Wizards Add To Training Camp Roster

Barring some dramatic turn of events, the Wizards will enter the regular season with 14 players under contract. But the team still needed a few extra bodies for training camp in Richmond next week, so they signed free agents Paul Davis and Vincent Grier on Friday. Training camp starts on Tuesday and the Wizards will have four two-a-day practices and single practices on the other two days. They will have their preseason opener against Memphis (and Allen Iverson) on October 6.

The new guys are basically there to provide breathers for winded guys. With Flip Saunders implementing a new system, he will need to spend most of camp teaching the players that will likely be around for the whole season. Neither Davis nor Grier stands much chance of making the team. Davis is probably the best known of new additions, but only because he starred at Michigan State and played himself by getting dunked on in a Dwyane Wade Gatorade commercial a few years ago. He also appeared on the Bravo dating show, "Millionaire Matchmaker."

Davis, a 6-foot-11 center, was drafted in the second round of the 2006 NBA Draft (34th overall) by the Los Angeles Clippers. He appeared in 80 games in three seasons with the Clippers, averaging 2.7 points and 2.0 rebounds.

Grier signed with the Miami Heat as an undrafted free agent in 2006 and played in six preseason games but has yet to crack an NBA regular season roster roster. He played with the Minnesota Timberwolves' summer league team in 2008. He averaged 10 points in 28 games for Cholet Basket of France last season.

But back to Davis, who told the Los Angeles Times that he had no problem getting dunked on -- for the right price. "I got a call from my agent wondering if I wanted to do a commercial with [Wade] and I said, 'Yeah' " Davis told the paper. "He said, 'The only thing is . . . you kind of, sort of, get dunked on.' I said, 'Well how much is it for?' And he told me and I said, 'I'll get dunked on for that.' "

Hear that, JaVale? Caron?



And here's his dream date on Bravo. I never met the guy, but it's not good when his dating advisor says, "He thinks he deserves a perfect 10, but he has no personality." Welcome to Richmond, Paul.



By Michael Lee |  September 25, 2009; 5:33 PM ET
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Comments

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first

Posted by: prescrunk | September 25, 2009 5:46 PM

Paul Davis is a bum. I played against him in high school back in Michigan, you could tell then he didn't have the drive or heart to be great.

Posted by: Roman5 | September 25, 2009 7:08 PM

Do either, especially Davis because of his size, stand any chance of becoming the 15th man?

Posted by: lrmc623 | September 25, 2009 8:23 PM

If we are in competition with the East's elite around the mid-season point, how about this for a trade?

Mike James $6.5 mil (expiring contract)
DeShawn Stevenson $3.9 mil (1yr left, player option)
1st Round Draft Pick

FOR

Carlos Boozer $12.7 mil

Utah get's a 1st rounder and a stopper/shooter in DSteve (*if he is healthy) instead of letting Boozer walk for nothing. We get to rent Boozer for the rest of the season and see whether he can take our team to the next level. Our starting 5 would be dirty (on paper of course..) and our bench would have at least 2-3 players that would start on most other teams.

1 Gil
2 Caron
3 Antawn
4 Booze
5 Brenda

Second Team
1 Critt
2 Foye/Young
3 Miller
4 Blatche
5 McGee

What yall think? Am I dreaming? Don't you guys want to trade for another injury prone vet!?!

Posted by: dfresh58 | September 25, 2009 11:29 PM

Neither Davis nor Grier stands much chance of making the team.

So who cares?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | September 26, 2009 12:59 AM

"What yall think?"

That Boozer is a solid but overrated player and a starting lineup of Arenas, Butler (at the 2), Jamison (at the 3), Boozer, and Haywood would be awful defensively (even by Wizards standards).

"Am I dreaming?"

Yes.

"Don't you guys want to trade for another injury prone vet!?!"

No.

Posted by: kalo_rama | September 26, 2009 2:58 AM

There's pretty much zero chance that anyone will make the team out of training camp.

Posted by: kalo_rama | September 26, 2009 3:00 AM

"There's pretty much zero chance that anyone will make the team out of training camp."

I certainly hope not. I would like to see them keep that slot open for future flexibility into the season.

Through training camp and into the season when things start to work themselves out having an open slot would be advantageous.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 26, 2009 5:02 AM

"If he is under contract and being paid, then rehab is a organizational responsibility, not a player responsibility."

