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Morning brew

Happy Monday, everyone. The Wizards start a four-game Western Conference Monday night at Staples Center with a game against the Clippers, who lost to the Spurs Sunday. Michael Lee will be on hand for the late-night (for us) action all this week as the Wizards make their way through Sacramento (Wednesday), Golden State (Friday) and Phoenix (Saturday).

Gene Wang, filling in for Mr. Lee, follows up on Saturday night's maddening 114-113 loss to the Pacers in Monday's Post. Mike Jones of the Washington Times writes about Gilbert Arenas's woes at the line.

Over on Bullets Forever, Jake the Snake discusses Agent Zero Swagger in the wake of the Indiana loss. Truth About It reflects on how the shoe appears to be on the other foot when it comes to Arenas's lack of clutchness lately.

Elsewhere, it's a case of out with the old: Brendan Haywood says he is retiring from blogging.

And in with the new: JaVale McGee is launching one.

Highlights from Saturday's game, courtesy of NBA.com, below:

Around the league ...

Five games on the schedule Sunday night, including a scoring duel between the Cavs' LeBron James and the Thunder's Kevin Durant. LeBron won the duel (he scored a season-high 44 points to Durant's 29) and the game (Cavs won 102-89).

That, and more action in NBA.com's Daily Zap:

By Ed Guzman  |  December 14, 2009; 8:50 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  | Tags: Washington Wizards; NBA; Gilbert Arenas; Antawn Jamison; Flip Saunders  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Barkley, C-Webb kill the Wizards
Next: Wizards (7-14) at Clippers (9-13)

Comments

Welcome Gene.

Posted by: closg | December 14, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Arenas and the Wizards headed to Los Angeles on Sunday to kick off a four-game road trip, and the guard said although challenging, the time away may be helpful.
"I think the West Coast is going to be good for me," Arenas said. "Get away from the pressure of this building, the pressure of the fans. Just let me breathe a little bit."

Detroit's building was too cold and the phone booth is too pressurized. What??

Posted by: tgif11 | December 14, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"I think the West Coast is going to be good for me," Arenas said. "Get away from the pressure of this building, the pressure of the fans.

Gil you didn't have a problem taking 111 million but it's too much pressure playing like a guy who deserves it?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Gil's a nutcase. No one minds a kook when he gets it done on the floor.

But when he ain't performing, everyone is on his case.

I am waiting for him to talk about how aliens stole his quickness so thweir spaceship could escape the earth's gravitational pull..

Posted by: Blurred | December 14, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Guy is feeling the pressure of the big contract while coming off a 2yr layoff and 3 knee surgeries. Any player would feel the same given the last 2 games, he's just admitting it.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Problem is, I don't know what sort of the changes the team could make at this point in the season except to work hard and put in extra effort. The NBA regular season schedule doesn't permit much in the way of practice and so it's difficult to make a lot of alterations. Seems to me the team is committed to a course and has to stay with it, for better or worse.

The rants and raves we read here and in the media aren't of much help to a struggling player. Play defense, hit your free throws, don't take stupid shots -- it's all true, but then, the team already knows it.

I was interested in Kalorama's comment that the shift in ownership might actually save Ernie Grunfeld's job. Something I hadn't considered. That's good from Ernie's standpoint, because it doesn't look like the team is going to save his job.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 14, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

About the rotations: I suspect if Flip had his druthers, he'd play an eight-man squad of Arenas, Butler, Jamison, Haywood, Boykins, Oberto, Miller, and Blatche in most games. And he'd use Stevenson, Foye, Young, and McGee as situational replacements depending on the opponent or because of injury. I can't imagine he'd want to cycle players in and out too often because then they don't learn to mesh.

If the team doesn't win, we tend to assume that's because there should be changes in the rotation. I'm thinking maybe with a club like this, the fewer changes, the better.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 14, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Guy is feeling the pressure of the big contract while coming off a 2yr layoff and 3 knee surgeries. Any player would feel the same given the last 2 games, he's just admitting it.

Yeah that's honest. After saying the free throws is a mental thing...he's admitting the pressure is getting to him.

The Detroit thing is understandable...I remember he was on the bench with the sleeve off and Cassell and someone else was around him and he was like rubbing his knee. Weak joints and cold isn't good. It just sounded dumb as hell to say the building was cold. LOL

He was playing decent, had the calf injury and played worse (no lift, quickness) he's looking better. When is the last time we had a guard capable of putting up a triple-double in the last couple years?

I didn't get to see the game, but that is definitely a disappointing loss. To shoot that well, hold them to 42% or whatever, I'm not sure what the turnover situation was but they HAVE TO MAKE FREE THROWS.

The pattern I'm noticing is weak 2nd quarters. Maybe a different substitution pattern where the starters are in more in the 2nd quarter? It seems that they play horrible in the 2nd and play great in the 3rd quarter.

2 games on ESPN this week....cool.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

He's leaned way too much on Boykins which is pretty pathetic imho, for a coach I assumed was legit given his resume.

and yeah, i'm nobody and dont know shi*

but Flip has been a big disappointment to me from a rotational perspective AND with in-game decisions.

any fool knows that with .5secs on the clock you have Javale and his 23ft wingspan guarding the inbound, Haywood guarding the basket.

But we had mcgee on the bench and Stevenson guarding a 6'10" player directly in front of the rim.

horrible coaching right there, missed FTs or no.

and NY has got to get more mins, he's playing well

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Samson151

I don't know what sort of the changes the team could make at this point in the season except to work hard and put in extra effort.

These guys aren't willing to work hard or put in extra effort or they would be willing to play "D".

The rants and raves we read here and in the media aren't of much help to a struggling player.

Any player who makes superstar money shouldn't be paying attention to us or what the media has to say. Being a winner comes from within and these players don't have it in them.

The shift in ownership might actually save Ernie Grunfeld's job.

