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Andray Blatche's confidence grows

Morning brew

Andray Blatche scored a season-high 36 points and Randy Foye hit two cluch shots last night as the Wizards defeated the Nets, 89-85 in New Jersey. Before the game, Michael Lee talked to oft-injured newcomer Shaun Livingston about how blessed he feels to playing basketball again. Here's Lee's postgame wrap-up.

Yesterday on his D.C. Sports Bog, Dan Steinberg blogged about a Gilbert Arenas moment for the Orioles' Luke Scott. Scott told the Baltimore Sun that he has brought guns to the clubhouse. Steinberg is still waiting for the national outrage.

At Hoops Addict, Rashad Mobley looks back at Shaun Livingston's awkward debut on Friday against the Knicks. And Truth About It's Kyle Weidie asks: What Has Andray Blatche Seen Before?

Mike Jones and Bullets Forever's Mike Prada also offer their takes on Blatche.

Around the League ...

The Cavaliers' Shaquille O'Neal will undergo surgery today to repair his injured right thumb and he is likely to miss the rest of the regular season. As Shaq tweeted this morning: "going into surgery today on my thumb, will be out for a min but when I return it is on, win da ring for da king! Luv my team, Cavs baby!"

Also, the Dallas Mavericks -- featuring the familiar faces of Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood -- won their seventh game in a row.

There were eight games last night. Here are the highlights, courtesy of NBA.com:

By Alexa Steele  |  March 1, 2010; 11:14 AM ET
 
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Next: Andray Blatche is on a ridiculous roll

Comments

Not trying to knock Dray, since he is really playing well, but I've seen this before where the best player on a horrible team looks really really good. Go back to the late 80's early 90's bullets and see the games that Harvey Grant and Ledell Eackles put up.

That said, it is funny that Mike Prada puts Blake Griffin ahead of Dray when Blake hasn't played a single minute in the NBA.

Dray - make me a solid believer. Post some great games in some wins against good teams this month. I am rooting for you.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Ledell Eckles was a regular whirling dervish of offensive incongruities....unstoppable!

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse


Thank goodness Grunfeld couldn't put together a coherent argument to convince Jordan to take Blatche off our hands in exchange for Augustin. Maybe the Wizards curse is wearing off after all and will be completely out of our systems when Grunfeld's axed by Leonsis.
The way some of you only see Jordan's supposed "dumbness" is beyond me. After Blatche's five years in the league, who should have had a better idea of what Blatche brought to the table--Grunfeld or Jordan? I rest my case.

Posted by: Firuz1 | March 1, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

seriously though, AB is getting his right in the teeth of all the teams we're playing. He's dropped it in the grill of Nene, Kmart, Lopez, Noah, Harrington, etc. That bodes well for his production moving forward, whether we win or lose games.

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

ESPN on the Dray Train!

"Blatche continued his post All-Star break rampage with a career-high 36 points in the Wizards' 89-85 win over the Nets Sunday.
Spin: Blatche also added 15 rebs, four assists, two steals and two blocks in 39 minutes of action. Over his last five games, Blatche is averaging a staggering 27.0 points, 11.6 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 1.8 blocks and 1.4 steals. We may very well be witnessing the birth of a fantasy (and real life) star."

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

if BTH was "invaluable," then why is our record significantly better without him?

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I would say because STEVENSON, BUTLER, and JAMISON aren't.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Sorry G, but the Haywood lovers can't have it both ways.

Last year, the haywood lovers said the reason we sucked so bad was that Haywood out.

This year, he comes back and we suck almost as badly, but it is Jamison, Dteve (who missed 2/3 of last season also) and Caron's (who missed over 25% of last season) fault.

We sucked because the team got stale and was willing to settle for losing. DSteve couln't hit anything anymore and Caron's numbers dropped significantly. Arenas became the joker and as for Jamison...well, see the first post in this thread.

haywood had 9 seasons to make a difference and he never did here. Maybe he will in Dallas, but remember that Dallas is a team that has won 8 more playoff series since Haywood has been in the NBA than Haywood (or the Wiz) has, so he is coming into a better team.

He is helping Dallas a lot, but he didn't do squat for us.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

mcgee plays D looking for the block, he moves with guys and allows them their look which he oft times erases. Hopefully what he's learning now is that fellow 7fters can get those shots off over him, so defense has to be keyed on positioning and not just letting opponents get to their sweet spots and trying to get the block.

Great to see how many shots he's altering just being on the floor though, he's causing plenty of misses that dont show up on the sheet

divi3--This is exactly right. I think he's been a litte surprised that Jefferson, Gasol and Lopes all got shots off against him. But with the increased minutes, I think he'll start to understand that. On the offensive end, now that Blatche is going to get quickly doubled, McGee needs to get to make himself available around the rim for Andray to throw up some lobs for him.

Posted by: jweber1 | March 1, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

I'll third that take.

Thanks to all who posted this a.m. on the previous M-LEE post. Some good gum bumpin' script rocked the house. Enjoyed the conversations one and all. No bickering and bs. Just straight up discourse on all things WIZARDS. I think the blog likes the new look WIZ. It energizes us and gives us hope for the future.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

As for Dray...I always thought of him more like a Jermain Oneal player than a KG.

Sixth year is the deal...that's when Jermaine started becoming a real force in the NBA.

Love to see it continue. Get the D and you are there, Dray!

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

blurred:

"Arenas became the joker...."

What I've read says he's always been that way.

