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Morning brew, Sunday brunch edition (UPDATED)

The ugliness continued for the Wizards Saturday night against the Spurs. And based on the scenes Michael Lee witnessed during Washington's 106-84 loss to San Antonio, it's not going to get better any time soon. All of this ended too late to make many dead-tree versions of The Post (thank you, 8:30 start) but Mr. Lee covers it in his postgame thoughts.

UPDATE: NBA.com posted some comments made by Gilbert Arenas and Brendan Haywood after the game, which Mr. Lee will cover in his off-day story.

Here's the game story from Mike Jones of The Washington Times. And the short and not-so-sweet observations from Bullets Forever.

As usual, highlights courtesy of NBA.com:

Around the league...

Nine games on the slate Saturday, including one matinee. The Nets are still winless. LeBron James is still pretty good. Brandon Jennings can still fill it up. And the Hawks don't always win.

For the rest of the highlights, here's NBA.com's Daily Zap:

By Ed Guzman  |  November 22, 2009; 9:35 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  | Tags: Gilbert Arenas, NBA, San Antonio Spurs, Washington WIzards  
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Comments

The number of wide open shots missed by this team is mind-boggling. Yes, Spurs are good defensively, but I am talking about unobstructed, routine jumpers that pros have to make.

You can have all the ball movement in the world, if guys regularly cant hit open Js...how are you supposed to win?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

It's Arenas. He's lost the ability to finish and is therefore out of position in the role of penetrating PG. All the other Wiz problems, including Butler's lack of production, cascade down from Arenas' poor play. I also fear that the Arenas problem will only get worse with regard to his physical condition since he's now playing with his left knee wrapped. To me, that's an ominous sign that the medical condition has not been successfully addressed. If only this were recognized at the time of this year's draft, perhaps the Wiz would have traded up to grab Tyreke Evans or down and get Brandon Jennings. Either of those two players in the lineup instead of Gil would have this team above .500 even without Mike Miller and Randy Foye. I don't blame EG since he acted optimally with the information available to him, not the 20-20 hindsight that I possess. It's bad luck rather than bad management.
And I don't hold out much hope that Javaris Crittenton, with his lack of shooting skill, is the savior.

Ironically, at this point, the best occurrence might be for Gil to "call it a day" and have Boykins and/or Foye man the point. This would allow FS to install a much more fluid offense with the ball getting distributed to people with "open looks" rather than having a PG with eroding skills dominate.

Posted by: phil27 | November 22, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

I missed the game cuz i was at the VCU-Oklahoma game. Good thing too, since VCU completely dismantled #17 OU.

On the drive home, I was hoping there'd be some good news about the Wiz game. I don't know what to say. This is awful.

Who is the locker room killer? I have read of 'rifts' and such. Between who?

I don't care so much about NY...there were 8 guys on the floor in Richmond that could outplay him. But we have let McGee play. It would be a different story if we were winning or even close in these games, but what are you losing if mcgee gets in there? let him play with AB for a while. let him play with Jamison. hell, even try AB, Jamison and Mcgee at the same time or two of them plus Haywood. if you are losing at an average of 20 pts per game, who cares...try something!!!

On a better note. larry Sanders for VCU is the real deal. he is a 20 yr old JR but he is now listed at 6'11" (last year 6'9") and he can play D with both his feet and his extraordinary wngspan, hit a 3 last night works hard, gets boards blocks and dunks and can dish when needed.

At least now that college ball has started I have something worth watching.

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

yeah, hearing Phil say Gil's knee wrap was "just for warmth" didnt give me much comfort.

I dont think it's all Gil though, whole team looks out of synch. Like they dont know the system nor each other.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

It's Arenas. He's lost the ability to finish and is therefore out of position in the role of penetrating PG. All the other Wiz problems, including Butler's lack of production, cascade down from Arenas' poor play. I also fear that the Arenas problem will only get worse with regard to his physical condition since he's now playing with his left knee wrapped. To me, that's an ominous sign that the medical condition has not been successfully addressed. If only this were recognized at the time of this year's draft, perhaps the Wiz would have traded up to grab Tyreke Evans or down and get Brandon Jennings. Either of those two players in the lineup instead of Gil would have this team above .500 even without Mike Miller and Randy Foye. I don't blame EG since he acted optimally with the information available to him, not the 20-20 hindsight that I possess. It's bad luck rather than bad management.
And I don't hold out much hope that Javaris Crittenton, with his lack of shooting skill, is the savior.

Ironically, at this point, the best occurrence might be for Gil to "call it a day" and have Boykins and/or Foye man the point. This would allow FS to install a much more fluid offense with the ball getting distributed to people with "open looks" rather than having a PG with eroding skills dominate.


Posted by: phil27 | November 22, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

___________________________________________
Hindsight is what differentiate a great GM from a poor GM. They get paid to have hindsight!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

undoubtedly gil's not 100% physically as he appears to be favoring his surgically repaired knee but imo his performance issues stem from problems from the neck up. put him at shooting guard and get it over with!

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Mike, I'm begging you... Can you please do a report on the Wizards' medical staff! They are the worst training staff ever assembled. I want to know, who assembled them and why are they never held accountable for all the injuries that this team suffer and who makes the decisions on when to hold a player back and when to let them play (i.e., Mike Miller). Please. We want answers!

Posted by: CBell29 | November 22, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

and btw, boykins is by no means a distributor. He's a scorer who dominates the shot clock all too often, as we saw last night.

remember the articles about how weak Gil's leg was barely a month before the season? And how Grover somehow had him going from no strength to full strength in a few weeks? Sounded laughable at the time and now it looks laughable.

The question is, can his leg continue to recover and gain strength during the season? Or is the daily grind too much for gains to be made?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Mike, I'm begging you... Can you please do a report on the Wizards' medical staff! They are the worst training staff ever assembled. I want to know, who assembled them and why are they never held accountable for all the injuries that this team suffer and who makes the decisions on when to hold a player back and when to let them play (i.e., Mike Miller). Please. We want answers!

Posted by: CBell29 | November 22, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse
__________________________________________
I can answer some of your questions. The GM is responsible for assembling and supervising the medical staff.
You know, the same GM that drafted NY, Pecherov, the same GM that gave a severely injured player $111 million and the same GM that turned down a trade for Stoudemire.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"the same GM that turned down a trade for Stoudemire."

