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Time to deal Jamison, Butler, Haywood?

If the Wizards are going to make a move before the trade deadline, they might want to act sooner rather than later. This is arguably the best time for President Ernie Grunfeld to rework his roster and start anew, with teams around the league expressing interest in Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood. The trade deadline is just two weeks away.

Adrian Wojnarowski recently wrote for Yahoo! Sports that the Dallas Mavericks have lost interest in Butler because of his so-so season. Butler has had a difficult season but his production has been relatively unchanged, even following Gilbert Arenas's suspension. He has scored at least 20 points four times in the 15 games since Arenas received his initial "indefinite" suspension -- he had 11 20-point games in 29 games with Arenas. He has also scored 15 points or fewer seven times since Arenas was booted.

His recent left knee injury, which cost him Wednesday's loss to New York, isn't considered serious but doesn't help raise his value any. Butler will attempt to play against Orlando on Friday. ESPN.com's Chad Ford still has Butler listed as the fourth-most likely player to be dealt at the deadline. Houston, Portland and Phoenix have expressed interest.

Jamison has also been dealing with several knick-knack injuries in recent weeks, with his sore right foot, right shoulder and recently a left knee injury. After several monster performances in January, Jamison has started to slow down, and his shootng percentage has dropped. In the past eight games, Jamison has been held below 12 points five times. He is averaging just 13.9 points and also has shot just 34.3 percent (44 for 128) over that stretch.

Jamison said the trade rumors have had no affect on his play. "I've been in the league 12 years now. When I don't hear trade rumors, that's when I'm worried. It goes in one ear and out the other. I know what's going to happen. It doesn't affect me at all. it affects family and friends because they the ones that keep asking you. I've been through this every year just about."

The Wizards have been reluctant to move Jamison because he ranks among Grunfeld's favorite players. Although Jamison is 33, Grunfeld doesn't want to give away a player who averages more than 21 points and nearly nine rebounds, and he also has little desire to help Cleveland win a championship -- especially after the Cavaliers signed away Larry Hughes five years ago.

Haywood has been incredibly consistent all season. He has maintained his season averages of 9.8 points and 10.3 rebounds with limited to no oscillation in his production from game-to-game. Portland and Houston, among others, have expressed interest.

"I can only speak for myself. I'm fine," Haywood said. "I go out there and play every night. I have a job to do and I go out there and try to be a professional. It hasn't had an affect on how I play."



By Michael Lee  |  February 4, 2010; 1:49 PM ET
 
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Comments

I voted for someone else like a mike james, but personally I hope the Wizards don't give Ernie the green light to make this mess even worse.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 4, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

You could put this title on at least one the blogs every day for like the past month or so.

Posted by: millineumman | February 4, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Just for the record I'd like to say:

JERRY SLOAN IS A GOD!!

When is this guy gonna be recognized as one of the greatest coaches ever in the game and definitely the best in the game today. Dude does more with less every year. He is truly a coaching genius.

Posted by: dovelevine | February 4, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Ernie Grunfeld:

Good things come to those who wait, but not for those who wait too late!

Posted by: tgif11 | February 4, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

"JERRY SLOAN IS A GOD!!"

Personally I think Larry Brown is just a little better. However Larry is sort of a nomad bouncing from place to place. I liked his hit and run two years with the pistons and brown still pulls off no chance victories against top teams with his in game adjustments and chess like strategies. Jerry sloan is more of a model of good consistency.

Posted by: jefferu | February 4, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

If we can deal any or all of the following for expirings and a 1st round pick, we should do so: Haywood, Miller, Butler, Jamison. We could have 5 1st round picks next year as well as cap space to sign a max-level FA (assuming Gilbert agrees to a $20M buyout). Even if we can just trade away 2 or 3 of these guys for expirings and #1s, we should do so.

Posted by: Dellis2 | February 4, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Jerry sloan is more of a model of good consistency.Posted by: jefferu

For sure. He is definitely a lunch pail no nonsense coach. But the way he has gotten 2 decades of players to buy into and run and succeed at his basic pick and roll offense is really amazing.

Posted by: dovelevine | February 4, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

2 good possible trades..

Trade Butler and Haywood (only if necessary) for McGrady and someone else if their desperate... Or

Jamison and Butler for Amar'e Stoudemire....

Posted by: crisco00786 | February 4, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

They are all bums that just show up for a paycheck we'll never see a championship with these bums NO HEART

Posted by: cammacd | February 4, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Only contenders would be trading for the Wiz starters, and their #1 picks would be not be 1-10. Any higher than 10 probably would not be an impact player, Hope to draft a top 5, and maybe trade for players in the off season.Obtaining expiring contracts probably would not help the Wiz to sign an impact free agent. They would sign with the higher potential teams.

Posted by: Bailey51 | February 4, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see them all gone, cb I used to love but he developed some awful habits last season under tapscotts no coaching approach (so too did aj) and now neither seems capable of reverting back to their form prior to forcing any and everything, aj and wood absolutely must be moved if you really want haywood for the future then try and sign him at the end of the year after picking up some value for him

Posted by: bford1kb | February 4, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld's job is to win a championship, not keep to the Cavaliers from winning one. If he passes on a deal that can help this club because of a "rivalry" with Cleveland or because they gave Larry Hughes an absurd contract, he's an idiot.