"He [HAYWOOD] is helping Dallas a lot, but he didn't do squat for us."

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

That's fine blurred, but I do contend that JAMISON, ARENAS and BUTLER had more to do with it than anything else. I was one decrying HAYWOOD's injury, and last season was proof in the pudding IMO. And I'm sorry he had to go.

You are so right on one point though, the club was "stale" and needed breaking up. And WOOD went "stale" along with everyone else.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Yep...that's what we all heard about Arenas...I meant he took it to Batman level Joker, though.

Anyway, about haywood, I always thought he was soft and whiny, so I will probably always have chip on my shoulder about him.

Obviously, in Dallas, he is in the right element. Just remember what I said next year, when his big $$$ contract is done and see how he performs. that's when we will know for sure what he is made of.

I never said he couldn't be a top notch center, just that he wasn't.

Hope yer Spiders get a good seeding. I'll have to watch them, as my Rams are falling apart.

Sanders better stay for his Senior year, cuz his stock is dropping fast. he could be the DeJuan Blair of 2010!

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Yep...that's what we all heard about Arenas...I meant he took it to Batman level Joker, though.

LOL funny. Good 'un.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

blatche is just another reason a guy should go to college rather than the league out of high school... he is currently in his 5th season... if he went to college he would be a rookie this year w/ these skills and not have wasted 4 yrs waiting to develop!!! don't get me wrong, i like what blatche is going now but it took him 4 yrs to get it together...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | March 1, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

you can't stop Eackles...you can only hope to contain him...

Posted by: IZZY3 | March 1, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Hope yer Spiders get a good seeding. I'll have to watch them, as my Rams are falling apart.

Sanders better stay for his Senior year, cuz his stock is dropping fast. he could be the DeJuan Blair of 2010!

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

They surely got hosed in CINTAS yesterday. 29 FT's for the MUSKIES, six for the SPIDERS. Good thing the refs bailed them out to keep that home win streak going. Same crap as in WAKE and RHODE ISLAND when the RICHMOND'ers played there.

I know a couple of the players. They're looking forward to ATLANTIC CITY. Neutral court and all. I'll give you a full report upon my return.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

blatche is just another reason a guy should go to college rather than the league out of high school... he is currently in his 5th season... if he went to college he would be a rookie this year w/ these skills and not have wasted 4 yrs waiting to develop!!! don't get me wrong, i like what blatche is going now but it took him 4 yrs to get it together...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | March 1, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Except he made how many millions for himself instead of an old white guy coach and AD?

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

If AB went to college, we would never have had the chance to draft him.

And something tells me he doesnt lay awake at night wishing he wasnt a millionaire

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Except he made how many millions for himself instead of an old white guy coach and AD?

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 12:14 PM

Cant make Moms wait 4yrs on a new crib either! College is way overrated when you're 6'11" with skills

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Blurred, youre right. The whole 'best player on a good team' thing is a real phenomenon. Look at Juwan Howard.

The difference is that those guys were still doing 21-22 per game and weren't dominant. They looked solid but at times, AB has looked spectacular. Also, they has good fundamentals but AB has real natural ball skills that you could see and identify even before he got the minutes.

I think AB is for real. In fact, looking back I would compare him favorably with CWebb. He's a better shooter, equal passer, better ft shooter, not as physical. PPl who watched Webber remember that his defense was below average.

Give me AB at 23 over CWebb at the same age.

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Quote from Saunders re: AB...

"but what happens, as he keeps playing major minutes the first time, he's probably getting in the best shape he's ever been in."

Great. So you mean to say he could have been doing this before if you gave him minutes? I think so.

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Give me AB at 23 over CWebb at the same age.

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse


Hope you are right! And remember, Cwebb at 23 was just beginning to be a dumbazz. Hopefully Dray has all that behind him.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Blatche didn't suddenly wake up on Valentine's Day and decide to be a better player.

It's obvious the offseason work he put in wasn't cosmetic. His number change and eating habits (no more meat) have been well documented but dude really put in the work to become better.

All he needed was the minutes.

My 2010 top 5 Draft wish list:

John Wall
Evan Turner
Wesley Johnson
Greg Monroe
Derrick Favors

Either Turner or Johnson would work well with 7-day Dray don't you think?

Posted by: elfreako | March 1, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Blurred, I have to agree with glawrence007.

Subtracting CB, AJ and DS makes us better...probably because we have no stars hogging and are forced to share the ball.

I think that with BTH on this current team, we'd be possibly undefeated over the last 7 rather than 4-3. Our weakness has been interior defense.

Obviously, Ive always been a BTH fan. The wingspan (longest in the league with JM second) makes a big difference. If you've played ball, you know that guys with long arms are the hardest to score against. Plus guys like Singleton are playing good D and they wouldnt get any time with the BIG 2 still here..

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

The argument for Haywood has always been based on what he brings defensively.

No one is saying that Haywood is an elite center. And no one should sign him thinking that he is an elite talent. (e.g. someone like Howard or Shaq who bring it on both sides of the court; on the defensive end he clearly isn't a Ben Wallace type player either -- and never will be).

Defensively, Haywood is near-elite and on offense he's average.

In other words, if you pair a guy like him with a superior back-court, odds are you're going to win a lot of games.

As far as the contract goes, the reality is that there aren't many clearly better alternatives in the FA market. Whoever signs him is going to be taking on a risk (as is the case with any FA).

