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Shaun Livingston agrees to terms with Charlotte

After using a two-month respite in Washington to revitalize his once-promising career, Shaun Livingston has found a new home in Charlotte. The 6-foot-7 point guard, who bounced back from a career-threatening knee injury three years ago, agreed to a three-year deal with the Bobcats worth $10.5 million, according to a league source, but only the first two years and $7 million are guaranteed.


Thanks for everything, but it seems you have a new No. 2. I'm out. (Photo by Ned Dishman/NBAE for Getty Images)

The agreement was first reported by the Charlotte Observer.

Livingston, the fourth pick of the 2004 NBA draft, latched on to the Wizards on Feb. 26 -- three years to the day that he tore three knee ligaments in a horrific injury while playing for the Los Angeles Clippers. His injury occurred against the Bobcats.

He played 28 games, including 18 starts, for the Wizards last season and averaged 9.2 points and 4.5 assists. But with the presence of Gilbert Arenas, the selection of top overall pick John Wall and the addition of point guard Kirk Hinrich from Chicago, there weren't many minutes available for Livingston. The Bobcats needed point guard help after Raymond Felton signed with the New York Knicks last week. Livingston is expected to back up D.J. Augustin but could push for the starting job.

By Michael Lee  |  July 14, 2010; 7:48 PM ET
 
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Next: Looking back at Wizards summer league

Comments

Great for Shaun, but does anyone know what MJ is doing down there? His moves don't make sense.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 14, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

mj is doing what he does...terrible gm moves

Posted by: merajc86 | July 14, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

If Shaun can stay healthy, he could become the starter. I was hoping he would sign with the Wiz. He and Heinrich would make a very good back up tandem.

Posted by: Bailey51 | July 14, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Here's some good news: Al Harrington is not coming to Washington. He says he's signing with the Nuggets.

The Wiz are listed as one of five teams interested in Ronnie Brewer. Others include the Jazz, who traded him to Memphis last season.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 14, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

IN EG WE TRUST!

You gotta love it:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wasmintrade062309

Trading away Opech (EG pick), DSong (EG FA), Etan (EG resign to mega contract), and 5th pick for Foye (gone) and MMIller (gone).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5380556

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 14, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

He played 28 games, including 18 starts, for the Wizards last season and averaged 9.2 points and 4.5 assists. But with the presence of Gilbert Arenas, the selection of top overall pick John Wall and the addition of point guard Kirk Hinrich from Chicago, there weren't many minutes available for Livingston.

You see, statements above is what makes loosers out of teams. This why the Washington Redskins my team have sucked so badly for years. They penciled guys into starting positions and those guys never earned those starting slots on the field and in practice.

Now how does anyone know that Livingston's minutes would be minimal because Hinrich is here. The last I checked he hasn't played one minute for the Wizards.

In my opinion he cannot beat out Sean Livingston at the point guard position. So who in the Wizard organization has or had already come to the conclusion that Hinrich is ahead of and better than Livingston.

Penciling guys in when they haven't competed on the floor with and against each other is a sure fire way to suck/be loosers.

Maybe it might ge a good decision to not pursue Livingston because you already made a deal for Hinrich.

But, from where I sit, I would have gambled on Livingston as my backup for Wall instead of Hinrich.

Signing Livingston would have really signaled a new Washington direction for me, but automatically assuming that Hinrich is a better solution than without Hinrich having played one minute for the Wizards is too much like the same old Wizards.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 14, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 14, 2010 9:10 PM |

We get it. You hate EG. He sucks. He should be fired. He should jump off a bridge. Point taken. Now, do you ever stop piling on and dragging up the past? What a flippin' downer you are. You and a select few other folks make this blog almost unbearable @ times.

Posted by: akmed0 | July 14, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion he cannot beat out Sean Livingston at the point guard position. So who in the Wizard organization has or had already come to the conclusion that Hinrich is ahead of and better than Livingston.

LarryInClintonMD.

Uhhh...Shaun Livingston can't shoot much outside 10 feet. Yes, he distributes the ball better, but I'll take Kirk, thank you. Besides, the Kirk deal was set up to grab Seraphin, so the question becomes is Shaun better than Kirk AND Seraphin. Not thinking we'll find that out any time soon.

Posted by: creativefunk | July 14, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Seems easy to coach a team, or run a team, or own a team. These blogs used to be a good exchange of intelligent talk. Now, both here and the Skins' blog, it's just random banter where posters either swear they know everything, or just go on and on aimlessly about the same subjects even if it's off topic...

At least this is still a decent place to read some real journalism not churned out by the clowns at ESPN...

Posted by: -CN- | July 14, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

@L I C
Livingston arrived in the NBA with more hype, but seems to be a risk at this point b/c of his injury. I think that's why Hinrich was preferred over Livinston, that and the Bulls may have tossed in the 17th pick to have a team take Hinrich's salary off the books...

Posted by: -CN- | July 14, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

WIZ should sign SINGLETON, but I've got a feeling they feel they have the same player in BOOKER, so they probably won't extend JAMES an offer. DAMM, I really liked that guy. LIVINGSTON too, but I assumed he was gone after the moves this past month.

