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Blatche suspended for a game; 3 players speak to investigators

The Wizards held a brief practice on Monday, with Flip Saunders reduced to only eight available players. They were already without Gilbert Arenas (suspended indefinitely) and Javaris Crittenton (excused leave of absence). Then, Brendan Haywood, Caron Butler and DeShawn Stevenson had to speak with law enforcement authorities about Arenas's gun possession case and the details surrounding the Dec. 21 dispute between Arenas and Crittenton. Mike Miller was limited because of his sore right calf and to top it off, Andray Blatche was kicked out of practice and suspended for tomorrow's game against the Detroit Pistons for conduct detrimental to the team.

If it's not one thing, it's another with these Wizards, who are dealing with some distraction on a daily basis. Saunders wouldn't elaborate much on the suspension, but it was based on his behavior during Sunday's 115-110 loss to New Orleans. Blatche had zero points, three rebounds and three turnovers in almost 17 minutes. After the game, Blatche dressed, went to Randy Foye's locker and sprayed himself down with Foye's cologne. Head athletic trainer Eric Waters approached Blatche and asked him to head to the training room. Blatche responded, "Do I look like I care about my knee?"

That incident was not the reason for the suspension, according to a Wizards spokesperson, but it is not good for a team that continues to deal with more and more adversity. "It's already been too much," Antawn Jamison said after practice.

On a positive note, Earl Boykins's contract was guaranteed for the remainder of the season.

By Michael Lee  |  January 11, 2010; 1:45 PM ET
 
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Next: Morning brew: Blatche suspension and more Arenas

Comments

My negativity toward GA is basketball-related...always has been since he got resigned.

If the current situation is what it takes to get him out of town, so be it.

I don't wish malice on him...I only wish for the Wiz to be relieved of his contract.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

is he that much worse, "basketball wise" ?

doesn't your statment betray you? you say your feelings are basketball related, but they center on the date that he signed his contract. One would think that you felt differently about him before he signed his contract, since you only felt negatively about him after he earned his contract. Furthermore one would say that you are in the minority, since he was rewarded with that contract because of his "basketball related" achievements and contributions.


i love u funk, but it sounds like the money changed you.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 11, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse


Money changes everyone LH.

And the answer is simple. I don't think his basketball is worth a max contract. I never did, and I still don't. So when we gave him a max-contract it changed my perception of him - it's not personally, still only business.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

One thing that could become obvious with the alienation of Gilbert is that team management doesn't really care about the players. It is obvious that Grunfeld and the Wiz tried to cover the gun incident up because they already knew the ramifications and then when it got hot in the kitchen, they bailed on Gil. Blatche and everybody else know what time it is.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 11, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Wanting someone's career to be f--ked up to better your favorite team is pu-k.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 11, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Pollin was generous personally but his one failing was not being a good judge of talent whether it was on the court or in the front office.

Pollin forced Grunfeld to resign the 33 year old Jamison and then Arenas in order to keep together a core that had won NOTHING in the NBA.

Sorry, folks. I grew up watching the Lakers, I don't see how a team that goes to the playoffs with a 42-40 record for a series of years deserves any consideration from the front office to be labeled a 'core' to build with.

I guess that's the problem here.

The expectations have been far too LOW for far too LONG.

Posted by: leopard09 | January 11, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

What's with these Jamison for Hickson rumors? We need a better deal than that...

Posted by: MeviousMan | January 11, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

oh boy. I bet Flip Saunders is questioning his decision to come here.

Posted by: tundey | January 11, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

You may not think his basketball warranted a max contract, but you can't fault him for maximizing his earning potential.

That's what they tell us professionals to do right? He had an opportunity to opt of a contract and make more money. That's SMART.

Gil WAS one of the top 5 scorers in the league. Kobe, LeBron, Melo, Wade, Gil. If you gave someone that list when he went down of the top 5 pure SCORERS. They could argue it, but couldn't dispute that he belonged on the list.

So I don't fault them for giving him that contract. He earned ever penny of the original contract. He only played like what 20+ games after 2 years off? And still put up 23 and 7 and was starting to play better. The December numbers were better than the November numbers.

Nobody has any answers to this question. Let Gil and AJ walk 2 years ago for what?

Anybody?

Who in their right mind? Let alone in charge of a business, takes a team that hasn't done anything, to a team that at least makes the playoffs and let 2/3 of the best players walk for nothing in return?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Wow is all I can say, collectively how stupid can they be. Only good note from this is Javale McGee should get ample playing time and showcase his talents to remain on the floor.

KEEP GIL IN DC

Posted by: Gooddad | January 11, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse


I think Flip is one and done here and the parting will be mutual with a partial buyout.

This is not the right team for him. Period.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

oh boy. I bet Flip Saunders is questioning his decision to come here.

Posted by: tundey | January 11, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse


Yup, I bet he's PISSED right now...this is not what he signed up for.

Posted by: Gooddad | January 11, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I doubt Saunders is questioning his decision; I'm sure he unequivocally regrets it. What is there to question? This team is a complete, utter disaster. Ted Leonsis, you can't get here soon enough.

I'm so, so sick of Andray Blatche.

Posted by: Tank2 | January 11, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Blatche's attitude is not surprising. One more kindergartner for Daycare Flip to watch after. Too bad AJ and Caron have to experience this too. Immaturity is at an all-time high.

Wiz are a joke. It happened on Grunfeld's watch.

I will not let these players steal my money any longer. My four 100 Level seats will not be renewed in 2010. I can only handle so much laughing in my face from players I truly backed. I feel let down by this franchise right now.

Posted by: WhoSays | January 11, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry, folks. I grew up watching the Lakers"

Remember when Gil dumped 60 on Kobe's head and took a bow for Jack??? Good times.

"I don't see how a team that goes to the playoffs with a 42-40 record for a series of years deserves any consideration from the front office to be labeled a 'core' to build with."

Really it boils down to Gil's knee. He was typical of transcendent scorers in the league when they are under 25- he didnt play D, except for steals, and he looked for his all the time.

Many great scorers dont really start playing tough D until later in their careers. That includes DWade, Kobe, Paul Pierce, etc. Gotta get your sea legs on offense first, establish that you'll go for 40 in a blink, and suddenly games are planned around stopping you etc.

Maybe Gil was never gonna play D, maybe he was, but we'll never know because of the injury. THAT is the true curse, not the gun charges. Arenas clearly could have been amongst the most elite players in the nba, MVP contender...then he got hurt. Signing him was based on the hope he could come back from it, with the understanding that that type of talent rarely comes along.

C'est la vie!

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Wanting someone's career to be f--ked up to better your favorite team is pu-k.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 11, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse


If this was directed at me, then you misunderstand my statements.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

i'm telling you, blatche is infuriated the crap-foot story got out. It's going to follow him a long time.

Who's the snitch????

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"I will not let these players steal my money any longer. My four 100 Level seats will not be renewed in 2010. I can only handle so much laughing in my face from players I truly backed. I feel let down by this franchise right now. Posted by: WhoSays"

Why is it I think this is a troll?

I'm such a cynic.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Ted Leonsis is a smart business man and will undoubtedly recognize that he has to show the season ticket holders that a new sheriff is in town.

Right or wrong (personally I think it's right), that means Grunfeld's tenure is over as GM. This team is a complete mess and it starts at the top.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"Pollin was generous personally but his one failing was not being a good judge of talent whether it was on the court or in the front office."

That's EXACTLY right and it goes back years.

I remember when the Bullets were thinking of changing their name and on the radio Kevin Grievy(sp?) was talking about that very thing leopard09 just said.

He said he was "shocked" that they were even considering it and how wonderful of a guy Mr.Polin was but also how he must be getting bad advice from someone because of how too trusting he was of the people around him.

Well we all know how that turned out. We know Susan OMalley was a terrible president, how Wes ran the team into the ground as GM, and I while I am a MJ fan too he should have never been allowed to run the team.

EG is no exception and deserves to be fired.

This is why I can't wait until Ted Leonsis finally buys the team. I am so sick of this crap.

I just want to talk about basketball.

"Let Gil and AJ walk 2 years ago for what?"

Yes Gil, no to AJ. And I WAS one of the people on here who thought they should have let him walk. You never sign a dude with a bum knee for $111mil....never.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | January 11, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Who in their right mind? Let alone in charge of a business, takes a team that hasn't done anything, to a team that at least makes the playoffs and let 2/3 of the best players walk for nothing in return?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse


There were plenty of warning signs and plenty of debate happening at the time regarding re-signing thses guys, so don't act like it was a "no-brainer" (though I think it was a "no-brainer" in that brains were not being used properly).

Gilbert was on crutches. CRUTCHES when EG dangled a max-contract in front of him. Even without the crutches, Gil never showed (1) the capacity to be a team leader or (2) a willingness or capacity to play ANY defense.

Yeah, the dude could score. He could light it up. So can JR Smith. So can Antwan Jamison.

As far as AJ goes, the dude was on the wrong side of 30, and plenty of people were questioning the wisdom of giving $50 mill to someone on the other side of their playing prime. But they knew it was package deal with Gil and AJ, because if they kept Gil, they knew AJ would be his $50 million babysitter.

But you hit the nail on the head. EG made a "business" decision. Gil would shoot half-court 3 pointers and chuck his jersey into the stands. He'd make jokes with the press corps and yuck it up with Mike Wise.

Meanwhile, the franchise would be lucky to get bounced in the 2nd round of the playoffs, with $160 mill tied up on 2 tweeners who can hit 3s, but can't play defense.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"Let Gil and AJ walk 2 years ago for what?"

++++++++++++++++++

Cap flexibility.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

p1funk

It was not directed towards anyone or any comment in particular. It is directed at a lot of people. One of these p-nks in the media on am980 said it and triggered me to post my comment. I have seen it in these blogs though too.

I also think Grunfeld and Stern are a pu-ks too because "the team" was covering it up until, like I said earlier, it got hot in the kitchen. Now the the league wants to suspend Gil and "the team" is having nothing to do with the "smoking gun". They cover it up for as long as they can either use you or either you will get you into trouble. But you know what, Grunfeld ain't admitting to what went on is he? The team said that Gil brought the guns to the lockerroom and turned them over to the team to turn over to the league to turn in to the authorities. For fu-king what? As it turns out, there was a lot of gaps they didn't fill in with that story. Do you honestly think that Gil was the only one involved in making up the story "that I brought the guns into my lockerroom so my gets wouldn't get ahold of them"? That statement was made up by the "team" as a cover-up. Now team management is distancing itself from Arenas. I bet that is what got Blatche pissed-off.

That is pun-!!!

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 11, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

I was at the game yesterday and Blatche just looked and played like he didnt give a damn! I dont care what's going on in your personal life or your issues with the team but you CANNOT bring that tired ass attitude on the court! Ship him out of DC with his Uncle Greg Blatche!

Posted by: dacovert1 | January 11, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is a total tool, pleaase get him out of here NOW. But I digress, did he actually put his foot into the crap filled shoe? Did he have socks or shoes on? Bet it was all so squishy!!!!

Posted by: nowhine | January 11, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

i don't understand, what did blatche do to get suspended? did he and foye fight over cologne? this is the type of "figure out your own story" reporting that got the post "scooped" by the NY Times. Sure the ftimes story was false, but they ran what they had because they thought it was a major story (and possibly true). Mike Lee with this half @ss shyyyyyt about Blatch sparyed down with Foyes cologne and snapped at the trainer about his knee treatment. where's the story here???????????

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 11, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Earning 3 to 5 million dollars a year is more then enough of an incentive to deal with this nonsense which it is.
They need to purge this roster an obviously someone needs to grill Grunfeld it seems these sportcasters and reporters have given him a pass. He is the decion maker and in charge and ulimately should be held accountable for some of these decisions.

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | January 11, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"I also think Grunfeld and Stern are a pu-ks too because "the team" was covering it up until, like I said earlier, it got hot in the kitchen. Now the the league wants to suspend Gil and "the team" is having nothing to do with the "smoking gun". They cover it up for as long as they can either use you or either you will get you into trouble. But you know what, Grunfeld ain't admitting to what went on is he? The team said that Gil brought the guns to the lockerroom and turned them over to the team to turn over to the league to turn in to the authorities. For fu-king what? As it turns out, there was a lot of gaps they didn't fill in with that story. Do you honestly think that Gil was the only one involved in making up the story "that I brought the guns into my lockerroom so my gets wouldn't get ahold of them"? That statement was made up by the "team" as a cover-up. Now team management is distancing itself from Arenas. I bet that is what got Blatche pissed-off."

Wow. That's all I can think of to say.

Wow.

We're a scary bunch.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert was on crutches. CRUTCHES when EG dangled a max-contract in front of him. Even without the crutches, Gil never showed (1) the capacity to be a team leader or (2) a willingness or capacity to play ANY defense.

Ernie didn't dangle it. Gil WANTED a max contract. He was going to get big money. Had he rehabbed right and kept his all-star play up in LA or Golden State, it would've been bloody murder.

People still complain about Larry Hughes leaving. Point blank is Gil was the catalyst of turning a joke into a winner.

Gil didn't just shoot from half court and toss his jersey into the stands and don't compare him with J.R. Smith, they are nothing alike. If you let me shoot 17 3's in a game I could put up some points too.

People have short memories but I posted the old roster. Gil carried the team. I talked about the LeBron wars in the playoffs. Gil WAS a special player. J.R. Smith won't put 60 (or a majority of 60 on Kobe.)I don't know if he'll get back to it. He showed signs of getting there possibly.

Cap flexibility to do WHAT!?!?!
As much as people talk about how cheap the franchise is...you let the franchise player walk for cap room? Turn your back on winning for cap room? To sign who? Everyone was screaming for Elton Brand.

How did that work out?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Remind me again how many championships cap flexibility has won...

Posted by: IrenePollin | January 11, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

i'm telling you, blatche is infuriated the crap-foot story got out. It's going to follow him a long time.

Who's the snitch????

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I'm so depressed about the Wiz lately, but this comment made me laugh. "Crap-Foot."

Posted by: herb6 | January 11, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Talent wise, I've always had the feeling that Blatche could be a pretty darn good player in this league. Kinda' rooted for the kid, really. But, I guess none of us really knows what's going on inside that locker room or at practices. If Blatche is some kind of attitude problem child, then he needs to go whenever the house cleaning starts. If not, then is it the coaching staff? Whatever it is, they need to start over and build it right.

On a separate note, I wonder if the Wiz have somebody working with Javale McGee to harness and develop the tremendous talent that kid has? Or is he just sitting there, stewing, ready to become the next attitude problem from lack of use?

Posted by: clfrdj | January 11, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"Remind me again how many championships cap flexibility has won.."

The exact same amount of championships Gilbert has won in his life.... Zero

Posted by: S2DU | January 11, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of everyone on this team, including the general manager. Pathetic!

Posted by: john24 | January 11, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Remind me again how many championships cap flexibility has won...

Posted by: IrenePollin | January 11, 2010 3:10 PM

If the Lakers didn't have cap flexibility in '96, they wouldn't have been able to sign Shaq. If you have flexibility at the right time, you can change the course of your franchise.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

blatche is soft. trade him

Posted by: ryjufox3 | January 11, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

It always amazes me when people complain about the high contracts of athletes like they force their employers to pay them. So let's see the first person to raise their hand that would not get the maximum amount of money at their employer for themselves?
So if I had a son or daughter and they were qualified to make maximum money legally, I would advise him "No-don't take the money". Leave it to someone else or maybe even leave it with the owner who somehow has enough money to pay all of you millionaires who entertain us.

Posted by: ptp23 | January 11, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

If the Lakers didn't have cap flexibility in '96, they wouldn't have been able to sign Shaq. If you have flexibility at the right time, you can change the course of your franchise.

Okay. SO you know who the FA's were that year AND the year after. The Lakers are the Lakers. They will get players we never will.

Didn't Shaq said he dreamed of playing for them anyway?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"People still complain about Larry Hughes leaving."

And on top of that, they're still moaning about trading Webber, both Wallaces, and Hamilton. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the past looks a lot better when viewed from a distance.

"If the Lakers didn't have cap flexibility in '96, they wouldn't have been able to sign Shaq. If you have flexibility at the right time, you can change the course of your franchise."

Only if that flexibility results in a franchise-altering player. (A) Such players are few and far between and (B) there's little evidence to suggest that Washington would be a desirable destination for such a player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"On a positive note, Earl Boykins's contract was guaranteed for the remainder of the season." Ha ha, that's a joke, right? A positive note! Haw haw haw!

Posted by: PostSubscriber | January 11, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone actually surprised by Blatche's little hissy fit? Really?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

re: Cap Room

there was also talk of getting Shawn Marion rather then reupping AJ. How many teams has Matrix been on since he signed his deal?

Has ever come to play every night since he got PAID?

I'd take AJ over Marion 100x outta 100

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Okay. SO you know who the FA's were that year AND the year after. The Lakers are the Lakers. They will get players we never will.

Didn't Shaq said he dreamed of playing for them anyway?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:30 PM

Shaq's dream is irrelevant if the Lakers didn't have the cap room to sign him outright, correct?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"Shaq's dream is irrelevant if the Lakers didn't have the cap room to sign him outright, correct?"

Shaq to LA is one Stern would have brokered himself if need be. LA is one of those teams.

Sorta like how Ainge and Mchale could collude to send KG to boston....C's being good is good for the league and Stern knows it.

Wizards? not so much

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

"Shaq's dream is irrelevant if the Lakers didn't have the cap room to sign him outright, correct?"

And, conversely, having the cap room does nothing to help a team if they can't use it to sign a player that matters.

The only way the Wizards could have freed up any real cap space back then would have been to renounce bot Arenas and Jamison as FAs. Off the top of my head I don't even remember who the FAs were back then, but I can say with confidence that the odds of the Wizards signing anyone who would have had a bigger impact on the team that a healthy Jamison and Arenas were capable of having were pretty much nonexistent.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

besides, we will NEVER, EVER sign the likes of Shaq, Kobe, KG, Lebron, DWade, etc.

We have to get a guy with MVP potential from a team as dumb as us that stumbles around for years and years.

Cant look to established stars, they arent coming here. We have to fleece fellow dregs of supposed malcontents on their rosters.

or win the lotto in the right year

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Artiesilver got it right. Whoever is running this franchise now understands that they have to establish a culture of accountability with this team. If any of these players is not committed 100% to being a professional, they'll pay some how. That's the new mantra. The team can't parse every player-transgression one at a time. They're trying to set standards. Long overdue.

