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Ted Leonsis officially owner of the Wizards


Welcome to my home. (Getty Images)


For the first time in nearly 46 years, someone other than the Pollin family will own the franchise currently known as the Washington Wizards. The NBA Board of Governors on Tuesday unanimously approved the sale of the Washington Wizards to Ted Leonsis's Lincoln Holdings, completing a transition that has been in the works for several months.

"We are pleased that the NBA's Board of Governors has approved Ted Leonsis's purchase of majority ownership of the Wizards from the Pollin family," said NBA Commissioner David Stern. "The transaction signifies the end of an era and a passing of the torch into very capable hands. We have long admired what Ted has done with the Washington Capitals in terms of sales, marketing and outreach in the community, and we look forward to him bringing those skills to bear for the Wizards."

Leonsis reached an agreement with the Pollin family on May 1 to purchase the remaining 56 percent of the Wizards and Verizon Center that he did not own. The timing of the move allows Leonsis to have influence over player selection in the June 24 NBA draft and the free agent signing period, which begins on July 1.

The Wizards are looking to turnaround after a difficult period for the franchise and recently won the No. 1 overall pick in draft, expected to be Kentucky freshman John Wall. They also have nearly $20 million in cap space this summer.

The league had already vetted Leonsis when he purchased the Washington Capitals and a 44 percent stake in Washington Sports and Entertainment from the late Abe Pollin in 1999. Pollin died of a rare brain disease on Nov. 24 and the franchise had been in a trust run by his widow, Irene, and their sons, Robert and Jim.

Leonsis met with Stern and other NBA officials the morning of the draft lottery and expressed his excitement about taking over for the Pollins while acknowledging their impact on the District. "I hope to pay appropriate homage to that legacy while still trying to create my own way," Leonsis said of Pollin.

He also said his passion for basketball began as a child in Brooklyn, N.Y. "I grew up playing basketball. I grew up a Knicks fan. I grew up in the good days when the Knicks were fantastic at fundamental basketball and winning championships," Leonsis said last month. "I'm ready. I'm really psyched for the opportunity."

By Michael Lee  |  June 8, 2010; 11:57 AM ET
 
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Comments

Official Wizards front office announcements to follow.

Sorry, closg.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 8, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

*wink*

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 8, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I think Ted needs to give a "State of the Union" address regarding the wizards and if he is endorsing Flip, Ernie, Gilbert. It might be hard to do because people will want to read between lines if he doesn't mention somebody.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

first things first...change the colors to red, white and blue. Change the uniforms, change the name back to the Bullets.

Posted by: Andoy | June 8, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

first dont change the color to red. Keep it blue. Second change the name back to bullets

Posted by: liltruco2010 | June 8, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Thank God.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 8, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

will own the franchise currently known as the Washington Wizards.

I hope this statement will soon be "will own the franchise once known as the Washington Wizards".

Posted by: VBFan | June 8, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Leonsis has never fired a GM. Ernie is safe forever..............

Posted by: poguesmahone | June 8, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Lucky Ted.

He comes to Washington and they end up winning the lottery to grab Ovechkin in 2004 even though Pitt had a worse record.

Now he is on the verge of completing the purchase of the team and the Wizards get the 10% chance to have that ping pong ball drop to draft #1 and get John Wall.

Ted made one major mistake along the way and that was trading for Jaromir Jagr and extending his contract when his GM was on vacation.

But the team recovered from that mistake.

If he can make Gilbert Arenas fit into a traditional shooting guard role on this club going forward the Wizards may not be down in the cellar that long.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 8, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Please Mr Leonsis Have the Wizards/Mystics both go to Red,White,and Blue and change the name of both teams so they can relate to DC better. Or make us all happy and bring back the Bullets.

Posted by: MrWillie | June 8, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Melodious/Rico,

It was a forgone conclusion that Ernie was going to be retained. Ernie being under-contract and Ted taking the reins this-close to the draft ensured that Ernie was going to survive. However, I wanted to bring-up some legitimate criticisms of Ernie in-hopes that Ted or his people would read it and inoculate the org from any potential boneheaded moves on Ernie's part.

Any GM who would turn-down a 1st round pick for Brendan Haywood or offer-up Andray Blatche for DJ Augustine clearly needs supervision.

Posted by: closg | June 8, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I hope this statement will soon be "will own the franchise once known as the Washington Wizards".

Posted by: VBFan

VBFan, let me correct you. lol

"will own the franchise formerly known as the Washington Wizards".

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I think you'll see the colors go to red, white, and blue but I seriously doubt Ted is going to change the name back to Bullets.

I'd be all for something else however.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 8, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Congrats Ted! I still don't think its a good idea, but congrats for getting what you wanted.
Now we're in the SAME BOAT we were in 10 years ago. Best of Luck!

Posted by: caphcky | June 8, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

THANNNNNK YOU!

I dont see Ted re-changing the name..But please get rid of Arenas, for years i have said that Gil's attitude seems as if he does not want to be here in D.C.. Now if Synder could take some tip from Ted all would be good in my great city of DC. Team colors are fine. We just need better players and not just for the name sake. John Wall would be a wonderful look for the Wiz.

Go Ted!

Posted by: Kool20018 | June 8, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Congrats to Teddy E-mail. For you worriers, it's not like he's new to the team since he's had a signficant ownership stake since '99, thus an insiders perspective. He knows what to do.

Posted by: G-SHOK | June 8, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

the only way to "get rid" of Gil is to pay him his full salary to sit at home, a la TMAC and the rockets

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

If he can make Gilbert Arenas fit into a traditional shooting guard role on this club going forward the Wizards may not be down in the cellar that long.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 8, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse


Have you been watching the Lakers/Celtics matchup?

Fisher who is willing to play "D" can't guard Allen (since he is too short) so what do you think is going to happen when Gil has to guard the other teams shooting guards?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 8, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Congratulations Ted! Now do yourself, the team and the fans a favor and get Gilbert Arenas outta here. You will never get this team where you want it, as long as he's on the roster. The guy is a cancer and has proved it again and again. He's a selfish, one dimensional player, who can't play without the ball and doesn't even know the word defense! I wish you all the best with your new team!

Posted by: slimjim21787 | June 8, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

With all this good news surrounding Washington sports, the only thing missing is the winning.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | June 8, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

We should go back to the classic red, white and blue of the '70s, but I think Gilbert's "shananigans" have pretty much killed any good reason to change the name back to "Bullets."

Posted by: stwasm | June 8, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Fisher who is willing to play "D" can't guard Allen (since he is too short) so what do you think is going to happen when Gil has to guard the other teams shooting guards?

Posted by: bulletsfan78

hopefully he can still dump 25 or so in their grills and hit 3s when not respected....not being able to guard another 2 is commonplace in the nba. SGs are scoring machines

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Why is Arenas all of a sudden a "cancer"? He made a knucklehead mistake by taking a prank too far and he paid his dues. Nothing malicious in his actions. The guy is a 3-time allstar and niether Butler or Jamison made the allstar team before arriving in Washington. It has never been said that he is not a hard wroker or a bad teammate. He even tried to cover for Kwame Brown and helped out Crittenden with medical bills for his mother during the suspension. He has been very active in the community both with time and money. I think because he has been out with injury folks forget just how good he was and can be again. He was starting to come around before the gun incident last this season. Butler, Haywood, and Jamison went to contending teams and still did not do anything to take their respective teams far in the playoffs. Let's just hope with the Arenas and the addition of Walls, an improved Blatche, McGee and a free agent the Wizards can be competitive again.

Posted by: garrybrown | June 8, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

and btw, that's what's really tantalizing about Nick Young. His scoring ability is unquestioned, but he's also clearly shown the ability to man up defensively if he would just keep his noggin in the game.

another potential feather in EGs cap, i dont think NY will be traded

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Any GM who would turn-down a 1st round pick for Brendan Haywood or offer-up Andray Blatche for DJ Augustine clearly needs supervision.

Posted by: closg | June 8, 2010 12:56 PM

WRT Brendan, it made more sense to package him with Caron and DeShawn in order to clear more cap space for a run at a free agent this year should the opportunity present itself. Clearly, with Caron and DeShawn eating up valuable cap space the Wizards would not have been able to enjoy their present situation. Once again, Ernest is three to four steps ahead of the competition. Unmitigated genius is so often misunderstood (*sigh*).

WRT Augustin and Blatche, I don't recall Jordan or Ernest (the principals) saying that such a preposterous discussion ever occurred. Sadly, the scenario you cite falls squarely under the heading "Rumor". Know this--Blatche is a diamond that Ernest unearthed and therefore he would've demanded a king's ransom based on the talent only he knew Blatche possessed.

Case closed?

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 8, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Awesome...after reading Divi3's unhingement the past few days (and usually I agree with the guy, but he was just way out there) maybe we can get BF78 and DCmann to start talking about what a cracker dumbazz Leonsis is.

