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Some more answers on Arenas

Gilbert Arenas's guilty plea on Friday to felony possession of a firearm has left the franchise in flux between now and his sentencing on March 26. The Washington Wizards will probably look like a completely different team, with President Ernie Grunfeld still moving forward with his plans to make some moves before the Feb. 18 trade deadline. The only problem is that Grunfeld has received terrible offers from other teams hoping to raid the coffers for a pittance. So he could hold on for a while to see how the team plays with Mike Miller back.

The victories over Sacramento and Portland have been good for morale during the past month, but the Wizards can no longer use the inferior Eastern Conference as a crutch for continued poor play. Teams in the East are slowly getting better while the Wizards find themselves 4 ½ games out of the playoffs, which would require a magical run over the next few weeks. And this tumultuous season has been completely void of any magic, other than the black kind.

The Wizards have continued the process of "not phasing Gilbert out" by removing his pictures from the media room, including the photograph from his buzzer-beater against Utah on MLK Day 2007 that greeted people upon their entrance. Arenas's photographs still can be found in the halls just outside the locker room, and along the wall just outside the practice court.

There are several questions surrounding Arenas and the Wizards as the next few weeks play out, so I decided to take on a few:

Q: Can the Wizards void Arenas's deal?
A: That has been the sexy speculation over the past few weeks, but that would be a difficult proposition if Arenas does not receive jail time. If Arenas does get jail time, they might have a stronger case under Clause 16 of the NBA's Uniform Player Contract, which allows teams to terminate a deal if a player would "at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to conform his personal conduct to standards of good citizenship, good moral character (defined here to mean not engaging in acts of moral turpitude, whether or not such acts would constitute a crime), and good sportsmanship..."

I've discussed plenty of times how the Golden State Warriors voided Latrell Sprewell's contract after he attacked P.J. Carlesimo. The players' union filed a grievance for Sprewell and an independent arbitrator reinstated his contract on the grounds that the Warriors lacked just cause for utilizing Clause 16. Arenas brought guns to the arena, which is a felony, but players have committed far more heinous crimes and been allowed to hold on to their money.

Q: Will the Wizards try to terminate his contract anyway?
A: I talked to one agent who said he wouldn't be shocked if the Wizards decided to attempt to void Arenas's contract because "this is the same franchise that [expletive] Michael Jordan." From conversations that I've had with people in the organization, the Wizards don't consider that a realistic option because of the legal fight that would surely follow.

I've also been told that the Wizards haven't started discussing that option, especially since the legal process has yet to be completed. But it is really hard to find a credible source at this time, with so many people having interests to protect. The fact remains that Washington may be forced to welcome back Arenas.

If the Wizards took that route, they would have to place Arenas on waivers and then terminate his contract after he clears waivers (and that shouldn't be a problem with Arenas's humongous deal). I've talked to several people around the league who told me that if the Wizards went after Arenas's deal, they had better win, because of the damage it would cause with current players and future free agents. Don't think for a minute that other players aren't closely monitoring this situation and taking notes on how the franchise has reacted to Arenas the past few weeks. But it is an option the Wizards may have to consider with the relationship between the player and the organization seemingly irrevocably damaged.

Arenas may also find it difficult to have the players' union fighting especially hard for him, with the collective bargaining agreement -- which Arenas violated by bringing guns to Verizon Center -- expiring in 2011. The union might not want to exhaust its resources in one fight, when several more of greater interest to the other 400 or so players may have to take precedence in the coming year.

Q: What other options do the Wizards have to part ways with Arenas?
A: Trading is always the first option, but a difficult one, considering the size of Arenas's contract and the fact that he doesn't have an agent to negotiate a deal on his behalf (Word is that Arenas is starting to rekindle his relationship with former agent Dan Fegan, with whom he remains relatively close). Arenas remains an extremely talented player, but not one who currently warrants a deal worth $80 million over the next four years.

The Wizards certainly cannot move him at the trade deadline, since he might not return before the season ends. But this summer might be interesting, with several teams already clearing up cap space for the 2010 free agent class. Would a team that misses on LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh or Joe Johnson, take a run at Arenas? The Wizards would certainly have to explore that if they are unable to terminate his deal.

The other possibility is negotiating a buyout. The Boston Celtics attempted to break ties with Vin Baker, who violated the terms of his alcoholism treatment program on three occasions and was suspended indefinitely in 2004. Unable to terminate his deal, the Celtics settled on a buyout, in which Baker received $16 million of the $35 million remaining on his deal. From what I've heard, both sides would like to go their separate ways, but the tricky thing about a buyout is how that money would work against the salary cap, setting up another round of troubles. They could actually get rid of Arenas and still be hamstrung over the next four years by his cap number.

So what am I saying here? This divorce is necessary but far from simple.

By Michael Lee  |  January 19, 2010; 11:59 AM ET
 
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Comments

However the situation between Arenas and the Wizards plays out, one thing is certain: it's going to be troublesome, ugly and expensive, and it's going to hamstring the franchise for a long, long time, even if Leonsis does take over the team.

Settle in. It's going to be a rough(er) ride.

Posted by: jcbcmb68 | January 19, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Is leonsis the one having arenas' image erased from the franchises memory? Because all the talk of the franchise not wanting him back is pretty worthless if a new owner and new opinions are in place next week.

you gotta think Leonsis is already guiding some of the action right?

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I think Grunfeld is behind that. He is in "save my own ass" mode.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 19, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

If a corporation can't terminate an employee for detrimental conduct like Arenas - a convicted felon, a moron, a distraction, a bad face for a franchise, a representation that stands 100% contrary to the wholesome image the corporation wants to represent, etc. etc. - then this culture has accepted and embraced the scum of the earth.

Posted by: hock1 | January 19, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

nba, nhl, nfl, and mlb all have active players guilty of assault, wife beating, dui's....but arenas is the "scum of the earth"?

did he poop in your shoes too?

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

ug. go hoyas.

Posted by: doogiex | January 19, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I have posted here MANY times that GILBERT will be the ghost that haunts this franchise for the next four and one-half years. IMHO, he will play again for this franchise until a trade, or buy-out that's feasible can be negotiated, possibly in the summer of 2011. Until then, the WIZ will just have to deal with this abortion they've created.

The POLLIN's and the other owners including LEONSIS and GRUNFELD should be reprimanded just as GA has been. And I don't even like the guy. But he's no less to blame for his actions than the organization is for retaining him, and rewarding him with that crippling contract.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Michael, you might want to do a little fact checking re your comment that the players' union "might not want to exhaust its resources in one fight." As Arenas' exclusive collective bargaining agent, the union is contractually obligated to advocate for Arenas in matters related to provisions of the players' collective bargaining agreement, including disciplinary action. There are a whole lot of lawyers who would jump at the opportunity to argue that the union failed to exercise its fiduciary responsibility in light of the penalties the league has handed down before for more serious violations. Besides, the union and other players have a vested interest in whether the league can impose its will irrespective of the contract between the league and the union and of precedent and past league disciplinary practice.

Posted by: rukidding1 | January 19, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

"If a corporation can't terminate an employee for detrimental conduct like Arenas - a convicted felon, a moron, a distraction, a bad face for a franchise, a representation that stands 100% contrary to the wholesome image the corporation wants to represent, etc. etc. - then this culture has accepted and embraced the scum of the earth.Posted by: hock1"

LOL I feel your pain but I'm not all that sympathetic to the league's position, either. I suspect the Wiz ownership is primarily interested in getting rid of a contract that weighs down the value of the club at a time of impending sale. I'm pretty sure the NBA's motives are even less pure than that. Employers screw employees all the time out here in the real world, and rest assured, if there's a way to dump Gilbert, the club's attorneys will advise them to grab it and run.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

think Grunfeld is behind that. He is in "save my own ass" mode.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 19, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Of that, I have NO doubt!!!!