Wasnt Amare coming off a serious eye-injury? Didnt the trade include Jamison and Butler?

Would the team be winning with Amare now, minus those two?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

would the team have a better foundation with stoudemire sans antawn and caron?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

was stoudemire's eye-injury the reason the trade didn't go through or was it grunfeld's reluctance to include caron?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

it was the inclusion of Caron apparently.

but let's remember, not only was Amare coming off a serious eye injury- he was a malcontent demanding a trade and looking for his next payday.

So EG would have had to trade our guys plus sign Amare to a big deal...or at least that's how I remember it

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

would stoudemire's likely annual salary have been any/much bigger than the combined annual salaries of caron and antawn?

a legit, in-his-prime power forward is hard to come by. he's no 'tweener as caron and antawn are imo.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

he's also mentally "checked out" on a few occasions and been so disgruntled the Suns tried to move him in his prime. He basically stopped trying late last season and word in the Suns org was all bad.

I'm not saying he's not a great player or anything, just that there were quite a few question marks around him. And unlike 'tweener Antawn, there's no guarantee Amare would behave like a pro's pro on this team.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards right now are one of the worst teams in the league, and that is not debatable. And for all intents and purposes, this team is playing without Gilbert Arenas. I don't know who the guy in No. 0 jersey is, but it isn't Arenas. He gets into the lane and gets no lift (afraid to jump?), he has no depth on his jumper (can't really shoot from anywhere, anyway) and defensively he's as lax as he ever was. Butler has lost all shooting touch, as well. I'm watching the Spurs game this morning and I'm thinking, what will it take to get NY some run? I'm not a big NY advocate by any means, but at some point you have to realize what you have isn't working and try something new, so play the young guys. McGee got some time, but DM and NY stayed glued to the bench. Saunders needs to shuffle his lineup and start stripping minutes from the "stars" who aren't playing well.

Posted by: CDon | November 22, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Hindsight is what differentiate a great GM from a poor GM. They get paid to have hindsight!

No...FORESIGHT is what does it. And Amare without Butler and Jamison isn't much better. Knee and Eye surgeries and he wants a max contract now so about 33 million of the cap would be tied up in 2 players. I guess you don't have the FORESIGHT to be an NBA GM.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"He gets into the lane and gets no lift (afraid to jump?), he has no depth on his jumper (can't really shoot from anywhere, anyway)"

How long does Gil get before you think he's "done"? He's 11 games into a comeback after basically 2 years on the sidelines. In your opinion, at what point do we know for sure he's lost "it" forever?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yeah Nick Young was in street clothes last night...gotta wonder what he's doing or NOT doing to end up in that role.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

there was no shortage of takers for stoudemire. the suns wisely decided that the smarter move was to keep him.

and also, unlike antawn, he blocks shots and is known as a guy who will at least attempt to play defense.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

and also, unlike antawn, he blocks shots and is known as a guy who will at least attempt to play defense.

You can't be serious. Amare is not even remotely known for defense. It's quite the opposite.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

but the Suns were willing to trade him for Butler and Antawn, how can you call that "wise" when apparently EG was foolish for not approving the same deal?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

the team is 3-8 and you can be sure NY still has that big ol'grin on his face at all times. that's probably all Flip needs to see for him to be buried.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

You can't be serious. Amare is not even remotely known for defense. It's quite the opposite.

blocked shots are a defensive statistic.

amare: 1.5 bpg for his career.

antawn: 0.4 bpg for his career.

three times more blocked shots than our pro's pro.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

and also, unlike antawn, he blocks shots and is known as a guy who will at least attempt to play defense.>>

As others have mentioned, he does not "attempt to play defense"--that's one of his big problems.

Another is his attitude, and I'd say we already have enough guys on this team with attitude problems.

Posted by: nmik | November 22, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

read my post again, divi3.

i said the suns were wise in keeping amare, not for putting him out on the block or entertaining trades.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

As others have mentioned, he does not "attempt to play defense"--that's one of his big problems.

see the above.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

tgif11, you say they were wise to keep him. But they were willing to trade him for CB/AJ. It was ernie who nixed the deal.

So they believed AJ/CB are worth more than Amare, and EG agreed. Doesnt that make it wise for EG to have nixed the deal?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

blocked shots are a defensive statistic.

amare: 1.5 bpg for his career.

antawn: 0.4 bpg for his career.

three times more blocked shots than our pro's pro.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse


If you think blocking shots is the definition of defense then we don't even need to continue discussing this.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

If you think blocking shots is the definition of defense then we don't even need to continue discussing this.

now we're switching the topic to definitions of defense?

lame

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

the Suns dont play defense. They tried last season, failed, and went back to run and gun.

I'm sure Amare is a better defender than AJ, but am not seeing where his defense is why EG should have pulled the trigger on the trade

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

No I'm not switching the topic. Defense is more than blocking shots. Javale averages a block per game on his career and I know you don't consider him a good defender.

Google it. It's pretty much common knowledge that Amare is a terrible defender.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

As an individual defender her has serious issues...who let's Mehmet Okur blow by them?!

Amare is Javale with a much mroe developed game. He gets by on athleticism and doesn't have the fundamentals. So yeah he's amazing offensively...but you can't get by on athleticism alone.

Trust it's going to be much different when it's not Steve Nash feeding him too.

Doesn't mean he's not talented...but defense is not a strong point.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

You gotta wonder if Flip is trying to make some kind of statement to his team by not dressing Nick & not giving any PT to Dom, Javale and cutting down on Blatches time.
Seems to me that Eddie Tap tried this last year and we know how that turned out.
The Wizzies are sure dashing my high hopes for this season.
I thought with this Coaching staff they could reach the players & get them to buy into playing as a team. Wrong again----2nd time this year.

Posted by: VBFan | November 22, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

javale is getting 7mins a game so far this season, seems downright bizarre to not even attempt to develop a 20yr old, super athletic, 7 footer. Especially considering it's Haywood's contract year

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

This whole debate about that (largely) imaginary Stoudemire trade -- I'm of the opinion that Amare, like Steve Nash, benefits enormously from that free-flowing Phoenix offensive philosophy, and would need an extended adjustment to any other scheme. Doesn't mean he wouldn't eventually flower elsewhere -- but it would take quite a while.

