Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: MrMichaelLee and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Kirk Hinrich to get introduced on Monday

The Wizards will finally introduce Kirk Hinrich on Monday, more than a month after they agreed with Chicago to acquire the veteran combo guard and about three weeks after the deal was completed.


I'm on my way. (Photo by Nick Laham/Getty Images)

At the time the trade was made on June 24, it was hard to get overly excited. By absorbing Hinrich's $9 million salary next season, it seemed as if the Wizards were assisting the Bulls in creating a powerhouse for years to come by allowing them to potentially sign two maximum level free agents -- back when it appeared that Chicago could use the available cap space to sign LeBron James and Chris Bosh. But now that James and Bosh both joined Dwyane Wade in Miami and Wade appeared to simply toy with Bulls during the seemingly-staged free agency frenzy, the Wizards look very opportunistic.

NBA.com's Steve Aschburner detailed how the Bulls had to take the gamble by dealing the 6-foot-3 Hinrich but came up snake eyes. The Bulls signed Carlos Boozer, but addressed their back court by becoming the East Coast Utah Jazz, signing Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer. Chicago assembled a good team, which should be one of the top teams in the East, but free agency didn't necessarily yield the expected bonanza. The Wizards didn't exactly facilitate a dynasty.

President Ernie Grunfeld wasn't swayed by what trading for Hinrich (and 17th overall pick Kevin Seraphin) could mean for the Bulls, he looked at what it meant for the Wizards. For one, it provided a veteran guard to have on the roster, now that Mike Miller followed the SuperFriends to Miami, Randy Foye signed with the Los Angeles Clippers and Shaun Livingston landed in Charlotte. Hinrich is a tad overpriced, but using the rationale of those in the Wizards front office, he actually costs the team $3 million when you consider that the Bulls paid the team $3 million to make the trade -- and the Wizards were fully prepared to spend $3 million on a first-round draft pick.

And, Grunfeld actually got a player that he has coveted since Hinrich entered the NBA out of Kansas in 2003.

The Wizards have the No. 1 overall pick in John Wall and an offensive-minded back court mate in Gilbert Arenas, and Hinrich has already been in a similar situation in Chicago, where the Bulls had Derrick Rose and Ben Gordon on a team that nearly upset Boston in the 2009 first round.

"We've always like Kirk, his grittiness, his toughness. He's an outstanding defender," Grunfeld said after the trade was finally approved. "I think with Kirk, you get a solid veteran player who's played both guard spots. He's played with the No. 1 pick before. He's a tough, gritty, hard-nosed competitor and I think he could fit in well with both John and Gilbert."

New Bulls Coach Tom Thibodeau praised Hinrich the day before the draft-day agreement, saying at his introductory news conference, "I've always admired his game because of his versatility and great competitive spirit."

I heard that Hinrich initially didn't handle the trade very well, which is understandable since he had spent the past seven seasons in Chicago -- not far from his native Sioux City, Iowa -- and experienced some success with the Bulls. The night before he was officially dealt, Hinrich told reporters in Chicago that he was "excited to move on to a new opportunity" in Washington but he still appeared to be a little conflicted.

Hinrich stopped by Verizon Center a few weeks ago take his physical and catch of glimpse of Wall and some of his future teammates during summer league minicamp. He had to head to a wedding the next day. In one of his rare interviews since the deal, Hinrich told the Chicago Tribune, "I'm excited and motivated for the opportunity. I hope it works out for the Bulls. I really enjoyed my seven seasons there. To get drafted by the Bulls and have the opportunity to grow as player, I had a blast. I tried to play hard for the fans."

And now he has some new ones to impress in a familiar No. 12 jersey.

By Michael Lee  |  July 23, 2010; 6:14 PM ET
Categories:  Add category , Kirk Hinrich  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: John Wall's summer league highlights
Next: JaVale McGee holding on, Kevin Seraphin gets cut

Comments

I think Hinrich is a good acquisition, but better at starter than coming off the bench....

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Still glad that EG made the move. The fact that Seraphin is part of the deal and the move cost the Wiz nothing more than cap space is especially sweet.

Posted by: JPRS | July 23, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Lester Hudson played some nice D for the Wiz in Summer League. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a fourth guard on the roster, with 6'7" Nick Young getting minutes at small forward. JaVale got some nice stats in Vegas but was abused when faced by guys with NBA experience like DeAndre Jordan from the Clips. Hilton Armstrong and McGee are both awful options as centers. We better hope John Wall can rebound.

Posted by: Janitor_with_a_Jumpshot | July 23, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

"Still glad that EG made the move. The fact that Seraphin is part of the deal and the move cost the Wiz nothing more than cap space is especially sweet.Posted by: JPRS"

Didn't we have to give up Vlady Veremeenko?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Brett Robson of SI.com opines on the worst signings of free agency:

Stoudemire to NY for 5 yrs, $100 mil
Amir Johnson to Raps for 5 years, $34 mil
Joe Johnson to Atlanta for 6 yrs, 124 mil
Corey Maggette to Bucks

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Didn't we have to give up Vlady Veremeenko?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 23, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...but I don't recall him getting a lot of minutes last year...or ever, or even getting a visa to travel here. Plus Seraphin is a super cool name...could be in the Deadly Viper Assassination outfit.

I agree with DCMAN on Hinrich, I would like to see him start with Wall instead of Arenas at the two. I know they have to play GA to try and re-birth some value but I think Hinrich is a much better fit. He plays decent D, does not need to control the ball and can drain open shots...that is exactly what you want to pair with Wall. Ok...maybe shy of exactly....25 year old, sober Chris Mullin would be exactly.

I am on pins and needles to see the first few minutes of Wall and Gil on the floor together...if Wall starts passing to Gil, and consistently does not see the ball again, I could see some problems developing.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

I am on pins and needles to see the first few minutes of Wall and Gil on the floor together...if Wall starts passing to Gil, and consistently does not see the ball again, I could see some problems developing.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows

The first few minutes...games...month(?) will be fine. Gil will be on his best behavior. It's once the season settles into a rhythm and his troubles from this offseason start to fade into the distance that I think Gil will revert to previous form (if in fact he does revert, hopefully he won't).

Posted by: ts35 | July 23, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

"I am on pins and needles to see the first few minutes of Wall and Gil on the floor together...if Wall starts passing to Gil, and consistently does not see the ball again, I could see some problems developing.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse "

I don't know what kind of game Gilby can play if he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Given that, I don't think Gilby can play significant minutes anymore.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2010 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Given that, I don't think Gilby can play significant minutes anymore.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

I don't think the fact that YOU don't know what kind of game he can play if he doesn't have the ball in his hands means he can't play significant minutes anymore.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 23, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I don't picture Gil curling for an open jumper...everything he does is off the bounce. I just struggle to see this even working for a game much less a month.

There is potential value for a Vinnie Johnson type role off the bench for Gil. However, that role does not command 20 mil annual on the open market. How do they realize full market value for Gil if he does not control the ball? If they had drafted anyone else this would not be an issue, but I think they are going to have to make a choice. Either try and recoup value for Gil or let Wall have the keys....I don't see how they can do both.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think the fact that YOU don't know what kind of game he can play if he doesn't have the ball in his hands means he can't play significant minutes anymore.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 23, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse "

You're saying two unrelated things. The first thing is that he's the type of player that needs the ball in his hands. He doesn't feed off others. The second thing is that due to his knee, he won't be able to play the minutes that he used to in the past.

