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Wizards front line outplays Celtics but loses mental game

Celtics 86, Wizards 83

The Wizards young front line nearly had a coming out party on a national stage Sunday night, as Andray Blatche, Al Thornton, JaVale McGee dominated their Boston Celtics counterparts on both ends of the floor. The Wizards young trio combined to score 60 points on 22 for 40 shooting (55 percent), while Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Kendrick Perkins were 11 for 25 for just 37 points.

But in the end, the Wizards lacked the composure necessary to finish out the Celtics, even after building a 13-point lead with 6 minutes, 11 seconds remaining.

"It's horrible. It hurts," said McGee, who provided one of the Wizards' two field goals down the stretch as he caught an alley-oop lob from Randy Foye.

Garnett had one of the worst offensive games of his career, as he was held without a field goal for the first time in more than 14 years. His struggles started early in the game, when Garnett had a seemingly easy jump hook, but Blatche came from behind to send the shot into the first row. The Wizards had six blocked shots in the first half, with James Singleton blocking two and JaVale McGee recording three blocks while altering several other shots.

Garnett tried to shoot over McGee late in the second quarter, but McGee pinned the shot against the glass and knocked Garnett on his butt, setting up a fastbreak dunk for Thornton. About a minute later, Paul Pierce tried to drive inside on McGee, but McGee swatted the shot and screamed along the baseline as Thornton buried a 14-foot jumper on the other end.

"I thought their bigs had a huge impact in this game," Celtics Coach Doc Rivers said of the Wizards, singling out McGee specifically.

McGee had a season-high five blocked shots and appeared to freak out the Celtics, as he had them thinking twice whenever he was inside. Twice in the second half, Garnett tried to back down McGee but traveling while trying to establish position in the low block. McGee blocked Glen Davis's shot in the third period, but Davis recovered the ball only to have McGee intimidate him into shooting an airball and getting called for a travel after catching it.

"It felt good knowing that I was in there, they were adjusting their shots. I was trying to be effective on defense," McGee said. "Me and Dray wanted to make sure that all the shots that impacted the game wasn't coming from inside. We accomplished that."

After being held to just eight points and two rebounds in the past two losses to Milwaukee, Thornton complained about being worn down and playing more minutes than he had grown accustomed to playing before he was traded from the Los Angeles Clippers. Thornton was much more aggressive against the Celtics, as he attacked the basket and even stepped out to hit a three-pointer. He had surpassed his output against the Bucks in the first half, when he already had 15 points and eight rebounds.

Pierce's pride then started to kick in in the fourth quarter, as he repeated fronted Thornton to keep him from receiving the ball and held him to two points. "He played some pretty good defense a the end. They are a great defensive team. They did a good job," Thornton said. "But we wasn't poised down the stretch at all. We wasn't calm. We didn't get ourselves in our offense."

Blatche has heard comparisons to Garnett ever since he entered the league, but while he got the better of him statistically, Garnett wasn't going to let Blatche come away with the win. He started barking at Blatche in the fourth quarter and decided to fall into Garnett's game. James Singleton spoke with Blatche after the game, and they got a little heated as Blatche tried to explain how he wasn't going to back down to Garnett.

"I see myself as defending myself as a player. I'm a man, just like they a man. If a man is talking to me this close to my face," Blatche said, moving his hand toward his cheek, "I'm going to say something back."

By Michael Lee  |  March 8, 2010; 1:31 AM ET
 
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Next: Lacking the calming influence

Comments

Mike Lee's analysis of the Blatche/Garnett was spot-on. Garnett was looking to get into Blatche's head all game long. But, I think Flip was way off with the way he talked about it after the game. He needs to get over the man-crush he has for KG and be more supportive of the guys he STILL coaches. Especially, since alot of us are glad to see a guy that won't back down from a KG. (Although, we agree w/Singleton trying to explain to Blatche that he let KG bait and distract him.)

For Flip to say that Blatche got KG's intensity going by getting into it w/him was ridiculous. What had KG fired-up was getting worked at both ends of the court and watching his shots get chucked into the stands like they were part of a "Basketball Give Away Night." Not to mention going 0 for the game.

The list of things that Blatche ignored from KG, while just going about his business (before eventually reacting just like KG wanted), included:

-KG chest bumping him at halfcourt, talking some trash, and smacking the ball out of Blatche's hands after an offensive foul was called on Thornton.

-A childish attempt by KG at a staredown as the two were setting up for an inbounds.

-Getting pushed from behind a couple of times as the two players ran up court trailing the play.

-Countless times that KG tried to get in Blatche's ear before finally getting a reaction late.

Hopefully, this game can be used a teaching tool and oportunity for growth w/this young team. It surely should not become a situation where the coach blames the loss on Blatche's attempt to stand-up to one of the NBA's big dogs.

Posted by: SportzWiz | March 8, 2010 2:31 AM | Report abuse

Well, let's hope that AB is pissed off enough that the next time that he plays against KG that he'll step up his game and take it to the next level.

Posted by: cmecyclist | March 8, 2010 2:55 AM | Report abuse

For a while now, KG's bark has been bigger than his bite. Ab is the better player and it'd be nice if his own coach acknowledged that. A little bit of support and confidence from your coach goes a long way.

Posted by: original_mark | March 8, 2010 7:17 AM | Report abuse

Another thing...
we keep hearing about how poorly NY is playing and how list he seems but we are sticking with Mike Miller. For $10 mill, he sure is playing poorly. On a team that really needs offense, he's not earning his money and doing his part.
Personally, I'd rarther see a young guy with talent struggle than watch a vet who has peaked struggle. We know what Mike Miller will give us. If we let NY fight through, we might atually see him grow and develop some consistency.
Start NY, run some plays for him, get him 15 shots per game and leave him in there for 30 mpg. We have nothing to lose but some more games.
We could potentially go into next season with 3 young players with growing confidence. We already have 2.

Next year, MM should be gone. Foye, also unless we can get him cheap. Save our money since theres no FA we want. Durant ait coming here in 2011, either. They're winning too many games in OKC. If that was the plan, we need to scrap it.
Build around Gil, AB, JM and NY. That foursome is a good enough core to get into the playoffs with some complementary players...and we'd still have enough $$ to add a max guy down the road if we needed to.

Posted by: original_mark | March 8, 2010 7:24 AM | Report abuse

Ernie, try drafting a player when you have the 5th pick in the draft that's usually is more successful?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 7, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Let's see if that is true:
Dwayne Wade - Yes
Ray felton - Maybe
Devin harris - yes
Sheldon Williams - Maybe
Vince Carter, KG, Mith Richmond, Juwan Howard, Ray Allen, Charles barkly - Yes

LaSalle Thompson, Danny Vranes, James ray, Kenny Walker, LaSalle Thompson, Mike Miller, Sidney Green, jonathan Bender - Maybe

Seems it is about a 50-50 shot wiht a 5th pick as to whther they add immediate help...and that is what we were looking for last summer.

Here's an idea. Why don't you go on record as to what we shoudl do NOW, rather than talk with 20/20 hindsight about what we should have done.

And by the way...I was right about McGee taking Haywood's minutes by the last third of the season.

And I think we can all be happy that is starting to work out.

Posted by: Blurred | March 8, 2010 7:40 AM | Report abuse

I love seeing the way the front line is developing. Andray Blatche is starting to realize that he can dog certain people guarding him and is playing like it. He is getting more aggressive. Javale is doing what he does best and holding his ground a little better. He is a menace on defense. He should have been getting some PT to develop but we always have coaches in job saving/validating mode so they can't afford that kind of time. They need to show the boss "Look I got 44 wins"

Okay, now this;
We need a pg bad! Foye is doing a horrible job at it. I know he is playing out of position and is doing his best, so we will will have to sweat through the remainder of this year. Although he is looking like a back up at sg really. He doesn't do anything exceptionally great.

He has got to start advancing the ball toward the hoop and aggresively. He seems scared to. He is not putting any pressure on the defense. You see how B. Jennings and Rondo(and whomever else) start harrasing the guards in the backcourt. Thats whats been happing in 4th quarters if not all game but definatly in the 4th. AB dominated the game last night but when the pressure was turned up our pg is dribbling almost at the halfcourt line.

The perimeter defenders have to be a little afraid of being blown by for an easy hoop! You know, kinda like our guys!

Posted by: millineumman | March 8, 2010 7:49 AM | Report abuse

Until the fourth quarter meltdown, I was proud of the way our guys were playing. As with Milwaukee, we don't have a go-to offensive guy, so when the screws are tightened we struggle to get a shot off. Really miss Josh Howard.

Garnett is a fading warrior. I'm sick of his macho, intensity jive. The Celtics are going to get their butts kicked in the playoffs.

MM--what is his purpose on the court? He rebounds, that's it.

I agree with the observations about Flip. He talks down at his players, and addresses them like their particals under a microscope, versus HIS players. Why is it never his fault? At least Eddie Jordan would occasionally admit he got outcoached. Always blaming Foye is cowardly. We didn't need a steadying influence as much as we needed someone who could get their own shot off against a great defensive team.

Posted by: jweber1 | March 8, 2010 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Didn't watch the entire match but I like the way the young guys are playing. Sucks that once again, a Wizards player lost the mental battle on national TV (remember Arenas choking at the free throw line). But I would rather they get that experience now with nothing on the line.

The Celtics are done anyway. Their window is closed. I don't see them getting by the Magic or the Cavs.

Posted by: tundey | March 8, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Yo Mike. I did not hear Coach Saunders post game comments, but I was wondering if any of you guys in the media asked him why he had Foye in there at crunch time at the point. If you remember Rondo killed Foye the last time we played.

I have been liking everything Flip has being doing as far as sub calls until last night. Bokins or Livenston should have been running the point those last 5 mins.

As for Mike Miller, it looks like he has been going through the motions ever since the trade. He looks like a guy who does not want to be here. I was a big Mike Miller fan, but I am starting to wonder about him now.

I agree with Original Mark's comments. If Mike Miller does not want to play, give his minutes to NY.

Posted by: BulletsFever | March 8, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Andray Blatche played a man's game against KG. From my point of view, Garnett blinked. Kevin's the one who became animated with all the trash talking, pushing and agitating. Blatche showed incredible restraint by not punching KG in the face. For Flip Saunders to call out Andray after the game was ridiculous.

I'm calling out Coach Saunders for failing to adjust to the flow of the game in the 4th quarter. How in the world do you leave Randy Foye in the game when he was bringing nothing to the offense? Shaun Livingston could have provided some relief at the point. But the box score for Livingston reads "DNP Coach's Decision."

While I'm at it, how does Saunders justify giving Mike Miller 41 minutes? Miller took exactly seven shots. How can you be a "shooting" guard when you don't shoot?

