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Oberto Signs, Finally

Nearly three weeks after he agreed to join with the Washington Wizards, Fabricio Oberto finally arrived in town on Tuesday to sign a one-year deal worth about $2 million. Oberto is likely the final move of the offseason for the Wizards, who have hired a coach (Flip Saunders) and added two more perimeter players (Randy Foye and Mike Miller) since finishing with a franchise-worst 19-63 record last season.


It's party time! (Allisa Hollimon/NBAE/Getty Images)

Oberto played the previous four seasons in San Antonio, where he was the starting center for the Spurs' 2007 championship team. He also won a gold medal with Argentina duing the 2004 Athens Olympics. Oberto, 34, provides the Wizards with a veteran backup big man and has career averages of 3.6 points, 3.9 rebounds and 57.2 percent shooting from the field. He agreed to terms while at home in his native Argentina, where he was recovering from a heart procedure in June. Oberto passed his physical on Tuesday and will be introduced in a press conference on Wednesday with Ernie Grunfeld, the Wizards president, and Coach Flip Saunders.

"Fabricio is a proven winner with extensive playoff experience," Grunfeld said in a statement. "He is a skilled big man and a rugged veteran that augments our frontcourt depth at both the center and power forward positions."

Oberto was a primary target for the Wizards the moment he became a free agent this summer. He was traded to Detroit in a three-team, five-player deal that sent Richard Jefferson to San Antonio and the Pistons waived him a week later. The Wizards roster is now set at 14 players.

By Michael Lee  |  August 11, 2009; 4:14 PM ET
 
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Next: Oberto Intro, Arenas Update

Comments

Proven Winner?

The guy never averaged over 20 mins in his career!

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/fabricio_oberto/career_stats.html

He agreed to terms while at home in his native Argentina, where he was recovering from a heart procedure in June. Oberto passed his physical on Tuesday.

Did he go to the same guy that cleared ET?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 11, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"Fabricio is a proven winner with extensive playoff experience," Grunfeld said in a press conference. "He is a skilled big man and a rugged veteran that augments our frontcourt depth at both the center and power forward positions."

This from the guy who drafted OP?

Can anyone name one player Grunfeld has drafted for the Wizards that has become a real NBA player?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 11, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Ok, glad we got that out of the way... one less thing. Welcome Fabricio.

Now, seriously, what's up the status of the knee? We all know I'm not talking about Fabricio.

Oct 27th can't come soon enough.

Posted by: EWE1 | August 11, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

@bulletsfan78

Chill out.

Posted by: truthaboutit | August 11, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Well actually Grunfeld drafted Devin Harris for the Wizards, he traded him within an hr. but he did draft him.

I think I remember him at the Allstar game this winter. Since he was traded for Jamison, and Grunfeld managed to rid himself of Stackhouse(Mr. I'm going to shut it down, even though he was cleared to play, & the 8 days in a week house rental) and Christian Laettner in the same deal, I don't think there's one credible NBA commentator that didn't think that deal has worked out for the Wiz.

Grunfeld took on a pricey deal that the Mav's had given Jamison, but it's been a bargain.

The trade again this summer got a proven young and rising guard that can start at the two or play point in Foye AND a proven NBA three point shooter. AND Ernie cleared a roster spot in the process.

The three guys he drafted in the first rd. while the Wiz were going to the playoffs, Pecherov, Young, McGee. Read some Minny stuff on O'Pec. I'd wager he finds more playing time there. Young and McGee, I think will be solid NBA players under Flip.

McGuire and Blatche are two second rounders that have stuck and were rotation players last year. Rare for second rounders.

Grunfeld was hired after Jarvis Hayes was drafted(I really thought the double knee cap break really ruined him)and one first rd. pick had been traded for Haywood by MJ.

The Wiz have sold two second round picks, and still have Veerenko overseas and he seemed to take a big step forward in his game last yr.

From my score card, there's not a wiff in the bunch, some second round finds, two really smart trades with lottery picks, and Young, and McGee, really have some upside. I'd give him a solid B+ with his picks and trades involving picks.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 11, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm with you flohrtv: Grunfeld has done a terrific job. He's assembled an excellent team through trades and the draft, not to mention the free agent pickups of Stevenson and Crittenden. We've got 14 solid players, although I'm sure we could spare Mike James' contract for future considerations.

Posted by: zinger1 | August 11, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and he traded the rights to the Spanish MJ for a future 1st rounder that was heavily protected by Memphis. Ernie managed to spin that pick into Crittenton.

I'm with Larry on Critt, that could turn out to be quite a trade by Grunfeld. Critt has talent, and he works really hard. He's Coach Cassell's project now, I really predict the kid will be a very solid NBA point guard.

Don't sleep on the guy. Suanders took some time to go visit him, can't see Suanders wasting time on a point he thinks is never getting off the bench. Critt looked very solid in summer league and did a nice job of running the team. I think the Wiz staff believes in this kid.

Oh, the Spanish MJ,the guy that we heard the "Cheap Abe" won't sign him talk about, he's back in Spain. That's where the Spanish "Pistol Pete" decided to stay too. And gee, we could have had the rights to him too, except Grunfeld and "Cheap Abe" went and traded for two players that they had to pay this year...

That just doesn't add up if all this team is trying to do is save money...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 11, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

In the past two weeks of posts there's been a lot of talk about the rotations, along with specualtion about how and how much Blatche, McGee,and Jamison will be used. There is a noticeable lack of comments about Dom McGuire. I thought he had a great season for the Wiz, doing what they asked of him, but I'm sensing he may really be the odd man out for Flip. Thoughts?

Posted by: gsrock | August 11, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld has had his share of hits and misses. He started off strong, turning the franchise around from its beeline for the abyss. His record has been mixed (at best) since the acquisition of Butler. There's clearly a sense of urgency in the organization to get it done as close to now as possible, and that is, in part, a reflection of the fallout from some of Grunfeld's missteps. That being said, in the big picture he's done more right than wrong, overall.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 11, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I think McGuire will definitely play. Coaches appreciate guys who work hard and bring it every night, and McGuire does that. And it's not like he's an unskilled guy who gets by all on hustle. He might not be a primary rotation guy (at least at first) but there'll be a place for him. In the flip side, if Blatche stumbles out of the gate, I could see McGuire being the primary backup at PF.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 11, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld and "Cheap Abe" went and traded for two players that they had to pay this year...

That just doesn't add up if all this team is trying to do is save money...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 11, 2009 5:39 PM

GM,

I respect your post on here because you stay out of the name calling (other people on here) and you know basketball.

They saved money by trading the 1st round pick because the salaries of OP, ET and DSong matched that of Miller and Foye, but they save 4 million by not signing a 1st round pick this year.

McGuire has been the most productive player Ernie has drafted. If you believe Flip and his 8 man rotation talk, it doesn't look like McGuire will get much playing time unless there are injuries.

This team only won 19 games last year so I wouldn't say any player from last year really stepped up.

I like Critt, I can remember his one year at Ga. Tech (point guard U.)it makes me wonder why people talk about Foye backing up Gil instead of Critt?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 11, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Ernie drafted Devin Harris for the Mavs so they would make the trade for AJ.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 11, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

@bulletsfan78

Chill out.

Posted by: truthaboutit | August 11, 2009 5:23 PM
_____

Lol, good way to put it.

McGuire is a solid player. Another solid pick from the second round for the GM that can't make any picks according to, well, we know who. Anyway, I too feel like he will kind of be the odd man out of Flip's rotation at least at the start. But, he is just too solid virtually all the way around to not ever see playing time. Good ball handler, underrated passer, improving shot, and as always one of our better one on one defenders. Flip will eventually find at least situational spots for him on the court. Maybe to slow down a hot wing player or as Kal says maybe even the eventual backup at the PF slot depending on the match-up. I can see him being our slightly taller version of Bruce Bowen eventually.