RE: AB, the real test is going to be when he starts seeing double-teams from good and average teams. It is pretty amazing though to think that he's only 23.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Blurred, IMHO, I think that BTH actually had 2 seasons to prove himself and he got hurt for one of them. He battled Etan as well as Jordan before that.

One problem I've always had with this team is that they refuse to let their big men grow into legit players. Granted, BTH has improved his game but if he'd been left alone to start 4 or 5 seasons ago, we'd have been seeing this 3 or 4 years ago. IMHO

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Cwebb at 23 was just beginning to be a dumbazz.

Uncle. lol

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I think the big difference with Blatche is he is stepping up like the older brother with younger siblings to raise, who just lost both parents. I don't think it has anything to do with playing on a bad team, like Grant/Eckles. Now whether his great play continues against the better team or better 4's and 5's, that don't matter either. What matter is does he bring it effort wise, not numbers.

Posted by: G-Man11 | March 1, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Big question is... Can Gil and AB coexist?

Next year should be really interesting. We're better off with a low post guy getting 20 shots than a pg.

Inside-out game could be among the best in the league.

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

It is pretty amazing though to think that he's only 23.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 12:42 PM

Exactly what I've been saying, and it leads to the conclusion that the single most important thing for the franchise is to play AB and JM together for big minutes the rest of this year and going forward.

JM's length and ups are astounding. Here's a kid who should be able to get 15pt/night virtually uncontested just going right over the top for ez buckets. But he doesnt even that skillset down yet. It's really on the organization to develop him seriously this offseason. And you know how you do it? Tell the kid you're committed to him as a force in the league! Dont just pat him on the butt and say "Have a nice summer." See to it he's in the weight room and developing a few simple go-to's all summer.

Because if JM develops in anywhere close to the fashion AB has, the future is outstanding for this team.

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm on the record as thinking BTH is second rate at best, and it's great that all 3 of them are gone so we as fans can put aside differences and go full bore with the guys we all agree are bustin loose!

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Mark - I totally agree with you regarding AB. Many time I scream to give AB some consistent PT but of course some genuises her readily shoot down the notion and tells everybody that AB hasn't EARNED the right to have additional PT....wherein AJ still logs in 40+ mins and 25+ shots per game. I guess AB didn't earned his improved play but he got it by default since there is no PF available.

Posted by: Dave381 | March 1, 2010 12:11 PM

It wasn't and isn't always a black and white case. It's been a little of both. We always knew he was talented and probably needed a more PT and more leeway in terms of making mistakes and learning about them when he was on floor.

On the other hand, he didn't really have a good work ethic - partying more than working out and lifting weights. Anyone could have seen whenever he used to play over a 15 minute stretch, he'd stop running cuz he was gassed and in no shape to contribute. His shape and body is starting to fill out as he's matured and worked harder on his game, not just in games.

It's easy to take sides and point fingers, but in reality most times, it's usually a combination of things. It was equally as much AB's fault as that of the coaching staffs' impatience and lack of recognition in letting him learn from his mistakes.

Posted by: TakinAWiz | March 1, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Big question is... Can Gil and AB coexist?

Next year should be really interesting. We're better off with a low post guy getting 20 shots than a pg.

Inside-out game could be among the best in the league.

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:55 PM

As much as I want to envision Gil improving the team drastically next season....it's hard to imagine him playing 2nd fiddle to anyone on this team, given his history as the Man here.

But I sure do see many missed alley-oops to JM that Gil would absolutely hit, and it's easy to think Gil's drive and dish to AB/JM would be a nightmare to defend

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Here's to hoping Andray continues his good play. I would love it if he and Javale decide to hit the weights hard and add that strenth factor to their games.

Posted by: millineumman | March 1, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Because if JM develops in anywhere close to the fashion AB has, the future is outstanding for this team.

Posted by: divi3
====================
And another thing about Javale is that none of his short comings are a lack of effort. He actually looks like he has been responding with the increased playing time. At the end of the Knicks game, everyone else including AB looked spent and no one could get a basket. Javale kept them in that game blocking shots left and right.

Posted by: millineumman | March 1, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Also, the Dallas Mavericks -- featuring the familiar faces of Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood -- won their seventh game in a row.

and Ernie couldn't get a draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 1, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Not trying to knock Dray, since he is really playing well, but I've seen this before where the best player on a horrible team looks really really good.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Blurred

Like AJ getting his 20 and 10 a night while leading his team to 19 wins last year?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 1, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

and Ernie couldn't get a draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 1, 2010 1:23 PM

do you and DC_Mann ever stop complaining? BTH and CB were stalwarts on a cellar dwelling team

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Regarding BTH, we probably disagree

e.g. depends what you mean by "second-rate" -- I'd stick with the "near elite defensively, average offensively" -- meaning "above average NBA center".

Second rate to my mind means back-up, or "starter on a bad NBA team". I wouldn't put Haywood in that category. At worst he's just an average starting NBA center, at best he could get some consideration next year as an All Star reserve.

Regarding McGee, we mostly agree.

The organization has responsibilities, and so does the player. The lion's share though rests on McGee.

IF he commits the time and energy to the game, then his full potential can be realized (in DC or elsewhere).

If he doesn't, he won't regardless of what this team does.

