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Uncertainty for Randy Foye, an honor for Gus Johnson

Morning brew

Wizards guard Randy Foye says he'd like to stay with the Wizards next year, despite this season's ups and downs. However, a team source told Michael Lee that it is unlikely that the Wizards would retain Foye at the price of his qualifying offer,

To foul or not to foul? That is the question Truth About It's Kyle Weidie asked eight Wizards players.

Bullets Forever's Mike Prada notes that the Wizards's new offense is working fairly well and wonders why it took so long to implement a new offense.

Be sure to read Lee's blog post on former Bullet Gus Johnson being elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Scottie Pippen, Karl Malone and two of the best U.S. Olympic teams were also selected Monday as part of tthe Hall of Fame's class of 2010.

The Wizards play the the Golden State Warriors tonight at Verizon Center.

By Alexa Steele  |  April 6, 2010; 10:01 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  | Tags: Washington Wizards, gus johnson, randy foye  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Gus Johnson finally gets in Hall of Fame
Next: Don Nelson going for history, Thornton to return in Orlando

Comments

God Bless M. Lee, its been a rough two years for the fans. I can only imagine how tough its been for you. Thanks for what you do.

Posted by: DMoney28 | April 6, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

41 free NBA games, free grub in the media area, access to some of the best athletes in the world, monetary compensation, oh yeah my heart bleeds for mike lee and his Insider info.LLS

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Ernie gambled last year's 5th pick and lost. I understand why he did it but in hindsight, he should have considered the fact that Miller is unrestricted after this year. Foye is restricted.

Now you are left with the decision on Foye. Is he worth showing as the main commodity obtained with the #5 pick? I don't think he is. That is why the Wiz don't know whether to re-sign him or not. What is his value?

Could have had Stephan Curry or Brandon Jennings on a rookie contract.

I know Ernie wanted to supplement the veterans already on the team, for a playoff run. But again, Miller is unrestricted and Foye is restricted.

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Foye stinks. He's an undersized 2 guard, with an average game, and he's a lousy point guard. This team needs a good 2 and a great 1. I don't see how this team needs him. The Wiz already have Nick Young to satisfy the average 2 guard slot, and Livingston has proven that he is worthy of at least a backup 1 spot. So long Foye.

Writing this makes me cringe at the thought that Grunfeld traded the No. 5 pick to rent 2 players for a year. What a disaster. Hopefully, Leonsis fires him on his first day owning the team.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | April 6, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

""However, a team source told Michael Lee that it is unlikely that the Wizards would retain Foye at the price of his qualifying offer,""

There's a pretty good chance we could lose
Foye and Miller and have nothing to show for last year's fifth pick? Say it ain't so!

Posted by: gimmedat | April 6, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Both Foye and Miller are not keepers. I am sure that deal had Flip Saunders input all over it.

It has worked out to be a bad deal. Woundn't waist anymore time with them, but I hope Ted says no on Miller, cause I think left to Flip, Miller stays.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 6, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

You know I think that there are a lot of you that blog here are not basketball aficionados.

Why?

There was quite a bit of action on the sister football site about the NCAA championship game and none here.

I find that rather interesting.

Why even, there was even a connection between the Wizards organization and Nolin Smith of Duke.

Derek Smith, a past assistant for Wizards is his father. Derek Smith passed away whilst being employed by the Team.

I kept checking in hear to see if there was any interest from all of you guru's about the game, but all the interest was on the Football site.

And the Redskins have news to talk about, but a lot of he bloggers blogged about the game as well.

Whats up with that, Wizard Fans/Bloggers?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 6, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

You know I think that there are a lot of you that blog here are not basketball aficionados.

Why?

There was quite a bit of action on the sister football site about the NCAA championship game and none here.

I find that rather interesting.

Why even, there was even a connection between the Wizards organization and Nolin Smith of Duke.

Derek Smith, a past assistant for Wizards is his father. Derek Smith passed away whilst being employed by the Team.

I kept checking in hear to see if there was any interest from all of you guru's about the game, but all the interest was on the Football site.

And the Redskins have news to talk about, but a lot of he bloggers blogged about the game as well.

Whats up with that, Wizard Fans/Bloggers?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 6, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

You know I think that there are a lot of you that blog here are not basketball aficionados.

Why?

There was quite a bit of action on the sister football site about the NCAA championship game and none here.

I find that rather interesting.

Why even, there was even a connection between the Wizards organization and Nolin Smith of Duke.

Derek Smith, a past assistant for Wizards is his father. Derek Smith passed away whilst being employed by the Team.

I kept checking in hear to see if there was any interest from all of you guru's about the game, but all the interest was on the Football site.

And the Redskins have news to talk about, but a lot of the bloggers blogged about the game as well.

Whats up with that, Wizard Fans/Bloggers?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 6, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I would consider re-signing both Foye and Josh Howard for LESS than their current contracts though.

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I would consider re-signing both Foye and Josh Howard for LESS than their current contracts though.

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I would consider re-signing both Foye and Josh Howard for LESS than their current contracts though.

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

"Could have had Stephan Curry or Brandon Jennings on a rookie contract."

Remember EVERYONE wanted Ricky Rubio. There would have been an uproar if Ernie didn't take Rubio with the fifth pick. So dreaming about Jennings and Curry in hindsight is ridiculous. NOW of course that looks like the right move. Now that those guys have proven they are good and the Wizards season was a disaster. After we traded away all of our best players for scraps and started rebuilding of course it would be nice to have one of the guys vying for rookie of the year. But at the time most people liked the trade (only those that wanted Rubio complained), we got two veterans one with potential. Both were ready to contribute and the trade made a lot of NBA analysts put the Wizards in the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference.

Of course we all know how it worked out. But between having the rights to Ricky Rubio and giving one last go at the "Big Three" Wizards with a deep bench and some veteran players and a lot of talent. I still think it was the right move for what we knew before the season.