Players frequently use their own doctors/trainers (or doctor's trainers suggested to them by other players) as opposed to team facilities. As a matter of fact Grover, the guy everyone is fawning over for getting Arenas back to his "old self" does not work for the Wizards and is not accountable to the Wizards organization.

Posted by: kalo_rama | September 25, 2009 1:29 PM

The fact that players use their own trainers/doctors, or other staffs, instead of their own Teams, does not absolve the Team of protecting there investment and ensuring that proper rehab is taking place even if by non-Team entities.

If the player does not wish to use the Teams staff and seeks alternatives, the organization should ensure that the player is not usings quack's or using inappropriate rehab procedures.

The Teams own medical staff should have monitered whatever Gilbert decided to do or not do. It Gilbert's decision's were determined to be inappropriate rehab then the Teams medical staff should have known that and apprised the Team. Being apprised, the Team should have taken action.

For the Team not to take action is negligence, especially since we now know that Gilbert used inappropriate rehab procedures and the Wizards medical staff should have known.

We can fault Gilbert all we want for being noble in trying to rehabilitate himself, but the Wizard organization deserves greater blame for not protecting its mega million dollar investment especially if, emphasizing the word if, their own medical staff apprised them that Gilbert was not rehabbing correctly.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 26, 2009 6:29 AM

Starters on Opening Night:
PG-Gil
SG-CB
C-Breden
SF-Antwan
PF-BLATCE

Trust Me!

Posted by: TheGodFather | September 24, 2009 6:53 PM

I don't think there is much chance of this happening--this year. That said, it would FANTASTIC if it did. It would mean that Blatche really, really stepped up his play in preseason and earned it. With all the bold predictions floating around about this team, I think it NEEDS a breakout year from Blatche to be great. I think the team can be good with him doing the same thing he's always done, but to really become one of the top teams in the east, we need his effort, focus and passion to match his talent---every night, not once a week.

Posted by: psdfx | September 26, 2009 6:51 AM

"The fact that players use their own trainers/doctors, or other staffs, instead of their own Teams, does not absolve the Team of protecting there investment and ensuring that proper rehab is taking place even if by non-Team entities.

If the player does not wish to use the Teams staff and seeks alternatives, the organization should ensure that the player is not usings quack's or using inappropriate rehab procedures.

The Teams own medical staff should have monitered whatever Gilbert decided to do or not do. It Gilbert's decision's were determined to be inappropriate rehab then the Teams medical staff should have known that and apprised the Team. Being apprised, the Team should have taken action.

For the Team not to take action is negligence, especially since we now know that Gilbert used inappropriate rehab procedures and the Wizards medical staff should have known.

We can fault Gilbert all we want for being noble in trying to rehabilitate himself, but the Wizard organization deserves greater blame for not protecting its mega million dollar investment especially if, emphasizing the word if, their own medical staff apprised them that Gilbert was not rehabbing correctly.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 26, 2009 6:29 AM "

How do you think Gilby reacts to authority figures?

I guess you totally missed the fact that Gilby threatened to walk to a team for less money, after he opted out, if he didn't get his way, so EG had no choice but to handle him with kid gloves.

And, EJ is not a trainer or a doctor. If you have a player who grandstands and makes an entrance onto the court without the coach's prior knowledge, what is he to do but to play him?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 8:17 AM

Gilbertology is a difficult subject. I'm just glad he's healthy again and feeling great. Forget the "true point guard" stuff. Don't expect Flip to transform him into an assists machine at the expense of scoring. He's not being paid $111 million to average 10 assists unless he can get 22-25 points to go with it. That misleading 10:1 assists-to turnover ratio last season was just an experiment to get his feet wet in a real game. It remains more exciting and more sensible to see him scoring than to see him dishing.

Posted by: low1 | September 26, 2009 11:27 AM

88er,

1) He seems to be responding quite well to the current coaching staff.

2) Responding poorly to his threat to walk does not give the Team a pass. What Team would sign a player with an infirm leg?

If the reports are true the Wizards had more leverage than they thought.

Apparently, it is clear based on what you say about handling him with kid gloves that the Wizards and its own medical staff did not know the severity of his poorly rehabbed knee.

3) Gilbert showing up to play and EJ not knowing about it is the epitomy of a Coach that is not in control. There is no way that any Coach worth his salt would not have regular up-to-date reports on his star player.

