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Where do the Wizards go from here?

After announcing their desire to hit the reset button on this team and shed salary after dealing Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson to Dallas, the Wizards remain aggressive about trying to make some more deals to cut payroll and get under the luxury tax this season.

The trade with the Mavericks chopped nearly $2.5 million off the books this season. And, with the team getting relief in the form of a 50 percent discount for the salaries of the suspended Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenton, the Wizards' luxury tax penalty has been reduced to about $3 million.

The Wizards have no desire to hand the owner a luxury tax bill for a woefully bad lottery team. In order to get under the tax, the Wizards would have to deal more players and give out more money than they take back. They could also trade with teams that have trade exceptions. There are twenty teams with trade exceptions that could be used in deals in which the salaries don't match up - and most of them expire on Thursday. The other option is making trades for players and buying them out.

Depending on what happens with Antawn Jamison or if the Wizards make other trades down the road, a buyout could be an option for Drew Gooden - although a league source told me that that isn't something that has been considered or discussed at this point.

The Wizards actually need Gooden to play right now. But Gooden has also grown accustomed to playing on contending teams. Last season, Gooden was traded by the Chicago Bulls near the deadline and negotiated a buyout with Sacramento in order to finish the season in San Antonio.

Of course, the Wizards could also buy out other players on expiring deals, such as Mike James, who has been unable to get moved since asking for a trade after the first preseason game.

There are a lot of reports out there that the Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send Amaré Stoudemire to Cleveland. The Suns, according to reports, are said to be mulling an offer of Zydrunas Ilgauskas's expiring contract, second-year forward J.J. Hickson, and a draft pick.

The discussions between Cleveland and Phoenix make sense since Cavaliers general manager Danny Ferry and Suns general manager Steve Kerr are former teammates with the San Antonio and close friends. They've also collaborated on deals in the past; most notably the Shaquille O'Neal deal last summer.

But there is also speculation that the talk is actually a smoke screen to get the Wizards to give them Jamison. As I said before, there is a lot of posturing at this time. The Wizards did the same thing with Cleveland with all of those rumors about sending Butler and Jamison to Boston.

It's almost like a girl flirting with somebody in order to get the guy they want to get jealous and make a move. This dance is played a lot in the days leading up to the deadline, but as one NBA executive told me recently, "Nobody can make anyone do what they don't want to do."

I've been told that the Cavaliers aren't the only team interested in Jamison. Miami has also expressed interest of late, according to a league source.

The Wizards definitely need to start over. No need to call it rebuilding, because in order to rebuild you have to something that you have stripped down. This is a 17-win team headed for another trip to Secaucus, N.J., in May. The Wizards would love to keep Jamison for his professionalism and character, but they also know that there is no reason to half-step through this process.

Moving Jamison could potentially help the Wizards in the short term and the long term -- and give Jamison a chance to play for something meaningful again.

By Michael Lee  |  February 15, 2010; 12:06 AM ET
 
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Next: Poll: What should the Wizards do next?

Comments

Depressing...let's keep on making moves though. A draft pick would be great. Thanks

Posted by: rfzonadc | February 15, 2010 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Who said six appearances was a magic number for players to flock to the team d o uche bag? Be intellectually dishonest and stupid if you wish. It's about building a winning tradition and, yeah, that would have gone a long way towards that goal.

Posted by: rphilli721

My point, c r etin, is you are insane if you think a couple more years of first round playoff losses would have enticed players to take a discount to join the Wiz. Dream on!
Your point is moot anyway since Ernie has been spending money the last couple years like he has a U.S. Mint printing press in his basement.

Posted by: Firuz1 | February 15, 2010 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Where do they go from here?

Take the best offer they can get for Jamison and move on. They need to get younger, more atletic and hope they get lucky in the draft for a few years.

Posted by: 2020doc | February 15, 2010 12:33 AM | Report abuse

At this point it's hard to see how the Wizards don't deal Jamison. The only question is whether they can find a team that is willing to take on his contract.

I don't see an issue with moving Gooden or any other pieces at this point either.

Mike Miller has looked solid when healthy this year, but I've got to figure that the Wizards will even look to move him -- maybe they can get some value for him before his contract expires. I have a hard time seeing him -- or pretty much any veteran that wants to win in the near-term wanting to stick around.

The Wizards are likely going to be lottery bound for at least a couple more seasons -- perhaps longer.

Posted by: JPRS | February 15, 2010 12:45 AM | Report abuse

I've always wondered why Gooden has never been able to stick anywhere...he's good for a double double everynight...
Depressing that it's come to this for the Wiz...those consecutive playoff appearances (first round exit or not)were fun times...seems like years before we'll have that type of "success" again...

Posted by: Maestro301 | February 15, 2010 1:01 AM | Report abuse

If only Good were good for a double double every night, he would stick around.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 15, 2010 1:19 AM | Report abuse

If only Good were good for a double double every night, he would stick around.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 15, 2010 1:19 AM

When he gets the time he produces

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 15, 2010 1:35 AM | Report abuse

the Wizards remain aggressive about trying to make some more deals to cut payroll and get under the luxury tax this season.


Gee who would thought since the Wizards accidently went over the cap for the first time this year that they would have a fire sale in order to avoid paying any luxury cap money this season.

Wait a minute...I did back before the season started when everyone was boasting how the old man finally made a commitment to try and win by spending some money.

