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Suns (5-1) at Wizards (2-4)

Wizards starters: Gilbert Arenas, Randy Foye, Caron Butler, Fabricio Oberto, Brendan Haywood

Suns: Steve Nash, Jason Richardson, Grant Hill, Amare Stoudemire, Channing Frye

Line: Suns by 2.

I'm still not sure who was responsible for breaking the fruit plate on Friday, but I can assure you that it wasn't Antawn Jamison -- or any other player. I asked Flip Saunders if it was him, but he just smiled and declined to say. I asked Randy Foye if it was Flip and he said, "If Flip didn't tell you, then I don't know."

Saunders decided to go with Foye at starting shooting guard with the hope that Foye can help get the team off to a good start offensively against the explosive Phoenix Suns, who lead the NBA in scoring at 111 points per game. Foye had 17 points and eight assists in his previous start against New Jersey. "The whole situation with Mike [Miller] being out, is to be prepared for anything," Foye said. "Coach, if he's going to start me, I'm going go out there and do my job - try to help the team get off to a good start. [bring some] energy, from the beginning."

Caron Butler has had back-to-back double doubles. After Butler had 24 points and 12 rebounds, Saunders was asked what he was pleased with the aggression he displayed. "I didn't like anything I saw Friday night -- in terms of anybody," he said. "I don't look at individuals. Statistics are very misleading. I've never seen even a bad team get shut out. Bad teams score, bad teams get rebounds. I look at how the team operates."

Saunders said that Gilbert Arenas will have to be more aggressive after he finished with a season-low 13 points against Indianapolis. With Saunders said Arenas will certainly have to look to score against the Suns and former MVP Steve Nash. "Sometimes the best way to go against an offensive player is to go at him at the other end. That's what you try to do," Saunders said. Arenas "has got the ball to make a decisions, but if he has open shots, he has to take those shots."

Andray Blatche had his worst game of the season against the Pacers with one point and three rebounds. He has scored just 18 points since getting a career-high 30 against New Jersey on Halloween. "His big thing is getting consistent. It's not something you turn on and off," Saunders said. On Friday, "he had no energy at all."

The Wizards have lost five games in a row against the Suns, including the past four games at Verizon Center. They have not won a home game against Phoenix since Jan. 15, 2005.

DeShawn Stevenson is two points away from career point No. 5,000.

The Wizards are hoping to avoid losing four consecutive games. The last time they lost that many in a row was March 17-23, when they lost five.

By Michael Lee  |  November 8, 2009; 12:37 PM ET
 
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Next: Suns 102, Wizards 90

Comments

So DSteve should get to 5,000 this week right?
If he can't make 3's, 2's or FTs then it's kind of hard to score.

Posted by: elfreako | November 8, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Painful. Just painful to watch. Good to great defense even against the Suns but missed open shots, missed layups by Arenas, missed foul shots. Same story. Caron sucks, Arenas not a superstar, and Blatche leading the team in scoring = loss.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone on this team make 2 foul shots in a row or consistently hit an open shot??? It's the offense thus far this season that has them 2-5. Certainly not the defense. Held Phoenix to 8 pts below avg and 47% from the field which is not horrible. Of course, we shot 39% from the field, 66% from the line, and 25% from 3. Just horrible. And, that's against the Suns vaunted defense. Wow!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Who knew that the weakest link when the season started would be Butler. Settling for jump shots, by far the worst starter on defense, lackadaisical, prone to turnovers, and completely inconsistent... Time to trade Butler for some prospects.

Posted by: awb9h | November 8, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand Flip's reluctance to play Gil off the ball more. It's not like the offense is humming along. If anybody speaks up in the locker room again, it better not be Caron. His defense is awful and on offense, he's turnover-prone and IMO selfish. Too many one-pass or no-pass posessions on offense spelled D-O-O-M today.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

possessions on offense...

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Another game where we have more turnovers than assists.

Anybody wondering why I keep saying Gilbert is a shooting guard and not a one. It dosen't matter if you list him as the point, but you better have somebody else that is capable of handling the point play with him on the court.

They list Tim Duncan as a power forward, but everyone knows he plays the center role for San Antonio.

List Gilbert at the one all you want, but to have him playing the one is just plain stubborn.