If you were paying attention the articles written about him a few months ago, there was a report that at the halfway house, he would go 1/2 steam against the inmates there and still was dragging his leg and had to ice it up big time afterwards. That's not good.

The next big announcement coming out of the Gilby camp could be that he's retiring due to an arthritic knee where there's bone on bone rubbing.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

"Yeah, I don't picture Gil curling for an open jumper...everything he does is off the bounce. I just struggle to see this even working for a game much less a month.

There is potential value for a Vinnie Johnson type role off the bench for Gil. However, that role does not command 20 mil annual on the open market. How do they realize full market value for Gil if he does not control the ball? If they had drafted anyone else this would not be an issue, but I think they are going to have to make a choice. Either try and recoup value for Gil or let Wall have the keys....I don't see how they can do both.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse "

The more you type, the more you make clear what a boneheaded move EG made to re-sign a high maintenance shoot first point guard with a bum knee to max money. Gilby couldn't get Les BouleS deep into the playoffs even when healthy. EG basically has hamstrung the franchise.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

you make clear what a boneheaded move EG made to re-sign a high maintenance shoot first point guard with a bum knee to max money.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse


I wholly believe that was Abe's generosity/senility at work there; Clearly Gil had been the single largest factor in the Wizards achieving some buzz in the league/city and Abe gave him a blank one in appreciation. It was a terrible business decision; Gil had already gone under the knife twice and showed no progress in recovery at that point. In fact, it is likely they knew or suspected he would in fact have to have a third surgery. Sheer insanity....is there any precedent for this in NBA? Really?... a max contract for an injured player who has not played in a year (at that time)

What's done is done but I just don't feel EG was the driver there. What to do now is the question...

I gotta wonder where Gil's head actually is right now (I know..) TS said he will be on his best behavior, at least for a while, but I am just not so sure. He has a lot of leverage; I imagine he also has a lot of resentment over how quickly the organization turned on him. Really kind of shocked me as well, seemed pretty cold. How does he feel about Wall? Is he threatened? This kid is as fast as Gil used to be....ouch.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

It is like a tree falling in a forest with no one around, does it make a sound? Who knows???

And I am saying that unless there is really a change being brought about in this organization from whomever, the way we handle players will doom any chance of the Wizards building a championship squad.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 12:14 PM

`

There are some good points here. At the same time, they seemed to have taken care of Gilbert Arenas.

Posted by: Vicc | July 24, 2010 12:09 AM | Report abuse

1) Gil doesn't 'need' the ball in his hands to be effective, he just 'likes' to have the ball in his hands. Big difference. If Gil decides to make the adjustment, he is more than good enough offensively and more than willing enough to work on his game to make it work. Obviously, that's the big 'if.'

2) If Flip's "two guard" offense is as described, it sounds like Gil will actually have the ball in his hands some of the time. There's also the chance for him to play point when Wall is on the bench.

3) WRT to Gil's knee. First, he played pretty well on it last year for almost half of an NBA season at 35+ mins a game. That's no guarantee that he can stand up to full seasons or multiple seasons, but it is a start. They are also in position with Hinrich to reduce Gil's minutes if his knee gets balky.

4) Read the article. Didn't read the part where he was 'dragging his leg'. He did have to ice it, which he will probably have to do for the rest of his career....like a lot of other basketball players do. In and of itself it doesn't mean anything.

5) Amare had a similar injury and some of the same setbacks, but has been able to resume his career.

I'm more worried about where Gil's head is at than where his knee is at.

6) People will (rightfully) debate Gil's contract likely in perpetuity, but certainly until he overcomes the criticism on the court. Obviously Abe had influence on the re-signing, but imo, there was agreement from EG. Even with the risk inherent in his knee injury, it's hard for teams to walk away from 26 year olds with his level of ability. Personally I think re-signing AJ to his 4 year deal was a more crippling move, but that's an argument for history.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

"What's done is done but I just don't feel EG was the driver there. What to do now is the question...

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse "

Nevermind the Gilby debacle...the other transactions and the lack of success of the team alone (2 straight lotteries) is more than enough reason that EG should have been gone.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 1:45 AM | Report abuse

LOL! Debating whether Gilby can be effective without the ball in his hands is silly b/c he's always had the ball in his hands.

I don't see Gilby with his bum knee being able to play the traditional 2 guard role in either the offense or the defense.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 1:54 AM | Report abuse

Hinrich is just as likely to overdribble as Gil, they are both more naturally 1s than 2s. And neither will be able to handle the SGs though with Gil it will be absurd.

Nick's the guy who should start at 2! Size, strength, length, scoring, and defense(apparently). Plus he really doesnt want to have the ball in his hands that much, and moves well without it.

But EG has a love affair with Hinrich and he's getting paid $9mill while Gil rakes in $20mill, so they're the guys who will play regardless of results.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse

If we could just get rid of that cancer named Gilbert Arenas, this team would have some potential.

Posted by: jameskim99 | July 24, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

I'm not thinking about Arenas at all. We'll just have to see how it plays out. What I'm thinking about is whether the Wizards need to sign another center -- a defensive backup -- and if so, who might be available? The comment was made above that neither McGee nor Armstrong is a competent NBA defensive center. Is Seraphin? My presumption is no, until he proves otherwise. And H is years away. When do the Wizards announce training camp signings?

Posted by: PostSubscriber | July 24, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I don't see Gilby with his bum knee being able to play the traditional 2 guard role in either the offense or the defense.
Posted by: DC_MAN88

Is he really going to be any worse at not guarding 2 guards than he was at not guarding point guards?

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Nick's the guy who should start at 2! Size, strength, length, scoring, and defense(apparently). Plus he really doesnt want to have the ball in his hands that much, and moves well without it.

But EG has a love affair with Hinrich and he's getting paid $9mill while Gil rakes in $20mill, so they're the guys who will play regardless of results.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 8:06 AM

I agree with this. Obviously from their one game together in Vegas John Wall has confidence in NY. He might be the only one apparently but he's all that really matters.

One thing Nick gets little to no credit for is his durability. He hasn't had an injury since October '08. Look it up if you want... every DNP he's endured has been the CD variety in that span. How and McGee have somehow escaped the Wizards injury jinx. That's got to count for something right?

Posted by: elfreako | July 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Meant to write He and McGee. My bust.

Posted by: elfreako | July 24, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"Hinrich is just as likely to overdribble as Gil, they are both more naturally 1s than 2s. And neither will be able to handle the SGs though with Gil it will be absurd.

Nick's the guy who should start at 2! Size, strength, length, scoring, and defense(apparently). Plus he really doesnt want to have the ball in his hands that much, and moves well without it.

But EG has a love affair with Hinrich and he's getting paid $9mill while Gil rakes in $20mill, so they're the guys who will play regardless of results.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse "

Hinrich is more naturally a 1 than Gilby. Hinrich is less likely to look for his own shot compared to Gilby.

NY is not going to see more PT until he shows more consistency. Every season he talks about being more mature and doing this and that, but the season is a long season and he hasn't shown it.

What EG has a love affair with is lottery busts.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

"And I am saying that unless there is really a change being brought about in this organization from whomever, the way we handle players will doom any chance of the Wizards building a championship squad.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 23, 2010 12:14 PM"

The players need to handle themselves.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

What is going to frustrate me is that Hinrich will be Miller2.0 for Flip. As in, if he plays poorly it will have no effect on his minutes nor will he get called out publicly as Flip likes to do with younger players.

