a jump-shooter (as compared to what he was before).

Posted by: psps23 | July 20, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

mricklen: "Tired of reading about the lack of bigs since the trade...we lost nothing in DS, ET and AP...they were incompetent and unskilled, and had no positions..."

Songaila's the reverse of what you described. He's competent and skilled and plays more than one position, depending on the matchup. He's not the player he used to be, and the problem last year was that Tapscott put him in situations where he was physically overmatched, hoping that his skills would make up for it -- and sometimes they did. He's very good at annoying more talented players, and at making the interior passes that the offense requires.

I imagine they didn't want to lose him to Minnesota. Now it's time for Blatche and McGee to step up.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 20, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I love Dominic's game for this team. He does everything we need. With playing time, he's a threat to put up a five-by-five:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-by-five_(basketball)#Five-by-five

I'm really surprised that the "Greatest Career Five-by-Five (Using Career Highs)" is only a five-by-eight, at least as far as the people on Wikipedia have researched.

Also surprised that Dominic has never had more than four blocks or steals in a game. I thought he had put up some bigger numbers. Soon, probably, hopefully.

Posted by: yop32 | July 20, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

spending money just to spend money does not guarantee a championship, ask the Yankees. The fact of the matter is that only 1 team will win the championship. As currently constituted, a number of teams could win it if things fall into place for them and out of place for others.

Could the wizards win it? They have a chance if things fall into place. Will Dallas win it? Will San Antonio? Will Boston? Will the Lakers? Will Cleveland? Will Orlando? Will Atlanta? Will Washington? A lot of teams gonna be disappointed that they gave money away.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

"I have to say though, CB did appear to do a lot worse this year than his numbers say. Hopefully he comes back stronger.Posted by: crs-one"

Losing does make good players look worse than they really are. Think Kevin Garnett in Minnesota -- near the end, people actually questioned whether he was a selfish player. All based on the team's struggles.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 20, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

"I'd hardly call that a 'serious regression' in a normal season, let alone one where he was asked to do much more with much less of a supporting cast.

In other words, there's no shot Butler's starting spot gets questioned, unless he turns into DeShawn Stevenson this season." - psps23

I would agree. Last year we found out that Butler, as good as he is, is just not the 'Number 1' guy for an NBA team. Nothing wrong with that. There are few players that are. Hopefully now that we have two more legit shooters in Foye and Miller, Stevenson healthy, and Young finding his game, Butler won't feel the need to jack up a lot of 3pt shots or very long jumpers. That's just not his game. His game is slashing and cutting to the basket, then keeping defenders honest with is very solid 15 ft jump shots.

For me, the biggest worry was that he missed at least 15 games for the third season in a row.

Posted by: segastyle | July 20, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Could the wizards win it? They have a chance if things fall into place. Will Dallas win it? Will San Antonio? Will Boston? Will the Lakers? Will Cleveland? Will Orlando? Will Atlanta? Will Washington? A lot of teams gonna be disappointed that they gave money away.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 10:56 AM

G-Man11

check this out....

http://www.nsawins.com/vegas/nba-odds.shtml

Vegas has thr Wizards at 75-1 to win the championship. Compare that to the teams who have spent the money on players who can help them win. I think the guys in Vegas know what they are doing...are they always right? NO! But I would say a team that is 75-1 has no chance.

That's the problem with today's world, running a team like a business does not win championships. The owners who you say "gave money away" do not care about money, they want to win. If you asked Jerry Buss (LA) or Wyc Grousbeck (Bos)if they would trade their championships for 2.5 Million they would laugh at you.

Now go and ask Cheap Abe the same question...this off season answers that question. You really think EG wanted to trade the first round pick? No way..Abe told him not to add anymore money to the payroll!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan87, did Abe injure Gil's knee? Or did he offer him the MAXIMUM contract allowable?

Vegas odds are based on betting and nothing else. If "cheap abe" secretly placed $80,000,000 on the Wiz to win it, the odds would change overnight. Would you then say Wiz are a better team?

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Further about those odds, I will say wiz have a better shot than the Mavs at winning the whole thing.

The Mavs are maxed out in terms of talent, we know what they are when they play their best and are injury free. And it's not good enough to win the whole thing. Period.

Wiz are an unknown. Not only Gil being 100% or 85%, but even how he decides to play. Will he look to average 8 assists this year? That would be a whole new Gil, regardless of where his knee is.