Don't believe me ask Larry.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 2:48 AM | Report abuse

I can't imagine why Miami would be trying to land Jamison. They only have three players on the books for next season, so are one of the teams with the bast chance at landing one or two of the top level free agents and retaining Dwayne Wade. The only way for them to get Jamison and keep the same money available would be to give us Beasley and convince us to take on another $7 mil of players we wouldn't want.

Posted by: segastyle | February 15, 2010 2:51 AM | Report abuse

Thank God everyone drank their kool aid this moring and we are all back under the control of Abe, Ernie and kal.

I love a team that strives to be mediocre?

Does anyone understand Orlando and Clev got better for two reasons.

1st they made moves to get them over the top

2nd they both were in the playoffs last year

How can anyone think the Wizards are ready to take the next step?

Gil hasn't played in two years so he's not going to come back and be in playing condition not to mention BTH who is no Howard when it comes to being in shape.

Does anyone remember when the "Small 3" were healthy they couldn't get by Clev then?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 26, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 6:59 AM | Report abuse

and maybe if the organization played the young guys we would have faith in AB and JM on the front line this year.

Considering the team didn't even have enough faith in them (to play them any meaningful minutes last year) why should we believe they are ready to step up now?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 26, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:00 AM | Report abuse

Ernie Grunfeld should resign, he can't possibly save face

Posted by: emmet1 | June 26, 2009 1:26 PM

How about if you, bulletsfan78 and all the other haters agree to apologize to Abe and Ernie and quit posting your vitriol if the Wizards win 50+ or make it to the conference finals.

Posted by: Blurred | June 26, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Who owes who an apology?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:02 AM | Report abuse

How about if you, bulletsfan78 and all the other haters agree to apologize to Abe and Ernie and quit posting your vitriol if the Wizards win 50+ or make it to the conference finals.

Posted by: Blurred | June 26, 2009 3:19 PM

I'll agree if Abe will give all the season ticket holder a refund if they don't?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 26, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:03 AM | Report abuse

The other GMs may be posturing, but Grunfeld clearly isn't. After moving Haywood and Butler, it makes no sense for the Wizards not to move Jamison and anyone else with a high salary that they can.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 15, 2010 7:08 AM | Report abuse

As for DaJuan Blair, if he racks up fewer that 45 DNP-CDs next season, I'll be shocked.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 29, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:08 AM | Report abuse

These were my posts the day the Wizards announced...

And the Wizards Select Foye, Miller ... And $2.5 Mil

Some people can have foresight if they know the game of basketball and have an open mind which isn't controled by the Wizards

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:13 AM | Report abuse

The Draft starts in less then an hour...I can't wait to see who the Wizards draft with the 5th pick? I'm sorry they drafted a 29 year old white guy who can't play D and a guy who scored 14 pts on a team as bad as the Wizards were last year?

I guess we can wait and see how the other GM's in the east con other teams out of their all stars and see who we will sell our second pick too.

What a night!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 25, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:17 AM | Report abuse

Just got off the course and shot an
80 :(

Sorry I thought I was on facebook!

San Antonio making a roster upgrade with Richard Jefferson, the Hawks adding Jamal Crawford and Cleveland stealing the spotlight with the acquisition of Shaquille O'Neal... and the Wizards got Mike Miller?

Saunders cracked a smile as he considered the possibilities of a team that has so many versatile players -- Arenas and Foye can play one or two; Miller can play three positions, and Butler can play shooting guard and small forward; Andray Blatche can possibly play three positions. "This trade gives us more flexibility as far as how we want to play," Saunders.

In other words none of these players can play the position they should play very well. Why not start Gil, Foye, Miller, CB, and AJ since they are so "versatile"?


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 25, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:20 AM | Report abuse

Cheap Abe paid 1 million for the club and now it's worth $353 million I think he can afford to go over the luxury cap once in his lifetime?

Spend some of the profits you've been getting over all of the years you didn't go over the cap. Sign a good big man for the full MLE and I will never call you cheap on this site again.

Now, if they go out and sign a sub par big man at the leauge minimum and sell the 2nd pick for ca$h, what does that tell you Wizard fans?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 25, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:21 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78: "San Antonio making a roster upgrade with Richard Jefferson, the Hawks adding Jamal Crawford and Cleveland stealing the spotlight with the acquisition of Shaquille O'Neal... and the Wizards got Mike Miller?"

If you put it that way... no, you shouldn't.

Jefferson's a fine player, but what's Ginobili's status going to be next year? Is this a significant upgrade or an attempt to replace one of their anchor stars on the run?

I'm aware of coaches who for all his talent, wouldn't accept Jamal Crawford on a bet.

Shaq -- well, he's still a force, but a lot less of one than he once was. You wonder if they sent LeBron a wire saying, "See, King? We're really, really trying."

I dunno, Foye and Miller seem like as much or more of an upgrade as any of the others. And if Gilbert gets hurt, the Wiz may have hedged their bet as much as the Spurs.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 25, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:22 AM | Report abuse

How about if you, bulletsfan78 and all the other haters agree to apologize to Abe and Ernie and quit posting your vitriol if the Wizards win 50+ or make it to the conference finals.

Posted by: Blurred | June 26, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Who owes who an apology?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:02 AM | Report abuse

And here it is...I was wrong about this team. But note that nowhere there did I personally attack anyone. So what am I supposed to apologize for?

I am still hoping that we play McGee so my prediction of McGee supplanting Haywood's minutes by the 50 game mark might still be on track. Somehow, I am not sure that McGee will get minutes, though.

