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Trade rumors abound

Morning brew

There isn't much real Wizards news now that their all-star break has begun. But the rumor mill is still grinding away. Michael Lee reported that a rumored three-team deal involving the Wizards, New York and Houston "doesn't have legs right now."

Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski had reported on Wednesday that the deal would send Tracy McGrady to the New York Knicks, and ship Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood to the Rockets. The Knicks would send Al Harrington to the Wizards. One of Lee's sources said nothing is imminent, though.

On Bullets Forever, bwoodsxyz offers a commentary on the notion that the Wizards' season been derailed as much by an inability to "win close games" as any other reason.

Truth About It's Kyle Weidie looks back at the latest close game -- the Wizards' 94-92 loss to the Bobcats -- in screen shots and stories. On ESPN.com's Daily Dime, Weidie gives Wizards Coach Flip Saunders a below-average grade for the season so far.

And in a piece for CSNWashington.com, Mike Jones examines the first half of the season.

Around the League ...

There were 10 games last night -- including the Nets' loss to the Bucks in front of only 1,016 fans at IZOD Center. Of course, there was a blizzard, but still ...

Highlights of that game and more are below, courtesy of NBA.com:

By Alexa Steele  |  February 11, 2010; 10:21 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Wizards working on three-team deal?
Next: Grunfeld says Wizards will explore all trade options

Comments

Also, Blurred-----

When you post stuff like:

"Resign Haywood, there's just not enough good centers out there
Posted by: saltine182 | February 10, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

YAWNNNN!!!! Divi? Kalo? You guys want to handle this one?"

.... you come across like a huge fool and really annoying. You want to be kissing up to Kalo??? We're all just fans - there is absolutely no reason for you to (a) act so superior, (b) act so lame, (c) kiss kalo's ---. Have a little pride, man. I don't think we should re-sign BTH either, dude, but I can say so without acting like George Will and without unnecessarily kissing up to Kalo. Did you really think Kalo was suffering from lack of ego and you needed to pump him up?? That's not case.

Posted by: Urnesto | February 10, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse


you missed the point here...which was that we have gone round and round about this for months. Every argument that anyone has made here in favor of Haywood has already been shown to be suspect. I understand that some folks really like Haywood. I was one of those guys years ago, but too many complaints and not enough shown on the floor and now he is 30, which should be the prime of any center and if this is his prime, then he is nothing more than mid level center and not worth trying to build around. Every dollar he earns is a dollar we can't pay someone who might help. Every minute he is on the floor is a minute that we are not developing another big man who might be able to help us win some playoff games.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

What's the deal with voiding Gil's contract? I don’t see how these guys only get a slap on the wrist. These guys are entertainers and he isnt entertaining anyone right now!

I've been in the military for 10 years, I sign a new contract every 4 years and I honor it. But, let’s say one day I come into work with four unregistered guns and make some threats. If I don’t get shot immediately, I’m getting arrested, court martial, sent to the brig (jail) and then I’m getting dishonorably discharged (which makes getting a job outside of manual labor nearly impossible).

Im not hating on these guys for what they do but if they don’t honor their contract then they should be discharged from it. The American people pay their contracts just like they pay mine. We should hold to the same standard.

Posted by: murphyz | February 11, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Blurred,

It is obvious that Brendan Haywood is a true NBA center. Etan Thomas was at best and 2rd string power forward. He was not a center at all.

A caveman would know that and certainly anyone that knows anything about NBA ball.

To compare BH and ET is ludicrous and is part of the reason why the Wizards went all wrong in the way they developed/played Haywood and now have literally no chance of keeping him.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 10, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

If Haywood were truly a top tier center, he would never have been splitting time at the center position with an "at best and 2rd string power forward."

Don't get me wrong, I have no great love of Etan nor do I think he is anything more than what you say. My point is, if Haywood had made the case on the hardwood, there would have been no position splitting for 5 years.

Maybe he would have progressed better had our coaching staff given him the starting job, but also remember that at some point in his career, he couldn't beat out the following players for sole spot as starting center:

Kwame Brown
Jahidi White
37 yo Popeye Jones
CHristian Leatner!!!!
Etan Thomas
charles Oakley
Calvin Booth
Michael Ruffin
Darius Songaila
Andray Blatche.

thats a true rogues gallery of top flight NBA talent there.