Add to that a new coaching staff and roster shakeup and you get many unknowns.

We could be a 45 win team. We could be a 55 win team. Nobody really knows until this team plays.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan87, did Abe injure Gil's knee? Or did he offer him the MAXIMUM contract allowable?

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 11:51 AM

divi3

The reason Abe told EG to resign Gil and AJ was because they put fans in the seats and that makes Abe money. Did you notice they did not resign Roger Mason? No they signed Juan Dixon and saved 6 million.

Be honest who is the better player Roger or Juan?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Knicks and Wiz at equal probability to win it all next year? Houston, without Yao or Artest, 3.75x more likely to win it all?

bf78, are you willing to cover bets based on those odds?

Posted by: yop32 | July 20, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Jamison does more than put fans in seats, he's an extremely good player. Flat out great on many nights.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Wiz are an unknown.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 11:57 AM

Gee...I think I remember Gil choking at the line in the playoffs and this team never making it past the second round.

Why is Flip all of a sudden Phil Jackson? Did he win in Detroit when they had better talent than the Wizards? No!

I would love to see the Wizards win a championship and yes if Lebron and Howard get hurt and the Lakers plane crashes into Boston's then maybe the Wizards have a chance?

It's not that hard to see Abe makes his basketball decisions based on money versus winning a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

yop32

I would love to cover your bet if you are willing to be on the Knicks, the Wizards and/or Houston to win it all.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Jamison does more than put fans in seats, he's an extremely good player. Flat out great on many nights.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 12:07 PM

You save the word great for guys like Kobe, MJ, Larry and Magic...not AJ. The guy isn't even willing to play any "D"

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78, if the wizards were in position to win a championship- seems like you would be too busy harping on them until the moment they actually won it for you to enjoy the run.

But only if we'd have re-signed Roger Mason! Then we'd be champs. Uh-huh

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

bullets78

what business do you operate where you want to lose money? why do you expect Abe to want to lose money? It makes no sense. The reason Roger left was more to do with the timing of signing the contracts. You want Abe to sign who for how much and will they come to washington? Orberto was offered a contract, I hear. What is he waiting for? Is he waiting for a bigger contract or a chance to play withe LeBron or Kobe. Don't just blame the owners. There are players that chase rings too. Joe Smith got bought out last year and signed a cheap contract to ride LeBron last year. Washington is not getting that luxury. So I guess you want Abe to overpay somebody starter money who will get 3rd string minutes in Washington. That does not make sense.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

G-Man11

The problem is Abe is trying to compete with owners who don't care about losing money. Their ego's are bigger than their bank accounts and they want to win a championship.

Your right...we now live in a society where everyone on the teams gets to play and it doesn't matter if they aren't as talented. Are they the principles this country was built on? No, it use to be if you were "willing" to work hard then you can get what you want from life.

Now, it's lets reward the the people who aren't willing to work hard and take risks?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

So I guess you want Abe to overpay somebody starter money who will get 3rd string minutes in Washington. That does not make sense.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 12:18 PM

No you sign a guy like Wallace and sit Ab who isn't willing to work on his game.

Why don't great players want to come and play here? Maybe it's the owner....or maybe players don't want to play on a team where the point guard is going to throw up 25 shots a night and they won't get any touches?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

If DS is healthy to play, he will definately be a starter

"Vegas has thr Wizards at 75-1 to win the championship. Compare that to the teams who have spent the money on players who can help them win. I think the guys in Vegas know what they are doing...are they always right? NO! But I would say a team that is 75-1 has no chance"

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 11:40 AM

i wonder what were the Odds for Orlando going to the NBA finals over Boston and Cleveland, and...different sport(s) but I wonder what the "Odds" were when the rockies won the NL championship, or what were the Odds when Arizona out of all teams in the NFC won the NFC championship?

my point being that vegas cannot predict the future at all. Im guessing Boston and LA are favorites. But both teams are one blown Knee away from not getting that far at all.

and whoever said DS will be the starter for the upcoming season, are you kidding me? we didnt give up our #5 pick overall and three players to still have deshawn starting. Randy is Starting with Arenas in the backcourt. Nick young and Mike Miller are going to be a problem for other teams coming off the bench because both are capable starters. Critt is developing more and more and all Mcghee needs to do is do what he did the other night in the summer league. 31 pts 8 rebs 6 blocks..we can do without the 31 pts but the rebs and blocks is def what we need. As for blatche, he better start using his money to invest in some business' because he will be out the league soon if he doesnt condition his body and start dunking around the rim. No smart Ball club would go after a 6'11 guy that plays like earl boykins. and even earl boykins played with more heart and tenacity.

