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Stevenson pleased to make James lose his focus

DeShawn Stevenson could not stop himself from grinning on Thursday, a day after he managed to sucker LeBron James into some silly quest to dominate him in the fourth quarter. Coach Flip Saunders put Stevenson on James, and the move worked out splendidly for the Wizards, as Stevenson frustrated James and the Cavaliers offense went out of whack.

"What I was trying to do was make it a one-on-one thing, so that he would forget about his teammates," Stevenson said. "He's a good player and if he gets into that mode that he's shooting all the time, it's going to be hard for them to win."

James wasn't in that mode in the first quarter, as he handed out seven of the team's 13 assists in the period, and the Cavaliers built a 10-point lead. After three quarters, James had 28 points on just 13 shots, but he appeared offended that the Wizards would put Stevenson on him in the fourth quarter. Stevenson and James have had plenty of history against each other, dating back to the time when Stevenson called the league's reigning most valuable player "overrated" in March 2008. The feud ballooned to where rappers Jay-Z and Soulja Boy got involved.

James is better than 99.9 percent of the league, if not 100 percent, so it just seemed incredibly petty that he was so focused on proving a point to Stevenson. Heck, there are several players on the Wizards who are better than Stevenson. But that singular focus to dominate Stevenson backfired. He shot just 3 of 7 with no assists and one turnover in the fourth period, and continued to attack Stevenson even as the Wizards expanded the lead to 20 points (when James entered the game with 7:45 remaining, Cleveland trailed by just nine). His last two dunks were the angry kind, built out of frustration, with a left-handed jam causing some discomfort to his wrist.

The first time they matched up, James tried to shoot a three-pointer over him and missed badly. Then he batted the ball away and James again tried to shoot another three-pointer over Stevenson -- and airballed it. Stevenson said he was still kind of amazed that the officials later gave him a blocked shot when he jumped with James and cupped the ball in mid air. He appeared to give James a little body on the play, but it was ruled a clean play and James was flustered and livid. He even picked up a technical foul in protest.

"It feels good to get a whistle," he said. "Usually, he does get those calls, it goes in his favor. Last night, we did a good job on him and played him hard. I always like playing against Cleveland. It brings out the best in the whole team."

Stevenson said he thought the bobble-arm doll -- which waved a hand over the face -- that the Wizards gave to fans last night was "pretty cool." But he did notice that the beard wasn't as bushy. "They didn't give me the shaggy," he said. "It probably cost too much money to put that on; that little chin bar."

Mike Miller and Antawn Jamison both look like pitchers who have just gone nine innings with the padding that they wear over their shoulders during games and practices. I asked Miller which look was better, his short-sleeved black top or Jamison's long-sleeved white mummy shirt.

"Mine's more of a South Dakota cut job," said Miller, who has been playing despite a sprained left shoulder. "Tawn's is more Tawn. His is better than mine. I hope we'll be out of them soon."

But Miller might want to keep it on, given how well he has played since his return. In the past two games, Miller has shot 14 of 22 (63.6 percent) and scored 37 points. In his first five games, Miller scored 42 points.

"What I've said since training camp, and I'll stick to it, is I'll make my shots when I have to, give us energy when I have to and do the things that we have to do win these games," he said. "We needed a little energy [against Cleveland], I got a little more aggressive there. Got us a little boost and tried to get us back in it before halftime. Guys have been struggling from the field, you got to be able to step in make shots for them and relieve them of some of the pressure."

Miller said that he has experienced some pain his shoulder the past two games, especially if he gets hit coming off screens or fighting for rebounds. He still managed to snag eight boards last night. "It's going to be like that for awhile. We'll keep working at it and see how it goes," Miller said.

By Michael Lee  |  November 19, 2009; 3:17 PM ET
 
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Comments

Stevenson gets a bad rap on these pages but I think Flip Saunders will use him in spurts as he did last night. Under normal circumstances, both Foye and Boykins will probably play a bit more than Stevenson.

Using Stevenson as a defensive specialist is what his role ought to be. btw, the five who played most of the 4th quarter last night -- Blatche, Miller, Butler, Boykins, and Stevenson -- looked like a unit totally comfortable with each other. Boykins and Miller make Butler a better player.

Posted by: JekyllnHyde | November 19, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

It was crazy in the "phone booth" last night. And the ladies were smoking also. But, "Nutsoo" was not letting, LeBronwine do his usual bully ball playing and that helped against the Cavs.

Posted by: ENJOYA | November 19, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Yeah NY G'd my girl...sure.

You and rbrown are the only people who bring him up. All I hear is CB and comparisons to NY which just sound stupid. I swear last week you were blaming Flip for not giving Nick enough opporunities. If that's not playing time I don't know what you meant.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

it's actually pretty clear : here's what u said u recall being said:

If I recall this week you were asking why Flip never calls plays for Nick...you're his biggest fan...it's cool though. Everybody needs a hero.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

now, asking why a player doesn't get plays called for them when they're in the game doesn't sound remotely close to saying that someone deserves more minutes; but more so it begs the question whether the player is being used effectively whenever they do get minutes. it's u that has the hardon for NY. This season, I haven't once said that he's played well or is playing well. despite my initial distaste for the trade ( i really didn't like MM coming in) i have completely reversed field and claim MM as my fave wizard at this point. NY is one of my fave young wizards and i think he will become a good player. but i ain't been politickin for his mins. and it's a fact that yall would be riding NY like seabiscut if he played 40 mins per and gave us some of the performances CB has this year. i made a comment about DS being a defensive specialist after complimenting him on his D on lebron. you took that as an opportunity to get a pots shot at NY. just let him be he doesn't even play.


Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 19, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 19, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Boykin's handle is a great asset, guy never loses his dribble and can easily burn 10secs off the clock just dribbling around- exactly what's needed with a nice lead and 4mins left in game.

No bad shots 5secs into the clock with Earl running the show.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

and even though guys can shoot over Boykins a little easier, they have trouble getting into a position where they can shoot, cuz he's so damn pesky.

Was not originally to optimistic about this pick up but after 2 games, I feel like he will help the Wiz get close to my predicted 51 wins!

More importantly, he will be a big asset come playoff time when he can just disrupt and his shot is smooth. Strange to watch the ball leaving the hand so low, but it glides so nicely.

Posted by: Blurred | November 19, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I was at the game and LeTravel hit three 3-pointers in a row in the 3rd when the Wiz were up 60-57. It looked bad when the Cavs retook the lead at 66-60 and the Wiz weren't hitting any of their shots. At the start of the 4th, the second unit stretched a 3 point lead to 9 before LeBron came back from a long rest.

