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Wizards Take $4 Million Hit

I came across a very interesting article about the economic downturn and its impact on the NBA. CBSSports.com's Ken Berger explained how poor attendance around the league is influencing business decisions and free agency this summer.

The most interesting part of the article, as it related to the Wizards, was that gate receipts for the Wizards declined more than $4 million last season, which put them among the 10 worst teams behind Sacramento ($9.7 million), Toronto ($9.1 million), Los Angeles Clippers ($6.8 million) and Miami Heat ($5.3 million). Berger writes that Charlotte and Indiana also went down more than $4 million from the previous season.

The Wizards finished 21st in attendance last season averaging 16,612 fans, which was a dropoff from the season before when the Wizards ranked 15th at 17,962. Overall, the Wizards had 55,344 fewer fans walk through the turnstiles (about 1,350 per game).

The D.C. area has long been considered recession-proof, but that belief has been debunked with this latest decline. Reuters's Wendell Marsh recently wrote an article about how the nation's capital is really beginning to feel the pain.

It's easy to understand how tough economic times force people to cut back and pinch pennies, but is that all that is at work here with the Wizards? Or did the Wizards' horrendous 19-win campaign play a greater role in the team generating less profit from gate receipts than the year before? It probably was somewhere in the middle. If you look at the teams that saw a decline in gate receipts, only the Heat made it to the postseason (and Miami is known as being a great place to party, but a pretty poor sports town).

The upcoming season should be a pretty good test, because it doesn't appear that the economy is beginning to turn around, although the Wizards' fortunes on the court should be much improved with healthier and more talented players on the roster. Will it make a difference in this economy? We will see.



By Michael Lee  |  July 9, 2009; 3:56 PM ET
 
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Next: Wild and Crazy Offseason

Comments

1st!!??

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 9, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

DC is an event town. Only will support a winner(skins are the exception). Give it a couple more loosing seasons with the skins.

Take a look @ the capitals. Building was empty. Now its the hottest ticket in town. Why cause there a winning team

Posted by: smartfan | July 9, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I think there are enough people to support a winner, and with a healthy Arenas the Wizards will be winning and piling up the points.

I look for attendance to pick up notably.

Posted by: UltimateFootballNetwork | July 9, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

So, is Wizards now qualified as a "low revenue team" to receive extra $ from the league?

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-41/The-Silver-Lining-of-the-Salary-Cap-Cloud.html?post=true

Posted by: sagaliba | July 9, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

DC is an event town. Only will support a winner(skins are the exception). Give it a couple more loosing seasons with the skins.

Take a look @ the capitals. Building was empty. Now its the hottest ticket in town. Why cause there a winning team

Posted by: smartfan | July 9, 2009 4:24 PM

True dat...all the fans will be coming out if the Wiz atart hot and Agent Zero proves he's back to normal.

Posted by: PrisonBalls00 | July 9, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

You wrote about the possible free agent signings. What about the possible trade alternatives for an expiring contract (James) and/or and "expiring" player (DS)? Camby even after the Randolph trade? Who else is on the block that might fit the Wiz roster? thx

Posted by: rocky123 | July 9, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

Did you really need to ask why attendance was down last year?

Where are your journalistic instincts?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 9, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

oIt is a combo, but more because the team was just not that good. Also, the other team in the builing was doing pretty well and people paid to see them (GO CAPS) I hope all turns around this year, because this area will come to games if the quality on the court is good.

Posted by: CelticFCbhoys | July 9, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I think it was a combination of the Wizards poor play, the economy, and the focus on Presidential election.

Posted by: BillEmm | July 9, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

who was paying to see the wiz last year?

maybe early on in the season, but eddie's 1-11 start turned a lot of people off. from that point things got super worse. i was surprised to see fans in the stands when i would watch on tv. my only logical conclusion was that they had to be season ticket holders and underprivileged youths who were given free tix.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 9, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Home attendance is almost exclusively about wins. The teams that saw attendance declines were teams that had bad seasons or at least down ones. If the Wizards start winning, attendance will rebound.

Posted by: TheSecretWeapon | July 9, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

If we actually needed to do research to determine the cause for the decrease in attendance, compare this year with last year's over the course of the whole season.

I would guess that you would see the attendance for the first ten games close to on par with attendance last year.

After Jordan was fired (the first sign of a lost season), you'd have the differential start to increase, continuing to increase after you reach milestones (the all star break) as people started to *really* relinquish even far fetched hopes of watching a win.

I would say trends like that would point to the team's lack of success. But do we really need to go that far to figure out the reason?

Posted by: crs-one | July 9, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

I think the Wizards have a very good collection of talent, like any other team its gonna take great coaching and a lot of luck to reach the promised land.

Posted by: jpt1002 | July 9, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

If a team is losing, no one will show.

It's no accident that a number of the teams with the worst gate are the same ones with the worst record.

As far as the declines go in places like Miami -- the decline probably is do to more than just on the court performance. In DC though, most of it has to be connected to the way the team played.

Another part of the equation might be tighter lobbying rules which are supposed to limit gifts to politicians and their staff. Guys like Abramoff who invited political people to his sky-box now have to be a little more subtle in the way that they do business. Losing the business of guys like Abramoff is going to eat into the revenue of sport's teams in a city like Washington, DC. The lion's share is the on-the-court performance, followed by the economy, but all things being equal, the lobbying rule changes probably cost the Wiz 2 to 3 hundred thousands a year in revenue.

Posted by: JPRS | July 9, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I couldn't care less if the payroll is $200mil, but that's just not realistic, whether Abe is cheap or not.

So back to basketball, is Brandon Bass going to get an MLE, or could he be had for the 1.9 exemption? He'd be an upgrade off the bench. Or is there anything to offer for Tyson Chandler? Stevenson, James, and NY would save NO $12mil next year - and between Stevenson and NY, they may get a starting 2 in the deal. I'd even consider BTH and James.

Posted by: SnrFrijole | July 9, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Baby Lebron dunked at his camp and had Nike confiscate the video so it won't get a billion hits on YouTube. Does anyone have any video of Jordan getting dunked on? I can't ever remember it because Mike rarely jumped when he knew there was a posibility it could happen and don't talk about the Starks dunk, Mike was barely in that play. LeBron will continue to get dunked on because he goes for everything. At the end of the day, does it really matter. It's all about timing. Most of the time the guy dunking just beat the guy jumping into the air.

Posted by: ptp23 | July 9, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Washington basketball could be a hot ticket with all the lobbyists and highrollers in town and with a president who likes hoops; his loyalty to the Bulls could be divided if the the 'Zards become competitive.

Posted by: midlevex | July 9, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Mike didn't get dunked on, but they did do a serious job of trying to keep it quiet when a young Artest threw Jordan down and possibly broke one of his ribs during one of the famous runs at Grover's gym (I think it was Grover's gym) in Chicago. At least that was the rumor if I remember it correctly.

None of the stars like being embarrassed.

With the Wiz, the economy didn't help, but it was mainly because the team wasn't even competitve most nights.

Posted by: ts35 | July 9, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, it was Hoops the Gym, not Grover's gym.

Posted by: ts35 | July 9, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Says Grunfeld from today's post:

"If you do use the mid-level, it will cost you $10 million for that player. I don't think there is a $10 million player left out there in the marketplace," Grunfeld said. "We'll look around. We'd like to add another big man, but I don't see another big man coming and playing significant minutes for us, but someone who can come in and play a role for us."


Dead on. The idea that they should go out and spend $10 mill on a $5 mill player 9as some have suggested) is ridiculous because no $5 mill player (assuming there are any out there who are worth that) is going to make the difference between them winning and not winning a title. So spending twice as much to get such a player would be nuts.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 9, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Baby Lebron dunked at his camp and had Nike confiscate the video so it won't get a billion hits on YouTube. Does anyone have any video of Jordan getting dunked on? I can't ever remember it because Mike rarely jumped when he knew there was a posibility it could happen and don't talk about the Starks dunk, Mike was barely in that play. LeBron will continue to get dunked on because he goes for everything. At the end of the day, does it really matter. It's all about timing. Most of the time the guy dunking just beat the guy jumping into the air.

Posted by: ptp23 | July 9, 2009 6:19 PM

I think the beef most people have is that LeBron called the Nike marketing guy over after he was dunk on, AND THEN the video's were confiscated. It looks bad.

As for the drop in attendance, I was at most games and I can tell you it was a painful season to watch in person.

Posted by: Spikebones | July 9, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

"So spending twice as much to get such a player would be nuts."

I think it would be silly to wrap up a ton of cash into dudes the exact same as they just got rid of.

Besides I do expect the Wiz to add someone next year via the "big" free agent market. They should have enough cash to add a quality starter.

IMHO it's not this year, it's 100% next year. If they stink next year then it's time to blow things up.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 9, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

C'mon. Look what the Wiz did last year. Eddie J. got fired. They hired a guy who shouldn't be allowed to coach a house league team. They kept the more exciting players on the bench. Everytime they started to look good Tappy would figure out a way to lose. They won 19 games with supposedly 2 allstars. Oh did I mention they haven't improved that much this year because of the loyalty to the 2 allstars that would not sit and play the same position. WHY WOULD I PAY FOR THIS.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 9, 2009 8:31 PM | Report abuse

It looks like people are finally getting smarter and they aren't going to spend their hard earned money (so guys who would play the game for 1 million) to make players multi millionaires?