So, is CARTIER MARTIN to be our replacement for JOSH HOWARD? M-a-a-a-a-ybe.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 14, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

mj is doing what he does...terrible gm moves

Posted by: merajc86 | July 14, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

No arguement frrom me.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 14, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

shaun livingston sucks, he put up some decent numbers on a bad team. the wizards have had a great offseason letting everyone overpay while building through the draft something no team in this area has tried except for the caps. all wizards fans should be happy we finally have a plan. ronnie brewer would be a great signing, an atheletic team player who is still relatively young

Posted by: billy12 | July 14, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

At least this is still a decent place to read some real journalism not churned out by the clowns at ESPN...

Posted by: -CN- | July 14, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Really!! I would refer you to some other highly-regarded baseball blogs where the information is far superior to the basketball info flow here. But you're probably not a BRAVES fan.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 14, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

RONNIE BREWER sounds about right. What's his contract like?

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 14, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Best of luck to Livingston.

I am confused at the moment about where the Wizards are with regard to filling out their roster. What positions do they need to fill at this point, assuming a 15 player roster?

Apart from Cartier Martin, do any of the summer league free agents stand a chance of making the team?

Posted by: PostSubscriber | July 14, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

So who is the next guy with "upside" that EG is planning on signing? Is he waiting to consult with Tapscott before he makes his next move?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | July 14, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

You see none of the decision made so far has really signaled a new Washington Team.

Why? John Wall was the luck of the ping pong ball.

Here we land a 6' 7" point guard and Kirk "friggin" Hinrich makes him expendable. Why would we make a deal to for Hinrich over Livingston.

There is nothing in that Hinrich deal that can measure up to having Livingston subbing for Wall.

Is the guy from France even here? Have they bought his contract out yet? Does he have a work visa yet?

How can you make a deal that seals the fate of a #4 overall pick in his draft.

Did the Wizards even consider keeping Livingston at all? Appears not. Serapin was who we was after they say when we made the deal.

I guess the way Saunders coaches anybody can run the point. Except for a 6'7" point guard with tremendous upside recovering from a knee injury. A perfect backup for Wall.

I am upset. Serapin and Hinrich makes Livingston expendable???

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 14, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

I like Ronnie Brewer too. I think he could be a good fit here, but I don't think we should overpay for anyone this off-season. Teams are getting panicky. Next year our team makeup will be a lot clearer and we will be in position to make some moves.

Livingston got a good contract, I liked watching him here, but I don't think we should have matched the Bobcats' offer. Especially not for a deep backup on a young team. I think Kirk can hold that down for the next two seasons capably.

Posted by: gconrads | July 14, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Great for Shaun, but does anyone know what MJ is doing down there? His moves don't make sense.
Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 14, 2010 8:16 PM |

I didn't know a loser like you run in Livingston's circle to call him 'Shaun'.

As for what is MJ doing, well lets just say his body of works > than your's 2M times over sanchez dirtbag.

Don't perpetrate man. You lack the skills. It's a given, that your type of DNA & ectodermal tissue color aren't capable of anything.

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 14, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Yeah what do we need with a 6-7 point guard who worked his way back from devastating almost career ending knee injury and displayed excellent court skills and for the most part was a bright spot on an otherwise non descript squad decimated by trades and bad personel moves by one of the "sharpest" front office mind's in the NBA,smart Ernie real smart(LMAO!).

Posted by: dargregmag | July 14, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Signing Livingston would have really signaled a new Washington direction for me, but automatically assuming that Hinrich is a better solution than without Hinrich having played one minute for the Wizards is too much like the same old Wizards.
Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

You're assuming Livingston was willing to come back. In Charlotte, he has the chance to compete for the starting job. He doesn't have that here. Even if Livingston is better than Wall right now, they wouldn't be starting him ahead of Wall. Since Gil is your resurgent star of the future for the Wiz, Livingston isn't taking his minutes either. He certainly has a chance to beat out DJ Augustine.

Aside from that, Hinrich has been in the league a few years now and has played against the Wizards a number of times in different roles. I'm pretty sure they're aware of what Hinrich can and can't do.

Meanwhile, if they had waited to see what Livingston was going to do in FA and had not done the Hinrich deal, if Livingston had still decided to go somewhere else, they would have been left high and dry.

Posted by: ts35 | July 14, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Don't perpetrate man. You lack the skills. It's a given, that your type of DNA & ectodermal tissue color aren't capable of anything.

Posted by: Rocc00

Rocc00, I don't like DCMAN88's opinions, but your comments only color you ignorant, whatever color you may be.

Posted by: ts35 | July 14, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

I don't think they're going for Brewer. They seem to be more interested in a guy who can stroke the 3, and that's not Brewer. He does however get a 'check' in the former lottery pick category.

I would take him, Martin, Morgan or a few others before I would bring in Morrison.

Posted by: ts35 | July 14, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Some perspective on Charlotte's 'trade' of Tyson Chandler for Erick Dampier et al (another salary dump):

"Bobcats general manager Rod Higgins said the Bobcats will either waive Dampier or ...trade him. That would ...clear about $7 million in salary-cap space because they dump Chandler's $12.7 million contract and Alex Ajinca's $1.5 million deal, and take in Carroll ($4.3 million) and Najera ($2.8 million)."

