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Celtics 99, Wizards 88


Randy Foye had been playing so well in the aftermath of Gilbert Arenas's initial indefinite suspension that Coach Flip Saunders even drew up the final play for him against Dallas nearly two weeks ago. Foye never got a chance to attempt that shot, as Caron Butler called his own number on the play.

Foye hasn't scored more than 14 points in any of the six games that have followed. And, since Arenas was suspended for rest of the season last Wednesday, Foye has found himself watching on the sideline at the end of games, with Saunders relying more on Earl Boykins.

Foye sat and watched again, dumbfounded, as the Wizards scored just 10 points in the fourth quarter against the Boston Celtics. It was a rough night overall for Foye, who finished with just two points and four assists in about 18 minutes and had trouble keeping with Celtics all-star point guard Rajon Rondo.

You could see the frustration on his face when Rondo drove and repeatedly slapped Foye's hand before Foye was called for a foul in the first half, and when he dribbled up the court, slipped, fell and lost his dribble out of bounds.

"He struggled so bad, in both of his stints when he was in there and the only time we seemed to have any pace to the game was in Earl was in there. And he seemed to do a better job on Rondo," Saunders said, explaining why Boykins played 30 minutes. "Rondo was getting anywhere he wanted at the beginning of the game and in the third quarter. [Boykins] just played him at better angles. So we decided to go that way and for Earl, we probably played him too many minutes, but we probably didn't have a choice."

Boykins scored 14 points, but appeared to slow down in the fourth period, even as he provided the Wizards' final field goal, bringing them within 87-86 with 3:42 remaining. Foye said he didn't know if he would see the floor again, and just tried to stay ready.

After the game, Foye sat in front of his locker room stall trying to explain why he received limited minutes. "Early on, I felt good. I came out, I got three assists right away. I came out the game and that was about it," Foye said.

When asked if Saunders explained why he pulled him, Foye said, "He didn't say nothing. He didn't say nothing."

Was he confused? "I'm not confused. I want to go out there and help contribute," Foye said. "Earl did a great job, he scored and got the team in sets to win it, but we couldn't pull it out toward the end. I was just trying to get my teammates the ball. if you watch me, I just take what the defense gives me. I was coming off. I was showing hard. I found Mike [Miller]. I found Brendan. After that I was taken out."

Foye is not a prototypical point guard, which has led to some frustrating moments for Saunders. Even when Foye was playing well - statistically, at least - it never seemed quite enough to satisfy Saunders. Saunders is highly critical of his point guards and has huge expectations for them when it comes to running his offense. Saunders often complained of Foye's overdribbling, referring to him as "Curly Neal" from Harlem Globetrotters on a few occasions.

On Monday, Saunders said, "When you're playing that position and you struggle it leads to every one else struggling and you can't afford that."

By Michael Lee  |  February 2, 2010; 12:10 AM ET
 
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Next: Wizards' Morning Brew: another loss, an op-ed by Arenas

Comments

This loss was all Foye's fault?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 2, 2010 12:41 AM | Report abuse

The exact opposite. Playing Stevenson or Boykins is like playing 4 on 5. Boykins is another shoot first point guard he got smothered in the 4th with no wear to go. Saunders should have brought Foye back in for the 4th quarter. Jamison was struggling, Caron kept the team in the game insert Foye and add more fire power. Common sense.

Posted by: bonggong | February 2, 2010 1:20 AM | Report abuse

Flip is taking a page from the AJ it's not me book?

Flip look in the mirror, the way you treat the young guys versus the way you treat the vets it's no wonder the younger guys on the team are clueless. They have no direction.

This is like watching ETaps all over again.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 2, 2010 1:40 AM | Report abuse

I was only able to watch in bits and pieces last night and was really impressed with the Wizards. They were playing with enthusiasm, passing the ball, fighting for possesions and being unselfish.

Then I tuned back in with about 6 minutes to go and could tell we had no chance. Ball movement was down, players stopped hustling,guys were making dumb, dangerous plays.

