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John Wall's summer league highlights

By Michael Lee  |  July 23, 2010; 10:39 AM ET
Categories:  John Wall  
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Next: Kirk Hinrich to get introduced on Monday

Comments

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/nba/Spurs_Gee_puts_best_foot_forward_98477449.html

I hope people take the time to read that article right there.

Gee CHOSE to leave. Of course it's still going to be "Ernie let Gee go, he didn't sign him."

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

nice article.

the piece also makes clear that there was a bidding war for gee's services, which is also news to me. it just goes to show that not all contract offers get reported.

hear that, larry?

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

The NbaTv commentators sure beat Buck and Phil!

Can we get a Seraphin update, as in, is he involved in the French world team at all?

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse


There should be no angst over a marginal talent like Gee when we have future stars in Blatche, McGee, Wall, Booker and Seraphin, each carefully and thoughtfully selected by our Ernest Grunfeld.

There is a reason why Gee finds himself in a fight for a roster spot--his warts currently overshadow his beauty marks. Ernest intelligently ceded ground when Gee's price became more than he was comfortable with, given the Wizards' situation at the time.

I'm starting to believe the theory proposed by many of you that some of the Wizards faithful have a pronounced learning disability in view of the fact that they appear all too willing to see the Wizards make the same mistakes of the past, including overpaying for talent that would, at best, provide a marginal return. Despite their apparent disability, they will have no problem learning what it's like to have a championship parade when OUR beloved Wizards ultimately win it all!

The Ernest Grunfeld Era has just begun. Patience, faithful.

In Grunfeld We Trust!!

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 23, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

tgif11,

If you have been following closely, it isn't the player that I am really honking about. It is the perception of the Wizards and how they do business.

Whether it's Gee, Haywood, Blatche, Livingston, Arenas, Martin, and Howard might be next in line, it does send a signal now about how we deal with players.

Contrary to some's opinions, the perceptions from the outside on how we handle players is hughely important to winning a championship.

How we deal with players plays tremendously in who signs and resigns with us.

Some of yawls may not put much stock in this, but I put huge stock in it.

The proof is in the pudding "Haywood said this, Livingston said this"... why did they say what they did? Is everything changed now that we got John Wall and now we are set for a championship?

Livinston may realize that his best move was to have stayed here. For one to speculate that we could not use him is poppycock.

I keep getting asked, well how do I know that the Wizs didn't offer to Livingston?

The answer is, there isn't any evidence that they did and the perceptions from the outside looking in is that they did not, whether they actually did offer.

It is like a tree falling in a forest with no one around, does it make a sound? Who knows???

And I am saying that unless there is really a change being brought about in this organization from whomever, the way we handle players will doom any chance of the Wizards building a championship squad.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

melodious_thunk

The Ernest Grunfeld Era has just begun.

No that started on June 30th 2003 when he got hired.

Now, if you want to write the Ernest Grunfeld (who has to listen to who Ted tells him to draft, trade and or sign versus listening to Abe tell him those things)Era has just begun...that makes sense.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 23, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Former New Yorker, unexcited about the In Grunfeld We Trust position, but, after decades in DC, not willing to dismiss it either.

Former admirer of posts from GM and Larry In Clinton, figuring maybe the summer heat is taking its toll.

Former poster, hoping DC_Man sticks to the bold type; it serves as effective fair warning.

You figure they've got exciting basketball debates going on in Cleveland in mid-July?

Posted by: WilliamCarr | July 23, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 23, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I'm all for wanting to see Ernie succeed...however Gee was a mistake. Not a huge one, but a mistake none the less.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 23, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Larry, there's not one statement in your last post supported with facts.

I do give you props for admitting that you don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 23, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

It is like a tree falling in a forest with no one around, does it make a sound? Who knows???