Posted by: mjshabba | April 6, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

In hindsight, last years draft was a complete waste and the potential was great.

Can you imagine a Wizards team with Stephen Curry and DeJuan Blair!

Ernie brought in Miller and Foye because he and many thought that the Wiz with the big 3 returning, would be ready for a championship run and 2 veterans could put us over the top, didn't happen, not even close.

I wish Gilbert would have brought the guns in the locker room last year so we could have blown it up sooner.

Posted by: zxhoya | April 6, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

At the time I was definitely in favor of the trade, I was not a Rubio fan. My biggest disappointment was us passing over Blair, exactly the kind of player we needed.

As far as resigning Foye, I could take him or leave him. He is a tweener who struggles at the point but is too small to be starting 2.

There is no reason for Miller to stay considering he could help a playoff team, why would he stay.

Hindsight is 20/20

Posted by: zxhoya | April 6, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse


Yes I would rather have Curry also but to say the Wizards get "nothing" if they both walk would not be accurate. If what I read elsewhere is correct Songaila has a 4.8 mil player option for next year. Anybody want Songaila for 4.8? If that extra 4.8 mil helps get a player for the Wiz then it is not "nothing."

Posted by: realwizfan | April 6, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I would consider re-signing both Foye and Josh Howard for LESS than their current contracts though.

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

So, G-Man11, would you consider signing Foye and Howard for less than than their current contracts? (Sorry, couldn't resist).

I'd think about keeping Foye to add some backcourt depth, but I can't see a reason to spend any money on Howard. The Wiz will be a ground floor rebuilding team next season. Howard is 30 years old coming off an injury that'll probably take him all season to fully heal from. Even if he is cleared to play at some point next season, he won't be close to 100%. (Just look at how he struggled this year in Dallas coming off a much less serious injury.) He provides no real short- or long-term value. Better to spend that money/roster spot on someone who will (A) be in a position to contribute the entire season next year and (B) may be part of the long-term plan.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Ernie gambled last year's 5th pick and lost. I understand why he did it but in hindsight, he should have considered the fact that Miller is unrestricted after this year. Foye is restricted.
Posted by: G-Man11

Ernie really did not gamble the pick at all. The trade was made based on the fact that ownership decided they did not want and will not pay anymore luxury tax than they already were paying. If they would have landed the #1 pick, Ernie probably would have convinced Abe that Blake Griffin is worth the trouble.

That was the main motivating factor accompanied by a franchise philosophy that overestimated the Big Three and de- values the draft. Not that that hasn't been said many times before on here.

Posted by: millineumman | April 6, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

as a wizards fan...it would be best if the wizards lost today...which would allow them to have the 3rd best lottery position

Posted by: jasonma1 | April 6, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

"Could have had Stephan Curry or Brandon Jennings on a rookie contract."

Remember EVERYONE wanted Ricky Rubio. There would have been an uproar if Ernie didn't take Rubio with the fifth pick. So dreaming about Jennings and Curry in hindsight is ridiculous. Of course we all know how it worked out. But between having the rights to Ricky Rubio and giving one last go at the "Big Three" Wizards with a deep bench and some veteran players and a lot of talent. I still think it was the right move for what we knew before the season.


Posted by: mjshabba

I understand that and somewhat agree. But my premise was that, Miller had 1 year left and was un-restricted. Would he have come back if the past season went better? Who knows. But he ain't coming back now.

And Foye had proven little and was restricted after the current year so you got to make a decision whether to re-sign him. What has he proven this year? Little.

Ernie's job is to do what's best for the wizards for now and the future. He is paid to evaluate talent. A top 5 pick in the NBA is a lot to gamble and come up with nothing.

Rubio, they don't have him either, by the way. If Miller leaves and Foye is not re-signed, you still can't hope like Minnesota, that Rubio will come over and sign here.

The Wiz at that point will have salary cap space and that's about it gained for the 5th pick. That don't cut it no matter how you slice it!

You can blow late first round picks (Young, Pech) and second rounders (the other russian who still hasn't signed, or trading the pick to the Spurs last year). You can blow even late lotto picks like Jeffries and Jarvis, but you don't get a pass for blowing a top 5 pick in my book.

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"Ernie gambled last year's 5th pick and lost. I understand why he did it but in hindsight, he should have considered the fact that Miller is unrestricted after this year. Foye is restricted."

I'm 100% certain that Grunfeld was fully aware of Miller and Foye's FA status when he made the deal.

Given what the team's mandate was at the time (whether that mandate was feasible or not is another question) the trade made sense when it was made. Everyone's complaining about how the Wizards could have had Curry or Jennings, but at the time it was Ricky Rubio (who hasn't even set foot on U.S. soil since the draft, let alone played a nanosecond of NBA ball) that everyone was bemoaning the loss of.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"Can you imagine a Wizards team with Stephen Curry and DeJuan Blair!"

Yeah. I imagine it would be pretty much just as bad as this one.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

i've been on record from Day1 saying Rubio is a complete fraud, so dont count me amongst those who bemoaned his loss. He wont do squat in the nba.

The trade didnt work out, but that doesnt mean it wasnt a good idea at the time based upon assumptions about what the team was.

Miller is leaving and he's a marginal-at-best player now, so we dont want him back anyway.

As for Foye, glad to see EG doesnt care about keeping him simply to save face for last year's trade.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"41 free NBA games, free grub in the media area, access to some of the best athletes in the world, monetary compensation, oh yeah my heart bleeds for mike lee and his Insider info.LLSPosted by: lilhollywood10"

You forget that those are Wiz games -- a fate worse nor death.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

As for Foye, glad to see EG doesnt care about keeping him simply to save face for last year's trade.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 1:20 PM

Agreed. All year I've been riding Ernie pretty hard (rephrase?), but I'll give him credit for not compounding his mistake from the Lake. Kevin McHale and Grunfeld both saw something in this guy and for the life of me I can't figure out what it is.
I don't like Foye as a back-up PG or SG.