Anyway - to the previous thread:

I preferred Cousins at the 3rd pick..pretty much view him as the best choice after wall and maybe tied with Turner, depending on what you need, etc.

I have also been a sceptic of wall's.

I will say my tune has been changing on Wall, though. The guy seems to have a real good sense of balance. I am happy we will be picking him.

Hopefully we all understand that he is not the Messiah and probably not even Michael Jordan. I'll be happy is he is a healthy, hardworking and skilled pg that can and does play some real D and has a win first attitude.


we can probably pick up Cousins in 2 years from some other disgruntled team.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Why is Arenas all of a sudden a "cancer"?
Posted by: garrybrown

Come on garrybrown, Arenas is definatly a cancer. Didn't you see how better we got once he was jettisoned. No way we would have won 26 games with him around.

Posted by: millineumman | June 8, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

divi3 - I like your understanding of the players and the game.

Posted by: garrybrown | June 8, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

VBFan, let me correct you. lol

"will own the franchise formerly known as the Washington Wizards".

Posted by: G-Man11 |

You sure???

once (wŭns)
adverb
One time only: once a day.
At one time in the past; formerly.

Posted by: VBFan | June 8, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

hopefully he can still dump 25 or so in their grills and hit 3s when not respected....not being able to guard another 2 is commonplace in the nba. SGs are scoring machines

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I don't expect someone to shut Allen down, but saying Gil will score 25 to make up for his lack of "D" sounds like something EJ and EG would say?

Championship teams are at least willing to play "D".

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 8, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

and btw, that's what's really tantalizing about Nick Young. His scoring ability is unquestioned, but he's also clearly shown the ability to man up defensively if he would just keep his noggin in the game.

I thought his defense improved towards the end of Tapscott's year. Having a new coach each year has hurt his progress. I expect a big improvement this year, but if the locker room turns into romper room again he'll be one of the first to go.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 8, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

divi3 - I like your understanding of the players and the game.

Posted by: garrybrown | June 8, 2010 1:48 PM

thx!

Let's just hope with the Arenas and the addition of Walls, an improved Blatche, McGee and a free agent the Wizards can be competitive again.

Posted by: garrybrown | June 8, 2010 1:34 PM

Hard to try and separate the fan from the objectives truths....but the future does look bright. AB is the dealio, Gil was 23/7 last season, and Wall at worst is going to be better than average. I've been ripping EG recently because he deserves flak for the past mess....but no denying how well the franchise is currently positioned. Gotta love it


Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"and btw, that's what's really tantalizing about Nick Young."

Ehh, I think NY is as good as he currently gets. If they can trade that guy then please do.

I just wanbt to smack that goofy grin right off of his face when turns the ball over.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 8, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Teams will cheat off of Gil and double-team Wall, destroying his game and confidence. Gil at 2-guard is not better than DeShawn Stevenson.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how a double-teamed Wall passing the ball to an open Gil is going to hurt Wall's confidence. Finding the open man will be his primary assignment afterall

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

divi

I was being sarcastic. Of course both Gil and Wall will benefit playing with each other. Penetration will be easier. You remember Gil always having to split double-teams out high. Defenses will have to use the sf to double but not a guard.

Defensively, hopefully it will be easier for Gil to stay in front of the shooting guards as Wall defends the point. Gil will still give up the 3 and will have trouble defending the Wade's of the world, but so does everybody else.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Defensively, hopefully it will be easier for Gil to stay in front of the shooting guards as Wall defends the point. Gil will still give up the 3 and will have trouble defending the Wade's of the world, but so does everybody else.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Gil to stay in front of the shooting guards?

Are you kidding?

Do you really think Gil is going to fight through screens to keep up with the other teams shooting guards?

NO!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 8, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse


Any GM who would turn-down a 1st round pick for Brendan Haywood or offer-up Andray Blatche for DJ Augustine clearly needs supervision.

Posted by: closg | June 8, 2010 12:56 PM

WRT Brendan, it made more sense to package him with Caron and DeShawn in order to clear more cap space for a run at a free agent this year should the opportunity present itself. Clearly, with Caron and DeShawn eating up valuable cap space the Wizards would not have been able to enjoy their present situation. Once again, Ernest is three to four steps ahead of the competition. Unmitigated genius is so often misunderstood (*sigh*).

WRT Augustin and Blatche, I don't recall Jordan or Ernest (the principals) saying that such a preposterous discussion ever occurred. Sadly, the scenario you cite falls squarely under the heading "Rumor". Know this--Blatche is a diamond that Ernest unearthed and therefore he would've demanded a king's ransom based on the talent only he knew Blatche possessed.

Case closed?

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 8, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

I still don't understand why he drafted Pecherov. Must be Ernie's genius mind at work.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 8, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78

That will be a problem too. But I was talking about penetration off the dribble.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

hopefully he can still dump 25 or so in their grills and hit 3s when not respected....not being able to guard another 2 is commonplace in the nba. SGs are scoring machines

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I don't expect someone to shut Allen down, but saying Gil will score 25 to make up for his lack of "D" sounds like something EJ and EG would say?

Championship teams are at least willing to play "D".

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 8, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse
Alrighty...here we go.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

harry(I refuse to type the rest)lol

I didn't agree with drafting Pech, especially since they already had a 6'11" finesse power forward project in Blatche.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Did y'all see Gil defending Ray Allen last night as he went 7 for 7 in a row shooting 3's the other night?

Counter that with who was Ray Allen defending the other night? Was it Gil? Was it Kobe? Whoever it was, it was pretty much a mismatch.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

OK _ I want folks to put it out here who they want us to get FA wise. if you want to, you can say like "Rudy Gay, but only at $12 million a year average over 5 years"

And you have to be reasonable.

I just want to get it out there on table so a year from now or two, some of y'ens guys aren't yapping about how if we only hadn't signed so and so or I always thought we should have picked up...

Also...put your top 5 or 10 or whatever lists up there for the 30th and 35th picks. And if every one your picks are drafted before the 30th, then you clearly don't understand how this works.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Mr.Leonsis: Congrat's now you can officially get rid of dumb and dumber (Flip& Ernie) and finally put an end to two of the worst years in franchise history.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 8, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

DJ Mbenga! 2yrs/$3mill

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

So with WALL coming into the house on the 17th, and ARENAS, ROSS, YOUNG, and FOYE under contract, who ends up on the final roster in October? ARENAS and YOUNG of course will be in the mix. ROSS will almost certainly exercise his player 1.146 million option, and FOYE has an 80% scale offer, but at the club's behest. And doesn't getting WALL make LIVINGSTON's return problematic at best from his standpoint if not from ours?

I could see having WALL and LIVINGSTON at PG with ARENAS and YOUNG at two especially since ARENAS could combo. But ROSS and FOYE could be replaced in my book, and I see some changes on the horizon at #'s 1 and 2.

Posted by: glawrence007 | June 8, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

My guess is that Ted gives Ernie a shot at rebuilding through the draft / free agency and one season. If the team shows some signs of improvement and Grunfeld nails a contributor out of the No. 30 and No. 35 pickets, then he may have bought himself some more time. I don't see how firing Flip makes the Wizards better in the short-term. The Wiz have zero chance of winning more than 25-30 games this season even if Phil Jackson or Doc Rivers was the coach.

Flip's tenure will be directly tied to how quickly Wall develops and what type of relationship he can build with the young players.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 8, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

dar,

Ernest already got rid of them and did so swiftly.

Dumb (Mike O'Koren)
Dumber (Eddie Jordan)

That was easy. And let the record reflect that I had been refraining from speaking negatively about your boy, Eddie "I've never been successful as a head coach without Ernest-I just can't do it" Jordan.

Quite simply, Ernest Grunfeld still has his job with all rights and privileges appertaining thereto. That won't change anytime soon.

You can be cheerful about one thing, though--Eddie's hard-earned reputation as a loser head coach has only been enhanced by his debacle in the City of Brotherly Love.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 8, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Glawrence - I am with you. I'd love to keep Livingstone, but at a reasonable rate. Hopefully no one else noticed his comeback this season. Still, I don't see him staying and spending the "best years of his life" as the back up to Wall.

I'd be happy to ditch Foye. There are about 40 pg's in the league that can jack up ineefecient shots, blow defensive assignments and have a middling TO/asst ratio. And most of them are faster than he is, too.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Finally. A (sort of) "new" beginning. Congratulations to Leonsis and company.

I'd like the team name changed, but not back to "Bullets" (that worked well when the team was the Baltimore Bullets [alliteration] but not when it moved to Washington, and certainly not after DC became known as the "murder capital of the world"). I suspect Ted will go to red as the color though I feel red-white-blue is trite and prefer the current colors (not the uniforms).

Wall should be drafted. Arenas? Well, Ted will have to keep him, at least for a while. I'd like to see someone insist that Gil MUST play defense (even if he's no good at it, something would be better than nothing and letting him get by without even making a token effort is definitely demoralizing for other players).

