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Wizards, Magic discussed Gilbert Arenas-Vince Carter deal


Calm down, everybody. (Photo by Doug Benc/Getty Images)


The Washington Wizards spoke with the Orlando Magic recently about a potential swap of Gilbert Arenas for Vince Carter, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation. The source added that the talks didn't get very far and that it was merely a "business as usual" exploratory conversation between teams around the NBA draft. "Nothing to it now," the source said.

Another league source vehemently shot down speculation that Magic General Manager Otis Smith is pursuing Arenas, considering their close relationship. One prominent player agent sounded less than optimistic about the possible deal. "Not going to happen," he said.

Smith has been one of Arenas's confidants since Arenas was a rookie in Golden State and Smith was a member of the Warriors' front office. Orlando has been rumored as a possible destination for Arenas ever since he received a season-ending, 50-game suspension for bringing guns to the locker room in a dispute with Javaris Crittenton. Arenas initially told those close to him that he had no desire to play again for Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld and added that he would like to go to Orlando, where he has a residence.

Smith offered Arenas advice throughout his legal and personal struggles, urging him to take a lower profile in the midst of the controversy surrounding him. When asked in February about the speculation about a possible reunion of the two in Orlando, Smith didn't exactly shoot down the possibility. "Everyone would make that connection because I'm the general manager and I've been a mentor of his since he came into the league. That's an easy connection," Smith said. "I'm not necessarily sure that's going to happen. We have a long way to go before we get to the basketball portion of his career."

According to multiple league sources, Arenas has actually reversed course about playing in Washington and was excited about teaming with point guard John Wall, who will go first in the NBA draft on Thursday. Arenas communicates regularly with new owner Ted Leonsis and met with him at Leonsis's McLean home on May 25.

Two weeks ago, Leonsis said that the Wizards were not actively shopping Arenas. He said Wizards fans need to "re-embrace" Arenas and doubted that any team would look into acquiring the three-time all-star. Leonsis told a group of Washington Post reporters and editors, "I would ask you to put yourself in another general manager's shoes. He was injured for two years and suspended for a year and he's a max [contract] player. If you were another team's general manager, would you be trading for Gilbert Arenas right now?"

An Arenas-for-Carter swap matches up financially because Arenas is projected to earn $17.7 million next season while Carter will make $17.3 million in the final year of his deal. But Arenas is owed another $62.5 million over the next three years after that, which would be a serious financial commitment for any team that possibly acquires him - even though Arenas has an option to become a free agent after the 2011-12 season.

The Magic could be looking to retool its roster after losing in six games to the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals, taking a step backward after reaching the NBA Finals the year before. Carter, 33, had a disappointing series against Boston, averaging just 13.7 points, and was heavily criticized for the team's shortcomings since he was acquired to help the team win an elusive championship.

Taking Wall on Thursday will be the first step in a rebuilding process for a franchise that has had back-to-back lottery seasons. Wall and Arenas play the same position, but the Wizards have told Wall that they intend on moving Arenas to shooting guard to accommodate him.

Wall said on Wednesday that he has only spoken with Arenas on BlackBerry Messenger and hoped to talk to him at greater length once he becomes a Wizard. "He told me to keep working hard. He asked me how I was doing and he said he was working out in Chicago," Wall said, explaining the depth of his brief chats with Arenas.

By Michael Lee  |  June 24, 2010; 12:29 AM ET
 | Tags: gilbert arenas, orlando magic, vince carter, washington wizards  
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Comments

Are you kidding me???? I'd good taking my chances w/gilbert. FIRST!!!!

Posted by: BBallFOO | June 24, 2010 12:52 AM | Report abuse

We definitely don't need somebody as soft as Vince Carter, breathe on him wrong, and he's on the floor writhing in pain!

Posted by: jbworldwide | June 24, 2010 1:08 AM | Report abuse

Let me preface this by saying that Orlando would never agree to this trade.
That said, a hypothetical...if Gilbert Arenas had one year and 17 million dollars left on his contract would you sign him this summer to a 3 year 51 million dollar extension? Because that is exactly what rejecting an Arenas-Carter trade amounts to.

Posted by: emmet1 | June 24, 2010 1:10 AM | Report abuse

correction: the equivalent would be a 3 year 59 million dollar extension. Carter has one year 17 million left on his contract and 4 million guaranteed for next season. Arenas has four years 80 million left on his contract. So the difference between the two is 3 years and 59 million for Arenas.

Posted by: emmet1 | June 24, 2010 1:12 AM | Report abuse

I would do this deal only if Orlando include their number 1 pick (at 29). This would give us more option to trade up for a mid-round. Vince would most certainly ask for a trade or a buy out (buy out likely, only 17.3 millions instead of 62 millions buyout). I love Gil but it time to move on and he will welcome the move.

Posted by: demonj21 | June 24, 2010 1:18 AM | Report abuse

The only upside of Arenas for Carter is that Carter's contract expires in a year and then they would be free of both of these team-killers much earlier than if they kept Arenas. Hoping to get Orlando to sweeten the deal is sheer nonsense -- not clear they would do it at all, but surely they wouldn't add any draft pix.

Posted by: dolph924 | June 24, 2010 2:03 AM | Report abuse

You can't say Carter can't defend, because he has never tried to defend anyone — nobody knows if he can or not. What is known is that he used to dunk all the time and went to UNC, so pea-brains like Stuart Scott think he's a great player. Dude is Harold Minor with a shaved head. Trading Arenas for this farce of a player would set the Wizards back even further.

I don't know if Grunfeld is smart enough to steer clear of this guy, but the "re-embrace Gilbert" speech from Ted Leonsis is encouraging.

