Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: MrMichaelLee and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Bobcats 92, Wizards 76


It's one thing for the Wizards (5-10) to have a losing record after the first month of the season. It's another thing that the Wizards have been hammered in almost all of their losses this season. They have lost eight games by double digits this season, with the last embarrassment coming at home against Charlotte -- a team that arrived at Verizon Center with zero road wins.

But the Bobcats made themselves feel right at home on Saturday night, as they never trailed and built a 24-point lead in the second half. A loss like that -- especially after the team had played so well the night before in Miami -- should seriously hurt. And, for some players, I'm sure it did. It was just a little shocking to enter the locker room and see Nick Young playfully arguing with Gilbert Arenas over a shipment of Louis Vuitton shoes near Arenas's locker stall. After a game like that?

I know it's early in the season, but you figure some things can wait.

Flip Saunders took responsibility for the loss, claiming that he must not be doing something right if his team follows up a brilliant performance in Miami with an absolute stinker. Saunders played all 12 players on his roster, trying odd combinations, to see what would work. Nothing did. In the third quarter, Saunders had a lineup that featured Earl Boykins, Fabricio Oberto, Dominic McGuire, Caron Butler and Andray Blatche -- just the group he surely envisioned having to call on to bail out the team when it fell behind by 22 points in the third period.

"I wasn't good tonight, because when you fall behind like that, you start searching and you're trying to throw all people out there on the floor. We couldn't get anything to sustain," Saunders said. "You can't mess with the basketball gods. If you don't play hard it gets you in the end."

But Saunders really had a tough night finding anyone to give him anything. How many more nights can he expect Antawn Jamison to get zero rebounds? How many more nights can he expect Arenas to attempt zero free throws? Saunders probably won't have to worry about Jamison, but for the first time this season, he expressed some concern over Arenas, who has started to regress of late. Arenas finished with just six points and six assists and cannot figure which direction he wants to go right now -- or if he's capable of going in any direction with confidence. He's scored just 15 total points his past two games.

"What do you expect me to do? Go out there and score 30?" Arenas asked after going just 3 of 11 from the floor. "I'm not going to go out there and try to score 30 when we have a lot of offensive players here. I'll take the shots I feel are sufficient for me. Other than that, the offensive load's on everybody else."

Saunders said after the game that he hasn't held back Arenas at time this season and blamed fatigue from playing heavy minutes early in the season for Arenas's recent slump. has urged him to be aggressive, something that Arenas confirmed.

"He keeps telling me to be aggressive, but I don't know. I haven't been that guy in two years," Arenas said. "So I'm just trying to find my way that I'm comfortable again and getting the trust of the team. Right now, I don't know if these guys trust me to take 10 straight shots. I don't know if I trust myself to take 10 straight shots. So for now I just pick my spots while Nick comes along, while Caron [Butler] gets his mojo back and while waiting for Twan."

The most disconcerting part of the night, is the players couldn't agree how they lost track of everything they did well the previous two games. You could search for excuses as to why the Wizards played like their legs were stuck in cement for an entire game, but it wouldn't really explain how poorly this team looked against Charlotte.

Asked why the team lacked energy from the start, reserve forward Andray Blatche said that we needed to ask the starters. "I'm just a role player. I play my role. I do what I'm told and that's it," Blatche said. A few minutes later, DeShawn Stevenson said it was up to the bench to provide energy for the starters when coming off a tough back-to-back game.

Caron Butler was asked if there was a need for a greater sense urgency for this team and replied, "The last three games, we won two games. I'll take that, and let's start another streak."

Jamison said the team should want more. "The question at hand is, are we going to sacrifice? Are we going to be focused enough to do this night in and night out. Not just big games or when our back is really against the wall. How do we handle success, when we win two or three in a row? Do we do the necessary hard work that we need to do to take it to five or six? Or are we going to be satisfied with the up-and-down play? I don't think we're going to be satisfied at all."

They certainly can't be satisfied now.

By Michael Lee  |  November 28, 2009; 11:58 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Bobcats (6-9) at Wizards (5-9)
Next: Morning brew [Updated]

Comments

Back to the drawing board.

Posted by: ptp23 | November 29, 2009 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Give credit too where credit is due -- the Bobcats are a really, really good defensive team. They forced the Wizards to play their game. The Stephen Jackson addition is looking like it might kick them up another level. The Southeast Division right now is looking like the toughest division in the NBA. The Wizards are going to have to up their game just to finish middle of the pack within their own division.

Posted by: JPRS | November 29, 2009 12:46 AM | Report abuse


This game's result was about effort and had very little if anything to with the new system, new roles, etc. Enough with the excuses.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 29, 2009 12:56 AM | Report abuse

agreed. that was a pathetic effort from most of the team. guys were literally playing at half speed.

of course a lot of open shots weren't falling, but that when you have to get aggressive and take it inside, draw some fouls. arenas, butler should be driving more instead of taking contested jumpers.

arenas looks awful right now. i think he still has the talent to put up 30 on any given night, but his confidence and his decision making are poor at the moment. i dont know what the answer is.

this team, more than anything, needs constant motivation. jamison and miller seem to be the force behind that.

Posted by: jesc126 | November 29, 2009 1:51 AM | Report abuse

They are a band of babies led by GA, pathetic!
If GIlbert can not figure out what he is supposed to be doing for 110 million,let's just show him the door.
I can understand AB being pissed, but Flipper can not cajole these infants.
It is beyond time to cut bait and clean house and yes start over. We are never going to win with these attitude retards.
Charachter is paramount and totally lacking.
Good bye ga,bh,ds,cb. Time to go young and see what we can get if anything for these motley crew of veterans.
Please bite the bullet, pun intended, and clean house before we fans do the same!!!

Posted by: mricklen | November 29, 2009 2:48 AM | Report abuse

I seriously don't get this team. Blatche can say what he wants as far as I'm concerned bc he worked tonight and has virtually every game. I'm getting sick of CB and quotes like "well we won two out of three." What kind of idiotic comment is that? How about the fans show up for two out of every three home games you moron!? Can the average American half bake their job every third day without getting fired!? CB, you are rapidly becoming my least favorite player and rather worthless on the court as well.

Jamison of course is the only player on the team that knows what to say and means what he says. But, I don't know what to think anymore. NY is back to being clueless after just two starts. This team just makes me want to let out a big sigh!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 4:50 AM | Report abuse

After we beat Miami the other night and I said who's next and the answer was Charlotte, I really did not want to play them.

I knew we could beat them, but Charlotte is really a hard matchup for this Team.

Defensively, Larry Brown always coaches his Teams to stop/minimize the other Teams strengths.

It does not appear that any of the Wizard players, nor even Flip realized that is what Charlotte does.

Charlotte is uncanny at getting you to play there game and unless you address that and force the issue it will be extremely hard to play well against them.

The Wizards found that out and that's why I think Flip took the blame for this loss.

You cannot take your normal mojo against Charlotte. You have to breakdown there gamplan.

We did not do that.

We looked bad, but I still feel somthing in my gut for this Team as I stated after the Miami win.

Look for th Wizards to start winning consistently as of now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Some one said something about scouting and for Charlotte, understanding the information, was not taken seriously.

Either, you are on your game so well that it dosen't matter what Charlotte is trying to do, or you had better be breaking down there gameplan.

We did neither.

That is coaching and it also falls into the intelligence of the players on the court. The point guard or the leader of the Team must realize what the other Team is doing on the floor and overcome it.

Arenas, Jamison, The Big Three, neither of them addressed what Charlotte was doing.

I hope this was an anomily and we will not be caught with our pants around our ankles again.

It wasn't necessarily intensity and desire, it was not knowing intellectually what needed to be done to beat Charlotte.

Larry Brown's Team's do what they do very well. When you play them you have to address the way they play.

If you do not address there style of play and your own play is not as dominant as their's, Larry Brown will beat you.

I am disappointed that Jamison did not realize that they were being beat by a system.