We could blame that on porr coaching, but it looks more like desperation moves from 4 different coaches to me. But go ahead, just blame the coaches for not developing him properly.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Sorry...should never have maligned popeye and oak tree. Those guys were top flight NBA talent, just undersized and a bit long in the tooth by the time they beat out Haywood.

When a 37 yo 6'8 (at best) center can displace a a 24 yo seven footer, your team needs a new center.

And anyone who was playing Leatner at center in the NBA was obviously desperate. Yet there he was for several games playing Haywood's spot.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Too little too late for Haywood. The year before last he started to turn it on. I think it was after Etan left and he and Eddie had a "talk" or whatever. But the guy is 30 and has underperformed his entire career. Trying to keep him would be like offering Arenas a max contract. McGee has too much potential to rot away on the bench, give the guy a shot. Let the guy fall and see if he can pick himself back up.

Posted by: AnthonyMix | February 11, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

The problem with Ernie and this organization was they never developed any players and can't see beyond this year and that isn't the way to build a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse


I actually 100% agree with this comment.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Anthony. that may have been the year Etan was out for Heart Surgery or whatever. Anyway, I agree with you. Haywood could never have beem Dwight Howard, but he could have been a top 5 center year in and year out, had he developed or been developed or whatever. Point is, that never happened and even now, in his prime, he is still just OK.

And he will decline soon as he will finish the season 31 yo, I think.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Put Ruffin's brain in BTH's body and you'd have had 15pt/20reb player.

Literally 90% of BTH's production comes in quarters 1-3....because of that I consider him a below average Center. Basically a 7footer capable of grabbing rebounds that fall in his hands and putting a few back in the bucket.

The reason he couldnt beat those guys out is because they all were willing to battle more than him, that's why people call(ed) him 'Brenda' for years and it's why his late game production is nil.

Hopefully Javale develops into much better, cause there aint any other 7footers walking thru the door.

Oh, and cant really blame BTH for being exactly what he's always been dating back to college. You blame an organization that thinks no improvement has to be made at the position for 9yrs.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Newsflash!! Bullets/Wizards one of the NBA disappointments entering the All-Star Break. Character, Commitment, Connection.....

Interesting article from ESPN:

"The Wizards, individually and collectively
Good golly, what a mess. The Gilbert Arenas fiasco is merely one element, as this season was headed off the rails long before he and Javaris Crittenton engaged in their gun hijinks.

The key number here is 49.4 percent. That's the percentage of Wizards baskets with an assist this season, and it ranks 29th in the league, ahead of only Memphis. The Grizzlies are a good offensive team that happens to run a lot of isolation plays for their best scorers. The Wizards, on the other hand, are just selfish. Too many players -- most notably Arenas, Caron Butler and Nick Young -- have broken the offense to seek their own shots, and as a result, the talented team ranks 22nd in Offensive Efficiency.

But the problems are deeper. Washington's young players are clueless, DeShawn Stevenson and Fabricio Oberto have been several leagues south of worthless, and Randy Foye and Mike Miller have failed to deliver the expected impact when Washington traded for them this offseason. Coach Flip Saunders, who previously worked with harmonious, ball-sharing squads in Minnesota and Detroit, has spent most of the season with various looks of disgust on his face. You half-expect him to come out for a game with "all alone" written on his shoes."

Posted by: hamptonpirates89 | February 11, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

"Oh, and cant really blame BTH for being exactly what he's always been dating back to college."

Sure you can. If he'd had even the slightest drive to channel his obvious anger and discontent at having to share time with players he considered less talented, then rather than pout and whine he'd have made at least a token effort to make the kind of improvements (if not in skill than at least in effort) to raise his game. He didn't, because it was easier to blame the other players or the coach (things over which he had no control) rather than focusing on what he could do to get better (the one thing over which he had control), and thus make it harder to leave him on the bench.

"You blame an organization that thinks no improvement has to be made at the position for 9yrs."

I'm sure that, at several points over the last decade, it occurred to the Wizards TPTB that they needed a better C than Haywood (if that hadn't been the case, they wouldn't have kept playing other guys ahead of him, trying to get better effort and/or production). The problem was always how and where do you go about acquiring one.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Miller will walk after this year and that will mean Ernie traded the 5th pick for Foye.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

At least we got to see what a player who hustles on both ends of the floor, has a pretty complete game (if not the most athletic guy) and hustles almost every minute he is on the floor looks like.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

The myth of Mike Miller not being very athletic needs to go away. Is he an explosive leaper? No. But that is hardly the only measure of athleticism.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Agreed with most of the ESPN article. Exception is Foye and Miller. Both of them, when healthy, have played up to expectations.