I'll vomit if I ever see Carter in a Washington uniform. Do not go anywhere near Vince Carter. EVER.

Posted by: DC2Dallas | June 24, 2010 3:14 AM | Report abuse

at this point in their careers, i think gilbert is the better player. both have had knee issues, but gilbert is several years younger. vince may have more character, but did not do what orlando thought he would do for them. he also ate up a lot of ball movement and jump shots that rashard lewis (instead of carter) should have taken. theoretically, he was supposed to bring additional "leadership" to the magic... but he didn't. if both are healthy, i think their skills cancel out. other than carter's maturity, i don't see enough gain to make this trade. their skills cancel out.

Posted by: dcjazzman | June 24, 2010 3:46 AM | Report abuse

NO! Gilbert makes Orlando a much better team, possibly the top contender in the East, and obviousy the runaway winner of the Southeast Division, which is also where the Wizzies play. It would be rational to consider this if Orlando played in the West, but in this context, uh-uh.

Posted by: khrabb | June 24, 2010 3:58 AM | Report abuse

Folks, the Wizards are rebuilding and they're going to do it around John Wall, a cast of youngsters, and a big free agent signing a few years down the road. Not around Gilbert Arenas, his gimpy knee and me-first mentality. I make the trade in a flash, see what Carter's expiring contract fetches come the All-Star break and at least enjoy the savings next year.

Posted by: mugsybol | June 24, 2010 4:30 AM | Report abuse

i for one never thought i would be saying that arenas has a rather delicate contract that most clubs will exclude..having said that over reacting to what is in the past can be dangerous ...draft john wall no1...now lets see if we can package a deal..if not..draft the shot blocker from baylor uhoh....the wizards need to get more athletic and run the floor...drafting alibi will hinder an up tempo game i fear...wizards fan must give ted leonsis this year to determine what direction and how fan support can change....mr pollin put this team in a very bad position by offering long term deals to both arenas and jamison...at least we rid ourselves of jamison..lots of excitement to come in washington...enjoy!!

Posted by: wmnatzakanian | June 24, 2010 5:32 AM | Report abuse

NO NO NO NON HELL NO Vince Carter is washed up.....

Posted by: tommycat | June 24, 2010 5:45 AM | Report abuse

It's a shame guys like Vince and Tracy are soft as charmin. They both have/had the talent to be top players in the league. These guys can get numbers in their sleep but you'll never win with them. The deal would be good for the Wiz because of the expiring contract of Vince. He's also more tradeable.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | June 24, 2010 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Free up money for what?

No NBA top ten would come to the wizards.
Why would they it's not like they will be in the playoff hunt this season coming.

So all this crap your saying above is just fantasy.

The Wizards need to build thru the draft because Free Agency will bring them has beens.

End of Story!

Posted by: shamken | June 24, 2010 6:54 AM | Report abuse

I'd trade that knucklehead Areans for some magic beans at this point! If this team really wants to start over fresh, you have to clear out the last of the bad air! Plus, I wouldn't want him within a hundred miles of John Wall!

Posted by: slimjim21787 | June 24, 2010 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Just the fact that they had the conversation makes you wonder about Grunfeld. You mean you couldn't find someone better than Vince Carter who had to be motivated to give the performance he gave during the playoffs. Man don't make us view you like skins fans viewed Vinnie Cerrato.

Posted by: keedrow | June 24, 2010 7:38 AM | Report abuse

I'd rather have one year of Vince Carter than 4 years of Gilbert considering the prices of their contracts. Somebody please tell me how Gilbert's trade value is going to go up as he plays the 2 out of position. Carter represents no kind of long-term solution; it's just for the cap room. It's called "rebuilding", folks.

I still think waiting for the losers in the LeBrosh sweepstakes to scrape up something for their fans makes the most sense -- Gilbert in a new situation is a pretty good sell.

Posted by: minorthread | June 24, 2010 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Uh, is it too late for me to give my final recommendations to Ernie and Ted for tonight? Maybe I'll email Ted directly. Thanks!

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 24, 2010 7:43 AM | Report abuse

Be careful what you anti-Gil posters on this blog wish for. You just might get your wish and it may not turn out like you think. They are going to have to have veterans on the team and to trade Arenas is just straight up ludicrous. There are not as many people against Gil as this blog seems to indicate. It just seems like this blog is an anti-Gil blog.

Posted by: ivyleague | June 24, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Leonsis is saying Arenas is not worth much around the league, which is true. He's not worth much in DC either.

Ted ought to write down the contract and then do what's right for the team.

Arenas is a distraction and bad influence on the younger players.

Posted by: Izman | June 24, 2010 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Arenas is going to prove all you doubters wrong! An Arenas and Wall backcourt is going to be awesome. We'll see if Saunders knows how to exploit the quickness this duo will bring on. Wizards need to acquire a good small forward and another Center. They can't afford to play Blache at center anymore. He is a first class power forward.

Posted by: bobilly1 | June 24, 2010 8:11 AM | Report abuse

Been there done that. Keep Gilbert.

Posted by: mitlen | June 24, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

"Vince would most certainly ask for a trade or a buy out (buy out likely, only 17.3 millions instead of 62 millions buyout)."

Oh, only 17.3 million? No problem! I'm sure Uncle Teddy can find that between the cushions on his sofa! It sure is fun, and easy, to spend other peolple's money for them, isn't it?

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | June 24, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

"I would do this deal only if Orlando include their number 1 pick (at 29). This would give us more option to trade up for a mid-round."Posted by: demonj21

It works that way in football and hockey, but in the NBA? I'm trying to recall the last time I saw teams swap a mid-first-round choice for a couple at the butt-end of the first. I don't think it's at all common. The talent is just too thin. Now this year may be an exception, because of the class' depth, but I'd still be surprised to see it. Much less surprising would be trades such as the one involving Miami and the Thunder, where Miami was mainly interested in freeing up cash for a FA.