Posted by: Blurred | February 15, 2010 7:22 AM | Report abuse

GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 25, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

GM,

I miss you since you were one of the few on here who really understood the game of basketball

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:23 AM | Report abuse

Gotta move Jamison. I don't see the benefit in only moving Caron and Haywood. That's not enough money coming off the books.

They're going to have to start over. Not just move Caron.

Posted by: millineumman | February 15, 2010 7:25 AM | Report abuse

The New Jersey Nets are in serious talks with the Magic about a deal that will send Vince Carter to Orlando for Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and Courtney Lee, two league sources told ESPN.com.

If this trade is true why didn't EG offer Critt, Nick Young and AB for Carter? That way they could have kept their draft pick and drafted someone who could some day be as good as Foye?

If the Wizards are commited to playing no D and hope their O is good enough to win a championship I would take Carter points over Miller and Foye?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 25, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Ernie,

Are you watching what is going on with the other East teams?

These GM's are going by you like power forwards went by AJ last year?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 25, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:25 AM | Report abuse

I could go back and find more posts to prove my point about how Ernie screwed up this team by trading the 5th pick last years but it really doesn't matter anymore?

What does matter is he is making the same mistakes now and in a year I'll have to post yesterdays post when you all are making excuses for him then.

Ernie needs to go!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:29 AM | Report abuse

Blurred

I don't care about an apology.

I am just trying to explain to the people on here that by letting Ernie clean house he is hurting the club by not getting any draft picks.

He's just not a very good GM.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:34 AM | Report abuse

Sorry guys for all of the posts but I don't sleep very well when I am on the West Coast.

My point is the Wizards organization (Irene) are making these moves to save money first!

It's not like the Pollin family isn't going to make an armoured truck full of cash when they sell the team?

If they waited to make these moves either right before the trade deadline or before next years draft they (with a good GM) should be able to get some draft picks to rebuild with.

The direction Ernie and Irene are taking the team it will take another 5 years to rebuild but neither one of them care because the fans never really mattered to them.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 7:51 AM | Report abuse

We are $3 Million over the cap and need to be under it? Seriously?What about the cash we received for not drafting Blair? Was that was pocket money for the Polins.

This franchise has been a nightmare since I moved to DC as a child(1984). We blame it on a curse. The only curse, is all of us being stuck with a horrible owner. Sell the team already!

Leonsis gives us the best shot at rebuilding. We will then have no owner loyalties that need to appeased. No Ernie Grunfield, who cannot draft and seems to have no value for the draft.

Let's be real for once.

Posted by: DeepThreat | February 15, 2010 7:55 AM | Report abuse

From here we must get the new owner in here. For, any moves made by this group is just posturing,

Any moves made probably is for nought until we have someone in control that knows what to do with the moves.

You say get young and atheletic and some youg draft choices in hear. It all soulds good.

But I ask myself, Is all that good stuff Flip Saunders cup of tea?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 15, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

For those hitting on Jarvis Hayes - if you have been a fan long enough, you would know that Jarvis came in his rookie season and started, because Stack went down with an injury. As a rookie, Jarvis started 40 games, played 70 games and 29 minutes avg, 9.6 pts per game, and for a rookie, hit reasonable shot percentages. He produced right away. For the most part, his shot left with his knee injury; regardless of who drafted him, his is yet another unfortunate career story, but he was not a bad pick by any means and his career was progressing until the injury.

2nd topic - It's fine some people never liked the Wizards' big 3 and remain jealous of the Lakers and Celtics perennial good fortune and drawing power (or Cleveland's once in a century bit of draft luck) - I'll agree it was up in the air whether our big 3 could get to or beyond the 2nd round. But on paper and on the court, for their various flaws, they were a very respectable trio. Saying anything else is an alternate reality. Go ahead and post all the quotes you want - it is not easy for a GM to assemble 3 All Stars on one team. So even if it was a flawed big three, it was still the best Bullets/Wizards fans have seen in 3 decades. Miller and Foye were EXCELLENT acquisitions under that scenario - back-up to the questions surrounding Gil's return, expert 3 pt shooting on the cheap since Mike had a regression last season, all in all two excellent role players.

I think there is value in some moderate recognition that the extreme pessimistic views last summer turned out to be dead on accurate in this particular case, but that was no sign of genius, it was the result of unpredictable circumstances.

I'm crawling back into my own hole now, this debate just gets surreal when rotisserie league GMs start thinking they are better than the world, and use 20/20 hindsight to prove it.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 8:11 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if Grunfeld is a good GM or not, but I have the suspicion that this year he has been earning his pay. In addition to all the issues in the first half of the season, now he has to restructure the team's payroll while at the same time keeping a competitive team on the floor for the second half of the season. Meanwhile, the fan base is angry and want's everyone fired, from the current owners down to the team doctors.

Then, when the dust settles, he's got to deal with the Arenas situation somehow.

I hope he is keeping a journal so that he can write a book about this season.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 15, 2010 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Honey dew list before the 2010 DRAFT:

Sell the team. Fire the GM. Convince TOM THIBODAUX to be the new coach. Trade JAMISON. Deal with ARENAS. Sign MIKE MILLER. Play McGEE, BLATCHE, McGUIRE, and YOUNG. Draft wisely for once.

Posted by: glawrence007 | February 15, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Let me add, in the very valid sports approach of "the future is now" you DO give up good picks to build for the present. Did it blow up in Ernie's face this time? Yes it did. But is it a high percentage strategy, yes it is. Many teams should not go for a "future is now approach" with their rosters, and it's obvious the Wizards are not likely to be able to do it again for quite a while.