Foye should be handling the point play and hopefully Crit when he gets back so Gilbert can really do what he does best and that is score the ball.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 8, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't get what the strategy is on offense thus far. It's either an Arenas force or one pass and somebody else forces a shot with Blatche of all people the only one making them consistently. Arenas playing off the ball has nothing to do with what is wrong. He's been on the ball the entire time he's been on the team and they do have Foye do that on occasion with no better results.

What is starting to alarm me as far as the remainder of the season is concerned is Arenas is NOT the same player. He is not shooting like he did, he does not get the same separation, and he can't finish at the rim the same. Not good!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Three men standing around the three-point line watching Gil chuck up another shot. At least in Eddie Jordan's offense they ran around a lot. This team has a long way to go.

Posted by: mugsybol | November 8, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Another game where we have more turnovers than assists.

Anybody wondering why I keep saying Gilbert is a shooting guard and not a one. It dosen't matter if you list him as the point, but you better have somebody else that is capable of handling the point play with him on the court.

They list Tim Duncan as a power forward, but everyone knows he plays the center role for San Antonio.

List Gilbert at the one all you want, but to have him playing the one is just plain stubborn.

Foye should be handling the point play and hopefully Crit when he gets back so Gilbert can really do what he does best and that is score the ball.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

Agreed. Doesn't matter if they list him at the point, you can't change his instincts. When the game was on the line, he started jacking up shots with no attempt to initiate the offense.

Gil + Exclusive PG duites = Losing Formula.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

@Larry,

What you fail to realize is that Arenas has dominated the ball his entire career with the Wiz and we were one of the best offensive teams in the league before his surgeries. He doesn't look the same to me anymore. Is he hitting the wall after a hot start and getting readjusted to a long season and a new offense or is this who he is now. If this is it, it will be a long season and this core of players will never do much besides just make the playoffs. Were the first couple of games a mirage???

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Arenas playing off the ball has nothing to do with what is wrong. He's been on the ball the entire time he's been on the team and they do have Foye do that on occasion with no better results.

Posted by: rphilli721

Disagree. What Gil has done in the past is play on the ball some and off the ball some. That is a fact. This is a different offense in which, from what I can tell, he appears to on the ball 95% of the time. It...will...not...work.

To correct my previous post:

Gil + Exclusive PG Duties = Losing Formula.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

lmao...you can disagree all you want but Arenas was is and has always been somewhat of a ball hog. Remember Mr. Barkley and the TNT crew constantly making those sorts of comments about him. The problem is whether he is now a ball hog with diminished skills after 3 knee surgeries. Still too early for doom and gloom, but things are trending in the wrong direction that is for sure. Your supposed fix to have GA morph into a SG is laughable.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

His percentages and assists are actually the same or better than his career averages at this point. Kind of surprised by that. Looks like he is going to need Miller and Jamison.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

What is laughable is your apparent refusal to see that Gil is running an offense he has never run prior to this year and is stinking out loud at getting the offense going. This is not the Princeton offense.
At least if he plays off the ball more, someone else might get a chance to get the offense into some type of flow, which Gil clearly is not doing.
Q: What skills would Gil have to acquire in order to play some minutes at SG on offense? What would he have to "morph" into?

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Saying that he is running a different offense is not the point. Duh! Like many people in here that can't debate intelligently, you change the whole argument when it's not going your way. He was just as much of a ball hog in the Princeton as he is now. In fact, that whole offense revolved around either Arenas, Butler, or Jamison "hogging" the ball in isolation with an occasional backdoor cut or switch sides pass for a open look. This offense is supposed to be more about ball movement and shooting open shots in the flow including Arenas. Obviously, it's not there yet, but it's been 7 freaking games. Hard to get assists when the people getting passed the ball are not making the right play within the offense yet either.

GA would have to morph into a player that plays without the ball which he has never done. How that is so complicated for you to understand is beyond me? Yeah, he has played off of a Hughes in the past and even Foye now, but not consistently. Only as a change of pace different look kind of thing.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

What I don't understand is why we are not running basic plays with the injuries we have. For instance, why not pick and roll Arenas and Butler on one side of the floor with Foye and Blatche on the other side with Haywood going in for the rebound. But, unlike EJ, FS has a track record of success that says give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I get the feeling right now that FS infamous playbook is overly complicating things for the players we have available and nobody is playing on instinct yet offensively. So, why not simplify things until fully healthy and everyone is on the same page. Much like an NFL team starting a new quarterback or with a lot of injuries on offense, you go with what you can do with who you have playing.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I didn't watch the game, but plan on recording it tomorrow and watching it then.