Think about it, what else would these guys be doing to make that kind of money. Bring back the 70’s where we didn’t have over priced spoiled jerks who didn’t don’t even know how to play the game.

All of you fans who like AJ and Gil, they wouldn’t even make a team’s roster back then if they weren’t willing to play “D”!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 9, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

oh come on. the fact that attendance only went down 1300 a game when the team was putridly bad and the local hockey team was amazing (and fun to watch) shows that this town gets hit by recessions less than others.

considering the on court product, the high ticket prices and the generally crappy in stadium experience we should be amazed that they averaged that many.

i like many others (and i consider myself a hard core fan) barely watched last season on tv. they were that bad. why would anyone have paid to see a team where only one or two guys clearly gave a damn (AJ and songaila) and with only two bright spot young players (mcguire and mcgee) to give us hope?

Posted by: PindarPushkin | July 9, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what will be the Les BouleS gimmick for this upcoming season. Surely not good basketball.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 9, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

agent zero healthy knees...gimpy arenas.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 9, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Dead on. The idea that they should go out and spend $10 mill on a $5 mill player 9as some have suggested) is ridiculous because no $5 mill player (assuming there are any out there who are worth that) is going to make the difference between them winning and not winning a title. So spending twice as much to get such a player would be nuts.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 9, 2009 8:00 PM

I'm sure Boston fans are happy you are running the Wizards and not the Celtics!

Signing Wallace put them over the cap but that organization cares about winning championships while this owner is happy with his one 30 years ago?

Kal,

You, Mike, Abe and EG must be the ones who voted it was the voted economy why the attendance was down.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 9, 2009 9:54 PM | Report abuse

"So spending twice as much to get such a player would be nuts."

How would that be the case when they got 2.5 from selling the 2nd round pick and 2,9 from the league for being under the salary cap last year. Ernie is full of you know what. They would only really be spending 5 million of their own money because they were given over 5 million from the league and the rockets combined.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 9, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Personally I won't see the Wizards this year unless they play one of the ELITE nba teams: Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Spurs, Mavericks, Cleveland or Denver.

Posted by: youngciscero | July 9, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure Boston fans are happy you are running the Wizards and not the Celtics!

Signing Wallace put them over the cap but that organization cares about winning championships while this owner is happy with his one 30 years ago?

Kal,

You, Mike, Abe and EG must be the ones who voted it was the voted economy why the attendance was down.

OK, but who's out there now not only worth the money but who will also put this team, as presently constructed, over the top? It's not like you're asking them to go out and spend on a superstar or fabulous role player who would turn the Wizards into a champion. So it's not worth it in the least.

Posted by: CDon | July 9, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, my comment started after the paragraph that ends, "... ecomony why the attendance is down."

My stuff starts with "OK ..."

Posted by: CDon | July 9, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Stevie Blake might be the odd man out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 9, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather have Blake as a starting PG than Hinrich. Hinrich is really a shooter/scorer. Blake is a guy who looks to get others involved first, which is what they need on a team with that many offensive weapons.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 9, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Who would Hinrich pass the ball to in Chicago? Ben alway wanted it in his hand to shoot off the dribble, Deng is always hurt and they have no low post threat. He is smart enough to know with Roy, Fernandez and Aldridge around he only needs to take the open shot.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 9, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

"The idea that they should go out and spend $10 mill on a $5 mill player 9as some have suggested) is ridiculous because no $5 mill player (assuming there are any out there who are worth that) is going to make the difference between them winning and not winning a title."

Well jeez, why even go through the motions then? You compile one of the top payrolls in the league, you're missing out on the benefit of being under the luxury tax, and you're already ready to throw in the towel?

Say the team pushed for Trevor Ariza, Ron Artest, Marcin Gortat, or Rasheed Wallace. I know there aren't any Kevin Garnett-level players in there, but you'd then be adding Gilbert Arenas, Brendan Haywood, one of the names above, Mike Miller, and Randy Foye to a largely young squad (from last season) that should reasonably be expected to improve all-around (with the exception of possibly Jamison -- who I wouldn't be particularly worried about).

I don't care if none of the guys above would have actually signed with the Wizards, but jeez, for them to not even make an attempt, and essentially decree that it isn't even an option, is downright disrespectful to the fans that have stayed loyal to this franchise. I've been supportive of this ownership and front office, but everything I've heard about how much this franchise is dedicated to producing a winner has turned out to be nothing more than propaganda to me. Is it wrong in any way? No. But I'm not going to pretend to be happy about it.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 12:09 AM | Report abuse

"But I'm not going to pretend to be happy about it."

Sorry, meant to say "I'm not going to pretend to be satisfied with it."

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

"Say the team pushed for Trevor Ariza, Ron Artest, Marcin Gortat, or Rasheed Wallace. I know there aren't any Kevin Garnett-level players in there, but you'd then be adding Gilbert Arenas, Brendan Haywood, one of the names above, Mike Miller, and Randy Foye to a largely young squad (from last season) that should reasonably be expected to improve all-around (with the exception of possibly Jamison -- who I wouldn't be particularly worried about)."

Unless one of those players is the missing piece to a title in the next 2-3 years (and they're not. Gortat? Seriously? Come on.) then there's really nothing to be gained from bloating the payroll even more to add them. Would they help the Wiz win a few more games in the regular season? Maybe. Would any of them be the difference between winning or losing a playoff series? Not likely. Even Artest, the best of the players on the list, would only be effective if he played big minutes, which he could only do if Butler or Jamison sat, so it's basically a break even deal.

Grunfeld made a shrewd deal to improve the talent on the team in the coming season. After that, depending on what they do with their various expiring contract, the team could potentially have the cap space to make some good moves in free agency next summer. There's no sense screwing that up just to make a deal that serves no big picture purpose other than giving the fans a few minutes of warm and fuzzy.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 12:34 AM | Report abuse

"Besides I do expect the Wiz to add someone next year via the "big" free agent market. They should have enough cash to add a quality starter."


If they renounce all of their expiring contracts (including, Miller, Haywood, Foye, and all of the Wiz kids), they could have as much as $22 mill in cap space. of course if they did that, they'd have to replace multiple players, including at least one starter and a couple of rotation guys.

If they renounce one of Miller or Haywood, re-sign the other to a deal starting in the $7-$8 mill range, they could have about $14-15 mill in cap space. That's enough to pick up the options on two or three of the Wiz kids (or keep Foye, who as a lottery pick has an option twice as big as any of the others and maybe one of the Wiz kids) and still go after a big-time FA.

That's not a bad job of setting the table for a GM that a lot of people like to claim doesn't know what he's doing.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 12:57 AM | Report abuse

"The idea that they should go out and spend $10 mill on a $5 mill player 9as some have suggested) is ridiculous because no $5 mill player (assuming there are any out there who are worth that) is going to make the difference between them winning and not winning a title. So spending twice as much to get such a player would be nuts." - kalo_rama

I agree, except for in one instance. If said player is young, and still an up and comer, or in his early prime, I'd rather us take the hit, money-wise, this upcoming year and have him for 3-4 more years after this than miss out on him completely.

Now, there aren't many players out there that fit that role. Milsap is probably the closest, in terms of bigs. Would I like us to sign him for both the combined exceptions totaling 7.5 mil? Yes. Unfortunately, we'd have to offer more than that.

Otherwise, I don't see anyone else, unless Bass is the Milsap type, and is about to blow up.

What I am somewhat disappointed in is the fact that we seem to be unwillingly to talk trades, especially if they involve Butler or Jamison.

I don't like the concept of 'filling holes' on a team unless that team is one series removed from the finals. Anything less, a team should be willing to give up one of it's best players in a trade that might make better 'whole team.'

Posted by: segastyle | July 10, 2009 12:59 AM | Report abuse

One caveat: All of the above calculations are based on the recently announced salary cap of $57.5 mill. If the cap goes down significantly next summer, the equation could change quite a bit.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

All they have given us is warm and fuzzy by dealing 2 draft picks for a reluctant 3 point shooter and a failed pg who is no better than Nick Young. Having Artest around and bringing Jamison off the bench would not be the worst thing in the world.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 10, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

Alright, say the primary basketball benefit of this decision is to provide flexibility next offseason.

Hypothetically, say that the Wizards end up with $15 million in cap space next offseason to spend on a FA (I'm too lazy to produce the actual expected numbers on this). Would a $15 million free agent be a greater addition than a $10 million free agent + Ron Artest? Is that extra $5 million really going to make their prospective move that much better than Artest + whatever else they could have gotten. At best, I think you'd struggle to find that.

And I don't buy that having Artest would be a break-even deal. Artest may take minutes from Butler at the 3, and they may be comparable talents, but Butler wouldn't necessarily sit. He'd simply move to the 2 for a portion of the game, and although he isn't as effective at that position as he is at the 3, it's still definitely an upgrade over anything else we'd have. The 3 may break even, but the 2 would produce a clear net gain.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 1:02 AM | Report abuse

"Would I like us to sign him for both the combined exceptions totaling 7.5 mil? Yes. Unfortunately, we'd have to offer more than that."

You'd also have to be able to combine the exceptions, which you cannot do under the NBA CBA rules.

