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JaVale McGee starts with a blast, finishes quietly

JaVale McGee is a lock to make Team USA -- if managing director Jerry Colangelo and Coach Mike Krzyzewski based their decision solely on his performance in the first two minutes of the second quarter of Saturday's USA Basketball Showcase. Unfortunately for McGee, a lot more will be taken into account, and he remains on the fringe.


I'm still coming after it. (Photo by Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE/Getty Images)

McGee entered the scrimmage and had an immediate influence, making three straight shots -- including a slam dunk after a pass from former Georgetown star Jeff Green -- and blocking a shot. It was frenzied but purposeful stretch, but McGee was unable to sustain it. He finished with seven points, three rebounds and a blocked shot in just over nine minutes -- the fewest of any player -- as his blue team lost to the Kevin Durant's white team, 114-96, at Thomas & Mack Center on the campus of UNLV. Durant led all scorers with 28 points.

"When you get your time, try to make the most of it and that's what I tried to do," McGee told reporters after the game.

Colangelo and Krzyzewski plan to whittle down the team from 19 players to 14 or 15 by Monday. USA Basketball is limited up front, but Tyson Chandler had the best performance of any center on the floor, as he collected 13 points on 6-for-6 shooting, which all seemed to come in the form of uncontested dunks. Brook Lopez played 13 minutes but scored two points with no rebounds. And, Lamar Odom actually started at center ahead of Chandler, only to score two points.

When McGee was on the floor in the second half, it didn't seem as if his teammates were looking to do much inside, with point guards Chauncey Billups and Rajon Rondo mostly driving and kicking out to shooters. He took a bad turnaround jumper, but McGee was mostly a spectator running up and down the floor, watching the ball flung into the air.

After the game, Colangelo was asked specifically about McGee and said, "He's young, but he does a couple of things that, in international ball, is giving him the benefit of the doubt. He can block some shots. He can rebound. He's young. He's learning. And so that's who he is. Finally, we have to determine whether or not we have space in the 15 to bring him to New York. And we haven't made that decision yet."

Colangelo has already stated that he may keep all of his centers for the next round of cuts in New York, where the final 12-man roster will get set in a few weeks. No matter what happens from here, McGee said that he had a memorable experience. "It was a lot of fun. I just enjoyed being around the guys, some of the elite players in the league and guys had great personalities and we were having fun. I felt like we were all working hard and just came out and played our hardest."


By Michael Lee  |  July 25, 2010; 5:35 PM ET
Categories:  JaVale McGee  
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Next: Kirk Hinrich: "It's great to be wanted"

Comments

Am not familiar with all the invite rules but it would seem to me if the Team can't go back from here and pick up players not already here (centers) then they would have to keep McGee at least through the next round of things.

Even if he doesn't make the team it would seem that they would want to have all the available centers through the next round of things just for Team cohesion.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 25, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Settle down, faithful.

JaVale is coming along nicely and will soon cement his position as the Wizards' starting center for many years to come in training camp, just around the time a demoralized Hilton Armstrong realizes that his head is little more than a foothold for McGee as he soars for thunderous dunks again and again.

Based on the development of McGee and others recently drafted by the Wizards, saying the words "Ernest Grunfeld" and "failure" in the same sentence should be a felony when uttered within the continental United States!

When will the haters learn?

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 25, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Tyson Chandler had 13 points, but he played 20 minutes. Thats a .59 rating - (points / minutes). McGee had 7 points in only 9 minutes - thats a .77 rating. (Odem and Lopez had a .125 and .153 rating respectively ). Plus it seemed like Chandlers team was looking for him alot more than JaVales team. It is my opinion that JaVale was the best big man out there and the ratings back me up. (even though Chandler did have 4 blocked shots to JaVales 1 block. )

I'm happy that when JaVale will be with the Wiz-kids that there will be a guard or two that will have him in the corner of their eye and will be willing and able to pass him the ball. I see a great team shaping up with Wall, Arenas, Blatche and McGee. I'm just glad that JaVale is getting the extra work with top tier talent, it can only help him get better for a stellar 2010/11 season. Go Wiz-Kids.

Posted by: US-conscience | July 25, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Once again...nobody knows why he wasn't getting played last season. Just how everybody complained about Nick...until it came out that he couldn't remember plays called for him.

JaVale may be given instructions in practice that he can't follow. We don't know schemes, none of that to say that he is following them. (which isn't hard to believe since JaVale STILL can set a basic pick without sprinting to the rim looking for the dunk without even making the pick.)

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 4:51 PM

Basketball 101. Either the coach can't coach it or if he has players that can't learn it then those players can't play.

Put them on the inactive list.

SDMDTSU, if you really believe these players are that dumb and the Wizards are even dumber not to have eliminated that problem immediately, then it is no longer a wonder why we can't win. We got dumb players and Wizards don't know how to fix it.

Think about it SDMDTSU, is that really what you want to say???

LarryInClintonMD.

Yes, Larry. I am sure that's what I want to say. And it's not that cut and dry. Players come to the NBA younger and don't have the fundamentals that they should. Nick Young when would have been in what his 2nd season had he stayed in school? JaVale would be in his rookie season? (I'm guessing off the top of my head) If you can't see that JaVale's weaknesses are the same as they've always been...I don't know what to tell you.

Same with Nick. How is a prototypical 6'6'' SG unable to rebound or pass? Let alone REMEMBER A PLAY CALLED FOR HIM. Does coaching affect memory?

I'm not making this stuff up Larry. It's factual. Reporters wrote it and everything. You know like how they do with contract offers.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

So the Chicago starters look at this point to be Rose at PG, Brewer at SG, Deng at SF, Noah at C, and Boozer at the 4, with Korver, CJ Watson, James Johnson and Taj Gibson off the bench.

I guess I can see why they're talking to Tracy McGrady.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 25, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

This article is poorly written: "He finished with seven points, three rebounds and a blocked shot in just over nine minutes."

That's hellacious production in nine minutes - over a full game that's 35 points, 15 rebounds, and five blocked shots.

Duh.

Posted by: nativedc | July 25, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

I wish the best for JaTravel, but if he makes the team, that would be a sad statement on how desperate they are.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

McGee outperforms Brook Lopez and half the wizards board responds with how poorly he played and inferior he supposedly is to "real competition." Odd way to support the team!

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Brook Lopez had Mono divi...come on man.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Within the right parameters Mcgrady would be a great pickup for the Bulls, who are already much improved coming off a playoff season. But you gotta wonder at age 31 just how much of a backseat TMac will be comfortable taking if he's feeling healthy despite what he may claim at the outset.

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

DC hatin at it's full potential!!! Let the dude play and develop and stop criticizing! Critics are the scum of the earth....

Posted by: Akiraw | July 25, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Brook Lopez had Mono divi...come on man.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 8:11 PM

And? Doesnt that mean they should consider Javale for the team? Or do they go in with only Lopez/Chandler and just hope health isnt a factor?

re:Lopez, I had no idea he was considered such a poor defender and weak rebounder until listening/reading to the stuff about this team. Starting to wonder what all the fuss is about with him.

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

BTW, What's the story with John Wall's knees? He had tendenitis after playing 4 games in 6 days? What's going to happen in the regular season?

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 25, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Brook Lopez had Mono divi...come on man.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 8:11 PM

And? Doesnt that mean they should consider Javale for the team? Or do they go in with only Lopez/Chandler and just hope health isnt a factor?

It means you sound like 78 comparing two factors that aren't equal. Sure you can say McGee "outplayed" him in 9 minutes. Lopez had Mono though...so Lopez wasn't even himself.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

"This article is poorly written: "He finished with seven points, three rebounds and a blocked shot in just over nine minutes."That's hellacious production in nine minutes - over a full game that's 35 points, 15 rebounds, and five blocked shots.
Duh.Posted by: nativedc"

Well, the article said he was dominant -- for two minutes. That's when he collected three baskets and the blocked shot (and probably some of the three boards). The other seven minutes, he was quiet.

That's why you can't extrapolate production to a full game the way you just did. He wasn't on the court long enough.

The real question is: why'd the coaches take him out after just those nine minutes? You'd have had to see the game to answer that one.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 25, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

"BTW, What's the story with John Wall's knees? He had tendenitis after playing 4 games in 6 days? What's going to happen in the regular season?

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 25, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse "

Let the Wiz medical staff figure that out.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Just for fun, here's blogger Mike Tanier on the NBA free agency madness:

"Never underestimate the national sports media's ability to recklessly stoke a campfire, then shake its head solemnly at the charred forest. Or its ability to report with breathless shock that 25-year-old multi-millionaires aren't the most sagacious career planners or selfless human beings. The fascinating irony of three superstars huddling together to create the world's most instantly hate-able sports franchise, each trying to protect his "legacy" by winning a championship can only be trumped by the insane dollar figures at stake. From what I understand of the NBA salary cap (not much), the Heat's 12th man will have to play for pick 'n' peel shrimp. The only missing piece to the Miami Heat puzzle is Albert Haynesworth, who doesn't like the kind of defense they run. As for King James' decision and his one-man selection show, I would do the same if I had his combination of talent, youth, and money. Let the grey-bearded sportswriters debate my legacy, my loyalty, my responsibility to the fans blah, blah, blah ... I am going to have mojitos on the beach with Ke$ha. A week later, LeBron was booed at Carmelo Anthony's wedding and getting the effigy treatment in Cleveland. All of this is considered charming and appropriate, because none of it happened in Philadelphia."

Posted by: Samson151 | July 25, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

I'm not making this stuff up Larry. It's factual. Reporters wrote it and everything. You know like how they do with contract offers.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 7:05 PM

If this stuff is factual my good man, again, is it any wonder why our Wizards perform so badly.

Remembering a play is something you learn in junior high. Knowing how to set and roll is junior high. To accept this lack of court knowledge and execution at the professional level is unacceptable.