Posted by: rphilli721 | August 11, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

The guy gets where he can sink the wide open 15 footer he'll find some playing time.

My quess is that we'll see the team be a little more uptempo with the depth they have, McGuire does a surprisingly good job handling and passing the ball on the break, so he'll fit that game.

I'd look for him to even play a little 4 this year from time to time. If Butler and Miller are both healthy, playing time at the three's going to be tough.

Miller brings an element to this team it's really lacked. A real 3 ball threat, and he's playing for a new deal, so I'd look for him to be in top form.

Playing time is going to be tough to come by, but a guy like McGuire useally finds his time as the year goes by. Somebody always gets nicked up.

With the depth of this roster, it sure seems like Flip should be able to manage minutes better for the big three. Let's hope for some blowouts(for us) so Flip can clear the bench once and a while.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 11, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

I have always loved what DMac brings. He does the intangibles. He will hang around as a non-out rotation guy till injuries really hit in January or February. Then he will play and Flip will realize that he brings needed things that nobody else brings - hustle, defense, great passing, runs the court and most of all doesn't need to take lots of shots to be happy. I don't know whose minutes he will eventually take but by March will be shocked if he is not playing 15-20 minutes a game.

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | August 11, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

The average player in the NBA makes about $5M a year. For those McGuire fans, what do you think he will get in his next contract?

I see him getting about $2M/year.

The next contract should tell you something about how good he is, particularly versus his peers.

Posted by: Izman | August 11, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Nothing coming out of EG's mouth can be believed.

"Oberto was a primary target for the Wizards the moment he became a free agent this summer."

Sad.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | August 11, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

The average player in the NBA makes about $5M a year. For those McGuire fans, what do you think he will get in his next contract?

I see him getting about $2M/year.

The next contract should tell you something about how good he is, particularly versus his peers.Izman

Contracts aren't tea leaves. McGuire's next contract is only going to tell you how good a team thinks he can be for the duration of the contract. But if you're going to compare his salary with the salaries of his peers, the median salary is probably around $3 Mil.

Posted by: djnnnou | August 11, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Good thread on D MAc guys. AS I said at the start, I think he did all the things the team asked, and as you mentioned... hustle, competent ball handling, some short stints of shut down D over and above his regular level of solid D, and an improving jump shot. As for the minutes, I also think they will come some from the 4 when we go smaller, and some from injuries or fouls.

Contracts are strange, and are very much a function of a moment in time for a given player and the team(s) involved. McGuire could easily be attractive to a lot of teams looking for an affordable player versus some overpriced 8 year vet who's on cruise control.

One aside, I love the tough preseason slate. We should get a good luck at how far the team has come right away.

Posted by: gsrock | August 11, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Nothing coming out of EG's mouth can be believed.

"Oberto was a primary target for the Wizards the moment he became a free agent this summer."

Sad.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | August 11, 2009 7:27 PM

LOL!!!!!!! I'm in tears. Ernie should go into politics.

Posted by: closg | August 11, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I see Cleveland signed Leon Powe. What? Why didn't the Wizards sign him. Cheap bastids.

Posted by: thecomedian2 | August 11, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

"Fabricio is a proven winner with extensive playoff experience"
Agree.
The guy won NBA ring, olympic gol medal, silver medal World Champion Cup 2002, a solid vet. Good add for Wizards.
Welcome Fabricio!

Posted by: patorabasa | August 11, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

BulletsFan78, So you like JCrit. You see I knew you was a good fellow.

You see along with all the good points about JCrit, there is one thing that will play large for him and that is his size.

Size in the NBA is golden when you have all the other intangibles to go along with it like, speed, talent, and intelligence.

Trust me when I say, he is gonna break some PG's hearts in this League and GM knows this, BF78. And, he will achieve this next to Gilbert and make all those Larry Hughes fans forget about him.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 11, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Larry,

The one thing Gil lacks is size and the desire to play "D". I think Critt could play the point at times with Gil playing the 2 spot and all they would have to do is switch when playing "D".

I know you're a Tar Heel guy and I am a Terp fan but JC was player when he played his one year at point guard U!

Read this kids bio...I think he could be better for this team than Foye.

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/crittenton_javaris00.html

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Did the Les BouleS doctors perform a physical and check out his ticker before the signing was sealed?

Oh wait...Les BouleS doctors.....

Oh well, just sign him for a 40 mil poison pill contract, perform heart surgery, and then trade him.....It'll be ET part deux.

Does Oberto do slam poetry and listen to Sista Soulja?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | August 12, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, it's funny how mcguire has been lost in the shuffle during all this lineup chatter. truth is, he could easily be the guy who spells AJ if blatche is the same-old-same-old. Yet another reason to believe this is the season AB is pushed into being the player he could be...or to the end of the bench.

Whichever way it works out is fine for the team too.

Bullets"fan"88,

Why do you keep asking about how EG has drafted? He is the GM. All that matters is what players are on our roster, makes not one bit of difference if he drafted them or traded for them.

And no matter how much you are loathe to admit it, the roster EG has put together for this season looks like the most talented Wiz roster any of us have seen in YEARS. To go along with the best coach we've had since....?

Thank You Ernie, great moves

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

"And no matter how much you are loathe to admit it, the roster EG has put together for this season looks like the most talented Wiz roster any of us have seen in YEARS. To go along with the best coach we've had since....?

Thank You Ernie, great moves

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 12:06 AM "

What looks good on paper doesn't necessarily translate to team chemistry and wins on the board. You should know that by now.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | August 12, 2009 1:18 AM | Report abuse

divi3

This team only has a couple of years where they have a real chance at winning a championship and all I would like to see is for them to take the final steps the way LA and Bos has in the last couple of years.

When a team isn't willing to spend their MLE on a top notch free agent, it makes ME wonder how serious the leadership is about winning a championship?

You don't have to agree with me and I could be wrong...only time will tell.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 1:27 AM | Report abuse

They saved money by trading the 1st round pick because the salaries of OP, ET and DSong matched that of Miller and Foye, but they save 4 million by not signing a 1st round pick this year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 11, 2009 6:11 PM

Almost matched, the Wiz got a $1,446,720 traded player exception for Pecherov (they traded out more salary than they traded in). For a year, Wizards are allowed to acquire a player up to that amount even if they are beyond the salary cap. Whether they take advantage of it is another matter.
Assuming that they used the bi-annual exception to pay Oberto, they also still have the MLE.

Posted by: rickgonz | August 12, 2009 2:23 AM | Report abuse

The one thing Gil lacks is size and the desire to play "D". I think Critt could play the point at times with Gil playing the 2 spot and all they would have to do is switch when playing "D".
-78

The one thing you lack is something close to a brain. Gil may lack the desire to play "D", but he does not lack size whatsoever.

Posted by: rphilli721 | August 12, 2009 4:51 AM | Report abuse

The acquisition of Oberto brings depth and veteran frontcourt leadership to the Wiz. He played on the Argentina Olympic championship team and got an NBA ring with the 2007 Spurs.

Flip Saunders has a nice mix of veterans and younger players this year. I can't remember the Wizards ever being this deep at the guard position with Foye, Gil, and Crittenton competing for minutes. Factor in two quality wing players [Butler and Young] and then seal the deal with Brendan Haywood and AJ on the frontline. Any team that can bring JaVale McGee and Dominic McGuire off the bench is a serious squad. October can't get here fast enough!