Posted by: artiesliver | April 6, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Curry and Jennings are good players who will have productive NBA careers, maybe even play in some all-star games. but neither is a franchise changing talent and both play the same position as the guy who was (at the time) the closest thing the Wizards had to a franchise player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

but you don't get a pass for blowing a top 5 pick in my book.

Posted by: G-Man11

So just to be clear, we are firing Ernie (trading the 5), Chris Wallace (blowing the #2 on Thabeet), Pat Riley (Michael Beasley at #2), Kevin Pritchard (Oden #1 over Durant), the Bulls GM (Thomas for Aldridge swap - though Pritchard engineered that), Michael Jordan (Adam Morrison at #3, Kwame at #1), the Hawks GM (Shelden Williams at #5), the Raptors GM (Bargnani at #1 over Aldridge and Roy), Joe Dumars (Donnie Darko at #2 in the most top-heavy draft of the past decade)....and on and on and on.

Point being, teams make mistakes at even the top picks all of the time. EG took a calculated risk, and it back fired. He traded a scrap-heap player and two ok guys with bad contracts plus the pick for two reasonably young vets who were supposed to help get us over the hump. To say Foye hasn't done anything does him a disservice. He hasn't blown up, but he has been a productive pro. He's just not cut out to be the #1 guy in Flip's system. He wasn't ever supposed to be. He was supposed to be the #2 guy to take some of the pressure off of GA. Miller was supposed to be the #4 option who could knock down open 3s. It didn't work. Everyone should quit cryin about it and let's move on. On the one hand, we may end up with essentially no assets for trading the 5 pick....on the other, we're not locked into paying players who may not fit going forward.

I'm sure Ted will take it all into consideration when deciding who stays and who goes this summer.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

The Zards are in a strong position. Near the top of the league in CAP room, top3 pick on the way (hopefully), AB showing legit All-Star level play, and GA coming back in one form or another that should still constitute a major upgrade at PG.

.500 gets you in the postseason in the East and there's absolutely no reason the bar shouldnt be set at least that high for next season.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

.500 gets you in the postseason in the East and there's absolutely no reason the bar shouldnt be set at least that high for next season.

Posted by: divi3

There's actually one very compelling reason for not setting the bar that high. Because it may lead the team into making short-term moves in order to get to .500 instead of doing the long-term moves needed to develop a winning franchise.

I know you weren't advocating for short-term moves, but it's the same kind of thinking the Wiz seem to fall into of going for quicker fixes instead of building the foundation.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

well, we are going to have to sign a slew of players just based on everyone leaving. I'm saying that the talent on the roster, plus a top3 pick, plus Gil, plus some reasonable FA acquisitions makes for a .500 team in the East (i would hope)

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

".500 gets you in the postseason in the East and there's absolutely no reason the bar shouldnt be set at least that high for next season."

There are many reasons the bar shouldn't be set that high, the biggest being that we shouldn't be concentrating on quick fixes.

Posted by: nmik | April 6, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

But if you look at teams on the rise, it's never the teams that are at .500 that move forward, unless they already have their singular talent, like a LeBron or a Kobe. For the rest of the league, usually you have to stink for two or three years to get two or three good young players and then start filling in with reasonable FAs.

I guess it depends on our goals. If we're just trying to be one of the teams that hangs around every year, making the playoffs but not doing much else, then that plan probably works, especially in the East. If the plan is to build towards a championship, then they are probably better off not getting to .500 next year. At much as it sucks, another year like this year probably serves them better long-term than getting to .500 does.

If they can sign a significant FA this summer, great, if not, I would prefer they not lock themselves into three year deals with a bunch of average guys just to get to .500

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"There's actually one very compelling reason for not setting the bar that high. Because it may lead the team into making short-term moves in order to get to .500 instead of doing the long-term moves needed to develop a winning franchise."

Otherwise known as the Snyder Strategy.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"If they can sign a significant FA this summer, great, if not, I would prefer they not lock themselves into three year deals with a bunch of average guys just to get to .500"

Agreed.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

"well, we are going to have to sign a slew of players just based on everyone leaving. I'm saying that the talent on the roster, plus a top3 pick, plus Gil, plus some reasonable FA acquisitions makes for a .500 team in the East (i would hope)"

That sounds eerily similar to the situation the Pistons were in this past offseason. They had some proven vets, a couple of young talents, and lots of cap space. Rather than hold out and pace themselves in pursuit of a measured rebuild, even if it meant a short-term decline, they opted to retool on the fly. As a result, they blew their wad on two decent, non-impact FA talents who didn't pan out. Now they're capped out with a bad mix of players and in an even deeper hole than they started.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I dont see any reason the team needs to stink for a few years to achieve some goals in the future. I'm not talking about quick fixes, I'm talking about the talent in place plus the right lotto pick making this a .500 caliber team without signing Joe Johnson (or whomever).

And lest I forget, we're supposed to have a top flight coach right? That's gotta count for something too?

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I dont think "reasonable" applies to the contracts given Gordon and Villaegghead. 5yrs/$85mill between the 2 of them I think

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

That sounds eerily similar to the situation the Pistons were in this past offseason. They had some proven vets, a couple of young talents, and lots of cap space. Rather than hold out and pace themselves in pursuit of a measured rebuild, even if it meant a short-term decline, they opted to retool on the fly. As a result, they blew their wad on two decent, non-impact FA talents who didn't pan out. Now they're capped out with a bad mix of players and in an even deeper hole than they started.