Posted by: jweber1 | January 11, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"i don't understand, what did blatche do to get suspended? did he and foye fight over cologne? this is the type of "figure out your own story" reporting that got the post "scooped" by the NY Times. Sure the ftimes story was false, but they ran what they had because they thought it was a major story (and possibly true). Mike Lee with this half @ss shyyyyyt about Blatch sparyed down with Foyes cologne and snapped at the trainer about his knee treatment. where's the story here???????????"

potd, come on INSIDER, step it up!

How are we supposed to know if Blatche is acting like a baby, or if Gil somehow managed to crap in his other shoe??

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

And, conversely, having the cap room does nothing to help a team if they can't use it to sign a player that matters.

The only way the Wizards could have freed up any real cap space back then would have been to renounce bot Arenas and Jamison as FAs. Off the top of my head I don't even remember who the FAs were back then, but I can say with confidence that the odds of the Wizards signing anyone who would have had a bigger impact on the team that a healthy Jamison and Arenas were capable of having were pretty much nonexistent.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 3:37 PM

Likewise, being over the cap with players that don't matter (Butler, Jamison, Arenas) does nothing to help the team.
This team won 19 games with Butler and Jamison on the roster and have struggled mightily this season with the "Big 3" largely healthy and available for the majority of the season.
You admit that you don't remember the players who were available as free agents a couple years ago, but still you're sure the Wizards' odds of signing them were non-existent. Curious.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

And on top of that, they're still moaning about trading Webber, both Wallaces, and Hamilton. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the past looks a lot better when viewed from a distance.

I didn't even wanna get into that. I even remember Gossip Girl talking about Mark Price not too long ago.

Shaq's dream is irrelevant if the Lakers didn't have the cap room to sign him outright, correct?

Okay rewind. Gil and AJ are gone. people were saying sign Baron Davis and Brand. Who were the FA's last season? Does anybody remember? No.

Anybody? Who do you sign to keep a team that has been winning in that position after 20 years of losing? Do you play for "cap room" and pray like the Knicks are this season? What happens if the don't get any of the guys they want?

EXACTLY.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Sit Jamison and let Blatche start.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

You admit that you don't remember the players who were available as free agents a couple years ago, but still you're sure the Wizards' odds of signing them were non-existent. Curious.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629

There they are. Corey Maggette is looking like a winner now isn't he! Maggette and Baron Davis...there we go!

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I guess we'll have to wait for the NY Post story before we find out what Blatche did. Heaven forbid the Washington Post scribes stepping on anyones feet to get some facts.

Posted by: dovelevine | January 11, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is the next Kevin Garnett

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Nothing "curious" about it.

Why would a legit, franchise changing superstar want to sign a long-term deal with a Wizards team consisting of (at the time) Butler, Stevenson, Haywood, Songaila, Thomas, and Blatche? Does that sound like the core of a contending team? Esp. for a franchise that last contended for a title during the Carter administration?

It takes more than money to attract the kind of players you're talking about, because players like that will get the money wherever they go. The franchise has to offer them something more. Had they let let Arenas and Jamison walk, the Wizards wouldn't have had anything to offer but money. And when you have nothing to offer but money, you end up with the kind of players who don't want anything more than money. (For more info, see Redskins, Washington (subref: Snyder, Daniel.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I confess that I'm one of those guys who thought EG was on the right track by building around Arenas, Jamison and Butler, giving the team continuity and credibility. But since Arenas shot himself in the foot, or crapped into a shoe, it's clear that this strategy can't work. So it's time to move in another direction.

But I've got to believe that Leonsis is going to have to be a part of this rebuilding and he isn't the majority owner at this point. The sooner we can get clarity at the very top, the better for everyone.

I agree with the posters here who complain about Butler continuing to force the action when there's nothing there. I'd like to see EG make a deal for him before the trade deadline, especially if he can get a mobile big like Stoudamire. That may not be possible anymore.

And, yeah, Blatche playing like a jerk going through the motions is something I didn't think we would see this year, but there he was on Sunday playing like a total softy. If he can't get his head together quickly, then he ought to be shown the door too.

I'm sure some kind of deal will materialize soon, but I've got to believe the EG is talking with the minority partner who likely will soon be in control of the franchise. I'm looking forward to seeing the next direction. Meanwhile, I can't help myself: I still root for this Wizards.

Posted by: zinger1 | January 11, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"Sit Jamison and let Blatche start.Posted by: Blurred |"

Suppose we did that. Does Blatche's scoring and rebounding replace Jamison's? Surely he's not a big defensive improvement. He's playing beside Brendan Haywood, who's also big and not too fast.

Suppose we sat Butler or Mitchell and let Nick Young play those minutes. Does he replace Butler's defense or Mitchell's ballhandling and rebounding? Does he average 20 points a game?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

And when you have nothing to offer but money, you end up with the kind of players who don't want anything more than money. (For more info, see Redskins, Washington (subref: Snyder, Daniel.)


And Danny Manning...And DC...And Blatche.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Samson...I was just being a smartazz repeating what 2/3 of the posters were saying like 3 weeks ago.

Obviously sitting Jamison and playing Blatche is moronic.

But I have to ask...who is Mitchell? Do you mean Mitchell Butler of the '93-'94 team? Is he available?

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

There they are. Corey Maggette is looking like a winner now isn't he! Maggette and Baron Davis...there we go!

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:51 PM

Gee, I didn't know you had to use the cap space on free agents only. Is there any other way to use the cap space to acquire talent?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Artie...you can trade.

But is you don't have the players signed, you can't trade them.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629

There they are. Corey Maggette is looking like a winner now isn't he! Maggette and Baron Davis...there we go!"

It's also worth noting that most of the noteworthy players on that list (restricted and unrestricted alike) ended up staying with their existing teams. So (putting aside the fact that none of those players are franchise changers) the only way the Wizards could have likely attracted any of them would be to overpay for them, the very strategy that has people criticizing the Arenas deal.
So instead of complaining about Arenas' deal, people could be complaining about Ben Gordon's or Jose Calderon's

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

^ DeJuan Blair update?

Posted by: prescrunk | January 11, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Blatche appears SOFT for not BEATING zero's ARSE for SHATTING in his shoes! That's what is upset about!

Posted by: whatyoutalkinboutman | January 11, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

I wish we were complaining about Dwight Howard's contract

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

oh yeah and glawrence MM had 3 tos yesterday. NY had 2, not a huge diff, but you prolly only remember NY's 2 tos cuz they were in the 4th q. you know the q when NY had 8pts while MM was unavailable after reinjuring his calf (due to logging more mins than expected vs.ORL).

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 11, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

You don't suppose MM playing on one leg had anything to do with that do you? Or are you as much a NICK YOUNG apologist and I am a MM one? NICK YOUNG has offensive game, but is only just now learning a team concept on that end. And his defense is no better than BOYKINS or FOYE, all of whom were abused on the defensive end all day, not just in the fourth.

Meanwhile after shooting wide-open j's all game, CP3 and other N.O. guards were up on the perimeter contesting WIZARDS looks few of which were open because of it, especially in the fourth.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

It takes more than money to attract the kind of players you're talking about, because players like that will get the money wherever they go. The franchise has to offer them something more. Had they let let Arenas and Jamison walk, the Wizards wouldn't have had anything to offer but money. And when you have nothing to offer but money, you end up with the kind of players who don't want anything more than money. (For more info, see Redskins, Washington (subref: Snyder, Daniel.)

Yep...what he said.

We can't compete with the Lakers mystique or Madison Square Garden for the Lakers. I would say the Miami lifestyle either but who knows.

If Washington and LA/NY are the two teams after a player...we're not getting him. Let alone who is on the roster.

Let's fast forward to '09!
Andre Miller, Marion, Turkoglu, Odom, Maybe David Lee?

Gotta love that cap room that you have noone to give it to!

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

And aren't we pleased that BLATCHE is unhappy, and oh my, that EARL BOYKINS has been given a contract through the end of this season. LOL, LOL.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Gee, I didn't know you had to use the cap space on free agents only. Is there any other way to use the cap space to acquire talent?

You can trade, but in the NBA you have to match salaries. And with no players with salaries to match...you get the idea.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Well,any brain will figure it out who to sign after they saw what the 2007-8 team with out arenas did.It was so clear.They just need to sign a point gard , mason and AJ.There was not need to give all the money for a 7 year old school boy.

Posted by: gtefferra | January 11, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Jose Calderon! We can build around him!

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Wiz are a joke. It happened on Grunfeld's watch.

I will not let these players steal my money any longer. My four 100 Level seats will not be renewed in 2010. I can only handle so much laughing in my face from players I truly backed. I feel let down by this franchise right now.

Posted by: WhoSays | January 11, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

And if this attitude prevails into next season, LEONSIS will get a future steal of a franchise money-wise, and the POLLIN family will have a hand half-filled.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629

There they are. Corey Maggette is looking like a winner now isn't he! Maggette and Baron Davis...there we go!"

Dang, stoudamire was available that year!

salim stoudamire, that is.

looking at that list, you see clearly why so few teams actually win Rings. Talent everywhere, true franchise players almost non-existent. Signing Gil and Aj was the correct move, that didnt work out

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is a STIFF and for sure...one of the BUZzards....poster boys for HOPELESSNESS

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | January 11, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Is Juwan Howard a FA this summer?

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Gee, I didn't know you had to use the cap space on free agents only. Is there any other way to use the cap space to acquire talent?

You can trade, but in the NBA you have to match salaries. And with no players with salaries to match...you get the idea.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:15 PM


My understanding is that when you're significantly under the cap you can trade for players without worrying about matching contracts, correct?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

DeJuan Blair supporters = wookin' pa nub

That ship has sailed. Let it go.

Posted by: jcbcmb68 | January 11, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"They just need to sign a point gard , mason and AJ."

And then sit back and watch the titles roll in!

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Is Juwan Howard a FA this summer?

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:19

Don't know, but I hear Robert Pack is available!

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

NICK YOUNG has offensive game, but is only just now learning a team concept on that end. And his defense is no better than BOYKINS or FOYE...

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:11 PM

Nick Young plays better defense than Earl Boykins simply because he moves his feet well and uses his length.

Earl gets lost on screen and rolls quite a bit if you haven't noticed.

Posted by: elfreako | January 11, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"My understanding is that when you're significantly under the cap you can trade for players without worrying about matching contracts, correct?"

Sure. But why would a team that had a franchise-changing star player under contract trade him for, literally, nothing at all?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

GRUNFELD IS AN IDIOT ...WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS CARON BUTLER AND HIS TIMID GAME? DUDE HAS ALL THE SKILLS TO BE DOMINATE INSTEAD HE IS PASSIVE , AND NOW WHINES ABOUT WANTIN TOT GO TO A CONTENDER

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | January 11, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

"My understanding is that when you're significantly under the cap you can trade for players without worrying about matching contracts, correct?"

Sure. But why would a team that had a franchise-changing star player under contract trade him for, literally, nothing at all?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:21 PM

Who said for nothing at all?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Grunfeld trade Ray Allen and Flip Murray for Gary Payton's expiring contract? Maybe being active before the trade deadline isn't such a good thing.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 11, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

My understanding is that when you're significantly under the cap you can trade for players without worrying about matching contracts, correct?

I don't know. I thought salaries had to match, but if they don't then that means you're trying to trade nothing for high salaries. If a team is trading a high salary...that means they want to dump someone a la Zach Randolph, McGrady, Gil, or the Knicks trying to get cap room and who do you want from them besides Lee?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"Who said for nothing at all?

Given what the Wizards would have had left to offer in trade after letting Arenas and Jamison walk, any combo of players and cap space would have amounted to that, essentially.

But if it makes you feel any better:

Why would a team that had a franchise-changing star player under contract trade him for any combo of Haywood, Stevenson, Butler, Songaila, Blatche, or Thomas?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Jose Calderon! We can build around him!

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

From what I've see of him around the league, I would say that's a good place to start. But we need cap room first. If McGEE and BLATCHE want out because of all that's going on, they are both controlled. I would trade them for pieces that mesh with WOOD, TWAN, MM, and CB. Just no more one-dimensional players like YOUNG, FOYE or BOYKINS. We have to have players for both ends of the court. Have to start by signing WOOD and MM. I'm not sure the train-wreck of a financial situation on the WIZARDS will allow that unless of course ARENAS' contract is wiped-off the books by court action and/or the league, or bought out by LEONSIS, lump-sum.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Who said for nothing at all?

Cap room is nothing at all when it comes to a franchise player. That's like trading Wade for cap room.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

That should read:

But if it makes you feel any better:

Why would a team that had a franchise-changing star player under contract trade him for any combo of Haywood, Stevenson, Butler, Songaila, Blatche, or Thomas and cap space?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

From what I've see of him around the league, I would say that's a good place to start. But we need cap room first. If McGEE and BLATCHE want out because of all that's going on, they are both controlled. I would trade them for pieces that mesh with WOOD, TWAN, MM, and CB. Just no more one-dimensional players like YOUNG, FOYE or BOYKINS. We have to have players for both ends of the court. Have to start by signing WOOD and MM. I'm not sure the train-wreck of a financial situation on the WIZARDS will allow that unless of course ARENAS' contract is wiped-off the books by court action and/or the league, or bought out by LEONSIS, lump-sum.

You lost me when you considered Jose Calderon as a two way player. =\

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

My understanding is that when you're significantly under the cap you can trade for players without worrying about matching contracts, correct?

I don't know. I thought salaries had to match, but if they don't then that means you're trying to trade nothing for high salaries. If a team is trading a high salary...that means they want to dump someone a la Zach Randolph, McGrady, Gil, or the Knicks trying to get cap room and who do you want from them besides Lee?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:26 P

It's all part of the negotiation, right?

Maybe you take on a big-salary guy couple years remaining on his deal if you get a player (e.g., Lee) you like. My point is you don't have to just spend money foolishly on weak free agents.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Thank your Mr. Blatche. Just what the team needs right now.

Looking ahead, here's a photo of three of the five starters for the 2010-11 Washington Wizards: Front Line.

What a mess.

Posted by: SteveMG | January 11, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Trade Brenda to Portland for Oden/Pendergraph/Cunningam

Privately they think Oden is a bust and believe what they need is a defensive minded C. Maybe willing to part with 2 young PFs and Oden's deal (which only has 2 yrs left) in order to get their "missing piece"

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Why would a team that had a franchise-changing star player under contract trade him for any combo of Haywood, Stevenson, Butler, Songaila, Blatche, or Thomas and cap space?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:30 PM

Ask Memphis. They gave away Pau Gasol for esentially Kwame and Crit, correct?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

"My point is you don't have to just spend money foolishly on weak free agents."

Not when you can spend it foolishly on weak trades.

It all comes down to this: Would the players the Wizards could have gotten with that cap space have been better than a healthy Jamison and Arenas? There's absolutely no reason to think that David Lee and Jared Jeffries (the player that the Knicks almost certainly would have insisted on dumping in your proposed deal) would have been any better.

I said at the time that Grunfeld should at least consider breaking up the big 3 and start reconstructing the team. but I did so with an eye towards a measured rebuilding plan. What you're suggesting is more like pissing money down a different hole than the one they were already pissing money down.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

And the answer is simple. I don't think his basketball is worth a max contract. I never did, and I still don't. So when we gave him a max-contract it changed my perception of him - it's not personally, still only business.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Alright, a right thinking individual. Thank you for not laying down for all this crap being shoveled by the organization - ARENAS is all this, all that. GA just isn't a leader in the terms that a max-type contract requires. I like GA too, but a fun-loving guy should not be asked to handle the level of responsibility that 111 million entails.

I don't blame GIL. If they threw 111 at me I'd take it, and deal with it as best I could, just like he's done. It's ownership's and management's responsibilities to determine what's best for the team, not GA. They were all asleep at the switch.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

How did that work out?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse


How HAS it worked out??

There were PLENTY of reasons to pass on re-signing Gil and AJ, and I wasn't the only one who thought so.

Do you realize how ludicrous it is for you to sit here and defend Ernie's moves given what has become of the Wizards??

All of the potential risks associated with re-signing Gil and AJ have played out and then some.

Gil has NOT been healthy.

The team's defense has NOT improved one iota.

The team has NOT advanced in the playoffs.

Instead the team is staring down last place, over the cap, and our max-guy is not even playing B-ball b/c he has shown himself to be every bit the goofball distraction that everyone knew that he was.

Continuing this conversation with you is ridiculous considering was a total failure this project has turned out to be.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Of the past champs:

Spurs were lucky to be able to draft Duncan
Celtics gambled big time and won by getting that team together
Lakers were super smart to trade for Kobe (and lucky to be the Lakers and attract Shaq)
Heat were lucky to draft Wade (who helped attract Shaq)
Bulls were lucky to get a guy named Jordan (although 2 other teams passed on him)
Detroit built two seperate teams with just good players.

So basically, half the teams were lucky because they got the guy by accident in the draft - which the case will be if Cleveland ever wins a championship.

Of course they had to put the right pieces around them, but do you think the spurs win any of those championships without Duncan? the Bulls win any without Jordan?

But here's the thing: Every single team EXCEPT the bulls had a dominant center. Maybe not the "best" center in the league, but they had a Shaq, Gasol, Olojuwan, Duncan (and Robinson), Wallace, garnett, Laimbeer, Kareem or Parrish/McHale.

I know several great Centers that didn't get a championship, but the only contending team that couls start a Haywood (unless he starts dropping 15/15 every other game) is a Jordan Bulls team, except at least they had guys that could throw down a real foul (and usually 2-3 of them)

the point being? Let's get us a real center.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

"Ask Memphis. They gave away Pau Gasol for esentially Kwame and Crit, correct?"

No, not correct.

A) The Grizzlies were in the process of going up for sale (a move since since rescinded) and was thus looking to shed contracts. That's a unique situation that was not paralleled by any other teams the year Jamison and Arenas were FAs.

(B) They also got the draft rights to Marc Gasol, a top ranked foreign big man who, in his second year, is averaging a double-double and getting lots of talk about being an All-Star.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Just when I think this kid gets it, he reverts back to 'Kwame-Lite'. Paying guys millions and have to beg them to play/practice/rehab. I say load up the boat/bus/plane, etc. with every pro player that fits that description and one-way their @$$ outta town. Can't keep coddling well paid grown men to give a damn, to live up to their end of the bargain. Enough already...

Posted by: kahlua87 | January 11, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

You lost me when you considered Jose Calderon as a two way player. =\

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Me too actually, but I like CALDERON.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Man up Wizards!Boo hoo..you have some adversity when all you want to do is have fun..don't we all. Welcome to this thing called life.