Of course, hopefully CaptKirk plays well and there is no issue whatsoever. I just dont like ANYBODY having guaranteed minutes on a young rebuilding team expected to win very little. And I'm suspecting that Kirk will play plenty of 2 no matter what so as to keep his minutes at 25-30, same for Gil.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"Is he really going to be any worse at not guarding 2 guards than he was at not guarding point guards?

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse "

Pretty likely. SG's are generally are bigger and more athletic than PG's, and SG's may run Gilby's knee ragged. I'd hate to see Gilby try to keep up with chasing guys like Rip or Ray Allen around screens. There's no BTH in the paint to hold his ground and bail bums out.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Adding a guy like Hinrich is going to go a long way toward changing the culture of the Wizards. Both he and Booker are those lunch bucket kind of players that every team needs. The guys that will just play tough hardnosed basketball to make a team better.

Nick Young may get caught in a battle for minutes this year, I hope he looks around in camp and figures out that if he'd play the game with a little more of Hinrich's gritty determination he could carve out a career for himself. The kid has to play his game all the time like he just made 4 jumpers in a row. Nick's problems are mental, Eddie Jordan has him conditioned to look at the bench after every missed shot.

Nice articale about McGee and USA Basketball in today's paper, barring injury I see nothing but good things coming out of the experience. I'd say that it's a better way for him to be spending his time then anything else he could do this summer.

Make the team or not, he's competing with other big men for a roster spot. They're all pushing each other to get better. Sounds like he'll be with them until at least next month's session in NY.

Working with Coach K should be great for him, in college coaches have to work with guy's who are still often maturing into their body. NBA coaches as a group aren't great at working with guys to improve their individual games, they don't have the time for a lot of one on one developmental coaching.

Too many straight from HS to NBA guys lanquished on team's benches and never developed their talent. It was such a problem the league changed the rule, but now we have one and done guys every year.

I'd like to see the NBA and NCAA adopt a rule more like major league baseball, where guys can either be drafted and sign a developmental contract out of HS and be carried on an extended roster. Or go to college for 3 years before being able to enter the draft again.

A guy like McGee would have greatly benefited from being where there is more time to teach basketball either in the D Leaque or in college. That's why I think there is a real dearth of post talent in this country right now. Nobody has the time to really individually coach these guys. Big men take time and coaching to develop, many never stay in one place long enough for a coach to have an impact on their game.

I hope McGee's soaking up all of the coaching he can get right now like a sponge, it can only help his career, and the Wizards too...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 24, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

How's this:

Wall 6'4"
Nick 6'6"
Yi 7'
AB 6'11"
JM 7'2"

Talk about a loooong athletic lineup! Perhaps a little short on handle, but we want JWall with the ball in his hands most of the time anyway. Yi can shoot all day over opposing 3s in the 15-20ft range. Obviously JM is a question inside, but he's gotta learn sometime.

Hopefully this particular groups gets some burn, I'd like to see how opposing teams handle that much size and athleticism.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Seraphin had better be able to come in, play D and rebound this year. I mean come on, we traded up to get the guy at 17th knowing full well he has little-to-no offensive game. Which is fine, but only on the assumption his defense and rebounding is there to the extent he can be on the floor this year (contributing and making mistakes).

Silly to put a guy like that in DLeague, he needs to be thrown into the fire now.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"if he'd play the game with a little more of Hinrich's gritty determination he could carve out a career for himself."

Personally I find too much lauding a player's grit and determination to be a red flag. I like for there to be talk about talent and ability moreso than that a player tries hard and competes. To me those are often code phrases for "undersized" or "floorbound" or "spotty Jumper."

However I agree 100% that every team needs players like that in the lockeroom, and if that type of attitude becomes infectious than it can do more for the team than will ever be seen in said players individual play.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

More from SI.com on Robson's worst deals/signings of the offseason:

Corey Maggette to the Bucks: Robson uses stats from 82games.com to demonstrate that the Warriors were actually measurably worse on BOTH defense and offense when Maggette was on the floor. Likewise, he complains that adding Corey to rapid-shooting ball hogs like Jennings and Salmons takes time away from more unselfish players.

Jermaine O'Neal to Boston, 2 yrs, $12 mil. Panic signing when Perkins got hurt and Wallace left.

Rudy Gay back to Memphis at 5 yrs, $82 mil. The Griz could have matched any offer. Gay was reportedly stunned by the contract.

Tyrus Thomas to Charlotte, 5 yr, $40 mil

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I think the O'Neil signing is good for Boston....some statheads determined he was one of the premier interior defenders in the league last year, I believe he led the nba in blocked layups.

That is hilarious Gay was "stunned" by the offer. What a sweet day that must have been for him.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

"A guy like McGee would have greatly benefited from being where there is more time to teach basketball either in the D Leaque or in college. That's why I think there is a real dearth of post talent in this country right now. Nobody has the time to really individually coach these guys. Big men take time and coaching to develop, many never stay in one place long enough for a coach to have an impact on their game.

I hope McGee's soaking up all of the coaching he can get right now like a sponge, it can only help his career, and the Wizards too...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 24, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse "

Unfortunately, JaTravel's situation is no different than the real world.

If you leave college early thinking you're going to make it big like Bill Gates without finishing college, then you're in for a rude awakening. In the real world, no one's going to give you the foundation that you should have developed in college.

Kids coming out early take that gamble, and it's a gamble that their going to have to deal with, good or bad.

The NBA will survive b/c there are always players at the elite level who are the Bill Gates of the world, and there's always a fresh supply of young bodies coming into the league whether from college or international, that will take the place of those that become busts. There's no real incentive for teams to make major time investments into players b/c of this, especially when players up and leave when they do get better and they think they can get more money elsewhere.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The_Shadow_Knows--thanks for some intelligent comments about Arenas.

Posted by: KTV1 | July 24, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

What EG has a love affair with is lottery busts.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 10:02 AM

Beggars can't be choosers. Grunfeld's on a shoestring budget per Ted's mandate. Pay attention next time.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 24, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"Beggars can't be choosers. Grunfeld's on a shoestring budget per Ted's mandate. Pay attention next time.

Posted by: Firuz1 | July 24, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse "

That would be EG's excuse, but unfortunately, EG's had chances to spend money during Abe's tenure and those turned into busts also. Etan, MeTawn, SheTawn, Umberto, etc.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Seraphin had better be able to come in, play D and rebound this year. I mean come on, we traded up to get the guy at 17th knowing full well he has little-to-no offensive game. Which is fine, but only on the assumption his defense and rebounding is there to the extent he can be on the floor this year (contributing and making mistakes).
Posted by: divi3"

Why? Wasn't the trade really Kirk Hinrich and the draft rights to 20 year old power forward Kevin Seraphin plus cash considerations, in exchange for the draft rights to 25 year old power forward Vladimir Veremeenko?

Maybe Vlady turns out to be the next Luis Scola. But as it stands now, Chicago was dumping salary and the swap is completely unbalanced in the Wiz' favor.

What team with salary cap room wouldn't have made that swap?

So why not be patient with Seraphin? Especially since every observer agrees he needs time to develop NBA skills.

Would be great for the Wiz if he blossomed as a rook, but if he doesn't, what has Washington lost? The kid's only 20.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Friday Scrimmage Impressions

Here are the rosters for Saturday’s USA Basketball Showcase, which will be televised on ESPN2 at 10 p.m. ET…

Blue: Chauncey Billups, Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay, Jeff Green, Brook Lopez, Kevin Love, O.J. Mayo, JaVale McGee, Rajon Rondo and Russell Westbrook
White: Tyson Chandler, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, Eric Gordon, Danny Granger, Andre Iguodala, Lamar Odom, Derrick Rose and Gerald Wallace.

