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What the draft moves mean for the Wizards


Nooo!! Don't you realize getting Kirk Hinrich helps LeBron James leave Cleveland! (Photo by Mike DiNovo/US Presswire)


In addition to landing a franchise foundation in John Wall, the 2010 NBA draft went a long way in establishing a new identity for the Wizards and creating some clarity as it relates to free agency. By agreeing to the trade with Chicago for Kirk Hinrich and the 17th overall pick, the Wizards revealed their hand as it relates to the futures of Randy Foye and Shaun Livingston: They will find employment elsewhere this summer.

The Wizards backcourt is going to be crowded with Wall, Hinrich and Gilbert Arenas taking the bulk of the minutes. Neither Livingston nor Foye has much interest in playing the role as a spot duty reserve. Both players are young and have proven that they should get quality minutes on an NBA team. It just won't happen in Washington. Livingston never seemed especially open to coming back, and the Wizards are not interested in making a $4.8 million qualifying offer to Foye when they have to address other needs in the front court. Makes sense, with more than $30 million committed to Arenas ($17.7 million), Hinrich ($9 million) and Wall ($4.3 million).

Quinton Ross picked up his $1.1 player option. The Wizards won't pick up Josh Howard's $11.8 million team option and may not be willing to make a large financial commitment to him coming off a torn ACL injury that could keep him out until December. And Mike Miller has already stated his desire to play for a contender after wasting the past four seasons of his career wallowing with lottery teams.

Andray Blatche is expected to be back in time for training camp, but his broken right foot does stunt what needed to be an important offseason following a 32-game stretch in which he finally started to put some production with his tremendous potential. The Wizards already had Blatche in mind when they selected French big man Kevin Seraphin and Clemson forward Trevor Booker, hoping that both players would provide a physical presence to battle against him in practice next season.

Seraphin is an athlete, considered the best European prospect, but he is also a project with limited offensive game. Booker also has little to offer offensively, but the rugged, 6-7 forward is a tenacious defender. During the Wizards' interviews with draft prospects that either played in the ACC or faced Clemson, one name repeatedly came up as the player who defended them toughest. Booker is expected to be formally introduced on Tuesday - and no, there won't be a red carpet display or a proclamation from Mayor Adrian Fenty - but I spoke with him briefly in Chicago at the NBA combine.

"One thing that people can't take away from me is how hard I go on the court," Booker said. "With my energy, my passion. I'm going leave everything on the court. I'm going to get after guys. I'm going to make guys better in practice."


I go hard. (Photo by Jamie Squire/Getty Images)

Booker is an above-average athlete with incredible speed. Wall's wheels have been well-documented, but did you realize that Booker is faster? At the combine, Booker recorded the fastest time in the three-quarter court sprint, measuring in at 3.10 seconds - or 0.04 seconds faster than Wall, Avery Bradley and Wesley Johnson. He's at least 30 pounds heavier than all of them. Booker's been compared to Paul Milsap, Carl Landry and Jason Maxiell, other undersized but gritty big men.

"We want to change our culture, of how people perceive our team. Change the culture of how we play," Coach Flip Saunders said. "The thing that Ernie [Grunfeld] and I [talked about], having been here and going through the process and having been in Detroit and Minnesota, where we had success, we had players, they were dogs. They were competitors and we didn't get pushed around a lot. I thought we had a tendency to get pushed around a little bit. We said we were going to get guys who were competitive and that were going to go after it. We can put ourselves in a situation where we're not going to get pushed around."

Hinrich also fits into that philosophy, with his reputation as a nasty - some would argue dirty - defender. Grunfeld really loves Hinrich, but if the Bulls are able to lure LeBron James away, then Cleveland fans might want to admit that there really is something to a rivalry with the Wizards. If James leaves, Grunfeld would've been responsible to helping out: He shipped Antawn Jamison to Cleveland at the trade deadline, thus eating up all of the Cavaliers' cap space this summer, and then cleared the path for a departure to Chicago by taking on Hinrich.

But the Wizards are no longer looking to outscore teams, finally realizing that defense is the key element to most successful teams in the league. They have always talked about getting better on that end, but never committed to getting the personnel that wanted to shut down opponents.

The Wizards will need to address their scoring void in free agency, which begins on Thursday. Seraphin will earn $1.2 million - and the Wizards are only responsible for $500,000 toward his buyout from his French team, Cholet - and Booker is slated to get $1 million. Combined with Wall and Hinrich, the Wizards have added $15.5 million to the payroll for next season. Second-rounder Hamady N'Diaye, should he get a guaranteed deal, will come at a low price, around $700,000.

With the salary cap projected to be around $56.1 million, the Wizards would have $43.1 million committed to 11 players, leaving them about $12 million to sign two or three more players. But don't forget that the Wizards still have two trade exceptions worth $6 million and $4.5 million, which can be used to acquire players once the cap space is gone. The exceptions can't be used in the Hinrich deal. But the Wizards also don't need to be in a rush, since those exceptions don't expire until next February.

By Michael Lee  |  June 27, 2010; 6:38 PM ET
Categories:  John Wall , Kevin Seraphin , Kirk Hinrich , NBA draft , Trevor Booker  
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Next: Andray Blatche may return by training camp, but Wizards won't return to Richmond

Comments

So Randy Foye is moving on therefore MORON Grunfeld gave up the #5 pick in last year's draft for Mike Miller!

Please someone out there tell me how great Grunfeld is please so you can share some of your weed.

Posted by: nativedc | June 27, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

I just read the next paragraph...so Mike Miller is leaving too? Ernie Grunfeld!

Posted by: nativedc | June 27, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Nice post, Michael Lee.

I like what I'm hearing and reading from the Wizards since there appears to be a method to their madness after all. It's similar to what was written the day after the draft in Sports Illustrated:

"Kirk Hinrich. He was on the market for months and months until the Bulls finally gave him away to the Wizards on draft day, along with the No. 17 pick and cash to help cover his two-year, $17 million contract. This deal could affect a fundamental change in the Wizards' franchise as they move from a soft bunch of scorers to a tougher team that defends.

No. 1 pick John Wall should emerge as one of the league's best defenders at point guard; No. 23 pick Trevor Booker will come off the bench to defend as a forward (as well as in practice every day); and Hinrich will be setting the example for both of them. Hinrich isn't the best defender in the league, but he is one of the nastiest guys at that end of the floor. If he were a hockey player, he would be called "chippy'' because he infuriates opponents in a Bruce Bowen kind of way. He bumps, jabs and shoulders opposing scorers without worrying whether they might like him afterward. The Wizards have needed his kind of influence for a long time. It won't always be pretty, but no team can go far without it."


I don't know if their evil plan will work or not, but at least they do have a plan.

Posted by: tgif11 | June 27, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Who puts together these polls? Either each option needs to be exclusive, or we need to be able to select multiple answers. Come on, WaPo.

Posted by: Tank2 | June 27, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Nice post, Michael Lee.

I like what I'm hearing and reading from the Wizards since there appears to be a method to their madness after all. It's similar to what was written the day after the draft in Sports Illustrated:

"Kirk Hinrich. He was on the market for months and months until the Bulls finally gave him away to the Wizards on draft day, along with the No. 17 pick and cash to help cover his two-year, $17 million contract. This deal could affect a fundamental change in the Wizards' franchise as they move from a soft bunch of scorers to a tougher team that defends.

No. 1 pick John Wall should emerge as one of the league's best defenders at point guard; No. 23 pick Trevor Booker will come off the bench to defend as a forward (as well as in practice every day); and Hinrich will be setting the example for both of them. Hinrich isn't the best defender in the league, but he is one of the nastiest guys at that end of the floor. If he were a hockey player, he would be called "chippy'' because he infuriates opponents in a Bruce Bowen kind of way. He bumps, jabs and shoulders opposing scorers without worrying whether they might like him afterward. The Wizards have needed his kind of influence for a long time. It won't always be pretty, but no team can go far without it."


I don't know if their evil plan will work or not, but at least they do have a plan.

Posted by: tgif11 | June 27, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I see kalorama is posting under one of his many pseudonyms. sheesh, does the nigg@ ever take a day off the blog or what?

Posted by: Risa_L | June 27, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

So Randy Foye is moving on therefore MORON Grunfeld gave up the #5 pick in last year's draft for Mike Miller!

Please someone out there tell me how great Grunfeld is please so you can share some of your weed.

Posted by: nativedc

/////////////////////////

Even though he couldn't have foreseen it, another way of looking at this is that EG gave up the #5 in order to position the Wizards to draft the #1 overall in 2010.

Doesn't seem like such a bad outcome to me.

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse


Even though he couldn't have foreseen it, another way of looking at this is that EG gave up the #5 in order to position the Wizards to draft the #1 overall in 2010.

Doesn't seem like such a bad outcome to me.

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 7:40 PM

Well, you know, Ernie's admirers have always maintained that he was a genius. lol.

Posted by: and_1 | June 27, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it belongs. Abe Pollin decided that Arenas and Jamison were going to be resigned to the team in 2008. He also decided that the team in 2009 merely needed to add more veterans for depth, causing the trade of the #5 pick.

Grunfeld can be faulted perhaps for not being able to talk Pollin out of some of these moves, but as we saw with Snyder an out of control or determined owner can and sometimes does call the shots and that often is when mistakes are made.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | June 27, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

In 2009, they went all in to try and go deep into the playoffs. It failed miserably. I wondered at the time if Abe's failing health had anything to do with that strategy (he wanted to see one last shot) or if the window was closing on these guys and they had to make something happen before it closed for good. EG did what he could. Everything else imploded.

That said, I'm still wary of the other draft picks, but yes, having a detailed plan is nice to read.

Posted by: tgerbracht | June 27, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

I agree Grunfeld blew last year's draft by trading away all the picks for Foye and Miller, who were lousy, and are now leaving. If the team further implodes this season, it will be time for Ted to fired Grunfeld.

Posted by: john24 | June 27, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Ernie Grunfeld has incriminating photos - that is the only possible explanation to his being employed in any capacity in any role by any employer doing any job on planet earth.

This is what Bill Simmons of ESPN wrote,

"4:31: Our first four GMs on the clock: Ernie Grunfeld (Washington), Ed Stefanski (Philly), Rod Thorn (Jersey), David Kahn (Minnesota) … or, as they're better known, "Mount Duncemore."

Posted by: nativedc | June 27, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Ok. The key move will be Arenas to a Lebron-loser team. David Aldridge mentioned the Knicks. David Lee? I'd still package Blatche and Arenas to Toronto for Bosh. ANd this team will be two seasons away from winning so in the meantime we all need to CHILL.

Posted by: minorthread | June 27, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse


I agree Grunfeld blew last year's draft by trading away all the picks for Foye and Miller, who were lousy, and are now leaving. If the team further implodes this season, it will be time for Ted to fired Grunfeld.

Posted by: john24 | June 27, 2010 8:16 PM

Concur it was Pollin's fault. He wanted the cold, hard cash from trading the second pick last year. Grunfeld never got a dime of that money.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 27, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Does P.O.S grunfeld think we could not have signed someone in FA with the 23 million we had under the cap before the trade hinrich? We could have picked up those two clowns we got without moving up in the draft. SMH

Posted by: rickymartin94 | June 27, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

grunfeld traded the 5th pick last year because we were in "win now" mode and getting two quality veterans in foye and miller would have added much needed depth instead of relying on a rookie. in hindsight, it's a wasted pick, but at the time, it was reasonable. with abe's health deteriorating, it only made sense to go all in and try to make a run last season. it just wasn't meant to be. we didn't have enough talent on the roster outside of arenas and butler. jamison was always an overrated player. solid offensively, but offered very little on defense. haywood was essentially a stiff, and stevenson couldn't throw it in the ocean or finish on a consistent basis. overall, the team was never a championship contender.

Posted by: swishjobs | June 27, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

If Mike Miller has his way, he's out the door. So all in all, EG gave up the 2009 #5 for a year's worth of rental from RF&MM. Minnesota used that pick on a guy that hasn't worn an NBA uniform yet.

It's also not guaranteed that RF is moving on. After all, if Arenas has indeed played his last game as a Wizard, RF could have some minutes come his way.

Even if they both leave, it just opens up cap space, which in this off-season is the coin of the realm.

Posted by: mabkhar | June 27, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired. did you celebrate like it was new year's eve and order a drink for everybody in the bar when blatche broke his foot? are you hoping that john wall ruptures his achilles tendon in the summer league? want flip to abruptly quit on the last day of training camp in october? you guys are pitiful.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | June 27, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

I can understand having to lose Livingston. I can understand taking Hinrich, a tough defending guard, to get the 17th pick. I can understand drafting Booker, a small but really tough guy. After that...STUPID

First off Booker is not a guy you use two picks to trade up a little to get. Not when your in the Wizard's position and need as many young guys as you can get. We could have gotten a combination of Whiteside, Varnado, Jerome Jordan, Pittman, Alabi, Gani Lawal, or, possibly Booker for acquiring just Booker (and N'diaye, but the point is there were better options on the way).

Were not the team for Seraphin; that guy needed to go to a team like the Lakers, whose fans could care less who was just drafted, and who would not require the guy to play immediately. To pull the trigger on 17, the Wiz needed for one of the attractive ready to play forwards or Cole Aldrich to be available. They were not at 17. Even Larry Sanders was gone by then (kudos to the Bucks for making a good pick). EG is not GMGM, I do not just his ability to evaluate unknown talent; he has yet to demonstrate success at this (and don't count Blatche, b/c the upside there was always obvious, he just has personality defects). Again, Hinrich is a good vet presence, but we needed a better pick with him if it meant losing a promising SG.