Posted by: ptp23 | January 11, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

wiz fans and STH, i feel your pain. as a caps season ticket holder for a long time, there were certainly some lean years. but take heart, ted leonsis will not let you down! he will not tolerate this behavior and will do what it takes to bring a winner and a team you can be proud of.

even when the caps sucked bad before and after the lockout, you felt like ted had a plan and that they were trying to get better long term. you didnt feel like a chump who was getting taken advantage of. ted will do right by you guys. stay patient.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | January 11, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm so depressed about the Wiz lately, but this comment made me laugh. "Crap-Foot."

Posted by: herb6 | January 11, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Is that anything like LeBRON's 'crap-drivel'? Oh wait, that 'crab-dribble', sorry.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

A number of the young players including NY and AB have been influenced (and I think negatively) by the conduct and attitude that they've seen from Arenas for many years. When your best and highest paid player is not a leader and is coddled by management, it becomes inevitable that the inmates will start running the asymlum. Even with solid core professional like AJ, Butler, Haywood, Miller, and Oberto, there are too many immature players who don't come to play ever night. Blatche was a key to the Friday night win and then didn't bother to show up yesterday....I'm sure Flip is sending out a message that he won't accept poor effort or attitude.

After seeing the Wiz play very well against two pretty good teams over the weekend, it would be a good idea to see how the team does over the next few weeks. The deals being offered now will only improve as the trade deadline gets closer and teams become more desperate for that final piece inth epize.

Posted by: wizfan89 | January 11, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"My point is you don't have to just spend money foolishly on weak free agents."

Not when you can spend it foolishly on weak trades.

It all comes down to this: Would the players the Wizards could have gotten with that cap space have been better than a healthy Jamison and Arenas? There's absolutely no reason to think that David Lee and Jared Jeffries (the player that the Knicks almost certainly would have insisted on dumping in your proposed deal) would have been any better.

I said at the time that Grunfeld should at least consider breaking up the big 3 and start reconstructing the team. but I did so with an eye towards a measured rebuilding plan. What you're suggesting is more like pissing money down a different hole than the one they were already pissing money down.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:40 PM

No, what I'm suggesting is not putting big, long-term money on two sixth men, which Jamison and Arenas are. The Wizards are throwing money away on those two.
The expectations (and salaries) of, to use your example, a Jeffries and Lee are vastly different from that of the Big 3.
The Wizards are drowning in [urine] as it stands.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Seven-day Dray just oozes with a sense of entitlement, yet having done absolutely zero over the course of his career. Skinny, but doughy; too weak to guard 4s and not quick enough to play 3s. Not even an above avg. shooter for a guy who seems to think he's a perimeter threat. Wouldn't miss him at all if he's gone for good.

Posted by: alvin4 | January 11, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"Ask Memphis. They gave away Pau Gasol for esentially Kwame and Crit, correct?"

No, not correct.

A) The Grizzlies were in the process of going up for sale (a move since since rescinded) and was thus looking to shed contracts. That's a unique situation that was not paralleled by any other teams the year Jamison and Arenas were FAs.

(B) They also got the draft rights to Marc Gasol, a top ranked foreign big man who, in his second year, is averaging a double-double and getting lots of talk about being an All-Star.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:43 PM

Your question didn't limit the conversation to teams that were not in "unique" situations or the year GA and Jamison were free agents. For that matter, every team probably considers their situation unique when they have to move a franchise player.

Marc Gasol isn't as good as Pau Gasol. That was a one-sided trade in terms of talent no matter how you look at it.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is a STIFF and for sure...one of the BUZzards....poster boys for HOPELESSNESS

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | January 11, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"Mr. CHRISTIAN, bring that man aft."

WILLIAM BLIGH

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Andrey just wanted the sweet smell of success. Continue to work hard and both confidence and playing time will come naturally. Follow Twanns lead and ingnore the sideroom drama. Trade Javaris and Gil for Okafor is they will have him. Ok can be the true power forward we lack. Doubt anyone will take Gil now anyway so we just have to hope he matures and the league allows him to play again. Time to bring in Tony Dungy to do for Gil's head what he did for Michael Vick. At least take responsibility and be mature about your business.

Posted by: liveride | January 11, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Have to start by signing WOOD and MM.
SDMxxxx

If we can sign haywood to a 3 yr contract for under $5 mil/yr...then do it. But we all know he is going to get a $35 - 40 mil contract...either $7-8/mil over 5 yrs or 9 for 4.

I like Miller, too, but he isn't on the court enough to make want to give him fat cash. He has good skills, though, to add to a contender, so he will get paid this year.

If we resign these guys, won't we all be complaining that we "tied up cap space" to a "guy on crutches" and a big man "on the wrong side of 30?"

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Its Why I put no stock in NBA Basketball.... the league is a joke. Don't worry when Uncle Ted takes over, this roster will be overhauled and his model will instituted. This is a man with some patience to do it right. These Players dont play for the love of the game.... it's the love of the payday! Ask a player today, would they play for 100K or less.... A lot would not!

Posted by: rvanags | January 11, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

the point being? Let's get us a real center.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

That doesn't seem to be in the balls. Look where we picked last year. This year still appears headed for the top ten, but you're not gonna' get a HIBBERT or THABEET that way.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Lee will be getting a contract in the $70-90 million realm. Max years and over $10 million a year.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I was watching WP Live on CSN the other day, and Ivan Carter said that (paraphrasing) for all you racists out there that use the code word "thug", which is code for you know what ... (presumably the n-word).

Anyway, I thought I'd mention this because I think people should be aware of comments like that and make their own decisions about them.

Personally, I think it was a moronic and illogical thing to say. In addition, it's race bating - why should we label any person that calls Gil a "thug" a racist? It's ridiculous. And presumably he's referring only to non-black people as we generally don't call a person racist for saying adverse things re his own race.

I've always thought Ivan Carter is terrible as host of WP Live - just painful to watch. Please get rid of this guy - he's horrific.

Posted by: BulletsFan1 | January 11, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

If we resign these guys, won't we all be complaining that we "tied up cap space" to a "guy on crutches" and a big man "on the wrong side of 30?"

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

You wouldn't hear it from me.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I've always thought Ivan Carter is terrible as host of WP Live - just painful to watch. Please get rid of this guy - he's horrific.

Posted by: BulletsFan1 | January 11, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

The idea is to stir the pot, get on-line hits, sell newspapers, and bring in advertising isn't it? Or is there another reason for a reporter's existance?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I watched Brandon Bass go strong for 2 offensive rebounds and then a put back against the Wiz the other night. Yeah, I know we came back and played well for once and beat his team, but the way he went after the ball with serious attitude not to be denied while Blatche stood and watched made me sick. I'm not saying go trade for Bass, I'm just reminded of the attitude of winners like him in this League.
Soft does not fully describe Blatch. He changes his number to 7 as in all day, all week effort and yet he remains the same lazy, underachieving talk is cheap loser we have grown to cheer for on occaison because we got who we got. The Arenas situation has changed all that for good fans of the Wiz. We no longer will support highly paid idiots like him any longer.

I will not go to a game until Grunfeld is fired when Leonsid takes over and cleans house. As for Flip, one and done is fine with me. He is the same re-tread white Coach that has become more of a stereotype in this League than the Thugs who play it.

Mark Jackson, where are you? Speak up and get your ass to DC and get it done!

Posted by: jshavatt | January 11, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

the point being? Let's get us a real center.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

That doesn't seem to be in the balls. Look where we picked last year. This year still appears headed for the top ten, but you're not gonna' get a HIBBERT or THABEET that way.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse


I know... probably not this year, but thats why I have been saying we have to stock up on long term 1st round picks if we make any trades. A 2014 pick looks like a throwaway now, but can really help when that time comes.

We might not be able to get Bosh (or maybe want to) but I think a guy like Lee might come for the right money and if he sees other guys working hard. he may really be a PF, but he is starting a C and dominating it.

Love to get Amare or maybe somehow make a trade for one of the Gasol's (I know - dreaming).

Wait, here's an idea...play the SnoT out of McGee and see if he is worth a damn.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

the point being? Let's get us a real center.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse


It doesn't even have to be a center.

Let's just get a legitimate guy who can play in the post on both sides of the floor.

Someone you can give the ball to and run an offense through if you need to. Someone who has a couple moves down low and can get some high % shots.

Someone on the defensive end who can rebound consistently.

The failure of the Ernie's philosophy is that he thinks you can build a winner with excellent perimeter players and patch-work interior guys.

His last Big 3 with the Bucks - Cassell, Allen and Robinson - were more talented than our Big 3 and they couldn't even get to a championship.

Not even LeBron, for all his talent, can seem to get to a Finals without someone in the post he can play off of.

Kobe couldn't get it done until Gasol came along.

I don't why anyone in this town ever thought that Gil, Caron and AJ playing at 100% would ever be able to with the patchwork of so-so "big" men that the Wiz have been assembling.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Love to get Amare or maybe somehow make a trade for one of the Gasol's (I know - dreaming).

Wait, here's an idea...play the SnoT out of McGee and see if he is worth a damn.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse


There are rumors that Minny is open to trading Al Jefferson.

I've been saying all day that if Ernie want to redeem a shred of his credibility as a GM, he should make it happen.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz should void Blatche contract by close of business tonight!

the only thing I see out of all of this is the Wiz have been in disarray for years. now we all see how an organization that undoubtedly has the offensive fire power to compete with everyone in the league, repeatedly not play tougher defense. they had no discipline from day one.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but now we see that Ernie G in some ways unmined Eddie J. it's typical pro sports. the players have more power than the coaches.

Posted by: oknow1 | January 11, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

After seeing the Wiz play very well against two pretty good teams over the weekend, it would be a good idea to see how the team does over the next few weeks. The deals being offered now will only improve as the trade deadline gets closer and teams become more desperate for that final piece inth epize.

Posted by: wizfan89 | January 11, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

I agree wholeheartedly with this analysis, although the latest news surely doesn't support it. Blatche could have been a difference-maker on Sunday but he hardly showed up. Hopefully Flip's discipline will help him get back to his "7-day" mentality. But there's so many distractions right now, I'm not so hopeful.

Posted by: zinger1 | January 11, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

It is called KARMA, because when you don't back the best coach(EJ) you had in the last ten years of this sorry excuse for a pro basketball franchise then you get what you deserve i've said it once and i'll say it again because all the skeletons are comming out of the closet, EG allowed some of the players on this team to undermine Eddie Jordan(Gil, Andray, and Brenda)and that had a negative effect on the younger players on this team,it's a wonder EJ won as much as he did while he was here, and now The Serial Skirt Chaser is back to his old underachieving self what's that old saying "a leopard never changes it's spot's" or "you can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a"........................ oh never mind, so what's the over and under on Flip? better yet when will they fire EG? This is the biggest clusterf&*k i've ever seen and it all falls at the feet of EG for not supporting his head coach(EJ) at that time instead his plan has all but backfired in his lying face, couldn't happen to a nicer person and i'm sure Flip has privately told him "I want out of this hell hole; what have you gotten me into" Some advice to Mr.Leonsis and the Pollin family get Avery Johnson on the phone ASAP!! Good Luck!

Posted by: dargregmag | January 11, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Wow, this franchise if falling apart at the seams. Instead of everything falling into place for once, you got AJ hurt to start the year, MM hurt most of the year, Foye getting misused most of the year, Blatche reverting back to the player he has been, NY still on cruise control etc etc etc... Hell, if MM stays healthy last night we might win that game and attitudes start to change, but that is not in the cards. It's over....this franchise is in a world of hurt now thx to the guy they gave the most money.

What was becoming clear is that without Arenas they were a better "team". Maybe not as talented, but still a better team.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

p1funk...not sure Al Jefferson is gonna be the difference maker, but he is an improvement.

We tried to get that dominant Center with our one chance (Kwame). It seems obvious now that you draft Pau gasol, but....

hey at least we didn't draft Diop!

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Al Jefferson is so good the Twolves are 8-30. Let's throw as much money as it takes his way!

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

And to support my mention of stocking up on future 1st round picks...we traded Laron Profit and the 2005 1st rounder to Cleveland. Even though we would have picked somewhere in the high teens that year, guess who we could have picked up?

David Lee (picked #30)

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

@Dargreg,

You're are both funny and ridiculous. If EJ is so good, why are the Sixers about as bad as us. And, for the last time, as you bash EG and give no credit to him for assembling a team with 3 all-stars, which most coaches could get to the playoffs, you give all credit to EJ. Stupid and lame and tired.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Lee will be getting a contract in the $70-90 million realm. Max years and over $10 million a year.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:59 PM

You mean that's your best guess, no?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

wiz just need that tranfusion of new blood...of the ownership kind...once ted l takes over I'm thinking he's going to make a team in the image of the caps. need a new gm for that though. eg probably in over his head in that area. how long did it take to build the caps into the juggernaut they are now? bb may take a little longer, but it's doable...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | January 11, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Gilby's moronic behavior is infectious among his teammates.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 11, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

How HAS it worked out??

There were PLENTY of reasons to pass on re-signing Gil and AJ, and I wasn't the only one who thought so.

Do you realize how ludicrous it is for you to sit here and defend Ernie's moves given what has become of the Wizards??

Yeah it hasn't worked out. When the Wizards were a 45 win team in the playoffs with an improving Butler and a double-double machine letting them walk for nothing and hoping something would work out.

I asked you for a plan but you don't have one. Teams don't let two all-stars walk for no compensation and expect to get better. It would have been 3 years like last season and unlike other sports....the worst record doesn't guarantee the first pick. (Which is a major reason Leonsis can't "save" the Wizards. It's luck of the ping pong balls.)

So instead of Jamison you can end up with Yi or Corey Brewer or Mike Conley. It's easier to take a group that has shown it can win and augment the talent instead of blowing it up and praying it ends up better.

Let alone the business side. Who wants to come see Antonio Daniels, Stevenson, Butler, Songalia and Haywood play?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

with leonsis it's all about attitude...atmosphere. a few years ago when he blew up the caps people were squealing about losing jagr and the like. he stuck to his guns, and now the caps look pretty good. this is what he brings to the table. modern-day business ethics, and a touch of class. not talking bad about pollin, because he was a very classy man. the business side of ownership wasn't his strong suit. I'll drink the leonsis kool-aide at this point based on what he has shown up to now...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | January 11, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

with leonsis it's all about attitude...atmosphere. a few years ago when he blew up the caps people were squealing about losing jagr and the like. he stuck to his guns, and now the caps look pretty good. this is what he brings to the table. modern-day business ethics, and a touch of class. not talking bad about pollin, because he was a very classy man. the business side of ownership wasn't his strong suit. I'll drink the leonsis kool-aide at this point based on what he has shown up to now...

A touch of class? Punching a fan in the face is a touch of class? People wouldn't be saying much if he didn't land Ovechkin.

Ted Leonsis is German for Jesus.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

on a business note...present day wiz have certain undesirable players, good or bad business? let's see the caps right now are one of the top teams in their league, based on sound business acumen. maybe i'm wrong about class, but this is the business of sports. who has he punched lately? does it matter?

Posted by: joerutgens72 | January 11, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Blatche... another great draft choice of Grunfeld...
Lost in Transition

Posted by: horace1 | January 11, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Al Jefferson is so good the Twolves are 8-30. Let's throw as much money as it takes his way!

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse


You have no problem throwing the $$ at Gilbert.

What's the Wiz record again?

Seriously, the way you blindly defend Gilbert Arenas is mind-boggling.

Are you Gil's dad, or something?

You have to be some kind of relative, the way your universe hinges on sticking up for Arenas the way you do.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:30 PM | Report abuse

"Let Gil and AJ walk 2 years ago for what?"

++++++++++++++++++

Cap flexibility.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:36 PM
_________________________________________

LeBron is not walking through that door. DWade is not walking through that door. [fill in the blank of anyone particularly good] is not walking through that door.

Posted by: gbooksdc | January 11, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

You have to be some kind of relative, the way your universe hinges on sticking up for Arenas the way you do.

Posted by: p1funk

I'm sorry, I thought the subject was potential acquisitions now that Arenas is done. Please note my post had nothing to do with Arenas, and spoke more to the potential fool's gold of signing Jefferson to a boatload of cash

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse


Go on, buddy, you're on a roll.

Seriously, the emperor has clothes, and you're one piece away from re-assembling humpty-dumpty.

For your next act, you're gonna tell us why Vinny Cerratto was the best thing to ever happen to the Redskins.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

"Let Gil and AJ walk 2 years ago for what?"

++++++++++++++++++

Cap flexibility.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 2:36 PM
_________________________________________

LeBron is not walking through that door. DWade is not walking through that door. [fill in the blank of anyone particularly good] is not walking through that door.

Posted by: gbooksdc | January 11, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse


That's exactly right.

With $160 mill tied up on Gil and AJ, absolutely no one is walking through that door.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Ovie, Semin, Backstrom...all aquired by sucking for a long time and getting 1st round picks correct?

Will that be Ted's business plan for the Wizards too?

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

"With $160 mill tied up on Gil and AJ, absolutely no one is walking through that door.

Posted by: p1funk"

what if Gil's deal is voided? You think we have a chance to land Lebron? DWade?

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, I thought the subject was potential acquisitions now that Arenas is done. Please note my post had nothing to do with Arenas, and spoke more to the potential fool's gold of signing Jefferson to a boatload of cash

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse


Al Jefferson is on a 5-year $65mill contract that runs through 2013.

That's alot less per year than we're giving to Gil.

For a 25 year-old PF/C who dominates the paint and has 20-10 potential, I'll pay that contract out for a couple years and see where things go.

Pair him up with a defense-oriented center like JaVale McGee...

...you're telling me that you don't like that potential?

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

"With $160 mill tied up on Gil and AJ, absolutely no one is walking through that door.

Posted by: p1funk"

what if Gil's deal is voided? You think we have a chance to land Lebron? DWade?

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse


No. I guess there is no chance. None. There never was or ever will be.

We have no chance of ever signing any free agents except Gilbert Arenas and Antwan Jamison.

I suppose that is our lot in life.

Let's just stick with the "plan" for the rest of our lives and hope to God that the Big 3 get healthy...

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

The Wizzards need to clean house with these primadonas. Players are paid a lot of money to play basketball. For this money, they need to be outstanding as an athelete, be disciplined, organized, be a leader and play as a coheseive team. If they can't cut the mustard, it is time for them to leave. There is no place in professional sports for individuals who are selfish, immature and lack discipline. Talent and class or lack of it will show every time.