I view Grunfeld's draft record as pretty good and don't have a problem with leaving the player choices to him (certainly his evaluations will be better than mine or those of almost all others on these boards).

As far as free agents go, well, Leonsis has pretty much stated (at least hinted) he's not planning on spending any serious money in the near future by suggesting he's going to build through the draft so . . . don't go wild, guys, when he does what he's suggested he will. We are, after all, in rebuilding mode.

Posted by: EestiLaps | June 8, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

If I have the keys, I'm Waiting for Melo next year.. That's Wall, Gil, Melo,Blatche and McGee. Move up this year by combining 30th, 35th and a player or future pick for the 15th or better (i could see Mike Miller in a Pacers Uniform in a sign and trade and that team needs vet leadership) grab Monroe who I could see falling a few slots from the 10 as he is being called more of a power forward. He could share time with McGee against stronger centers. I see him as a Big Baby or Kendrick Perkins type center. Then, Proceed to second round of playoffs in two years and then onward and upwards from there.

Posted by: WestCoastBullet | June 8, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I just wanbt to smack that goofy grin right off of his face when turns the ball over.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 8, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

be honest, have you ever seen him grin after a turnover. He's more likely to dig a hole in the court and stick his head in it. Tha Kid gets high on his good plays and low on his bad ones. That's why he's ususally no good for an entire game after having a rough start and getting the hook. Conversely, he played fairly decent when his mins were extended. Of course some would say his minutes were extended because he played well, either was he's shown himself to have what it takes to be a good player. i think he stays(as in no trade) and gives instant offense off the bench with the second unit as the primary scorer, or compliment to Gil or Wall when the other has to take a blow.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 8, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Gil at 2-guard is not better than DeShawn Stevenson.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 8, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Your're kidding...right?????

Posted by: chicoexcell | June 8, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

OK _ I want folks to put it out here who they want us to get FA wise. if you want to, you can say like "Rudy Gay, but only at $12 million a year average over 5 years"

My choice is Ian Mahinmi. The Spurs blog, 48 Minutes of Hell, put out a podcast recently that's worth a listen. They like him a lot. The Wizards have the minutes for another young center, and can afford to overpay him a little if needed.

And Mahinmi's agent, Bouno Ndiaye represents many of the young talents coming out of France. Can't hurt to start a good relationship with him.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 8, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I'd like the team name changed, but not back to "Bullets" (that worked well when the team was the Baltimore Bullets [alliteration] but not when it moved to Washington, and certainly not after DC became known as the "murder capital of the world"). I suspect Ted will go to red as the color though I feel red-white-blue is trite and prefer the current colors (not the uniforms).

Posted by: EestiLaps | June 8, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

What he said . . .

Posted by: rbpalmer | June 8, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

My FA picks are in order:

1)David Lee 4-5 year contract - he has great work ethic and can play both 4-5 with hustle He can defend adequately, although his size has the obvious drawbacks. He can teach Mcgee things like positioning and I'd be happy to have him start for the next year or so while McGee shapes up.

2)Rudy Gay 5 yr @ 10-12 mil per. a solid player at the position we need the most help with. But since he will probably get resigned by Memphis...

3) Depending on whether we can get gay (that sounds funny), we should see who we can pick up amongst the group of MM, Josh Howard and/or Josh Childress. my guess is that Childress stays in Europe for the extra $$$$ and to be an allstar, whereas here he would be just a good player with a MLE. All three have obvious downsides/risks but also could get decent value for a shorter term contract (1-3yrs) at a decent, by NBA standards, payrate ($4-6mil)

4) Livingstone - Sign him up for 3-4 years if he will take it. Wall will need a serious minutes guy even as a back up for the first couple years as he gets fully conditioned and the coach (hopefully) uses several teaching moments during the games.

5) Tony Allen - get him at a good rate and let him play "d" behind Arenas and behind or in front of NY.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

tony allen would be Funky

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 8, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: djnnnou | June 8, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Uncle Ted has already stated that he doesn't like free agency, and wants to build through the draft. This suggests to me that he wants to use the team's cap room to take on unwanted contracts from other teams and acquire additional draft picks from those teams as compensation. I'm betting that Grunfeld is attempting to do this as we post.

Posted by: rbpalmer | June 8, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Then again...I'd be OK with a couple fillers this year and see how we do with our picks and trades and...who know what. See about next years FA class while everyone else is maxed out with their flops from this year.

geez I am already thinking of other guys I wouldn't mind seeing on the team at the right price:

brewer
barnes
Jermaine Oneal

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I dont think Zards should go after anyone who will command the type of money David Lee or Rudy Gay will. The current group of signed guys plus a couple affordable role players and draft picks should take the floor next season and we'll see what's what.

Keep Livingston, ditch Miller/Foye and tell QRoss he'll find a daily number2 in his shoe if he exercises his option.

Tony Allen would be a sweet pickup.

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

maybe even reddick, but only if we are giving up on NY.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I can see it both ways, Divi.

David Lee is a solid player and even tying up $12 mil is "worth it" to get someone that not only plays 2 positions at that level but plays both ends of the floor, doesn't seem to complain and seemingly is willing to let others be "the Man" while he does all the work.

Rudy gay I am less certain about. he is good, but maybe not worth locking up that cash for that long. This years FA class is slight on SF's but the next couple should have a lot.

I can defeinitely see getting a few guys in at 1-3 yr contracts while we sort it out, but passing up known quantities like Lee and Gay can leave you with no options down the road, also.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

next year should be about Wall getting his footing while AB balls the eff out all season and permanently establishes himself. JM should show significant improvement while hopefully Gil plays well enough to be trade bait, or if things mesh well kept for another season.

if by the end of next season there is a clear repertoire developing between Wall, AB, and JM....we're well on our way.

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

So you are willing to go on record now of saying there is no one you will second guess EG or anyone else about? Just as long as we fill out our roster cheaply and without long term obligation?

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 8, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

David Lee is not worth $12 mill. Not even close. On a good team he's a solid, complementary player. Solid complementary players don't get $12 mill. And he doesn't really play 2 positions. At least he shouldn't. He played C on the Knicks because, well, they're the Knicks. On a well built team he'd be the starting PF, period.

And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on Melo or Durant next summer. Putting aside the question of why they'd leave already playoff caliber teams to join a rebuilding effort that's going to be a couple years (at best) from being as good as the teams they'd be leaving, there's the more important issue of money. If they wait until next summer to become FAs, then they'll not only be looking at losing a ton of money under the new collective bargaining agreement, but also risk going into an almost certain lockout with no contract, meaning that if they get hurt in some freak accident during the lockout, they're not covered financially. Not a chance in hell of them making that choice voluntarily. The only way they don't sign extensions with their current squads before the end of next season is if their current teams decide not to offer them one (or try to lowball them) and I don't see much chance of that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 8, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

are you the court reporter or something?

i dont want Mike Miller or Foye back, if they are I will 2nd guess that but not much since they'll be cheap

past that, it really depends on the specific players and numbers doesnt it? You say Lee at $12mill.....do you mean 5yrs/$60mill? Because he aint signing a 3yr deal and probably wants closer to $15mill/yr. Gay has already refused a pretty big deal (i think), so I'm assuming he wants 5yr/$60mill+ as well.

Those type deals are not what the Zards need right now

Posted by: divi3 | June 8, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Can't wait for him to un-do the idiocy that is the team name "Wizards"? Let's pray they're back to the Bullets ASAP.

Posted by: BulletsFan1 | June 8, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Uncle Ted has already stated that he doesn't like free agency, and wants to build through the draft.

Posted by: rbpalmer | June 8, 2010 4:36 PM

I think he was talking about big name/high salary free agents. Mahinmi will cost around $3 mil/yr.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 8, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Assuming the goal is to dump Arenas and start from scratch, I wouldn't sign any money free agents this summer. I'd bring back Livingston and Foye (at a reasonable rate), then fill the roster with draft picks and whomever. Outside of getting another high draft pick next season, I think our best chance at bringing in talent the next couple of seasons is via trades.

We have $12 mil in trade exceptions, loads of cap room, and $16 mil in a guard who put up 23/7 last year. If Zack Randolph can be traded, Arenas can too.

I'm still not entirely convinced the team is going to go in that direction though. Unless they can get a legitimate starter and/or a high draft pick, they may not trade Arenas. After all, extra cap space isn't worth much if you can't find people willing to sign with your team.

Posted by: segastyle | June 8, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Name Change?
I'd really like to see it happen.
A Wizard sounds like when you take a leak in a snow storm.
BUT....I don't see Mr. Stern allowing that to happen.
If Utah has to be saddled with the old city's name and L.A. is still the Lakers as in Minnesota. I'd be shocked if he let Ted change just cause a bunch of bloggers don't like it.