And I am saying that unless there is really a change being brought about in this organization from whomever, the way we handle players will doom any chance of the Wizards building a championship squad.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

no it's like a tree falling in the forset and a very select group of people are around. Ask SL if he was offered do some real legwork outside of net searches, become a journalist and report these non essential pieces of info just to support a senseless argument. i usually fux wit ya larry, but to go on and on for weeks about SL is crazy. He was a good fit for our 26 win team, but he said himself that he didn't owe the wiz anythang, and was gonna explore his options. Gil, Wall, and Hinrich make for a crowded backcourt. We had to get kirk to get seraphin, and Kirk is more than adequate as Wall's backup. Why would SL come back here into a position battle when he's trying to play? he's also angling for some guaranteed money so, let's say the 'Cats offered more than the wiz, can you blame'em. With Ray Felton hitting the bricks all they had was Augustine, i suppose we coulda gotten into a bidding war with the 'Cats for a player that they would value as a starter, but we would value as a backup. But then we'd prolly end up overpaying for a guy we don't plan to use much. Wall's your number 1, gil can shift over, kirk comes off the bench (and he has to play to justify the $17M). There's very little room for a guy whose knee is prone to exploding during basketball games............at least not another one.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Interesting move my Gee. He chose to forgo playing time with a fledgling lottery team for playoff experience with a contender. I would think he would want some serious playing to establish himself in the league and worry about the playoffs later. That will take care of its self. If he remained with the Wiz he probably would have been in the rotation. He is not even guaranteed spot with the Spurs.

Posted by: thecomedian1 | July 23, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 23, 2010 12:18 PM

You're coming dangerously close to saying that Grunfeld turned this franchise around and was running things when the Wizards were a perennial playoff team. The clear implication? His "era" didn't start with the 2008-2009 season and all the losing. Careful.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 23, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

tgif11

I give Ernie credit for the things he did right, but melodious_thunk blames all of the mistakes Ernie made on Abe

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 23, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

No 78...you don't give Ernie credit for the things he did right.

Ernie got Caron for Kwame...the Lakers got Gasol for him...give Ernie a raise.

Doesn't sound like credit to me.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

@omgwthrotfl,

Mini bidding war is different from bidding war. Nonetheless, it is the perception, the blackeye, that the Wizards has IMO in the way it deals with their players.

Now we can pontificate all we want that the Wizards is negotiating and wheeling and dealing like any other NBA teams, but I beg to differ with that opinion.

The Wizards IMO have a tarred reputation that needs some repairing.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Mini bidding war is different from bidding war. Nonetheless, it is the perception, the blackeye, that the Wizards has IMO in the way it deals with their players.

Now we can pontificate all we want that the Wizards is negotiating and wheeling and dealing like any other NBA teams, but I beg to differ with that opinion.

The Wizards IMO have a tarred reputation that needs some repairing.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

But a BIDDING war means they made a BID. Correct? Wasn't reported that they did until now...was it?

So what does that tell you?

I feel like I'm spoon feeding a child.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

@lilhollywood10,

How many times do I have to say it. It isn't about the player, but the perceptions of the Wizards.

The face of your organization is extremely important. The Wizards are loosing in the Perception Department.

Thats important to me, maybe not important to some of you and maybe some of you think the Wizard perceptions in how it deals with players is just fine.

I BEG TO DIFFER.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

@SDMDTSU,

Spoon Feed??? I never stated that Gee wasn't offered a bid and it has been reported before now that Wiz did offer to Gee.

I am on record that there isn't any report that they offered Livingston a contract.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse


Now we can pontificate all we want that the Wizards is negotiating and wheeling and dealing like any other NBA teams, but I beg to differ with that opinion.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

yes, i will state that it is a fact that the wizards are negotiating, wheeling and dealing just like any other nba team. is it your position that some outside entity is running things for the Wizards for their own good (bless their little hearts for trying, though!)?

now, i know i'm ging to regret this, but here goes: what, precisely, is the wizards reputation around the league? that they won't pay to keep players? hint: this may be a trap! :-)

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Regarding my issues with Ernie and Gee.
To beat this dead horse for the last time,
the reports we were given at the time Gee signed with the Spurs came from Mike Lee, bulletsforever.com and Kyle Weidie at truthaboutit.net..

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2010/03/foye-might-be-done-for-the-sea.html?wprss=wizardsinsider

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/3/29/1395814/the-alonzo-gee-saga-is-where-bad

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2010/03/one-last-visit-with-the-departed-alonzo-gee.html

Am I surprised to hear Gee say how much he wanted to sit in a suit and watch the Spurs play? No. Especially since that's the roster he trying to make this season.