And if this is truly the case with our Wizard players and the Wizard organization, Ted Leonsis, Flip Saunders, John Wall, Gilbert Arenas and yes Shaun Livingston want be bringing any championships here.

Whatever mode of transportation Nick Young rode in on without the IQ to remember a play or for Javale McGee not to know how to hesitate one extra second to make a pick and roll successful, that same mode of transportation should be used to ship them outahere.

You say it not that simple. Think again. It would be just that simple. For if it isn't, there is more going on than just a dumb arse player.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 25, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

It means you sound like 78 comparing two factors that aren't equal. Sure you can say McGee "outplayed" him in 9 minutes. Lopez had Mono though...so Lopez wasn't even himself.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 8:26 PM

The tryouts are supposed to be about this past week and the scrimmage according to the coaches. Did you watch the game? Mcgee didnt play poorly, he just stopped getting touches. Same thing was happening to Lopez. At the end of the day, last night Mcgee contributed more than either Lopez or Odom while playing the least minutes. He also didnt commit any fouls, despite the constant talk on here about how he goes for every single fake.

To me it shows he's out there competing daily with this team and is currently running against some pretty good talent. All positives from a Wizards fan's perspective I would think. But the same folks who downgraded every dominant performance in Summer League now feel the need to write-off any positive signs the kid may be improving. That's fine, I just see it differently. This is great developmental experience for one of our players, and to me it looks like at the very least he's out there holding his own.

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

BTW, What's the story with John Wall's knees? He had tendenitis after playing 4 games in 6 days? What's going to happen in the regular season?

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 25, 2010 8:24 PM

Looks like a Shaun Livingston as backup wasn't so farfetched after all. Huh!

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 25, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I wish for the best for McGee, but I don't care that much for Team USA. Maybe I need a booster shot of patriotism. What did Gilbert Arenas or the Wizards get out of Arenas' participation on Team USA? A knee injury as I recall.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | July 25, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

If this stuff is factual my good man, again, is it any wonder why our Wizards perform so badly.

Remembering a play is something you learn in junior high. Knowing how to set and roll is junior high. To accept this lack of court knowledge and execution at the professional level is unacceptable.

And if this is truly the case with our Wizard players and the Wizard organization, Ted Leonsis, Flip Saunders, John Wall, Gilbert Arenas and yes Shaun Livingston want be bringing any championships here.

Whatever mode of transportation Nick Young rode in on without the IQ to remember a play or for Javale McGee not to know how to hesitate one extra second to make a pick and roll successful, that same mode of transportation should be used to ship them outahere.

You say it not that simple. Think again. It would be just that simple. For if it isn't, there is more going on than just a dumb arse player.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 25, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Larry...I will go back and find the article if it's so hard for you to grasp. Last season, in a game in Miami. Nick was pulled and Flip was very frustrated. The board was pissed off like why isn't Nick playing. It came out later that in that game, Nick forgot a play...that was called for him. Hell, HE CAN'T EVEN FIGHT THROUGH A SCREEN. He just reaches around it like "I got picked off...I'm out of the play." Summer league he was STILL doing it. He's been trying to learn since Ivan Carter ran the blog.

And McGee...look at the John Wall highlights video. It's an example in there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAk7D8nFcsE

He ALWAYS does that. He disregards the screen to run for the lob.

The bolded statement...goes back to when you said that's it's a coaches responsibilty...when you and Kalo got into it about them not getting fundamentals. But you said they shouldn't accept that lack of knowledge or IQ...can't have it both ways. You step up to the big leagues..be ready to play. It's not the time to spoon feed them.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

The bulls are for real.They are so deep,they are defense oriented team,before this improvment they were one of the top 5 teams in rebounding.If Deng play 70 games and boozer contribute to their defensive aspect,it will be hard to bit them.It is my opinion to rate them as the top 3 eastern confrence team,with an up side in play off.They will be one of the best playoff team in NBA,I personaly put only Boston and LA lakers as a better playoff team,in the presence of the unknown miami and the non improved orland,chicago is the 3rd best in NBA in playoff performance.
Adding TMc is a wrong decision,he keep ball in his hand,retard ball movment,will get injured,if is is just for insurance purpose it might be a good idea,they need to relay to their young bench,Gibson is so good as a bench PF,They have an excellent swing man,they need to get a SG that can come from bench and give them scoring, it is not TMC.
By the way even if JM give priority to run for a dunk,he can be back so quickly to form the screen,it is up to the coaching staff to teach him.They need to teach him to get back to get a screen if he did not get the ball,i do not know why this is complex.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 25, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

I think SDMDTSU and LarryInClintonMD should both have their homes blacked out for all wizards games.

Your both more pessimistic than my ex-wife.

Posted by: US-conscience | July 25, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

McGee over either Lopez any day.

Posted by: Theone9 | July 25, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

It's early, but here are the top draft candidates for 2011:

Harrison Barnes, SF, UNC
Perry Jones, PF, Baylor
Jan Vesely, PF, Czech
Jared Sullinger, PF, Ohio State
Enes Kanter, PF, UK
Donatas Motiejunas, PF, Lith
Kyrie Irving, PG, Duke
Mason Plumlee, PF, Duke
Kyle Singler, SF, Duke

Brandon Knight, PG, UK
Trey Thompkins, PF, Georgia

Seems a little overbalanced at one position, huh?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 25, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

The 2008 team had only 3 bigs; Howard, Bosh and Boozer. And I don't think Boozer played that much, because Carmelo played the 4. My guess is that Chandler, Lopez, Odom and Love have the best chances of making the team, but McGee could become an alternate and travel with the team. That would be pretty cool.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 25, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

He ALWAYS does that. He disregards the screen to run for the lob.

The bolded statement...goes back to when you said that's it's a coaches responsibilty...when you and Kalo got into it about them not getting fundamentals. But you said they shouldn't accept that lack of knowledge or IQ...can't have it both ways. You step up to the big leagues..be ready to play. It's not the time to spoon feed them.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 9:04 PM

Okay. I think you are really making a case as far as the intelligence of these players, but certainly Livingston didn't have that problem.

This reminds me of when McGee was playing the 3rd quarter and layups were going by him to the basket last night. The players for the white team were shaking their man so fast that as soon as McGee would set with his man he had to release a second to late to stop the drive to the basket.

That is something he would have to had to learn on his own and cheat to protect the hoop.

I saw that being both a fault with McGee and also something the defense could have recognized. They didn't and the white team killed them in driving to the hoop in the 3rd Q.

So now, is this a lack of intelligence on McGee's part just as he releases a 2nd to quick to go for the lob, or is it something that is coachable, simply, or something he has to learn himself overtime.

Now in Young's case, is it really he doesn't and can't remembert plays, or is it really somethingelse?

Let's hope my friend that it is really somethingelse, for I know that Red Aurerbach would not keep a dumb player on his team and I pray that the Wizards isn't keeping dumb players on this team.

If Nick Young truly lacks the intellect to remember a play, there is no way in hell as a GM he would still be on my team.

Especially, after a 6'7" point guard whom has extreme intellect for the game wasn't even offered a contract.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 25, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I questioned Javale's maturity and dedication to be a great bb player but what nobody spoke on what i thoght was very important and a good sign he's starting to get it!is. when asked about getting a place in vegas because he has spent so much time there the last two year's he responded with it's to much going on out here for me. this is a boy who is finally becoming a man and a professional.

Posted by: dakel76 | July 25, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I think Vesely is more of a SF.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 25, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse


mcgee's biggest problem is that at this stage of his development he's way more concerned with scoring than doing the little things that often add up to winning (properly setting screens, securing the rebound before sprinting to the other end of the court, a taking half a beat to look for the open man/cutters when he receives the ball on the block, etc.). when he gets the ball down low, he almost never looks to pass it back out. the shot is going up, come hell or high water. it's almost like he feels he'll NEVER touch the ball again on offense. at any rate, if he has to come off the bench again this season because he can't do basic, fundamental things required of a starting center, just consider it another stage of his development. he definitely shouldn't be getting any DNP-CDs though. i don't think there's any excuse for that nonsense.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 25, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

mcgee's biggest problem is that at this stage of his development he's way more concerned with scoring than doing the little things that often add up to winning (properly setting screens, securing the rebound before sprinting to the other end of the court, a taking half a beat to look for the open man/cutters when he receives the ball on the block, etc.). when he gets the ball down low, he almost never looks to pass it back out. the shot is going up, come hell or high water. it's almost like he feels he'll NEVER touch the ball again on offense. at any rate, if he has to come off the bench again this season because he can't do basic, fundamental things required of a starting center, just consider it another stage of his development. he definitely shouldn't be getting any DNP-CDs though. i don't think there's any excuse for that nonsense.

Exactly. It's constantly chasing the big play...when sometimes the best play doesn't even get noticed. I think the issue is that it's McGee's 3rd season and he's doing the SAME things. It's not intelligence. It's FOCUS. Focus on the pick...then roll to the basket...not chasig the highlight dunk.

No clue what your defensive example had to do with anything...but that's about right for you.

Point blank. Nick couldn't remember the play called for him. Period. There is no something else, this is professional basketball.

I'm starting to think Larry is Livingston. Nobody cares. He's gone. Is the guard position better WITHOUT him? Yes.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

@rphilli:

So here's what I said the next morning after that Pacers loss:

"worst of all, javale probably could have thrown down the winning dunk on the whole pacers team had the alley-oop been thrown- they didnt put a body on him.

Flip was pissed at him for trying the putback instead, guess javale will be benched for a month now

Posted by: divi3 | December 13, 2009 11:06 AM"

Lo and behold, Javale was DNP-CD 14 of the next 17 games. Not bad for "couch potato ranting" huh? Maybe you should pay attention to what I'm preachin...you might learn something!

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

@melodious_thunk,

Lol!