I had not started blogging when that incident ocurred, but I took the view and still do that it showed how bad EJ was as a Coach. It falls under, off the court player management, in which Eddie Jordan seemed to care less about.

Is one of the reasons why I was an adamant Fire Eddie Banner Waver.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 26, 2009 11:32 AM


Posted by: low1

Forget the "true point guard" stuff. Don't expect Flip to transform him into an assists machine at the expense of scoring. He's not being paid $111 million to average 10 assists unless he can get 22-25 points to go with it. That misleading 10:1 assists-to turnover ratio last season was just an experiment to get his feet wet in a real game. It remains more exciting and more sensible to see him scoring than to see him dishing."

No, No, No!!! I could not disagree with you more. He is being paid to bring a championship to DC. The path to that gaol is not the exciting Gil of the past who averaged 29 and 5 (or whatever he averaged). He has the skills, and now most importantly the supporting cast to be a 25 point 10 assist man who will lead his team deep into the playoffs. Anything less than that is not acceptable. I think Caron knows it, AJ knows it, Flip knows it. EG knows it. I HOPE that Gilbert knows it. The key to success is all in his head: What does he want more? To be 1st team all NBA or win a ring?

And the irony is that if this team wins 54 games, plays deep into the spring then he will get all the kudos he would deserve even if he only averaged 23-24 points per game.

Posted by: stanlong23 | September 26, 2009 2:54 PM

Let me add: The fact that Flip, Caron, AJ are all saying the right things in their pre-camp interviews, truly has me on the edge of my seat. I just hope that Gil has matured and is listening to them.

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | September 26, 2009 2:58 PM

"Let me add: The fact that Flip, Caron, AJ are all saying the right things in their pre-camp interviews, truly has me on the edge of my seat. I just hope that Gil has matured and is listening to them.

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | September 26, 2009 2:58 PM "

You must impress easily...what else would you expect them to say?

I wouldn't get too excited until 2/3 of the season is over and they're at least the 3rd seed.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 4:05 PM

"Posted by: low1

Forget the "true point guard" stuff. Don't expect Flip to transform him into an assists machine at the expense of scoring. He's not being paid $111 million to average 10 assists unless he can get 22-25 points to go with it. That misleading 10:1 assists-to turnover ratio last season was just an experiment to get his feet wet in a real game. It remains more exciting and more sensible to see him scoring than to see him dishing."

No, No, No!!! I could not disagree with you more. He is being paid to bring a championship to DC. The path to that gaol is not the exciting Gil of the past who averaged 29 and 5 (or whatever he averaged). He has the skills, and now most importantly the supporting cast to be a 25 point 10 assist man who will lead his team deep into the playoffs. Anything less than that is not acceptable. I think Caron knows it, AJ knows it, Flip knows it. EG knows it. I HOPE that Gilbert knows it. The key to success is all in his head: What does he want more? To be 1st team all NBA or win a ring?

And the irony is that if this team wins 54 games, plays deep into the spring then he will get all the kudos he would deserve even if he only averaged 23-24 points per game.

Posted by: stanlong23 | September 26, 2009 2:54 PM "

Gilby was averaging 30 pts/game and Les BouleS still couldn't get out of the 1st round while the offense grounded to a halt. Now then what?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 4:06 PM

"88er,

1) He seems to be responding quite well to the current coaching staff.

2) Responding poorly to his threat to walk does not give the Team a pass. What Team would sign a player with an infirm leg?

If the reports are true the Wizards had more leverage than they thought.

Apparently, it is clear based on what you say about handling him with kid gloves that the Wizards and its own medical staff did not know the severity of his poorly rehabbed knee.

3) Gilbert showing up to play and EJ not knowing about it is the epitomy of a Coach that is not in control. There is no way that any Coach worth his salt would not have regular up-to-date reports on his star player.

I had not started blogging when that incident ocurred, but I took the view and still do that it showed how bad EJ was as a Coach. It falls under, off the court player management, in which Eddie Jordan seemed to care less about.

Is one of the reasons why I was an adamant Fire Eddie Banner Waver.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 26, 2009 11:32 AM "

1. Oh you've noticed the new coaching staff walking on eggshells too?

2. And that's why you're Larry from Clinton and not the GM in charge of making sure the highest scoring player on the team returns.

