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Kirk Hinrich hoping to provide leadership, defense


I just want to make one thing clear: It's Kirk! (Photo by Jahi Chikwendiu/The Washington Post)


Kirk Hinrich wanted to keep him from driving into the lane, force him to take a difficult jumper, and Gilbert Arenas did exactly what Hinrich wanted. But when Hinrich and Tyson Chandler lunged toward Arenas in Game 5 of the Chicago Bulls' first-round series against the Wizards in 2005, they were unable to alter Arenas's shot or prohibit it from splashing through the net and providing the franchise's greatest moment of the past decade.

"He made a pretty tough one," Hinrich said with a smile, as he was introduced to Washington on Monday.

But now Hinrich is Arenas's teammate, as the Wizards took their first step toward establishing a new personality for the team when it agreed to acquire the seventh-year veteran guard hours before taking John Wall No. 1 overall in the NBA draft.

Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld said it was essential for the team to acquire a player like Hinrich, who was team captain four seasons in Chicago and has always led by example. "The direction we're trying to go -- obviously, we're building -- but when you build you also need some veterans, some leaders, players who have been through the wars before and Kirk is definitely one of those players," Grunfeld said, although it sounded as if he called him, "Kurt."

"We expect him to provide a lot of leadership on our team," he said.

On a team in which eight of the 11 players on the roster are 25 or younger, Hinrich said he wouldn't run away from the responsibility of helping his teammates along. "I think leadership, you have to be one of those guys that's a hard worker that everybody respects," Hinrich said. "It's about earning that; going out there, doing the right thing and trying to play the right way. I think it kind of comes with the territory. I think when Ernie traded for me, he knew that's what I'm going to do."

Hinrich will also defend. He may have been on the wrong end against Arenas five years ago, but he has always been a scrappy player who earned second-team all-defensive honors in 2007. Though he stands just 6 feet 3, Hinrich often had to take on the assignment of guarding the opponent's best perimeter scorer. Hinrich has tangled with Dwyane Wade and even guarded Paul Pierce during the Bulls' playoff series against Boston in 2009.

"I've always had it," Hinrich said of his desire to compete defensively. "I love to score and play offense, but I almost more just hated to get scored on. When I got in the league, I realized that's how you win. All the great teams that win NBA championships are very good defensively and all-around good teams. I feel like if you're not a good defensive team, it's tough to win in this league.
"Ernie and [Coach Flip Saunders] have talked about changing the identity of the team of being tougher and more defensive-minded and I think that if we want to take that next step, that's what we have to do," he said.


I'm on your side now, Gilbert. (AP Photo by Jeff Roberson)

Hinrich said he wasn't sure what his role would be in Washington, but it is likely that it will be similar to the one he had in Chicago, where he backed up Bulls all-star guard Derrick Rose, shared the backcourt with him and sometimes moved over to small forward. "Well, I think we're going to figure that out," he said. "I probably feel more comfortable playing the [point guard], it's a little easier, but I'm very capable of playing both positions. I think at training camp, it's going to be a challenge, to figure out how I fit in and do what I can do to help the team and we'll go from there."

Hinrich met Wall briefly when he came to Washington for his physical shortly after the trade became official nearly three weeks ago. He said he could see some similarities between Wall and Rose. "I've met him for a brief second. Just from impressions, seeing him in college and in summer league, I feel they are similar in their athletic ability," he said. "They are both elite athletes in this league. I'm excited to get to know him and have some fun and play some good basketball this year."

The trade had to be unsettling for Hinrich. He had just completed his fifth postseason appearance in seven seasons with Chicago when he found out that the only team he has ever played for professionally dealt him to a Wizards team trying to remove the stench of an embarrassing 26-win season in which Arenas brought guns to the locker room.

When asked his initial response to the trade, Hinrich admitted that the pre-draft deal was "a bit of a shock" but immediately he found the positive spin. "It hit me a little bit blindsided with the trade, but it's great to be wanted," Hinrich said.

But it was obvious that having to answer my question made him uncomfortable. Hinrich doesn't have much interest in looking back too much on his time with the Bulls, as evidenced by his laughter and non-reply after a kid at Wizards basketball camp asked, "What will you miss most about Chicago?"

Hinrich wants to look ahead to his time in Washington with a team that he believes is capable of making a playoff run with special talents on the roster such as Wall and Arenas. "Whenever you have the No. 1 pick and have guys as talented as John and you have a young cast around him, it's a sense of rebuilding, but I feel we have the talent and we play the right way, play hard, consistently each night, I feel we can surprise a lot of people," Hinrich said.

And maybe Hinrich can be on the floor for more memorable moments in Wizards history.

By Michael Lee  |  July 27, 2010; 12:46 AM ET
Categories:  Gilbert Arenas , John Wall , Kirk Hinrich  
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Next: Is it Al Thornton time?

Comments

Hinrich is really a perfect addition for his leadership, experience, defense, shooting and ability to play both guard positions. His contract, at $9 mill a year, is a little steep for a rebuilding situation, but it's only two years. Maybe they will even move him at some point to a contender and pick up a pick or younger player.

Posted by: travisloop | July 27, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I can just imagine this team pressing others. Wall, Hinrich, & Booker pressing the hell out of other 1, 2 and 3s.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Over the long haul I suspect we'll discover the best thing about adding Hinrich is: we get Kevin Seraphin, lose nothing.

I like the idea of Kirk exemplifying defense in practice against Gil and Johnny Ballgame, he an Nick may prove to be a tough defensive combo for the 'B' team (Nick can play one-on-one defense, just not team D all that well). If this helps Gil and John Wall to step it up a notch on both ends then great.

But I'm most excited about adding a guy under the boards who loves to bang, prides himself on defense, and has a more highly developed back-to-basket game than a pretty fussy pseudo-small forward face-up game. Not afraid to bruise somebody. Kid already shows good footwork under there. Good synergy with Dray. I expect him to push JaVale in the weight room, otherwise he takes JaVale's best chance at starting minutes.

Posted by: doclinkin | July 27, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Yeah a defensive lineup would be Wall, Hinrich, booker, seraphin, and Hilton armstrong

Posted by: jefferu | July 27, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Two things about Hinrich in the article above stand out for me.

1) he said it was great to be wanted. To me that says a lot. His initial reaction to being traded to the Wizards caught him off guard, but being wanted by the Wizards meant a lot to him.

Being wanted. Shall I say anymore, enough said, and I think most know what I am referring to.

2) An observation, here in Hinrich a player with playoff experience, a veteran, and is relishing getting going with the Wizards knowing he is coming in as a backup, possibly the first guy of the bench to back up Wall and maybe Arenas as well depending on the situation.

Now that is an attitude that you can put the word winner beside.

Those of you, to include Livingston himself, whom seemed to justify as one of the reasons for Livingston leaving here was because he would be a backup, obviously don't see and understand all that it takes to win.

Hinrich seems to understand, that to start is not always the goal when you are talking about winning.

The guy coming off the bench may be everybit as instrumental to a winning team as well as the one who starts.

That is one thing that Livingston overlooked in his desire to be a starter and also a poor reason to have been used by him and bloggers here to eschew the Wizards for another team.

Even though everyone knows that I think the Wizards should have done more to show Livingston that THEY WANTED HIM HERE, I have also stated the Livingston might realize that maybe the right decision was to stay here.

A Livingston proponent, yes I am, but at the same time, I cannot take anything away from the attitude of Hinrich.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 27, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Is it now crystal clear to the tone-deaf haters where Ernest Grunfeld is going with this masterpiece currently under composition?

Quite simply, Ernest wants guys who have a little barroom brawler in them. Hinrich, Seraphin, Booker. Each, upon meeting you, would just as soon give you a roundhouse right as shake your hand! They are tough-minded players who give no quarter and ask for none and, to borrow from one of the Chuck Norris jokes, these guys don't do pushups as much as they actually push the floor away from them.

The hallmark of the Ernest Grunfeld Era should be all too apparent to those who wish to see.

I remind you that the Wizards bandwagon awaits you and give you fair warning that decorum will be enforced by the trio mentioned above.

In Grunfeld We Trust!!

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 27, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 27, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Ernie is the same guy that drafted Olie "I get Buckets" over Rajon Rondo...Ernie is a middle of the pack GM at best. Let him build the team before we start singing his praises. Even if we give him a pass for last year (which I am not totally convinced we should do), he had many missteps along the way (DeJuan Blair anyone?)...He let Larry hughes walk and replaced him with deshawn stevenson...etc...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

"He let Larry hughes walk and replaced him with deshawn stevenson...etc..."

Actually, he pulled off one the dopest trades ever and replaced Larry with Caron...although everything ended poorly, we went right back to the playoffs

Posted by: BurgwithaU | July 27, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

1) he said it was great to be wanted. To me that says a lot. His initial reaction to being traded to the Wizards caught him off guard, but being wanted by the Wizards meant a lot to him.