I suspect Ernie Grunfeld could see that, too.

Butler and Jamison, on the other hand, would probably have done as well or better in Phoenix than here.

I think the Wiz were smart not to make that trade -- assuming it was ever offered in the first place.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 22, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

So they believed AJ/CB are worth more than Amare, and EG agreed. Doesnt that make it wise for EG to have nixed the deal?

you're assuming that they thought AJ/CB were "worth" more. i do not. jamison had a long term deal but butler only had two more years left on his deal at the time.

here's a link that includes some statistical observations on amare's "defense".

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/6/3/897950/amare-stoudemire-in-dc-for-that

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

On Javale McGee: he's not yet ready for extended minutes in NBA games. The counter-argument that you hear on this blog -- that he can't improve unless he sees playing time -- is valid once the game (or the season) is written off, but not before. If you're trying to win a particular game, you'll probably do better with Haywood or Oberto on the court.

That's not to say Javale isn't improved over last year -- he is. Stronger, more disciplined, and with less wasted effort. I'd like to see him shoot more when he's out there, because I think his overall play improves when he's making baskets. But as to why Flip hasn't played him, it's not a mystery -- Saunders is trying to get the Wiz to play better as a unit, and McGee doesn't contribute in that respect.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 22, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

think the Wiz were smart not to make that trade -- assuming it was ever offered in the first place.

Exactly...I don't see why Phoenix would even do it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I think Flip has been trying to get his starters + the short bench - Blatche and Foye and Boykins and Stevenson - enough time on the court to play through their funk. Why do I think this? Because that is what he said he'd do before the season started and it is what he said he is doing a few times over the past couple weeks.

Probably a good strategy for a while, and since we have only had 3 games with our starters all on board, maybe he needs to give it another week or so. But at some point, you have to say WTF???? and start playing some new guys.

I think everyone is right that Gil needs to move to the 2. It is obvious we are way overpaying him, but whether he is making 5 mil or 15 mil, he can contribute 15 pts and a few assts each game. Can we count on Foye or DSteve for that?

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Amare is Javale with a much mroe developed game. He gets by on athleticism and doesn't have the fundamentals. So yeah he's amazing offensively...but you can't get by on athleticism alone. Trust it's going to be much different when it's not Steve Nash feeding him too. Doesn't mean he's not talented...but defense is not a strong point.


amare is younger and better power forward than antawn. that's who we're comparing amare to, right?

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Exactly...I don't see why Phoenix would even do it.

we're finally in agreement.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

gotta disagree about not playing javale. the little time he gets on the floor now is energetic and effective enough to warrant some more PT imho, even with the obvious flaws.

i dont see where he shouldnt be getting more time against opposition 2nd teamers

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

those comments on nba.com are turrible...but at least Flip says the lineup will be shaken up Tuesday

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I can post links too. And there are pages upon pages about Amare being a bad defender, let alone the effort, locker room and health issues.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/6/4/898840/an-alternate-view-on-amare-antawn

Here's more statistical analysis about his "defense"

Besides...Phoenix is willing to move him for a reason. Why is that? Who moves players that "good" in their prime?

Amare is younger, better possibly...but it depends on what you want.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"..objective scientific statistical evidence that says that Al Jefferson is in fact the worst defending PF and Amare is near the bottom, WHILE JAMISON IS IN FACT ABOVE AVERAGE AT DEFENDING."

is this really possible?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm just throwing this out there: What if we let Gil just go crazy for a few games...let him jack it up 30-40 or more times. Drive as often as he can and hopefully he gets a couple 40+ point games.

Of course we probably lose, but we are doing that anyway.

So whats the point? he gets a little more confidence. Other teams have to try to play him tighter. And hopefully, if he sets himslef up as a legitimate star again, he will start getting a few more calls.

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

They can tinker with the complementary players - giving more minutes to McGee or more to Young or whatever scenario you come up with - but if the big three aren't playing well they're simply not competitive.

Overall, this is still a poor team when they don't shoot well. If they shoot well, they're competitive.

You can say that, of course, about 3/4s of the teams in the league.

Until they figure out a team "personality", until they can figure out how to win when shooting poorly, they'll be a also-ran.

I give them another 20 games until they make changes.

First to go? Butler.

Posted by: SteveMG | November 22, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

"..objective scientific statistical evidence that says that Al Jefferson is in fact the worst defending PF and Amare is near the bottom, WHILE JAMISON IS IN FACT ABOVE AVERAGE AT DEFENDING."

is this really possible?

What the Addidas slogan? Impossible is nothing.

LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Besides...Phoenix is willing to move him for a reason. Why is that? Who moves players that "good" in their prime?

when the smoke cleared why did the suns keep him?

he was on the market because they didn't want to pay him max money imo and with the economy the way it is they may not have to. they know they can pay him more than what anybody else offers him next summer so it may be wiser to just wait. the obvious downside is he may leave them high and dry. it happens.

why did the suns keep him?

and didn't a "good" antawn get moved in his prime? twice.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Hindsight is what differentiate a great GM from a poor GM. They get paid to have hindsight!

No...FORESIGHT is what does it. And Amare without Butler and Jamison isn't much better. Knee and Eye surgeries and he wants a max contract now so about 33 million of the cap would be tied up in 2 players. I guess you don't have the FORESIGHT to be an NBA GM.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse
__________________________________________
Ok, Mr blind follower, Amare is one of the best PF in the league and I am taking your comments not to get him as a joke. Grunfeld signed GA with 2 much more severe knee injuries to a 6-year contract ($111 mill) and Stoudemire is making less than GA.
People like you live on hope (and that's how Abe and Snyder make all their money), you buy into the hype for about half of the season and afterwards, you start looking forward to the following season again believing in empty promises. And the cycle keeps going.
Let me say this again: THIS TEAM, AS PRESENTLY CONSTRUCTED IS GOING NOWHERE!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Yeah Nick Young was in street clothes last night...gotta wonder what he's doing or NOT doing to end up in that role.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

___________________________________________
Do you really have to wonder what he is doing wrong to not get some burn? Let me give you some clues (you need to take off your blinders).
How about being a total draft bust that doesn't know how to play the game of basketball? How about looking like he totally doesn't care? How about "jogging" back on defense everytime?.....
NY isn't deserving of being at the end of the bench, he is deserving of being at the end of the bench on a D-League team.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

What the Addidas slogan? Impossible is nothing.

lol.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I think everyone is right that Gil needs to move to the 2. It is obvious we are way overpaying him, but whether he is making 5 mil or 15 mil, he can contribute 15 pts and a few assts each game. Can we count on Foye or DSteve for that?