"Before the trade, the Bobcats were only about $3 million shy of the reaching the luxury tax threshold, a payroll figure owner Michael Jordan said they wouldn't exceed."

"Carroll... Charlotte traded to Dallas just 19 months ago, one of eight deals involving 26 players the Bobcats have made since Larry Brown took over as coach at the start of the 2008-09 season. Najera will add depth to Charlotte's frontcourt."



Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Sup with T-Mac?? He could play the 3 for the Wiz...

Posted by: Akiraw | July 15, 2010 12:04 AM | Report abuse

"So, as ESPN's Chad Ford reports, the Bulls -- a team looking for shooters -- have expressed some interest."

"But T-Mac, like other veteran players without a title, could be looking for a ring in South Beach instead."

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:06 AM | Report abuse

"There is nothing in that Hinrich deal that can measure up to having Livingston subbing for Wall."

It's always risky signing guys with a medical history like Shaun Livingston's. His injury was much more dramatic than, say, Arenas'. It's basically taken him three years to work his way back into the league, and it would take about three seconds to wipe all that out. It's a bigger risk than DeJuan Blair was, and almost every team passed on that one.

I for one think Shaun made a wise decision and was fortunate to find a playoff-caliber club that was willing to assume the risk. OK, maybe they would have rather had Calderon, but this is Shaun's big chance to get a playoff check.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 12:09 AM | Report abuse

ts35,

I see and understand what you say and it makes plenty of sense from Livingston's point of view, but it doesn't make sense for the Wizards.

They did not from all indications even make Livingston an offer to even verify if he might have some interest. What if they were shrewd enought to realize that Livingston really has some value?

Negotiate with him, sign him to a contract and then bargain with any team for something in return all with Livingston being aware and apprised with what is going on.

All of this is pure conjecture of course as you well know, but I cannot accept that it appears the Wizards did not even attempt to sign or show there appreciation to a 6'7" point guard whom is arguably the best of all the signings from last year.

What does that say for the Wizards?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 12:12 AM | Report abuse

All of this is pure conjecture of course as you well know, but I cannot accept that it appears the Wizards did not even attempt to sign or show there appreciation to a 6'7" point guard whom is arguably the best of all the signings from last year.

What does that say for the Wizards?

LarryInClintonMD.

Um, considering that that's a lot of (admitted) conjecture on your part....nothing?

Why would Livingston sign with the Wiz to have them trade him instead of being able to choose his own destination and make his own deal? It's a great deal for the Wiz, but puts Livingston's destination out of his control.

As for my own conjecture, once the Hinrich deal was put in place, the Wiz may have talked to Shaun and he may have indicated that he wasn't going to sign with them unless he found no better options. So why offer him a deal? Or maybe they did offer him a deal and he declined. Or EG may just have preferred Hinrich based on some combo of defense, experience and relative health. We'll never know for sure.

But I think it's a mistake to automatically lay at the feet of the Wiz a decision that may not have been theirs to make. And to refer back to your own advice, maybe wait and see what Hinrich brings to the floor before labelling the move a mistake.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Also well put Samson151. Jordan and Brown, Tarheels, you know I wish them well and am happy for them, but at the same time, I am looking at this from the Wizards perspective.

As an organization you have to show that you are on the top of your game. From the outside it just looks like they just let Livingston choose what he wanted without any input from their point of view.

At some point the light needs to turn for this Wizard organization.

Things left unsaid/unknown falls under the umbrella of marketing/publicity etcetera and they lost it re: Livingston.

Winning is a 360 thing. You can't be 180, if you understand where I am coming from.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

"Signing Livingston would have really signaled a new Washington direction for me, but automatically assuming that Hinrich is a better solution than without Hinrich having played one minute for the Wizards is too much like the same old Wizards."

So all those thousands of minutes Hinrich played for the Bulls over the past 7 or so years have no value in determining whether he can help the Wizards? By that logic, teams should only sign players who've already played for them and give no consideration to players who haven't played for them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 12:51 AM | Report abuse

Good move on the part of Charlotte and good news for Livingston. I'm a little surprised at the contract terms, but if he stays healthy and continues to play like he did to close out the season, he'll be a good addition for Charlotte. I wouldn't be surprised to see him overtake Augustin for the starting position.

Posted by: JPRS | July 15, 2010 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Lordy, Gani Lawal can ball. I have big expectations for Booker given how good Lawal looks and we could have taken him and another player with the picks we had.

If he stays healthy, Livingston is unquestionably a better PG than Hinrich in my book. It's not even that close, and considering the price it's just silly.

But who knows if Shaun's knee holds up and therein lies EGs thinking I am guessing.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:14 AM | Report abuse

oh, and Cousins is for fricking real. No doubt about it, the degree of pure power, footwork, and passing ability this kid has is undeniably #1 overall material. He's going to be the steal of the decade at 5th, unless all that attitude stuff turns out to be legit.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:19 AM | Report abuse

and i'll tell you right now Alonzo Gee is better than anyone currently playing in the French Pro-A league. This guy can play, and it's a shame he didnt end up with us for whatever reason. He's a player that would have made Nick Young better or pushed him off the team, rather than this nonsense of considering Adam Morrison or whatever.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:25 AM | Report abuse

If he stays healthy, Livingston is unquestionably a better PG than Hinrich in my book. It's not even that close, and considering the price it's just silly.