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

"Michael, you might want to do a little fact checking re your comment that the players' union "might not want to exhaust its resources in one fight." As Arenas' exclusive collective bargaining agent, the union is contractually obligated to advocate for Arenas in matters related to provisions of the players' collective bargaining agreement, including disciplinary action. There are a whole lot of lawyers who would jump at the opportunity to argue that the union failed to exercise its fiduciary responsibility in light of the penalties the league has handed down before for more serious violations. Besides, the union and other players have a vested interest in whether the league can impose its will irrespective of the contract between the league and the union and of precedent and past league disciplinary practice. Posted by: rukidding1"

All very true. Michael is right, however, that the union may not want to take this battle on at the moment. Still, they virtually have to, and they've already let people know it.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

and what was this country built on? scum. Why is everybody more interested in sports scum than country scum?

"discovering a country" and then stealing from the inhabitants. then stealing people to work your land? then fighting between each other about the stolen people? police brutality and corruption. political corruption. The country being built on religious ideals and beliefs but acting another. Drugs.

You wonder why the country has a lot of violence? Gilbert Arenas is the problem. He took an unloaded gun to the lockerroom.
Void his contract. The country will be a better place.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 19, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

The concept that nobody is going to want to play here after the team has screwed over Arenas should be getting far more attention.

I hope all of you self-proclaimed moralists (read: hypocrites) who are clamoring for the team to get rid of him at any cost are willing to endure a lottery team for the next decade. No player of any stature or skill is going to want to play for an organization that is so quick to turn its back on a player. If you think we stink now, wait until you see the scrubs, has-beens, and never-will-bes who take the court for us in the future.

Meanwhile a rejuvenated Gilbert will probably play for the veteran minimum and win a championship somewhere else.

Posted by: bryc3 | January 19, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

About Boswell's article on the Wiz' history of substandard performance: maybe I'm just a bad fan, but I enjoyed the team during those salad years under Ed Jordan. I never for a minute believed that was a team that could beat a top club for an NBA title, figuring that if Phoenix and Dallas couldn't pull it off, no way the Wiz would ever make it. Still, that was some entertaining basketball from a team that didn't seem to quit when things went wrong (and things went wrong a LOT, didn't they?)

I'm saying if the Wiz had been consistently bad through the decade, Washington fans wouldn't have been as disgusted by their performance last season and this. The Wiz built expectations, and we the fans let ourselves get carried away with them.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

LOL I feel your pain but I'm not all that sympathetic to the league's position, either. I suspect the Wiz ownership is primarily interested in getting rid of a contract that weighs down the value of the club at a time of impending sale. I'm pretty sure the NBA's motives are even less pure than that. Employers screw employees all the time out here in the real world, and rest assured, if there's a way to dump Gilbert, the club's attorneys will advise them to grab it and run.


Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm in complete accord whith this take as well. I'm going to enjoy watching the organization who made this bed, writhe and squirm to escape it. In a way, I actually empathize with GILBERT for allying himself with such a self-debased group of managers. But hell, if I had 11 million thrust at me, I take it and deal with the consequences later.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

"I talked to one agent who said he wouldn't be shocked if the Wizards decided to attempt to void Arenas's contract because "this is the same franchise that [expletive] Michael Jordan."

"I've talked to several people around the league who told me that if the Wizards went after Arenas's deal, they had better win, because of the damage it would cause with current players and future free agents. Don't think for a minute that other players aren't closely monitoring this situation and taking notes on how the franchise has reacted to Arenas the past few weeks."

I've been responding to all the negative post (saying void Gil's deal) on this site and other websites saying the same thing just report (see above). If the Wiz go after Gil's deal who's going to come here with our history of firing MJ, shipping C. Webb out to no mans land, shipping R. Wallace out of after a few mistakes, trying to screw J. Howard on his rookie deal, bad stabbing John Nash and not wanting to pay Earl the Pearl.

We now have proof that at least one player in Boston thinks the Wiz treatment of Gil is wrong.

However, I can't believe this latest story that the Wiz are not planning to go after Gil's deal. Actions speak louder that words and their actions have been very clear.

Posted by: 33dgriffin | January 19, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

A buyout does not need to hamper the Wiz for a long time. If each side gives some, then the ordeal is over, and both sides can go their separate ways.

The amount of the buyout can be included as part of the deal to transfer the team. Maybe the new ownership and current ownership will share this burden. Salary cap consequences need to be accounted for, but it sounds like a one year hit. When this is done, the Wiz under new ownership can start the rebuilding process.

As far as moving the other players, I hope the Wiz begin to do what helps them contend for it all in three, four, five or more years. That should be the standard, instead of doing what it takes to be respectable in the near future. The "respectability now" approach has been the MO of the Wiz (and Skins) for years, and it almost never works.

The formula is easy: collect high draft picks and trade vets for youth. Before long, a critical mass of young talent will bring excitement to DC. This path almost always works to at least some extent (Portland, Atlanta--and the Caps).

Posted by: EdDC | January 19, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

111 million. You know what I meant.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz built expectations, and we the fans let ourselves get carried away with them.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Evidently some folks' expectations are greater than others SAM. On a National Holiday, we had 12,000+ down in the phone booth. We watched great effort defeat a mediocre team. That's good enough for me. I just hated the years in the recent past when the team was obviously better than their level of play indicated.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

nba, nhl, nfl, and mlb all have active players guilty of assault, wife beating, dui's....but arenas is the "scum of the earth"?
I agree with Divi3, There are far worse crimes comitted by players in all the leagues but this is out of hand, Im a longtime wizards fan and if Gil goes the Wiz will be bad for a long time.

Posted by: wizardsfan | January 19, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Let's go back to life before Gilbert. Who do you remember:

Steve Colter
Charles Jones
Manute Bol
Darryl Walker
Muggsy Bogues
Wes Matthews SR
Don Collins
Brent Price
Tom Hammonds
Mitchell Butler
LaBradford Smith
Terry Catledge
Darwin Cook
Mel Turpin
Darren Daye
A. J. English
Chris Whitney
Leon Wood
Haywood Workman
Doug Overton
Greg Foster
Robert Pack

We don't need Gilbert.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 19, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"and what was this country built on? scum. Why is everybody more interested in sports scum than country scum? "

I see a new book: "History of the United States as a Collection of Scum". Shortlisted for the Pulitzer, no doubt...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"The formula is easy: collect high draft picks and trade vets for youth. Before long, a critical mass of young talent will bring excitement to DC. This path almost always works to at least some extent (Portland, Atlanta--and the Caps).Posted by: EdDC"

Didn't the Celts do pretty much the opposite? They accumulated a bunch of promising kids who couldn't win and traded them for vets.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

G-Man11, None of those players mentioned could carry Gil's sneakers.

Posted by: wizardsfan | January 19, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Wizards’ owner, Abe Pollin, presented the maximum salary for a player of Arenas’s tenure: he could take the money ($125-127 million) and Washington would be unable to afford the complementary core players around him, or he could accept less and some of the players could stay.

In the end, Arenas settled for less, but not much: six years and $111 million.

We forget that Gil cudda grabbed it all and be starting with Young, Mcguire, Deshawn & Oberto. He left some money on the table so Jamison could be re signed.
Yeah it was "only" 5 or 6 million.
What would you have done?