This team really needs for the season to end!

Posted by: fearturtle44 | February 11, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Just saying that he is a solid player that does so many things that we rarely see from most of our other players. And he isn't as fast or quick as some other players and certainly can't jump like Dom.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

"And he isn't as fast or quick as some other players and certainly can't jump like Dom."

But he is faster and quicker (and more agile and coordinated) than a lot of other players. There's more to being an athlete than jumping high.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Agree with Kalo about Mike Miller. He's not a high riser, but he's athletic and long enough to get to the rim and generally stay in front of his man on D. He's just a basketball player.

Still not 100% clear why this proposed deal needs to be a three-way deal involving New York. If all we're trying to get out of this is salary cap space, we have enough decent contracts that we could trade along with CB and BTH to make the numbers work. It seems like in the deal with New York, we're going to end up eating a contract we don't want like Jeffries or Larry Hughes. I haven't heard of us getting in picks either, so not real clear what we get out of it....Unless Ernie really wants Harrington, which I don't get either. He seems like a slightly younger version of AJ, undersized, perimeter 4, who likes to shoot and not a great defender....except he doesn't even rebound.

Anyone have any more info on what the full parameters of the deal would be?

As for the BTH debates, he's decent player on a bad team. He has size, rebounds, defends the rim, and *seems* to have matured a bit into his role. It will be interesting to see how he does on a contending team like Houston (if it happens), where his minutes would be diminished, but the pressure to produce in reduced minutes would be greater.

Posted by: ts35 | February 11, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

At least we got to see what a player who hustles on both ends of the floor, has a pretty complete game (if not the most athletic guy) and hustles almost every minute he is on the floor looks like.
Posted by: Blurred |
Not saying that he doesn't hustle his butt off but he looks quicker and more agile because he's playing with the least agile and least hustling players in the NBA.

Posted by: VBFan | February 11, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Tne New York Post:

If the Knicks deal for Tracy McGrady by next Thursday's deadline, it will have to be a three-team trade, with Al Harrington headed to the Wizards, a source confirmed.

A source familiar with the situation said talks between the Rockets, Knicks and Wizards are continuing, but the source did not sound overly optimistic they would be able to get it done.

"It's possible, but I would not say it's likely," the source said. "The good news is there are talks and it's all being discussed."

Another league source said, "I think there can be something there at some point, but I think it will be hard for all three teams to hit their goals."

The Wizards are looking to break up their team and take on the expiring contracts of Harington and either Larry Hughes or Darko Milicic in order to shed forward Caron Butler and possibly center Brendan Haywood, whom the Rockets view as strong assets. But more pieces have to be added -- the Knicks likely have to put in $3 million of Jim Dolan's cash.

The Knicks and Rockets were unable to complete a deal because Houston general manager Darryl Morey asked for lottery pick Jordan Hill and Knicks president Donnie Walsh refused.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

For example Patrick Ewing has had a positive effect on Dwight Howard's development, as has Kareem on Andrew Bynum's. But they couldn't have had that effect if Bynum and Howard hadn't been willing to accept their instruction and put in the hard work to learn and implement what they were being taught.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

And Phil Hubbard and Wes Unseld Jr. wouldn’t have been able to teach Howard or Bynum the same things that Ewing and Kareem have?

I understand that a player has to have a desire to improve, but, I also understand it helps to have the right mentors that are able to work with a player to give them both instruction and encouragement and this organization has never believed in either.

Name one player who has improved while with this organization?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Blurred--- My mistake. Sometimes I read these too early in the morning. What you say makes sense. I'm just pushing for this to be more of inclusive, laid back forum - because sometimes these things get super-dismissive which seems silly because we're all on the same side and none of us is a professional NBA talent evaluator. On a different note, these rumors seem fishy. First it's just Haywood for Batum and Fernandez (I know, I know that they shot it down but it still made the rumors and thus is still out there to some extent and could still happen). And now it's Haywood and Butler for Harrington?? I mean, Ernie got shot down by Portland so he then offers twice as much for half the return?? Who wants Harrington? His only winning teams are when he was 19 and the 10th man in Indiana. He was death in Atlanta and hated by his coaches in GS and NY. None of the rumors makes sense. The Jamison to Cleveland thing is held up because CLeveland wants to hold on to JJ Hickson? Give it up. They'd be fools if they forewent Jamison for Hickson - but maybe they are, cause I think Ferry is a horrible GM and that it's a bit of a shame to the NBA at large that he's constantly given LeBron such a clunky supporting case. I mean, I don't like LeBron and don't want him to win - but it would be a lot more fun if he was running with a modern day Pippen and not clunkers like Wally, Shaq, Z, and Luke Jackson. Anyways, I don't care what the Wiz do - so long as they (1) do something, (2) give up on the whole Jamison is the new Wes so we're going to allow our misplaced loyalty to him sink the team, and (3) just get some young guys with a little bit of hope. Oh, and (4) maybe get some assists at some point.