"Would a $15 million free agent be a greater addition than a $10 million free agent + Ron Artest? Is that extra $5 million really going to make their prospective move that much better than Artest + whatever else they could have gotten. "

Clearly, that depends on who they sign, and we won't know that until it happens. But given how much pissing and moaning people have been doing about Grunfeld supposedly not even making the effort, those same people should at least appreciate the fact that he seems to be maneuvering the team into position to make a serious effort at making big move, not just a cosmetic one. Also, depending on how much space they free up and how, they could also be in position to trade for players who aren't FAs without having to give back any players in return. Having that kind of space creates loads of big picture possibilities more inviting than the short term benefits (and potential deficits) of acquiring a 30 year old Artest would likely result in.

As for Artest . . . Because of the tax penalty, signing Ron Artest to an MLE deal would cost them $11 mill this year before they even got to to the $10 mill FA. is Ron Artest really worth $11 mill? This year? I don't think so, esp. not on a team that already has a multiple All-Star player at his best position. With double digit salary cap space next season, however, if they sign a $10 mill player, they'll get (at least in theory) a player who's actually "worth" $10 mill. See the difference?

"At best, I think you'd struggle to find that."

I don't, simply because however good Ron Artest may be, he's not good at the positions the Wiz most need help, the inside power spots. He's basically become a jumpshooter offensively the last couple of years, and the Wizards aren't exactly crying out for that. They need power and presence up front. Artest doesn't provide that. So even if whatever player they get with whatever cap space they have next summer isn't ass "talented" or as "good" as Artest on a straight scale, that doesn't preclude the possibility that he )or they) would be a better fit, which is ultimately the more important factor.

"The 3 may break even, but the 2 would produce a clear net gain. "

Is that "net gain" worth $11 mill? I don't think so.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 2:21 AM | Report abuse

why not Amare if he is healthy? boozer is rumored in a sign & trade with portland and chicago. Lamar Odom (not that he would come here w/o getting paid to leave a repeat champion with him there) is still unsigned as well. it just irks me how this FO settles for mediocracy and no depth in the paint. my point is that there are players to be had and if you are this close to the best expected team you have ever had (as Wizards) why not attempt to strengthen your chances. SELL THE TEAM ABE!

Posted by: jenksredskins | July 10, 2009 2:40 AM | Report abuse

As for Artest . . . Because of the tax penalty, signing Ron Artest to an MLE deal would cost them $11 mill this year before they even got to to the $10 mill FA. is Ron Artest really worth $11 mill? This year?

Again how would he cost that much when the league gave the wizards 2.9 million for being under the cap and the wiz got 2.5 for selling the second round pick? He would have only cost us 5 million this year because of the figures from above

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 10, 2009 3:01 AM | Report abuse

Also Artest does not exactly address the need for a big but he scares the bejesus out of every swingman in this league with the exception of kobe and lebron so that in itself would be a welcome addition.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 10, 2009 3:04 AM | Report abuse

Mike didn't get dunked on, but they did do a serious job of trying to keep it quiet when a young Artest threw Jordan down and possibly broke one of his ribs during one of the famous runs at Grover's gym (I think it was Grover's gym) in Chicago. At least that was the rumor if I remember it correctly.

None of the stars like being embarrassed.

With the Wiz, the economy didn't help, but it was mainly because the team wasn't even competitve most nights.

Posted by: ts35 | July 9, 2009 6:56 PM

how are you gonna say he didnt get dunked when clearly on ESPN, they have jordan crawford aka Lebron's new poster talking about dunking on Lebron. Btw dont forget Courtney Lee dunked on him and so did Nick Young and both of those are on Youtube I promise you that.

Posted by: dontecurtis | July 10, 2009 3:05 AM | Report abuse

I wonder what will be the Les BouleS gimmick for this upcoming season. Surely not good basketball.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 9, 2009 9:18 PM

case and point of you being negative and showing a personal attack. Do you really need to being saying when they even havent played a single game or even finished modifying their roster? Like Mike said, "The Ignorant Comments Must Cease." What with this "Les BouleS" stuff. That is not necessary at all and I think pretty childish of you. I bet money on it that you wouldn't like people calling you outside of your name. Really man grow up and try to have a coke and a smile cause you need it bad.

Posted by: dontecurtis | July 10, 2009 3:10 AM | Report abuse

The economy and the awful play were two reasons ticket sales fell to be sure. Switching allegiances to the better managed and more exciting Capitals also stung, I imagine. However for me, who has been going to see awful Bullets/Wiz for 30 years, the reason I stopped going to as many games in person was because the team was dull as bones. Tapscott, despite a ruined season, refused to play the Mcgee and Young. Despite their flaws, they were at least fresh faces, fun to watch and had much to gain in their development by being on the floor. I got sick of watching Songalia's 1-inch vertical, Deshawn miss everything and make that dump hand-in-front-of-his-face movement when he'd make one of three, of Mike James do nothing, and no one playing a lick of D. There were the injuries left and right owing to us having perhaps the worst trainers/team physicians in the league. It was dull to watch our team get muscled in the paint night in and night out for yet another year, as well as the tedious perimeter pass & shot heavy Princeton offense. It was disheartening to watch PGs who couldn't shoot from the outside, nor drive creatively inside, while our power forwards refused to mix it up inside and our centers lacked the size to. Never have a turned off a Wiz game on TV, but I probably turned off about half the games at halftime. I don't think we'll be a great team this year, we might not even make the playoffs. I'm used to that. I just pray taht we aren't as dull.

Posted by: SammyT1 | July 10, 2009 5:11 AM | Report abuse

dontecurtis

I wonder what will be the Les BouleS gimmick for this upcoming season. Surely not good basketball.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 9, 2009 9:18 PM

case and point of you being negative and showing a personal attack.

This is not a personal attack, it may be negative to those who blindly follow the Wizards but just because someone doesn't buy into the PR spin the Wizards (on here Kal) put out doesn't mean it's personal.

Mike was refering to writing about someone's religon, which I agree is wrong.

Having class comes from within and sorry to tell you Mike, not everyone grasps that.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 10, 2009 6:34 AM | Report abuse

These are mute points, as neither Wallace or Artest were ever going to opt to join the Wiz. And these were the only two FA's who could have possibly been big enough difference makers to push the Wiz into the finals next year. EG is going to have to do it via trade or not all.

Also I do agree that EG is setting the table to begin break up the big three after next season if they dont make a serious run this coming year.

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 10, 2009 6:50 AM | Report abuse

All they have given us is warm and fuzzy by dealing 2 draft picks for a reluctant 3 point shooter and a failed pg who is no better than Nick Young. Having Artest around and bringing Jamison off the bench would not be the worst thing in the world.

I really hope you didn't say that Randy Foye isn't much better than Nick Young...I know we're all fans but come on...

If they renounce all of their expiring contracts (including, Miller, Haywood, Foye, and all of the Wiz kids), they could have as much as $22 mill in cap space. of course if they did that, they'd have to replace multiple players, including at least one starter and a couple of rotation guys.

If they renounce one of Miller or Haywood, re-sign the other to a deal starting in the $7-$8 mill range, they could have about $14-15 mill in cap space. That's enough to pick up the options on two or three of the Wiz kids (or keep Foye, who as a lottery pick has an option twice as big as any of the others and maybe one of the Wiz kids) and still go after a big-time FA.

That's not a bad job of setting the table for a GM that a lot of people like to claim doesn't know what he's doing.

I've been saying that for the longest, they have flexibility to make changes if things fail this year. Caron will even be in his last year so they'll be able to pay him or move him along ir they need to. The only two large salaries on the books past next season are Gil and Antawn. Even Antawn would only have 2 years left. There is money to pay the kids if need be, or make wholesale changes on the fly. Instead of blowing everything up and starting from scratch and winning 19 games for 3 or 4 more seasons in a row.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 7:59 AM | Report abuse

If I read the posts correctly, people on here are saying the Wizards don’t even believe they can make a championship run with the players EG has selected?

Why should fans support a team that has no desire to win a championship?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 10, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

I never said I don't believe they can make a championship run. Anything can happen. Just like Arenas, Stevenson, Haywood got hurt for us...it can happen to anyone. The talent is there. We'll have to see what system Flip uses and how it's implemented.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Considering the team the Wizards were putting on the floor most nights, the team should consider itself lucky the dropoff in attendance wasn't a much larger number

Posted by: wizardsfansince1970 | July 10, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

"I think there are enough people to support a winner, and with a healthy Arenas the Wizards will be winning and piling up the points.I look for attendance to pick up notably. Posted by: UltimateFootballNetwork"

I'm under the impression that a big chunk of attendance at most games comes from casual fans -- people that got tickets from a company or a buddy, or just decided to pick up a pair of seats for a night with the kid. In other words, not hard core followers by any means. So it's only natural they'd be far more interested in attending a game when the team's winning.

I'd be interested to know if the folks who post here attend many games...

Posted by: Samson151 | July 10, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Hey, Hey, LBJ!!!
Who's thrown it down on you today?

Posted by: mabkhar | July 10, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

You'd think LBJ would have learned from Nixon, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up!

Posted by: mabkhar | July 10, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

I think the Wizards are a very highly competitive team whe healthy. Injuries are to be expected but last season was just ridiculous.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Why would Ron Artest want to come to Washington? He's going to be thirty in a couple months and he's already on his fifth NBA club without a title. If you were Artest, where would you want to play? Not on a 19 win team, I wager. How many more chances does the guy expect to get?

I understand the Grizzlies are talking to Iverson (along with Miami).