Posted by: VBFan | January 19, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

111 million. You know what I meant.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 12:48 PM

I hate to split hairs with you but it is not 111 million all that is left on his contract is 80 million

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Make that

Yeah it was "only" 15 or 16 million.
What would you have done

Posted by: VBFan | January 19, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

hate to split hairs with you but it is not 111 million all that is left on his contract is 80 million

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Read, read. Was I talking about what's left or what he signed for? Let's split hairs. Somebody pi**ed in my orange juice today.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

i dont understand how voiding the contract depends on arenas getting jail time. pleading guilty to a felony is pleading guilty to a felony. what difference does it make if he gets jail time or not? and in any case, he most likely IS going to get jail time so it will probably be a mute point.

Posted by: slim4 | January 19, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Read, read. Was I talking about what's left or what he signed for? Let's split hairs. Somebody pi**ed in my orange juice today.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 1:14 PM
And you know what it was probably me because i dont put up with people who discrace the company and I have fired a few in my day for less than what Gilbert did so enjoy the OJ LMFAO

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Did we forget all the things Gil has done for the kids in this community?

For crying out loud, Mark Mcguire used steroids and changed everything about baseball and he got cheered in St Louis.

Gil makes a mistake bringing in a gun and we want to ship him out, We need to keep Gil.

Posted by: wizardsfan | January 19, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

G-Man11, None of those players mentioned could carry Gil's sneakers

thank you, what was that all about?

Posted by: bossclifnpooh2 | January 19, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"

About Boswell's article on the Wiz' history of substandard performance: maybe I'm just a bad fan, but I enjoyed the team during those salad years under Ed Jordan. I never for a minute believed that was a team that could beat a top club for an NBA title, figuring that if Phoenix and Dallas couldn't pull it off, no way the Wiz would ever make it. Still, that was some entertaining basketball from a team that didn't seem to quit when things went wrong (and things went wrong a LOT, didn't they?)

I'm saying if the Wiz had been consistently bad through the decade, Washington fans wouldn't have been as disgusted by their performance last season and this. The Wiz built expectations, and we the fans let ourselves get carried away with them.

Agreed. But, to a large extent, the Eddie Jordan years were like an oasis in the middle of the desert of the team's history. They caught your eye and looked to be a safe harbor, only to be swallowed up by the sand before you could reach your destination. Also, even though the team was both good and entertaining on court, the ongoing wrestling match for control of the team between Jordan and Grunfeld--with players caught in the middle--was, in it's own way, just as reflective of the team's history of fumbling as the 20 win seasons were, given that it was the result of a rather backwards decision by Pollin to hire the coach before the GM when both slots were open.

IT should have been something to build upon, but the shaky foundation at the franchise's core was unable to sustain the weight of even limited success.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 19, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"The formula is easy: collect high draft picks and trade vets for youth. Before long, a critical mass of young talent will bring excitement to DC. This path almost always works to at least some extent (Portland, Atlanta--and the Caps)."

There's nothing "easy" about it. Plenty of teams have tried it, but only the lucky few actually have it pay off. Three examples is far short of "almost always." Also, a big part of the Wizards problem is that they don't have the kind of assets to offer in trade that'll result in real difference makers in return. Their best veteran players, while they have value, are not franchise cornerstones of the kind that teams will give up lottery picks and future all-stars for. All that being said, it's not like the Wizards have much choice. Standing pat isn't going to get them anything.

"Didn't the Celts do pretty much the opposite? They accumulated a bunch of promising kids who couldn't win and traded them for vets."

Exactly. They spent years, after the retirement of Bird and the death of Reggie Lewis, drafting young players who were supposed to be the next great thing. That didn't work out too well.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 19, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I think the organization did over reacted in taking down all Gilbert related items. But I don’t think the organization is over reacting is Gilbert does 1 day in jail, then void he’s contract. That should be the deal breaker you go to jail and we are gong to move on without you. If Gil does not go to jail then he will come back. Who will trade for Gil and his contract? No-one that’s WHO. The question is though if he doesn’t go to jail and the wiz are stuck with him what will be his mind state. Is he coming back goofy and try to continue to run the organization and still refuse to play defense. Then we have a bigger problem. He may come back with revenge but to whom. To the rest of the league or with the Wiz. Would all you Gil supporters out there care and would be willing to find out. For what? because what he did in the pass? because he is a good guy? because what he does in the community?. Gilbert will be fine with out the wizards(we paid enough ,about 100 million since he’s been here)and we will rebound with out him. But imagine if the wiz comes back together with Gil and he acts like a spoiled kid. How long will the franchise be in flux,(pretty long time). So to me the answer is simple he goes to jail you have to terminate his contract.

Gil will be extremely difficult to replace but we would have to move on. Because even if comes back he still may never be the Gil of old again. The pass is indeed the pass, but life is about moving-on not looking back. I would think wants Ted take over he will have a long talk with Gil and once he makes he’s decision I am going to support him because he will know whets best for this franchise. Also I disagree with free agents not wanting to sign here please, Paul Pierce was lucking to get Ray and Kevin, and if they never came to Boston he probably would love to sign here , even while the whole Gil saga goes on.

Posted by: dsquare | January 19, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Didn't the Celts do pretty much the opposite? They accumulated a bunch of promising kids who couldn't win and traded them for vets.
Posted by: Samson151 | January 19, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it can be done, but it is high risk and longshot reward. The Celtics did it, and so did the Yankees. This is a costly strategy, to get a bunch of old guys in the last years of their prime, and hope chemistry happens. Often the old guys just laugh and pocket the money. Ask the Skins if this is a good way to go.

If you stick with the plan to acquire high draft picks and young players in exchange for vets, I would bet that a study would reveal a better chance for success. Once you get the critical mass of talented youth, you can always add a free agent who gets you to the top. But it would be foolish for the Wiz to think they are anywhere close to this stage of team-building now.

Early Leonsis: Buy the aging vet superstar.

Mature Leonsis: Build with youth.

Posted by: EdDC | January 19, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

To think Gilbert could have avoided this if he had only stayed away from Twitter. Apart from helping spread news of natural disasters, what good has come out of twitter? Especially for athletes?

Posted by: tundey | January 19, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"maybe I'm just a bad fan, but I enjoyed the team during those salad years under Ed Jordan. I never for a minute believed that was a team that could beat a top club for an NBA title, figuring that if Phoenix and Dallas couldn't pull it off, no way the Wiz would ever make it."

a bad fan wouldnt have enjoyed that time. Gil was what, 23 and tearing the league up? The sky was in actuality the limit over the next 10yrs- but The Curse took care of that.

I remember spilling out of the arena after some of the games where Arenas hit another buzzer beater or went for 50...thousands of people in the street and energized for the team.

WE FINALLY GOTS ONE

and we did have one, but apparently that's not enough to actually get'er done, because here we are back at square negative 3 with nuttin but bad times on the horizon

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

"If you stick with the plan to acquire high draft picks and young players in exchange for vets, I would bet that a study would reveal a better chance for success"

imo, the study would indicate that anything less than acquiring a bona-fide franchise cornerstone is just pissing in the wind. And that getting such players is usually luck, and will DEFINITELY require pure luck for the wiz to get one.

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

G-Man11, None of those players mentioned could carry Gil's sneakers

thank you, what was that all about?

Posted by: bossclifnpooh2

The point was to remember what it was like before Gil. The answer was it was real sad. Since the mid to late 70's "opera isn't over until the fat lady sings" era, Gil's era was better than anything since then. It was better than C-Webb and Jordan, better than Jordan and Rip or Stackhouse. No we didn't do a lot of damage in the playoffs but the excitement was there and so was optimism if it weren't for the injuries. Now if they ax Gil, we are back to those bums listed, you just change the names. Back to the 80's. Keep in mind, they are not axing Gil without trading Caron and Antawn for cap-space and draft picks that will no doubt be lottery protected.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 19, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"If you stick with the plan to acquire high draft picks and young players in exchange for vets, I would bet that a study would reveal a better chance for success"

imo, the study would indicate that anything less than acquiring a bona-fide franchise cornerstone is just pissing in the wind. And that getting such players is usually luck, and will DEFINITELY require pure luck for the wiz to get one.