I say pick up Foye's K anyway and pray someone gets desperate enough for Arenas (wouldn't it be hilarious if that team becomes the Bulls?). That way we have Wall, Foye, and Young as a young back-court with the vet Hinrich = I like that. Alas, I can live with Arenas over Foye; more talented, still young, and could still revive his career in Washington. Too bad are thin front court is further away than it could have been. Seraphin better work out as a starter or reliable 1st-option reserve, and not Ernie's "you can't fire me yet, wait for Seraphin, just wait"...Yes, I did just say that is why you picked him EG, what are you gonna do, make even worse moves than you already have? Ugh-oh, he wouldn't actually read and listen to these things right?

Posted by: mcgratsp | June 27, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

ML, any legitimacy to the rumors that we will sign J-Chill to an offer sheet this week? If Joe Johnson is part of the second wave of free agents to be in play after LJ and Bosh are signed it will put the Hawks in a bind since they will have 7 days to match as they have anted up a qualifying offer. If they match then there is likely no money for JJ. What amount of money would we need to offer to discourage the Hawks from matching? J-Chill would be a really nice piece to the puzzle Grunfeld is putting together. Still young and a high energy guy at the 2 or 3. The alternative is obviously make a play for Rudy Gay who is more skilled offensively but would obviously command a lot more money.

Curious what the board feels since we aren't going to be a championship competitor for at least a couple more years. Do you make a large commitment to a Rudy now and potentially get handcuffed financially next year when Carmelo might be available? Do you make a lesser commitment for somebody like a J-Chill now? Do you accept it is going to be a long slow climb and there is a very real possibility of a lockout next year so you keep your options open and slowly build the team over time?

Posted by: izaballa | June 27, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

"I'll have to give Ernie a call; has he lost his mind?" said Dave Checketts, the former Garden and Knicks president.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 27, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

The past couple of years, EG makes the horrendous moves of signing mediocre players to long term lucrative contracts and spends considerable time trying to move them at the deadline literally functioning from a substantial position of weakness. He succeeds in moving them, create considerable cap flexibility to only turn back and spend half of it on...... Hinrich????? The very same Hinrich that Chicago, a couple of years after realizing it was a huge signing mistake (ala EG), have been aggressively trying to move him with no success.
There was very little way EG could have managed to marginalize a draft where he had a potential game changer on his lap at the # 1 pick and EG managed to rain on his own parade.
And it's appalling that many on here are applauding the moves. This isn't a hit on Hinrich particularly, because he is a decent player, but at $ 17 millions the next 2 years??? After you struggled so much and operated from a position of weakness trying to move the similar mistakes you signed???
Needless to say that in the process, you may become a despised team (thus negatively impacting future trades) by potentially helping a Chicago team building a dynasty. And.... OKC, in a very similar deal (obtaining 1 lower pick) only managed to absorb a 1-year $3 million deal??
Only someone like Kalo or Melodious would somehow debate that EG made great moves just like he argued this time last year that getting Miller/Foye for the 5th pick would be a splashing success.
Oh wait, in a few months, they will be talking about hindsight.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 27, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it belongs. Abe Pollin decided that Arenas and Jamison were going to be resigned to the team in 2008. He also decided that the team in 2009 merely needed to add more veterans for depth, causing the trade of the #5 pick.

Grunfeld can be faulted perhaps for not being able to talk Pollin out of some of these moves, but as we saw with Snyder an out of control or determined owner can and sometimes does call the shots and that often is when mistakes are made.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a bold-face lie that is easily refuted by Ernie Grunfelds own words

"I didn't feel like there was anybody at the five spot who could fit into our rotation," Grunfeld said. "I don't think there are any guarantees in the draft and people are saying this is a weaker draft than normal, so for us to be able to turn the No. 5 pick into two players who can help us immediately and help us for years to come, we felt very good about it."

^^^That was ERNIE's judgment at the time and it has proven to be an abject failure.

Although only %22 of Post readers support Ernie's moves, we are stuck with him and we have to hope these moves work-out. Seraphin could end-up being a poor-mans Dwight Howard and Booker is certainly a tough-nosed undersized PF. Let's see how this works in the fall.

Posted by: closg | June 27, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired. did you celebrate like it was new year's eve and order a drink for everybody in the bar when blatche broke his foot? are you hoping that john wall ruptures his achilles tendon in the summer league? want flip to abruptly quit on the last day of training camp in october? you guys are pitiful.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl

They'll never admit it, but I think what you've said rings true for a lot of the Ernie-bashers on the blog. If the team is successful, they know that Ernie stays.

Posted by: and_1 | June 27, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired. did you celebrate like it was new year's eve and order a drink for everybody in the bar when blatche broke his foot? are you hoping that john wall ruptures his achilles tendon in the summer league? want flip to abruptly quit on the last day of training camp in october? you guys are pitiful.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | June 27, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

None of that is necessary. The team will suck for at least 3 years and even longer exponentially every season Grunfailed is retained...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 27, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

"Only someone like Kalo or Melodious would somehow debate that EG made great moves just like he argued this time last year that getting Miller/Foye for the 5th pick would be a splashing success.Oh wait, in a few months, they will be talking about hindsight.
Posted by: Utilityman1"

Actually that's me that talks about hindsight. I certainly didn't argue that trading the 5th for Miller/Foye would be a 'splashing success', but it did seem to make sense at the time. Those were two positions that needed bolstering on a team that was supposed to make a serious run. When that run failed to materialize, the trade looked terrible, and a whole bunch of people jumped on Ernie with both feet.

There's nothing particularly wrong with Chicago building a dynasty, provided they're willing to pay the price. If they get LeBron and Bosh, they'll be heavy favorites, but they won't have a lot of $$ left for anyone else. It's not a particularly deep club in the first place. Suppose they don't win the title everyone expects them to win? How do the fans react? What if they don't become a dynasty?

Then we'll really see some hindsight.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 27, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

"how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired."

Dude, it's not that at all. I have been on this blog for YEARS and many of the regulars are diehard fans. We don't always disagree, but there's good people on this blog.

Ernie Grunfeld has like 99.9% turned into Vinny Cerrato, and I'm getting tired of it.

I will be the first to say EG is a fine "trader" but he never goes into a draft with a "plan." The only guy he has ever drafted here that has made any noise is Blatche. Beyond that, nothing.

Ted has publicly came out and said he wants to build through the draft. Ok well, that's not EG's strong point now is it?

I just don't see a plan here, except to draft "projects" and hope they turn into something. I don't have a lot of confidence in EG right now.

So basically going into the season the Wiz have 2 projects starting in thier front court, a rookie, a streaky defender, and a guy who poops in other people's shoes and plays with guns in thier back court.

**sigh**

I'll still be watching though. :)

Who is coming out next year in the lottery?? That's a serious question FYI. :)

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 27, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

And.... OKC, in a very similar deal (obtaining 1 lower pick) only managed to absorb a 1-year $3 million deal??

The trade that OKC made with NO is a more fair comparison to the Hinrich deal. In both cases the teams were moving up for a player that they wanted. OKC gave up the 21 and 26 picks for the 11, and took on Mo Pete's $6.6 mil. contract. Mo Pete and his expiring contract have very little value for OKC. Add $6 mil. for the 1st round picks(they were going for at least $3 mil. a piece) and you have OKC investing $12.6 mil. for #11. It's hard to see how that deal is much better than the one Ernie did. The Wizards want Hinrich, and invested $14 mil. for him and #17.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 27, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

If anyone wants to second guess the draft picks, here's a link for you:
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/6/26/1536017/the-oklahoma-city-thunder-take-the

My view is that the Wizards came out of the draft with five good players. They had a plan, they did their homework, and they executed the plan. Now, it is time to move on to the next phase -- summer league. If you want to second guess every personnel move, you will drive yourself crazy. And how about that trade of Ben Wallace for Ike Austin, by the way?

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 27, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

"First off Booker is not a guy you use two picks to trade up a little to get. Not when your in the Wizard's position and need as many young guys as you can get."

The Wiz have plenty of young guys. Roster will include Blatche, Nick Young, and McGee, plus Wall, Seraphin, Booker, and probably Ndiaye. And maybe a rookie free agent, too. That's more than half the team. Figure the club loses Livingston, Josh Howard, Miller & Foye, and figure Blatche, McGee, Wall, and Booker possibly start. That's a really young club.

"We could have gotten a combination of Whiteside, Varnado, Jerome Jordan, Pittman, Alabi, Gani Lawal, or, possibly Booker for acquiring just Booker (and N'diaye, but the point is there were better options on the way)."

I guess the assumption is that those guys are better than Booker, or that there's some advantage to having more than one of them? The only comparable to Booker in that group is Lawal, and I would have been perfectly happy with him. I thought at one point they'd take a power center like Pittman but you must admit he's ridiculously heavy and we in Washington know what a problem that can turn out to be.

But I guess if you drafted one muscled young power inside player, you wouldn't necessarily feel the need to draft another.

"..(and don't count Blatche, b/c the upside there was always obvious.), he just has personality defects)."

Blatche's upside wasn't obvious enough to prevent him from being passed over 48 times. That sounds like -- wait for it -- 20-20 hindsight.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 27, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Didn't like giving up the #30 and #35 picks to move up to pick Booker. He's very limited and we could have gotten him with the later picks plus another player like Vornado who had some size. With Blatche potentially out through September, the Wiz could have used another big body out of the draft.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 27, 2010 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Even though he couldn't have foreseen it, another way of looking at this is that EG gave up the #5 in order to position the Wizards to draft the #1 overall in 2010.

Doesn't seem like such a bad outcome to me.

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 7:40 PM

Well, they could've been just as bad without Randy Foye and Mike Miller while having Rubio as their #5 pick from '09 stashed in Europe. Prior to the '09 draft his camp was sending out signals that Rubio wasn't thrilled about the idea of playing for the Wizs since they had a PG in Gilbert. Rubio had a good year over there and still holds a lot of trade value for Minnesota if they elect to trade him down the road. However it could've been the Wizs holding the "rights" to Rubio and using him as trade leverage to a desperate team in a year or two. Just my thoughts...

But, we must move on, and yes, I'm grateful that we have the WALL on our team now!

Posted by: humen8r | June 27, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

mcgratsp, I'm not sure how Gil offended you so severely -was he talking about your mom or breaking off your girl? It HAS to be personal for you to say that Foye is more talented than Gil. I'm not a big fan of what the guy did to drag the franchise down either, but come on, Foye couldn't hold Gil's jock last season when Arenas was returning from two years of basketball hiatus. I'm not saying Foye isn't a good player, but let's at least be honest when we're tossing around the hyperbole.

Grunfeld can usually kick rocks as far as I'm concerned, but it's unfair to hold him accountable for (a) not being able to see into the future and (b) following the objectives of an owner in win now mode. No, he wasn't going to come out and say "I did it because Abe told me to" that would undermine both his authority as the GM and his relationship with the owner. If you think a bad draft or two will get you fired, try calling out the owner of the company and saying that everything that's gone wrong is his fault.

Washington made the right move for THAT team. They felt that they were a piece or two from really competing, they were trying to win one before the aging team was no longer capable and the aging owner was no longer around to see it happen. In HINDSIGHT it wasn't the right move (and even then some of us questioned the decision) but EVERYONE who knows the game thought that the move placed the team in the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference. If it hadn't all imploded and the team made a deep playoff run, most of you would be kissing Grunfeld's hindparts instead of demanding his head on a platter.

The bottom line is that the guys with the money make the decisions. They chart the course, the GMs just find them the quickest route. Now the team is taking a different course completely with a different owner in charge. NO ONE really expects this team to compete this season and a high priced FA signing would only serve to fill seats, not build a champion.

It's the lean times like this that show where the true fans are. I've been backing bad Bullets teams since I was two (I'm 34 now) and I'm as ready for a 'Ship as the next guy, but I've been watching the rest of the league too, and champs aren't built overnight or by throwing money around just because you have it to throw around.

Exhibit some patience here. Even the impatient haters have to realize this team is FINALLY on the right road, but you can't rush the natural progress.

Posted by: bullets | June 27, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired. did you celebrate like it was new year's eve and order a drink for everybody in the bar when blatche broke his foot? are you hoping that john wall ruptures his achilles tendon in the summer league? want flip to abruptly quit on the last day of training camp in october? you guys are pitiful.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl


True, true, all true.

They will be very sad when the team's fortunes improve this season and Ernest Grunfeld receives his generous contract extension next year. But that's their problem.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 27, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

It's easy to say after the fact that the Miller-Foye trade was a dud for Pech-Songaila-Etan-#5.

No one knows that what the future holds.

In 2008-09 it looked like the Wizards were positioned to make a decent run. No one could have reasonably foreseen a Jamison injury in pre-season, a Miller injury early in the season, and the Arenas gun-flap in December.

Aside from Blake Griffin it's pretty clear that EG didn't think too much of the picks likely to fall to #5. In hindsight it looks like some of the available players at the #5 slot could turn into quality Pros -- Jennings, Rubio, Jonny Flynn, and Stephen Curry all would have been available. Still, at least on paper, Wall projects to be a better option than those players at PG. If it had been Jordan Hill, DeRozan, Hansborough, etc, instead, I'm not so sure the Wizards really missed their ship.

On balance the trade looks like a wash to me. If the Wizards front office could have known in the summer of 2009 what we now know AND STILL have landed the #1 overall in 2010, I'm sure they would have done things differently. On balance though, EG's apparent assessment of the 2009 draft class doesn't seem entirely off the mark to me. For the 2008-09 season Miller and Foye had more to offer a team playing for the present than any of the picks available at #5 and beyond. Aside from Jennings, that assumption largely panned out.

The strongest criticism of EG's in 2009 is the fact that he passed up a chance to draft a quality role player like DeJuan Blair with the early 2nd rounder (a bunch of people on this blog made noise about that -- and they were right).