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

__________________________________________
Ok, you are saying cut the losses and get whatever you can from him at the 2 position but there are a couple of issues:
1) Who is going to defend the abundance of great bigger 2 guards in the league (and no, not GA, he can't even defend points).
2) Who is going to play the point, Foye, like GA, isn't a pure point either.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

EG going for Stoudemire would be accepting damaged goods. Of more concern than the eye problem (partially detached retina), Stoudemire has had severe pain in both knees at a relatively young age requiring the extreme microfracture procedure on one of them. He's already lost some of the hops that made him truly outstanding. Caron and Jamison for him would have been a big mistake.

Regarding my earlier post on Arenas being the problem, I don't think moving him to SG solves anything. He's out of position at SG since he's not a spot-up shooter. Mike Miller or Caron is the Wizard's best option at SG.

My fearless forecast as to the eventual starting lineup coming hopefully in a few weeks:
1- Foye, 2- Butler, 3-Jamison, 4-Blatche and 5-Haywood. This team will successfully compete for the seven or eight playoff spot.

Posted by: phil27 | November 22, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

OK..utilitybelt:

what do you suggest we do? Blow it up means nothing when you have an untradeable "star" that is underperforming. I don't know who plays point, maybe we should ask all the people who in july Aug and Sept kept saying we have too many guards and were thin upfront.

They obviously knew what they were talking about didn't they?

How bout we let Mike James take the point. maybe tell him to jack it up and put up a few 25 pt games to increase his trade value?

Crit?

The Wizards worlds an ugly place to you, obviously, but you don't seem to have an offer of something better

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Phil...are you suggesting Arenas moves to the bench or gets traded or sits out?

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, where's Gil?

Posted by: and_1 | November 22, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

when the smoke cleared why did the suns keep him?

he was on the market because they didn't want to pay him max money imo and with the economy the way it is they may not have to. they know they can pay him more than what anybody else offers him next summer so it may be wiser to just wait. the obvious downside is he may leave them high and dry. it happens.

why did the suns keep him?

According to posters on here. The Suns kept him because Ernie is a terrible GM who rejected the trade.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

still not getting all this "pure point" talk. the league has been moving towards scoring 1s for awhile now, and ball movement isnt created by one player- everybody has to be involved with moving it around.

look how poorly the team shoots the ball, several assists a night dont happen due to CB and Gil missing shots they should make.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

OK..utilitybelt:

what do you suggest we do? Blow it up means nothing when you have an untradeable "star" that is underperforming. I don't know who plays point, maybe we should ask all the people who in july Aug and Sept kept saying we have too many guards and were thin upfront.

They obviously knew what they were talking about didn't they?

How bout we let Mike James take the point. maybe tell him to jack it up and put up a few 25 pt games to increase his trade value?

Crit?

The Wizards worlds an ugly place to you, obviously, but you don't seem to have an offer of something better

Posted by: Blurred | November 22, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

__________________________________________
Well, we should have never mortgaged 6 years of our future on a pseudo star.
It's very hard to fix a team in the short term with an untradable star that makes too much money and has a long term contract. But why dwell on the past?
Right now (beside hoplessly pursuing trades), I would have this starting line up, it wouldn't mysteriously solve all our problems but it would be something worth trying:
1) Gil (still better than Foye)
2) Miller (our best player so far)
3) Jamison
4) Blatche
5) Haywood

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Ok, Mr blind follower, Amare is one of the best PF in the league and I am taking your comments not to get him as a joke. Grunfeld signed GA with 2 much more severe knee injuries to a 6-year contract ($111 mill) and Stoudemire is making less than GA. People like you live on hope (and that's how Abe and Snyder make all their money), you buy into the hype for about half of the season and afterwards, you start looking forward to the following season again believing in empty promises. And the cycle keeps going.
Let me say this again: THIS TEAM, AS PRESENTLY CONSTRUCTED IS GOING NOWHERE!

You're an angry guy. I can see you smashing the keys right now about to have a heart attack or bust a blood vessel. I'm not a blind follower don't know where that came from. I like basketball, I've played it all my life and now I coach it. You pretty much show your inability to understand basketball everyday you post and I pretty much ignore you so here is your little bit of attention.

And I never said don't get Amare...do you read? And Amare makes less than Gil because he's up for his max contract this year slapnuts.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"According to posters on here. The Suns kept him because Ernie is a terrible GM who rejected the trade."

Well that's ridiculous. The Suns had other suitors for Stoudemire's services. They kept him because he's better than anything the Wiz or anybody else offered.

Posted by: and_1 | November 22, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

In response to my fearless forecast as to the eventual starting lineup coming hopefully in a few weeks:
1- Foye, 2- Butler, 3-Jamison, 4-Blatche and 5-Haywood. This team will successfully compete for the seven or eight playoff spot.
__________________________________________
Blurred posted: Phil...are you suggesting Arenas moves to the bench or gets traded or sits out?
___________________________________________
I said it was a "fearless forecast" and it is totally based on Gil's physical condition forcing him to "shut it down" or Flip realizing that he's become more of liability than an asset and "benching him".

Posted by: phil27 | November 22, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

They kept him because he's better than anything the Wiz or anybody else offered.

Posted by: and_1 | November 22, 2009 2:45 PM

but they did have their price apparently, and in their minds AJ/CB were worth more than Amare. EG agreed so the deal didnt happen, or at least that's the hearsay reported

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

And this is where you show no knowledge of basketball. Jamison can't play the 3. He's too slow and Blatche has no post game. So then you take a team that shoots too many jumpers...into another team that guess what? SHOOT EVEN MORE JUMPERS. With Oberto or McGee as the first big man off the bench.

If you think Jamison's defense is bad, wait until you make him a perimeter defender trying to keep up with 3s...