Posted by: musicmanjr | August 12, 2009 6:58 AM | Report abuse

...by the end of the year I believe will see that AB ended up playing more backup center to BTH than he has at PF behind AJ. Its going to tough for DMac to find minutes unless there is a major injury, as McGee will also be looked at as a primary contributor at PF behind AJ.
JCrit does have a lot of potential, but is still not ready to be the primary back up GA. He still lacks the confidence and knowhow to make this team go...Maybe the next year.
EG is proving to be a superior evaluator of talent and team chemistry. EG started in a hole, inheritting the dismal mistakes of 15+years past. EG made some strong moves from the start and may have made the steal of decade with Kwame for CB...until the Lakers were gifted Gasol perhaps. EG hasnt hit homeruns on every player, but what GM has? At this point I would rate EG #1 or #2 amoung each and every GM the Wiz/Bullets/Zephyrs have ever had.

Posted by: oddjob2 | August 12, 2009 7:03 AM | Report abuse

D-Mac will get minutes because he will earn them. He can play 3 positions. And hopefully he's been working on getting a competent jumper. If McGee still can't grasp the basics of positioning and proper rotations...I can see Blatche becoming the primary backup C and D-Mac playing the 4.

So many different options is going to make people earn clock. The roster is talented all the way through.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

The one thing you lack is something close to a brain. Gil may lack the desire to play "D", but he does not lack size whatsoever.

Posted by: rphilli721 | August 12, 2009 4:51 AM

rphilli721,

Gil is 6'3" and Kobe is 6'6" Ray Allen is 6'5" and a lot of shooting gurads and taller than Gil...the reason they brought in Stevenson (it wasn't for his offense) was because he was tall enough to play D against the other teams shooting guards.

Do you know anything about basketball?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

On McGuire, this could be one of those situations where the player improves over last season and still winds up playing fewer minutes. Saunders is correct IMO in focusing on developing a rotation -- it's a team game, after all -- but he's already got more able players than he can possibly use. Maybe Grunfeld's best move was to trade three vets and two draft choices and wind up with only two players in return.

If McGuire develops a corner jumper, I bet he makes the rotation in some games, at least. I don't know if he's as good a perimeter defender as Stephenson, but he's close. And he can defend several positions.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 12, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Read this kids bio...I think he could be better for this team than Foye.

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/crittenton_javaris00.html

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 12:00 AM

Yes indeed BF78, what you get from JC that some people are missing, even though he is young and will grow, is that he is a money player. Money players tend to show up when games are on the line.

Gilbert is a money player. Another guy that is a money player is that guy named Ty Lawson. They show up in the 2nd half of games.

JC's stats exemplify that he is a second half player as well as Ty Lawson's stats.

Wizard fans are in for a treat. I said many times that JC will allow Gilbert not to have to carry the heavy load at point by himself, but to allow Gilbert to excel at his choosing from either the 1 or the 2, as you stated as well.

LarryInClintonMD.

Say it with me Wizard Fans. MONEY PLAYER!!!

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Gil is 6'3" and Kobe is 6'6" Ray Allen is 6'5" and a lot of shooting gurads and taller than Gil...the reason they brought in Stevenson (it wasn't for his offense) was because he was tall enough to play D against the other teams shooting guards.

Do you know anything about basketball?

Considering Gil plays the 1 and is actually one of the bigger PG's in the league.

Do you know anything about basketball?

Larry...you gotta realize where that bio on Critt came from. He's going to be good. And has the size and skills to be really good. I just don't think he's ready yet. I love the fact that he seems to have that internal drive to get better as well.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU

Please take the time to read my post if you are going to comment about them. We already have kal on here and he does that.

Larry,

The one thing Gil lacks is size and the desire to play "D". I think Critt could play the point at times with Gil playing the 2 spot and all they would have to do is switch when playing "D".

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/crittenton_javaris00.html


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 12:00 AM

Do you think I hacked into Ga. Techs web site to create a new bio for the kid?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

About Oberto: the focus on a veteran big man was in part because they had to give up Songaila instead of Stevenson in the Minnesota trade. Coaches don't like to go into the season with inexperienced backups as the only option. If Haywood went down, there could be a real problem. Oberto is at least a short-term solution.

Also, his 'championship' experience is legit. He's a role player who earns his way onto the court because he plays well with others -- something we didn't see a lot of last season. He's not there to fill a stat sheet.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 12, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

There are people on here that are worse than jr high school girls. If they don't like what you say (being real and calling it the way "I" see it) they get their panties in a bunch, get all defensive and don't even take the time to read a post and respond to it objectively.

Is it because they don't have an opinion of their own?

Look people just like Abe doesn't care what the fans think of him, I don't really care what you think of me. Just read my post and use a little intelligence before responding and/or don't read them and don't respond.

Thank you,

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Please take the time to read my post if you are going to comment about them. We already have kal on here and he does that.

You don't make sense. Ever. If Gil is too small because Ray Allen has an inch on him or Kobe has 2 inches on him. Critt is 6'5'' why would Gil ever guard the other teams SG? Unless it's a matchup thing like if we're playing the Nets or something. Gil has the size to guard either position. It's strictly the effort level.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you'll see it out of the gate, But Gil, Foye, and Critt have the makings of a nasty three guard rotation. Gil has always played best when paired with combo type guards.

When he was playing with Daniels, or Hughes, who was running point? Who was guarding who, the Wiz did a lot of switching and doubling in the backcourt. That was the reason for the high number of steals the Hughes/Arenas pairing got.

I still feel that Young is headed for a real breakout year too, so the Wiz backcourt could get really competitive.
Stephenson and James have both got uphill battles for not only playing time, but to get out of suits.

As thin as the Wiz are upfront, I can't see inactivating any frontline guy unless he's hurt. I'm still not sure Ernie's done yet, but a deal could wait until the trade deadline when teams get desperate to dump salary if they're out of the running.

78' the only way the "Cheap Abe" discription fits this summer's deal would be if Ernie lets both Miller and Foye walk with no compensation, AND doesn't enter next years FA derby.

If the young guys are doing really well, Miller's contract could be combined with the trade exception & James to form the core of an interesting package for a team interested in a contract dump.

Ernie could find that final pc. that you're talking about in a deadline deal. But I think he's going to wait and let Flip evaluate what they have before another deal is made.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 12, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

GM

I totally agree with you that it will take some time for Flip to evaluate how the players are going to play together, who is healthy, and who is willing to buy into his coaching philosophy?

I know people on here get upset by my comments about Abe (I think you are a little younger than me) but fans who go back as far as the Cap center days are tired of waiting for next year.

I only wanted to see them make an effort of signing a quality free agent. People claim good free agents don't want to come here and play?

Why is that? Is it because they know they can make more money playing someone else or is it because they believe they have a better chance at winning a championship somewhere else?

When Ernire says Oberto was the guy they were looking at from the time he got released it makes me wonder.

I am willing to wait till next year to see how things unfold....what choice do I have, become a fan of another team?

For me it doesn't work that way, I believe once you're a fan of a team you're always a fan of that team whether they are good or bad.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU,

What don't you understand? I was commenting on Larry's opinion that we both like Critt.

Larry,

The one thing Gil lacks is size and the desire to play "D". I think Critt could play the point at times with Gil playing the 2 spot and all they would have to do is switch when playing "D".

If Critt is playing PG and Gil is playing SG I just think it makes sense that Critt (who plays better D and has a couple of inches on Gil) cover the other teams 2 gurad on the D end of the court.

As GM pointed out...