Posted by: Listening2 | January 11, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

I think during Gil's suspension he can really benefit the team by eating a lot of fiber and slipping into the opposing team's locker room in search of athletic footwear...

Posted by: randysbailin | January 11, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

"For a 25 year-old PF/C who dominates the paint and has 20-10 potential, I'll pay that contract out for a couple years and see where things go.

Pair him up with a defense-oriented center like JaVale McGee...

...you're telling me that you don't like that potential?"

I mentioned earlier....shouldnt it set off a red flag that Minny doesnt want him? He's known as a black hole, a guy who never passes and causes the offense to grind to a complete halt. Doesnt that sound familiar?

I am not saying dont get him if there's the chance, I'm saying I bet there are people on a twolves blog who cant wait to move him because he's a "metawn" or whatever.

of course, earlier i said we'd have to fleece fellow moronic teams to get franchise player since none would sign here- so maybe this would be a case of it

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

rphilli721: You're correct i am funny and ridiculous and i'm also on point where EJ and EG are concerned and by the way stop bringing up Philly when when i talk about EJ one has nothing to do with the other, had EG backed Jordan(like a smart gm would have done)then some of these issues that are plaguing this franchise now likely would not have happened Jordan and his staff did a great job of coaching the players that Grunfeld saddled him with, but Grunfeld allowed certain players to undermine Jordan and his authority and now it has backfired big time and has come back to haunt Flip Saunders who is being played like a chump(way to go Ernie!) a perfect example of what i mean occured here in Atlanta when Josh Smith and Josh Childress challenged head coach Mike Woodson's authority over his coaching style but instead of the Gm undermining Woodson they told Childress to go to Europe and told Smith, "Mike is the HEAD COACH Period"! that stopped all the bullsh#t right then and there and if you look at the league standings you can see the result!! So i don't want to hear your weak azz response to my post on this blog, bottom line i was right, Ernie blew it when he fired Jordan the proof; look at their won-lost record since Jordan has left, and Flip has a better squad and a deeper bench, i rest my case.

Posted by: dargregmag | January 11, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards are not the only team made up of a bunch of thugs.
The whole world of pro basketball is inhabited by guys who couldn't get another job if their lives depended on it.
They are there because of their size, their ability to run, their ability to make baskets. They make millions upon millions of dollars and give themselves the right to anything, whatever, whenever they want to. They are thugs, for the most part, understanding that the "law" does NOT apply to them.
They can carry guns, inpregnate innumerable women, desert their families, let down their fans who appreciate their natural talent, and laugh about it.
Which is exactly why I have decided to stop watching these freaks. It is no fun watching people who have sold out every single decent human value making baskets.

Posted by: cms1 | January 11, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

I mentioned earlier....shouldnt it set off a red flag that Minny doesnt want him? He's known as a black hole, a guy who never passes and causes the offense to grind to a complete halt. Doesnt that sound familiar?

I am not saying dont get him if there's the chance, I'm saying I bet there are people on a twolves blog who cant wait to move him because he's a "metawn" or whatever.

of course, earlier i said we'd have to fleece fellow moronic teams to get franchise player since none would sign here- so maybe this would be a case of it

Posted by: divi3 | January 11, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse


Apparently Minny doesn't think the paint is big enough for KLove and Al Jefferson to co-exist.

I guess they figure that if they are going to develop one, they're going to have to sacrifice the other.

I don't think Al Jefferson is the next Tim Duncan, but at 25 years old, why not take a chance? It's not like we're talking about Kwame Brown. And we can reassess things in 2-3 years.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

NBA is the league of thugs.

Wizards are the epitome of the NBA.

Get new ownership, gut the team, and start-over (ala Capitals)...

or dump the team.

Posted by: AWWNats | January 11, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

caps picks were aquired by trading overpaid, former superstar players...aquired in the hope of winning now...as opposed to using picks wisely in the first place. the former ownership tried that road with not much success. the same ownership that built the present day wiz. the new ownership of the caps saw the error in those ways and aquired the picks used to draft present superstars...along with the picks they had for sucking with the aforementioned former superstars. it's a business model that appears to have worked. so it might be ugly for a while...it's pretty ugly now...but if it worked before, who's to say it wouldn't work in the case of the wiz...some of you folks I'm sure...some of you same folks who love the rockin' the red caps...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | January 11, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

...and to continue the dumping on EG, I'd like to revive the question:

What on God's green earth was Fabricio Oberto supposed to add to this team?

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Just from a basketball standpoint, I thought it was silly to sign Arenas for $111 million. He's a very good but not great player, and definitely not a franchise player--Gil is not a guy you want eating up your cap space. I've always felt that way. A good but not a great point guard. Lousy defense. Not much of a team leader. Prone to injury. Old knees. Much of this was known at the time of the contract signing, and subsequent events have merely reinforced the stupidity of the signing. He is losing his quickness, which is why his shooting percentage will never be up to franchise player levels. It will only get worse with age.

The idea behind signing Gil was to try to get the Wiz to respectability--not to win big.

It is like trying for a C in school. Sometimes you get an F when you try to settle for those C's.

We have all seen the horrors of gun violence in DC. I would like to see a Wiz statement from the Pollin family saying that Gil will never play a minute for the team again, and cite Abe's passion for a less violent city. It dies not have to be issued soon. We can all wait awhile. But given such a statement, the NBA, Gil and the Wiz would all work together to give this franchise the new day it desperately needs--even if it means buying out some (not all) of Gil's contract. Everyone sacrifices and we have a fresh start.

Antawn is still moveable, even at his age. You hit bottom (or close to it) and go up from there, like the Blazers and the Hawks did. Before long, we have some NBA basketball excitement in DC, and we have a franchise that takes a firm stand against gun violence.

Posted by: EdDC | January 11, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

pfunk1:
oberto adds fouls at a rate of 1 a minute...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | January 11, 2010 7:39 PM | Report abuse

The damage that Arenas has caused is greater than just his contract. While he was threatening to leave DC he made the Wiz re-sign his buddy Debrick (which meant that they didn't have enough money to keep the much better player - Roger Mason), draft his Dad's AAU player Nick Young, and forced the Wiz to resign AJ to an unwieldly contract - good for a couple of years but terrible for the last two. Arenas is a lovable guy - Hey I even love his Gil Zero sneakers - but he's been a horrible influence on the young players and a coach killer.

The team is built around Arenas and it appears that it can't win with him and can't win without him.

Posted by: thinker11 | January 11, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

"Marc Gasol isn't as good as Pau Gasol."Posted by: artiesliver

He wasn't when the trade was made, but have you been watching him play this season? He's taller and a good thirty pounds heavier than his brother, and he's potentially a better defensive player. To me, he's a more natural center than Pau.

The elder Gasol is an offensive marvel who John Thompson once described as having 'every inside move ever invented." Marc lacks that array of moves, but he's a huge man with very good hands and improving footwork. The sort of center that, on a stronger club, could turn it into a title contender.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

The Caps had the good fortune to have the top pick in Ovie's draft year. If the Wizards had the top pick when LeBron or Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan came out, this team wouldn't be in the doo-doo (sorry, little reference to Blatche's shoes) that it's in.

Posted by: randysbailin | January 11, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

was that a joke about Lebron or DWade coming here? The answer is, they would not come here in a million years. Star players want money, a prestige city and fan base, good team mates, chance of a championship. They also want a location that is a no brainer for other free agents to be attracted to. The only free agents we are getting is someone willing to take a chance on a quirk. That is why Gil was perfect for us. That is also why all the uptight choir boys who want to kick Gil out are not thinking ahead. His quirking choice of DC was a godsend to us. maybe the new owners can break that situation. I hope so. Gil, Antawn, and Butler were starting to break that history over the past few years (even though only one was a free agent), which is why I never looked a gift horse in the mouth, as some of the negativity peddlers here constantly did. Think about the situation first folks, before you get ready to ship off stars. Just because we have cap space does not mean people will come here in free agency, until we build a positive atmosphere, and that includes a positive fan base.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | January 11, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards got caught with their pants/guns down. You have to wonder how much else is going on around this league that never surfaces.

Posted by: wp318676 | January 11, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

"Antawn is still moveable, even at his age."

I think he's more than 'moveable'. I think there's a considerable demand for somebody who can produce like that, night in and night out, without a lot of help from his teammates.

To me, your evaluation of Jamison is typical of the distorted perspective many Wiz fans have towards their own players. And inflated view of young players like Blatche and Young, who at best will become mediocre NBA players.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

"Your question didn't limit the conversation to teams that were not in "unique" situations or the year GA and Jamison were free agents. For that matter, every team probably considers their situation unique when they have to move a franchise player.

Oh please. If the Grizzlies hadn't been on the block, the Gasol trade never gets made, so clearly the uniqueness of the situation takes it out of consideration with regard to Arenas and Jamision, because no other team was in that same position, so no other team was going to repeat that deal (never mind wanting to avoid the sh@tstorm of criticism the Grizzlies got). Simple, basic logic.

"Marc Gasol isn't as good as Pau Gasol."

Actually Marc is putting up numbers very similar to what Pau did in his 2nd season. He's scoring 5 fewer points, but then he's playing on a team with more talent offensively than Pau. Everything else is pretty close.

"That was a one-sided trade in terms of talent no matter how you look at it."

Trades of superstars usually are. The Garnett/Jefferson trade was one-sided and Jefferson is a potential all-star. But the fact remains the Grizzlies got a young big man with low post skills and all-star potential The Wizards didn't have one of those to trade, and the stuff they did have to trade no one wanted.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Since the Wizards' motto is "Character, Commitment and Connection," perhaps they should dump the players that don't have it and get players who do... Out: Arenas, Crittendon, Stevenson and Blache. At least that way the organization maintains some credibility, and the guys who play it straight get rewarded.

Posted by: clocker58 | January 11, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

"I watched Brandon Bass go strong for 2 offensive rebounds and then a put back against the Wiz the other night. Yeah, I know we came back and played well for once and beat his team, but the way he went after the ball with serious attitude not to be denied while Blatche stood and watched made me sick."

Bass was a guy I really would have liked the Wiz to get a hold of when he was a FA last summer. He's tough, physical, with a fast motor and some decent offensive skills. There's been some thought that he might be available in trade, because he's been buried on the bench behind Ryan Andersen. If so, he's a guy Grunfeld should look at.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Considering that many players have asked to be traded maybe it's best to drop the "Commitment" part.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 11, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

one important thing about DC I need to bring up regarding free agents. DC does have one thing going for it. I used to think it was corny when the announcer said - the most powerful city in the WORLD! But actually, that is the one thing. Lebron was ok in a working class low-prestige town because he already had a hometown fan base in Cleveland. But there is not a lot of draw for free agents to backwater towns (I won't name them to avoid offending anyone). Football and baseball also have a lot of low prestige towns, and in fact, some players fit in well in that atmosphere. But face it, most players want to be a yankee, or red sock, or cub.

A player capturing the heart of DC captures the heart of a very large number of ultra-powerful and ultra-important Americans. Gil was noticing that, I believe. Lebron is too self asorbed to ever relaize that. So are many other players are not going to realize that. But being a star and building a winner in DC actually is a high prestige situation. In that regard, we have a much better "potential" draw than the middle-America franchises, if somehow we can build the prestige record, step by step. This current year knocked us back many steps, and the treatment of Gil in the past few weeks for something that should have just been an internal investigation and carefully determined limited punishment is tarnishing the city even more. It is NOT just what Gil has done, it is the out-of-control reaction by OTHERS that is making this mess. Read all the links - several prominant writers are seeing the other side now and making some good points.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | January 11, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

"I think he's more than 'moveable'. I think there's a considerable demand for somebody who can produce like that, night in and night out, without a lot of help from his teammates."

The Cavs are dying to get Jamison. A deal hasn't been (and may not be) made, because (A) Teams are generally hesitant to make trades that will help major rivals (Wiz fans will drop a brick if Jamison helps Lebron win a title) (B) the Cavs don't have all that much that's attractive in a deal beyond Ilgauskas's expiring contract. Hickson is a nice young player, but he's probably not a star in the making. And beyond Lebron, Shaq, and maybe Mo Williams (who they aren't giving up) the Cavs roster isn't esp. impressive. And their draft picks won't be worth much.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

"A player capturing the heart of DC captures the heart of a very large number of ultra-powerful and ultra-important Americans."

Not really. Washington is a transient city. A sizable portion of the people who actually live and work here weren't born and didn't grow up here. There are a lot of bball fans, but the ones with money and power, for the most part, are from other cities and root for their native teams, not the Wizards.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

I just hope that, next game, Foye and Blatche don't spray imaginary colognes at each other.

Posted by: mike8 | January 11, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Foye is a pro, Blache is not (yet?).

Posted by: clocker58 | January 11, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

There are a lot of bball fans, but the ones with money and power, for the most part, are from other cities and root for their native teams, not the Wizards.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

But when the President of the World comes to the Wizzie Center-----that's a big deal regardless who he's rooting for. It will probbly be a while before he's back after this gun episode.
Cudda been a real positive thing. Too bad that ship has sailed.

Posted by: VBFan | January 11, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

"I think he's more than 'moveable'. I think there's a considerable demand for somebody who can produce like that, night in and night out, without a lot of help from his teammates.

To me, your evaluation of Jamison is typical of the distorted perspective many Wiz fans have towards their own players. And inflated view of young players like Blatche and Young, who at best will become mediocre NBA players.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse "

The question isn't whether MeTawn is movable.

Teams will take him for a ham sandwich.

The question is what Les BouleS can get in return for MeTawn.

I think a good trade would involve a rugged 4 who can score a little, but play D. Also, the team must surrender an unprotected 1st round pick.

Hopefully that pick will turn into Greg Monroe if he declares for the draft after this season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 11, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Clearly, the problem is a) most of these players have the mental capacity of a 12 year old and b) they aren't being paid NEARLY enough money

Posted by: Curmudgeon10 | January 11, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I might do this trade if Houston gives up their 1st round pick.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfrxdxe

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 11, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

I've been reading this blog for about a year, through one of the worst periods in Wiz history, and one of the recurring themes has been the steadfast belief that the Future is sitting on the bench in the form of the Wiz' impressive young talent, who struggle to get on the court. Seems like every day we get a rant on the importance of one selfish geezer or another taking a seat so the Kidz can get on the court and show their stuff.

A comforting thought. But true? I doubt it.

I remember watching Jason Maxiell of the Pistons destroy the Wiz' front court in a game last season and thinking, geez, they've got the next Charles Barkley. Then I noticed they had a whole crew of such talents, from Rodney Stuckey, who was hailed as the most NBA-ready player in his draft class, to Amir Johnson, a high schooler rated above Blatche in terms of talent, to Aaron Afflalo, a defensive whiz who could hit the three pointer. What a genius Joe Dumars is, I thought, to have stocked his bench with the Future. As the great starting five moved on, he had replacements ready.

Except he didn't. And I suspect Dumars knew he never would.

Jason Maxiell, wow factor and all, wasn't the next Barkley. Amir Johnson wasn't a great inside scorer. The only real potential star in the group (and he's no sure thing) was Stuckey.

The reason they those guys didn't replace the Piston stars was because they weren't actually as good as the Pistons' stars. Amir Johnson would never become Rasheed Wallace, Jason Maxiell would never be Tayshaun Prince, and Stuckey would probably never blossom into Billups.

The upshot: it looks like Detroit may be in for the sort of rebuilding that we're facing in Washington.

What Dumars had on the bench was a bunch of talented young guys with holes in their respective games that would prevent them from ever becoming the sort of stars that drove the Pistons to years of contention.

I'm thinking that's what we have on our bench, too.

Nick Young won't be Butler, Andray Blatche will never be as good as Jamison, Javaris Crittenton will never replace Gilbert, except perhaps as a goofball. Even McGee -- well, we've never had a really good center, so there's not much to replace.

So I'm thinking (I don't know, I'm just thinking) that when we trade Butler and Jamison and let Haywood go, we won't be a better club for it -- not for a long, long time.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

oh boy. I bet Flip Saunders is questioning his decision to come here.

Posted by: tundey | January 11, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I bet you he is not. They gave him $16 million to come here. If he is really regretting it, all he has to do is resign but that obviously won't happen.
Furthermore, he is also responsible for this mess as he hasn't been able to build any type of identity. And now, he is trying to blame the issues on the distractions...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Well thought out. I agree except for the last paragraph.
So I'm thinking (I don't know, I'm just thinking) that when we trade Butler and Jamison and let Haywood go, we won't be a better club for it -- not for a long, long time.

I don't think that it will be when we trade them --- that time is now. We won't be better for a long, long time no matter what.

Posted by: VBFan | January 11, 2010 8:50 PM | Report abuse

I think this forum is sooo funny LOL the same people who are now asking to ign Haywood would be the same that would be bit*ing about how EG overpaid for him if he paid Haywood what he would comand in free agency so why not trade him now and at least get something in return rather than let him walk for nothing because they would never pay him what he would command from other teams LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I think if you put together a team of good guys who play to win, even if they don't win, you could win over this town. The folks who go to games day after day are not the so-called elite, they are blue collar folks who enjoy the sense of community that comes from following the home team, vs. the "elite" who show up at playoff time to see and be seen. The Redskins priced the working class out of their show and they are paying for it, the Caps are pulling in crowds of "regular folks," (when is the last time they needed a celebrity sighting?). Which way will the Wizards go? This town isn't ever going to be L.A. I say, attract and reward the working man with a team that works hard no matter what.

Posted by: clocker58 | January 11, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

"The folks who go to games day after day are not the so-called elite, they are blue collar folks who enjoy the sense of community that comes from following the home team, vs. the "elite" who show up at playoff time to see and be seen. The Redskins priced the working class out of their show and they are paying for it,"

Nice fantasy, Mr. Deeds, but blue-collar folks aren't forking over $$ for tickets. They go on somebody else's dime. And the folks who go to the games aren't actually the folks who call into the radio sports programs or post heavily on this blog.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

And the folks who go to the games aren't actually the folks who call into the radio sports programs or post heavily on this blog.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010


You are wrong on 1 count my family had been seson ticket holders since 1975 but no longer my mom died in july and as soon as her house sells i will be in Lousiana

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Only if that flexibility results in a franchise-altering player. (A) Such players are few and far between and (B) there's little evidence to suggest that Washington would be a desirable destination for such a player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

So if you were the GM and had the choice of offering a one dimensional player who plays no defense, has a badly injured knee $111 million or keeping that money to have felxibility in the future, you would actually elect to go with the former?
Furthermore, in this business, it's not usually just black or white like many of you are professing, there are other options that GM can pursue such as sign and trades deals and cap flexibility which allow other teams to trade their players in exchange of cap space. So the argument that it was Gil or nothing has no merit whatsoever. And even if it did, giving Gil that contract and handicapping the cap for 6 years is borderline insane and it i very bizarre that so many of you supported it.
And all that talk about hindsight is also ridiculous considering GM get paid to have good foresight and EG has failed miserably .