Gerald Wallace, Rashard Lewis, Granger, Pierce, Hedo, Thad Young, just some of the 3's he would have to guard.

Yeah that sounds like a winner.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

I can answer some of your questions. The GM is responsible for assembling and supervising the medical staff.
You know, the same GM that drafted NY, Pecherov, the same GM that gave a severely injured player $111 million and the same GM that turned down a trade for Stoudemire.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I know why the Suns didnt do it. Because it made no logical sense to do so.

Some of us can tap NBA GMs phone conversations and know more than everyone else though.

I wish I could get that kind of access.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

You're an angry guy. I can see you smashing the keys right now about to have a heart attack or bust a blood vessel. I'm not a blind follower don't know where that came from. I like basketball, I've played it all my life and now I coach it. You pretty much show your inability to understand basketball everyday you post and I pretty much ignore you so here is your little bit of attention.

And I never said don't get Amare...do you read? And Amare makes less than Gil because he's up for his max contract this year slapnuts.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse
___________________________________________
Not angry at all, disappointed, yes.
You may be a basketball coach (not all basketball coaches know what they are talking about) but the issue we are discussing at the moment is management.
You have questioned the Stoudemire trade and I think that's a trade we should have pursued. If he works out, sign him to what he deserves, if he doesn't, let him walk...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

More and more I'm starting to think there might not be a fix for the Wiz. At the risk of inciting the faithful, we look like a lottery team more often than not and since Jamison came back we appear to be slipping on defense as well.
The pieces just don't appear to fit.
Are there problems in the locker room?

Posted by: and_1 | November 22, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"Are there problems in the locker room?"

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/22/wizards.changes/index.html

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

No.

If you took the time to read. I never questioned the Stoudemire trade. I said he has issues. I'm pretty sure I said if I was Phoenix I wouldn't do it. Which would mean that I think Stoudemire is the better player.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

No.

If you took the time to read. I never questioned the Stoudemire trade. I said he has issues. I'm pretty sure I said if I was Phoenix I wouldn't do it. Which would mean that I think Stoudemire is the better player.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 22, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

__________________________________________
Ok, got you.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Wonder if Golden State are still interested in GA and EG can somehow convince them to give us Monta Ellis (whom they are trying to trade).

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"Gilbert Arenas said players on the team had "hidden agendas," noting that eight players on the team are free agents following the season."

OMG!!!!

The sheer hypocrisy of this statement!

I'm going to faint.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

"When asked about sacrificing his game in order for the team to win, Arenas replied, "I think the only person who actually had to sacrifice is me. Everybody else can just play their game."

That's not sitting well with at least one player. Wizards center Brendan Haywood said players need to "check their ego at the door."

"It's very frustrating because our talent isn't winning over our egos," Haywood said. "If you normally score 20 and you don't get your 20 but the team wins, who cares? Let's try and win.

"That's what the Celtics do. Paul Pierce can have 12 in the fourth quarter. [But] if they're up, he don't care. That's what we gotta do. Check your ego at the door. Move the ball. Play some defense.""

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/22/wizards.changes/index.html

LMFAO!!!!!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

"undoubtedly gil's not 100% physically as he appears to be favoring his surgically repaired knee but imo his performance issues stem from problems from the neck up. put him at shooting guard and get it over with!

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse "

And who is really 100% for the entire season?

Don't make excuses.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

"Wasnt Amare coming off a serious eye-injury? Didnt the trade include Jamison and Butler?

Would the team be winning with Amare now, minus those two?

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse "

Is the team winning now, without Amare?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"but let's remember, not only was Amare coming off a serious eye injury- he was a malcontent demanding a trade and looking for his next payday.

So EG would have had to trade our guys plus sign Amare to a big deal...or at least that's how I remember it

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse "

And Gilby wasn't a malcontent for threatening to walk for less money if he didn't get offered max money?

How about when he said he was going to play Jr. GM, but made it clear that both MeShawn and MeTawn had to be re-signed?

How about when he blamed Les BouleS for not protecting him from himself with regard to his self directed knee rehab?

It goes on....

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"he's also mentally "checked out" on a few occasions and been so disgruntled the Suns tried to move him in his prime. He basically stopped trying late last season and word in the Suns org was all bad.

I'm not saying he's not a great player or anything, just that there were quite a few question marks around him. And unlike 'tweener Antawn, there's no guarantee Amare would behave like a pro's pro on this team.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse "

Didn't Gilby also "stop trying" when he threw a hissy fit after someone called him out as a ball hog?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"there was no shortage of takers for stoudemire. the suns wisely decided that the smarter move was to keep him.

and also, unlike antawn, he blocks shots and is known as a guy who will at least attempt to play defense.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 22, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse "

Yes, and the Suns are currently 10-3.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sure Amare is a better defender than AJ, but am not seeing where his defense is why EG should have pulled the trigger on the trade

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse "

It's called playing the position that you're supposed to play...not hanging out at the 3 pt line and throwing up bombs.

That's why Les BouleS got outrebounded by 15.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...MeTawn will usually get his numbers whether the team wins or loses.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Gil said he's sacrificing his game even though he still has 55 shots more than the next wizard. That would readily be overlooked if he were making his shots but clearly he is not.

I don't know what lineup changes Flip has in mind but I'm betting Gil won't be out of the starting lineup any time soon unless he get's "injured" like he did during his tenure with the US Olympic team.

Posted by: and_1 | November 22, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

"EG going for Stoudemire would be accepting damaged goods. Of more concern than the eye problem (partially detached retina), Stoudemire has had severe pain in both knees at a relatively young age requiring the extreme microfracture procedure on one of them. He's already lost some of the hops that made him truly outstanding. Caron and Jamison for him would have been a big mistake.

Posted by: phil27 | November 22, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse "

Isn't that kind of like resigning a 3 time knee surgery patient for max money while he was still healing?

Yea, it be. Gilby that is.

Don't forget, he's also had abdominal and clavicle issues.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

If this ship is not righted, sounds to me like BTH might walk after this season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"Gil said he's sacrificing his game even though he still has 55 shots more than the next wizard. That would readily be overlooked if he were making his shots but clearly he is not.

I don't know what lineup changes Flip has in mind but I'm betting Gil won't be out of the starting lineup any time soon unless he get's "injured" like he did during his tenure with the US Olympic team.