Nick Young would have taken more than seven shots. Oh, I forgot, Nick missed his one shot attempt and was removed from the game.

Posted by: musicmanjr | March 8, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Nick Young is a bust.

Posted by: and_1 | March 8, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

nice to see Javale get credited with a strong performance against a big frontline, despite what kal and rphilli seem to think. The likes of Fat Davis, Perkins, and KG should have been able to shove the kid around as we've seen before, but he's improved a good deal in just 4-5 games. Let's hope it continues.

Yup, the Cs are done. Good riddance to them too.

I did not see Flip's comments about AB falling into KG's trap or whatever. Well you know what? Eff you Flip. AB is OUR GUY and he's supposed to be the leader of the team. I'd be pissed if he took all KG's bs pseudo-rage without barking back. Do you ever want AB to start getting calls? Well he wont until he's established himself, and part of that is mixing it up with the league's elite. Nice work Dray

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

So Blatche has to be a choirboy while the guy who Flip "nurtured" in Minnesota gets to invade Blatche's personal space and insult him?
If KG was getting in Antawn Jamison's grill like that and Jamison did nothing, he'd be considered a punk, plain a simple. Flip's post-game comments were meaningless and out of touch.

Posted by: and_1 | March 8, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Good game. Tough loss. Who's next?

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 8, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

The Celtics are done anyway. Their window is closed. I don't see them getting by the Magic or the Cavs.

Posted by: tundey | March 8, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Or the HAWKS for that matter.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 8, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Well, let's hope that AB is pissed off enough that the next time that he plays against KG that he'll step up his game and take it to the next level.

Posted by: cmecyclist | March 8, 2010 2:55 AM | Report abuse

When AB takes his game to the "next" level, he will be an all-star.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 8, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

The Celtics were very lucky to win. Check out the article [and comments] in today's Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/03/08/celtics_scuffle_but_tough_it_out/

Posted by: musicmanjr | March 8, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

8. Saunders Not Happy With Wiz

By John Hollinger

ESPN.com


BOSTON -- Wizards coach Flip Saunders has let his displeasure with his team be known on several occasions this year, but even by his recent standards this postgame press conference was a doozy. After Washington blew a 13-point lead in the final six minutes and lost to the Celtics 86-83 on Sunday night, Flip let fly, and one wonders if it signals a disconnect between Saunders and emerging forward Andray Blatche.


"We choked," he said. "Six minutes to go, we're up 13. We start talking at [Kevin] Garnett, we start talking trash and everything else, we got Garnett juiced up and we just pissed on our leg the last six minutes. Instead of letting a sleeping dog lie, we juiced up their energy."


The Wizards scored only four points in their final 13 offensive trips, and one of the baskets was a fortunate coincidence after a deflected Randy Foye pass ended up in JaVale McGee's mitts for a dunk. Boston noticeably dialed up its defense, as Rajon Rondo increased the ball pressure on Foye while Garnett and Paul Pierce denied entry passes to Blatche and Al Thornton, respectively. Those two combined for 47 points but had none in the final six minutes when the Wizards' offense fell apart.


Saunders was infuriated that his young charges couldn't keep their composure, and felt Blatche was particularly unwise in talking to Garnett -- who limited him to two missed shots and a turnover in the last six minutes.

"Randy had bad decisions, 'Dray had terrible decisions. 'Dray's woofing the whole time at Kevin Garnett. You can't do those things. He had 23 points with six minutes to go [but] he didn't piss a drop the last six minutes." (Except, one presumes, for the portion that went down his leg above).


Blatche disagreed with Saunders' opinion -- he felt Garnett was stepping over the line with his trash talk and was just defending himself. He's certainly not the first player to register displeasure with Garnett's on-court vocal antics.


"I was defending myself as player," said Blatche. "I'm a man just like he is. A man is talking to me this close to my face, I'm going to say something back. He has to respect me just like I respect him."


"I could feel his lips touching my cheek," he added, emphatically. "I wasn't bragging, I was just saying back up."


Regardless of his choice of metaphors, one assessment by Saunders rings true -- the Wizards lost their composure. On a night when neither Garnett (0-for-7, four turnovers) nor Nate Robinson (0-for-3, but weirdly selected for the in-arena postgame interview) made a basket, the game was there for the taking until Washington's offense melted down late. It was the most attempts without a made field goal by Garnett, with the previous high coming on Jan. 27, 1996, against New York (in his rookie season with Minnesota).

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Who would've thought that this game would even be watchable? Watching AB & JM make Garnet and Pierce look like old men was good stuff. And then celts big 3 put down the canes and respirators long enough to show our youngster how to play in the 4th - that was worth watching. If Sam Cassel would've come off the bench for that last 5 Min, we'd have had the best Father-Son YMCA game ever!

Posted by: cballer | March 8, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"As for Mike Miller, it looks like he has been going through the motions ever since the trade. He looks like a guy who does not want to be here. I was a big Mike Miller fan, but I am starting to wonder about him now."

What's there to wonder about? After years of playing out the string on lousy teams he gets traded to a team riding a wave of "this is our year" hype, a team the "experts" are predicting to be one of the big dogs of the East. He made it well known how much he was looking forward to finally being on a team that matters. Of course, it all turned out to be a mirage. The team stank, everybody got hurt, and the whole thing went to crap. All in near-record time.

Of course he doesn't want to be here. He's marking time until the end of the season until he gets his discharge papers from this asylum.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Randy Foye was terrible down the stretch - period. End of story.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 8, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Randy Foye was terrible down the stretch - period. End of story.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 8, 2010 9:34 AM

really was the difference in the game. The last 6mins that Flip went on about...Foye tried to score himself on virtually every possession. He was not even looking at teammates until his dribble was stalled out with 5secs left on the clock. Terrible

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

who cares what Mike Miller wants? He's paid $9mill to play well, not protect his inflated FG% so he can ride some other team's coattails to the postseason next year. He doesnt want to be here next year, and he's not good enough for us to want to keep....time to cut his PT and see what others can do

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Who would've thought that this game would even be watchable? Watching AB & JM make Garnet and Pierce look like old men was good stuff.

Well, I'm buying that part of your post cballer.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 8, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

No need to get too angry. They competed and young guys are developing more than they did under tapscott. This game wasn't a blowout in front of national tv and it was competitive up to the last six minutes. Those are the positives

Posted by: jefferu | March 8, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Hey, guys, there's a HAWKS regular handled "NorthClyde" who says the SG, PG combo of MARVIN "Duck" WILLIAMS and MIKE BIBBY is the worst starting combo of guards in the NBA. I offered him MIKE MILLER and RANDY FOYE straight up in a trade. Their salaries combined are off about 500 thou. What do you think?

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 8, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"who cares what Mike Miller wants?"

I certainly don't. I was simply making an observation.

Geez, relax man.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Boston is old, they knew their window of opportunity is small when they assembled their "big 3." Now that window is closing on them fast. They lost to NJ the other day, and their players complained about playing in regular season is boring, and they are just waiting to for the playoff. The question is, can they even go deep in the playoff? Both Boston and Spurs are fading.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 8, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Saunders' post game analysis missed the point. Wizards lost the game when Boston started pressing on the ball. In fact, that is how Wizards lost to Milwaukee twice. Every coach in this league can see that when opponent pressing the ball, Wizards simply do not have an answer.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 8, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I just read Flip's comments. Why would he say that about his players? Especially when you already have team mates conveying those sentiments. So far, I am not thrilled with Flip. I know he's a good coach (at least based on his track record) but I can see how he can quickly lose his players. It's good to tell it like it is, but sometimes you have to bit your tongue and support your players.

Posted by: tundey | March 8, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Poor Andray. Had a solid game last night at both ends of the court and limit KG to 0 field goals but is being attacked by the coach (and some genuises here) for losing his "composure". What can AB do to earn some respect?

Posted by: Dave381 | March 8, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Saunders' post game analysis missed the point. Wizards lost the game when Boston started pressing on the ball. In fact, that is how Wizards lost to Milwaukee twice. Every coach in this league can see that when opponent pressing the ball, Wizards simply do not have an answer.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 8, 2010 10:07 AM

True words.
I expect we'll see this in every game from here on out. Especially if it's close in the 4th. We're sorely missing a good ball handler.

All in all a unexpectedly good game. I expected to see the Wizzies down by 20 at half and a lot of garbage time for the bench warmers.

Posted by: VBFan | March 8, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Can Nick Young play at this level?
How will we ever know?
Play the guy some serious minutes and let's find out.
What do we got to lose?
If he flops then we'll know.
Learn from the past. Don't repeat Eddie Taps mistakes. If he'd a played the bench last year we'd know what we got.
Put him in coach.
Look what happened to Andray.

Posted by: VBFan | March 8, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

KEVIN ANDERSON - A10 PLAYER OF THE YEAR. GO SPIDERS.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 8, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

What's the deal with Livingston?

We've had quite enough time to look at the Foye/Boykins PG combination. What about 50 some odd games?

I think we got it.

Foye looks to get a pick take a dribble and jack a shot, or dribble around until the clock is down to 5 secs before throwing the ball to someone that's not open.

Boykins is a 5'5" SG who penetrates in order to get his own shot off. Or just starts dribbling the ball with "no particular place to go"..

If that's the best we got,OK, but Livingston was signed. Does he have anything left or not?

Posted by: bozomoeman | March 8, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Blatch cares...that's the next step of his ladder to success. KG lost his cool, not the other way around. it just happens that the refs(wood) defer to the reigning superstar more times than not.

Posted by: joerutgens72 | March 8, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Another thing...
we keep hearing about how poorly NY is playing and how list he seems but we are sticking with Mike Miller. For $10 mill, he sure is playing poorly. On a team that really needs offense, he's not earning his money and doing his part.
Personally, I'd rarther see a young guy with talent struggle than watch a vet who has peaked struggle. We know what Mike Miller will give us. If we let NY fight through, we might atually see him grow and develop some consistency.
Start NY, run some plays for him, get him 15 shots per game and leave him in there for 30 mpg. We have nothing to lose but some more games.
We could potentially go into next season with 3 young players with growing confidence. We already have 2.

Next year, MM should be gone. Foye, also unless we can get him cheap. Save our money since theres no FA we want. Durant ait coming here in 2011, either. They're winning too many games in OKC. If that was the plan, we need to scrap it.
Build around Gil, AB, JM and NY. That foursome is a good enough core to get into the playoffs with some complementary players...and we'd still have enough $$ to add a max guy down the road if we needed to.

Posted by: original_mark | March 8, 2010 7:24 AM | Report abuse

Hush (In Tha Little Richard Voice)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Quote from Garnett to NBA.com's
Couper Moorhead

"This is not the same Washington team you've seen of old," Garnett said. "They really play hard for 48 minutes."