One last point - if the Wizards make no other moves, it may have been better to wait a few days with this last trade. But the flexibility of extra days to try to make some further trades is what Ernie went for, plus the fact that doors may have closed on him for this first trade.

I resisted the best I could not to bring politics into this, but watch Fox News Channel any evening between 8 and 10 and you can see the exact same constant monday morning quarterbacking and cherry picking of facts that you see here. It's turned out to be a great vocation and gets quite a follwing, but it will always be only partial logic.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

I resisted the best I could not to bring politics into this, but watch Fox News Channel any evening between 8 and 10 and you can see the exact same constant monday morning quarterbacking and cherry picking of facts that you see here. It's turned out to be a great vocation and gets quite a follwing, but it will always be only partial logic.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Agree. And there's a lot of that going around these days.

Posted by: glawrence007 | February 15, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

They should have traded the young kids as well. Hopefully they will. Keep DM and JM, dump AB and NY. I see them as cancers on this team.

Posted by: frankjomama | February 15, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

resisted the best I could not to bring politics into this, but watch Fox News Channel any evening between 8 and 10 and you can see the exact same constant monday morning quarterbacking and cherry picking of facts

That's only been going on in this country for about 200 years.

It's called democracy.

Folks like it when they don't like the people running the country. But they dislike it when they like the people running the country.

Same old same old

Posted by: SteveMG | February 15, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

My opinion of Haywood's defense has nothing to do with blocked shots or defensive rebounds. It's with his ability to challenge shots with his effort & length. When he's in the game, teams take more jumpers and attack the rim less. He's by no means a great rebounder but you got to love the way he consistently puts a body on someone a blocks them out, allowing for AJ's inflated rebounding totals the past five years.

I never understood that logic. Or that Jamison gets "lucky rebounds".

Posted by: SDMDTSU | February 15, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Set AJ Free!

Posted by: tundey | February 15, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Let me add, in the very valid sports approach of "the future is now" you DO give up good picks to build for the present.


Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Mark Cuban didn't he got CB and Haywood to try and win NOW and he didn't have to add a draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

By these ridiculous moves, how can they expect to have any fans at the Phone Booth - or any fans left for that matter?

Does anyone care about the fans and the $$$ they bring to the arena?

Question: Does Flip Saunders have any say in the trades, etc?

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 15, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"but you got to love the way he consistently puts a body on someone a blocks them out, allowing for AJ's inflated rebounding totals the past five years."

AJ averaged 9 boards last year while Haywood sat out. Interesting to note AJ has more 20reb games than supposed defender/rebounder Haywood.

but anyways, bth's inability to produce anything in the 4th quarter is dallas' problem now

Posted by: divi3 | February 15, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

That deal is not dead for AB fo DJ Augustien according to my sources. Also look for AB to go to Mil and team up with Bougut as well.

Posted by: TheGodFather | February 15, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

By these ridiculous moves, how can they expect to have any fans at the Phone Booth - or any fans left for that matter?

Does anyone care about the fans and the $$$ they bring to the arena?

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 15, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Lisa_R

Why should they start caring now they never did before.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Hey MICHEAL LEE: DO YOU REALLY THINK ANYONE IS GOING TO TAKE ON AJ's SALARY AND GIVE US ANYTHING DECENT IN RETURN??? DREAM ON MY FRIEND

Posted by: BruinSteve | February 15, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I never understood that logic. Or that Jamison gets "lucky rebounds".

Posted by: SDMDTSU
-------------------------------------------

Jamison didn't get "lucky rebounds." He has great hands (among the best I've seen). But I do believe Haywood helped Jamison's rebounding stats. How many times did you see Haywood had to challenge shots by opposing PF (Jamison's guy), and allowed Jamison to clloect missed shots. I alwasy thought that was nice in divvying up the work, each doing what they do best (or better).

Posted by: sagaliba | February 15, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

We need to demand quality back for AJ. I disagree with those who say we "can't get anything decent in return". The man is averaging 20.5 pts and 8.8 rebounds per game - he is also a professional and a leader.

For comparison purposes, There are only 1 PF that averages more pts and rebounds than Jamison - Chris Bosh. http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PF

Posted by: BT23 | February 15, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Congrads wiz fans, seems you got almost everything you ask for after they lose. You wanted last years coach fired, you got it, you wanted GA gone, hes gone, you wanted to move CB and AJ for players and draft picks because they cant get past the first round of the playoffs, you got one wish and one on the way by thursday. You wanted a new owner, you will get one. All thats left is fire the GM. Next year you can wish for another new coach. We are officially the detroit lions. Are we happier now for going from an underacheiving team with playoff potential players to an underacheiving team with no star players and no playoffs for the next few years anyway. Now we will be waiting each summer for the lotery and firing coaches every two years. Much better than losing in the first round of the playoffs dont you think?

Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Where do the Wiz go from here? hmmmm

Have you you ever seen the movie Flushed Away? yea after the poop goes down the toilet that movie will show you what happens from there.

Posted by: unkonchus | February 15, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Good stuff, Michael. I think you summed it up very well in your last paragraph, and it seems everyone concurs - but I still get the feeling Ernie is not feeling the urgency to trade him - which would be unfortunate for everyone. I hope I'm wrong. I want to watch Jamison in this year's playoffs!

Posted by: Giveussomehope | February 15, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse


We need to demand quality back for AJ. I disagree with those who say we "can't get anything decent in return". The man is averaging 20.5 pts and 8.8 rebounds per game - he is also a professional and a leader. For comparison purposes, There are only 1 PF that averages more pts and rebounds than Jamison - Chris Bosh.