Being wanted. Shall I say anymore, enough said, and I think most know what I am referring to.
Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

But to the point I think you are referring to, is anyone considering Chicago not serious about winning for trading Kirk? He's a more proven piece to Chicago than Livingston was to us, but didn't fit into Chicago's plans anymore so they moved him. Did it damage their ability to sign free agents? Do we think LeBron passed on Chicago because he couldn't believe how they treated Kirk Hinrich?

The guy coming off the bench may be every bit as instrumental to a winning team as well as the one who starts.

That is one thing that Livingston overlooked in his desire to be a starter and also a poor reason to have been used by him and bloggers here to eschew the Wizards for another team.

Even though everyone knows that I think the Wizards should have done more to show Livingston that THEY WANTED HIM HERE, I have also stated the Livingston might realize that maybe the right decision was to stay here.

At the same time, he went to a team that's closer to winning than the Wizards. He went to a team that has a better chance to win sooner, a better coach, and also one where he might be able to start. What's the problem with that?

Kirk has more or less said he's fine with his role, but I'm sure if he was honest about it, he's prefer to play starter's minutes. I have no problem with that. I don't want players who are content to play backup roles. I want guys who are pushing to start every day, as long as they don't sulk if they don't get to start.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Seraphin is the best part of the trade, but Hinrich will be a treat to watch. The Wizards rarely get guys that actually maximize their potential. I can't think of anyone other than Antonio Daniels on a roster recently.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 27, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: BurgwithaU | July 27, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

He traded kwame for caron...agreed good move...but the back court wasn't as good with gil and deshawn (hughes was a better waayyy better fit)

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

He traded kwame for caron...agreed good move...but the back court wasn't as good with gil and deshawn (hughes was a better waayyy better fit)

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:31 AM

At $60 million he wasn't a better fit. Don't be dense.

Posted by: 2020doc | July 27, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Hinrich, Yes. Wall, Booker Seraphin, defensive gem??? Let's just wait until they log in a hundred PT before we can proclaim to the world the new and improve defensive team.

Posted by: Dave381 | July 27, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

"That is one thing that Livingston overlooked in his desire to be a starter and also a poor reason to have been used by him and bloggers here to eschew the Wizards for another team."

So wanting to start is a poor reason for leaving one team for another? Wanting to get paid more, and to get more minutes and more consistency of playing time (things that usually go along with starting) are bad things that make you less of a winner?? If I was a coach, I'm not sure I would want someone on my team who was totally satisfied being a backup. Sorry, I've got enough "crazy" already; I'm not buyin' what you're sellin' . . .

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 27, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 2020doc | July 27, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Except he didn't want 60 mil...they were just a few mil short...it was like 30 mil vs. 33 mil...Get your facts straight...Whyu do you think ernie tried to trade for Larry twice after he let him go??

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Dave381 | July 27, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

I think its vastly improved as compared to....jamison? caron?

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Except he didn't want 60 mil...they were just a few mil short...it was like 30 mil vs. 33 mil...Get your facts straight...Whyu do you think ernie tried to trade for Larry twice after he let him go??

Posted by: merajc86

I think Hughes signed a contract for 5 yrs, $65 Mil.
Who knows if the Wizards ever tried to get him back. No rumor was ever confirmed.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 27, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"In Grunfeld We Trust!!"

No offense, but everytime I see this I just want to puke.

Grunfeld really isn't going to be around much longer, as someone said above he's very average.

I've alway been a Hinrich fan, but to me this trade is two years too late. He's a two year rental at best. I think you're going to see the Wiz run a three guard offense, I don't think they are going to have a choice.

I also think Seraphin is going to be a bust and don't get me started on Yi. I emailed Ted as much and he asked me to be patient, but sometimes you just know.

I really don't trust in Grunfeld. Sorry.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 27, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

ah yeah your right...my bad...however, i was correct insaying that they were offering only a few mil less. Hughes said if they matched it, he would have signed. it was only a few mil short

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Quite simply, Ernest wants guys who have a little barroom brawler in them. Hinrich, Seraphin, Booker. Each, upon meeting you, would just as soon give you a roundhouse right as shake your hand! They are tough-minded players who give no quarter and ask for none and, to borrow from one of the Chuck Norris jokes, these guys don't do pushups as much as they actually push the floor away from them.

Posted by: melodious_thunk

LMAO! Let's hope they can mix in a little b-ball skill while they're intimidating the entire league, okay?

Posted by: harrybalz | July 27, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:44 AM"

Actually, I think Hughes said just the opposite (that the Wiz had better give him their best shot from the jump). I don't think he gave them a chance to match.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 27, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

"Ernie is the same guy that drafted Olie "I get Buckets" over Rajon Rondo...Posted by: merajc86"

I'm not going to bother pointing out the flaw in this train of reasoning, other than to note it's a big one...

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

ah yeah your right...my bad...however, i was correct insaying that they were offering only a few mil less. Hughes said if they matched it, he would have signed. it was only a few mil short

Posted by: merajc86

And if Hughes had stayed, people would now be talking about what a mistake it was for EG to sign a guy to a big money contract who is hurt all of the time. I like Hughes a lot, but he was usually only good for 60-65 games every year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Highly possible BUT not yet a given that they will have the same success in the NBA level.

Posted by: Dave381 | July 27, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse


I also think Seraphin is going to be a bust and don't get me started on Yi. I emailed Ted as much and he asked me to be patient, but sometimes you just know.

I really don't trust in Grunfeld. Sorry.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 27, 2010 11:43 AM

You're already complaining and e-mailing when the season hasn't even started? Can you see any farther than the end of your nose? Think longterm, Ray.

Posted by: 2020doc | July 27, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

When Chicago traded Hinrich, I would consider that not quite the same as the scenario with Livingston. Chicago has a obvious purpose for trading Hinrich and it was clear to all.

On the other hand, the Wizards made no overtures to Livingston and I say they should have.

But on a larger scale Chicago has a scar much bigger than the Wizards. Chicago could have easily won at least two more championship had the owner not decided that he could win a championship without his current crew by building a new one.

Thus, Chicago did not do all it should have done to keep Phil and Michael together for continued success. Neither was done, but the owner of Chicago thought he was smarter and we now see how far he has gotten them.

I would not be quick to go to any team where the owner bust's up a championship team.

Do you remember the Big Red Machine in baseball. One of the most prolific teams ever. There downfall was that the Team was busted up by the Owner whom thought he new everything.

Thats the strike that Chicago has in my book. Lebron to Chicago had nothing to do with the way Hinrich was handled.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 27, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Larry, are you slow?

How many times do you have to be shown how faulty your logic is WRT Livinston? The Wizards PUBLICLY stated that they would like Livingston on the Wizards and you don't know what they did privately. Should they have bought one hour of time on ESPN and spent the whole hour professing their undying love for him? Get a grip.

Posted by: gimmedat | July 27, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

doclinkin, you just mentioned Nick Young and "defense" in the same sentence, without saying how horrible he is.

Bro, are you blind? Or does he share his buds with you???

Nick is clearly on his way out after this year. Dude has zero passion, acts like a shy 12 year old who just walked in on his sister changing whenever he talks and cant ever put it together consistently to make him worthwhile.

Jeez, reality check please. We are still look at 28-35 wins this year because we have NOTHING at the 3 and NOTHING at the 5 spot.

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | July 27, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

At $60 million he wasn't a better fit. Don't be dense.

Posted by: 2020doc | July 27, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

i think it was 60 or even 70 mil to go to CLE. however, the wizards have been looking for a guy to step into that 2 guard role effectively since Larry left. maybe spending less money with AJ woulda been a better idea given his departure via trade coupled with AB's (knock on wood)emergence. We still don't know if we have an adequate 2 guard so, i dunno how larry wasn't the right fit if we haven't found a guy who fit as well as he did, since he left.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 27, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey Larry...I hate to see you duck being called out...but you never answered me. You challenged that Nick and JaVale has fundamental/IQ issues...I even showed you clips of JaVale's issues. Just wanted your thoughts.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2009/11/miller-and-butler-hurting-youn.html?wprss=wizardsinsider

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2009/10/young-lost-in-the-shuffle.html

There you go Larry. Nick Young...a third year veteran can't remember the basics. JaVale is a great athlete without the fundamentals. It is what it is...do I want them to improve? Sure...but expecting 20/10 from him is setting him up to fail.

Reporters don't lie Larry...remember?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

You're already complaining and e-mailing when the season hasn't even started? Can you see any farther than the end of your nose? Think longterm, Ray.

Posted by: 2020doc | July 27, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Sorry to say it Ray, but I agree with you.

2020doc,

Some of don't need to wait till the season starts to understand some players just aren't that good.

I know the front office and Ernie wants you to buy into it and when it doesn't work out again who will Ernie have to blame this time?