I guess also that you didn't get the memo that Golden State offered him a contract, and I believe the Clips wanted to also.

And apparently Gilby knew everything about his bum knee since he said the parachute technique and running the limp out was working.

3) Whatever, and I guess you're new to the NBA where you don't know the players with the large guaranteed contracts control the team, not the coach....unless you're Phil Jackson or Gregg Popovich.

Go tell Mike Brown to get his boy Lebron under control. Mike Brown would get a first coach ticket out of town from ownership.


Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 4:14 PM

Woo Hoo! It all gets started on Monday! Go Wiz!!!

Posted by: ptp23 | September 26, 2009 5:15 PM

paul davis knocked the terps out of the tourney the year after they won it all almost single handed. good college player.

Posted by: rice208 | September 26, 2009 5:19 PM

Of course Gil is being paid to bring a championship to DC. Disagree all you want but that championship is even less of a reality with him trying to become a pass-first, traditional point guard.

Unless they are a top 4 seed going into the last month of the season, then all this championship excitement is in vain.

Posted by: low1 | September 26, 2009 8:35 PM

"Of course Gil is being paid to bring a championship to DC. Disagree all you want but that championship is even less of a reality with him trying to become a pass-first, traditional point guard.

Unless they are a top 4 seed going into the last month of the season, then all this championship excitement is in vain.

Posted by: low1 | September 26, 2009 8:35 PM "

What makes you think a shoot first Gilby will get the team anywhere? The last time he was averaging 30 pts/game, Les BouleS got eliminated from the 1st round while the offense stalled.

The team ended up with the same record while he was out with a bum knee.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 8:42 PM

New to the blogging but have been reading your comments for some time. I've noticed though, DC_Man88 enjoys a good argument just for the sake of arguing!

Come on season!

Posted by: sbowie1 | September 26, 2009 9:24 PM

A shoot-first Gil may not get the team past the first round, but my bet is that a passive Gil is worse. Now I could be proven wrong and if I am, then so be it.

Posted by: low1 | September 26, 2009 10:05 PM

"A shoot-first Gil may not get the team past the first round, but my bet is that a passive Gil is worse. Now I could be proven wrong and if I am, then so be it.

Posted by: low1 | September 26, 2009 10:05 PM "

I've never considered John Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, or Steve Nash passive.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 11:09 PM

"New to the blogging but have been reading your comments for some time. I've noticed though, DC_Man88 enjoys a good argument just for the sake of arguing!

Come on season!

Posted by: sbowie1 | September 26, 2009 9:24 PM "

And I have noticed that your attempt to make a point is really just an attempt.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 11:11 PM

DC_man88 is the MAN!!!!!!!!

Posted by: sbowie1 | September 26, 2009 11:14 PM

"DC_man88 is the MAN!!!!!!!!

Posted by: sbowie1 | September 26, 2009 11:14 PM "

Yes, I'm your daddy. ;D

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 26, 2009 11:30 PM

Can someone please name a point guard of the last 10-20 NBA Champions who averaged 10 assists? Of the point guards listed above only Isiah and Magic have championships. Magic had superiorly, talented teams, in addition to being 6'9. As good assist men as Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, John Stockton, Steve Nash, etc. are none of them have been on a championship team. Gilbert needs to be what makes him who he is, an all-star combo guard who can score. Good talent, coaching and a little bit of good fortune wins championships. This is the most talented Wiz roster Gil has had since he's been here and we have just as good a chance to win a championship as any other team, without averaging 10 assists.

Posted by: garrybrown | September 27, 2009 12:23 AM

Garrybrown,

You would be right. Don't where this 10-assist formula for Gilbert came from that supposed to be the right path to Wizard success.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 27, 2009 6:26 AM

edit, Don't know where...

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 27, 2009 6:27 AM

Let me clarify passive. There have been complaints (when Kwame Brown was here and maybe others?) about Gil shooting too much. Gil responded the next game by becoming “passive”. He went to the extreme of immaturely showing up the whiners by refusing to shoot it for most of the game. I think they still won, but it was against a bad Raptors team. That's an extreme case of what I mean about him being passive and the Wiz will suffer if Gil goes into that kind of passive mode. Kobe was passive (no shot attempts in the second half?) in the playoffs against the Suns a few years ago and it only made matters worse for the Lakers.