Posted by: kalo_rama

Thank you,
Throughout the season we have read people object to starting over under the logic that " None of the top FA's will come here"
Nor are we selling that illusion. If the right player at the right value is there, then go for it. If not, do not just sign someone to appease public oppinion. I know we suck, but that might have to be sacrifice needed. With a wise and fortunate draft, DC won't be the basketball graveyard people think and rebuilding won't have to be as long as some expect.

Posted by: millineumman | April 6, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"I dont see any reason the team needs to stink for a few years to achieve some goals in the future. I'm not talking about quick fixes, I'm talking about the talent in place plus the right lotto pick making this a .500 caliber team without signing Joe Johnson (or whomever)."

And if they can't sing a big-time impact player, realistically the most likely way to do that (given where the Wizards are starting from) is to sign the kind of proven veteran players (like Josh Howard) who can provide a quick talent infusion but who aren't real impact makers or game changers. Which is very much a short-term fix.

The smart way to do it is to acquire young, up-and-coming talent (either through draft or FA) and let that talent grow and develop together. That takes time and usually means absorbing some down years. It's how the Hawks did it, it's how the Blazers did it, it's how the Thunder did it, it's how the Grizzlies did it. After some lean years their patience is paying dividends. It's the smart way to go.

"And lest I forget, we're supposed to have a top flight coach right? That's gotta count for something too?"

Sure, as long as he has the right players.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

I didn't have a problem with the trade for Foye/Miller, though I posted my desire for drafting Tyreke Evans.

Of course, Evans was gone by the fifth pick. So considering The Zards were going to attempt another run with the "Big 3" I believed the trade made sense.

Well it didn't work. That's OK. Because The Zards didn't have to take on any long term contracts.

Soon this franchise will be under new management. I'm happy that Leonsis will have greater flexibility to remake this team.

Posted by: bozomoeman | April 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

but you don't get a pass for blowing a top 5 pick in my book.

Posted by: G-Man11

So just to be clear, we are firing Ernie (trading the 5), Chris Wallace (blowing the #2 on Thabeet), Pat Riley (Michael Beasley at #2), Kevin Pritchard (Oden #1 over Durant), the Bulls GM (Thomas for Aldridge swap - though Pritchard engineered that), Michael Jordan (Adam Morrison at #3, Kwame at #1), the Hawks GM (Shelden Williams at #5), the Raptors GM (Bargnani at #1 over Aldridge and Roy), Joe Dumars (Donnie Darko at #2 in the most top-heavy draft of the past decade)....and on and on and on.

Rookies don't pan out. It is too early to tell with Beasley, Thabeet, and others. Give me a break with Oden. I do have a problem with the Aldridge for TyThomas swap. Some of the others you mentioned I don't agree with either, but those are rookies and some still have time to pan out. Injuries happen. I don't blame the GM for that. You gave up the 5th pick for $$$ savings on bad contracts, and two 1-year contracts for vets who are already established. The Redskins didn't trade the #4 pick for McNabb did they? They traded a 2nd and 3rd or 4th. I would rather still have Etan and Songaila if that was the main reason for trading away a top 5 pick, cause in the end, that is all you gonna show for it, getting rid of Etan and Songaila.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 1:49 PM

Then what does Foye want to re-sign?

Posted by: G-Man11 | April 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya, divi, but the question comes down to what constitutes 'reasonable' free agents, and how much do they end up costing you?

Not saying these two guys specifically, but say signing guys like Foye and Miller at reasonable rates....something like 4-5 mil each for 3 years, and there goes 8-10 mil of cap space for three years in the name of reaching .500

AB plus JM plus AT plus QR plus SL (if they sign him) plus JS (if they sign him) plus the lotto pick of your choice does not equal .500. Maybe, just maybe it works if they don't opt out of Howard's contract (and he stays healthy and productive, super-sized IFs) and instead keep an eye on cap space for '11/'12

If you can find examples that support your case, I'm all ears (eyes?) I'm looking at the young teams on the rise like Portland and OKC, who struggled for a long time and had to keep churning reasonable assets over in order to get better ones.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

"Remember EVERYONE wanted Ricky Rubio. There would have been an uproar if Ernie didn't take Rubio with the fifth pick. So dreaming about Jennings and Curry in hindsight is ridiculous."

Untrue. In fact, Jennings was forthright in his criticism of Rubio based on his experience in Europe. Rubio had been ranked the third best player in the class (that was back when people thought Thabeet would be better), and he actually fell a little.

It was a strange draft class. Curry in particular is something of a mystery. A wonderful shooter and a favorite of Don Nelson's, but I don't know if you can compare him with Evans the power player and Jennings the jet.

Jennings started fast, cooled down considerably, then was rejuvenated by the acquisition of Salmons. If I had a crystal ball, I'd predict Jennings comes back to the pack a little next season, eventually settling into the role of off-the-bench scorer.

Evans is the better player. But his game has a handicap too -- he's just not a real good jump shooter. As teams begin to take away his penetration, he'll either need to sink those shots or see his average fall.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

That's true about Evens. But, at the same time, of all the weaknesses to be found among the PGs in this draft, his is among the easiest to correct. It's a lot easier to learn to hit a jumper than it is to get taller, faster, or stronger.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Rookies don't pan out. It is too early to tell with Beasley, Thabeet, and others. Give me a break with Oden. I do have a problem with the Aldridge for TyThomas swap. Some of the others you mentioned I don't agree with either, but those are rookies and some still have time to pan out. Injuries happen. I don't blame the GM for that. You gave up the 5th pick for $$$ savings on bad contracts, and two 1-year contracts for vets who are already established. The Redskins didn't trade the #4 pick for McNabb did they? They traded a 2nd and 3rd or 4th. I would rather still have Etan and Songaila if that was the main reason for trading away a top 5 pick, cause in the end, that is all you gonna show for it, getting rid of Etan and Songaila.

Posted by: G-Man11

First of all, NFL trades to NBA trades are seriously apples to oranges.