When Gil was playing with Daniels, or Hughes, who was running point? Who was guarding who, the Wiz did a lot of switching and doubling in the backcourt. That was the reason for the high number of steals the Hughes/Arenas pairing got.

Does that make sense to you?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

BulletsFan78,

I know you did not make that Bio up. It lends credence to the fact that JC might be being underestimated in the scheme of things for the Wizards.

The easy position is that Gilbert runs the 1 with Foye/somebody else. However, wiser approaches know that things don't always work out as planned.

I see JC making the plans better and I think you do also.

I remember way back when I first started on this site I ran across your cheap Abe assertions and the ire it brought. I would laugh to myself and I still do.

There is a valid reason for calling Abe cheap, although you can see he has spent money as well. The Wizard organization has made many personnel decisions based on money alone and it has bit them in the tail.

But everytime you say 'Cheap Abe' there is some folks that want to act like 'It aint so'.

Do they even know that Abe was in principle against the monies Free Agents got once rookie contracts expired.

Abe did not want to pay Jawan Howard, I believe at the time about 26 million, which was the FA market for Howard at the time and what Howard would have signed for.

Abe thought that was too much.

Instead, Atlanta offered 100 something million for Howard and old Abe was flabergasted and the league had to step in so Abe and the Bullets cound match the offer.

Abe cheapness in not believing that the market was correct at 20-30 somthing million for Howard cost him dearly for player that was not worth 100 million something dollars.

And this is why I still laugh when you call Abe cheap, for he is clearly guilty of being cheap. Ironically, his cheapness has caused him to spend.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

78
people just don't wanna do their research. they'd rather just go off of wiz press releases. that's why they think abe was so nice to build a stadium with his own money and revitalize dc by himself( abe also found saddam).
people would rather blame mike jordan for the state of this team than it's current owner and gm. i was a cap center kid, and i watched abe trade cwebb, and sheed . i saw him get outbid for juwan howard. i saw hime give up on ben wallace ( i might've gave up too, it's a coin flip).
if you're not frustrated with this squad then god blees you. i just took the blinders off 2 yrs ago so it may take a while for some of you. go wiz

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you'll see it out of the gate, But Gil, Foye, and Critt have the makings of a nasty three guard rotation. Gil has always played best when paired with combo type guards.

So true GM.

You know the saying the Cream always rises to the Top. Maybe and I agree, not right out the gate, but it will be surprisingly and sooner than some think.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The reason they brought in Stevenson is because Arenas is primarily a PG and they needed a starting SG. It had nothing to do with Arenas lacking size to guard other SGs. He was never guarding other SGs because he was playing PG, where he has a decided size advantage against most of the competition.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I think the most likely scenario is for Crittenton to be in the rotation as the primary backup at PG with Foye starting at SG next to Arenas. Foye's ability to handle the ball and score would give them some interchangeability in the backcourt and open up the offense all over the floor. Crittenton, who's a more natural playmaker than either Arenas or Foye, would man the floor off the bench with Miller, giving them two guys who can move the ball around and keep the young bench colts organized instead of having them run around like blind horses like they did last season.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Well actually 78', I might be the oldest regular poster here. I go back to the old Baltimore Civic Center Days. I was only 9 at the time, but I saw Monroe play as a rookie.

Used to tag along with my older brother to games in downtown Baltimore. My brother was an engineering student, you know the slide rule and pocket protector crowd. We'd have probably got mugged, except we didn't look like we were worth the trouble.

We used to get 2 dollar student upper deck seats, on slow nights Abe would clear out the upper deck and bring everybody downstairs. On some cold nights Abe would let people in off the streets in the second quarter. I don't know if he was that good hearted, or he wanted to make it look like he had a crowd.

But believe me that was some lively, funny crowd, whino's and ladies from the block. Pretty eye opening, for a country boy. I never knew it until years later, but that guy telling ushers what to do, and when to let people in the door was Abe. In those days the guy ran the operation.

One suggestion, drop the "Cheap" Abe stuff. Many people find that highly offensive when directed at a Jewish man. Especially one that has shown a good heart over the years.

Cheap is kinda like the "N" word for our Jewish friends. Four Jewish guys get together they'll always call each other "cheap". Just like some brothers use the "N" word at each other. It's just not really nice keep refering to a respected Jewish Man as being "Cheap".

I'm as frustrated of fan as anyone. I grew up on the Bullets, from 68-69 to 79' they went to the finals 4 times. Back in those days poor TV with a snowy picture or AM radio was the only way to get a Bullets game. Listened to many of Bullet game in a car instead of in the house cause reception was better.

Chris Webber still makes me mad, becuase his lack of maturity broke up another chance for the Bullets to be really good.

I still hold him responsible for the whole Wizards name too. The Wizards have nothing to be proud of, the Bullets were one of the league's best for years.

Ernie's moves seem geared toward finding out how good these kids really are. Blatche, McGee, and Young, are all going to get early chances to play their way in or out of the rotation. Critt and McGuire's chances may come later but they'll come.

By the deadline Flip and Ernie will have a good idea what they've got and I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a move. People whined wanted Van Gundy or Brown to come here in the past. Flip's got as strong of a record as anyone out there.

Ernie's got a track record too, this is the strongest Coach/GM combo the team has had since the Motta days. So I'm really looking forward to watching it play out.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 12, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I think that Abe may have learned about being penny-wise and pound foolish after the Wiz were burned in the Juwan Howard signing. As far as FA's go, Agent Zero was given a large contract to come her from Golden State at roughly $11M/year when he had only played two seasons. Abe signed off on the trade for Jamison when he was under a max contract but was not even a starter in Dallas.

Has he always spent his money smartly? No, I'm still not convinced that re-signing Arenas and Jamision will work out in the long-run but Abe clearly paid a lot of money to field what EG thought would be a contending team last year. The fact that we unloaded a couple of bad contracts (Thomas, Songaila) to acquire two veterans who could really help us ths year is another indicator that he wants to field a good team. Ricky Rubio would not have even made a dent in the rotation this year if the Wiz had drafted him.

As much as we wanted to see the Wiz make a splash in the FA market by signing a Drew Gooden or Brandon Bass, the reality is that there simply isn't enough playing time at PF to justify using the MLE this year. Time will tell if AB and McGee can develop into rotation players, but they need playing time this year. Jamision and Haywood will receive the bulk of the minutes at the 4 and 5, but having a savvy veteran, role player like Oberto gives us depth and experience at both positions. He's also under a one-year deal and was a nice pickup.

Posted by: wizfan89 | August 12, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

The pieces and dynamics could be dynamic for this Team. I think that is how Abe has always looked at winning a Championship on the 'Cheap' sotospeack.

The Championship Team of Kupchak, Unseld, Ballard, Chenier, Dandridge, Grevey, Hayes, Henderson, Johnson, Pace, Walker, & Wright was not put together with a lot of money. You could get away with having a good Team without the outlay of money you have to put out today. And don't forget that Monroe could have been in that bunch, except for the money.

Abe still clings to the championship ways of years past and only begrudgingly makes an IPHONE stroke ever now and then.

Another reason why I laugh when BF78 calls Abe cheap because he is and he ain't about to change.

But here and now he has a Team that can really do something. If this Team can strike lightening it would be pure gratification, an, I told you so glimmer in his heart and mind like never before for Abe.

Let me say this, Haywood is vet' smart at the center position and this Team is set to play as well as Orlando did last year.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse


they brought in DS to replace LH our former 6'5" sg. stevenson was thought to bring the same type of defensive skills as LH, if not better. the posistion of PG or SG wasn't as clearly defined with LH and Gil as it has been with DS and Gil. When larry was here Gil did play off the ball on offense and did defend the point on d. Not the same as him being slotted at the 2 and playing d on the one but it's close.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

:When larry was here Gil did play off the ball on offense and did defend the point on d. Not the same as him being slotted at the 2 and playing d on the one but it's close."