I stil like Jamison, but he needs to make a vow of silence with regard to the refs. Too many times we are actually playing 4 on 5 because he is trailing the drive.

Its obvious even Saunders knows that Haywood is not going to help us be winners, but I am still flummoxed that McGee isn't getting any PT.

Posted by: Blurred | February 2, 2010 6:39 AM | Report abuse

If McGee can't get enough minutes, then bring in Sean Williams for a tryout and possibly a 10 day contract. He is a 7 footer drafted no.18 2yrs ago from Boston College, yes there are character issues, but he may need a change of scenery. It's obvious we are tanking the season for a potential top 3 pick, so let the fire sale begin. Bring in some defensive-minded players and have McGee and Williams battle it out for playing time.

Posted by: Raef | February 2, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

Boykins is parlor trick that's good for about 10-12 minutes a game. Any more than that and shelf life gets stale fast. I agree on the young guys. What happened to the Nick Young that had about 5 really good games in a row earlier this year? Guy is a 6-7 off guard with a sweet stroke and athleticism. He should be scoring 25 a game and he showed some progress on his D earlier this year.

Posted by: restonhoops | February 2, 2010 7:26 AM | Report abuse

"bring in Sean Williams for a tryout and possibly a 10 day contract. He is a 7 footer drafted no.18 2yrs ago from Boston College, yes there are character issues, but he may need a change of scenery."

Why would a change of scenery help character issues? You bring your character with you, right?

Williams is a very talented shotblocker/ offensive rebounder who's actually 6'10". He's the sort of player that teams keep around in hopes that sheer athleticism will eventually sprout into something more well-rounded.

Sound familiar?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 2, 2010 7:34 AM | Report abuse

I like Randy Foye a lot, but last night we saw why Minnesota traded him. He can't stay with quick PGs. It was even worse when he was in the West. Of course Boykins is no solution either. Anybody who makes Rondo look tall isn't.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 2, 2010 7:38 AM | Report abuse

This Foye-Boykins issue is important because if Flip is going to remain the team's coach--and he builds his team around point guards--that should be Grunfeld's (or whomever the GM is) first priority: get a point guard Flip likes. If they simply exchange Bigs with other teams, but Flip doesn't trust his point guard, there won't be any progress in the team's development.

Posted by: jweber1 | February 2, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse

I think Foye is a third guard. He was not bought here to be the starting point. But I have a question, what guard can stay with a good quick guard under today's rules disallowing handchecking?

There is not a first or second team All NBA player on this team. Gilbert was the closest when healthy. He could still be the best SCORING point guard. If you get rid of Gilbert, you'd better bring in somebody better than Antawn and Butler.

Posted by: G-Man11 | February 2, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Sampson,

This would be the opportune time to bring him in. What do we really have to lose?? The team is going nowhere, it's obvious the rebuild will begin soon, and last I heard,he wasn't brandishing handguns. Maybe, just maybe, a change of scenery would do him a bit of good, but for God's sake, THIS team has absolutely nothing to lose. If he could produce 8 pts. and 8 rebounds and we get him for nothing, it just might be the best move we've made all year.Try to keep an open mind because McGee has proven nothing to us, and I dont believe a lot of teams are banging down the doors to get our young players, they are simply fill-ins.

Posted by: Raef | February 2, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Trade Flip Saunders first of all and then we might get some real insight on what is needed with this Team.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

We wait around and accept poor play from vets, but give young players the shorthanded backslip just for smiling and playing cards.

Since we have screwed any hopes of Brendan Haywood wanting to resign, we are starting to short his minutes.

One could argue even with his limited abilities he has been the most consistent player on the roster this year.

The way players and development are handled on this team does not give me reason to think that it will get better with new bodies.

The philosophy is a loosing one. Switching out the parts will not make a difference.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Larry,

If we are going to pay Oberto 5mil to practice, would it not be prudent to try Sean Williams out for 10 days, if it works out great, if it doesn't, the deadline is still around the corner. I just am sick and tired of this team sitting on its a$$ and not trying a few things.A smart team will give him a tryout,if it works they are genious, if not then its just a blip on their radar.This guy has potential and a lot of years ahead of him.An untalented team like ourselves cant afford NOT to take a chance!!