From the box score, looks like the two loudmouths on the team (Gilby and Caron) both shot around 33% and were atrocious from 3. Foye also shot around 33%.

AB on the other hand shot 9-15 with 20 pts, 5 rebs, and 3 blocks.

BTH had a double double with 5 blocks.

Suns doubled Les BouleS assists with 30 total, although Les BouleS had more steals and blocks and Suns had more TO's. FT's were atrocious for both teams.

Les BouleS had fewer PF called against them, and went to the line 13 more times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now we can stop blaming the refs.

Ok, so who do the leaders blame now? Anybody have a mirror for them?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 8, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

HEY GILBERT LOL HEY FLIP GUESS WHAT. After your next game you have a chance to tie the Washington Redskins at 2 and 6.

Posted by: rnorris6 | November 8, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

rphilli721,

"What you fail to realize is that Arenas has dominated the ball his entire career with the Wiz and we were one of the best offensive teams in the league before his surgeries."

I posted the above because apparently you don't remember what you just wrote.

Without question, up until this season his whole career with the Wiz has been running the Princeton offense (which you referred to as "one of the best offensive teams in the league..."). Correct? Hence, my reference to this particular offense NOT being the Princeton offense. Do you see the error in logical thinking that YOU committed in comparing previous Wiz "best" offenses with Gil to this one?

"GA would have to morph into a player that plays without the ball which he has never done."

Gil HAS played off the ball in his career and for you to say he's "never" done it or would have to morph into something else in order to do it is beyond obtuse.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

@DCMANN,

I hope you recorded the game today bc recording it tomorrow will not help much.
But, for once, I agree with you. This game was lost by the continued shooting woes of Arenas and Butler. Blatche and Haywood both had nice games as well as Foye. Another very winnable game wasted. At least the effort was there. And, again, another nice defensive game. I think they kept the Suns off the scoreboard for 5/6 straight possessions in the 4th, but scored 5 pts in return. Missed layup, missed open shots, missed foul shots - frustrating to watch and I'm sure frustrating to play.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

GA would have to morph into a player that plays without the ball which he has never done. How that is so complicated for you to understand is beyond me? Yeah, he has played off of a Hughes in the past and even Foye now, but not consistently. Only as a change of pace different look kind of thing.

Posted by: rphilli721

Which is it? Gil's never done it or he has as a change of pace? The two appear to mutually exclusive.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

@Arm,

So what? We were one of the best offensive teams with GA having the ball in his hands in the Princeton offense as opposed to still having the ball in his hands in a different system. The debate was not about which offense was better, but whether GA has always been somewhat of a ball hog during his career. The answer is that GA has absolutely been a player that needs the ball to be successful. You can obfuscate all you want. And, it's WAY too early to say we can't be a good offensive team with this offensive system. It's not too early to say we are already a much better team defensively, which could lead to more wins once the offensive kinks get worked out and players return from injury.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I am not even commenting on your rebuttals as they are just getting dumb and dumber. Nice try though!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

I am not even commenting on your rebuttals as they are just getting dumb and dumber. Nice try though!

Posted by: rphilli721

Sucks when you have to eat the red herring of your own making, huh? Enjoy!!

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Actually I will say this. GA has been the facilitator on offense 90% of the time he has been on the court with the team. That comment was in anticipation of you saying "well, but he has played off of Hughes in the past" blah blah blah, which, of course, is much different than him jogging down the court consistently without the ball and running to spots on the court waiting to be fed the ball for an open shot. That's not who he is, how he plays, or how he will be successful again. That suggestion makes him nor this team better.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

I have eaten nothing, but I have destroyed your lack of a reasonable argument to smithereens. Nice try donkey. Your lack of debating skills and/or not knowing what you're talking about is quite amusing.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I have eaten nothing, but I have destroyed your lack of a reasonable argument to smithereens. Nice try donkey. Your lack of debating skills and/or not knowing what you're talking about is quite amusing.