A system, not necessarily the Tar Heel sytem, but a by-product of it in Larry Brown.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Michael Lee,

You should have left that shoe story out. It means absolutely nothing as to whether the Wizards win or lose basketball games.

To indicate that light hearted banter over a pair of shoes showed a lack of concern of the loosing the game by Arenas and Young is disengenuios.

"Shocking", you can't be serious.

Always, think before you speak/write Michael Lee.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

The 1/4 offense with Arenas as the only ball-handler is easy to defend against and even easier to create turnovers.

Flip needs to face reality. Gilbert needs a combo guard next to him to share the ball-handling load. This will cut down on the team turnovers and get Arenas better shots.

On this roster, that means Foye should play alongside Arenas. With playing time, Foye will gain confidence and his performance will improve.

The second backcourt unit can be Boykins and Young for now. DS' minutes should be limited. He's a game killer.

Flip also needs to give AB and JM more minutes. See the stats on 82games.com.

AJ can put some minutes in at SF.

Why doesn't Flip hold a on-line chat session with the fans so he can be exposed to five years of dealing with the reality of this organization and its players?

Posted by: Izman | November 29, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

There's always disappointment over a loss.

Thats not the issue here.

Charlotte played physically and the Wizards, as they have done for the last 6 to 7 years, meekly rolled over.

Reminds me of line from Springsteen's "Born In The USA"...."end up like a dog that's been beat too much, till you spend half your life just covering up"...

It's the soft and gutless nature that this franchise cannot overcome. None of the "Leaders" on this team respond well to physical play.

That appears to be something Larry Brown figured out about this team long ago...

Posted by: bozomoeman | November 29, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"I wasn't good tonight, because when you fall behind like that, you start searching and you're trying to throw all people out there on the floor. We couldn't get anything to sustain," Saunders said. "You can't mess with the basketball gods. If you don't play hard it gets you in the end."

It is evident from these comments that there wasn't any specific gameplan to beat Charlotte.

The Wizards thought it was just good enough to just show up with your regular stuff and play.

Against some Teams in the NBA, maybe, but not against Charlotte.

Charlotte is a top defensive Team in points allowed. This is not by accident, it is by design.

No where in Flips comments is it evident that the Charlotte Team controlled the Wizard offense throughout the entire game.

He indicates that the effort was not there. It wasn't the effort. It was the fact that you must have a specific gameplan to overcome Charlotte's defense and score.

For if you do not and the Wizards did not, then the odds that Charlotte will beat you are significantly enhanced.

As pointed out, Charlotte is fast becoming a Team you have to gameplan for, just like the top echelon Teams.

One sportster rates Charlotte as being the 5th best Team in the East right now.

The Wizards have not recognized this about Charlotte, for if they had, they would have gameplanned specifically to beat them.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Flip is the problem. He's been in 1 1/2 trainging camps and still can't figure out who should be playing. He's 1 level up from Tapscott and both are Ernies guys. Flip let me help you out because your assistant coaches aren't. This team is slow in it's current setup and NC exploited that. Hey Ernie I sure would like to have Jennings with that 5th pick. I sure would like a real PF with that 2nd round pick.

1. Gil
2. Young
3. Jamison
4. Blatche
5. Haywood

BENCH
- Earl for Gil
- Foye or Miller (always hurt)for Young
- Butler or McGuire for Jamison
- McGee for Haywood and don't wait to long
- Oberto and Stevenson should have to have a ticket to get into the arena.
- move Jamison to PF on limited bases.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | November 29, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

The NBA baskeball season is a marathon, not a sprint.

Despite the ugly loss against the Bobcats, the Wizards are beginning to play better basketaball.

I like the idea of limiting Gilbert's minutes until he finds a way to integrate his skills into the overall offensive flow. The same can be said of Caron Butler. I expect Butler to return to his normal averages of 18 ppg and 6 boards. Antawn Jamison finally had a bad game. Don't expect to see that happen on a regular basis.

If Nick Young and Andray Blatche are managed properly, the Wizards are as deep as any team in the East.

Lastly, I'm not going to give too much praise to the Bobcats. The Bobcats are making a nice November run. For the record, they've been in the league since 2004 and have yet to play in their first playoff game. If Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw and Tyson Chandler stay healty the entire season, they could win 40 games this year. And that's a BIG if, considering Tyson's health issues.

Larry Brown does have a winning system. But coach Brown seems to quickly wear out his welcome every where he coaches.

Posted by: musicmanjr | November 29, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Disappointing. But let's not overreact (esp. you, mricklen). I'm puzzled as to what happened, but it seems to have been a lack of effort. The shots weren't falling, but they weren't doing what they needed to do to get better shots. Lack of effort. And Flip being outcoached?

Disappointing, but let's see which team shows up Tuesday, Dr. Hustle or Mr. Flayed.

Oh, and I'll be watching NY closely. I'm not sure his joking over the shoes following the game is a bad sign. Living in the present instead of the past is a good thing. Still, we all hope he reflects enough on his and the team's shortcomings to learn from them, so that the team doesn't fall woefully short in future games. He and the team need to get better. When he quickly goes into happy clown mode, some of us wonder whether he is giving enough attention to the poor game just played. I hope that Flip and the other coaches and team leaders effectively do just that in practices before Tuesday.

Two out of three is generally good, Caron. But this was too soon after Abe's passing, and in the first home game, to turn in such an effort.

Posted by: 7snider7 | November 29, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

@Izman,

It is not so much that Gilbert needs help running the Team. Giving Foye the role of helping Gilbert should be better as you suggest. But that isn't the final piece.

It is rather though that the point play for this Team is practically null and void.

Foye will help, but the reason why I say point play rather than point guard is because the point play of your Team is not always controlled by your point guard.

The point guard role is extremely important and on some Teams the point guard always control the flow and manages the game. Thats' not to say, however, that he is the point player, for the point player on your Team is your Team's star player.

On this Team, however, Gilbert Arenas is actually the point player and should not be the point guard.

That is where we are making our mistake and why we are not jelling as we should.

Gilbert should be doing what he does best. We need his scoring. We need him to get back to being one of the dominant offensive threats in the game.

He cannot do this running point guard.

People say that if he becomes his old self that it will cut the Team out. I disagree with that. With this Team, if he is able to get back to his old form it will make this entire Team as prolific as we thought it could be.

It is easier to defense the entire Team if Gilbert is the point guard. It becomes extremely harder to defense the entire Team if Gilbert is the point player.

The point player opens the floor for everyone and on this Team Gilbert would not be the only threat.

As the point guard, Gilbert is not a threat at all, so it is harder for other players to do well also.

People that want Gilbert to be a 20-10 guy seem to forget that when Gilbert was at his best, so was Antwann and Caron. So to indicate that Gilbert has to change for the Team to be better is an oxy-moron in my book.

The Team is better, the players are better, but Gilbert isn't the point player/star anymore.

How many NBA champions have won NBA championships by making there Star Player the point guard vice point player and especially if he isn't one?

The Answer. NONE.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Note to SDMDTSU: In response to your immature post from last night,I don't have a grip on EJ's sack, i have said many times that this franchise would rue the day that they fired Eddie Jordan it was a stupid move and a knee jerk response to a bump in the road start to last years 08-09 campaign by Grunfeld and what was the result? one of the worst seasons in franchise history,fast forward to this season and after 15 games we see a team at full strength confused about their identity, turnover prone, and an offense that for lack of a better term is no better than a d-league team.Flip Saunders has no more a handle on what's wrong with this team than some of us who post on this blog and his coaching staff? not a clue either, say what you want but EJ took a team without Gilbert to the playoff's he's better coach at drawing up x's and o's then most of his peer's(yes better than Flip)I get a lot of response to my EJ post and yes i still think he should be coaching here but EG had other idea's, yeah how's that workin out for the fans. Let me ask all of you this what happens if this team doesn't make the playoff's Ernie won't fire Flip trust me and Gilbert is untradeable so what then?

Posted by: dargregmag | November 29, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards would be much better off trying to figure out how to get there star player back and not trying to make him a point guard.