If you want to get into the merits of drafting Thabeet, Oden and Beasley, happy to do that. But it misses the overall point. You said it yourself, rookies don't pan out. So EG was trying to trade the risk inherent in a draft pick -- and acquiring another young player for a team that was relying on too many already on its bench -- for established players for depth in order to make a playoff run.

You can say he was f'ing delusional about the team he had, and I won't disagree at all. But in the context of what he was trying to accomplish, the trade makes sense. And ironically, it ultimately serves the team better now, because it helped to clear the way for the roster almost-purge that was needed all along.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

I'm talking about an FA like Udonis Haslem, not Boozer.

Point being, seems there is talk like we need to stink for several season collecting lotto balls to try rebuild with young players. Hello...AB is 23, JM is 22, and a top pick from this year's draft is on the way.

How many players on the Hawks roster did they draft? Horford and JSmith, and who else? Was Joe Johnson a draft day trade with Suns?

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Evans is the better player. But his game has a handicap too -- he's just not a real good jump shooter. As teams begin to take away his penetration, he'll either need to sink those shots or see his average fall.

Posted by: Samson151

Shooting a better J will ultimately help his game, but in terms of the rest.....teams have already adjusted and he's still averaging 20 a game. The most striking characteristic of his game coming out of college, was his ability to get wherever he wants to on the floor. Given his quickness, size and strength and passing ability, the only thing that has slowed him down this year is injury.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"I'm talking about an FA like Udonis Haslem, not Boozer."

Well, that really doesn't help your argument. Haslem is a guy who looks good next to talent, but he's not going to make the difference between the lottery and the playoffs on a team like the Wizards.

"How many players on the Hawks roster did they draft?"

It doesn't matter if they drafted them, traded for them, or signed them as FAs.The point is, they acquired young talent that had potential but had yet to peak and let it develop together over time. That's a better strategy than spending money on middling FAs in a quick strike attempt at a first round playoff exit.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

You're missing my point entirely. I'm not saying the Wizards should focus on trying to make the postseason, I am saying that with the talent on the roster, plus the lotto pick, and player(s) like Haslem- they're already a .500ish team in the East.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"You're missing my point entirely. I'm not saying the Wizards should focus on trying to make the postseason, I am saying that with the talent on the roster, plus the lotto pick, and player(s) like Haslem- they're already a .500ish team in the East."

I'm not missing your point, at all. I'm simply pointing out that your point has no merit.

The Wizards, as currently constructed, as a 25 win team (maybe). Haslem and a rookie are not going to account for a 20-win boost. That's insane wishful thinking. And given that he'll have marginal impact on winning, spending FA money on a 30-year-old role player makes no sense, doesn't matter if it's Haslem or Mike Miller.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Unless, of course, they're signed to a 1-year deal for the vet minimum/LLE. In that case, fine. But there's not chance in hell Haslem would sign here for that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Unless, of course, they're signed to a 1-year deal for the vet minimum/LLE. In that case, fine. But there's not chance in hell Haslem would sign here for that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

You're missing my point entirely. I'm not saying the Wizards should focus on trying to make the postseason, I am saying that with the talent on the roster, plus the lotto pick, and player(s) like Haslem- they're already a .500ish team in the East.
Posted by: divi3

But the point you're not answering divi is, how much do you pay guys like Haslem and over how many years and how does that affect the long term development of the team? Why sign a 30 year old guy like Haslem?

The Hawks stunk for many years and preserved their cap space. Signing Joe Johnson was the start, but they didn't try to load up around him. If they hadn't completely botched two of those drafts (picking Shelden Williams in '06 and Marvin Williams over Deron Williams or CP3 in '05) they would be championship contenders instead of a tier 2 team who has to reach on guys like Bibby and Crawford to try to get over the top.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

It is astonish actually, how good the Hawks could be if they hadn't botched just one of those drafts.

They were like the Detroit Lions with WRs. They kept drafting PF after PF after PF (Smith, Childress, Williams, Williams, Horford)

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

The situation of AF and MM will remain to take us back to last season lotery decision.I am happy EG is moving on,not considering to retain AF just to treat his ego.If he would have retained the pick we would have an other 23 wins season next season.It is fine to have a non playoff season in a rebuilding mode but very hard when you have the so called big 3.
According to my personal retrospective look which i could be wrong to 50% of you, EG did a perfect job to clear his mistake just in one season.If Sangalia,thomas and the other bench warmer were not gone in summer trade,we would have been stalked with CB,AJ,DS and Sangalia in 2010-11 season.In the presence of the above players we would not have the chance to see what AB has as a potential.This kid if he has a good psychologist and he decide to mature he will be the top 10 PF in NBA.If the 23 million salary cup is going to be used bravely,the transition is going to be fast,exiting and promising.Hopefully washington will not repeat what the detroit piston did this past summer.They need to pick the right talent or continue to rebuild with the avaliable roster.Some one is recommending derick fisher and boozer,why?
fisher is not going to be a starting PG for us,Boozer will retard the progress of AB plus he is injury prone,he basicaly play every other year.

Posted by: gtefferra | April 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

If Arenas gets back to some semblance of form, it wont take much at all to compete with the likes of this year's Bulls squad....a .500 team

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Trading the #5 pick wasn't about picking up Foye and Miller. It was about getting rid of Thomas, Songalia, and Pecherov. The team shed salary for this year and next year, and this helped them get under the salary cap. We're the new Phoenix Suns, except we don't have Nash, Amare, or run n' gun.

Imagine that we could be building a team around Rubio and this year's top 5 pick. Sad.

Posted by: Dellis2 | April 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Johnson was also a sign-and-trade which mitigated his cap impact.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Imagine that we could be building a team around Rubio and this year's top 5 pick. Sad.

Posted by: Dellis2

Which would be awesome if we were playing in the Spanish League.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Imagine that we could be building a team around Rubio and this year's top 5 pick. Sad.