DSS got into LeBron's face and was obvious that it was personal....good for the Wiz because LeBron missed a couple shots, turned the ball over, and was complaining to the refs as he ran back up the court. It was even nicer to see the jump ball call when LeBron go the T. The officiating was a lot differrent than a few weeks ago in Cleveland when the Wiz couldn't buy a call after the first quarter.

Posted by: wizfan89 | November 19, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

So far so good with Boykins. He has his pluses, but there are minuses that come with it. It's why he moved around so much and wasn't signed coming into the season. It's too early to say that the former will outweigh the latter enough to be a net positive for the Wiz. But he's done okay with the time he's been on the floor so far.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

And speaking of bad officiating . . . that call on Haywood, where he supposedly hit LeBron on the head trying to block a shot, when the replay showed his arm didn't get within 3 feet of James' noggin, was flat out laughable.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Boykins play means we'll see much more of Foye (and Gil) at 2, and much less of Debrick, and nothing of NY.

Will be interesting to see what lineups Flip settles into, and who ends up buried on the bench.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Kalo - you are right. I am just too optimisitic.

I think he fits well here.

Can you enumerate his minuses?

Posted by: Blurred | November 19, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Was also happy to see Oberto fulfilling his intended role last night. You could sense the intangibles coming from the bench.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

The Cavs built their big lead in the 2nd, when I dont think we scored a bucket for maybe 7mins. Was right in the midst of what must have been an 0-10 stretch between Caron and Gil when they were both hellbent on scoring.

jus a little better shooting and....

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"Can you enumerate his minuses?"

led the ncaa in scoring and that's what he likes to do at heart. On previous teams I've seen him try and be the #1 option on the floor...though I doubt that will happen here and at this stage of his career.

and obviously anyone can post him up, shoot over him, whatever. But when the opposing team doesnt make a point of exploiting him...very effective player

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

ducktails are win and so is Deshawn

Posted by: prescrunk | November 19, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Obviously the height thing has its drawbacks, but a short guy playing D is not worse than a good sized guy not playing D.

And for the record, the cash we got for the 2nd pick is looking better and better, when we consider it may have allowed us to sign Boykins.

And Blair had a whopping 0 pts and 1 brd last night.

Posted by: Blurred | November 19, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

meant "not much worse"

Posted by: Blurred | November 19, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"But when the opposing team doesnt make a point of exploiting him..."

Which, of course, opposing teams will make a habit of doing.

Size, defense, generally low shooting percentages. Like I said, he's done okay in the two games he's played, but that's a pretty small sample when measured against his entire career.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

And for the record, the cash we got for the 2nd pick is looking better and better, when we consider it may have allowed us to sign Boykins.

And Blair had a whopping 0 pts and 1 brd last night.

Posted by: Blurred | November 19, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

i think cutting paul davis allowed us to get earl. blair's first 0 pt 1 reb game is when u wanna be mister get bad a throw his name out there he only played 6 mins. his mins are down from the preseason and his pts and rebs are down and you gotta know that one is directly related to the other. rookies have may have a bad game or two or ten when adjusting to the speed and comp at the nba level Heavy D is gonna be just fine.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 19, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Flip does not play NY because NY is stupid, you can see it in his eyes, he has no idea what is going on. All that boy can do is shoot - not make shots - but simply shoot. He has no concept of defense, team play, offensive flow or anything remotely intangible. Ernie should trade him, I bet he could get a low first rounder for him which would become an asset next year regardless of how the team does this year.

Posted by: LoJankFilDee19338333 | November 19, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I thought the first quarter of last night's game was very disconcerting. THey looked flat. Their rotations were terrible. The Cavs were getting to the rim with ease and kicking out to wide open 3 point shooters. It was terrible, and there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of effort given how rested they were and how important the game was.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | November 19, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Boykins has burned us in the past. So I was glad when we picked him up and he did the burning *for* us. Glad to see LeTravel not only not get the foul called, but to also get the technical. People wonder why LeBron's back doesn't hurt from carrying his team for so long...well it's because he's used to it from carrying his gargantuan ego all these years.

Posted by: tundey | November 19, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I think that reason that DS was so effective on L James is thaT he was fresh. I think Foye is still recovering and when he & EB can spell GA and keep his minutes under 30 that GA will be more better.
Once the rotations get sorted out we should see a more consistent effort thru 4 Q's.

Posted by: VBFan | November 19, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Ummmmmmmm, who was that Lebron dunked on with his left hand?

I don't think there was any strategy or ploy to get #23 off his game. He darn near brought them back from 18 to 11 by himself. I'm a Wiz fan, but he almost beat them by himself again.

Posted by: oknow1 | November 19, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

No. This is what I remember:

i blame flip. he's not using NY the way he said he would and i don't think NY's been given as much opportunity this season as he should ( Deshawn Stevenson, really)

Let alone the CB turns the ball over and stays in but why doesn't Nick...everyday damn near. Get off it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Boykins has played pretty well...but my main issue with the use of Boykins is letting him bring the ball up. He spends so much time trying to get to the spot he wants to that the shot clock ends up winding down. I've seen it in both games.

Let alone the posting up on him...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

"I'm a Wiz fan, but he almost beat them by himself again."

You cannot use the phrase "almost beat them" to describe a game that was won by almost 20 points.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't sure Stevenson was gonna get in that game at all last night, but then WHAM, a little shut down D in the fourth quarter. Neat. Plus it's nice to get some calls at home, but, on the flip side, I hate that the game gets called differently in different places. Finally, the players that played last night are the players I want to see play every night - no more getting injured guys. Heh

Posted by: arn3z | November 19, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

One game does not a "LeBron Stopper' make

Until it is done consistently and where it counts (The Playoffs), then it's just an individual notch on a mediocre resume. And if you are depending on a shooter going cold as it appeared LBJ did towards the end, then that's not an accomplishment DS can claim.