Posted by: bozomoeman | March 8, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

flip and MM made a deal after the deadline to get him as much exposure as he can so that MM can get outta here this offseason. i get the same feeling that i get from some of you posters here, who believe MM is too good to endure this process and needs to move on. Flip's just trying to help his boy boost his FA value.NY is under contract for next year, maybe Flip will run the Rip plays then.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

@lilhollywood10

that may very well be the case. problem for MM is, people are seeing him play.

Posted by: joerutgens72 | March 8, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Flip-Flop saw Foye, in particular, throw up all over himself in the fourth quarter and did nothing. It's amazing how Flip has never called himself out this year for blowing games with his poor decisions, but he's still beating on Blatche like a rented mule.

Posted by: and_1 | March 8, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

What's it like to realize that you're a better player than the player you grew up idolizing? By the way, Rondo has been the best player on the Celtics for the last two years.

Posted by: audacitea | March 8, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

My question over the remaining games: Is Thornton a player we can rely on as our starting 3 or not?

Obviously he can score in bunches and it's great that he seems to prefer going to the hoop over taking a long J. But daaaaaaamn, dude is bringing new meaning to the term "black hole." I'm not sure about all this "i'm so sore" stuff either, take some creatine dude.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

in foye's defense, he does exert plenty of effort on D and he had several steals and disruptions off of lazy Cs passes.

But that screams backup and "welcome back Gil" on the balance

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Quote from Garnett to NBA.com's
Couper Moorhead

"This is not the same Washington team you've seen of old," Garnett said. "They really play hard for 48 minutes."

Posted by: bozomoeman | March 8, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

glad to hear the great KG giving the guys a lil respect, i guess NOW Filp can say something nice about how AB and JM have been "holding it down" while his boys (Foye and Miller) sleepwalk.

Another thing
The coach doesn't play the game, but he can control the flow of the game, and the intensity/emotion of his players. call a TO. If KG was so revved up with his 0-fer Flip shoulda sat AB. But that wasn't the issue. Yet another late game collapse by the wiz. another game where the wiz can't execut3e down the stretch. Isn't Flip the same guy who doesn't run plays for people?Maybe he should spend some time thinking about what he can do to COACH his team to a win vs insulting his own guys. NEWSFLASH Ray allen just said on ESPN DOC drew up the play earlier, we were looking to get me that shot. The wiz respond with a Al thornton desparation 3. I don't know if we had any TOs left but I'da loved to see the leagues #1 3 pt shooter chuck one .

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

if Livingston is in here to get some looks, not sure what better situation to see what he's got than last night. Foye probably would have been more comfortable playing 2 down the stretch anyway

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

One reason it could be detrimental to bring Gil back is he'd be counter-productive to the development of AB, McGee, and Thornton.

I hope these three remain together for next season, although I don't think any of them are free agents this summer, so it seems obvious they'll all be back.

But a big part of Blatche's success comes from getting the ball and getting shots, which Gilbert would eat away at. The Blatche of late is a more efficient scorer than Gil in terms of FG%.

While it's painfully clear the Wiz need backcourt scoring, I'd prefer Blatche to lead the new team over Gil, whose immarturity would be unhealthy for a young squad. I'd prefer a guard with potential to improve Blatche's(and Thornton's) game, so I say draft a PG, and trade Gil, maybe with Miller or Foye, and get what you can.

Plus the memory of him dumping in AB's shoe probably damaged their mutual chemistry beyond repair.

Posted by: bigtriumverate | March 8, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if we had any TOs left but I'da loved to see the leagues #1 3 pt shooter chuck one .

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 11:28 AM

Pretty sure we were out of TOs but your point is spot-on nonetheless, it doesnt seem like any plays are drawn up at all. So the burden of offense falls entirely on the PG to create one way or another. Flip needs a player like Billups, whereas Billups sure doesnt need him.

Coach'em up Flip!

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

@lilhollywood10

that may very well be the case. problem for MM is, people are seeing him play.

Posted by: joerutgens72 | March 8, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

that was the followup post. good stuff Joe

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Everyone knows that Garnett is a jerk. I give Blatche a ton of credit for ignoring Garnett's attempts at an altercation throughout the game. Since many of us saw the crap that Garnett was trying to pull during the game, how come the officials didn't see it...or did they? Garnett's attempts at bullying are just the type of behavior that results in someone getting injured. He should have been "T'd" up more than once during the game.

This was a great game by McGee, Thornton and Blatche. They really asserted themselves and would have won the game if not for Flop's inept coaching (Miller's feeble attempts to guard Ray Allen in crunch time comes to mind). Whose decision was that? Blatche's? Come on Flop. The kids played great. You stunk!

Posted by: getabigboyoffense | March 8, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

I'd prefer a guard with potential to improve Blatche's(and Thornton's) game, so I say draft a PG, and trade Gil, maybe with Miller or Foye, and get what you can.

Plus the memory of him dumping in AB's shoe probably damaged their mutual chemistry beyond repair.

Posted by: bigtriumverate | March 8, 2010 11:32 AM

The only problem with that scenario is that chances are Gil is untradeable at least until he shows he can still ball. And even then (if he can still play), his contract is so huge it may be another year before anybody will take it.

On the brighter side, I doubt the crapshoe incident is still bothering Dray. He was a 19yr old rookie and apparently Gil is communicating with him after every game now so they're in good standing

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

it was so sweet to see Mcgee stick KG right at the rim, sending him to the floor. So sick of KG's fake anger, Perkins scowling, Fatty's whining faces....BUT, they beat us again. Guess we have to wait until next year when they're in wheelchairs before this group can take them

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Actually, Blatche and Gil have and has had a great relationship with one another. Also, I am not to sure that the story of dumping in his shoe is true. Blatche, Young or McGuire has NEVER mentioned this and they have told plenty of tales of the pranks played by Gil. Anyway.....Blatche has said on numerous occasions that he and Gil text one another after the games and that Gil give him pointers and and is one of his biggest cheerleaders. All of that to say........One, Flip really needs to be careful how he treats Blatche because you don't want to mess his head up mentally. It is okay sometimes to get on a player and push him but last night was not one of those times. And Secondly, if Gil comes back, rest assured,he will be ready to play and all of that foolishness I believe, he will will leave it behind. I am from the school of forgiveness and second chances.

Posted by: ivyleague | March 8, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

"My question over the remaining games: Is Thornton a player we can rely on as our starting 3 or not?"

So far he doesn't look like it. More like a dangerous off-the-bench scorer. Maybe it's just conditioning, but he doesn't look ready for starter's minutes.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

About last night's game: I didn't see the second half, but looks from the box like shooting better than 9% (1 for 11) from the arc would have made a difference.

Boston is just not the defensive club they were two years ago. Even Rondo, and he's a very good defensive player.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

"It is okay sometimes to get on a player and push him but last night was not one of those times"

Maybe it was.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

yeah, I have seen nothing to indicate AB hates Gil and as Divi said, I also saw where Dray said Gil text him after all the games.

Posted by: millineumman | March 8, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I kindly disagree. Blatche played a great game last night and did not deserve the public tongue lashing he recieved. If anyone should have been publicly flayed it should have been Mike "no shooting,nimble fingers Miller and Randy Foye. A person can only take so much and Garnette had pushed and prodded Blatche all game with no help from the referees so, hey, he lost it. Crap happens to the best of em. Blatche and McGee were balling last night, so don't blame the loss on them. Once again, during a cruial period, Mike Miller lost the ball and there went said game.

Posted by: ivyleague | March 8, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

"Flip-Flop saw Foye, in particular, throw up all over himself in the fourth quarter and did nothing. It's amazing how Flip has never called himself out this year for blowing games with his poor decisions, but he's still beating on Blatche like a rented mule."

Posted by: and_1

And what options are there? Obviously, the scouting report says press Foye and Boykins bc they both can't handle it. Foye is obviously playing too formulaic to try and please Flip. If he tells him to pass he never shoots and if he tells him to shoot he never passes all the while trying to run a play to perfection without instinct and adjustments bc he does not possess the proverbial "true" PG mentality. At least GA would attack attack attack when being dogged like that and usually something good happens.

And, like I said last night, the goal would be to get AB and Thornton the ball, but with limited options those guys aren't exactly wide open. Boston just turned the screws on a bad team and won. Although, I think Flip is way off base on the AB criticism. Obviously, he is on the court and probably knows more, but it looked to me like AB handled that situation about as good as you possibly could.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Quote from Garnett to NBA.com's
Couper Moorhead

"This is not the same Washington team you've seen of old," Garnett said. "They really play hard for 48 minutes."

Posted by: bozomoeman

Ray Allen was also complimentary of the Wiz after the game.

I was pleasantly surprised by the Wiz's energy and competitiveness - especially after the Bucks/Wiz debacle(s).

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 8, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

it's not like AB got a technical, or KG went off after they jawed. Not sure what Flip was so weird about, and you gotta love ABs comments afterward where he openly disgareed with Flip's sentiments.

garnet ALWAYS tries to dog guys he considers lesser or soft, i would say it's critical that AB told him to back off

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"A person can only take so much and Garnette had pushed and prodded Blatche all game with no help from the referees so, hey, he lost it. Crap happens to the best of em. Blatche and McGee were balling last night, so don't blame the loss on them"

Nobody's blaming them. But you needn't make excuses for Blatche, either. Garnett played the oldest game in the book, and Andray should expect it.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Washington has to make a critical decision this summer.The combination of flip and arenas is going to be an other 25 win season who ever is going to included in from lotery.AB has to stay hard on his progress despite the bad comment of his coach who does not seem to understand what is going on in the court.

Posted by: gtefferra | March 8, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Guys please lay off of Mike Miller, as other posters have said, MM did not sign up for this. He heard all that this is our year talk from management AJ and CB and thought he'd be able to coast his way through the season. He couldn't have imagined he'd actually have to earn his keep. MM brought hustle, intensity, and unselfish play to the team when it lacked those qualities. Since the trade the team has played with all of those qualities to a degree that render MM's contributions no longer a pleasant surprise, but the norm.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I got it - Livingston. He's played about a games worth of mins the entire season, but he could have saved that game last night for us - lmao.

@divi3,

Your fawning over JM is getting ridiculous. Had BH played under these circumstances he would have likely had about as many points if not more, a few blocks, and 10/12 rebounds. JM had ONE rebound in 30 mins last night so let's not go overboard on your development scale. And this team is in dire need of rebounding. He's got a long way to go just to be as good as BH. The guy you despise for whatever reason. Oh, bc it took him a long time to develop as it will for JM. He's probably still 2/3 years away from being a legit starting center in this league if not more, but he might get mins he doesn't deserve bc there are no other options at the moment.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I got it - Livingston. He's played about a games worth of mins the entire season, but he could have saved that game last night for us - lmao.