Posted by: Tank2 | February 4, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

If I had to trade, the FIRST person in my books to go is Jamison!

I'd have him on the trading block so fast he would barely have his zipper up before I sent him off to the Clippers!!

But serious, That's who I'd trade first. We need to go after Amare, someone who isn't scared to bang. Jamison is just too soft. He plays with too much finesse and we need BANGERS!!!

Posted by: cbmuzik | February 4, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I have never seen a team that needs blowing up as much as this one. No more patching for next season! Let's start over. Totally agree that the main goal is #1 picks. And if you can't get a 2010 #1 for a guy, then a 2011 or 2012 unconditional #1 will do just fine. With #1 picks, it is not relevant how awful are the players with expiring contracts you acquire as part of the trade.

And of course you buy out Gil as part of this plan. Hopefully, Gil works with the Wiz on this, as a genuine way of regaining his status in the NBA. Both sides must give.

For years, the Wiz have started the season with an upside at best of borderline playoff. By starting over and collecting young players, you can reach new depths in the short run, but over time, the ceiling gets lifted--and it will be much higher than it has been for the Wiz in recent years. Think Atlanta, Portland, OK City and Memphis as teams that are into their rebuilding process. Think NY and NJ as teams that are starting their moves.

Knowing that the future will be better will make the Wiz more fun to watch than they have been.

Posted by: EdDC | February 4, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

The Cavs almost have to make the trade for Jamison since they've professed their love for him, and its kind of now or never for them to win it all with Shaq approaching middle age and LeBron all set to walk. Given that, if the Wiz hold out they should be able to get a little more for him in return as 18 Feb gets closer I would have thought.....

Posted by: ArchieTambo | February 4, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

No, you won't get lottery picks for the guys the Wiz have to give up this winter. Still, the Wiz should do make the trades for the first round picks anyway to provide a fresh start. If you get a future #1, that could be a lottery (for example, from the Cavs in a post-Labron era). And of course, the Wizards' own picks will be lottery for the next 3 years at least! If you do this, you will get some stars and some good players to complement them.

This is a formula for rising to the top, like Portland and Atlanta have been doing.

Posted by: EdDC | February 4, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

The Cavs almost have to make the trade for Jamison since they've professed their love for him, and its kind of now or never for them to win it all with Shaq approaching middle age and LeBron all set to walk. Given that, if the Wiz hold out they should be able to get a little more for him in return as 18 Feb gets closer I would have thought.....

Posted by: ArchieTambo | February 4, 2010 2:53 P

The King gets what the King wants?

Posted by: tgif11 | February 4, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

If the Wiz trade away Miller, Butler, Jamison, and Haywood for #1s,negotiate a reasonable buyout with Arenas, and overpay a max-level FA on a 3 year contract, this could be the Wiz's lineup next year:

PG: Foye, Willie Warren
Wings: Wesley Johnson, Xavier Henry, Young, Austin Freeman.
Bigs: Amare, McGee, Blatche, Dexter Pittman

Or the Wiz could trade two low #1s, say Pittman and Freeman, for a low lottery pick like Ed Davis. This would be a sick young team, particularly if we get another lottery pick in '11.

Posted by: Dellis2 | February 4, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

If Abe were still here, I'd say no one. But now, with Ted presumably coming in, I'd think at least one of CB or AJ is gone. Maybe a secondary player or two, too (Miller?). Gotta think Ted is going to want to make a run at LeBron, and he's going to need as much cap space as possible.

Posted by: BMoreChil | February 4, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I agreed with the idea of bringing the "big 3" back for chance to see if they could find the success from 3-4 years ago.

That idea most certainly bombed.

Sell it all...sell it all now.

Why should Grunfeld care about Danny Ferry signing Larry Hughes for way too much money! Larry Hughes got injured, again, and only played 36 games that first season in Cleveland. In fact, Hughes has only played more that 40 games in a season once since he left DC.

If Cleveland wants to give a ham sandwich for Jamison, then let him go. He deserves a shot to play in meaningful playoff games and more importantly this franchise needs to start over. We are not a rival to the Cleveland basketball team, just to the Cleveland basketball fans.

If Portland wants Haywood and is willing to give Fernandez and a PB&J great!

Same for Butler.

The experiment failed.

After the trade deadline, we are likely to lose Haywood for nothing. Jamison will be harder to move in the off season at 34.
And if Caron keeps playing the way he is, teams will hang up on you as soon as you mention his name.

Of course, a new owner may want a new GM.

So I guess it's fair to ask the question, why should Grunfeld make someone else's job easier?

Posted by: bozomoeman | February 4, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"When is this guy gonna be recognized as one of the greatest coaches ever in the game and definitely the best in the game today."

If anyone who knows anything about bball, they already know that Jerry Sloan could have practically any HC job in the NBA. It's not really that much of a mystery.

"I voted for someone else like a mike james, but personally I hope the Wizards don't give Ernie the green light to make this mess even worse."

Top to bottom this is going to be a differnet organization by next season. I think EG's day as GM are numbered as well.

Unless they are already under contract, you're not going to see any of the players that are here now in a Wiz uni next season.

This organization needs to start completely over. I've never in my life seen on that has needed that so bad, not even the Clippers.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 4, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"(assuming Gilbert agrees to a $20M buyout)."

If someone owed you $80million, would you agree to take $20mill just because?