Posted by: and_1 | November 22, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse "

It must be tough for reporters to laugh in Gilby's face whenever he tries to say something serious.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Then let him walk DC_Mann88. Haywood will find out what David Lee did this past summer. Money is hella tight with these cats as FAs:

LBJ
DWade
Dirk
Joe Johnson

JaVale might be ready for a full time role anyways next year.

Posted by: elfreako | November 22, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

My short term prediction is that Gil will be benched and injuries will be cited as the reason so his sky high pride and feelings don't get hurt.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

June 24, 2010

The day the Wizards will sell their 2nd round pick.

Who knows maybe by next year the players will have learned Flip's system?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 22, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Someone please convince me the Wizards aren’t a lottery team this year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 22, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

if this season goes south quickly, the Wiz have some pieces that other teams will want: AJ, Caron, Haywood, and Miller. With these assets, they can get younger, more athletic, or draft picks. I believe Caron, Haywood and Miller are all in their final contract year.

While Gil is playing poorly, and he seems to have no perspective as to why the team is struggling, I think he will make progress during the year and be much better next year. It is foolish to think that he would return this year as if he didn't have 3 surgeries and miss two full seasons. That begin said, he is proving that he has poor leadership qualities.

IMO Caron is having the most disappointing season of anyone. I can't count how many crucial turnovers he's had. It's as if he turns the ball 50% of the time he touches it.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | November 22, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Someone please convince me the Wizards aren’t a lottery team this year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 22, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Someone convince me that the Wizzies are better than last year.

Posted by: VBFan | November 22, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

"Someone please convince me the Wizards aren’t a lottery team this year.Posted by: bulletsfan78"
"Someone convince me that the Wizzies are better than last year.Posted by: VBFan"

Someone convince us that either one of you haven't already made up your minds and aren't willing to change them.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 22, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Zardsfan1 is on to something more interesting than a lot of the preceding blather. I completely agree that Caron is the biggest disappointment this year by far. Gilbert's regression is purely a Grant Hill type thing, unfortunate but not totally surprising, whereas Caron's regression over the past 2 years has been remarkably unexpected. IMHO, Caron got into very bad habits in last year's "sabbatical" under ETapps, where he freelanced and overdribbled with little coaching oversight, and gradually transformed himself into The Turnover King of Chinatown. He has carried that trait into 2009 with a new terrible shooting percentage to boot.

With Gilbert's contract he is here for a while, and if his recovery is going to take many more months, as seems clear, it does seem we need to take a longer view and give up on the "win now" idea, given that it seems like these guys can't pick up Flip's scheme in anywhere near the time needed to make that a realistic possibility. So I'd trade guys to contenders mid-year for longer term prospects: AJ because of his age and current value, Caron because he could still play a role for the right team, and Haywood and Miller because they are almost certain to walk at year's end given the current team chemistry. I suspect Flip might also want this, since he has inherited this team and may want more say on the types of role players for his scheme. Now that Flip is EG's guy, EG too may be less interested in standing by some of his players in the interests of giving Flip every chance to succeed.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the Arenas-Butler-Jamison era is pretty much over.

Posted by: ArchieTambo | November 22, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Someone convince us that either one of you haven't already made up your minds and aren't willing to change them.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 22, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

A 500 record will change my unmadeup mind.

Posted by: VBFan | November 22, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Zardsfan1 is on to something more interesting than a lot of the preceding blather. I completely agree that Caron is the biggest disappointment this year by far. Gilbert's regression is purely a Grant Hill type thing, unfortunate but not totally surprising, whereas Caron's regression over the past 2 years has been remarkably unexpected. IMHO, Caron got into very bad habits in last year's "sabbatical" under ETapps, where he freelanced and overdribbled with little coaching oversight, and gradually transformed himself into The Turnover King of Chinatown. He has carried that trait into 2009 with a new terrible shooting percentage to boot.

With Gilbert's contract he is here for a while, and if his recovery is going to take many more months, as seems clear, it does seem we need to take a longer view and give up on the "win now" idea, given that it seems like these guys can't pick up Flip's scheme in anywhere near the time needed to make that a realistic possibility. So I'd trade guys to contenders mid-year for longer term prospects: AJ because of his age and current value, Caron because he could still play a role for the right team, and Haywood and Miller because they are almost certain to walk at year's end given the current team chemistry. I suspect Flip might also want this, since he has inherited this team and may want more say on the types of role players for his scheme. Now that Flip is EG's guy, EG too may be less interested in standing by some of his players in the interests of giving Flip every chance to succeed.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the Arenas-Butler-Jamison era is pretty much over.

Posted by: ArchieTambo | November 22, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse
__________________________________________
The flexibility of this team has been halted when Gil was given a 6 year contract. For the next 5 years, he will be making over $20 million/ year which is more than 1/3 of the salary cap.
It wasn't a risk worth taking although alot of low common sense people on here will beg to differ.
So unless we stumble on a couple of star draft picks that are ready to contribute immediately and I am holding my breath if Ernie is the one drafting them, your plan would work in about 5 years when Gil's contract is up.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

People lets get real with this team, even with the addition of Fo, mil, and Obie from mayberry, this team is basiclly the same as 3,4 years ago, did rest of the league stand still and not get any better, this team is not compatible, to many mismatch pieces. GA is not going to turn back the clock what you see now is what he is and will be, metwain is a selfish one on one player only concern with his stats, CB is a off the bench only player who's career is on the down side, Miller has never played a whole season without missing alot of games consistantly hurt, starting or even playing Obie from mayberry is just stupid especially when you have a young stud willing to add energy and hustle and defense plus scoring he can play the forward position if giving the chance. This team is not going to win as I stated early before the season started that this team is old slow lacking basketball intel.

Posted by: getagripped | November 22, 2009 7:33 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: getagripped | November 22, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Definitely something wrong in the chemistry department. The lack of assists, forced shots, no-help defense. We're looking not like a basketball team but like a group of individuals, some of whom have little respect for others.

Flip recognizes the "bad situation," and I'm sure Ernie does as well. Guys are not playing together, and that's poison in a team game. We need the Reggie Jackson quotient -- the player who stirs the drink. We need a facilitator, not a hand-waving Superman.