The major difference is FG percentage.
Bosh - 53% Jamison - 45%

Jamison needs a lot more shots to get his points and any team looking to acquire him is fully aware of that.

Posted by: tgif11 | February 15, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

The problem in DC is its like LA, a lot of outsiders who only seem interested in local sports teams if they are already proven winners with championship potential. We did not really appreciate this wizards team when they were making the playoffs and winning games because they werent the spurs or pistons at that time, championship teams, so we started calling for this as fans years ago. We wanted coaches fired and players traded back in 2006. Problem is we have fair weathered fans that will only support the wizards if they can be assured that they will win every night. Otherwise we would rather be club or bar hopping. Our fan base is a bunch of outsiders who really dont have any passion for local teams that arent built in winners because the fans arent from here originally. How can you have passion for a local DC team when you are really a bulls or jazz fan or you are from florida or texas and just came here for school or a job. No loyal fan base. So if you dont win the big prize here the fans consider you expendable. Right now we love the caps but let them lose to Pittsburgh again in the playoffs and we will start talking about trading players and firing coaches just like we do the wizards.

Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

So LeBron James tells everyone and their mother that he wants a "stretch" forward, aka Antawn Jamison, to take the pressure off of him when he drives the lane. Read: Shaq daddy is clogging it up in the middle.

Shaq reportedly got shipped out of Phoenix because he and Amare Stoudemire were umm, clogging up the lanes.

Cleveland hems and haws over the Jamison, the cheaper player they need, because they don't want to give up Hickson. Yet they're happy to give up Hickson for the more expensive player they DO NOT need.

If Grunfeld hasn't called "Bull$pit" on this, then yeah, kick him to the curb.

If you are Danny Ferry, you trade for Jamison this year; then trade him for Stoudemire over the summer when the Diesel's deal is up.

It's interesting how Miami comes up in Jamison trade rumors, right about the time that there were rumors that Stoudemire was looking to move to Miami as well....

Posted by: mabkhar | February 15, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Congrads wiz fans, seems you got almost everything you ask for after they lose. You wanted last years coach fired, you got it, you wanted GA gone, hes gone, you wanted to move CB and AJ for players and draft picks because they cant get past the first round of the playoffs, you got one wish and one on the way by thursday. You wanted a new owner, you will get one. All thats left is fire the GM. Next year you can wish for another new coach. We are officially the detroit lions. Are we happier now for going from an underacheiving team with playoff potential players to an underacheiving team with no star players and no playoffs for the next few years anyway. Now we will be waiting each summer for the lotery and firing coaches every two years. Much better than losing in the first round of the playoffs dont you think?

Posted by: geo0386

I agree with you totally. And if the GM stays, waiting for the Lottery is pointless since he trades our lottery picks away for other players OR CASH.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 15, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Jamison didn't get "lucky rebounds." He has great hands (among the best I've seen). But I do believe Haywood helped Jamison's rebounding stats. How many times did you see Haywood had to challenge shots by opposing PF (Jamison's guy), and allowed Jamison to clloect missed shots. I alwasy thought that was nice in divvying up the work, each doing what they do best (or better).

Honestly. I didn't see much of that at all last season, and Jamison still got the same number of rebounds.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | February 15, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78

Big man? What big man? You think chris bosh wants to come here and play for a rebuilding team and for fans that dont show up and boo when they do show up? Give us your fantasy GM senario that you get a quality big man. We could not even get Rasheed right now if we wanted him. And he isnt even a premere big man anymore. Maybe we can draft some guys and keep them and hope they become star players. Thats all we have left. I think getting AJ, GA and CB to come here in the same era was a lucky accomplishment and the chance of them getting that lucky again is slim.

Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Cleveland hems and haws over the Jamison, the cheaper player they need, because they don't want to give up Hickson. Yet they're happy to give up Hickson for the more expensive player they DO NOT need. If Grunfeld hasn't called "Bull$pit" on this, then yeah, kick him to the curb.

It would seem to be a curious reunion.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq

Posted by: tgif11 | February 15, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Let me add, in the very valid sports approach of "the future is now" you DO give up good picks to build for the present.
Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 8:23 AM
=========================

With all due respect,... "The future is now" is the worst theory applied in franchise building. It is built on more hope than substance.
Okay, this is the "now generation", doesn't mean I'm goint to become a millionaire before I'm 32. If I am not fortunate, I have to put in the work and expect to not skip steps.

What is "the future is now" high percentage at? Staying afloat? Saving jobs maybe?

It's a theory that is deceptive to fans and IMO is only good for a few teams that are really close to a title. (Cleveland,Denver maybe)

IMO if you don't have a realistic shot at it all, continue to draft wise in order to get enough pieces that could one day get you what will really push you over the top.