Might be a little different for OKC (18th, 21st, 26th) if say there was a player they really wanted at 12 or 13 and they packaged two of their picks to trade up with a club that wasn't interested in him.

Allegedly Larry Bird wants out of the 10 spot but he wants a PG in return, and has a list of young players he's interested in, none of whom are rookies. Outside of Wall this isn't a PG class like last year.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

I say NO emphatically to this trade. Did everyone see how bad Vince Carter played in the playoffs. He's pretty much over. To even suggest an Arenas / Carter swap makes me thing the Wizards are slipping. I'd rather see how Wall-Arenas will blend than to have Vince Carter here. If he had impress in the playoffs it may be different. But dude was often benched because he couldn't shoot the rock, made bad plays,and didn't hustle. The Magic bought him in to be a difference maker and he made a difference alright. NO TRADE NO WAY.

Posted by: washdc11 | June 24, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Again, it is a real joke.
VC will go in seconds.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 24, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

"Be careful what you anti-Gil posters on this blog wish for. You just might get your wish and it may not turn out like you think. They are going to have to have veterans on the team and to trade Arenas is just straight up ludicrous. There are not as many people against Gil as this blog seems to indicate. It just seems like this blog is an anti-Gil blog.Posted by: ivyleague"

Nah, that's just me. I'm tired of Gil, but I'm pretty sure everyone else in the Washington area thought the gun bit was cute and pooping in rookie's shoes is funny.

By the way, what Ivy League school did you attend?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I hate to break the news to some of you guys, but we're going to stink this year anyway. It's a no-brainer to swap Gilbert, a 3 year liability, for VC, a one year liability. I don't see the Magic agreeing to it, though.

Posted by: shovetheplanet | June 24, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Call me crazy, but maybe Ted Leonsis is resigned to the reality that he can't unload Arenas and his contract yet, and is therefore just making the best of it.

And just maybe Gilbert is doing exactly the same thing.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Trading Arenas for Carter would be like trading a nice plate of fried fish for a dead minnow. Did YOU NOT SEE the NBA playoffs this year???? Next idea... please.

Posted by: DJO1 | June 24, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Carter probably has as much natural talent as anyone who's ever played the game. Unfortunately, that talent hasn't transferred to anything constructive for any period of time on the basketball court. The only advantage to the deal would be to off-load Arenas' contract to some dumb franchise. Orlando isn't a dumb franchise and they're not taking Gil's contract.

Posted by: randysbailin | June 24, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

It's funny.

I agree with everyone else on here, I don't like Vince Carter.

I'd take Gil any day of the week over that jackass. Talk about a "cancer."

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 24, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Listen up, people.

VC for GA is not about trading for equal talent or getting players who are at similar points in their careers. It's about removing the last vestiges of the cancerous core known as the Big 3 and ridding the franchise of an albatross of a contract. $17 million vs. $80 million. Ernie would be crowned 2011 Executive of the Year 10 months early if he could pull this off.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 24, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

"Leonsis is saying Arenas is not worth much around the league, which is true. He's not worth much in DC either.Ted ought to write down the contract and then do what's right for the team.Arenas is a distraction and bad influence on the younger players.Posted by: Izman"

Basically, I agree with you. If you're going to start over, then start over. And I suspect upper management would do just that if they had their druthers. But for some reason, they feel they can't. And I'm guessing it has to do with $$.

But if they're 'exploring' trades for guys like Vince Carter, then they're definitely willing to absorb some pain in order to unload Arenas. Vince actually played well this season until the Boston series, but nobody thinks he's a building block for anyone's future.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Another big rumor, probably real.
EG spend more time yesterday with the GM of hornets to try to trade down to #11,he is forced to take the 3 year 16 million contract of James posey and give up the 30th pick.I am not sure about the result of the extensive conversation.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 24, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

"Listen up, people.VC for GA is not about trading for equal talent or getting players who are at similar points in their careers. It's about removing the last vestiges of the cancerous core known as the Big 3..."posted by bobabuie

Listen up, person. Jamison and Butler weren't team 'cancers.'

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

A couple of the referees were more involved in the Magic offense than VC was during the playoffs.

Posted by: randysbailin | June 24, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

"Unfortunately, [Vince Carter's] talent hasn't transferred to anything constructive for any period of time on the basketball court."

I always wonder about statements like the above -- do people know it's nonsense and post it anyway? I mean, we're talking about a guy with a 12 year career average of 23 points, 5.3 boards, 4.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 44.7% on FGs, 37.5% for 3-pointers, and 80% on FTs.

Notice I didn't mention those 8 All-Star appearances.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

You absolutely make this deal if the Magic was willing to pull the trigger. With Gil and Wall, this is probably a 30-35 win team. With VC and Wall, it's maybe a 25-30 win team. With Gil we'd likely have a better record (assuming that he's healthy all year which is definitely not a lock considering he hasn't played extensively in 3 seasons!) but the Wiz would still suck. This move would be all about trading an untradeable contract. How good or bad we are this year is irrelevant - the Wiz need to look to 2011 and beyond for their rebuilding efforts and that means clearing out overpaid vets, creating cap room, and building through the draft.

Posted by: jhcarson | June 24, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I trade Gilbert for a case of Brauts and some beer. I still don't understand how Washington fans can like him.

Posted by: MARKHAGNER | June 24, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Listen up, person. Jamison and Butler weren't team 'cancers.'

Posted by: Samson151


Listen up, dolt.