Posted by: Samson151 | July 10, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

"These are [moot] points, as neither Wallace or Artest were ever going to opt to join the Wiz."

Posted by: oddjob2

Says who? A month ago, who here in their right mind predicted Hedo Turkoglu to the Raptors? Three months ago, who would have thought Amare loved DC? You never know where interest falls until you actually make the attempt.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Says who? A month ago, who here in their right mind predicted Hedo Turkoglu to the Raptors? Three months ago, who would have thought Amare loved DC? You never know where interest falls until you actually make the attempt.

Amare loves anybody that's willing to pay him. He doesn't love DC anymore than I would love Herpes. It's not hard to tell that Wallace or Artest weren't coming, nor could we afford them. I don't think they would be good fits anyway. Possibly Rasheed...but I dunno.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

These are mute points, as neither Wallace or Artest were ever going to opt to join the Wiz. And these were the only two FA's who could have possibly been big enough difference makers to push the Wiz into the finals next year. EG is going to have to do it via trade or not all.

Posted by: oddjob2

Exactly! The NBA has turned into the "If you can't beat them, join them scenario. "These players want to play for either LeBron, Kobe, Garnett, or Tim Duncan. Notice I didn't say play with, but play FOR. They only want to play for First team all NBA-ers or people who rank TOP 50 all time.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

"As for Artest . . . Because of the tax penalty, signing Ron Artest to an MLE deal would cost them $11 mill this year before they even got to to the $10 mill FA. is Ron Artest really worth $11 mill? This year?"

I see that as a flawed argument on two accounts. First, Artest (or whoever the MLE is) isn't costing $11 million. He'll cost $5-6, and the entire team will cost an extra $5-6 in luxury tax payments. The MLE would just happen to be the last piece added.

Secondly, it wouldn't just be this year that he makes the difference. It would be the next couple years, and he'd still be a great bargain a couple years down the road.

Beyond that, this reasoning is precisely what I'm talking about with regards to the propaganda being given out by the heads of the organization. Their primary focus, right now, seems to be the bottom line. It's not about a dedication to producing a winner. Is $11 million total a steep price to pay for one player, even a guy like Artest? Sure. But, in a basketball sense, it is not $11 million, it's $5-6. That extra $5-6 luxury tax payment isn't limiting anything the Wizards can or will do with their roster, now or in the future (unless he really is struggling financially and can't or won't be able to afford a full payroll, which I doubt). It's purely business rationale. Again, is it wrong? No. Just saying there's no shot, as a fan, I'm going to be satisfied with it, especially since he's already sold a future prospect once this offseason (and did so last offseason as well).

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

"just irks me how this FO settles for mediocracy and no depth in the paint. my point is that there are players to be had and if you are this close to the best expected team you have ever had (as Wizards) why not attempt to strengthen your chances"

Y'know, I don't recall hearing much about our serious and significant dearth of inside strength before the trade. Mostly I remember hearing people complain about our reliance on people like Songaila, Etan, and duds like Pech. In fact, wasn't there a steady drumbeat all last season to play Blatche and McGee ahead of those guys?

Well, looks like they're going to get their chance.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 10, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

"DC is an event town. Only will support a winner(skins are the exception)."

Skins are no longer the exception. They have been calling me every two weeks this offseason trying to get me to purchase more season tickets. They too are hurting.

DC will turn their backs on a really bad Skins team. A few years back when the Skins had only 5 wins late in December, I could not give a ticket away in the parking lot to a Skins/Dallas game.

Posted by: dominic10464 | July 10, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

This is crazy to me. People are talking about it's only 12 million dollars. This isn't monopoly money people...LOL

How you gonna be mad at that man not throwing 12 million dollars at a headcase that doesn't improve what the team needs (interior defense) What FA out there would actually help the Wizards? Milsap is about the only guy I see that would've helped and made sense but he's going to get paid way too much.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"at a headcase that doesn't improve what the team needs (interior defense)"

Doesn't improve what the team needs? We have a premier big-bodied perimeter defensive presence that shoots 40% from 3-point? Somebody that matches up with Lebron, Wade, VC, Turkoglu, Pierce, and Joe Johnson? Are you seriously attempting to indicate that we have no need for a player in that position? And for what, $5-6 million? Mike James makes more money than that.

Hey, if it's your goal to be a fan of Abe Pollin and hope that he financially profits at the cost of the betterment of this team, that's your prerogative. I prefer to analyze the basketball end of it.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

People are right this team played shut down "D" last year, so why try to get a guy that can play "D"?

We needed two guys from a team that couldn't win either to backup players whom either EG drafted that haven't panned out or we are going to play a 3 guard offense and play "small ball"?

How many wins did that get us last year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 10, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I live down in Richmond and make it a point to go to a couple of games a year, but with the quality of play last season, there was very little appeal to me to make the 90 minute each way drive.

Posted by: robmo35 | July 10, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't improve what the team needs? We have a premier big-bodied perimeter defensive presence that shoots 40% from 3-point? Somebody that matches up with Lebron, Wade, VC, Turkoglu, Pierce, and Joe Johnson? Are you seriously attempting to indicate that we have no need for a player in that position? And for what, $5-6 million? Mike James makes more money than that.

Hey, if it's your goal to be a fan of Abe Pollin and hope that he financially profits at the cost of the betterment of this team, that's your prerogative. I prefer to analyze the basketball end of it.

Artest can also destroy a team, it's a 50/50 chance on that. Are you willing to take that? And no, I don't think the Wizards needed to sign another SF. We got enough damn near 40% 3pt. shooters. Caron, Miller, McGuire, Artest. That's 4 SF's in addition to the Arenas, Foye, Stevenson, Young, James, Critt. That's 10 players. You can carry 12 per game.

Are you really thinking in the basketball sense? Once againg Artest was NOT coming here.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

If I read the posts correctly, people on here are saying the Wizards don’t even believe they can make a championship run with the players EG has selected?

Why should fans support a team that has no desire to win a championship?


Posted by: bulletsfan78

Can you please tell me why - since you despise the team so badly- you live on this blog?

Seriously, all you and DCMan do is spew venom and if you hate them that badly and feel there is no hope why not find a team you can support or just not comment? Makes no sense to practically live on a blog of a team you so obviously despise.


Posted by: Lisa_R | July 10, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

it's fuuny how the ecuses change as the days pass and the wiz are idle. at first folks thought there was a huge list of potential FAs ( Sheed,Booz,Varejo,Gooden etc) to chase after since they didn't draft . now since our cap is screwed ( not due to any offseason activity) and "Not Cheap" Abe won't spend over the tax, there's only 1 guy who fits our team. realistically, there is no shot at milsap. he'll get the full MLE if not more from someone. Milsap is a young starting caliber PF with Barkley's heart and a serious motor. he plays on both sides of the court, an i think he's a real difference maker if we could get him.

so i agree with u SDM. milsap wouls be a great addition to this team that i think would he could really be a diff. maker. that beinf said, it's sad that we prolly won't offer him.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I was surpised at the number of fans they did average last year. As bad as they were coached and played, the numbers should have been less than 10,000.

But this is the WashMetArea and the sheer numbers along with a little interest kept the attendance from falling too low.

For all of you that keep saying that the Org, makes decisions to feel seats you are right and wrong, but more wrong. It is wise for all Org's to make decisions that generate capital, in this case fill seats.

However, with the sheer makeup of the WashMetArea, it would be hard not to get or screw up attendance.

So, you would have to argue more appropriately that this Org' has made decisions to win and not to fill seats.

These decisions in a lot of cases have been bad, for, you might argue that the resigning of Etan Thomas was clearly not made to fill seats but a bad decision to win.

The resigning of GA and AJ was from a desire to win and carried the added benefit of filling seats. GA' presence though hurt still add's value, controversy, curiousity, and excitement to the Team. AJ, though cannot carry the Team, is admirable and credible despite what many of you say about him.

This Team last year, though playing badly, was at least an average night out in this Town.

So definitely, it was the bad play that brought the attendance down, but on the other hand it is the makeup of Team that kept it from being significantly less.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 10, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Boozer isn't a FA. Varajeo just got $60 million...are you serious? Big men are grossly overpaid. Gooden is still there and we weren't getting Sheed anyway. Teams are going to teams they think are guaranteed contenders.

Unfortunately it rarely works that way. Every team that has made changes also added more questions in my mind.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

all these FAs, no offers????? EG knows what the team needs and on a lesser level, what the fans want. an offer would at least let people think that EG is trying to make this team a real contender. remember how amped we got when the STAT rumors started. even the miller/foye trade was viewed by most people (not I) as a big splash and a move that made the wiz contendeders. Since then all we've had to tlak about is the big moves other teams have made and whether or not the wiz can compete with them.

I used to pay to see the wiz, back when they first got back to the playoffs. that team was exciting. it's sad to say, but these wiz amp u up to let u down. injuries or not, this team isn't built to win a championship. i'll be the happiest apologist on the net if they win it all this year, but is that gonna happen ?

When Bos went from worst to first with the 26 gm turnaround, they added an allstar/hall of famer/all defensive player/ league MVP PF( Tha Ticket), an all star SG(Ray Ray) , and a future all star PG(Rondo) and several young bigs(Powe+Big Baby). Have we upgraded that much?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

"Caron, Miller, McGuire, Artest. That's 4 SF's in addition to the Arenas, Foye, Stevenson, Young, James, Critt. That's 10 players. You can carry 12 per game."