Posted by: millineumman | February 15, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

you and I are not that far off on "future is now". I didn't want to elaborate too far before, but I probably should have. I'm not backtracking, just clarifying because you provide a good argument. I agree, it is not a way to build a franchise. It can be termed a desperation move by a team that's window is waning/closing. But a lot of people agree that's where the Wizards were last summer. Also, many teams in many sports have found themselves in that position, so across the board, every sports year there are a number of teams in multiple sports that need to decide to go for broke (future is now). My point is, it is a high percentage approach for teams already painted into the corner of their window closing (like the Wizards were). However, I am not saying it always brings a championship. Probably rarely does. But for fans of any hard luck team in any sport, just getting a good run in the playoffs is better than not, so a "future is now" approach at least shows the commitment by team management to go for broke. There is only 1 team in every sport that wins it all each season; that leaves about 29 teams that don't. For those in a position to build and wait, that works for them, but there is always a subset of teams that are close enough AND having a contract or age window closing that they need to go for broke. It's a natural subset of the range of team circumstances. It's another argument whether a team should have found themselves in that position in the first place, but overly cautious decision makers rarely get anywhere and risk takers sometime succeed. The wizards took some risks for succuss, but unfortunately didn't make it this time. I applaud them for giving it a try though.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Trade proposal:

Wizards trade: Jamison, Miller, James

Houston Trades: McGrady, Lowry

Reasons: Pretty much a salary dump - Wizards dump Jamison's contract and get McGrady's expiring deal. You offer Miller and James, two solid contributors with expiring contracts to sweeten the deal.

Get Lowry - Solid PG that we are lacking. Pair Lowry with his former Villanova teammate Foye and you have a formidable backcourt.

Houston becomes a serious contender with Jamison and Miller on that team. Will provide them with leadership, experience and scoring.

Wizards save $3 million this year - This trade will net in a $3 million decrease in salary this year saving the Wizards from luxury tax payments.

This trade should happen.

Posted by: jomama2323 | February 15, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Grunfield is starting to become the Wizards Cerrato.....get him outta here!!!

And send Jamison to a contender...he deserves it!! No need to force him to stay around this BS!!!

Posted by: chicoexcell | February 15, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Abe Pollin never spent the money on this team until several years ago and that money was then spent on a core that didn't have the overall talent and mix to be a true contender.

That is the pain of being in Washington and watching this team over time.

Always a dollar short and a day late.

Sometimes you have to MAKE your own luck.

The Wizards complain about being in the lottery and never getting a chance to move up and select a franchise player to be a winner.

The Lakers haven't had a top 5 pick in how long? The Spurs haven't had a top pick in how long?

Back in the 1980's the Lakers TWICE obtained the first pick in the draft, not by sitting around losing 65 games, but by trading with teams LIKELY to lose big and sit at the head of the table come draft time.

Posted by: leopard09 | February 15, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I really get sick of the people who think we ought to give away a player like Jamison just so he can win. What NBA world do they live in. They should not give away anything -- especially the class of the team. This team will stink for years to come.

Posted by: Rodbro | February 15, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Point blank NOBODY has a chance of winning a championship without a superstar player. Don't give me the Pistons because that's one time in EVER. It just doesn't happen. All the pieces in the world aren't going to get it done without someone that can black out and go nuts and take over.

A superstar with at least 3-5 dependable players that bring something every night. Not many teams have that.

Not many teams have a chance in hell of winning a title.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | February 15, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The Lakers haven't had a top 5 pick in how long? The Spurs haven't had a top pick in how long?

Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant and hall of fame/all-time great players tend to have that effect on teams.

Back in the 1980's the Lakers TWICE obtained the first pick in the draft, not by sitting around losing 65 games, but by trading with teams LIKELY to lose big and sit at the head of the table come draft time.

It's 2010. I don't think the Nets will be trading their first round pick. This year or next. I already know the response to this answer. I'll wait for it though.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | February 15, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Everybody stop with the freakin "draft picks" after about the 6th pick, by and large NBA players are a definite crap shoot, and most end up journeymen. I will give you the fact that DBlair should be a Wizard, but I totally blame that on Abe. Great guy and by many accounts a saint in this town, but he admittedly did not want to go any further over the cap and have to pay more luxury tax. Everybody wants to kill Grunfeld, but I still can't figure out what Steve Kerr did to deserve his job! All he has tried to do since he has been there is trade Stoudamire... Here a trade Mr. Kerr Jamison, Blatche, Young, MJames and Oberto for Stoudamire and JRichardson. We'll take your Garbage

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | February 15, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I agree the Wizzies had a good plan --- keep a core of talented players and let them form a chemistry like the Pistons when they won the championship in 2004 and contended the next couple of years without a Kobe or Labron.
Good plan bad execution by the Wizzies.
Tuff to win without a dominating player nowadays.
Kobe's & Labron's are few and far between.
Can't wait for the next move.

Posted by: VBFan | February 15, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

ragtop4spd;

I got you,we are not that far off. And I agree that the tough situation most GM's are in is balancing the wants of fans that are tired of losing (and want to at least make the playoffs) VS. the fans that want it all. Who will continue to come and spend money.

I do understand that. I just didn't think the big three where blowing people out the water. They were winning 50% of their games. Trading away the 5th pick in last years draft could very well be a push, but Ernie seems to not think much of the draft. Drafting only when he can't get rid of the pick.


Posted by: millineumman | February 15, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78

I love mediocre fans who complain about their team because they arent a championship team without realizing their is only one championship team every year and the rest of us fans just have to love their team because we are loyal fans, not because they win championships every year. You call yourself a fan yet cant appriciate your team even when it wins because it loses in the playoffs. What kind of fan are you if thats the only time you can appreciate your team. A mediocre fan.

Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

You know everyone keeps talking about Caron was probably happy to go but I saw an interview with him last week and the question was put to him about leaving and joining a championship contending team. His answer regarding the trade went something like this. He said that he understands that his being traded was a business decision but he would like to stay here and make this team into something special because he loved the city and its fans and how everyone embraced him with open arms when he came here and he did not especially want to leave.