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 9:13 PM | Report abuse

So I'm thinking (I don't know, I'm just thinking) that when we trade Butler and Jamison and let Haywood go, we won't be a better club for it -- not for a long, long time.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Agreed.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 11, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

hindsight is also ridiculous considering GM get paid to have good foresight and EG has failed miserably .

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 9:13 PM
No you are wrong he had a owner/boss who cared too much for the players and could not seperate the buiseness side of running a NBA team that is why this team is so messed up!!

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

"You are wrong on 1 count my family had been seson ticket holders since 1975 but no longer my mom died in july and as soon as her house sells i will be in LousianaPosted by: rnorris6"

Enjoy Chris Paul. but I don't recall seeing you as a heavy poster here.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Like I said when I was still at work. What was your solution? Let them walk and do what?

You have all the answers...I'm waiting.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

My understanding is that when you're significantly under the cap you can trade for players without worrying about matching contracts, correct?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely correct! There are so many other options as well but EG lovers will beg to differ and keep on defending a man that has been an absolute failure. And BTW, the Wiz have the 8th highest payroll in the league so the money was there for him to make it happen and he didn't!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I remember reading about Blatche in HS when I was in college in Upstate NY. He seemed like a punk who thought everyone owed him something then. Looks a few years in The Association hasn't changed that crappy outlook on life.

Good work trying to screw up your opportunity to make millions of dollars over the course of even a mediocre NBA career. That degree from Henninger High School is really going to get you far without it.

Posted by: BurtReynolds | January 11, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Sure. But why would a team that had a franchise-changing star player under contract trade him for, literally, nothing at all?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

And why does it have to be a franchise changing player. What you are doing is conveniently twisting an argument to prove a moot point. Team all over the league have been dealing top players to shed salaries and since the Wiz obviously had no worries about money, they could have acquired a couple of really good players instead of placing all their chips on a one dimensional player with a severely injured knee.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

That degree from Henninger High School is really going to get you far without it.

Posted by: BurtReynolds | January 11, 2010 9:27 PM
Hey Burt my friend you forgot about his 69 million from his prior contract and Burt my friend when you going to get a new movie gig LMFAO

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

So if you were the GM and had the choice of offering a one dimensional player who plays no defense, has a badly injured knee $111 million or keeping that money to have felxibility in the future, you would actually elect to go with the former?

Flexibility to do what? Go back to the lottery? Everybody is talking about flexibility. TO DO WHAT?!?!? 2 years of underwhelming FA's. Do you play for the lottery after going to the playoffs for 4 years? Somebody. You're EG...what is your gameplan?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

You're are both funny and ridiculous. If EJ is so good, why are the Sixers about as bad as us. And, for the last time, as you bash EG and give no credit to him for assembling a team with 3 all-stars, which most coaches could get to the playoffs, you give all credit to EJ. Stupid and lame and tired.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I am not a fan of EJ whatsoever but he has had much more success with much less talent than what Flip currently has. I could care less what his record in Philly is, we are talking about the Wizards!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

We have to say things that make sense. how on earth we have to give up both CB and Aj for an expiring contract? We already have 23 million at the end of the season.The contract of Cb is not difficult. he will have the same value now, at midseason ,end of the season and next year season.AJ is the reason for us to buy ticket.Why do you think people pack the V center?We are not yet ready to buy tickets to see the superstar of the other team.The team need to stay intact until the mid season.If we move Cb,AB and mJ for a point gard and a young PF, we will be able to offer BH 6-7 million.

Posted by: gtefferra | January 11, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

"So if you were the GM and had the choice of offering a one dimensional player who plays no defense, has a badly injured knee $111 million or keeping that money to have felxibility in the future, you would actually elect to go with the former? Furthermore, in this business, it's not usually just black or white like many of you are professing, there are other options that GM can pursue such as sign and trades deals and cap flexibility which allow other teams to trade their players in exchange of cap space. So the argument that it was Gil or nothing has no merit whatsoever. And even if it did, giving Gil that contract and handicapping the cap for 6 years is borderline insane and it i very bizarre that so many of you supported it. And all that talk about hindsight is also ridiculous considering GM get paid to have good foresight and EG has failed miserably .Posted by: Utilityman1"

No offense intended, but this is really just a collection of straw men, distortions of what others have said that suggest the writer doesn't really read posts before he comments on them -- or maybe he doesn't understand them.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Samson151 you could be right but put in context Eddie Jordan when he came here did not have to put up with distractions and had players willing to listen and follow his instruction on the basketball court now tell me did Flip Saunders have that luxury No Way in Hell they fought him at every turn and he finally blew a gasket and called them out LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

I might do this trade if Houston gives up their 1st round pick.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfrxdxe

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 11, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

I would do the deal without a 1st round pick. Landry is a beast in the making and exactly the type of 4 this team has been desperately craving.
As for McGrady, you let his contract expire and resign him to a much cheaper deal. Yes, he won't be the McGrady of old but he will still be a very good option at the 2 or 3.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

"I think a good trade would involve a rugged 4 who can score a little, but play D. Also, the team must surrender an unprotected 1st round pick.
Hopefully that pick will turn into Greg Monroe if he declares for the draft after this season.
Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Hmmm... but what they need is inside scoring.

Greg Monroe is a really good passer. But a prototypical soft player. He'd have to toughen up a whole lot to make a big difference to a team that needs help inside.

Monroe should go to a club that already has a big tough inside presence.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

No you are wrong he had a owner/boss who cared too much for the players and could not seperate the buiseness side of running a NBA team that is why this team is so messed up!!

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, the dying boss on a wheelchair put $160 millions on his lap and forced him to spend it. He also forced him to make the picks he made, he also forced him to trade a 1st round pick for Crittendon, also forced him to sign Blatche and Stevenson to long term contracts, also forced him to condone Gil's destructive behavior, also forced him to throw his coach under the bus, also forced him to sign Oberto, also forced him to turn down an extremely favorable trade that would have brought in Stoudemire........

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

rphilli721: You're correct i am funny and ridiculous and i'm also on point where EJ and EG are concerned and by the way stop bringing up Philly when when i talk about EJ one has nothing to do with the other, had EG backed Jordan(like a smart gm would have done)then some of these issues that are plaguing this franchise now likely would not have happened Jordan and his staff did a great job of coaching the players that Grunfeld saddled him with, but Grunfeld allowed certain players to undermine Jordan and his authority and now it has backfired big time and has come back to haunt Flip Saunders who is being played like a chump(way to go Ernie!) a perfect example of what i mean occured here in Atlanta when Josh Smith and Josh Childress challenged head coach Mike Woodson's authority over his coaching style but instead of the Gm undermining Woodson they told Childress to go to Europe and told Smith, "Mike is the HEAD COACH Period"! that stopped all the bullsh#t right then and there and if you look at the league standings you can see the result!! So i don't want to hear your weak azz response to my post on this blog, bottom line i was right, Ernie blew it when he fired Jordan the proof; look at their won-lost record since Jordan has left, and Flip has a better squad and a deeper bench, i rest my case.

lol...as you say...one has nothing to do with the other - FS record now this year and what EJ's record was a couple of seasons ago. What is relevant is EJ's career winning percentage - 44%. Pretty good, huh? And it continues with another team that is not stocked with 3 all-stars. Has this whole situation shed light on managements treatment of some newly revealed behaviors of the team's star player? Sure. But, to act like Arenas is the first athlete to receive preferential treatment by management is ludicrous as is stating that EG was "saddled" with 3 all-stars. I was on record at the time not liking the contract Arenas received and it looks even worse now. Now, does that make EG a bad GM? He brought this franchise from the depths of hell to 4 playoff appearances. Is he on shaky ground now? Sure. It's the nature of his business. But, be careful of what you wish for bc all things considered he is the best GM this franchise has had since the 70's. If you get rid of him, you better hire someone better. Hiring someone better than EJ on the other hand is/was not so difficult.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, the dying boss on a wheelchair put $160 millions on his lap and forced him to spend it. He also forced him to make the picks he made, he also forced him to trade a 1st round pick for Crittendon, also forced him to sign Blatche and Stevenson to long term contracts, also forced him to condone Gil's destructive behavior, also forced him to throw his coach under the bus, also forced him to sign Oberto, also forced him to turn down an extremely favorable trade that would have brought in Stoudemire........

If only the FACTS of this were true.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Flexibility to do what? Go back to the lottery? Everybody is talking about flexibility. TO DO WHAT?!?!? 2 years of underwhelming FA's. Do you play for the lottery after going to the playoffs for 4 years? Somebody. You're EG...what is your gameplan?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Lottery, isn't it where we are headed now? Would you rather head for the lottery with fat pockets that will enable you to sign a couple of good players, gives you flexiility to do sign and trades, gives you options to trade cap space for players or would rather head to the lottery with an over the cap, aging roster that's handicapped (no pun intended) for the next 4 years?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

No offense intended, but this is really just a collection of straw men, distortions of what others have said that suggest the writer doesn't really read posts before he comments on them -- or maybe he doesn't understand them.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

You get an F for this comment since you didn't care to elaborate. Mention one thing wrong abotu what I said and don't twist facts to present your argument.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

And if you remember Ernie Grunsfield did not hire Eddie Jordan Abe Pollin did so it is normal for a gm to want his own coach in place just like the Redskins LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Lottery, isn't it where we are headed now? Would you rather head for the lottery with fat pockets that will enable you to sign a couple of good players, gives you flexiility to do sign and trades, gives you options to trade cap space for players or would rather head to the lottery with an over the cap, aging roster that's handicapped (no pun intended) for the next 4 years?

They werent build to go to the lottery. YOUR idea is to dismantle a playoff team to possibly make some moves in the future. Damn that. Play to win. It didn't work.

On the other side if Gil doesnt botch his own rehab and make his injury worse and returns to the 30ppg all-star and they ADD talent to a 45 win team and try to improve.

Okay like I said. You're EG. WHO DO YOU SIGN??! WHO?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Don't know, but I hear Robert Pack is available!

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 4:20 PM

haha! forget that, bring back ladell eackles!

Posted by: wizzz | January 11, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

"I am not a fan of EJ whatsoever but he has had much more success with much less talent than what Flip currently has. I could care less what his record in Philly is, we are talking about the Wizards!"

ok...so you want to be that lazy? Do I really need to lay out the differences?

1. GA was a top 10 player and uninjured when EJ was coach.
2. AJ missed the first part of the season.
3. FS was reincorporating GA into the team after missing two seasons and was obviously not the same player.
4. MM, as one of the players who makes this team more talented, has missed most of the season.
5. RF, as one of the players who makes this team more talented, missed an important stretch of games, which resulted in the team signing Boykins in an emergency move.
6. It was becoming apparent that there were dissension problems resulting from GA diminished returns and ball hogging style. As one NBA executive told Wilbon, if you have a team that has been together this long and has not achieved real success, personality conflicts are bound to surface - first round playoff exits don't count or one second round appearance.
7. There was never anything close to the GA gun saga the team is dealing with now.
8. It was a new season with a new coach and a new system - so all of the above has contributed to the problems.

So, there really is no comparison as the track records of both coaches suggest that FS is a superior coach. There is no denying those facts no matter how much you like EJ and I don't dislike him. I just don't worship him as Dargreg does.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

They werent build to go to the lottery. YOUR idea is to dismantle a playoff team to possibly make some moves in the future. Damn that. Play to win. It didn't work.

On the other side if Gil doesnt botch his own rehab and make his injury worse and returns to the 30ppg all-star and they ADD talent to a 45 win team and try to improve.

Okay like I said. You're EG. WHO DO YOU SIGN??! WHO?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Ok, you are saying this team wasn't built for the lottery but that's where we are headed, which clearly indicates that there was a failure in management. And since EG is the GM, he has failed considering he had millions at his disposal to build a contender. Yeah, some of you will bring up the unvalidated fact that Pollin handed him $160 millions from his wheelchair. Pollin may or may not have pressured him but I doubt he was responsible for the all the poor moves he made. The team's current state is only the fruit of year's of mismanagement and yes, that include the gun incidents.
And you asked me to name players that we could have acquired and I will give you a few examples.
1) Golden State really wanted Gil and was ready to sign him to a big contract, couldn't EG have mastered a sign and trade that would have landed us Monta Ellis (a much cheaper, healthier and better version of Arenas), Randolph (a very good 4 with unlimited upside), a pick....
2) Sac also wanted Gil, couldn't EG got them to surrender Thompson (a rugged young 4 that we desperately need) Garcia or even Kevin Martin.
3) Could the clips have given us Kaman and Gordon?
4) Can't any team that's trying to shed salary (and that includes about half the league) trade one or a couple of their best players for our abundant cap space? You do know that's perfectly feasible, right?........
These are just a few examples, when you have cap space that you are willing to spend and a competent mind, the possibilities are endless...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Like I said when I was still at work. What was your solution? Let them walk and do what?

You have all the answers...I'm waiting.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse


OK. I'll suffer this foolishness for a little bit.

So Arenas is on crutches and I'm wondering whether I should give him a max contract. The other "suitors" include Golden State and LA Clippers...gee, I should already be alarmed at the company that I'm keeping when it comes to thinking about maxing this guy out.

So I let Arenas walk and I go after re-signing AJ. I've got the veteran presence/leadership I need on the team, and I've still got 2 All-Stars on my roster that I can sell, and neither of them are coming off of major knee surgery. I re-sign Roger Mason Jr. and I've got Nick Young in the wings who can give me some supplemental scoring in the backcourt that I lose by letting GA walk, and I'm very interested in getting a more traditional PG who can run the offense and play D. I've got cash and players to work with and I'm looking to get tougher at the 4 or 5, maybe with a low-end but effective signing like Kurt Thomas or maybe through a trade. My bigs aren't great, but they already weren't great with Gil, so that's a wash. Between Roger Mason Jr., Nick Young, Caron Butler and Atwan Jamison, I'm still going to get plenty of perimeter offense. Whatever may be lost by letting Arenas walk on the offensive end, I'm going to make up for by focusing on some solid defensive acquistions. If I can sign AJ to a 2 year contract, then the real Ace up my sleeve is that I can load up for a serious run at a 2010 FA. The point is that I know with Gil this team isn't getting past the 2nd round of the playoffs, so I'm not going to bury myself with his max-contract. With 2 All-Stars, a better defensive team, and a more focused squad sans goof-ball Arenas getting all the attention and eating all the $$, I can stay relatively competitive in the weaker East for 2 years and see how it shakes out.

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

1. GA was a top 10 player and uninjured when EJ was coach.
2. AJ missed the first part of the season.
3. FS was reincorporating GA into the team after missing two seasons and was obviously not the same player.
4. MM, as one of the players who makes this team more talented, has missed most of the season.
5. RF, as one of the players who makes this team more talented, missed an important stretch of games, which resulted in the team signing Boykins in an emergency move.
6. It was becoming apparent that there were dissension problems resulting from GA diminished returns and ball hogging style. As one NBA executive told Wilbon, if you have a team that has been together this long and has not achieved real success, personality conflicts are bound to surface - first round playoff exits don't count or one second round appearance.
7. There was never anything close to the GA gun saga the team is dealing with now.
8. It was a new season with a new coach and a new system - so all of the above has contributed to the problems.

So, there really is no comparison as the track records of both coaches suggest that FS is a superior coach. There is no denying those facts no matter how much you like EJ and I don't dislike him. I just don't worship him as Dargreg does.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

How convenient?? None of your point indicated that the team that EJ had was much stronger than the current one which was the basis of my point. If anything, you made my argument stronger.
And BTW the team was headed toward freefall before Gil's gun situation.
I don't want to spend too much time on this as I am not really an EJ fanatic but the point of the matter is that Flip, so far has failed to control this team or establish any type of identity.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

1) Golden State really wanted Gil and was ready to sign him to a big contract, couldn't EG have mastered a sign and trade that would have landed us Monta Ellis (a much cheaper, healthier and better version of Arenas), Randolph (a very good 4 with unlimited upside), a pick....
2) Sac also wanted Gil, couldn't EG got them to surrender Thompson (a rugged young 4 that we desperately need) Garcia or even Kevin Martin.
3) Could the clips have given us Kaman and Gordon?
4) Can't any team that's trying to shed salary (and that includes about half the league) trade one or a couple of their best players for our abundant cap space? You do know that's perfectly feasible, right?........
These are just a few examples, when you have cap space that you are willing to spend and a competent mind, the possibilities are endless...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:42 PM


Your argument has 1 major flaw sorry to tell you but it was well documented that Abe Pollin told EG to sign Gilbert Arenas at any cost so you need to re think what you wrote LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

On the other side if Gil doesnt botch his own rehab and make his injury worse and returns to the 30ppg all-star and they ADD talent to a 45 win team and try to improve.

Okay like I said. You're EG. WHO DO YOU SIGN??! WHO?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse


Now it's time for you to answer some questions.

So let's say the Big 3 all return 100% healthy, and we roll out the team that we started this season with and it's hitting on all cylinders.

How far does this team honestly go?

Does it get past the 2nd round of the playoffs?

Does it get to the East Championship?

Does it compete for a Finals?

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

1. Why would Golden State do that? Gil was an unrestricted free agent. They had to cap room to sign him outright. Why give away Ellis and Randolph. DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

2. See scenario 1.

3. See scenario 1.

4. Okay in the two years since Gil has signed. What team has traded a couple of their best players for nothing?

Seriously?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Flip Saunders career winning percentage is 58% with 3 conference final appearances. His playoff winning percentage is 48%.

Eddi Jordan's career winning percentage is 44% with one second round appearance. His playoff winning percentage is 30%.

Facts are facts!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

The NBA is not like the NFL. The NFL is truly a Not For Long league. Superbowl one year and cellar dweller the next, or VicerVersa.

However in the NBA, the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer. So the astute evaluation of talent is critical and how you mesh and coach the talent is even moreso.

So having a fire sale in the NBA might not mean nothing for your Team. It could just be garbage out and garbage in.