Who is on the cut bubble for Team USA?

Chris Sheridan gives his two cents.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 24, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

By the way, lots of grumbling in Chicago over the Hinrich trade. He was popular there, and as you know got some credit for Rose's rapid development. The fans think the Bulls should have gotten more for him plus a mid first-rounder and $$.

After 7 seasons, Kirk left Chicago ranked first in team history in 3-point FGs made and attempted, 6th in 3 pt FG%, 4th in assists, 4th in steals (655), 5th in TOs, 7th in minutes, 8th in total points, 10th in total FGs.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Also by the way, the Chicago papers say Derrick Rose is spending his off-season shooting hundreds of 3 pointers. With the addition of Boozer, there's a legit low-post threat and Rose figures there will be many more opportunities from outside.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I didnt say anything about Seraphin blossoming this year, I said he shouldnt need to spend the season in the Dleague and that he should be able to see floortime this year.

PF? I thought he's supposed to be a defensive C because he doesnt have the offensive skills to play PF?

What team wouldnt take on Kirk Hinrich? About 20 of them apparently, given the last 3yrs of him being on the block

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

JaVale got some nice stats in Vegas but was abused when faced by guys with NBA experience like DeAndre Jordan from the Clips. Hilton Armstrong and McGee are both awful options as centers. We better hope John Wall can rebound.

Posted by: Janitor_with_a_Jumpshot | July 23, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

What Summer League were you watching.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 24, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I agree with DCMAN on Hinrich, I would like to see him start with Wall instead of Arenas at the two. I know they have to play GA to try and re-birth some value but I think Hinrich is a much better fit. He plays decent D, does not need to control the ball and can drain open shots...that is exactly what you want to pair with Wall. Ok...maybe shy of exactly....25 year old, sober Chris Mullin would be exactly.

I am on pins and needles to see the first few minutes of Wall and Gil on the floor together...if Wall starts passing to Gil, and consistently does not see the ball again, I could see some problems developing.


Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | July 23, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich is a solid overpriced backup 30 year old point guard. He is a decent defender but has no redeeming offensive value. To intimate he should start over Arenas is ridiculous.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 24, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I now JWow is the future of Les BouleS, but has anyone in the organization come out and say that he's the starting PG?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse


Hinrich is a solid overpriced backup 30 year old point guard. He is a decent defender but has no redeeming offensive value. To intimate he should start over Arenas is ridiculous.

Posted by: NewManagement

Hinrich should and he ultimately will. Arenas is an overpriced PG/SG will no real position, a bad knee, is a turnover machine and has no value whatsoever on on defense. Hinrich hits a higher 3-pt% than Arenas and averages more assists than Arenas. Don't tell anyone, but those are stats that show offensive value. Should make for a more cohesive offensive and effective unit.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I now JWow is the future of Les BouleS, but has anyone in the organization come out and say that he's the starting PG?

Posted by: DC_MAN88

If they spend one second starting Hinrich or Arenas over Wall at PG, Flip and Ernie should be shown the door.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

What Summer League were you watching.

Posted by: NewManagement

The Clipper game where DeAndre Jordan gave JaVale the blues. To me that game showed that, for all his talent, JaVale still has a long way to go and is NOT a center. The Wizards still don't have decent center on the roster, but that makes them like just about every other team in the NBA.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich has never played with a defense focused to contain him. Gilbert has always played with the cheating towards him. So to throw stats out there like that is not taking into consideration everything. Who as a backcourt partner has Hinrich made look better than he really is?

Gilberts presence alone will open things up for Wall. The same for Wall. People can harp on the defensive side of it, but rarely has Gil been outplayed at his position, and that includes Hinrich. Those 2 guards will have as much problems with Gil as he does with them. If Gil is posted and gets into foul trouble, that is when you have Nick and Kirk.

Gil has proven to be a difference maker. Hinrich is not. If Hinrich was still in Chicago, he would be a backup, just as last year.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich is the new Antonio Daniels.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

The Clipper game where DeAndre Jordan gave JaVale the blues. To me that game showed that, for all his talent, JaVale still has a long way to go and is NOT a center. The Wizards still don't have decent center on the roster, but that makes them like just about every other team in the NBA.

Posted by: harrybalz

I noticed that too. But to be fair, Jordan is similar to McGee, a young, talented center. Like McGee, he is on the upswing. Jordan and McGee are both talented, green, but talented.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

The other thing is that McGee won the individual battle and the team battle over Jordan and the Clippers. It does look like Jordan is ahead of the offensive learning curve though.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 12:10 PM

Good points, G-Man11. There is a place for Arenas on the team, I'm just not so sure it's as a starter. On most teams, an undersized SG comes off the bench and provides scoring for the second unit and if he's hot and the matchups are favorable he plays a lot of minutes. That's the role that I think Arenas will ultimately have on this team. If Arenas didn't have the huge contract he has I think most would concede that coming off the bench as a SG/designated scorer is problably his best role, given what he's done his whole career. I can't say he'll definitely be a bust playing primary SG and I don't believe anyone else can say he definitely won't because he's in uncharted territory. He'll be primarily off the ball.

Hinrich would absolutely be a backup in Chicago because he's playing behind Rose, the guy who many NBA analysts believe is ready to become the best PG in the entire league, so that's no knock on Hinrich. We disagree on Gil showing he's a difference maker and Hinrich not. You make a difference on a game in more area than just scoring. Hinrich does.

Another reason I think Arenas should be coming off the bench is that he fully believes you outscore the other team to win. Flip/Ernie/Ted? are saying that you keep the other team from outscoring you to win, i.e., they want a defense-oriented team. Hinrich fits better with the latter philosophy as a starting, set-the-tone kind of guy.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Tyson Chandler, C
He has clearly been the team's best center, and has looked healthy after missing most of the last two NBA seasons with injuries.

Sounds like Brenda will get to cry a lot in Dallas, just like he did here.

On a more pertinent note, however, I think you all are worrying a bit too much about McGee. The guy is going to be fine. Actually superb. he and Wall will have ten+ years of high quality ball together here in Washington. He will take this year to learn, since even with the Dwight Howard, we'd be lucky to win 40 games.

Getting a "real" center as some of you suggested justput McGee another year back. let the big guy play and learn and become the all star he is destined to be.

And i will take coach K's opinion of a player over any of you all's anyway. From yesterdays Post article on McGee:

Mike Krzyzewski, the coach of the U.S. team, did not want to evaluate individual players this early on, but said this week that McGee has "done a good job."

"He's a shot-blocker. He protects the basket really well and he's seven feet tall," the Duke men's basketball coach said. "He brings more height, jumping ability and shot-blocking."


So add to that the fact that we know he can throw it down and get boards, I think we are set.

Posted by: Blurred | July 24, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The other thing is that McGee won the individual battle and the team battle over Jordan and the Clippers. It does look like Jordan is ahead of the offensive learning curve though.

Posted by: G-Man11

If you were looking at one game and one game only, Jordan came out of that game looking like the better center prospect, imo. If Jordan had Wall feeding him instead of Bledsoe the difference would have been even more pronounced.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

"What team wouldnt take on Kirk Hinrich? About 20 of them apparently, given the last 3yrs of him being on the block.Posted by: divi3"

What I actually said was 'what team with salary cap room wouldn't have made that swap?' Previous trades fell through because the Bulls wanted too much in return. For instance, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw from Portland; 2009 first rounder (#6 pick) from Minnesota; Elton Brand back from Philly for Kirk and Nocioni; Chris Kaman from the Clips. He was also mentioned prominently in several larger trades involving Amare Stoudemire.