Posted by: divi3 | February 4, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone really expect Grunfeld and the Wizards to make the most of the assets they have in trades?

Give me a break.

This team assembled valuable pieces over the past 5-6 years in Jamison, Butler and others but singularly failed to realize they were PARTS and not a cohesive whole.

As a result they are now trying to trade them when everyone knows they are desperate and the return is likely to be little more than cap space.

And the problem for the Wizards is that the extra cap space doesn't guarantee anything as NONE of the big names that are going to be available in free agency seem interested in joining this organization.

Posted by: leopard09 | February 4, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

If we can get Hickson for AJ, it's worthing getting reamed over the BigZ stuff they want to go with the deal. The problem is, Cavs realize Hickson just may be a keeper. Gotta get that deal done EG...DO IT!

RudyF would be a great acquisition and become the team's most popular player within a week (sorry Mike Miller)...but portland wont give him up for Haywood.

Posted by: divi3 | February 4, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

If wiz get two first round picks and JJ hickson for AJ then its not that bad. Lebron walks, shaq retires and wizards could get a lottery pick for like the next few years...
I feel kinda stupid for being pumped for 2013

Posted by: jefferu | February 4, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

if you can,t get a LOW POST PLAYER OR TWO you make no trade. are these bad times. yes but though this , this can be a great team if they stay together and get a heart and go to the hoop and stop shooting so many jump shot and draw fouls on the othere teamsave Haywood ( who have very bad hands down low) they have on one that play down therewhat happen I can be a good thing for this team but its how this team play this from here or out on how this will turn

Posted by: lostdogrwd1011 | February 4, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

yeah the wiz should trade everybody on the team for a bunch of first round picks because we have such a great track record of identifying and then nurturing young talent!

ahahahahahahahahah!!!! i crack me up sometimes

Posted by: rm0659 | February 4, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

divi3, I think that Gilbert is completely unpredictable. Given his stated distaste for Grunfeld and the Wizards organization, his passionate desire to resume his NBA career, and the fact that he is rich beyond comprehension already, I think it is reasonable to suppose that Gilbert will deign to accept $20 million in exchange for his basketball freedom.

Posted by: Dellis2 | February 4, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

As soon as Ted buys the team(I hope)..the first guy to be dumped should be Ernie. He is responsible for this team..so why does any
one think he could do any better with a bunch of draft picks..and role players?
They need to keep Haywood..as he has become a decent center..and it is hard to find those type of players.
Actually..with the talk about trading Butler and Jamison..let us not forget that one way or the other Arenas will probably be gone..and there will be freed up money to go after a top player. If the contract can`t be voided, no doubt they will come to some type of buyout arrangement. Regardless they will not be on the hook for
all of his contract...and when he returns to the league..his new team can pick up some of the tab.

Posted by: blazerguy234 | February 4, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

4 Team Trade...


Cleveland gets Jamison. Just like they wanted.

Chicago gets Big Z. They can move one of their duplicate 9MM contacts at SG in order to make even more room for Summer 2010.

PHX gets Butler & Mike James - They get both a quality player and cap space for Amare

Washington gets Amare & Heinrich.

Haywood, Amare, Miller, Heinrich, Foye. We'd go from being a bad D team to one of the best. We'd just need to reconcile with our PG and we'd have one heck of a good team next year. I am assuming that we would keep Amare because we're a big market and Ted may want to spend.

Posted by: cballer | February 4, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

cballer: why on earth would Phoenix make this trade? Butler is a below average offensive and defensive player this year. When Butler was perceived to be a better player last summer, Phoenix demanded Jamison in addition to Butler in exchange for Amare. Why would they accept considerably less now in exchange for the same guy?

Posted by: Dellis2 | February 4, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

"Haywood, Amare, Miller, Heinrich, Foye. We'd go from being a bad D team to one of the best."

By adding Amare Stoudemire? That's a joke, right?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 4, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

"Actually..with the talk about trading Butler and Jamison..let us not forget that one way or the other Arenas will probably be gone..and there will be freed up money to go after a top player."

Not necessarily. It depends on how they manage to get rid of him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 4, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

To answer the original question: it's past time. But I still wonder what whether the ownership uncertainty is playing any part in the lack of activity.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 4, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

The 1st and most important action should be to trade jamison for Hickson.This an exchange of 14 million by 1.9 for the next two years.
CB has no market at this time,he will be a sweat for trade or opt out next year.I am not saying do not trade him but we should not kick him away for noting.
We do not need banch of 1st round picks from top 2 teams,there is no significant diffrence between late 1st round and early 2nd round pick.The second round are more help full for the cup.
I will not trade BH and MM for 1st round pick, look for a young developing star at PG or PFf or center(if possible)or let them go.If we have Hickson,Our lottery pick and one more 1st round pick, it will be a good start for a short rebuilding process.If arenas is going to play for washington ,we need still try to sign BH, it will shorten our process.
I do not know how people are trying to tell us that foye will be our future point gard.I did not see any quality on this man,you can involve him any any trade,hopefully he will opt out.
It is better to use second round picks to fill the roster rather than crying for 4 years after drafting players like Ny and JM and the big russian man that help us to trade our 5th pick.

Posted by: gtefferra | February 4, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

This is a question for those of you who seem to feel that Leonsis and company (assuming they're the new owners) will want to spend money, as opposed to conserving it: What in their history as owners of the Caps would lead you to believe that?