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 23, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Ernie got Caron for Kwame...the Lakers got Gasol for him...give Ernie a raise.

Doesn't sound like credit to me.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU

The "give Ernie a raise" started after the last two years the Wizards ended up in the lottery.

The Caron for Kwame was a good deal, but the deal Mitch Kupchak made was better...

whats wrong with that?

It's like someone else posted...yes, maybe Abe told Ernie he wanted to win now, but I doubt Abe told him to trade the 5th pick for MM and Foye which didn't work since both of them aren't on the team.

I've listed the things Ernie has done right before against the things I believe he did wrong and to me it's 3 to 1 in favor of the wrong column.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 23, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:30 PM

but you made a distinction between mini-bidding war and bidding war. what's the difference betweeen the two and why did you make the distinction? to minimize the efforts of the wizards, perhaps?

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Mitch Kupchak also gave two fisrt round picks and the current starting C for the Grizzlies...Marc Gasol.

You sure seem to leave that part out though...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

If you really want to have some fun with the "Ernie should haves"....

Dont sign Hinrich, sign Livingston, use $$$ to get the 11th and take Cole Aldrich, no Seraphin, draft Gani Lawal (or booker is he's still there). And spend less money in the process!

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Oh, by the way lilhollywood10,

I would love to ask SL if the Wizs offered him a tender, but my tentacles don't go that far.

So I will just keep my comments to what I see, hear, and read in the media.

Also, I never indicated we should overpay for SL, only to voice our appreciation for him and offer a fair market tender for him to consider staying here.

I know, we know, the Wizs know he indicated he was headed for greener pastures, but a good poker player always plays his best cards. It isn't wise to always just to fold your hand when you already know that by making a offer thats acceptable to you strengthens your position.

In Livingston case, he made the best deal, played the best card and we folded.

Can you understand where I am coming from?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

But can only play the cards you have.

Posted by: thecomedian1 | July 23, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

@lilhollywood10,

How many times do I have to say it. It isn't about the player, but the perceptions of the Wizards.

The face of your organization is extremely important. The Wizards are loosing in the Perception Department.

Thats important to me, maybe not important to some of you and maybe some of you think the Wizard perceptions in how it deals with players is just fine.

I BEG TO DIFFER.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

who have you heard speak about their perception of the franchise other than us bloggers. I haven't heard a peep of negativity from Yi,Armstrong,Hinrich,Booker or any of the other players we just brought in. it seems like Your perception of the team may be a negative one, but i haven't hear any player saying they weren't interested in the Wizards..........other than the guys who clearly chose greener pastures. but that could be a function of several different factors.
Either way you're talking about a team that won 45 total games over the past two seasons and has new ownership commited to "building through the draft". it doesn't sound like the best FA locale. most good FAs either stayed put or went to some type of "Super-Team" situation. I could see you griping about us not chasing a difference maker in FA, like a Gay,Johnson,Darko (ok not darko) but you're harping about the perception of the team being lowered because we didn't re-sign SL? Is there a low perception of the OKC organization because they cut SHAUN early last season? What about MIA who cut him too?People callin them a two bit operation because they didn't want SL?
If your argument hinges on your perception of the alleged lowering "perception" of the wizards i got news for you 19 wins one year followed by 26 the next makes you look stinky regardless of how you do business. SL got a sweet deal and a competitive chance at starting on a playoff caliber team. The wiz just weren't gonna give him that.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

All in all,
I don't see Grunfeld as a bad GM, certainly not after seeing the FA signings this summer. I see Ernie as a middle of the road GM. He has some strenghts and some weaknesses.
Ernie's good moves with the Wizards:
Signing Gilbert (Prior to the knee and gun that signing was a coup!)
Trading Kwame for Caron (Caron becomes an All Star)
The deal for Jamison (Made the Wizards a playoff team).

And when the time came, the demolition of the team was done quickly.

My problem with Ernie is in his draft record...