"PF? I thought he's supposed to be a defensive C because he doesnt have the offensive skills to play PF?"posted by divi3

NBA.com and the Wiz have him listed as PF/C. By the way, his name is apparently pronounced sare-AH-fon.

Hope this helps keep you from artificially raising expectations and then spending the rest of the season complaining that they haven't been met.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like Brenda will get to cry a lot in Dallas, just like he did here.

Posted by: Blurred | July 24, 2010 12:55 PM

Lol! Cuban reportedly promised him he would start when they re-signed him, but he never promised him how many minutes he would play. I can see Chandler subbing in for him with about 8:00 left in the first quarter.

Besides, Haywood's got about 55 million reasons to keep his piehole shut.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Harry

When I meant Hinrich was a backup, I meant at guard, not point guard. If you start him at 2, he is smaller than Arenas. If you want to go with the bigger guard, then Nick has to score, but Nick is a bigger black hole than Gil. I would never start another near point guard/non-scoring guard next to Wall. He is not the threat offensively and the 2-guard is traditionally a scorer/shooter position. With Gil being primarily a scorer, we need a shooter at small forward, not a slasher like Thornton.

Also, I thought Jordan entered the league labelled with high potential, higher than McGee as he is a 7ft and a thicker frame. What he showed was better low-post offense than JaVale, but not defense. He will probably always be better on the offensive block, but McGee should not be a center either in my opinion. What he is is a Ralph Sampson running the break and catching lobs in halfcourt. Ralph had Olajuwon(shorter than Ralph) playing the center position. Can Dray play the Hakeem role?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich at first did not handle the trade very well.

Humm.

I guess in Hinrich case it did not matter what he initially felt about being traded to us but it did matter to the Wizards according to many bloggers here, what Livingston felt.

Why is that???

In fact some have gone on to say good riddance to any player that did not want to play here.

Lets move forward, move on they say. Good.

So one can clearly draw the conclusion now, that the wishes of the player hasn't got anything to do with it. It is what the organization wants and what is best it thinks for the team.

I have been going on and on about this Livingston thing, but all along I have maintained that it is all about the Wizards and not necessarily the player.

Time will tell whether the Wizard decisions in doing the trade for Hinrich, now revealed a coveted player by Grunfield since being drafted and a French player that isn't healthy enough to complete the French trials, and doesn't even have a Visa, was a smart move.

Some say that Livingston's knee was a liability for the Wizards. What about Seraphin's knee.

You see, the comments I have been making is all about what the Wizards want and how they see the way to build this team.

I feel they should have strongly shown their desire to have Livingston as the third guard way before Hinrich came into the picture.

And next when they did make the decision for Hinrich and Seraphin, I still disagree that Livingston became expendable.

Am I beating a dead horse? Maybe. Maybe not, for these offseason decisions and some still to come by the Wizards will shape our play on the court come next season.

Am I excited about John Wall with Gilbert? Yes. John Wall without Gilbert. No. A decision still yet to be determined.

The decisions we make or don't make will impact the team, so please, don't try to tell me that decisions made this offseason that will impact the season aren't fair game.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 24, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

G-Man11,

I concede that Hinrich has questions about his ability to handle the scoring aspect of the SG position, just as Gil has questions about the non-scoring aspects of the SG position. Gil is a career 43% FG shooter, Hinrich is a 42% shooter. Gil has averaged 23 ppg, Hinrich 13 ppg. I already mentioned that Hinrich is a better 3-pt shooter. Can Hinrich score more if asked to? Can Hinrich offset his relative lack of scoring by doing the other things that help you win? We shall see.

The Sampson comparison might be spot on!! People wanted Ralph to be Moses Malone and that just wasn't his game. I said the other day that McGee is a 3/4 who happens to be 7-ft tall and people thought I putting him down. I like McGee. I just hope Flip doesn't break his spirit by punishing him for not fitting his square frame into a round hole.

If Blatche were more physical and rebounded better, he could be Hakeem-lite, but I don't think it's in him. Like Bill Parcells says, "If they don't bite as puppies, they won't ever bite!".

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Larry,

Apples and oranges.

1) Hinrich was under contract and Livingston wasn't. So in this case Hinrich had no leverage and Livingston had ALL the leverage. So, adding two plus two and coming up with four, Livingston's desires mattered and Hinrich's didn't.

2) Livingston's knee blew up, complete with nerve damage and kept him off the court for what, two years? Contrast that with Seraphin who's already back on the court doing basketball drill/workouts mere weeks after his surgery. There is no link to be drawn between Livingston and Seraphin.

3) The Wizards publicly stated their desire to keep Livingston around. I repost the link for you here:

Saunders believes that the Wizards will make it a priority to retain his services when this season is over. "No question, we'd like to have him," he said. "We're feeling that this summer can be big for him, working with him, with his strength to get him back. That's one of the reasons we signed him for the year."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2010/04/shaun-livingston-discusses-his.html

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Harry

I don't think Hinrich is a better 3pt shooter than Gil. I think you have to consider the "degree of difficulty" with Gil. In the past, teams played Gil to score, sitting on his shot as he is more dangerous with his scoring than with his passing.

Kirk is a more well rounded point guard than Gil and teams never sat on his shot, they would play the pass first, making him more open for his shot.

The thing is, we are not talking about them playing point, unless it is in relief of Wall. And that is what I think Kirk's role will be, backing up Kirk. Gil will be the 2 as long as he is a wizard. Nick is the backup 2.

The other thing is, I don't think it is in anybody's best interest to rehabilitate Gil by making him a 6th man. Don't forget we are talking about a top scorer in the league, not a Vinnie Johnson.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Also, in no way was I saying Dray could be Blatche. I am just saying the 7ft guy playing center with finesse post skill playing with a taller, court running finesse power forward. Blatche can be Hakeem offensively, but is nowhere near him defensively.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

The other thing is, I don't think it is in anybody's best interest to rehabilitate Gil by making him a 6th man. Don't forget we are talking about a top scorer in the league, not a Vinnie Johnson.


Posted by: G-Man11

Let's keep it in the proper context. He was top scorer when he dominated the ball. He won't be doing that now. The Wizards owe it to themselves to find the best fit for him given their short- and long-term goals for Wall and the team in general. If it means putting him in a role in which he may be more effective or comfortable, I'm all for it.

Gil's basketball life is changing this fall. Do you see any reasons why it definitely would not work to bring him off the bench?

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Also teams rarely played up near the 3-pt line on Arenas when he was healthy as he could easily get by that first defender and would cut through the heart of the defense for an easy pullup jumper or take it to the rack for the "and 1". The three pointer was always there for Gil so I think the Hinrich/Arenas 3-pt% comparison is meaningful.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I agree. But I think Wall will end up not sacrificing his game a lil too to play with Gil. Back when Detroit had Isaiah and Dumars, Isaiah and Dumars sacrificed their games for the betterment of the team. That did not make Isaiah less of a player, but both had to do it. The same is going to happen in Miami. They are going to have to sacrifice their games.

It is not like Gil has never played the 2, and he has played it in the NBA too. Gil has proven that he is a team player. He shared the ball in the past. He played off the ball at times too. What Gil gets blamed for is being ball-dominant on a team with NO low-post, double demanding, big man. All the bigs he played with were barely better than the "self-check" level.