I'm sincerely curious.

Posted by: fansincebullets | February 4, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

No, the Wiz are not going to get decent players for discards. AJ is old and has 2 more years after this one left on his contract. If you can get any kind of #1, be happy, and take any mediocre player's expiring contract.

Butler is younger and only has another year left, so you might be able to deal him for a #1 and a player with an expiring contact. Haywood can maybe get the #1 from a team desperate for a center. You can try for a #1 for Miller, or a future #1, but it won't be easy. In all these cases you get expiring contracts. But please forget getting another team's good players (when the teams you are trading with are making a post-season run?) in exchange for the Wiz discards.

Once you get the #1's, it won't be EG doing the talent evaluations. The Wiz can definitely improve themselves.

I'm not sure why so many people mention Mike James. What's he got to do with anything?

Posted by: EdDC | February 4, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Don't you think there's a strong case to keep Arenas around for a while?

If the FAs walk (or run for the hills) we're in rebuilding phase. Arenas now has more time to rehab his knee, game and attitude. Wise's article made clear that his "zero" reputation was the engine that made him tick. Since he has now turned himself back into a zero, surely he'll be pumped to prove everyone wrong again. Since his stock is currently at an all time low, the Wiz will get crushed in any deal for him now. Since next year is almost certainly a lost year anyway, why not let him run amok next year throwing up shots in playground mode, let him stack up some 40 and 50 point games and then trade him this time next year when his star is back on the rise?

Sure, this would make Flip's head explode, but based on what he's done this year I don't think we should be worrying about his hurt feelings.

Posted by: ArchieTambo | February 4, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Ernie please do a trade just so I dont have to read this dumb a-- trade proposal from people on this blog anymore.

Posted by: dsquare | February 4, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

If you acquire Amare and then blow the team up, would he want to stay here? He is a free-agent and that's shopped in the first place.

Posted by: thecomedian1 | February 4, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Okay. Let me try to make my argument AGAINST trading for a bunch of #1s, a new way, since those pleas continue from some confused fans.

This is not the NFL, low first round picks are not worth much. You don't turn around and trade them to move up to a high pick. And if you want to find "a diamond in the rough" history shows that those are much more common in the 2nd Round because that is where you can swing for the fences with no guaranteed deals.

Any trade they make needs to bring back at least one inexpensive talent. And as far as expiring contracts go, the team already has a bunch of those including some of the names people are throwing out there (BTH, MM, Foye). Draft picks #20-32 are future 6th men of the year at best. Typically, they just turn out to be role players and DNPs.

Posted by: SportzWiz | February 4, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I meant to say he is a free agent this summer.

Posted by: thecomedian1 | February 4, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

CB has had a terrible year. His value has depreciated greatly. With another team, he would probably revert to his previous skill level. He has given up with the Wiz. He continually has mindless turnovers.

But, we need a couple of top ten draft picks like Cousins and Wall to get competitive. Look at Okla. City. Durant, Westbrook, Green, and Hardin. A good team for years to come. Also, the Griz.

Posted by: Bailey51 | February 4, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"But, we need a couple of top ten draft picks like Cousins and Wall to get competitive."

Ohhh...is that all? Why not make it complete and add Evan Turner, too?

The ONLY team that will add J.Wall next year is the ONE that WINS the lottery, period.

And whoever has the #1 overall has about ZERO chance of also having another top ten pick. Not by trading up, not by making a trade with a team that falls into the lottery unexpectedly, not even by an ACT OF GOD.

Posted by: SportzWiz | February 4, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

SportzWiz

I agree. You have to get the Number 1 pick to have any "chance" of becoming a contender. Or be very lucky.

Consider the perennial contenders:
L James 1st overall, 2003 Cleveland Cavaliers

Tim Duncan 1st overall, 1997 San Antonio Spurs

Dwight Howard 1st overall, 2004 Orlando Magic

Carmelo Anthony 3rd overall, 2003 Denver Nuggets

Dirk Nowitzki 9th overall, 1998 Milwaukee Bucks

Paul Pierce 10th overall, 1998 Boston Celtics

Kobe Bryant 13th overall, 1996 Charlotte Hornets

Posted by: VBFan | February 4, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Was reading The Book of Basketball by ESPN's Bill Simmons this aft -- some enjoyable stuff. I had forgotten about the incident where Dave Cowens, ticked off at the ref for calling a tic-tac foul on him, chased another player all the way down the court, leveled him from behind, and screamed at the ref, "now that's what a f***ing foul looks like, you moron!!!" Or the time Larry Legend decided to shoot left-handed for an entire game --

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

I imagine the ownership situation (or lack of a stable one) makes it hard for Grunfeld to make moves one way or another. Reminds me of the Nats situation for a couple years there. Plus a contending team needs somebody who's going to come in and contribute right away, and can it be assumed that Jamison, Butler, or Haywood will do that?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Simmons' also describes his version of the formula for NBA success:

1) a great player who isn't irretrievably selfish
2) a couple other 'stars' whose games complement him,
3) role players who are happy being on a winner.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Some of you make good cases for not getting #1's. It's true that you won't get high #1's for the Wiz discards. It is also true that you won't get much in straight-up player trades. Why? Because these guys are not worth that much!