But who knows if Shaun's knee holds up and therein lies EGs thinking I am guessing.

Posted by: divi3

Unless of course, it's not EG's thinking at issue at all, but rather Livingston's...as in waiting for a situation where he would have a chance to compete to start, which he unquestionably would not have had here.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 1:25 AM | Report abuse

Unless of course, it's not EG's thinking at issue at all, but rather Livingston's...as in waiting for a situation where he would have a chance to compete to start, which he unquestionably would not have had here.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 1:25 AM

2yr/$7mill? For a guy with that horrific a knee injury, I have a really hard time believing he wouldnt have signed here for a bit more money if Hinrich wasnt already signed. Livingston knows better than anyone it could all end in a gruesome instant.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:28 AM | Report abuse

At the end of last season Livingston stated that he wanted big money and that he felt he didn't owe Washington anything for giving him a chance. As the free agency period went on, after the draft and trade for KH he stated that he may have an interest in returning, no one was probably giving him much attention at the time. Either way paying a back-up guard 3.5 million after paying Kurt H. millions would have been foolish. Does anyone disagree that once we made the trade, paying a backup 3.5 million was out of the question. He will compete for a starting job in Charlotte, something he would only have here in the event of an injury. And he would have been discontent. Give management a break, the team looks good in the summer league games. We have some talent, and so do a lot of other teams. The posting is to negative on a daily basis on this blog, Yahoo has a more positive and intelligent conversation usually.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | July 15, 2010 2:01 AM | Report abuse

oh, and Cousins is for fricking real. No doubt about it, the degree of pure power, footwork, and passing ability this kid has is undeniably #1 overall material. He's going to be the steal of the decade at 5th, unless all that attitude stuff turns out to be legit.

Posted by: divi3

Yeah it was awesome the way he dominated, um, Patrick O'Bryant and Greg Stiesma.

There's no question he has game, and without the attitude questions, he would have been a serious #1 pick consideration, but steal of the decade? Can we let him play a regular season game first? How about Lopez at 10 in '08? Roy at 6 or Rondo at 21 in '06? Granger at 17, Lee at 30 in '05? Jefferson at 15 in '04? Stoudemire at 9 in '02? How about Boozer at 34 (rd2)? Tony Parker at 28 in '01? What about some kid named Arenas at 30 (#2 in 2nd round)? At least all of those guys have proven it in the NBA.

But I do agree that if Cousins develops without the attitude, Philly, NJ or Minnesota might regret not taking him. Though each had solid reasons aside from his potential character issue for not taking him. Philly could use him most out of that group, but it's hard to argue right now with taking Turner. New Jersey has a good young center already in Lopez. Don't know if they would play well together. And Minnesota already had virtually the same player in Al Jefferson, who they were already looking to ditch for style-of-play reasons. So drafting a guy that plays a lot like him doesn't necessarily make sense.

That being said, if the character issues turn out to be overblown, given the scarcity of centers, I would have taken him ahead of anyone except maybe Wall.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:10 AM | Report abuse

2yr/$7mill? For a guy with that horrific a knee injury, I have a really hard time believing he wouldnt have signed here for a bit more money if Hinrich wasnt already signed. Livingston knows better than anyone it could all end in a gruesome instant.

Posted by: divi3

You have a hard time believing that a guy who spent 3 years trying to get back to the court would actually like to spend his time on the court? Especially after getting to start at the end of the season for the Wiz and playing very well, you think he wasn't looking to maximize his playing time? Truth is, we have no idea what his priorities were. The only thing that is close to guaranteed was that his chance to be a starter here was pretty close to zero.

In the mean time, he did manage to go to a playoff team with a better coach.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:21 AM | Report abuse

"There's no question he has game, and without the attitude questions, he would have been a serious #1 pick consideration, but steal of the decade? Can we let him play a regular season game first?"

What can I say, I make judgments pretty quickly and this kid's combo of size and skill floors me. I'll say right now as a 19yr old rookie he'll hold his own admirably against DHoward. I think you can actually tell that type of stuff from summer league, despite how much it's downplayed. Of course what I'm saying assumes the attitude stuff turns out to be baseless.

on a different note: CWebb's interview of David Kahn is priceless. Anyone who dislikes EG should listen to that fool speak and be thankful he isnt here. In response to Kahn justifying re-signing Darko by comparing him to Webber...

CWebb: Dont use my name and Darko's in the same sentence.

classic!

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 2:26 AM | Report abuse

What can I say, I make judgments pretty quickly and this kid's combo of size and skill floors me.

Caracter has shown virtually the same size and skill. Since he was taken 45 picks later, wouldn't he be a better steal of the decade?

No one is arguing that Cousins has top level talent and should be a great pro. Just understand that when he does that little shoulder bump in the pros, it won't work as well on DHoward as it does on Patrick O'Bryant.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:36 AM | Report abuse

Livingston wanted out. Most Wiz fans I've talked to (who were still watching at the end of last season) really liked Shaun's performance. No doubt.

I don't blame him for wanting to leave. I couldn't blame anyone for wanting to get out of DC after last season....