Judging by the posts on this board, the haters will never learn. JaVale McGee is ready for a breakout season and it seems like nobody is paying attention. They're focusing on what he can't do and minimizing what he can do. Only Wizards fans can look at a 7-ft, 22 year old athletic freak of a center and basically see a bum.

To the haters: when JaVale wins most improved player of the year what will you say then??

Posted by: roscoepcalhounbrownjriii | July 25, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

"I think Vesely is more of a SF.Posted by: djnnnou"

Could be. Although they list him at 6'11", 230.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Here's what nobody is talking about re: McGee: the Wizards have NO other legit options at 5. None. Not one. Is JaVale going to play 48 minutes (before I get slammed for that, it was facetious)??! What if he gets hurt? Please don't say Hilton Armstrong. He was signed for the six fouls he can give and is a backup to the backup at 4. We have one legit 5, and some here debate that fact. In Vegas EG said the team needs "another 5 and a wing player (presumably a 3). Well? What are they waiting for? Josh Howard hopefully at 3. But at 5?

Posted by: psdfx | July 26, 2010 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Yes, what's up with this board of so called Wizards fans???

Javale's development is positive and in my opinion ahead of schedule. He's 21 years old and still learning the game, we want these players to be all-stars day 1, give them a chance to get better.

Maybe we are so used to getting other teams over-the-hill vets that we don't know how to be patient and let our own players develope.

The kid is going to be a stud and he is a Wizard, stop b!tching about what he can't do and be pleased at his progress to this point.

It's ok to discuss and debate his shortcomings at this stage of his career but there are to many negative observers here who only see doom at the end of the rainbow and not the pot of gold.

Javale McGee my friends, is a "Pot of Gold!"

Posted by: zxhoya | July 26, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Yes, what's up with this board of so called Wizards fans???

Javale's development is positive and in my opinion ahead of schedule. He's 21 years old and still learning the game, we want these players to be all-stars day 1, give them a chance to get better.

Maybe we are so used to getting other teams over-the-hill vets that we don't know how to be patient and let our own players develope.

The kid going to be a stud and he is a Wizard, stop b!tching about what he can't do and be pleased at his progress to this point.

It's ok to discuss and debate his shortcomings at this stage of his career but there are to many negative observers here who only see doom at the end of the rainbow and not the of gold.

Javale McGee my friends, is a "Pot of Gold!"

Posted by: zxhoya | July 26, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

I think SDMDTSU and LarryInClintonMD should both have their homes blacked out for all wizards games.

Your both more pessimistic than my ex-wife.

Posted by: US-conscience | July 25, 2010 9:40 PM |

Actually, if you are really checking my post you would realize that I am against the constant detracting against the players. I am actually carrying their water against those whom would rather always point out perceived weaknesses.

Like, just in the last blog when DC_MAN88 tried to say the McGee had not post moves, no jump shot, no defense, yadayadayada.

After refuting him, I asked him one question. Why would Mike Krsyzinski pick a Center that did not have any post moves?

His response was, duh, didn't have one, tried to blow my response off like it was an english test or something.

On the contrary US-conscience, I am not a pessimist about this team atall, I just like shining a light on folks that are.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 26, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

And I hope you can clearly tell that my comment about shipping Young and McGee outahere for for lack of basketball IQ was clearly sarcastic as a response to the notion that they lack basic BBall intelligence.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 26, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

And to the fellow above that would discount extrapolation because McGee did everything in first 2 minutes of his 9 minutes played, what is up with that?

So your theory is his next 9 minutes played he wouldn't do the same, or less? Why wouldn't he do more?

It would appear to me that someone that could do something in two minutes would have a much easier chance of repeating it than someone who takes much longer to do it.

If you ever see McGee, Holla At Him, cause he is truly A Play.

Samson151, I shouldn't say that to you but you shant be taking props away from Javale.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 26, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm as much a Wiz fan as anyone, but also try to look at things objectively. If the stories are true about NY not knowing the playbook deep into his second season, I'm not sure we want this guy on the team. These guys make a ton of $ and not knowing the plays is inexcusable. It's the NBA, not some Rec. league.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse


I doubt there are many who listen to Nick speak and come away with the impression that he is a sharp guy. Let's just say it wouldn't be a shocker if he forgot a play 10 seconds after it was specifically drawn up FOR HIM. Nick was a Grunfeld mistake.

Posted by: artiesliver | July 26, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

How come the stories of Nick forgetting a play must be true, but the stories of Flip being called out by Rasheed must be false? I'm not saying Nick didnt forget a play, it wouldnt suprise me at all, but it also looks like Flip allows vets to run roughshod over him.

So it's always AB, NY, JM who are getting called out and benched, while AJ, Caron, Gil, Mike Miller, BTH, etc played with complete impunity no matter what the results.

Lousy setup.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

"And to the fellow above that would discount extrapolation because McGee did everything in first 2 minutes of his 9 minutes played, what is up with that?
So your theory is his next 9 minutes played he wouldn't do the same, or less? Why wouldn't he do more?It would appear to me that someone that could do something in two minutes would have a much easier chance of repeating it than someone who takes much longer to do it.posted by LarryInClintonMD"

There's a common error called 'the statistics of small numbers'. In short, it's drawing conclusions based on a sample of insufficient size. In sports, it tends to favor players who appeared in fewer games or who played fewer minutes. That's why stats boards tend to compare players after imposing a threshold value such as number of games played, minutes per game, shots taken, ad infinitum.

In basketball, it's easy to see that players who play short stretches tend to have higher percentages than those who log many more minutes over more games. A guy who takes two FTs in a game and makes both will have a much higher FT percentage than someone who takes 15 and makes 10. If you apply that percentage over the course of a season, it will appear that player X is a far better FT shooter than player Y, when in fact the opposite may be true.

Likewise, if you make the assumption that someone who scores four points in four minutes will go on to score a total of 48 points in the game, you'd almost always be wrong. It's much easier to score 4 points than 48, as any player will tell you.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

How come the stories of Nick forgetting a play must be true, but the stories of Flip being called out by Rasheed must be false? I'm not saying Nick didnt forget a play, it wouldnt suprise me at all, but it also looks like Flip allows vets to run roughshod over him.

So it's always AB, NY, JM who are getting called out and benched, while AJ, Caron, Gil, Mike Miller, BTH, etc played with complete impunity no matter what the results.

Lousy setup.
Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I'm not enamored w/ Flip either. He's one of those coaches, sort of like Norv Turner or Wade Phillips in the NFL, who always seem to get jobs, regardless of how their teams perform.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

There's a common error called 'the statistics of small numbers'. In short, it's drawing conclusions based on a sample of insufficient size. In sports, it tends to favor players who appeared in fewer games or who played fewer minutes. That's why stats boards tend to compare players after imposing a threshold value such as number of games played, minutes per game, shots taken, ad infinitum.


Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Dam*. I was hoping that 5 years from now, JaVale McGee would be 7' 6" based upon this year's growth.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

On the other hand, if you take the points scored by a player who averages 30 minutes, it's much easier to predict accurately what he might score in say, 36 minutes.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Anybody watch the scrimmage?? All the Cs were kind of frozen out, Chandler was spoonfed dunks and went 6-6 to apparently solidify his role as the main guy. We all know Mcgee can pretty much go 6-6 on dunks at the drop of hat, and that if he had instead of Chandler- he'd be called out here for just being a dunker with no post moves.

At the end of the day, the upside here is he's getting coached from some of the very best while playing with some of the league's best talent. It will translate (at least a little I think) to the reg season.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I'm not enamored w/ Flip either. He's one of those coaches, sort of like Norv Turner or Wade Phillips in the NFL, who always seem to get jobs, regardless of how their teams perform.

I don't think that applies...Flip is one of the winningest coaches in basketball. Not really a good analogy... =\

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

the Norv-Flip comparison is right on the money imo

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

i meant they have the same player-friendly style that only works if you have great leaders to run the team for you

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2009/11/miller-and-butler-hurting-youn.html?wprss=wizardsinsider

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2009/10/young-lost-in-the-shuffle.html

There you go Larry. Nick Young...a third year veteran can't remember the basics. JaVale is a great athlete without the fundamentals. It is what it is...do I want them to improve? Sure...but expecting 20/10 from him is setting him up to fail.

Reporters don't lie Larry...remember?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

That might be true...I don't think anybody has ever mistaken Flip for a disciplinarian.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

"And to the fellow above that would discount extrapolation because McGee did everything in first 2 minutes of his 9 minutes played, what is up with that? So your theory is his next 9 minutes played he wouldn't do the same, or less? Why wouldn't he do more?It would appear to me that someone that could do something in two minutes would have a much easier chance of repeating it than someone who takes much longer to do it."

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

You do realize that's not even close to how things actually work, right?

Likewise, if you make the assumption that someone who scores four points in four minutes will go on to score a total of 48 points in the game, you'd almost always be wrong. It's much easier to score 4 points than 48, as any player will tell you.