We definitely need a shake-up. Flip needs to challenge this attitude, and these bad vibrations. And if it doesn't change, Ernie needs to shuffle the deck.

Caron has the most value on the market -- and, yeah, the Suns would have sent Amare if they could have had Caron in a package -- but we need to be sure we want to give up a player with his grit and talent. The problem isn't on the wing, it's at the point.

Can Gil measure up to the job he needs to perform in a team-oriented offensive set? Not sure. Boykins isn't the answer, and Foye is better suited as the "2."

We have a hole in the heart of a team.

Posted by: zinger1 | November 22, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

We have a hole in the heart of a team.

Posted by: zinger1 | November 22, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Seems like a lot of Heart problems with the Wizzies. Etan & FabO.
Not to mention the complete lack of heart as a team.
Or the broken hearts of the fans that were hyped after game 1.

Do we need a transplant or just a pace maker??

Posted by: VBFan | November 22, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

@Utilityman,

So, you just going btch and moan the whole season? It's quite comical since you consistently make little sense or get facts wrong or btch about the wrong things. GA is already on the second season of his 6 year contract, which means 4 more seasons after this one. I also wonder if you were blathering before he signed the contract or are you just a hindsight "I told you so" specialist, which is rather annoying. I, for one, was against his signing and stated in here in many threads or at least his signing for $111 million. That being said, decisions are not made without context and at the time it was pretty much presumed by the whole city that he should and would get signed for near max money. There was little to none anti-GA sentiment at the time.

So, I hope for the best while recognizing that things seem to be falling apart now. Then again, if there is a turnaround I won't be surprised either bc there is plenty of talent on this roster. Anyone who claims they knew this team would be this bad thus far are lying fools with inflated egos.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 22, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Do you all remember the 2007-08 team that won 43 games. I think the coaching staff can form a little better team than that one if they give a 2 months day off to Arenas.He is the distructer right know.Foye and MM are better than AD and mason.We still need an ideal point gard to run the show.

Posted by: gtefferra | November 22, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

@Utilityman,

So, you just going btch and moan the whole season? It's quite comical since you consistently make little sense or get facts wrong or btch about the wrong things. GA is already on the second season of his 6 year contract, which means 4 more seasons after this one. I also wonder if you were blathering before he signed the contract or are you just a hindsight "I told you so" specialist, which is rather annoying. I, for one, was against his signing and stated in here in many threads or at least his signing for $111 million. That being said, decisions are not made without context and at the time it was pretty much presumed by the whole city that he should and would get signed for near max money. There was little to none anti-GA sentiment at the time.

So, I hope for the best while recognizing that things seem to be falling apart now. Then again, if there is a turnaround I won't be surprised either bc there is plenty of talent on this roster. Anyone who claims they knew this team would be this bad thus far are lying fools with inflated egos.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 22, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

___________________________________________
I thought at the time that giving him that contract would be ludicrous and obviously my predictions, unfortunately, are right on point.
You don't mortgage your future on a player with 3 knee injuries and sign him to a long term contract while he hasn't even recovered. Period! And whomever disagrees has no idea about sports management.
Now, yes I do agree that the team has plenty of talent and they may wow us with a few performances here and there, but as a poster stated on an aforementioned post, the heart of the team is missing.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 22, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Listening to some people you'd be hard pressed to believe they are talking about a guy who is averaging 22pts/6assts/4rebs a night which is what Gil is doing.

YES, his shooting is off and he has been turning the ball over way too much. but he's been injured for 2 years!!

what's expected, that there is no room for him to improve? what we see right now is all he can ever be again?

geez, give the guy some time to adjust to the nba again and a new coach with a new system.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

"Gilbert Arenas said players on the team had "hidden agendas," noting that eight players on the team are free agents following the season."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/22/wizards.changes/index.html

Hypocrisy sucks.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

"Listening to some people you'd be hard pressed to believe they are talking about a guy who is averaging 22pts/6assts/4rebs a night which is what Gil is doing.

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse "

I guess stats matter more to you than wins.

------------------------------------------

""It's very frustrating because our talent isn't winning over our egos," Haywood said. "If you normally score 20 and you don't get your 20 but the team wins, who cares? Let's try and win.

"That's what the Celtics do. Paul Pierce can have 12 in the fourth quarter. [But] if they're up, he don't care. That's what we gotta do. Check your ego at the door. Move the ball. Play some defense.""

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 9:42 PM | Report abuse


22pts/6assts/4tos/4rebs

39%FG/37%3-pt

Posted by: 2020doc | November 22, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

"If you normally score 20 and you don't get your 20 but the team wins, who cares? Let's try and win."

Gil is scoring 20, guess BH is talking about CB

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

But Haywood indicated this problem is with the players with the ego problems are on the court for the Wizards and rather than playing within the system and spreading the ball around, they're trying to play one-on-one ball and do it all themselves.

Gilbert Arenas said he's not the problem. "I think the only person who actually had to sacrifice was me. Everybody else can just play their game."

Now, Arenas took 18 shots last night (double Caron Butler's total for the game, and seven more than Antawn Jamison despite having the worst shooting performance of the 'big three'). But he said the 18 shots taken represent a change.

"That's what I'm averaging. About 18 shots," Arenas said. "Before, I would've taken 27 shots on a night like this to keep us in the game. But I'm not trying to revert to that. Before, I'd look at Eddie and he'd say, take over the game. But I've got trust in these guys that eventually Randy's going to start hitting shots. He's coming off of injury. That Caron's going to start catching and shooting, that we'll start getting production out of Dray again. But it's only so many nights, so many games before I'm going to have to start doing what I do."

Arenas laid the blame at the feet of other players.

"Hidden agendas," he said. "You can't win like that. I have no idea why. I've never been on a team where you have eight free agents next year. I've never played on a team like that. I've never seen it turn out well. Sometimes it works out for the best because everybody's hungry and everybody's fighting. Sometimes it works out for the worst when everybody's out for their own."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/outlet/2009/nov/22/division-on-the-rise-inside-wizards-locker-room/

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

"Gil is scoring 20, guess BH is talking about CB

Posted by: divi3 | November 22, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse "

Gilby should be scoring 30 if he actually shot a decent average...