Posted by: Dellis2

Which would be awesome if we were playing in the Spanish League.

Posted by: ts35

Where we would finish fourth.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Build a team around Rubio? You mean the guy who explicitly said he did not want to play in washington because arenas would hog the minutes. Also you would be building around a player that would not be here until 3 years later. I think the 5th pick was a no win situation. Griffin and Evans were gone, Curry and Jennings would not have gotten minutes on Washington so they would not get noticed. Also how would a rookie convince Gilbert and Crittenton not to play a game of booray together? You can think about coulda shoulda woulda or you can think in the present and what we are going to do.

Posted by: jefferu | April 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

"But the point you're not answering divi is, how much do you pay guys like Haslem and over how many years and how does that affect the long term development of the team? Why sign a 30 year old guy like Haslem?"

What development exactly? I would think even ABs biggest detractors must admit at the very least we arent looking to upgrade at PF. Let's say we draft Evan Turner...there's your #2 correct? Arenas is on the team. JM is your developing #5, and you can sign a DJ Mbenga as next years Oberto but actually big and strong.

The point I'm trying to make, is we have young players and CAP room already, plus a top3 pick coming in. If, BIG IF, our pick pans out and JM develops measurably next year...I dont see how that's not a .500 club in the East. And a young one that would be getting better.

Of course, I think AB will play like an All-Star next season, and that's a big part of my equation

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"If Arenas gets back to some semblance of form, it wont take much at all to compete with the likes of this year's Bulls squad....a .500 team"

(A) The Bulls are not at .500 yet and aren't guaranteed to get there with 6 games remaining (B) Even if they do, that won't automatically get them into the playoffs (they're currently in 9th place).

A .500 record is not some kind of holy grail. if they get there fine. but they should not be making moves with that in mind. And without that, there's no good reason to spend money on a guy like Haslem.

And even if Arenas is back and playing well, it'll take a lot more than Haslem and an unproven rook to turn this into a .500 team.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

The Hawks have made a ton of mistakes. Johnson was acquired for 3 #1's and Boris Diaw, which is a lot. Marvin W. was drafted before Deron W. and Chris Paul. Sheldon Williams was drafted in the first round, as was Acie Law, and neither of them are remotely first round talents, much less lottery talents. Even Bibby was a bad trade - but I can't remember the details now. And they have a shyte coach. Point being, you can make a lot of mistakes and still turn out ok.

Posted by: Urnesto | April 6, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Trading the No. 5 pick for Miller and Foye was as much about unloading the horrible contracts of Songaila, Etan, and Pecherov. None were in the teams plans for this year and Songaila has a player option for $4.8M for next year. EG was (a) trying to get two veterans to supplement what he thought was a strong core and (b) rid the Wizards of some bad contracts he had entered into in the past.

Unfortunately, EG's past caught up to his present when the Big 3 imploded and Arenas was suspended for gun charges. On the surface, the trade looked good at the time and most on this blog expected the Wiz to win 50+ games and content in the East. Hindsight being 20-20, the Wiz should have drafted Curry hoping he would become the PG that Arenas never will be.

I'd be shocked if either Miller or Foye was around after being part of the sinking ship this year. Miller has continued to play hard so he has some market value as a FA next season. I'm sure he is counting down the days until the season is over and he can move on to another team. Foye simply isn't worth the tender to be a 3rd guard and has shown he isn't a starting-calibre PG.

Posted by: wizfan89 | April 6, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Everybody can bump their gums about who the Wizards should trade etc.

BUT there are two untouchables in Ernie's mind:

Arenas
Blatche

Those are HIS guys. Short of trading the lottery pick and AB for Stoudemire or Boozer I really don't see Big Ern pulling the trigger on any deal.

Posted by: elfreako | April 6, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

the hawks basically had 2 of their myriad of picks develop. AB is clearly the real deal, so there's one of ours. Maybe JM develops, maybe he doesnt. Maybe our top3 lotto pick develops, maybe he doesnt. But it's not lunacy to think at least one of the two does turn out legit.

given that, why again is it we have to look to the hawks stumbling assbackward into decency as the blueprint for our success?

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

DJ Mbenga? Good God.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"the hawks basically had 2 of their myriad of picks develop. AB is clearly the real deal, so there's one of ours. Maybe JM develops, maybe he doesnt. Maybe our top3 lotto pick develops, maybe he doesnt. But it's not lunacy to think at least one of the two does turn out legit."

No one said it was, did they? I don't believe so. So really, what's the point?

Moving on . . .

Even if they do turn out legit, it's not likely to happen in one fell swoop next season (because right now McGee is far from legit as a starting C and the jury's nowhere close to in on whether Blatcche can and will continue his quality of play when he has to share the spotlight and the shot chart with actual talent).

No one is suggesting that Blatche and McGee be broomed out, so that little rant has no meaning at all. The point is, even if the development continues, the overall talent on this team isn't deep or strong enough that they can legitimately be considered one or two players away from being playoff caliber. And even if they were, that 1 or 2 players would have to bring more than an unproven rookie and a middling role player like Haslem or (dear lord) Mbenga. And, that being the case, signing either of those two to anything other than 1-year minimum deals (which they wouldn't take to come here) makes no sense.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 6, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

The point I'm trying to make, is we have young players and CAP room already, plus a top3 pick coming in. If, BIG IF, our pick pans out and JM develops measurably next year...I dont see how that's not a .500 club in the East. And a young one that would be getting better.

Of course, I think AB will play like an All-Star next season, and that's a big part of my equation

Posted by: divi3

I think that's actually a lot of big IFs stacked on top of one another, which reminds me vaguely of....oh right, the '09/'10 Wizards outlook.

The development where you actually change the character of your team. Bringing in guys who do the things necessary to win championships. Developing a culture of winning. Building a core of young, top caliber talent. And no, AB, JM and NY do not qualify as a core in my book. Being an All-Star is not good enough. AJ, Gil and Caron were all all-stars. Our 'young 3' are ok, but I don't sense the beating heart of champions.