Posted by: Urnesto | February 11, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The ESPN article doesn't go far enough. Maybe there was more than just that cut-and-paste, but it makes no mention of the defensive crapitude of the team.

Posted by: p1funk | February 11, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Why would HAYWOOD ever re-sign with the Wizards. The team must be rebuilt, they're not going to contend for a title or even to go deep in the playoffs anytime soon. This is why it was such a disaster to trade the fifth pick last year. Ernie G did it to save his job, not to build the best future for the franchise. And Mike Miller isn't going to re-sign either. Again, why in the hell would he?

Posted by: milfordone | February 11, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

washington want to sell all their bigs but there is no buyer.I will not be surprised if no one is moved by feb,18.If CB and BH are moved just for expiring contract,i will be mad on EG.There is no need to favour any of the players in this team, he should see it from the bussiness point of view.If we get 1st round pick for expiring contract like BH, let him go but why CB who could have a better value next season.EG need to send AJ for expiring contract and what ever he could get fron ohio.removing Aj means removing the bad habit on defense,poor shoot selection and getting young.EG made several mistakes,some body has to stop him from repeating any more.No one will take Aj next year.

Posted by: gtefferra | February 11, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Urnesto | February 11, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Urnesto - I agree with virtually everything you said here. You are right and I shouldn't be so dismissive of other posters.

I just get frustrated when the same people that complain about Arenas/Jamison/Butler's contracts then want us to resign a 31 yo who never performed in a non-contract year.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

According to the NBA trade machine getting this 3-way deal done is real simple. The Knicks throw in expiring Eddy Curry (and with Derek Lee playing great why wouldn't you) with Harrington to give the Wiz around $20 million in expiring Ks. The Wiz then throw in Mike James with Butler and Haywood to the Rockets and everything evens out (except the Rockets have 16 on their roster, but I'm sure they can cut someone). Of course, I say only pull the trigger for the Wiz if this deal includes Houston's 1st round draft pick (I'd say NY to except they don't have one this year). With Houston's first rounder we could add someone like Larry Sanders (VCU PF/C), Ekpe Udoh (Baylor PF/C), Greg Monroe (Georgetown PF) Hassan Whiteside (Marshall C)or Stanley Robinson (UCONN SF).

I'd like a first round pick for Antawn as well, but I would accept just swapping him for Josh Howard (Jamison can play SF too) to clear another $10 million off the cap.

Posted by: mcgratsp | February 11, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: gtefferra | February 11, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

i like what Gtefferra has to say, but have to wonder about jamison's value now v. later.

Might there be teams that get bumped in the 2nd round or conf finals who think they could have gone further with a "better" PF? I am thinking that if Zach Randolph or Josh Smith have trouble in the playoffs, either Memphis or Atlanta might be willing to trade their 1st rounder and soome other developing players (Thabeet???) to us for Jamison around draft time.

Also, late summer when some teams that had hoped for Chris Bosh or Amare are left holding their cash and no one to play PF, they might be willing to trade a bit more than now.

Just thoughts.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Name one player who has improved while with this organization?


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

There have been scores of them, depending on how far back you want to go. If you're talking about recent years, say, since EG has been the GM, admittedly, there have been very few. I would suggest that Haywood is one. I also think that Blatche and McGuire have MARGINALLY improved since their rookie years.

As for the instruction and encouragement that you claim that the organization has not provided, how do you know this? There is no way that you or I or anyone else can know what these players are or are not being told unless they are there at practice with the team during training camp and during the season. The best teacher in the world can't help if the students aren't willing to put forth the effort needed to improve.