Posted by: Raef | February 2, 2010 8:40 AM | Report abuse

i agree EB is not the answer but he had heavy minutes last night,he was unable to pass in 4th quarter.AJ missed 7 inside shoots in the final quarter atleast 4 of them were clear fouls. strugling players
like AJ can get frustrated by such no call.In the 4th quarter it looks like NBA ref.have already made a decision to increase the agony of this ball club.I think this thing need to be seen very well.when you count the fouls it looks equal but boston was allowed to be as agressive as they want in the 4th quarter which is extremily inconsistant and suspicious. of the 24 fouls called against
boston 17 of them was in the 1st half when boston was dominated.out of the 18
shoot in the 4th quarter, 11 of them where in the paint with agressive drive,no single one was called except the wallace's hard foul on CB.It is hard to
open TV or sit in verizon if games are decided by NBa officals.
Washington is being hardly punished
this season by stern and his refes,Stern use the ownerlless team to improve the image of NBA and treat his hanger the way he wants.atleast he has to say some thing on this issue as early as possible.

Posted by: gtefferra | February 2, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

"Trade Flip Saunders first of all and then we might get some real insight on what is needed with this Team."

It's not really a "team" and it doesn't really matter at this point. Kinda hard when you know everyone is on the trading block and you're not going anywhere.

If I were starting this franchise over the only player I would keep is Mike Miller. That's it. Nobody else has warranted the right to stay in Washington. I just hope they don't keep AJ prisioner here much longer, it's totally not fair to him.

Everything is going to be different next year from the players down to the coaching staff.

I keep waking up expecting to hear about who got traded for who. This franchise definately needs a fresh start. Hopefully we get some news about Ted soon.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 2, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Flip is a joke!

Foye doesn't play in the fourth because he was "struggling so bad".

Jamison played his usual 40+ minutes in spite of going 2-17 and playing matador defense.

Flip's every bit as weak as Eddie Jordan was perceived to be.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 2, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Randy may have been exposed defensevively by Rondo, but Foye's overall ability gets others and himself into the game offensively much better than Boykins.

For that reason alone Foye should always get the money minutes. Defense gets overated and gave Saunders the excuse to sit Foye.

But, if you only score 10 in he Money Q, and lose a tight game by 11 pts, sitting Foye appears dimwitted.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

it's funny that AJ can pull down 23boards in a win and still get gruff from fans....about what exactly? Being almost the only player on the roster still working his butt off every night? What a selfish guy!


Posted by: divi3 | January 31, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I tried to tell you one game doesn't make a career...see what happens when he has to play against a real power forward?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 2, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Kal,

The Wizards need an extreme makeover.

Just like you don't rebuild a house on a bad foundation, you don't try to rebuild a team with players who have proven they can't win in the NBA.

That goes for the rest of the organization.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 31, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Retooling and tweaking isn't going to matter. This team is fundamentally flawed, and trying to build on a flawed foundation only results in a structure that's likely to collapse from instability.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 1, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Looks like kal has been stealing my posts again...at least you are learning.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 2, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Larry,

If we are going to pay Oberto 5mil to practice, would it not be prudent to try Sean Williams out for 10 days, if it works out great, if it doesn't, the deadline is still around the corner. I just am sick and tired of this team sitting on its a$$ and not trying a few things.A smart team will give him a tryout,if it works they are genious, if not then its just a blip on their radar.This guy has potential and a lot of years ahead of him.An untalented team like ourselves cant afford NOT to take a chance!!

Posted by: Raef | February 2, 2010 8:40 AM

I agree with that and replacing Oberto for Williams would be an tremendous upgrade.

However this Team even with Flip hasn't shown any expertness on using its players. They would probably just let him sit the bench like McGee.

And there would be no hope resolving the issues referred too.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

"I tried to tell you one game doesn't make a career...see what happens when he has to play against a real power forward?