I guess he'll tell us Ted wouldn't let him go out and sign any big time free agent?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 27, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

some of us don't...

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 27, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"Five GMs that could be the next to get the axe" Ernie Grunfeld among them of-course.
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/23182298

Let us watch and wait to see how Ernie re-builds from the ashes of his failed 7 years in Washington. Grunfeld is on a short lease and deservedly so.

Posted by: closg | July 27, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

We still don't know if we have an adequate 2 guard so, i dunno how larry wasn't the right fit if we haven't found a guy who fit as well as he did, since he left.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 27, 2010 12:23 PM

Hughes wasn't worth that kind of money given his injury history and that fact isn't changed by the Wizards not finding a replacement of his caliber after all these years. Hughes played well with Arenas but history has confirmed that Cleveland blew it when they inked him to that deal.

Posted by: gimmedat | July 27, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Let us watch and wait to see how Ernie re-builds from the ashes of his failed 7 years in Washington. Grunfeld is on a short lease and deservedly so.

Posted by: closg | July 27, 2010 12:32 PM

Ernie has failed 7 years in Washington?

Posted by: gimmedat | July 27, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Let us watch and wait to see how Ernie re-builds from the ashes of his failed 7 years in Washington. Grunfeld is on a short lease and deservedly so.

7 years of failure now? Usually when people talk about Grunfeld...they say we've been to the lottery for 2 straight years. This is a first. People are off their meds today! First Hughes wanted $33 mil and we offered $30. Over a 5 year deal...that's less than a million a year.

Doubt that ever happens on a marquee FA. Especially considering he got over 60.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

@SDMDTSU,

To my point which was obvious but not to you, it was stated that if Nick Young can't remember plays why isn't he off the team in the same bus that he came in on, McGee as well.

It is obvious that I don't believe they lack basic BBall intellect to perform the most basic tasks on the floor.

I went on to say that it has to be something more than just that.

When Caron Butler eschewed a play at the end of the game last year to take it upon himself and failed, did he get labelled as not remembering the play???

No he did not.

When a veteran misses an assignment, does he get labeled as not having basic BBall intellect.

It is easier to say Nick Young can't remember a play rather than Nick Young is ignoring your gameplan and what you want him to do on the court.

I guarantee you, even those comments have been made, that it isn't really the case.

And think about this real hard.

You ever thought that McGee might be so damn quick, that it appears that he is releasing too early because he is extremely gifted. Think about it that way would you.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 27, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

When Caron Butler eschewed a play at the end of the game last year to take it upon himself and failed, did he get labelled as not remembering the play???

No. He pretty much said he did what he wanted to do. And his IQ was questioned...pump faking in situations where he shouldn't. You can't compare his IQ to Nick Young. BUTLER HAS SHOWN AN ABILITY to do the basics. Veterans earn the right to freelance. That's common sense. When it doesn't work...you get criticized. Like Caron did.

When a veteran misses an assignment, does he get labeled as not having basic BBall intellect. It is easier to say Nick Young can't remember a play rather than Nick Young is ignoring your gameplan and what you want him to do on the court. I guarantee you, even those comments have been made, that it isn't really the case.

Missing an assignment and ignoring them are two different things. Not knowing a play and ignoring a game plan...both are unacceptable. Larry. NICK YOUNG made those comments. More than once.

You ever thought that McGee might be so damn quick, that it appears that he is releasing too early because he is extremely gifted. Think about it that way would you.

Yes, I need to think along the lines that McGee is so gifted that people go through him. Or we can't even see the contact.

You are beyond delusional.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

@merajc86,

Try to be in possession of at least a few facts before posting.

@Ray

Do all within your power to hold your queasy stomach at bay until the day of our championship parade. It's only fair that you be stuck at home while we celebrate wildly. As for your criticisms, be sure and get back to me around the midpoint of the upcoming season. This Wizards team is going to surprise a lot of people.

@closg,

Are you insane? You've sunk to a new low with your "7 years of failure".

To your nearly-moot point, just about every GM is on a short leash (our Ernest Grunfeld being the notable exception of course). To wit: I'm willing to wager a rather large sum of money that former Portland GM Kevin Pritchard wasn't on many lists of "GMs on The Hot Seat" last year, but where is he now? Rattling a tin cup and scouring the classifieds for employment, that's where!

Give way, naysayers, and watch Ernest Grunfeld continue molding this team into a winner, unimpeded by the undue meddling of the past.

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 27, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Not necessarily...they could have won more with hughes...there was great chemistry in the back court...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

When Chicago traded Hinrich, I would consider that not quite the same as the scenario with Livingston. Chicago has a obvious purpose for trading Hinrich and it was clear to all.

On the other hand, the Wizards made no overtures to Livingston and I say they should have.
Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

Washington had obvious purpose in not retaining Livingston. They had Wall, Arenas, and Hinrich. Livingston had obvious purpose, he wanted to play somewhere with more opportunity.

With respect Larry, you have gone so far around the bend with this it's ridiculous. The Wizards didn't mistreat Shaun. They brought him in, they gave him a good shot. He gave them good effort. Both parties expressed some in interest in him returning, both parties found alternatives they liked better. Both parties moved on. You should, too.

Blowing sunshine up his rear or shedding crocodile tears for his departure wouldn't help the perception of the Wizards. Failing to do so doesn't hurt them either. Just like with Hinrich, when a better option comes in (Rose), everyone knows that average players like Livingston are likely to get moved or be let go.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 27, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Even though the numbers were off, the point still stands. Grunfeld had one of the best back courts in the NBA and he let him go for a few million dollars. The combo of gil and hughes was dynamic. Stevenson, not so much.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"You ever thought that McGee might be so damn quick, that it appears that he is releasing too early because he is extremely gifted."

No, I have seen numerous times that McGee headed down court before his teammates got the rebounds (or sometimes, the opponents ended up getting it because he wasn't in position).

It is not "it appears that he is releasing too early," he did release too early, and "appears" that he is faster than he is running down the court.

Not saying McGee isn’t fast for a big man, but he does have a bad habit of releasing early. The same as he is prone to pump fakes, even though there is no denying that he is legit 7 feet and a good jumper.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 27, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

The problem with either Gil or Hinrich playing 2 is neither of them is tall. Hinrich is listed at 6'3", and even he said that he preferred to play PG; part of the equation why Bulls parted way with him, so they can get bigger at SG.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 27, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Even though the numbers were off, the point still stands. Grunfeld had one of the best back courts in the NBA and he let him go for a few million dollars. The combo of gil and hughes was dynamic. Stevenson, not so much.

Posted by: merajc86

Why aren't you blaming Hughes for leaving such a great back court over just a few million bucks? Ahh, right because it's all about EG. Even though Hughes' career starting trending downward once he left for Cleveland.

I hated Stevenson, but in '05/'06 (first year with Cleveland), Hughes averaged 15.6 / 4.5 / 3.6 for $10M that season. In '06/'07 (first year with DC) DeShawn 11.2 / 2.6 /2.7, but for $900K.

To be more accurate, Caron was brought in to replace Hughes and averaged 17 / 6 / 2 in 05/06 for $2M.

So if you want to do an apples to apples comparison, really you want to compare the SG / SF combos. Which is better Caron / DeShawn or Hughes / (Jared Jeffries and Jarvis Hayes)? Looks pretty much like a wash to me. When Butler re-signed, he re-signed for about $20-25M less than Hughes, and trended upward until this past season, instead of downward like Hughes.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse


"The news comes as major blow to the Wizards, who were confident they could re-sign Hughes. The Wizards eventually offered up to six years, $70 million, a source within the team told ESPN.com, but it wasn't enough to keep Hughes in D.C.."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2103569

Wasn't there some report at the time about Hughes being offended at Ernie's first offer?

Posted by: bobabuie | July 27, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

A source with knowledge of the negotiations said the Wizards offered Hughes a six-year deal worth $54 million ($9 million per year) when the free agency period began on July 1. Sources close to Hughes said he was upset by the initial offer, which was gradually increased until the team finally reached a ceiling of $72 million over six years ($12 million per year), which is more than Arenas makes. Wechsler told the Wizards on Thursday that that wasn't enough to retain Hughes's services.

For the Wizards to offer Hughes similar compensation over six years, it would factor out to a six-year deal between $78 million and $84 million, which would've made him the highest-paid player on the roster.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/08/AR2005070801182.html

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

About Larry Hughes: his last season in Washington was definitely better than anything he's done since. I'm not sure what the reasons for his decline might be. He's had some injury problems, and I'm sure some of those teams (Cle, Chi, NY) were a poor fit, but his scoring average since he left is a shade under 12 points. He was averaging 22 in his last year in Washington. He's coming up on his 13th season in the NBA so I don't know how much of the fall-off last year was just aging.

It may be that he was a great combo with Arenas and if they'd stayed together he'd have been the All-Star that people once predicted. It may also be that he would have followed roughly the same curve of declining production and missed time due to injuries that we see now.