I must say, James and Stevenson are truly irreplaceable players out there, let alone Crittenton, Nick Young, Dominic McGuire. Negligible differences between those guys and Artest. No way they can sit. This team couldn't afford it if they weren't all dressed on a nightly basis. And lord knows every player above is an 82-game presence.

Maybe in our title run, we'll sub offense/defense every possession between Nick Young and Dominic Mcguire.

Maybe you're right. This team is clearly better off as is rather than adding a player like Artest (or Ariza, or Wallace, or Gortat, or...). Much better off this way. Gosh, if people had just been listening to me complain, you'd have thought this team was coming off a 19-win season or something.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Stevie Blake is a very good backup (and a borderline starting) PG. Too bad at that time we couldn't wait for Blake to develop and signed AD to a big contract, which prompted Blake's departure because he did not want to be the 3rd PG on the team.

About the luxury tax, even though I tend to agree that it is not smart to spend 10M signing a 5M guy, but almost every team is doing that right now. It is apparent they feel that you have to do that to be a contender.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 10, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

i feel ya SD, it's just that there's a whole lot of questions surrounding my favorite 19 win NBA team as well. Taht's my gripe. Have we addressed the need of a defensive minded rebounding big to play tough in the post when jamison or haywood come out. The wiz have a bad injury history, AJ's been hurt before. What if he goes down, god forbid? I want to be positive about my hometeam. I never root for other teams until it's playoff time and the wiz are watching the finals in the club with me. Are people satisfied with the wiz offseason? Do we not need a def minded, board cleaning big? has that not been a questionmark since the season ended?when will it be addresed?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Boston went all in for a 2 year window. Rondo and Powe were already there. They gave up the future for now. It's going to be very ugly for the Celtics in about 2 years. TRUST. Rondo is good as gone. Pierce, KG, Allen and Wallace are old and it's not much on the team outside of that. Powe could be just about done and Big Baby is good for spots...but he's probably at his ceiling.

Tell me where a hall of famer, all-star, and future all-star are to be had for basically nothing. All the Celtics basically gave up was Al Jefferson. Even though he is a beast.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

San Antonio has won four titles in the last 10 years. Their front office has done a great job with the draft and free agency and the results are the 4 Larry O trophies in the trophy case. If the took a chance on blair, with nothing to lose, why couldn't the wiz? he may get hurt, but he's not gonna be an extra 2-5 mil against the cap either. i hope these summer league cats are legit

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I must say, James and Stevenson are truly irreplaceable players out there, let alone Crittenton, Nick Young, Dominic McGuire. Negligible differences between those guys and Artest. No way they can sit. This team couldn't afford it if they weren't all dressed on a nightly basis. And lord knows every player above is an 82-game presence.

Maybe in our title run, we'll sub offense/defense every possession between Nick Young and Dominic Mcguire.

Maybe you're right. This team is clearly better off as is rather than adding a player like Artest (or Ariza, or Wallace, or Gortat, or...). Much better off this way. Gosh, if people had just been listening to me complain, you'd have thought this team was coming off a 19-win season or something.


They're not irrereplaceable, but they are on the roster. With salary. There is no X button to release and they come off the cap. Once again, Ariza, Artest, WERE NOT COMING TO A 19-WIN TEAM. I think they're all overpaid anyway. What has Gortat done to warrant his contract? Ariza had a good month and got $33 million. Yeah I'll pass. What happens next year when Haywood comes up? And you got a $30 million dollar Ariza on your books? or a $30 million Gortat (who I think is going to flop.) THIS IS NOT MONOPOLY.

Hollywood I feel you. The season starts in November. It's July. James, is moving on. Let's see what Ernie does. We don't know who we're getting but we're adding someone. Jamison is the most durable out of the bunch, but we're thin. Everybody knows that. They have 4 months people.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Where is this cap space for free agents that you all are talking about coming from? For the 2010-2011 season, we are committed to paying the salaries of Gilbert, Caron, Antawn, DeShawn, and Andray. That's $49 million already. With the 2010-2011 cap projected to drop to between $50.4 million and $53.6 million, we won't have much cap space to work with, even if we don't re-sign anyone and resign ourselves to filling out our roster with minimum salary scrubs. Our only tools available to improve this team are the draft, the midlevel-, biannual-, and minimum-player-exceptions, and especially trades.

With the luxury tax threshold and salary cap both projected to decrease, the value of our expiring contracts could go through the roof. The right course of action for right now is to wait and see what happens as the trade deadline approaches. At the trade deadline, maybe we can pick up a Nene or Biedrins in exchange for expiring contracts.

Posted by: yop32 | July 10, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Artest vs. Aj or Cb a 'break even deal'?

Hardly. One plays great defense while the other two play poor defense. That's 2 steps up. Great, average, and poor. If (as most folks here but Larry believe) defense is the key to this team winning more games, then Artest would have been worth a few more W's.

It's a moot point but a CB for Artest deal could have, in my opinion, accounted for at least 5 more wins. At least.

Posted by: original_mark | July 10, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Guys, here's a thought. Mike James, DSteve, & Nick Young for Richard Hamilton?

Posted by: Gooddad | July 10, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

or should I say 'MUTE' point?

Posted by: original_mark | July 10, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"When Bos went from worst to first with the 26 gm turnaround, they added an allstar/hall of famer/all defensive player/ league MVP PF( Tha Ticket), an all star SG(Ray Ray) , and a future all star PG(Rondo) and several young bigs(Powe+Big Baby). Have we upgraded that much?"

The aforesaid might be a credible comparison, except for this Wizard Team has added JC, Miller, Foye, Haywood, Arenas, Stevenson, and gotton rid of Pech, Thomas, and Songaila.

Miller and Foye and possibly Crit are really the only new guys.

Thus, even though we played badly last year we were not in the depth of player personnel as Boston was.

Last year our greatest nemisis was injury/coaching, not PERSONNEL.

This Team right now will be playing with Boston and not trying to catch them. Boston, Cleveland, Orlando(though they have some issues w/personnel now) and guess who's next, YES! THESE WASHINGTON WIZARDS.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 10, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

San Antonio has won four titles in the last 10 years. Their front office has done a great job with the draft and free agency and the results are the 4 Larry O trophies in the trophy case. If the took a chance on blair, with nothing to lose, why couldn't the wiz? he may get hurt, but he's not gonna be an extra 2-5 mil against the cap either. i hope these summer league cats are legit

Even the Spurs lucked up. A David Robinson injury in a year where one of the best big men in history comes out and a playoff team gets a Hall of Famer.

Our best player gets hurt in a year with a possible hall of famer and a weak draft and we get #5...LOL

The Spurs had the luxury of being stacked and taking risks on overseas players because they didn't need them. Drafting Ginobili and waiting 3 years. Luck plays a huge part in success. I'm willing to bet most of the players they draft DON'T pan out.

The Spurs have Tim Duncan. They can draft a 6'5'' PF with no vertical.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Hamilton at $34 million? No thanks.
besides why would Detroit make that deal?

Artest's defense may be worth 5 more wins. Or he explodes and destroys the whole season.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

We need to do nothing right now. If there is an injury, add a cheap guy like Lang or (insert DLeaguer here). Until then, save your money, Abe. There will always be a big stiff we can add in case of an emergency. It just makes no sense to me for Abe to pay big $$ for a third stringer who will in all likelihood not play.
If BTH goes down, we're pretty much screwed anyway...at least defensively unless Flip devises a defense that somehow showcases that talents of 7 foot 220 pound Centers.

Posted by: original_mark | July 10, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

San Antonio has won four titles in the last 10 years. Their front office has done a great job with the draft and free agency and the results are the 4 Larry O trophies in the trophy case. If the took a chance on blair, with nothing to lose, why couldn't the wiz? he may get hurt, but he's not gonna be an extra 2-5 mil against the cap either.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 10:43 AM

We've seen this movie before. The Wizards and Cheap Abe had a chance to A) add a young power forward (D. Blair) who would possibly be a building block for the future; or B) collect $2.5 million in cash. My dog could tell you which choice Cheap Abe took!!! When it comes to winning vs. making money, Abe's choice is clear EVERY TIME! Again, running a professional sports team in this day and time is not about making enough money to buy your next yacht! The franchise owner's motivation should be about WINNING! Dallas is fortunate to have an owner who chooses puruit of championships OVER the pursuit of needed money. Washington does not have that kind of owner--and it is frustrating for serious fans here who would like to see the Wizard franchise make a serious push for title--in our lifetime. But surely Cheap Abe and his chosen GM of the moment will continue to "play" the fans of the Wizards with their continuous whining about money, cost of this and cost of that, etc., etc. and nothing will change as long as fans keep giving their hard-earned money to Cheap Abe at the gate. If the choosing of $2.5 million OVER DeJaun Blair doesn't bring that message home for you...you're not dealing in reality.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"Once again, Ariza, Artest, WERE NOT COMING TO A 19-WIN TEAM."

Once again, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. I don't care whether or not they actually would have gotten these players (which, again, you don't have a clue either way as to how these players felt about DC or this team). It's the principle behind dedicating yourself to producing a winner vs. dedicating yourself to make a profit and/or cut losses. The team is CLEARLY not operating with a primary focus on producing the best possible basketball product. There are no questions about that. You don't sell a player for cash, completely disregard a $5-6 million option of possibly adding any one of multiple pieces that would help this team (including one all-star caliber player and another former all-star), and then fool yourself into thinking "we want to win more than anything else." That's beyond delusional.