@divi3,

Your fawning over JM is getting ridiculous. Had BH played under these circumstances he would have likely had about as many points if not more, a few blocks, and 10/12 rebounds. JM had ONE rebound in 30 mins last night so let's not go overboard on your development scale. And this team is in dire need of rebounding. He's got a long way to go just to be as good as BH. The guy you despise for whatever reason. Oh, bc it took him a long time to develop as it will for JM. He's probably still 2/3 years away from being a legit starting center in this league if not more, but he might get mins he doesn't deserve bc there are no other options at the moment.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I don't see where Dray wilted. He killed Boston last night. The game went bad for us when Boston (as others have and will) harassed our backcourt and kept the pg from doing ANYTHING with the ball.

I can understand a coach being hard on his guys to push them, but Dray is actually starting to respond. He's going hard. He stood up for himself, didn't get a tech, and was dribbling past and shooting over Boston. I just think a lot of folks on the board here think its time to get behind the guys who are giving effort.

Posted by: millineumman | March 8, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

MM brought hustle, intensity, and unselfish play to the team when it lacked those qualities. Since the trade the team has played with all of those qualities to a degree that render MM's contributions no longer a pleasant surprise, but the norm.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 12:07 PM


Well put.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Foye & Miller last night:
6 for 21 combined
0 for 7 from 3-point range

So who exactly pissed on their leg Flip? Don't blame the Blatche & McGee for this one.

It's time to put Miller on the bench and let NY get a sniff.

M&M is averaging 7.2 ppg in his last 9 games with only 9 FT attempts in almost 300 minutes.

Are you kidding me? Is this guy allergic to taking it to the rim now?

Fuggidaboudit!

Posted by: elfreako | March 8, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

McGee had more FT attempts last night than Miller has had since 2/19.

SOFT.

Posted by: elfreako | March 8, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

"I got it - Livingston. He's played about a games worth of mins the entire season, but he could have saved that game last night for us - lmao.

@divi3

Your fawning over JM is getting ridiculous."

----

1)i dont care if we win or lose these, it's about developing players and seeing what they've got. That's why I said why not play Livingston (and NY)

2)I dont author this blog, and you'll note the title reads: "Wizards frontline outplays Celtics...." Mcgee played well last night, I'm not fawning, that's the consensus from people who actually watched the game.

btw, last time we played the Cs it was a tight game and BTH got chumped by Perkins and Fatty Davis in the 4thQ. So I'm not sure where you think our former C would have been the difference in the game. And really who cares if he would have been, he's gone and would have been gone at end of season anyway

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

He's probably still 2/3 years away from being a legit starting center in this league if not more, but he might get mins he doesn't deserve bc there are no other options at the moment.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:11 PM

No question Brendan is the better player right now. However, you could argue that BTH got minutes he didn't deserve when our only other option was Etan, a 6'-8" backup center or Peter Ramos. I'll take JaVale right now over where Brendan was his second year in the league.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

SportzWiz, I agree with you 100% re. Blatche and Saunders. I hope SAUNDERS uses that as an opportunity to grow as a COACH. He needs to tell Blatche how to beat players like Garnett and get over his man-crush on Garnett. He is Blatche's coach, and if he does not do EVERYTHING to help him succeed, he (Saunders) loses even worse.

Posted by: rickgonz | March 8, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Flip was definitely wrong but at least he has been consistent in throwing the young guys under the bus.

His coaching this year has been suspect at best as evidence by how bad we were prior to the implosion.

Frankly, in a way, he is lucky that things happened the way they did or we would be on here discussing one of the most disappointing teams in recent NBA history.
He received a reprieve and hope he is learning from his mistakes.

Posted by: g-money | March 8, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I can understand a coach being hard on his guys to push them, but Dray is actually starting to respond. He's going hard. He stood up for himself, didn't get a tech, and was dribbling past and shooting over Boston. I just think a lot of folks on the board here think its time to get behind the guys who are giving effort.

Posted by: millineumman | March 8, 2010 12:11 PM

Flip is a joke and his post-game comments were the punchline. He stinks out loud. As one of you asked earlier, would Flip have blasted Jamison for responding similarly to Blatche? The answer is clearly no he would not.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Very disappointed when I heard Flip's comments about AB. Instead of stressing how he actually outplayed KG, Flip called him out. KG is a dirty player and now relies on getting under another player's skin as much as his talent. With all of the pushes in the back while coming up court, knocking the ball out of AB's hands after an offensive foul call, and taunting him throughout the night, it was a farce that the refs didn't give him a technical. A good coach gets the refs attention so that that type of cheap stuff stops.

Flip also didn't look like he stands up for his players during the game which contributes to the refs letting things go. The Wiz frontline was clearly better than Boston's the entire night, but our lack of a PG who could get us into our offensive in the last 5 minutes was a killer. Even though Boykins is a defensive liablity, he would have at least got the team into their offense instead of dribbling around midcourt like Foye. Foye looked intimidated by Rondo who killed us down the stretch.

If Flip is still the coach for this team next year, he needs to start supporting the young players like AB, McGee, and NY to build their conference. Tonight's press conference showed very poor judgment on his part.

Posted by: wizfan89 | March 8, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Finally got to see the young guys play.

It's nice to see the Wizards have a front line AT, AB, and JM to start the rebuilding process with.

Blurred,

It looks like Ernie's trade for MM and Foye really sucks now! Could you imagine the Wizards front line with a guy like Jennings or Lawson running the point?

I said that last year when he made the trade so it's not hndsight.

The Wizards need to let MM and Foye walk and keep the good draft pick they will get in this years draft and draft the best point guard on the board.

It will be eaiser to find a free agent 2 guard who has some experience and lets not sell any picks and start the rebuilding process through the draft.

Look at the Bucks they hired a assistant GM from the Spurs and they are on the right track so I say fire Ernie and take a chance on a good young GM.

Last thing the Wizards can't let Gil back on the court with these guys.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 8, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"2)I dont author this blog, and you'll note the title reads: "Wizards frontline outplays Celtics...." Mcgee played well last night, I'm not fawning, that's the consensus from people who actually watched the game."

You're right the consensus was our FRONTLINE outplayed the Celtics. Of course, that includes the two best players on the team at the moment in AT and AB least we forget. Players who actually held their own on the boards and were our two leading scorers.

I never said BH would have made a difference much like JM didn't. Again, pointing out your hypocrisies.

@artie,

As far as the comparison between BH and JM at this point in their careers, I like the upside of JM as well. The thing that scares me is his total lack of basketball intelligence or fundamentals especially considering his pedigree. Does he have the capacity to really ever get it??? Will he be able to figure out a good shot from a circus attempt??? Will he be able to read plays and be in the right position most of the time??? Will he learn not to try and block every shot and that rebounds are important too??? I don't know. I hope so. But, he is the exact same player this year he was last year.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it's hard to get too concerned about another loss when the team played hard and got some valuable experience against a good (if declining) club. Worst thing that could happen would be to play ourselves out of the lottery. Not much danger of that, however.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"Could you imagine the Wizards front line with a guy like Jennings or Lawson running the point?"

Sure, but I doubt the team's record would be much different. Nor should we hope it is. This is one of those times where the club needs to lose.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

"So far he doesn't look like it. More like a dangerous off-the-bench scorer. Maybe it's just conditioning, but he doesn't look ready for starter's minutes."

I believe Buckhantz quoted Flip during a recent game (not sure if it was yesterday's or not) that Thornton's body was constantly sore because he's not used to playing these kinds of minutes. If that's the only problem, then time should take care of that. In terms of skill, I don't see any reason why he couldn't hold down the starting job. He's a multifaceted scorer who brings more to the defensive end than his previous billing would have suggested. Would he be a preferred choice as a starter on a solid playoff caliber team? Maybe not. But the Wizards aren't a solid playoff caliber team and aren't likely to be any time soon.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

But, he is the exact same player this year he was last year.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:32 PM

guess that's where we differ, i see noticeable improvement even over the past 5 games or so- specifically with defensive positioning. The Cs shot 41% last night and that had nothing do with Al Thornton's play.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

"Even though Boykins is a defensive liablity, he would have at least got the team into their offense instead of dribbling around midcourt like Foye. Foye looked intimidated by Rondo who killed us down the stretch."

You're kidding me right. Did you see Boykins earlier in the game or the previous game against Boston. He was absolutely putrid. Boykins handles the press no differently than Foye does. Think that is in the scouting reports now as every team is pressing us at some point during the game and always in the fourth??? Yep. It is what it is. We are undermanned and that is a weakness no matter who is in the game. I assume that is why Livingston was picked up, but he is as rusty as they come and doesn't look to be in great shape either. Since we are raiding the D league, why not grab whomever is considered the best PG in the league and sign him to a 10 day contract or two. Hell, can't hurt.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

1. The refs let KG get away with hanging all over Blatche in the last six minutes. I guess they wanted to spare the superstar, though. I agree with Flip, though. When KG starts talking trash, that's actually a sign that you're getting to him. Best left ignored.

2. Keep JaVale McGee in the starting lineup from now on. Even with the newbie mistakes, he's' still a shot-blocking machine, and he's getting tougher on the boards. Put 15 pounds on him, and by this time next year, he'll be totally destroying people.

3. Thornton is just a great pickup. He can score like Caron and he's a much better defender. And he hustles his butt off.

4. They gotta get Gilbert back. Foye just can't break down defenses off the dribble the way that Gil can, even post-injury. And his outside shooting was awful last night. The Cs' defense took him totally out of his game down the stretch, which is the wiz had no ball movement and weren't spreading the floor.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | March 8, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

"Flip is a joke and his post-game comments were the punchline. He stinks out loud. As one of you asked earlier, would Flip have blasted Jamison for responding similarly to Blatche? The answer is clearly no he would not."

He wouldn't have had to, because Jamison wouldn't have fallen for Garnett's head games. Blatche talked about being respected. Well, you earn respect with your play not your talk, and a few games of nice numbers on a crap team doesn't earn Blatche anything in the eyes of the rest of the league. Saunders may have stated it harshly, but his underlying point was quite valid.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"guess that's where we differ, i see noticeable improvement even over the past 5 games or so- specifically with defensive positioning."

Did he make it through the whole game without one of Boston's big men pump faking him into orbit 20 feet from the basket like Brad Miller and Rasho Nesterovic did? Because that would be a big improvement.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"guess that's where we differ, i see noticeable improvement even over the past 5 games or so- specifically with defensive positioning. The Cs shot 41% last night and that had nothing do with Al Thornton's play."

You see noticeable improvement bc you want to. He has made a concerted effort to stay in front of his man the past couple of games instead of getting thrown around like a rag doll. I will grant you that. But, he still does not know a good shot from a bad one, I still cringe every time he touches the ball on offense and he is not in immediate dunk position, he still is often out of position on offensive and defensive sets, he still tries to block way too many shots and/or gets faked out of his drawers, he still has an extremely tough time holding his position, and he still doesn't rebound worth a damn for his size and athleticism. He should be grabbing rebounds that nobody else can and how often does he do so - NEVER.