Make Foye the starting point guard as Izman says, with Boykin as backup.

And when JC is back, he is my choice to seriously run point guard for this Team.

But right now Jamison, the coach, and anyone else with influence on the Team need to tell GILBERT AREANAS THAT HE NEEDS TO WORK ON GETTING BACK TO BEING THE STAR ON THIS TEAM.

ALL NBA CHAMPIONS HAVE ONE OR MORE LEGITIMATE STARS ON THE TEAM, right now we have our best star pitiling around with playing point guard, a position he is not suited for.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

@rnbrown4,

I see you post negative baloney in the comments section of articles all the time. FS is a very good coach doing a fine job with a team that is out of sorts for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with him. And, by the way, moving Jamison to the 3 and starting Blatche at the 4, while I like that front court on occasion, is *slower*.

What else, nobody was drafting Jennings 5th even the Bucks had they had the pick then...that is just standard hindsight crap on a platter and what PF are you talking about in the 2nd round? Oh, Blair...yeah, he's been a real terror. If we only had his 5 pts and 5 rbs per game combined with lousy defense, we would be much better.

@Larry,

What is this mumbo jumbo you are talking about? Yeah, I'm sure they didn't game plane for this game. Must have slipped Flip's mind that we had a game last night. Granted Larry Brown is a very good coach, but he's no messiah. We simply got outplayed and lacked energy. Besides, we don't even know what we do well at this point due to roster chaos and sub standard performances by some players.

Also, NY "playfully" arguing over shoes is the sort of attitude and behavior that had him buried on the bench. I don't expect it to be like a morgue just bc they lost, but c'mon the whole damn season is slipping away and you're worried about designer shoes? Didn't GA have a quote at the end of last season directed toward the younger players to the effect that there would be no more playing around and that it was time to get serious about winning and the game???

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

After the Heat game I was pumped. Wizzies hitting on all cylinders. Skys the limit.
I thought we turned the corner.
WRONG
The Bobcats played a good game and the Wizzies just didn't have anything. No one seemed to be trying. No energy. Even Mr. Energy Javale looked tired. I don't get taking a loss and then joking around. A loss should hurt and make you think about why you lost.
Especially after such a dismal performance on your home court.

Posted by: VBFan | November 29, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse


It's not that the Wizards are losing it's how they're losing that's disturbing.
They've had too many dead, uninspired performances in this young season for a team with playoff aspirations and will be lucky to win 40 games if this type of effort continues at its current pace throughout the season. It's okay to lose but they should not be blown out by the Bobcats on their home court when both played a big game the night before. Why are the Bobcats more focused/motivated than the Wiz?

Posted by: and_1 | November 29, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"Why doesn't Flip hold a on-line chat session with the fans so he can be exposed to five years of dealing with the reality of this organization and its players?Posted by: Izman"

Why would a coach who wasn't here until this year want to hold an online chat session with fans to hear five years worth of complaints about the organization and its players?

Besides, anybody who wants to know what you think can just consult this blog...

Posted by: Samson151 | November 29, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"EJ is a better coach at drawing up x's and o's then most of his peer's(yes better than Flip)"

lmao...what a joke! You can't be serious. Wow...is all I can say. Too blatantly dumb to comment on...how are those x's and o's working in Philly right now??? Huh? Yeah, let go as he said it makes you look ignorant.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"It's not that the Wizards are losing it's how they're losing that's disturbing.
They've had too many dead, uninspired performances in this young season for a team with playoff aspirations and will be lucky to win 40 games if this type of effort continues at its current pace throughout the season. It's okay to lose but they should not be blown out by the Bobcats on their home court when both played a big game the night before. Why are the Bobcats more focused/motivated than the Wiz?Posted by: and_1"

Well, that's what got Eddie Jordan fired, right? Not that they lost, but HOW they lost. Or so Ernie Grunfeld insisted.

As far as the Bobcats being more focused/ motivated than the Wiz: Larry Brown would tell you that's a recent development. His team is playing much better than he expected.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 29, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

@Dargregmag,

You have a point about EJ and the Princeton system. But what you keep skipping over is that EJ himself was the cause of his undoing.

The Princton system was designed for inferior talented teams. Everything was taken into account in order for those Teams to win.

Eddie's biggest mistake with the Princeton system was when he had the Wizards at there best he started listening to pundits that said they could not play defense.

Gilbert had it right when he said showtime to Charles Barkeley in that interview years ago. But Eddie fueded with Arenas because he erroneously thought the pundits were correct, but they were not, because the Princeton system already takes that your defense is inferior to other teams into account.

Eddie should have championed Gilberts comments, but instead chose to fued.

His lack of understanding about defense in the Princeton system led to all the fatal personnel decision on the floor with Haywood, Thomas, Songaila, small and slow, young versus old etcetera.

I realized the success of Eddie using the Princeton system, but he underminned his own success by fueding with his own players and playing favorites for the sake of defense and principle that had nothing to do with the Princeton system.

He should have been and rightfully was fired.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

"Why are the Bobcats more focused/motivated than the Wiz?"

My theory is that besides the hints of dissension that came out of left field (always thought this group liked each other), our best player is frustrated by his recovery combined with learning a new system. So, at the moment, it's a roller coaster with Arenas' frustrations filtering through the team. He really has digressed and is getting slower and slower. Perhaps the dissension is due to his performance vs contract which would not be a first. Anyway, it's still too early. End of Dec!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"Why are the Bobcats more focused/motivated than the Wiz?"

My theory is that besides the hints of dissension that came out of left field (always thought this group liked each other), our best player is frustrated by his recovery combined with learning a new system. So, at the moment, it's a roller coaster with Arenas' frustrations filtering through the team. He really has digressed and is getting slower and slower. Perhaps the dissension is due to his performance vs contract which would not be a first. Anyway, it's still early. End of Dec!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

@Larry,

What??? Your last post made absolutely no sense. EJ was fired bc the team had gotten as far as he was ever going to take them, which was the second round what 4 years ago now. That was it. They weren't going to improve, he refused to address the horrid defense, and the bad start last year was the occasion EG was looking for to fire him. Not to mention he had "lost" more than a couple of the players including BH and Blatche. I don't think it's a complete coincidence that they are both having their best seasons now.

Repeat after me:

44% career winning percentage
44% career winning percentage
44% career winning percentage

lol

I miss him so!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

@Rpphilli721,

The mumbojumbo is about the fact that you can't just show up to play Charlotte anymore.

They are not a bottom feeder Team anymore. The Wizards thought they were. They now know different.

Gameplanning, yes for sure the Wizards did, but the gameplan they used was not the correct one for this Charlotte Team.

Charlotte is fast becoming a good Team and the Wizards seriously underestimated that. They thought they were playing that same ole Charlotte team from last year and beyond.

They were wrong and that is why they looked so bad last night and got blown out of the phone booth, there own Gym.

Charlotte right now is progressing faster than the Wizards, and they outplanned and outplayed us.

We can make the excuse about effort all we want, but we underestimated that Team last night as well as the coaching of Larry Brown.

Effort starts with realization first on what is required. We thought that them Charlotte Bobcats would be a pushover.

By Michael Lee's comments he thought the same thing.

That is the mumbojumbo I am talking about Rphilli721.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

It is hard to figure out the problem of this team. No motivation, no anger on most of the players face.It was all about energy. Babcats always play good defense but they are not good in ball handling, our team should have tried to play defense and win the fast break.
Washington does not have a starting SG.NY can not gard a 6.9 sg who can easily take a three over his head.DM did not allow him to score over him, he should have been inserted early.No one was rebounding.AJ get a shoot on his injured shoulder by GW in his 1st attempt of defensive rebound and decide to finish the gamewith out a rebound.