No, it's not. The whole point of contention was whether Arena's size was an issue on defense for him guarding the other team's SG. By your own admission, it wasn't, because (as has been said by several people) he wasn't actually guarding the other team's SG. Therefore, his size was never an issue and Stevenson was not acquired to cover for it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Good post GM as always.

Thanks for the insight on calling a Jew Cheap. I am sure BF78 never meant it that way. I too had said to BF78 to stop doing that, but I clearly understand why he does.

I think too many though wail against his assertion needlessly.

But again great post and good tidbits about Abe and the early years.

I share your sentiments about the Wizard name as well. It just shows that politically correct ain't always right. Personal tragedy in our inner cities with guns stuck us up wit' the Wizards.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Chris Webber still makes me mad, becuase his lack of maturity broke up another chance for the Bullets to be really good.

I still hold him responsible for the whole Wizards name too. The Wizards have nothing to be proud of, the Bullets were one of the league's best for years.

Hey cuz, Cwebb was 22 when he got caught smoking in his car. while it's hardly the standard behavior for your avg pro athlete it is the standard behavior for a large percentage 22 year olds. lay off him . he didn't break up the wiz.abe did. he traded webb. check his rap sheet, did webb go to jail? was someone hurt? i don't see how you could blame webb for breaking up that team. and the bullets name was said to have become offensive to Abe after his jweish brethren Rabin was gunned down. the name was gone after that.

and on a whiole 'nother issue. don't be afraid to speak ur mind just b/c of race or religion. I'm not supposed to say that i think abe has been cheap because he's a jew? i'm not relating the two so neither should yall. the day me or anybody else calls abe a "dirty" jew or something like that kick us off the site. all some of us are saying is there are diocumented instances where abe would rather save some money than better the team's roster (oberto's signing for 1.9 mil a yr and big baby signing for 3 mil a year etc). i think that's ok. i would call him cheap if he were chinese or black or hispanic.
Rich abe doesn't need yall to cry him a river bout a coupla fans who think he could spend a lil more when it counts. But i'd luv to be proved wrong. and by the way we're talking about cheap in terms of personnel moves not stadium financing and urban renewal, i think if we all read up about the downtown renewal, some of us would see that abe recieved a lot from the city for all he's put into it.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

'Personal tragedy in our inner cities with guns stuck us up wit' the Wizards.

LarryInClintonMD.'

Actually it was the assassination of Yitzak Rabin (a friend of Abe's), that prompted him to change the name.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Therefore, his size was never an issue and Stevenson was not acquired to cover for it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 11:49 AM
never said that it was, never said that he was.

The reason they brought in Stevenson is because Arenas is primarily a PG and they needed a starting SG. It had nothing to do with Arenas lacking size to guard other SGs.

true. gil is primarily a point, butthe wiz had chucky atkins,antonio daniels, jarvis hayes, awee storey and donell taylor on the team after larry left. if they wanted to move gil to the 2 they had other points on the roster as they always have, however gil's size would always be an issue which is why eddie paired him with a taller guard who was able to run the point and guard the two. most of the guards i named earlier are shorter than gil and or stevenson (or just not good enough Taylor,Storey). that being said eddie's plan wouldn't work b/c he would use Gill off the ball on o, but there wasn't a taller guard on the roster to guard the other teams 2. if they brought in a taller guard like DS, one could think that it was so EJ could use said guard and Gil in the same way that they used LH and Gil. however this move is only based on having a guard taller than Gil with pg skills, and the ability to defend the 2 making his size part of the issue.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

'Personal tragedy in our inner cities with guns stuck us up wit' the Wizards.

LarryInClintonMD.'

Actually it was the assassination of Yitzak Rabin (a friend of Abe's), that prompted him to change the name.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 12:11 PM

tell'em again div3. dc was the murder cap for years throughout the 80s. black men, women and children were getting killed in dc by gun violence for years before abe changed the name.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

white folks,hispanics and asians too

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

tell'em again div3. dc was the murder cap for years throughout the 80s. black men, women and children were getting killed in dc by gun violence for years before abe changed the name.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 12:14 PM


Point taken, but still illustrates my point about politically correct, for the prevailing wisdom of the time was that Abe was making the change because of the inner city gun violence.

You see Politics had to make it a broader issue rather than a personal tragedy of Abe as you've pointed out.

Tks.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Well actually C. Webb was moaning about the Bullets jersey sales before the Rabin assassination. There was rumblings of a major change before Abe stated his intention to change the name.

No problem with anyone pointing out when they think an owner should spend more money. But labeling someone "Cheap Abe" would be considered offensive by anyone who is Jewish. It's is a sterotype.

But hey, people need to go with the flow. Years ago when I was at UM and started going to some of the city playgounds with friends to play some Ball. I was named Country Boy, White Cracker, Country Cracker, etc.

Eventually when I proved I could take a lump(or two) and play, it got shortened to either Country, or Cracker. As in "I'll take Cracker" and his weakassed, white boy, can't dunk on no body game.

But at least I got to play...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | August 12, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Unseld's CLASSIC bullets jersey was sported by none other than Lebron back in '03...and I believe did great in sales due to red/white/blue in a post911 land

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"Well actually 78', I might be the oldest regular poster here. I go back to the old Baltimore Civic Center Days. I was only 9 at the time, but I saw Monroe play as a rookie."

James Monroe? Now I'm impressed.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 12, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

The name Bullets became politically incorrect, just like the name Redskins. The Redskins so far have been successful in supporting their point that Redskins is not derogatory and was never meant to be.

The Wizards did not fight the political correctness at the time and choose to change the name for whatever reason. Abe's friend or relative was probably a part of it, but it was the political correctness of time, more than anything else.

The Baltimore Bullets/Washington Bullets is a great name.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | August 12, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

But labeling someone "Cheap Abe" would be considered offensive by anyone who is Jewish. It's is a sterotype.


is it ok if you really feel like he's cheap, and couldn't give less of a kcuf what testament he reads from. it's not rude to call a dead person dead. just calling a spade a spade. i think he coulda spent more on a better fa, since we already were over the cap for the first time in forever.
if we're gonna censor our opinions based on corresponding stereotypes what do we say? we can't call Kwame Brown or Blatch lazy, cuz that's a stereotype against black folks right? we can't say nick young has a low IQ (basketball or otherwise) because black athletes have been stereotyped as not being as cerebral as other races, right?

Abe's cheapness or lack there of is no indictment against jews as a race/religion, but is is an indictment of the wiz owner who happens to be jewish.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

78
people just don't wanna do their research. they'd rather just go off of wiz press releases. that's why they think abe was so nice to build a stadium with his own money and revitalize dc by himself( abe also found saddam).
people would rather blame mike jordan for the state of this team than it's current owner and gm. i was a cap center kid, and i watched abe trade cwebb, and sheed . i saw him get outbid for juwan howard. i saw hime give up on ben wallace ( i might've gave up too, it's a coin flip).
if you're not frustrated with this squad then god blees you. i just took the blinders off 2 yrs ago so it may take a while for some of you. go wiz

Yeah I was too. My mother worked there so I was at every game, concert and event growing up. So I would think if anyone would realize the difference in the culture of the team you would. I was here for the Darrell Walkers, Mark Alaries, Don McLeans, Kevin Duckworths, Michael Adams, Gheorghe Muresans, LaBradford Smiths, the list can go on. I'm not as old as some but I didn't live to see them win a championship they've ALWAYS been bad.