Instead he made a financial move designed to reduce the team's luxury tax burden. In hindsight Blair probably would have been worth an extra $700K last season in additional luxury tax penalties. That was a miscalculation likely driven more by business decisions than fielding the best possible team possible. Dealing the #5 pick was a calculated risk that didn't pan out. Passing on Blair and dealing away the early #2 was a kind of calculated risk too, but it was one driven by being penny-wise and pound foolish -- it was almost exclusively a financial, bottom-line decision. Not a basketball one.

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Correction: "in 2009-10" not "2008-09". How time flies . . .

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

"The strongest criticism of EG's in 2009 is the fact that he passed up a chance to draft a quality role player like DeJuan Blair with the early 2nd rounder (a bunch of people on this blog made noise about that -- and they were right)."

Now, I WILL agree with JP here - that was a gross miscalculation that had nothing to do with basketball.

Posted by: bullets | June 27, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

What ever
LJ to chicago with or with out JJ
wade and bash to miami.
if LJ decide to stay in ohio or wants to go New jersey, either boozer or AS will go to chicago.
If JJ accept the maximum offer from new york, may be bosh will follow him.bosh might go to NJ too.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 27, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse


"The strongest criticism of EG's in 2009 is the fact that he passed up a chance to draft a quality role player like DeJuan Blair with the early 2nd rounder (a bunch of people on this blog made noise about that -- and they were right)."

Now, I WILL agree with JP here - that was a gross miscalculation that had nothing to do with basketball.

Posted by: bullets | June 27, 2010 10:32 PM

Logic says that move had nothing to do with Grunfeld. The cash from selling that second rounder went straight to Abe's bank account. There was nothing in it for Ernie. So the only calculation involved was the interest Abe would earn on the money.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 27, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

I wanted DeJuan Blair also. With the Wizards at the salary cap level, I believe Pollin made EG pass on Blair. With the building of the previous regime EG did an excellent job. With cleaning up the Arenas mess EG did and excellent job. With winning the lottery pick EG got lucky. With this years picks, I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. The best player in Europe, a tough small forward, a smart combination guard in Hinrich, and a rebounding, shot blocker. Sounds good to me, and I can give EG another shot at doing what he has been proven to be great at, building teams. All GM's have to cater to the owner. Pollin did not throw away money, and the luxury tax was a waste to him. If Arenas had not lost his mind all of last years moves would have worked. He single handedly destroyed any hope for a winning season.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | June 27, 2010 11:04 PM | Report abuse

New York - Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.
They will grossly overpay to acquire those guys but New York MUST land free agents and become relevant again.

Miami - Wade and Bosh.
Some also think this is the eventual destination for one Brendan Todd Haywood.

NJ - Stoudemire.

Chi - Lebron.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 27, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

I hear the Nets are trying to move Derrick Favors in order to have enough money to be 30 million under the salary cap. Lets get him, and give away a future #2 pick. I would rather have him in two years than a number 2 pick. We would have great youth and talent at every starting position. Screw the players that want 15 million plus, but cant win the big ones or even go deep into the playoffs. Bosh, LBJ, Stoudemire, Johnson, Boozer, Nowitzki have proven they cant get it done, and dont have the fortitude to continue trying with their own team. Its all about the money. Which is not bad, but how about earning it.
C-McGhee, Ndia
PF - Blatche, Favors, Sepharin
SF, Horford, Booker, possibly Howard
SG - Arenas, Hinrich
PG - Wall, Arenas
Blatche will leave after this year for a pay day he feels he deserves, but the coach won't think he's proven himself to be reliable.
Free Agency - Haywood, possibly Nowitzki for he can play Center and is talented.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | June 27, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

"quality vs quantity" is the reason why grunfeld traded up to draft a potential starter in trevor booker. could they have taken him at #30? possibly, but not guaranteed. when you want something, you go after it and not wait for it to pass you by. this team does NOT need quantity, it needs good players.

Posted by: swishjobs | June 27, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

They will be very sad when the team's fortunes improve this season and Ernest Grunfeld receives his generous contract extension next year. But that's their problem.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 27, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

That is the same thing you wrote after last years draft?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

bullets,

The one thing I'd say about the Blair miscalculation is that it wasn't a major miscalculation. A major miscalculation screws up team plans for years; a more minor one can be fixed in a year or two.

e.g. Instead of paying $950K or $1 million each year for the next three years, it would probably cost somewhere closer to $5 to $6 million a year to fix it through free agency.

This is assuming that the Wizards didn't address the need through this year's draft. It's too early to tell.

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

What the draft moves mean for the Wizards...

Another couple of years without making the playoffs

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

What the draft moves mean for the Wizards...

Another couple of years without making the playoffs

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

A couple? You are being overly generous. This team got a very long road ahead thanks to Mr. Grunfeld.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 27, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Geez I thought it was a bad idea last year to trade the 5th pick for Miller and Foye. Who knew a year later they wouldn't even be here. I guess it goes up the mantle with the rest of the 1st round busts.

Ernie has somehow dodged bullets, no pun intended.

Posted by: Eman8 | June 27, 2010 11:47 PM | Report abuse

1bmffwb,

Ndia is probably headed to D-League for at least his first year. It's an open question whether he can make the adjustment to the NBA.

Blatche is under contract through the next two seasons.

Al Horford is a restricted free agent next saeason -- Atlanta isn't going to let him walk this year or any time soon.

Derrick Favors isn't going anywhere in the next 12 months unless a team can offer the Nets a lot more than a future #1 pick (or two).

Maybe you were joking?

Posted by: JPRS | June 27, 2010 11:50 PM | Report abuse

That is the same thing you wrote after last years draft?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:39 PM

No. He still had two years remaining on his contract. There was no need to talk extension yet.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 27, 2010 11:52 PM | Report abuse

how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl

I'm not rooting for the team to fail but then again I'm not 11 years old anymore which back then I was a blind follower and believed in whatever the team told me.

Now I am a realist and can make up my own mind and not listen to the BS the Wizards dish out and just because I wrie my opinion which is different from yours doesn't make me less of a fan.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Actually, he had three years left on his contract after last year's draft, but who's counting?

Posted by: melodious_thunk | June 27, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm not rooting for the team to fail....

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:56 PM

Liar.

Posted by: 2020doc | June 28, 2010 12:01 AM | Report abuse

JPRS - My mistake, old age, Al Thornton.
Blatche is signed for two years, but is already crying about getting paid more. Not a good sign that he wont do something stupid on or off the court. The Nets dont want a first round pick with guaranteed money assigned to the pick, they want cap relief. Just like Chicago took a #2 pick for Hinrich and the #17 pick next year, they didnt ask for a #1 next year. I said I read that they want to dump him and his hit to the salary cap this year which will be over two million dollars. They want a Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Stoudemire etc.. A combination of two max level contracts. If New Jersey thinks they can get a combination of two of these stars I think they will have to clear Favors off the payroll in order to accomplish the recruiting of two all stars.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | June 28, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Looks like EG needs to make a trade:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2010/06/27/draft_has_turned_into_a_glorified_trade_show/?page=full

The Pistons are looking to move Jason Maxiell and Chris Wilcox, who will combine to make $8 million next season. Maxiell is undersized but a fierce rebounder while Wilcox has the skills to be a productive player but lacks consistent desire . . .

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 28, 2010 12:32 AM | Report abuse

I'm not rooting for the team to fail but then again I'm not 11 years old anymore which back then I was a blind follower and believed in whatever the team told me.

Now I am a realist and can make up my own mind and not listen to the BS the Wizards dish out and just because I wrie my opinion which is different from yours doesn't make me less of a fan.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 27, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

So you're 12?

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 28, 2010 12:43 AM | Report abuse

"So you're 12?

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 28, 2010 12:43 AM | Report abuse "

Why do you still give a crap?

Take your $550 mil and disappear!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 28, 2010 12:57 AM | Report abuse

"no longer looking to outscore teams" that's a philosophy that will not win many games.

Posted by: hilow | June 28, 2010 6:44 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz ought to get Ariza for SF.

Wall
Hinrich
Ariza
Blatche
McGee

McGee needs to improve a lot on D compared to past performance (and get to 265).

Posted by: Izman | June 28, 2010 7:44 AM | Report abuse

IMO the last years draft decisions probably where motivated if not insisted by Abe Pollin. First of all, if that's the case, I understand it but it says that the team was not seriously beeing ran to compete for and win championships. No disrespect intended, I thought of Abe as a really good person.

Secondly, with all things considered I'm not sure this means Ernie should get a pass for that. His name is on those decisions as acting GM. Its never a good idea to trade away draft picks unless you are getting back a sure fire beast! It's crazy how people judge and critique players very strictly. Especially young players. Cutting them no slack in most instances but all kinds of excuses and benefit of the doubt are given to EG in these situations.

Posted by: millineumman | June 28, 2010 7:53 AM | Report abuse

but EVERYONE who knows the game thought that the move placed the team in the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference. If it hadn't all imploded and the team made a deep playoff run, most of you would be kissing Grunfeld's hindparts instead of demanding his head on a platter.

Posted by: bullets | June 27, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

I know the game and I went on record the day after the trade saying it was going to back fire because the big 3 couldn't win back before Gil was injured, MM is an average player and Foye was another tweener.

I knew last year the Wizards needed to start the rebuilding process and getting Jennings and Blair would have put the team ahead of where it is now.

Where did you come from and why did you steal my screen name?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 28, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

"If James leaves, Grunfeld would've been responsible to helping out: He shipped Antawn Jamison to Cleveland at the trade deadline, thus eating up all of the Cavaliers' cap space this summer, and then cleared the path for a departure to Chicago by taking on Hinrich."

Although I understand that Cleveland was the only club that really wanted Antwan at the end of last season, and Sacramento was ready and willing to take Hinrich if the Washington deal had fallen through...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 8:08 AM | Report abuse

"If James leaves, Grunfeld would've been responsible to helping out: He shipped Antawn Jamison to Cleveland at the trade deadline, thus eating up all of the Cavaliers' cap space this summer, and then cleared the path for a departure to Chicago by taking on Hinrich."

Although I understand that Cleveland was the only club that really wanted Antwan at the end of last season, and Sacramento was ready and willing to take Hinrich if the Washington deal had fallen through...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

"but EVERYONE who knows the game thought that the move placed the team in the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference. If it hadn't all imploded and the team made a deep playoff run, most of you would be kissing Grunfeld's hindparts instead of demanding his head on a platter.Posted by: bullets"

That's true anywhere. Winning is the cure-all. But it didn't happen and that's why Ernie's job would probably have been toast if a new owner hadn't come on the scene.

You have to admire Danny Ainge, taking the big gamble and trading all those young players and draft choices to Seattle and Minnesota for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, two talented but aging stars who carried the baggage of playoff frustration. And trading down from the number 6 spot in the draft to number 21 to take an unknown PG who demonstrably couldn't shoot -- Rajon Rondo.

Now that's guts. If you listen, you can probably hear the Celts fans howling all the way from 2005. Fortunately for Ainge, it all worked out.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 8:20 AM | Report abuse

At least no one here is blaming EG for causing the Gulf oil spill. I'm in the camp that supports the GM. I think it is highly likely that Abe Pollin did exert a heavy hand in constraining, if not controlling, Grunfeld. I think the former owner is definitely responsible for retaining Jamison and most likely for trading away last year's pick for MM and Foye. Where EG had a free hand, is in the actual draft selections and his record there is as good as any other GM. Yes, there was Pecherov but Blatche, Young and McGee are darn good picks considering where (relatively low position) they were taken. Leonsis is sticking with the right man. Or would you rather have the now available Danny Ferry whose only claim to fame is the brilliant #1 selection of Lebron James and who actually traded his way out of this year's free agency market by acquiring Jamison? Ferry, by the way, is rumored to be a prime candidate for the open Trailblazers' job.

Posted by: phil27 | June 28, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

"The Pistons are looking to move Jason Maxiell and Chris Wilcox, who will combine to make $8 million next season. Maxiell is undersized but a fierce rebounder while Wilcox has the skills to be a productive player but lacks consistent desire . . .
Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Both very talented guys, and Gary Williams was right when he said Wilcox left too early. Maxiell's game is mostly energy and that means he's better in short bursts off the bench, but he sure took it to the Wiz last year.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

I'm ok with the draft picks, however I am not sure if I'm sold on taking Hinrich and his salary. Now we only have 12 million or so to sign a FA. Was Grunfeld not confident we would have a shot at getting a max player with the 20million or so we had before taking Hinrich? I would have like to see us try for Boozer or Amare. Oh well, let's see what we do now. Just seems we have never been able to address the low post position with a decent big man.

Posted by: barrysmith1 | June 28, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

This is a bold-face lie that is easily refuted by Ernie Grunfelds own words

"I didn't feel like there was anybody at the five spot who could fit into our rotation," Grunfeld said. "I don't think there are any guarantees in the draft and people are saying this is a weaker draft than normal, so for us to be able to turn the No. 5 pick into two players who can help us immediately and help us for years to come, we felt very good about it."

^^^That was ERNIE's judgment at the time and it has proven to be an abject failure.

You have succeeded in proving absolutely nothing. Congrats! Although I agree with everything he said at the time - there was not a single pick at 5 that was going to play much for us last season (at least before the implosion). This also does not mean that Abe was not the impetus for making some sort of deal to add veterans for a "final contending run". Jennings is overrated yet solid (got a lot of mileage out of one 50 pt game), ditto for Curry, and Rubio is STILL not even in the NBA. He was the consensus 5th pick for anybody with a memory or without an agenda. Ask anyone from Minnesota what they think about that pick, I just moved from Minneapolis and I can tell you they were/are still po'ed. So, basically, it's a petty argument about something that means little now and did not "set back" the franchise whatsoever. The GA contract is what has hampered the franchise the last few years. That's been the biggest recent mistake and that has been widely reported to have been supported by Abe Pollin. Per usual, never let facts or reality spoil a bogus argument.