Posted by: rphilli721

As are your forays into name-calling, double-talk and, most damning, DENIAL.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

This game was definitely ours. If only he had played NY and given Oberto more minutes, it wouldn't have been even close. We would have blown them out the building...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Double talk? lmao Whatever. Most damning is your lack of a cogent argument. Funny, no coach has ever done anything close to what you suggest, which would be to make GA a shooting guard. Therefore, you are a donkey with no insight or debating skills and instead resort to obfuscation and baiting.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand Flip's reluctance to play Gil off the ball more. It's not like the offense is humming along. If anybody speaks up in the locker room again, it better not be Caron. His defense is awful and on offense, he's turnover-prone and IMO selfish. Too many one-pass or no-pass posessions on offense spelled D-O-O-M today.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

_________________________________________
Now explain this to me, if Gil is a prettty weak defender agains point guards, how do u expect him to defend 2 guards like Kobe, Roy, Wade, Vince, Manu.....
Common sense people!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

"This game was lost by the continued shooting woes of Arenas and Butler. Blatche and Haywood both had nice games as well as Foye.""

Foye shot 36% from the field, 20% from 3pt range, and had 3 times as many turnovers as assists. That's a pretty charitable definition of a "nice game."

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Another game where we have more turnovers than assists.

Anybody wondering why I keep saying Gilbert is a shooting guard and not a one. It dosen't matter if you list him as the point, but you better have somebody else that is capable of handling the point play with him on the court.

They list Tim Duncan as a power forward, but everyone knows he plays the center role for San Antonio.

List Gilbert at the one all you want, but to have him playing the one is just plain stubborn.

Foye should be handling the point play and hopefully Crit when he gets back so Gilbert can really do what he does best and that is score the ball.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 8, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

___________________________________________
And how is Gilert gonna defend 2-guards if he can't even defend point guards??

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand Flip's reluctance to play Gil off the ball more. It's not like the offense is humming along. If anybody speaks up in the locker room again, it better not be Caron. His defense is awful and on offense, he's turnover-prone and IMO selfish. Too many one-pass or no-pass posessions on offense spelled D-O-O-M today.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

_________________________________________
Now explain this to me, if Gil is a prettty weak defender agains point guards, how do u expect him to defend 2 guards like Kobe, Roy, Wade, Vince, Manu.....
Common sense people!

------------------------------------------
I was referring to Gil playing SG on offense, which I have explicitly said on previous posts. If Foye and Arenas are playing in the backcourt together, as they are now, Arenas' defensive assignments wouldn't necessarily have to change, now would they? Think before you post!

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand Flip's reluctance to play Gil off the ball more. It's not like the offense is humming along. If anybody speaks up in the locker room again, it better not be Caron. His defense is awful and on offense, he's turnover-prone and IMO selfish. Too many one-pass or no-pass posessions on offense spelled D-O-O-M today.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

_________________________________________
Now explain this to me, if Gil is a prettty weak defender agains point guards, how do u expect him to defend 2 guards like Kobe, Roy, Wade, Vince, Manu.....
Common sense people!

------------------------------------------
I was referring to Gil playing SG on offense, which I have explicitly said on previous posts. If Foye and Arenas are playing in the backcourt together, as they are now, Arenas' defensive assignments wouldn't necessarily have to change, now would they? Think before you post!

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

___________________________________________
Smart man, Foye is 6'1 at best, how do you expect him to defend 2-guards????
They tried him as a 2-guard in Minny and it didn't work!!!!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Where is all this Critt love coming from?
I like his potential but I haven't seen anything that says that he is gonna help put us over the top. He is on par with M James but I think Flip is gonna trust MJ the vet more in crunch time. I hope that Critt comes on like gangbusters when he returns. But it wouldn't surprize me to see him wearing a suit & tie most games.

Posted by: VBFan | November 8, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Double talk? lmao Whatever. Most damning is your lack of a cogent argument. Funny, no coach has ever done anything close to what you suggest, which would be to make GA a shooting guard. Therefore, you are a donkey with no insight or debating skills and instead resort to obfuscation and baiting.

Posted by: rphilli721

Let's see: I asked two questions - What skills would Gil have to acquire in order to play some minutes at SG on offense? What would he have to "morph" into?

Your reply: He's never done it, but then again, maybe he has as a change of pace, and he'd have to morph into something.

That's not obfuscation or double-talk, is it? I consider that a non-answer. Sorry.

Regarding no coach ever turning him into a shooting guard, I said I'd like to see Gil get more minutes off the ball. I don't think turns him into a full-time shooting guard. Yet.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Yeah it might be a stretch to say he had a nice game, but he scored some points and played nice defense as the role player he is. GA and Butler simply have to play like all-stars for us to win at the moment and they are not. Not too hard to figure out, but if you must cherry pick and miss the overall point then fine.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Smart man, Foye is 6'1 at best, how do you expect him to defend 2-guards????
They tried him as a 2-guard in Minny and it didn't work!!!!