Posted by: VBFan | June 8, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

I've read that a name change can cost from $3 million to $10 million. That money would be better spent on a local D-League team and international scouting. I don't want to see guys running around with one-armed T-shirts next year either, so whatever product other teams use for shoulder support would be a good investment too.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 8, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! TED..Change the name of the team.

Posted by: kaigainey | June 8, 2010 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Are you kiddin' me? There's not chance in hell Leonsis changes the name of the team back to the Bullets after the Arenas gun debacle, esp. given Stern's reaction to the whole mess. That would be like laughing in Stern's face.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 8, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

I would like for Ted Leonsis to be around and for him to be the major partner and owner of the Wizards for a long time. He's a smart guy, and a good person. Thus I would like him to see his doctor, get a better diet and do some exercise. I know, I'm about the same age though in a slightly better condition. Live long and prosper Ted!

Posted by: rickgonz | June 8, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm in favor of a return to the team's old name: the Baltimore Bullets.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 8, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Then if the club struggles, we can blame those yahoos up in Charm City...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 8, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

"That would be like laughing in Stern's face.
Posted by: kalo_rama"

I dunno, Stern's pretty short. Be more like 'laughing at the top of his head."

Posted by: Samson151 | June 8, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

"I dunno, Stern's pretty short. Be more like 'laughing at the top of his head."

Posted by: Samson151


ehhh...needs salt.

Posted by: Bullzards80 | June 8, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I'd like the team name changed, but not back to "Bullets" (that worked well when the team was the Baltimore Bullets [alliteration] but not when it moved to Washington, and certainly not after DC became known as the "murder capital of the world"). I suspect Ted will go to red as the color though I feel red-white-blue is trite and prefer the current colors (not the uniforms).

Posted by: EestiLaps | June 8, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

What he said . . .

Posted by: rbpalmer

------

I agree.

Posted by: nmik | June 8, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

I don't think you'll see a name change back to Bullets. You may see uniform or change in team colors at some point. They've got too much on their plate to make a name change the first order of bidniz.

Posted by: dcwizard | June 8, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

The irony of the whole name situations is that the Bullets name really was for shooting baskets, as in basketballs and not bullets.

The Redskins name wasn't named as a derogatory depiction of native Americans but as a positive strong characteration of them, though misguided.

So to be of the opinion that the Washington Wizards can't go back to be named the Bullets because the name Bullets is synonymous for gun play and murder isn't quite right.

Political correctness and the term zero tolerance causes us to often to emphasize and respond to negatives in our society rather than exemplifying our positives.

The Bullets name came about as a example of being proficient at shooting the basketball through the basket and had nothing to do with violence, shooting guns, murder, and gang violence.

Why would we want the Washington Bullet name to go down in history as being being emblematice of ills in our society when in reality the name Washington Bullets really has nothing to do with those ills.

I say bring the name back to emphasize the positive image it was named for.

But I guess for some the name has to die along with the jump shot which seems to have lost it place in NBA lure as well.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 8, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

I think I may ask for Ted's latest book as a Father's Day present. Then make everybody in my household make one of those lists.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 8, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

I think I may ask for Ted's latest book as a Father's Day present. Then make everybody in my household make one of those lists.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 8, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Congratulation Monty Williams, former Potomac High school grad on landing the Hornets head coaching job.

Posted by: dcinmd1 | June 9, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

As I understand it, the Spurs are in something of an awkward situation with their European players. The one they really want, Tiago Splitter, can come play in 2010-11, but for no more than the MLE -- he already makes more in Europe for many fewer games. With the prospect of an NBA lockout, that means he's far more likely to stay where he is. Most likely is using his rights as sugar in a deal for a current NBA player.

Mahinmi is impressive physically but not very strong. He has trouble holding position in the blocks. If he had a more developed offensive game, perhaps with a jump shot, he'd be more effective. Right now he can dominate in a D-League game but would be overmatched against power players.

Sounds like Javale McGee, huh? But nowhere near as long.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

I guess on reflection I think it's another development year for this team. They have some talent besides Wall, but objectively, I can't see that translating into many wins. If all went well this might be like Durant's rookie year, which also didn't yield much in the way of victories. I'd be just as happy to see Arenas gone and Miller too (let the guy go to a winner, for Pete's sake). The rest can stumble around and learn together.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

I've read that a name change can cost from $3 million to $10 million. That money would be better spent on a local D-League team and international scouting. I don't want to see guys running around with one-armed T-shirts next year either, so whatever product other teams use for shoulder support would be a good investment too.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 8, 2010 6:55 PM |
.........................................

+1 djnnou, start focusing on player development. Use the damn D-League and improve scouting - domestic and international.

Posted by: closg | June 9, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

and Miller too (let the guy go to a winner, for Pete's sake). The rest can stumble around and learn together.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Yeah he deserves to go to a winner since he couldn't help build one here like he was brought in to do. Seems like a good guy. he brings it every night, but the idea that somehow he deserves to be on a winning team just doesn't sit well over here. What has he done to deserve being on a winner?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 9, 2010 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I hope he brings a 2010 version of the 2008 Celtics. The Celtics have shown when "superstars" play together with a goal in mind good things happen.

Imagine, Wall, Gilbert, Lebron, Blatche, McGee (starters) along with Al Thorton, Josh Howard, Nick Young, James Singleton, our 2 second round pioks, and resigning of Mike Miller and maybe Livingston...maybe sign and trade David Lee for the 5 spot with McGee. In short Ted wants to build a championship level contender for YEARS to come...this would be the way to go.

I already suspect the colors and name will change as will the attitudes and professionalism in the locker room and on the court. We'll still be rebuilding but why take the long road? As for Lebron staying with the Cavs, they're in rebuilding mode as well; I fully expect Jamison to be bought out & sign elsewhere so Ted lets get this done!

Posted by: Gooddad | June 9, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Can't wait for JUNE 17.

Posted by: glawrence007 | June 9, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse


I guess on reflection I think it's another development year for this team. They have some talent besides Wall, but objectively, I can't see that translating into many wins. If all went well this might be like Durant's rookie year, which also didn't yield much in the way of victories. I'd be just as happy to see Arenas gone and Miller too (let the guy go to a winner, for Pete's sake). The rest can stumble around and learn together.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 8:41 AM

I'm just hoping they look good losing next season. If Wall is dynamic, AB is ballin out, JM is a bit bigger, stronger, better footwork....they'll still be losing but the nucleus will be in place and growing together.

imho, Wall is going to be a very good player at the least and AB is the real deal holyfield. Which just leaves JM to exhibit the proper developmental arc for the franchise to be off and running, with a core of under25 players, ton of CAP room, and several other draft picks.

Things can fall in place much faster than people seem to think....

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Realistically, this franchise is several years away from being much more than average. A team that's built around a young core (assuming that's what happens) is going to take several years of growth and development. That's just the way it generally works. People being up Durant and OKC, and while they certainly looked good and inspired some hope in their fans, the fact remains it took them until Durant's 3rd year to make the playoffs and they lost in the first round.

Other than Arenas (who's role/future with the Wiz is still a question mark) not a single player under contract to the Wizards next season has proven the ability to be a consistent reliable contributor on a good team. You have to walk before you can run, and the Wiz are likely to be spending all of next season learning to crawl.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

The irony of the whole name situations is that the Bullets name really was for shooting baskets, as in basketballs and not bullets.

So to be of the opinion that the Washington Wizards can't go back to be named the Bullets because the name Bullets is synonymous for gun play and murder isn't quite right.

The Bullets name came about as a example of being proficient at shooting the basketball through the basket and had nothing to do with violence, shooting guns,

Why would we want the Washington Bullet name to go down in history as being being emblematice of ills in our society when in reality the name Washington Bullets really has nothing to do with those ills.

I say bring the name back to emphasize the positive image it was named for.

But I guess for some the name has to die along with the jump shot which seems to have lost it place in NBA lure as well.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 8, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. Check this logo out and tell me "Bullets" had nothing to do with firearms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BaltimoreBullets.png

My Dad always told me that the name came from both the alliteration and that Triumph Explosives was both a large employer in the area and that the city was proud of the fact that Triumph helped win WW2 by supplying much of the munitions (bullets) used.

I can't verify this, but it seems more likely than the reason wikipedia gives for the name...after an athletic shoe.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse


If the Wiz play hard on both ends of the court most fans will be happy. The previous version featuring the "big 3" only cared about offense (and that was mainly of the selfish variety). We no longer have a black hole starting at the PF position and soon we'll have a more conventional playmaker at PG. Expect little in the way of wins this year but ya never know.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 9, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Kalo;
I respectfully disagree with your assessment of David Lee. I guess we will see when he gets his contract.

Maybe he starts out at $10 mil/yr, but the avg of his contract will be at least $12/yr

Obviously he may be better suited in a PF position, but the guy has proved he can play C...and at an allstar level, too.