As far as this draft, I love the pure speculation on players that have yet to play a single NBA game. The best talent evaluators are more often wrong than right past the lottery or even in the lottery, so declarations now by sofa bloggers is both funny and ridiculous. I don't know how it will turn out, but I like the strategy to get tougher, muscular, and better defensively.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

how absolutely awful it must be for you grunfeld-haters to be in the position of rooting for the team to fail so that he can be fired. did you celebrate like it was new year's eve and order a drink for everybody in the bar when blatche broke his foot? are you hoping that john wall ruptures his achilles tendon in the summer league? want flip to abruptly quit on the last day of training camp in october? you guys are pitiful.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl

It's true I was in a bar when I found out about Blatche's foot. I did not buy drinks for the house.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

You have to admire Danny Ainge, taking the big gamble and trading all those young players and draft choices to Seattle and Minnesota for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, two talented but aging stars who carried the baggage of playoff frustration. And trading down from the number 6 spot in the draft to number 21 to take an unknown PG who demonstrably couldn't shoot -- Rajon Rondo.

Now that's guts. If you listen, you can probably hear the Celts fans howling all the way from 2005. Fortunately for Ainge, it all worked out.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 8:20 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, except Ainge actually traded for GARNETT/ALLEN when he gave up his high pick/young player, not MILLER/FOYE!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, except Ainge actually traded for GARNETT/ALLEN when he gave up his high pick/young player, not MILLER/FOYE!

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 9:18 AM

But you have to admit Boston had Al Jefferson, a young stud PF/C, as trade bait. In comparison, the Wizards had Songaila, Etan and Pecherov. Each handpicked by Abe.

Surely you weren't expecting two future HOFers for that crew.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

imo, it's absurd for people who constantly rip the players on the team to consistently defend most everything EG has done by either blaming Abe or claiming nobody can draft well anyway.

and if there's anybody hoping the team loses, it's certainly the very people who clearly cannot stand to see some of the players on the team perform well.

If Hinrich is a dud, EG is out imo. Booker and Seraphin are safe picks. The former just needing to exhibit energy and defense to be considered successful, the latter having several years ahead of him before judgment day.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"the Wizards had Songaila, Etan and Pecherov. Each handpicked by Abe."

Where does this line of thinking come from?? Abe was scouting players overseas too? Odd the lengths people go to in attempts to defend a guy who is basically a middle of the pack GM at best.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Surely you weren't expecting two future HOFers for that crew.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

He got Allen in his prime for the 5th pick.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

If Hinrich is a dud, EG is out imo. Booker and Seraphin are safe picks. The former just needing to exhibit energy and defense to be considered successful, the latter having several years ahead of him before judgment day.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

There's no conditional to be used for Hinrich. If you follow BB, you already know what type of player he is, thus you should already know that EG bombed again! He is a decent 6'3 Combo guard that's better suited at coming off the bench to support the second unit. And you DO NOT pay $ 9 millions/year the next 2 years for that unless he is the missing piece to your championship. Hasn't Ernie learned how hard it is to unload bad contracts?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Here's a question, Would the addition of a Dirk Nowitski be a good aquisition? I wouldnt mind seeing him here. We do have some money to spend. Thoughts......

Posted by: FedorEm | June 28, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Grunfeld gets the same retread slack that coaches get. Even if he got canned here, he'd have another job in less than 2 years. He's a .500 GM with old school name recognition, so he gets more leash than most.

And regardless of his Title, Abe is the one who made the calls. Abe wanted that ridiculous contract for Zero, etc. He, much like the Danny, told his Personnel people what to do and they did it. GM's/VP of Player Personnel, etc. do not have FINAL say. They are an employee, same as the rest.

Posted by: kahlua87 | June 28, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"Was Grunfeld not confident we would have a shot at getting a max player with the 20million or so we had before taking Hinrich?"

I suspect that's about it. Why would a max FA sign here, knowing it's a rebuilding situation? You might get Carlos Boozer if there were no better offers, but Miami is reportedly interested and is Carlos what the Wiz need?

It's a judgment call. You can go the way Okla City did, with drafted players, and hope to get lucky as they did with Durant and Westbrook. You can go the veteran FA route. But it's hard to do both successfully.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

imo, it's absurd for people who constantly rip the players on the team to consistently defend most everything EG has done by either blaming Abe or claiming nobody can draft well anyway
Posted by: divi3

Secondly, with all things considered I'm not sure this means Ernie should get a pass for that. His name is on those decisions as acting GM. Its never a good idea to trade away draft picks unless you are getting back a sure fire beast! It's crazy how people judge and critique players very strictly. Especially young players. Cutting them no slack in most instances but all kinds of excuses and benefit of the doubt are given to EG in these situations.

Posted by: millineumman
============
Thank you, preach on brotha!

Posted by: millineumman | June 28, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"I suspect that's about it. Why would a max FA sign here, knowing it's a rebuilding situation?"

But doesnt that beg the question, why pay $17mill for a middling combo guard about to turn 30? Rather than trying to acquire a player who can grow with the team?

IMHO, the answer to that is EG feels CaptKirk is a very high quality player who could end up being here for 5yrs not 2. And that's how he sold Ted on picking up his contract.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"[Pollin], much like the Danny [Snyder], told his Personnel people what to do and they did it. GM's/VP of Player Personnel, etc. do not have FINAL say. They are an employee, same as the rest.Posted by: kahlua87"

Grunfeld's more than an 'employee', but I think you're probably right about who made the truly big $$ decisions. Abe was old when these signings took place, but self-made men usually keep a tight rein on the checkbook. If Ernie had made the call on the Arenas and Jamison contracts, the Pollins probably would have fired him after Abe died. Instead, they asked him if there was still hope for a contender with that lineup. He said no.

I'm thinking this team will struggle a lot this coming season, and Blatche's injury makes that more likely. Grunfeld will get the lion's share of the blame for that, one way or another, whether he deserves it or not. It's the way of the world, and he knows it.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

"But doesnt that beg the question, why pay $17mill for a middling combo guard about to turn 30? Rather than trying to acquire a player who can grow with the team?"Posted by: divi3"

Hmmm? The question was whether EG thought a max FA would sign with the Wiz. My guess: he didn't (at least not one he was interested in) . So he took that option off the table. No begging questions involved.

As to your question -- why he took on Hinrich and his contract -- I can only speculate that he thought that was ultimately the better deal. He gets a veteran guard who plays defense and shoots from outside, and a mid first round draft choice. He has to absorb Kirk's contract, which isn't great, but it's only for two seasons, and in his heart, he thinks the Wiz will struggle at least that long anyway.

The hidden factor is whether he thinks Arenas will become tradeable at some point. At the moment, it looks like no. But things change.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

"IMHO, the answer to that is EG feels CaptKirk is a very high quality player who could end up being here for 5yrs not 2. And that's how he sold Ted on picking up his contract.Posted by: divi3"

Ernie has said he likes Kirk and has for a long while. Of course GMs say a lot of things about players they draft or acquire, and some of it might even be true. As for him selling Ted, that would be speculation, right?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

EG is not more than an employee. He has no ownership interest in this club, not a minority owner, nothing. He gives his input and calls whatever shots he is ALLOWED to call. Abe was not a hands off owner and he did not rubber stamp EG's decisions like he may have Susan O'Malley's.

Posted by: kahlua87 | June 28, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

It's crazy how people judge and critique players very strictly. Especially young players. Cutting them no slack in most instances but all kinds of excuses and benefit of the doubt are given to EG in these situations.

Posted by: millineumman

Because really, it's Ernie who sat there face-to-face with Nick Young and thought to himself "Hmmm, this completely immature goofball who cant stop grinning has the makings of a legit nba player."

And to Ernie's credit, he gives guys like AB and NY pretty long leashes surely because he knew what he was getting into with both of them. Funny, considering it's many of EGs biggest supporters who moan all season about cutting ties with these players by any means possible.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

"Yeah, except Ainge actually traded for GARNETT/ALLEN when he gave up his high pick/young player, not MILLER/FOYE!
Posted by: Utilityman1"

What? See below. Rondo was acquired a year before Garnett or Allen.

From Wikipedia: "Rondo was drafted 21st overall by the Phoenix Suns in the 2006 NBA Draft. Phoenix then traded him to the Boston Celtics along with Brian Grant for the Cleveland Cavaliers' first-round draft pick in the 2007 NBA Draft and cash considerations.[16] He was the first point guard to be chosen in the draft.[17] In another draft-day deal, the Celtics acquired Sebastian Telfair from the Portland Trail Blazers."

His first year -- a very unsuccessful season for Boston -- Rondo alternated with Telfair and Delonte West.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

I admit to knowing nothing about evaluating NBA talent, but it just seems that on a team with only 2 players over 6'8" under contract, I would want to draft at least one finished product out of the college ranks big enough to push and shove with Lee, Bogut, Howard and the rest...

Just one big that not described as...raw.

Posted by: bozomoeman

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying -- though I don't usually fault GMs for 'missing' on second rounders, because there's often other considerations than just talent.

My question though on this last point is who do you feel like they should have drafted instead of Seraphin / Booker who fits the description you just mentioned?

Posted by: ts35 | June 27, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse
__________________________

@ts35,

Yeah, I really didn't intend to put any emphasis on the second round selections.
Just wanted to point to the volume of picks over the course of 13 or so years versus the number of actual contributors to an NBA team.

Regarding who I thought fit the description
of a player I would like to have seen: (Keep in mind my opinion here is formed on what I saw in the NCAA tournament and in the Chicago combine.) Pittman, Alabi, Caracter or Orton. I hold out hope that either Samhan, Parakhouski will be signed for training camp.

I don't know if any of these guys will make a team, but the Wizards front court is either too short or too thin or unskilled.

Seraphin maybe the answer, but I get a bit antsy when the term "physical player" is used to describe a player from the European leagues.

I still remember the description of Pecherov as an excellent rebounder, physical post player with three point shooting range.

Posted by: bozomoeman | June 28, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

What was Grunfeld thinkng about singing Hirich for two years @ 17M? Chicago would have been happy to get rid of him & pay a portion of his salaryl That's how badly they wanted him out. I'm sure the "D" league had more to offer than "limited Hinrich." I would keep Mike Miller any day of the week since he rebounds, scores and makes plays. All Hinrich is good for is knocking around players with his dirty defense. Saunders will discover how limited his is next season. What a slap in the face to place him in the same backcourt with Arenas and wall. Keep Miller.

Posted by: esmith4 | June 28, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

OK here's the fundamental lie, last year there was no way in the world our team was anywhere near championship caliber.

if this year's championship showed you anything, the core of the Wizards was never going to win anything beyond a regular season game. Even if healthy, the so-called big 3 had 2 glaring defensive liabilities in Arenas and Jamison. The team had ZERO inside presence. the young uys on the team played like kids at recess and offered nothing you could rely on.

As for the trade of the #5 pick, I did not like the trade then and i don't like it now especially since the two pieces are pretty much out the door. I thought the Wiz should have drafted players to push it's existing squad. The most frustrating thing was they passed on Dejaun Blair or Sam Young in the second round too. yes, after the top 3 picks the draft was weak, but it wasn't like the Wiz did not need help in an array of areas.

Posted by: oknow1 | June 28, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

What was Grunfeld thinkng about singing Hirich for two years @ 17M? Chicago would have been happy to get rid of him & pay a portion of his salaryl

Posted by: esmith4

They did pay a portion of his salary. They gave the Wizards three million dollars when the trade was made.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I am not sure what teams so many of the members the Anti-EG crowd have worked for as GMs. But lets stop name calling and think this one through.
What high quality FA wants to come here right now? None, the team was awful last year and this year will be a rebuild.
It took Durant et al 3 years to make it to the playoffs maybe Wall et al get there in 2. By no means do I think Grunfield is a genius but rarely does a GM seem like a genius. For every "Brilliant" move a GM makes he has made 12 "moronic" ones. And I am not sold on Flip for a "tougher" team. B Wallace specifically called him out about his lack of D. But Coaches are easier to replace than players. Arenas doesnt come off the books until 2014. Hinrich coems off in 2 years. If the goal is to make the team younger and more physical than good. The overall team speed of the celtics is limited but for Rondo. Translation, A Scoring but Real PG can control a game. Flip succeeds when his PG can control the game. Timberwolves - Cassel Pistons - Billups In fact if we stop and look deeper at his history the very idea he could have succeeded with the 2009 Wizards lineup was moronic. The last time he had a scoring PG was Marbury. When the Wolves got him they stopped making the playoffs. I am all for looking 2 years down the road. EG gets a C+/B- for cutting the hell out of the Salary cap midseason.I will reserve judgement on EG's body of work for 2011 until at least teh trading deadline passes. With any luck some team like ATL PHX or maybe CLE will take a gamble on Arenas putting them over the top. Further freeing the Wiz.

Posted by: Hank4 | June 28, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I would keep Mike Miller any day of the week since he rebounds, scores and makes plays. All Hinrich is good for is knocking around players with his dirty defense. Saunders will discover how limited his is next season. What a slap in the face to place him in the same backcourt with Arenas and wall. Keep Miller.

Posted by: esmith4

You can't keep a guy who is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't want to be kept. Say buh-bye to Miller.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

"the Wizards had Songaila, Etan and Pecherov. Each handpicked by Abe."

Where does this line of thinking come from?? Abe was scouting players overseas too? Odd the lengths people go to in attempts to defend a guy who is basically a middle of the pack GM at best.

Posted by: divi3

I was being sarcastic and having a little fun at melodious_thunk's expense. :-)

I do think Abe was behind trading both picks last year and the second rounder the year before, but I believe Grunfeld chose each and every player on the roster. The Miller/Foye trade is his baby.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Well, if you look @ it this way, the trade is not so bad. Per Rick Bucher from ESPN, the Wizards still plan on trading Gilbert (because there are a few teams with serious interest in him). EG actually plan on pairing the two (i.e. Captain Kirk and Wall)together in the back court. It may be a small back court, but this can be a quality athletic/defensive team.