Posted by: bulletsfan78"

don't let your dislike of the guy get in the way of the facts, AJ had a terrible night whereas over the past several years we're 7-5 against the Cs and he's played well. Caron generally balls against the Cs as well

Flip throwing him out there 40+ every night is starting show on the 34yr old for sure

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

The Haywood Blatch rotation points out the dimwittedness of Saunders.

Here you have a team that has a 3 playing the 4 and a 3 who is struggling.

Haywood has been playing well all year, so we reward his play by reducing his minutes for Blatch.

If this was a winning philosophy then yes, do it, but it isn't.

Blatch should come in at the 4 move Jamison to the three and bench Butler for Miller and have Foye run point.

This develops the Team, for McGee would have to now be included in the rotation along with McQuire, before Oberto.

The 2nd unit would be JM, DM, CB, NY, and EB. Run the ball.

A good Team learns to play together first before they can win. Flip Saunders is NOT TEACHING THIS TEAM TO PLAY TOGETHER.

Flip concentrates on individual play and not Team play. TEAM should be first and foremost.

That is of course, if you are about winning.

Any agenda that isn't about winning is a loosing one. Replacing Haywood with Blatch is a loosing agenda.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

interesting that Foye only plays 18mins, yet still leads the team in assists for the night. Was he really struggling that horribly Flip? Because Rondo had 6pts?

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Michael Lee has hit on something in his comments about Foye.

I hope you all haven't missed it. Sometimes your own good play can often be effected by your teammate for better or worse.

When Butler eschewed the play called he not only showed lack of confidence in his coach but also a lack of confidence in Foye.

We can see clearly now that it has affected Foye adversely.

In that game Butler also had made some big shots and he probably was miffed that the play wasn't called for him.

The fact that he directly on his own decided to not follow the play is a definite afront to Team cohesiveness.

Now, I am not unaware that called plays can always not go as planned. But this wasn't the case at all.

Butler disregarded the play from the outset and it definitely affected the Team negatively and Foye the most.

Foye has to ponder whether Butler is really selfish, or, does Butler really have no confidence in him.

Uncorrected and unadressed by the coach or the players leaves the Team split, not confident in each other and contributes to a loosing environment.

I am sure that with this Team, there are many other examples like this going unresolved.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Since we have screwed any hopes of Brendan Haywood wanting to resign, we are starting to short his minutes.

One could argue even with his limited abilities he has been the most consistent player on the roster this year.

Larry

*****

Most consistently mediocre player on the roster.

My favorite line from the telecast last night: Buck saying: "And Rondo strips the ball from Haywood." on an above the rim Offensive rebound.

Seriously, when your 7 ft center that doesn't dunk, can't shoot from outside of 5 ft, can't hit 60% of his FTs, can't jump, can't move quickly ALSO isn't strong enough to keep the ball from a 6'1" 170# pg, you are in real trouble.

Posted by: Blurred | February 2, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

So Seann Williams is now the new Earl Boykins? A guy who's not even in the league yet is expected to walk in off the street and change the team's fortunes? How'd that work out with the old Earl Boykins? Seriously, the guy wasn't good enough to hold a roster spot on the New Jersey Nets for god's sake.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

"One could argue even with his limited abilities he has been the most consistent player on the roster this year."

So? He's the most consistent player on the most disappointing, underachieving team in the league. That's a real resume stuffer.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Kalo - everytime I think you, Divi and I have FINALLY exposed Haywood for the 2nd stringer (third on many temas) that he truly is, someone pipes up about what a gem he is.

I keep vowing to lay off him, but I can't let the darkness stay in the eyes of his followers.

Then again, every game he has a couple opportunities that just lay there, waiting to be recognized as evidence of his mediocrity.

Posted by: Blurred | February 2, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"Seriously, when your 7 ft center that doesn't dunk, can't shoot from outside of 5 ft, can't hit 60% of his FTs, can't jump, can't move quickly ALSO isn't strong enough to keep the ball from a 6'1" 170# pg, you are in real trouble."