Posted by: gtefferra | November 29, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

@Larry,

What??? Your last post made absolutely no sense. EJ was fired bc the team had gotten as far as he was ever going to take them, which was the second round what 4 years ago now. That was it. They weren't going to improve, he refused to address the horrid defense, and the bad start last year was the occasion EG was looking for to fire him. Not to mention he had "lost" more than a couple of the players including BH and Blatche. I don't think it's a complete coincidence that they are both having their best seasons now.

Repeat after me:

44% career winning percentage
44% career winning percentage
44% career winning percentage

lol

I miss him so!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 29, 2009 11:05 AM

Rphill721,

The above would be oh so correct. I agree.

However, my comments were in direct response to Dargregmag and his point about Eddie Jordon. They were not an end all answer as to why EJ should have been fired.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Flip needs to face reality. Gilbert needs a combo guard next to him to share the ball-handling load. This will cut down on the team turnovers and get Arenas better shots.

On this roster, that means Foye should play alongside Arenas. With playing time, Foye will gain confidence and his performance will improve.

The second backcourt unit can be Boykins and Young for now. DS' minutes should be limited. He's a game killer.

Flip also needs to give AB and JM more minutes. See the stats on 82games.com.

AJ can put some minutes in at SF.

Posted by: Izman | November 29, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Izman - I agree with your post. I think it would better serve the Wiz to start Foye alongside Gilbert and not NY. That would allow Foye to get his game back. Bokins, through no fault of his own, has cut bigtime into Foye's minutes.

1st Unit

Haywood - 5
AJ - 4
CB - 3
Gil - 2
Foye - 1

*Miller at the 2 when he gets back

2nd Unit

McGee - 5
AB - 4
AJ/CB - 3
NY - 2
Bokins - 1

* When Miller gets back Foye at the 2 and NY at the 3. DMac at 2 or 3 if Foye or NY is stinking the joint up.....

Posted by: BulletsFever | November 29, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

rphilli721

I'm stating the obvious. There is a reason Flip was run out of Detriot and Minnesota. Also do you forget that Flip was in camp last year to teach defense. WINK, WINK. Eddie saw the writing on the wall. So Flip was in camp last. Ran camp and watch summer league this year and you can't tell me he didn't konw he wasn't going to coach the Wiz this year. So you know he was watching Wiz games. If Flip don't know these players by now he may never know them. The only reason he's playing the young guys is because of injuries.

As for Ernie and draft picks, he had a chance to bring in plenty of PG's and PF's to evaluate. He chose to trade for Miller who has never played a full season in 10yrs and Foye who is a combo gaurd. He also chose to trade the 2nd round pick for Oberto a player other teams were paying to get rid of. Ernie also turned down the Jamison, Butler for Amare trade. This isn't hindsight. These are facts.

You pay a GM to make decisions to build a team. A good GM make more good decisions than bad. You pay a coach to coach the talent on the team. A good coach creates a scheme to fit his players.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | November 29, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

"This game's result was about effort and had very little if anything to with the new system, new roles, etc. Enough with the excuses.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 29, 2009 12:56 AM | Report abuse "

Finally, some sanity on this board.

Where are the MeTawn lovers now? What about the Gilby lovers?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 29, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD, I see your still drinking the Arenas Kool Aid. He is not the best player on this team and has not been for the past 3 years. That honor would go to Antwan Jamison.

Go back and look at the posts from last year. I told you then and I'm telling you now. This team is a one and done team in the playoffs IF they make the playoffs:

Boston
Orlando
Cleveland
Atlanta
Miami

So the wiz will finish 7th or 8th and lose in the first round.

And YOUR MAN Gilbert is 60% of what is wrong with this team. They should look to move him if at all possible.

EJ should not have been fired last year. He is the most successfull coach we have had since 78. But if you do fire him you should've hired Avery Johnson. A culture changing Coach. Gil would've demanded a trade before training camp started.

Gil simply is not and will never be a 100 million dollar player. Even when he was healthy he CHOKED and missed a free throw against Cleveland. We all made excuses then and shouldn't be making excuses for him now.

Posted by: kevenjones | November 29, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

This game's result was about effort and had very little if anything to with the new system, new roles, etc. Enough with the excuses.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 29, 2009 12:56 AM

ArmChairQB,

Effort, yes, a valid observation, but I like to go a step further and ask, Why?

You see, too often when we see lack of effort the gauntlet gets thrown right at the players.

Yes, there was unquestionably a lack of effort in this game, but this team terribly underestimated a Charlotte Bobcat Team that is playing very well right now.

And that underestimation did not start and end with the players. The coaching share in that lack of preparedness as well.

You see Flip Saunders may be smarter than some of you are giving him credit for.

Why?

Because he stated that he bears the responsiblity for this loss even though he himself pointed to a lack of effort by the Team.

The entensity and effort required to beat Charlotte last night had to be the same as in the Miami game and there is no way that anyone in the Wizard Organization approached the Charlotte game that way.

So you can't say that the players lacked effort for this one without leaving coaching/preparation out. Flip did not leave himself out.

They all flunked. Mental preparation is just as important as playing.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

ONE OF THE WORST PERFORMANCES BY A TEAM IVE EVA SEEN. REALLY DISGRACEFUL. IM TOTALLY DISGUSTED BY THIS TEAM!!

Posted by: dovelevine | November 29, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

"As far as the Bobcats being more focused/ motivated than the Wiz: Larry Brown would tell you that's a recent development. His team is playing much better than he expected."

No kidding. I'm stunned by how well Jackson seems to be working out for the Bobcats. I was sure he and Brown together was a train wreck waiting to happen. That being said, it's early yet. Jackson seems to have a long fuse and there's plenty of time left in the season for the bomb to go off.

"But what you keep skipping over is that EJ himself was the cause of his undoing."

Yes, but not in the nonsensical, convoluted manner of your little theory. Jordan was the cause of his undoing because he got a team with almost no depth, little size, underwhelming athleticism, and an almost crippling string of injuries into the playoffs 4 straight years, including one year when their best player was out for almost the entire season. He got the limited cast he was given to overachieve and, in the process, raised expectations of what this team was capable of way beyond logic. When he (inevitably) was unable to meet those inflated expectations (helped immensely by injuries), it gave Grunfeld just the excuse he'd been looking for to get rid of him.

"There is a reason Flip was run out of Detriot and Minnesota."

Yeah, the same reason most coaches who post winning records get fired: because he'd maxed out his teams and it was time to bring in new blood. He took both teams as far as they were going to go with the personnel they had. As proof of this, it's worth noting that not long after he left both places, both teams underwent massive roster overhauls. It's not like after he left either team went on to greater success under a different coach with the same talent.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 29, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

WIZ SHOULD FREAKIN GIVE REFUNDS FOR THE PEEPS WHO ATTENDED LAST NIGHT.

Posted by: dovelevine | November 29, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

@Kevenjones,

Yeah, you are right. I am still drinking the Arenas Kool Aid. And yeah, Arenas was hurt the past 3-yrs, but he is back now.

And prior to those last 3-yrs, Arenas was the star on this Team and one of the League's stars the last time I checked.

And anyone, and I mean ANYONE, that believes that this Team is going anywhere without Gilbert getting back to or close to his "Star" is in serious delusion.

Grasp what I just said. Iffin' Ya' Don't' Kno' That' Ya' Beddar' Ask' Somebody'.

LarryInClintoMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Since moving to the DC area five years ago, my son and I have tried to make 4-5 Wizards games a year. Last night we headed to the Verizon Center eager to restart a tradition that was interrupted last year by my deployment overseas. But after watching that disaster of a game, we're done. That wasn't professional basketball, it was a joke played on the fans. The Wizards aren't getting another dime out of me this year.

Posted by: clocker58 | November 29, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

And one other thing for all of you Gilbert haters to chew on.

Does anyone one of you believe that what little success we did have under Eddie Jordan was in spite of Gilbert Arenas?

Jordan's success was built with Gilbert and the non-Gilbert playoff year was still the house that Gilbert help build.

You Gilbert haters really should call it like it is.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Samson quote: "Why would a coach who wasn't here until this year want to hold an online chat session with fans to hear five years worth of complaints about the organization and its players?"