Posted by: merajc86 | June 28, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Everybody keeps talking about how bad the decision to give up the 5th pick in last years draft was. But what were we really going to do with it. We were not going to draft a PG. So there were no real options left. So the Miller-Foye trade made since at the time. Of course a year later it's all hind sight.

Posted by: TCM80 | June 28, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Everybody keeps talking about how bad the decision to give up the 5th pick in last years draft was. But what were we really going to do with it. We were not going to draft a PG. So there were no real options left. So the Miller-Foye trade made since at the time. Of course a year later it's all hind sight.

Posted by: TCM80

Skipped your coffee this morning, huh? You don't have to draft a PG with the 5th pick. Look and Sacramento this year. They got wild and crazy with the 5th pick and drafted a (*cover your children's eyes*) center!

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Regarding who I thought fit the description of a player I would like to have seen: (Keep in mind my opinion here is formed on what I saw in the NCAA tournament and in the Chicago combine.) Pittman, Alabi, Caracter or Orton. I hold out hope that either Samhan, Parakhouski will be signed for training camp.

I don't know if any of these guys will make a team, but the Wizards front court is either too short or too thin or unskilled.

Seraphin maybe the answer, but I get a bit antsy when the term "physical player" is used to describe a player from the European leagues.

I still remember the description of Pecherov as an excellent rebounder, physical post player with three point shooting range.

Posted by: bozomoeman

I hear ya, especially on the European player front. And I think you can make a good case for any of those players (assuming Alabi's heart issue isn't a factor). But I think they all also come with issues. Definitely a case of pick your poison. Hopefully it works out for the Wiz!

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Why is everybody acting like the Hinrich contact is a problem? It's almost like you just NEED something to complain about.

Someone please explain how that is a contract. ANYONE. Please.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 28, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

MICHAEL LEE:

One individual you did not talk about was JAMES SINGLETON. Is BOOKER to be his replacement? JS made 1.12 mill last year.

Posted by: glawrence007 | June 28, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

His first year -- a very unsuccessful season for Boston -- Rondo alternated with Telfair and Delonte West.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

I didn't bring up Rondo at all so I am not sure what it does have to do with EG taking on junk for a 5th pick and why he absorbed 2-year $17 million on an average combo guards only months after he unloaded 2 out of the 3 unsuccessful contracts he offered to the lousy 3.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

You guys get so off point on tangents that you fail to make any point really. Who cares that we traded last year's 5th pick (a player that has yet to play a single NBA game)? It neither helped nor hurt the franchise long term. And, the point of the Kirk Hinrich trade was not KH, it was to get another fairly high pick in a deep draft. Who cares if his contract last for two years? That's peanuts in today's NBA. By the time they might need more money, his contract will be long gone as will the contract of GA hopefully. Anyone here coached or put together a team that made the finals??? Didn't think so. Our ownership, front office, and coaching is squared away at the moment.

Now, I do like the Pritchard in Portland who just got canned. There is a guy with a decent track record. Of course, he was at fault for drafting players that can't seem to stay healthy.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Odd the lengths people go to in attempts to defend a guy who is basically a middle of the pack GM at best.

Agree re: EG being a "middle-of-the-pack" NBA GM. By my reckoning his teams have gone 815-711 with similarly middling playoff success. Not a great GM by any stretch, but not among the dregs as some who post here would have you believe. I'm thinking that the team's moves toward the end of Pollin's life were influenced strongly by the owner. He probably set the "win now" agenda and almost certainly approved the bloated contracts given to AJ and Gilbert. EG's moves were in furtherance of that agenda.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | June 28, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Everybody keeps talking about how bad the decision to give up the 5th pick in last years draft was. But what were we really going to do with it. We were not going to draft a PG. So there were no real options left. So the Miller-Foye trade made since at the time. Of course a year later it's all hind sight.

Posted by: TCM80

Skipped your coffee this morning, huh? You don't have to draft a PG with the 5th pick. Look and Sacramento this year. They got wild and crazy with the 5th pick and drafted a (*cover your children's eyes*) center!

Posted by: harrybalz

Survey Says?! EHHHH! When the people who complain about missing out on the #5 last year make their case. do they complain about missing out on Jordan Hill or even DeMar DeRozan? No, it's about Jennings, Curry and sometimes Rubio. So even if EG had used last year's #5 on a center or PF or anything other than Jennings or Curry (or Rubio if he shows up and plays well), the same folks would still be complaining, imo.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

There you go, I figured the hindsight talk was going to start sooner or later. How many months before Grunfailed begs other team to take on Hinrich's contract for junk and many on here talk about hindsight again?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

"Everybody keeps talking about how bad the decision to give up the 5th pick in last years draft was. But what were we really going to do with it. We were not going to draft a PG. So there were no real options left. So the Miller-Foye trade made since at the time. Of course a year later it's all hind sight."

TC, don't try to reason with unreasonable people. Of course, we could have drafted Jennings at 5, but, then again, not a single team in the entire draft would have done so that high and we had a guy coming back named GA. Or, we could have drafted another player nobody liked that high in Curry. Now that he's overrated bc he plays for the truly woeful Warriors and got numbers his rookie season the bandwagon begins - he is still not top 5 worthy. Good lord, we are talking rotation guys, and 4th/5th best players at best on true contenders at the 5th pick!!! No thanks! I would rather rent two for one and ditch them if it doesn't work out. It's not even hindsight, it almost makes more sense now!

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

"IMHO, the answer to that is EG feels CaptKirk is a very high quality player who could end up being here for 5yrs not 2. And that's how he sold Ted on picking up his contract.Posted by: divi3"

Am I missing something here? It really seems like common sense to me.

Leonsis wants to build through the draft.

Taking on Hinrich's deal allowed Grunfeld to acquire a 1st round pick at the cost of no assets.

Acquiring Hinrich also meant the team would have a veteran backcourt leader with the right attitude.

It also provides depth with a proven veteran.

And in a year, it provides another tradeable asset in the form of an expiring contract.

Unless there are people that actually thought Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, or Amar'e Stoudemire were coming here, or actually thought that paying max money for David Lee, Carlos Boozer, or Joe Johnson would have been a wise, basketball-savvy move, there is absolutely nothing to dislike about this trade.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"I'll have to give Ernie a call; has he lost his mind?" said Dave Checketts, the former Garden and Knicks president.


Yes, Mr. Checketts, he lost his mind about 2 years ago and so have the many bind followers on here.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

There's nothing wrong with Hinrich's contract.

I think a lot of people drank the "Wall Effect" kool-aid after the Wizards won the lottery in May and were convinced big-name free agents would want to play here this year and that Ted was just bluffing when he said the Wizards would not be a major player in free agency this season. They're finally realizing he was serious about his stated approach to rebuilding the team.

Posted by: and_1 | June 28, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"How many months before Grunfailed begs other team to take on Hinrich's contract for junk and many on here talk about hindsight again?

Posted by: Utilityman1"

Um, never, it's a 2 year deal. It becomes a valuable asset in 12 months, regardless of whether or not Hinrich is an all-star player or flat-out bust.

Seriously, what is the problem with this contract? Honestly, please explain how a two-year deal at $9 million per year is setting this franchise back in any way, shape, or form. Specifics, please.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

A 5th pick does sound valuable RIGHT NOW but lets go back a year. Washington starters
PG: Gilbert Arenas, Javaris Crittendon, Mike James
SG: Deshawn Stevenson, Nick Young
SF: Caron Butler
PF: Antawn Jamison, Andray Blatche
C: Brendon Haywood, Javale McGee

The most glaring need is shooting guard and maybe center on a team that thrived on offense. In the draft there was Blake Griffin and 20 PG. Not a single person predicted Gilbert would pull out guns to create a need for a point guard. The wizards had 3 PG and several bad contracts like Etan thomas. A more valid argument would be trading DOWN the draft that included ETAN, Pech, and Javaris for an 8th pick for Jennings or curry. That way JC wouldn't be gambling on the plane with Gil. But nobody has a crystal ball.

Posted by: jefferu | June 28, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Jennings is overrated yet solid (got a lot of mileage out of one 50 pt game), ditto for Curry

-rphilli


How many times did MM and RF combine for 50 pts let alone go for 50 by themselves?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 28, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

ARENAS - 17,730,694
BLATCHE - 03,260,331
THORNTON - 02,814,196
YOUNG - 02,630,503
McGEE - 01.601,040
ROSS - 01,146,337
WALL - 04,300,000
SERAPHIN -01,200,000
BOOKER - 01,000,000
HINRICH - 09,000,000
HAMADY - 700,000

So let's see what we got to this point

#5 - McGEE, HAMADY
#4 - BLATCHE, SERAPHIN, BOOKER
#3 - THORNTON
#2 - YOUNG HINRICH, ROSS
COMBO 2/1 - ARENAS
#1 - WALL

Anybody else see any weaknesses with this line-up?

Suspects from last year

OBERTO
SINGLETON

Needs in my opinion

#5 with experience
#4 with experience
#3 (2) one with experience
#2 - O.K.
#1 back-up to WALL other than ARENAS

I see an experiment with BOOKER in the 3/4 combo slot.

Posted by: glawrence007 | June 28, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, what is the problem with this contract? Honestly, please explain how a two-year deal at $9 million per year is setting this franchise back in any way, shape, or form. Specifics, please.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I believe the real question would be: had Hinrich been a free agent, would you pay him $ 9 million per to join your team? If you answer yes, then we totally disagree on his value.
Yes, we may not attract the top free agents like LJ, Stoudemire, Bosh... but there are plenty of decent pieces (2 or 3) for $ 9 millions per.
Furthermore,just because you have money doesn't mean you have to spend it now. We may not have a chance to sign stars this year but who knows what's going to happen next year?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I would not let Livingston or Singleton go. Give up on Magee and trade Blatche while he has value and trade gilbert

Posted by: stephenwilson2003@yahoo.com | June 28, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

If the real point of aquiring Hinrich was to draft Seraphin, then you just spent $17mill to draft a guy who is much a question mark as anybody drafted after him. EG must think very highly of him and know he's a keeper.

But oh wait, if he's a bust 3yrs from now- how could EG have known since nobody can really tell about picks after 10th or so?

Come on, cant have your cake and eat it too.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I would not let Livingston or Singleton go. Give up on Magee and trade Blatche while he has value and trade gilbert

Posted by: stephenwilson2003@yahoo.com | June 28, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Do you care to come up with a reasonable trade scenario for trading Gil? By reasonable,I mean a trade that will benefit both teams. And please no Gil for Lebron type of scenario. For $ 80 millions the next years, he is virtually untradeable unless you take long term junk in return, and even then, I don't see any team having $ 80 millions in marginal contracts they can just swing this way.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld hasn't shown he knows what he's doing. I would be more excited about his dismissal than this draft. I am taking the hope for the best, but expect little approach until Grunfeld is gone.

Posted by: Boogadiggy | June 28, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"I believe the real question would be: had Hinrich been a free agent, would you pay him $ 9 million per to join your team?"

re: The value of Hinrich in relation to his contract -- we agree. He is overpaid (but not immensely overpaid).

But you're focusing on the lesser portion of the deal. The main acquired asset was not Hinrich. It was the mid-first round pick.

Say Hinrich is a complete bust. Say he blows out both knees and never plays a minute for the Wizards.

Now say Seraphin becomes the next Kendrick Perkins for the Wizards. A young, cheap, early-20s defensive center capable of guarding the best bigs in the league (notably Howard).

What would you say then? IMO, it'd still be worth it. And that's assuming we get no value out of Hinrich whatsoever, which is not likely in the least. The move, more or less, wasn't about Hinrich; it was about "purchasing" a first-round draft pick, while adding a valuable veteran in the process.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

And as for that 5th, it didnt have to be Ricky Fraudio or anybody else in particular. Could have traded on the absurd hype over Rubio and picked up future picks or whatever. Neither Miller nor Foye were very good (imo, both stunk for big stretches) so even if trading the pick was Abe's directive.....EG chose crappy players to trade for.

Blah, blah, blah poor Mike Miller was asked to do more than expected....ok, fine.

But Foye was specifically mentioned as quite possibly being better than any of the available guards last year. Still young and developing, maybe he'd end up better than Curry, Jennings, etc. Anybody still believe that?

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

per espn:

UPDATE: The Magic continue to be a rumored destination for Arenas.

Writes Ken Berger of CBS Sports on Monday: "A person with knowledge of the Magic's plans said a trade for Gilbert Arenas, the one-time superstar whose reputation took a massive hit with his gun suspension last season, remains a 'definite possibility.' GM Otis Smith has a good relationship with Arenas, but a stumbling block could be the fact that Dwight Howard has questions about whether Arenas would fit in. If Howard gets the answers he?s looking for, there could be legs to the Arenas-to-Orlando scenario."

Posted by: merajc86 | June 28, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"If the real point of aquiring Hinrich was to draft Seraphin, then you just spent $17mill to draft a guy who is much a question mark as anybody drafted after him."

It's not either/or. The main portion of the trade was for the draft pick. Picking up Hinrich was a stipulation. It's not $17 million for Hinrich alone, and it's not $17 million for the rights to Seraphin alone. It's $17 million for both. I don't get why people insist on separating the two ad nauseum.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

But oh wait, if he's a bust 3yrs from now- how could EG have known since nobody can really tell about picks after 10th or so?

Come on, cant have your cake and eat it too.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

EG is going to milk Seraphin's supposed upside and potential for years to keep his job. I hope Ted don't fall for that.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

One individual you did not talk about was JAMES SINGLETON. Is BOOKER to be his replacement? JS made 1.12 mill last year.

Posted by: glawrence007 | June 28, 2010 11:24 AM

That's what made trading 2 picks to grab Booker....interesting. If they are serious about being tougher, grittier, and more defensive minded....hopefully they keep Singleton too

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"It's not either/or. The main portion of the trade was for the draft pick."