In terms of McGee's potential, his ceiling right now is much higher than Haywood's ever was (e.g. I can see how McGee could develop into an elite NBA center). On the flipside, potential talent is just potential. There's a reason that Mark Cuban dealt for Haywood this season and not McGee.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

But I sure do see many missed alley-oops to JM that Gil would absolutely hit, and it's easy to think Gil's drive and dish to AB/JM would be a nightmare to defend

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Man, I hope that wish becomes real.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

BTH is almost the worst offensive Center in the league, perhaps only ahead of Ben Wallace. There are 8 Cs ahead of him in scoring who are playing less than 30mins a night compared to his 33. Roy Hibbert scores more in 24mins a night. No Center scoring less than Haywood is within 10mins a night of his PT, except Ben Wallace.

Factor in the utter lack of ability to receive or deliver passes and you're left with playing 4vs5 every offensive possession. IMO, that's a massive liability that's only overcome if you're playing Dikembe style defense

I posted many times this season Haywood's 4th quarter stats and I wasnt making them up. He was producing literally nothing for us when it counted on a regular basis.

That said, I stopped following the moment he went to Dallas and maybe production has improved now that he's free of the mess he was in here

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

and Ernie couldn't get a draft pick?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 1, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I think that was ALL about the money in IRENE's pocket-book.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 1, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

....Jamison WHO???

Posted by: funkydancinmonk | March 1, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"Factor in the utter lack of ability to receive or deliver passes and you're left with playing 4vs5 every offensive possession. IMO, that's a massive liability that's only overcome if you're playing Dikembe style defense"

He is also #2 in the league in offensive rebounding among all players, not just centers. That's not something to gloss over.

Posted by: psps23 | March 1, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

Haywood is "almost the worst offensive center"?

Based on what metric?

He's top 5 in FG percentage. He's #1 in offensive rebounds.

He averages almost two times as many points as Wallace in roughly the same number of minutes. Compared to other centers he's slightly below average in points and FG percentage -- but not by a large measure. He's marginally below average in those categories, but he's definitely NOT "among the worst" by any reality based measure.

Keep in mind: There are 30 NBA teams.

In order for him to be "among the worst" you'd need a league with only 15 teams.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

how about this metric:

BTH is the only Center in the league who plays 30+ mins and isnt averaging greater than 10pts a night. In fact there isnt a single Center in the entire nba playing 25+ mins a night who isnt scoring more than Haywood...who plays 33/night. Offensive juggernaut Kendrick Perkins is scoring more in 28mins a night, for instance.

He's flat out abysmal on offense.

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"In fact there isnt a single Center in the entire nba playing 25+ mins a night who isnt scoring more than Haywood...who plays 33/night."

check that, 93yr old Ben Wallace is scoring less while playing more than 25mins a night. But that's it.

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Pretty unconvincing --

1. you're not looking at efficiency (conversion rates per attempts);

2. you're not looking at other categories that could lead to team scoring (e.g. offensive rebounds).

A guy who doesn't get the chance to touch the ball a whole lot on offense isn't going to score a lot of points (I'll grant that there's some cause/effect at work, but it still is what it is. Minutes aren't the only variable that matters).

The one area where Haywood was really "abysmal" was in assists to turnovers. In DC he averaged about 3 turnovers for every assist, which sucks. It's interesting to note that now that he's in Dallas he's averaging about 2 assists per game with only 1 turnover. For a center those are damn good numbers. His FG percentage has also gone up to 60 percent.

Compare his numbers to someone like Dampier too for some perspective.

Abysmal, no. Average, yes.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

average, abysmal, whatever...he added nothing to this team but locker room dissention.

If he was truly better than Etan (or Ruffin or Calvin booth or ...) all those years, it would have showed on the court. the fact is that Etan played better D than Haywood did and neither of them were very good offensively.

My deal is that up until a month agao, he was still weak and could not hold onto the ball. The reason that he never got assists is that no one would pass to him if he was outside of 5 ft from the rim. Even then, there was a 50/50 chance of the ball bouncing off his oven mitts and losing a possession.

Obviously some hyperbole there, but we weren't winning with him and he would only undermine the progression of whomever our center of the futuer will be (Javale?).

Glad he's gone and my bet is he is glad too.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure what's average about consistently being outscored by players at your own position who are averaging 8mins a night less floortime than you. And yes, I think there is a huge cause-effect going on with regards to # of attempts.

Here's another doozy for you, though less relative for the here and now:

In his first 2 season, BTH scored 14pts in under 30mins twice. Mcgee has already done that 13x so far!

BTH is bottom of the barrel offensively and when coupled with AJs pathetic defense you're looking at the real problem imho. Wholly 1 dimensional players as your frontline.

But all that's in the past one way or the other, the AB/JM era has begun!

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

A story that has nothing to do with the Wizards, the NBa, or basketball, but is pretty funny:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/28/combine/index.html?eref=sihp

I smell a nice rivalry cooking.


On Friday night, the Saints' staff at the combine gathered in a private room at St. Elmo Steakhouse, an 108-year-old Indy landmark, for a final celebratory nod to the Super Bowl win over the Colts. This is a group that likes its wine, and likes to have fun.

At the restaurant, word passed that Dallas owner Jerry Jones would have his Dallas group in this exact room Saturday night for a team dinner. Jones had even phoned ahead, according to a waiter, to make sure a magnum of a wine he loved, Caymus Special Selection cabernet sauvignon, was ready to be served at dinner.

Sean Payton told the waiter he'd like to have that wine, too. The waiter told him: Sorry, sir. We have only one bottle left, and it's reserved for Mr. Jones.