Butler and Jamison were selfish players. Butler wanted to be the man and was seeking a big contract. Couldn't accomplish either goal and destroyed any cohesion the Wizards were trying to build on the team. He later admitted that he was deeply affected by the whole situation.

Jamison undermined the coach by refusing to play within the offense and abandoning his penchant for threes early and often, and I won't even mention his refusal to play a lick of defense. As much as he talked about a championship, he appeared to be more interested in his offensive numbers. Either that or he's a dumb player. I think the former.

Butler and Jamison were thinking about themselves over the team.

In a team sport, selfish = cancer.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 24, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

I want to give Gilbert another "shot". He is a good man that has done more for this city and its people than any other player in DC now. He did a stupid thing but we should wait and see if he has learned from it. Also with new ownership I get the feeling there will be more accountability on the team and Gil might respond well to some structure. If he can adjust to the 2 guard we may end up with an even better backcourt than Gil and Larry.

Posted by: larrygate | June 24, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't quite call this year a rebuilding year. With Wall and Arenas in the back court and Blatche coming into his own last year I think that all that we have to do is use some of that money and add a suitable center and we may be on to something. You know how Gil is about proving naysayers wrong. Not to mention that they Wiz might even sign Josh Howard. That line up looks pretty good to me. Also think about the fact that Gil hasn't really played in a game for over 2 years, so the wear of the game is not there. Lets wait and see what transpires.

Posted by: sirmixx01 | June 24, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I still don't understand how Washington fans can like him.

Posted by: MARKHAGNER

Well, he's the best player the team has had in a long time and he's never done anything to me.

Posted by: millineumman | June 24, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

8th seed was .500 last year and no team should go into a season assuming .500 is an unrealistic goal. No reason to write off the upcoming season without even knowing what the roster looks like yet. The East is terribly weak, it should never be assumed a season is automatically lotto bound.

Posted by: divi3 | June 24, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I think the Wiz are stuck with Arenas and vice-versa until he comes back and hopefully proves he can still play at a high level. There were signs before his injury and the chance to play at shooting guard where his defensive shortcomings won't be as noticeable should be a help to him. He definitely no longer had the quickness to match up with most PG's and is better suited as a scorer at the 2 position.

VC will be traded by Orlando, but likely not until near the trade deadline when his expiring contract becomes more desirable. I'm sure Orlando wishes they could give him away to free up cap space to make a run at top FA but that won't happen.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Vince could not handle DC. With all the fade away 3's, long jumpers and non-contact injuries, DC will revolt against bringing VC here. Gilbert is an immature as_, but he plays when he can. his lack of defense is nothing compared to a player being viewed as a punk. Plain and simple, Vince carter is a punk and DC would go crazy (rebellion) if he were here.

Posted by: oknow1 | June 24, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Gil might be the over-paid SG in the entire NBA next year, but I'll take him over Wince Carter.

Posted by: closg | June 24, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Three words: "DON'T DO IT!"

Vince Carter??? Why are the Wizards even thinking about bringing that bum to DC? Even the most irrational Arenas haters would rather have Gil than Vince freakin' Carter.

All I want is for the Wizards to sit tight this off-season, maintain cap-flexibility, and go HARD after Carmelo or Durant next summer. Please Wizards, don't screw this up!

Posted by: MEssex | June 24, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I am sorry to hear that Arenas has been in contact with John Wall. The less he is around the kid the better.

Posted by: Oilcan4148 | June 24, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

"Vince Carter??? Why are the Wizards even thinking about bringing that bum to DC? Even the most irrational Arenas haters would rather have Gil than Vince freakin' Carter."

It has absolutely nothing to do with getting Vinsanity and everything to do with moving Gil to ANY TEAM that will take him.

Posted by: divi3 | June 24, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I am sorry to hear that Arenas has been in contact with John Wall. The less he is around the kid the better.

Posted by: Oilcan4148 | June 24, 2010 10:21 AM

I agree. Arenas should be forbidden from participating in the hazing of rookies.
If he comes into contact with them, all they should talk about is basketball.
No video games, no paintball, no crapping in shoes.

Posted by: rickgonz | June 24, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Ok,ok,.....

I have given it more thought.

The ONLY way you make this trade is if you can turn around and trade Vince after you get him.

He can't be on his team, he's going to hate it and so are the fans. But it doesn't look like it is going to happen anyway.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 24, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

I'm trying to recall the last time I saw teams swap a mid-first-round choice for a couple at the butt-end of the first.
Posted by: Samson151

"ESPN.com's Andy Katz reported Tuesday night that the Memphis Grizzlies and Minnesota Timberwolves were talking about swapping first round picks. The Grizzlies would send picks No. 25 and No. 28 to the Timberwolves for No. 16."

Hasn't officially happened yet, but there are definitely plenty of deals out there being talked about.

Posted by: ts35 | June 24, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

"ESPN.com's Andy Katz reported Tuesday night that the Memphis Grizzlies and Minnesota Timberwolves were talking about swapping first round picks. The Grizzlies would send picks No. 25 and No. 28 to the Timberwolves for No. 16."

Interesting. We'll have to see if it happens.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

In terms of the Gil / VC trade....

First of all, the 'discussion' is not really news. GMs talk about all sorts of things all the time. Part of the job. It could have been as simple as both of them reading the blognoscenti such as Wilbon suggesting the deal as a possible destination for Gil. Then EG calls Smith as says "You read that Wilbon column?" "Yeah" "What do you think?" "I think it sucks for both of us" "Yeah, me too". Then next day in the paper, it's reported that they had a 'discussion' about the possible trade.