Wall is a better, natural point guard, but offense was never the Wizards problem with Gil at point. Gil had problems defensively at point, but who doesn't when you can't touch a ball-handler who is not posting up. Wall, until proven otherwise, will not be able to keep point guards out of the lane either.

The real problem was who should Gil have passed to outside of the Big 3? McGee is way more naturally athletic than Haywood. I would not have been setting up Haywood for the oop either. Haywood has practiced and made himself a lil better offensively, but let's not forget how putrid offensively Haywood and Etan were back then. The same could be said about everybody the Big 3 played with. They were barely better than self-check.

Yes, I am concerned with Gil guarding 2's, but not as much as him guarding the point. Kobe Bryant, is a great defender. He did not shut down Ray Allen, and Ray has age on him, he aint the Ray that played in Milwaukee by a long stretch. That goes with the position. Gil will never be, say Bruce Bowen, but I would never start Bowen over Gil, no matter who is on the team.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I recall Gil barely losing the 3pt contest to Dirk, and the contest was controversial for some reason that I don't remember a few years ago. And when you factor in Gil has 4pt range, not just 3pt range, I think Gil is the better 3-shooter. I know the contest doesn't mean anything, but Ray Allen, Dirk, Larry Bird are all great 3-shooters. Gil could have beaten Dirk if not for the controversy.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

And we aren't even talking about shooting the 3 during clutch time, because Kirk can't touch Gil in the clutch.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I googled the controvery of the 3pt contest. As it turns out, Gil beat Ray Allen's score in the contest that year. Gil ended up second to Dirk. But this is the quote from the site:

Nowitzki almost missed the cut himself. His final make of the first round barely counted, tying him with Arenas for second with 14 points. Replays showed the ball was still in his hands when time expired, but there is no review in the contest.

“I looked at the clock, I tried to hoist them up there as quick as I can,” Nowitzki said. “I don’t know if it should have counted.”

He got some help in the finals from Jason Terry, who did his best to influence the outcome from his courtside seat.

“He was rooting for me all the way,” Nowitzki said. “When the guys were shooting in the final round and he was out, he was heckling them from behind.”

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Lol. Leave it to Jason Terry to only play defense when a coach isn't begging him to.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

wow

me: "honey you ready to laugh? Come and look at this. These idiots are comparing Dray Blanche to The Dream!!"

wifey: "ahahahahahahha"

wifey: "I would compare him more to Blantch from Golden Girls RIP"

AHAHAHA!

Posted by: digger76 | July 24, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"Also, I thought Jordan entered the league labelled with high potential, higher than McGee as he is a 7ft and a thicker frame. What he showed was better low-post offense than JaVale, but not defense. He will probably always be better on the offensive block, but McGee should not be a center either in my opinion.posted by gman11"

Not at all. DeAndre Jordan had a strange fall before the draft, based mostly on disappointing play. Most of the draft sites had him going somewhere between ten and twenty, instead of number 35, where he was actually drafted. The magic word seems to have been 'high bust potential', usually a description pasted onto players with poor work habits and immature attitudes.

At the Combine, Jordan measured 6'9.75" in his socks, or more than an inch shorter than McGee. Same difference again in terms of standing reach and no-step jump. When you get to the max vertical leap, Jordan was an outstanding 12 feet, but that's still 3" less than McGee. Of course, if you believe the Wiz, McGee is still growing. He certainly looked a couple inches taller than Jordan on my TV screen, but that can be deceptive.

Seems like the 'bust potential' is quite a bit less than when he was drafted, at least. As to realizing his upside, we'll have to wait and see.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"Am I beating a dead horse?" posted by LarryinClintonMd"

I would say beaten, dead, buried, shipped to the glue factory, turned to mucilage, bottled by Elmer's, sold to a ten-year old kid at Wal-Mart, and used to assemble a plastic model of a '34 Ford Phaeton to be exhibited at Show & Tell.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 3:21 PM"

LMAO. Well illustrated, Samson151!

Posted by: ArmChairQB | July 24, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Just to chime in on Arenas/Hinrich debate, I've always maintained that Arenas is a natural SG who just happened to be an above-average dribbler/playmaker for the position. Now we'll see if he can play it well enough to man the 2 spot essentially full-time.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | July 24, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Arenas is a natural 2 guard. He was one at Arizona. I am very excited about the Wizards backcourt. Hinrich will fit in perfectly with this team. He did the same thing in Chicago with Rose, and Gordan a few years back.

Posted by: digger76 | July 24, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

"The Clipper game where DeAndre Jordan gave JaVale the blues. To me that game showed that, for all his talent, JaVale still has a long way to go and is NOT a center. The Wizards still don't have decent center on the roster, but that makes them like just about every other team in the NBA.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse "

It shouldn't be to anyone's surprise that JaTravel has problems when going against big physical centers. Even with that, no one should get too excited over what JaTravel did against future D-league players.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

"Hinrich has never played with a defense focused to contain him. Gilbert has always played with the cheating towards him. So to throw stats out there like that is not taking into consideration everything. Who as a backcourt partner has Hinrich made look better than he really is?

Gilberts presence alone will open things up for Wall. The same for Wall. People can harp on the defensive side of it, but rarely has Gil been outplayed at his position, and that includes Hinrich. Those 2 guards will have as much problems with Gil as he does with them. If Gil is posted and gets into foul trouble, that is when you have Nick and Kirk.

Gil has proven to be a difference maker. Hinrich is not. If Hinrich was still in Chicago, he would be a backup, just as last year.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse "

Gilby's success is based on the high volume of shots he takes, and his ability to make his free throws during regular season games. On average, Gilby takes about double the # of shots Hinrich takes.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"I recall Gil barely losing the 3pt contest to Dirk, and the contest was controversial for some reason that I don't remember a few years ago. And when you factor in Gil has 4pt range, not just 3pt range, I think Gil is the better 3-shooter. I know the contest doesn't mean anything, but Ray Allen, Dirk, Larry Bird are all great 3-shooters. Gil could have beaten Dirk if not for the controversy.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse "

Sour grapes my friend. You either win or lose, and Gilby lost.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich hits a higher 3-pt% than Arenas and averages more assists than Arenas. Don't tell anyone, but those are stats that show offensive value.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 11:56 AM

Why does everyone talk about Hinrich as if it's 2006? He averaged 4.5assts last year compared to Gil's 7.2. Kirk scored 10.9pts/night compared to Arenas' 22.6. On no level is Hinrich a better offensive player than Gil, none. The flipside is of course on no level is Gil as good a defender.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Hope this helps keep you from artificially raising expectations and then spending the rest of the season complaining that they haven't been met.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 12:58 PM

So expecting that our #17 pick doesnt spend the season in the DLeague is an artificially high expectation? Sorry, but I'd say your expectations are too low.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Wow! In this post Mike's seems like he's trying to put "Lipstick on a Pig." Does he work for the Wizards now? Saying how it's such a great trade because Chicago was not able to get Bosh and James with there open cap space. Really? Also, the Wizards view that they only spent $3 million dollars for Kirk. There math must be off because they forget to mention the $8 million in 2011-12. Using their math it would seem like they paid $11 million for a back point guard (although we all know they took on $17 million in additional salary). We see now with the signing of Steve Blake the going rate for back-up point guards is $4 million per year. It seems like the Wiz got ripe off to me. I believe if you pay $11 or $17 million (feel free to pick a figure) you should at the least have gotten into the back half of the lottery. Instead they got the 17th pick and took a project. Lastly this trade put the nail in Randy Foye. I wasn't a big believer in that trade last year for the 5th pick, however, I would prefer to see Foye and Livingston on this team instead of Kirk.