The above was posted by div13.

My response is that if you flood your team with young players--high draft picks in particular but also talented young vets--like Sacramento and Phoenix did a few years ago, and like Atlanta and Portland are doing now, what happens is that you maximize your odds that a few of those guys will be really good. You have to sort through a bunch of them to find the gems, but you will find them.

If you just go out and buy old guys, it is harder for that to work. Yes, the Celts got Kevin Garnett, but how often can you depend on doing that?

A number of years ago, the Wiz traded their top pick for Mark Price, an old PG with bad feet. If they had hung on to their pick, the could have drafted Kobe with that pick. The Wiz have for years tried the strategy of trading youth for old guys like Mitch Richmond and Rod Strickland, but it seldom works. This year's team is a good example of the "respectability now" approach, instead of building. It's like trying for a C. Sometimes you get an F when you do that.

Posted by: EdDC | January 19, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

the wiz have tried all the strategies and all have failed.

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Let's go back to life before Gilbert. Who do you remember:

Steve Colter
Charles Jones
Manute Bol
Darryl Walker
Muggsy Bogues
Wes Matthews SR
Don Collins
Brent Price
Tom Hammonds
Mitchell Butler
LaBradford Smith
Terry Catledge
Darwin Cook
Mel Turpin
Darren Daye
A. J. English
Chris Whitney
Leon Wood
Haywood Workman
Doug Overton
Greg Foster
Robert Pack

We don't need Gilbert.

Posted by: G-Man11


How could you forget Rod and God?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 19, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

"........discrace........" the company and I have fired a few in my day for less than what Gilbert did so enjoy the OJ LMFAO

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Learn how to spell as well as read LAMO. I've fired a few in my time as well, hot shot. And probably would for what ARENAS has done, except I would have done it the day he said, "If JAMISON goes so do I."

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Arenas brought guns to the arena, which is a felony, but players have committed far more heinous crimes and been allowed to hold on to their money.
--------

Just curious, what are the far most heinous crimes that players have committed?

Arenas and Critt were trash talking, it got out of hand, he brought the guns to the arena, not as a joke, but to make a statement, Critt loaded his gun allegedly.

I mean shots could have rang out, this is serious serious stuff. It's not the goofing around that Arenas tried to have everyone believe.

Posted by: DJosiris | January 19, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Let's be honest here, the team was stupid for giving him a max deal. No way is / was he worth $100m. I believe Abe was trying to do the best thing he could to win a Championship before he died. I wonder how much of a fight Ernie put up NOT to sign him? If the Buzzards can get out of this contract, do it! He's had 5 knee surgeries and it definitely not the sample player he once was. The one thing this team has lacked for the last 10 years is inside scoring. Haywood has gotten better, but I'd rather see Bosh down low. Arenas refuses to grow up, I mean, how stupid can you be to bring guns to work and then joke about it on tv before your game. Seriously, Are you really that stupid?? Guess so. No matter how much money a person makes, it can't buy you common sense!

Posted by: Toochilled | January 19, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Keep Gilbert and make him come off the bench. He is more valuable as a sixth man than as a starter. What ever happens do not keep him in at the end of games if you need clutch free throws! If he does not like the set up then he should buy himself out of the contract.

Posted by: JohnWWW | January 19, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I talked to one agent who said he wouldn't be shocked if the Wizards decided to attempt to void Arenas's contract because "this is the same franchise that [expletive] Michael Jordan."

Give me an [expletive] break. This is the same MJ who (as Boswell's article makes clear) drafted Bust-of-the-Century Kwame Brown without knowing the most basic details about his immediate family history and problems that you would ask if you were hiring him for a minimum wage job, let alone overall No. 1 pick.

This franchise didn't [expletive] MJ the player, it [expletive] MJ the exec, who was the equivalent in terms of his skills in that job to Will Ferrell the ballplayer. They should have [expletive]'d him earlier....

You can make a much more persuasive argument that, just with the Kwame fiasco, it was MJ who [expletive] this franchise.

Posted by: ArchieTambo | January 19, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Well, no matter how strained the relationship is, it behooves the Wizards organization to fix it, because out of all the options (bar voiding, which won't happen), keeping Gilbert in Washington is both the simplest and financially smartest move. All they can trade him for are other bad contracts, but those contracts will be attached to far less talented players. Nothing they can do is going to give them any cap flexibility. Yes, Gilbert's overpaid, but he's still an excellent basketball player, and while he did a very dumb thing, it's hardly the sort of offense that he can never come back from. If the Wizards buy him out, a lot of other teams are going to want to sign him.

Posted by: IrenePollin | January 19, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

PS: So obvious the "mysterious agent" quoted above is The Bird of Prey....

Posted by: ArchieTambo | January 19, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and I'm with ArchieTambo. Whoever thinks the Wiz f'ed MJ is blinded by their love for the man.

Posted by: IrenePollin | January 19, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Dear Gilbert,

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Tiger Woods

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 19, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't Vince Carter's contract expire this season?

I can really see Gil in Orlando man...and that is scary. I really don't wanna see that.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 19, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

All of this talk about accumulating young talent and draft picks is fine but we shouldn't forget that this franchise has a poor record of developing young talent. McGee may end up being another Blatche if the coaching staff doesn't make sure he gets regular playing time, something that should have happened last year. Up to a point, I can understand showcasing players for trades (although you've got to figure the league has a pretty good idea of what AJ, BH and CB can do), but how difficult is it to give McGee 7-12 minutes a game so he can learn from experience?

Posted by: mugsybol | January 19, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

what a freekin mess!

Posted by: boblas | January 19, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Learn how to spell as well as read LAMO. I've fired a few in my time as well, hot shot. And probably would for what ARENAS has done, except I would have done it the day he said, "If JAMISON goes so do I."

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 2:35 PM

Was not a typho WHY should I show a man respect that has none at all for a team that made him a wealthy man then he shat all over them with what he has done

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

What does it take to pry Jamison and Butler from the Wizards? What are the Wizards willing to accept? Ain't nobody giving the wiz a bag of magic beans for them. They want the bag of magic beans from the wiz because Grunfeld already showed his hand.

Posted by: G-Man11 | January 19, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse


A buyout is bad for the Wizards but they might just have to do that. It's a shame if they can't void his contract. It seems the only fair thing for the organization.

Because .. Chances are the Zards have the most to lose here, if they do a buyout, they still lose cap regardless. Then, what .. he goes to another team!? He gets to start over, heck he is losing very little financially and has everything to gain otherwise.

There's no other time that's better for a Leonsis to take over. This place needs an owner that players are going to want to come here and play for (much like a Mark Cuban).

Posted by: boblas | January 19, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

What does it take to pry Jamison and Butler from the Wizards? What are the Wizards willing to accept? Ain't nobody giving the wiz a bag of magic beans for them. They want the bag of magic beans from the wiz because Grunfeld already showed his hand

It takes other teams to at least make a reasonable offer they know other teams are wanting those players that is why nothing will happen till the trade deadline is about to pass

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

If the Tennis Assn can fine Venus Williams 125000 for swearing at a line judge, then the NBA can fine Arenas an amount nearly equal to his pay to stay in the NBA. That might make a separation and salary reduction agreeable to all.

It seems to me that much of this could be avoided if he had been treated like any other felon in the District with one prior gun posession on his record.

This NBA clause "at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to conform his personal conduct to standards of good citizenship, good moral character (defined here to mean not engaging in acts of moral turpitude, whether or not such acts would constitute a crime), and good sportsmanship..." seems fairly clear to me.