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 23, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:45 PM

"I would love to ask SL if the Wizs offered him a tender, but my tentacles don't go that far. So I will just keep my comments to what I see, hear, and read in the media."

good plan, larry!

"In Livingston case, he made the best deal, played the best card and we folded."

so much for the plan.


Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

but you made a distinction between mini-bidding war and bidding war. what's the difference betweeen the two and why did you make the distinction? to minimize the efforts of the wizards, perhaps?

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 1:36 PM

Bidding war as you indicate seems to indicate 1) huge amount of money, or 2) many teams.

The article clearly states mini bidding war and does not indicate either 1) or 2) as stated above.

I come away with the perception that the Spurs and the Wizs and some back and forth going on.

When you said bidding war that implys more than what actually occurred.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh, by the way lilhollywood10,

I would love to ask SL if the Wizs offered him a tender, but my tentacles don't go that far.

So I will just keep my comments to what I see, hear, and read in the media.

Also, I never indicated we should overpay for SL, only to voice our appreciation for him and offer a fair market tender for him to consider staying here.

I know, we know, the Wizs know he indicated he was headed for greener pastures, but a good poker player always plays his best cards. It isn't wise to always just to fold your hand when you already know that by making a offer thats acceptable to you strengthens your position.

In Livingston case, he made the best deal, played the best card and we folded.

Can you understand where I am coming from?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

folding is implying that you've lost, as you've had to ante up soomething just to get in the game. I'd say we didn't want to play at that table because the shot at a payoff wasn't worth the entry fee. Even if we did sign SL and he was great; it would take injury to Wall,Gil and Hinrich for SL to log big mins they have to justify their #1, their $80M man, and their draft day trade @ $9M per. Why have to worry about having to justify givng SL millions to ride the pine? I'm more interested in seeing if Lester Hudson or Jerome "Handles" Randle can stick around.......you know guys who want to be here. SL woulda saved us this whole argument if he'da said he wanted to be here. then people could ask "why not bring SL back he played well and said he wanted to be here." Instead he says " i don't owe anyone anything and I'm gonna explore my options." after dropping a coupla hundred million on buying the team i'm sure Ted reminded him to take his compass. Guys who want to be here are here. guys who didn't like SL and Gee are gone to greener pastures. best of luck to both of'em.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

My problem with Ernie is in his draft record...

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 23, 2010 1:54 PM

Cant lie, watching the Seraphin workout at VC I was like "Oh christ, this guy cant get up and down the court and has nothing on offense."

BUT...he was just back from the "minor 3-4 week injury" that's kept him out 2 months, probably running on a sore knee not fully tested. So no worries yet.

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

@lilhollywood10,

My good fellow, you are missing my point entirely.

It is okay to disagree with me on whether I feel that the perceptions of the Wizards is tarnished. That's fine.

But you keep saying I am basing it partly on the fact that we did not resign Livingston.

That would be incorrect. Please look at what I am really saying.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

When you said bidding war that implys more than what actually occurred.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

no it "implys" that the wizards were in competition for his services with at least one other team. no more, no less. look up "bidding" and "war" and you'll see that neither necessarily includes "huge sums of money" or "many [entities]". nice try.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

now, i know i'm ging to regret this, but here goes: what, precisely, is the wizards reputation around the league? that they won't pay to keep players? hint: this may be a trap! :-)

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 1:33 PM

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 23, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Guys who want to be here are here. guys who didn't like SL and Gee are gone to greener pastures. best of luck to both of'em.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 2:00 PM

That's right. Eff them and lets move on!

Posted by: thecomedian1 | July 23, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Larry, what's wrong with the Wizards not wanting Livingston and therefore not offering him a contract? Or should they have offered him one out of politeness?

His knee probably precluded him from EG/Flip wanting to sign him, specifically because Gil's creaky wheel is already in the backcourt.

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

@divi3,
I'm looking forward to the rebuilding process under Ted and Ernie. And I'll be pulling hard for Seraphin, Booker, Hinrich, Yi and hopefully N'Diaye play with that energy and effort we got last year from Singleton, Thornton, Howard and McGee.