IMO, the main portion was getting Hinrich because 1)EG thinks he's a very good player and 2)allows for the instant trade of GA should a deal present itself

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I don't think people on this site know how major a rebuilding job the Wizards have on their hands. Foye, Miller, and Singleton all will be gone from last year's roster as well as Livingston. Don't see how the returning 6 players plus Wall, Hinrich, and 3 rookies equates to an improvement. Wall gives the team hope for the future but this team will be lucky to win 25 games this season. Look at the lottery next year to get another building block and hopefully a FA might be interested in signing here. No FA who has any options would consider signing here to be part of what is essentially an expansion team.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 28, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Another part of this story is the tone the team is using in regards to Arenas being happy or cool with the drafting of Wall. Flip seems to really be intent on proving the coaches and front office run the team not Gilbert.

Too many of you "mis-remember" to quote the great Roger Clemons on how Hinrich was a weak link in Chicago. I remember Arenas lighting him up for 30 or more a few times. I also remember Hinrich taking and missing many ill advised jump shots. Hinrich is a NBA caliber player, but he's not a $9 Million a year type player.

Posted by: oknow1 | June 28, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

glawrence007,

Hinrich is a PG. Prior to last year, he played his career at Chicago as a PG, and got his contract because Chicago envision him to be their PG (and thus expendable when they got Rose). He only moves to SG because Chicago drafted #1 Derrick Rose who played in front of him (as a PG). So Wiz do not need a backup PG, when Wall is not playing PG, just move Hinrich over. (In fact, there will be time that Hinrich is too small to guard bigger SGs)

OTOH, Wiz do need starting caliber SF, and experienced backup C.

Posted by: sagaliba | June 28, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards are destined to continue as a bottom dweller unless they make an organizational commitment to playing great team D in the tradition of a San Antonio Spurs team. Hinrich is mentally tough, Wall is gifted and Arenas is talented. Trade rumors be damned - a team could win with these 3 guards playing hard-nosed basketball.

Posted by: HornetCoach | June 28, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"per espn:

UPDATE: The Magic continue to be a rumored destination for Arenas."

Arenas for Vince Carter (who only has one year left) can be an intriguing option. It solves the over-crowding at the small guards, and temporarily fills the SF position, while leaves options open for the future.

Posted by: sagaliba | June 28, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

A person with knowledge of the Magic’s plans said a trade for Gilbert Arenas, the one-time superstar whose reputation took a massive hit with his gun suspension last season, remains a “definite possibility.” Smith has a good relationship with Arenas, but a stumbling block could be the fact that Howard has questions about whether Arenas would fit in. If Howard gets the answers he’s looking for, there could be legs to the Arenas-to-Orlando scenario.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/22848009?source=rss_blogs_NBA

If Leonsis and Grunfeld can keep Arenas muzzled this summer, maybe he's headed to DisneyWorld.

Posted by: tgif11 | June 28, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Give up on Magee and trade Blatche while he has value and trade gilbert

Blatche's short-term trade value is zero and his long-term value took a sizable hit when he broke his foot. No one is going to trade for him until he demonstrates that he is fully recovered, and even after then, teams are going to be justifiably wary about acquiring a big with a stress-fracture history. Leg or foot stress-fractures have ended or sharply curtailed the careers of bigs like Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, Yao Ming and others. Hopefully, Blatche won't be similarly affected, but it is a concern.

As for Gilbert, I think that he will be traded by the deadline next season (which is one reason that, imo, the Hinrich deal made sense).

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | June 28, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

re: The value of Hinrich in relation to his contract -- we agree. He is overpaid (but not immensely overpaid).

But you're focusing on the lesser portion of the deal. The main acquired asset was not Hinrich. It was the mid-first round pick.

Say Hinrich is a complete bust. Say he blows out both knees and never plays a minute for the Wizards.

Now say Seraphin becomes the next Kendrick Perkins for the Wizards. A young, cheap, early-20s defensive center capable of guarding the best bigs in the league (notably Howard).

What would you say then? IMO, it'd still be worth it. And that's assuming we get no value out of Hinrich whatsoever, which is not likely in the least. The move, more or less, wasn't about Hinrich; it was about "purchasing" a first-round draft pick, while adding a valuable veteran in the process.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I guess my main concern is not necessarily the amount of Hinrich's contract but its length. While we would all reasonably agree that the team record will be horrendous next year, why collateralize next year as well when noone has any idea what's going to happen?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

"I see kalorama is posting under one of his many pseudonyms. sheesh, does the nigg@ ever take a day off the blog or what?"
Posted by: Risa_L

kalorama? nigg@?

Wh-, Wh-, What??!

Posted by: tgif11 | June 28, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

OTOH, Wiz do need starting caliber SF, and experienced backup C.


Posted by: sagaliba | June 28, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

A backup center? To back who? McGee?? The kid has at least 2 years before he learns how to play BB and another 2 to become serviceable.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

While we would all reasonably agree that the team record will be horrendous next year, why collateralize next year as well when noone has any idea what's going to happen?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 12:44 PM

Is 2yrs really that long? Though everyone will tell you that after this season, suddenly Hinrich becomes a golden asset as an expiring contract.

Just like Mike James did.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

It's obvious that the Wizards just like the Caps are going to take several years to rebound off of the lows set in 2009.

The roster is bereft of impact players other than the 19 year old Wall.

But what the team has done is try and eliminate the players whose profile is that they are 'soft', 'don't defend' or 'don't want to be coached'.

That's a move in the right direction for this club.

As indicated by other posters here, the Wizards SHOULD be angling for the lottery in 2011 to pick up another building block, this time for the front oourt.

By then perhaps a healthy and productive Arenas can be traded.

Perhaps by then Blatche can be back 100% and he can be packaged in a deal as well.

That's addition by subtraction, but it's going to take some time.

And after that second lottery pick and clearing some additional cap room the Wizards will then be able to go into free agency in 2012 and pick up an impact player that can help the team advance past the first round of the playoffs.

But make no mistake. This is a 2 year process to BECOME RESPECTABLE. It's 3 years if you are looking for the postseason and a chance to be mentioned with the better teams in the East.

And 3 year is just about right, based on Wall's current contract.

The team will need to show him that it is prepared to put a winner out on the court around him to retain him beyond his rookie contract.

Leonsis knows what he is doing. In fact from what he has indicated he grew up a Knicks fan in the 1970's and says he is much more comfortable and familiar with the layout in the NBA than he was with the NHL when he bought the Capitals.

Grunfeld is going to get a reprieve.

But he is going to have to support Saunders and Wall from here on out now that the team has decided to commit to them.

No more backdoor support for Arenas or Blatche.

No more making excuses for guys that don't want to play the right way.

Unlike Pollin who was very ill and 84 years of age, Leonsis is a lot more active and aggressive in overseeing who is running his team and picking up on the vibes.

He won't interfere with draft picks or free agent moves and act as his own GM, but he will get rid of Saunders or Grunfeld if he feels they are holding the team back.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | June 28, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse


Is 2yrs really that long? Though everyone will tell you that after this season, suddenly Hinrich becomes a golden asset as an expiring contract.

Just like Mike James did.

Posted by: divi3

Mike James was a broken-down headcase, prone to wearing out his welcome everywhere he went after he got paid. Hinrich is a flat-out better player in the prime of his career who causes no headaches for his coach. He is a golden asset indeed.
Nice try.

Posted by: and_1 | June 28, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Do you care to come up with a reasonable trade scenario for trading Gil?

To the Knicks for Eddy Curry, especially if they strike out in free agency. Possibly to Orlando for VC sometime next season before the trade deadline, provided that Gil comes back and proves that he still has it. I believe Bucher and Ford from ESPN, who have said that there are teams who would be interested in acquiring Arenas. Talent-for-talent, both trades are losers for the Wizards, but they would get Arenas away from Wall and would get the team out from under the remaining 4 (5?) years of Arenas' deal.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | June 28, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

OTOH, Wiz do need starting caliber SF, and experienced backup C.


Posted by: sagaliba | June 28, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

real talk, we have NO 3 man we need bulk at the pivot.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 28, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

but they would get Arenas away from Wall and would get the team out from under the remaining 4 (5?) years of Arenas' deal.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | June 28, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

i can dig the contract biz, but what do yall think GA is gonna do to The Great Wall of Chinatown???????????laughable

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 28, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Mike James was a broken-down headcase, prone to wearing out his welcome everywhere he went after he got paid. Hinrich is a flat-out better player in the prime of his career who causes no headaches for his coach. He is a golden asset indeed.
Nice try.

Posted by: and_1 | June 28, 2010 12:59 PM

The supposed value of an expiring contract has nothing whatsoever to do with the player, and if you reread my post you'll see that what I was talking about. But nice try!

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

The calculation involving Hinrich is different than Mike James (e.g. my recollection is that the core part of the original Wizards deal is that they wanted to acquire Crittenton, Memphis was stocked in the back-court and wanted to close out the deal with the Wizards to get back the conditional first-rounder they'd ship to DC as part of the Navarro trade; in order to execute the trade the teams needed to bring in a 3rd team which resulted in the Daniels for James swap, which was basically a salary match).

In the case of Hinrich, my sense is that the Wizards specifically have been targeting him at least since Jan. 2010 (when I remember first hearing his name floated as part of a deal for Caron Butler). They aren't targeting him specifically with an eye towards unloading his contract next year. They're targeting him as a mentor for Wall as insurance at PG and SG and as a defensive minded veteran who will help to change the locker-room mindset.

The James trade was more about acquiring Crittenton than anything else; the expiring contract was unrelated to the purposes of the trade. If that was the objective the Wizards would have been fine retaining Daniels.

Posted by: JPRS | June 28, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

@Utility,

Ummm, how many months?? He is under contract for only 24. So what belabored stupid point are you trying to make?

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Do you care to come up with a reasonable trade scenario for trading Gil? By reasonable,I mean a trade that will benefit both teams. And please no Gil for Lebron type of scenario. For $ 80 millions the next years, he is virtually untradeable unless you take long term junk in return, and even then, I don't see any team having $ 80 millions in marginal contracts they can just swing this way.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 12:05 PM


Miami can take Gil, because they only have 1 man under contract and can take his contract. We may get draft pics for Gil, just a speculation and Gil has legal ties with the owner whom Gil consulted with on his legal matter. That is only one senario.

Posted by: stephenwilson2003@yahoo.com | June 28, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JPRS | June 28, 2010 1:12 PM

All I was trying to say is that "expiring contract" is always touted as a reason to not worry about the last year of any deal because supposedly the whole league is looking for them. Yet we couldnt move Mike James last year.

In regards to the Hinrich deal, it's only 2yrs so the length isnt a big deal in any circumstance

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Broussard reported this a.m. that the Knicks will offer Joe Johnson a max deal today, before meeting with Lebron. That doesnt make much sense?

And I wonder if they are going to detour the jet to Dallas (or hamburg) now that Dirk is officially on the market.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

i hope the wizards make the Effort to sign Rudy Gay

Posted by: diego99999 | June 28, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

But Foye was specifically mentioned as quite possibly being better than any of the available guards last year. Still young and developing, maybe he'd end up better than Curry, Jennings, etc. Anybody still believe that?

Posted by: divi3

In fairness to Foye, was there any reason to believe last year that an undersized two from a small school, switching positions (Curry) or a high school phenom who couldn't produce in Europe -- which I think would strike you particularly given your distaste for 'unproven' Euros -- (Jennings) would be of more value to the Wizards last year than a still-young player who had already averaged 16 / 3 / 4 in the actual NBA?

And does it really matter what anyone believes now?

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Even if i have to admit KH is over paid, his value is high.He is brought with 14 million for two years, he has an expiring contract by the end of 2010-11,He could be attractive to be signed for MLE or traded.He could be shiped on draft night next season,he is extremely easy to move.
If the trade of Arenas is true,he is a better fit at SG at least for now.Washington is not in the position to pick based on needs,we have to devcelop a character to attract FA.The best caracter is to push our prolonged weekness in defense and lack of strength.hopefulley we will over come those this season, get rid of Arenas contract and have a FA next season.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 28, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

And does it really matter what anyone believes now?

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 1:33 PM

Apparently not, as the general theme with analysis of EGs career seems to be "But who could have known???"

As to this draft, for those who think acquiring Seraphin was the main impetus to the trade, is there list of EGs successful 1st round picks anywhere? Honest question, he's had a long career, who are his 1st rounded successes? I think I like your idea of EG acquiring picks/vets while Pritchard handles the draft!


Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

The supposed value of an expiring contract has nothing whatsoever to do with the player...

Posted by: divi3

That would be false. Believe it or not, teams actually like acquiring players in the last year of a contract who can still play. The value is in the contract being over at the end of the season and getting a contribution out of the player in the meantime. Why take on the expiring contract of a lout who's lost a step or twenty when you can take on the expiring contract of a useful, productive player if the dollars are in the same ballpark? There's value in not having to pay a player to stay away from the team (as the Wizards essentially did last year with James). Your first try was better.

Posted by: and_1 | June 28, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Broussard reported this a.m. that the Knicks will offer Joe Johnson a max deal today, before meeting with Lebron. That doesnt make much sense?
Posted by: divi3

No. Because it's June 28th :) In terms of doing it on Thursday morning at 12:01am....I think the Knicks are starting to get a little worried that they are going to get shut out. Johnson is the only one I've specifically heard of that seems to have tabbed the Knicks as his first choice (at least that's the chatter).

They've sold the fanbase for two or three seasons on this offseason, and as much as any other team, probably more (Chicago has a good team, Miami for now has a good team, NJ has the #3 pick and a new billionaire owner), if the Knicks don't come away with something to show for it, they will have big problems.

And locking Johnson up shouldn't necessarily hurt their chances of still landing LeBron.

And I wonder if they are going to detour the jet to Dallas (or hamburg) now that Dirk is officially on the market.