Sure, you can say he was a late addition (but replacing Iverson who certainly didn't deserve to be there)

Plus, he was the first guy in over 30 years to have a 35-20-10 game, even if it was against the Warriors.

I can understand saying that we should not tie up that kind of money, but I think a guy like David Lee is someone every team would liek to have. Whether they can afford may be another matter.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Durant is in the West though. Eastern conf is weaksauce, you can get into the playoffs much more easily. Bulls got in at .500 this year, a paltry 15 games better than the most disastrous season any of us have witnessed around here. One that also included the franchise's longest losing streak!

Basement to postseason isnt that far.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

David Lee seems to be a Rodney Dangerfield. No respect.

Despite the numbers he puts up, the Knicks refused to consider giving him any kind of serious deal (lebron related, but still)and there is next to nothing as far as buzz about him as a FA.

I guess he'll get his chance to prove everyone wrong with whatever team signs him next year.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Congratulation Monty Williams, former Potomac High school grad on landing the Hornets head coaching job.

Posted by: dcinmd1

And originally drafted by the Knicks by one Ernest Grunfeld......

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I am a believer in David Lee. I may be proven wrong, though. And as we know, it only takes one awkward fall or knee bump to turn an allstar into a bench chump.

He is definitely second tier on this FA class, but he will get bank...justy not a max deal.

Honestly, given my druthers, I'd prefer Lee to Bosh. Though I'd be happy with either.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Leonsis wants to build through the draft but I think that great teams have to do everything well balanced like drafting, trading, FA signing. I think if there is any time to sign a free agent it would be this summer. Also if there is anytime to trade its this summer. Teams that strike out during this summer like the knicks probably would get desperate and probably trade for better players (Gilbert Arenas) and include future first round picks.

Posted by: jefferu | June 9, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Lee is getting the D'Antoni stat bump now, which I think makes people wary. Simmons has called Nash the most overrated player in the league, and now claims "proven" correct by his change in stats since D'Antoni left.

We shall see!

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"Maybe he starts out at $10 mil/yr, but the avg of his contract will be at least $12/yr"

Well that's pure speculation on your part isn't it? And, as such, it does nothing to actually prove that David Lee is worth $12 mill/year, however you parse it out. And even if he is paid that much, that still, in and of itself, won't inherently prove he's worth that much. Pro sports are filled with guys who get paid a helluva lot more than they're actually worth.

"Obviously he may be better suited in a PF position, but the guy has proved he can play C...and at an allstar level, too."

Jamaal Magloire proved he could play C at an All-Star level one year too. Didn't make him worth $12 mill nor did it cement his value as a key player on a winning team. David Lee is a natural PF who played out of position on a terrible team that had no other options. He's not a primary C. Can he play spot minutes there? Sure. So can most PFs. But that's not the same as actually being a guy you'd want to play C for significant minutes on a good team.

"Plus, he was the first guy in over 30 years to have a 35-20-10 game, even if it was against the Warriors."

So? Tracy Murry and Dana Barros both scored 50 in a game once. Big whoop.

"I can understand saying that we should not tie up that kind of money, but I think a guy like David Lee is someone every team would liek to have."

I never said otherwise. Just the opposite, in fact. I said specifically that he's a guy who can help a good team. But he's not going to help them to the tune of 20/10 as a starting C, and he's not worth $12 mil/year (at least not to the Wiz).

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"Simmons has called Nash the most overrated player in the league, and now claims "proven" correct by his change in stats since D'Antoni left."

Simmons is a moron. Nash's stats haven't changed much (if at all) since D'Antoni left.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Lee could be a good fit for this team. He's not quite as good as his gaudy stats from the Knicks, but he's proven over a couple of years that he's a tough player and a hustle guy. He's not afraid to bang, runs the floor and he has a developed a reliable jumper. As a combo 4/5, they could use him well in a rotation with AB and JM, as he fills in well for some of the weaknesses of both. Lord knows both players would get better having to go against him every day in practice. And I think his attitude (or at least what I think it is) would help this team.

I like his style of play and I wouldn't have a problem signing him to a 4 or 5 year deal (he'd be 32 when it expires), but it would really depend on the price he's looking for. Ultimately, I think it's moot, because I don't think Ted is going to fork over big cash for anyone this offseason as others have said. And I'm ok with that.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

If anything, D'Antoni's departure shows how much better Nash made him look, not the other way around.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Any GM who would turn-down a 1st round pick for Brendan Haywood or offer-up Andray Blatche for DJ Augustine clearly needs supervision.

Posted by: closg | June 8, 2010 12:56 PM

WRT Brendan, it made more sense to package him with Caron and DeShawn in order to clear more cap space for a run at a free agent this year should the opportunity present itself. Clearly, with Caron and DeShawn eating up valuable cap space the Wizards would not have been able to enjoy their present situation. Once again, Ernest is three to four steps ahead of the competition. Unmitigated genius is so often misunderstood (*sigh*).

WRT Augustin and Blatche, I don't recall Jordan or Ernest (the principals) saying that such a preposterous discussion ever occurred. Sadly, the scenario you cite falls squarely under the heading "Rumor". Know this--Blatche is a diamond that Ernest unearthed and therefore he would've demanded a king's ransom based on the talent only he knew Blatche possessed.

Case closed?

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 8, 2010 1:42 PM

I'm not so sure we wouldn't have been better off with another first rounder this year.
DS and CB would have been off the books next summer anyway and that appears to be the earliest the Wizards will make a splash in free agency, per Ted. So, I won't go so far as to say EG blew it, but the case is far from closed.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 9, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough kalo...but you should go back on your meds now.

I said I respectfully disagreed. Obviously respect is a foreign concept to you.

As far as worth, the market sets the "worth." If he gets paid $12 mil then that is his worth. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't regret paying that down the line.

You don't think he is worth that to the Wizards. I do.

Also, I never said he would produce 20/10 here, although I think he would do just fine. The guy can flat out play and brings that spirit of competition unselfishness that this board has been bemoaning about our team lacking.

Not sure why you are picking out Mcgloire to compare him to. Mcgloire never produced like Lee has the last 2 years. Mcgloire's best years are more like Lee's stats from his sub days. But I am not talking about McGloire being on our roster anyway.

As far as whether he is a C or PF I think that is silly. I understand that he may be better at PF, but if he is one of the better C's, then that is fine, too.

If he meshes well with his teamates, thats the important issue. Start him at C, let him spell Blatche at PF, Put him, McGee and Blatche in there together for 3-4 minutes if its working and you can call him whatever position you want.

Anyway. you are pretty keen on telling everyone why they are wrong, but why don't you post up who you'd like to pickup this offseason.

Go ahead and post your preferred lineup and picks.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

ts...my thoughts exactly. I'd love to see Lee on this team, but doubt it will happen. When i have a billion $$$ to buy my own team, i can make the call.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"I said I respectfully disagreed. Obviously respect is a foreign concept to you."

There was nothing disrespectful in what I said, unless you're the kind of narrow-minded person who considers any strongly held opinion that disagrees with yours a sign of disrespect. And, clearly, you are. But hey, that's not really my problem, so piss off.

"As far as worth, the market sets the "worth." If he gets paid $12 mil then that is his worth. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't regret paying that down the line."

The market sets price, defined as how much someone is willing to pay. (But people are often willing to pay more than something is worth if they want it bad enough.) A player's actual worth/value is determined by what he contributes. Two completely different (and, in pro sports, frequently unrelated) things. The Bulls signed Ben Wallace to a contract starting at around $15 mill. Does that mean he was worth that money? Anyone with half a brain who followed the situation knows full well he wasn't.

"Also, I never said he would produce 20/10 here, although I think he would do just fine. The guy can flat out play and brings that spirit of competition unselfishness that this board has been bemoaning about our team lacking."

That's great. But he's still not worth $12 mill. Guys who play hard and bring a great attitude can be had for a lot less.

"As far as whether he is a C or PF I think that is silly. I understand that he may be better at PF, but if he is one of the better C's, then that is fine, too."

If would be fine if he were. But he's not. He's a 6' 9" (yeah, right) PF with no ups. He's not a real NBA C. Period. Hell, D'Antoni himself has said as much, expressing admiration for Lee's willingness to man the C spot even though he's usually giving up considerable size and taking a beating.

"Anyway. you are pretty keen on telling everyone why they are wrong, but why don't you post up who you'd like to pickup this offseason."

Because I have no particular interest in playing armchair GM and, unless there's something in the site rules I missed, I'm not required to. Although if we're all now required to fulfill other posters' request, then I dutifully request that people stop posting illogical/unrealistic trade and FA scenarios.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

If anything, D'Antoni's departure shows how much better Nash made him look, not the other way around.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 11:58 AM

Simmons is correct that Nash is arguably the most overrated player EVER. That doesnt mean he isnt a good-great player, but he's been vastly overrated when considered with the list of other multiple MVP players.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"Simmons is correct that Nash is arguably the most overrated player EVER."