Hopefully the new owner has higher aspirations than Abe had and realizes Ernie has not been able to get the job done and brings in his own GM.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Guy is feeling the pressure of the big contract while coming off a 2yr layoff and 3 knee surgeries. Any player would feel the same given the last 2 games, he's just admitting it.

Yeah that's honest. After saying the free throws is a mental thing...he's admitting the pressure is getting to him.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

divi3 and SDMDTSU,

How do you explain the missed free throws against Clev in the playoffs?

Face the facts the guy chokes, isn't willing to play "D" and isn't worth the money Ernie paid him.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

'Face the facts the guy chokes, isn't willing to play "D" and isn't worth the money Ernie paid him.

Posted by: bulletsfan78'

yes, we've seen you post that at least 1200x now.

Face it, he's our franchise player and if you disdain him so much...not much reason for you to tune in over the next several years

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I counted over 50 posts from DCMAN on the "Barkley, CWebb Kill the Wizards" post. Wow, you are the worst kind of loser there is: pathetic, annoying, and in your face. God help America if you ever become anything more than a whiney little b!tch jerking his little weenus to Wizards Insider.

Posted by: dfresh58 | December 14, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

and NY has got to get more mins, he's playing well

The thing is we never know what's going on from the inside. Like when Nick couldn't get off the bench it's because we found out he couldn't remember the plays later. We just never know.

Any player who makes superstar money shouldn't be paying attention to us or what the media has to say. Being a winner comes from within and these players don't have it in them.

That's just not realistic to think they don't play attention to what people say. Do you remember Kobe refusing to shoot in Game 7 of a playoff game because people said he shot too much? They're human. They hear it.

How do you explain the missed free throws against Clev in the playoffs?

He choked. How do you explain the 30 footer to force overtime and the numerous game winners? You make some and you miss some. It's basketball. Mentally he's not there yet. He's still thinking but he's looking better.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

"If the team doesn't win, we tend to assume that's because there should be changes in the rotation. I'm thinking maybe with a club like this, the fewer changes, the better."

Yep. When things aren't working, fans always want to change things. But different doesn't automatically mean better. Really, looking at this roster, what changes can he make that will significantly increase the chances of success? Is there some unused, undiscovered secret weapon on the bench? I really don't think so.

"He's leaned way too much on Boykins which is pretty pathetic imho, for a coach I assumed was legit given his resume."

And why, exactly, is it "pathetic" for a coach to lean on a player who, more often than not, has delivered when called upon? Would it be nice if the highly paid stars were getting it done in the clutch? Sure. But too often they aren't. So Saunders is going with the guy who has. Isn't this the exact same thing that people delighted in ripping Jordan for (supposedly) not doing? Can't please some people, I guess.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

I agree with you about Young. I'd like to see Flip give him some quality minutes early in the game to see what he's got. He's from the LA area and will be playing in front of family and friends so I'd be surprised to see him play poorly. Of course, it could go the other way with him playing out of control, but I doubt it.

Posted by: tgif11 | December 14, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

because i'm looking to develop a team and rotations that work every night, not rely on off-balance miracles from the 5'8" guy who was in italy 3 weeks ago.

You dont build a winner by trying to win the game in random fashion every night.

and to flip's credit imo, that's basically what he's been saying re: forcing the (supposed) Big3 to get it done.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Gil has come thru in the clutch before, on numerous occasions. Yes he blew it against Cleveland, but don't try to make it seem like he is one of those players who don't want to take the shot. Don't make it seem like you don't want him to take the clutch shot on the current Wizards. It only appears that certain people are not really fans of the team becuase they cheer for failure.

I want Gil to succeed because guess what, we as wizard fans are stuck with him. My wish is for him to regain his swag. Before Gil, the whole team had no swag at all. When had they last made the playoffs, under Chris Webber? Before that, Jeff Malone? Before that, Wes and Elvin? There were a lot of dark years before Gil.

And to be honest, if Gil is quirky and has issues, what does that make people like DC-Man and those people who are obsessed with Gil?

Posted by: G-Man11 | December 14, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"because i'm looking to develop a team and rotations that work every night, not rely on off-balance miracles from the 5'8" guy who was in italy 3 weeks ago."

Meanwhile Flip Saunder (y'know, the actual coach of the team) is looking to win games. Oddly enough, he seems to believe that the best way to do that is to play a guy who's proven likely to produce results.

"You dont build a winner by trying to win the game in random fashion every night."

You build a winner by winning games. There's nothing "random" about it. Boykins has earned his PT by producing when given the chance. "Random" would be nailing him to the bench and giving his minutes to guys who've proven nothing, in the speculative hope that they might.

Is Boykins a long-term answer to the team's problems? No, but they aren't in a position where "long-term" is something they can afford to be focusing on. They need to win games, any way, any how.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"They need to win games, any way, any how."

and just where does that leave you? maybe flirting with the 7th seed while having established just about nothing?

Make Earl your go-to guy until when? He doesnt produce? So you let him lose just as many as he won? Then where are you? Still wondering about Gil?

#1 priority for the franchise is getting Gil back on track by whatever means necessary. Having Boykins dominate the ball for a few random wins in which he plays well above his career production doesnt help us in the long run imo.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Last I checked the new boss isn't on board yet. So references to the new boss dosen't help the situation now.

In the past I have blogged about organizational responsibility, tradition, and professionalism being very important. The Ownership, the Coach, the GM, are the glue of your organization.

It's the glue that once the players are brought in that determines success.

A successful organization may not just be measured by winning a Championship. But in sports, in a lot of cases it is the only measure.

Now, I am no fool, for the luck of aquiring a great player or two might be the biggest reason for success of the organization.

When Flip Saunders was hired I thought, and the verdict is still out, that he would provide organizational direction that would make this Team of players successful.

While we might say that Flip is capable, it does not appear that his success level is on par at this point.

These players should be performing better, I think we can all agree, so why aren't they?

I would answer that both the players and the organization bear responsibility. And lets not forget injury, but all teams have that phenomenon.