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 20, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Are we really basing the Wizards chances on Vegas lines?

What was the Tampa Bay Devil Rays odds when they went to the World Series? 600:1?

I bet the Suns had pretty good odds every season a couple years back. That definitely got it done for them.

Either we have the 4th highest payroll...or Abe is cheap. It's one or the other.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

bfan78- You contradict yourself when you blame Abe for not signing Wallace, but then claim he wouldnt want to come to a team where the pg throws up 25 shots a night.

Lots of vets are looking for rings and that's it. So teams like LA, Cle, and Bos have a built-in advantage over everyone else in the league.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Either we have the 4th highest payroll...or Abe is cheap. It's one or the other.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 12:33 PM

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

They are 8th but by the time other teams sign players and the site gets updated they will be in the middle of the pack.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

divi3

If you read the post there was a question mark at the end of the sentence, which makes it a question and not a statement.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

how many shots do LeBron take a game? how many does Kobe? Wade? NBA players recognize that Gil had nobody to pass to outside of Larry/Caron and Jamison, who have no problem with Gil and had excellent years playing with Agent0. The real problem is not Abe, it is this "if you can't beat them, join them" mentality that has developed in the league. If you want to blame Abe for players not thinking the wiz are the best of the best, go ahead. But you should acknowledge that if Agent0 had been healthy, who knows what could have happened. People who whine about Abe, Ernie, Gil, Jamison, Blatche, Nick, Haywood, JaVale, should not be wasting there time being a fan because they hate the whole team and they don't want to get sick about it. It was pre-injury to Gil where Wiz were the fancy of the town. I'd hate to see what would happen if Ovie got hurt.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Of the 7 teams in front of the Wizards...Utah is trying to dump Boozer, the Lakers won't pay Odom, the Celtics aren't paying Big Baby, and the Hornets have tried to give away Chandler. So what are you saying? Owners are just supposed to throw money around. So what the deal with that?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

"People who whine about Abe, Ernie, Gil, Jamison, Blatche, Nick, Haywood, JaVale, should not be wasting there time being a fan..."

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 12:44 PM

I've gone to almost every home game for years and love this team...but Blatche has been garbage for us. And I used to refer to Haywood as "Brenda" though I was thrilled to eat my words on that when he turned the corner a few years ago.

Some players deserve the scorn they get!

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Don't waste your time G...fans are fickle. That's just how it is. We were two LeBron travels away and maybe 2 free throws away from knocking off Cleveland with a less talented roster. Everybody forgot about Wade when he got hurt. The only way to shut people up is when they get on the court in November.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

divi3

I hear ya. It is fine to not like individual players on your favorite team. I didn't mean you. I meant the ones that always seem to not like everybody on the team. Some people can't be pleased at all. They come up with ridiculous nicknames like JaTravel for no reason but to get attention for themselves.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

"I would love to cover your bet if you are willing to be on the Knicks, the Wizards and/or Houston to win it all.
Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 12:10 PM

78, I'm going to have to pass. No offense, but I don't have strong faith in your ability to cover 75:1 odds. I'd be willing to forgo a couple of dinners with the family and fork over a couple of hundred, but I'm not convinced you have the $15,000 to cover your end of the bet if the Wiz somehow manage to luck into a championship next year.

How about we use those Vegas odds and come up with something that isn't such a long shot? I'll bet that the Wiz go farther in the playoffs next year than the Rockets. Based on the Vegas odds, you should be willing to put up $750 on Houston to balance my $200 on the Wiz. How about it, suc- ahem- friend? Or we can do 1:1, with me rooting for the Wiz and you pulling for the Knicks.

Posted by: yop32 | July 20, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Blatche hasn't been garbage. He could be better. He's slowly improving. He was a 2nd round pick out of HS..so he wasnt a Kobe, Garnett, J. O'Neal type of HS talent. What were Jermaine's first 4 years stats like? (I'm too lazy to look them up.)
And I would expect O'Neal's numbers to be better. He was way more talented.