Haywood is what he is, and it's indicator of how lousy the organization is that he was given 6-7yrs to develop into the player you describe. As we watch Mcgee rot on the bench and regress from where he was last year, it makes you wonder if Haywood would have been developed better in a different organization. BTH has atrocious habits that should have been drilled out of him but never were, so can we expect Mcgee to bite on every pump fake for his entire tenure here?

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I just don't understand how many failed possessions it takes to try something new. Blatche was playing really well. Nick Young was playing well. Flip's repeated commitment to playing the guys that are playing well appears to be all talk. Instead of riding the guys who were producing, Flip went with the veterans. Jamison was horrendous. If he's not producing on the offensive end, then he's absolutely worthless. PULL HIM. And Caron turns it over every other possession. Makes me sick.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | February 2, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse


Kalo - everytime I think you, Divi and I have FINALLY exposed Haywood for the 2nd stringer (third on many temas) that he truly is, someone pipes up about what a gem he is.

"I keep vowing to lay off him, but I can't let the darkness stay in the eyes of his followers.

Then again, every game he has a couple opportunities that just lay there, waiting to be recognized as evidence of his mediocrity.

Posted by: Blurred | February 2, 2010 9:58 AM"

I've been trying to lay off him too....but he's TERRIBLE! So frustrating to watch him crap out EVERY 4th quarter. I swear 70% of his contributions come in one uncontested manner or another

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

AJ is a 34yr old 6'9" player who is averaging 40mins a night over the past month. Do they want his shoulder to pop out and ensure he stays the rest of his contract?

Rumor is management does not want to trade him, maybe that's true

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Now, I am not unaware that called plays can always not go as planned. But this wasn't the case at all.

Butler disregarded the play from the outset and it definitely affected the Team negatively and Foye the most.

Foye has to ponder whether Butler is really selfish, or, does Butler really have no confidence in him.

Uncorrected and unadressed by the coach or the players leaves the Team split, not confident in each other and contributes to a loosing environment.

So Butler ignored the coach's explicit instructions, selfishly called his own number and cost the team the game . . . and somehow, of course, that's Saunders' fault?

Classic, classic stuff.

As for it going "Uncorrected and unadressed by the coach" . . . well that's just (hey, here's a shock) wrong. Saunders addressed it in the postgame press conference, once again calling the team out for not executing plays and making it quite clear that Butler broke from the play he'd designed.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your little sideshow act.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

There's no secret agenda at play with Jamison. he plays so much because he's the best player on the team and their chances of winning are generally better with him on the floor than him on the bench.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, when your 7 ft center that doesn't dunk, can't shoot from outside of 5 ft, can't hit 60% of his FTs, can't jump, can't move quickly ALSO isn't strong enough to keep the ball from a 6'1" 170# pg, you are in real trouble.

Posted by: Blurred
-------------------------------------------

Well, there is one such center playing for Celtics right now.

Last night, Perkins shot 4 for 7, 9 points, 3 rebounds. Haywood shot 4 for 6, 12 points 5 rebounds.

No, Haywood is not the player you build the team around, but he can be a good supplemental player on a good team.

Posted by: sagaliba | February 2, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

"Last night, Perkins shot 4 for 7, 9 points, 3 rebounds. Haywood shot 4 for 6, 12 points 5 rebounds."

And if that one game were the entire season, that might mean something. But it's not and it doesn't. Perkins is better, stronger, more athletic, more skilled, and younger than Haywood.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

For Haywood to be the most consistent in his mediocrity for this team says more for the Team than it does for Haywood.

Haywood should not be the most consistent performer on this Team, he should be only one of them and certainly not close to the best.

But he is Blurred and Kalo, and as you point out the deficiences in Haywood's game, at the same time you should point out the huge deficiencies in organizational player development.

In case you did not know it, some organizations actually develop their players, something the Wizards don't do.

And you cannot make the case that Haywood has no initiative on his own to be better.