However, if we didn't draft a PG #1, I would have expected us to try harder to retain him.

Posted by: msveasey | July 15, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

"and i'll tell you right now Alonzo Gee is better than anyone currently playing in the French Pro-A league."

I wouldn't know, not having seen any of their games. It's 16 teams with the worst performers risking relegation to the B-League, as in soccer. Looks like alums include Nick Batum, Roddy Beaubois. and Johan Petro. Recognizable US names include former D-League star Anthony Roberson (Florida), who played a little at Golden State and was released by the Bulls in 2009, and Taj Gray, who starred at Oklahoma a few years back. Most of the leading scorers are US-grown, mostly players in their mid-twenties.

It's not the Italian League, but respectable, I think. Known for producing some pretty physical play.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

"What can I say, I make judgments pretty quickly and this kid's combo of size and skill floors me."

DeMarcus Cousins is very impressive. Thing that would concern me is his conditioning. Body fat at the Combine was 16% versus Caracter's 12%, and that was after a couple months of dieting. Plus he averaged less than 25 minutes at Kentucky.

You know that pattern where a rook starts out strong in the regular season and then hits a wall somewhere along the way? Might happen to DeMarcus if he's forced to play major minutes.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Where Cousins got lucky was in going to a team with a PG who plays very like John Wall. Cousins really blossomed last season, way beyond the expectations of the Kentucky staff. My guess is Wall had a lot to do with that. That along with the advantage of reduced minutes on a team that often blew opponents out.

Where we saw DeMarcus' flaws was against West Virginia. He had some difficulty getting up and down the court on defense, then got in foul trouble and spent too much time off the court. The more physical NBA style should help him but he will also get a fair number of calls against him.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

divi3, The C Webb comment was priceless...

Larry, Wow, I thought you'd be the first to see that the Wall era means that the Wiz are going to be scrapping on defense and then running out and filling lanes on the break.

I really pulled for Livingston last year. Great comeback story. But it's pretty clear that he's not geared to running up and down the floor. Looks to me like he waited out Felton to see where his best opportunity was. Everybody had him pegged for the Knicks, but I think he'd been a plowhorse in that system.

For Shaun Charlotte and Larry Brown are a good fit. Walk it up, protect the ball, run the set offense, shut down the opposition running game, and force the pace to a crawl.

Livingston will excell at that, I'd predict he'll be the starter by the Allstar break, Larry loves points that grind it out and run "his offense" HIS way and protect the ball.

I'll put up with some of Wall's turnovers if he's doing it forcing an uptempo style of play. There hasn't been an NBA team in years that has employed a fast breaking offense that is sprung by playing shutdown D in years.

With the drafting of Seriphan and Booker, and trading for Hinrich, Leonsis signaled that he's looking for guys to play D and fill the lanes on the break.

Like it or not Seriphan is the key to this, he's got the body to develop and tude into a physical NBA 4 or 5. Now we just got to see if it can happen. In the limited film from the Nike Allstar game it looks like he was handling Big Cous' pretty well.

There's a lot riding on those big shoulders...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 15, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

I personally feel the Wizards made the right choice with getting Hinrich. I watch every game and although Livingston showed some skills Livingston was bad on defense and could not keep up with faster point guards backpedaling or moving side to side. The Wizards are looking to get tougher and Hinrich is a tough defensive player. He is also a good guy to have in the locker room and around John Wall.

How many times have we seen Hinrich lock down on us defensively? The Wizards signed him for defense and toughness which seems to be a huge change from previous years.

Posted by: washwizfan | July 15, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

I could honestly care less where Livingston goes.

All he is ever going to be is a career back-up. I think they over paid for the guy.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 15, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Livingston wants to be a starting PG in this league. With the Wizards picking Wall, Livingston was looking at relief/garbage minutes w/ the Wizards. Who'd you rather be competing for minutes w/, John Wall or DJ Augustine? Next subject....

Posted by: randysbailin | July 15, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Geeez, I was afraid that this would happen. I was hoping that Grunfeld would have signed Shaun Livingston. It would have been arguably the best guard rotation in the league with; Wall and Arenas, Livingston and Heinrich. Bummer.

Posted by: carterm1 | July 15, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"Livingston will excell at that, I'd predict he'll be the starter by the Allstar break, Larry loves points that grind it out and run "his offense" HIS way and protect the ball."

I'm not a Larry Brown follower, but doesn't he prefer scoring from his PG? The ones I remember are Iverson and Billups. Shaun is not a scorer and has been pretty much helpless from the arc. Augustin is better. I noticed Brown's interest in Calderon, who's a 40% shooter from outside and 48% overall.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

"I'll say right now as a 19yr old rookie he'll hold his own admirably against DHoward. I think you can actually tell that type of stuff from summer league, despite how much it's downplayed."

Didn't Nick Young dominate in the summer league one year? And didn't he then go on to be his same old inconsistent, under-achieving self the following season? I rest my case.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 15, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Apparently Larry Brown was the one who nixed the real for Calderon. As for Larry Brown, I think he likes pure PGs but has been stuck with scoring pgs where ever he went. With Billups, he turned him into more of a true guard...