Now stop with this nonsense and trade him and NY for a big perimeter defender...enough of this

Posted by: kahlua87 | November 19, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

how far back did u have to go to find that "quote" most of us round here copy and paste the name, date, and time of the poster to the repost. and even if i did say

i don't think NY's been given as much opportunity this season as he should ( Deshawn Stevenson, really)

this statement does not reflect any current desire to see NY get more minutes, but more so a commentary on the opportunity he was given and whether i thought it was as much of a shot as i thought he deserved. even if i thought he deserved a better opportunity to prove himself, that doesn't mean that this increased opportunity means more mins. as you recalled i asked why flip wasn't running NY off of screens like Rip Hamilton since that was what he said his plan for NY was this season. this seems like a more accurate assesment of my comment. but once again i like NY i think he will be a good player, i don't know if it will be here, but time will tell.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 19, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

It's graduation day at all-black Bedford Stuyvesant High School, and all of the kids are graduating and getting diplomas except for Rodney. He's a star basketball player who has a full scholarship to any school in the country, and the star of the football and baseball teams. He's the hero of all the students, but since he couldn't pass enough classes, he isn't going to graduate.
As the diplomas are being handed out, Rodney shows up in the back of the auditorium.
The studenst all see him, and they all start chanting, "Give Rodney a chance! Give Rodney a chance!"
So the principal says, "All right, Rodney, I's gonna axe you a kestion. If you can answer this kestion, you can gets a diploma, and you can gaduate. What am four plus two?"
Rodney says, "Eight."
The principal says, "I'm sorry, Rodney, that's the wrong answer. You can't gets a diploma, and you can't gaduate."
The students all chant, "Give Rodney another chance! Give Rodney another chance!"
The principal says, "All right, Rodney, I's gonna axe you another kestion. If you can answer this kestion, you can gets a diploma, and you can gaduate. What am five minus one?"
Rodney says, "Seven."
The principal says, "I'm sorry, Rodney, that's the wrong answer. You can't gets a diploma, and you can't gaduate."
The students all chant, "Give Rodney another chance! Give Rodney another chance!"
The principal says, "All right, Rodney, I's gonna give you one mo' chance. If you can answer this kestion, you can gets a diploma, and you can gaduate. What am three times three?"
Rodney says, "Nine."
The students pause...and then they start chanting, "Give Rodney another chance! Give Rodney another chance!"

Posted by: ElBigChroizo | November 19, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

"Now stop with this nonsense and trade him and NY for a big perimeter defender...enough of this"

If by "this" you mean the suggestion that trading two players who, when combined, barely count as one functional NBA SG will net the Wiz a quality big man, then I agree. Enough of that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I will not speak about NY unless he plays sorry for all tha extra.

what's up with foye when do we expect him at 100% and how bout critter? will JMc play at all the rest of the month?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 19, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Good win but the real test in OC and SA in back to back road games.If they close both with W that means they have a chance to win 6 in a row for the remaining games in Nov.8 to 7is a good sign to predict a 50 wins for the season.

Posted by: gtefferra | November 19, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

LeBaby's ego is so effing enormous that he takes it upon himself to try and dominate Debrick at all costs and messes us his own game in the process.

as to last night, we whopped dat azz, game wasnt close.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

with Foye back and Boykins onboard, we wont be seeing much of DS and none of NY.

Jamison's return probably means Oberto enjoys the bench and Javale gets little to nothing as I suspect Flip is gaining more and more confidence in AB.

Dom is the question to me. Seems odd that a hustling, rebounding, defender with his size cant seem to get any minutes

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Jackie Martling jokes on a Wiz site?

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 19, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

A few blogs back I said that BH, AB, AJ, MM, and GA should be the main five on the floor and that Butler would be great for killing the other Teams 2nd unit.

There is something to be said for Caron's play and his agressiveness goes well with the 2nd unit. At least it did for one quarter against the Cavs.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Great game! Have it tivo'd and about to watch it again..

Love the way Miller has been playing. What a great addition he is, I really like the way he plays, and the ball just seems to move around alot more when he's in there.

Boykins has shown to be an excellent pickup also. Jeff VanGundy noted his surprise that Boykins was still out there and available to the Wizards.

His addition has to be tough for Crittenton and James who were already looking to be buried pretty deep on the bench when they get back healthy. Young too is pushed further down the ladder.

Blatche didn't get much run last night, nor did Foye, with the return of Antawn and the emergence of Boykins, and I hope that isn't going to be a trend. Blatche has to be on the court as Haywood's main backup at center as well as Jamison's at PF. When Caron is out we should be using either Antawn at SF to open time for Blatche at the 4, or use Miller there to open some time for Foye.

Posted by: Darnell1 | November 19, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I went out on a limb after watching Miller early and said that he was every bit as good as a Dirk Norwitski. I did not get much response from that comment then.

But I tell ya' Miller is damn good and Minnesota never should have parted with that guy. Miller is Larry Bird good and Minnesota could have built there squad around him.

Now that we have him, I hope his shoulder heals completely because he has the temperment and the skills to mesh with his teammates and be a real star on this Team.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

"LOL...you people are funny...complain about Gil leading the league in turnovers...go look at who leads the league just about every season. Steve Nash...does that mean he's not a PG?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse "

Can't put Steve Nash in the same sentence with Gilby since Nash is a two time MVP. He must be doing something right.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be bragging if i was Deshawn the next time he see's LeTravel he might drop fifty on i can't feel my face, just leave well enough alone, now that being said, Lemouth while being interviewed by the media after the game said people shouldn't put "too much" into a November contest, WHATEVER!! yeah if your team had won it would have been "all games are important" that was some real bull sh#t Lebron pardon my french.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 19, 2009 9:06 PM | Report abuse

I love Miller's game and said from day1 he was an excellent pickup...but he aint no Larry Legend!

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Using Stevenson as a defensive specialist is what his role ought to be. btw, the five who played most of the 4th quarter last night -- Blatche, Miller, Butler, Boykins, and Stevenson -- looked like a unit totally comfortable with each other. Boykins and Miller make Butler a better player.

Posted by: JekyllnHyde | November 19, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Granted, but his salary is at least 1 million too high for a defensive specialist.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 19, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

And re:BUTLER, you saw that too. ARENAS was conspicuous by his absence.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 19, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

"I love Miller's game and said from day1 he was an excellent pickup...but he aint no Larry Legend!Posted by: divi"

As Miller would be the first to remind us.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 19, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

at the same point in their careers (thru age 25), Gil was light years better than Nash.

Then the injuries happened, and here we are.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

"at the same point in their careers (thru age 25), Gil was light years better than Nash.

Then the injuries happened, and here we are.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse "

"Light years" based on your warped interpretation.

Gilby was better as an individual player...Nash better as a team player.

Both players have suffered through injuries, and almost any coach out there would take Nash over Gilby any day to run their team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Can't put Steve Nash in the same sentence with Gilby since Nash is a two time MVP. He must be doing something right.

My comment was comparing the two...but people are talking about Gil leading the league in TO's...but Nash does it every season and like you said...he's a 2 time MVP.