Joke or not, he threatened a team mate with a gun (four of them?) , brought firearms into an NBA event (practices are NBA events..) pleaded guilty to a felony... so does someone have to get killed to make this stick? I know that 'saints and angels' are few and far between, but really, I'm really not happy that my ticket dollar goes to support a guy with so little common sense, and a bum knee!

Posted by: Wiz_fan1 | January 19, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"Haywood has gotten better, but I'd rather see Bosh down low. "

The Raptors have been saying the same thing for years.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 19, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

"NBA can fine Arenas an amount nearly equal to his pay to stay in the NBA. That might make a separation and salary reduction agreeable to all."

1)the nba cant fine him anything remotely approaching what he's paid.

2)even if they could, it wouldnt change the salary cap situation for the team

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

the best move may be for Leonsis to grin&bear Arenas for much of next season, as another $20mill(or whatever) comes off his deal and he proves to be a player/contract another team is willing to take.

The acrimony level between the two parties might be too high for that to occur though.

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Any chance the new owner will dump the GM and retain Gil?

Posted by: Gooddad | January 19, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

One option I haven't seen discussed: They renegotiate his contract, but he stays with the Wiz. The Wiz remove the threat of voiding the contract, Gilbert gets to keep a boatload of $.

Is that possible?

Posted by: emrj | January 19, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"One option I haven't seen discussed: They renegotiate his contract, but he stays with the Wiz. The Wiz remove the threat of voiding the contract, Gilbert gets to keep a boatload of $."

I'd guess it would be possible, but what would be the incentive for Gilbert to agree to that deal?


Posted by: nmik | January 19, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

One option I haven't seen discussed: They renegotiate his contract, but he stays with the Wiz. The Wiz remove the threat of voiding the contract, Gilbert gets to keep a boatload of $.

Is that possible?

I doubt it. Contracts get renegotiated all the time in the NFL, but NFL contracts aren't guaranteed like NBA contracts are. I've never heard of it happening in the NBA. In order to negotiate a new contract they'd essentially have to void the original one, which is, of course, the bone of contention to begin with.

And even if it is possible, there's no reason for Arenas to do it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 19, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

"Just curious, what are the far most heinous crimes that players have committed?

Arenas and Critt were trash talking, it got out of hand, he brought the guns to the arena, not as a joke, but to make a statement, Critt loaded his gun allegedly.

I mean shots could have rang out, this is serious serious stuff. It's not the goofing around that Arenas tried to have everyone believe."
Posted by: DJosiris

Well Jayson Williams killed a guy, does that count? Barkley threw a guy through a window. Delonte West was riding around with a mini-arsenal. Stephen Jackson fired off a bunch of rounds in the air during a dispute (he knows bullets have to come down somewhere, right?) Artest went into the stands to beat up a guy. Sprewell choked his coach. Stories have circulated for a while about Charles Oakley beating up players, and I think threatening one with a machete once (ironically a story I read in Jayson Williams' book).

Posted by: ts35 | January 19, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Was not a typho WHY should I show a man respect that has none at all for a team that made him a wealthy man then he shat all over them with what he has done

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

How did you know it was me?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

"Just curious, what are the far most heinous crimes that players have committed?"

Ruben Patterson plead guilty to attempted felony sexual assault (for forcing his kid's nanny to perform oral sex on him) and was required to register as a sex offender wherever he moved. He got a 10-game suspension and played 7 more years in the NBA.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 19, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

How did you know it was me?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 19, 2010 4:07
Because he has already admitted part of it in a court of law and the other he did in front of a tv audience for everyone to see lol enough said

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 19, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

It looks to me that Arenas is going to fight tooth-and-nail any voiding of his contract and the player's association is not going to allow a more definitive "fleshing out" of the moral turpitude clause unless it's negotiated between the owners and the players.

In other words, a long drawn out legal battle will ensue if the Wizards try to void that contract.

And that long battle is something they don't want, Arenas doesn't want, the player's assocation doesn't want and the league doesn't want.

With, dare I say?, a gun to everyone's head, some sort of buyout or compromise will be found.

I'll guess he goes to the Knicks next year with NY taking up half his salary, the Wizards the other half, and some sort of cap relief given.

Posted by: SteveMG | January 19, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

One of the things we have to remember is a long projected legal fight with Arenas over voiding his contract would just about kill this franchise face it,the best thing that can happen is Ted L buys this team and gets Stern to let Gil back on the court and they try to put this situation behind them and move forward.

Posted by: dargregmag | January 19, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Unless EG has already been told by Leonsis that he's being retained, and is working in direct contact with Leonsis right now, it would not seem good for the franchise that EG be authorized to do anything at all right now.

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

To me the bottom line is:
If you or I would have brought weapon(s) into work, regardless of the "jovial intentions" in response to a "threat" only to have the bluff called with another "jovial loading" of one's own locker room theater, we would be on of the 10% of the population looking for employment. It is interesting that when we hear of weapons in the workplace, usuallyt something bad has occured. NOT that the CEO anhd CFO of IBM had a little misunderstanding in the boardroom resulting in "ten paces, turn and fire". The Teams, Unions and fans need to sit back and think "why did the Washington Bullets" change their name origonally...........................? But if the fans,sponsors, networks, and me for that matter for commenting, don't get it, this will occur over and over again nce is the "loaded" respose if "unloaded".

Posted by: tuliptalt | January 19, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

If a corporation can't terminate an employee for detrimental conduct like Arenas - a convicted felon, a moron, a distraction, a bad face for a franchise, a representation that stands 100% contrary to the wholesome image the corporation wants to represent, etc. etc. - then this culture has accepted and embraced the scum of the earth.

Posted by: hock1 | January 19, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I actually feel sorry for people like hock1. They don't have any idea how criminally stupid they are. Referring to Arenas as "the scum of the earth", a man who raised over $2 million dollars for DC public schools; a man who once drove to the DC armory and unloaded tens of thousands of dollars worth of clothing to Hurricane Katrina victims; a man who took in a boy as his little brother who lost both his parents in a tragic fire;

If that is the "scum of the earth" then you sir must be living on a different planet than the rest of us. Again, as I said before, I feel sorry for folks like hock1. They simply don't know how incredibly unintelligent they really are.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 19, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

G-Man11, None of those players mentioned could carry Gil's sneakers.

Posted by: wizardsfan | January 19, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget that Darryl Walker was 120% BAD ASS. I loved watching him break Lambier's face. Talk about Tuff Juice.

Posted by: Blurred | January 19, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Let's go back to life before Gilbert. Who do you remember:

Steve Colter
Charles Jones
Manute Bol
Darryl Walker
Muggsy Bogues
Wes Matthews SR
Don Collins
Brent Price
Tom Hammonds
Mitchell Butler
LaBradford Smith
Terry Catledge
Darwin Cook
Mel Turpin
Darren Daye
A. J. English
Chris Whitney
Leon Wood
Haywood Workman
Doug Overton
Greg Foster
Robert Pack

We don't need Gilbert

Yes, let's blow things up and rebuild. The names mentioned above is what we've had to rebuild with. And you want to go back to those wilderness years.

Posted by: thecomedian1 | January 19, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

To me the bottom line is:
If you or I would have brought weapon(s) into work, regardless of the "jovial intentions" in response to a "threat" only to have the bluff called with another "jovial loading" of one's own locker room theater, we would be on of the 10% of the population looking for employment.

Unless you worked at a plant that had negotiated a deal with your union (UAW - Teamsters - Electricians - Steel workers) that had clearly delineated a path for resolving such issues and that path stipulated a suspension and reinstatement.

Posted by: Blurred | January 19, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

And where is Darvin Ham - owner of the Ham Slam?

Posted by: Blurred | January 19, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

And sexy Rexy Chapman.