Payton said he'd like to have the bottle nonetheless. I assume there was much angst on the part of the wait staff at that point. My God! Who do we piss off? One of the most powerful owners in the NFL, or the coach who's the toast of the NFL, the coach who just won the Super Bowl?
Here came the bottle of Caymus Special Selection, and the Saints' party drained it.

But drinking Jones' wine wasn't enough. Payton gave the waiter some instructions, took out his pen ... and, well, the Cowboys party found at the middle of their table the next evening an empty magnum of Caymus Special Selection cabernet sauvignon, with these words hand-written on the fancy label:


WHO DAT!
World Champions XLIV
Sean Payton

That's the kind of thing Jones will get a big laugh out of. And remember.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Quote from Saunders re: AB...

"but what happens, as he keeps playing major minutes the first time, he's probably getting in the best shape he's ever been in."

Great. So you mean to say he could have been doing this before if you gave him minutes? I think so.

Posted by: original_mark | March 1, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I believe the proper response to Flip's quote is:

Great, it takes extended minutes 2/3 of the way into the season for this guy to get into shape? Hasn't he ever heard of offseason conditioning drills? I think not.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

Singleton is quicker, more athletic and a much better leaper than BTH, there is no denying of that. That is why I agree with what you said about Singleton gets rebounds that "should go" to opponents (based on his height that is). But it is wrong to think Singleton is a better player.

To your question about Wizards record prior to then trade, allow me to ask a counter question, why does Mavs gave up Singleton (and other players) for Haywood? We know while the main piece of the trade is Howard for Butler, Wiz insisted on giving Stevenson away, and Mavs insisted on getting Haywood along. Mark Cuban clearly indicated that Haywood is the main reason for the trade. Why couldn't Singleton do what Haywood has done for Mavs? From what I read from Dallas fans, they like Haywood very much and credited him as an important contributor to the Mavs current winning run (7 straight since Haywood started, longest for Mavs this season, including while Singleton played for him).

I do agree that Singleton is a keeper, and Wiz should resign him if price is right. For one thing, I will defiantly not going to pay him salary anywhere close to Haywood's (and Haywood was considered a good value relative to his salary).

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Not trying to knock Dray, since he is really playing well, but I've seen this before where the best player on a horrible team looks really really good.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Blurred

Like AJ getting his 20 and 10 a night while leading his team to 19 wins last year?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 1, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

has this team really been horrible since it became HIS team?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 1, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

original_mark,

I agree that McGee should make himself ready on offense when Blatche is double teamed. But that means he needs to be ready to go to the basket, and not thinking himself as MJ who can shoot anywhere anytime he touches the ball!

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"BTH is almost the worst offensive Center in the league, perhaps only ahead of Ben Wallace. There are 8 Cs ahead of him in scoring who are playing less than 30mins a night compared to his 33. Roy Hibbert scores more in 24mins a night. No Center scoring less than Haywood is within 10mins a night of his PT, except Ben Wallace.

Factor in the utter lack of ability to receive or deliver passes and you're left with playing 4vs5 every offensive possession. IMO, that's a massive liability that's only overcome if you're playing Dikembe style defense

I posted many times this season Haywood's 4th quarter stats and I wasnt making them up. He was producing literally nothing for us when it counted on a regular basis.

That said, I stopped following the moment he went to Dallas and maybe production has improved now that he's free of the mess he was in here

Posted by: divi3"

Have to agree with JPRS. Pretty unconvincing. JPRS stated he is average offensively and then you point out 8 centers scoring more than him in slightly less mins. First, there are 30 teams with each team carrying at least two centers. Those numbers alone suggest he is in fact "average" offensively or even slightly better than average. You undo your own argument. Second, on the Wiz he was an afterthought offensively with poor PG play at least in the assist department. In Dalls, he will and/or is already getting many more opportunities not bc he has more weapons around him but bc he has JK at PG. Have you watched the Mavs lately? He is getting great looks and getting the ball when and where he can be successful. And, on yesterdays telecast it was brought up repeatedly how he CAN catch the ball and finish unlike Dampier. So, he is in fact average offensively, above average defensively, and one of the better rebounders in the league. Why these facts make you hate on him so much is beyond me.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 1, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I believe the proper response to Flip's quote is:

Great, it takes extended minutes 2/3 of the way into the season for this guy to get into shape? Hasn't he ever heard of offseason conditioning drills? I think not.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Or maybe he was in shape at the beginning of the season and got out of shape due to lack of run during games but still trying to stay fresh for the next one.

Who knows. Let's just be happy he's improving.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

original_mark,

I agree that McGee should make himself ready on offense when Blatche is double teamed. But that means he needs to be ready to go to the basket, and not thinking himself as MJ who can shoot anywhere anytime he touches the ball!

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

_________________________________________

I think Saunders sees AB as another KG in terms of his potential & the way the offense can flow through him.

McGee should watch Marcus Camby & see how the offense doesn't flow through him but he finds his opportunities via defense, rebs, & put backs on offense... This could be his niche in the NBA.

Posted by: tony325 | March 1, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Why these facts make you hate on him so much is beyond me.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 1, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse


I know you were addressing Divi, but my problem with Haywood is not what he is doing with the Mavs, but the 8 wasted years he spent here. He was by no means the only or the biggest problem on this team, but he wasn't an answer either.

He has had 2 seasons you can look at as "good" seasons...both of which were contract years. Coincidence? I think not.