The Jim Lynam(sp?) and Wes Unseld as coaches are gone. Susan O'Malley advertising OTHER teams players is over. You would never see a billboard of a Wizards player back then. It was come see Michael Jordan at the Capital Centre. Come see Karl Malone and the Utah Jazz. They have a competent coach, and a competent GM. Some of his moves haven't worked so well...but neither have Joe Dumars, Jerry West or anyone else. Funding the arena is a different deeper conversation.

Webber? Another deep conversation. He partied harder than Blatche does now. Some athletes can't handle DC....lol

It's not the mentioned trades were salary dumps. They were SUPPOSED to make us better. Ike Austin had a good season BEFORE he got here. Same with Mitch Richmond.

I'm not going to keep complaining about bad moves in 1995 in 2009. The entire cast of clowns was cleared out and we have a good GM that is making good moves. Bringing in UP AND COMING TALENT. Not guys on the tail end of their careers and giving up youth to do it. Butler, Foye, Critt all up and coming. Blatche, Young, McGuire, McGee all up and coming. Arenas was up and coming.

If you can't see the difference of now and the past that's on you. Just my opinion.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

i think he coulda spent more on a better fa, since we already were over the cap for the first time in forever.

Seriously. In your mind...who should we have signed? What moves would you have made to make us better?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

just spoke with a co-worker, Neal Pfeiffer who is jewish and raised by a "very jewish family." not only was he not offended by people calling Mr.Polin "cheap", he actually agreed by saying " he is cheap". furthermore he said that only jews who want to be upset by people calling other jews cheap get upset. while this is a generaliztion, i have to agree that as a member of a minority group, we have the ability to embrace, ignore or combat stereotypes. however an individual should be held accoutable for their actions. so it's ok to call cheap people cheap says my jewish co-worker.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

was gooden available, hakeem warrick ? i dunno i guess oberto was the best FA available this summer............oh my bad he was just the most affordable/CHEAPEST.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The Jim Lynam(sp?) and Wes Unseld as coaches are gone. Susan O'Malley advertising OTHER teams players is over. You would never see a billboard of a Wizards player back then. It was come see Michael Jordan at the Capital Centre. Come see Karl Malone and the Utah Jazz. They have a competent coach, and a competent GM. Some of his moves haven't worked so well...but neither have Joe Dumars, Jerry West or anyone else. Funding the arena is a different deeper conversation.

I GUESS YOU DON'T WATCH THE GAMES AND SEE THOSE COMMERCIALS FOR THE lakers,cavs and magic 3 game package where they advertise KB24 LBJ and DH12. they still advertise other teams stars

Webber? Another deep conversation. He partied harder than Blatche does now. Some athletes can't handle DC....lol

All star possible hall of famer, compare somone else to blatche, cuz cwebb woulda become the best big man to ever play in dc. his partying never effected his play. u think he stopped smoking and partying when he left dc for cali. keep dreaming

Bringing in UP AND COMING TALENT
now the 05 6th man of the yr is an up and coming talent.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Why sign gooden when Blatche and Mcgee are on the roster? I dont think you make that move until you've given up on Blatche.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU, preach it!

Lord that stuff rings so true, promoting other teams players always killed me. And so many awful trades and decsions, was really a nightmare franchise.

remember the day Juwan hit the FA market? I could envision Wes setting his alarm early in anticipation, didnt want to miss his 9:00am call to the agent.

Meanwhile Pat Riley is pressing speedial at 12:01am, we never had a chance. Had to pull strings with Stern to get Juwan back, only to have it turn out a disaster signing. CURSED.

We're light years from that era, and I'm more excited about this particular roster than I have been in long time.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"gil is primarily a point, butthe wiz had chucky atkins,antonio daniels, jarvis hayes, awee storey and donell taylor on the team after larry left. if they wanted to move gil to the 2 they had other points on the roster as they always have,"

Of all those guys you list, only 2 (Daniels and Atkins) were actually PGs and Atkins wasn't even here for an entire season. And when he was here he barely played. And Daniels and Arenas only played together in very short spurts.

"however gil's size would always be an issue which is why eddie paired him with a taller guard who was able to run the point and guard the two."

Arenas's size is not an issue at PG (his natural position and the one he plays the vast majority of the time). He was always paired with a taller player because he was always paired with a SG, and most SGs are taller than most PGs.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

was gooden available, hakeem warrick ? i dunno i guess oberto was the best FA available this summer............oh my bad he was just the most affordable/CHEAPEST.

Two more jumpshooting PF's. That's exactly what we need. We needed a role player and if anything Oberto will know be solid defensively and hopefully the young guys can learn something from him. Looking at stats isn't going to tell you everything. Oberto will be physical if he gets in the game and maybe he even learned a defensive rotation in San Antonio. When is the last time someone took a charge? Did some dirty work?

Bringing in UP AND COMING TALENT
now the 05 6th man of the yr is an up and coming talent.

Way to be selective. I name 5 or 6 players and you pick one to nitpick. Miller is one of the best pure shooters in the league. Foye is a 3 year veteran, Critt came out the same year as Nick. Butler, Gil were were up and coming when Ernie got them. Yet you try to make a point on Miller?

I GUESS YOU DON'T WATCH THE GAMES AND SEE THOSE COMMERCIALS FOR THE lakers,cavs and magic 3 game package where they advertise KB24 LBJ and DH12. they still advertise other teams stars

When you win 19 games what are you going to advertise? Those are 3 of the best on the planet...and actually it's not the same. I haven't seen a LeBron billboard downtown yet. Maybe you don't remember how it was. EVERY game was about the other team. Come see Adrian Dantley, people who weren't even stars.

Webber? Another deep conversation. He partied harder than Blatche does now. Some athletes can't handle DC....lol

All star possible hall of famer, compare somone else to blatche, cuz cwebb woulda become the best big man to ever play in dc. his partying never effected his play. u think he stopped smoking and partying when he left dc for cali. keep dreaming

You don't know what he would have become here. Trust the night life in Sacremento is nothing compared to D.C., for all you know he could have BECOME Blatche. Shot, arrested. Webber's partying DID affect his play. When he wasn't injured of course. Go check how many games a season C-Webb played. Maybe because we were so terrible back then that excitement was magnified. Hell, if you're really bored go look up some stats. If you remember how he played he jacked up just as many stupid jumpers as Blatche. If you want to be real.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Lord that stuff rings so true, promoting other teams players always killed me. And so many awful trades and decsions, was really a nightmare franchise.

remember the day Juwan hit the FA market? I could envision Wes setting his alarm early in anticipation, didnt want to miss his 9:00am call to the agent.

Meanwhile Pat Riley is pressing speedial at 12:01am, we never had a chance. Had to pull strings with Stern to get Juwan back, only to have it turn out a disaster signing. CURSED.

We're light years from that era, and I'm more excited about this particular roster than I have been in long time.

My contempt for Abe came from his loyalty to Wes. He was successful at NOTHING. I remember watching the news when Juwan left...I was like damn...Back to crap.

Funny thing is...they call Abe cheap for not wanting to pay him. Turns out he wasn't worth it. Yet Abe doesn't get called shrewd for that. It's a double edged sword.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

"remember the day Juwan hit the FA market? I could envision Wes setting his alarm early in anticipation, didnt want to miss his 9:00am call to the agent."

"Meanwhile Pat Riley is pressing speedial at 12:01am, we never had a chance. Had to pull strings with Stern to get Juwan back, only to have it turn out a disaster signing. CURSED."