In terms of the talent and age factors, etc. Gilbert is by far the better player. The only two parts of it that work out for DC is getting out from under Gil's long term deal (if they don't feel like he's part of the team's future) and that VC will be a little more motivated than usual because he's likely a FA after the season and will be playing for what will likely be his last NBA contract. Like many players, I believe he had his best season the last time he was up for a contract.

Posted by: ts35 | June 24, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Interesting. We'll have to see if it happens.

Posted by: Samson151

I'm trying to remember another year when this many teams have been actively pursuing trading their picks, either trying to move up, down, in or out.

Posted by: ts35 | June 24, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"Listen up, dolt...Butler and Jamison were thinking about themselves over the team.In a team sport, selfish = cancer.Posted by: bobabuie"

We must have different definitions of team cancer. A selfish player is one who focuses on getting his own numbers -- you're talking about a good chunk of the scorers in the NBA, particularly in contract years. Some players like JR Smith and Corey Maggette are often referred to as 'selfish' because of their preoccupation with their personal stats, but they're not viewed as team cancers.

A team cancer, in my book, is a player whose behavior is an ongoing disruption to club morale, and therefore to the team's performance. A team cancer doesn't even have to be on the court -- Stephon Marbury and Eddy Curry weren't. A good player like Latrell Sprewell can become a team cancer even though he's not particularly selfish on the court. A player like Ron Artest is generally not regarded by coaches and teammates as a team cancer, even though he can be frustrating to play with and selfish in the extreme.

We probably have the same definition of 'dolt', however.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"I'm trying to remember another year when this many teams have been actively pursuing trading their picks, either trying to move up, down, in or out.Posted by: ts35"

Might be a reflection of the depth of the class, or the FA situation. The Miami-OKC deal was definitely about free agency, although OKC really does need help with 3 point shooting, and perhaps they think Cook might provide it. I'm told the Maggette deal was about the possibility of Milwaukee losing John Salmons to another team. There, the second round choice was clearly to balance the equation.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Most of the trade activity I've heard about concerns veterans. Like the Wolves seeking to move Al Jefferson and talking to Indiana about Troy Murphy, Detroit about Prince, and Memphis about Zach Randolph. Contract factors weigh heavily in all these potential deals. If Minnesota can move Jefferson, they'd do so with the idea of getting Favors or Cousins with their pick.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

More likely is this rumored deal: Jonny Flynn to Indiana for the #10 pick, plus the Pacers throwing in another player and getting in return one or both of the Timberwolves' later picks (they have 16 and 23 and seem interested in getting rid of both). Wonder if Minny would be interested in taking Nick Young for one of those picks.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Miami pulled the trigger and dealt down from 18. Wizards have now been linked to the Hornets and the 11 pick the Wiz would have to give up the 30th pick and take James Posey according to the rumors.

I'd list Posey as a possible buyout caidiate, though Ted would have to foot most of his contract since he'd probably only get a vet min. deal for a couple of years somewhere else.

Basically it would come down to paying 11-12m to trade up from 30 to 11. Difference is there would be some real honest to God talent at 11.

Tonight we get to see if Leonsis is really that aggressive owner we've all been waiting for. It's going to be an interesting night to watch the draft and see if Ted is serious about rebuilding through the draft. To build through the draft he's got to find extra picks earlier in the draft where the real talent is.

Ted get that check book ready, Ernie's got the chance to buy the Wiz's way up in the draft so tonight's the night to make a big splash while the league's all watching.

Indiana and Chicago are two other teams that are rumored to want to deal out of the first round, seems like Ernie should be able to get something done somewhere.

Sign the checks and buy the picks and get some young talent to build around Wall...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 24, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Here's something from ESPN on that curious Miami-OKC trade:

"...this puts the Miami Heat payroll at $44 million entering free agency. That's a figure that is enough to re-sign Dwyane Wade and potentially bring in two maximum-contract players. This certainly puts the Heat in the driving seat with July 1st just around the corner. However, are there negatives to this trade? Was it worth it to offload Cook, an inconsistent yet promising shooter? What about the 18th pick and potential rookies that could have been taken at that slot?"

"..Cook, while dangerous from the perimeter, has regressed from his sophomore season and will never get the number of minutes needed for him flourish...He fell out of the rotation this year due to his streaky play and it would be wiser to bring in a veteran to play behind Wade than continue investing in Cook."

"The 18th pick in the draft may sound appealing due to the notions of this year's draft being deep, but how many 18th picks in the past have made a notable difference for the teams that drafted them? Since the year 2000 the 18th pick in the draft has only produced one All-Star: David West. After him, there is a notable drop-off to J.R. Smith and a bunch of borderline starters."

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Since Leonis has stated that the approach by the Wizards will be similar to the Cap's plans - draft, draft, draft - I can't see how this move would fit.

Sure, it frees up cap space faster but I think Leonsis would want to move veterans for draft picks. Although that's harder to do in the NBA than the NHL, obviously.

I still think they're going to try real hard to move up in the first round with that second pick.

Posted by: SteveMG | June 24, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

VINCE CARTER?!?!??!! Didn't that guy retire about 5 years ago, or is it that he should've. And please don't give me any business about what a great mentor he would be for John Wall. Yikes.

Posted by: ShovelPlease | June 24, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I trade Gilbert for a case of Brauts and some beer. I still don't understand how Washington fans can like him.

Posted by: MARKHAGNER |
to much 1 braut 1 beer

Posted by: crucken1 | June 24, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I trade Gilbert for a case of Brauts and some beer. I still don't understand how Washington fans can like him.

Posted by: MARKHAGNER |
to much 1 braut 1 beer

Posted by: crucken1

Both of you guys are nuts.

I'd be satisfied with an empty (as always) ketchup dispenser from the Verizon Center. Arenas' time has come and gone.