But, with that being said, I see an organizational weakness in this Team.

Questions:

Would most good org's find ways to use McGee and Blatche more?

Would most good org's reward NY for showing that he also deserves more PT than given?

Would most good org's handle Butler differently? Would they experiment with Jamison at the three?

I think you get my drift. The questions are endless.

But on top of it all there is still a lack of accountability that still allows the players to accept failure as OK.

And it is a double whammy when only the young players are only made accountable for mistakes or failure.

There must be an organizational toughness applied to all the players to perform well.

We have too many, way too many instances of players performing badly at things they have proven they can do well at.

If Flip does not tighten th slack rope he has given his supposedly better players, don't look for improvement to start occuring with this Team.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

It is all about performance. Performing badly is not acceptable. I don't see that the players understand that bad performance is not acceptable.

All good players will miss a free throw. But all good players will not continually miss freethrows in critical points in a game.

Hitting a crucial free throw when the game is on the line says a lot about your desire to win.

Karl Malone was once a terrible free throw shooter, but he changed into a very good free throw shooter and never regressed, BTH.

Dennis Rodman was a terrible free throw shooter, but if you fouled him with the game on the line, gues what, you lost.

The accountability for winning is not being slapped hard enough across these players arses.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 14, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

But on top of it all there is still a lack of accountability that still allows the players to accept failure as OK.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD.

The Wizards were so bad for so long under ABE's ownership, some fans are happy just to make the playoffs and the ownership rewarded those players for doing so.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78, what would you have said if the Wizards had not re-signed Gil to that contract?

Posted by: G-Man11 | December 14, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I am a fan that wants them to win a championship. Just because somebody's opinion may be different than yours does not mean they don't want the team to win. However it does seem that some so-called wizards fans around here get their kicks by it's failures.

Posted by: G-Man11 | December 14, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Javale must get more playing time.
Let him make some mistakes.
He seems smart enuff to learn.
I remember Joakim Noah's rookie year, he looked a lot worse in some games I watched than JM has. But they let him play thru it and progress.
Now he is averaging double doubles.
I think if JM is given the opportunity he could be a dominant player.


Posted by: VBFan | December 14, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I also vote for more time for Nick Young. I realize it's counterintuitive, but there is some fairly strong statistical evidence building that Young actual plays good defense.

From 82games.com, here is the Wizards offensive and defensive efficiency (points per 48 minutes) depending on who was on the floor last year:

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809WAS1.HTM

So the Wizards only gave up 99.4 points per 48 minutes while Young was on the floor. Compare that e.g. to 105.1 for Butler and 104.4 for Jamison.

Well, last year was a weird year and it was hard to tell whether winning as many games as possible was that much of a priority as the season wore on, so maybe you'd want to dismiss those numbers. This year's numbers tell the same story, though.

This season, 82 games is showing points per possession, a slightly different number which controls for pace:

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910WAS1.HTM

So the Wizards are only giving up 1.01 points per possession with Young on the floor, vs. 1.08 points per possession for Butler and 1.12 points per possession for Jamison and Arenas.

I realize Young still has a lot to learn and seems to lose focus at times. Those stats are pretty compelling, though. It seems that his mistakes on D are easily outweighed by the other stuff he accomplishes.

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse


The Wizards are not a great team now and won't be anytime soon, in my opinion. That said, the Clips are playing the second half of a back to back and are in a downward spiral playing miserable basketball (I know. What's new.). So my guess is we'll know by the end of the first half of tonight's game if the Wiz (this includes Flip) learned anything from the past two games.

Posted by: and_1 | December 14, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

is it possible that arenas has lost a lot of height off his jump? he barely gets up in the air on his drives.

then again, maybe he's always been like that? did he dunk a few years ago?

Posted by: stevie2 | December 14, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

"Having Boykins dominate the ball for a few random wins in which he plays well above his career production doesnt help us in the long run imo."

And, again (since you clearly missed it the first time): The "long run" is not a priority for this team right now. The "long run" is for teams that (A) are rebuilding towards the future and therefore can afford to look past the present or (B) can pretty much take getting into the playoffs as a given and need to be more concerned about preparing themselves for what happens once they get there. The Wizards are neither of those kinds of team.

And there is no such f*@king thing as a "random" win, especially for a team that's only won 7 games all season. Every win counts the same in the standings, no matter how you get it. (And even if there were such a thing, I'm pretty sure the Wizards would love to get a few "random" wins right about now.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm with VBfan on this. Especially since Haywood has proven over the past 8 years that he can't be counted on to make a difference game in amd game out.

You have a choice of haywood getting 8 boards and missing the put backs and just generally getting beat - or - Javale getting better each game and making some stupid mistakes and then flushing the putbacks.

Right now, Haywood is better than Javale. But haywood isn't getting any better and Javale could and probably would.

Posted by: Blurred | December 14, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

That said, the Clips are playing the second half of a back to back and are in a downward spiral playing miserable basketball
Posted by: and_1 |

This is not a good thing for the WIzzies.

Posted by: VBFan | December 14, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

stevie2,

There's no question that Arenas doesn't have the same lift as he did before the surgery. But since he has never been a high-flyer a la Dwayne Wade, that really shouldn't have a major negative effect on his game.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"Those stats are pretty compelling, though. "

No, they're really not.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

That said, the Clips are playing the second half of a back to back and are in a downward spiral playing miserable basketball
Posted by: and_1 |

This is not a good thing for the WIzzies.

Posted by: VBFan

Got a little crazy there, didn't I?

Posted by: and_1 | December 14, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Hitting a crucial free throw when the game is on the line says a lot about your desire to win.

So Gilbert missed free throws because he wants to lose? Or he doesn't care if he wins?

So the game winners were just because? Oh I get it...because he got a contract it doesn't matter anymore.

Okay.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

No, they're really not.

Thank you for sharing your opinion without providing any supporting argumentation.

A lot of very successful NBA organizations (e.g., Dallas, Houston, Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio and Portland) look at these types of plus/minus stats.