Posted by: rbpalmer | February 11, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Lets get the knicks 1st rounder in 2012

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Name one player who has improved while with this organization?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Rip, Howard, Wallace, Wallace, jeff Malone off the top of my head.

Of course they only got good enough get traded and get even better, except Howard.

Even with that list, I think you have a good point.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

And let's be clear...do you think Ewing, Robinson (David), Jordan, Bird, Magic, Worthy, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Nash, Nowitzki, Pierce, Motumbo, Gervin, Mullins, etc etc etc needed to be "encouraged" to get better?

Hell Ray Allen was pretty adamant that he wasn't getting the encouragement he wanted for most of his career, but he kept at it.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

At least we got to see what a player who hustles on both ends of the floor, has a pretty complete game (if not the most athletic guy) and hustles almost every minute he is on the floor looks like.


Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 12:05 PM


We could've seen that without giving up the fifth pick, genius, by just tuning in to any Minnesota game in which he played.

Bad move by Ernie. The fifth overall pick for Foye!

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"Might there be teams that get bumped in the 2nd round or conf finals who think they could have gone further with a "better" PF? I am thinking that if Zach Randolph or Josh Smith have trouble in the playoffs, either Memphis or Atlanta might be willing to trade their 1st rounder and soome other developing players (Thabeet???) to us for Jamison around draft time."

That only works if the teams in question think Jamison is "better" than those guys. As good as he is, he's really not (numbers not withstanding), at least for those teams.

The Grizzlies are in the early stages of rebuilding. It's pretty unlikely that whatever happens this season that they're going to panic and take on a big contract attached to an aging player who will either be gone or suffering the effects of age when they finally get to where they want to go. The Hawks are further ahead, but they're also a young team whose success hinges on running in transition and playing defense, two things that Jamison does not excel at.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"And let's be clear...do you think Ewing, Robinson (David), Jordan, Bird, Magic, Worthy, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Nash, Nowitzki, Pierce, Motumbo, Gervin, Mullins, etc etc etc needed to be "encouraged" to get better?"

Exactly my point. Players with the potential to make a real difference don't sit around on their asses waiting for someone to suggest to them that getting better would be a good idea.

The real problem isn't some vaguely perceived failure by the Wizards to "encourage" improvement. The real issue, during the Grunfeld regime, has been a failure to acquire players who had significant potential for growth and improvement coming in the door, something that I've criticized Grunfeld for numerous times in the past.

Aside from his silly schoolboy pissing contest with Eddie Jordan, I think that's been his biggest failing as GM.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

And, of course, it must be pointed out that Haywood was actually acquired by certain people's favorite sacred cow, Michael Jordan, not by Grunfeld.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

As for the instruction and encouragement that you claim that the organization has not provided, how do you know this?

Rbpalmer

This whole subject started when I mentioned the first thing Ernie did as the GM was to release Patrick Ewing and replace him with Phil Hubbad (a point small forward?)

I agree BTH has shown some improvement but I think he would have been more successful if the Wizards had a big man coach for the last 6 years other than Wes Unseld Jr.

As for the instruction and encouragement goes all you have to do is watch a few games. CB can play selfish and take the last shot, AJ can miss practice and start, and nothing happens to them?

But, when AB or JM make a mistake they get benched. How many times has DS started ahead of NY? Players get better by playing in the game. Look at this organization last year, they had no shot at making the playoffs and had the head of player development as their head coach and the young guys still couldn’t get any playing time.

Actions speak louder than words.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I like Miller and Foye is a bit better than I thought but I would still rather have had the fifth pick. We could have had a nice young player to add to the lottery pick we will have this year. All Ernie did was to delay the rebuilding process. Hindsight is 20/20 i know but we passed up the chance to draft quite a few guys who are either producing now or have shown flashes of the potential to produce. Stephen Curry, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Darren Collison, Ty Lawson....and let's not forget Rubio would all have been nice to have as fallback options at point guard. There is also Jordan Hill and Rodrigue Beaubois are now untouchable and highly sought after.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I think many of the guys who are being touted as players we wish we had instead of Foye really havent proven anything.

Ewing, Hakeem, Kareem...none of them would have made BTH significantly better than he is right now because he has very little talent. It's not like with Ewing's help he would be sinking 15ft Js with ease or that Hakeem would have imparted a "Haywood Shake" onto him. The talent just isnt there, but he went to UNC so MJ drafted him.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I think many of the guys who are being touted as players we wish we had instead of Foye really havent proven anything.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:17 PM

And what has Foye really proven?