I have a feeling if Dirk doesn't resign in Dallas on July 1, he's going to be one of the last big pieces to fall into place. Mainly because of his age relative to the contract he's trying to get.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

"Broussard reported this a.m. that the Knicks will offer Joe Johnson a max deal today, before meeting with Lebron. That doesnt make much sense?"

Sounds like they'd rather be active than passive.

Say Miami, Chicago, and New Jersey go after the big trio of James, Bosh, and Wade. Now say Wade snags Lebron and both sign with Miami, while Bosh heads to Chicago.

Now assume New York signs Johnson and Amar'e (reuniting with D'Antoni).

Where does that leave New Jersey?

My guess is that New York would rather be the team getting somebody than the team left with nothing at the end of the FA period. They figure going after Johnson before the Lebron sweepstakes gives them a better shot of landing him than going after Johnson following the Lebron sweepstakes.

It's the "safe" move, if there ever was one in free agency.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: and_1 | June 28, 2010 1:44 PM

agree to disagree, i think the value in expiring deals is to make trades work and shed salary at the end of the season in which you pick up the expiring. Nobody cares whether Hinrich (or James) can play or not because they're specifically looking for an expiring deal i.e. no intention of the player being on team the following season

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

divi3:

The following season is the following season. As you say, agree to disagree.

Posted by: and_1 | June 28, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

It's the "safe" move, if there ever was one in free agency.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 1:48 PM

Is it though? Doesnt Lebron want to behave has de facto GM and tell his suitors which other guy he wants signed? What if Lebron would rather play with Bosh?

The Knicks did a ton of work to create the CAP space, would be hilarious to see them now crapping their own pants and acting hastily

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

Greetings and let's get down to the meat of this, no more milk.

I like Ernie Grundfeld; and I think he is a genius at what he does and a brilliant person as well.

Now be reasonable and hear me out.

I wasn't always a Wizards/Bullets fan. When I was a boy I liked the Sixer's.

When I came into manhood (teenager) I realized that defence wins games and offense sells tickets and I became a Knick's fan "Big-Time". They held their opponents to under 80 points.

EG was the Knicks GM during that stretch. The man has a great history and deserves a chance, as does Gilbert.

Were are your hearts? Lighten up on people.

Let the owner do his thing; hey, he is throwin' down.

If we let Josh Howard go we will not be at our best. Their is nobody better at what he does (WIN). Keep in mind that when players are injured, they heal.

That down time allows them to chill-out while everyone else is getting "wear and tear" from the rigors of an 82+ game season, the injured players are not expending energy at all.

The healing process has a tendency to keep a player younger and in the NBA longer.

Furthermore brothers and sisters, we must develop some kind of nucleus and not a revolving door (High-Turnaround). Keep Josh, he is a monster scorer.

Peace, John

Posted by: upscalechef | June 28, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Ummm, how many months?? He is under contract for only 24. So what belabored stupid point are you trying to make?

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Definitely a different point from your notion of EG being a great GM after he led this team to the drag of the NBA both on and off the court the past 2 years.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"if the Bulls are able to lure LeBron James away, then Cleveland fans might want to admit that there really is something to a rivalry with the Wizards."

There's no rivalry if the Cavs lose Lebron! The Cavs go back to being a non-playoff team if thats the case. Wizards would get the last laugh on that "rivalry."

Posted by: ams1986 | June 28, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"The Knicks did a ton of work to create the CAP space, would be hilarious to see them now crapping their own pants and acting hastily

Posted by: divi3"

I guess it's all about the perspective with which one views the situation.

The ultimate hilarity would come with this, IMO: after clearing all the cap space and trading away all the draft picks they've given away, NYC bets the house on Lebron. Other teams end up plucking Johnson, Amare, Bosh, and Wade -- then Lebron decides to go elsewhere anyway.

And the only thing the Knicks are left with is cap space. No promising young draft picks, no future developmental type players, just cap space. And no free agents to use the cap space on.

I wouldn't even know where to begin if I was a Kicks fan and that happened.

Posted by: psps23 | June 28, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Josh Howard whom is far superior than Hinrich and who actually would fill a position of need would be more than content with a 2-year, $17 million deal right now. But taking on Hinrich's contract pretty much signifies Howard won't be signed.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | June 28, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse


I wouldn't even know where to begin if I was a Kicks fan and that happened.

Posted by: psps23

Pray that Ernie wants to trade Gilbert Arenas.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

'Josh Howard whom is far superior than Hinrich'

That was true until the moment Howard's knee shredded.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Josh Howard whom is far superior than Hinrich and who actually would fill a position of need would be more than content with a 2-year, $17 million deal right now. But taking on Hinrich's contract pretty much signifies Howard won't be signed.

Posted by: Utilityman1

I'm tired of Ernie signing guys fresh off major knee surgeries before their beds can even be wheeled out of the operating room. We got enough of that with Gil. I'll take a healthy Hinrich over Howard.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 28, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Berry Tramel of The Oklahoman: "General manager Sam Presti has a plan. He has not, does not, will not deviate from the plan. Presti's blueprint is to build a franchise on solid rock. High character, selfless, defensive-minded. That pretty well sums up Aldrich, the Kansas ox who some say will be a defensive difference-maker and others say will be a career role player but no one says ever will be a malcontent."
via TrueHoop

"High character, selfless, defensive-minded" appears to be the Wizards blueprint, too. I'll be surprised if anyone from the 2009-10 team other than McGee(rookie contract) is still on the team a year from now.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 28, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

And does it really matter what anyone believes now?

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 1:33 PM

Apparently not, as the general theme with analysis of EGs career seems to be "But who could have known???"

And the answer is "No one knows." Everyone just makes their best guess. Every team passed on Arenas at least once. How could they not have known? Or maybe they did know! Maybe they all knew he was going to get injured and then come back and then get into legal trouble! And that's why he lasted until the second round! 12 teams passed on Kobe. What were they smoking??? Dumars was generally considered one of the best GMs around, until he took Darko instead of Melo or Wade. What the hell?

As to this draft, for those who think acquiring Seraphin was the main impetus to the trade, is there list of EGs successful 1st round picks anywhere? Honest question, he's had a long career, who are his 1st rounded successes?

Weren't you the one toward the end of last year pepping McGee up as being 20lbs and a hook shot away from the All-Star game? (Kidding.)

Overall, I'm not a big fan of EG's drafts. But I have also said that relative to what's been available when he's been drafting, he's done ok. Safe to say he botched the Pech / Veer draft. And there was at least one Knicks draft he blew big time. You can definitely make the case that he does much better in the 2nd rd. The sad, yet funny truth is that when Ernie did the Booker swap and they picked up the 56th pick, I actually thought, well there's not many guys out there I'd rather have making the late pick, just not sure about the earlier ones. =)

I think I like your idea of EG acquiring picks/vets while Pritchard handles the draft!

Right? How about we pick up Foye's option and trade EG and Foye to Portland for Pritchard (who they'd have to resign) and their #1 next year. Win / Win!

Posted by: divi3

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Considering the Wizards situation at SF, odds are the Wizards will make an effort to retain Howard, Miller, or if they decide to spend some more money go after Rudy Gay.

I don't think signing Hinrich precludes any deal with Josh Howard. It likely does for Livingston and Foye, but Hinrich isn't going to play SF and the Wizards still have a need at that position. It'll come down to price, options, and long-term strategy.

Posted by: JPRS | June 28, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"Jennings is overrated yet solid (got a lot of mileage out of one 50 pt game), ditto for Curry.

-rphilli


How many times did MM and RF combine for 50 pts let alone go for 50 by themselves?"

Again, and this proves what or makes what point??? Debating skills and intellect a little slow or something?

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

arenas is going to be gone

Posted by: slim4 | June 28, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

it points to the fact that Jennings put up 50 in a game, Curry went for 42 in a game. We coulda had either one of those guys, instead of MM and RF, who coincidentally may not have even combined for 50 pts in a game. That is all.


ps. Jennings is getting a lot less mileage outta that 50 pts than Flip's been getting off those 50 wins (remember that nonsense)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 28, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

When is the last time Foye or Miller took 34 shots in a game either?

Jennings is electric but come on...he's a volume shooter that shot 40% on the season.
Didn't we have one of those last season...for half the season?

Curry would have been nice. They said the road to destruction is paved with good intentions and that trade was one of them. Let's move on.

Hinrich is a good pickup for 2 seasons. Possibly 1 season and an expiring contract.

Save the "Mike James was an expiring and they got nothing" because they could've traded him for the sake of just doing it...but they had specific parameters. Nobody met it. Fine.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 28, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Jennings got a ton of PR off that fitty point outburst. What did we get for the 5th pick?

$15mill spent and NADA to show for it.

Meanwhile Jennings 4yr deal is $15mill with team options after '10 and '11. So if the Bucs want to cut ties, their total investment in Jennings is 2yrs/$4mill.

Glad EG doesnt manage my money.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

jennings was also added to a lotto team that made a playoff run, while MM was added to a lotto team that came back and got the number 1 overall selection. There's some whole deal about corellation and causation but we're not going down that road.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 28, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

At SF, considering their rebuilding mentality, I doubt they resign Howard (unless he comes cheap), Miller (looking elsewhere already) or go after Gay (too pricey).

There's obviously the one report that they have interest in Childress, but they may be priced out of the market. My guess is that they would have Thornton man the spot, and maybe sign a cheaper vet backup or rotate D-Leaguers / undrafted FAs through. Unless they get serious with the Magic about a one-year VC rental.

They should still try to resign Singleton, and bring in at least one vet center-sized big body (depending on how many of their rookie bigs are on the squad).

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"The strongest criticism of EG's in 2009 is the fact that he passed up a chance to draft a quality role player like DeJuan Blair with the early 2nd rounder (a bunch of people on this blog made noise about that -- and they were right).Instead he made a financial move designed to reduce the team's luxury tax burden. In hindsight Blair probably would have been worth an extra $700K last season in additional luxury tax penalties. That was a miscalculation likely driven more by business decisions than fielding the best possible team possible. Dealing the #5 pick was a calculated risk that didn't pan out. Passing on Blair and dealing away the early #2 was a kind of calculated risk too, but it was one driven by being penny-wise and pound foolish -- it was almost exclusively a financial, bottom-line decision. Not a basketball one.
Posted by: JPRS"

Wow -- how can you arrive at that conclusion when the player in question has no anterior cruciate ligaments?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

ts35,

That's probably about right.

Posted by: JPRS | June 28, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Wow -- how can you arrive at that conclusion when the player in question has no anterior cruciate ligaments?

Posted by: Samson151

Because they didn't draft anyone else either.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

It's a slow PM so thought I'd just print a list of the teams who passed on drafting DeJuan Blair, in case anyone wants to write in demanding their GMs be fired...

LA Clippers
Memphis (three times)
Okla City (twice)
Sacramento (three times)
Minnesota (four times)
Golden State
NY Knicks
Toronto
Milwaukee
NJ
Charlotte
Indiana
Phoenix
Detroit (twice)
Chicago (twice)
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Utah
New Orleans
Portland (twice)
Dallas
Utah
LA Lakers
Cleveland
Washington

Teams that didn't pass on him because they had already traded away their choices:
Boston
Orlando
Miami
Houston

Not a great litmus test for GM competence, is it?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Article on expirings for anyone interested:

"At least when a player is known for his expiring contract, no one is trying to fool anyone into thinking he's valued as the contributor he once was. No one has to pretend that Portland's LaFrentz is that key pick-and-pop guy who averaged double figures through his first four seasons in the league; he is $12.7 million of pending cap relief, period."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/02/17/expiring.contracts/1.html#ixzz0sBA2jWv3

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"Because they didn't draft anyone else either.Posted by: ts35"

So you conclude the trade was entirely to save $$ -- and not because they didn't see anyone they thought would help last year's club?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Suppose a GM looks at his roster and decides there's nobody out there he's particularly interested in drafting in that year's second round -- some because he doesn't think they'll be good enough basketball players, some because of their medical history, some because of character -- whatever. Some other club approaches with an offer to buy a particular player from him if he drafts the player at that spot.

Does that mean he's making the trade only to save cash?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Why is everybody acting like the Hinrich contact is a problem? It's almost like you just NEED something to complain about. Someone please explain how that is a contract. ANYONE. Please.

Posted by: SDMDTSU

Because we were over $20M under the cap after last years salary dump at the all-star break. We had lots of options: whether a max salary guy + another FA, multiple mid-level guys, stay conservative and go after a max guy like Melo next year, etc.

But, to tie up $9M/yr on an average guard, completely blew that out of the water. Now we'll have no chance at a max guy this year or next (whether or not that was in the plans), and we are far more limited in our free agency options... all this for an average guard. Not to mention the fact that we helped an Eastern Conference team get more than $30M under the cap and made them a major player. IF Hindlick was going to put us over the top, then I'd buy this as a good move, but we all know he's not going to be anything more than what he's already shown in his career.

Posted by: FunStreet | June 28, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Or in the case of the '09 Wiz pick, simply to gain cash?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

All very true, Samson, but for a team needing size, toughness, and rebounding, while also looking to complement what was thought to be a playoff team, Blair was a low-risk, high-reward, low cost option. They did save a small amount of lux tax bucks (easy to say, it's not my money), but missed out on someone who at least could have been a rotational big man for them.

There were (are) legit concerns about his knees. But it's not a new condition. He'd been playing with it (or it had been evolving) essentially since high school.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Suppose a GM looks at his roster and decides there's nobody out there he's particularly interested in drafting in that year's second round -- some because he doesn't think they'll be good enough basketball players, some because of their medical history, some because of character -- whatever. Some other club approaches with an offer to buy a particular player from him if he drafts the player at that spot.