I really do like the signing for the Bobcats...but they still are not that good...

But besides the point:
Posted by: Rocc00 | July 14, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Don't be a d-bag. MJ has been a terrible GM. His one decent move was when he unloaded Juwan Howard's contract. His work ethic as a President/GM has been foul. Remember, trading Rip for Stackhouse? Drafting Kwame...He set this franchise back like 5 years. Best move Pollin ever did was put down his iron fist and let Jordan go!

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Apparently Gerald Green is playing for LA in the summer league, hoping somebody will invite him to camp after a year in Russia. He's an athletic 6'8" swingman with a pretty good outside shot (36% career). Gerald was part of that Garnett trade that seems to have derailed his career -- he's bounced around since.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

"Apparently Larry Brown was the one who nixed the real for Calderon"

From the National Post, July 13:

"The [Calderon to Charlotte] deal was first thrown into doubt on Monday afternoon, when multiple sources told the National Post not to expect the deal to go through during the day, odd for such a widely reported trade. On Monday night, Yahoo! Sports reported that Bobcats owner Michael Jordan was having second thoughts about shipping out Chandler, whose US$12.75-million contract expires after this season. There have also been reports that Bobcats coach Larry Brown was nonplussed with the idea of losing Chandler without obtaining interior help in return."

"Calderon...has three years and US$29-million left on his contract. If that end of the deal had gone through, the Raptors would have saved an additional US$4-million in long-term commitments, as Diaw’s contract expires after 2012."

"Prior to this deal, Colangelo insisted that he would not hesitate to bring both of his point guards, Jarrett Jack and Jose Calderon, back to Toronto for next season. However, Barbosa’s impending arrival likely changes that."

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Samson151, Ole' Larry's been about every where and has had a wide variety of points.

Years ago in his ABA days he wore jumpsuits and his teams were run and gun.
Now he wears 3 pc suits and his teams crawl with the ball.

One thing's always been consistant, he hates turnovers and he's always big on offensive efficency. His offense is an extension of his defense, crawling the ball cuts down on the number of times his D has to stop a team.

He does put a lot of his offense on his point's shoulders, that's why I think Livingston was attracted to go there.
GM


Posted by: flohrtv | July 15, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5377055

But sources told ESPN.com on Tuesday that Charlotte withdrew from that trade largely for two reasons: Calderon has a 10 percent trade bonus in his contract (which has nearly $30 million remaining over the next three seasons) and Bobcats coach Larry Brown was not in favor of the deal.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"Prior to this deal, Colangelo insisted that he would not hesitate to bring both of his point guards, Jarrett Jack and Jose Calderon, back to Toronto for next season. However, Barbosa’s impending arrival likely changes that."

Don't see why Barbosa's arrival would change the status for Jack and Calderon sine Barbosa isn't a PG.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"I'm not a Larry Brown follower, but doesn't he prefer scoring from his PG? The ones I remember are Iverson and Billups. Shaun is not a scorer and has been pretty much helpless from the arc. Augustin is better. I noticed Brown's interest in Calderon, who's a 40% shooter from outside and 48% overall. "

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 9:03 AM

He won't turn down scoring from the PG spot, but his main thing is getting the team into its offense and controlling the pace. Mark Jackson was probably the prototypical Brown PG. Under Brown, Iverson played primarily (almost exclusively) at SG. Eric Snow was the PG. Billups was primarily a scorer before he and Brown hooked up, but became much more of a floor general under LB.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Also, he likes big PGs...Billups Eric Snow and now Livingston

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Honestly, aside from the love affair with his size and the lingering wisps of hype from his NBA entrance, it's hard to see what the fascination is with Livingston. He's a serviceable NBA PG, nothing more (and potentially much less if his knee gives out). He played reasonably well and put up modest numbers in a limited role down the stretch of a lost season for a bad team, but nothing he did screamed "must have game changer."

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"One thing's always been consistant, he hates turnovers and he's always big on offensive efficency."

He should like Livingston then, because he's never turned the ball over very much (career is 4.4 assists to 1.9 TOs).

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

"He played reasonably well and put up modest numbers in a limited role down the stretch of a lost season for a bad team..."

Here's what I found extraordinary about the guy's performance in Washington: 26 games, 18 starts, 25.6 minutes per game, and 89 field goals in 215 attempts -- without ever hitting a single 3 point shot.

Didn't hit one during his OKC and Miami stints either. Next one he hits will be his first since '06-07.

Now that's consistency.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

With Livingston, I think people will have to just agree to disagree. Personally, I loved the way he played last year. Esp. after he got his legs under him. Apparently (by the failures of Gil and foye) it is not easy to run Flip's offense, but Livingston did an admirable job. Even the last few games, he was putting up good numbers against good players. However, I can see why people say he is nothing more then a serviceable PG (with no more explosion and injury concern). I think others, like me, can see that his size combined with his play making ability can will allow him to be the general of a good team.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

You can't really blame Livingston who signed in Charlotte for more money than the wizards would have given him. Livingston would have to compete for minutes with Wall, Hinrich, and Arenas. i'm not that surprised but I'm waiting to hear about Josh Howard

Posted by: jefferu | July 15, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Can we make a new rule that you can't call anyone a "loser" if you can't spell "loser"? Because the irony is just too much, know what I mean, Larry?