I don't hate him. I don't know him. never met him. Probably never will.

But he is a mediocre player having a stand out season at 30-31 years of age. His career speaks louder to me than his one top third season. We should be looking to the future and haywood adds nothing to that future here.

Mavs are dealing with the "right Now before Dirk can't play no more" Haywood is probably as good as they could want short of Howard at center, so it works out all around.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

NO WAY IN HELL IS ARENAS OR GRUNFELD BACK HERE NEXT SEASON. Take it to the bank

Posted by: BruinSteve | March 1, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

Etan v. Haywood was resolved three seasons ago.

This one isn't even close in 2009-2010.

divi3,

Bottom line -- two contenders in the West made a serious play for Haywood at the trading deadline.

Dwight Howard called him the 3rd best defender in the NBA; Kobe made a point of mentioning Haywood when the deal went through.

All around, this is a pretty silly argument.

Both of you are just haters. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"Or maybe he was in shape at the beginning of the season and got out of shape due to lack of run during games but still trying to stay fresh for the next one."

It was reported at the beginning of this season (and last one as well, as I recall) that Blatche drew the coach's ire by coming into camp out of condition; in fact it was pretty obvious how sluggish he looked at the beginning of the season. Conditioning (like his inconsistency) has been an ongoing problem for Blatche for as long as he's been here.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

"JPRS stated he is average offensively and then you point out 8 centers scoring more than him in slightly less mins. First, there are 30 teams with each team carrying at least two centers. Those numbers alone suggest he is in fact "average" offensively or even slightly better than average."

i think you misunderstand my point, and if you guys are saying he is average when compared to backups as well as starters you'll get no argument from me.

We could go round and round forever, or just be glad all 3 of them are gone and the team is undeniably playing better without them.

As far as I'm concerned none of them needs to be brought up much, but when people wax nostalgic over what might have been had we just kept BTH...i'm just trying to point out, dont worry about it he wasnt all that. Better times ahead!

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Both of you are just haters. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 4:21 PM

When a guy takes 7yrs to "ascend" to mediocrity, I dont think we miss much upon his departure. If you wanna call that hating, feel free.

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

kalo_rama,

You may be right -- my recollection though is that Saunders was talking about McGee, not Dray.

Regarding McGee:

"McGee's stint with Matrisciano was shorter than those of most clients, which might explain why Coach Flip Saunders still criticized McGee's conditioning and focus during training camp in Richmond; at one point he called McGee "overwhelmed.""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/10/AR2009101002281.html

RE: Blatche . . .

"while the Wizards are likely to add a veteran front-court player before training camp begins, the 6-foot-11 Blatche could be in line for an increased role. He has been working regularly with Saunders since the coach was hired, and decided to come to Las Vegas to continue that work.

"I think it shows a little bit that he has a newfound commitment as far as what he's trying to accomplish," Saunders said. "He's had a very, very good spring and summer. . . . I told him, the one thing that's preventing him from being a great player is just making sure he gets in phenomenal shape."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/15/AR2009071503446.html

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

Haywood has never been the top 5 paying players on this team (Big3, Etan/Mike Miller, AD/Mike James are all ahead of him), and I said he has contributed more than his share during his years here. I think you are pinning too much of team's failure on him.

Yeah, I admit I am one of those you called "Haywood lovers," and I have been following Mavs game since the trade. The other night, I chose to watch Mavs-Hawks game instead of Wiz-Knicks. While you guys bragged about a 4-4 split since the trade, I have been treated with a 7-0 run against opponents (6 of them with winning record), and I had gone on to Mavs board and shared their enthusiasm about "much improved defense."

Come playoff time, I will be watching Mavs game, while this board still discussing about "rebuilding."

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Right...you mean 3 years ago when Etan Started in front of him in the playoffs and both Etan and Songaila outperformed him in that series (and I believe he was suspended for fighting his own players rather than proving it on the court)? Or maybe you meant two years ago when he finally made the seperation from Etan while Etan was recoverring from Heart surgery and not on the roster?

Obviously, Haywood is better than Etan. The point is that he should have been better than Etan in his 2nd or 3rd season, not his 7th.

Haywood is having a great season. That's one great season in 9 years.

He adds nothing to this team's future.

That's all i am saying.

If he was playing like this and was, say, 25-26, then I'd be right with you to keep him around. Also, if he had played like this 5 years ago, we would have had a completely different trajectory and probably at least made the conference finals once.

But he isn't 25 and Javale is only 21 and has more upside. That is why I am glad Haywood is gone.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

"Or maybe he was in shape at the beginning of the season and got out of shape due to lack of run during games but still trying to stay fresh for the next one."

It was reported at the beginning of this season (and last one as well, as I recall) that Blatche drew the coach's ire by coming into camp out of condition; in fact it was pretty obvious how sluggish he looked at the beginning of the season. Conditioning (like his inconsistency) has been an ongoing problem for Blatche for as long as he's been here.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

fair enough.

I still say let's be happy he is improving and hopefully will take to heart what it takes to succeed.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Funny, what I don't hear in here is how great of a draft pick AB was as a SECOND round pick. Another EG gem. Sometimes development of players takes time and when it's your time as a player hopefully you have it in you and the talent to take off. So far, AB looks like it's finally his time. All the wrangling over whether young players should get more mins or be "developed" better is all hogwash. It happens when it's supposed to happen or it won't. Most of that falls on the player themselves to work hard and be focused enough to be the best they can be. AB has obviously done enough to get there. While I think he could probably do more to dedicate himself to the profession, I think he is light years ahead of say NY or JM, obviously. I honestly don't think NY will ever get there, but I hold out hope for JM.