So you blow up the team and start over. I would prefer starting over with unknown kids with relatively high upsides than some established players you KNOW won't be that good. The Wiz will generate their own high lottery picks just by doing poorly. So the new #1's complement the lottery picks of the Wiz. And who knows, you could get lucky. Arenas, Boozer, Millsap are examples of #2 round draft picks who did well. People say they want Rudy Fernandez--he was 24th overall. You can comb through the drafts and find other examples. At least half won't amount to much. But what about the other half? Go for quantity of #1's to increase your odds of success!

But why keep patching this team? You get exchangeable players--what you call "product." They are interesting for awhile, and then you want to trade them for some other new product. It goes on and on.

Again, look at the approach of the Hawks, Blazers and even OK City and maybe even Memphis. What do you see? Do they go for kids or try to patch?

Posted by: EdDC | February 4, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Who on the Wizards has much trade value to begin with? Jamison's an old man by NBA standards. Butler's game has regressed. No one's giving the Wiz anything for McGee, Young, Blatche, McGuire, Stephenson, Oberto, James. Foye might bring back a late 1st. Miller's a free agent. Haywood doesn't have anyone knocking at the door, maybe a late first. No one will touch Arenas' contract. The cupboards bare. Hope is in the ping pong balls.

Posted by: randysbailin | February 4, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

SportsWiz, very cogent analysis that I am inclined to agree with. The points you make demonstrate how difficult it will be for the Wizards to gain much in a trade without giving up a player they may be inclined to keep. Given the uncertainty surrounding team ownership only adds to that difficulty.

E. Grunfeld's hands may be tied somewhat since the prospective owner(s) may not be willing to sign off on some of his trade proposals. My guess is that Caron Butler is the player most active on the trading block. Should a trade occur that includes him, I suspect it will be more of an addition by subtraction type deal.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | February 4, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse


Antawn Jamison is a good player. But I think he should be traded to acquire either MacGrady or one of those Robins twin towers from the New jersey Nets or Phoenix Suns.

When that is done, then the wizards will be a serious Title contender.

Posted by: ezewuiheyahoocom | February 4, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

"So you blow up the team and start over. I would prefer starting over with unknown kids with relatively high upsides than some established players you KNOW won't be that good. The Wiz will generate their own high lottery picks just by doing poorly."

Ever notice how few NBA trades hinge on mid-to-late first rounders? Look at last year's draft -- GMs lost interest after the first five or six choices. Grunfeld wasn't criticized by his peers for trading out of the number 5 selection. That was seen as a smart move.

You know who gets really excited at having two or three number one picks?

The media. And fans.


Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

They need to get rid of Jamison and Butler right now. What are they waiting for???? Any expiring contract will do. Jamison does nothing to make his teammates better. I don't think I've seen him make one good pass since he's been here. He's a ball hog who only cares about his stats. If he cared about winning he'd try on defense and pass the ball. And if he's so great, how come the can't break 20 wins with him playing 40 minutes a night and the focus of the offense??

Posted by: mschmall625 | February 4, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Teams spread rumors about not being interested in a particular veteran. Call it disinformation. These are the same Wizards that many NBA types rated a contender before the season. Those supporting players still have value to various clubs. The teams are just trying to lower the price.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

You know who gets really excited at having two or three number one picks?

The media. And fans.


Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 7:36 PM

I'd get "really" excited to have two or three number one picks.
That would set this team up for the next decade. Unless we get 2 or 3 Kwames,

Posted by: VBFan | February 4, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

According to ESPN Dunleavy has been canned by the Clippers. The Clippers show that getting top picks are no guarantee of success. I think what has to be done to rebuild the Wizards has to start off the court first. We need to ditch the scouts, as well as the GM. The problem is we are picking players with the wrong mental makeup. We don't ever draft intelligent players or guys with the drive to continue to make themselves better.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 4, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

You know who gets really excited at having two or three number one picks?

The media. And fans.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 7:36 PM

That's all you have a chance to get for these guys on the Wiz. And even then you would be lucky to get a late round #1. So you hope to get lucky with kids, US or international--players with upside, if you are fortunate enough to get extra #1's. And the Wiz should feel very fortunate if a team gives them an extra #1 for any of the guys we are talking about.

No, the odds of getting a very good starter out of this process are not great. However, if you collect several #1's your odds get better.

But it is not like you have lots of options right now. I can't think of any better options, can you? You would get practically nothing just trading a player for another player. My product for your product. Ho hum.

Over the next few years, you will have your own lottery picks and you hope to get lucky with some extra #1's. It's the Atlanta and Portland model, and it works.

Posted by: EdDC | February 4, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld wasn't criticized by his peers for trading out of the number 5 selection. That was seen as a smart move.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Please paste the links to the quotes from the other GM's who thought trading the pick (who ends up being Foye) is better drafting a Jenning?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 4, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Caron, Haywood, Blatche for Amare ?

Arenas and Caron for McGrady ?

Caron, Haywood, Stevenson, Blatche, Young to Houston for McGrady, Landry, Lowry, Budinger ?

Jamison, McGuire to Cavs for Ilgauskas, Hickson ?

Haywood to Portland for Martell Webster and Rudy Fernandez ?

I would make any of these deals. That's just basically off the top of my head playing with RealGM trade checker... Basically any moves you can make that would net young up coming players and draft picks should be done.

The players I would most like to hold on to are Haywood, Miller, and Foye. I do like McGuire also, and would actually like to keep Jamison.