Note: Just b/c a dude is scoring 20 doesn't mean he's only taking 10 shots.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: edguzman | November 22, 2009 10:25 PM | Report abuse

When you look at this Wizards Team it is obvious to me that they are not playing to there talents, but rather they are trying to play to a system.

For instance, is it not an obvious obsevation that Javale dosen't get major minutes because the way he plays dosen't fit what Flip wants on the court now.

On the other hand if Flip wanted fast athletic guys moving up and down the court, would not Javale be a good fit.

Would not Blatche be a better fit. Even Haywood.

But Flip wants a controlled game where the point guard controls the flow of the game and facilitates the offense.

Chauncey Billips can run the ball if he needs to but he is also adept at half court tempo basketball.

Flip wants a point guard controlled game, the way Chauncey does it, which right now dosen't fit his players.

Why? Because he dosen't have a point guard playing now that can do this.

Flip would be better off going to a offense that looks to push/pass the ball up the floor by any number of players.

This team has any number of players that can pass or push the ball themselves without always looking for the point guard.

Just think about this, if you always have to find the point guard to run your offense then your offense might be seriously handicapped.

Why? Because if your point guard is not fast enough to push the ball to the talents of his teammates becuase he is recovering from major knee surgery and oh, by the way, he is not really a point guard in the mode of Chauncey Billips, but really a two guard that can't play the point, then, your offense is handicapped.

So, Flip better change his style of play or he better find himself a point guard.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 22, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

"Go back to sleep. I'll wake you when this team is ready to play ball.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse "

It's you and the Les BouleS org that's asleep.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Ha,ha,ha,ha. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Do we need a transplant or just a pace maker??


Posted by: VBFan | November 22, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I'd say having everyone well and not broken down would be a good start.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

"Ha,ha,ha,ha. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse "

I don't know what you see, but I see a 3-9 franchise that is for the most part, healthy.

Of course, being healthy and being good are mutually exclusive.

Hahahahaha.....

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Arenas said. "I've never been on a team where you have eight free agents next year. I've never played on a team like that. I've never seen it turn out well. Sometimes it works out for the best because everybody's hungry and everybody's fighting. Sometimes it works out for the worst when everybody's out for their own."

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Gil,

It's working in Miami?

But they have a "REAL" all star in D Wade!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 22, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert and Haywood are both right. Gilbert should be flat out trying to score 30 points a game and shooting more.

He should not be trying to facilitate the whole offense. That is not his game.

Haywood is right for saying the ball should be passed around and egos should be checked. Thats why you play offense by committee and not just one guy (Gilbert).

All five players should be responsible for getting the ball up the floor to the open guy, quickly and not depending on Gilbert to do it. Gilbert can score his 30, but there will still be plenty of ball to go around as long as all five players are responsible for moving it up the floor to the open guy. Right now only Gilbert is and that is why the Offense is flawed.

And don't tell me it cannot be done. There are teams right now with good point guard play that are doing it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 22, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

With Gilbert's contract he is here for a while, and if his recovery is going to take many more months, as seems clear, it does seem we need to take a longer view and give up on the "win now" idea.

Very lucid take IMO. Unfortunately, the management has been given orders by ownership to "win now." Mr. Pollin's tenure is fast running out. And when that happens then it's clean house and start all over with a new regime. The one new wrinkle will be a new owner, and hopefully someone like LEONSIS not SNYDER.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

DC:

Ha,ha,ha,ha. O-o-o, yes. MILLER, CRITTENTON, JAMISON. Oh yes, they're 100%. ARENAS is the ARENAS of old. Even OBERTO's sore hamstring is fine. Ah yes, nothing ails this club. They're 3-9.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

"Ha,ha,ha,ha. O-o-o, yes. MILLER, CRITTENTON, JAMISON. Oh yes, they're 100%. ARENAS is the ARENAS of old. Even OBERTO's sore hamstring is fine. Ah yes, nothing ails this club. They're 3-9.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 22, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse "

When have you ever known a team to be 100% healthy?

For all intents and purposes, if a player is not healthy enough to play, then he should not be on the court.

Gilby, Caron, BTH, and MeTawn....yes, 3 all stars and one solid center....all healthy for the Oklahoma game where they got blown out...Yes, the same Oklahoma team that was 4th worst in the league last season.

Same 4 guys were also witness to a blowout at the hands of the old Spurs who were minus Manu Ginobli.

Gilby today will never be the Gilby of old. Even he freely admits that after 3 surgeries...he is what he is....he is healthy, but his ability has been degraded.


Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I laugh at your inclusion of Critter to your "boo boo" list. Since when did Critter ever matter to the success of Les BouleS?

You are really reaching for excuses.

BTW, read what Gilby and BTH have been saying. Before MeTawn returned, Gilby said he was the key.

Guess what? He's back. Still two blowouts to a lottery team from last season (Thunder), and a sub .500 team (Spurs).

Also, both Gilby and BTH weren't complaining about injuries or health as the reason why the team is dysfunctional.

Both are blaming it on egos, while only BTH mentioned the lack of ball rotation and lack of defense, which includes Gilby.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Listening to some people you'd be hard pressed to believe they are talking about a guy who is averaging 22pts/6assts/4rebs a night which is what Gil is doing.

YES, his shooting is off and he has been turning the ball over way too much. but he's been injured for 2 years!!

what's expected, that there is no room for him to improve? what we see right now is all he can ever be again?

geez, give the guy some time to adjust to the nba again and a new coach with a new system.

Posted by: divi3

Gilbert should be among those realizing all of what you wrote above and that he's not what he used to be. He should rely more on the players around him and let the chips fall where they may.
We accepted his idiosyncratic ways when the team was winning and he was playing well, but now his oddities do make you wonder where winning ranks among his basketball desires.

Posted by: 2020doc | November 22, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

"We accepted his idiosyncratic ways when the team was winning and he was playing well, but now his oddities do make you wonder where winning ranks among his basketball desires.

Posted by: 2020doc | November 22, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse "

He's won already, with that max money contract.

That's why he can sit back now and rip his teammates who are trying to get paid also.

Not surprising, because he did the same thing when other dudes were trying to get paid too when he badmouthed them (eg. Okafor, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Iguodala, etc.).

At least they were all classy enough to not respond.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 22, 2009 11:15 PM | Report abuse

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