Posted by: Utilityman1

Foye and Arenas started in the backcourt today. Foye at the 2. Coach's Decision.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

wiz has a good defense when they start to use DM.CB is lost in todays game,he missed shoot after shoot,he is not staying with his man, he has the most turn overs.Arenas is strugling, he is unable to find a rhytm, i think he is too concerned about numbers.The ball is not moving,the fact that arenas is told to hold the ball for 90% of the time is a misconception to him, he is holding it for 22 seconds and send it to some body he think will do something or try to shoot it.I like what i see on AB,i think he is getting it this year, he is moving a lot but not yet respected to get the majority of the balls.
BH is very consistant.The team will be fine when AJ is back and the chemistory is cooked. I like the statment on the defensive end. By the end of nov. we will see back to back wins, i will see them to be above 500 by the second week of december, if theRE is no injury we are going to enjoy them.

Posted by: gtefferra | November 8, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

What's not to hard to figure out is the obvious bias in dumping the blame for the loss at the feet of Butler and Arenas while giving Foye, who played just as poorly, not only a pass, but a pat on the back. The point is that he's the third leading scorer on the team, plays about 30 mpg, and is frequently on the floor during crunch time. It's been clear from Day one that Flip is entrusting him with a lot of responsibility and expects a lot from him. To suggest (as you so clearly just did) that his struggles do not have significant impact on the team's losses is beyond nonsense.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Where is all this Critt love coming from?
I like his potential but I haven't seen anything that says that he is gonna help put us over the top. He is on par with M James but I think Flip is gonna trust MJ the vet more in crunch time. I hope that Critt comes on like gangbusters when he returns. But it wouldn't surprize me to see him wearing a suit & tie most games.

Posted by: VBFan | November 8, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

___________________________________________
It's like the love almost everyone on here had for Nick Young until they realized that dude wouldn't even make a D-League team. Now, it's Crit (now I'm not saying he is as bad) but when we start losing, people start coming up with saviors that are supposed to somehow rescue us.
It starts with "we need AJ", then when the losses keep piling up, it becomes "we need Crit", then "let's play Gil as a 2-guard" (one of my favorites), then "why hasn't Flip tried Mike James?", then "we need a shooting coach".... and I can go on and on and on. Until the Wizards reach 55 losses, that's when everyone start looking forward to next year. And the following year, the same thing happens, and that's how the cycle goes...
The Wizards have deeper problems and I will give you a few example of those (although not all):
-Gil making an average of $19 million a year and clogging up the cap (although he is decent, not a superstar, he doesn't deserve to have a current contract bigger than Wade, Duncan, Lebron, Carmelo....). Needless to say that he doesn't look like he gives a damn this year.
-AJ making $10 million/year (also clogging up the cap) and he can't defend anyone (yeah, he may score 20 ut he usually gives up alot more.
_Caron making $9 million a year to shoot contested jump shots right inside the 3 point line with plenty of time on the clock. And it doesn't look like he cares either.
_Believing and continuing to develop a lost cause like NY (I knew since he was a rookie that his head wasn't in the game, it's obvious when you jog to get back on defense). Needless to say that it doesn't look like he cares either and has recently been offered an extension.
_Thinking that Oberto was going to rescue the frontline. Did you all forget that a team like the Detroit, with one of the weakest frontlines in the league just paid him money to get rid of him.

And I can go on and on and on...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Smart man, Foye is 6'1 at best, how do you expect him to defend 2-guards????
They tried him as a 2-guard in Minny and it didn't work!!!!


Posted by: Utilityman1

Foye and Arenas started in the backcourt today. Foye at the 2. Coach's Decision.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

__________________________________________
And how did that work out???????????
Did I miss the game or did we actually lose today??
Once again, come on, common sense, you just defeated yourself with that argument.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

"Gil + Exclusive PG Duties = Losing Formula."