I'm talking about passive where a player literally quits shooting. I doubt any of the big-name point guards were passive to the point of never shooting. It's like freezing oneself out of the game. If they try to transform Gil into a traditional pass-first point guard or try to get him to break Chris Paul's assist total every night, he might get lulled into these bouts of passiveness where he will not shoot it and that will hurt the team more than help it. It is not Gil's natural game to be a pass-first player and there is no problem with that as long as the team is built around him a certain way.

Gil does not have to average 30 points or lead the league in scoring, but he also can't be prone to bouts of passiveness. As with any star player, he needs a good supporting cast in order to go far in the playoffs. He could avg 24-27 points even with a very good supporting cast. So I believe Gil still needs to do his scoring and have an above-average supporting cast. The current supporting cast looks better than before but I'm not sure how good it is because they have not had a chance to mesh yet. If they can get further in the playoffs with Gil averaging less than 20 points, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Posted by: low1 | September 27, 2009 7:10 AM

...heard an interesting profile of Bill Lambier on NPR yesterday, he was recently hired as an assistant coach for Minnesota. I didnt know led the NBA in rebounding at one time. Impressive track record as coach in WNBA and much more intelligent than I realized.

Might have been nice to have him as the Wiz big man coach this year. Will be interesting to see what he can do with OPech...

Posted by: oddjob1 | September 27, 2009 7:54 AM

"Can someone please name a point guard of the last 10-20 NBA Champions who averaged 10 assists? Of the point guards listed above only Isiah and Magic have championships. Magic had superiorly, talented teams, in addition to being 6'9. As good assist men as Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, John Stockton, Steve Nash, etc. are none of them have been on a championship team. Gilbert needs to be what makes him who he is, an all-star combo guard who can score. Good talent, coaching and a little bit of good fortune wins championships. This is the most talented Wiz roster Gil has had since he's been here and we have just as good a chance to win a championship as any other team, without averaging 10 assists.

Posted by: garrybrown | September 27, 2009 12:23 AM "

Can anybody tell me when was the last time a shoot first point guard averaging 30 pts/game led his team to championship glory?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 27, 2009 9:11 AM

I don't think it is as important who is making the asssists as it is how many the team gets. In college, I did a regression analysis where we studied how many times the winner of an NBA team had more total assists than the loser. It was over 80% I believe.

Through the regression we determined that the relationship was not causal, but corrollary: ie: Both winning and having more assists were the result of another factor or factors. One of those factors was that often the winning team had a pretty significantly higher shooting percentage, thus, a dish resulted in an assist more often. This often was the result of more shots being taken at closer range.

Another factor that was pretty much unprovable in statistical terms was that the winning team had better player and were more team oriented.

So, DCman - pretty much everyone but you believes that this team is better than the one 2 years ago or 3 years ago, so that should help team assists a little. If the players we have now can shoot as their career numbers indicate, we should be ahead of most of the teams we have had in the past few years, but we need to establish an inside presence (BH, JM, AB...are you listening?)

The teamwork is the coach and players job, so we'll see.

Posted by: Blurred | September 27, 2009 9:45 AM

Oh yeah...My original point above, is that if Gil can get 5-6 assists, Foye can get 5-6, caron gets 4, Jamison gets 4, Crit gets 4, thats like 22-24 assists a game, which is the upper end of team assists, and that doesn't count the odd assist from Miller, Deshawn, McGee and Blatche.

Posted by: Blurred | September 27, 2009 9:49 AM

Good stuff Blurred.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 27, 2009 10:19 AM

"So, DCman - pretty much everyone but you believes that this team is better than the one 2 years ago or 3 years ago, so that should help team assists a little. If the players we have now can shoot as their career numbers indicate, we should be ahead of most of the teams we have had in the past few years, but we need to establish an inside presence (BH, JM, AB...are you listening?)

The teamwork is the coach and players job, so we'll see.

Posted by: Blurred | September 27, 2009 9:45 AM "

I didn't say the team wouldn't be better with all bodies healthy.

I do think the team will be better, easily better than 19 games won (maybe ~45-50 games), but that doesn't mean the players will gel as a TEAM and have playoff success.