For the same reason that CEOs learn by walking around and talking to everyone.

Gil is a special case. There's plenty of history that should be considered in formulating the team's strategy. For example, I immediately questioned Flip calling Arenas the team's leader "because he was the best player". EJ had already learned this lesson the hard way. Flip was oblivious. He and Gil are still confused.

Your comebacks sound cute, but they aren't well thought out.

Posted by: Izman | November 29, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse


AJ get a shoot on his injured shoulder by GW in his 1st attempt of defensive rebound and decide to finish the gamewith out a rebound.

Posted by: gtefferra

I noticed that too. AJ winced in pain and windmilled his arm a few times to try to shake it off. He then proceed to get zero rebounds. To state the obvious, he's no Mike Miller in terms of toughness.
You can't win with a roster full of, at best, sixth men. This is a bad team that has no shot of making the playoffs. None.

Posted by: 2020doc | November 29, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD,

I love your enthusiasm for the Wizards but you are insane if you think that a coach takes lightly a same division team that happens to have the no. 1 defense. Flip did what most coaches to do to salvage his team by taking the blame. But he did say in the end that if you don't play hard (and Flip wears a suit, he doesn't play) you will lose in the end.
The Wizards played like dogs last night. If you start with that elemental fact some things about this team may become clearer to you.

Posted by: 2020doc | November 29, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse


"The entensity and effort required to beat Charlotte last night had to be the same as in the Miami game and there is no way that anyone in the Wizard Organization approached the Charlotte game that way.".

@Larry,

I'm blaming the players and the players only for effort. If you want to argue Flip's strategy was flawed, go ahead. If you know for a fact that Saunders didn't prepare the team then I'd like to see what proof you have of that. The Wiz are in no position to overlook anyone and I don't think Flip's guilty of that.
That was as pathetic and lifeless a performance as I've seen from them this year and I'm including the candy-dish game (Indiana). Any momentum gained from their two-game streak was lost with last night's debacle.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 29, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

@ArmChairQB,

The proof is in the pudding as they say. The fact that there wasn't any effort and they played like dogs and never was in the game indicates two things to me.

1) The Bobcats are just that good. I would say no to that.

2) They did not have a clue why they sucked so badly and made no adjustments in-game to change how Charlotte was absolutely destroying them. Yes.

Charlotte played basic man-up position defense to a fault and the Wizards never adusted to it. That is preparation and not efffort.

When Boykin came into the game, they never let him push/freelance the ball like he normally does to break down defenses.

His man always stayed as much as possible in front of him to disallow him from breaking there defense down. They did this to all the Wizard players and not once did I see any indication that the Wizards or their coaches realized that this is what Charlotte was doing.

Also, if you stay positionally between your man and the goal, man-up, you are also in position to rebound and neutralize offensive rebounds, one of the things that make this Team tick.

To blame this on effort is foolhardy. To blame it on what Charlotte was doing defensively would be smart.

Also, to not recognize that Charlotte was a much better Team than you thought they were and not to gameplan accordingly before hand, nor to adjust accordingly once the game was is in progress will cause your efforts to look really bad.

To blame that game last night on player effort would be ignoring a bigger problem that was clearly evident last night to me.

That would be putting your players, your team, your organization in the proper position to win and from the play I saw last night that Charlotte Team was seriously underestimated by our players and our coaching Staff.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Samson quote: "Why would a coach who wasn't here until this year want to hold an online chat session with fans to hear five years worth of complaints about the organization and its players?"
For the same reason that CEOs learn by walking around and talking to everyone.
Gil is a special case. There's plenty of history that should be considered in formulating the team's strategy. For example, I immediately questioned Flip calling Arenas the team's leader "because he was the best player". EJ had already learned this lesson the hard way. Flip was oblivious. He and Gil are still confused.
Your comebacks sound cute, but they aren't well thought out.Posted by: Izman"

LOL let's be honest. It's not 'everyone' you want Flip to listen to -- it's you.

Naive to think Saunders calling Gilbert the team's leader was anything more than a new HC giving props to his most talented player. In a league of guaranteed contracts, that's just good sense. You can't make the players do much, so you want them on your side (a lesson Flip learned after Detroit).

If Saunders is smart (and he is), he'll focus on the present, not on the past. That's where the teams falters; that's the only place where he can have a positive impact.

You can go back to grinding that axe of yours now.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 29, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I didn't see the whole game last night, but I what saw was not good. This is the first time I'm at a lost for words about what's wrong. Not having a back to the basket type scorers really hurts us when our shots are not falling and that's been most of the season. I love what NY why is doing and would hate to move him back to the bench, but I think Gil needs Foye next to him to help bring the ball up. Also, they need to run. I think starting McGee who has been better at blocking shot and creating easy basket. Also, stop rewarding CB for bad play. Start AB to light a fire into him.

So start

point guard Gil
shooting guard Randy
Center McGee
power foward AB
small foward AJ

Second unit

Point Earl
shooting Young
center Haywood
small CB
Power Miller (when he gets back)

If all else trade CB and JC for Boozer. :-)

Posted by: 33dgriffin | November 29, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Larry it amazes me that you think the Wiz players and coaches can't dissect NBA offenses/defenses. Is it a power only bestowed upon a few in your mind?
I'll go out on a limb and say that Charlotte didn't do anything last night offensively or defensively that the Wiz haven't seen before.
Read the players' quotes after the game to tell you what the determining factor was - ENERGY.
Energy = Effort.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 29, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Andray Blatche right now is at a back table at the hooters in Chinatown playing spades with his boy and some waitresses.

Posted by: detox04 | November 29, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

ArmChairQB,

Thats not it at all. The Wizs players and coaches are very capable of dissecting and game planning for other Teams. I have no doubt of that.

However, ever now and then in this League Teams get hot and improve and you might be guilty or caught napping so-to-speak.

Charlotte caught them napping and it isn't just the players lack of effort that was responsible for that debaucle last night.

Too often we are quick to villify the players and blame them, but I saw more than just a players lack of effort last night.

In order to win championships and move to a top echolon Team everybody has to be on top of there game including coaching/organization.

To just fault the players all the time is not smart when clearly everybody got whipped last night including the coaching.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

That is coaching and it also falls into the intelligence of the players on the court. The point guard or the leader of the Team must realize what the other Team is doing on the floor and overcome it. Arenas, Jamison, The Big Three, neither of them addressed what Charlotte was doing. I hope this was an anomily and we will not be caught with our pants around our ankles again. It wasn't necessarily intensity and desire, it was not knowing intellectually what needed to be done to beat Charlotte. Larry Brown's Team's do what they do very well. When you play them you have to address the way they play. If you do not address there style of play and your own play is not as dominant as their's, Larry Brown will beat you. I am disappointed that Jamison did not realize that they were being beat by a system. A system, not necessarily the Tar Heel sytem, but a by-product of it in Larry Brown.

LarryInClintonMD.

It's hard to tell when you're serious or just looking to make a splash.

Are you suggesting that you're the only guy in a 100-mile radius of Washington DC who knows that preparation is the key to everything? Do you really think Flip & his assistants aren't fully aware of the razor-thin margin between winning and losing in the NBA? Do you think he's never faced a Larry Brown team before? If you had posted before the game how tough the Bobcats were going to be, how Flip had better be prepared for certain unique elements of Larry Brown's system, blah, blah, blah, then your post could possibly be taken seriously by some. Instead you are MR. HINDSIGHT, and even then your vision isnt't too good.
And maybe the players didn't address Brown's system after the game because it wasn't the reason why they lost.
It really is funny that you think the players have never seen/battled Brown's system before.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Is it just me or is Foye looking wrong. I'm probably wrong but I'm seeing missed and intercepted passes and a guy who plays small and a half step slow.
I think Crittendon needs to get better and take a crack at playing beside Arenas.

Posted by: midlevex | November 29, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Samson,

Do you think this team has a leader? If so, who do you think it is? Who do you think it should be? Is the current leader doing a good job? Does anybody take the current leader seriously and strive to follow in the direction he sets out?