Again, no coach has ever tried your disaster of a formula. Gil + Play off the ball more = Not using your talent properly. Why? Bc he is a player that requires the ball to be successful. You're literally doing the other team a favor by taking the ball out of his hands and taking pressure off the defense. Now it would be nice if he passes the ball and it gets swung around and back to him for more open shots. But, the overall ball movement has been lacking thus far and that's not just a GA problem.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

None of which is to take away from Foye's overall solid play throughout the season. He just had a bad game. But to bring the hammer down on Arenas and Butler, while complimenting Foye on his "nice game" (which was anything but) is the dictionary definition of "cherry picking." For a guy who's throwing out insults to other people's "debating skills" it looks like you could use some remedial instruction in the basics of construction a sound argument.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Lets be real for a minute; the offensive continuity just isn't there after playing under the Princeton for the last few years it's going to take time for this team to weed itself of EJ's offensive philosophy.I didn't think it would be easy so lets see what comes about after fifteen or twenty games.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 8, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

And how did that work out???????????
Did I miss the game or did we actually lose today??
Once again, come on, common sense, you just defeated yourself with that argument.

Posted by: Utilityman1

Actually, I posted that Gil should get more minutes at SG on offense, which did not occur. Your logic is flawed. Again.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

"Lets be real for a minute; the offensive continuity just isn't there after playing under the Princeton for the last few years it's going to take time for this team to weed itself of EJ's offensive philosophy.I didn't think it would be easy so lets see what comes about after fifteen or twenty games."

Blashphemer! Rabble rousing troublemaker! Take your logic and common sense and go the hell back wherever it is you came from. We don't need none of that mess around here. This is kneejerk panic and blame-placing territory.

And don't you forget it!

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

I just want to see this team healthy for once. The injury bug is getting absurd. If it continues for another full season, you have to wonder if they have a bunch of injury prone core players that will never be healthy enough to be as good as they can be together. Actually, already wondering.

@Kal,

Give it up dude. I already ceded the point that he didn't have a "nice" game. But, in no way do I expect him to win a game the way Arenas and Butler should. Those two have to play good to great for us to win with AJ and MM out and they simply played ok. Not good enough.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

And how did that work out???????????
Did I miss the game or did we actually lose today??
Once again, come on, common sense, you just defeated yourself with that argument.

Posted by: Utilityman1

Actually, I posted that Gil should get more minutes at SG on offense, which did not occur. Your logic is flawed. Again.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse
__________________________________________
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Question for you, I remember you being one of NY lovers on here, how did that work out? Still hoping? ha ha ha ha ha.
As for Gil playing the 2 on offense and 6' tall Foye defending Kobe, Wade, Vince, Manu..., it's one of the funniest (I don't want to be mean and say dumbest) statements I have heard.
If that's your solution to our many prolems, then we are in for 5 very painful years (till Gil's contract expires).

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

"Lets be real for a minute; the offensive continuity just isn't there after playing under the Princeton for the last few years it's going to take time for this team to weed itself of EJ's offensive philosophy.I didn't think it would be easy so lets see what comes about after fifteen or twenty games."


Wow, some levity from Dargreg and something I've already stated and agree with wholeheartedly.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

"But, in no way do I expect him to win a game the way Arenas and Butler should. Those two have to play good to great for us to win with AJ and MM out and they simply played ok. Not good enough."

Last I checked, basketball was still a team sport and there were still at least 12 guys on every team. As the team's best, highest profile players, do Arenas and Butler carry a disproportionate share of the burden? Sure. But the whole point of having depth (which was the big buzz word coming into the season) is so that other guys can carry some of that responsibility. Foye is one of those guys. He has a lot of responsibility on this team and when he doesn't play well it unquestionably hurts the team's chances. To imply anything is is just rank stupidity.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

A much sounder analysis than suggesting moving GA to SG or starting NY or McGee or whatever other knee jerk reactions people have had.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

@Kal,

"He has a lot of responsibility on this team and when he doesn't play well it unquestionably hurts the team's chances. To imply anything is is just rank stupidity."

Yeah, ok. And I never did. So have fun arguing with the other voices in your head. I completely agree.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Nope. They're all equally stupid, really.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Do you even read your crap before you post it? Apparently not.

You said that the Wiz lost the game because Arenas and Butler played poorly and that you didn't expect Foye to win games. That pretty clearly implies that you don't think his play has the capacity to be the deciding factor in whether they win or lose.

Which is crap.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 8, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Question for you, I remember you being one of NY lovers on here, how did that work out? Still hoping? ha ha ha ha ha.
As for Gil playing the 2 on offense and 6' tall Foye defending Kobe, Wade, Vince, Manu..., it's one of the funniest (I don't want to be mean and say dumbest) statements I have heard.
If that's your solution to our many prolems, then we are in for 5 very painful years (till Gil's contract expires).

Posted by: Utilityman1

You've clearly confused me with somebody else. I've never been a big Nick fan.