I think we're just going round and round at this point. I think the biggest point of contention is that I don't think they should spend any money on average free agents just to fill out the roster or appease the fans or help get to .500. If they have a shot at one of the top guys who fits in with the goal of winning a championship, great. If they have some young guys they can bring in cheaply and maybe see how they develop (like Livingston), great. But signing mid level guys like Haslem, unless you're bringing them in to be team leaders and confer great knowledge unto the youngsters, doesn't make sense (and Haslem ain't that wise). You're just taking up roster space and cap room better used in other ways.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz are one of four teams in the NBA with 23-24 wins so far this season. So their final record could be anywhere from third-worst to sixth-worst when all is said and done. Ten will get you twenty they go on an insane run to end the season.

Posted by: artiesliver | April 6, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I think it's a good move to have "savy" vets on a young roster rather than a bunch of d-leaguers filling up roster spots. Development is learning, and having solid yet unspectacular vets around helps with that.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

given that, why again is it we have to look to the hawks stumbling assbackward into decency as the blueprint for our success?

Posted by: divi3

Personally I was talking about OKC and Portland. Someone mentioned Atlanta and then you went off on their signing of Joe Johnson as validation of your point of view, then I went off on how they were actually using the plan Kal and I recommend, but they totally blew two drafts in a row and then......yep, nope, no idea why were are talking about Atlanta.

And btw, Urnesto, it was two *conditional* #1s and Diaw for Johnson.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

"No one is suggesting that Blatche and McGee be broomed out, so that little rant has no meaning at all"

As I recall, your little rant was that you wouldnt hesitate to trade them.

"and the jury's nowhere close to in on whether Blatcche can and will continue his quality of play when he has to share the spotlight and the shot chart with actual talent)."

So you feel the exact same way about David Lee and Brooke Lopez right?

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I like AB and hope he plays here next year. He has made some improvement and you can't beat that value for the contract. Even at that we still need a tenacious rebounder (and hopefully a finisher also)even if said player doesn't start.

Posted by: millineumman | April 6, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I think it's a good move to have "savy" vets on a young roster rather than a bunch of d-leaguers filling up roster spots. Development is learning, and having solid yet unspectacular vets around helps with that.

Posted by: divi3

Or you bring in recently retired savvy vets as coaches, like Sam Cassell. They provide the same benefit without affecting your cap.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

any recently retired 6'10" or taller players available to bring in? I'm afraid a 6'6" big man coach may leave something to be desired, no disrespect intended Gene Banks

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

So you feel the exact same way about David Lee and Brooke Lopez right?

Posted by: divi3

I don't know if David Lee or Lopez have had the maturity issues raised the way they have been raised about our youngsters.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

McNabb's in town, he had serious game when he was with the cuse.........i'm just sayin

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Or you bring in recently retired savvy vets as coaches, like Sam Cassell. They provide the same benefit without affecting your cap.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

we know how that worked out this year

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

any recently retired 6'10" or taller players available to bring in? I'm afraid a 6'6" big man coach may leave something to be desired, no disrespect intended Gene Banks

Posted by: divi3

I haven't sat in with Gene on a session so no idea how good of a coach he is or isn't. But making sure they have at least one good big man coach would definitely be a priority under the ts35 regime.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Or you bring in recently retired savvy vets as coaches, like Sam Cassell. They provide the same benefit without affecting your cap.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

we know how that worked out this year

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Great! AB has developed into a triple double threat under Cassell's tutelage!

Any other random, unanswerable questions?

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if David Lee or Lopez have had the maturity issues raised the way they have been raised about our youngsters.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:31 PM

No doubt, my point is they produce for bad teams and therefore their production should be suspect to anyone who thinks ABs numbers are just the "somebody's gotta produce" effect.

Lopez is on the single worst team in the entire league afterall.

for the record, I dont feel this way about Lopez or Lee, just making the corollary for AB's skeptics

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

FOYE's too expensive to sign at 80% of scale? Wow. Not playing GM any more. I leave it up to the owners from here on out.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 6, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

btw, CB is back to his 3-15 ways and BTH has lost his starting gig to Dampier. AJ is playing fine, but looks like he's barely keeping up with the quality the Cavs expect.

I'm not sure we realize just how bad that trio was, and how little it will take to surpass it.

*and i'm an avowed AJ guy

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Great! AB has developed into a triple double threat under Cassell's tutelage!

Any other random, unanswerable questions?

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

a guy projected out of HS as a KG clone develops into a triple double threat in less than a full season under the tutelage of a pg (yes hakeem's PG, but come on). Sheesh you'd think he'd impart some of that kenny the jet, mario elie, carlos herrera, mad maxwell wisdom on at least one of the guards that floundered all season here. that's right he was to bust playing booray.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

good stuff divi3

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

come on now, y'all know nobody can listen to sam i am after about 10secs. dude talks at the players NONSTOP, probably sounds like a gnat in their ears at this point.

hilarious to watch guys avoid Flip and then go full round-the-world route to get to end of bench without hearing Cassel

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Great! AB has developed into a triple double threat under Cassell's tutelage!

Any other random, unanswerable questions?

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

a guy projected out of HS as a KG clone develops into a triple double threat in less than a full season under the tutelage of a pg (yes hakeem's PG, but come on). Sheesh you'd think he'd impart some of that kenny the jet, mario elie, carlos herrera, mad maxwell wisdom on at least one of the guards that floundered all season here. that's right he was to bust playing booray.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

The question you need to ask lil, is how bad would it be without Sam Cassell??

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Great! AB has developed into a triple double threat under Cassell's tutelage!

Any other random, unanswerable questions?