Posted by: thecomedian1 | January 19, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

The easy route is to get rid of Gil, but the more creative route is to provide a support structure for his rehab and redemption. He need a strong mentor, he needs a strong agent, and he needs to return from Jail more appreciative of the gifts he's been given. With those qualities, he can be valuable for us as a player, or as trade material for more draft spots. 2~3 years with the 3rd~5th picks would suit us fine as the players in those spots are tearing up the league (ie. James Harden, Tyreke Evans).

Posted by: liveride | January 19, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Well, I went to those exciting playoff games when Gil was going toe to toe with Lebron, yes that was 06 buy I never had more fun...and the crowd buzz on some of the friday nite games.

Posted by: washwiz | January 19, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

People calling Gil the scum of the earth, thug, etc.. don't have a clue. He's just an idiot and a very bad person to have as the cornerstone of your franchise. He gave his employer a way out of his ridiculous contract and the Wizards would be smart to take advantage if they can.

But Gilbert has done alot of good in the community. That shouldn't be forgotten. As far as on the court, I'm just tired of his act and hope we can move in a different direction. But I don't want to see Gilbert go to jail. He has lost enough in this ordeal. Hopefully, he can catch on with another NBA team and get his life on track.

Gil is by no means a thug or any sort of bad guy. But he is an idiot...

Posted by: kevenjones | January 19, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I am not a legal scholar and unlike many of you don't pretend to know whether he will go to jail or not or whether we can void his contract or not.

It sounds like attempting to void the contract may be tough on us in the future - successful or not. That said, there are always players who will go where the money is.

My thought is that the new owner comes in and says "Hey - you know we couldn't be seen as coddling a criminal, but we wanted you all the time. Let's take a step back and get your head straight and then tear up the league together. If we can do that together and you still are pissed off, we'll work a trade. But you've got to get through this next year and be where you were 3 years ago to make that happen. What resources do I need to provide you to make that happen?"

I know...highly unlikely, but it makes the best of a not very good sitch and puts a little responsibility on Gil for his own happiness.

Posted by: Blurred | January 19, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Gil's not coming back, so just get over it. There will be some kind of deal that will let him keep millions and play somewhere else. The Wiz will just have to look for the best way out, hopefully with a decent player in return, although I suspect we'll just end up eating part of his salary.

But we move on. That's the part of the story I'm looking for ... what's next? My guess is that no trade is going down over the next 3-4 weeks, right on up to the trade deadline. There are a lot of teams working to get better position for the free agent bonanza next year, or to tighten up their rotations for the playoff drive.

We shouldn't give up the store, though. This is still a valuable franchise (as Leonsis knows and is dealing with), with a fan base that is hungry for a contender. But PLEASE let's not just try to get guys who "can take over a game." How about some guys who will pass the damned ball, rebound and play defense.

I hope we put ourselves in a position to make a play for Miller, because he IS that kind of player. AND he can shoot the lights out. Foye is worth an investment now and we ought to keep him here. McGee and McGuire also can play team ball, if given an opportunity. Otherwise, clean house.

Bring in some guys who do stuff in the community AND for the team.

Posted by: zinger1 | January 19, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm like Hoffa was in the beginning: for the common working man

I'm no company guy

Having said that, if some FA doesn't want to sign here because he feels this team turned their back on Zero, I say GOOD.

Fact is, tolerating character issues and morons whose talent level cannot surpass their shortcomings has become tiresome. Not just here in DC Sports, but period. No one should pay a guy millions and not expect him to show up to practice and to play and to not bring alot of nonsense and foolishness to his workplace. The paying customer and the paying franchise deserves better. From the drunks, drug addicts, woman beaters, serial babymakers, weapon offenders, etc., we can no longer tolerate your stupidity; we can no longer coddle you and excuse you/make excuses FOR YOU. You are just not worth the hassle.

For every one Rodman who won rings, there are plenty of others who promised much and delivered nothing but problems and embarrassment on themselves, their families, their franchise.

So Zero and CP and whomever else can leave DC on jet powered rollerskates; IDGAF...just get out and take your dumbness with you. And FA who share your mindset should stay away too.

We can't continue to enable and expect them to change for the better.

Posted by: kahlua87 | January 19, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Seems to me that "moral turpitude" would require a common law felony.

So I don't think they can void his contract even if Judge Morin gives him some jail time.

I also agree with all those who have pointed out that the Wizards can't afford to alienate other elite NBA players, by getting into an ugly contract fight.

So it's probably going to take a trade or buy-out to resolve this. Or, just kiss and make up, put his posters back up, bring out the bobble head.


Posted by: PostSubscriber | January 19, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Seems to me that "moral turpitude" would require a common law felony.

I think equally if not more important would be the acceptance of the player's association to that standard.

And I just don't see them accepting any definition without it being negotiated with the owners.

My guess is that the PA and owners left it deliberately vague so as to not prolong negotiations at that time.

Think about it: A team has the power to void a contract? The union is definitely going to want specifics as to when that can be done. No vague stuff.

Posted by: SteveMG | January 19, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

We wait two years for a healthy Arenas. Now we lose him forever because he is a knucklehead?

What is the downside of keeping him? We shipped off Webber and Wallace (Rasheed) and how did that work for us.

Posted by: SonicBlues | January 19, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

RUMOR:

Devin Harris for Caron Butler... what do you think??

Posted by: tony325 | January 19, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

"So I don't think they can void his contract even if Judge Morin gives him some jail time."

if he gets 30 days, stern will probably lift his suspension and then the contract can be voided because he's unavailable to play due to his own transgressions

Posted by: divi3 | January 19, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Ok... First off I feel bad for Flip, his staff, and the likes of the vets like b. haywood (who everyone dogged out, jamison, and butler. I really don't want to see any of the guys who show up game after game traded but I like them to much to make them sit around here and be boned over!

Next Gil is a self-righteous putz we ALL know that but when he was nailing "daggers". I think you give him another shot even if just to tell other free agents hey we stand beside our man and until we can not do it anymore! When you look at what Leonis has done for the Caps he gets the right people in the right situations and if you do not want to be a part of the "right" culture then guess what you are out of here pal! I think that is what people will want to play for an owner who is going to stand by his word and wants to win championships.

Posted by: SkinzFan4lyfe | January 19, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Ok... First off I feel bad for Flip, his staff, and the likes of the vets like b. haywood (who everyone dogged out, jamison, and butler. I really don't want to see any of the guys who show up game after game traded but I like them to much to make them sit around here and be boned over!

Next Gil is a self-righteous putz we ALL know that but when he was nailing "daggers". I think you give him another shot even if just to tell other free agents hey we stand beside our man and until we can not do it anymore! When you look at what Leonis has done for the Caps he gets the right people in the right situations and if you do not want to be a part of the "right" culture then guess what you are out of here pal! I think that is what people will want to play for an owner who is going to stand by his word and wants to win championships.

Posted by: SkinzFan4lyfe | January 19, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

So in short...Make Gil EARN EVERY FREAKING PENNY! Team charity events, speaking engagements, the works. Then if he doesnt fulfill all his requirements he looks like he really doesnt want to play and makes himself less desireable to teams and washington comes out looking pretty for once! Like hey we gave this guy every oppurtunity but he basically spit in our faces!

Plus Shaq was taggin' his girl so cut the man a break! Mayb Critt was in on that action too! Who knows!

Posted by: SkinzFan4lyfe | January 19, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

it may be easier for the new leonsis regime to get rid of the front office personnel and rebuild from the top down while rehabilitating gil, than keeping the culture of mediocrity in place and ditching gilbert.

are all the elite free agents going to equate the pollin-wizards with the leonsis-wizards? only if they continue to do business as usual, and i wouldn't bet big money on that happening.

i doubt many players are going to hold pollin's treatment of michael jordan (an absentee exec clearly more interested in his golf game than building a team) against leonsis when/if he takes over the team.