Posted by: harrybalz | June 24, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

WALL and ARENAS in the backcourt. Great! We should get DWIGHT HOWARD AND VINCE CARTER for ARENAS. ARENAS is that good! Our savior. Amen.

Posted by: glawrence007 | June 24, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

"The ONLY way you make this trade is if you can turn around and trade Vince after you get him."

Yeah, but the only thing Ted would likely really want for him is picks; I can't see him taking equivalent guaranteed contracts back in exchange for Carter. That pretty much scuttles any deal he could use Carter in.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Horrible Trade. Carter is an old washed up bum. If completed it would be just to get rid of Arenas's big contract. Still would be stupid.

Posted by: jerod1 | June 24, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Some of you fans are truly clueless.

You're not getting Carter to keep him, you're getting Vince to clear space and get rid of Arenas.

This is a great deal for the Wizards if Otis Smith is dumb enough to do it. Which I don't think he is.

As a Magic fan, I don't even want Arenas in the state of Florida.

Arenas needs to learn to embrace the team concept.

Sorry Wiz fans, you guys are stuck with that problem.

Posted by: magicInMiami | June 24, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse


rmcazz = wagoneer

Posted by: hessone | June 24, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

hessone = yawn

Posted by: tgif11 | June 24, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse


tgif11 = nebby

Posted by: hessone | June 24, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Why think about trading Gil now!! You've wasted 3 seasons an now you don't want to rep the benefits of having a Gil with something to prove? He will back to his all-star form. Watch how all the phonies try to come running back in December when his putting up his All-Star numbers and the Wizards are better than people think. We got rid of the biggest problem already that was the selfish Caron Butler.

Posted by: lemekdivine | June 24, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey Samson-you're firing on all cylinders today. Thanks for articulating what you feel is selfish vs cancerous for Bababouie. Far too many fans paint with really broadstrokes when opining on players. Your examples were solid.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 24, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I've said all along that a parting of the ways would, in the long run, benefit both Arenas and the Wizards. But I've also said that giving him away for nothing just to get rid of him is a premature move. That's essentially what this deal would amount to. Unless they have reason to think Arenas is just done as a productive player (and there was no indication of that last season) then their best strategy is to let him play, polish up his on-court value, and see how desperate some of the would-be contenders are at the deadline.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

My God make that trade please. I think that trade would be good for Orlando and GREAT for the Wizards.

I don't think it's smart to have Arenas anywhere near Wall. We need to start all the way over and that includes Arenas if at all possible. In fact include fools gold Blatche if at all possible.

But I would try to sign Haywood if he is available at a decent number.

Posted by: kevenjones | June 24, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Why think about trading Gil now!! You've wasted 3 seasons an now you don't want to rep the benefits of having a Gil with something to prove?
lemekdivine
-----------
Good point, the guy will probably be much more humble and the Wiz will benefit. I don't know where all these "throw em' off the team" fans have come from" it's the same with the Redskins...."kick em' off the team, get rid of them...trade em...cut em'..."

It's trip how many fans in the DMV see in absolutes where player behavior is concerned, it's like, "He made a mistake!!Off with his head!!!!....No Mercy"

I didn't think this was that type of fan base, I couldn't have been more wrong. This fan base is a b$tchy one.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 24, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

A team cancer, in my book, is a player whose behavior is an ongoing disruption to club morale, and therefore to the team's performance. Posted by: Samson151

By that definition, Butler and Jamison were indeed cancers.

As just one example (and there are many), you think the players' morale was boosted after Butler breaking off a play drawn up for a teammate, only to see that clown not look for the teammate,force a one-on-one attempt and throw the game away. You think the young players didn't notice that Flip talked ad nauseum about not taking bad shots early in the shot clock, only to see Jamison come out at the START of the very next game and launch three after three with 16-18 seconds left on the clock (and attempt to play no defense on the other end). When the team captains disrespect the coach, the ship be sinkin'. They fit your definition of cancer to a "T".

Good riddance to them both.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 24, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

A team cancer, in my book, is a player whose behavior is an ongoing disruption to club morale, and therefore to the team's performance. Posted by: Samson151

By that definition, Butler and Jamison were indeed cancers.

As just one example (and there are many), you think the players' morale was boosted after Butler broke off a play drawn up for a teammate, only to see that clown not look for the teammate,force a one-on-one attempt and throw the game away? You think the young players didn't notice that Flip talked ad nauseum about not taking bad shots early in the shot clock, only to see Jamison come out at the START of the very next game and launch three after three with 16-18 seconds left on the clock (and attempt to play no defense on the other end)? When the team captains disrespect the coach, the ship be sinkin'. They fit your definition of cancer to a "T".

Good riddance to them both.

Posted by: bobabuie | June 24, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think this was that type of fan base, I couldn't have been more wrong. This fan base is a b$tchy one.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 24, 2010 1:32 PM

yeah, surely most places would be rolling out the red carpet for Gil at this point. So odd there are people disillusioned with him after he brought multiple firearms to the team's facility. Picky, picky, DC fans

Posted by: divi3 | June 24, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

If Jamison and Butler were team cancers, what would that make Arenas and Haywood? Ebola viruses? Bubonic plague?

Posted by: divi3 | June 24, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse


@ArmchairGM

Just don't think sports in general needs this kind of element ( Arenas, Big Ben, Stompworth), no matter the talent level. Give a well behaved player a shot at playing.

Posted by: hessone | June 24, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

yeah, surely most places would be rolling out the red carpet for Gil at this point. So odd there are people disillusioned with him after he brought multiple firearms to the team's facility. Picky, picky, DC fans-divi3
----------
Again, with the smart mouth-who said anything about rolling out carpets? My point is every transgression by a player can't be seen as an unforgivable. Crittenden committed the greater offense-loading up his gun and throwing Arenas' guns around not knowing if the guns were loaded.