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Teams look at all kinds of things, but they don't base their rotations and PT allotments on them. If Glen Davis had a higher +/- than Garnett, do you really think Doc would bench Garnett in favor of Davis? Of course not.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and you're welcome.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78, what would you have said if the Wizards had not re-signed Gil to that contract?

Posted by: G-Man11 | December 14, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse


G-Man11,

I said at the time they shouldn't have resigned him and ask divi3, I have always stated that Gil is nothing but a poor mans AI.

Gil is a shooting guard in a point guards body and in the NBA that does not win a team championships.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"Gil is a shooting guard in a point guards body and in the NBA that does not win a team championships."

Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker would disagree.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

So the Wizards are only giving up 1.01 points per possession with Young on the floor, vs. 1.08 points per possession for Butler and 1.12 points per possession for Jamison and Arenas.

Once again statistical analysis apparently doesn't mean anything. When you say the Wizards have the 7th best defensive FG%...noone thinks they play good defense.

82games stuff is cool...but it also showed that Jamison played above average defense. I posted that a couple weeks ago.

I realize Young still has a lot to learn and seems to lose focus at times. Those stats are pretty compelling, though. It seems that his mistakes on D are easily outweighed by the other stuff he accomplishes.

Does 82games have a stat for forgotten plays? That's completely unacceptable.


Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Thank you for sharing your opinion without providing any supporting argumentation.

A lot of very successful NBA organizations (e.g., Dallas, Houston, Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio and Portland) look at these types of plus/minus stats.

Posted by: joe_sill


I think coaches do look at lineup combinations and try to figure which ones are most effective. Even Flip noted a few games ago that Young was surprisingly effective on defense, but I'm most interested in how Nick compares to Stevenson. Flip has gone back to DeShawn for some reason and we know it's not because of his scoring prowess.

Posted by: and_1 | December 14, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Does 82games have a stat for forgotten plays? That's completely unacceptable.


Posted by: SDMDTSU

I tried to be a little more tactful, but WTH! lol

Posted by: and_1 | December 14, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Nick is showing real effort on defense and making some plays, add that to him being a real threat to score and I dont see why DeBeard is back in the lineup.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

NY and Gil showed some flashes of a nice 2man, midrange game the other night. Very tough matchup with both of them being able to create their own 12ft shot pretty easily

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker would disagree.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Kal,

Parker was a point guard in college and is still a point guard.

http://www.interbasket.net/players/tonyparker.htm

Jason Williams was the heat's point guard and Wade played the 2 spot when the heat won a championship.

So, why would either of them disagree?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

"There's no question that Arenas doesn't have the same lift as he did before the surgery. But since he has never been a high-flyer a la Dwayne Wade, that really shouldn't have a major negative effect on his game."

Wrong, obviously you've never played before. Your lift is one of the most important thing in basketball. You need it in your jump shot. Without it your shot will always be off. And you certainly need it when driving to the basket to either out jump your defender or to still manage and have body control even if you get bumped by a player. That is one of Arenas' strenght before the surgery.

Posted by: Dave381 | December 14, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Dave381

Everyone on here knows Kal has never laced them up.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Wade IS a SG in a PG body.

He was originally a PG that they moved to SG.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

said at the time they shouldn't have resigned him.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

You would have been in the minority.

Do you think Abe would have caught Holy-Hell if he didn't resign Gil? The only thing that gets criticized around here more than Gil was Abe. You damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario. Then the team would have to deal with the mentality of one that doesn't take care of their own. I didn't agree with a lot of things Abe did in regards to personnel, but resigning Gil was not one. And don't fool yourself, the best this current roster can do is higher if Gil can play his game. Gil is the key. They might not win the championship with Gil swagging this year, but they will not go as far if he isn't and everybody else is.

Posted by: G-Man11 | December 14, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"Wrong, obviously you've never played before. "

The only thing that's obvious is that (as usual) in your rush to get a shot off you responded without actually bothering to really read what you're "responding" to.

The original question asked specifically about Arenas's lift on his drives, not his jump shot. Two different things. He can't get up as high around the rim as he used to, but that's not a big deal because (A) he rarely dunked and scored mostly below the rim to begin with and (B) finishing around the rim is more about angles than explosion (as both Steve Nash and Tony Parker can attest to). Early on, Arenas himself was quoted as saying it shouldn't really be an issue. I guess he's "obviously you've never played before" either, huh?

"Wade was never converted from SG to PG like Gil"

Not sure what you thought those links would prove, but they don't prove anything. The overriding question concerning Wade coming into the draft was whether he could play the PG slot because the conventional wisdom said he was too small to play SG in the NBA, so they thought he needed to play PG to be successful (which is the definition of a "SG in a PG's body"). Moreover, Wade did, in fact, play a lot of PG during his rookie season in Miami (and, in fact, still does to this day), but SG remains his primary (and best) position, despite being relatively undersized for it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Teams look at all kinds of things, but they don't base their rotations and PT allotments on them

Here's a story about how the Warriors started playing Brian Cardinal more after they looked at his +/- on 82games.com:

http://www.sfweekly.com/2004-02-11/news/he-stats-he-scores/3
http://www.sfweekly.com/2004-02-11/news/he-stats-he-scores/4

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Here's a TrueHoop piece about how the Mavericks made decisions about who to play in the playoffs based on past plus/minus numbers for certain matchups:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/7009/wayne-winston-mark-cuban-s-stats-expert-isn-t-bashful

More from Mark Cuban about their plus/minus system:

http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"Parker was a point guard in college and is still a point guard.

Parker never played college ball, genius. If you're going to post links that purport to prove your "point" it might be a good idea to at least look at them first. (Of course, anyone who actually watches NBA games instead of getting all their intell from box scores would already know that Parker didn't play college ball.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Here's a piece about how the Rockets traded for Battier largely based on plus/minus stats.

http://www.houstonpress.com/2007-11-01/news/rocket-science/full

I realize some of these pieces don't explicitly say that these stats influence playing time decisions, but I don't know why you would think they would influence trades and not playing time.