I think someone said in here something to the effect of he makes the routine look difficult and circus freak play look easy. Well, until he stops making the routine look difficult he has not made great strides whatsoever.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

When a guy's talking trash so close to you that his lips touch your face, that's a bit too much. If you think Jamison would have accepted that, you're crazy. I think even Tim Duncan, aka Mr. Cool, would tell the KG to back up or back off. There's nothing to show that Blatche was thrown off his game by responding to KG. That said, I think Blatche earned just as much respect from KG with that hard foul he put on KG as his overall play last night.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

mcgee took 3 shots last night and scored 13pts. He also blocked 5 shots (several big time plays) and altered at least 5-7 more. Not a coincidence the Cs had one of their worst shooting nights of the season.

Yes, he should rebound better- but boards were even last night.

Whatever your criticisms and expectations, last night (the game we're talking) was a strong performance against a big frontcourt. That's all I'm saying.

That, I dont see how a Wizards fan can watch the current play of AB/JM and not be very optimistic

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is still young. If KG verbally attacks him "as a man" the answer isn't to start talking back. That's just what KG wants.

And Flip did coach KG for years. He does have a clue about how KG plays.

That said, strange time for Flip to go off the deep end.

Posted by: BPupp | March 8, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

To follow up on Thornton . . .

The one issue I see with him as an ongoing starter is how well he and Blatche mix, because they're very similar players in terms of style. If Blatche is going to continue to be the starter at PF, then the best complement at SF might be a quick, athletic, off-the-dribble type, which isn't really Thornton's game (and is something the Wiz haven't had in a long time).

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Not sure of the full story behind the Flip presser, but I am beginning to think Flip just wanted to throw in an ego check on AB. Like saying - you've had a nice few games kid, but let's not get crazy with your attitude. What I saw on the court I could not fault AB for so I imagine there is more to it (bigger picture) than meets the eye or ears in this case. For now, I am still in Flip's camp as this season really has had nothing to do with him and I almost feel sorry for him. Much like MM, he did not think he was signing up for this debacle of a season.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

"When a guy's talking trash so close to you that his lips touch your face, that's a bit too much. If you think Jamison would have accepted that, you're crazy. I think even Tim Duncan, aka Mr. Cool, would tell the KG to back up or back off. There's nothing to show that Blatche was thrown off his game by responding to KG. That said, I think Blatche earned just as much respect from KG with that hard foul he put on KG as his overall play last night."

Knocking a guy to the floor doesn't earn respect any more than shooting your mouth off. Kobe gets knocked to the floor all the time by guys he doesn't consider his equals. Think he really respects them? I doubt it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Was it Dray's fault Ray Allen got 2 WIDE OPEN three's at crunchtime?

Posted by: g-money | March 8, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I like the upside of JM as well. The thing that scares me is his total lack of basketball intelligence or fundamentals especially considering his PEDIGREE. Does he have the capacity to really ever get it??? Will he be able to figure out a good shot from a circus attempt??? Will he be able to read plays and be in the right position most of the time??? Will he learn not to try and block every shot and that rebounds are important too??? I don't know. I hope so. But, he is the exact same player this year he was last year.

Posted by: rphilli721

I agree and have voiced this point as well.

Posted by: G-Man11 | March 8, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

He wouldn't have had to, because Jamison wouldn't have fallen for Garnett's head games. Blatche talked about being respected. Well, you earn respect with your play not your talk, and a few games of nice numbers on a crap team doesn't earn Blatche anything in the eyes of the rest of the league. Saunders may have stated it harshly, but his underlying point was quite valid.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse
I don't think Dray has been about using talk to earn respect. If nothing else he was letting his play do the talking. He was torching Garnett and the rest of the Cs without much of a peep, despite the constant "dirty" play from Garnett.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Another thing, at least Blatche didn't go Anthony Peeler on him. Garnett can never been seen as a tough guy after that incident.

Even Lamarcus Aldridge is punking him as shown here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnFsXfnMxao&feature=related

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

When I said opponent pressing the ball, I didn't mean just PG. They double team whoever has the ball, and we simply don't have any scheme to make them pay. For instance, Thorton (who played well last night) got caught near the side line a couple of times, and Blatche was double-teamed often as well. Unlike Ray Allen who does not hesitate, Miller often looks to pass first when he gets the ball and missed the golden opportunity. I don't know it is because the players we have, or the coach simply do not draw up scheme to handle the situation.

McGee also played well last night, but he cannot make up his mind on offense and often resulted in TOs. I think McGee can be used very effectively as a trailing big on penetrations. Guards can drive to the basket, and just drop off to McGee who can trail on the vacuum that was left by the penetrating guard, and finish the play whereas the guards can't.

Regarding the comment someone made about Foye looks for the picks, the problem is, I have not seen a effective pick yet. When McGee setting picks, he rarely makes any contact with the opposing player. One person I now describe this as "McGee faking picks." Of course, this can also be the guard's fault, who didn't run the opponents close to the big guy who is setting picks. I remember when Haywood was setting picks, Gilbert used to grabbed on Haywood and used him as pivot to make a sharp turn (while opponent cannot do that), don't know why don't see more guards do that.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 8, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

KG was salty because AB was using him, and at age 23, KG is well aware Dray is now the better player and always will be.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Dray has been about using talk to earn respect. If nothing else he was letting his play do the talking. He was torching Garnett and the rest of the Cs without much of a peep, despite the constant "dirty" play from Garnett.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 1:18 PM

Dray so far looks all grown up. Was pointed out during the pregame that he now wears suits all the time and watches film whereas he never mentioned that before. Also talks about how much he owes AJ for showing him how to be a true pro. Why he didnt do this before who knows, guess he was always deferring to Jamison or whatever.

But he's doing it now, loves DC, and wants to be the face of the franchise. Keep him away from Logan Circle and we should be all set

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Knocking a guy to the floor doesn't earn respect any more than shooting your mouth off. Kobe gets knocked to the floor all the time by guys he doesn't consider his equals. Think he really respects them? I doubt it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:10 PM

Yes, I do think Kobe respects some of them, like a Bruce Bowen, who was nowhere near his level as an NBA talent.
The fact that you're better player than another, and that's debatable at this point with Blatche and Garnett, doesn't mean that you don't respect the fact that the guy across from you is not physically or mentally intimidated by you. Blatche gave him the BLUES last night and KG is fully aware of that fact.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

KG was salty because AB was using him, and at age 23, KG is well aware Dray is now the better player and always will be.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 1:24

That's all it was. AJ would not have responded that way because KG would not have went AJ like that. Why? Because he would not have felt threatened by AJ.

Posted by: millineumman | March 8, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"Yes, I do think Kobe respects some of them, like a Bruce Bowen, who was nowhere near his level as an NBA talent. "

And that respect grew over the course of a number of years and several hard fought playoff games. That's not the same thing as Blatche knocking Garnett to the floor in a meaningless late season regular matchup. If anything, Garnett would have taken such an obvious sign of a Blatche trying to send a message as evidence that he'd gotten into his head. Players respect other players who prove that they can produce when it matters most. Blatche hasn't even come close to that yet.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

@divi3,

Never said he didn't have a good game against the Celtics, but he is not THE frontline. His athleticism should be causing teams problems on a nightly basis particularly one as old and slow as the Celtics. But, he is still the same erratic, helter skelter, non-sound player he has always been thus far. And, obviously, the reason we were even on the boards had nothing to do with JM. He has had flashes of being great to very good defensively quite a few times, which does not mean he has suddenly blossomed and changed as a player. Trust me, he has a few years of development left at least. Whatever you're straining to see after 5 games is not putting him on the fast track of development. Perhaps, he doesn't peak until his late 20's ala your favorite player BH, which is, again, pretty normal for big men drafted late in the first round and that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Apparently, you would be though.

@Kal,

Not sure I get your Al Thornton post. To me, he is an athletic, quick for his size, slashing, off the dribble type player. He might be a little bit of a black hole, but otherwise seems to fit what you think Blatche needs. So far, they've actually played well together.

Oy vey, if only NY showed signs of life, we would be well on our way back to respectability. I think if he has not arisen by the end of this season a career of any consequence can all but be forgotten. Perhaps, his career period.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

But, he is the exact same player this year he was last year.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 12:32 PM

guess that's where we differ, i see noticeable improvement even over the past 5 games or so- specifically with defensive positioning. The Cs shot 41% last night and that had nothing do with Al Thornton's play.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 12:41 PM


Nobody reading this blog believes rphilli721 actually believes that JM is not a better player now than this time last year. He's obviously a BTH fan and the criticism that BTH has taken from many Wizards fans have, (which I do not agree with for the most part) have made him unjustly critical of JM.

BTH is what he is and had a low(er) ceiling whereas JM seems to have a higher ceiling largely based on his athleticism and desire which he clearly has in his favor over BTH.

I also question players having career years in contract years, where was all this hustle in previous years?

Posted by: zxhoya | March 8, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Although it may have looked like Foye dribbled the game away in the 4th, perhaps is was really just poor Bbal IQ from Blatch.

But did anyone else notice that after one of Foye's dribble-it-away-turnovers, the wiz called timeout and Flip walked right past Foye to yell at AB? That makes me think AB is supposed to be doing something (pick, flash to a particular spot, etc.)and he isn't where he's supposed to be. That plus Flip's comments about "guys being on the wrong side of the court."

Don't get me wrong, AB kept us in the game by outplaying KG and Perkins in the 1st Half. But to win a game against a decent team, he'll need to step up his focus one more notch.

Posted by: cballer | March 8, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

As for McGee, I've said all along that his physical potential is considerable, but the NBA boneyard is littered with the corpses of young players' potential. He's had games earlier in the season where it looked like the light might be coming on, only to lapse back into the same frustrating bad habits a few games later. That's a very worrisome trend because it hints at difficulty learning the lessons of his mistakes. Until he proves that those lessons have sunk in over an extended period, those question marks will remain.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

If anything, Garnett would have taken such an obvious sign of a Blatche trying to send a message as evidence that he'd gotten into his head. Players respect other players who prove that they can produce when it matters most. Blatche hasn't even come close to that yet.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:37 PM

And KG respects Blatche more today than he did yesterday. Whether he got into his head or not, KG found out he's got some heart in addition to the considerable talent he unquestionably displayed last night. Should serve him well the next time they play.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"To me, he is an athletic, quick for his size, slashing, off the dribble type player."