It may mean success based on individual accomplishments and more buzzer beater prayers, but still missing may be team chemistry and instead, a lot of standing around and watching people jack up long J's.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 27, 2009 11:07 AM

Gil is going to take the shoot he has to take.I can not expect him to be passive.To me he is passing the ball, it was the cnfidence of his teammates that he used to get the ball again.As a combo gard i will continue to see more shoots from him for washington to be better.I do not expect him to treat the current roster like the 2004and 2005 roster.The current roster is full of shooters, we have MM,Af,Ny who can take the ball to the rim and do some thing good for the team.
I am not expecting him to be the assist man, i would rather expect from him to play a little better defense,improve his assist turn over ratio and improve his shooting %.If he is explossive ,he will be prone to be double teamed, he just need to make the right decision what to do with the ball on this situation.

Posted by: gtefferra | September 27, 2009 12:01 PM

The 10 assist comment came from me and I still stand by it. Now I have to say that I feel somewhat uncomfortable because for probably the first time in my years on this site have 88 passionately defending my side.

I am not a Gil hater, but I believe that the best thing Gil can do with this team is to get his 24-25 points a game while feeding and making happy everybody else. He will certainly have the ball in his hands and I foresee a lot of easy fast breaks. If he is NOT seeking to pass I anticipate some disgruntled teammates because they realize that the potential that is there. They want to win a title, not watch Gil get awards. And they know that he can do it because when he decides to he does. My argument is that the best way for Gil to get the recognition he desires is to become the teams highest scorer and highest assist man. A lofty goal? Yes. But he has the talent to do this. The only question is his desire.

To me the only thing that would hinder this if he does have this mind change is if we were to struggle getting defensive boards as a team and therefore can't run as much as we want.

MJ made this transition to trust his teammates. So did Kobe. But they weren't point guards. If Gil comes to this conclusion I think he can get 10 dimes per game with this supporting cast. That is still my position.

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | September 27, 2009 9:07 PM

Can anybody tell me when was the last time a shoot first point guard averaging 30 pts/game led his team to championship glory?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 27, 2009 9:11 AM

True point guards who primarily look to pass are no longer the key to a championship team. The whole dynamic of a championship team changed with Michael Jordan when Phil Jackson relied on MJ and Pippen to initiate the offense. You only need to look at the first and second year championship teams of 91 and 92 in which Jordan avg 31 a game and 5.5 assists and Pipen Average 6.2 assist in 91 which led the Bulls. The rest of those champuonships teams were similar with both players being 1,2 in assists and Jordan averaged over 30. Most of the pundits had stated a scoring champ can't win a championship and we know the rest of that story.

But it didn't stop there, when Jordan retired the first time, the Rockets won back to back championships with an offense that relied on a non traditional point guard predicated on throwing the ball inside to Olajuwan, waiting for the double team and surrounding the 3 point line with dead eye shooters. Spurs, until Tony Parker who is a shoot first point guard had average players at the position (Avery Johnson). Who was the point guard when Miami won? Jason Williams? Gary Payton? Yeah-in name only, the offense went through D Wade. Cleveland will win eventually and LeBron will average 30 and 9 and the offense will going through him. I would argue in today's game, you can win with a player averaging 30 at any positon if the rest of the peices fit.

Posted by: ptp23 | September 27, 2009 10:14 PM

according to my sources AB is determine to be very consistant this year. And If he isnt starting by the allstar break at PF I would be very suprised. The time has come for him too step up and assume a larger role from Flip.If he isn't starting his minutes will increase dramatically this season. Flip has always had a versitle big that he can run the high post game thru such as KG and Rasheed. I think he will be utilized at the high post a lot. Where he can become a triple threat option from the free throw line bye either shooting, driving or dishing the rock based on the mismatches. that flip sees. This will allow dray to put all his skills to work providing he can cut down on his turnovers. Which is something he is focusing in this year.

Posted by: TheGodFather | September 27, 2009 10:44 PM

"

according to my sources AB is determine to be very consistant this year. And If he isnt starting by the allstar break at PF I would be very suprised. The time has come for him too step up and assume a larger role from Flip.If he isn't starting his minutes will increase dramatically this season. Flip has always had a versitle big that he can run the high post game thru such as KG and Rasheed. I think he will be utilized at the high post a lot. Where he can become a triple threat option from the free throw line bye either shooting, driving or dishing the rock based on the mismatches. that flip sees. This will allow dray to put all his skills to work providing he can cut down on his turnovers. Which is something he is focusing in this year.