And if the team is setting itself up for the future, attempting to provide itself with cap flexibility in the upcoming offseason or offseasons, you don't trade a top 5 draft pick WITH an expiring contract. Again, backwards logic.

So either the team is setting itself up for a run now, but isn't willing to pull out all the stops in order to produce a winner -- or it's setting itself up to produce a winner sometime down the road, but is giving away prospects for cash and one-year rentals as its long-term expensive core continues to age out of its prime.

Either way, it's not sound basketball operation.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

If u call abe cheap be prepared for folks to tell u how he built downtown from scratch and runs the phonebooth as a charity for the peeps of DC.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Everyone who is dumping on Abe Pollin and EG for not spending more should go away and root for the Knicks and Yankees instead. Our team is doing it the right way, and we should be proud of that.

Posted by: yop32 | July 10, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The Boozer-Hinrich/Thomas deal will put Portland to the top 3 of the Western Conf. I've been a fan of Kirk, he's tough, play great D and will keep opponent honest and he can shoot the ball well. Plus his passing and play making is very much underrated. One of the top 7 PG in the league IMO just behing DW, CP, RR and GA. Speaking of trades, I'm still not convince that EG is already satisfied with the line-up, I believe he'll pull another trade before the start of the season.

Posted by: Dave381 | July 10, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

We need to do nothing right now. If there is an injury, add a cheap guy like Lang or (insert DLeaguer here). Until then, save your money, Abe. There will always be a big stiff we can add in case of an emergency. It just makes no sense to me for Abe to pay big $$ for a third stringer who will in all likelihood not play.

Posted by: original_mark | July 10, 2009 11:03 AM

You must be Abe!! This is the kind of thinking that keeps the Wizard out of the championship hunt. Man if you're gonna "pay big $$ for a third stringer" you have no business being a GM in the NBA! Second round picks however don't make "big $$" in the NBA if that's who you're referring to. Trust me, if this team adds a rebounder, HE WILL PLAY.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Once again, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. I don't care whether or not they actually would have gotten these players (which, again, you don't have a clue either way as to how these players felt about DC or this team). It's the principle behind dedicating yourself to producing a winner vs. dedicating yourself to make a profit and/or cut losses. The team is CLEARLY not operating with a primary focus on producing the best possible basketball product. There are no questions about that. You don't sell a player for cash, completely disregard a $5-6 million option of possibly adding any one of multiple pieces that would help this team (including one all-star caliber player and another former all-star), and then fool yourself into thinking "we want to win more than anything else." That's beyond delusional.

And if the team is setting itself up for the future, attempting to provide itself with cap flexibility in the upcoming offseason or offseasons, you don't trade a top 5 draft pick WITH an expiring contract. Again, backwards logic.

So either the team is setting itself up for a run now, but isn't willing to pull out all the stops in order to produce a winner -- or it's setting itself up to produce a winner sometime down the road, but is giving away prospects for cash and one-year rentals as its long-term expensive core continues to age out of its prime.

Either way, it's not sound basketball operation.

Find me where a 30+ year old championship winning player went to a team seen as re-building.

You clearly know to run a team on association mode of NBA Live but cool...you go it homie.

So how do you know Ernie didn't contact these players we didn't go after? Because it's not on a rumor page? Be serious.

Rasheed is getting old. Why take the same money to come to Washington instead of going to Boston?

You people are dillusional sometimes.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

why would we want to be like the yankees? they've only won 5 championships since we won our first. good one yop

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Says Grunfeld from today's post:

"If you do use the mid-level, it will cost you $10 million for that player. I don't think there is a $10 million player left out there in the marketplace," Grunfeld said. "We'll look around. We'd like to add another big man, but I don't see another big man coming and playing significant minutes for us, but someone who can come in and play a role for us."


Dead on. The idea that they should go out and spend $10 mill on a $5 mill player 9as some have suggested) is ridiculous because no $5 mill player (assuming there are any out there who are worth that) is going to make the difference between them winning and not winning a title. So spending twice as much to get such a player would be nuts.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 9, 2009 8:00 PM

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT--EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES. BECAUSE OF THE LUXURY PENALTY, YOU'RE GOING TO CHARACTERIZE ANY POTENTIAL SIGNING AT THE MLE AS PAYING DOUBLE FOR THE PLAYER?? WITH THAT KIND OF REASONING THIS TEAM WILL NEVER, EVER COMPETE ON THE BIG STAGE IN THE NBA!! Abe is always looking for reasons to keep his money in his pocket!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

"Our team is doing it the right way, and we should be proud of that.

Posted by: yop32"

Riiight. Three out of our last 5 draft picks never set foot in a Wizard's uniform. Two of them gave nothing in return other than straight cash, which adds nothing to the product on the court. The other, a top 5 selection no less, was traded for one expiring contract and another potentially expiring deal. That's the "right way" to do it.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, the Yankees win championships, but they're evil. Simmons at ESPN puts it this way: "Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for the house in blackjack."

Posted by: yop32 | July 10, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Rasheed is getting old. Why take the same money to come to Washington instead of going to Boston?

SD, I think that is the point u r missing. why would any FA come to washigton if there are so many other options. If people who actually play pro basketball for a living, don't wanna do it here, there's a reason. And if they go to a team deemed championship ready, then what are we?

BTW i look for info about wiz moves on wiz insider not the rumors page (where can i find that?). if there's no news of a contract offer, it's usually cuz there ain't one.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Wouldn't a trade with the Bobcats make sense? They seem to have a bunch of bench warming centers buried behind Okefor who would sit comfortably on our bench in case of injuries to our bigs. They seem to need some guard depth which we can afford to give up.

Posted by: jon_quest | July 10, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Everyone who is dumping on Abe Pollin and EG for not spending more should go away and root for the Knicks and Yankees instead. Our team is doing it the right way, and we should be proud of that.

Posted by: yop32 | July 10, 2009 11:18 AM

I'm dumping on Abe because his overall goal is to make money on his NBA team rather than attempt to win an NBA championship. Then they fraudulently sell their actions to the fans as the pursuit of winning (thinking that we're all bozos) to keep you and I forking over cash at the gate. That irritates me to no end!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

There aren't alot of options. Rasheed took LESS money to go to Boston. The Wizards are a 2nd tier team trying to get where Boston is.

We could take the Knicks approach and sign everybody but that's real effective. Yeah I sure saw the Foye/Miller trade on Wiz Insider before it happened. Just like everybody saw Artest going to the Lakers.

Just because you don't read it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

"Find me where a 30+ year old championship winning player went to a team seen as re-building."

You mean besides Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen? Or Elton Brand to Philly (not championship player - but definitely all-star caliber, and he was 29, same age as Artest)? Or Baron Davis to the Clippers?

"So how do you know Ernie didn't contact these players we didn't go after? Because it's not on a rumor page? Be serious."

Right, because the franchise's goal is to seem frugal at all times, wishing to do all big-money interests and negotiations in complete secrecy so the fans never suspect they're trying to improve. That's what will get a struggling fan base in a good mood.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I wonder where this never ending well of money you people think exists is. I'd sure like to get there. How much do you think Abe Pollin is worth? LOL...Half of us won't ever see $1 million and we're mad because a owner won't sign some magical player that doesn't exist to win us a championship for 11 million. LOL

I love this blog.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Winning a championship because you outspent everyone else is lame. It only means something if you get there as a result of a combination of hard work, intelligence, guile, and luck.

(And if you get the luck, it's really, really extra despicable to win just by combining that luck with huge dollars. For example if you build a team with the highest payroll in the league after you luck out and get Pau Gasol for nothing. Or if you win the lottery for LeBron then go way over the luxury tax to try to win a title.)

Posted by: yop32 | July 10, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

evil shmeevil. they ain't killin babies, molestin kids, or abusin the elderly so get over your yankee hate, they win.

on the whole idea of a 10 mil player not being out there, EG is full of it. u pay the player 5 and u pay 5 for your personnel decisions. it seems slightly disingenous (sorry) to spin it like he did. YOU paid out contracts that put YOUR team over the tax limit EG. It's plenty of 5 mil players out there, he makes it seem like someone has tied his hands, or that there are no valuable FAs. Furthermore, if this is a win now team is Millsap not worth 10 mil this year and 5 mil for the rest of the contract? We'd have a solid 4 backup for AJ, and we have McGee if we can't get haywood bakc after the season. you're already taking the cap hit EG.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Guys, here's a thought. Mike James, DSteve, & Nick Young for Richard Hamilton?

Posted by: Gooddad | July 10, 2009 10:53 AM


why?? we already have foye and miller. that would defeat the purpose of trading the #5 pick.

now if u package: james,stevenson and next years second round pick for marcus camby then i wouldnt mind, or even if you package james and stevenson for a 2nd round draft pick next season that would make us a bit more flexible to sign someone better than magloire, nesterovich, or whoever else is on that scrubby list. I think Camby would be a great fit because that is who i think Mcgee plays like and Camby can help and mentor him.

our teams depth will be tested however with the summer league almost underway.
nick young, dominic mcguire and javaris crittenton are all 3 year veterans, they got more playing time than expected last season and now its time to see how they have improved and what they have learned. So i expect the "youngsters" to dominate in the summer games.

its going to be an interesting season to say the least, and I know i will be purchasing more game plans than i did last year because no one (especially during these times) was going to buy a product that doesnt work.