Posted by: rm0659 | January 19, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

A couple deals that work include Arenas for Brand, Kmart or VC... Gil (with Mike James) for Tmac also works.

Posted by: Darnell1 | January 19, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Anybody got an update on Gilby's playing in the all star game?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 19, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

This team is hideous, even more so with Arenas. Resigning him rates with the numerous management decisions that has plagued this team for decades. Why do you pay a guy 14-16 million per season when he isn't really a true cornerstone (even before his gun incident)? I realize he was injured last season but we paid him over $500,000 per bucket and well over 250,000 per point last year.

He is a west coast guy - see if we can dump him out there. It's a shame Al Davis doesn't have an NBA franchise. I argued profusely with friends in DC when we resigned him. They all said we need him for things like attendance, team morale and fan satisfaction. Well check attendance with or without him - there is no difference on the road or at home. Few guards deserve the sinful paycheck we paid for this clown. Kobe, LeBron , Nash and Dwayne Wade are a few but Arenas was never in that category. I hope that Wizards fans are happy now!

I loved this team since they were in Baltimore and I hate Baltimore teams. There used to be something good about the Bullets (I still hate the Wizards moniker) but the signing of Webber marked the real demise of this team. Three number 1's and Gugliotta for this clown. Signing Howard was just as dumb. We and go after s*itheads like these guys and let valuable assets like the 2 Wallaces and Hamilton (fine players and good citizens) go. Jamison and Butler were good pickups but let's give em a chance for a ring elsewhere and start from scratch. The team's goal has simply been to get to the playoffs in recent years and I can remember when we always went well into the playoffs. Let's get real and rebuild with some young , motivated talent!

Posted by: rickywarner49 | January 20, 2010 2:05 AM | Report abuse

Plus Shaq was taggin' his girl so cut the man a break! Mayb Critt was in on that action too! Who knows!

Posted by: SkinzFan4lyfe | January 19, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Are you sayin' it's catching, like there's somethin' goin' 'round?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 20, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

So Zero and CP and whomever else can leave DC on jet powered rollerskates; IDGAF...just get out and take your dumbness with you. And FA who share your mindset should stay away too.

We can't continue to enable and expect them to change for the better.

Posted by: kahlua87 | January 19, 2010 6:04 PM |

Your point is all well and good but you make the same mistake and seem to be arguing from the same logic that others have that believe that it is largely the players fault why this franchise can't win.

You see, yes you would be correct in not wanting bad character and moronic conduct as a part of your organization.

But there is a proper way to deal with this negativeness. As a organization you have to stand for good character and bad character gets stopped at the door.

When Rasheed Wallace came from Carolina and he played for the Wizards, I was appalled that they allowed him to wear his uniform shorts so big they they were literally falling off his ass on the floor.

Well you can say that Wallace should have known better, but he apparently didn't. It said more to me about the organization than the lack of personal respect that Wallace was showing.

I am a Carolina Fan and that attitude isn't tolerated period, but Wallace felt it was ok with the Wizards.

The Wizards tolerated it and they have never been an upfront disciplined organization. Conduct is a issue that must be understood and required upfront when you walk through the door.

It hasn't been like that with this organization.

Are you aware that the NY Yankees have conduct requirements above that of the League?

The long standing winning organizations have conduct standards that are required of itself when you walk through the door.

Wallace, Webber, you think were great talents, but their conduct sucked and that is why in their prime teams like the Lakers, the Celtics, and San Antonio did not touch them and they could have, if they had wanted them.

Playing tough when things hit the Fan is just knee jerk.

But requiring good professional conduct all along is what the winning organizations have done and still do.

You cannot leave it up to young adults to do this of their own volition, off the court and on the court as well.

Those that continue to believe that it is not the organizations responsibility, but more the responsibility of the young adult will always be perplexed why some organizations keep winning and others like the Wizards don't.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 20, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

To those who think GA will be or want GA to be back next year, he is gone! Get over it. He may not be a "thug" or a terrible guy, but he embarrassed his employer by committing a felony. The team is understandably fed up with a guy they paid $111 million to acting like an idiot. GA himself feels alienated from the team already bc the team didn't "stand by him" and does not want to play for them either, which to me is an immature way of minimizing your mistake by diverting attention elsewhere. Anyway, the divorce papers are already at the courthouse. The only thing yet to be determined is how the "assets" will be handled - trade, voided contract, buy out, etc etc.... If he gets time behind bars, the Wiz have a better case for voiding and will probably go that rout. If not, you are probably looking at some sort of buy out.

@Kal,

By the way, there is no "violent crime" language in the moral turpitude clause. There are plenty of grounds to invoke it already, but the problem is that there is no precedent for a case like GA so you risk a long judicial process that may or may not end in your favor. In the meantime, it's kind of hard to plan for the future of your franchise when you don't know how much money you have to spend etc.... Only two contracts have been voided according to an article I read - Roy Tarpley and Vin Baker. A drug addict and alcoholic respectively and those were voided by invoking some obscure "available to work" language. Anyway, that is why I say that GA sitting in jail would make his contract easier to void.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 20, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Hey Mike, Here's a question:

How do the player contracts impact Leonsis's negotiations to price/buy the team?

Does having an $80mill contract on the books impact the "value" of the franchise?

Posted by: p1funk | January 20, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

We wait two years for a healthy Arenas. Now we lose him forever because he is a knucklehead?

What is the downside of keeping him? We shipped off Webber and Wallace (Rasheed) and how did that work for us.

Posted by: SonicBlues | January 19, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse


The downside of keeping him is continuing to be atrocious AND being hamstrung by his contract.

Posted by: p1funk | January 20, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

The downside of letting him go is that he joins a team like Orlando and lights us up for the next 4 years (a la Webber in Sacramento or Rip/Wallace/etc in Detroit) and we are still hamstrung by our share of his contract.

I think you have to try to work it out as best as you can and keep him here. Maybe this is his wake-up call. Maybe not.

As a previous poster said, you get him to play next year and then his contract is only like $60 million over three years and he becomes more tradeable to a team who needs his skills.

Maybe he sits the rest of this season and he doesn't get paid. The $$$ is still on our books, but management has the option to use some of that money to offset luxury tax for the next season or two.

Bring him off the bench? He probably won't like it, but then again, I think he can fairly understand that he lost his leverage when he signed that deal and then committed a felony.

The point is take your lumps for the next year or so. Make the trades you can to build this team. Don't give him away for nothing short term, but use his on court talents as you want, not how he wants.

If he doesn't play the way you want, give him a DNP-CD the next game. This is a guy who needs some discipline, but who also needs some positive re-inforcement. Good management needs to figure out how to do that.

Posted by: Blurred | January 20, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

The biggest mistake the Wizards have made is giving a large contract to an injured player. As much as I loved Gilbert’s game there is no way I would have thrown that much money at him. All you folks who are talking about free agents coming to Washington are living in a fantasy world. If you were a top notch free agent would you even consider playing for the Wizards?
My question to Flip is why is he letting a talent like McGee waste away on the bench. Whenever I see him in the game he is blocking shots and running the floor. Question 2, what is up with playing DS????????

Posted by: jahjank | January 20, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Hey Mike, Here's a question:

How do the player contracts impact Leonsis's negotiations to price/buy the team?

Does having an $80mill contract on the books impact the "value" of the franchise?


Posted by: p1funk | January 20, 2010 9:29 AM

It does and it was mentioned in the post article. The $80mill can either be an asset or an liability.

Leonsis lawyers would consider it a definite liability and consider it a bargaining chip to pay less for the Wizards.