Quick for his size is not the same thing as quick for the average NBA starting SF. Thornton is a classic 'tweener forward, not really one or the other. He's a lot like Jamison in that regard, although quicker. But he's not a hard slasher who takes guys off the dribble in the half-court.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

By standing his ground to KG he has earned the respect of his idol. You don't let anybody push you around whether in playground basketball or a pro league. Thats just how it is and you don't have to be a thug to get respect. People that say you earn your respect by your play (only)doesn't know what he's talking about.

Posted by: Dave381 | March 8, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

"Nobody reading this blog believes rphilli721 actually believes that JM is not a better player now than this time last year. He's obviously a BTH fan and the criticism that BTH has taken from many Wizards fans have, (which I do not agree with for the most part) have made him unjustly critical of JM.

BTH is what he is and had a low(er) ceiling whereas JM seems to have a higher ceiling largely based on his athleticism and desire which he clearly has in his favor over BTH.

I also question players having career years in contract years, where was all this hustle in previous years?"

Ummm...I presume you have some magical mind reading powers. I believe exactly what I said I believe. JM is virtually the same player this year he was last year. And, no, I am/was not a great fan of BH. Although he was probably the best center the franchise has had in quite some time, which is not saying much and he obviously had his limitations. That being said, he is right now a top tier defensive center and just a very sound player overall. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and JM is WAY behind BH in the development curve at the moment as he should be. Does JM have a higher ceiling or potential? Sure. Hard to argue otherwise. But, as Kal pointed out, the league is littered with players who had little to no careers with all the potential in the world. NY is about to be one of them.

As far as your contract year assertion, I see the same player this year that he was a couple of seasons ago before his injury last year. So, I believe it's more of a player just coming into his prime who should/could have had 3 consecutive fairly productive seasons. It's not some one off contract year thing. He doesn't have that sort of reputation either.

I wish BH well, but I am not joining his fan club nor JM's just yet.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

"So far, they've actually played well together."

They've put up nice numbers that haven't produced a lot of wins on a bad team.

One of the elements needed to build a team is balance. I'm just wondering whether a Blatche/Thornton combo is the best way to balance the court for the Wiz. It may well turn out to be, but I don't think the question has been settled yet. But, as I said, unless they have a line on someone who is clearly better, Thornton can fill the bill reasonably well in the short-term. Long-term, it may not matter.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

@Kal,

Alright, I see where you are coming from now.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

i think we'd have a really good balanced attack if we got anything from our guards.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Within 2 seasons Mcgee will have fully eclipsed BTH and he'll be 24, that's my prediction.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Since the All-Star Break:

Thornton's FG: 53%

Blatche's FG: 55%

Those numbers are favorable for any starting SF/PF combination in the league. Being on a good team versus a bad team might affect the number of shots you take, but would only improve the quality of shots you take. I think Thorton's a keeper as a starter if the Wiz can get more consistent outside scoring from their backcourt.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"Within 2 seasons Mcgee will have fully eclipsed BTH . . . "

HA! Way to set the bar low!

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

agree 100% with those saying the big issue is the backcourt....surely Flip, EG, and Gil all see the same thing, wonder if that helps them make nice.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

For shizzle, lilhollywood10. Our two guard has been getting killed ever since LH left.
At some point are we going to address that position? MM is NOT the answer. He's a good bench guy and glue guy if he's playing with all stars. He's too timid to be counted on to score points, though.
He reminds me of Tim Legler. Tim was a great shooter but was so hesitant to fire it up that he was almost useless.

Posted by: original_mark | March 8, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

divi3, I agree with you. As I've said a bunch of times, JM and BTH are 1 and 2 in terms of standing reach IN THE LEAGUE. They both alter a lot of shots. The biggest difference between BTH and JM is that BTH is strong enough to hold his position and rebound while JM isnt there yet. JM also has more range n his shot.(That may not be a good thing)
Even with that current disadvantage, I'd take a 23 yr old JM over a 30 yr old BTH any day.

Posted by: original_mark | March 8, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I guess you clowns don't watch basketball. What Flip said was right. The Celtics were getting there butts whipped because they were physically out matched by the Wiz. Come 4th quater Garnett was in our best players head. The second best player Thorton was being defended very well and Randy Foye pulled a Randy Foye dribbling out the shot clock and taking horrible shots. This is how old vets beat young teams. Getting into a players head and keeping him from playing his game is more effective defensivly then trying to block every shot, especially when you can't. Garnett was out match and he knew it. Some of you said it was too much him being in Dray day's face like that. Garnett slapped Tim Duncan in the back of the head once. Duncan was getting the best of him all game and Garnett was trying to get into his head which he later admitted. Thow Duncan got mad and got in KG's face he kept his cool and continued to have a great game and lead his team to a win. You think people didn't talk s**t to MJ? They did, every game and what happen. Do you remember Kobe's "Who is Reja Bell" qoute before the sun lakers series a fews back. What happen there. You can't talk great players out their game. And if Dray Day wants to be great like we all know he can be. He can't neither

Posted by: Keith28dagger | March 8, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I read these posts and knew it was going to happen. Why do people ALWAYS tear this team apart no matter who is on it. None of the players are never good enough. If I were a player, the way the supposed "fans" tear them to shred on blogs, I wouldn't come here either. I knew it was a matter of time before people started to ripping the new kids on the block. Now, all I read is negativity about Thornton. Come on now, surely no one on here expected this team, as it is presently constructed, to all of a sudden start beating teams left and right. What you want to see is some kind of progress. I would rather root for "this" team more so than the ones who just left. This team does at least try.

Posted by: ivyleague | March 8, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"KG was salty because AB was using him, and at age 23, KG is well aware Dray is now the better player and always will be.
Posted by: divi3"

Better than Kevin Garnett? Andray Blatche?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

What Flip said was right. The Celtics were getting there butts whipped because they were physically out matched by the Wiz. Come 4th quater Garnett was in our best players head. The second best player Thorton was being defended very well and Randy Foye pulled a Randy Foye dribbling out the shot clock and taking horrible shots.

Posted by: Keith28dagger | March 8, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Keith28dagger

Randy Foye dribbling out the shot clock and taking horrible shots was the biggest problem and since Flip lets him do that maybe Flip should look in the mirror and look at what a poor coaching job he is doing?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 8, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Better than Kevin Garnett? Andray Blatche?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 2:44 PM

Yes. KG is breaking down with a quickness, lots of miles on this treads.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I guess you clowns don't watch basketball. What Flip said was right. The Celtics were getting there butts whipped because they were physically out matched by the Wiz. Come 4th quater Garnett was in our best players head. The second best player Thorton was being defended very well and Randy Foye pulled a Randy Foye dribbling out the shot clock and taking horrible shots. This is how old vets beat young teams.
Posted by: Keith28dagger | March 8, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

this may also be how stubborn coaches get exposed. Last time i checked there were 2 other guys on the court while AB,RF,and AT were getting the bulk of the defensive pressure. Maybe our coach, you know the one who's never had to draw up a play for a guy in his coaching career; coulda jotted down a coupla thoughts on how to take advantage of the defense with some of the players who were more loosely guarded. Oh yeah, and Doc drew up the game winner for Ray. What does doc know about winning? My 7 50 win seasons kills your NBA title anyday! LOL

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Flip made much ado about nothing. AB didnt get technical, he didnt yell, he didnt take a swing at KG, or even get up in his face fronting the standard nba fake fight. What he DID do, was not defer to the mighty Garnett yapping in his ear.

Good for AB, and maybe next time someone will get him the ball late in the 4th and he can drop some deuces in KGs grill for the win

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@Kal,

Exactly. At this point, they just need players, period. I don't know if AT is any long term solution either, but he would be a good bench player at least.

This rebuild has gone pretty well thus far IMO.

Plenty of cap space and
a potential roster next year:

AB PF
AT SF
JM C
GA PG
Foye SG

Bench:
Lottery pick
Another pick
NY
Singleton
Some FA pick up big

Depending on the lottery pick and things like possibly bringing back JH by picking up that option for a season, we could be fighting for the 7th/8th seed as soon as next season. Or, we go the tank one more season route for two potential franchise players. A lot depends on how we do in the lottery this year I presume.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"Come 4th quater Garnett was in our best players head."

Yeah, it is easier to blames Drey's head than to explain why we are so inept against pressing defense. Celtics became aggressive and started to press hard on whoever had the ball in 4th Q (they got nothing to loss), exactly what Milwaukee did to us in previouse games. Whose head was to blame in Milwaukee games then?

Posted by: sagaliba | March 8, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Depending on the lottery pick and things like possibly bringing back JH by picking up that option for a season, we could be fighting for the 7th/8th seed as soon as next season. Or, we go the tank one more season route for two potential franchise players. A lot depends on how we do in the lottery this year I presume.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 2:55 PM

You don't pick up an option for $12 million for a player coming off an ACL tear when you can get him for half that amount which, by the way, would still be more than anybody else would pay him). Howard probably won't be ready to play competitive b-ball until January anyway.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Gil/NY was our most productive backcourt this season, just sayin

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

rphilli721,

My problem with Thornton starting at 3 is that he does not handle the ball that well. And that's part of the reasons why opponents were able to trap us. I hope we can sign someone (who is Josh Howard caliber) at the 3, and Thornton can backup either 3 or 4. I do not mind him playing at 3 as long as we can switch to a different combination when the other team started to exploit our weakness.

Posted by: sagaliba | March 8, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

This rebuild has gone pretty well thus far IMO. Your's and Ernie's?

Plenty of cap space and
a potential roster next year:

AB PF
AT SF
JM C
GA PG The worst thing the Wizards could do
Foye SG another ernie mistake


Lottery pick Starting Point Guard who can grow with the front line
Another pick best player for the bench
NY give me a break
Singleton ?
Some FA pick up big? shooting guard with experience

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 8, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Against the Wizards i always see KG doing something to disrupt our rhythm. Remember other games when the whistle blew the play was dead and Antawn would shoot the ball anyways? KG would jump and catch the ball before it would have a chance to go in. Last night I never seen KG so fiesty. Dray just traveled in the fourth quarter was holding the ball about to give it to the refs but KG tried to swat it out Dray's hands. I used to respect KG but now he seems like a bully and I don't know if he got that from Sheed or he is just bitter hes not the player he used to be.

Posted by: jefferu | March 8, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is most certainly better than KG at this point in their careers. KG has hit the wall fast and hard. He's played since he was 18 and played major mins his whole career. Time for some new tires if your Boston. That 2/3 year window has shut and Boston is lucky it got the championship the first year bc they are not winning again. At least we are ahead of them in rebuilding.

As far as JM, yeah, being better than BH in two seasons is hardly reaching his potential. Again, mentally, I doubt his abilities very much. Something is not right considering his pedigree. He played for Nevada in college! Nevada! Something is not right for all his athletic gifts.

More range? What? He takes more dumb shots that is for sure and he thinks he has range when he absolutely does not.