I'm also hoping like hell that Ernie doesn't feel the need to resign "Dribble & Shoot" (Boykins)

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 23, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

"folding is implying that you've lost,"

Precisely, lilhollywood10,

And all I am saying is that when Livinsgton said he was leaving, we hadn't lost yet and still had something to gain.

We should have played the publicity card on him by showing our appreciation above board, offering him a tender above board, and wishing him well if he still decided to move on.

By playing that last card it, I am saying would have spoken positive volumes for our team in the Perception Department.

Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you and others, but in my scheme of things to align yourself with the top echelon teams/organization you should never miss a chance to foster first class perceptions about your team.

The card of appreciation/tender offer was a bluff that he probably would not have called us on, but that card would have shot up our Public image.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"folding is implying that you've lost,"

Precisely, lilhollywood10,

And all I am saying is that when Livinsgton said he was leaving, we hadn't lost yet and still had something to gain.

We should have played the publicity card on him by showing our appreciation above board, offering him a tender above board, and wishing him well if he still decided to move on.

By playing that last card it, I am saying would have spoken positive volumes for our team in the Perception Department.

Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you and others, but in my scheme of things to align yourself with the top echelon teams/organization you should never miss a chance to foster first class perceptions about your team.

The card of appreciation/tender offer was a bluff that he probably would not have called us on, but that card would have shot up our Public image.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

as opposed to implying we lost, I'm of the opinion that once his intentions were plain for all to see, we didn't want to play that game .

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Larry, relax, you need some of what Melodious Thunk is smoking. Actually I'd like to try what Melodious is smoking. SL and Gee are gone, let go.

Posted by: midlevex_ | July 23, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

@omgwthrotfl

what, precisely, is the wizards reputation around the league? that they won't pay to keep players?

IMO, the Wizards rep, under Pollin, wasn't that they won't pay to keep players. It's more that the franchise was run "cut rate".
Part of that was exposed when CWebb was here and complained about the team flying Business Class, while most teams were either flying private planes or charter flights. prior to going downtown, poor facilities; players having to bring some of there own supplies for practice.

Of course the Jordan fiasco, where MJ checked the entire team out of Abe Pollin's brother motel in Seattle, to put the team up at the Four Seasons because the motel was second rate...

Not to mention, the cause of the whole JHoward $100 million deal. The fact that Abe balked at the 6 year $24 million deal David Falk asked for in the rookie contract. Instead, Abe won a lower contract, but the addition of opt out after 2 years wound up biting him in the a$$. That negotiation was the straw in the camel's back starting the feud between David Falk and Abe Pollin.

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 23, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@Larry

Publicity card? are you implying that we shoulda offered him an above market contract and called his bluff? what if he called ours and actually signed the above board deal?
You keep talking about the perception of the franchise. What is the widely accepted perception? Is it just your opinion? Who else was treated inappropriately (assuming you feel Sl was).

Once again, i can't see how the perception of the team is anything other than that of a team trying to rebuild around the youth that they drafted. No major FA signings b/c we didn't want to spend that type of money this summer. There wasn't a position of dire enough need (maybe C or SF) that tossing money at FAs was necessary.

Since it's not about Livingston, stop mentioning him in the first sentence of your posts, it erodes credibility. please give me other examples of players being treated in a manner that would negatively affect the perception of the team. Don't tell me "you don't get it my friend" as i already know this is a battle of opinions dwindling towards a stalemate. just tell me what is the perception of today's washington wizards and the incidents that factor in to this perception (not just your perception, but THE Perception.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 23, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

anything after say 2002?better yet anything since ted bought the team. i wouldn't want to hold him accountable for situations that occurred under the Iron Fist/Iron Wallet(I Kid) of Abe Polin

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse


Saunders believes that the Wizards will make it a priority to retain his services when this season is over. "No question, we'd like to have him," he said. "We're feeling that this summer can be big for him, working with him, with his strength to get him back. That's one of the reasons we signed him for the year."

When asked about returning to the Wizards next season, Livingston said, "Definitely -- If I'm wanted. I hope everything works out right. I'm about winning and success. I've always based my career upon that. You got to obviously make the best decisions for your future and your career, so we'll see what happens."