Posted by: Samson151

And beyond that simple blast of common sense, there's also precedent. Expecting McGee's rate of production to remain constant or increase exponentially over extended minutes ignores a couple of very basic facts about the guy. Namely that he is plagued by the two things that are pretty much the death knell of of an upward arc of production over extended minutes: foul trouble and fatigue/conditioning problems.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Well, Flip's career win percentage is 59.4% over a little less than a thousand games. So who are the current comparables? In the NBA, the more you win, the more games you coach/ the more often you get hired, so this is a pretty illustrious sample (left out Phil Jackson because his record is too remarkable):

Larry Brown: 55.2%
Don Nelson: 55.7%
Byron Scott: 49.8%
Pat Riley (coaching again?): 63.6%
Doc Rivers: (only 451 games) 54.3%
Mike Dunleavy: 46.1%
Scott Skiles (only 361 games) 51.9%
Stan Van Gundy (only 282 games) 65.4%
Rick Adelman: 60.9%

Overall it looks like Flip Saunders is one of the more successful coaches currently in the NBA and probably we're lucky to have him in Washington. Not that I expect anyone to be convinced by that argument --

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Anybody watch the scrimmage?? All the Cs were kind of frozen out, Chandler was spoonfed dunks and went 6-6 to apparently solidify his role as the main guy. We all know Mcgee can pretty much go 6-6 on dunks at the drop of hat, and that if he had instead of Chandler- he'd be called out here for just being a dunker with no post moves."
Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 9:50 AM

And it would have been true, just like it is (and always has been) true of Chandler. If Chandler makes the team, it won't be because of his offensive production.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Larry Brown: 55.2%
Don Nelson: 55.7%
Byron Scott: 49.8%
Pat Riley (coaching again?): 63.6%
Doc Rivers: (only 451 games) 54.3%
Mike Dunleavy: 46.1%
Scott Skiles (only 361 games) 51.9%
Stan Van Gundy (only 282 games) 65.4%
Rick Adelman: 60.9%

Overall it looks like Flip Saunders is one of the more successful coaches currently in the NBA and probably we're lucky to have him in Washington. Not that I expect anyone to be convinced by that argument --

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

how many of those coaches have won a championship, because we all know that your career in the NBA means nothing if you don't win a championship.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

And it would have been true, just like it is (and always has been) true of Chandler. If Chandler makes the team, it won't be because of his offensive production.

Posted by: kalo_rama

kalo

That is true and this post is not to dis-credit you.

Yes, they both don't have post moves, but to be fair, McGee does have more ability to score than Chandler by a significant amount. Chandler is pretty much "self-checked" and has to get the ball in a spot where he can dunk, where McGee can make a move and finish(dunk/layup), though it not be a post move.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 26, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Why would Mike Krsyzinski pick a Center that did not have any post moves?

A) if you're going to spend a couple of posts lauding Coach K, at least spell his name right.

B) Here is what Mike *Krzyzewski* actually said about McGee

"Mike Krzyzewski, the coach of the U.S. team, did not want to evaluate individual players this early on, but said this week that McGee has "done a good job."

"He's a shot-blocker. He protects the basket really well and he's seven feet tall," the Duke men's basketball coach said. "He brings more height, jumping ability and shot-blocking."

Since I didn't read the words "post-moves" anywhere in that sentence, but he referenced shot-blocking 2 (2 and a half) times, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, yes, they would bring in a player who has no post-moves if he brings other things they need to the table. They brought in two of them actually. Chandler still doesn't really have any go-to post moves. I did see one swoopy left handed hook-like shot that went in off the glass and he did try one fade-away jumper with decent footwork, but from about 15 feet. So he's trying.

That's not picking on McGee or saying he doesn't belong on the USA team, it just is what it is.

Just like the fact that they played him less than they played any other player is what it is. It might mean they saw what they needed to see. Gerald Wallace only played 12 mins, but I have a feeling he'll be on the final roster. It might mean that after his fast start they didn't like what they saw, who knows? We'll find out soon when they start making cuts.

The nice part is that he has shown well enough in camp that whether he makes this roster or not, they'll likely keep inviting him back. However big it might have a tendency to make his head, being around guys like Billups, Jason Kidd, Coach K, etc, can only help him. Kalo referenced that convo McGee had with Billups. Personally I can't say for sure it was about that pick, but he was obviously getting into him about something. Hopefully McGee was listening.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"Yes, they both don't have post moves, but to be fair, McGee does have more ability to score than Chandler by a significant amount."

No, he really doesn't.

"Chandler is pretty much "self-checked" and has to get the ball in a spot where he can dunk, where McGee can make a move and finish(dunk/layup), though it not be a post move."

Most of McGee's "moves" end up with him clanking the ball off the side of the rim, dribbling the ball off his foot, or committing an offensive foul. The only real difference between McGee and Chandler is that Chandler is better at playing within his limitations.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

" I did see one swoopy left handed hook-like shot that went in off the glass and he did try one fade-away jumper with decent footwork, but from about 15 feet. So he's trying."

Sorry, I meant McGee tried these shots.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

There you go Larry. Nick Young...a third year veteran can't remember the basics. JaVale is a great athlete without the fundamentals. It is what it is...do I want them to improve? Sure...but expecting 20/10 from him is setting him up to fail.

Reporters don't lie Larry...remember?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 10:05 AM |

But to Larry's point, then why is he still on the team? And dont you think he seemed even more unfocused when he was the 19yr old kid that EG interviewed before drafting him? Are we to believe that all these guys would be at the exact same stage of development had Larry Brown or Jerry Sloan or Doc Rivers been coaching them?

Just saying, clearly we've had many players with failings over the years...but I also cant think of ANY player who made significant developmental strides with this organization since....

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Kalo

Yes, Chandler plays within his limitations better, but McGee is not as limited as Chandler. He does have the ability to make a jumper from the free throw line, Chandler has no confidence in anything but a dunk. Or is it your opinion that McGee has no ability outside of dunking the ball?

I do think he has low basketball I.Q. and his next assist will be his first but...he has more ability to score outside of receiving an oop, compared to Chandler.

Chandler has proven(to date) smarter, a better rebounder and defender though.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 26, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"how many of those coaches have won a championship, because we all know that your career in the NBA means nothing if you don't win a championship.Posted by: lilhollywood10"

Very few of them -- Riley, Larry Brown, and Doc Rivers -- have won championships. Then again, over the past 30 seasons, the NBA title has been split among only 8 teams. Used to be more variety. In the ten seasons before that, the title went to 8 different clubs.

So much for parity, huh?

That's why you can't judge a coach solely on the basis of rings.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Coach K isn't used to having strong play at center, anyway. Particularly on offense. He has Mason Plumlee at C next season, and that should be his best center in years. Zoubek played very well at the end of last season, but mostly his career was on the injured list.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"Yes, Chandler plays within his limitations better, but McGee is not as limited as Chandler. He does have the ability to make a jumper from the free throw line, Chandler has no confidence in anything but a dunk. Or is it your opinion that McGee has no ability outside of dunking the ball?"

He has a lot of physical ability, but that doesn't count for much if you don't know how to use it effectively, which he doesn't. His only really effective offensive move right now is a lob dunk. Everything else is a crapshoot.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

They're also showing the TeamUSA practices from last week on NBAtv, Mcgee is clearly the young guy who doesnt say much and just does as he's told- which is a good thing of course. I do think they knew he wouldnt make the roster without an outstanding showing beforehand, CoachK has gone to great lengths to laud Chandler for coming back even after not making the team. And goes on during practice about how they are a family who will stick together for years etc etc. I think JM will have to play more than 15mins/night for a season before he earns his way on to the team.

That said, he's probably every bit as good as Chandler right now.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Can we stop with all of the Flip vs McGee/Young DNP nonsense?

Why does it have to be either all Flip's fault or all McGee's/Young's fault?

Flip came in expecting to be coaching a veteran team trying to make noise in the playoffs. So he was trying to install his offensive and defensive sets with an eye towards veterans and the post-season. I'm sure part of the DNPs were for guys not knowing his sets, not giving appropriate effort either in practice or in games, etc.

On the other hand, that veteran team never materialized and Flip was way too slow to adjust either his tactics or rotations or whatever accordingly.

So some of it is definitely on McGee and Young (and Blatche) and some is definitely on Flip. Hopefully all parties recognize their roles in last season's debacle and have prepared better for this season.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

And what do you know Chandler's confidence? Isn't it just as likely that the reason he's not taking jumpers and off the dribble running one-handers is because he knows he's not a scorer and rather than try to make highlight plays outside of his skill set he focuses on maximizing the things he does well?

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"Just saying, clearly we've had many players with failings over the years...but I also cant think of ANY player who made significant developmental strides with this organization since...."

Depends on what you mean by "developmental strides." If you're just talking about players getting better over the course of consecutive seasons, there have been a number of those: Howard, Webber, Whitney, Muresan, Googs, Hamilton, Mason, Blatche. If you're talking about a player going from nothing to something, a guy who clearly didn't get it finally getting it . . . well, that usually has more to do with the player than the organization. You can't teach someone who isn't willing to learn, and Young hasn't shown much inclination.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

That said, he's probably every bit as good as Chandler right now.

Posted by: divi3

Yes and no. Chandler has obviously been robbed of some of his ability by injuries. But he's a lot more experienced and has an overall better knowledge of the game and his role. I know you like to downplay guys with defensive knowledge versus raw athleticism, but understanding defensive concepts goes a long way. For now Chandler still has that edge.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Just saying, clearly we've had many players with failings over the years...but I also cant think of ANY player who made significant developmental strides with this organization since....

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 12:18 PM

That's all I've been trying to say for a long time. Who are the success development stories to hang your hat on. All we do is get mad at player-X

Just saying, management shouldn't be exempt from the eqausion.

Posted by: millineumman | July 26, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

This is Nick Young's contract year and he's fully aware of that. If we still hear Flip talking about Nick not knowing what he's supposed to do on the court this year, we can rule out lack of effort as the reason.

Posted by: artiesliver | July 26, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Why is everyone dancing around the issue?
Nick's as dumb as a bag of hammers! Did the Wizards even interview this kid prior to drafting him?

Posted by: harrybalz | July 26, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

It'd be interesting to see Larry Brown's teams' winning percentage improvement from the season before he arrived through his first season as coach. He's stepped into some garbage situations.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Depends on what you mean by "developmental strides." If you're just talking about players getting better over the course of consecutive seasons, there have been a number of those: Howard, Webber, Whitney, Muresan, Googs, Hamilton, Mason, Blatche. If you're talking about a player going from nothing to something, a guy who clearly didn't get it finally getting it . . . well, that usually has more to do with the player than the organization. You can't teach someone who isn't willing to learn, and Young hasn't shown much inclination.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 12:34 PM

There are what, 2 players on that list over the last 8yrs or so? And given as much as so many people rip AB for being uncoachable, unmotivated, and unfocused...not sure you can turn around and credit the organization for developing him. He may just be doing what he does.