45-48 wins, new records set and broken!! PURE ENERGY!

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | July 10, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"I wonder where this never ending well of money you people think exists is. I'd sure like to get there. How much do you think Abe Pollin is worth? LOL...Half of us won't ever see $1 million and we're mad because a owner won't sign some magical player that doesn't exist to win us a championship for 11 million. LOL

I love this blog.

Posted by: SDMDTSU"

Hey, I said before, I'm glad you're happy that Abe is saving money. That very well may bring the sunshine to your basketball viewing days. I won't ever come close to agreeing with it, but have at it all you want.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

someone correct me if i'm wrong on this, but the lux tax applies to TEAMS that go over the sal cap. So if the wiz pay Millsap, for example, 5 mil and then have to pay the tax, it will only be this year. Millsap's contract would be 5 mil and we'd just have to stay under the cap next year, when we have a lot of contracts coming off the books(MM,MJ,BTH,CB,RF,DS)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

SD lay off the straw man.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I wonder where this never ending well of money you people think exists is. I'd sure like to get there. How much do you think Abe Pollin is worth? LOL...Half of us won't ever see $1 million and we're mad because a owner won't sign some magical player that doesn't exist to win us a championship for 11 million.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 11:38 AM


The owners all get the same amount of television contract money to spend on salaries. If one team can spend, others can spend. If the owner wants to pocket mone and screw the fans, (Abe) he can do that too. It's his team.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

nobody's making up the wiz need for a big. we've all been saying it since the offseason begins. SD are u that much of a homer that u won't acknowledge the teams needs? Are u related to EG? There are plenty of non "magical" players available that can help the wiz. don't fall for EG's 11 mil garbage, it would be double this year cuz the wiz went over the cap with the players EG signed and traded for. B Bass is still there Gooden is still there. IS this team complete? b/c if there are no moves we should all expect the wiz to win no less than 50 this year b/c that is what this inactivity means to me. It means that EG either thinks this team is set to win it all, or he's lying through his teeth to fill the seats so "Never Cheap" Abe can turn a profit this year.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, I think the trade of Zach Randolph means we have very little chance of landing Camby at this point. He was the obvious target to me until LA managed to unload Randolph.

Posted by: jon_quest | July 10, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

If people who actually play pro basketball for a living, don't wanna do it here, there's a reason. And if they go to a team deemed championship ready, then what are we?
Posted by: lilhollywood10

They'd rather go play for a team with more of a MEDIA PERCEIVED chance to win it all THIS YEAR, but Shaq, Artest, McDyess, Rasheed, ALL can't win it this year so somebody 3 of those 4 if not all 4 will be wrong. Malone and Payton did the same thing and won nothing that year. They would not rather play for a team that has not gotten the approval of the media becuase they have no LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, or Garnett on the roster. Abe could offer those millionaires $20mill and they would still go to the teams they picked becuase they do the same as most people here base their predictions based on recent past, not on talent evaluation.

They picked LeBron to go advance past Orlando even though Orlando destroyed Cleveland in the regular season and it was obvious which team was better. Seems like 99% of the media picked Cleveland. Do they really know basketball? Hell no they don't. All they look at is wons and losses. They just overrated Cleveland. Well now they are still overrating Cleveland and Orlando and underrating washington. When in actuality, Washington is just as good as Boston and Cleveland and Orlando. Am I wrong or didn't washington beat the world champion celtics 3 of 4 and back-to-back WITHOUT GILBERT? Don't hand me that crap that it was regular season. Boston WANTED TO WIN at least that last game of the back to back. Washington can play with them!

Same with Cleveland last year. Washington beat them with and without Gil AND Haywood. Why should I be afraid of Cleveland? because they beat washington without Gil and Caron 1 year in the playoffs and with a 1-legged gil the next? I wish y-all would STOP ACTING LIKE WIMPS! Show some courage. What are you afraid of?

This team is the best Washington team since 78. That does not mean that they will win it all. It means they are better than win Cleveland beat Washington in the playoffs when Gil was healthy though.

Don't underrate them.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

truth,
they're lemmings. a lot of folks on here will follow EG off the cliff. After a coupla more first rd finishes or misses from the playoffs these EG apologists will come around. I hope these guys have this same undying support for the skins and their front office decision making.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Wow...now the idea is to drop $10 million per year on Milsap? LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

hollywood I never said we didnt need a big man. I said we'll add one. We have until November to do it. Mike James has an expiring contract we can dangle. We don't have to rush to anything.

Do you think that Brandon Bass or Drew Gooden is the key to us winning a championship? I'm realistic.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"If u call abe cheap be prepared for folks to tell u how he built downtown from scratch and runs the phonebooth as a charity for the peeps of DC."

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 11:13 AM

If you don't think Abe is ultimately making good money from building the Verizon Center, I don't know what world you're living in. Stop reading Abe's press releases. Abe has done some good things for the D.C. community, as he should. The fans here buy his tickets. But on the NBA level, he's clearly not pursuing a championship, let's be real about that.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

They'd rather go play for a team with more of a MEDIA PERCEIVED chance to win it all THIS YEAR


Hilarious!! so these guys let multimillion dollar decisions hinge on media quibblings? they have no knowledge of the game, other players coaches, etc. they just go off of ESPN rumors. ridiculous. I'm saying these players choose to go to teams that they feel are championship ready. I'm not quoting a media source who has evaluated a teams roster, i'm goin off of what the players themselves say. Artest in LA " I want a Ring" , Shaq in Cle "win a ring for the king" sheed in bos " i came here to win" that is why these guys are goin there and not coming here. i don't think the media has as much to do with the players FA decisions as it does with our perception of said decision.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I think the best addition to this team would be a better damn medical staff.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

saarcasm truth

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Drew Gooden would be a good addition because he is a relentless rebounder. No current Wizard carries that description. I'm not going to say that he'd bring us a championship, but adding a guy that rebounds like Gooden definitely adds an area of strength where the Wizards are lacking. I would look very hard at adding a double-figure rebounder like Gooden.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

hollywood,

they all ain't gonna win it though. Only 1 can win it. Who will be wrong? What makes those other teams championship ready if they don't win it? Orlando was championship ready last year I guess. These teams are good. Real good. Yet still overrated by the media in my opinion.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

SD-
i asked u to correct me if i was wrong about the tax, and being that no one has yet, i will go on with my statement that the dollar for dollar tax only applies to whole teams that go over the cap ( the wiz are already paying). millsap is a solid player and proven post defender. He will be due 5 mill if the offer him the MLE. the team will have to pay the 5 this year for going over, however if they are under the cap after that, his contract will be 5 mill, not 10 per year. correct me if im'm wrong

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I would look very hard at adding a double-figure rebounder like Gooden.


now does drew avg dub fig rebs, or does he avg 9 and say he avgs 10 like AJ?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 10, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Oh I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being dead serious. Hopefully the Big 3 play fewer minutes this season.

I think Gooden would be a good addition too. He's still a FA. Who's to say HE'S not ready to sign. Maybe he's weighing his options. That's why I say just because WE haven't heard about it yet, doesn't mean there's no activity.

When I say realistic. Drew Gooden is realistic...but to call the franchise cheap because we're not getting Milsap? Come on. I would've been pissed if we dropped $60 million on Varajeo.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

NothingButTheTruth

Who would you bench for Gooden? Jamison? No. Blatche? probably but it is possible Blatche gains consistency. Then, I don't know. But we need a center more than a power forward in my opinion to back up start if Haywood goes down because I think McGee will be ok as a backup but not ready to start yet. If that is the case, Ernie is justified in waiting to get a 3rd string center on the cheaper as time goes by. Someone like Restovich or whatever his name is. Because if Haywood doesn't go down, we won't need him except as some extra fouls.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

"correct me if im'm wrong

Posted by: lilhollywood10"

You're not.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"With the 2010-2011 cap projected to drop to between $50.4 million and $53.6 million, we won't have much cap space to work with, even if we don't re-sign anyone and resign ourselves to filling out our roster with minimum salary scrubs."

That's wrong on multiple fronts.

First, (A) I've already noted that the figures were based on the current cap because (B) we have no idea what the cap will look like next year. A few months ago "experts" were predicting that the cap could fall by as much as $8 or $10 mil. Guess what? It didn't. It fell by less than $1 mill. So there's no way to know exactly what it will be next summer, which I already acknowledged.

Second, that $49 mill figure only represents the cap minus all of the salary commitments to players who will be unrestricted FAs next summer (Haywood, Miller, James, and McGuire). They wiz have another $12-13 mill tied up in potential unrestricted FAs (the collective Wiz kids) who have team option years. renouncing some or all off them could free up additional money. And, again, as I've already quite clearly stated it's highly unlikely that they would renounce all of their FAs, but it is very likely that several of them will not be back, thus creating some cap flexibility. They will have some FA money to spend, likely enough to go after at least one significant player while keeping 2 or 3 of their own. The exact figures obviously won't be determined until next summer. But the potential for a serious move is clearly there. Will that potential be realized? We won't know until we get there.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

If the Wiz got Gooden, I'd put Blache on the bench before Gooden walked into the gym!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I think we need a C too. However, Gooden is a better play than any of the C's out there.