However, once Leonsis acquires the Wizards he has to use whatever methods are available to turn that liability to an asset.

The perfect situation is to have the matter resolved quickly as possible by the Court and the League, in Arenas's favor such that he is now free to negotiate with Gilbert and other Teams to make the best decision for the Wizards.

However currently, the Wizards have sort of crossed themselves up in throwing Arenas out of the house and not being on speaking grounds.

You see the Wizards did not have to follow the lead of the League and throw Gilbert out, it would have been in their interest to stay ameniable with Gilbert to resolve the matter in both their interest, thereby lessening the liability of the $80, especially since Gilbert owned up. And lest we forget the Wizards went along with Gilbert in his initial story about the Guns.

As of right now, the Wizard handling of the matter has made the $80mill a definite liability, especially also since the prevailing opinion is that the contract might not be voidable.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 20, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

@Blurred,

What you have just said, I am sure won't go over good with the get Gilbert outa here crew....

but that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 20, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

It does and it was mentioned in the post article. The $80mill can either be an asset or an liability.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 20, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse


Interesting.

I didn't see that article. Where is it?

Posted by: p1funk | January 20, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

hey larry,

we should have kept CWebb and Rasheed. Caring about how they wear their shorts is an abysmal way to make personnel decisions.

Webber in particular had a stellar nba career, and all those classic post-season series with Sacramento could have happpened here instead, he was a player you could legitimately build around.

In fact, we always bemoan the lack of inside scoring and paint presence and D the team the team displays for years on end....guess what CWebb and Weed brought to the table?

Posted by: divi3 | January 20, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

P1funk,

It is the "Wizards' morning brew: Leonsis poll and MLK Day" archive, then click on deadline for Wizards sale.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 20, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I think we all hyperventilate about this stuff too much, and I think the trade/cut/void Arenas talk is mostly wishful thinking. Life rarely deals us get-out-of-jail-free cards. I think Arenas and the Wiz are stuck with each other for a few more years.

Something like this seems more likely to me:
- Leonsis takes over and cleans house. Grunfeld is out. Wiz trade everyone who can be traded and rebuild from the ground up.
- Gil realizes he's not going anywhere without losing money.
- The Wiz agree to a fresh start and Gil promises to grow up. Smiles and handshakes all around.
- Gil spends the next two or three seasons putting up good numbers on a terrible team of rookies, prospects and cheap vets.
- In three years from now the Wiz graduate to bad-but-promising. Gil's horrible deal is almost over, and now The Expiring Gilbert Arenas Contract has trade value. Wiz move Gil for picks, prospects; Gil goes to other team. Life goes on.

Seems like a win-win to me. Gil rehabilitates his image and makes his money. The Wiz keep a flashy scorer who puts butts in the seats during a painful and ugly rebuilding process. And in the end the Wiz salvage what they can from that terrible contract.

That seems more likely to me than the Wiz doing what no other team has ever been able to do (void a contract over morals); or the Wiz convincing another team to take on one of the worst contracts in the NBA; or the Wiz spending $40m on a buyout (which counts against the cap) to make Gilbert go away.

Posted by: hubcap | January 20, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"By the way, there is no "violent crime" language in the moral turpitude clause."

I never said there was.

You (or someone; I don't remember who and don't care enough to look back for it) said there was specific mention of punishment for "felonies" in the CBA. And there is, but it isn't in the "moral turpitude" clause; the word "felony" doesn't anywhere in appear there. And the only part the CBA that does contain the word "felony" specifically says "violent felony":

Section 7. Unlawful Violence. When a player is convicted of (including a plea of guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to) a violent felony, he shall immediately be suspended by the NBA for a minimum of ten (10) games.

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VI.php

Since Arenas didn't plead guilty to a "violent felony" then the league mandated suspension for such does not apply to him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 20, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Here is some options:

Take a sealed, team vote on Gilbert's return. See how the other players feel. Take him back with open arms, see how he does, then if it doesn't work, try to trade him. And as for his worth, NO player in any league is worth 100mil. The Wizards made the deal, so if they cannot renegotiate a new one, then honor the current deal. I personally think Gilbert has learned his lesson and would love to see him back.

Posted by: MAQ815 | January 21, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Take a sealed vote on Arenas.Right!!! Shucks, why don't we hire Chris Webber as GM ? That fool was suggesting we get Sprewell and a few other clowns while in Washington. We pay big money for a player and all of a sudden they think they should run the team. The lunatics can't run the asylum.

Posted by: rickywarner49 | January 21, 2010 1:20 AM | Report abuse

Anybody who thinks that Arenas puts butts in the seats knows nothing about attendance figures. This year we average 16,530 per game so far 19th in the league. Last year we averaged 16,884 without the great Gilbert and 21st in the league. The year before we averages 17,368 which was 15th in the league. The year before that we drew 17,821 which was 12th in the league. In 2005-2006we averaged 17,244 fans per game which was 15th in the league.

We are the FOURTH largest market in the nation in a basketball crazed town and the BEST we have done is rank 12 in league attendance over the last 5 years. We rank 15-21 in attendance for the rest of those years. What FANNIES?!!!!!!

Posted by: rickywarner49 | January 21, 2010 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Below is a post I sent in before the gun incident:


I've said it before and I will say it again. We should never have resigned Arenas. He is a unconscionable gunner (scores a lot of points) but shoots for a low percentage. Best case scenario we make the playoffs with this guy and get to round 2 of playoffs. BEST CASE SCENARIO!!!!

Although he was injured last year-he still made over 14 million dollars last year. When you consider he scored 26 points all season that comes to $538,461 per point. Yes over half a million a point and more than a million per basket. Agent 0- Hibachi or robber. We have all our eggs in one basket and he has all the money in the bank.

We have made stupid moves for so long that I can no longer root for the Bullets-Wizards. We acquired Chris "Timeout" Weber for 3- THREE number 1 draft picks and Tom Gugliotta. Weber thought he was GM and begged us to acquire the true "choke artist" Latrell Sprewell. Meanwhile Sprewell is manufacturing four-fours so that poor ghetto kids can aspire to be like drug dealers with fancy rims.

We get rid of Rasheed Wallace – the best draft pick we have had since Wes Unseld. As I said , you cannot build a team around Arenas as he is a “tweener” sizewise and he just aint that good. He puts little or no extra fannies in the seats and doesn’t lead us to many victories. Our home attendance is abysmal – always 12-21 in the league. Trust me our road attendance is even worse. Actually in the great Agent 0's first year here our attendance from 19 thousand plus per game to 17 thousand plus.

I have since moved to San Antonio and have the pleasure of seeing a class organization now, the Spurs. I still love the Redskins and even the hapless Nats and as a native Washingtonian have never given up on a DC team. I never cared for hockey as it seems like pro-wrestling to me. I am the ultimate homer but I finally give up on the Wizards. How can you call your team the Wizards when you are representing “chocolate city.” Maybe they should become the Bullets again and Pollin should call it a career.
Cut the crap- specifically Arenas and his salary and start with good draft choices. By the way Jamison and Butler are fine – but Arenas doesn’t fit this puzzle.

Posted by: rickywarner49 | November 17, 2009 5:01 AM | Report abuse

It is funny that here in San Antonio the Wizards are a laughing stock and were before the gun incident. Wizards tickets in San Antonio were and are tickets that season ticket holders give away to their friends and enemies. Nobody comes to see the Wizards and the hibachi- they come to
see their guys Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and DeJuan Blair and George Hill is emerging. Richard Jefferson in my opinion was an unnecessary pickup - too much money and sorry in the clutch. McDyess coming off the pine isn't bad and I'm sure Roger Mason is happy to be here.(Thank you Wizheads)

Posted by: rickywarner49 | January 21, 2010 4:44 AM | Report abuse

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