Although the Wizards took a chance on him, Livingston said they don't have a particular advantage over any other team. "I appreciate it, but it's business as usual," Livingston said. "They were looking at me coming in to see if I could help them, to see what's best for their team. I got to do the same thing on my side."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2010/04/shaun-livingston-discusses-his.html

Posted by: harrybalz | July 23, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

ooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh buss u out Lurry

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

i think that's called the publicity card, courtesy of flip saunders

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 3:05 PM

Bingo. We have a winner, folks!!

Posted by: harrybalz | July 23, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"Cant lie, watching the Seraphin workout at VC I was like "Oh christ, this guy cant get up and down the court and has nothing on offense."BUT...he was just back from the "minor 3-4 week injury" that's kept him out 2 months, probably running on a sore knee not fully tested. So no worries yet.
Posted by: divi3"

At least you got to see him play. That puts you up on most of the folks around here.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

lilhollywood10,

Stalemate.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Translation: I got nothing. LMAO!

Posted by: bobabuie | July 23, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Can we get a Seraphin update, as in, is he involved in the French world team at all?

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 11:43 AM

He's on the French team. I have not seen anything saying exactly where he is located, but probably at the French team's training camp is logical to assume.

Team schedule has them in Pau, France from July 25 to Aug 7, and after that playing exhibition games.
They will be in New York Aug 15 to play exhibition/training game against the US team.

http://www.basketfrance.com/_edf/page_m.php?d=campagnes&p=equipes&id_equ=1&s=2010

Posted by: rickgonz | July 23, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Don't tell me "you don't get it my friend" as i already know this is a battle of opinions dwindling towards a stalemate. just tell me what is the perception of today's washington wizards and the incidents that factor in to this perception (not just your perception, but THE Perception.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

so you'd rather not provide the examples i requested,huh, I'm still trying to find out what the perception of the Wizards Franchise is, as you have not given one piece of evidence to support that there is a widely accepted negative perception of the Wizards with regards to how they deal with players (especially now with Ted at the helm). Sorry friend i wouldn't call this one a stalemate,your king is sittin sidewayz bruh.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

last comment directed at Larry from KnowWhenTaFoldem, MD

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards franchise may have any number of perception issues, but not paying to keep players issn't one of them. In the last few years they've shelled out a medium sized fortune to the formerly-Big 3 in a showy (albeit doomed) attempt to build a winner, as well as (foolishly) matching the offer sheet for Etan. Quite frankly, none of the players they've let go in the past few years as FAs were really worth spending a lot of money to keep. (Which does, of course, point to another of the franchise's problems.)

Going back, even the Howard thing doesn't really count because that salary dispute (as penny ante as it was on the Bullets' part) came when he was drafted, before he'd played a nanosecond of NBA ball. "Keeping him" wasn't the issue because they didn't have him. And a legit argument could bee made that most people were surprised at how good a player he turned out to be, so the Bullets' skepticism about his value was hardly an isolated thing.

Certainly since Grunfeld came abour, they've shelled out money to

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 23, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: djnnnou | July 23, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

so much for the "2-3 week minor knee injury" reported back in late may!

Has to be a bit concerning he still cant play in late July after suffering this "minor" injury in May...

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse


Ernie won't even look at a guy unless he's known to have knee problems. Only Ted's mandate kept him from offering Livingston a near-max contract.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 23, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Sounds from the article that the French team anticipated Seraphin and Diot might well not be ready for their camp and so 'overbooked' their roster so the two wouldn't have to be replaced.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

the part i dont like is him being described as "not close to a return." Hopefully something is lost in translation by the time it gets to the FIBA Turkey site

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

blog's dead, did everybody get off work early but me???????????????????????