You never know. One thing we can be sure about: he got his paycheck.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

He didn't replace LH. They could have obtained both. Kwame was traded for Caron. We could have still had caron at the 3 and hughes at the 2. Also, the onus is always on the team to obtain the player, not vice versa. With hughes and arenas, we went to the 2nd round of the playoffs (beating chicago the first go around). At the end of the day, EG blundered in getting LH back when they were always willing to pay that much

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

One issue was the type of offense he played in. He was always in half court sets that never utilized his talents. Gil and Larry complimented each other quite well...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

At the end of the day, EG blundered in getting LH back when they were always willing to pay that much

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 2:25 PM

Hughes took less money ($11M/yr vs. $12M/yr) and it's Grunfeld's blunder? Anything to blame EG! (I like it too sometimes)

Posted by: bobabuie | July 27, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Oops! Larry's contract w Clev was for 5 years. Less money overall than what the Wiz offered but more per year.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 27, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

He didn't replace LH. They could have obtained both. Kwame was traded for Caron. We could have still had caron at the 3 and hughes at the 2. Also, the onus is always on the team to obtain the player, not vice versa. With hughes and arenas, we went to the 2nd round of the playoffs (beating chicago the first go around). At the end of the day, EG blundered in getting LH back when they were always willing to pay that much

Posted by: merajc86

Not enough cap space to keep Arenas, AJ, Caron and Hughes.

And "the onus is on the team" is pure b.s. We just saw Bosh, Wade and LeBron take less than they could have to sign together. Gil took less to make sure they kept AJ (even though we might have been better off if he hadn't).

The rest of it is just 'might have' and 'could have'. If Larry had continued playing at a high level when he left, I might agree, but it's tough to make a legit case for it being a blunder when his numbers dropped precipitously the very next season.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

The moral of the story is NEVER TIE UP OVER $100 MILLION IN YOUR BACKCOURT.

It doesn't work. Ever.

Hughes left because he wanted to. His choice.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

As you said before, players take less money all the time. If LA can fit Pau, Odom, Kobe or Miami can fit Wade/Bosh/Lebron, you can make those 4 work.

The difference between those cases and this case was Larry wanted to come back. He was happy here. He was just not happy with the initial offer (and they kept on low balling the market price for him until he was close to leaving). He gave us the first move and EG blew it.

With Cleveland, LH was a terrible fit. He just did not fit in well with LeBron and Mike Brown's idiot offense.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Only in pro sports can a guy be offended at an INITIAL offer that more than doubles his old salary. Ernie's got some nerve.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 27, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

He didn't replace LH. They could have obtained both.

They did. Caron and DeShawn pretty much equaled Caron and Larry's production for all 5-6 years...considering Larry did nothing. I bet DeShawn's numbers aren't much different LOL

4 20 point guys that need the ball doesn't work either.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Larry's production in our offense would have been much better than in Mike Brown (or any other) half court offense...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

@meraj,

Yeah, EG blew it by not signing LH to what quickly became one of the worst contracts in the NBA (can you hear the dripping sarcasm?). He may have lucked out of it, but thank god he did and he immediately rectified the situation with the Caron for Kwame trade. You picked a bad example there. There are other contracts and a pick or two that would have been better. But, I'll say it again no GM bats .1000.

The Worst Contracts In The NBA:

2. Larry Hughes, Cleveland Cavaliers
Contract Remaining: 3 years, $38.5 million
Analysis: Hughes was pegged as the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan after his career year in Washington, and that is why this contract ranks so high on this list. The Cavs made a mistake with this choice, and it will likely prevent LeBron from ever reaching his full potential while Hughes is on the team. In fact, the poor choice made with Hughes might lead to LeBron eventually leaving the Cavs, since his huge salary cap number along with big Z's contract will likely keep Cleveland from properly fixing the roster problems that have become so glaringly apparent during this postseason.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

This may be my personal belief, but as I said before, I think his production in our offense would have justified his contract. In our offense, he was an all star player (and first team all defense). He didn't fit well in Cleveland (Ferry is a pretty bad GM as is Mike Brown an offensive coach).

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

@meraj,

Yeah, EG blew it by not signing LH to what quickly became one of the worst contracts in the NBA (can you hear the dripping sarcasm?). EG may have lucked out of it, but thank god he did and he immediately rectified the situation with the Caron for Kwame trade. You picked a bad example there. There are other contracts and a pick or two that would have been better. But, I'll say it again no GM bats .1000.

And, LH's failures were more of a product of one monster year (the proverbial career year when contract is up and subsequent production decline) and his inability to stay healthy, which was already well chronicled before he had his one injury free season, than being a bad fit in Cleveland.

The subsequent talk of the Wiz re-acquiring LH had more to do with getting a solid veteran player with an expiring contract. It was no signal or admission of wanting a redo.

The Worst Contracts In The NBA:

2. Larry Hughes, Cleveland Cavaliers
Contract Remaining: 3 years, $38.5 million
Analysis: Hughes was pegged as the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan after his career year in Washington, and that is why this contract ranks so high on this list. The Cavs made a mistake with this choice, and it will likely prevent LeBron from ever reaching his full potential while Hughes is on the team. In fact, the poor choice made with Hughes might lead to LeBron eventually leaving the Cavs, since his huge salary cap number along with big Z's contract will likely keep Cleveland from properly fixing the roster problems that have become so glaringly apparent during this postseason.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

As you said before, players take less money all the time. If LA can fit Pau, Odom, Kobe or Miami can fit Wade/Bosh/Lebron, you can make those 4 work.
Posted by: merajc86

I love the logical disconnect between "Players take less money all the time....you can make those 4 work." and skipping over the part where Larry could have taken less money to stay and chose not to.

The difference between those cases and this case was Larry wanted to come back. He was happy here. He was just not happy with the initial offer (and they kept on low balling the market price for him until he was close to leaving). He gave us the first move and EG blew it.

Or, as evidenced by how the rest of Larry's career is going, EG correctly assessed that he wasn't worth what Cleveland was offering.

With Cleveland, LH was a terrible fit. He just did not fit in well with LeBron and Mike Brown's idiot offense.

I also love how none of this is on Larry Hughes. "EG didn't offer enough" "The offense was wrong for him" "The dog ate his contract."

Larry went for the biggest contract he could get and EG didn't think he was worth it. Nothing that Larry has done since proves the EG was wrong about this one.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse


Quite simply, Ernest wants guys who have a little barroom brawler in them. Hinrich, Seraphin, Booker. Each, upon meeting you, would just as soon give you a roundhouse right as shake your hand! They are tough-minded players who give no quarter and ask for none and, to borrow from one of the Chuck Norris jokes, these guys don't do pushups as much as they actually push the floor away from them.

Posted by: melodious_thunk

if you're not careful you're going to get everybody all fired up about this season, thunk. i don't think the wizards are going to be very good since there are just too many unknowns and too much youth, but the "trio" might be baby steps in the right direction though. hinrich, in particular, is a definite plus.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 27, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Larry's production in our offense would have been much better than in Mike Brown (or any other) half court offense...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Would have been? Or we he have been an injury problem AGAIN? What if his knee goes out? You don't know what he WOULD have done. People play real different when they get that big money.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

This may be my personal belief, but as I said before, I think his production in our offense would have justified his contract. In our offense, he was an all star player (and first team all defense). He didn't fit well in Cleveland (Ferry is a pretty bad GM as is Mike Brown an offensive coach).

Posted by: merajc86

Let's just assume this highly unlikely fantasy is true. Then it was a very stupid decision by LARRY HUGHES to eschew a team he supposedly wanted to come back to and was a great fit for over a couple of million dollars or an initial contract offer that offended him (contract negotiations never start with low ball offers do they? Nah). He got what he wanted and it was an awful career decision for him. Instead of some small NBA legacy at his career year pace of play (assuming the fantasy again), he got nothing. No ring, no kudos, no stats, nothing...all for a couple of million out of 70 million. His legacy now is as one of the worst contracts in the NBA and a failure. Bravo LH!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

That's like saying the Wizards low-balled Hughes...so he went to Cleveland after they settled on him after Ray Allen and Michael Redd.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

But you are missing the point...I am talking about Ernie Grunfeld. Ernie did not succeed in getting a player to come back to his team (even though he did want to come back). In our team, he was first team all defense AND an all star. Also, we achieved something we have not since...we were bale to go to the 2nd round of the playoffs. We have not been able to since...

Look at it this way (LH perspective)...He is a free agent. Team are pursuing him and am sure got a feel for his value. He want to come back to Washington. I am sure they got a feel for his value as well. So what do they do? They offer him 15 million dollars less then what his value is. When he rejected that offer (who wouldn't?) and about to sign his 70 mil, then Washington offers up the bigger contract...