Does that mean he's making the trade only to save cash?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 3:57 PM

In this particular case, it means he was dead wrong about the player the other team was targeting with that pick. Doesnt really matter if everybody else (save one) passed on the guy. A winning organization has higher standards then "but everyone else was wrong too"

obviously a GMs career isnt judged on one 2nd round pick, but the balance sheet of all his drafts and moves. There comes a point when the excuse "Well, no one can tell who will pan out and who wont" just doesnt cut it anymore. Especially considering that very notion lends itself to NOT trading away picks and rather getting as many guys into camp as you can every year.

Posted by: divi3 | June 28, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

So you conclude the trade was entirely to save $$ -- and not because they didn't see anyone they thought would help last year's club?

Or in the case of the '09 Wiz pick, simply to gain cash?

Posted by: Samson151

Personally, yes, that's my conclusion. I believe EG was under some pressure not to go any farther into Lux Tax land than he had to. And like they did with their second rounder a few years before, recoup some cash to cover some of the lux tax payments they were already making.

Blair dropped into the second round because of his knee conditions, but he didn't exactly have an Alabi-esque fall. He dropped into the non-guaranteed money, which makes sense, and then he was scooped up.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

nativedc

Never liked that move. Look at the rookies from that draft that we could have had. Jennings, Curry, Evans, James Hardin, Blair. Any of those guys would have put us a year ahead of the process. But in EG's defense he has made some good moves and some bad ones. His good moves came early when he put together a playoff team.

Posted by: ged0386 | June 28, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Because we were over $20M under the cap after last years salary dump at the all-star break. We had lots of options: whether a max salary guy + another FA, multiple mid-level guys, stay conservative and go after a max guy like Melo next year, etc.

But, to tie up $9M/yr on an average guard, completely blew that out of the water. Now we'll have no chance at a max guy this year or next (whether or not that was in the plans), and we are far more limited in our free agency options... all this for an average guard. Not to mention the fact that we helped an Eastern Conference team get more than $30M under the cap and made them a major player. IF Hindlick was going to put us over the top, then I'd buy this as a good move, but we all know he's not going to be anything more than what he's already shown in his career.

Posted by: FunStreet | June 28, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

This is what I'm talking about. What max free agent were we going to get this year? His deal is for 2 years. Next year it is an expiring contract. Have you heard of a sign and trade deal for a free agent? Ted said FA splash was NOT in the plans for this year. Might not even be one for next year.

So who's FA options did we limit? The ones YOU had in mind for the Wizards? Or the ones the actual front office had in mind. We had trade exceptions, cap room...and next year another expiring contract.

Hinrich is average....but brings something steady backcourt play. Who else in our backcourt brought that last season? I'll wait....

Hinrich doesn't do anything to affect any FA plans...and just makes you look stupid to say so.

Hindlick....creative.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 28, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"IF Hindlick was going to put us over the top, then I'd buy this as a good move, but we all know he's not going to be anything more than what he's already shown in his career.Posted by: FunStreet"

LOL Hindlick? I get the feeling that whole post was an excuse to make that joke...

Look, the Wiz are apparently not planning to sign a 'max free agent' this season. Nor are they likely to sign Foye, Miller, or Josh Howard. So in reality, how much does signing Kirk actually limit them? They're already ridiculously young. The Kirkster can spend the year playing perimeter defense (he may be the only one) and become an expiring contract. Who knows, maybe we get lucky and unload Gilbert.

All this high dudgeon over a rebuilding team...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

In this particular case, it means he was dead wrong about the player the other team was targeting with that pick. Doesnt really matter if everybody else (save one) passed on the guy. A winning organization has higher standards then "but everyone else was wrong too"
Posted by: divi3

(Except we traded our pick to Houston, not San Antonio. Houston took Jermaine Taylor).

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

I wish people would stop saying Evans was available with the #5 pick. It just makes me discard anything else you have to say.

Coulda sworn EG said the trade for the 2nd pick last year was predetermined...I don't think anyone saw Blair falling that far.

Still a bad move.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 28, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Never liked that move. Look at the rookies from that draft that we could have had. Jennings, Curry, Evans, James Hardin, Blair. Any of those guys would have put us a year ahead of the process.

Posted by: ged0386

Except that we couldn't have had Evans or Harden who were drafted before the #5 pick. And if we had Curry, Jennings, or Blair, we might not have Wall. And we might have won enough games for EG to justify not blowing up the big 3. So we might actually be a year behind.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that's true too...the team is young. Do you really want Arenas and Blatche to be your veteran presence? Seriously? Come on. Forreal?

This from is the scouting report on Hinrich from ESPN insider:

A combo guard who has few limitations at either spot, Hinrich's greatest value is at the defensive end. Although he usually gives up inches against elite wing players, he's a superb on-ball defender with toughness and good lateral movement, as he showed by checking the much bigger Paul Pierce in the playoffs. Not surprisingly, the Bulls gave up 6.4 points per 100 possessions fewer with Hinrich on the court last season. His size forces him to pick up fouls and he leaves his feet too much, but he's still one of the best backcourt defenders in basketball.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 28, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

"Personally, yes, that's my conclusion. I believe EG was under some pressure not to go any farther into Lux Tax land than he had to. And like they did with their second rounder a few years before, recoup some cash to cover some of the lux tax payments they were already making.
Blair dropped into the second round because of his knee conditions, but he didn't exactly have an Alabi-esque fall. He dropped into the non-guaranteed money, which makes sense, and then he was scooped up.Posted by: ts35"

He fell to 37. I'm trying to remember -- didn't Blair insist on (and get) a 3-year, $3.8 million contract with a partially guaranteed fourth year? That's first round money, right? The Spurs didn't have a number one choice that year, and reportedly used some of McDyess' MLE cash to swing Blair's contract. Had to because the team was already over the cap, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If teams were aware Blair was going to require that to sign, that may also have made them slightly less eager to sign him...

By the way, Blair is not going to play summer league this year, preferring to work out on his own. Final stats were 18 minutes per game, 23 starts, 6.4 rebounds, 7.8 points, 55.5% FGs, 54.7% FTs (FGs higher than FTs?), 0.8 assists, 1.4 TOs. He's supposedly looking to lose weight to improve his lateral mobility...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 28, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Sweetney still plays ball?


From Ridiculous Upside

Washington Wizards Summer League Roster

PG - John Wall, Jon Scheyer, Jerome Randle, Sun Yue

SG - Eric Hayes, Cartier Martin

SF - Raymar Morgan, Kevin Palmer

PF - Trevor Booker, Boo Jackson, Michael Sweetney

C - JaVale McGee, Hamady NDiaye

Posted by: djnnnou | June 28, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

didn't Blair insist on (and get) a 3-year, $3.8 million contract with a partially guaranteed fourth year?

Don't know. He did end up signing a guaranteed deal, that much I know for sure.

If teams were aware Blair was going to require that to sign, that may also have made them slightly less eager to sign him...

No doubt. Though if I were the Wiz, I would think the $700K-$1M would have been worth the gamble. (Again, not my money.)

He's supposedly looking to lose weight to improve his lateral mobility...SNAP!

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I would think the $700K-$1M....per year I should have said.

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

You don't have to draft a PG with the 5th pick. Look and Sacramento this year. They got wild and crazy with the 5th pick and drafted a (*cover your children's eyes*) center!

Posted by: harrybalz

Okay I understand that but, there weren't any other decent players to choose from that high. Not one. Look at the draft that year, who would you have picked (outside of a PG)? Even with what you know now.

Posted by: TCM80 | June 28, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I respect the people who think Hindlick is worth 9M/yr, I just don't agree.

The bulletsforever analysis is pretty good in my opinion:

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/6/26/1536017/the-oklahoma-city-thunder-take-the

Posted by: FunStreet | June 28, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

I just want to explain something to all the fans out there who keep proposing trading Gil and some other player(s) for some star in a sign-and-trade.

I could go on and on about all the basketball realated reasons that these proposed trades would never happen, but instead I'll just point out the simple fact that it's not enough for a team to want to get "something" for the guy who's leaving anyway. The PLAYER would have to actually want to come to the Wizards before a sign-and-trade could be worked out. That's a lot to ask for, much less assume. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!

Focus your attention on players still under contract that the Wizards could trade for or FAs who would not want a max deal.

Posted by: SportzWiz | June 28, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!
Posted by: SportzWiz

When LeBron is wearing the alternate, alternate, bizarro gold and black Wizards road jersey next season, you'll be singing a different tune!!

(totally kidding)

Posted by: ts35 | June 28, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 28, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

I would still sign Howard at the mid level and have a performance clause in the contract. Also, so what did we get for the 5th pick last year? Grunsfeld is still employed? If Howard goes, then what did we get for Caron, Hay, & D Steve? We gave an over prices Jamison away for a pick (not bad) but in total WTF was EG thinking? Was tanking a part of the John Wall plan or something?

Posted by: Gooddad | June 28, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

First off, last year's trade of the #5 pick was made in order to do everything to make one last push with the big three.
Trade was made in the climate then, not now.

But, Ernie clearly had his eye on this summer too, last year's deal clearly bought him room to manuver this summer. Abe was clearly pushing for a win now approach, in his shoes who could blame him.

MM & Foye could both be jetisoned this summer and the team would have had room to make a splash in FA. If the old man wanted to go all in, heard that somewhere, he could have made a play for a major FA AND resigned MM or Foye with the MLE.

But, there's a new owner and a new direction, the surviving Pollins weren't making those deadline deals with out Ted's approval. Ted's been setting the direction of the club since the trade deadline, that's been clear. Ernie cleaned house before Ted took the ownership so Ted starts out fresh and smelling like a rose. Though the team smelled like something else.

But the trade of that #5 last year also ended up buying the cap flexibility to make the Hinrich/Seraphin deal. So in effect Ernie ended up dealing last year's #5 for Hinrich/Seraphin. The flexibility Ernie bought with that deal was better then anybody that was sitting there in last year's draft at the 5.

Wall is one of these guys that migh turn out to be better then his hype. The Wiz's draft grade was an A right there. Hinrich gives him an on court mentor and a guy that will push him and teach him well. Hinrich can play some minutes at the 2, but he's no 2.

I've watched Booker for 4 yrs. in the ACC, he's one of those lunch box players, never take your lunch to the courts cause he's eating it. People keep saying he could have been picked at 30, but he was already off the board at 23. The Wiz dealt to get him at by swapping the 23rd pick for the 30th and 35th and they got the 56th pick. So they traded down in the second to go up in the first. That's your basic no brainer if there's a guy in the first that is a better fit then what's there at your pick.

Booker at 6'7" won't get pushed around in the paint by anybody. He's tough as nails, and has a VERY physical game, he'll run the floor and finish, and he's got a nice midrange game to go with it. Lousy free throw shooter, he cost them some games at the line. But he was expected to finish games there, here he's the 4th or 5th option when he's on the floor.

I thought the might go for a 5, but there's where I think many of us may have not been paying close enough attention to Seraphin. The guy could well be physical enough to play the 5 in the NBA.

If he can play it, I see a clear pattern to Ted & Ernie's excellent adventure. They are trying to assemble a group of guys that can defend, rebound, and fill the lanes on the break and run with Wall.

Seeing some tape of Seraphin, if he's able to play in a rotation with Blatche, McGee, and Booker, the Wiz could have a nice young frontline developingGM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 28, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz dealt to get him at by swapping the 23rd pick for the 30th and 35th and they got the 56th pick. So they traded down in the second to go up in the first. That's your basic no brainer if there's a guy in the first that is a better fit then what's there at your pick.

I did not like trading up for Booker, but I am reserving judgement until I get a chance to see whether or not his talents can translate to the NBA. Rebounding almost always translates, but I am concerned about whether or not he can defend NBA PFs at the same level that his fellow prospects appear to have given him credit for.

And what makes this little trade even more interesting is that I took a look at the second round and realized that Minnesota also had the #45 pick. If the Wiz had been able to grab that pick and used it to grab one of the bigs that were still available there (Gani Lawal) I would have a much more positive feeling about this draft.

Here's hoping that Booker and Seraphin tear it up and help change the team's personality.

Posted by: SportzWiz | June 28, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

The draft last year sucked...period. There was nobody worth taking at the 5th pick and that has proven to be correct. You can play idiotic semantics all you want. Yeah, and for the 80th time Hardin and Evans were GONE already.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 28, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

You talk about Booker - everybody needs someone to cover a power forward and rebound. Nothing wrong with that. He can cover players taller than him because he's got some special physical talent. Teach him a few pet moves on offense and he could fit right in. Everybody's got to know that it's an open audition in training camp, if you play well, you have a pretty good chance of making the club imo. 6+ slots open. Wish I was 22 again.

Posted by: Brue | June 28, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

The scoring void makes Gilbert that much more important. But they need to find a swingman that can contribute offensively. Cuz you're good for about 55 from Gil, Wall, and Blatche (if he maintains his level of play from the end of last year). The bench gives you another 20-25, so you need about 20 combined from the SF and C.

Posted by: justice98 | June 28, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe people are justifying what Ernie did last year with the 5th pick. He blew the draft last year and if not for the must take Wall he blew the rest of the draft. You can't tell me at 5 we couldn't get a player instead of Miller and Foye. You can't tell me with the picks we had this year we couldn't get bigger and faster. The guy is a bum getting paid to do nothing.

How can anyone say a 6'7" PF is going to do anything in this league. Wiz had 3 (Thorton, Singleton and McGuire) of those on the roster already. At least 2 Thornton and Singleton could shoot better than this guy and noone husles more than McGuire.

As long as this team listen to Flip it will go down hill. Teams win inspite of Flip if they even win at all. There's a reason McHale and Dumars fired him. He blames everyone else in Detroit except his stupid system. He had a couple of very good teams in Minn. and did nothing. He'll tell you he made KG, Billups, Stephon.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | June 29, 2010 6:59 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me Mbrown but Thornton plays more 4 than 3 and is a legit 6 foot 8. singleton ditto and plays some center but can defend the 3.

Posted by: Gusdaberean1 | June 29, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

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