Are the roles and expectations for this team clear and reasonably achievable?

After you answer these questions, think about what Flip would say. Hint: he is changing his tune as he learns the players.

Asking the right questions can lead to a better outcome. I would expect Mike to ask them, which was the real intent of my original post. As you have said before, you miss the nuances of my posts. But your posts are cute, at least superficially.

Posted by: Izman | November 29, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone one of you believe that what little success we did have under Eddie Jordan was in spite of Gilbert Arenas?

Jordan's success was built with Gilbert and the non-Gilbert playoff year was still the house that Gilbert help build.

You Gilbert haters really should call it like it is.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse "

Funny how the success that EJ had with Gilby was identical to the success they had without him two seasons ago.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 29, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

When is JC due back? I like his defense and his steady play. He needs a better shot. But with Gil at the 2, maybe JC could be the missing ingredient

Posted by: Bailey51 | November 29, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Larry,

I'm still looking for one quote from anybody on the team suggesting that the players were just thrown out there with no prior preparation. If anybody was napping, it was the players, absent something compelling. Flip used everybody in a uniform to pump some life into this squad to no avail.
Not to belabor the point but, Jamison, the Wiz's most repected vet, had 0 (zero) rebounds last night. That is inexcusable on any level and he was not alone among the players in not leaving it all on the court.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 29, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

@tgif11,

I am glad you brought forward that particular point of one of my posts. You see the difference of Larry's system and now is the players he has running it.

In case you haven't noticed Larry Brown has jettitsoned quite a few players from when he arrived at Charlotte till now.

One thing that hasn't changed is his system and his approach to the game. So to just say that the Wizards hasn't seen his system before and it is there fault that they played badly against it is flawed.

What has changed is the players in his system and to assume that this was the same Charlotte Team that they have been playing since Larry Brown arrived was there mistake.

The talent in the system kayoed there butts to include the coaching staff.

However, I do not expect this Wizard staff to make this mistake again.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse


However, I do not expect this Wizard staff to make this mistake again.

Larry,

What mistake, precisely, with regard to preparation did they make that you can prove?
You've ceded the fact that Flip et al. know Brown's system and now you're scurrying to imply (actually you've stated as a fact) that the Wiz staff were not aware that Charlotte made changes to their lineup this season. That is laughable on its face and requires no further discussion, agreed?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

ArmChairQB,

You are still stuck on this no prior prepartation slant. Go back and check my posts carefully and you will see that I am saying that the preparation was flawed for this Charlotte Bobcat Team and not that there wasn't any.

They underestimated and underprepared for this Team. It happens.

I am lighting a torch on the proponents that always want to lay blame at the feet of the players, when clearly for this game, lack of effort was clearly a result of also a lack of clearly sizing up the character of your opponent.

LarryInClintonMD.

Do you really think that Charlotte soundly whipped our butts only because the players played badly, took the night off, brought no effort?

I think not.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

You've ceded the fact that Flip et al. know Brown's system and now you're scurrying to imply (actually you've stated as a fact) that the Wiz staff were not aware that Charlotte made changes to their lineup this season. That is laughable on its face and requires no further discussion, agreed?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 6:05 PM

Get your facts straight young fellow and then your arguments might have some merit. I never stated or implied that the Wizards did not know that Charlotte had made changes to there player personnel.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Get your facts straight young fellow and then your arguments might have some merit. I never stated or implied that the Wizards did not know that Charlotte had made changes to there player personnel.


Man, you're really backing away from that trash you posted.
AGAIN, what mistake did Flip & Company make (that they won't again), old head?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Defensively, Larry Brown always coaches his Teams to stop/minimize the other Teams strengths. It does not appear that any of the Wizard players, nor even Flip realized that is what Charlotte does. Charlotte is uncanny at getting you to play there game and unless you address that and force the issue it will be extremely hard to play well against them. The Wizards found that out and that's why I think Flip took the blame for this loss. You cannot take your normal mojo against Charlotte. You have to breakdown there gamplan. We did not do that.

Larry,

Look at your 8:24 post where you state the above. Words do have meaning and those are your words.
Which coach/player did you interview who told you the Wiz thought Charlotte would be a cakewalk, same as always?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

What has changed is the players in his system and to assume that this was the same Charlotte Team that they have been playing since Larry Brown arrived was there mistake.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 5:49 PM

Whose mistake, Larry?

Case closed!

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Check out the proof is in the pudding...

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

8 of next 9 or something against medium or bad teams... let's wait and see a little longer, despite what was a truly blameworthy effort yesterday.

Posted by: GshawnJohnson | November 29, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Players and coaches. It is very clear.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 29, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

The biggest problem I see with the Wiz right now are that they have no low post threat offensively and no consistent post defender (Teams are allowed to extend their defense against them consistently - there are very few uncontested jump shots as opposing big men can cheat out on) Opposing guards do not have to worry about help defense on a big. Also the double teams were pathetic defensively. If you're going to double, double hard or don't double at all. There is no one on the team that commands a double team, which is the easiest way to create open shots in the half court. Defensively, the Wiz should stop doubling until they can do it right. AJ needs to go down on the post against opposing SFs when in that role. The Wiz need an entry pass to jump start their offense, there is no rhythm there. For most of the game their defense held up, then they start doing weird stuff like doubling when there's no one that deserves it. CB was in a rhythm in the 3rd, continue to play hard straight up D and ride CB til the rest of the offense picks it up. Stop the junk defenses! Especially against an excellent offensive rebounding team such as Charlotte. More energy and play smarter is what is boils down to.

Posted by: dabwilldo40 | November 29, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Check out the proof is in the pudding...

Check out your arguments are devoid of facts...

I am lighting a torch on the proponents that always want to lay blame at the feet of the players, when clearly for this game, lack of effort was clearly a result of also a lack of clearly sizing up the character of your opponent.

Without a cogent argument your torch is wet.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 29, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

"When is JC due back? I like his defense and his steady play. He needs a better shot. But with Gil at the 2, maybe JC could be the missing ingredient

Posted by: Bailey51 | November 29, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse "

Larry.....don't know, don't care.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 29, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't believe that the loss was strategic as some of you have pointed out. The team lacked energy as players alluded to. While I actually believe in Flip (to a certain extent), it is the responsibility of the coach to extract energy from his players and motivate them to succeed, it is Managemnt 101. Most coaches in all sports get fired once the team stops playing with energy.
If you walk into a clothing store and the sales associates hardly greet you, don't show you products..... who would you blame? The associates or the Manager?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 29, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse


No doubt the Nets will now go on a 16-game winning streak after firing Frank, their only obstacle to winning.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/nba/11/29/nets.frank.ap/index.html

Posted by: and_1 | November 29, 2009 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Character, Commitment, Connection

Character - We have a cast of characters who we are sure you will find amusing.

Commitment - It is our commitment to play 82 games during the course of the season...whether we feel terribly like it or not.

Connection - Watching our millionaire players mail it in on numerous nights will drive you to commiserate with other common folks and these connections strengthen relationships among the working class.

Sorry needed to vent. Favorite recent post was one comparing being a Wiz fan to dating psycho chick...only the sex isn't even that good.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | November 29, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"Samson,Do you think this team has a leader? If so, who do you think it is? Who do you think it should be? Is the current leader doing a good job? Does anybody take the current leader seriously and strive to follow in the direction he sets out?Are the roles and expectations for this team clear and reasonably achievable?After you answer these questions, think about what Flip would say. Hint: he is changing his tune as he learns the players." posted by Izman

Hint: those questions were possibly relevant a month ago. At this point in the season, Flip has to be asking another question entirely. That question is -- how can I get the offense/defense going for more than a game or two?

Answer that question and you might see some real-time improvement.

Right now, his club can thoroughly outplay a good team and then fall flat on its face the following evening. Score 76 points or something ridiculous. That's the problem.

And Saunders isn't the only coach in the NBA dealing with it.