Posted by: ivyleague | February 15, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

millineumman

You know when a good players wants to play for a bad team? When that team has a loyal fan base. Wizards fans are not that loyal, they are mostly like you, cynical, angry, impatient and epithetic. If you are a mediocre or middle of the road team you with those type of fans and you as a GM can get Coron, AJ and Gilbert to come here you have done well as a GM. If I was a star player I would not want to come to a team than fans never show unless you are already winning, trash their team from top to bottom on web blogs and boo them when they do show up at games. If you were an NBA player would you want to play for fans like yourself or would you want to play for a team like the mavs, cavs or suns whos fans have always been loyal even when their team was not as competitive as they wished. Washington has a lousy fan base for its teams.

Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

So, to me since Jamison was the one who is really in want of a championship before he retires(in about two year, he said) I wonder why the could not have just granted Jamison his wish and traded him and kept Caron and played him in the position in which he excels. Caron has been playing out of position since EJ left and his game has suffered.

Posted by: ivyleague | February 15, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

millineumman

You know when a good players wants to play for a bad team? When that team has a loyal fan base. Wizards fans are not that loyal, they are mostly like you, cynical, angry, impatient and epithetic. If you are a mediocre or middle of the road team you with those type of fans and you as a GM can get Coron, AJ and Gilbert to come here you have done well as a GM. If I was a star player I would not want to come to a team than fans never show unless you are already winning, trash their team from top to bottom on web blogs and boo them when they do show up at games. If you were an NBA player would you want to play for fans like yourself or would you want to play for a team like the mavs, cavs or suns whos fans have always been loyal even when their team was not as competitive as they wished. Washington has a lousy fan base for its teams.

Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 11:38 AM

How many sellouts did the Cavs have before Lebron got there? Knicks fans don't boo? It is ridiculous for you to think that because we are fans we must drink the kool-aid. Ernie made mistakes and he must face the consequences if we had won a title the he would have deserved praise. This was HIS master plan. He brought in Gil and believed he was worthy of a max deal even though he was injured. He assembled a team full of jump shooters. He assembled a team that can't play any defense. It blew up in his face. He thought this team was good enough so that he could either deal away or waste the draft picks.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 15, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

millineumman

You know when a good players wants to play for a bad team?
Posted by: geo0386 | February 15, 2010 11:38 AM

When that is the only team that will pay them what they feel they are worth.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 15, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I would think that they could get a draft choice for Antwan? That would be better than getting players to then cut loose. Draft picks is a good way to start over!

Posted by: blazerguy234 | February 15, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Jamison or Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting.

Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O’Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O’Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.

One surprising note: According to a source, Amare's agent has yet to be contacted by the Cavs. Since Stoudemire has an early termination clause in his contract, it’s possible that Cleveland is willing to acquire Stoudemire without assurances that he will stay with the Cavs beyond this season. Still, one should expect the Cavs to gather some sort of intel on Stoudemire’s wishes.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 15, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

It's a slap in the face to Jamison if they don't trade him. Of all of the Wizards, he's always given 100% and has been the consumate professional.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 15, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Shaq would be pissed if that deal went down LOL

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 15, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

geo0386;
you are a sensitive person. At no point did I suggest that I or anyone else should not support the team. I do not have to agree with all the decisions made and my post cleary shows considerations for professional trying to do their jobs. You call me angry? Based on what? Because I don't have the same views as you, you come at me with sarcastic smart Azz Bs.

Don't come at me like that, and don't respond to my post. Just leave me alone altogether. I can disagree with someone and have a conversation, not attack them for having a different opinion.

And I'm the angry one ?

Posted by: millineumman | February 15, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I think the salary dumps are a necessary precursor to a Leonsis purchase. We don't know what's said behind the scenes but it makes sense. The only thing left from the Polin era for Leonsis's will be dealing with Arenas.

Posted by: boblas | February 15, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Ragtop and Glawrence- Since you brought politics into it. What vile junk do you hear from MSN, CNN, ABC, CBS, New York Times everyday. Thank god there is a choice out there besides Obelman, Matthews, Ed Shultz and Rachel Maddow. Scum of the earth, all of them. I would rather see someone cherry pick the facts than make them up or change them as they go along.
Back to the Wizards. These actions were not a choice by EG. Arenas blew this team apart. EG wanted to give this this team some playmaking and smart play by adding Miller and Foye to team with his three All Stars and a very servicable center in BH. Throw in McGhee, Young, Stevenson, McGuire, James and Blatche and you had some good bench players. Any team without a Kobe, Garnett, or LeBron would like to go into a season with those players. Now throw in a perennial 50 game winning coach and you have the makings for a very good team. GA destroyed the chemistry and the future with his antics and EG had to decide that this team could and would not recover. At this point no one in basketball has the answers to the problems. EG did put into place trades that built a potentially winning and exciting team. The real problem with all of sports is fully guaranteed contracts. Without them players would have to be responsible both in their play and in their actions. Jerry West, Larry Bird, Isaah Thomas, Larry Brown, Donnie Walsh and hundreds of other knowledgeable coaches and GM's GM's have had the same problems in getting and keeping teams at the top. Boston went years after the Bird era to get back to the top. EG is as experienced as any, so let him build another contender and maybe GA wont be here to destroy it.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | February 15, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | February 15, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

After Jamison, Blatche and Young have to go... Blatche has too many layups blocked and Nick Young can be hypnotized... enough said

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | February 15, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

to close the political aspect before it gets started, I agree with the earlier post (and also what you are saying here) that both sides have their forces that constantly make inappropriate arguments based on biased, incomplete, inaccurate, etc. use of the facts.