Two PG's that turn the ball over that aren't good defenders at all. They are just two different types of players. Imagine if Gil played in a 7 second shot clock system like Phoenix...who knows what he would have done back then.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

I meant "wasnt comparing the two"

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

"Two PG's that turn the ball over that aren't good defenders at all. They are just two different types of players. Imagine if Gil played in a 7 second shot clock system like Phoenix...who knows what he would have done back then.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse "

Yeah, somehow Nash was able to average over 11 assist/game in just 7 seconds per possession.

Whatever.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

I love Miller's game and said from day1 he was an excellent pickup...but he aint no Larry Legend!

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:14 PM

Lets think about that for a minute Divi3 before you debunk the comparison. What did Larry do that Miller can't do talent wise?

Larry had great talent around him. He could shoot, Miller can, he could rebound Miller can, he was tough, Miller is, he was a great trash talker, is Miller?, he had confidence in his game, Miller does.

Miller would have been everything for a Minnesota Team.

With the Wizards, his talents are not going to be put above AJ and CB and GA, but Miller is flat out genuinely a good basketball player and as long as he stays and get healthier, his star will be just as bright as anyone on this Team and in the League.

Trust me when I say this, He is just that good. 6th man Award, Rookie of the Year, Prolific 3 point shooter.

When you really evaluate Miller, don't let the forest blind you.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

"I went out on a limb after watching Miller early and said that he was every bit as good as a Dirk Norwitski. I did not get much response from that comment then."

"But I tell ya' Miller is damn good and Minnesota never should have parted with that guy. Miller is Larry Bird good and Minnesota could have built there squad around him."

Dirk Nowitzki? Larry Bird?!

(A) Enough already with the comparing white players only to other white players. (B) You're out of you mind.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

BTW, Nash averages 2.7 TO's/game...Gilby at 3.3 in their careers.

Nash smokes him in all FG/FT percentages.

Nash would have a much higher scoring average if he took as many shots as Gilby.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse

'"Light years" based on your warped interpretation.'

Nash started 11 games in his first 2 seasons, single digit scoring and assists. You should think before you type.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

And I forgot to add he is an excellent passer and also knows how to play the game.

He has those intangibles that Oberto can only dream about.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

"almost any coach out there would take Nash over Gilby...."

at age 25, not a single coach or gm in the entire league would have taken nash over gil. NOT ONE.

Which is relevant to nothing right now of course.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, somehow Nash was able to average over 11 assist/game in just 7 seconds per possession.

Yes. Phoenix's offense was higher paced and they looked for shots in 7 seconds or less. Google it. Learn something before you talk.

And yes Nash's TOs are lower on his career because he spent a lot less time playing. He's been around 3.5 since he's become a full time starter.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

"But I tell ya' Miller is damn good and Minnesota never should have parted with that guy. Miller is Larry Bird good and Minnesota could have built there squad around him."

But they had him and he wasnt that great for them, so they dealt him.

Miller is shooting 60% right now, 57% from downtown. Obviously those numbers are going to fall and he is going to go stone cold at some points.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Mike Miller is not Larry Bird...he's a good complimentary player but he is not top 50 all time talent wise...

Funny how the tables turned...people talked about how he was a bum...now he's better than Dirk and Larry Bird.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

"Nash started 11 games in his first 2 seasons, single digit scoring and assists. You should think before you type.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse "

Which proves how stupid your comparison is with regard to "early in their careers."

Do yourself a favor and look at their complete body of work.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

"at age 25, not a single coach or gm in the entire league would have taken nash over gil. NOT ONE.

Which is relevant to nothing right now of course.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse "

And today, every coach would take Nash.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Dirk Nowitzki? Larry Bird?!

(A) Enough already with the comparing white players only to other white players. (B) You're out of you mind.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 9:36 PM

I knew I would take a hit for that type of comparison but I did it to illustrate what I really think of the talents of Miller.

You see there is no mistake about what people think of a Dirk or a Larry Bird. I could have compared him to Scottie Pippen or that guy who played for Orlando last year can't recall his name at the moment, but the type of player that Miller is not your everyday cookie cutter player.

His skills are Majic Johnson like except for the Center position. He can play 4,3,2, and 1. He isn't in Majic's class, but he can legitimately play all those positions.

Now you can say that I am hallucinating a bit, but this guy is good and time will be the true testament.

Just like I keep telling yawl' that Gilbert is a two and not a one, time is gonnal tell in both cases.

I stand by it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

"Yes. Phoenix's offense was higher paced and they looked for shots in 7 seconds or less. Google it. Learn something before you talk.

And yes Nash's TOs are lower on his career because he spent a lot less time playing. He's been around 3.5 since he's become a full time starter.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse "

And Nash scored a lot less because he took a lot fewer shots while choosing to pass and work as a team more....which is why he's a two time MVP and Gilby is nowhere near that.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

"Do yourself a favor and look at their complete body of work."

umm, i clearly stated "at the same point in their careers (thru age 25)"

but your dislike of Gil is so strong you couldnt help but go off half-informed before you actually looked at their early careers. Now that you have, gotta change the topic to their whole body of work

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

"Now stop with this nonsense and trade him and NY for a big perimeter defender...enough of this"

If by "this" you mean the suggestion that trading two players who, when combined, barely count as one functional NBA SG will net the Wiz a quality big man, then I agree. Enough of that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

They can trade both of them for an injured Raja Bell and I'd be cool with that. Raja IS a big perimeter defender who can hit 3's. He ain't a pretender...

Posted by: kahlua87 | November 19, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

"And yes Nash's TOs are lower on his career because he spent a lot less time playing. He's been around 3.5 since he's become a full time starter.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse ""

BTW, learn how to do some analysis and math before you start yapping.

If you look at Nash's assist:turnover ratio since he's been with the Suns, it's around 3.05.

If you look at Gilby's assist:turnover ratio since he's been with Les BouleS, it's 1.94 if you include two seasons where he played only 15 games combined due to his bum knee.

If you remove those two fluke seasons, his ratio drops to 1.5.

Now, shut up.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

"umm, i clearly stated "at the same point in their careers (thru age 25)"

but your dislike of Gil is so strong you couldnt help but go off half-informed before you actually looked at their early careers. Now that you have, gotta change the topic to their whole body of work

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse "

Again, parsing out those select data points to prove an already weak point is a waste of your time.

BTW, Gilby wasted a good portion of the prime of his career with his bum knee. Comfort yourself with this body of work before 25, because you may never see it again.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

"If you look at Nash's assist:turnover ratio since he's been with the Suns, it's around 3.05."

why arent you looking at his first 7 years in the league, 5 which he was starter for the Mavs? Do those not count?