People dislike Blatche because he flashes ability but it's not consistent. However, most people would take a big man in the 2nd round that gave you 10/5 and a block. Hell we took Kwame #1 overall and I doubt we got that much from him. We all expect more...but who ever expects anything from a 2nd round pick? Wasnt that the rationale behind taking Blair? Worth the risk? Well 10/5/1 isn't bad for someone you expect nothing from.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I say Blatche has been garbage because I cant point to even ONE area of his game that has really improved since he got here. Seems to be the same sometimey player he's always been, and doesnt appear to have gained much in the way of basketball iq.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

yop32

The bet was one of 3 teams winning a championship. I know some people in South Philly who will cover my action.

How much do you want to bet on the Wizards winning it all?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 20, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

His shot blocking has improved vsatly in my opinion. I think I read somewhere that that's the problem. He doesn't have one thing that they want him to focus on. Now he's trying to handle the ball, shoot jumpers, pass (he's a pretty good passer too), block shots and rebound every once in a while AND still have time to party more than I do.

If they could focus him on blocking shots and rebounding. And tell him NEVER put the ball on the ground...I'd be happy :)

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

To imply that Blatche has not improved in ONE area since his rookie year is misguided. He may have not improved to the extent he should have but he has improved. The area he needs to improve the most in is not physical though, it is mental.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Agreed on almost all counts, G-Man. Almost because, by most indications, he's once again shown up packing some extra pounds and out of condition.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully he will get his weight in order by training camp. I don't know how out of shape he is, haven't seen him so we have to go on reports from those who have seen him.

I do agree with him needing to grow up. This year the Wiz will need him, Nick and JaVale. The team didn't need them last year because last year was a joke. Time to get serious.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 20, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I am certain Javale will take AB's minutes at 4. AB is not going to be a good player for several years, if ever, and this team can't wait. Javale has shown much more in 1 season than Blatche has in 4, when you look at commitment to the team, effort, etc. And I suspect that rather than cut mcgee's minutes because haywood is back, we will see javale eat into minutes that are assumed for Blatche.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and the pictures I have seen do not look like AB is out of shape. I think the critique is that he's in the same shape he's always been, still yet to dedicate himself into looking like KG.

Posted by: divi3 | July 20, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

McGee showed more in 1 season than Blatche in 4?

Sure...you've gotta be kidding. JaVale might play with more energy...but it's like a dog chasing cars up and down the street. So misplaced. He's got a long way to go.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 20, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"Oh, and the pictures I have seen do not look like AB is out of shape. I think the critique is that he's in the same shape he's always been, still yet to dedicate himself into looking like KG"

You can't necessarily tell whether a guys in shape (particularly basketball shape) just by looking at him. All I know is that David Thorpe's Twitter reports on Blatche's first summer league game summer league made note of the fact that Blatch had "filled out naturally" and said that wasn't a good thing, which implies that he'd gotten bigger without really working out or adding muscle. And the first reports in the Post on his participation in summer league made multiple references to his need to improve his conditioning.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 20, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU wrote:
"but who ever expects anything from a 2nd round pick?"

I generally understand your point SDMDTSU, but after the draft, it's not so much about where you were taken as the ability you show once you're in the league. Gil was a second-round pick, and I'm sure the expectations weren't much to start with, but obviously he has raised that bar quite a bit. Blatche clearly has the talent and ability to be a good starting PF in this league...Height, athleticism, touch, skill.

I think the thing the frustrates most of us is not even so much the inconsistency or lack of basketball IQ. It's his apparent lack of seriousness in developing his game (which obviously contributes to the other two). The comparisons to Jermaine O'Neal are not entriely off-base, but I want to say that O'Neal was essentially buried on the Portland bench for his first three or four years, where Blatche has seen a decent amount of playing time, especially last year.

I think we'd all like to believe that if we were given Blatche's gifts, we would take them more seriously, but at the same time, he's still 22 (23?) and I'm sure a lot of us were still goobers at that age...heck, my girlfriend would argue I still am ;-). There's still time for that light bulb to go off for AB. Hopefully, if it does, he's still with the Wiz.

Posted by: ts35 | July 21, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Btw, not excusing his lack of seriousness because of his age, he's been in the league for four years. And we also have young men and women much younger than AB defending our country. Just saying that for some people it takes a while to click...while for others that click never comes.

Posted by: ts35 | July 21, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

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