Also, i don't think it's pure fantasy. It's pretty obvious that some players fit in one type of offense better then others. You would not be maximizing Steve Nash's ability if he had to play in a half court offense/ defense. I wouldn't say he would struggle, but he wouldn't have attained MVP status if not for the specific offense he was in...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

The truth is LH had a career contract year and likely would have encountered the same injury bug he had before that year again while under contract with the Wiz. Then the Wiz would have been stuck with a contract as bad or worse than the current GA contract and we would not have had the cap room for the Caron deal and others to make the playoffs the following 3 years after his departure. At least GA has shown he can still put up 22 and 8 when not suspended. Such a silly debate really.

And, to the 7 yrs of bad GM'ing comment earlier, give me a break! 4 out of 7 years EG has taken this franchise to the playoffs. A franchise that has been as bad as it gets in all of sports for 30 years. If not for GA's knee injuries, you are very likely looking at 6 out of 7 years of making the playoffs - and that is not fantastical to say. Alas, we ran into the Curse Le Boulez and the injury bug struck again, but, perhaps, this allows EG to rebuild with a core of players more capable of being true contenders and an owner smart enough to know when to get out of the way.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Ernie did not succeed in getting a player to come back to his team (even though he did want to come back).
Posted by: merajc86

Look at it from Ernie's perspective....you want a player back, but not at an inflated price which also blows apart your salary structure, so you offer the player what he's actually worth, which he declines because another team (which has a worse habit of overpaying players than the Wizards) offers him too much. You stretch your offer as much as you feel you can, but you don't feel you can offer maximum dollars to a player you know will only play 65 games a year.

People give EG crap all the time for over paying to keep players. And then people give him crap the one big time he doesn't over pay. Can't win for losing.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

But he was willing to pay that price the entire time...He just low balled him from the get go compared to the market price

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

But he was willing to pay that price the entire time...He just low balled him from the get go compared to the market price

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

It's called a negotiation. Make an offer, go see what you're worth. Oh they'll give you that? Then we'll give you this.

You can't low-ball someone until the value is set. (Which was done by Cleveland)

Bet you Larry wishes he would've stayed in Washington now doesn't he?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

@ Meraj,

What is pretty obvious is that EG felt LH was not worth that amount of money and eventually through whatever pressures we don't know about (perhaps Abe, fans??), he caved in somewhat. I, at the time, couldn't believe Cleveland was willing to part with that kind of money for such an injury riddled, career year player. The whole keeping LJ happy fiasco has screwed with that franchise on multiple occasions now and he left anyway! Regardless, the end result benefited us and not LH. Sorry dude, his frail body was not going to be better just bc he was a better "fit" here.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

In our team, he was first team all defense AND an all star

When was Hughes an All-Star?

Posted by: djnnnou | July 27, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

But he was willing to pay that price the entire time...He just low balled him from the get go compared to the market price

Posted by: merajc86

A) how do you know that?
B) even if true, it's called negotiation
C) EG's final offer was still less per year than Cleveland's offer
D) Did Larry live up to the value of that contract at any of his stops? Even if you want to lay all of the blame for his offensive production on Mike Brown, did he make the all-defensive team any year in Cleveland?

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

In our team, he was first team all defense AND an all star

When was Hughes an All-Star?

Posted by: djnnnou | July 27, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

He wasn't. It's called revisionist history. I'm sure it'll change to "He played on an all-star level!" or "He would've been an All-Star if he didn't get hurt."

Which pretty much sums it all up right there.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse


But you are missing the point...I am talking about Ernie Grunfeld. Ernie did not succeed in getting a player to come back to his team (even though he did want to come back).

Posted by: merajc86

what stopped larry from coming back? the links provided above indicated that ernie offered him $72 million, which is more than what he signed for with cleveland. don't you see that larry ultimately left because he "wanted" to? he left money on the table and that should tell you everything you need to know.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 27, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Look at it from Ernie's perspective....you want a player back, but not at an inflated price which also blows apart your salary structure, so you offer the player what he's actually worth, which he declines because another team (which has a worse habit of overpaying players than the Wizards) offers him too much. You stretch your offer as much as you feel you can, but you don't feel you can offer maximum dollars to a player you know will only play 65 games a year.

People give EG crap all the time for over paying to keep players. And then people give him crap the one big time he doesn't over pay. Can't win for losing.

Posted by: ts35

Bingo!!! Nice post!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

The only truth in your argument is that EG's initial offer was a low ball offer (thank god - for once in pro sports) bc he did not place a high premium on what he saw in LH for the length of that contract. The only thing that made it offensive to LH was Cleveland's desperation to placate LJ by completely overpaying for LH's services. Don't remember a single other team interested in LH at the time, which is very telling unto itself. So, LH got lucky in that regard and so did the Wiz and EG in the end.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

They wanted me to sacrifice things so we could win. In this system, there is more movement and draw and kicks. It was a good run. We had 50-plus wins, made the finals and I learned from it. I was unhappy, though, and wasn’t myself. I’d rather enjoy the game than all that.

Larry Hughes after the trade from Cleveland to Chicago.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 27, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Ah yeah, he got injured during the year i thought he made the play offs. I was remembering the all star cake Pollin had for Gil and Jamison and Hughes was also part of that ceremony (due to Pollin saying he SHOULD'VE been an all star)...my bad...

And I can see I have been shot down in my beliefs...I still do think LH could have succeeded in the Wiz offense (unlike in other places)...but also, good point about his injury concerns...I know when to bow down in an argument and that I shall do concerning LH

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

People give EG crap all the time for over paying to keep players. And then people give him crap the one big time he doesn't over pay. Can't win for losing.

Posted by: ts35

How much credit should he get for offering LH $72mill?? Basically he tried to underpay him (mistake) then overpay(mistake) and luckily two wrongs made it right for us as the Cavs had lost their minds. LH cant shoot, was never going to be worth all that $$$$

Posted by: divi3 | July 27, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

How did we get on Larry Hughes?

Posted by: thecomedian1 | July 27, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

LH's made the all defensive team in Washington bc he was allowed to do nothing but play the passing lanes and take chances in our all out run and gun system under EJ. I believe he lead the league in steals that season (thus making the defensive team by default really), but he was just ok as a one on one defender. We were still near the bottom as a team defensively as we were every year under EJ. Which begs the question, why did LH not excel at least defensively in Cleveland? They were a superior defensive team. The fact is LH was a fraud that couldn't live up to that contract here or anywhere else regardless of whether he was healthy or not. He got what he wanted and in the end he was exposed as the one hit wonder he was, is, and will forever be.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Mikhail Torrance Signs In Israel With Powerhouse Maccabi Tel Aviv

The 6-foot-5 point guard was seemingly on his way to being drafted in June's NBA Draft after solid showings at the Portsmouth Invitational and then the NBA Pre-Draft Camp in Chicago as he was ranked in the top 50 prospects by both ESPN's Chad Ford as well as DraftExpress. Sixty players heard their name called that night, though, and none of them were named Mikhail Torrance - despite a draft class that had very few NBA prospects at the point guard position and none with Torrance's mix of size, versatility and athletic ability.

Torrance got kind of screwed this summer. Nice to see him get a job with a good overseas team.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 27, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Basically he tried to underpay him (mistake) then overpay(mistake).

Posted by: divi3

I'll give you a moment to think about that one.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Torrance got kind of screwed this summer. Nice to see him get a job with a good overseas team.

Posted by: djnnnou

He may be one of those who's better off doing that than being parked at the end of a bench or in the D-League. Teams (most) pay more attention to players overseas than they used to. So especially if he plays well, he'll make some cash and also boost his stock back home.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

How much credit should he get for offering LH $72mill?? Basically he tried to underpay him (mistake) then overpay(mistake) and luckily two wrongs made it right for us as the Cavs had lost their minds. LH cant shoot, was never going to be worth all that $$$$

Posted by: divi3

agree $72 million is too much. $54 million is spot on, imo, given his undeniable chemistry with arenas.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 27, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

And I can see I have been shot down in my beliefs...I still do think LH could have succeeded in the Wiz offense (unlike in other places)...but also, good point about his injury concerns...I know when to bow down in an argument and that I shall do concerning LH

Posted by: merajc86

Just to be clear, all we're arguing about is whether EG made a mistake in not offering him more to stay. I loved the LH / GA back court and it would have been nice to keep them together, because Larry seemed to be a steadying influence on Gil. But for as good a player as he was, Larry was too injury prone to pay that big of a contract, imo. I think Cleveland paid him way too much.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

@larry in clinton: good post abt owners meddling in Chi, Cincy and elsewhere!


Posted by: dcjazzman | July 27, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Don't think he was a fraud...his last two years with us went pretty well. Excellent rebounder, good with assists good with steals. Averaged 18 and 22 respectively in terms of points.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Gotcha and definitely understandable

Posted by: merajc86 | July 27, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"How much credit should he get for offering LH $72mill?? Basically he tried to underpay him (mistake) then overpay(mistake) and luckily two wrongs made it right for us as the Cavs had lost their minds. LH cant shoot, was never going to be worth all that $$$$"

How the hell is it a mistake to low ball a guy that was not even worth that offer in the end??? You care to explain that one.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

If I recall correctly, Gilbert and Kirk have a history beyond the game winning shot detailed in this post.