Anyone among Blatche, McGee, Oberto, Butler, Young, Stevenson, Mike James, Boykins, Arenas, Crittenton are the players I'd be trying hard to dump.

Posted by: Darnell1 | February 4, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

From an SI article on defending the post, interviewing Malik Rose, the Spurs' longtime designated defender:

"Rose says his three toughest covers were Duncan, Shaq and, a bit surprisingly, Antonio McDyess -- "He was a nightmare in his prime because he had that fallaway, like the second coming of the Dream fadeaway." When it came to particular moves, he hated covering Rasheed Wallace's turnaround -- "He never played with the ball, never brought it low where I could get it; he just caught it, turned and shot it" -- while Zach Randolph was "the best in the league at getting his own miss," and Antawn Jamison was tough because he "shoots his hook at a weird angle, almost like he's tossing a grenade."

Posted by: Samson151 | February 4, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

My philosophy is different. I think that the most important roster spots that the team should change are the last 3 or 4 spots on the roster. If they get complimentary players to fit with Jamison, Haywood, and Butler, this team can still win.

It's crystal clear now, that they can't win with a shoot-first point guard who can't distribute the ball.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 4, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Caron to Miami for QRich and Chalmers. An expiring and a promising young pg... that's the type of deal I'd be looking for.

Basically my philosophy is the 2 most important positions are PG and PF , and we have neither! We have SFs at PF (Jamison or Blatche) and we have SGs at PG (Foye or Arenas).

We need a legit true pass first PG and a legit true low post PF. We have way too many perimeter jump shooters (Butler, Jamison, Arenas, Miller, Foye, Young, Stevenson, Boykins, Blatche). We need a true distributer and a true rebounder to mix in with the shooters.

Posted by: Darnell1 | February 4, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Chalmers is very promising at all. Let's face it the types of players we truly need no one is giving away.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 4, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

We need a legit true pass first PG and a legit true low post PF. We have way too many perimeter jump shooters (Butler, Jamison, Arenas, Miller, Foye, Young, Stevenson, Boykins, Blatche). We need a true distributer and a true rebounder to mix in with the shooters.

Posted by: Darnell1 | February 4, 2010 10:05 PM

Javaris Crittenton, true point guard, mauled by lax disciplined culture, wasn't smart enough to not be sucked in by it.

Andre Blatche, power forward, Javale McGee, center/power forward, never given the chances to prove whether they can handle those positions.

Brendan Haywood, center, Javale McGee, center/power forward, Andre Blatch, power forward, the three should have the lock on the C and PF positions on this team but coaching still has Antwon Jamison playing the power forward whom really is a three.

Things we wish for we may already have, but only if we accepted what we have and stop wishing we might be a much better Team.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 4, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I am watching Steve Blake now. I liked him when he was here and I like him much better now.

When he and Juan Dixon was here, they actually provided some good spirited play.

Steve Blake a pure pass first point guard that we had but thought we could do better without.

Brendan Haywood, a pure 7-foot NBA center that is coachable and goes along with the gameplan but one we think we can do better without.

We will soon find out though, won't we Kalo_rama.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 4, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

"But serious, That's who I'd trade first. We need to go after Amare, someone who isn't scared to bang. Jamison is just too soft. He plays with too much finesse and we need BANGERS!!!"

LMAO....too soft, but you want Amare? He is just a slightly bigger/more athletic version of AJ without the range on his shot. Oh, I guess bc he dunks that makes him a "banger"? Seriously, he has many of the same knocks on him as AJ. No defense, too soft, etc... To boot, Amare is known as a diva who can be difficult at times. Great! Can't wait!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 4, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Yup!

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2010 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Here's a crazy trade that will most likely never happen, but does follow along with most of the rumors floating around about which teams want who.

Cleveland gets Jamison, who tops their list. They give Ilgauskas to Philly (who will wave him). Philly also gets James' and Crittenton's expiring contracts from us, and a couple low salary expiring contracts from Phoenix. In return, the Wiz get Iguodala and Phoenix gets Dalembert, who would fit into their offense nicely. The Wiz also send Butler to Phoenix and in exchange, get Stoudemire.

You can see how the money works out here:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykovnhd

This trade helps all the teams in what they want to do:
Philly gets to dump 24+ mil.
Cleveland get Jamison for this season's run.
Phoenix, who still has Nash for a few more years gets Butler and Dalembert for all but Nash's last season. Both players would fit in well there, and Phoenix won't lose Stoudemire after this season for nothing.
Washington gets one of the best SG in the league, good offensively and great defensively, and one of the best PF. The risk is that Stoudemire won't resign this year, but that's partially what makes Phoenix give him up.

Since Arenas is almost untradable, next season you'd have Arenas, Iguodala, Miller (if resigned), Stoudemire, and Haywood (if resigned).

Posted by: segastyle | February 5, 2010 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Isn't it ironic that the offseason trade for Miller and Foye has turned into those two guys being starters? Maybe they're the Wizards best assets. I just don't see us getting anything better or equal value for Butler or Jamison. Unless you are just trying to trade for a contract that will make cap space for next year.

Hate to say it but it all hinges on what they plan to do with Arenas. As has been said before .. maybe he's going to be back in a Zards uniform after all.

Someones got to start a pool somewhere .. any takers on the starting 5 for next season? I don't even want to guess but I bet Arenas will be one of them.