To me this is the best statement of all. "Grunfeld actually got a player that he has coveted since Hinrich entered the NBA out of Kansas in 2003." Well it's 2010 now and he's a 30 year old point guard and in a Wizards uniform he'll get a foul called for every tough, gritty, and hard-nosed play he makes this year. Just like Christian Laettner did when he was in a Wizards uniform.

I still hate this trade. I hope Frenchie turns into a great player so I can eat my words I've just written.

Posted by: 33dgriffin | July 24, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Another reason I think Arenas should be coming off the bench is that he fully believes you outscore the other team to win. Flip/Ernie/Ted? are saying that you keep the other team from outscoring you to win, i.e., they want a defense-oriented team. Hinrich fits better with the latter philosophy as a starting, set-the-tone kind of guy.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 12:54 PM

Well this must be the "Ernest Grunfeld Era" (nod to melodious_thunk) because under Pollin Ernie sure seemed to have a thing for 'tweeners not known for their defense.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | July 24, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Gilby's success is based on the high volume of shots he takes, and his ability to make his free throws during regular season games. On average, Gilby takes about double the # of shots Hinrich takes.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

If you understood anything about ball, you would undersyand that Ninrich can only get his set shot with adequate timimg due to limited athleticism. For you to contend that Hinrich is as good a ballp[layer as Gilbert is idotic, irregardless of your personal bias. Himrich is a solid (albeit overpaid) backup role player.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 24, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

they want a defense-oriented team. Hinrich fits better with the latter philosophy as a starting, set-the-tone kind of guy.

Posted by: harrybalz | July 24, 2010 12:54 PM

This issue with this is playing Hinrich big minutes at 2 matches him up defensively with guys he cant be expected to check that well. One solution would be to have Wall check the 2s and put Hinrich/Arenas on the PGs...but that is really putting our prized rook through the ringer right out of the gates.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

"Why does everyone talk about Hinrich as if it's 2006? He averaged 4.5assts last year compared to Gil's 7.2. Kirk scored 10.9pts/night compared to Arenas' 22.6. On no level is Hinrich a better offensive player than Gil, none. The flipside is of course on no level is Gil as good a defender."

Posted by: divi3

i don't think anyone has argued that hinrich is the better offensive player, not even mrs. hinrich. hinrich's career 3-pt percentage is higher than gil's and he brings better defense to the table. that said, i don't see a scenario where gil doesn't start the season as the starting shooting guard, even if nick young becomes the next rip hamilton in training camp. if gil proves to be disruptive (and i'm not saying he will be), then changes will be made.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 24, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

"Well this must be the "Ernest Grunfeld Era" (nod to melodious_thunk) because under Pollin Ernie sure seemed to have a thing for 'tweeners not known for their defense."

Posted by: ArmChairQB

do you really think that pollin was THAT involved (or involved at all) with selecting free agents?

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 24, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

"If you understood anything about ball, you would undersyand that Ninrich can only get his set shot with adequate timimg due to limited athleticism. For you to contend that Hinrich is as good a ballp[layer as Gilbert is idotic, irregardless of your personal bias. Himrich is a solid (albeit overpaid) backup role player."

Posted by: NewManagement

it's pretty hard to spell a guy's name three different ways in a pretty short post, but you nailed it!

hinrich is not the ballplayer that gil is but hinrich has shown that he can be effective without having the ball in his hands most of the time. gil has not shown he can do this. yet.

i'm willing to see gil at least get the chance to show what he can do (unless that knee goes out on him again while he's showing it, in which case we're screwed in terms of trying to trade him). this is one thing that we won't know until we know, imho.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 24, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

"So expecting that our #17 pick doesnt spend the season in the DLeague is an artificially high expectation? Sorry, but I'd say your expectations are too low.Posted by: divi3"

Here's what you actually said, o ye of the impaired short-term memory:

"Seraphin had better be able to come in, play D and rebound this year. I mean come on, we traded up to get the guy at 17th knowing full well he has little-to-no offensive game.Posted by: divi3"

To which I replied:
"Wasn't the trade really Kirk Hinrich and the draft rights to 20 year old power forward Kevin Seraphin plus cash considerations, in exchange for the draft rights to 25 year old power forward Vladimir Veremeenko?...What team with salary cap room wouldn't have made that swap? So why not be patient with Seraphin?" Posted by: Samson151

In other words: the team gave up almost nothing to get the kid; he's raw but has obvious potential; the knee apparently needs more time to heal properly -- what sort of feckless idiot would risk that in order to satisfy some arbitrary idea of what he ought to be able to do as a rookie?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

"If you understood anything about ball, you would undersyand that Ninrich can only get his set shot with adequate timimg due to limited athleticism. For you to contend that Hinrich is as good a ballp[layer as Gilbert is idotic, irregardless of your personal bias. Himrich is a solid (albeit overpaid) backup role player.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 24, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse "

What's idiotic is for you to assume that I said Hinrich is a better player. What I did say is that Gilby has a higher scoring average b/c he takes a lot more shots.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

here is the rest of what I said, o ye of selective quoting:

"Which is fine, but only on the assumption his defense and rebounding is there to the extent he can be on the floor this year (contributing and making mistakes)."

Is that really so high an expectation? That he's good enough to play some minutes this year, do a few things, and make mistakes while learning? Not much to ask out of a player we supposedly coveted. I dont think the DLeague does anything for this kid, his whole game is overpowering opponents...matching him up against DLeaguers is no different than watching Javale dunk on Summer league players.

and when you say:

"the knee apparently needs more time to heal properly -- what sort of feckless idiot would risk that in order to satisfy some arbitrary idea of what he ought to be able to do as a rookie?"

Are you suggesting the knee is far worse than the "3-4 week minor injury" and that he may not be ready by camp?? That's a whole different scenario.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

"I dont think the DLeague does anything for this kid, his whole game is overpowering opponents...matching him up against DLeaguers is no different than watching Javale dunk on Summer league players."

LOL I'm looking at a sample D-League schedule and it looks like 52 games in regular season alone. Then there are playoffs. Even a championship. That's a bit different from the live-action video game that Vegas.

If Seraphin needs some games in the D-League, what's the problem? Other than your personal expectations, of course, which are at the root of your complaint.

Seraphin should make the roster and see minutes on the court, provided he's not actually in a body cast. Smart thing would be to allow him to heal up properly rather than risking him to needless injury.

If he needs some games at the lower level, why not? We're probably not going to challenge the Heat, Boston, Orlando and Chicago this season, are we?

If you want bad luck, look at Golden State, which has already learned that its first choice, Epke Udoh, is out with a wrist injury that many suspect he actually sustained right before he was drafted. Estimated recovery is 4-6 months.

"Are you suggesting the knee is far worse than the "3-4 week minor injury" and that he may not be ready by camp?"

I'm suggesting that only a feckless idiot would insist a player coming off injury would return too early, just to satisfy said idiot's expectations.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

By the way, the Knicks' fanz are going wild over the prospect of getting Chris Paul. Walsh has already said the whole team's available except for Amare. The potential deal-killer would be if NO insists they take Emeka Okafor, who has a club-killer contract that would make Gilbert proud.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

"By the way, the Knicks' fanz are going wild over the prospect of getting Chris Paul. Walsh has already said the whole team's available except for Amare. The potential deal-killer would be if NO insists they take Emeka Okafor, who has a club-killer contract that would make Gilbert proud.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse "

I would take a trade of Gilby for Okafor right now.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27mn67f

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

I would take a trade of Gilby for Okafor right now.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27mn67f
Posted by: DC_MAN88

Unfortunately, if NO is trying to get rid of him, they're trying to get rid of a fat contract, not take back a fatter one.