Didn't Gil rip on Kirk after Gil was cut from Team USA a few summers ago?

Posted by: SportzWiz | July 27, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Brad Miller might be doing more work than he had hoped...according to some.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5413279

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 27, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

How the hell is it a mistake to low ball a guy that was not even worth that offer in the end??? You care to explain that one.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 4:42 PM

I mean that if he really wanted to keep him, then he made a mistake with an offer that (allegedly) pushed the player away. A mistake he apparently compounded by then offering him way over his value. IMO, it looks like EG was saved by the Cavs making even bigger miscalculations. I dont see any GM savvy from our side in that almost-debacle....EG wanted Larry and then luckily didnt get him despite a mega-offer

Posted by: divi3 | July 27, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Whoa...let's get that whole quote from Larry being traded from Cleveland.

“I play to enjoy myself, some people take this the wrong way, but winning a championship is not what I base everything on. I was given an opportunity to play basketball, travel around and have fun doing it and that’s what I want to do. I wouldn’t take being unhappy and not being myself and winning.

I would rather enjoy myself with 18,000-20,000 people watching the game and the people sending fan mail and those things and be happy…I didn’t come here to play the point guard, that’s just it. I came here to run the wing, just like he was running the other wing. I was asked to sacrifice for the team to win and for everybody, I guess, get paid. That is what was told to me and I wasn’t happy with that.”

- Larry Hughes

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Brad Miller might be doing more work than he had hoped...according to some.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5413279

Posted by: DC_MAN88

All of which still has zero bearing on how foolish it would have been for the Wiz to sign him, and still gives no indication that he had any interest in playing here.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Every player in the NBA is good on a certain level obviously. What makes you a fraud is if you get overpaid or push to get more money that in the end you weren't nearly worth especially if it is based on a contract career year. His production after that season wasn't worth $2 million per let alone $12 million or whatever his average was. I believe he was paid for the previous seasons. Hence, LH was a fraud as a player.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 27, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I mean that if he really wanted to keep him, then he made a mistake with an offer that (allegedly) pushed the player away. A mistake he apparently compounded by then offering him way over his value. IMO, it looks like EG was saved by the Cavs making even bigger miscalculations. I dont see any GM savvy from our side in that almost-debacle....EG wanted Larry and then luckily didnt get him despite a mega-offer

Posted by: divi3

Because you've already made up your mind that if EG did it, it must be a mistake.

You've just created a loop for yourself where if EG offered him his value, it's a mistake because it hurt Larry's feelings, but if he offered him above his value to mollify Larry, it's a mistake because he's overpaying. How does EG show any 'savvy' in that scenario in your view? $63M? Clearly that wasn't going to get it done.

Larry obviously wanted a much larger contract than the Wiz were willing to pay. EG upped his offer to try to keep a player who had demonstrated some value to the Wiz, but didn't go so crazy as to match Cleveland's offer. And then shortly thereafter, rooked the Lakers out of a legitimate replacement. Is the LH situation a huge win for EG?

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Is the LH situation a huge win for EG? No, not really. But it wasn't a mistake.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm not so sure the Larry Hughes contract stuff is a great example of Grunfeld's problems as much as a league wide issue and a snapshot of the team's ownership at the time.

Remeber taht LH was 'insulted' by the wizard's initial offer, an offer most people would consider fair when you look at LH in the context of age, complete play and injuries. Now, all these players like to come out and say, 'this is a business, i need to treat it like a business' which is a bunch of BS cause they don't know what business means. It typically means, not becoming emotional or insulted when receiving an initial offering. A start point for negotiations. I don't blame Grunfeld for LH being a molly.

Nor the fact that Cleveland made a less rational offer for LH hughes at the behest of their own ruling molly.

And I can't be certain that the aging MR Pollin didn't demand that the team make every attempt to keep LH after negotiations went ridiculously south.

The point is that there are so many uncertainties and circumstances in the mix that it doesn't make the best case that EG is good or EG is bad.

I think the biggest problem with regards to maintaining a rational pay structure in the NBA is that there are probably too many teams. Which means the demand for quality players can't be met every season. When you compound that with a salary cap you have teams that wind up over-paying and handcuffing themselves with 2nd or third tier players.

Rational pay structures are key to sustaining success in the NBA.

Posted by: gconrads | July 27, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

"Torrance got kind of screwed this summer. Nice to see him get a job with a good overseas team.Posted by: djnnnou"

Apparently he wasn't drafted because of concerns about an ailment known colloquially as 'athletic heart', or athletic bradycardia. It's common, all right, but maybe there was some indication that it might be something more serious, like a cardiomyopathy. Hard to tell. The athlete downplays it, of course, but that's not always reliable.

He knew about it all last season and was cleared to play at Alabama.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

"Kurt" or "Kirk" needs to know that he's here because EG isn't the sharpest knife in the draw but smart enough to take a player that is an upgrade at backup PG. He WILL NOT replace Gil and I'm not all that excited YET! Let's see what he does on the floor. I never liked the MM trade and it's clear now that it wasn't a good one. We will end up with NOTHING for pick #5.

Kirk is in a better siuation to get more playing time, he is in a better city than the windy one and he is a veteran player that can provide some leadership. I really hope he does well.

Posted by: zack5 | July 27, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

"We will end up with NOTHING for pick #5."

Yep, you can write that one down as a loss. Then again, to this point, Minnesota hasn't gotten anything out of it, either. Just not a shining moment in draft history.

Try looking at it this way: we were bad enough that we got lucky enough to draft John Wall instead of having to decide between somebody like Epke Udoh and Greg Monroe. Maybe the trade contributed something to that.

Trading the number 5 won't go down as an all-time howler like Kwame Brown or Mike Olowokandi, but there are folks around here who will resent it for the rest of their natural blogging lives (which for the sake of our collective sanity, let them be short).


Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

"You've just created a loop for yourself where if EG offered him his value, it's a mistake because it hurt Larry's feelings, but if he offered him above his value to mollify Larry, it's a mistake because he's overpaying. How does EG show any 'savvy' in that scenario in your view? $63M? Clearly that wasn't going to get it done."

Should we call that 'the Larry Loop'?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

People give EG crap all the time for over paying to keep players. And then people give him crap the one big time he doesn't over pay. Can't win for losing.

Posted by: ts35

The reson I give him crap is because of the losing.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 27, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

The reson I give him crap is because of the losing.

Posted by: bulletsfan78

And the reason you're full of crap is because you ignore the winning.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

And the reason you're full of crap is because you ignore the winning.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

You can tell by my screen name I don't ignore the winning...the only problem is they haven't won anything since 1978.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 27, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

"I think the biggest problem with regards to maintaining a rational pay structure in the NBA is that there are probably too many teams. Which means the demand for quality players can't be met every season. When you compound that with a salary cap you have teams that wind up over-paying and handcuffing themselves with 2nd or third tier players."

Well, I'd be surprised if David Stern isn't already planning to expand into Mexico and eventually Europe. Wherever's there's cash.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

"ou can tell by my screen name I don't ignore the winning...the only problem is they haven't won anything since 1978.
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Thanks for clarifying that. I thought it meant 78RPM.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

"You've just created a loop for yourself where if EG offered him his value, it's a mistake because it hurt Larry's feelings, but if he offered him above his value to mollify Larry, it's a mistake because he's overpaying. How does EG show any 'savvy' in that scenario in your view? $63M? Clearly that wasn't going to get it done."

No loops. I'm looking at it purely from what EGs objectives were and not whether Larry was worth X amount of dollars. EG clearly wanted to keep Larry and (thankfully) wasn't able to do it despite eventually offering him an absurdly high offer.

Basically if EG had his way, LH would have signed a giant contract here (that last offer).

So I really dont see where the fact he wasnt able to sign Hughes is a good example of his acumen. Rather we lucked out the Cavs overvalued LH even more than we did.

Posted by: divi3 | July 27, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

"All of which still has zero bearing on how foolish it would have been for the Wiz to sign him, and still gives no indication that he had any interest in playing here.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse "

A little touchy aren't we?

Foolish is not doing anything to help the bigs on the team develop into true bigs. Whether or not Miller would have signed here has nothing to do with management being proactive in trying to get a solid veteran at the 5 spot to help coach up the young bigs.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 27, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Stop all the negativity for the moment. I just found an original copy of Nils Lofgren's "Bullets Fever" in mint condition. I'm now the proud owner. Have been looking ever since I made the mistake of not buying it on first release at age 16! Hmm, maybe the drought is over, We're back to '78! Catch Nils at the Birchmere over labor day. I call it out for him to play.