Mcgee alone has had what, 3 coaches in 3yrs including an "interim" guy for almost a whole season. How many players across the league made great strides under those circumstances?

Hopefully it's a new era tho

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

" And given as much as so many people rip AB for being uncoachable, unmotivated, and unfocused...not sure you can turn around and credit the organization for developing him. He may just be doing what he does."

Yeah, but that same argument holds true for most any player. It's like being President: if the economy improves on your watch you get credit for it, if it bottoms out, you get blame for it. It doesn't matter how much or how little you actually had to do with it.

"Mcgee alone has had what, 3 coaches in 3yrs including an "interim" guy for almost a whole season. How many players across the league made great strides under those circumstances?"

Learning not to bite on pump fakes by 7 foot Cs 20 feet from the basket is hardly a "great stride" and he STILL hasn't figured that out yet.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

You can't blame not knowing the plays on the coach. If NY played on a team w/ Michael or Magic or Larry or Isaiah and he didn't know the plays, costing them a game that meant something, any of them would've been in the coach's/GM's office 15 minutes after the game telling them to dump the kid.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

And what do you know Chandler's confidence? Isn't it just as likely that the reason he's not taking jumpers and off the dribble running one-handers is because he knows he's not a scorer and rather than try to make highlight plays outside of his skill set he focuses on maximizing the things he does well?

Posted by: kalo_rama

Because he is confident he won't make it. That is not meant to be a negative, because he should not shoot outside of his limited range, even if he is WIDE OPEN.

But that doesn't mean that McGee shouldn't take an open jumper from near the free throw line. McGee has shown that he has that range. He should shoot it. He should be CONFIDENT in his shot. Lots of centers shoot that shot. Chandler ain't one of them, so he is not confident in his shooting. That is clear.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 26, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I'll ask it again since nobody responded to my earlier post: What do you all think this team is going to do about backup center?

Posted by: psdfx | July 26, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

But to Larry's point, then why is he still on the team? And dont you think he seemed even more unfocused when he was the 19yr old kid that EG interviewed before drafting him? Are we to believe that all these guys would be at the exact same stage of development had Larry Brown or Jerry Sloan or Doc Rivers been coaching them?

Just saying, clearly we've had many players with failings over the years...but I also cant think of ANY player who made significant developmental strides with this organization since....

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

And I hope you can clearly tell that my comment about shipping Young and McGee outahere for for lack of basketball IQ was clearly sarcastic as a response to the notion that they lack basic BBall intelligence.

LarryInClintonMD.

I don't think that was Larry's point at all...(if there ever is one.) Clearly he thinks they aren't lacking in the IQ department.

Nick at 19...the mistakes he makes are more tolerable. Kids come out and are very rarely ready. Nick is now 25. Hell he had to be 20-21 when we came out then. If he can't grasp how to fight through a screen after 3 years (that's not a coaching thing...it's an effort thing.) Why are people (you) still clamoring for him to start? 6'6" long arms...and you can't get steals or rebounds? Come on man. I'd like to say Arenas definitely developed here. Just adding to Kal. Maybe even Blatche. Just for the record.

And I don't know where they would be in another system. Differnt system, different results. I just know the limitations they display.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

And given as much as so many people rip AB for being uncoachable, unmotivated, and unfocused...not sure you can turn around and credit the organization for developing him. He may just be doing what he does.

Or it could also be that when AB finally was willing (after his Mom chewed him out) to listen to coaching, his game was able to emerge. AB has always had skills, but he was also prone to doing really silly things on the court. Unnecessary, behind the back dribbles, errant no-look passes, etc. Coaching isn't just about teaching skills and plays, it's about teaching when and how to use those skills.

We'll never know from the outside how much is just the player and how much is that coaches, but I think it's unfair for both to argue that it's just all one or the other.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I'll ask it again since nobody responded to my earlier post: What do you all think this team is going to do about backup center?

Posted by: psdfx | July 26, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

We're too busy arguing about the starting center to get to the backup.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

"Why are people (you) still clamoring for him to start? 6'6" long arms...and you can't get steals or rebounds?"

Because I think the SG should be a guy who can lock down on super-athletic perimeter players while also being able to score pretty easily. Grit, determination ,blah, blah, blah dont really mean anything if you are averaging 10pts and your opponent is scoring 23 (hinrich vs pierce in that series). Or if you score 30 and your opponent scores 26 (gil vs anyone).

I agree with you 100%, it borders on bizarre that Young doesnt get more rebounds or assists (really he doesnt get any). But imo, if he plays tough perimeter D and scores we're good to go at 2 and those other stats will look a bit more respectable with 30mins floortime instead of 19

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Wizards Press Conference Introducing Kirk Hinrich

10 minute recap. Most of the questions suck(thank you, Chris Miller), but Hinrich does a good job working with what he's given.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 26, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Why are people (you) still clamoring for him to start?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

because he plays well in most of his starts, and plays even better when he gets over 25 mins per game. whatever the reasoning is , chicken before egg, he plays well cuz he gets the mins vs he gets the mins because he's playing well, he's a good second scorer for your team.His defense is getting better too. I've still got hope for NY. it's his last year on the books so i expect him to play harder than we've seen him play before. he doesn't have to worry about MM getting all the SG mins anymore, lmao.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse


for what it's worth, at his wizards presser, hinrich said he feels more comfortable playing point guard (but he's willing to let the process play itself out).

http://www.nba.com/wizards/multimedia/presser_100726.html

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 26, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

he doesn't have to worry about MM getting all the SG mins anymore, lmao.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 1:24 PM

Flip will pull his own teeth out before playing Hinrich less than 30mins/night, for Young to get serious PT he'll have to get through Thornton and Yi

or Gil will have to be traded

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I think when Nick said that Flip wanted him to try playing a different way but he was going to go back to what he wanted....in the pre-season....should've told you all you needed to know.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I think when Nick said that Flip wanted him to try playing a different way but he was going to go back to what he wanted....in the pre-season....should've told you all you needed to know.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 1:43 PM


Yeah, that was a profoundly telling portrait of a guy who didn't get it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that was a profoundly telling portrait of a guy who didn't get it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 1:49 PM

How about when Flip said AJ should take less 3s, and AJ responded by taking 7 that night and saying he'd play the way he wanted? Was that profoundly telling?

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

"The nice part is that he has shown well enough in camp that whether he makes this roster or not, they'll likely keep inviting him back."

I think they know exactly what he is and that's what he showed.

It's what all of us on here have said for the last year, so I don't read anything into this.

Maybe it will motivate him to play as hard as he can during the time he plays. That can only benefit the Wiz as far as I am concerned.

I still think they need to get a big man to work with him. The guards all have Cassell. Who does McGee and Blatche have?

McGee's mom?

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 26, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

How about when Flip said AJ should take less 3s, and AJ responded by taking 7 that night and saying he'd play the way he wanted? Was that profoundly telling?

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 1:52 PM


that was pretty telling. in fact, i think the first shot jamison took that game was a three early in the shot-clock!

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 26, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"Because he is confident he won't make it. That is not meant to be a negative, because he should not shoot outside of his limited range, even if he is WIDE OPEN.

But that doesn't mean that McGee shouldn't take an open jumper from near the free throw line. McGee has shown that he has that range. He should shoot it. He should be CONFIDENT in his shot. Lots of centers shoot that shot. Chandler ain't one of them, so he is not confident in his shooting. That is clear."

Nice bit of negative spin there. You say "confident he won't make it." I say "understands his limitations and plays within them." (Bearing in mind that I think Chandler is, by and large, a big disappointment of a player).

To look at it from another perspective . . .

A couple of years ago there was a guy here who would go on constantly about what a great weapon Pecherov was, because his willingness to shoot the 3 pt shot forced defenses to pay attention to him and spaced the floor. Of course, when it was pointed out that he was shooting 29% from the 3 pt line, a number that had opposing coaches all but begging him to put it up more as opposed to getting the ball to Jamison or Butler, that had no bearing on this guy's enthusiasm for "got buckets."

Point being, confidence is fine, but believing you can do something doesn't actually mean you can do it. I don't care how much "confidence" McGee has in his jumpshot or his running jumphook. It's a bad shot that, at this point in his career, he has no business taking unless he absolutely has to (i.e., click running down). The fact that he doesn't seem to understand that just speaks to his low bball IQ. I'd rather have a guy who's confident in what he can do and accepts what he can't than a guy who can't tell the difference.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I think that if McGee is open from 12 ft, he should take the jumper, he can make it. He should take it IF OPEN. I do think he may take it when he is not WIDE open.

I don't think he should be looking for a running jumphook though. That does not mean he shouldn't be working on different offensive moves during summer league.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 26, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 1:59 PM

You may be the only person here who doesn't think JM has soft hands and a decent stroke. Doesnt mean you are wrong, but I think just about everybody wants to see him shooting 10-12ft Js with confidence. He can sink that shot for sure, and if he'd start doing it just inside FT line it would do his game a world of good


Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Until the Wiz get a real coach that work with the big and the small they might have problems. Flip and his thousand page playbook sounds to familiar to another Saunders. The 1000 page reference came from McHale. If McGee was a top pick he would be playing and learning on the floor plain and simple. People keep talking this nonsense and remember Wiz only have rights to him for 2yrs. It'll be another young good player gone.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 26, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

How about when Flip said AJ should take less 3s, and AJ responded by taking 7 that night and saying he'd play the way he wanted? Was that profoundly telling?

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 1:52 PM


that was pretty telling. in fact, i think the first shot jamison took that game was a three early in the shot-clock!

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 26, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

and that shot was a sky-hook. That was really telling.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

"You may be the only person here who doesn't think JM has soft hands and a decent stroke. "

Well, we both know that's not true.