Posted by: boblas | February 5, 2010 12:52 AM | Report abuse

some of the scenarios posted above are unlikely. i don't think we have equal value to obtain stoudemire. i do think a banger like udonis haslem might be available, possibly, for butler and _?_. maybe. he's a good defender who rebounds and hits 12-footers. maybe we could experiment with blatche at the #3 spot, which is where he seems to want to be. if his height lets him become a reliable defender and better post-up player, we'd be a better team. we have a little bit of talent, but some of it doesn't appear to be motivated to PROVE it AND play smartly every night. maybe it's the coaching, or maybe some of our guys have "natural athletic" abilities without high ball iq?

Posted by: dcjazzman | February 5, 2010 1:35 AM | Report abuse

You know who gets really excited at having two or three number one picks?

The media. And fans.

Posted by: Samson151

And the Portland Trailblazers who spent a couple of years stockpiling #1's and #2's and currently have a wealth of young talent, even without Oden playing. With the way teams can go up and down in the NBA, you never know when the pick you think is going to be a mid first rounder turns into a lottery pick where anything can happen.

Posted by: ts35 | February 5, 2010 2:32 AM | Report abuse

Here's a crazy trade that will most likely never happen, but does follow along with most of the rumors floating around about which teams want who.

Cleveland gets Jamison, who tops their list. They give Ilgauskas to Philly (who will wave him). Philly also gets James' and Crittenton's expiring contracts from us, and a couple low salary expiring contracts from Phoenix. In return, the Wiz get Iguodala and Phoenix gets Dalembert, who would fit into their offense nicely. The Wiz also send Butler to Phoenix and in exchange, get Stoudemire.

Posted by: segastyle

Why is it than in every 'multi-team' trade I see posted here, the Wiz always end up with the best players in the deal? Why would Cleveland or Philly agree to a deal that sends Amare and Iggy to DC (with the assumption that Amare re-signs here I guess), while they don't get as much back in return? There are other ways for them to do what they want to do that don't help a team they each have to face 4 times a year.

Posted by: ts35 | February 5, 2010 2:39 AM | Report abuse

To heck with all this Wiz trade talk. I just like the name "Chad Ford". If this guy lived in the historic little Pennsylvania town of Chadds Ford, and owned a Ford car dealership there, it would be called "Chad Ford's Chadds Ford Ford"...

Posted by: evanescent_panoply | February 5, 2010 5:07 AM | Report abuse

"Why is it than in every 'multi-team' trade I see posted here, the Wiz always end up with the best players in the deal?"

And on the Philly blogs, it's the Sixers who end up with LeBron, while in NY, the Knicks manage to pick up Kobe in exchange for a 2012 top draft choice...

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 6:18 AM | Report abuse

"I just don't see us getting anything better or equal value for Butler or Jamison. "

That's entirely possible. Both happen to be pretty good players, despite what you sometimes read on this blog, and it's hard to get equal value when teams have figured out you're going to get rid of them anyway.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 6:20 AM | Report abuse

"My philosophy is different. I think that the most important roster spots that the team should change are the last 3 or 4 spots on the roster. If they get complimentary players to fit with Jamison, Haywood, and Butler, this team can still win.Posted by: PostSubscriber"

What? You maintain the most important players are the three or four guys who hardly ever play?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 6:24 AM | Report abuse

LOL @
"Chad Ford's Chadds Ford Ford"...

Posted by: whatyoutalkinboutman | February 5, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

After reading all the posts on suggested Wiz trades, it is clear what the Wiz must do. The Wiz should call up whole bunches of teams and say, "Give me some of your best players. In return we will give you our s--t."

If 5 or 6 teams fall for that, then the Wiz will be just fine.

Posted by: EdDC | February 5, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

"My philosophy is different. I think that the most important roster spots that the team should change are the last 3 or 4 spots on the roster. If they get complimentary players to fit with Jamison, Haywood, and Butler, this team can still win.Posted by: PostSubscriber"

What? You maintain the most important players are the three or four guys who hardly ever play?

/////////////////////////////
No, the last spots on the roster are the most important because those are the spots which are the easiest to change, the place where a shrewd judge of basketball talent can make a difference. Also, probably the place where the current owners of the Wizards might be willing to spend some money.

There are 16 teams in the NBDL, and I have to believe that there is talent there that could help the Wizards this season, particular at pg.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 5, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Here's an article discussing some D League prospects:

http://dleaguedigest.com/2010/02/04/d-league-all-stars-as-nba-players/#more-321

Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 5, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

"No, the last spots on the roster are the most important because those are the spots which are the easiest to change..."

They're the easiest to change because the change will have the least impact.

Except if you're a Fantasy B-Ball player, I suppose, and think the folks down in the D-League are going to help you to a title...

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, but Flip Saunders does not know what Team is. If he did, he would stop using his bigs one at a time.

It is obvious that this Team does not play together. It is what frustrates Haywood, and Blatche and why McGee isn't being integrated.

A good pickup team plays with more comraderie and togetherness than these guys do.

Flip Saunders is just like Dave Cowens was as a coach. Dave Cowens only wanted to coach veteran players who already knew how to play the game he thought.

Dave Cowens is the reason why the Lakers ended up with Kobe instead of Charlotte. Dave did not want to play any green snot nosed rookies especially one coming from high school, so he traded Kobe's rights to the Lakers.