By the way, the more JM plays the more I realize I've never seen a player play worse positioning on defense. He is ALWAYS out of position.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 1, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

rphilli -

If you peruse the postings over the past, say 6 months, you will see that I have repeatedly said that Dray is the best 49th pick in the past 30 years and probably ever.

I also said I wish he would become more consistent. He has and I am happy for it.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

So Kal, You do have a sense of humor!

Some things around here never change, still debating the relative merits of Caron, Jamison, Stevenson, & Haywood and they now play for different teams. Bottem line they couldn't put it together here for a coach that's got a long playoff resume, so they are gone!

If all Ernie got was cap releif, and a 6 pack of the New Coke, so be it. I know very 80's joke. I threw it in for Kal...

Some guys have to touch the ball or their games just go to crap. Three of the four guys we got rid of live in that territory. And then we had Arenas. Blatche was sqeezed out by that group and never touching the ball. And we thought he was all winey about wanting more touches.

This year Jamison and Butler were becoming bigger and bigger black holes, the ball got to them and the play stopped. Jamison took the first open shot before a guy could come off a screen, and Butler dribbled when he should have swung the ball.

Stop and think, how many times did Jamison throw an assist to Butler? And vice versa?

Ever think that Gil and Critt were just the seconds? Maybe it was Caron and Jamison were the ones that were planning the duel. There was something rotten that had developed in that lockerroom between the two stars that were left playing while Gil was out all that time.

Don't know any inside secrets to tell, but those two weren't singing from the same book. You could see it in the lack of on court chemistry.

Big question now is do the young guys mesh with Gil? They don't have a lot of choice, talentwise the team badly needs him. I'd quess Ernie almost has to get him on the court to get real value out of him. He's got to convince Gil there's a place here for him.

A month ago I'd say it would never happen, after the latest round of interviews, I'd say we could be up to a 50/50 chance Gil plays here again.

Interesting thing, once the other 4 guys were gone, Gil's jersey came back to his locker. Ernie's starting to pave the way. Once we get to April, if Gil's gotten heavy Community Service and no jail sentence, then the next step starts.

An inside/out game with Gil at the point and Blatche and McGee down low could be fun to watch. A pick and roll game with Gil and the two young ones, could be deadly.

Ernie adds a couple of more pcs. or retains Miller and Josh Howard and there are the makings of a competitive roster.

Gil is that good, and he needs to play, so why not here?
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | March 1, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

the best is how he ends up out of bounds after every blocked shot attempt. Or seems to think the shotclock is on 2secs everytime he touches the ball.

but there doesnt seem to be anything going on that isnt correctable, and the upside is phenomenal. Looong way to go, but hey we're rebuilding right?

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse
Hey i am not blaming Haywood for our failures. It was time to clean house and we did. I am happy about it.

I am only saying that Haywood adds nothing to our FUTURE. If haywood was here today, we night have one more win. Or we might have 2 more losses. We don't know.

What we do know is that over the 8 full seasons he was with us, he didn't put us over the top. he got paid like he deserved to get paid...a serviceable center that never played a complete season, fought with his teamates, had occasional great games and a lot where you had to pull him in the fourth quarter because you knew he couldn't hit a FT.

He seems to have none of that baggage in Dallas. But he did here and he packed those bags himself.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

Haywood "has been" better than Etan, maybe not by much sometimes, but there is not a single season when Etan was better. The season that you refer to (i.e., Etan started for the playoff) was 2006-2007, and even then Etan wasn't better, see:
http://www.nba.com/wizards/stats/2006/index.html

Regarding to being suspended for the fight, it was Etan who was suspended, not Haywood, just want to set the record straight here.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

Yeah I agree that the team is rebuilding, and I will give McGee a chance.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

If the guy was getting a max contract and under-performing I might understand the resentment.

If he was a lottery pick who badly under-performed, OK. (e.g. in theory he could be crowding out a more productive player).

So the guy was drafted late in the first round in 2001 and it took him 4 years to become a starter in the NBA (at which point he was paid a below average salary for above-average production) . . . and yet you hate the guy.

It's almost like you're looking for reasons "But it took him SEVEN YEARS to be average!"

Never mind that it's not average to make it in to the NBA in the first place; let alone last seven years; let alone to become a starter on a team that makes multiple trips to the playoffs.

Just crazy. Bottom line: You're a hater.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Never mind that it's not average to make it in to the NBA in the first place; let alone last seven years; let alone to become a starter on a team that makes multiple trips to the playoffs.

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

OK, but we all know we are talking average NBA center, not comparing him to High School players (where he was all american).

To Saga...you may be right about the suspension. I can't remember. just trying to figure out why Haywood had 34 minutes in that series to like 90 for Songaila and 85 for Etan. Heck, looking at the stats, Even Cal Booth out performed Haywood in half the minutes of that series (same ppg, double his rpg and 3x his apg).

Whatever. It doesn't matter now. He is gone. Some of you wish he was here and some of us are glad he isn't. Either way we are still a 21 win team.

I don't hate him. Just glad he is somewhere else.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

@Blurred,

What is all this crap about "should've been better sooner"? Bigs more than any other position very often take more time to develop. BH was no exception. But, he did develop and worked hard enough to make himself into a very good player. The Mavs for one are ecstatic to have him and have a fighting chance in the West now.