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"Here's a story about how the Warriors started playing Brian Cardinal more after they looked at his +/- on 82games.com:"

How'd that work out for them?

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know why you would think they would influence trades and not playing time."

When and where did I say I thought they influnced trades? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

When and where did I say I thought they influnced trades? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

Now I'm not following you. Are you conceding that these stats do indeed influence trades but maintaining that they do not influence playing time? Or are you arguing that they influence neither trades nor playing time?

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

"The original question asked specifically about Arenas's lift on his drives, not his jump shot."

And it is pretty obvious who is not reading. I mentioned in my post why a player's lift is important in jump shot AND driving to the basket.

Posted by: Dave381 | December 14, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse


I'll try again:

"When and where did I say I thought they influenced trades? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?"

You claimed I said something I know I didn't. Either provide evidence that I did or drop this whole line of nonsense.

You can post all the links you want, there's nothing in a single one of them that supports your theory that Young's +/- makes a "compelling" argument that he should get more PT than Butler, Arenas, or Jamison or that he's more valuable to the team winning than those three.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Do you really want to use the Warriors OR Brian Cardinal as your basis???

Here is an 82games.com analysis calling Jamison an above average defender:

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/6/4/898840/an-alternate-view-on-amare-antawn

Here is an article criticizing your Cuban article because it says Sebastian Telfair is more valuable than Dirk Nowitzki:

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/mark-cubans-surprising-player-performance-numbers-580/

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Gil got up over the rim on that goaltend he argued for 5 minutes, so we've got that going for us

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

"And it is pretty obvious who is not reading. I mentioned in my post why a player's lift is important in jump shot AND driving to the basket. "

Except you lead with talking about his jump shot, which was not part of the original discussion, and your comments about driving to the basket are B.S. Nash can't get more than 8 inches off the ground and yet finishes around bigger players in the paint all the time. Same with Tony Parker. (And that's not even mentioning Iverson, whose vertical explosion quickly eroded after his first couple of years in the NBA, yet he retained the ability to absorb contact and finish in traffic effectively for years afterward). Having a big vertical is in no way a prerequisite for a guard to finish around the rim, o losing a couple inches off of his is hardly a death sentence to Arenas' game.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Gil, just close your eyes when you shoot free throws. We do! We also pray like heck too!

Posted by: JohnWWW | December 14, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

that original NYTimes article on Battier was a baseball fan trying to apply way too many stats to the nba.

besides, we all know Oberto is mr.intangible!

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

You claimed I said something I know I didn't. Either provide evidence that I did or drop this whole line of nonsense.

No, I didn't. I didn't claim that you said that plus/minus stats don't influence trades (or that they did). You said:

"Teams look at all kinds of things, but they don't base their rotations and PT allotments on them."

I provided evidence (the stuff from Wayne Winston ) that they did influence PT allotments when the Mavs played the Spurs in the playoffs a few years ago. Additionally, I provided evidence that it influenced the Warriors' decision to play Brian Cardinal.

I also provided evidence that plus/minus stats influence trades (by citing the Battier article). I consider this to be indirect evidence that plus/minus stats also influence playing time. Trades and PT decisions are both examples of controlling which players are on the floor playing for your team. So it's odd to think that such stats would influence one way of doing that (trades) and not another way (PT). That's why I said:

"I don't know why you would think they would influence trades and not playing time".

This was in anticipation of your reaction to evidence that teams do use such stats to make trade decisions. It was another way of saying "do you really think teams don't use this for PT even though they use it for trades"?

he should get more PT than Butler, Arenas, or Jamison

Where did I say this?


Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"Except you lead with talking about his jump shot, which was not part of the original discussion, and your comments about driving to the basket are B.S."

Clearly your lack in knowledge in basketball is showing. The topic was the importance of a lift of a player. And to teach you basketball 101, a player's lift is a necessity not only for those high flyers but to all who play the game. Nash, Parker yes they don't dunk but they still jump to get their shot off. Surely you will see a decline in their performance once they lose their "lift". You mentioned AI and you see a decline in his numbers the past few years, right? Do you still want to know the difference between a vertical and a lift?

Posted by: Dave381 | December 14, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Parker never played college ball, genius. (Of course, anyone who actually watches NBA games instead of getting all their intell from box scores would already know that Parker didn't play college ball.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Kal,

You are right about Parker not playing college ball in his bio it said his brother played 3 year at northwestern.

But you were wrong when you said "Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker would disagree".

Wade was a shooting guard in college and Parker has always been a point guard and my point (which you never pay any attention too) was Gil has a 2 guard mind set and is trying to play the point which may work in college but not in the NBA.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

The overriding question concerning Wade coming into the draft was whether he could play the PG slot because the conventional wisdom said he was too small to play SG in the NBA, so they thought he needed to play PG to be successful (which is the definition of a "SG in a PG's body"). Moreover, Wade did, in fact, play a lot of PG during his rookie season in Miami (and, in fact, still does to this day), but SG remains his primary (and best) position, despite being relatively undersized for it.


Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

When I watched the Heat game Chalmers and Arroyo played point guard not Wade!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"Nash, Parker yes they don't dunk but they still jump to get their shot off. "

Exactly. They jump, just not very high. And, as of this very moment, even with his reduced "lift," anyone who's watched Arenas play this season knows that he can still jump higher than either Nash or Parker. So what’s your point?

"Surely you will see a decline in their performance once they lose their "lift". "

When they've lost it completely and can't get off the floor at all? Sure. But no one other than you is talking about that. The issue is whether losing a few inches off his lift (yet still having more than average lift left) will severely hurt Arenas. The answer is "no."

"You mentioned AI and you see a decline in his numbers the past few years, right?"