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

the part i dont like is him being described as "not close to a return." Hopefully something is lost in translation by the time it gets to the FIBA Turkey site

Posted by: divi3 | July 23, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

not close to return in time for him to compete with the rest of the camp invites,perhaps. I dunno, maybe they have seen something from the extra 2-3 guys they brought in that makes it worth it for the French to give these kids a shot. On a whole nuther angle, his people may be trying to get him out of the worlds altogether, and thus playing the injury up, so that he can get more rest and be healthier if/when he crosse the pond. A lot of ifs/maybes. hopefully the Kid makes an impact, then again let's just hope that we're not really pinning our dreams on a rookie, backup-backup PF.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 23, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Coach Vincent Collet had wanted to give each player a chance to prove he could recover from his problem, but with neither close to a return they have been released.

Looks like editorializing to me. I would of been surprised if the Wizards had let Seraphin participate after he missed the summer league.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 23, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Team USA will try to take advantage of its versatility

John Schuhmann's latest report on the Team USA training camp. This one gives the best sense of how the team will function.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 23, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Then again let's just hope that we're not really pinning our dreams on a rookie, backup-backup PF
That'd be a rookie, backup-backup PF with a bad knee.

Posted by: midlevex_ | July 23, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"And all I am saying is that when Livinsgton said he was leaving, we hadn't lost yet and still had something to gain. We should have played the publicity card on him by showing our appreciation above board, offering him a tender above board, and wishing him well if he still decided to move on."

No, we shouldn't have. If players around the league have a belief that Washington is not a desireable location, having a free agent turn you down just reinforces that belief. And Livingston was going to turn us down. He wasn't going to be the no. 4 guard here when he could go to Charlotte and compete for a starting job. And I seriously doubt if we would have matched Charlotte's offer for a guy who was going to be a no. 4 guard.

"By playing that last card it, I am saying would have spoken positive volumes for our team in the Perception Department. Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you and others, but in my scheme of things to align yourself with the top echelon teams/organization you should never miss a chance to foster first class perceptions about your team."

How does making a free agent offer that you know will be turned down foster a first-class perception about your organization?

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 23, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Here's some video of a Seraphin workout. Obviously nobody is taking a chance with that knee. That's quite a physique, however... been a while since the Wiz had anybody with a frame that wide.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2010/07/working-out-with-kevin-seraphin.html

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Samson151

From that video it looks like the kid will be okay as long as they are playing the Cavs and AJ is guarding him?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 23, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Nice video, Samson.

Seraphin showed nice touch to me on his jumper and that left hand hook was pretty good too. Obviously, the pressure's different when you've Tim Duncan breathing down your neck, but it looks like he at least has some tools to work with.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 23, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

WhyTF are you guys talking about perceptions of the Wiz rooted in things that happened previous to the new owner or years ago??? You think players here and now care about those things??? We have a new owner that has already built one of the best organizations in the entire NHL. One that will be a true contender for the foreseeable future. I'll tell you "the perception" right now and that is the Wiz are a franchise rebuilding with young talent that just landed a top tier PG through the draft who is surrounded by other potential blossoming young talent. Aging veterans and the superstar FA's are likely to avoid such a situation for now. But, the "cheap" label and any other label of the past has nothing to do with the present.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

The video of Seraphin seems to reinforce what EG said about him. He looks like the rawish wide bodied banger with skill that was advertised. At the very least, he and Booker should be immediate help for guys like McGee and AB in practice. I'm sure they will both get some PT as well particularly as the season progresses.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

The video of Seraphin seems to reinforce what EG said about him. He looks like the rawish wide bodied banger with skill that was advertised. At the very least, he and Booker should be immediate help for guys like McGee and AB in practice. I'm sure they will both get some PT as well particularly as the season progresses.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

It reminds me K.Brown's 2001 work out, i hope he is better than him.Is it the injury or he is a kind of slow?

Posted by: gtefferra | July 23, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 23, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

"From that video it looks like the kid will be okay as long as they are playing the Cavs and AJ is guarding him?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

LOL it certainly won't hurt.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

It reminds me K.Brown's 2001 work out, i hope he is better than him.Is it the injury or he is a kind of slow?

Posted by: gtefferra

Don't be a blind follower. Form your own opinion.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 23, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Firuz1
was that your opinion i followed?

Posted by: gtefferra | July 23, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

was that your opinion i followed?

Posted by: gtefferra | July 23, 2010 10:22 PM

No, the opinion of someone else. Again, think for yourself.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 24, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

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