Divi3's point about Haywood and McGee makes much more sense about the state of Haywood's game than you guys continued pontifications of his perceived inadequacies.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

"Haywood shot 4 for 6, 12 points 5 rebounds."

right, but here's the thing, in the last 6mins of the game (haywood re-entered with the score 84-82) BTH's stats were:

0-0fg, 0-0ft, 0pts, 0 rebs, 0blks, 0 assists

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

"In case you did not know it, some organizations actually develop their players, something the Wizards don't do."

In case you don't know it (and it's blindingly obvious you don't know or at least pretend not to) organizations can't develop players who aren't willing to work to get better.

During the game Buck mentioned that Rondo worked with Mark Price over the summer to improve his jumper. Kobe spent part of last summer--in his 10th season in the NBA, after winning his 4th title and appearing in 12 all-star games and being named MVP-- working on post up moves with Hakeem Olajuwon. Deron Williams spent the summer after his rookie year working on his playmaking with John Stockton. And so on and so on. During his 10 years in the NBA, how many times have you heard about Haywood reaching out to a past great to tutor him on his skills. He spent 4 years at one of the best, most tradition-rich college bball programs in the nation. How hard would it have been for him to have hooked up with up with one of the many alums to give him some pointers. Surely calling NASCAR races can't take up all of Brad Daugherty's time.

Haywood is a paid professional employee of the Wizards and the NBA, not an intern or student. Once they start drawing a paycheck, the responsibility of keeping up on the job duties falls primarily on the employee. If your boss has to constantly remind you how to do your job, then maybe you need to think about a career change.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Oops, that should read:

Kobe spent part of last summer--in his 13th season in the NBA

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"And you cannot make the case that Haywood has no initiative on his own to be better. "

I can and did. What case can you make to the contrary?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

As for it going "Uncorrected and unadressed by the coach" . . . well that's just (hey, here's a shock) wrong. Saunders addressed it in the postgame press conference, once again calling the team out for not executing plays and making it quite clear that Butler broke from the play he'd designed.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your little sideshow act.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 10:21 AM

Flip has said a lot of things thus far that has only been lip service.

I see no indication on the floor that what Butler did has been corrected.

And Kalo_rama, is the only way to gain an upper hand in your assertions is to twist other's words.

You incorrectly read into bloggers comments and then spend justifications based upon your own incorrect analogies.

Where anywhere on this page did I say what Bulter did was Flip Saunder's fault?

In fact, what I said was that Butler showed a lack of confidence in his coach.

And secondly, I not only singled out the addressing of what Butler did with the coach but to the players as well, something you left out to buffet your half-witted argument.

You Kalo_rama would be much better off stating accurate facts about bloggers and not trying to twist their words to arguments that were not indicative in their statements.

LarryInClintonMD

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

"Haywood shot 4 for 6, 12 points 5 rebounds."

right, but here's the thing, in the last 6mins of the game (haywood re-entered with the score 84-82) BTH's stats were:

0-0fg, 0-0ft, 0pts, 0 rebs, 0blks, 0 assists

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 10:42 AM

I see, another one that belives in the strategy of taking Haywood out of the game for major minutes, then bringing him in at the end of games when he is out of the flow and the momentum of the game has turned to the opponents.

Do you really think that Haywood is the go to guy that is going to make a difference coming off the bench cold at the end of games?

I like how yawl always like to make Haywood the sacrificial lamb for piss poor coaching.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

"Do you really think that Haywood is the go to guy that is going to make a difference coming off the bench cold at the end of games?"

Uh, what I think is that your starting Center should be able to come in with 6mins left and grab a fricking rebound! Block a shot! Get fouled! Do SOMETHING!!

dude is the starter and regularly contributes NADA in the 4th quarter, you cant blame that on being out of the flow.

Posted by: divi3 | February 2, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"Where anywhere on this page did I say what Bulter did was Flip Saunder's fault?"

Right here:

"Uncorrected and unadressed by the coach or the players leaves the Team split, not confident in each other and contributes to a loosing environment."

The clear implication being that Flip's failure to address the situation contributes to the team's "losing environment." Never mind the fact that he did address it, or that the team had a losing environment for years before he showed up.

"In fact, what I said was that Butler showed a lack of confidence in his coach."