Or do his numbers look much better when he went into D'antonis system, which is what SDMTSU is saying?

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse

And Nash scored a lot less because he took a lot fewer shots while choosing to pass and work as a team more....which is why he's a two time MVP and Gilby is nowhere near that.

Okay...and he still turns the ball over damn near 4 times a game...whats your point? That's all I'm saying.

Besides they are two different players. Gil is a scorer who plays PG, Nash is a pure PG. Either was they turn the ball over. Two different players playing two different roles...SAME RESULT.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

"why arent you looking at his first 7 years in the league, 5 which he was starter for the Mavs? Do those not count?

Or do his numbers look much better when he went into D'antonis system, which is what SDMTSU is saying?

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse "

If you include the Dallas years when he became a full time starter in 00-01 with 70 games started all the way until now, his assist:turnover average drops from 3.05 to 3.0.

If you look at Dallas alone as a full time starter, his assist:turnover ratio is 2.91. That's almost double Gilby's ratio.

Again, you can shut up now too.


Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

"Okay...and he still turns the ball over damn near 4 times a game...whats your point? That's all I'm saying.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse "

Again, see data above.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Okay...Nash passes more and Gil scores more. System, personnel and the role they play is different. Nash will never average 28 and Gil won't average 11 assists a game for 6 years. What exactly is your point?

You're actually making my point for me. Everyone is saying you can't have a PG that leads the league in turnovers but the best pure PG in the league does it every year. So what are you saying?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Oh please. I've been throwing Miller's name around here for the better part of 3 years as the kind of player the Wizards should get to fill out the roster. So you'd be well advised to check yourself before trying to act like you discovered him. I know how good he is and have known since well before you had a clue (which is giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you have one now). And knowing that, I know that as good as he is, he's not Bird, Nowitzki, Magic or Pippen good.

That's just nonsense.

As for "time telling" . . . this is his 10th year in the NBA. Time has pretty much written the story of how good he is. Of course, if you'd followed his entire career and hadn't just jumped on the bandwagon and tried to elbow your way into the driver's seat, you'd know that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

"why arent you looking at his first 7 years in the league, 5 which he was starter for the Mavs? Do those not count?

Or do his numbers look much better when he went into D'antonis system, which is what SDMTSU is saying?

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse "

It's kind of stupid for you accuse me of selectively looking at numbers that you assume would adversely affect Nash's comparison to Gilby when you yourself are trying to make an argument, albeit a weak one, based on selectively analyzing data when comparing Nash vs. Gilby career up to the age of 25 years.

"umm, i clearly stated "at the same point in their careers (thru age 25)"

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse "

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

"If you look at Dallas alone as a full time starter, his assist:turnover ratio is 2.91. That's almost double Gilby's ratio."

And? He also scored about 15 a game while Gil was scoring 26 or so.

All I ever said was that Gil was the superior player for the first few years of their respective careers. That's obviously true.

What's your point?

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

"Okay...Nash passes more and Gil scores more. System, personnel and the role they play is different. Nash will never average 28 and Gil won't average 11 assists a game for 6 years. What exactly is your point?

You're actually making my point for me. Everyone is saying you can't have a PG that leads the league in turnovers but the best pure PG in the league does it every year. So what are you saying?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse "

Besides me proving you wrong?

Nash doesn't score like Gilby because he takes a lot fewer shots...not because he's bad at scoring the basket.

As I've said, which you've not been able to understand:

Nash Career:
FG: .487
3FG: .432
FT: .901

Gilby Career:
FG: .426
3FG: .359
FT: .807

Nash is a natural/gifted passer who can score when he wants.

Gilby is not a natural/gifted passer who gets his points based on sheer volume of shots taken, albeit at a much lower shooting percentage.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

"All I ever said was that Gil was the superior player for the first few years of their respective careers. That's obviously true.

What's your point?

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse "

The point that you've proven is that it was a stupid comparison.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

"Nash is a natural/gifted passer who can score when he wants."

Well then perhaps he should have wanted to score more, as his team has always ended up with less points than their opponents when it was all said and done.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Oh please. I've been throwing Miller's name around here for the better part of 3 years as the kind of player the Wizards should get to fill out the roster. So you'd be well advised to check yourself before trying to act like you discovered him. I know how good he is and have known since well before you had a clue (which is giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you have one now). And knowing that, I know that as good as he is, he's not Bird, Nowitzki, Magic or Pippen good.

That's just nonsense.

As for "time telling" . . . this is his 10th year in the NBA. Time has pretty much written the story of how good he is. Of course, if you'd followed his entire career and hadn't just jumped on the bandwagon and tried to elbow your way into the driver's seat, you'd know that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 10:32 PM

Wow! I can totally accept that and yes in Miller's case I am late to the Party and I readily accept it.

I did assume that he was only about 5-6 years in the League, not 10.

So maybe he won't be as good or great as those guys I compared him too, but I see similar type skills and he is good at them.

Thanks for the education.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Nash may lead the league in turnovers but his assists offset those turnovers.
You make a good point that Nash will never average the points per game that Gil does, but Gil will never shoot the FG percentage that Nash does.
Nash is the better player. Period.
In fact if the Suns asked EG if he'd trade Gil for Nash now, he would have Gil's locker emptied before they could finish the sentence.

Posted by: and_1 | November 19, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Well, here's an idea: Try getting your facts straight and stop making assumptions and then trying to present them as facts. You'd be amazed at how easy it is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Gil is 28 and Nash is 35, suns can keep him

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz are trying to win now, no?

Posted by: and_1 | November 19, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

"The Wiz are trying to win now, no?"

i'm not giving up on Arenas 10 games back from a bum knee.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

This is my last post because it's pointless talking to you.

I never said Nash couldn't score.

I said he was the best pure PG in the league.

I also said he leads the league in turnovers regularly.

So to people saying a PG that leads the league in turnovers is irregular...it's not.

MVPs and assist to turnovers between Nash and Gil is like saying the sky is blue. You coulda saved the numbers...it's common knowledge.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Well, here's an idea: Try getting your facts straight and stop making assumptions and then trying to present them as facts. You'd be amazed at how easy it is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 19, 2009 10:47 PM

Well, lets not take it too far. I wasn't stating facts, just an opinion.

Although my opinion has some merit, I accept your reasonings why my comparisons dosen't pass the smell test.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 19, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

"Gil is 28 and Nash is 35, suns can keep him

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse "

What has absolutely nothing to do with your defeated argument.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

"has absolutely nothing to do with your defeated argument.