Re: Hughes - I waved a dollar bill at larry from the stands that next season. Life is not all about money. Great negotiation Ernie! Larry held out based on poorly founded pride and for money, and look what he got. Similarly, look at the joke that became Jared Jeffries. Success and happiness is harder to measure than counting dollars. Good riddance to both based on their pride and their agents. Stevenson's years here were not all bad, and he performed great in a few playoff games, which gave some fan excitement at the time. Loved the comeback mohawk vs Cleveland. It inspired me to get one myself, but I didn't have enough hair left up top to do it. Yes, he flopped towards the end, but the team was built to allow for a stronger SF, weaker scoring SG. So what. Not every team is top notch at every position.

Finally, I met Stevenson on his very first introduction by the Wizards (planholder dinner with Caron and Grunfeld that summer). Very clearly remember he was brought here for defense, not high scoring. Check old box scores to recall that Stevenson gave us some good effort.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 27, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

"I'll call it out for him to play (Bullet's Fever) at the concert".

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 27, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse


To your nearly-moot point, just about every GM is on a short leash (our Ernest Grunfeld being the notable exception of course). To wit: I'm willing to wager a rather large sum of money that former Portland GM Kevin Pritchard wasn't on many lists of "GMs on The Hot Seat" last year, but where is he now? Rattling a tin cup and scouring the classifieds for employment, that's where!

Posted by: melodious_thunk

Don't kid yourself, melodious. If this team doesn't look like it's moving forward by season's end, your boy 'Ernest' is out. Leonsis is nobody's fool.

Posted by: and_1 | July 27, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Over The NBA Maximum, The Thunder Must Make a Cut

OKC to waive G-F Kyle Weaver before Aug. 1 to keep from guaranteeing contract for next season, source tells Y! Maccabi already offered deal. SpearsNBAYahoo

I know the Wizards are looking for a shooter, but Weaver has a very nice skill set. He was a legit point forward in college, and could turn out to be a Childress type player. He's worth the risk, and the Wizards can still sign Martin.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 27, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Team's moving forward, oh yea!

Blatche - better
McGee - better
Wall - here
Arenas - back
Hinrich - here
Thornton/Singleton - bigger blessings than we realize
Yi -c'mon dude, break loose
Nick - light 'em up Nick

Optimistic is the only way to be a fan. When pessimistic, better to find another hobby.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 27, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

No loops. I'm looking at it purely from what EGs objectives were and not whether Larry was worth X amount of dollars. EG clearly wanted to keep Larry and (thankfully) wasn't able to do it despite eventually offering him an absurdly high offer.

Basically if EG had his way, LH would have signed a giant contract here (that last offer).

So I really dont see where the fact he wasnt able to sign Hughes is a good example of his acumen. Rather we lucked out the Cavs overvalued LH even more than we did.

Posted by: divi3

Which is slightly different than saying he was making a mistake by underpaying him and by overpaying him in the same negotiations. And while the eventual offer was high, it's not as high as he could have gone ($84M) if he was that determined to keep him. He reached his limit and cashed out. Genius move? No. But not a mistake either.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse


Article on Seraphin from Draft Express playing against Wall and top high school players in 2009.

Nike Hoop Summit, International Prospects
April 14, 2009
A very interesting prospect considering his size and physical tools, Kevin Seraphin really had a chance to help his stock as a prospect in this game. Playing for Cholet in France, he has only had a few solid games since being promoted from their junior team, and it was a nice chance to showcase himself in front of the 65+ scouts in attendance. Though still a raw player, Seraphin managed to impress with his clutch play late in the game.

Physically, it's easy to notice Seraphin's strong, powerful body. Though a raw basketball talent, he has a great natural frame which he has managed to add a great deal of strength to in his couple of years playing basketball. The French prospect shows an explosive vertical leap and the ability to run the court like a guard. Combined with his 7'3" wingspan, he has nearly every tool you look for in a developing big.

Throughout the game, Seraphin displayed an excellent motor, fighting for every loose ball, making an effort to block every shot in his territory, and setting big, bruising screens on the offensive end of the floor. The big man has very impressive instincts when it comes to rebounding, particularly on the offensive end of the floor. His hustle was apparent late in the game, when he provided the World Select team with their first lead of the game on a dunk off a basket cut, and a jaw-dropping block on a John Wall lay-up on the other end of the floor. Coming back down on offense, he helped seal the victory with another dunk in transition, and a key offensive rebound off a missed free throw.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kevin-Seraphin-5278/#ixzz0uwSKjXPh
http://www.draftexpress.com

Posted by: ptp23 | July 27, 2010 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Looks like OPech's NBA career is hanging on by a thread. Prolly Ernie's lowest moment as Wiz GM IMO.

http://thehoopsmarket.blogspot.com/2010/07/oleksyi-pecherov-wants-to-continue.html

Posted by: elfreako | July 27, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

A little touchy aren't we?

Nope.

Foolish is not doing anything to help the bigs on the team develop into true bigs. Whether or not Miller would have signed here has nothing to do with management being proactive in trying to get a solid veteran at the 5 spot to help coach up the young bigs.
Posted by: DC_MAN88

Sadly, foolishness is not mutually exclusive. Doing nothing is just as foolish as signing Miller to be our starting center would have been.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of the Wizards' needs at the 3 and 5. Besides Torrance, Tel Aviv also signed Richard Hendrix. And Rod Benson signed in Korea, which I was really sad to see. Rod Benson would have been great entertainment as a Wizard. I don't know what Paul Davis' status is.

What about Pettway?

At the 3, what is the status of Singleton? Assuming he signs elsewhere, I still haven't given up on Alonzo Gee and Mike Harris, the two best 3s in the D League last year. I guess San Antonio and Houston have some sort of rights to Gee and Harris respectively. However, if either isn't signed the Wizards ought to swoop in. It's hard to believe that Gee would be foolish enough to let himself be reassigned to the D League for another season for a training camp signing bonus or something like that.

It will be interesting to see who the Wizards invite to training camp.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | July 28, 2010 7:33 AM | Report abuse

You guys are still sleeping on Pech!
He would be a nice backup center to JaVale. This Hilton Armstrong guy is a stiff and if he can still get an NBA paycheck, Pech definitely can!

Posted by: roscoepcalhounbrownjriii | July 28, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

The draftexpress link has Seraphin at 258pounds which is probably around where he was at the Nike Summit. However by June10th he was 278 pounds...that's probably the reason he was so slow in the VC workout and maybe contributing to his knee taking longer to heal than expected. Drop those lbs kid!

Posted by: divi3 | July 28, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

The draftexpress link has Seraphin at 258pounds which is probably around where he was at the Nike Summit. However by June10th he was 278 pounds...that's probably the reason he was so slow in the VC workout and maybe contributing to his knee taking longer to heal than expected. Drop those lbs kid!

He's not supposed to be healed until August. The 2-3 week report came from Twitter. Hardly reliable. Could've been a little slow from the ligament tear he had.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 28, 2010 9:10 AM | Report abuse

"Looks like OPech's NBA career is hanging on by a thread."

And, apparently, it's an Armani Jeans thread.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 28, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

"However by June10th he was 278 pounds...that's probably the reason he was so slow in the VC workout and maybe contributing to his knee taking longer to heal than expected. Drop those lbs kid!
Posted by: divi3"

I was trying to find that article. Latest weight I found for him was 264. Am I missing it?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Word is on the Warriors' blogs that the Lin signing may have had to do with the team's embarrassment over Epke Udoh's injury, which was possibly sustained at a Golden State event around the time of the draft. Lots of grousing about the club should have picked Greg Monroe, who a lot of fans liked better anyway. Lin's a good story that helps salvage a bit of the draft glow for the fans.

The other continuing prediction is that the new ownership will replace Don Nelson.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

"However by June10th he was 278 pounds...that's probably the reason he was so slow in the VC workout and maybe contributing to his knee taking longer to heal than expected. Drop those lbs kid!
Posted by: divi3"

I was trying to find that article. Latest weight I found for him was 264. Am I missing it?

Posted by: Samson151

Closest I have found to it is a tweet listed on the side of his draft-express profile saying he weighed in at 278 at Treviso (Adidas EuroCamp).

Don't know if he's put on pounds through lifting or through inactivity, either way, it's probably better for his knees in the long term if he trims it down a bit.

Posted by: ts35 | July 28, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

To the rest of divi's point,

Div, despite the initial report via Tweet of a 'minor' knee injury, Seraphin suffered a small tear in a knee ligament. He's not taking longer than expected to heal. The initial injury was just misreported.