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

The talent just isnt there, but he went to UNC so MJ drafted him.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:17 PM


Oh that's right all a guy needs to do is go to UNC and MJ'll snatch him right up.
BTW, MJ didn't draft Haywood.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

but he went to UNC so MJ drafted him.


MJ traded Laron Profit and a conditional 1st round pick for center Brendan Haywood the 20th pick in the draft.

Why would you expect him to become a Ewing, Robinson (David), Jordan, Bird, Magic, Worthy, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Nash, Nowitzki, Pierce, Motumbo, Gervin, Mullins or any other top draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

And what has Foye really proven?

Posted by: artiesliver

That he's an up and down player on a garbage team? I dont see the guys being mentioned as being clear contributors to this team. Who cares if we had Steph Curry? He hits a few Js but cant guard anyone? We needed Jonny Flynn, a 5'10" pg whose play has declined all season long for a team as bad as ours? Jennings, a score first pg shooting 37%?

I just dont see it.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh that's right all a guy needs to do is go to UNC and MJ'll snatch him right up.
BTW, MJ didn't draft Haywood.

Posted by: artiesliver

Who did draft Haywood? Who traded Rip for UNC's jerry stackhouse?

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

artie -

MJ traded for BTH shortly after he was drafted. Yeah, it was his call. To be fair, at the time, it seemed like a good deal. I have no recollection what MJ gave up for him.

Regards -

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | February 11, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Why would you expect him to become a Ewing, Robinson (David), Jordan, Bird, Magic, Worthy, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Nash, Nowitzki, Pierce, Motumbo, Gervin, Mullins or any other top draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78

you're saying the organization failed to develop him properly, I'm saying he's just not very good and was never going to be.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

divi -

Rip for Stackhouse was a complete screw-up by MJ. Thats a deal that no one could defend - either at the time and certainly not in hindsight. That was blatant Tar Heel favoritism.

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | February 11, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

And what has Foye really proven?

Posted by: artiesliver

I just dont see it.

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

The team needed a true point guard and that was Ty Lawson.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

ty lawson the 18th pick in the draft, a guy who is probably 5'10" and everybody passed on. Can hardly blame EG for not drafting him with the 5th pick, and it's pretty tough to look at his success on an excellent denver team as proof that he would have done well here dont you think?

not that he doesnt appear to be a good player, he certainly does

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"MJ traded for BTH shortly after he was drafted. Yeah, it was his call. To be fair, at the time, it seemed like a good deal. I have no recollection what MJ gave up for him."

It was a good deal. They had no entrenched player at the position and gave up nothing to get him (Orlando traded the pick Washington gave to Orlando for Haywood to Denver, who used it on Julius Hodge at #20 in 2005.). But that was then and this is now. Signing him to a long-term deal at this stage makes no sense for him or the Wizards.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Rip for Stackhouse was a complete screw-up by MJ. Thats a deal that no one could defend - either at the time and certainly not in hindsight. That was blatant Tar Heel favoritism.

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | February 11, 2010 4:46 PM

Rip was being touted by the team as a franchise player, his contract was coming up for an extension amd MJ did not want to play him franchise player money. He traded him to Detroit where they ultimately signed Rip to a $60 million contract, a sum similar to what he rejected in Washington. That was blatant sound economics, a practice unknown to Grunfeld when it comes to Arenas and Jamison.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

MJ traded Laron Profit and a conditional 1st round pick for center Brendan Haywood the 20th pick in the draft.

Why would you expect him to become a Ewing, Robinson (David), Jordan, Bird, Magic, Worthy, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Nash, Nowitzki, Pierce, Motumbo, Gervin, Mullins or any other top draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I don't expect him to perform like them. I am saying that he was 20th round pick because his conditioning and work ethic were suspect, unlike these guys.

The team may not do much to help players progress, but Haywood could have been better. He could have worked harder, he could have been any number of things. Nobody stopped him but Haywood.

Posted by: Blurred | February 11, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

rip was in the 3rd year of his 4yr rookie deal right? Sound economics would be getting his production at those low prices through all 4yrs...instead we paid Stack close to $13mill for two seasons- more than Rip's entire 4yr deal. Great move MJ!

Posted by: divi3 | February 11, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

You seem pretty confident that Brendan is not a hard worker and could've been a better player by now. You got anything to back that up?