Given that pretty much anything can be argued, the not-so-subtle inclusion of the "arguably" qualifier severely undercuts your case.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

And the other qualifier (". . .but he's been vastly overrated when considered with the list of other multiple MVP players.") doesn't help much either.

So basically what you're saying is that of the small select group of multiple MVP winners, someone could, if they were so inclined, argue that Nash is the most overrated of that small select group.

Okay. And . . .?

Seriously, saying he's BY FAR the worst multiple MVP winner EVER isn't really much of a criticism.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

If it's true that EG turned down a 1st rounder for BTH along with Jeff Pendegraph, than EG seriously misplayed his hand. Was nice to get DBrick off the books, but the team was being blown up so aquiring Josh Howard really wasnt that beneficial given we are looking at a few season before expecting to be a strong team.

Also interesting to note the deal apparently fell through over Rudy Fernandez. A flashy player who everyone loves yet didnt produce when relied on. I would be wary of Calderon-itis with him. Namely, guys who come into the league rail thin and show lots of promise, but lose a step when they thicken up to withstand the league's rigors.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm agreeing he's possibly the most overrated player of all times. Never been to a Finals, never played a lick of defense, and padded stats in D'Antonis 7sec clock system (Simmons point).

A guy like that winning consecutive MVPs makes the award a popularity contest, because he isnt within shouting distance of guys like MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Dunacn, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, etc etc etc

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Then you also have to include Karl Malone as overrated as well.

The thing about Nash not winning a championship is true, but would he have played for a ring if not for that fiasco that led to suspensions in that series with the Spurs a few years ago?

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 9, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

A guy like that winning consecutive MVPs makes the award a popularity contest, because he isnt within shouting distance of guys like MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Dunacn, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, etc etc etc

Posted by: divi3

Since the MVP is based on votes, isn't the award always a popularity contest?

Posted by: tgif11 | June 9, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Nash is in competition with only two of the guys on your list, divi3. I really don't see how comparing him to the others advances your argument about Nash being unworthy to receive the award when he did.

Posted by: tgif11 | June 9, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Being a multiple league MVP automatically puts you in the discussion with the all-time greats in the history of the league. Nash doesnt belong anywhere near that discussion, which is why I agree with Simmons in this case.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Leonsis has waited a long time to get control of this franchise, I'm sure this is a happy day for him.

The Bullets name was a name that actually predated Abe Pollin's ownership in the NBA. Can't remember if the original team folded, or moved from Baltimore, in the old days teams moved and folded a lot. Abe Pollin bought the Chicago Zephers and moved them to Baltimore and renamed them the Bullets in the early 1960's.

The Bullets name had a long and proud history in the league. The Wizards apparently got into some vodoo dust or something. Not exactly been known as a cornerstone franchise since they've been known as the Wizzers.

While I really like the idea of a Red, White, and Blue Uniform. I'm not as sure that the Bullets name ever really had the feel of being part of Washington. It was more like something DC stole from Baltimore. It had a ring like the Washington Orioles would have.

I just don't think Wizards have quite cut it either.

I also think it would be nice to come up with a new name that has a connection to Washington, or to possibly revive and old Washington sports franchise name like the Senators.

The most famous Washington team name connected to basketball is the Generals. Not much of a reputation for winning though.

In an effort to try and one up the Cowboys, you know those guys who like to declare they are "America's Team. I think Ted could make a spin on his Capitals franchise name and dub his basketball team the "American, Capitals".

Now that says, "Washington, DC".
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 9, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Being a multiple league MVP automatically puts you in the discussion with the all-time greats in the history of the league. Nash doesnt belong anywhere near that discussion, which is why I agree with Simmons in this case.
Posted by: divi3


There's no direct link between MVP and all-time great.
To wit: John Stockton is one of the all-time greats but never won an MVP award. For example, in the 90-91 season he averaged 17.2 points, 14.2 assists, 2.9 steals and shot 50.7%. He finished 12th in MVP voting that season.

Posted by: tgif11 | June 9, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

He's a 6' 9" (yeah, right) PF with no ups.
Posted by: kalo_rama

He's a legit 6'9" in shoes (which is what they seem to go by these days), with a passable 8'10.5" max reach and an respectable 30.5" no-step vertical, same as Dwight Howard. Am I saying he plays like Dwight Howard? Hell, no. But in terms of the slippery slope of measurables, he's a bit more capable than you're giving him credit for.

He's a classic tweener PF/C. He can play C, he can play PF. He's better sized to play PF, but he's proven he can hold his own at C, even before D'Antoni arrived.

The better question that you started is, "Is he worth to the Wiz the $12M-$15M that he likely wants?" and I think most of us agree he is not. If he were asking for $8M-$10M a year, I think the opinion would be more split.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Here's a scenario that technically could work for bringing Lee here, except that no one would go for it. But it would ease some of the concerns.

Lee could sign a contract that descends in salary over the course of the deal, or at least stays the same. It's not unprecedented. Lee could get a big salary this year, when the Wiz are less likely to need all of their cap space, but the Wiz would still retain some of their cap flexibility in the next few years when the are more likely to need it. Kirk Hinrich's deal (if HoopsHype.com is correct) is structured this way. I know there are limits as to how much a contract can increase from year-to-year, but I don't know if there are limits as to how much they can decrease.

Again, no one involved is likely to agree to it, just throwing it out there as discussion fodder, or in case Ted is reading :)

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. Check this logo out and tell me "Bullets" had nothing to do with firearms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BaltimoreBullets.png

My Dad always told me that the name came from both the alliteration and that Triumph Explosives was both a large employer in the area and that the city was proud of the fact that Triumph helped win WW2 by supplying much of the munitions (bullets) used.

I can't verify this, but it seems more likely than the reason wikipedia gives for the name...after an athletic shoe.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 10:58 AM

Jacksonward1,

I have never seen that particular logo ever before on any Washington/Baltimore Bullets uniform.

Apparently, however, it must have been my bad eyesight as very young fella and black and white tv. Appears this logo was worn from 1963-1969.

I don't know why I have a picture stuck in my head of a basketball in a hoop as being a logo for the Baltimore Bullets.

In any event, the name Baltimore Bullets or Bullets should not be emphasized as emblematic for gun violence and a bad societal ill as it occurred in Washington, DC and as it still occurrs in many of our urban cities and suburbia all across this country.

And yes, Wikipedia does indicate that the name Bata Bullets does come from a shoe company in Harford that the original Baltimore Bullets was named from.

No relation to the current franchise, whose parent name the Chicago Packers, then the Chicago Zephers, the Baltimore Bullets, Capital Bullets, Washington Bullets and now the Washington Wizards.

It is unclear why the Baltimore Bullets picked the name and the logo when they moved to Baltimore. Maybe it came from the then folded American Basketball League team the Baltimore Bullets which was named from a shoe company, but that clearly doesn't the logo which has bullets on it.

Maybe we can get some more help from some folks that have more first hand knowledge than you and I.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 9, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

"If anything, D'Antoni's departure shows how much better Nash made him look, not the other way around."
Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 11:58 AM

---
Absolutely. Anyone who would argue with this statement just hasn't been WATCHING games. Stats are interesting; in many (perhaps most) cases, the same stat can be used to argue two diametrically opposing points of view.

Posted by: nmik | June 9, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

If I recall correctly, "Bullet" was coined from "faster than a speeding bullet", not necessarilly to murder and mayhem.

In football, you have the Detroit Lions, not Detroit Lambs. Chicago Bears are another team that used names that hinted at "fear" and "intimidation" so I don't see the problem with "Bullets".

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 9, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

ts35 -
Thanks for having a reasonable take on things.

I know Lee can jump...as I've seen him get up many a time.

Is he bounding out of the building like Mcgee? Of course not.

I guess my point is that someone needs to teach McGee how to play Center appropriately and I'd rather it be someone that has a lot to contribute than a high dollar/short term, aged, rent-a-vet.

I agree that 12 mil a year may be too much but at 8-10 it is a no brainer.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I think flohr has a brought up an interesting point. We need to restore the historical tradition. Forget the Wizards and the Bullets and rename the team the Zephyrs.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I think flohr has a brought up an interesting point. We need to restore the historical tradition. Forget the Wizards and the Bullets and rename the team the Zephyrs.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Gman...I am not saying that we shouldn't use the name or that Bullets should automatic (get it??) ly mean mayhem and murder.

Larry said that the name had no connection with guns and I showed the logo that had an actual bullet on it.

I like the name Zephyrs and it has an historic relevance. It has nothing to do with DC though.

Posted by: jacksonward1 | June 9, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

jw1,

I don't know if I'd go so far as "no-brainer". At 4/$40M or 5/$50M, they still have to be pretty convinced he represents a big-time piece of the puzzle, because short of being able to get rid of Arenas, signing Lee to a contract like that, takes you out of the running for most of the other big-time FAs for this year and next year.