It wouldn't have mattered if Unseld called Howard at 12:00 and 01 sec. He was probably gone regardless. First, the nasty contract dispute his rookie year had poisoned the well; aside from that, however, there was no way the Wiz would (or should) have made an upfront offer to him anywhere near the $100 mill contract the Heat did. Riley purposely made a poison pill offer to fend the Wiz off. Once those numbers hit the table, he was on the first bus outta town.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Why sign gooden when Blatche and Mcgee are on the roster? I dont think you make that move until you've given up on Blatche.


Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 2:21 PM

then why sign oberto at all. if we're set with blatche and mcgee.

one day blatche and mcgee are undeveloped knuckleheads and the next day they're good enough to keep us from pursuing any good FA bigs. which is it?

If McGee still can't grasp the basics of positioning and proper rotations...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 9:04 AM

I like the idea of Blatche's minutes no longer being a given for him, and Flip making it clear pt will have to be earned
Posted by: divi3 | August 10, 2009 3:27 PM

are these the guys yall are talkin bout

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Funny thing is...they call Abe cheap for not wanting to pay him. Turns out he wasn't worth it. Yet Abe doesn't get called shrewd for that. It's a double edged sword.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:37 PM

what was shrewd about paying a guy 100 mil when u didn't want to in the first place and were right with your initial move. it woulda been shrewd had he not signed howard and he ended up a bust like he did. he ended up looking silly which is why some people look at the signing as a bad deal not the losing out on resigning the first time. it ended up as a catch 22 b/c people woulda called him cheap for being outbid on our own all star player. however he gets judged for howards poor performance post contract. which is why i try to stick to current abe cheapiness . folks just bring it out when they tell me he built the stadium with no city assistance and is so benevolent for saving dc.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"then why sign oberto at all. if we're set with blatche and mcgee."

Because the role you sign a guy like Oberto to play is completely different than the role you sign a guy like Gooden to play. Oberto wasn't signed to be a rotation player. He's a the kind of unspectacular vet that teams like to have at the end of the bench in case of emergency (foul trouble, injury). You won't get much from him, but you know what you will get if he's called upon. You don't sign a guy like Gooden (and pay him the kind of money he makes) to sit out large stretches of the season and play spot duty and clean up, which is likely what Oberto will be doing.

Signing a guy like Gooden would be, essentially, a vote of "no confidence" in Blatche, McGee, McGuire because he'd be taking one of their spots in the rotation. And if he's not, then there's no point having him at his price.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

'one day blatche and mcgee are undeveloped knuckleheads and the next day they're good enough to keep us from pursuing any good FA bigs. which is it?'

I dont think Blatche is ever going to pan out for us, of course I hope I am wrong. However my point is that EG drafted him and still has plans for him, so why go after renown flake Gooden? Wiz have made an investment into AB, and this is the year it either matures or is written off.

And Gooden isnt exactly setting the league on fire, for all we know he comes here and gets sad or whatever is up with him.

Amare was the big name FA pf and we were heavy into trading for him, but decided caron was too important to part with

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Did I read this right? Did we just spend 2 million on a 34 year old reserve who just underwent some form of heart procedure? Are we Clevelend Clinic or the Washington Wizards?

Posted by: wcfanman | August 12, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

what was shrewd about paying a guy 100 mil when u didn't want to in the first place and were right with your initial move. it woulda been shrewd had he not signed howard and he ended up a bust like he did. he ended up looking silly which is why some people look at the signing as a bad deal not the losing out on resigning the first time. it ended up as a catch 22 b/c people woulda called him cheap for being outbid on our own all star player. however he gets judged for howards poor performance post contract. which is why i try to stick to current abe cheapiness . folks just bring it out when they tell me he built the stadium with no city assistance and is so benevolent for saving dc.

He received backlash from people claiming he "didn't want to win" and probably felt pressure to bring him back. When he should've stuck to his guns. Nobody thought it was a godo idea to let him walk and I remember it was on the 10 o'clock news people blasting the Wizards. We had never been good and people thought it was all going to hell.

The arena? He did fund it in a way that most owners don't. And it was the centerpiece of the revitalization downtown. What did he put up? 220 million of his own money? And Gallery Place isn't poppin' now because of it?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

And Gooden isnt exactly setting the league on fire, for all we know he comes here and gets sad or whatever is up with him.

LMAO!!! I forgot all about that.

I'm not as big Amare as everybody else. I figure one max player with knee surgeries is enough. And I really don't understand the get rid of Jamison and bring in Bosh arguments.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

what about warrick guys? don't half ass it. warrick couldn't give us 2 and 2 in case of emergency? and what about a real emergency, haywood, or mcgee, or blatche go down. then you've got a guy that you don't even want to play in the rotation. oberto just isn't a good enough basketball player. his skills and production are a huge drop off from the roster we had put together if any of the above mentioned guys (or a couple) go down. oberto doesn't bring real depth if he's that much worse (2pts 2rebs per game) than anyone you already have.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

gallery place as we know it minus the arena was built through private developers with 50 something million given by the city. i think he also got the land for the stadium for free the 220 mil just built the arena. i agreed with the catch 22 in the juwan situation word for word. like i said let's all do our research on the arena deal and then we can talk about that. i'm probably wrong about some points with the arena but some of yall don't know the whole deal either.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If you really think it's about 2 points and 2 rebounds...you don't get it. Oberto is a role player. Defensively he'll be in position. And won't be noticed much. Which more time than not, is a good thing.

I'd love for Blatche to come out so Warrick can start gunning jumpers. They don't need that. It's enough scoring. Be able to play PF & C, sit down play some defense, get a board or two if you're in and shut up.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

'and what about a real emergency, haywood, or mcgee, or blatche go down.'

If haywood went down, i'd not want to be replacing him at center with 6'9" 220 hakim warrick.

Warrik is another guy you just dont sign until you're done with AB imho

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

gallery place as we know it minus the arena was built through private developers with 50 something million given by the city. i think he also got the land for the stadium for free the 220 mil just built the arena. i agreed with the catch 22 in the juwan situation word for word. like i said let's all do our research on the arena deal and then we can talk about that. i'm probably wrong about some points with the arena but some of yall don't know the whole deal either.

I rarely ever start typing without doing some research. Do you remember what that land was like before he built the arena? The city jumped at a chance to have a stadium built with Abe's money on it. It builds CONFIDENCE in other projects. There would be no Gallery Place without the arena. How can you say he just put up the 220 million? And then call him cheap? After most of these owners hold cities hostage to get money?

I'm looking around now but read up:
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/solving_sprawl_with_basketball.html

That 220 million brought in over 6 billion dollars to the city. Even if the city threw in 50 million, it's more than a return on the investment.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

'That 220 million brought in over 6 billion dollars to the city. Even if the city threw in 50 million, it's more than a return on the investment.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 3:07 PM'

I live 3 blocks from the Verizon Center and I love it, especially as a Wiz season ticket holder.

However...

I would say the arena kicked things off in the best direction, but the US economy takes credit for what we see today moreso than Abe can. Development was coming no matter what, and I do thank Abe for sticking a pro sports venue smack dab in the middle of it rather than another mall-ish doldrum

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I would say the arena kicked things off in the best direction, but the US economy takes credit for what we see today moreso than Abe can. Development was coming no matter what, and I do thank Abe for sticking a pro sports venue smack dab in the middle of it rather than another mall-ish doldrum

Agreed. Development was coming, but the arena expedited ir rapidly. The area wouldn't be what it is without it now.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Oberto playing next to AJ will not be the same thing as playing next to Duncan. If this year comes down to relying on Oberto as our C than pack it in fans because they won't make it out of the first round.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"we can't call Kwame Brown or Blatch lazy, cuz that's a stereotype against black folks right? we can't say nick young has a low IQ (basketball or otherwise)"

I think you can safely call Kwame lazy and Nick Young low-basketball-IQ and nobody will take offense. The scouting websites have already done it in both cases.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 12, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

When are we getting a big man coach?