Also, speaking of irony, Rocc00 gets no pushback at all (except from ts35) for making a totally racist and ignorant comment at 11:14pm, and yet the guy gets called a "d-bag" for suggesting that MJ might have had more imput on the Calderon deal than Brown. Yea, priorities!

Posted by: Urnesto | July 15, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Urnesto | July 15, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

well no, I called him a d-bag about the other stuff...if it was a basketball opinion, why would i call him a d-bag for that??? common sense people, common sense

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

In other news-----
UPPER MARLBORO, Md. (AP) - Cleveland Cavaliers guard Delonte West has reached a plea agreement with prosecutors on weapons and traffic charges.
A spokesman for Prince George's County State's Attorney Glenn Ivey says the NBA player will plead guilty to carrying concealed weapons and transporting loaded weapons. His deal says he'll do court-supervised electronic monitoring, complete community service and undergo psychological counseling.

Posted by: VBFan | July 15, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I feel much safer knowing he's being "monitored".

Posted by: VBFan | July 15, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

But sources told ESPN.com on Tuesday that Charlotte withdrew from that trade largely for two reasons: Calderon has a 10 percent trade bonus in his contract (which has nearly $30 million remaining over the next three seasons) and Bobcats coach Larry Brown was not in favor of the deal.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 9:52 AM

Buyer's remorse happens all the time, but it seems like the ink wasnt even dry on Calderon's deal before the Raptors regretted it and started talking about trying to trade him. Kind of weird to commit that much money to a guy and then immediately not want him anymore.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Even Chicago thinks Hinrich is better than Livingston. Well not in so many words but...

The Bulls were not able to land LeBron James, Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh, but they did add Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver.

All in all, Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf has only one regret since free agency started.

"I regret the fact that we lost Kirk Hinrich," Reinsdorf told the Daily Herald. "But if we hadn't moved Kirk, we couldn't have been a player.

"It was clear LeBron wasn't going to come [to the Bulls] by himself. Somebody else had to come with him, so we had to take that shot. It didn't work out, so now I feel bad that Kirk is gone, but I don't regret taking the shot."

Posted by: mjshabba | July 15, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

He played reasonably well and put up modest numbers in a limited role down the stretch of a lost season for a bad team, but nothing he did screamed "must have game changer."

Posted by: kalo_rama

I agree that people are overselling Livingston a bit off of a short sample, but to be fair, over the last 12 or so games, when he got full starter's minutes (37m/g) he averaged 16p, 6.5a, 3.5r. I would call those better than 'modest'. More like average. The impressive thing, despite Samson tweaking him for no 3's, is that over that span he shot .600-ish from the field on a good number of shots/game.

I'll take no threes if he's gonna shoot over .500 from the field. Hard to fault him for not taking shots he knows he's not good at, while also using his best advantage (his height) to get high percentage looks (usually from the elbow as I recall).

Over that span he seemed to regain confidence in his knee and regain some explosiveness. Obviously the question with Livingston now is how he'll be able to hold up over the whole season.

The one thing I will miss (which hopefully Wall will mitigate) was that Shaun was by far the best player (suspended or not) on the roster last season at passing / creating good looks for others.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Also, speaking of irony, Rocc00 gets no pushback at all (except from ts35) for making a totally racist and ignorant comment at 11:14pm, and yet the guy gets called a "d-bag" for suggesting that MJ might have had more imput on the Calderon deal than Brown. Yea, priorities!

Posted by: Urnesto

Honestly Urnesto, most people who spend time on these boards probably realize there's not much point in engaging idiots like that, it only encourages them. Ignoring them usually is the best policy. But stuff like that ticks me off and I forget that.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Maybe next year we can make a run @ a player like Mickael Pietris

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"I regret the fact that we lost Kirk Hinrich," Reinsdorf told the Daily Herald. "But if we hadn't moved Kirk, we couldn't have been a player.

"It was clear LeBron wasn't going to come [to the Bulls] by himself. Somebody else had to come with him, so we had to take that shot. It didn't work out, so now I feel bad that Kirk is gone, but I don't regret taking the shot."

Posted by: mjshabba | July 15, 2010 11:51 AM

I'm sure Hinrich read that and thought "Then why have you been trying to trade me for 3 years?"

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

ts35, efficency is why Larry will like Shaun if Shaun remains healthy. If he's got a decent midrange game Larry will run the offense to get him picks and screens to get off those 5-15' shoots that he excells at.

When Shaun gets open in the middle he's always looking for cutters at the rim. So him and Larry will gat along fine...

The Wiz have got to be counting their blessings that Chicago was desperate enough to get in the LeBron Derby to make the deal that they did...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 15, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Young went to a tattoo parlor last month and decided to get his first bit of ink, setting in motion what he hopes will be a transformation in his maturity and his career.

Quoted from the story this morning - because, yep, getting fresh ink is usually considered a sign of increased maturity. I don't care one way or the other about ink, but seriously, getting a new tat usually doesn't really mark a "transformation in maturity" unless that transformation is downward.