Now Divi3-let me ask you something? Is it possible for you and most of these jokers on this board to reply to anything without sarcasm? I mean, I come on these boards for serious discussion about the Skins' & Wiz only to see a contest for who can make the most smart-a$$ retort. Talk about disillusionment.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 24, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

What's up Hess?

It's tiring to see the adversarial comments by imperfect fans toward players.

Remember, Big Ben didn't get convicted of anything. It was groupie-love gone wrong.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 24, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Hess, we aren't our brother's keeper in that regard. We can't make perfect lil' athletes that don't make mistakes-we just can't. So unless it's a rape, murder or something really serious, some idiot, macho nonsense with unloaded guns is not unforgivable. D.Goodrich of the Cowboys plowed into 2 people killing them, Leonard Little had a manslaughter charge, Rae Carruth, and Ray Lewis and so on. That's when you want to get rid of guys. Not for pouting, not for a dumb prank.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 24, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

What a horrifying idea.

Posted by: sleby | June 24, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

The grass is not greener on the Carter side Agent Zero and Wall are both rough-necks they will work well together. Just stay out of Barry Farms then both of them will be wasted!!

Posted by: kellyhutch7 | June 24, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

armchair

You're not really suggesting that Gil's felonious behavior was just boys being boys or a dumb prank, are you? Gil is now a felon and with good reason. If Crit had thought that Gil meant business, we could be discussing how sad it is that someone got beat down or lost their life in that locker room. Gil's judgement was incredibly poor for a guy with so much to lose. My two cents.

Posted by: gimmedat | June 24, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Come to think of it, Vince Carter is the Joey Galloway of the NBA. And isn't one Joey Galloway in this town one too many.

Posted by: ShovelPlease | June 24, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse


@ArmchairGM

Staying cool dude. My adversarial comment about boycotting $nyder got me in a heap of trouble the other day. Fair game you know. Arenas has never lived up to what he could be. I think he a head case that we should rid ourselve of. The gun thing just put it over the top.

Posted by: hessone | June 24, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Just absolutely poor reporting, using anonmynous sources, for the sole purposes of throwing meat to the masses. There is no way this is going to happen but Lee - as typical of Post sports reports (who can ever forget Jason CaCa) is making up stuff with the hopes it will stick and people will pay attention to his little blog. Job well done Mikey!

Posted by: h20law2000 | June 24, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, a flashy has-been who hogs the ball versus an old has been who has lost step. WHATABARGIN!!

Posted by: dbeins | June 24, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"All I want is for the Wizards to sit tight this off-season, maintain cap-flexibility, and go HARD after Carmelo or Durant next summer. Please Wizards, don't screw this up!"

Denver has all but resigned Anthony and Durrant likes it right where he's at. He's publicly said so! The only thing that will screw up, is Wall, if they let Arenas around him for a few years!

Posted by: slimjim21787 | June 24, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"Uh, is it too late for me to give my final recommendations to Ernie and Ted for tonight? Maybe I'll email Ted directly. Thanks!"

LMAO, anybody can at TheWashWiz@aol.com

I wrote and Ted wrote me back that afternon

Posted by: slimjim21787 | June 24, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"rmcazz = wagoneer"

Lol...not. :)

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 24, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

"LMAO, anybody can at TheWashWiz@aol.com

I wrote and Ted wrote me back that afternon"

He wrote me back also. I was gonna post it, but to be honest it looked like Ted just cut and pasted my name in a generic email. :)

I made all kinds of suggestions too, which he never responded to any of. No biggy, it was still kind of nice to get it.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 24, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

My reaction was exactly the same as BBALLFOO-- "Are you kidding me?" Did Ernie watch Carter's UN-performance against the Celtics? He totally mailed it in and disappeared ON THE COURT. If EG even picked up the phone on this one, Ted needs to seriously consider a change at the helm. It's just total nonsense. Gilbert would NEVER go through the motions like Carter did.

Posted by: JoeTink | June 24, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

"A team cancer, in my book, is a player whose behavior is an ongoing disruption to club morale, and therefore to the team's performance. Posted by: Samson151"
"By that definition, Butler and Jamison were indeed cancers.As just one example (and there are many), you think the players' morale was boosted after Butler broke off a play drawn up for a teammate, only to see that clown not look for the teammate,force a one-on-one attempt and throw the game away? You think the young players didn't notice that Flip talked ad nauseum about not taking bad shots early in the shot clock, only to see Jamison come out at the START of the very next game and launch three after three with 16-18 seconds left on the clock (and attempt to play no defense on the other end)? When the team captains disrespect the coach, the ship be sinkin'. They fit your definition of cancer to a "T"."
Posted by: bobabuie"

You're proving my point. All players fail to follow the coach's instructions from time to time, and draw legit criticism for it; you'd have to include Kobe, Michael, KG, and LeBron in that group. That's not what being a team cancer is about.

And in some instances, the coach is in the wrong.

This is silliness. That's all for me.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Bobabuie is RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

Posted by: JoeTink | June 24, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

And in some instances, the coach is in the wrong.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2010 2:53 PM

Flip was totally wrong to expect Butler and Jamison to take good shots and play defense. Fire him, Ernie. I know he's your boy, but you gotta fire him!!

Posted by: gimmedat | June 24, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

the rumor would be true if ted will let him go ..source says ted doesnt want to trade gilbert..but orlando wants gilbert bad..he bought a house there he changed his numbert from 0 becuz the gm said he doesnt allow 0 on his team...and thats why no one has seen or heard from gilbert becuz the gm said keep a low profile and let everything blow over and ill will get u here....ARENAS WILL BE IN ORLANDO AND WE WILL GET SORRY CRY BABY VINCE....