Posted by: DC_MAN88'

are you learning disabled? i was responding to and_1's suggestion EG would trade gil for nash.

again, try reading and thinking before typing.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

"I also said he leads the league in turnovers regularly.

So to people saying a PG that leads the league in turnovers is irregular...it's not.

MVPs and assist to turnovers between Nash and Gil is like saying the sky is blue. You coulda saved the numbers...it's common knowledge.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 19, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse "

And Nash's assist to turnover ratio, which is the data point that 1 guards are graded on, show Nash's overwhelming edge over Gilby.

It's common knowledge, unless your handle is divi3.

He asked about Nash's numbers...being skewed b/c of D'Antoni, and was proved wrong b/c Nash still produced with Dallas.

You just focusing on TO's is flawed also.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

"are you learning disabled? i was responding to and_1's suggestion EG would trade gil for nash.

again, try reading and thinking before typing.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse "

You are clearly describing yourself.

EG probably would trade for Nash, but then it'd turn out to be Mark Price part deux, with Les BouleS luck.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-858270.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-858270.html

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 11:15 PM | Report abuse

"And Nash's assist to turnover ratio, which is the data point that 1 guards are graded on, show Nash's overwhelming edge over Gilby.

It's common knowledge, unless your handle is divi3."

Nash's ratio has barely scratched the top10 amongst guards over the past 5 seasons.

But you knew that I'm sure.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

"It's common knowledge, unless your handle is divi3."

Nash's ratio has barely scratched the top10 amongst guards over the past 5 seasons.

But you knew that I'm sure.

Posted by: divi3 | November 19, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse "

And how does Gilby's ratio compare to those guys?

Were any of those "top10 guards over 5 years" two time MVPs also?

Just curious.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

SPEAKING OF THE INFAMOUS MARK PRICE TRADE AND LES BOULES LUCK:


In late September of 1995, distinguished Washington Bullets GM, John Nash, took a risk and traded the 12th pick in the ‘96 draft to the Cleveland Cavaliers for an aging Mark Price. Someone needed to fill the hole left by a departed Scott Skiles and Nash didn’t feel that Mark’s brother, Brent Price, could adequately distribute the ball to the likes of Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, Rasheed Wallace, Ledell Eackles, Calbert Cheaney, Tim Legler, and Gheorghe Muresan.

Price, then 31, didn’t even make it to the beginning of the season before getting injured....

Back to that 12th pick in 96 … Cleveland used it to select overpaid bust, Vitaly Potapenko.

Who was taken 13th?

None other than the 2008 MVP, Kobe Bryant.

The likes of Peja Stojakovic (14), Steve Nash (15), Jermaine O’Neal (17), and Zydrunas Ilgauskas (20) followed. I just love hindsight….and coincidentally, Nash was forced to resign in April of ‘96.


http://www.truthaboutit.net/2009/05/for-wizardsbullets-fans-price-was-not.html

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 19, 2009 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Interesting post DCMAN. It's hindsight, but interesting hindsight. Man, you take that lineup we had there with everyone in their primes and you got a contender. Just goes to show how fragile the pieces of the puzzle to winning it all are. Well, guess we only have to look at the current roster.

Does anyone know if Muresan and Shaq were ever on the court together?

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 20, 2009 12:32 AM | Report abuse

"I wasn't stating facts, just an opinion."

You stated opinion that Miller could develop into a player to rival Bird or Nowitzki, based on what you (by your own admission) assumed was the fact that he was still in the early stages of his career. The actual (and easily verifiable) fact is that he's in his 10th NBA season, meaning that his developmental years are over, thus making your opinion utterly meritless because it is based on an assumption that is unarguably false.

But, of course, your tired shtick of over-the-top hyperbole pays no heed to something as prosaic as facts, does it?

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 20, 2009 1:15 AM | Report abuse

Not to mention, if MM were the second coming of LB or DN, I think he would have made more national news by now among a myriad of other things. Anyway, enough over the top hyperbole, he is what I thought he was. A nice roll player with a very nice shot and rebounding skills. The only thing that has surprised me somewhat is his passing and slightly less so his overall basketball IQ. You have a pretty decent team if MM is your 4th or 5th best player.

By the way, I love the "rivalry" debate between us and the Cavs. Rivalry means competition and in sports terms generally means regular games that mean more than most other games to the fans and players alike. Just bc one team has won three straight playoff series doesn't change the fact that it is a rivalry. Dallas vs Skins has had many winning streaks both directions, but even when one team is struggling vs the other, it is and will always be a rivalry. So, as long as LeBron is in Cleveland which may not be much longer, there will remain a rivalry bc the two teams do not like each other and the fans despise players on the opposing team.

Go Skins! Beat Dallas once and you can at least quell the revolt. Beat them twice and you might gain season ticket holders even in the most dire of times for the franchise...lol.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 20, 2009 4:13 AM | Report abuse

It felt good for the the Wiz to get a win but this team is only good for 35 to 40 wins in its current setup if everyone stay healthy. They are a 8th seed maybe. The team is get older with no youth coming behind because Flip never develop players and Ernie don't draft young. It's said seeing how other teams have past the Wiz while the Wiz have been in the lottery it seems like every year.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | November 20, 2009 6:43 AM | Report abuse

Just read through last night's posts and have only one hypothesis:

DCman and Kalo drink a lot by themselves while sitting at the computer. Which is probably good, because they are very angry drunks and I'd hate to see them treat real people the way they treat posters in here.

Both make sense and seem to be at least a little forgiving during daylight posts, but are vindictive and petty and start making less sense as the night goes on.

DC man couldn't keep his argument straight from one post to the next and imagined slights and kalo couldn't let go of someone saying he made a mistake.

I hope they intend to stay indoors.

Posted by: Blurred | November 20, 2009 7:17 AM | Report abuse

"I wasn't stating facts, just an opinion."

You stated opinion that Miller could develop into a player to rival Bird or Nowitzki, based on what you (by your own admission) assumed was the fact that he was still in the early stages of his career. The actual (and easily verifiable) fact is that he's in his 10th NBA season, meaning that his developmental years are over, thus making your opinion utterly meritless because it is based on an assumption that is unarguably false.

But, of course, your tired shtick of over-the-top hyperbole pays no heed to something as prosaic as facts, does it?

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 20, 2009 1:15 AM

Now that we have firmly established and I have admitted to the shortcomings of my over the top hyperbole there is still yet future matters to be determined in my assertions.