"Doesnt mean you are wrong, but I think just about everybody wants to see him shooting 10-12ft Js with confidence."

I don't care how "confident" he is. I just want him to make the shots with reasonable regularity (or, barring that, stop shooting; either would be fine with me). Right now he doesn't. He keeps shooting it though, so as long as he's "confident" I guess it doesn't matter whether it goes in the basket or not.

"He can sink that shot for sure, and if he'd start doing it just inside FT line it would do his game a world of good"

I'll reiterate what I've said before: He gets the vast majority of his made FGs on dunks, yet he barely shoots 50% from the field. Any shot that actually requires the ball to leave his hand before making contact with the rim is, right now, a low percentage shot for him. That's just a fact. I don't care how "soft" his hands are. As for a "decent stroke" . . . it doesn't matter how good the ball looks leaving his hand, it only matters whether it goes in. (By way of contrast, Larry Bird and Reggie Miller, two of the greatest clutch shooters in the history of the game, had fairly ugly looking shots.) They don't give out style points in the NBA. Results are what matters, and any shot other than a dunk has a low probability of succeeding for McGee.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

"We'll never know from the outside how much is just the player and how much is that coaches, but I think it's unfair for both to argue that it's just all one or the other."
Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 1:08 PM

It's definitely not all one or the other. But it definitely starts with the player being willing to put in the work and accept the criticism that he needs to improve. Without that, it doesn't matter what the coaches do.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that was a profoundly telling portrait of a guy who didn't get it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 1:49 PM

How about when Flip said AJ should take less 3s, and AJ responded by taking 7 that night and saying he'd play the way he wanted? Was that profoundly telling?

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

or how bout the catch and shoot version of NY never materialized, but he played some of his best hoop of the season towards the end of the year while doing it "his way". Flip mighta made a mistake trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. NY's far more talented and physically gifted than Rip Hamilton. You're only getting half the player with NY as a spot up shooter. But he's had enough down moments to match or even surpass his highlights. i just didn't see the purpose of benching him for a player who wasn't doing much better and at times was clearly worse.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

It's definitely not all one or the other. But it definitely starts with the player being willing to put in the work and accept the criticism that he needs to improve. Without that, it doesn't matter what the coaches do.

Posted by: kalo_rama

Absolutely, at the same time, we know that all coaches aren't equal in their ability to get through to players. Some coaches are interested in teaching youngsters, some have no interest in rookies and young players. And what responsibility does the organization have to bring in guys who are coachable and willing to put in the work?

But ultimately, it's just one of those things that's really tough to evaluate from the outside, so everyone ends up using it to justify whatever perspective they have.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Larry Bird's jump shot was picture perfect. Ugly it is NOT.

just to refresh your memory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djMGqt02lXk

Posted by: Dave381 | July 26, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

because he plays well in most of his starts, and plays even better when he gets over 25 mins per game.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 1:24 PM

Wizards were 10-13 in games NY started last year. 9-6 when he played 30mins or more.

Maybe rebounding and assists aint all that for a 2guard.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

or how bout the catch and shoot version of NY never materialized, but he played some of his best hoop of the season towards the end of the year while doing it "his way". Flip mighta made a mistake trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. NY's far more talented and physically gifted than Rip Hamilton. You're only getting half the player with NY as a spot up shooter. But he's had enough down moments to match or even surpass his highlights. i just didn't see the purpose of benching him for a player who wasn't doing much better and at times was clearly worse.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I'll give you a team of Nick Young's. I'll take a team of Rip Hamilton's and let's play. NY isn't in the same stratosphere as Rip.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

so what you saying? how did he play in those games?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

@Divi3,

So, your backup for harassing FS last season about McGee's DNP's is that you somehow predicted it???? Good lord. Debating is not your gig man. Still doesn't change the FACT that you have no clue why he did or didn't play.

As for McGee, I'm glad he is getting this experience, but he is not outplaying anybody and only got invited bc Team USA had to go about 15 centers down on their list. He played well for 2 mins! Great. Sounds like the McGee I know all too well and you can't blame his teammates.

When I was younger and playing ball all the time and I got hot, I would demand the ball on the court or follow someone's shot and tap in the rebound or grab a rebound and bring it up myself. I stayed around the ball and made plays for myself and others. I had court sense and leadership qualities albeit at the local gym level...lol (But, they were high quality rec league games ;)). I also didn't get winded in 2 mins. I could play all night or all day and I did.

Just saying there are just certain intangibles some players have and others don't. McGee doesn't and the sooner he learns to focus and play within his limitations the better. If he was the full package, he wouldn't have slipped to late in the first round bc he has HOF caliber raw materials. Unfortunately, I had only rec league quality raw materials.

What worries me the most, as far as his potential is concerned, is his mom was a professional player and he still seems to lack solid fundamentals or a basketball IQ.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Wizards were 10-13 in games NY started last year. 9-6 when he played 30mins or more.

Maybe rebounding and assists aint all that for a 2guard.

Posted by: divi3

The Bulls were 32-21 when Hinrich started, maybe there's more to playing 2-guard than just being 6'6" and scoring ;)

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

or how bout the catch and shoot version of NY never materialized, but he played some of his best hoop of the season towards the end of the year while doing it "his way". Flip mighta made a mistake trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. NY's far more talented and physically gifted than Rip Hamilton. You're only getting half the player with NY as a spot up shooter. But he's had enough down moments to match or even surpass his highlights. i just didn't see the purpose of benching him for a player who wasn't doing much better and at times was clearly worse.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

What is "his way"? Forgetting plays called for him, goofing off, lack of focus, not getting a single assist or rebound virtually every time he gets on the court, or taking step back fadeaway jumpers ad naseum which don't help any shooters FG% etc etc etc.... Sorry, the NY experiment is about to end and probably should have already. I hope JM doesn't go the same route bc he has a lot of NY's sensibilities.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Likewise, if you make the assumption that someone who scores four points in four minutes will go on to score a total of 48 points in the game, you'd almost always be wrong. It's much easier to score 4 points than 48, as any player will tell you.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse


I could be wrong, since Larry's posts are always so longwinded, I often don't read them all the way through, but I think his point was not a statistical one, but rather, that it is more likely that the guy who scored four points in his first two minutes will score more down the road than it is that the guy that didn't score will score next.

It is an intuitive argument, but I wonder how it holds statisctically. I would think it would hold pretty well, if only for the reason that if you score, yuo stay in the game.

Also for the guy who said JaVale is 21 - he is 22. And for the guy who said he was 7ft, he is 7'1-1/2" as per the article the other day.

And for all of you who think he sucks - you seriously don't know what you are talking about. he has some issues he needs to overcome, but I believe he is making progress and will benefit from more floor time.

To wit: season 1 he had a foul every 7.24 minutes. Last season, it was a foul every 8.05 minutes. That means that, at that rate of improvement (11.2% year over year) he should be going about 9 minutes per foul this year and 10 minutes next year. Even at 8 minutes per foul, you can play a full game.

Playing more helps with your conditioning.

He won't be great this year, just a whole lot better. Next year is when he becomes the force, while being fed by Wall in space opened by Blatche and Gil and ???? not to mention our lottery pick from next year's draft.

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

"Larry Bird's jump shot was picture perfect. Ugly it is NOT.

just to refresh your memory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djMGqt02lXk

Posted by: Dave381 | July 26, 2010 3:38 PM

My memory doesn't need refreshing, but your understanding of "picture perfect" shooting does. As the video you provided clearly shows (I love it when people try to support their argument with evidence that ends up supporting mine) Bird's shot is far from text book. He cocks the ball back too far (often bringing it almost behind his head) and his release point is probably off. Which, again, only underscores my point. Style doesn't matter, only results.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

What is "his way"?
Posted by: rphilli721

Sorry, random movie quote association...

Vizzini: Finish him, finish him - your way.
Fezzik: Oh, good. My way. Thank you Vezzini. Which way's my way?
Vizzini: Pick up one of those rocks, get behind the boulder. In a few minutes, the man in black will come running around the bend. The minute his head is in view, HIT IT WITH THE ROCK!
Fezzik: My way is not very sportsmanlike.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

"The Bulls were 32-21 when Hinrich started..."posted by ts35

Wow. Since they finished 41-41, I guess they were 9-20 when Hinrich didn't start. That will definitely leave an impression on a coaching staff.

I notice he started all 5 playoff games and averaged 39 minutes. Went 8 for 16 on 3 pointers.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

In the NBA, everyone has a certain level of talent. Those that listen to the coach, do what he says more often than not, plays to his strengths and plays consistently are the one's that get the consistent playing time. Neither NY or JM fit into that category yet although JM will gets his minutes this season through lack of options alone. I hope he is ready.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

"Neither NY or JM fit into that category yet although JM will gets his minutes this season through lack of options alone. I hope he is ready."

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2010 4:16 PM |

I'm not even sure of that. If Booker, Seraphin, and N'Diay are all on the active roster, comp for minutes could be fierce. Normally you'd assume McGee had the inside track because of experience and familiarity with the coach's system, but his experience doesn't seem to have taught him much and there are times when he doesn't seem all that familiar with much of anything related to the basics of the game. McGee's only real advantage is a physical one, and I think coaches don't value that as much as fans. If N'Diaye or Seraphin display better court awareness and adherence to the system, I could see them pushing for minutes.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Did you see N'Diaye play in Summer league?
I don't see him on the roster unless he improves a LOT since then.
Ernie has to make a move for another big soon.

Posted by: VBFan | July 26, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

You're so funny. I love it when people try to criticize a living legend when they can't even make a lay-up on grade school basket. "Far from textbook"....yeah right you got it from Joakim Noah school of jumpshot. And "his release point is probably off", if that's the case why is his shot going in.