And how is that not an attempt to indict Saunders for failing to lead the team? Your very attempt to refute my argument only underscores my point. Butler put himself above the team, yet you point the finger at Saunders for not inspiring "confidence" in Butler. Complete B.S.

Try again, sonny boy.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and I'm still waiting for those examples of Haywood taking an active hand to reach out and improve his game. Not holding my breath, though.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

"I see, another one that belives in the strategy of taking Haywood out of the game for major minutes, then bringing him in at the end of games when he is out of the flow and the momentum of the game has turned to the opponents."

Haywood is not a shooter or a scorer. You don't need to be in a "flow" to block a shot, take a charge, or grab a rebound.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 2, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

@Kalo_rama,

It is really said that you had to go cite the offseason training regimens of so many others as if Brendan Haywood doesn't also have one or the initiative thereto.

Oh well, it is too bad that Brendan's offseason training regimen's is not up to your high politicking standards.

Evidence once again of embellishing a point while refusing to acknowledge that Brendan Haywood has always had an offseason regimen.

If you were not aware that he had one you should have checked first before you went through all that sound and glory signifying nothing but your ignorance of the matter.

LarryInClintonMD.


Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

And while you were so adept at citing other players offseasons regimens, why is it so funny that you are not aware that Haywood has one?

I don't believe for one minute that you don't know or could not research that Haywood has always had one.

You are just trying to leave it out of your argument to make your failed analogy lood good.

Didn't work ole' chap. Maybe on someone less knowledgeable than I, but that argument holds no water.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

And how much evidence does a caveman need to see that sitting Haywood for darn near half a game and bringing him in in the Mony Quarter, whilst in most cases the momentum has swung to the other Team that Haywood's insertion dosen't make any difference.

If he is truly your number one center, then you should have him on the floor at the beginning of the quarter and see how that works.

If anyone out there that dosen't believe sitting Haywood like that does not have an effect on his game, then your BBall IQ is suspect.

Furthermore, play both Blatche and Haywood together more and in crunchtime when it really counts throughout and in the 4th Q', then we will really see what the real deal is.

And again anyone that believes that bringing Haywood into the game with 6 minutes after he has been sitting for major minutes is a good strategy is about as smart as Flip Saunders coaching is turning out to be.

It isn't working and "That Dog Dosen't Hunt".

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 2, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"This would be the opportune time to bring him in. What do we really have to lose??"

Himmler to Hitler: "C'mon, why not invade Russia? What do we really have to lose?"

Posted by: Samson151 | February 2, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"Perkins is better, stronger, more athletic, more skilled, and younger than Haywood."

At this point they're pretty much the same statistically. Haywood averages 9.8 points, 10.4 rebounds, and 2.0 blocks per game while shooting 55.7% from the field and 64.2% from the line. Perkins averages 11.6 points, 8.3 rebounds and 2.0 blocks per game while shooting 62.5% from the field and 59.4% from the line. The difference in rebounding in Haywood's favor comes entirely on the offensive end where he averags twice as many offensive boards per game than Perkins does.

Haywood is a competent NBA center. On a better team, he'd do better. I think if he and Perkins swapped place right now, Haywood would have better numbers because he hasn't gotten to play with a real point guard in a long time.

Posted by: steveh46 | February 2, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Flip Saunders is a terrible coach! This guy cannot manage. A good coach is able see the strengths and weaknesses of his players. This guy cannot see anything! His love affair with Earl "The Pebble" is growing old. If Flip would utilize the players he has on the bench, he would see how fast this team can turn things around. To see McGee, McGuire and Young go forever and not see the floor is just SICKENING!
Players can only develope on the floor and not watching D.S. jack up shots and waving at his goatee. AJ and Butler need to be rested for at least 15 mins while you get AB and McGuire some time on the court. Rest BTH and get McGee on the court. We may seem to be Couch GM's but basketball is basketball. Anyone who knows basketball (coaching or playing) knows that you learn on the court. Flip Saunders is "who we thought he is". A LOSER!

Posted by: Doobie_Sparks | February 2, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

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