Flip coaches as if he has a group of players that has already proven themselves and has been there and done that.

He is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. It is so sad that nobody is around to just tell him to, STOP IT! JUST STOP IT!

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"I have never seen a team that needs blowing up as much as this one."

Of course you have.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"There are 16 teams in the NBDL, and I have to believe that there is talent there that could help the Wizards this season, particular at pg.Posted by: PostSubscriber"

Wait a minute -- you're the guy who believes all the Wiz need is a pass-first point guard, aren't you?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Unloaded Guns = Thug Wannabes

Gilbert the Wannabe needs to go first.

Posted by: hessone | February 5, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

"Why is it than in every 'multi-team' trade I see posted here, the Wiz always end up with the best players in the deal? Why would Cleveland or Philly agree to a deal that sends Amare and Iggy to DC (with the assumption that Amare re-signs here I guess), while they don't get as much back in return? There are other ways for them to do what they want to do that don't help a team they each have to face 4 times a year." - ts35

I did say it was a crazy trade that wouldn't happen, but each of the scenarios complied completely with the rumors that ESPN continuously posts. Why would Cleveland help us? Because it's more important to them to get Jamison. Jamison helps them win it all this year, and as a result, helps them in their goal to retain Lebron. But you don't get a 21/9 player for nothing. My scenario though enables Cleveland to to just that, relying on another team to supply players. Plus Stoudamire might bolt ofter this season.

Philly giving us Iggy is the more unlikely scenario. But again, according to ESPN, they want to get rid of his and Dalembert's contracts in exchange for expiring deals (because no one will take Brand's). It's hard to get one team to take over 20 mil on contracts, so they'd almost have to involve two teams.


Anyway, it doesn't really matter, none of this is likely. Grunfeld is great as trading away players he doesn't like, but holds on way too long to those he does.

Posted by: segastyle | February 5, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

"There are 16 teams in the NBDL, and I have to believe that there is talent there that could help the Wizards this season, particular at pg.Posted by: PostSubscriber"

Wait a minute -- you're the guy who believes all the Wiz need is a pass-first point guard, aren't you?
//////////////////////////

Yes, I'm suggesting that there are pgs in the NBDL who could help this Wizards team. That seems pretty obvious to me, where the Wizards have had their #1 and #3 pgs suspended for the season, and they lately have been giving 25-30 minutes a game to a 5-5 pg who wasn't even playing at the beginning of this season.

Mike James has good qualities, but he's taking up a roster spot that could be filled by someone the coach might actually want to put into a game.

Oberto was picked up in the expectation that the Wizards would need a veteran big man for the playoffs. I don't think that need exists anymore.

It would cost some bucks, but it would be easy for the Wizards to clear roster space so that they could bring in new talent.

If the Pollins aren't willing to do that, why do any of you think that they are about to do some blockbuster trade?


Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 5, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

To trade, or not to trade. What difference will it make? The Wizards suck. Plain and simple. They can't even come to an agreement with Leonsis. They will not get any value. It would be nice for Butler and Jamison to land on contender teams, and maybe get a ring. Otherwise, no one else is worth mentioning. Arenas? Too bad. Just like all the other saviors of the Wizards/Bullets. Does "Hot Plate" ring a bell? "Kwame"?

Posted by: dougw3 | February 5, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"I have never seen a team that needs blowing up as much as this one."

Of course you have.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Well, not many teams have been in such need. Maybe the Knicks of a couple years ago, and they have taken giant steps to get rid of bad contracts and bad chemistry. The Wiz can learn from them.

Of course, many of the Clippers' teams of past years were asking to be blown up. But the Clippers generally hung in there with their bad chemistry and mismatched players. The Clippers have been the Wizard's role model in that respect. Nonetheless, the Clippers are now starting to collect some interesting pieces. We'll see about them...

Posted by: EdDC | February 5, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

There have been plenty of bad teams that needed dismantling, but I can't recall the last time a team built around such a highly paid veteran core has entered into a season with as much high expectation as this one only to have thins go so abysmally wrong.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 5, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Basically, the Wizards are bad, old, and expensive. That's not a trifecta you want to hit in pro sports.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 5, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

There have been plenty of bad teams that needed dismantling, but I can't recall the last time a team built around such a highly paid veteran core has entered into a season with as much high expectation as this one only to have thins go so abysmally wrong.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 5, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

The expectations were just marketing, to retain season tickets. Not many thought the Wiz could do much more than first round playoffs. Of course they fell far short of that modest goal.

The team was built around the notion of respectability. They never seemed to really try to get to a championship level. Hopefully with Leonsis, the team can try to build the right way--through youth. February 2010 would be a good time to start the trading of vets.

Posted by: EdDC | February 5, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"Wait a minute -- you're the guy who believes all the Wiz need is a pass-first point guard, aren't you?"
"Yes, I'm suggesting that there are pgs in the NBDL who could help this Wizards team. That seems pretty obvious to me, where the Wizards have had their #1 and #3 pgs suspended for the season, and they lately have been giving 25-30 minutes a game to a 5-5 pg who wasn't even playing at the beginning of this season."

Nice backpedal. So we've gone from 'all the team needs is a pass-first PG' to 'hey, at least he'll be taller than Boykins.' Who by the way averages 18.6 minutes.

I'm a fan of the PG position, but name two PGs in the NBDL who are ready to step in and turn this club around.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 5, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

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