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

a guy projected out of HS as a KG clone develops into a triple double threat in less than a full season under the tutelage of a pg (yes hakeem's PG, but come on). Sheesh you'd think he'd impart some of that kenny the jet, mario elie, carlos herrera, mad maxwell wisdom on at least one of the guards that floundered all season here. that's right he was to bust playing booray.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

The question you need to ask lil, is how bad would it be without Sam Cassell??

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

btw, CB is back to his 3-15 ways and BTH has lost his starting gig to Dampier. AJ is playing fine, but looks like he's barely keeping up with the quality the Cavs expect.

I'm not sure we realize just how bad that trio was, and how little it will take to surpass it.


Some did, but they got called fake fans. LOL

Posted by: millineumman | April 6, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

hilarious to watch guys avoid Flip and then go full round-the-world route to get to end of bench without hearing Cassel

Posted by: divi3

Yep, because why would they want to listen to a starter on two championship teams and who was in numerous playoff battles?

And yet, we're one draft pick and DJ Mbenga away from .500 =)

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

always knew BTH was a sucker, and i realized that CB permanently blew his wad when he dropped 40 for his homies 2yrs ago....but I really did not think AB would be better than AJ, and as far as I can tell there's no doubt he is.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

but I really did not think AB would be better than AJ, and as far as I can tell there's no doubt he is.

Posted by: divi3

When he plays 35+ mins x 80 games a year and averages 20 / 10 for more than a minute, then you can say there's no doubt.

Plus, those two could star in an All-Star game skills challenge in forgetting to box out for rebounds.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

tonight should be fun. I can see both AB and JM having nice nights, but also gassing out pretty early as both look like graduates from Fat Al Haynesorth's school of conditioning

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

good stuff divi3

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Yep, because why would they want to listen to a starter on two championship teams and who was in numerous playoff battles?

And yet, we're one draft pick and DJ Mbenga away from .500 =)

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse


yeah and he's only helped us get to 22 wins. I think at some point this season his "street cred"ran out. Prolly around the all star break when the team was blown up. I'm sure he can drop some knowledge on the youngins, but the fact that he's been (supposedly) instrumental in AB's development, and had done NOTHING to get the guards going is troubling to me. He played the position. I also felt like he would be a good liason b/w the older more experienced coaches and the players, but once again, aside from AB i don't know that to be true.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | April 6, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

yeah and he's only helped us get to 22 wins. I think at some point this season his "street cred"ran out. Prolly around the all star break when the team was blown up. I'm sure he can drop some knowledge on the youngins, but the fact that he's been (supposedly) instrumental in AB's development, and had done NOTHING to get the guards going is troubling to me. He played the position. I also felt like he would be a good liason b/w the older more experienced coaches and the players, but once again, aside from AB i don't know that to be true.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Um, you know I was kidding about Sam getting AB to the triple double level right? My point was that we have zero idea of what impact Sam has had. Number one, players have to be open to listening. Two, he might have had positive (or negative I suppose) impact that hasn't shown up on the floor yet. Three, how much effect can he have when the guys he's talking to aren't as talented as the guys on the other team? If you're asking why Sam hasn't turned Foye into an all-star, the most immediate answer is, um, because he's not that good?

But if divi's idea (and it's a reasonable one) is to have solid vets on the team to impart wisdom, you can just as easily do that with retired vets as coaches. All teams have at least one or two of those guys. It's how most of the players who became coaches got their start.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

really too bad Zo is chillin and grillin these days, even just a couple weeks of beating up AB/JM could help them out.

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

How about Anthony Mason? He could impart a little tough guy knowledge to AB and JM, and give Nick new ideas for shaving stuff in his 'do.

Posted by: ts35 | April 6, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

for some reason i envision mace at about 450lb these days, worth it though, if even just for the 'do consulting

Posted by: divi3 | April 6, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

"hilarious to watch guys avoid Flip and then go full round-the-world route to get to end of bench without hearing Cassel"

Posted by: divi3


And some of us wonder what's wrong with out team?

Posted by: nmik | April 6, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse

"Shooting a better J will ultimately help his game, but in terms of the rest.....teams have already adjusted and he's still averaging 20 a game. The most striking characteristic of his game coming out of college, was his ability to get wherever he wants to on the floor. Given his quickness, size and strength and passing ability, the only thing that has slowed him down this year is injury. Posted by: ts35"

See, I don't think teams have adjusted completely yet, simply because it's the first year they've seen him, and it's hard to believe how strong he is until you've experienced it in the flesh. His overall FG% is a healthy 45.6%, but he's inept from the arc (26%) and the one recent game I saw he finished 2 for 12 largely because the opponent wouldn't let him get to his spot. I'm sure injury has something to do with it, but the last 3 games, all losses, suggested to me a player that needed to be able to pull up and shoot accurately.

Don't get me wrong -- he's a phenomenal talent. But he plays on a weak team and you can usually take any player out of a game if you devote your defense to the task. Even LeBron.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

"btw, CB is back to his 3-15 ways and BTH has lost his starting gig to Dampier. AJ is playing fine, but looks like he's barely keeping up with the quality the Cavs expect. I'm not sure we realize just how bad that trio was, and how little it will take to surpass it. Some did, but they got called fake fans. LOLPosted by: millineumman '

Hate to interrupt your gloating, but it's a bit premature. There wasn't much justification for the criticism those three guys got in Washington, and there's even less now that they're on other clubs. When Tyreke Evans goes 6 for 17 and 2 for 12 on successive nights, we don't call him a failure; neither should we for any NBA player.

Think instead about how little we got for those three.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

AB plus JM plus AT plus QR plus SL (if they sign him) plus JS (if they sign him) plus...

------------------------

Dude. That's just unfair to use that many initials when half the has been playing for just a couple weeks:)

I had to look up Al Thornton because i forgot about him with his injury taking him out.

Posted by: crs-1 | April 6, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

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