Posted by: TheGodFather | September 27, 2009 10:44 PM "

If Gilby remains healthy, I predict that AB will get lost in the shuffle once again.

That shuffle includes a deck for dudes like Gilby, Foye, Miller, Caron, NY, and AJ who will be getting their fair share of buckets.

AB is a guy who thrives when the offense runs through him. He's always looking for the pass or the set up. He's not a catch and go kind of guy. He plays like a point forward. If someone else is trying to run the show, or hogging the ball, he just retreats like a frightened turtle.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 27, 2009 11:51 PM

"True point guards who primarily look to pass are no longer the key to a championship team. The whole dynamic of a championship team changed with Michael Jordan when Phil Jackson relied on MJ and Pippen to initiate the offense. You only need to look at the first and second year championship teams of 91 and 92 in which Jordan avg 31 a game and 5.5 assists and Pipen Average 6.2 assist in 91 which led the Bulls. The rest of those champuonships teams were similar with both players being 1,2 in assists and Jordan averaged over 30. Most of the pundits had stated a scoring champ can't win a championship and we know the rest of that story.

But it didn't stop there, when Jordan retired the first time, the Rockets won back to back championships with an offense that relied on a non traditional point guard predicated on throwing the ball inside to Olajuwan, waiting for the double team and surrounding the 3 point line with dead eye shooters. Spurs, until Tony Parker who is a shoot first point guard had average players at the position (Avery Johnson). Who was the point guard when Miami won? Jason Williams? Gary Payton? Yeah-in name only, the offense went through D Wade. Cleveland will win eventually and LeBron will average 30 and 9 and the offense will going through him. I would argue in today's game, you can win with a player averaging 30 at any positon if the rest of the peices fit.

Posted by: ptp23 | September 27, 2009 10:14 PM "

Why are you using MJ in your discussion? MJ was a multitalented baller who played above the rim, and was an all league defender every year.

Gilby can get the occasional dunk, but he's a small shooting guard that masquerades as a point guard.

BTW, Kobe averaged almost 27 pts last season and won a ring, but he also plays above the rim and is an all league defender.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 27, 2009 11:55 PM

I believe I gave several other examples besides MJ. My point is that recent history has shown that a traditional pass first point guard is no longer key to a Championship team. Kobe and Michael were high scoring guards in which the offense essentially went through them I think we can agree on that. The Lakers championship teams prove that point as well. Kobe Bryant almost averaged 30 as you pointed out and yet he also was their assist leader as the offense played off of him after he learned to trust his teammates while still getting his points.

Posted by: ptp23 | September 28, 2009 12:30 AM

The thing about point guards is a topic that's come up before around here. As much as I admire such players, it does seem that a really good center is more often the path to a title. The Bulls being the obvious exception -- Jordan and Pippen, who took over the bulk of the point guard chores, were both principal scorers.

The point being, I can't see any reason why the Wiz can't function very well with Gilbert having the ball in his hands 80% of the time. He's a good passer and the threat of his jump shot is enough to draw the defense to him and away from the other scorers.

Last year, during that brief period when Mike James was playing well, the Wiz seemed to improve quite a bit. When his shot stopped dropping, things changed for the worse. The team didn't have an effective SG to compensate. Hopefully, this year they will.

The real danger remains the same as last year: that Gilbert will get hurt.


Posted by: Samson151 | September 28, 2009 9:47 AM

BTW, I recall one interview Bobby Knight gave when he was coaching Indiana, to the effect that he really didn't care if he had a talented passing PG as long as the offense ran the way he wanted it to. His goal was to score the damn points. He went on to say he'd be perfectly happy starting five guys 6'10" and taller if they could bring the ball up and set the screens.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 28, 2009 9:52 AM

Isiah Thomas never played above the rim, was not a great individual defender, and was his team's leading scorer.

Three consecutive Finals appearances, two titles.

Posted by: kalo_rama | September 28, 2009 12:50 PM

"Isiah Thomas never played above the rim, was not a great individual defender, and was his team's leading scorer.

Three consecutive Finals appearances, two titles.

Posted by: kalo_rama | September 28, 2009 12:50 PM "

Isiah Thomas also averaged 9.3 assists during his career and was the clear leader of the team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | September 28, 2009 5:52 PM

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