"Asking the right questions can lead to a better outcome. I would expect Mike to ask them, which was the real intent of my original post. As you have said before, you miss the nuances of my posts. But your posts are cute, at least superficially."

Yours are dumb. Deeply.

Posted by: Izman

Posted by: Samson151 | November 29, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry needed to vent. Favorite recent post was one comparing being a Wiz fan to dating psycho chick...only the sex isn't even that good.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | November 29, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse "

Because it's on the receiving end if you're a season ticket holder or attend games at the arena?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 29, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Sorry the tenor of this discourse has degenerated. It started with so much promise, with some interesting analysis mixed with the usual bromides from the thoroughly disgusted and the completely captivated.

Clearly a lack of preparation was largely to blame, and Flip is right to take responsibility for the loss. Even if he had the perfect gameplan, it didn't get executed, and that comes down to team preparation, and that's on the coach more than anyone.

But the next step in taking responsibility for what is going horribly wrong is making the necessary adjustments. That's a big part of coaching and Flip knows that as well as anyone, because he is a good coach.

I've been watching Larry Brown for 35 years, including his heyday playing and coaching in the old ABA, but the reverence shown Brown in this blog borders on the psychotic. He's still the same guy who's never built a team that cared about him, with players he ever cared about. It's always been about Larry Brown, and anything he's saying to AI right now is all about himself.

Yeah, well I don't bleed Carolina blue but it's pretty obvious that Jamison is the best player on this team right now, and Haywood is playing outstanding interior defense and rebounding as well as we can expect.

Foye ought to be running the point with Gilbert at the "2," but NY ought to be in early and often, and it's stupid not to include Stevenson in the rotation when you need to defend a big offensive player on the perimeter. All you had to see was the first play against Charlotte to know that Jackson was going to dominate Young.

So, we regroup and get back to focusing this team. And we prepare for Toronto. If guys can't figure out how they perform within the team, they ought to sit.

Posted by: zinger1 | November 29, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

That was pretty bad. Was that their first back to back this season? Shots weren't falling, and looked slow.

Nice thing about the recent play is Nick Young beginning to step up. Also McGee.

The bad is the continued drop off in Butler's game. Also Foye has seemed to have lost his groove since missing time with injury and the acquisition of Boykins.

Butler has me concerned. He has turned into a jumpshooter. A good one, but not great. He's got that one move baseline drive to reverse layup. Half the time he goes to that he turns it over or offensive foul. He's not much of a rebounder, not much handle or passing either, and not a great defender. He's not quick, not long and short for the 3. His asset is his toughness, aggressive play and confidence.. and that seems to be missing this year.

I think we have looked best when running with Haywood, Blatche and Jamison in the frontcourt.

IMO when healthy the unit we should be going with is Haywood, Blatche, Jamison, Miller, Arenas. Bring in Caron and Foye as the first subs. Rest of rotation would be worked in with McGee, Young, Boykins. With Oberto, McGuire and Stevenson as situational defensive subs. If Blatche keeps playing the way he's playing, and Caron keeps playing the way he's playing, this is what we got to be going with and I think it's just a matter of time.

Maybe benching Caron will bring back that chip on the shoulder aggressive play we are missing from him. Foye needs to get his role back to where it was. Boykins is a vet who can adjust easier to more reserve up and down pt. We can bring in Caron to sub for Antawn at sf, or for Blatche (slide Antawn to pf) or Haywood (slide up Blatche). Foye in for Gil or Miller. Next guys would be McGee and Young, rewarded the young guys for their improved play with more consistant roles off the bench, and the solidifying vet Boykins. That's 10. Bench is rounded out with Oberto, McGuire and Stevenson who are all solid defenders and role guys to put on a hot opposing player or when we have fouls or injuries ahead of them. That's 13 deep. And that top 5 with Haywood, Blatche, Jamison, Miller and Arenas is real good offensively and has alot of size to control the boards and 2 chance opps. Caron and Foye off the bench and that's a real nice top 7.

Posted by: Darnell1 | November 29, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

the wizards are a joke as far as professional basketball is concerned...gil having louis vuitton delivered to the verizon center during game night! i guess we know where his head (or feet)is at...even if other nba players do this on the regular this just does not need to be happening for this team right now...they just got smoked on thier home court by a road-winless basketball team...forget all the analysis guys...these players are just not focused on playing good basketball...they got other off court things on their minds...things they should be handling during the off-season...it's time to work now...and the wiz are still in off season mode...arenas you live in a mansion...have your shoes delivered their dude!! or is it that you were thinking more about where you were going after the game (and what you were going to wear)!! right now arenas and these "playas" are a joke!! forget wasting your time analyzing what they need to do to get better...they need to get their "money" playas focused on what they're getting the money for (not looking good in their "fly" gear) but for playing basketball at a pro level period!!!

Posted by: ronniecope106 | November 29, 2009 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Another, blame it on the playa boogie. Yada Yada Yada.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 30, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Asked why the team lacked energy from the start, reserve forward Andray Blatche said that we needed to ask the starters. "I'm just a role player. I play my role. I do what I'm told and that's it,"

Does Flip have a clue what he's doing with this roster...how can you have a guy who played so well at the start of the season saying this now and bench NY all season and then start him?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 30, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Starters...

Gil
Foye (till Miller is back)
Jamison
Blatche
Haywood

Butler 6th man
Bokins
Young
McGee

Bench

Oberto
Stevenson
James
McGuire

Is Critt

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 30, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Is Crittenton ever coming back?

Mike,

I asked you this before...do you know the date Crittenton told the Wizards about his injury? Was it before the draft?

For those who said the draft day deal for MM and Foye for DSong, Thomas, OP and the 5th pick was the only option.

Would you rather have Jennings (the Wizards could have drafted him with the 5th pick) and the big men or Foye and Oberto? Miller is hurt so I didn't add him into the equation.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 30, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

You are what your record says you are. That age old axiom applies to every sport and will never change. The Bobcat's game was a disgrace and the Fan's attending were ripped off. Larry Brown badly outcoached and better prepared his team against a so called team that was not ready for true NBA competition.
Any team led by Gilbert Arenas is destined to fail. Flip Saunders has put his full faith in this child-like character that attempts to change his "identity" with every game. I would love to see this team blown up while keeping the young guys and attempting to get as much value as possible for Butler, Jamison and less likely, Arenas. When the Wiz signed Arenas to the 111 million contract I said to my Son "Juwan Howard". The Wiz are stuck with that contract much the same as they were with Howard until MJ got him out of here. Signing Arenas will haunt the Wiz for years to come. It will be extremely difficult to unload him, especially if he continues playing so poorly.

Posted by: jshavatt | November 30, 2009 12:41 AM | Report abuse

"Asked why the team lacked energy from the start, reserve forward Andray Blatche said that we needed to ask the starters. "I'm just a role player. I play my role. I do what I'm told and that's it,"

Does Flip have a clue what he's doing with this roster...how can you have a guy who played so well at the start of the season saying this now and bench NY all season and then start him?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 30, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse "

I luv it....right back at you MeTawn and Gilby.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 30, 2009 12:53 AM | Report abuse

Another, blame it on the playa boogie. Yada Yada Yada.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

hey larryinclinton...who do you blame a sub 500 record on? the fans? maybe the cheerleaders? how about the redskins larry...let's blame it on them...we could say that since the redskins are subpar and the wiz play in the same vicinity that they caught the H1N1 subpar flu!!! larry if you were subpar at doing your job and you got reprimanded...who would you blame it on? it's not a question of blame larry...in the end it's about the truth...not a sermon bro...just a thought.