I'm going to ask that we close that right now, I shouldn't have brought it up. Only did so in frustration of how some arguments on Wizards moves take place in an alternative universe, when the writers otherwise have something valuable to contribute.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | February 15, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | February 15, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

78' haven't been around in awhile, funny I popped in today and I see my name come up.
I've got a few thoughts.

My best guess is Ted's calling the shot's already. The man's got the option on the team and is still negotiating a final price. Think the team would move assets without Ted approving?

Think Ted want's to hold onto the group that at best has advanced to the second round what seems like forever ago???

The Wiz are now engaged in the same process Ted luanched into after the whole Jamir Jagar thing blew up in his face. Tear it down and rebuild from the foundation up.

78' the use of the draft picks last year can be second guessed, I'd guess Grunfeld may end up falling on his sword before this is all over. But gee, it all seemed to make sense at the time, and the team looked so good in Dallas.

I sure didn't see this blowup coming. One point I'll have to make looking back, 4 years of Eddie's kind of letting the nuts run the asylum, and a year of Ed Tapscott's Divison II coaching from the mid 90's; this team wasn't ready for a strong willed NBA coach that knows what he wants and how he wants it done.

They imploded on themselves, it was a lockerroom that had run itself it's own way for so long that it couldn't adapt to a new coaching staff with some strong willed leadership.

Kind of like a chemistry project that just blows up because you added just a little bit to much of the wrong ingredient.

Big questions now, does Suanders stick for this build it from scratch gig?

Where does Jamison end up?

Can the Wiz extract anything when they dump Gil?

The guy can still really play, my quess is he ends up redeeming himself and becomes an Allstar again. Just not here, he poisoned this season and I see no way he survives here.

Ted and the Pollins may have to swallow millions to move him. The league will likely approve the Wiz sending along a record amount in cash for somebody to take on the contract. In the end I don't see Ernie surviving the loss that somebody's going to be eating on that contract.

Big question is, is there something to be salvaged from what's still here?
It's going to long year....
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | February 15, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Total rebuilding mode is now required from the ownership (hopefully Leonsis, et. al.) on down. It is time for the Wizards to totally start anew. Unlike the Redskins, who have been somewhat averse to telling us the truth about the intent for the franchise's future, the Capitals at least realistically stated the need to do a restart/rebuild.

Yeah, they stank for a few years but look at where they are now. Of course, a few things (lottery picks, free agent selections) have to bounce our way, but my suspicion has been for a long time (sorry, Abe, no offense I hope as you rest in Heaven) that something in how the Wizards operation has been lacking despite all of what we hear about Abe Pollin's loyal ways. Hopefully, we will hear more of the truth, once the Wizards transaction finally goes through.

Posted by: huoduengr | February 15, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

geo0386, you really should chill on bashing fellow Wizards fans. Us Bullets/Wizards fans have put up with terribly run franchise for decades. Before the Gil era, probably the best Bullet/Wizard we've had the last 30 years with any longevity is arguably Jeff Malone.

So, for any Bullet/Wizard fan to have put up with everything this organzation has thrown at them (draft busts, over-the-hill FA signings, lopsided young for old trades, etc etc), it shows were FAR MORE than just fairweather fans who will only support a winning team.

If that was the case, we'd all be Lakers, Cavs, Celtics fans by now.

Posted by: Dat2U | February 15, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

The only way to save this deal is to trade Jamison for Ilgauscus and Hickson!

Posted by: bobilly2 | February 15, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Draft picks is a good way to start over!

Posted by: blazerguy234 |

+1

Posted by: bossclifnpooh2 | February 15, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

WHO CARES?

Posted by: lylewimbledon | February 15, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

The NBA should just get rid of this team through contraction.

This team hasn't done anything since 1978. That's pitiful.

Posted by: DaleGribble | February 15, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Stop w/ the trade Jamison to a contender talk. The Wizards' main objective, theoretically, is to win. They don't owe any of their overpaid players a deal which gives them a crack at a trophy. A lot of great players in the history of sports played their careers on lousy teams w/o ever getting a sniff at a title: Ernie Banks, Marcel Dionne, Sonny Jurgensen, Dan Marino, OJ,Bob Love, etc etc

Posted by: randysbailin | February 15, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Ernie couldn't wait to get rid of Eddie Jordan because he wasn't his guy, however it has been all downhill since his departure. I'm not saying Jordan was a HOF coach but he got more out of those slackers than anyone else ever did.

Posted by: alphadog2 | February 16, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Bullets fan 78:

The late Abe Pollin won more NBA titles than Mark Cuban,Paul Allen and Senator Herb Kohl have combined.
Also, can you blame Ernie for Gilbert and Javaris mistakes? Not having Gilbert and Javaris is the reason we are not in playoff contention.

Posted by: jeremybozz | February 17, 2010 6:02 AM | Report abuse

Sonny Jurgensen won an NFL title with the 1960 Philadelphia Eagles.

Posted by: jeremybozz | February 17, 2010 6:04 AM | Report abuse

I still think Ernie did the right thing dealing away the pick that became Ricky Rubio for Miller and Foye.
Now, 3 to 5 years from now maybe Rubio will be playing in the NBA but who knows?
However, Ernie should have taken a chance on DeJuan Blair who could have even come at a cheaper price than Oberto.

Posted by: jeremybozz | February 17, 2010 6:07 AM | Report abuse

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