Baseball teams have hitting, pitching and fielding coaches to help their players develop.

Maybe if we had a big man coach this team would know if AB or JM are better suited playing C or PF.

Out of respect to you GM (who knows maybe we ran same ball in the old days if you ever made it over to the Sligo Creek courts) I won't call the old man cheap for the rest of the season if he will just let Flip go out and sign a good big man coach (not Wes Unseld Jr.) to help these kids. It doesn't go against the cap and Bill Laimbeer is dying to get into coaching at the NBA level. Here is a guy who is a "proven winner" and won by playing against guys that were more talented but he knew how to play the position.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

'If this year comes down to relying on Oberto as our C than pack it in fans because they won't make it out of the first round.'

I dont think Abe, EG, Flip, or Oberto are planning to rely on Kevin Sorbo as our C. As kal has said 1,000x now- Oberto is not going to play very much.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

'Bill Laimbeer is dying to get into coaching at the NBA level. Here is a guy who is a "proven winner" and won by playing against guys that were more talented but he knew how to play the position.'

Maybe Flip is thinking our guys are actually talented and looking for a big man to impart the Dream Shake rather than the nut punch?

Or how about Zo? Too young (or too rich, or too busy) to be a big man coach?

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

no one said it wasn't good. i just said it wasn't this big charity let me save dc move for abe. i luv dc and i definitely luv our mini times square on 7th st. i just don't think Abe building a bigger,better, more accessible arena that makes him money is reason enough to not address his front office and how they do business with FAs and the draft. they may be two separate issues all together.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Coach: Arenas has quickness back

Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- New Washington Wizards coach Flip Saunders says Gilbert Arenas looks fast on the court.

Saunders traveled to Chicago last week and watched Arenas work out and play. Saunders says Arenas' surgically repaired left leg is about four times as strong as it's been.

Says Saunders: "He gets to wherever he wants to get on the court. His quickness is back. If you walked into the gym, you wouldn't know he was hurt."

Wizards president Ernie Grunfeld says he expects Arenas to be ready from Game 1 this season.

Coming off three operations in 1½ years, Arenas played in only two games late last season. He is a three-time All-Star.

Saunders and Grunfeld spoke at Wednesday's news conference to introduce new center-forward Fabricio Oberto.


Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4394425

Posted by: yop32 | August 12, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

This is interesting from ESPN:

"Saunders traveled to Chicago last week and watched Arenas work out and play. Saunders says Arenas' surgically repaired left leg is about four times as strong as it's been."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4394425

Posted by: gidge | August 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

And Gooden isnt exactly setting the league on fire, for all we know he comes here and gets sad or whatever is up with him.

LMAO!!! I forgot all about that.

I'm not as big Amare as everybody else. I figure one max player with knee surgeries is enough. And I really don't understand the get rid of Jamison and bring in Bosh arguments.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | August 12, 2009 2:56 PM

and oberto's a certified baller. maybe he comes here gets nailed to the bench a collects 2 mil that coulda been spent on a player we want to play for us. what does oberto do so well that he's worth 2 mil to NOT PLAY. if everyone agrees that he wion't play much then why sign him? some posts have said blatche needs to be pushed for his mins, is oberto gonna push him?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

yop, I just read that same report on yahoo sports.

It sounds promising, but at the same time what should we expect Saunders to say, "He looks pretty damn bad out there. I don't know if he'll ever return to old form."?

With Grunfeld sitting right there beside him?

At the end of October when the season starts, we'll see if it's bs smoke or real talk.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 12, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

thx for the news on gil

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Flip is thinking our guys are actually talented and looking for a big man to impart the Dream Shake rather than the nut punch?

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 3:45 PM

Both AB and JM have more talent than Bill but neither could hold his jock if they played against him during his prime. Talent only gets you so far, you need to know how to play the position if you are going to make it in the NBA.

I dont think Abe, EG, Flip, or Oberto are planning to rely on Kevin Sorbo as our C. As kal has said 1,000x now- Oberto is not going to play very much.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 3:41 PM

What happens if BH gets hurt like last year? Why would you sign Oberto just to sit on the bench? They brought him in in case BH gets injuried and JM still is clueless on the court than the Wizards season will depend on a 34 year old backup who never averaged more tham 20 minutes a game with a heart problem?

I'm sorry kal said it so he must be able to read the future?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

thx 78 for keeping it 100. some posters here are such homers they try to rationalize the ridiculous things that this franchise does. why sign a guy u don't intend on playing? why sign a guy while ur already in lux tax territory if he's not gonna play? even if oberto's just insurance, he's like the kiss my bumper lady/man. we need Geico.........maybe travler's insurance ( for when we play my man LBJ)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Are you for real? Every team in this league has a couple players they don't expect to play much. Oberto's about as good a big man insurance policy as you'll get for that kind of money.

Posted by: Prazak | August 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

'What happens if BH gets hurt like last year?'

Then JM is our starting center, is that so hard to understand? You can play "what if" about injuries all over the league.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

who backs up jm
how many mins does jm play
i only play what if because it seems season in and season out there is something that takes a bite out of the wiz.BTH missed a whole season with a wrist injury. say it ain't possible. i just don't thinkoberto is the best option as a backup c or third c. i mean if we are out there picking guys, why pick one of the worst one's available.

i'm not too interested in what other teams are doing with their dead weight. i care about the wiz. oberto is dead weight if he's not in the team's plans. and if they don't plan on paying him why pay him 2 mill? these are legit questions from a fan. people been playing "what if" about gil all summer long, isn't that why we added foye to our crowded backcourt? isn't that why people luv the foye move ? because "what if" gil isn't right. c'mon cuz keep it 100, is Oberto a quality player for the Wiz this year?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

lilhollywood10

divi3 and kal are like the guys on fox news they listen to an hour speech and will only comment (out of context may I add)on one line.

'What happens if BH gets hurt like last year?'

Then JM is our starting center, is that so hard to understand? You can play "what if" about injuries all over the league.

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 4:34 PM

You noticed he forgot to add (They brought him in in case BH gets injuried) and JM still is clueless on the court part. But who cares that the guy couldn't get more than 15 mins a game on a team that only won 19 games?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | August 12, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

div knows what he wrote about JM on this very blog so i ain't trippin on this dude tryin to claw his was back in the argument.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 12, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

What did I write about JM? That I think he'll push AB for minutes, but he has a long way to go developmentally?

Or that AB better take note when his 20yr old teamate is picked for Team USA tryouts and he's ignored?

I dont see any contradictions.

I also said I would much rather sign Joe Smiff than Oberto, and that i think Oberto is a flopping europuss.

But he's not the key to our season, so I dont know why you two trip out on him, focusing on his signing like it was the mistake that costs us a championship. it aint

Posted by: divi3 | August 12, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"and if they don't plan on paying him why pay him 2 mill?"

Because he probably wouldn't show up for practice if he didn't get paid something.

Every team in the NBA has guys at the end of their bench who they know, going into Day One of the season, won't be in the rotation or see much PT (if any). It's not like this is a startlingly new development.

Oberto is what he is. The simple reality is that for the money they spent on him they were unlikely to get anyone better. And unless they were getting someone who could be a real difference between winning and not winning a title, it didn't make any sense to spend any more money than that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | August 12, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

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