I said that Miller is like Dirk and Larry Bird good. I also said the he could be compared to Pippen and his game was like Magic except for not playing the Center, but he could play the 4,3,2, and the 1, even though he is not in the class of Majic.

If we compare Miller individually with those guys then yeah the comparisons fail, but my thinking is after watching Miller now, his play for the Wizards going forward will be enormously huge and in the vein of those players I've mentioned.

Hyperbole, yes, over the top, yes, but still yet to be determined, yes.

You, however based upon your factual analogy believe Miller cannot possibly play that well, I do, however.

Also, you also stated that Boykin would not make any difference to the success of the Wizards, you have been proven wrong so far.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know if Muresan and Shaq were ever on the court together?"

the only time I can remember DC beating a shaq led team was when the Bullets beat Orlando back at the Cap center, with Big Gheorghe manhandling Shaq. O'Neil got so frustrated with his inability to simply back Mhuresan down that he tried to start a fight.

Damn you Billy Crystal!

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

It felt good for the the Wiz to get a win but this team is only good for 35 to 40 wins in its current setup if everyone stay healthy. They are a 8th seed maybe. The team is get older with no youth coming behind because Flip never develop players and Ernie don't draft young. It's said seeing how other teams have past the Wiz while the Wiz have been in the lottery it seems like every year.

Flip doesn't develop players but he's 10 games into being the coach? The Wizards have been in the lottery every year? They were in the playoffs 4 years straight until last season. How do you not draft young? Do you watch basketball at all?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 20, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Larry Clinton, pippen was one of the greatest defenders in the history of the nba. Guy could check 1-4 and even do some works on 5s....i must not be watching the same Mike Miller you are!

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know if Muresan and Shaq were ever on the court together?"

the only time I can remember DC beating a shaq led team was when the Bullets beat Orlando back at the Cap center, with Big Gheorghe manhandling Shaq. O'Neil got so frustrated with his inability to simply back Mhuresan down that he tried to start a fight."

Damn you Billy Crystal!

My friend and I talk about this very thing ALL of the time. Big Gheorge was indeed the one center that Shaq never liked.

Why? Because he was bigger then Shaq. I remember that game very well divi. Shaq was flustered the whole time. It was great.

Then stinky Billy Crystal had to have him in a movie and jack his back up. :(

For those of you who are too young to remember, Gheorge could play and was a very good center. He also made his free throws!

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | November 20, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

"You have a pretty decent team if MM is your 4th or 5th best player."

What 3-4 players have played better on the Wiz than Miller this year? Through ten games Miller has been the best player by far and I don't see him dropping to fifth.
Believe what your eyes are telling you, not play based on years past.

Posted by: and_1 | November 20, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Was also happy to see Oberto fulfilling his intended role last night. You could sense the intangibles coming from the bench.

Post of the day. No contest.

Posted by: original_mark | November 20, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

"Through ten games Miller has been the best player by far"

we're in big trouble if our best player is going to be an 11/7 guy.

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Larry Clinton, pippen was one of the greatest defenders in the history of the nba. Guy could check 1-4 and even do some works on 5s....i must not be watching the same Mike Miller you are!

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 8:58 AM

I see your point, but check carefully what I am saying, for if MM continues what he is doing now and this Team continues to get better, it will be quite clear why I am making the comparisons.

Despite what factual analysis Kalo_rama wants to expouse.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

i'd say brendon has been our best player...of course we're also 3-7

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Was also happy to see Oberto fulfilling his intended role last night. You could sense the intangibles coming from the bench.

Post of the day. No contest.

Posted by: original_mark | November 20, 2009 9:09 AM

Glad to see someone else caught that argument about intangibles.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

we're in big trouble if our best player is going to be an 11/7 guy.

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:17 AM

Divi3, you know 11/7 isn't bad and you also know that his numbers will be much better than that.

Question for you though. Do you think that looking forward Miller plays a huge role in a successful Wizards season?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I didnt say 11/7 is bad, I said if that's the best we have then we are in trouble.

Miller will play a huge role in this team's sucess, and if things are going well he will be in 6th man contention again.

But let's not forget what happened the other night. Antawn stepped in and dropped 31 on the Cavs in a blowout, after not playing for weeks. 1st game back and suddenly Gil, Butler, and Miller are all getting wide open looks (which only Miller drains) etc etc.

Mr.Intangible gets a DNP and AB takes all of 1 shot...in a huge win.

AJ's the true PLAYA on this team right now and is going to have to carry a big load while we wait on Gil's legs to return.

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of intangibles:

Dejuan Blair had another huge game last night: 2 rebounds, 3 pts in over 8 minutes.

that gives him 10 boards and 13 pts in the past 4 games, I think

so he is reverting to the mean.

But I bet his intangibles are enormous.

Posted by: Blurred | November 20, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

we're in big trouble if our best player is going to be an 11/7 guy.

Posted by: divi3

We're in equally big trouble if our "best" player has FG percentage of 39%. That percentage goes for Gil and Caron in case you were wondering which player I'm referring to. Take your pick.
Our 11/7 guy is shooting 60% from the field, 57% 3-pt, and is 2d on the team in assists.

Posted by: and_1 | November 20, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"You have a pretty decent team if MM is your 4th or 5th best player."

What 3-4 players have played better on the Wiz than Miller this year? Through ten games Miller has been the best player by far and I don't see him dropping to fifth.
Believe what your eyes are telling you, not play based on years past.


Posted by: and_1 | November 20, 2009 9:08 AM

And_1,

I think you are seeing what I am seeing even though you put it differently.

The Wizards believe it or not is the best comibination of talent that Miller has been with his whole career.

Put that together with his obvious skill set and I and you agree also, that something special can, will, and is taking place.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

do you think Miller is going to shoot 60% and 57% for the year? You are in for a big disappointment if you do.

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

and like I said, our best player is AJ

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

This has got be the only place on earth that Miller is compared to Larry/Dirk/Pippen and Oberto is mentioned with Ben Wallace and Rodman.

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

do you think Miller is going to shoot 60% and 57% for the year? You are in for a big disappointment if you do.

Posted by: divi3

That's a different argument, correct?
I said through ten games Miller has been the best player and I don't envision him dropping to 5th best.
I happen to agree with you that when all is said and done Jamison is the best player on this team.

Posted by: and_1 | November 20, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

It felt good for the the Wiz to get a win but this team is only good for 35 to 40 wins in its current setup if everyone stay healthy. They are a 8th seed maybe. The team is get older with no youth coming behind because Flip never develop players and Ernie don't draft young. It's said seeing how other teams have past the Wiz while the Wiz have been in the lottery it seems like every year.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | November 20, 2009 6:43 AM | Report abuse

A couple of things here.