Thus you have to careful when all of you wizards, pardon my play on words, push to get rid of every player in sight just to bring in new ones.

All of this trade talk and blow it up, and Leonsis has to come in and clean house, might not make one bit of difference in the NBA.

One thing that is clearly evident though to me, is that the players here are not as stupid as they are being brushed.

Javale and his momma will not resign here. Blatche will not. Haywood will not. Anyone that thinks that this organization has any real bargaining power with the other Teams are clueless.

They have blown bargaining power with their own players.

A lot of you bloggers are not really reading the tea leaves about this Team.

No good FA's are going to come here and our own players that we might want to keep will not resign with this Team.

In basketball good players and good coaches always end up with the few good Teams and organizations.

Only luck makes a bad Team a good one. So, the Wizards need to start circling the wagons, but, at this point the Wizards/Ernie Grunfield/Flip Saunders probably do not realize what circling the wagons means.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 11, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Well documented by whom, the "rnorris post"?
What was well documented is that Pollin wanted to win a championship badly before his deteriorating health slipped further and anyone with the smallest brain knew then and knows now that Gil wasn't and definitely will not bring a championship to this team. And if EG was half as competent as he is portrayed to be and if in fact your claim that Pollin forced his hand is true, he could have made the point that there will be no championship as long as GA is on the team. But au contraire, EG had the failed opinion that Gil could lead this team to the promised land and gave him million, carte blanche to act any way he wants towards anyone including coaches, which is one of the reason the gun situation deteriorated this far.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Even though you didn't answer mine...I'll answer yours.

Nobody knows. It didn't happen. Why couldn't they go to the Eastern Conference Finals?

KG and Pierce are already breaking down
Orlando it isn't clicking
Cleveland has been up and down
Atlanta is better than I thought they would be.

NOBODY KNOWS. All we know is it didn't happen. On paper they have more talent that most.

That's all that matters.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

"How convenient?? None of your point indicated that the team that EJ had was much stronger than the current one which was the basis of my point. If anything, you made my argument stronger."

You make no sense. But, I'll try to interpret for you. Your argument was that FS has a better/deeper team - I think - and their record this year is poor. Well, I absolutely pointed out facts as to why this season in totality is much different than any that EJ dealt with. To claim otherwise is absolutely absurd. I don't think anybody in here is blaming this season's performance on FS. By the way, don't feel sorry for him. He saw what a lot of "experts" saw. And, that was a talented team that some thought could be as good as the 4th seed in the conference. The fact that the season unraveled instead of coming together is more a result of Curse Les Boulez than anything. Let's hope that with a changing of the guard a new era of more luck and success results.

Let's play this game. Are you suggesting that with EJ as coach that this team would be better than it is right now? Yeah, sure.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Actually Larry I heard today on the radio that Haywood may be leaving for Portland and I hope he does only for the fact they will not win the title this year and Haywood will walk so why not get something in return for him rather than playing him the rest of the season and having nothing to show for it ?????

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

1. Why would Golden State do that? Gil was an unrestricted free agent. They had to cap room to sign him outright. Why give away Ellis and Randolph. DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

2. See scenario 1.

3. See scenario 1.

4. Okay in the two years since Gil has signed. What team has traded a couple of their best players for nothing?

Seriously?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse


All the teams I mentioned really wanted Gil as much as we did and the ball was in our court. Not to be redundant, I will only bring up GS example and answer your question. They would be willing to do a sign and trade because they wouldn't be able to afford all the aforementioned players and it would give them more flexibility to sign other players as well.
Why would they want to do this deal? Great question, since they really wanted Gil (to make up for not resigning him 4 years earlier), yes they totally would have offered the players I mentioned. Sounds dumb, doesn't it? As dumb as EG offering Gil that contract.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Even though you didn't answer mine...I'll answer yours.

Nobody knows. It didn't happen. Why couldn't they go to the Eastern Conference Finals?

KG and Pierce are already breaking down
Orlando it isn't clicking
Cleveland has been up and down
Atlanta is better than I thought they would be.

NOBODY KNOWS. All we know is it didn't happen. On paper they have more talent that most.

That's all that matters.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Why couldn't they make it to the Eastern conference finals?
Maybe because they placed all their chips on an immature, one dimensional, leadership lacking, no defense playing tweener.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

As dumb as EG offering Gil that contract.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:05 PM

MAN GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU TALK LOL It is well documented that Ape Pollin tol Ernie Grunfield to sign Gilbert Arenas at any cost abe e ven called Gilbert asking him to please sign with us Abe even admitted he did on a interview they did with him LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Even though you didn't answer mine...I'll answer yours.

Nobody knows. It didn't happen. Why couldn't they go to the Eastern Conference Finals?

KG and Pierce are already breaking down
Orlando it isn't clicking
Cleveland has been up and down
Atlanta is better than I thought they would be.

NOBODY KNOWS. All we know is it didn't happen. On paper they have more talent that most.

That's all that matters.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse


I think I answered your question better than you answered mine.

I could have been snarky like you and said: "No one really knows who else EG could have gotten, because it didn't happen. That's all that matters"

Instead I gave you a very plausible alternative scenario of what could have been done.

You seem to think that if EG did not max-out GA, then he absolutely had to max-out someone else.

Of course if he's operating under direct order from Abe, then that's something different.

But would you care to explain to us why EG absolutely had to max out anyone that offseason??


Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

All the teams I mentioned really wanted Gil as much as we did and the ball was in our court. Not to be redundant, I will only bring up GS example and answer your question. They would be willing to do a sign and trade because they wouldn't be able to afford all the aforementioned players and it would give them more flexibility to sign other players as well.
Why would they want to do this deal? Great question, since they really wanted Gil (to make up for not resigning him 4 years earlier), yes they totally would have offered the players I mentioned. Sounds dumb, doesn't it? As dumb as EG offering Gil that contract.

And this is why this conversation is OVER.
Golden State DEFINITELY had the cap room to sign gil to a 90+ million dollar contract. Because most of their players were still on their rookie contracts. They didn't need to trade two players for the cap room. THEY ALREADY HAD IT.

Besides why if a team is signing an all-star player (clearly they want to improve) why would they give away their best and another building block. What's the point.

Ellis is better but Gil gave him 45 and 13? Come on man.

You know what happens to teams that horde cap room and can't sign anybody? They sign Corey Maggette.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

@Utilityman,

You should stop posting as you are getting more absurd by the second. Nobody with a clue believes that EG had carte blanche to do what he pleased. It does not matter that you or anybody believed that GA could not win a championship. It only matters that Pollin believed keeping the "Big 3" together was his best chance at achieving his goal at winning a championship before he died. In that regard, he was correct bc starting over would have taken years he did not have.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

You make no sense. But, I'll try to interpret for you. Your argument was that FS has a better/deeper team - I think - and their record this year is poor. Well, I absolutely pointed out facts as to why this season in totality is much different than any that EJ dealt with. To claim otherwise is absolutely absurd. I don't think anybody in here is blaming this season's performance on FS. By the way, don't feel sorry for him. He saw what a lot of "experts" saw. And, that was a talented team that some thought could be as good as the 4th seed in the conference. The fact that the season unraveled instead of coming together is more a result of Curse Les Boulez than anything. Let's hope that with a changing of the guard a new era of more luck and success results.

Let's play this game. Are you suggesting that with EJ as coach that this team would be better than it is right now? Yeah, sure.


Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

If the basis of your arguments is an imaginary curse, you have lost all credibility and I can't engage in a "fair" dialogue with you because everytime you fail to present valid points, you will blame it on the curse, which is laughable.
The real curse is EG giving Gil that big contract!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

"Never have I played a game and had no shot attempts, they got me all f---ed up."

A quote from Andray Blatche's facebook page apparently.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

When Andray Blatche got mad @ his crappy play Sun. & blamed others, he Facebooked that he was going 2 Atlantic City

Mike Jones reported that just now.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

To Portland for who Rnorris6?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 11, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD I cant honestly say I lost the radio signal in the tunnel and never got to hear the details and I wont even get into trying to make something up LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:18 PM | Report abuse

And if that is so, it must mean that this Org has bought in to the fact that Haywood isn't the NBA center that they want for this franchise and also may be the bullheaded stupid reason they have been playing Blatche at center.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 11, 2010 11:18 PM | Report abuse

So I let Arenas walk and I go after re-signing AJ. I've got the veteran presence/leadership I need on the team, and I've still got 2 All-Stars on my roster that I can sell, and neither of them are coming off of major knee surgery. I re-sign Roger Mason Jr. and I've got Nick Young in the wings who can give me some supplemental scoring in the backcourt that I lose by letting GA walk, and I'm very interested in getting a more traditional PG who can run the offense and play D. I've got cash and players to work with and I'm looking to get tougher at the 4 or 5, maybe with a low-end but effective signing like Kurt Thomas or maybe through a trade. My bigs aren't great, but they already weren't great with Gil, so that's a wash. Between Roger Mason Jr., Nick Young, Caron Butler and Atwan Jamison, I'm still going to get plenty of perimeter offense. Whatever may be lost by letting Arenas walk on the offensive end, I'm going to make up for by focusing on some solid defensive acquistions. If I can sign AJ to a 2 year contract, then the real Ace up my sleeve is that I can load up for a serious run at a 2010 FA. The point is that I know with Gil this team isn't getting past the 2nd round of the playoffs, so I'm not going to bury myself with his max-contract. With 2 All-Stars, a better defensive team, and a more focused squad sans goof-ball Arenas getting all the attention and eating all the $$, I can stay relatively competitive in the weaker East for 2 years and see how it shakes out.

I didn't see this post.

First. Why would AJ stay if you decide to let Gil walk? He stated that he wanted to win. Letting the franchise player walk shows the opposite.

So basically sign Kurt Thomas and keep Roger Mason and play for FA's in 2 years?

Any play the "I hope someone comes here" game?

So youre starting some random PG, Mason, Butler, Jamison and Kurt Thomas/Haywood?

Sounds like last season to me.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Let me clue some of you about Blatche. Blatche is pissed because they have him playing center and he isn't a center and he knows it and he doesn't produce at center.

Blatche is a power forward, he knows it, and he will excell playing with a center and not trying to replace one. It seems that the only folks that don't know this is the Wizard coaching staff.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 11, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

This argument is over because your points make very little sense. You are defending Gil's signing as if it were the only option left for this organization to even exist.
Yes, Ellis is not only much cheaper, younger and better than Gil.
I will summarize for you why this argument shouldn't even have been brought up to begin with and is actually comical: this team, with Gil as the leader is next to last in a historically weak Eastern conference, is mirred deep in off the court trouble because of Gil, is in total shambles and disarray because of gil (players divisions, fines, suspensions, local and federal investigations, missed practices and is the laughinstock of the NBA because of Gil.
So you have absolutely no credibility defending him as a player (not as a citizen, that's another story) or defending his outrageous signing and doing so is making you look foolish!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Let me clue some of you about Blatche. Blatche is pissed because they have him playing center and he isn't a center and he knows it and he doesn't produce at center.

No Larry. Dray is mad he didn't get shots. In his own words. Hell...Blatche still thinks he's a PG.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

@Utilityman,

lol..ok...done debating someone as unintelligent as you. I listed a whole bunch of reasons why this season has been bad. Anybody with a clue won't compare what FS has dealt with this season to the prime years of EG although this team's roster on paper was much improved. I gave you a whole list of reasons that you conveniently ignore in your ignorance. And, that is also completely ignoring the history of both coaches. So, hope you find a clue someday.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

You should stop posting as you are getting more absurd by the second. Nobody with a clue believes that EG had carte blanche to do what he pleased. It does not matter that you or anybody believed that GA could not win a championship. It only matters that Pollin believed keeping the "Big 3" together was his best chance at achieving his goal at winning a championship before he died. In that regard, he was correct bc starting over would have taken years he did not have.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

He was correct???? And I am absurd??? Not sure you get it but have you looked at the team record lately? Have you looked at all the troubles, investigations and embarrassments this team has been exposed to lately?
And you have the audacity to claim that he was correct?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Ellis is not only much cheaper, younger and better than Gil.
I will summarize for you why this argument shouldn't even have been brought up to begin with and is actually comical: this team, with Gil as the leader is next to last in a historically weak Eastern conference, is mirred deep in off the court trouble because of Gil, is in total shambles and disarray because of gil (players divisions, fines, suspensions, local and federal investigations, missed practices and is the laughinstock of the NBA because of Gil.

So you have absolutely no credibility defending him as a player (not as a citizen, that's another story) or defending his outrageous signing and doing so is making you look foolish!

It's not about the Gil signing. You're like oh we could've done this and we could've done that when you're flat out wrong. I asked you if you were Ernie what would you have done. Signing Gil might not have been the right choice...so I asked you what was.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

So you have absolutely no credibility defending him as a player (not as a citizen, that's another story) or defending his outrageous signing and doing so is making you look foolish!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:25 PM


It is you that looks foolish because the signing of AJ and Agent 0 was solely Abe Pollins Decision and that is a fact a matter of record all you have to do is stop being lazy and go look it up LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

lol..ok...done debating someone as unintelligent as you. I listed a whole bunch of reasons why this season has been bad. Anybody with a clue won't compare what FS has dealt with this season to the prime years of EG although this team's roster on paper was much improved. I gave you a whole list of reasons that you conveniently ignore in your ignorance. And, that is also completely ignoring the history of both coaches. So, hope you find a clue someday.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

I sincerely believe you need a clue and better foresight considering you have religiously defended Gil's outrageous signing and have all along predicted vast success this year.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

It is you that looks foolish because the signing of AJ and Agent 0 was solely Abe Pollins Decision and that is a fact a matter of record all you have to do is stop being lazy and go look it up LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Youre talking about when Abe said he called Gil and told him that no matter what he was bringing him back or something like that?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

First. Why would AJ stay if you decide to let Gil walk? He stated that he wanted to win. Letting the franchise player walk shows the opposite.

So basically sign Kurt Thomas and keep Roger Mason and play for FA's in 2 years?

Any play the "I hope someone comes here" game?

So youre starting some random PG, Mason, Butler, Jamison and Kurt Thomas/Haywood?

Sounds like last season to me.


Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, doesn't sound like Jamison was holding the organization hostage over Arenas:

Jamison has maintained for months that he hoped to re-sign with Washington after four successful years with the Wizards following a one-season stint with the Dallas Mavericks in 2003-04, which earned him NBA Sixth Man Award honors.

"There wasn't any doubt in my mind that I'd be back," said Jamison, 32.

In December, Jamison also spoke fondly at the time of his role as Washington's elder statesman, saying: "You know what? I've been in a lot of situations before. I've been the young fella, I've been the guy who's trying to learn how to be a leader, I've been the guy coming off the bench as a sixth man. And now all of a sudden I'm the old head. It's been 10 years and it's gone by fast. But I'm really enjoying this."

++++++++


And yeah, maybe that starting 5 would have turned out like last season. But you know what? OUR STARTING 5 ALSO LOOKS LIKE LAST SEASON EXCEPT WE ARE STRAPPED DOWN WITH GIL'S CONTRACT.

And why do you think no one would come to Washington? What's wrong with this town that makes it so odious for an FA to consider? DC has proven itself to be an awesome b-ball city.


So basically your points boil down to this:

1) EG had no choice but to max-out Gil. Why? Because it was just that way.

2) Every good potential FA hates DC and would never come here.

3) Any potential starting lineup without Gil would have been just like last season. And let's conveniently ignore the fact that the starting lineup WITH Gil looks about as bad as last season.

Gotcha. Glad we had this exchange.


Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

It's not about the Gil signing. You're like oh we could've done this and we could've done that when you're flat out wrong. I asked you if you were Ernie what would you have done. Signing Gil might not have been the right choice...so I asked you what was.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

And I gave you several valid options above. You act like it was give Gil $111 millions or suffer for the rest of your existence. There are several options available and a good GM is able to explore them favorably.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:36 PM | Report abuse

It is you that looks foolish because the signing of AJ and Agent 0 was solely Abe Pollins Decision and that is a fact a matter of record all you have to do is stop being lazy and go look it up LOL

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

A good GM would have presented facts to his boss highlighting why Gil would never ever be the centerpiece of a contending team. However EG supported his boss' desire and gave Gil millions and carte blanche to act any way he'd like, which, once again, is one of the reasons he is finding himself in so much trouble and is dragging the team down with him.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse

I am relatively certain that Washington, DC wasn't a choice destination for NBA free agents before the current fiasco. Paternalistic ownership and old school management were unlikely to attract the league's young stars, and while both may be changing in the near future, the team hardly improved its image among players with the way they handled the drama with Gilbert Arenas.

Rightly or wrongly, I suspect that with its publicity-driven campaign to remove all traces of Gilbert Arenas from the team Wizards management has created a lasting impression among the league's players that may take years to live down.

Of course, if Leonsis takes over the team, it hardly matters as he is likely to apply the same methods that appear to have worked so well with the Capitals. In other words, we are likely to see the team attempt to rebuild through high draft picks subsequent to at least a couple of very lean years. At this point, it should be noted that, there is no guarantee that the Wizard's will luck into the NBA equivalent of Alex Ovetchkin.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | January 11, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse

No Larry. Dray is mad he didn't get shots. In his own words. Hell...Blatche still thinks he's a PG.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:27 PM

Ask Haywood how many shots he gets passed to him playing center. Haywood has to get his own shots mostly. He only gets courtesy passes in this offense.

By the time Blatche comes in to replace Haywood there are no passes going to the center position, especially to a power forward that can't play center.

Like I said, he is pissed cause they have him playing the center position.

The Wizards do not really use the center in their offense and is why Haywood will be on the first flight smoking outa' here.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 11, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

"He was correct???? And I am absurd??? Not sure you get it but have you looked at the team record lately? Have you looked at all the troubles, investigations and embarrassments this team has been exposed to lately?
And you have the audacity to claim that he was correct?"

@Utilityman,

You are going from being ignorant to being a moron. Do you have anything past a 5th grade reading comprehension? I said that he was correct that in starting a rebuild there was absolutely zero chance the team would win much of anything much less a championship before he died. I made no comment as to whether I thought he was correct in thinking the "Big 3" could win a championship.