Posted by: ronniecope106 | November 30, 2009 1:06 AM | Report abuse

"Asking the right questions can lead to a better outcome. I would expect Mike to ask them" . . . "

Prodding the coach to get the Wizards to play better isn't Michael Lee's job. He's a journalist, in the business of gathering information and reporting on it. If there's something that Saunders needs to hear to make the team better, that's what he has assistants, players, and a GM for.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 30, 2009 1:15 AM | Report abuse

"If you don't play hard, it gets you in the end." Flip intimated the starters took a night off. These guys better be mindful of the new ownership. LEONSIS is not POLLIN. A new era is about to dawn in D.C. and players that are pacing themselves from one game to the next are going to be on someone else's team before long. GA and NY are prime candidates for trades. Well, not GA because no one wants him at what he's making. Another MIKE JAMES contract, only much, much worse. ABE POLLIN's legacy. We should be back on track in say......five seasons....Just sayin'.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 30, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

The problem with this team is that Arenas is not what he was before. He is rusty and not capable of being dominant like before. Then couple that with him trying to be more point guard and in a new system, it causes the team to stagnate offensively with his mental/physical uncertainty. Jump on Gil all you want, but, like Phil Chenier said, it was more difficult than he thought when he Chenier)came back after a 1 year layoff to injury, Gil was out 2 years.

If you think that Gil should never have been re-signed is one thing, but to rip him when he obviously is not himself shows immaturity on your own part.

As for the team, nobody is running away with the eastern conference. What happened to the Big 3 of Orlando, Boston, and Cleveland? Atlanta is with them. Toronto is decent. Milwaukee is ok. The east is deep. Potentially, the Wiz are as good as these teams, but that is on paper. The team seems to always be snakebit. Jamison out for a stretch. Now Miller out for a stretch after Jamison comes back. It will not matter if Gil doesn't regain more of his form. The coaches understand that for the team to peak, it needs Gil to play better. Benching him will not be the answer. Foye can't replace the potential of Gil. Boykins can't. The different combinations can't. No Gil is not the best player in the league. He is not the best point guard. He is not the best guard. But he was the best Wizard. They need him to be again. If he can't be, it don't matter.

Posted by: G-Man11 | November 30, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Would you rather have Jennings (the Wizards could have drafted him with the 5th pick) and the big men or Foye and Oberto? Miller is hurt so I didn't add him into the equation.

I'd still rather have Miller and Foye. I said it in the offseason when they got the pick I thought Mike Miller would be a good trade for the pick and I still do.

I love reading the comments here. You people are like a bi-polar female off her meds. When they win...everything is roses and butterflies. When they lose it's the end of the world. Flip can't coach, the players are trash and little babies are being killed because of it.

They're 15 games in. Eddie Jordan is gone, Brandon Jennings is in Milwaukee, Gil has been out for 2 years. I guess you all wanted them to started out 13-2? 10-5? What's the difference now? THERE IS ALMOST 70 GAMES LEFT TO PLAY.

The entire team is damn near new. I love you guys that want to see them fail too...it's a beautiful thing.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 30, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

No energy, no peace!

Posted by: 2020doc | November 30, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Only saw the second half of the game and wow, what a mess.

One question though - after lightly scanning all these posts, why are so many people after Caron right now. It seems he was the only one on the team to play decently. He hit 55% of his shots and 100% of his FTs and had 7 boards.

I know his season hasn't been too good so far, but I think if he can start averaging 19 & 7 and cut down on the TOs, we can't ask for much more. I was just hoping that this was the start of him getting back to form.

Posted by: Blurred | November 30, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

"Would you rather have Jennings (the Wizards could have drafted him with the 5th pick) and the big men or Foye and Oberto?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Wondered when we would get around to this. It's an unfair question, of course, because so many other teams missed on Jennings.

Fact is, Jennings is a surprise. He's looking much better than anyone expected. He's tailed off a little recently, maybe because he's tired, maybe because others have returned to carry some of the scoring. He sure looks like a future All-Star, but so did OJ Mayo at this time last year. Mayo struggled in the second half. We'll have to see how Brandon does.

D

Posted by: Samson151 | November 30, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/opinion/29dowd.html?em
A nice column about AP from a DC gal writing for that paper in NYC.

Gilbert appears as though he is still trying to figure out if he needs to change his game and if so how, to fit the 09-10 Saunders' era Wiz; or should he stand pat and hope his stellar 'A' game, once he roles it out, is going to convince CB, AJ, MM, BH and the new kids on the block to revert to Arenas' Wizards, version 06.07.

Foye is in the rotation but not looking like starting five to me. Maybe that Stevenson would pair up with best with Gil or Crit when he gets back. Still not sure if and how Miller, CB and AJ all roughly interchangeable can complement each other and create some synergy.

It's a chemistry thing now, Filp is looking for a good mix and a catalyst to make this experiment work. He either blows up the lab or the Wiz start improving in December.

Posted by: midlevex | November 30, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

That Charlotte game everybody got there butts whipped, players and coaches. It amazes me why some only want to highlight the players whipping but are not inclined at all to include the coaching.

The last time I checked the two work together and this time in that game, they both performed badly.

As a coach sometimes you get outcoached and outplanned. It happens. It isn't a huge deal. Especially, if you are a coach like Flip that accepted blame and I know he won't get caught like that again.

All of you that want to keep saying the players did not bring it and did now show up, whatever, are just overreaching.

After 15 games the 3-5 prediction crew can take a bow. Stand up and rep yourself and remind us (I predicted 10-12 wins) why you thought you would be correct.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 30, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"As a coach sometimes you get outcoached and outplanned. It happens. It isn't a huge deal. Especially, if you are a coach like Flip that accepted blame and I know he won't get caught like that again."

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

What did Larry Brown do that Flip wasn't expecting?

Posted by: 2020doc | November 30, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Larry,
Most folks, me included, tend to believe you cannot teach or coach desire. Even if a game plan was flawed, which I am not saying was the case, the players can play with energy but this team often comes out flat. Jobs are too scarce these days for people to see players getting paid millions and not lay everything out on the court. Additionally the ease with which these losses are seemingly accepted, see Butler quotes, is particularly distressing.

Nobody minds a loss where you go down swinging but the Charlotte game looked like we were told it was not our night and the Wiz took a fall. I would actually feel better if this had been the case...any external factor would be better than the players lacking a work ethic and sense of urgency.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | November 30, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Flip has an interesting way of coaching during Time Outs.

He walks emphatically to the free throw line...right past the players who are walking to the bench...where he is joined by his other coaches. The coaches stand there talking to each other for about 30 seconds. While this is happening, the players are watching the big-screen. Then Flip walks back with a few seconds left in the time out, says a bit.

Larry Brown, however, uses the whole clock to jaw at his players. Interesting difference.

Posted by: cballer | November 30, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Another thing about the game...

It was a giant funeral. The team used any and every opportunity to eulogize Abe on the video screen and the loudspeakers. It was just a depressing and sad event.

"What was Abe's favorite charity? Text your vote to..."

The kiss cam, followed by a picture of Abe's vacant chair.

I'd rather Abe's memory to be honored by an excitement and buzz in the arena he built. Let's get to it. First order of business...enough with the funeral.

Posted by: cballer | November 30, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Cballer,

Thats very interesting. I've seen other coaches do what Flip does as well. Butcha' know, it may have everything to do with the players on which approach is better.

The way these players are villified for not being serious about there duty, you would think Flip would want to use the whole clock as well.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 30, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"The way these players are villified for not being serious about there duty, you would think Flip would want to use the whole clock as well."

If he had used the whole clock, would Jamison have gotten at least one rebound?

Posted by: 2020doc | November 30, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

jamison's an allstar,averages a dub-dub, brings it every night, watch your mouth lol
6pts 0 rebs 0 assts his 1st triple single of the season. Ny didn't play as well as he had played the past 2 games. Gil was bad CB was the leading scorer, but that's about all the leadring he did saturday, often settling for Js, and dribbling the ball off his feet. I'd break up the Big 3. At this point u stick w/AJ and Gil and hope to get some value for CB in a trade. Foye is looking rough, it seems like Flip is strugglin to find the right mix to put on the floor. i also saw less plays run for/involving NY in the Rip mold, i guess someone had an issue with his 20+ SHOTS the other night, had to put the youngster back in his place.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 30, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company