With regard to it being funny (or dumb) to start Gil and Foye in the backcourt, it actually happened today and it will probably occur again. Most have posted that the defense as a whole wasn't too bad today. The OFFENSE has been singled out as the problem.
Utilityman1, I don't consider you to be mean.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

"Do you even read your crap before you post it? Apparently not.

You said that the Wiz lost the game because Arenas and Butler played poorly and that you didn't expect Foye to win games. That pretty clearly implies that you don't think his play has the capacity to be the deciding factor in whether they win or lose.

Which is crap."

No. You're spouting crap. Simply stating the obvious that more responsibility falls on Arenas and Butler than Foye to win games as you have stated yourself or anyone with 2 brain cells knows. Now, does Foye have impact on the games, sure. Duh! Did I cede the point that he had a "nice" game. Yes. So, shut up already. I agree. Like I said, have fun arguing with the voices in your head bc they seem to be acting up.

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

You've clearly confused me with somebody else. I've never been a big Nick fan.

With regard to it being funny (or dumb) to start Gil and Foye in the backcourt, it actually happened today and it will probably occur again. Most have posted that the defense as a whole wasn't too bad today. The OFFENSE has been singled out as the problem.
Utilityman1, I don't consider you to be mean.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse
_________________________________________
Yeah, I am sure that it will be tried again but I am deeply questioning its success. It is my opinion (and you have every right to disagree) that you can hardly ever have a 6' tall player defend 2-guards in this league. It hasn't even worked for Iverson, who is alot more talented than Foye.
And my other point was that we need to stop trying to come up with "rescue" solutions while the Wiz's problems are much deeper than strategic (read my aforementioned post, I brought up some examples).

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

What is starting to alarm me as far as the remainder of the season is concerned is Arenas is NOT the same player. He is not shooting like he did, he does not get the same separation, and he can't finish at the rim the same. Not good!

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 3:51 PM

Had to go away but I see I missed a lot. In the Princeton Offense the point guard is on the sideline calling in every play like EJ did.

Pure point play is not required in the Princeton offense because it is an Offense that overcomes the talents of a superior Team by a lesser one.

Point guard play is not as important as it is in a traditional offense. Why do you think that Gilbert was rated as a shooting guard in the Princeton Offense and not a point guard. Because even though we said he was the point, he actually played as a two, which by the way is his niche.

And what you are seeing now in Gilbert, Rphilli721, is a player really trying to play a traditional point guard role which he is unsuited for.

Gilbert is a two guard and he has been one of the best in the League.

It dosen't matter who he has to guard especially if the point guard is a talented 6'5" Javaris Crit who can handle the ball for the Team.

It is just that simple.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 8, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Had to go away but I see I missed a lot. In the Princeton Offense the point guard is on the sideline calling in every play like EJ did.

Pure point play is not required in the Princeton offense because it is an Offense that overcomes the talents of a superior Team by a lesser one.

Point guard play is not as important as it is in a traditional offense. Why do you think that Gilbert was rated as a shooting guard in the Princeton Offense and not a point guard. Because even though we said he was the point, he actually played as a two, which by the way is his niche.

And what you are seeing now in Gilbert, Rphilli721, is a player really trying to play a traditional point guard role which he is unsuited for.

Gilbert is a two guard and he has been one of the best in the League.

It dosen't matter who he has to guard especially if the point guard is a talented 6'5" Javaris Crit who can handle the ball for the Team.

It is just that simple.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 8, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

__________________________________________
Yeah, it's that simple. Let's do that and watch us win the next 50 games.
90% of posts I read on here lack common sense.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | November 8, 2009 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Beep Beep.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 8, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

I am with you Utility. But, what can you say. Apparently GA played shooting guard for EJ. LMAO

Posted by: rphilli721 | November 8, 2009 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, it's that simple. Let's do that and watch us win the next 50 games.
90% of posts I read on here lack common sense.

Posted by: Utilityman1

Are you suggesting that if the situation remains status quo the Wiz will win the next 50 games?

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

I am with you Utility. But, what can you say. Apparently GA played shooting guard for EJ. LMAO

---------------------------------------

You already admitted that earlier. Or did you?

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Coaches are always talking about coaching the team you have, not the team you want. In this case, Foye is the best option to start with Gil among the healthy, able-bodied guards. He tried NY and it did not result in any appreciable success. Should Flip just give up until Miller gets back?

Posted by: ArmChairQB | November 8, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

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