SD-
i asked u to correct me if i was wrong about the tax, and being that no one has yet, i will go on with my statement that the dollar for dollar tax only applies to whole teams that go over the cap ( the wiz are already paying). millsap is a solid player and proven post defender. He will be due 5 mill if the offer him the MLE. the team will have to pay the 5 this year for going over, however if they are under the cap after that, his contract will be 5 mill, not 10 per year. correct me if im'm wrong.

First off, the MLE isn't going to get Milsap. Not only that he's a restricted free agent. With Utah trying to move Boozer it's even MORE likely that he's staying.

For the sake of argument...let's say he does sign for 5 million. The Wizards are what $6 million in the tax now? Or 4 I think. So they would then increase that to 9 million. Then they would have to get under the cap next year. Haywood is a FA, with Varajeo getting $60 million his price is going up. Then after that Butler is a FA, but I think we would be willing to move him next offseason. Jamison and Gil's contracts (as most contracts do) increase each season. So you're looking at losing the 6 players you listed, for Paul Milsap? Who hd a good season last year but that doesn't mean he's proven yet. It's not just about this season, it's about the seasons to come as well. If they get Milsap and lose Haywood, it's pointless either way.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"You mean besides Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen? Or Elton Brand to Philly (not championship player - but definitely all-star caliber, and he was 29, same age as Artest)? Or Baron Davis to the Clippers?"

The obvious difference being that

(A) those guys were all coming from lottery teams to begin with looking to make a step forward and (B) the ones that moved as FAs (as opposed to getting traded) also got huge paydays.

None of that parallels with the idea of leaving a team coming off a playoff run (or a title) to take the same (or less) money to join a team coming off a 19-win season.

(oh yeah, and how did that move to the Clipps work for BD anyway?)

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

but what is Gooden gonna give you as a non-starter playing less than 25minutes per game? How much will you have to pay him for that? Will he come to be a backup? and Will he take the wizards to that next level? In reality, for the wizards to reach the next level of being rated better by some, you gonna have to get a new starter, not a new backup. Now, how much is that gonna cost?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I repeat, if the Wiz got Gooden, I'd put Blache on the bench before Gooden walked into the gym!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 10, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

In addition....Baron Davis got duped. He went HOME to Los Angeles thinking Brand was going to re-sign. As soon as it didn't happen what was he doing? Trying to get back to Golden State as quickly as possible.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I agree though G-Man...but Gooden would be good in the roatation even if he isn't going to get 25 minutes.

I just saw someone said the Wizards were negotiating in secrecy. That's what they're supposed to do. You're completely crazy. Should Ernie send you an e-mail and let you know the status of contract negotiations?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Kalo wrote:
"If they renounce all of their expiring contracts (including, Miller, Haywood, Foye, and all of the Wiz kids), they could have as much as $22 mill in cap space. of course if they did that, they'd have to replace multiple players, including at least one starter and a couple of rotation guys."

---

Not to get too deep into salary minutiae, but can you explain where you get $22 mil from? (Sorry if someone already covered this, I just skimmed a lot of the rest of the posts)

The Wiz have guaranteed contracts for '10/'11 worth around $49 mil (Gil, AJ, Caron, DeShawn and Blatche). If they renounce all of their FA's and team options / qualifying offers, and the cap stays around $57-58 mil, that seems more like $8-9 mil of actual cap space, plus the MLE of around $5.6 (all of this assuming the cap doesn't go into the serious tank).

Not 100% sure of the rules, but I think if they could use all $8 mil of that cap space on a FA (if they sign him first?) then go over the cap to retain Foye, Haywood, Miller, whoever, and still use the MLE, but then they're back in Lux Tax hell, especially if they expect to extend Caron next year. Not sure if they could combine that $8 mil with the MLE to sign someone for $13 mil, but if they did, they would have to go so far over the cap just to field a complete team that it would be ridiculous.

My numbers came from HoopsHype.com
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm

As to whether Artest would have been a good use of their MLE? In reality, obviously no, because Artest can be a nutjob when not focused, and this team might be a bad fit for him, where the best player is also bit wacky.

But just from a player perspective, Artest could definitely have fit in. He's not the big post presence they need. But he would provide an excellent, tough wing defender to help deal with LeBron, Pierce, Lewis, Turkoglu and the rest of those guys that give the Wizards fits. He would also help provide the toughness and defensive intensity that the team lacks.

You could easily run a lineup of Haywood, AJ, Artest, CB, and Gil. Rotating Artest through the 3 and sometimes the 4 with the right matchup, and rotating CB through the 3 and the 2. Don't know if it would put them over the top, but it would sure as heck have been interesting to watch.

Posted by: ts35 | July 10, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I think Gooden would be good in a rotation here, but is he worth the money in that role?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I dunno G-Man...depends on what his number is. Besides, it's always good to have him just in case someone gets hurt.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather not sign Gooden and role with Blatche as the backup power forward position. If there were no salary cap, I would sign him.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 10, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I think Gooden migh tend up coming cheap though. Doesn't seem like anyone is in a rush to sign him.

The only thing is if Jamison or Blatche gets hurt it's McGuire/Miller rotating at the 4...and that's not necessarily good either.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"Not to get too deep into salary minutiae, but can you explain where you get $22 mil from? (Sorry if someone already covered this, I just skimmed a lot of the rest of the posts)"

Scroll up a few posts before yours and all will be revealed.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Actually that $49 mil doesn't include the kids or anyone with options. It's just the *guaranteed* contracts for '10 / '11.

Gil $17.7 mil
AJ $13.4 mil = 31.1
CB $10.6 mil = 41.7
DeShawn $4.1 mil = 45.8
Blatche $3.2 mil = 49 and change.

If they qualified Foye and exercised all of their options (Young, Critt and McGee), it's another $10 mil and change.

Posted by: ts35 | July 10, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"(A) those guys were all coming from lottery teams to begin with looking to make a step forward and (B) the ones that moved as FAs (as opposed to getting traded) also got huge paydays."

Baron Davis went from a 48 win team (albeit a non-playoff team) to a 23 win team. Why? Because he had the promise of uniting with a recent playoff team that fell off because of an injured all-star (among personal reasons). Sure, he got a pay day, but he would have gotten an equal pay day from GS if he wanted.

And yes, it backfired. But that doesn't discount the fact that he did do it, in a situation that does partially mirror the Wizards situation. And nobody is saying the Wizards would have automatically landed those players. But essentially throwing away the idea of using the MLE because of the luxury tax implications in the same offseason they're pimping that the "future is now" with this core of players does nothing but suggest that there's a greater goal in mind than winning a title.

Posted by: psps23 | July 10, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"Baron Davis went from a 48 win team (albeit a non-playoff team) . . . "

in other words, a lottery team.

"Sure, he got a pay day, but he would have gotten an equal pay day from GS if he wanted."

Nope. At the time there was a well publicized falling out between Davis and Nellie (resulting in Davis being benched for some games in which he was available to play) and, come FA signing period, G.S. was making a run at Arenas, reportedly working to clear out space to offer him a max deal before Gilbert re-signed here. Baron's days in G.S. were done.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Baron Davis did leave a playoff team. Isn't that the year they beat Dallas? I'm not sure though.

He went HOME. That's why he went to the Clippers, because it was his home team and he thought Brand would be there. Kinda how players are doubling up now. Wallace to Boston, McDyess to San Antonio. Artest to Los Angeles. I see where you're trying to go...but it doesn't exactly mirror the situation.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"Baron Davis did leave a playoff team. Isn't that the year they beat Dallas?"

Nope. That was the year before. In Davis' last season in G.S., the team missed the playoffs. During his 4 years in G.S., they only made the playoffs once, as an 8th seed.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Nope. That was the year before. In Davis' last season in G.S., the team missed the playoffs. During his 4 years in G.S., they only made the playoffs once, as an 8th seed.

Point taken....LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

"One of the top 7 PG in the league IMO just behing DW, CP, RR and GA."

I guess that makes Kirk Hinrich the starting point guard for the Eastern All-Stars, considering that
a-Dwyane Wade is a shooting guard
b-Ricky Rubio has no association with this league beyond having his name called into a microphone (and won't have any more for a year or two...)
c- Gilbert Arenas is also, a shooting guard.

When you step out of the Twilight Zone, here's a fact. Kirk Hinrich isn't even the best point guard on his team!

Posted by: mabkhar | July 10, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I would assume DW is Deron Williams and RR is Rajon Rondo....and Gilbert is still a PG, even though he is much more of a scoring PG...

*backs away slowly*

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 10, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"One of the top 7 PG in the league IMO just behing DW, CP, RR and GA."

That's only 4 names. Who are the toher two "top 6 guys who Hinrich is "just behind"?

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich top 7? Aside from Deron, CP, Rondo (we'll leave Gil out for now, healthy knee pending), I'd take Billups, Nash, Devin Harris, Tony Parker and Hinrich's teammate Derrick Rose ahead of him. With probably Gil, Andre Miller, Jameer Nelson, Jason Kidd, and Jose Calderon ahead as well.

Posted by: ts35 | July 10, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Then there's the little detail that he's really more of a SG than a PG.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 10, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

So, is Wizards now qualified as a "low revenue team" to receive extra $ from the league?


http://www.nowgoal.com/30.shtml

Posted by: fetrew | July 14, 2009 7:26 AM | Report abuse

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