Posted by: Dave381 | July 26, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

If N'Diaye or Seraphin display better court awareness and adherence to the system, I could see them pushing for minutes.

Posted by: kalo_rama

It's a long way until the season starts, and we haven't seen much of Seraphin, but in terms of what I saw from Ndiaye in Summer League, he's still a little ways away. He might pick up more of it in training camp or as the season goes along, but based on what I saw, Ndiaye is not ready for big minutes.

Based on nothing but pure speculation, I would guess that Seraphin will start the season very slowly. His conditioning will likely be a bit behind and because of the injury, he hasn't as much time to familiarize himself with their sets. He's another one who will hopefully come on more as the season progresses.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I don't know what picture perfect is, but LB's release, ball arc, and ball rotation are about as good as it gets. His actual release point made his shot virtually unblockable which helped him bc we all know he was not a sky walker or extremely athletic. Now there is a player whose basketball IQ made him one of the best of all time. He didn't make it on raw materials alone that is for sure. Quite the opposite of a JM.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

I second that. if MEM could draft thabeet top 3 and send him to the D-League, N'Diaye is nowhere but D league bound.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 26, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

@Posted kalo_rama

I think you are demanding or expecting way too much from Mcgee. He was the 18th pick in the 2008 draft after only playing 2 years in college. If had stayed the full 4 years in college he would be a rookie in this upcoming season.

The Wizards drated him based on potential hoping that he would develop into a solid player. There is a lot more room for improvement but people should be real happy with what they see so far. With coaching and experience, to go along with his atlethic abilities Mcgee can become a really good player. The dude is only 22. It's all up to him.

Posted by: spades72 | July 26, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

ased on nothing but pure speculation, I would guess that Seraphin will start the season very slowly. His conditioning will likely be a bit behind and because of the injury, he hasn't as much time to familiarize himself with their sets. He's another one who will hopefully come on more as the season progresses.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse


Do we know for sure that Seraphin will be here this year? I have been away a lot so I may have missed it, but does he have a visa? have we bought his rights or whatever hurdles need to be cleared for a Euro player to come here?

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

You're so funny. I love it when people try to criticize a living legend when they can't even make a lay-up on grade school basket. "Far from textbook"....yeah right you got it from Joakim Noah school of jumpshot. And "his release point is probably off", if that's the case why is his shot going in.

Posted by: Dave381

A lot of shooting coaches from that time will tell you that they had to break a lot of kids of the habit of trying to shoot like Larry Bird. It is absolutely "not textbook". No coach will tell you to cock the ball behind your head. Which is why it messes up a lot of people who try to emulate it. But obviously Larry found a way to make it work for him. That is based far more on Larry's inherent greatness, natural ability, and capability to consistently repeat his mechanics than on the fundamentals of his shot. It was lethally effective and a thing of beauty, but decidedly *not* text book.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Do we know for sure that Seraphin will be here this year? I have been away a lot so I may have missed it, but does he have a visa? have we bought his rights or whatever hurdles need to be cleared for a Euro player to come here?
Posted by: Blurred

All we know for sure I think is that Seraphin has said that the NBA is his priority and (I believe) indicated a desire to be here this season. Technically he has not bought himself out of contract yet, I don't think. The Wizards definitely haven't signed him yet. I don't know if his visa issue has been resolved, but when push comes to shove, usually those things can get worked out when you have enough money to hire the right people to push them through.

Everyone has been acting like they expect him to be here this year, so I'm just going off of that expectation.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

"I think you are demanding or expecting way too much from Mcgee"

It speaks volumes to how much fan expectations have been altered by the lowered age and skill level of incoming players that expecting a guy with two years college and two years pro experience not to take bad shots, not to bite on obvious pump fakes from players who aren't in position to hit the shots they're faking, to stay in the paint on defense for rebounds rather than running out looking for a SportsCenter highlight dunk, and holding position on picks long enough to actually make physical contact with the player they're supposed to be picking off is considered "too much." In other words, asking them to understand the basic fundamentals of the game.

"The dude is only 22. It's all up to him."

That's what worries me.

"That is based far more on Larry's inherent greatness, natural ability, and capability to consistently repeat his mechanics than on the fundamentals of his shot. It was lethally effective and a thing of beauty, but decidedly *not* text book."

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:43 PM

Don't bother. He probably thinks Bird's shooting motion is text book because his own head is so far up his ass that he has no choice but to bring the ball over it when he shoots.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

I expect it too, but if a Euro team wants him for say $5 mil, would he be as keen on coming?

My point is just that I hope he comes and is a a solid player that can push JaVale and play the 5 in a different manner. A successful team needs all its players to know their role and to fill it. If Javale can play 25-30 minutes (4-5 fouls) and disrupt shooters with his length, grab some boards, finish the oops and bring home some putbacks, then I think it is GREAT if we have someon to play the other 20 minutes and close down the lane.

I just hope he does come here and was wondering if any of it was officially finalized. Guess not yet.

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Don't bother. He probably thinks Bird's shooting motion is text book because his own head is so far up his ass that he has no choice but to bring the ball over it when he shoots.

Posted by: kalo_rama

Ya know Kal, that sentence resulted in a disturbing visual I really just didn't need ;).

Just for my part, while I agree Bird's shot was not textbook, I'd personally call it a pretty shot. Bill Cartwright had the ugliest effective jumper I can remember.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I just hope he does come here and was wondering if any of it was officially finalized. Guess not yet.

Posted by: Blurred

Personally, I'd be surprised if he's not here.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

TS 35 - So how do you describe Larry's jumpshot? Is it closer to being ugly or a picture perfect? Simple question.

Posted by: Dave381 | July 26, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"His actual release point made his shot virtually unblockable which helped him bc we all know he was not a sky walker or extremely athletic."

Which is what I meant by it being off. He released it high/early in his motion in order to compensate for his own lack of lift on the shot and get over bigger defenders. From a coach's/purist's standpoint, there is definitely a "right" and a "wrong" way to teach someone how to shoot and most coaches will tell you that by the book, Bird's is "wrong." (In fact, I recall watching 80's Celts games in which the color guys, frequently former coaches, would marvel at his ability to hit it consistently, given how off-form it was). That doesn't make him any less great. In fact, my only (and obvious) point in bringing it up was to underscore how great he was. But, not surprisingly, whatsisname is too much of an inbred prick to pass up a chance to start some idiotic crap.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"Don't bother. He probably thinks Bird's shooting motion is text book because his own head is so far up his ass that he has no choice but to bring the ball over it when he shoots."
Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Yep, name calling. The last line of defense :-)

Posted by: Dave381 | July 26, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

But, not surprisingly, whatsisname is too much of an inbred prick to pass up a chance to start some idiotic crap.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse


Dab nabbed St. Mary's county ought to have laws about family members makin babies

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

TS 35 - So how do you describe Larry's jumpshot? Is it closer to being ugly or a picture perfect? Simple question.

Posted by: Dave381

Pretty much like I already have, lethally effective and a thing of beauty. Definitely not picture perfect. But I think Kal's larger point was not so much about that as it was that it doesn't matter if someone has perfect form (which JaVale doesn't) or soft hands or whatever. Results are more important.

I do believe McGee has a decent degree of inherent 'touch' for a big man, which means I think he can develop into a good shooter with practice. I just don't think he's there now. He's too inconsistent with the footwork and his stroke. He doesn't extend on his shot. Which most times he can get away with because he's 7ft and usually he only shoots uncontested jumpers. But he should develop a consistent shot he can use regardless of the situation. Repeatable mechanics are key.

All of that being said, I would put that down the list of things he needs to focus on.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

"Just for my part, while I agree Bird's shot was not textbook, I'd personally call it a pretty shot."

Oh, it looked great once it left his hands, but most great shooters do. I was talking about his actual shooting motion, which was pretty cockeyed. (Same with Miller, who shot a two handed knuckleball, that looked sweet once it left his hand.)

Of course, all this was in contrast to divi3's repeated assertions about McGee's "touch" and his "stroke." When he squares up on his jumper (which he rarely does) his form is actually pretty good looking. But that doesn't change the fact that the ball rarely finds its way through the net on those shots. So he shouldn't get any extra credit for looking good while missing any more than Bird should have points deducted for looking like he's rubbing the ball against his head trying to generate static cling while raining jumpers on opponents.

Results are all that matter.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

"All of that being said, I would put that down the list of things he needs to focus on."

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 5:08 PM

Yes and no. It would be down on the list of things he needs to focus on if not for the fact that he shows no sign of planning to stop shooting. If he's going to continue to take those shots, then learning to make them has to move up on the list.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

(Same with Miller, who shot a two handed knuckleball, that looked sweet once it left his hand.)
Posted by: kalo_rama

That's just what happens when they let a praying mantis play hoops. (Compare photos. Even the head shape....it's eerie.)

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

So who can post our roster as it stands now?

Wall
Arenas
Young
Blatche
McGee
Yi
Heinrich
Armstrong
Seraphin (we assume)
Thornton?
Singleton?
Martin?(do you know how he got his name?)

Ha yahoo Sports has Seraphin listed as 5'11"


Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Yes and no. It would be down on the list of things he needs to focus on if not for the fact that he shows no sign of planning to stop shooting. If he's going to continue to take those shots, then learning to make them has to move up on the list.

Posted by: kalo_rama

I hear what you're saying, but honestly, for me for this year, if he focused on nothing but defensive fundamentals -- positioning, blocking out, the pump-fake thing -- I'd live with the occasional jumper or off-balance pseudo post-move. The other side of it is that if John Wall acts as a true point guard (and he has shown some signs of this), if JaVale starts jacking up too many, he'll stop getting the ball unless it's an -oop.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

So who can post our roster as it stands now?

Wall
Arenas
Young
Blatche
McGee
Yi
Heinrich
Armstrong
Seraphin (we assume)
Thornton?
Singleton?
Martin?(do you know how he got his name?)