@divx,

Well if he is in the top 15 in scoring for STARTING centers which I am pretty sure he is, he is average offensively even for starters in the league. It's very simple below average would mean he would have to be 16 or worse. And, all this while playing most of the season with 3 former all-stars who average/averaged 20 pts a game. So, not many opportunities coming his way. This is not to say he would or will be prolific otherwise, but average or slightly better than average easily.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 1, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Etan started for the playoff) was 2006-2007, and even then Etan wasn't better, see:
http://www.nba.com/wizards/stats/2006/index.html

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

OK, Etan had almost 3x as many rpg and 15% more ppg.

They both sucked. And now they are both gone.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

lordy JPRS, i didnt realize people were so sensitive about Brendan. I apologize for posting stats about the guy and offering my personal opinions on his play.

"Never mind that it's not average to make it in to the NBA in the first place"

I didnt realize the bar was set at "stay in the league." Given it apparently is, I'll be the first to say I was dead wrong about the guy. He definitely plays in the nba, there's no denying that.

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nba.com/wizards/stats/2006/index.html
OK, Etan had almost 3x as many rpg and 15% more ppg.

Posted by: Blurred
-------------------------------------------

I know we are beating on this too long now, but just curous how did you do your caculation. (Or are you just saying it as a joke?)

Etan: 5.8 rpg, 6.1 ppg
Haywood: 6.2 rpg, 6.6 ppg

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

I am not saying he should have been better sooner. He is what he is.

But he got good too late for this team. And the right time for the Mavs.

I am sure they are ecstatic about his progress.

I would be too if it was 2005 or 2006 and we were making a strong playoff push. Then I'd love to have this Haywood.

But we are a 21 win team in need of complete overhaul.

Why do you all keep making about me hating Haywood. i am just saying that he adds nothing to this team's future just like Shaq wouldn't nor would Z. those guys were great, but even Shaq at 30 or Z at 30 wouldn't get this team past the 1st round

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

I remember when Dre was drafted -- 5 years ago -- one of the draft websites was calling him a "poor man's KG" (e.g. even a poor man's KG is gold in the second round).

Whoever made that call, is what I would either a genius, or really lucky. Unfortunately, I can't remember the source.

However, SI was pretty much spot on at the time of the draft too:

Sports Illustrated 2005:

"BIO: Could be a good selection for a team that can afford to wait and develop a player. Wiry and athletic, possesses great ball-handling skills for a man of his size. Can put the ball on the floor, face up and score. Averaged 27.5 points, 13.0 rebounds and six blocks per game in high school, but is not yet ready to bang the boards in the paint at the pro level. Touted as a defensive disruptor because of his length and ability to spring off the floor. Improvements must be made on his consistency, as he's been known to dominate one game and disappear the next, but the physical tools are there."

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"Well if he is in the top 15 in scoring for STARTING centers which I am pretty sure he is"

well rphilli, he's actually 20th while playing more minutes than 9 of the guys ahead of him. I'd say that's below average. He's also the ONLY center in the nba not scoring more than 10pts/night while logging over 30mins (and he plays 33).

but anyways, reading those stats just means I'm a hater!

Posted by: divi3 | March 1, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I know we are beating on this too long now, but just curous how did you do your caculation. (Or are you just saying it as a joke?)

Etan: 5.8 rpg, 6.1 ppg
Haywood: 6.2 rpg, 6.6 ppg

Posted by: sagaliba | March 1, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse


i was originally just talking about the playoffs.
Etan: 5ppg and 5.5 rpg
haywood: 4.3 ppg and 1.7rpg

I guess haywood ppg was better as a pp36 but Etan still beats him in rp36 in that series.

nonetheless, i think you are right about beating this.

I just want some folks to understand my argument is that we will be better in 2 seasons without Haywood and not try to say that Haywood has always been misunderstood or picked on or whatever.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Alright...I am leaving now.

but for the record, I believe that Haywood is making a significant positive impact in Dallas and may even be an improvement over Dampier.

But in all of his time here, I doubt we had a 7 game win streak no matter how much he played. So, he found his fit. That is good all around.

Let's win some more games and see our guys play hard.

I'm actually scheduling around Wizards games again after basically quitting watching them back in Dec unless I happened to have nothing to do. The games are interesting again and its nice to watch guys improve.

Posted by: Blurred | March 1, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"I think you are pinning too much of team's failure on him."

Posted by: sagaliba

At the same time, I don't think you can necessarily credit Haywood with being the difference in the Mavs 7 game win streak.

Posted by: ts35 | March 1, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

but anyways, reading those stats just means I'm a hater!"

///////////////////////////////////

In fairness, it doesn't necessarily mean you're a hater.

An alternative explanation is that you just aren't very good at analyzing statistics.

(e.g. you reduce his offensive skill to one category -- e.g. "points per minute"; you overlook other measures that can contribute to team scoring; and you ignore context, or "lurking variables" that factor into the points per minute measure).

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"lordy JPRS, i didnt realize people were so sensitive about Brendan."

You're kidding, right? What, are you new in town?

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

kal,

So you agree with the statement that "BTH is almost the worst offensive Center in the league, perhaps only ahead of Ben Wallace"?

Posted by: JPRS | March 1, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

I agree he's a lousy offensive player and have said so many times. I haven't taken the time to rank every C in the NBA and really don't plan to.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 1, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

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