When, as a result of age and mileage he became barely able to get off the floor at all? Again, no sh*t Sherlock. But that has nothing to do with Arenas. I was talking about Iverson in his prime, when he could no longer dunk, but still got up high enough to challenge bigger guys in the paint, even though he was playing below the rim. That's where Arenas is now. If you’d actually seen a game this season you’d know that he can get up, just not quite as high. But the amount he’s lost is considerably less than the amount he still has.

So, again, what's your point? That a player needs to be able to get off the ground to get a shot off around the rim? That a guy with absolutely no “lift” is sunk? Gee, thanks, Prof. Obvious. But that has nothing to do with anything, because Arenas hasn't lost all of his “lift,” no one said anything to imply that he had, and anyone who thinks he has hasn't watched a single nanosecond of a Wizards' game this season. He's got less of it after surgery, but he's still got plenty left to do the job.

"Do you still want to know the difference between a vertical and a lift?"

I still want to know why you insist on wasting everyone's time and embarrassing your family by continuing to post such empty headed drivel here.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

This team will live or die on the big three.

Saunders can adjust rotations, give more minutes to this guy or that guy but unless the big three are playing well this team doesn't have much of a chance.

And the three amigos are just not playing well together.

My guess is that Ernie will give them until the all-star break and then, if they're still struggling, make a big move.

Or try to make one. Or just make one for the heck of it.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"This was in anticipation of your reaction to evidence that teams do use such stats to make trade decisions."

So when you claimed I said something that I flat out didn't say, you weren't just wrong, lying, or talking out of your ass . . . you were just preemptively responding to something I hadn't actually said yet.

HA! I'll give you this, when you shovel crap, at least you do it in a creative fashion.

Style points to you.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

This, however:

"No, I didn't. I didn't claim that you said that plus/minus stats don't influence trades (or that they did). "
Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Is a bald-faced lie. To wit:

I don't know why you would think they would influence trades and not playing time.

Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I never said that. You said I did. Period.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"They jump, just not very high. And, as of this very moment, even with his reduced "lift," anyone who's watched Arenas play this season knows that he can still jump higher than either Nash or Parker. So what’s your point?"

Yes Arenas jumps higher than either Nash of Parker but his lift is not what he is accustomed to....before surgery. Unless he gets his "lift" back or make adjustment to his game he will continue to suffer. My point is you keep on rambling and writing this long messages while it is pretty obvious that you don't know a thing about. They were right, you've never played a single game of basketball in your life.

Posted by: Dave381 | December 14, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Is a bald-faced lie. To wit:

If I had been claiming that you had said something regarding trades, I would have phrased it as :

"I don't know why you think they influence trades and not playing time".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/would

I don't know why I'm wasting my time on this, but for the record, here's one definition of "would":

"used in auxiliary function to express probability or presumption in past or present time"

I am happy to have other readers evaluate your claim "they don't base their rotations and PT allotments on them" in light of the evidence I've supplied, and I'll leave things at that.


Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse


Grunfeld owes it to the organization to give the big three until right before the trade deadline to "make water" or get off the pot. Give all of them heavy minutes (about 35 mpg) to increase or maintain their potential trade value and ultimately if the grand experiment doesn't work out, I think he'll be able to find takers for Butler and Jamison. All is not lost!
However, Gilbert is ours and only ours for the next 4-5 years so everyone needs to just accept that and look toward the future.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | December 14, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

plus/minus is just a number. There is a lot to take into account when evaluating a player.

How about a 13 year pro. PG with an average of almost 20 pts/game & 8 assist/game that can't get an offer from any NBA team???

Stephon Marbury

His +- is probbly up there too.

Posted by: VBFan | December 14, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker would disagree.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Kal,

Parker was a point guard in college and is still a point guard.

http://www.interbasket.net/players/tonyparker.htm

Jason Williams was the heat's point guard and Wade played the 2 spot when the heat won a championship.

So, why would either of them disagree?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 14, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Plus...both these guys had hall of famer big men instead Haywood.

Posted by: Blurred | December 14, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

New Line Up:

Arenas
Young
Jamison
Blatch
Haywood

Bench:
Butler
Boykins
Foye
Oberto
McGee

Posted by: joe_eg98 | December 14, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Is a bald-faced lie. To wit:

If I had been claiming that you had said something regarding trades, I would have phrased it as :

"I don't know why you think they influence trades and not playing time".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/would

I don't know why I'm wasting my time on this, but for the record, here's one definition of "would":

"used in auxiliary function to express probability or presumption in past or present time"

I am happy to have other readers evaluate your claim "they don't base their rotations and PT allotments on them" in light of the evidence I've supplied, and I'll leave things at that.


Posted by: joe_sill | December 14, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

And i have to say that when i read the original post by joe sill, I read the "you" in question to be a generic, third person, plural you....as in meaning the same thing as "why would someone think..."

That being said, I don't agree that the +- is a very good gauge for evaluating talent. there are too many other variables, like who you are on the floor with and how well they are playing, and if you are only brought in for spot duty against a particularly aggressive foe. All of these things can swing the +- significantly.

Posted by: Blurred | December 14, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

This team will live or die on the big three.

Saunders can adjust rotations, give more minutes to this guy or that guy but unless the big three are playing well this team doesn't have much of a chance.

And the three amigos are just not playing well together.

My guess is that Ernie will give them until the all-star break and then, if they're still struggling, make a big move.

Or try to make one. Or just make one for the heck of it.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse


76 pts, 20 rebounds, 13 assists and 5 steals between them last game sounds pretty good to me. I think the problem has been getting the 3 playing well together and getting any kind of support from the bulk of the rest of the team.

Posted by: Blurred | December 14, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

and Blatche, Foye, Haywood, Dom and DSteve provided a total of 13 pts and 8 assists between them, although they did get a few boards and a couple steals.

Posted by: Blurred | December 14, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

I know that I'm very optimistic.
I really think that the Wizzies can turn this thing around and do it quickly.
This road trip will tell a lot. If they win 2 outa 3 that will be a big 1st step.
If they come back 0 for 3 I'll jump off the band wagon ( maybe under it).