Ha yahoo Sports has Seraphin listed as 5'11"


Posted by: Blurred

Swap Booker for Singleton (I haven't heard anything about re-signing him) and I would say that's probably about right. Hudson may also make one of the 13-15 slots (assuming they do like most teams and rotate some guys through being 'hurt').

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

So we have what? 4 more spots to fill? 5? 3?

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Booker...that's the one I forgot.

Thanks. That makes the roster look a little better.

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

How good was Alonzo Gee at Summer League? via TrueHoop

48 Minutes of Hell break down Gee's summer performance and predict that he'll spend another year in the D-League.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 26, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

If N'Diaye or Seraphin display better court awareness and adherence to the system, I could see them pushing for minutes.

Posted by: kalo_rama

N'Diaye Kal, seriously? That really just proves you dont even watch these guys play for the most part, N'Diaye looks utterly lost on the floor, is a year older than Mcgee, and even skinnier than Javale was last year. But yeah, he's going to push him for minutes.

Like him or not, Mcgee was invited to Team USA again and has practiced/scimmaged with them, may make the 15 man roster. N'Diaye is a 58th pick whose every moment of summer league screamed "DLeague"

I mean really, with statements like that it looks as if you really just dont like certain players and want to see them gone.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

this fool cant even spell....orange??...really???...thats a tough word for him? english?//...went to school with this kid...he passed with grades of a valedictorian but brains of [expletive]. he might want to spend some of that wizards cash on a phonics program...

stop the press nick is very smart I was in one of his class at usc and nick read and spell well, so stop being a hater and now that he is rich he can buy people to read for him

And there's this Nick Young Sucks Forum.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 26, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

hey rphilli, thanks for the laugh. You rag me about a prediction meaning nothing then try and draw a point about these nba players based on your days at the Y. Great stuff man, seriously!

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

re:Seraphin- no idea about his visa and whatnot but EG has made it clear we want him here this year. I think our bigger worry than buyouts and immigration is a knee injury that was reported as "2-3 weeks" yet apparently still isnt healed up 8 weeks later. The kid at the VC workout was a shadow of the player at the Hoop Summit...so let's just hope everything is rehabbed perfectly.

I think he'll play decent minutes this year and is a nice change of pace from Mcgee.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

why does Chris Miller as Hinrich to "reflect" on the shot Gil hit over him 5yrs ago in the playoff series? Is that the worst question ever for a guy just joining your team?

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

"N'Diaye Kal, seriously? That really just proves you dont even watch these guys play for the most part, N'Diaye looks utterly lost on the floor, is a year older than Mcgee, and even skinnier than Javale was last year. But yeah, he's going to push him for minutes."

No, it only proves (again) your tendency to respond to what you want to hear rather than what was actually said.

As I said, the only advantage McGee has over anyone right now is physical and that has limited currency for a coach. Doesn't matter what n'Diaye looked like in Summer League, any more than it matters what McGee looked like in summer league. Other than Wall, no one on this roster has a guaranteed spot in the rotation. There's only one proven star on the team and he's on thinner ice than anyone. McGee has been prince of the clueless his entire time here (Young, of course, is King). If N'Diaye, a 4-year college player-- defensive player of the year, in a big time conference known for defense--manages to grasp the coach's system and scheme coming out of camp (something McGee has proven incapable of so far) then I have no doubt that'll factor into the decision about who does and doesn't play. As for N'Diaye being "skinny" . . . If you really think the size of McGee's biceps is what kept him off the court last season you're the one that's clueless.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

It's too bad that Larry Bird never got that shooting motion down. Otherwise, he might've been a really good NBA player.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 26, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

"It speaks volumes to how much fan expectations have been altered by the lowered age and skill level of incoming players that expecting a guy with two years college and two years pro experience not to take bad shots, not to bite on obvious pump fakes from players who aren't in position to hit the shots they're faking."

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26/10 4:51 PM

I am realistic enough to know that a sophomore player drafted with the 18th pick in the NBA is basically a project and is going take a couple of years to develop. McGee is nowhere close in reaching his potential and is much within the the learning curve. You make it seem he's already maxed out

Posted by: spades72 | July 26, 2010 7:25 PM | Report abuse

If the Wizards are going to be a running team this year, I think Alonzo Gee would be a great pickup. I don't see why Gee would stick with San Antonio, for a training camp bonus, if the Wizards would be willing to sign him to their roster.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | July 26, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

He played 4yrs in college, was Defensive MVP, is 7' tall, and STILL got picked 58th or whatever. Any guesses as to why that might be? You think he's exhibiting the qualities you're talking about? It's just a coincidence he looks lost among summer league players?

That guy is truly a project, he has no offensive game at all and is basically an athletic shot blocker and that's it. Pretty much a lesser version of JM when he came out.

If anybody is pushing for minutes it will be Seraphin, though I suspect when you see his one-handed jumper you may back off that prediction as well

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

"I could be wrong, since Larry's posts are always so longwinded, I often don't read them all the way through, but I think his point was not a statistical one, but rather, that it is more likely that the guy who scored four points in his first two minutes will score more down the road than it is that the guy that didn't score will score next.posted by blurred"

Well, the point I made was that you can't rely on a too-small sample. I also noted that once the sample size is sufficient, accuracy goes up. For example, you can take the scoring average of someone who plays an average of 30 minutes per game and use it to predict how many additional points they'd score if they averaged 36 minutes instead of 30.

But you'd still have a plus-minus error factor.

The error IMO is when we assume that the level of performance established in 10 minutes would automatically extend to 40 minutes. It very rarely does.

There are other factors that can influence real-world outcome, too. Take the recent example of Greg Oden, who averaged 11 points in 24 minutes. On the surface we might assume his average would jump four or five points if he played 32 minutes, but a closer look at the stat line indicates he's accumulating 4 fouls in that 24 minutes -- which suggests that he wouldn't be on the court anyway, or would be restricted in his play by the prospect of picking up another foul.

On the football blogs, people are always falling into the trap of using the yards-per-reception of some young WR who doesn't see action very often and insisting that if the evil uncaring coach just let him play more, he'd electrify the league. But in practice, when he plays a lot and the the defense figures him out, his yards per catch tends to decline.

That's why it's customary to compare apples to apples -- for example, players who play a lot of minutes versus other players who play comparable minutes.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

I thought Kalorama's comment was "If N'Diaye or Seraphin display better court awareness and adherence to the system, I could see them pushing for minutes."

Well, sure. It's like saying 'if player A plays better in these important respects than player B, then it's likely he would get additional court time versus player B".

I don't know how anyone could argue with it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 26, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

OK...so who is on the wish list for players to flesh out our roster? Keep it real, though. No trades or anything involving a superstar to play for $5 mil /yr.

Just look at the FA out there, D-leaguers and undrafted college guys. Let me know who you think we should put on the team.

Personally, I think we should sign Singleton and then i don't care.

Posted by: Blurred | July 26, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

OK...so who is on the wish list for players to flesh out our roster?

Martin should be it unless they find someone during training camp that they really want. That will leave the Wizards with at least one roster spot open for future deals.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 26, 2010 9:13 PM | Report abuse


As I said, the only advantage McGee has over anyone right now is physical and that has limited currency for a coach. Doesn't matter what n'Diaye looked like in Summer League, any more than it matters what McGee looked like in summer league. Other than Wall, no one on this roster has a guaranteed spot in the rotation. There's only one proven star on the team and he's on thinner ice than anyone. McGee has been prince of the clueless his entire time here (Young, of course, is King). If N'Diaye, a 4-year college player-- defensive player of the year, in a big time conference known for defense--manages to grasp the coach's system and scheme coming out of camp (something McGee has proven incapable of so far) then I have no doubt that'll factor into the decision about who does and doesn't play. As for N'Diaye being "skinny" . . . If you really think the size of McGee's biceps is what kept him off the court last season you're the one that's clueless.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Your comments have become increasingly irrational re McGee and Blatche as they have clearly displayed significant improvement over the past year (coinciding with playing time). To compare McGee and N'Diaye shows you have no clue in the talent analysis department. McGee is blessed with great athleticism but soft hands and coordination that N'Diaye may never have. And if all MCgee does is position himself for lob dunks, and putbacks arounf the fim on the way to 60% plus shooting, I can live with that.

McGee had an increasingly productive last half of the year, a great Summer League (the only leage in town during the Summer) and was chosen for a tryout by arguably the finest basketball minds in the world.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 26, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

First off what is all this crying about hater? Seriously we are talking about a team that went 19-63 and 26-56 in their last two seasons. And we talking bad about two guys who can even crack that line-up and we suppose to be nice and not say anything negative about the a player or team.

Please, they have been awful the past two season. It got so ugly last season I had to stop watching to save my sanity.

Posted by: ts35 | July 26, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

TS 35 - So how do you describe Larry's jumpshot? Is it closer to being ugly or a picture perfect? Simple question.

Posted by: Dave381 | July 26, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Larry Bird jump shot IS/WAS and will be ugly. You just don't know what a jump shot looks like.

This is a fundamental sound jump shot and the pretty jump shot I have witnessed the past year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqYIsfw0fuE

Posted by: dcinmd1 | July 27, 2010 12:02 AM | Report abuse

I'm not so sure about JM's competition at C this season. Surely, Booker at 6'7" is not center material and Seraphin although wide bodied, I believe, is listed at 6'9". And, N'Diaye looks to be as raw as it gets. I think even his name means "pure raw skill" in some language. I'll be shocked if JM doesn't get at least 28 mins a night or more this season.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 2:31 AM | Report abuse

I know alot of people have been wondering about the progress of Kevin Seraphin and his knee injury. The Wizards worked him out on July 9th, a day after the acquision was finally made official. Here is link to the workout.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/tag/kevin-seraphin

Posted by: spades72 | July 27, 2010 6:02 AM | Report abuse

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