And, you are incorrect again in saying that I have defended the GA signing. I was against it at the time and have always been. Not at $111 million. Perhaps $80 million. But, I have defended EG in that it is quite clear that he has not had carte blanche to do as he pleased as GM.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

A good GM would have presented facts to his boss highlighting why Gil would never ever be the centerpiece of a contending team. However EG supported his boss' desire and gave Gil millions and carte blanche to act any way he'd like, which, once again, is one of the reasons he is finding himself in so much trouble and is dragging the team down with him.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:40 PM

You make a good point so let me add this. How do you know that EG did not state those concerns to Abe Pollin because it was discussed behind closed doors and not relesed to any media LOL Just a Thought

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Even if free agents don't consider Washington as a favorable destination, which is vastly unproven, you can trade your cap space for good players (Memphis did it to acquire Randolph for example). 99% of players don't have the authority to veto a trade so all that talk about FA snubbing DC is moot!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

So basically your points boil down to this:

1) EG had no choice but to max-out Gil. Why? Because it was just that way.

2) Every good potential FA hates DC and would never come here.

3) Any potential starting lineup without Gil would have been just like last season. And let's conveniently ignore the fact that the starting lineup WITH Gil looks about as bad as last season.

Gotcha. Glad we had this exchange.

1. I never said he had to. I said it was an option and why. I gave you the option to counter it.

2. DC is not a great basketball city. Have you been to games? My HS basketball games were louder at time. DC fans are some of the most fickle out there. That's just how it is.

3. Gil played less than a 1/3 of the season. We'll never know where this years team would have been.

Jamison said he wanted to win. I'll pull a quote after this. You think if we let it be known were going to let Gil walk he's going to willingly sign on to a rebuilding project? The percentage definitely rises.

You can say EG's plan wasn't successful. I don't fault him for trying to win instead of shedding talent and hoping something "shakes out" in 2 years.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:47 PM | Report abuse

I am relatively certain that Washington, DC wasn't a choice destination for NBA free agents before the current fiasco. Paternalistic ownership and old school management were unlikely to attract the league's young stars, and while both may be changing in the near future, the team hardly improved its image among players with the way they handled the drama with Gilbert Arenas.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | January 11, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse


Well unless you have some kind of inside pipeline into the thinking of NBA FAs, I don't know how you can be "relatively certain" of anything.

The DC metro area is a great place to move to. Period. We're not talking Memphis, Charlotte or OKC.

The DC-Bmore area is a basketball crazed part of the country. As evidenced in high-school and college ball.

The city has 100% supported teams that are good. You don't even have to be a GREAT team. All you have to be is good and the city will throw itself behind you.


Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

"A good GM would have presented facts to his boss highlighting why Gil would never ever be the centerpiece of a contending team. However EG supported his boss' desire and gave Gil millions and carte blanche to act any way he'd like, which, once again, is one of the reasons he is finding himself in so much trouble and is dragging the team down with him."

And you know for a fact that he didn't and was told to do what his boss wanted? Arguing with idiots is always fun if not annoying.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

And I gave you several valid options above. You act like it was give Gil $111 millions or suffer for the rest of your existence. There are several options available and a good GM is able to explore them favorably.

The point of this exchange was that they didn't have to sign Gil. What would you do in EG's shoes. You gave options. Only NONE of them were valid.

Why would a GM work out a sign and trade when they can sign him without giving up anything?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Even if free agents don't consider Washington as a favorable destination, which is vastly unproven, you can trade your cap space for good players (Memphis did it to acquire Randolph for example). 99% of players don't have the authority to veto a trade so all that talk about FA snubbing DC is moot!

Zach Randolph...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg

I'll pass.
When players get traded for "cap room" there is usually a reason behind it. It's called a salary DUMP for a reason.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:53 PM | Report abuse

You make a good point so let me add this. How do you know that EG did not state those concerns to Abe Pollin because it was discussed behind closed doors and not relesed to any media LOL Just a Thought

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

EG also favored the signing based on several facts stemming from the ongoing investigation. He allowed Gil to act any way he'd like and even disrespect his coaches (before he signed that contract) based on him winning alot of games for the organization. He insisted on Gil being the team captain although anyone with 1/4 of a brain should have realized that Gil has absolutely no leadership skills and has a very negative influence on the youngsters.
EG also disagreed with the coaches as to his role on the team, he has always favored him being the "man" even though other players showed more commitment and leadership (AJ, CB).
Pollin wanted to win a championship and instead of being a "yes sir", he should have articulated facts indicating why Gil should not be the centerpiece of a championship team. Which he didn't do because he agreed with his boss.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:55 PM | Report abuse

You are going from being ignorant to being a moron. Do you have anything past a 5th grade reading comprehension? I said that he was correct that in starting a rebuild there was absolutely zero chance the team would win much of anything much less a championship before he died. I made no comment as to whether I thought he was correct in thinking the "Big 3" could win a championship.

And, you are incorrect again in saying that I have defended the GA signing. I was against it at the time and have always been. Not at $111 million. Perhaps $80 million. But, I have defended EG in that it is quite clear that he has not had carte blanche to do as he pleased as GM.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Not only you don't have a clue but you use insults to drive your weak arguments.
The bottom line is, your cherished boy EG has failed miserably and should have been held accountable for last year's horrendous showing, for this year's pathetic start and definitely for the embarrasment that he is indirectly causing this organization because of Gil's fiasco.
That, sir, cannot be argued.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 11, 2010 11:58 PM | Report abuse

However, in the past year, the Redskins, Nats and now the Wiz have all fallen so low, both in the standings and in their public misadventures, that they have become national jokes. Their hideous won-lost records -- 4-12, 59-103 and 12-23 -- have been surpassed by their off-field embarrassment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/11/AR2010011103599.html

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 11, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse

1. I never said he had to. I said it was an option and why. I gave you the option to counter it.

2. DC is not a great basketball city. Have you been to games? My HS basketball games were louder at time. DC fans are some of the most fickle out there. That's just how it is.

3. Gil played less than a 1/3 of the season. We'll never know where this years team would have been.

Jamison said he wanted to win. I'll pull a quote after this. You think if we let it be known were going to let Gil walk he's going to willingly sign on to a rebuilding project? The percentage definitely rises.

You can say EG's plan wasn't successful. I don't fault him for trying to win instead of shedding talent and hoping something "shakes out" in 2 years.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:47 PM | Report abuse

1. I countered it.

2. You're wrong. This city gets behind good teams. It was behind the Webber team, and it was behind the Big 3 for many years, even though neither of those teams got past the 2nd round. No city pulls for an out-and-out loser.

3. Gil's injury woes were entirely predictable. That was part of the foolish risk of maxing him out. You don't knowingly buy a lemon and then act surprised when it's broken down on the side of the road.


I can do more than "say" it wasn't successful. I can record as a fact of history that his plan wasn't successful.
I can also say that I didn't think it would be successful 2 years ago for all the reasons that it proved not to be successful.

EG went "all-in" chasing a straight on the river. That's just dumb. I fault him for it.


Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2010 12:00 AM | Report abuse

You're wrong. This city gets behind good teams. It was behind the Webber team, and it was behind the Big 3 for many years, even though neither of those teams got past the 2nd round. No city pulls for an out-and-out loser.

Like I said DC fans are fickle. Gary Williams won a championship AT MARYLAND. And 3 years later they want him gone, Fridge too.

Georgetown? It's been rumblings of people wanting Thompson gone.

DC fans blow with the wind. Except Redskins fans.

So "letting things shake out" how does that look to future FA's? Reputation for being weak, kicking Jordan and then letting Gil go. Doesn't give the appearance of taking care of his players.

The worse part is that Gil's original injury wasn't that serious. He made it worse himself.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Gil has absolutely no leadership skills and has a very negative influence on the youngsters.

Who said he had a negative influence on the kids. Geez...I wish they had his work ethic. McGuire is the only one that seems to have it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

And you know for a fact that he didn't and was told to do what his boss wanted? Arguing with idiots is always fun if not annoying.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 11, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Rphilli, there is a very common notion that when people lose arguments, they resort to insulting the other party to somehow soothe their egos.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

When players get traded for "cap room" there is usually a reason behind it. It's called a salary DUMP for a reason.


Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 11, 2010 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, and alot of financially struggling team have been and are willing to do that and obviously the Wiz doesn't seem to have money issues considering we are on the top echelon in terms of players compensation.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Who said he had a negative influence on the kids. Geez...I wish they had his work ethic. McGuire is the only one that seems to have it.


Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Obviously sir, you are either ignoring it or you haven't been paying attention to the news. This has nothing to do with his work ethic but on the poor influence he's had on players such as NY, Critt....

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, and alot of financially struggling team have been and are willing to do that and obviously the Wiz doesn't seem to have money issues considering we are on the top echelon in terms of players compensation.

Really? Like who? What players have been "dumped" that are worth giving up cap space for?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Obviously sir, you are either ignoring it or you haven't been paying attention to the news. This has nothing to do with his work ethic but on the poor influence he's had on players such as NY, Critt....

Maybe you should read what I said. Where does it say he had a negative impact on Nick or Critt?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Utah is willing to dump players to get under the cap, OKC just acquired a very good young PG with this strategy, I am sure the Nets are willing to trade one of their youngsters to clear more cap space, Indiana and New Orleans are struggling financially and are more than willing to shed salaries and there are probably dozens of other scenarios that can manifest as well.
The cap space was just one of the possibilities. Once again, with cap flexibility and a willingness to use it (which hasn't been an issue with this team the past few years) create a myriad of possibilities.
This whole argument was in response to your underlying point that somehow signing Gil was the only option for this team to succeed, which couldn't be further from reality, obviously.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 12:33 AM | Report abuse

"Not only you don't have a clue but you use insults to drive your weak arguments.
The bottom line is, your cherished boy EG has failed miserably and should have been held accountable for last year's horrendous showing, for this year's pathetic start and definitely for the embarrasment that he is indirectly causing this organization because of Gil's fiasco.
That, sir, cannot be argued."

lol...idiots on parade. Keep it up you are putting on a nice show. "Failed miserably" as in getting this moribund franchise into the playoffs 4 years in a row? And, I guess it's his fault GA had 3 knee surgeries and BH missed the entire season, which is what lead to last year's fiasco. Boy, you are just stupid. If you had any reasonable arguments, I wouldn't resort to calling as it is.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 12, 2010 12:35 AM | Report abuse

lol...idiots on parade. Keep it up you are putting on a nice show. "Failed miserably" as in getting this moribund franchise into the playoffs 4 years in a row? And, I guess it's his fault GA had 3 knee surgeries and BH missed the entire season, which is what lead to last year's fiasco. Boy, you are just stupid. If you had any reasonable arguments, I wouldn't resort to calling as it is.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 12, 2010 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Not it wasn't his fault that Gil had 3 surgeries but he did offer him a max contract while he was on crutches (which he totally supported so the Pollin forcing his hand point is bogus). This team has the 8th highest payroll in the league and the best result has been a second round sweep in a pathetically weak eastern conference. If that's your treshold for success considering millions have been spent on payroll, then your expectations are very low and consequently, you should be calling yourself an idiot.
You epitomize exactly what's wrong with this team (historically low expecations and lack of vision and common sense) so I am sure that you are a proud follower.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 12:44 AM | Report abuse

Once again. I never said he had to sign Gil. I just said he had limited options.

Eric Maynor, Matt Harpring, Devin Brown...THATS SOMETHING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT!

Sign and trades where we get the other teams best player!

Come on man.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:49 AM | Report abuse

Sign and trades where we get the other teams best player!

Come on man.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 12:49 AM | Report abuse

Eric Maynor was an excellent draft pick and is shaping up to have a great future.
New Orleans would dump West's contract if given the opportunity.
There are tons of possibilities and obviously only GM's have access to that information but you get the point.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 12:52 AM | Report abuse

@Utilityman,

Classic idiotic debating techniques, which is diversionary tactics when getting whipped. Who said anything about payroll? What does that have to do with EG as GM getting this franchise, which is notoriously bad, into the playoffs 4 straight years. Keep changing the argument when the present argument is not going your way. Nice. And, your assumptions about the Gil contract are absurd. There was more reported at the time that supports my position than yours or else I wouldn't purport to know what really happened yet you insert all these nuances that nobody could possibly know.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 12, 2010 1:03 AM | Report abuse

By the way, Lee will be getting a contract in the $70-90 million realm. Max years and over $10 million a year.

Posted by: Blurred | January 11, 2010 4:59 PM

You mean that's your best guess, no?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 11, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Guess?? No. An informed opinion? Yes.

Posted by: Blurred | January 12, 2010 8:04 AM | Report abuse

...and to continue the dumping on EG, I'd like to revive the question:

What on God's green earth was Fabricio Oberto supposed to add to this team?

Posted by: p1funk | January 11, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

5-10 minutes of relief time against a 2nd stringer every now and then.

Posted by: Blurred | January 12, 2010 8:12 AM | Report abuse

"Marc Gasol isn't as good as Pau Gasol."Posted by: artiesliver

He wasn't when the trade was made, but have you been watching him play this season? He's taller and a good thirty pounds heavier than his brother, and he's potentially a better defensive player. To me, he's a more natural center than Pau.

The elder Gasol is an offensive marvel who John Thompson once described as having 'every inside move ever invented." Marc lacks that array of moves, but he's a huge man with very good hands and improving footwork. The sort of center that, on a stronger club, could turn it into a title contender.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 11, 2010 7:51 PM

Like I said. Pau is better.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse


"Well unless you have some kind of inside pipeline into the thinking of NBA FAs, I don't know how you can be "relatively certain" of anything.

The DC metro area is a great place to move to. Period. We're not talking Memphis, Charlotte or OKC.

The DC-Bmore area is a basketball crazed part of the country. As evidenced in high-school and college ball.

The city has 100% supported teams that are good. You don't even have to be a GREAT team. All you have to be is good and the city will throw itself behind you."

I claim no such insight, rather I base my observation on empirical evidence. The last meaningful free agent signing by the Wizards is the selfsame Gilbert Arenas who has - wrongly, in my opinion - become the most recent emblem of the team's failures. You may also wish to note that I did not criticize DC as such and instead pointed to ownership and management as the primary reasons behind Washington's failure to attract marquee free agents. Though even excluding the front office as a factor Washington lacks the tradition, climate, ot starpower to rank among the league's most desirable locations.

Of course, the point is likely going to be moot if Leonsis buys the team, as he is more than likely to apply the same methodology to remaking the Wizards that he used to turn the Capitals into a winner. Only, I am uncertain whether the Capitals' success is primarily due to savvy planning or fortunate draft picks. I suppose, one could make the argument that it was savvy planning that created the opportunity for fortune to smile on the Caps, and that putting the Wizards in position to draft a franchise player may indeed be the best course forward even if it means that they will be truly awful for a couple of years.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | January 12, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Trades of superstars usually are. The Garnett/Jefferson trade was one-sided and Jefferson is a potential all-star. But the fact remains the Grizzlies got a young big man with low post skills and all-star potential The Wizards didn't have one of those to trade, and the stuff they did have to trade no one wanted.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 7:59 PM

Get back to me when he actually IS an all-star. All this talk about potential is just that. TALK.
There's no guarantee that Marc will get any better than he is today, which means Pau IS the better player.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Also, the team must surrender an unprotected 1st round pick.


Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 11, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Ha!!! I can't believe that DCMAN and I agree on something!

Posted by: Blurred | January 12, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"Marc Gasol isn't as good as Pau Gasol."Posted by: artiesliver

Yet both are like 5 times better than Haywood and 20 times better than Blatche.

Posted by: Blurred | January 12, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

"Your question didn't limit the conversation to teams that were not in "unique" situations or the year GA and Jamison were free agents. For that matter, every team probably considers their situation unique when they have to move a franchise player.

Oh please. If the Grizzlies hadn't been on the block, the Gasol trade never gets made, so clearly the uniqueness of the situation takes it out of consideration with regard to Arenas and Jamision, because no other team was in that same position, so no other team was going to repeat that deal (never mind wanting to avoid the sh@tstorm of criticism the Grizzlies got). Simple, basic logic.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 11, 2010 7:59 PM

If this, then that. The simple, basic, logical fact is that it happened, so it meets the criteria of a team giving away a franchise player for peanuts, junk, trash, etc.

Right place, right time.

A simple, basic FACT.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Statistically, Marc Gasol is not a better player than Brendan Haywood. The only clear advantage Gasol has is youth and thus the potential to improve.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | January 12, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

"Marc Gasol isn't as good as Pau Gasol."Posted by: artiesliver

Yet both are like 5 times better than Haywood and 20 times better than Blatche.

Posted by: Blurred | January 12, 2010 9:04 AM

True that.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

"Statistically, Marc Gasol is not a better player than Brendan Haywood."

(A) The game is about more than statistics. Anyone who's seen them play knows that Gasol is a vastly more skilled player than Haywood. As a general rule, skill is a pretty big advantage in pro sports.

(B)Gasol is a better player statistically than Haywood. They play roughly the same number of minutes but Gasol averages more points (by almost 5), shoots a higher percentage, dishes out more assists, and grabs about the same number of rebounds. The only thing Haywood does better is block shots.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Wait...

Marc Gasol IS statistically better than Haywood. Even in his 2nd season.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Thomas you are on crack!

Marc Gasol in year 2:
14.5 ppg
9.6 rpg
61% FGs

Brendan "Late Bloomer" Haywood THIS YEAR:
9.7 ppg
10.4 rpg
55% FGs

Gasol is going to average double figure scoring EVERY year he plays in the association.

Haywood has done it ONCE in 9 seasons.

Posted by: elfreako | January 12, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"Get back to me when he actually IS an all-star. All this talk about potential is just that. TALK."

And you don't think talk matters when teams are negotiating a deal? Of course it does. Teams talk about players all the time. They talk about whether they have the potential to be a star or just a role player. It was a widely held consensus that Jefferson had All-Star talent prior to the Garnett deal, which is why Minnesota was willing to deal Garnett for him. Name one young player on the Wizards at the time who came close to falling into that category. Hell, name one now.

"Right place, right time."

And, again, name one team at the time Arenas and Jamison were FAs who was in the right place to be willing to deal a potential young all-star for nothing. No one's asking you to predict the future here. It's all in the past and the evidence is easily found. Just look back at the circumstances and tell us one team that made a deal that at that time that suggests that the Wizards could have snagged a young future all-star for cap room.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

"There's no guarantee that Marc will get any better than he is today, which means Pau IS the better player."

There's no guarantee that any player will ever get better. But the fact remains that teams make personnel decisions based on their beliefs and instincts regarding a young player's potential and chances for improvement all the time. And given that Marc, in his second year, appears to be at least as good as Pau was in his second year, it seems pretty obvious that the instincts regarding Marc were spot on.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Comparing Haywood to Gasol is nice. But compare how Gasol is incorporated into the offensive gameplan of his Team as to the way Haywood is incorporated in this one by the Wizards.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 12, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

"The DC metro area is a great place to move to. Period. We're not talking Memphis, Charlotte or OKC."