But it would at least bring it into the realm of consideration.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

If the baseball guys had just stuck with Senators like they were supposed to, we could totally have gone with Nationals. The name has a basketball history to it, albeit as the team that ultimately became the 76ers

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm all for a name change! I have never like Wizards.

Even more I want a return to our red, white and blue team colors!! Even if not the 70's style, we could go to something more modern along the lines of what the olympic team USA had, or something like the Caps.

Back when they had the original bogus "contest" to rename the team I submitted the name Washington Glory. The Post actually had an article about the names submitted and mentioned it was their favorite. I was inspired to the name from the movie Glory, and thought it would match with the theme of DC, the stars and stripes, and a winning image.

I'd love a return to The Washington Bullets though!

Almost anything would be better than Wizards.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 9, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Nash's stats dropped since D'Antoni left? I'm not seeing that.

'07-08 (D'Antoni's last season with the Suns)
Games: 81 Minutes 34.3 Points 16.9 FG 50.4% 3Pt 47% FT90.6% Assts 11.1 Stls .6 TOs 3.64

'09-10
Games: 81 Min 32.8 Pts 16.5 FG 50.7% 3s 42.6% Assts 11.0 Stls 0.5 TOs 3.64

Don't know how you can get much closer than that. The guy's two years older and it doesn't appear he's lost much.

Most overrated multiple MVP? IMO a silly statement. It's most valuable player, right? Who's been more valuable to his club than Nash to the Suns?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see us go basically youth movement. I don't want us to sign any major free agents.

I would like to keep Singleton and Livingston. Foye, Miller and Howard, as well as Oberto and Boykins can all go. Maybe keep Miller if he can be had cheap.

I would like to see us add some more draft picks.

The one roster move I strongly advocate is moving Nick Young. I don't think this guy gets it. Anyone think we could actually get a low 1st back for NY?? Maybe a pair of 2nd rounders? If we can deal NY with our trade exemption and pick up a couple 2nd rounders I'd be all for it!

With our later picks some players I'd like to get are Centers Brian Zoubek and Paulao Prestes, forward Gani Lawal, and guard Greivis Vasquez.

I would try to add players like this, along with Wall.

Starting 5 of Wall, Arenas, Thornton, Blatche, McGee.

Bench of Livingston, Vasquez, Ross, Miller (maybe), Lawal, Singleton, Prestes, Zoubek.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 9, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"Absolutely. Anyone who would argue with this statement just hasn't been WATCHING games."

Ok, y'all forcing me to go pure haterade on your Canuck buddy.

By watching the games, you see that the single biggest reason the Suns never played in the Finals is because Mr.MVP was consistently toasted by TParker- the opposing PG! Amare had monstrous series against TimVP, maybe the best games of his career. Meanwhile Nash just gets demolished by Parker and that's that.This in Nash's supposed prime en route to 2 MVPs.

I don't seem to recall Stockton (in his prime) being demolished by an opposition PG as the reason the Jazz ever lost a playoff series, but maybe I'm forgetting something.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Who's been more valuable to his club than Nash to the Suns?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 4:06 PM

Every year there are several guys who are absolutely indispensable to their team's success, so the question "Who is more valuable" is kind of bogus anyway.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

More info on the name Bullets:

"Historical Moments:
1963/64: After 2 nicknames in 2 years in Chicago, the NBA's newest franchise was on the move, heading to Baltimore where they paid tribute to the city's first NBA team named the Bullets, who got their name because they played in an armory. The original Bullets played in the ABL and NBA then called the BAA from 1944 until folding during the 1953/54 season."

So, it appears that the current franchise was named after the original Baltimore Bullet team. Named Bullets because they played in an Armory.

I kinda feel now that by Abe giving up the name Bullets, it tarnished the name and now has unwittingly attached an image to the name itself that he was trying to get rid of in the first place. And the name Wizards hasn't done anything to vanquish those perceptions. Ironic.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 9, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

By watching the games, you see that the single biggest reason the Suns never played in the Finals is because Mr.MVP was consistently toasted by TParker-
Posted by: divi3

I don't know that I buy that, but I think you can make a strong case that they wouldn't even have been in the neighborhood of that series except for him.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Replace Nash with an above average PG and they don't even make the playoffs.

Change the name Teddy.
No one likes the Wizards.
No one likes the unis.
I haven't heard a replacement name that I'd vote for yet.
RWB tho is the way to go with new unis.
After all we are the capital of the U S of A.
You'd make a fortune selling out the old unis & the new ones too.
Maybe put a few more butts in the seats also.

Posted by: VBFan | June 9, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"If he were asking for $8M-$10M a year, I think the opinion would be more split."

I actually think it would be less split, because pretty much everyone would be on board with that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Stern decreed Nash win back-to-back MVPs so as to lure back fans turned off by the Brawl at the Palace. The "nba is just a bunch of thugs" stuff does not fall on deaf ears at the league's front office.

Nash was the perfect poster boy for rehabilitating the league's image, the anti-thug if you will.

And as lil says.....that's real talk! ;)

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I actually think it would be less split, because pretty much everyone would be on board with that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 5:19 PM

I wouldnt be onboard with a 5yr/$50mill contract for David Lee. Don't feel the team is ready for that type of commitment until next offseason when it's clearer what the Arenas situation is and also exactly what type of team we have and are trying to build.

Not a knock on Lee at all, just feel the team is too ambiguous currently to add long term pieces now.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

although I guess he could traded easily after 2-3yrs if need be, so could be a nice future asset

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Looking back just at the box scores divi, it kind of looks like Amare and Duncan tended to cancel each other out and Parker and Nash tended to cancel each other out. The difference makers seem to be Gino, who went off in a couple of games, Game 6 in particular, and David Stern, who wiped out Diaw and Amare for Game 5. Mind you, without those two, the Suns only lost by 3. Kind of speaks to Nash's floor leadership doesn't it?

By the way fellas, this all seems a really really long argument which started on a premise that we all agree on I think, that D'Antoni's system can lead to non-representative stats based on tempo.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Looking back just at the box scores divi, it kind of looks like Amare and Duncan tended to cancel each other out and Parker and Nash tended to cancel each other out. The difference makers seem to be Gino, who went off in a couple of games, Game 6 in particular, and David Stern, who wiped out Diaw and Amare for Game 5. Mind you, without those two, the Suns only lost by 3. Kind of speaks to Nash's floor leadership doesn't it?

By the way fellas, this all seems a really really long argument which started on a premise that we all agree on I think, that D'Antoni's system can lead to non-representative stats based on tempo.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Stern decreed Nash win back-to-back MVPs so as to lure back fans turned off by the Brawl at the Palace. The "nba is just a bunch of thugs" stuff does not fall on deaf ears at the league's front office.

Nash was the perfect poster boy for rehabilitating the league's image, the anti-thug if you will.

And as lil says.....that's real talk! ;)

Posted by: divi3

Lol, I know you're kidding, but in '05 the other leading vote getters were Shaq (not a thug), Dirk (not a thug), Duncan (not a thug), and Iverson (ok, maybe you have me on this one. I still say not a thug, but definitely a complicated individual).

In '06 he beat out LeBron (a punk but not a thug), Dirk (not a thug), Kobe (well........) and Chauncey Billups (not a thug).

And get it right, it was either The Malice at the Palace or The Basketbrawl.

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

And upon further reflection:

It seems that the reasoning behind naming the original Baltimore team the Bullets (cause they played in an armory) and the current team picking the name up as a tribute to them is even more ironic now, in that, to go back to the name Bullets might be poetic justice in that; probably the most famous or infamous event in the Verizon center is the gun-play incident by non other than one Gilbert Jay Arenas Jr.

The name Bulle may really be a curse and for that reason alone, I guess we oughta' brang' it back.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 9, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

How about we tone it down and call them the Washington Tasers?

After big 3s, instead of Hibachi, Gil could yell "I tased you bro!"

Posted by: ts35 | June 9, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"Every year there are several guys who are absolutely indispensable to their team's success, so the question "Who is more valuable" is kind of bogus anyway.Posted by: divi3"

I guess that was easier than answering the question.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"By watching the games, you see that the single biggest reason the Suns never played in the Finals is because Mr.MVP was consistently toasted by TParker-Posted by: divi3"

Umm, I watched those games, and it looked to me like the biggest problem for the Suns was Tim Duncan.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

The cold truth is that signing Lee (or Rudy Gay) moves us one step closer to mediocrity and one step further from awfulenss where we should (and will) dwell for at least one more year. The focus now has to be putting together a cheap, hungry squad, establishing a culture of scrap and hustle, all while buying into Flip's system and John Wall's leadership. Make it clear that this team always plays hard, stay under the cap, add talent through the draft and then make your free-agent splash at the highest level before Wall's rookie contract runs out. Gotta think long-term.