Posted by: MrNoOne | June 24, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse


@rmcazz

Peace my brother!

Posted by: hessone | June 24, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Wizards have now been linked to the Hornets and the 11 pick the Wiz would have to give up the 30th pick and take James Posey according to the rumors.

I like the sound of the rumored trade w/New Orleans.

I had also heard that Ernie was talking alot w/the Hornets' GM, but I heard that New Orleans just wanted to do a straight cash dump MoPete and others plus the #11 Pick for the Wizards' trade exceptions.

Either deal makes sense based on what Ted has said he wants to do. The Wiz need bodies to fill out the roster and some of them may become tradeable at the mid-season trade deadline (in Posey's case it would probably not happen for at least one more year because of the money he is still owed).

But, I want the team to have a late 1st rounder still available when the dust settles. Early second round picks that blossom leave for big bucks sooner, because they have shorter deals.

Posted by: SportzWiz | June 24, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

We just got Hinrich and #17 pick from Chicago. So the #17 pick Chicago drafts is for us. I bet we only had to give up some cash. Hinrich is going to be a good fit on this team. I am already excited about this good start!

Posted by: kitkool | June 24, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

very dumb if they do for who going to score for the team.all thid HYPE on Wall is hype for he may not be the team stater at the point the 1st half of the year. will soon but I belive that if stay Livingston will start at 1st.

Posted by: lostdogrwd1011 | June 24, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Why exactly would the Wizards do this?

Carter is an over-rated, over-paid baby who couldnt come up big if his life depended on it

I mean, Gilbert at least has some big shots to his name

Posted by: Bious | June 24, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

While we're following this NON TRADE story (this is NOT happening), ESPN is reporting that the Wiz have a deal in place for Kirk Henrich and their 17th pick, for something...and it can't be for a player because Chicago wants to get cap space for 2 free agents

Posted by: joep6 | June 24, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Don't ruin a happy/ hopeful night....Carter is a HAS BEEN.....and NOT the direction this team needs to be going....i agree, rather take my chances with Gilbert than make some WES UNSELD buffoon trade for over the hill baggage...

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | June 24, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Arenas for their one package a one and a player to move up to 3 get what's his name the center from Kentucky not at all because they were teammates but i don't think they would turn out to be michigan militia webber and whatever.

Posted by: southportwave | June 24, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

I've told all of you time and again the man's(EG) is an idiot an Arenas for Carter deal would be one of the worst trades in NBA history but i'm sure some of you would be pleased to see Gil gone, yeah so he can come back and torch us and get the Magic to the final's for sure,the fact that Grunfeld would allow such stupidity to make the print of any newspaper let alone this hometown fishwrap show's just how empty headed he truly is.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 24, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

ARENAS IS BEST AS A SHOOTING GUARD!!!

I think the Wall/Arenas combo will be an exellent match for Wahshington. The Wizards are not in a position to let him go yet and with Wall running the offense it will open up more opportunities for Gilbert to have open looks and work off the perimeter. Anybody use to watch Gil at Arizona? He was a #2 Guard after Jason Gardner and was the X-factor on Arizona's runner-up team in 2001. Gilbert was the man then as a #2, and he will be again. I don't see him going anywhere until Washington has a chance to feel out this Wall/Arenas combo. They are both great guards and Arenas has the mental capacity to step it down a notch and play the team game. Last season's problems should be enough to make him eat some humble pie and re-think his approach.

Posted by: joncotle | June 28, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"I trade Gilbert for a case of Brauts and some beer." This is why you are not coaching professional basketball!

Posted by: joncotle | June 29, 2010 5:39 AM | Report abuse

jbworldwide- says "We definitely don't need somebody as soft as Vince Carter, breathe on him wrong, and he's on the floor writhing in pain!"

HMM. I have to admit that Arenas is quite the warrior as he's managed to be involved in 47 games for the last 3 years. Arenas is really a man of steel.

joncotle - says "I trade Gilbert for a case of Brauts and some beer." This is why you are not coaching professional basketball!

Jon - I'll give you brauts but I'm not going to give you any beer! On second thought you can keep Arenas.

I was looking for a list of the NBA's most overpaid and guess who was number 1.
You guessed it, and it was Arenas and here are a few of Matt LeFleur's comments. This was written on January 20, 2010.
http://www.thestevenetwork.ca/2010/01/20/the-nba’s-10-most-overpaid-players/

1. Gilbert Arenas (WSH) – $16.1M per / 5 years remaining

Who else could it be? In less than four weeks Agent Zero has gone from goofy and overpaid to the most toxic, untradeable athlete in professional sports. Unfortunately for Gil he would have topped this list even if he hadn’t lost his marbles and (possibly) the remaining $80 million on his contract.

Like Brand, Arenas suffered a major injury and opted out of the final year of his contract in order to sign his current deal (one in which Washington offered him $24 million more than the next highest bidder, the Warriors, and added an extra year). Arenas thanked Washington by ignoring team doctors and rehabbing his knee on his own schedule. Predictably, Arenas then blamed the organization for “not looking out for him” after suffering a relapse in his recovery.

Even before the “incident,” this season was turning into a complete disaster. In the games he was actually healthy enough to play, Arenas hogged the ball, broke plays to launch contested 25-footers and almost single-handedly destroyed Caron Butler’s all-star numbers. If Washington can void Arenas’ contract, it may just be the luckiest break in the history of professional sports.

Posted by: rickywarner49 | July 1, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

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