I see NOTHING in his game to suggest that there is untapped potential there.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

the difference between Foye and the players I mentioned is that they are not about to become free agents in a year and their contracts would have been cost effective. Also they may become stars Foye most likely will not. Curry had a triple double last night by the way. He shoots 45.7 % from the field and 43 % from the 3 point line which is above average for a rookie guard let a lone a veteran. Foye is at 43 % and 31.9 % respectively. It's not bad but Curry has been better.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

You seem pretty confident that Brendan is not a hard worker and could've been a better player by now. You got anything to back that up?

I see NOTHING in his game to suggest that there is untapped potential there.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 5:50 PM


Artie you just might be correct...but that would be more damning wouldn't it?

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

Actually, Rip was in the fourth (and therefore, last) year of his deal since he was drafted in 1999. You're right about one thing - great move by MJ! Move a malcontent before selfish "contract year" play affects the rest of the team. Your boy, Arenas, spoke poignantly about this earlier in the season.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

How could it have ever been a good idea to get rid of Rip when all of his numbers improved each year he was here? When you produce you deserve to be rewarded.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

anacostia85,

More damning of whom?

If you're referring to MJ, when he traded for Haywood he didn't have the hindsight of 10 years of journeyman-type NBA play by Haywood and certainly didn't tout him as the next coming of Kareem. He traded for a serviceable big man and that's what Brendan is and will forever be.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

anacostia,

Then why didn't the Pistons reward him with a franchise player contract??

You don't pay 116 million over six years (just as an example) to guy who really is worth about 66 million over six years (again, as an example).

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

no if the case being made is that Haywood has reached his potential that would be all the more reason why we should not resign him. The 9 points and 10 rebounds he has averaged in his "breakout" season are not that hard to replace. He never asked for a max deal & I never said he deserved one. He did deserves the 7 year 62 million that he got

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Rip was never a problem here.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 11, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

"Rip was never a problem here."

He was for Michael Jordan's ego. It was reported at the time that the two butted heads over Rip's refusal to happily play the Scottie Pippen-like sidekick role. It was documented that they got into more than one locker room yelling match, including one where Hamilton was hear to say something to the effect of "I'm not a Jordanaire (the collective nickname given to MJ's supporting cast in Chicago), I'm an NBA player."

Soon after that, MJ traded him for his Carolina homey, Jerry "I'm shuttin' it down" Stackhouse.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 11, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

You forgot to squeeze Rip's reported contract demands into your chronology. At least you gave it a good old college try!

Posted by: artiesliver | February 11, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Hard to evaluate Ty Lawson outside the context of Denver, where he plays behind one of the NBA's best and in one of the league's better offenses. He's averaging what, 22 minutes? off the bench, and has started 8 games. He looks like a better shooter than people thought, and is certainly a very strong player.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 11, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

I seem to recall that MJ's stated reasons for the Rip trade was that Rip was just a jump-shooter and MJ wanted someone who could 'create his own shot.' It didn't make a ton of sense to me at the time, and it makes even less in retrospect. But being reminded of some of the beefs he had with MJ and his contract status, it starts to make more sense. I don't know if Rip could have been the player he became if he had stayed here though. I think that Detroit team caught a little lightning in a bottle with the group of guys they assembled.

As for the #5 for Foye and Miller debate. I like the deal a lot better if Miller is willing to hang around at a reasonable salary. Neither Foye nor Miller are franchise guys, but both are solid players. Also, while people are complaining about giving up a shot at youth with the #5 pick, let's not forget Foye is just 26. About at the age when some guys who were combo guys coming out of college start to put things together. I think he still has the potential to become a point guard in the Billups mold. But at worst, he's a solid guard who can swing between either position offensively and defensively and at a reasonable $4 mil price tag for next year. Personally I believe that if he hangs around and is willing to learn from Cassell about game management and just hoops in general, he can become a very effective player. But, as usual, time will tell. A lot will depend on the team that is in place after Feb 18.

Posted by: ts35 | February 12, 2010 4:10 AM | Report abuse

That’s the reason these are called trade rumors.

The best thing that could happen is nothing.

Ernie is just as incompetent as the government and why would anyone want him to make the deals that shape the Wizards future?

Look at what happens to the country whenever one side gets control of the White House and congress…they screw things up.

Kal can come to Ernie’s defense all he wants, but the bottom line is the Wizards record and that speaks for itself.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2010 6:26 PM | Report abuse

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