Posted by: mugsybol | June 9, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"By the way fellas, this all seems a really really long argument which started on a premise that we all agree on I think, that D'Antoni's system can lead to non-representative stats based on tempo.Posted by: ts35"

LOL well, they're representative of the tempo, right? But the tempo inflates certain offensive stats.

Of course, you could also argue that the stats of, say, Rajon Rondo are inflated by that offensive scheme, as well.

Imagine Rondo as the PG at Utah, where he'd be expected to hit from outside. The guy shot 21.2% from the arc this season.

Seems like we're willing to discount Nash as a system player, but give Rondo a free ride.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Can you imagine the name being changed back to the Washington Bullets and the lights go down on the first home game and music and light show pumps up and the MC goes: "And Starting For The New Washington Bullets at Shooting Guard GILBERT JAY ARENAS JJJUUNNIOOORR!!!

The Arena (no pun intended) would go crazy, and it would be the lead on every ESPN outake the next day.

Is the dollar green worth it???

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 9, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Aww dang. Freudian slip. Did I say shooting guard. Snap.

Aww hell. Maybe, thats what Gilbert was tryin' to tell everybody last December, that he is a shooting guard and not a point guard. Didn't know how to say it, so he thought he'd demonstrate.

Oh my word, I am having to much fun with this. Lovya' Gilbert. Just funnin.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 9, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Seems like we're willing to discount Nash as a system player, but give Rondo a free ride.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 6:03 PM

I discount Nash as a defensive turnstile and the only league MVP in nba history to have never played in a Finals for his career. Hadn't said anything one way or the other about rondo

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 6:21 PM | Report abuse

I guess that was easier than answering the question.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 5:51 PM

I didnt think you needed such obvious stuff spelled out.

How about DWade in '06, cant really make any argument that Nash was somehow more important to the Suns that year than Wade to the Heat.

And that's the type of list that can go on forever, because by the nature of the game 1 player is often hyper-critical to a team's success. In that same year, you get he same argument for Dirk, Kobe...all the usual suspects.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

The sun's superstar AS is demanding a 127 million for 6 years.What is he thinking, his defense is always a problem, he did not rebound in the playoff, he probably need more surgery some where in his eye or knee.
which GM is going to givce him maximum contract? I just could not see him signing for more than 17 million a year for the rest of his career.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 9, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

"Replace Nash with an above average PG and they don't even make the playoffs."

Replace him with Jason Kidd that year and they're a better team.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

"Seems like we're willing to discount Nash as a system player, but give Rondo a free ride."

To the extent that every coach has a system, isn't every player a system player to some extent?

Giving credit to D'Antoni's system for Nash's success discounts the facts that the numbers he put up under D'Antoni, (A) while slightly improved, weren't radically inflated from what he put up in Dallas and (B) are pretty much the same as the ones he's putting up under Gentry, whose system is different than D'Antoni's (although there is some continuity).

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Also, D'Antoni tried running the same system in Phoenix before he go Nash (with Marbury) and the same one in NY (with Duhon, Robinson, Crawford, and whoever else they had). How'd that work out?

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Also, D'Antoni tried running the same system in Phoenix before he go Nash (with Marbury) and the same one in NY (with Duhon, Robinson, Crawford, and whoever else they had). How'd that work out?

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 6:38 PM

Duhon holds the Knicks single game record for assists with 22 which was also the NBA season high for 2008. If that's not evidence of a system benefit then what is.

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: divi3 | June 9, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

"Duhon holds the Knicks single game record for assists with 22 which was also the NBA season high for 2008. If that's not evidence of a system benefit then what is."

The only thing it's evidence of is one game where a decently talented player got hot. (and since Duhon's 22 assist game--like Lee's 35-20-10 and Murray's 50 pt game--was against G.S., I suppose it's also evidence that the Warriors are perpetually godawful.) And even if that weren't the case . . . so what? How does Duhon getting 22 assists prove anything vis-avis- Steve Nash? It doesn't.

Again, Nash has proven his ability to be consistently productive at a high level under coaches and systems other than D'Antoni, which undercuts any argument that D'Antoni's system is primarily responsible for his success. By contrast, D'Antoni (and this is, in no way, even a slight exaggeration) has had absolutely no success as an NBA head coach in seasons when he did not coach Steve Nash.

D'Antoni's regular season record with Nash: 232-96. Without Nash: 75-139.

D'Antoni's postseason record with Nash: 26-25. Without Nash: 0-0.

So tell me, who benefited from whom?

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 9, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

I would'nt mind trading a pick for Marcin Gortat to Start at center for us. he did'nt look bad in the playoffs when D. Howard was in file trouble.

Posted by: dakel76 | June 9, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

"How about DWade in '06, cant really make any argument that Nash was somehow more important to the Suns that year than Wade to the Heat." posted by divi3

Alas, you don't have to. Wade's importance to the Heat in '06 doesn't diminish Nash's importance to the Suns. Wade could have won the award that year, too, if he got more votes. But that wouldn't mean he was more 'valuable' than Nash.

I don't know why this is such a difficult concept. When you have several candidates of roughly equal achievements, any one of them could win.

I think if you didn't treat your opinions as facts, it would be easier to see how someone else might disagree with them.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Josh Childress is an interesting player to think about. I think he was a teammate of Grunfeld's son at Stanford.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 9, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Oh, now I get it: the guy who dissed Nash is Bill Simmons.

Bill's famous for that stuff, you know. Check out his writings on Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers (idiots, both, in the Simmons view). Or his opinions of the Yankees, Jets, Colts, Duke basketball, the Canadiens (he really, really hates Montreal), and of course, the Lakers. Despises them all.

He's a talented writer and an entertaining pundit. Not actually statistician. Sort of a Mel Kiper type.

Some guys carve a niche out of controversy. I enjoy reading him. I don't necessarily see the logic in many of his arguments.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 9, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

horses mouth:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3797805

Well, you got the "horse" part right.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 10, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

"By the way fellas, this all seems a really really long argument which started on a premise that we all agree on I think, that D'Antoni's system can lead to non-representative stats based on tempo.Posted by: ts35"

LOL well, they're representative of the tempo, right? But the tempo inflates certain offensive stats.

Of course, you could also argue that the stats of, say, Rajon Rondo are inflated by that offensive scheme, as well.

Imagine Rondo as the PG at Utah, where he'd be expected to hit from outside. The guy shot 21.2% from the arc this season.

Seems like we're willing to discount Nash as a system player, but give Rondo a free ride.
Posted by: Samson151

I actually wasn't saying anything in particular about Nash. I see divi's point about his defense -- even though I think divi is overstating it -- but I think his overall contribution as a floor leader outweighs that. And I think people have demonstrated that his stats under different coaches have remained consistent.

I was actually referring to the jumping off point for this discussion, which was that David Lee's stats might be a bit inflated (his scoring more than his rebounding in my opinion) because he plays in an up-tempo system. So while he's a 20/10 guy for them, he might only be a 15/10 guy on another team. But he'd still be worth it. Because at the end of it, I try not to get too hung up on stats, but rather can guys play and how do they fit together.

Like with your Rondo example, how would he fare on the Jazz? My guess is just fine because he's a player. They might adjust their scheme for his talents versus Deron's, but they'd still be running Pick and Roll into the ground. His stats might look a little different, but he'd still be a great player. His triple-double the other night wasn't based on scheme or tempo.

Posted by: ts35 | June 10, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

And about Nash I guess I would say that he is a system player....to the extent that he is the system. Much like the Cavs with LeBron, or the 76ers with Iverson, their Suns' style is as much predicated on his abilities as anything else.

Posted by: ts35 | June 10, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

(That would obviously be the 76ers with Iverson in his heyday)

Posted by: ts35 | June 10, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: linda38 | June 12, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I responded to a Leonsis "Open Letter to Wizards Fans". I had two comments: one related to moving season ticket holders to better seats when attendance is low, the other related to early games so I could take my kids. His response is as follows:
""
Will never happen on my watch; Ted

In a message dated 6/15/2010 3:54:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gallas writes:
They have done it in the past. Managers have walked around the 400's with tickets in their hands and they give them to random persons. I have benefitted personally twice in the last 4 years and I really appreciated it then.

Don't forget games early enough for kids.

brandon

--- On Tue, 6/15/10, From: TheWashWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Open Letter To Wizards Fans
To: gallas
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 3:42 PM


THat doesn't work logistically sad to say. Ted

In a message dated 6/10/2010 5:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gallas writes:
When the stadium is fairly empty, move season ticket holder down to better seats. It looks better on tv and honors the indefatiguing fans that show up night in and night out.

Host more day games so that I can take my kids who have a bed time of 8pm.

brandon

--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Ted Leonsis
From: Ted Leonsis
Subject: Open Letter To Wizards Fans
To: gallas
Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 3:28 PM

Posted by: gallas | June 15, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

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