35-40 wins will not get an eigth seed in the East this year. The East is finally improving. A lot of young and athletic teams are on the come up. The Wiz if healthy, are much better than 35-40 wins.

No youth behind the starters? We have a PG, SG, SF, PF, and C all at age 24 or under. That's a lot of youth believe it or not. Which of these guys are in the future plans is a different question though.

The Wiz have been in the lottery once since the 03 season.

Posted by: VaWizard85 | November 20, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

"I said through ten games Miller has been the best player and I don't envision him dropping to 5th best."

I really like what I've seen from Haywood so will give him the slight nod as our 'mvp' through 10.

Miller is clearly better than Caron right now, and if CB doesnt start hitting his shots, Miller should play more minutes.

Hopefully Foye is back at 100% soon, I think he will end up contributing as much as Miller...and maybe Wilbon will write a column acknowledging he's a FOOL for crying over passing on Ricky Menudo

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

AJ's the true PLAYA on this team right now and is going to have to carry a big load while we wait on Gil's legs to return.

Posted by: divi3 | November 20, 2009 9:38 AM

Agreed, but I think you also agree that Miller makes AJ's job much more easier and vicerversa.

The dynamics of Mike Millers skill set to this team IMO is Dirk like, Bird like, Pippen like, and to a degree Majic like.

He is not as good as any one of them, but his skill set, his intangibles, will add the traits that those guys contributed to their Teams success for the Wizards.

I think my comparison dosen't go over well because those guys were the best on their Teams and some of the greatest in the NBA.

I'm not saying that Miller meets that criteria of best on the Team and one of the best in the NBA, but I am saying that his skill set compares to those guys and he is good enough to be hugely successful unlike he was before.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

O'Neil got so frustrated with his inability to simply back Mhuresan down that he tried to start a fight.


Posted by: divi3 |

Isn't this what Shaq does everytime he does not get his way?

Posted by: millineumman | November 20, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

One thing I noticed in the game was that the Cavs had much better ball movement in the first half, with crisper ball movement than the Wiz. They had a better awareness of where each other was. The Wiz tend to take a second or two before passing off, intending to make a move themselves before deciding they can't. While the Cavs intend to move the ball period. Second half not so much as was pointed out by Michael and other posters, as LeWhine took it upon himself to try to win.

Posted by: rickgonz | November 20, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

One last thing to be clear about Mike Miller. I am assesing from what I see of him now and what I think will happen this season.

My comparison, though you cannot exclude his past career for it does have a bearing, is plainly from here now and forward.

And Divi3, my good man, Oberto's case isn't like Miller. Miller has intangibles, Oberto just knows how to play the game.

You see Miller's case only so far, but I am taking it a bit more further. I hope I turn out to be right for if I am, the Wizards will indeed be challenging for the East crown THIS YEAR!

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Another observation: Gilbert is looking more like Antonio Daniels did, walking the ball up instead. Perhaps that's what he needs to avoid TOs, but he really needs to know what he wants to do as soon as he gets the ball in his hands and then run or pass quickly.

Posted by: rickgonz | November 20, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

"Not trying to speak negatively about anyone, but in previous years, I was playing like I had to make something happen. If it didn't happen in the first five minutes I felt like I had to do something or I might not play in the second half. That's a tough way to play. Now, it's a little bit different. I think Flip has confidence in me and I benefit from it." Haywood...

That statement says it all. This is something that I noticed for the longest time with EJ, but some kind of way others did not see it and they always thought Haywood was being a malcontent and not a team player.

Why EJ had to keep playing those dumb mind games I will never know. I am glad to see Haywood has a coach who is not into that kind of stuff and who gives minutes to the people who deserve it.

Posted by: BulletsFever | November 20, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

BTH looks like a totally different player than the guy EJ was "playing thos dumb mind games" with. he looks stronger, more explosive, more focused, and aggressive. He needs to get off of bagging on EJ and let some of his teamates know what he did to change the direction of his career Haywood wnet from sharing time with ET tha poet to being one of the most important all around contributors on the team. I'd rather hear him talk about what he did to get out of the doghouse than hear about why he felt he was in the doghouse.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | November 20, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

BulletsFever,

I knew this to be so also, and in spite of the fact that many still feel that Ernie is good coach, I felt that he had to be fired.

I used to try to find ways to email the Wizards years ago about Haywood and Ernie and Etan.

I knew that my humble opinion meant squat to them, but I had to voice my observations.

You see I have always known that Haywood was about Team play and winning, but Eddie used the things he wanted in a player against Haywood instead of being fair and trying to bring out the best in him.

If Etan had never went down for a whole year EJ would have never given Haywood the time he did give him to play.

That year he still only averaged a little more than 2Q's of play even with Etan out. He still found excuses not to play him for what should have been at least 3Q's of play.

I am beating a dead horse here, but I think Flip really wants to win it all and he understands fairness and Haywood and this Team can just go play some ball now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 20, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I don't know whether the Etan/Haywood competition was handled correctly but I do know that back then, Haywood seemed to go up weak or fade away too much. His touch was worse but that could have improved with more playing time. The year before last Haywood had an excellent year compared to previously, but in my opinion he was stronger. In my opinion, I saw nothing back then that justified Haywood getting 30 minutes a night. Etan was stronger than Haywood back then. They both were far from being starting caliber. To say that Eddie should have started one or the other fails to recognize that they both stunk. Is it a coincidence that Haywood played well when Etan went out with the heart problem or would Eddie have given Haywood more playing time as Haywood had clearly improve? We will never know that answer.

Posted by: G-Man11 | November 20, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the Muresan reminder. I do now vaguely remember that game.

MM is not the best player on the team even through 10 games. Haywood has been superb for us. Arenas leads the team in scoring although not at his usual pace or percentage and assists. Blatche has a higher PPG average etc etc.... So, yeah, my eyes are just fine. Don't know about yours however. The only thing MM has been the best at is shooting percentages and showing some toughness.

It's very easy to get fooled by a role player playing very well as our expectations are not as high. Hell, everyone is saying that MM should start over Butler, but as bad as Butler has played for his standards and our expectations he is still averaging more PPG than MM by 6 pts!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 20, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Like I said, you have a very decent team when MM is your 4/5th best player.

By the end of December, this team will be a few games over .500 and on pace to close to 50 wins. Health always being a huge caveat with this team.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 20, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

if scoring avg is the most important thing then butler is better. if taking good shots and setting your guys up for scores is important then miller is better.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 20, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

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