Posted by: VBFan | December 14, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

76 pts, 20 rebounds, 13 assists and 5 steals between them last game sounds pretty good to me

Playing well goes beyond the numbers or stats line.

It's playing well during the critical moments of a game.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse


It's playing well during the critical moments of a game.

As former Georgetown Hoya coach John Thompson is fond of saying, "It's not what you do, it's when you do it!"


Posted by: tgif11 | December 14, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Wow, my head is spinning...lift, jump, +-, blah blah blah.

The recent good that provides hope for the future:

-Arenas' legs looking like they are more spry and his play is following suite. I think perhaps that calf injury slowed him down more for a week or two than the team let on. He is pushing tempo now which is what he needs to do for this team to be successful.
-Young is playing better.
-CB had perhaps his best game against Indiana.
-Actually running and being successful with the high pick and roll. If you can't be successful at the basics, then you are doomed to fail.
-Blatche is now a reliable player virtually every game and should be used in tandem with Haywood more often. He is our best forward at making plays for others - not CB. Not even close.
-DS actually has played well and plays harder/tougher than any player on the roster and combined with his chemistry with the starters is why he is getting mins. Why others don't see this is beyond me?

The continued negatives:

-CB's below par play on most nights and possible chemistry/dissension issues.
-Reliance on a too short PG to play big mins. His dribbling a hole in the court for the first 15 secs of the shot clock is not and will never be the answer. Yeah, he makes a couple of buckets and had a couple of big games, but he is not the answer whatsoever. Forget about his defense which is laughable. The more he plays the more the league will remember how to exploit him.
-As soon as our offense shows signs of life, our defense goes in the dumpster. No effort on that end whatsoever now. Disappointing. Actually coincides with the return of AJ. Go figure!
-No team IQ whatsoever!
-Poor coaching for a couple of games. Flip will turn it around.
-Arenas' and the teams psyche is fragile at best.


This trip may be the season! No winning record or running the table and the season is over!

Posted by: rphilli721 | December 14, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

As for as EG and the presumed new owner Leonsis is concerned, remember McPhee and Leonsis went through the Jagr years - large contracts and high hopes (ring a bell?). McPhee and EG are very similar in that they are both well regarded GM's who have yet to win championships. I think the comparison is appropriate bc it shows that Leonsis has patience with the people who know their sport. The Caps got some luck in getting Ovechkin and now their talent level is as good as any team in the league. So, Leonsis has gone through rebuilds and did not axe his GM for failed attempts in the past. I doubt EG will be summarily fired or at least it is not a given and shouldn't be.

Posted by: rphilli721 | December 14, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

"Did Troy Murphy score a point in the 2nd half?

The 2nd half D was not bad and often pretty strong. No, that doesnt excuse the piss-poor 2nd quarter...but it does speak towards Gil/Flip talking about playing 48mins

Posted by: divi3 | December 13, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse"

Troy Murphy made plenty of baskets in the 2nd half.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=291212027

Pay attention homer.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

"But lets blame Jamison for the loss, even though he played damn near the whole game and kept us in it by shooting the lights out and getting 3 steals (how can that be? he never once in his life ever played any defense - besides, he is too small and too slow and has an ugly shot).

Jamison needs to make his FT's...agreed. but he is not the weak link on this team.

Posted by: Blurred | December 13, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse "

MeTawn can score as many points as he wants, but if his opponent on the court scores more than he does, he's not doing his job.

MeTawn is a weak link on defense.....both he and Gilby are probably the worse in the starting lineup.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

rphilli71: Whatever! EG has done nothing in this league other than draft Michael Redd(Mil.Bucks)trust me he'll be on a short leash after giving Gil that max contract this team had better come around soon this road trip is critical they lose all four and EG and Flip had better have some answers when step off that plane,bottom line is they need to win all four or at least three of four.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 14, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

'Pay attention homer.

Posted by: DC_MAN8'

he didnt score at all in the 4th and we outscored the pacers 38-21 in the 3rd.

My point was the defense shored up after the atrocious 2nd quarter. You may not have noticed in your joy and giddiness at the loss.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

"MeTawn can score as many points as he wants, but if his opponent on the court scores more than he does, he's not doing his job."

Jamison was the high scorer for the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=291212027

Pay attention, hater.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

"Unless he gets his "lift" back or make adjustment to his game he will continue to suffer."

And, again, if you'd actually watched the games you'd see that he is making that adjustment. The last several games he's been going to the hole with more authority and finishing and getting fouled, despite the fact that he's not getting up quite as high on his drives. All of which quite simply and clearly underscores my point: that while he has lost some of his explosiveness, he hasn't lost enough that his game is inherently suffering because of it. Right now his problems are mental, not physical. He himself has said as much, more than once.

"They were right, you've never played a single game of basketball in your life."

Even if that were true (and it's not) so what? I find it hilarious that people seem to think that their "experience" playing basketball in the short fat-guy rec league at the local Y somehow gives them special first-hand insight into what goes on in the NBA. It doesn't. So stop pretending you have some kind of first-hand insight into Arenas' situation, because you don't. You've never had a fraction of his ability so you have no first hand clue what losing a fraction of it is like. You're just like every other fan: on the outside looking in.

"I am happy to have other readers evaluate your claim "they don't base their rotations and PT allotments on them"

SO am I since prevailing opinion from those that have commented has come down on my side.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

"Plus...both these guys had hall of famer big men instead Haywood."

Exactly. So maybe the problem isn't that Arenas is (supposedly) a "SG in a PG's body." Maybe the problem is that unlike other similarly-sized guards with similar games, he's never had a dominant (or even a competent) big man to anchor the offense inside.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Whatever! EG has done nothing in this league other than draft Michael Redd(Mil.Bucks)trust me he'll be on a short leash after giving Gil that max contract this team had better come around soon this road trip is critical they lose all four and EG and Flip had better have some answers when step off that plane,bottom line is they need to win all four or at least three of four.