Posted by: ts35 | July 28, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Apparently he gained 14 pounds in 6hrs! Right. Of note, this update also says "walking normal, knee is fine" so who knows where it came from:

Kevin Seraphin is in Treviso getting measured. Came out 6-9 in shoes, 278, w/7-3 wingspan, 9-1 standing reach. Walking normal, knee is fine.
2010-06-07 12:45:01

Kevin Seraphin is in Treviso getting measured. Came out 6-9 in shoes, 264, w/7-3 wingspan, 9-1 standing reach. Walking normal, knee is fine.
2010-06-07 06:20:07

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kevin-Seraphin-5278/#ixzz0uzTK34BC
http://www.draftexpress.com

Posted by: divi3 | July 28, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Apparently he gained 14 pounds in 6hrs! Right.
Posted by: divi3

Give me a good afternoon at Famous Dave's and I could do that. :)

Posted by: ts35 | July 28, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Even considering the knee injury, he did look slow at the VC workout in comparison to what's been reported from the Nike Summit. IF he's hulked up to 280ish you cant expect him to get up and down the floor like would have at 265. As fun as it would be to see a 6'9" 285 pound hammer just bashing people we probably need him more in the 265ish range so he can run the floor well.

Posted by: divi3 | July 28, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure it's a combo of weight, knee not quite right yet, and lack of conditioning from still being in physical rehab.

Posted by: ts35 | July 28, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Div...

I feel you...but those reports on the right...are tweets...just the same misinformation. Ernie said he'd be back a full contact in August.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 28, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I meant the left. I'm remedial.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 28, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

To be fair, they're not random tweets, they're tweets from the DraftExpress guy Givorny who was at EuroCamp. I'm just saying the first info out there isn't always 100% accurate.

Although in other tweet news, Arenas' torn ACL from earlier in the summer is apparently healing miraculously!

Posted by: ts35 | July 28, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Seraphin has said (in French obviously) that he was surprised how hard the Wizards pushed him in the days leading up to summer league, that he passed out exhausted in his hotel room each evening. So the knee must be doing pretty well.

Posted by: divi3 | July 28, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"Word is on the Warriors' blogs that the Lin signing may have had to do with the team's embarrassment over Epke Udoh's injury, which was possibly sustained at a Golden State event around the time of the draft. Lots of grousing about the club should have picked Greg Monroe, who a lot of fans liked better anyway. Lin's a good story that helps salvage a bit of the draft glow for the fans.


The other continuing prediction is that the new ownership will replace Don Nelson."

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 10:26 AM

The very fact that the Warriors didn't take Monroe was probably a sign that Nelson's position wasn't secure, even before the sale was finalized. Left to his own devices, I can't imagine him not wanting Monroe over Udoh, given his history.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 28, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

THE KEY MAN: F Andray Blatche. For all the caterwauling about whether Gilbert Arenas can coexist with Wall next season, any hopes Washington has of a quick resurgence lies with Blatche, the Wizards' power forward who teased them with major numbers (22 points, eight rebounds per game) after the team shipped Antawn Jamison to Cleveland and Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood to Dallas last February. The 6-foot-11, 23-year-old Blatche waited behind Jamison for five seasons, but now the four spot is all his. Is he going to be a force for years to come or a March Wonder who never manages to lead his team anywhere?
THE SKINNY: Talk about rebuilding on the fly. The Wizards may start next season with as many as eight new players on their roster. But airing Verizon Center of the stench from last season's horror show was a necessity. Wall has superstar potential, and the Wizards wasted no time making him the face of the franchise. It will take a couple of years to see if this all comes together, and for Leonsis -- who turned the NHL's Capitals into a Stanley Cup contender -- to put his stamp on the team, but this summer was a good beginning.


http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/07/26/offseasonrank.part2/index.html

Aldridge thinks the Wizards have had the 12th best offseason in the NBA, but what does he know?

Posted by: tgif11 | July 28, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

It sure looked like to me that the coaches were making no attempt to have Seraphin go full speed at the VC drill. Looked more like they were conducting a 1/2 to 3/4 speed drill.

I thought I read some where back around the draft that the Wizards had termed his workout a walk through because they knew he was hurt.

Besides Wes Unseld never got payed to run, and that's what we're talking about here, a guy that gets paid to rebound, play D, set some picks, and clean up around the offensive glass.

It's very easy to bulk up in the upper body if a player continues to lift weights and is unable to to do lower body work because of a leg injury. That could be the cause of the weights being all over the board. Or, some of them could just be wrong.

The Wiz should be glad to have a guy that has that upper body strength and seems to possess some basketball skills to go with it. From what I've seen he sure looks alot smoother on the court then Jahidi White.

As the roster is composed right at this minute the Wiz seemed poised to give Seraphin some playing time right from the start.

Unless Flip is going to work some offensive sets where he uses Yi to try and pull the opposing center away from the rim, I can't see him getting many minutes at backup center. And Hilton Armstrong has yet to prove himself in the league, unless he blooms late like he did in college I don't see him getting more then token minutes.

To me it appears that for a team relying on an unproven guy like McGee to start, it sure seems to be a real lack of a veteran B/U...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 28, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Seraphin = Michael Cage?

Posted by: tgif11 | July 28, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"It sure looked like to me that the coaches were making no attempt to have Seraphin go full speed at the VC drill. Looked more like they were conducting a 1/2 to 3/4 speed drill."

Did you catch the very end where they had him "sprint" the length of the court? Who knows, he could have simply been exhausted it was the end of the session.

I think he'll play decent rookie minutes this season, as much so as Javale did 2yrs ago. I mean, why the hell not assuming he's healthy

Posted by: divi3 | July 28, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Well, the offseason isn't over yet and EG could pick up a couple of other key pieces. But I agree with ragtop, the Wizards have a strong young nucleus that should improve as the season wears on.

I wouldn't be surprised to see players make the team out of camp, particularly Cartier Martin and Lester Hudson, who played so well in the summer league.

The Wizards will be fun to watch, and I'll be rooting for them to make the playoffs, but that's a long shot. They'd have to be lottery-lucky to do that.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 28, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

To me it appears that for a team relying on an unproven guy like McGee to start, it sure seems to be a real lack of a veteran B/U...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv

My expectation (not my preference) is that EG will bring another semi-veteran big man or two to camp. No one exciting, just another big body to absorb minutes and fouls. If Seraphin shows he might be able to handle the load, then they'll ditch the extra vet, or he'll spend a lot of time in a suit.

Posted by: ts35 | July 28, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"My expectation (not my preference) is that EG will bring another semi-veteran big man or two to camp. No one exciting, just another big body to absorb minutes and fouls."

Then he better hurry up, before Miami signs them all.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 28, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Well, the offseason isn't over yet and EG could pick up a couple of other key pieces. But I agree with ragtop, the Wizards have a strong young nucleus that should improve as the season wears on.
The Wizards will be fun to watch, and I'll be rooting for them to make the playoffs, but that's a long shot. They'd have to be lottery-lucky to do that.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 28, 2010 12:14 PM
=============
I think the Wiz "might" have a strong young nucleus. Wall could be the truth if gets that jumper to a professional standard. Blatch and Mcgee are the question marks. If AB continues to dedidcate himself more he will be huge in the Wizards development. The same with Mcgee. If he learns to fine tune his game likewise.

Other than that, I unfortunatly get the feeling that Ted,EG, and co. are attempting to put a hopefully enteraining product on the floor with room for optimism. I think they want to see what unfolds personnel wise and as far as the anticipated lockout. In the meanwhile I am glad that their has been an effort to at least make the team tougher and scrappy.

The next year or two could be like an extended tryout/training camp.

Posted by: millineumman | July 28, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/07/26/offseasonrank.part2/index.html

Aldridge thinks the Wizards have had the 12th best offseason in the NBA, but what does he know?

Posted by: tgif11 | July 28, 2010 12:00 PM

And, to his credit, he owns up to the subjectivity of his take. I esp. liked this part:

"The Closer got it done, luring LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Mike Miller, all while keeping Dwyane Wade, and if you're looking for some statistical analysis that "proves" the Hornets had a better summer, keep walking. Miami won the summer, but it's only the summer. The Lakers and Celtics and Magic aren't afraid."

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 28, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Aldridge thinks the Wizards have had the 12th best offseason in the NBA, but what does he know?

Posted by: tgif11

Did you notice that in the Philly section he also wrote "Nocioni will give the Sixers some interior toughness"? ; )

Posted by: nmik | July 28, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Any news on Seraphin officially signing with the team? I am really, really excited to see what he can do for us this year. The "toughness" element that Ernie talked about adding is definitely here, there's no dancing around it. Booker might've been the toughest player in the past few drafts this side of Dejuan Blair, Wall is up there, and Kirk Hinrich is really scrappy. Seraphin is a 270 lb. athletic banger. I like our additions

Posted by: TDAV | July 28, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"Sadly, foolishness is not mutually exclusive. Doing nothing is just as foolish as signing Miller to be our starting center would have been.

Posted by: ts35 | July 27, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse "

Doing nothing is not going to help the team. Trying to do something, as I think Miller would be good for the young bigs here, would be proactive.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 28, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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