Right now JM needs to concentrate on getting stronger, getting rebounds, and being the best defensive player he can be. The only shot he needs to take on offense is a clear dunk. I could easily see him being a top 5 center in a couple of seasons defensively, but that's about it in that time frame. For perspective, Dwight Howard called BH a top 3 defensive center this season.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"As I've said a bunch of times, JM and BTH are 1 and 2 in terms of standing reach IN THE LEAGUE".

I found this interesting. I knew they were both really long but I would have thought somebody like Yao, Ilgauskas, or Hibbert might surpass them. I wasn't able to find measurements for those last 3.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

"Yes. KG is breaking down with a quickness, lots of miles on this treads.
Posted by: divi3"

Hmmm... KG might be breaking down some, but Andray Blatche? If you'd said Dwight Howard, sure. But Andray Blatche?

Sounds a bit giddy.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Blurred,

It looks like Ernie's trade for MM and Foye really sucks now! Could you imagine the Wizards front line with a guy like Jennings or Lawson running the point?

I said that last year when he made the trade so it's not hndsight.

The Wizards need to let MM and Foye walk and keep the good draft pick they will get in this years draft and draft the best point guard on the board.

It will be eaiser to find a free agent 2 guard who has some experience and lets not sell any picks and start the rebuilding process through the draft.

Last thing the Wizards can't let Gil back on the court with these guys.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | March 8, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Correct about the trade, BF. You must have been the only guy who realized we were going to completely suck (except DCMan, but he is insane), including the rest of the league and all the writers. So I guess I will have to give you credit for seeing the future so well.

When we get closer to draft time, I look forward to you telling us who to draft.

Which FA 2 do you reccomend?

Posted by: Blurred | March 8, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

@divi3

hey don't start that. NOBODY wants to hear that.LMAO

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"The only shot [McGee] needs to take on offense is a clear dunk."

I don't mind him practicing his 12 foot turnaround in a game. He has a nice release and if he learns to square up better the ball should start to drop. Anybody can dunk but the turnaround is a shot he could make a living from.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm... KG might be breaking down some, but Andray Blatche? If you'd said Dwight Howard, sure. But Andray Blatche?

Sounds a bit giddy.


Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

yeah, cuz dwight howard has sooooooooooooo much game. Lls
Dwight is a coupla steps ahead of JM. I wouldn't compare DH to AB anyway. DH is a glorified dunker. AB has loads of offensive game. A very similar game to KG's, which makes the comparison pretty easy. I don't know if AB brings to a team what KG does, but there's no doubt he outplayed him last night,and has been putting up better numbers than him since the break.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

maybe if Flip ran JM a few plays he'd look a little better. as it stands, boykins/foye just dribble until they are completely surrounded and then hand the ball to whomever is nearest them. When that's mcgee, he looks like it's a game of hot potato.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

"Randy Foye dribbling out the shot clock and taking horrible shots was the biggest problem and since Flip lets him do that maybe Flip should look in the mirror and look at what a poor coaching job he is doing?"

Yeah, I'm sure Flip is coaching him to do just that. It might have something to do with the talent level on the team now and/ or having no other option - Boykins? Please. He is as bad or worse than Foye offensively and much worse defensively. Don't even try to put these games or season on FS. It's absurd.

As far as GA is concerned, he is under contract and I doubt another team takes him off our hands without us having to take some garbage in return. Is GA going to take a 40 million dollar buyout? Doubt it. So he is most likely back on our team for at least a season.

As far as JH is concerned, it's a knee ligament tear. Not the death sentence it used to be and fairly common these days. I have not heard a timetable for his return, but if he can play to start next season take a flier on him. Perhaps, we get a discount for him to prove himself for a season. Not like it's a long term investment and we have plenty of cap space.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Correct about the trade, BF. You must have been the only guy who realized we were going to completely suck (except DCMan, but he is insane), including the rest of the league and all the writers. So I guess I will have to give you credit for seeing the future so well.

When we get closer to draft time, I look forward to you telling us who to draft.

Which FA 2 do you reccomend?

Posted by: Blurred | March 8, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I think a lot of people second guessed the lofty expectations and prognostications of sportswriters and unnamed league personnel. I for one had doubt that MM,RF and Flip were somehow gonna spearhead a 31 game turnaround to get us to 50 wins and around the top of the conference. Nobody could have predicted the turns that this season took, cuz i doubt anyone woulda predicted the whole OK corral incident. But to try to minimize people's comments cuz a whole bunch of people who are paid to know basketball were wrong seems unneccesarry. i remember a lot of people downing the hiring of Flip. A lot more didn't like the the trade (either on it's face or because of the timing). even more doubted the 50 win talks. my point is 78 and DC_MAN have been consistent with their commentary whether you think it's hating or not.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

I just read Flip's post game comments from Kal's post, and man you have to be kidding me....!!!! Now as I stated before, I am a big Flip fan. I have had no problems with his sub calling this year until last night. Keeping Foye in at the point is what lost the game, not AB going back and forth with KG.

For Flip to call out AB like that is totally crazy. What else was AB supposed to do....??? KB has always been a trash talker and he was the one starting it all. If AB would not have said anything everybody would have been calling him "soft".

Flip really needs to watch himself. He was totally wrong on his comments. He needs to look in the mirror and realize HE IS THE ONE who lost the game last night. He had Bokins and Livenston right there on the bench the whole 4th quarter and did not use them for Foye.

He also needs to call out Mike Miller also then if he is going to start calling out people. If I see that dude dribble penatrate into the paint and kick out to a wing player one more time without shooting I am going to SCREAM.

Everybody knows that what he does and that is why everybody "jumps" the passing lanes the minute he drives because EVERYBODY knows he is not going to shoot the dang rock. How can you be a starting shooting guard and take only 7 shots in 41 minutes????? Please somebody explain.

Lastly, Dre was unable to score because all of the other teams are double teaming and doubling down on him and he can not get a shot off. That is where your so called "starting backcourt" is supposed to create offense to shut that down.

Flip please watch yourself, because brother you were wrong on your post game comments last night.....

Posted by: BulletsFever | March 8, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

If a draft were held right now, 28 out of 30 teams would take AB over KG. It has nothing to do with careers and everything to do with who is and who will be a better player in the future. The only teams that would consider KG instead would be legit contenders looking for that final piece or edge and even then they are getting more intangibles than actual production.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

@wood,

A broken clock is right two times a day!

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I can't say that Flip is coaching RF and EB to dribble out the clock and bog down the offense. However, I don't think Flip is dropping the hammer about how he wants his offense run. Even if the other teams are turning up the heat on defense, when do you put it on the coach to make an adjustment? The Great Mike Lee wrote about AB having to adjust to more attention from opposing defenses a week or so ago. Why is it that the wiz look so helpless when teams bone up on AB in the money quarter? For a coach to say and be quoted as saying that he has never run a play for a guy and doesn't think he should have to, gives insight into what adjustments are and are not being made during the course of the game. If MM has so much trouble getting his shot off, why not run a play for him to get open? hell that might justify him getting 41 mins of clock. Instead of having the high pick and roll every time down, how bout you tweak it and tell Foye that he must look for JM on the lob? Hindsight is 20/20, and everybody can be an armchair qb, but jeez you have to think that Flip isn't doing a very good job regardless of personal player preferences and gripes with ownership.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"yeah, cuz dwight howard has sooooooooooooo much game. Lls
Dwight is a coupla steps ahead of JM. "

That's just insane.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I've got a new wishful thinking scenario that I can hope for in the draft (other than the obvious "Win the John Wall sweepstakes").

-The Wiz move-up in the lottery (some GOOD luck for once) and snag NCAA POY Evan Turner with all his versatility and high Bball IQ.

-Use the Cavs pick to add one of the tough wide bodies available. I want the kind of big man who can box-out so well that the ball can hit the ground before he rebounds it.

-Then, add at least a back-up PG that can break a press and play defense in the 2nd round. (Kalin Lucas?)

Posted by: SportzWiz | March 8, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

speaking of lobs, what mike lee is crediting foye with was actually a blocked shot that JM dunked. Foye wasnt looking for the alley-oop, he was shooting. At least that's what the replay looked like.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Dray just traveled in the fourth quarter was holding the ball about to give it to the refs but KG tried to swat it out Dray's hands. I used to respect KG but now he seems like a bully and I don't know if he got that from Sheed or he is just bitter hes not the player he used to be.

Posted by: jefferu | March 8, 2010 3:14 PM

I saw that too. I also saw Blatche give him a chicken wing to the chest and he stopped his pursuit. Of course Perkins then came up from behind and snatched it from him, but Blatche had made his point to KG.

Posted by: artiesliver | March 8, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

not even Dwight knows his own body better than JM, who is more like Bambi getting his legs. But DH is by no means a polished or impressive offensive player. He gets by on his strength,hops and quicks. The only thing he lacks is the strength, and maybe some bball IQ in that Dwight knows better than to try some of the things JM tries. But all in all i can't say that DH's offensive bag is much better than JM's other than DH has the strength to work from the post whereas JM's buckets are much more of an adventure.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

'scuse me that was supposed to be an emphatic "not even!"

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Garnett has always been a bully. Hell, most great players are bullies to some extent, in the sense that they enjoy putting the screws to guys they think aren't as good as them.

Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Magic, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron all have/had that streak in them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

that's exactly why BTH defends howard so well, howard goes right at him but is maybe 6'9". Haywood holds his ground, raises his hands, and eats him up.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"He gets by on his strength,hops and quicks."

He has all of those. He also has better hands, better footwork, better vision, and better overall instincts on offense than McGee can even dream about. Comparing the two on any level is flat out ridiculous.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"If a draft were held right now, 28 out of 30 teams would take AB over KG. It has nothing to do with careers and everything to do with who is and who will be a better player in the future. The only teams that would consider KG instead would be legit contenders looking for that final piece or edge and even then they are getting more intangibles than actual production.
Posted by: rphilli721"

Wow. I think we need a calming influence around WI.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Not saying that Howard is Kareem or anything, but he's light years ahead of McGee as an offensive player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

"that's exactly why BTH defends howard so well, howard goes right at him but is maybe 6'9". Haywood holds his ground, raises his hands, and eats him up.Posted by: divi3"

I think Howard is a little taller than that in his 'Didases. Main reason Haywood had what success he did against Howard is because of Dwight's inability to hit a simple jump shot. Otherwise he'd go right up over him. McGee might have more success except he lacks muscle.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 8, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

""If a draft were held right now, 28 out of 30 teams would take AB over KG."

Yeah, well if a draft were held right now, KG would be a near-34 year old veteran with 15 years of hard NBA mileage and bad knees. Most GMs tend to shy away from drafting guys in their 30s.


Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

How many players entering the draft this year would an nba GM take over AB right now? I say none.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

"I can't say that Flip is coaching RF and EB to dribble out the clock and bog down the offense. However, I don't think Flip is dropping the hammer about how he wants his offense run. Even if the other teams are turning up the heat on defense, when do you put it on the coach to make an adjustment? The Great Mike Lee wrote about AB having to adjust to more attention from opposing defenses a week or so ago. Why is it that the wiz look so helpless when teams bone up on AB in the money quarter? For a coach to say and be quoted as saying that he has never run a play for a guy and doesn't think he should have to, gives insight into what adjustments are and are not being made during the course of the game. If MM has so much trouble getting his shot off, why not run a play for him to get open? hell that might justify him getting 41 mins of clock. Instead of having the high pick and roll every time down, how bout you tweak it and tell Foye that he must look for JM on the lob? Hindsight is 20/20, and everybody can be an armchair qb, but jeez you have to think that Flip isn't doing a very good job regardless of personal player preferences and gripes with ownership."

What in the world are you babbling about? You are telling me that FS is not making adjustments and/or not trying to get sub par talent to execute plays??? This team is all hustle and effort. It is not better than any team out there at the moment. It's cupboard just got emptied. And you are concerned about coaching strategies from a coach that has won 50+ games 8 times in his career. We don't have one player starting now that would start for the top 5 teams in the league or more for that matter. Blatche would be the only borderline exception and that is based on two weeks worth of play. The players running the team now Foye/Boykins were not supposed to be running this team full time at all. It's called a dearth of talent at the moment and not a dearth of coaching. Get used to losing and hello lottery. It's called rebuilding!

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

""If a draft were held right now, 28 out of 30 teams would take AB over KG."

Yeah, well if a draft were held right now, KG would be a near-34 year old veteran with 15 years of hard NBA mileage and bad knees. Most GMs tend to shy away from drafting guys in their 30s."

Exactly the point. Someone feigned indignation that Blatche is a better player right now, but it's true. It's not based on career achievements. It's based on the fact that KG is washed up and AB is actually starting to blossom.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"How many players entering the draft this year would an nba GM take over AB right now?"

That's a bristling straw man of an argument.

Blatche is a vet with 5 years in the NBA under his belt. If he were in the draft, he wouldn't have any of the experience he's gained in those years, and that experience is all that separates him from being the same raw 19-year-old with questionable attitude and work ethic who got taken at the ass-end of the 2nd round.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

If DH is a better offensive player only bc he is bigger and stronger, he is still a better offensive player by miles. Logic be damned. And, DH's unpolished post moves are still light years ahead of JM's.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

He has all of those. He also has better hands, better footwork, better vision, and better overall instincts on offense than McGee can even dream about. Comparing the two on any level is flat out ridiculous.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse
Having already admitted that Dwight is in fact ahead of McGee developmentally, i only differ in opinion over the degree of advancement. I haven't seen McGee drop many passes or fumble the ball around. Conversely, I've seen McGee handle the ball as well as or better than DH. I think a lot of the other stuff(footwork,vision,"instincts") will come out as he puts on mass, if he can put the weight on and keep his natural gifts. Dwights muscle beach body allows him to find his spot on the block and work for position. JM just gets pushed off his spot and forced into making catches way out of his comfort zone. DH would look comparably awkward were he not built like tank.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

"Someone feigned indignation that Blatche is a better player right now, but it's true."

Depends on how you define "player." Blatche is a better physical specimen than Garnett, no doubt. But Garnett is an old man, so what the hell do you expect? But in terms of skill, knowledge, and understanding of the game, Garnett has forgotten more than Blatche knows. For all Blatche's current physical superiority, Garnett still found a way to influence the game in a way that helped his team win while Blatche could do nothing to stop his team from falling apart around him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I haven't seen McGee drop many passes or fumble the ball around.

That's because the ball rarely gets passed to him on anything other than ally-opps, and rightly so.

"Conversely, I've seen McGee handle the ball as well as or better than DH."

You've seen him handle it more than Howard, which is part of McGee's problem. He thinks he's a SG.

I think a lot of the other stuff(footwork,vision,"instincts") will come out as he puts on mass, if he can put the weight on and keep his natural gifts."

Aside from being wrong, that doesn't even make any sense. You don't automatically develop skill by putting on weight. You develop them through study, learning, practice and repetition. McGee can Hulk-out like Mark McGuire, but that won't do a damn thing to improve his skills if he doesn't work on them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"How many players entering the draft this year would an nba GM take over AB right now?"

I actually think that is a fair question considering Blatche is about the age of a college senior. And the answer would be perhaps one or two players, but that's about it. I would pick Wall over him for sure. I think Blatche has a nice future ahead of him, but does not have a chance of becoming a franchise player. He will be a CB level player at best with one or two all-star appearances possible at his peak. Anybody in this draft who does have that franchise potential should and would be drafted ahead of him.

Not so bad for a player taken at the azz end of the second round 4/5 years ago at the age of 18.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

For all Blatche's current physical superiority, Garnett still found a way to influence the game in a way that helped his team win while Blatche could do nothing to stop his team from falling apart around him.

Posted by: kalo_rama

KG found a way to watch Rondo torch Foye, that's what happened. Garnet made no big plays down the stretch, or at any point in the game really. Nor did he get under ABs skin and negatively affect his play. Rondo/Allen carried the day for the Cs last night, KG was just along for the ride.

Posted by: divi3 | March 8, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Not saying that Howard is Kareem or anything, but he's light years ahead of McGee as an offensive player.

"He gets by on his strength,hops and quicks."

He has all of those. He also has better hands, better footwork, better vision, and better overall instincts on offense than McGee can even dream about. Comparing the two on any level is flat out ridiculous.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

To compare these players now is not realistic as this organization is finally investing meaningful playing time in McGee.
The last two years have been lost for these players simply because of the schizophrenic playing time and veteran meritocracy that has plagued this dsfunctionally ran franchise. These young fellas should have been playing last year at this time in a 19-63 season.

In terms of basketball polish Howard is clearly superior to McGee but it wont take much to surpass him. McGee has superior shooting form(6 for 6 at the line last night) and will fluorish in a more open offense. This season will give theses young fellows (sans Nick Young) further incentive to work on their games.

The addition of Gil Arenas (hopefully) and a quality FA AT THE 2 will move this squad to the mddle of the playoff picture in the East.

Posted by: NewManagement | March 8, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

we've been very bad all year long. Flip had had no answer. Of course this wasn't his ideal situation, but that's kinda what coaching is about. No other coach has had to deal with the adversity he's had to deal with, but there are a lot of situations he could have handled differently. AB was ballin while AJ was hurt, Flip didn't care to mix up the rotations at PF eventhough AB was "coming out" early in the year. MM is playing himself into obscurity each night out but Flip still won't dish out some of his minutes. JM is the future of our frontline along with AB. It'd been nice if he didn't rack up the DNP-CDs in favor of BTH and OLDberto early on. Flip's a 50 win coach, what am i saying? it's all part of his master plan.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"Depends on how you define "player." Blatche is a better physical specimen than Garnett, no doubt. But Garnett is an old man, so what the hell do you expect? But in terms of skill, knowledge, and understanding of the game, Garnett has forgotten more than Blatche knows. For all Blatche's current physical superiority, Garnett still found a way to influence the game in a way that helped his team win while Blatche could do nothing to stop his team from falling apart around him."

Hence, the only teams that would take Blatche instead would be looking for those intangibles and not physical ability at this point. You are disagreeing by agreeing with what I said.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Orlando, Atlanta, Utah, Denver...those are the types of teams that might take KG over Blatche and that is a big might at the moment. KG is really more washed up than I thought he was going to be this season. It ends quickly for a lot of players and he seems to be one.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Aside from being wrong, that doesn't even make any sense. You don't automatically develop skill by putting on weight. You develop them through study, learning, practice and repetition. McGee can Hulk-out like Mark McGuire, but that won't do a damn thing to improve his skills if he doesn't work on them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | March 8, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse
just as you said about the frequency with which JM handles the ball being the reason that i seems as though he does it better; i can say the same about DH and his "post skills". He is able to show you all of the post moves,footwork and savvy he has in his aresenal, because he is able to go where he wants on the block. i can't say that JM has poor footwork,vision or instincts, because he is often pushed off the block. He may posess all of the tools to do the same things DH does, he just lacks the strength. You could see it against Bogut last week. He would drive, get the edge, then Bogut would just ride him out of the lane with a lil hip bump. No one said that the weight room would make JM a more skilled player, more so that he is a skilled player and needs to hit the weights so that he can maximize his talents.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

@Wood,

He started the season with a supposed veteran semi-contender. Therefore, players like AB and JM weren't going to get major mins regardless of performance. That's just how it works. I was on record as saying I liked AB starting instead of AJ at the time, but I also understand why you go with a quality player like AJ in that situation. Blatche was always known for being subprime in his professional habits prior to the trades and he lost any benefit of the doubt when AJ returned.

As far as the overall performance of the previous group, there was built in "staleness" and chemistry issues that pretty much nobody predicted and it's not something that a new coach can derail very easily. And, of course, this was before it all fell apart with the GA debacle.

With MM and any other rotation questions now, what options are there?!? There are none! Take the losses and bad performances and head to the lottery. Actually, the effort and hustle has improved from the beginning of the season, which is a real indictment on the likes of AJ and CB in particular. I wouldn't put BH in that category as he was often the only player maxing out most games in the effort category.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

"KG found a way to watch Rondo torch Foye, that's what happened. Garnet made no big plays down the stretch, or at any point in the game really. Nor did he get under ABs skin and negatively affect his play. Rondo/Allen carried the day for the Cs last night, KG was just along for the ride."

Very true. For all KG's efforts in trying to get to AB, it was Rondo keeping him from getting the ball down the stretch that kept him from continuing to torch KG. I believe Blatche had one shot attempt in the final 6 mins, which isn't going to cut it when he is now our de facto best player. One of the reasons that last night's game was one of his most impressive in his career IMO is bc of the opposition.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

AB was getting it in while AJ was out with injury. It's always some old complaints bout these young cats that come out as a reason to bury guys on the bench rather that ruffle the feathers of an entitled vet.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

pardon my contemporary urban slang, AB was playing very well while Aj was out with injury.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

I think forgot what team he was coaching - KG was his boy, now he can do no wrong - Flip was a punk about his post game comments - he needs to be fined.

Posted by: h20law2000 | March 8, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

hard to talk about a calming prescence, when you're the one stiring the pot.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | March 8, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

@wood,

Who cares what AJ was doing at the time? That does not negate years of poor practice and game readiness habits. It's been revealed that he just recently has taken things like game plans, scouting reports, and lifting weights seriously. There is more going on than your simple arm chair coaching can possibly fathom.

Posted by: rphilli721 | March 8, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

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