I wish a few more college-age athletes agreed with you. They seem to prefer State College PA, Syracuse, Champaign, Chapel Hill, Austin --- heck, just about any place except College Park.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 12, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

And you don't think talk matters when teams are negotiating a deal? Of course it does. Teams talk about players all the time. They talk about whether they have the potential to be a star or just a role player. It was a widely held consensus that Jefferson had All-Star talent prior to the Garnett deal, which is why Minnesota was willing to deal Garnett for him. Name one young player on the Wizards at the time who came close to falling into that category. Hell, name one now.

I don't recall ANYONE saying at the time the trade was made that Marc Gasol was a future all-star. He was a throw-in by most accounts.

And, again, name one team at the time Arenas and Jamison were FAs who was in the right place to be willing to deal a potential young all-star for nothing. No one's asking you to predict the future here. It's all in the past and the evidence is easily found. Just look back at the circumstances and tell us one team that made a deal that at that time that suggests that the Wizards could have snagged a young future all-star for cap room.

I wasn't aware of the NBA rule that surely requires you to use up all your cap space AS SOON AS you get it. Or maybe the rule requires that you only create cap space when a young future all-star is available that year?
My point is teams are allowed to spend their money at a time and place of their choosing. Like, for example, a year or two after they create the space.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

And, again, name one team at the time Arenas and Jamison were FAs who was in the right place to be willing to deal a potential young all-star for nothing. No one's asking you to predict the future here. It's all in the past and the evidence is easily found. Just look back at the circumstances and tell us one team that made a deal that at that time that suggests that the Wizards could have snagged a young future all-star for cap room.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

It doesn't have to be "at that time". You don't spend money just because you don't have a better alternative at that very moment. Well, if good deals weren't abundant then, which is questionable considering we don't have inside access that GM's do, cap space is king for subsequent years as it can be traded for other team's players when they are shedding salaries. There are several teams nowadays that are struggling financially and are supposedly willing to dump their players for nothing but cap relief.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

There's no guarantee that any player will ever get better. But the fact remains that teams make personnel decisions based on their beliefs and instincts regarding a young player's potential and chances for improvement all the time. And given that Marc, in his second year, appears to be at least as good as Pau was in his second year, it seems pretty obvious that the instincts regarding Marc were spot on.


What instincts?
Do you have any quotes from Memphis brass immediately after the trade was made suggesting that Marc was the key to the trade or anything more than filler?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

My personal favorite post of last night:

And you asked me to name players that we could have acquired and I will give you a few examples.
1) Golden State really wanted Gil and was ready to sign him to a big contract, couldn't EG have mastered a sign and trade that would have landed us Monta Ellis (a much cheaper, healthier and better version of Arenas), Randolph (a very good 4 with unlimited upside), a pick....
2) Sac also wanted Gil, couldn't EG got them to surrender Thompson (a rugged young 4 that we desperately need) Garcia or even Kevin Martin.
3) Could the clips have given us Kaman and Gordon?
4) Can't any team that's trying to shed salary (and that includes about half the league) trade one or a couple of their best players for our abundant cap space? You do know that's perfectly feasible, right?........
These are just a few examples, when you have cap space that you are willing to spend and a competent mind, the possibilities are endless...

Congrats Utilityman...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"My point is teams are allowed to spend their money at a time and place of their choosing. Like, for example, a year or two after they create the space."

Anyone with half a brain knows that that wasn't going to happen. Pollin was a sick old man who knew his clock was ticking. He was determined to try and go for it all right away. Any deals he signed off on would have had to further a goal of winning a title in the short-term. He had no interest in rebuilding. So the only way he would have let Arenas and Jamison walk was if doing so was an immediate prelude to a deal that would have resulted in the team being better that it would be with the two of them on board and healthy. Discussing it under any other parameters is wishful thinking.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Congrats Utilityman...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Thanks SDMDTSU, I am glad you finally got a grain of sense back, I was really worried about you.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I suggest the ownership and coaching staff work on the team's execution.

They could start with Arenas. Then they could shoot Crittenton. The other players, seeing what had happened, might improve their work ethic.

Posted by: observer9 | January 12, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

How can one of the top international big men be filler?

“This deal provides us with a significant amount of assets – two first round picks, the draft rights to Pau’s brother Marc, who has emerged into the top big man in Spain, a talented young point guard in Crittenton and a sizeable amount of salary cap room over the next few years.”

Doesn't sound like filler to me...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Anyone with half a brain knows that that wasn't going to happen. Pollin was a sick old man who knew his clock was ticking. He was determined to try and go for it all right away. Any deals he signed off on would have had to further a goal of winning a title in the short-term. He had no interest in rebuilding. So the only way he would have let Arenas and Jamison walk was if doing so was an immediate prelude to a deal that would have resulted in the team being better that it would be with the two of them on board and healthy. Discussing it under any other parameters is wishful thinking.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Once again, Pollin main goal was to win a championship and a good GM would have eloquently told him that Gil isn't the type of player that's the centerpiece of a championship team. However, especially based on recent accounts, it sure does look like EG fully supported his ailing boss' wish and agreed with him considering he thought Arenas was Godsent and gave him carte blanche to act and behave any way he wanted, and that was before he gave him that contract. He even undermined EJ's authority to side with a player that was destabilizing the team. Once again, that was before he gave him that contract citing the fact that Gil won a ton of games for us.
And btw, that attitude from the GM is the main reason why the current situation aggravated to this point and he should be held accountable.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 12, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Anyone with half a brain knows that that wasn't going to happen. Pollin was a sick old man who knew his clock was ticking. He was determined to try and go for it all right away. Any deals he signed off on would have had to further a goal of winning a title in the short-term. He had no interest in rebuilding. So the only way he would have let Arenas and Jamison walk was if doing so was an immediate prelude to a deal that would have resulted in the team being better that it would be with the two of them on board and healthy. Discussing it under any other parameters is wishful thinking.

The Pollin angle is a different argument. That said, only someone with half a brain could see the re-signing of Jamison and Arenas as leading to a better outcome than that which they had accomplished previously. They were never a championship caliber team. NEVER.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"Do you have any quotes from Memphis brass immediately after the trade was made suggesting that Marc was the key to the trade or anything more than filler?"

Do you have any quotes from the Grizzlies suggesting anything either way? Nope. So that's another straw man in the barn.

What we do have, however, are the facts of history.

Fact A: They traded for him. As an unsigned 2nd round pick, he had no monetary value at all in a trade, so his inclusion in the trade was not required for cap purposes, for either team (i.e., the Lakers didn't have to trade him to get him off their cap and the Grizzlies didn't have to trade for him to make the deal work). Clearly the Grizzlies insisted on him being included because they wanted him, as a player. There was no other reason for him to be "thrown in" as you put it.

Fact B: As a 2nd round pick, he was not guaranteed a contract or a roster spot, yet the Grizzlies signed him to a guaranteed 3 year deal in July of '08, in advance of the opening of summer league or training camp. Now, why would they do that if they didn't believe he had the potential to be a significant player? Esp. given that that they'd just executed a trade designed to shed salary? Again, they saw something in him that made them think he was worth having and wanted to lock him up.

If that's not clear evidence that they believed in his potential, I don't know what is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

How can one of the top international big men be filler?

“This deal provides us with a significant amount of assets – two first round picks, the draft rights to Pau’s brother Marc, who has emerged into the top big man in Spain, a talented young point guard in Crittenton and a sizeable amount of salary cap room over the next few years.”

Doesn't sound like filler to me...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 10:18 A

You're funny, SDMDTSU. The same has been said many, many big men in Europe and they have flopped MISERABLY in the NBA.
What your quote does NOT say is, "Marc will become an all star. He's every bit as good as his brother, Pau and is really the key to this trade as our instincts tell us HE'S THE REAL DEAL."

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

"The Pollin angle is a different argument. "

Hardly. It's central to thee entire discussion. He owned the team, he set the agenda, he signed the checks. Grunfeld could only make deals that Pollin allowed him to make. And Pollin was not about to let him blow the team up, because he knew he probably wouldn't be around the see it pay off.

None of this falls under the heading of "new business" of course. Therse are well-known and generally understood facts.

"They were never a championship caliber team. NEVER."

I agree. But that's clearly not what Pollin thought or wanted to believe, and it has his belief that drove the direction of the franchise. Arguing that they should have made deals contrary to his beliefs is a fool's game, because as the owner, there wasn't a chance in hell that any deals contrary to his beliefs were going to be made. Period.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Fact B: As a 2nd round pick, he was not guaranteed a contract or a roster spot, yet the Grizzlies signed him to a guaranteed 3 year deal in July of '08, in advance of the opening of summer league or training camp. Now, why would they do that if they didn't believe he had the potential to be a significant player? Esp. given that that they'd just executed a trade designed to shed salary? Again, they saw something in him that made them think he was worth having and wanted to lock him up.

Funny!

Peter John Ramos was second rounder who snagged a guaranteed contract, too, so let's not pretend it's exceedingly rare.
Further, Marc had leverage because he could've easily played overseas and Memphis badly needed a true center.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Fact A: They traded for him. As an unsigned 2nd round pick, he had no monetary value at all in a trade, so his inclusion in the trade was not required for cap purposes, for either team (i.e., the Lakers didn't have to trade him to get him off their cap and the Grizzlies didn't have to trade for him to make the deal work). Clearly the Grizzlies insisted on him being included because they wanted him, as a player. There was no other reason for him to be "thrown in" as you put it.

He's a throw in the sense that he was not considered the major component of the trade from any of the accounts I've read.
You're stating as a fact that the Grizzlies INSISTED on Marc being included in the deal, but you don't know what they would've settled for, do you?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

"Once again, Pollin main goal was to win a championship and a good GM would have eloquently told him that Gil isn't the type of player that's the centerpiece of a championship team."

To which Pollin would have said, "Fine. Then who can we get who will help us win a title in the near term? Because I'm an old man with a debilitating disease and I'm not going to be around much longer and I don't have time to wait 2-4 years for some rebuilding project to pay off. Unless we can get someone who will make us better right away than a healthy Arenas and Jamison, then we're staying the course."

"it sure does look like EG fully supported his ailing boss' wish"

You say that like he had a choice. What was he going to do? Not re-sign Arenas against Pollin's wishes? How would that work, exactly? Abe may not have been in the best off shape, but I'm pretty sure he would have noticed that and had something to say about it. Newsflash: Pollin owned the team. Grunfeld was not going to be able to make any deals without the boss's approval. No GM is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

You're funny, SDMDTSU. The same has been said many, many big men in Europe and they have flopped MISERABLY in the NBA.
What your quote does NOT say is, "Marc will become an all star. He's every bit as good as his brother, Pau and is really the key to this trade as our instincts tell us HE'S THE REAL DEAL."

Okay. You can bring a horse to water....

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

I agree. But that's clearly not what Pollin thought or wanted to believe, and it has his belief that drove the direction of the franchise. Arguing that they should have made deals contrary to his beliefs is a fool's game, because as the owner, there wasn't a chance in hell that any deals contrary to his beliefs were going to be made. Period.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:32 AM

It's also a fool's game to pretend that the Wizards had no other choice but to reisign those two. Pollin obviously wanted it to happen and it did. Two different facts.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Okay. You can bring a horse to water....


Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 12, 2010 10:41 AM

But you can't persuade him with a generic quote...

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

"there is no guarantee that the Wizard's will luck into the NBA equivalent of Alex Ovetchkin.Posted by: thomas_kecskes"

No, there isn't. We could probably find ourselves another Oly Pecherov, though.

Even when you draw a franchise type, they can get hurt a la Greg Oden. About this John Wall at Kentucky, this year's phenom: a wondrous athlete without much of a jumper, let alone a three pointer. Does the club that drafts first count on him developing one after he turns pro, or switch over to the dribble drive motion offense so he doesn't need one?

As far as big centers, there's not even a Thabeet out there this season.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 12, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"He's a throw in the sense that he was not considered the major component of the trade from any of the accounts I've read. "

I never said he was "the major component" did I? I said they traded for him because they felt he would be a good enough player that he could fill Pau's spot. And their actions leading up to and subsequent to the trade bear that out.

"You're stating as a fact that the Grizzlies INSISTED on Marc being included in the deal, but you don't know what they would've settled for, do you?"

If they were willing to "settle" then they wouldn't have taken him in the first place. Unless the Grizzlies wanted him, there was no reason for him to be included in the deal. He added nothing financially, so there was no cap need to include him. Had he not been signed he likely would have continued playing overseas. And the fact that they immediately signed him to a 3-year guaranteed deal (an extreme rarity for a second round pick) is prima facie proof of how much they valued him as a player which.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"It's also a fool's game to pretend that the Wizards had no other choice but to reisign those two. Pollin obviously wanted it to happen and it did."

Of course Pollin wanted it to happen. And the fact that he wanted it to happen meant that Grunfeld had no other choice but to do it. (Unless you consider getting fired for ignoring a direct order from your boss a real choice.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Got cut off:

And the fact that they immediately signed him to a 3-year guaranteed deal (an extreme rarity for a second round pick) is prima facie proof of how much they valued him as a player which underscores the likelihood that his inclusion came at their request, not the Lakers' insistence.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

""You're stating as a fact that the Grizzlies INSISTED on Marc being included in the deal,"

They did. And the Lakers were somewhat reluctant to include him. This is a promising player, and I don't say that simply because of what he did to Javale McGee in a game last season (pushed him all over the court).

The standard for European big men: Arvidas Sabonis and Rik Smits. Gasol isn't quite that good, but he's improving every year.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 12, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

"Peter John Ramos was second rounder who snagged a guaranteed contract, too, so let's not pretend it's exceedingly rare."

And how does citing one example refute its rarity? It's a well-known fact that most 2nd round picks don't get guaranteed deals.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

They did. And the Lakers were somewhat reluctant to include him. This is a promising player, and I don't say that simply because of what he did to Javale McGee in a game last season (pushed him all over the court).

The standard for European big men: Arvidas Sabonis and Rik Smits. Gasol isn't quite that good, but he's improving every year.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 12, 2010 10:51 AM

Can prove they insisted and the Lakers were reluctant. If so, please provide a link from a creditable rag.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Make that:

It's a well-known fact that most 2nd round picks don't get multi-year guaranteed deals.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

And how does citing one example refute its rarity? It's a well-known fact that most 2nd round picks don't get guaranteed deals.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:53 A

But some do. An when they do, it doesn't mean they consider the guy the second coming.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

"But some do. An when they do, it doesn't mean they consider the guy the second coming."

How many second round picks have gotten 3-year guaranteed contracts directly out of the draft in the last decade?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

And the straw man count piles up.

No one said anything about "the second coming." But the fact that they gave him a 3-year guaranteed deal is clear proof that they valued him highly as a player, which is a clear refutation of your characterization of him as a "throw in" and as "peanuts, junk, trash, etc."

Your arms must be pretty tired from moving those goal posts all over the field.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

And does it strike anyone else as . . . "interesting" that a guy who keeps demanding people post quotes and links to support their points hasn't included a single supportive quote or link in any of his posts?

Hmmm . . . I think there's a word for that. "hypo" something, I think it is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

No one said anything about "the second coming." But the fact that they gave him a 3-year guaranteed deal is clear proof that they valued him highly as a player, which is a clear refutation of your characterization of him as a "throw in" and as "peanuts, junk, trash, etc."

Your arms must be pretty tired from moving those goal posts all over the field.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 11:01 AM

Actually your making the goal posts AND moving them.
Here is my point which I have allowed you to veer away from.

Pau is better than Marc. FACT.
Marc was never the centerpiece of the trade. FACT.
A team (Memphis) got rid of its franchise player for lessers. FACT.

Steady enough for you??

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

And does it strike anyone else as . . . "interesting" that a guy who keeps demanding people post quotes and links to support their points hasn't included a single supportive quote or link in any of his posts?

Hmmm . . . I think there's a word for that. "hypo" something, I think it is.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 11:04 AM

Did you not say yourself that if the Grizzlies were not on the block, the trade doesn't occur in the manner it did?

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/01/gasol-traded-lakers/

This link makes clear that the trade was done for primarily financial reasons. This was posted right after the trade. No one mentions Marc as being a significant part of the trade, a diamond-in-the-rough, etc.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

"This link makes clear that the trade was done for primarily financial reasons."

You say that like it's news. No one is disputing that it was done for mainly financial reasons. The issue is whether they got nothing but cap space in exchange for Pau (which is what you've been pissing about). The answer, clearly, is "no." They got a player that they clearly desired who has turned out to be a go-to big man. You say the Wizards could have made a similar deal? Then who was the young player that they could have included in such a deal? Who was the player that some team wanted as much as the Grizzlies clearly wanted Marc Gasol?

"Pau is better than Marc. FACT."

So? Of course Pau is better now, he's an 8-9 year vet and Marc is in his second year. That's not exactly a revelation, son. No one said that Pau wasn't better than Marc right now. But the Grizzlies clearly weren't interest in "right now" when they made the deal. They were building for the future. The question was whether Marc could end up being as good as Pau. He can and is clearly on the way there.

"Marc was never the centerpiece of the trade. FACT."

I never said he was. What I did say (and what I have supported with evidence you haven't even made a dent in) is that Marc was a player whose potential the Grizzlies wanted and pursued, thus refuting your contention that they got nothing but cap space and "trash, junk, etc" for Pau. They got a very good player that they clearly wanted and who is already paying dividends.

"A team (Memphis) got rid of its franchise player for lessers. FACT."

Pau Gasol was not a "franchise player." Was he the best player on the Grizzlies? Yep, by a country mile. And what did that get them? Three seasons in which they failed to win 25 games followed by three first round playoff exits. He's a legit All-Star player but he's not nearly good enough to be the best player on a title contending team. That's what a franchise player is and Pau Gasol isn't it. And pointing out they got less back is just the latest straw man in the parade. Of course they got less back, immediately. A team that trades it's best veteran player for young talent almost always gets less back immediately. But, as has been established, a team that makes a deal like that is focusing on the future, not the right now.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 12, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Nothing but double talk from you, kalo-rama.

I thought you said Memphis INSISTED on Marc being included in the deal? Have you managed to uncover that nugget in a news link? Or is that straw man causing you more grief than relief?

I said the Gasol trade was one-sided in terms of talent. That remains a fact.
Pau is simply better than his brother.

Posted by: artiesliver | January 12, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

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