There are things I like about the swap. I would probably leave off Songalia though. I liked him when he was here, he's a smart basketball player and knows his limitations, but the temptation would be for Flip to play him ahead of kids who should get the time.

But man would the DC area lose it's mind with an Arenas for Okafor trade. I think Larry would have a stroke. Okafor brings a lot of great qualities, none of which excite a fan base. And his contract, while better than Gil's, is tough to take.

Just as a player, he'd be a good fit as the third big with Blatche and McGee. He fills in well for whatever weaknesses McGee has right now against stronger players. He also fits EG's profile of former lottery picks. They'd be a better defensive team for sure. But they'd also suddenly be more reliant on Nick Young's ability to score. And lack adequate perimeter threats.

But it's also just a tough sell to trade a guy who still has star potential for a generally average player like Okafor. If you think EG gets grilled on these boards now, I can only imagine what it would be like if he pulled the trigger on this.

I also can't see New Orleans doing it.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

"Unfortunately, if NO is trying to get rid of him, they're trying to get rid of a fat contract, not take back a fatter one.

There are things I like about the swap. I would probably leave off Songalia though. I liked him when he was here, he's a smart basketball player and knows his limitations, but the temptation would be for Flip to play him ahead of kids who should get the time.

But man would the DC area lose it's mind with an Arenas for Okafor trade. I think Larry would have a stroke. Okafor brings a lot of great qualities, none of which excite a fan base. And his contract, while better than Gil's, is tough to take.

Just as a player, he'd be a good fit as the third big with Blatche and McGee. He fills in well for whatever weaknesses McGee has right now against stronger players. He also fits EG's profile of former lottery picks. They'd be a better defensive team for sure. But they'd also suddenly be more reliant on Nick Young's ability to score. And lack adequate perimeter threats.

But it's also just a tough sell to trade a guy who still has star potential for a generally average player like Okafor. If you think EG gets grilled on these boards now, I can only imagine what it would be like if he pulled the trigger on this.

I also can't see New Orleans doing it.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse "

If NO is forced to trade CP, then they will need a "PG," and that may be Gilby. In order for the trade to work monetarily, DSong has to be thrown in.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 12:21 AM | Report abuse

If NO is forced to trade CP, then they will need a "PG," and that may be Gilby. In order for the trade to work monetarily, DSong has to be thrown in.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

They won't need a PG. They have Collison, who proved more than capable last year. They may want one, but it's not a need. Imo, it's unlikely they'd take back Gil's contract regardless. Getting rid of Okafor is about ditching a big contract. Certainly in just a basketball sense, Gil represents better value for his contract, but he also comes with baggage and risks.

As for the money, both teams are under the cap right now so salary matching is not required.

Posted by: ts35 | July 25, 2010 1:54 AM | Report abuse

@DC_MAN88,

Don't you think that your Gilbert Arenas bashing is kind of redundant? We fully recognized that you have nothing good to say about Arenas. We got the message, so give it a brake. Furthermore, the man's name is Gilbert, not Gilby. The whole thing kind of childish.

By the way, the NBA is not a fantasy league. Stop with the silly trade talk.

Posted by: spades72 | July 25, 2010 4:32 AM | Report abuse

"If you understood anything about ball, you would undersyand that Ninrich can only get his set shot with adequate timimg due to limited athleticism. For you to contend that Hinrich is as good a ballp[layer as Gilbert is idotic, irregardless of your personal bias. Himrich is a solid (albeit overpaid) backup role player."
Posted by: NewManagement

it's pretty hard to spell a guy's name three different ways in a pretty short post, but you nailed it!
Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 24, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Theone9 | July 25, 2010 7:11 AM | Report abuse

"@DC_MAN88,

Don't you think that your Gilbert Arenas bashing is kind of redundant? We fully recognized that you have nothing good to say about Arenas. We got the message, so give it a brake. Furthermore, the man's name is Gilbert, not Gilby. The whole thing kind of childish.

By the way, the NBA is not a fantasy league. Stop with the silly trade talk.

Posted by: spades72 | July 25, 2010 4:32 AM | Report abuse "

It's not Gilby bashing. It's Gilby reporting.

Me calling him "Gilby" parallels Gilby calling himself "Agent Zero." He even tried to create a comic strip after himself.

BTW, the NBA IS a fantasy league. Look at how EG has drafted players just to trade them....or how he traded for players just to trade them away....or how he signed players just to let them walk. It's a game.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

BTW, the NBA IS a fantasy league. Look at how EG has drafted players just to trade them....or how he traded for players just to trade them away....or how he signed players just to let them walk. It's a game.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 4:09 PM

A game played by all GMs, not just Grunfeld.

Posted by: gimmedat | July 25, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"A game played by all GMs, not just Grunfeld.

Posted by: gimmedat | July 25, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse "

You win some, you lose some. EG lose all of them.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 25, 2010 5:57 PM

He "win" when he allowed Jared Jeffries to walk. Just one of many.

Posted by: gimmedat | July 25, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

LMAO

"We've always like Kirk, his grittiness, his toughness. He's an outstanding defender," Grunfeld said after the trade was finally approved. "I think with Kirk, you get a solid veteran player who's played both guard spots. He's played with the No. 1 pick before. He's a tough, gritty, hard-nosed competitor"

"Randy [Foye} has shown the ability to create scoring opportunities for himself and his teammates while providing excellent perimeter defense," said Grunfeld after the trade was announced...Foye has experience in playing both the point guard and shooting guard positions and last year he set career-highs in both points and assists with 16.3 points per game and 4.3 assists per game...
http://www.nba.com/wizards/news/millerfoye_091109.html

rickyrubio > jwoww

Posted by: prescrunk | July 25, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

What EG has a love affair with is lottery busts.
Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 10:02 AM

lol and going to the lottery

Posted by: prescrunk | July 25, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

If you guys spent less time concerning yourselves with how much money Arenas makes you can probably better assess his value to the team. Injuries are an uncontrollable part of the game, but when healthy Arenas is worth every pennny. Like a bunch of numbers-crunching knuckle-heads, how soon you forget the $16M he gave back to the team to get Jamison signed, but of course no one ever mentions it. As far as Hinrich replacing Arenas- forget it. Chicago was nore than glad to unload Kirk. Hopefully he will find a nice fit as a back up to John Wall, and possibly some minutes in the shooting guard spot. Lastly, if dollars are a thorn in your flesh talk to the owners about salaries, maybe this will help rid yourselves of the jealousy over well-paid NBA players.

Posted by: esmith4 | July 26, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

If Gil has his head on somewhat right, the three of them make a solid two guard rotation, with Wall and Gil averaging 35-40 minutes and KH the leftover. But of course, frontcourt is a problem.

Posted by: shanks1 | July 26, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Arenas is simply going to be the most overpaid spot up shoooter in the NBA.

Face it. The offense will not be flowing through Gilbert and he will have to become a second option.

That said, I could see Arenas average 16 or 17 points a game in that role as the #2 guard and still be productive.

His days of taking 30 shots and scoring 25 points per game are over.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | July 26, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

What EG has a love affair with is lottery busts.
Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 24, 2010 10:02 AM

What fool 88 has is a luv affair with his Mom's bust...sucky sucky white man can't jump?

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 26, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

@esmith4: THANKS!!!!!

Posted by: garrybrown | July 26, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company