This is why you make no sense. He had the Bucks as a winning team. He put together the Knicks teams that went to the Finals.

Michael Redd is the only thing he's ever done?

"While Grunfeld was the Knicks top executive, New York advanced to at least the Conference Semifinals of the NBA Playoffs each season. He had five 50-plus win seasons, three Atlantic Division Championships, and two trips to the NBA Finals (in 1994 and 1999). In eight seasons as general manager or vice-president of player personnel, his Knicks teams had a record of 397–227 (.636), and a 61–44 record in the playoffs."

His moves put the Wizards back in the playoffs. Do you remember what it was like before 2002? I guess Eddie Jordan signed the players and made the trades too. I swear you have a Eddie Jordan snuggie or something.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

" Do you remember what it was like before 2002?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse "

LOL!

Yeah, I remember what it was like in 2002.

It's just like it was last season and this season so far.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Yeah if you want to skip the 4 years before.
The last time there were 4 straight .500 seasons?

1975-1979.

They didn't even win a playoff series since the year I was born.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

"Right now his problems are mental, not physical. He himself has said as much, more than once.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 14, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse "

Gilby's problems are both mental and physical, but the latter to a lesser extent.

He said as much earlier in the season when he said that after 3 knee surgeries, you're not what you once were.

Clearly Gilby cannot finish as strong as he used to because in the past, he used to go up looking to make the basket. Now, he's looking to pass or to draw the foul without even attempting a serious shot.

I laugh at those getting giddy when they heard he was dunking at Barry Farms again. As I've said before, the 9 ft rims at BF aren't the same NBA regulation rims.

Gilby has yet to dunk this season, I think.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

""MeTawn can score as many points as he wants, but if his opponent on the court scores more than he does, he's not doing his job."

Jamison was the high scorer for the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=291212027

Pay attention, hater.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse "

Pay attention @sss....

MeTawn "guarded" both Troy Murphy and Tyler Hansborough when TH came in for Troy.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

"he didnt score at all in the 4th and we outscored the pacers 38-21 in the 3rd.

My point was the defense shored up after the atrocious 2nd quarter. You may not have noticed in your joy and giddiness at the loss.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse "

You asked whether Troy Murphy scored in the 2nd half of the game.

I clearly pointed that out to you.

When TM wasn't scoring on MeTawn, Tyler Hansborough came in and did the job.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

"My point was the defense shored up after the atrocious 2nd quarter. You may not have noticed in your joy and giddiness at the loss.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse ""

The defense shored up so well that right after a timeout, Earl Watson had a beautiful alley oop dunk to Tyler Hansborough.

I hope you enjoyed that as much as you enjoyed Gilby choking on the FT line once again.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Taking the ball to the basket is less about sheer altitude than it is about coordination. If you attempt to 'sky' from somewhere out in the lane, you're likely to pick up an offensive foul. Better to drive directly at the shotblocker, 'freeze' him in position, and let him swat helplessly at the ball. That awkward attempt is likely to result in a three point play.

Remember when the color commentators began to notice that Michael Jordan was jumping forward rather than up in his sojourns to the basket?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 14, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

"Yeah if you want to skip the 4 years before.
The last time there were 4 straight .500 seasons?

1975-1979.

They didn't even win a playoff series since the year I was born.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse "

How did those last 3 playoff appearances work out?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards will win tonight. Bank on it.

Posted by: artiesliver | December 14, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

How did those last 3 playoff appearances work out?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse


The same way it did for 29 other teams in the league.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse

"The same way it did for 29 other teams in the league.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse "

Do you care about the 29 other teams like you care about Les BouleS?

I don't think so.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I have a bad feeling about the game tonight. Vegas set the line at Clippers -2 for the game. 80% of the money has come in on the Wizards in the game and Vegas hasn't moved the line an inch. Not a good sign for the Wizards backers.

I am going to kill myself if I stay up till 1am and we lose another heartbreaker.

Posted by: dominic10464 | December 14, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Do you care about the 29 other teams like you care about Les BouleS?

I don't think so.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I care about reality. They didn't win a championship. Regardless of injuries or anything else.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

"MeTawn "guarded" both Troy Murphy and Tyler Hansborough when TH came in for Troy."

I didnt realize Jamison was responsible for the 62 minutes that Murphy and Hansbrough were on the floor.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

I have a bad feeling about the game tonight. Vegas set the line at Clippers -2 for the game. 80% of the money has come in on the Wizards in the game and Vegas hasn't moved the line an inch. Not a good sign for the Wizards backers.

I am going to kill myself if I stay up till 1am and we lose another heartbreaker.

Posted by: dominic10464 | December 14, 2009 9:56 PM

Stay up and enjoy a rare Wizards victory. They're too good to lose to the Clippers.

Posted by: artiesliver | December 14, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

"I didnt realize Jamison was responsible for the 62 minutes that Murphy and Hansbrough were on the floor.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse "

He wasn't.

MeTawn guarded both Murphy and Hansborough at times during the game.

Rinse, repeat.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

"I care about reality. They didn't win a championship. Regardless of injuries or anything else.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse "

Just b/c other teams suck, doesn't mean it's ok for Les BouleS to suck.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Just b/c other teams suck, doesn't mean it's ok for Les BouleS to suck.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

So a team sucks because they don't win the championship?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 14, 2009 11:12 PM | Report abuse

"Right now his problems are mental, not physical"

Wrong again. If you'd actually watched his games before surgery you will see how quick he drives to the basket and how many "and 1" he makes every game. Yes, he still drives to the basket but you will readily see the difference (if you know basketball....which obviously you don't).

"You've never had a fraction of his ability so you have no first hand clue what losing a fraction of it is like."

I've never said I was an NBA player but I do know that Gilbert has lose a step or two from his all-star days. Whether he can regain it no one knows. One thing I know is you don't know when a player regress or when a play suffer both mental AND physical.

Posted by: Dave381 | December 15, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

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