Posted by: Blurred | July 15, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Exactly...If i got into a verbal joust at everyone person with a racist remark (and there have been a few against myself), I don't know where I would be @ this point...as I said plenty of times before, I like discussions about basketball, hence I am on a Wizards board

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Honestly Urnesto, most people who spend time on these boards probably realize there's not much point in engaging idiots like that, it only encourages them. Ignoring them usually is the best policy. But stuff like that ticks me off and I forget that.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse


You can also quietly report it as abuse.

Posted by: Blurred | July 15, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Livingston was off the radar screen once the ping pong balls came up with the Wiz having the No. 1 pick. He had made it clear that his goal was to be in a situation where he could either have a chance to start or play significant minutes. With the Bobcats, he'll likely have a shot at starting if he can beat out D.J. Augustine. If he doesn't start, he'll still get some significant minutes. It was the best move for him and the Wiz. Glad to see he got a multi-year deal with some guaranteed money.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 15, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Blurred | July 15, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I like the part where Nick is getting more serious about preparing for the season. It's just a sad fact of sports that that kind of increased effort is usually in close proximity to the phrase "contract year". Especially because whatever kind of year he has, it's puts the shadow of doubt in my mind as to whether this new dedication is a permanent change, or a one-year thing to get paid.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

SL was a nice band aid last year. His stewardship made the offense not good, but rather, a lot less bad than it was. You could see that there was a gameplan and actual sets that he was facilitating. The improvement from awful to not-aweful was encouraging to anyone who suffered through last season's games. So Thanks to SL for that.

With Wall, Heinric and Arenas to main the point, we don't need to spend on SL. But we could give a min $ to that Chineese dude on the summer league team. He's tall and fast. Or I wouldn't mind Hudson either for the last spot on the bench - he's super-quick.

Posted by: cballer | July 15, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

You can also quietly report it as abuse.

Posted by: Blurred

A much better option, but not as viscerally satisfying :)

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

There was a report last year that he worked pretty hard last off season. He was just not hitting his jumpers when the season started and that put him @ the end of the bench. I am hoping he does pretty well this season....and especially applies himself on the defensive end (he seemed to do that in the summer league).

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

The wizard's back court is not its weakest link right now. Livingston is gone and would not significantly help a Wall, Arenas, Hinrich back court. Our issues are at SF and Center. We need tough bigs to complement Blatche's finesse type game.

Posted by: jefferu | July 15, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"over the last 12 or so games, when [Livingston] got full starter's minutes (37m/g) he averaged 16p, 6.5a, 3.5r. I would call those better than 'modest'. More like average. The impressive thing, despite Samson tweaking him for no 3's, is that over that span he shot .600-ish from the field on a good number of shots/game.I'll take no threes if he's gonna shoot over .500 from the field. Hard to fault him for not taking shots he knows he's not good at, while also using his best advantage (his height) to get high percentage looks..."

Well, I probably don't have to point out the two problems with that argument. First, 12 games is too small a sample. Second, the second time around, teams will have adjusted. If you simply keep him from penetrating, he's not a threat to score at all. He's not a Rondo or Tyreke Evans or Derrick Rose, who can simply outquick people.

I wish him luck.

That Chandler for Dampier trade is a strange one. If as stated the Bobcats go ahead and waive or trade Dampier, they get basically nada in the way of a big man, after sending two of their centers to Dallas. At this point that leaves them with Nazr Mohammed, who'll be 33 in September, and DeSagana Diop, who'll be 29 in January, and Theo Ratliff, who's 104. I guess Tyrus Thomas can take turns in the middle. From a basketball standpoint it doesn't make a lot of sense unless they've got someone in the wings or the trade wasn't really about much more than money saved.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sure Hinrich read that and thought "Then why have you been trying to trade me for 3 years?"Posted by: divi3"

That's what I wondered. It's been something of a running joke in Chicago. He's been continually mentioned in trade discussions. The team clearly found some interest for the guy (or there wouldn't have been so many discussions) and maybe they thought they could get back some value for him. Somehow it never worked out.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Saying Kirk has not played for the Wiz one minute makes no sense. They have seen plenty of Kirk. This is not acquiring a run of the mill rookie who has never played in the NBA. This is a bonafide NBA guard. I know a few Bulls fans who were not happy to see him go. He plays a good all around game.

Posted by: chopin224 | July 15, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

re: Young's contract year...hells yeah it's going to motivate him. I suspect he is going to play suffocating on-ball D this season even if he still gets lost on some rotations. And he added that muscle to get burn at 3 which will probably happen. He'll have his best season in an effort to secure his future...it's the way of the world.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Then we can pick up his option and have him under contract year for another year

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Saying Kirk has not played for the Wiz one minute makes no sense. They have seen plenty of Kirk. This is not acquiring a run of the mill rookie who has never played in the NBA. This is a bonafide NBA guard. I know a few Bulls fans who were not happy to see him go. He plays a good all around game.

Posted by: chopin224 | July 15, 2010 12:48 PM

Hinrich hasnt scored 20pts nor had more than 5assts against the Wizards in over 3yrs. Not since, you guessed it, his contract year. This is why I'm so skeptical about what we're getting in this deal.

However I'm no GM, so hopefully this is just another instance where I'm wrong.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

There was a report last year that he worked pretty hard last off season. He was just not hitting his jumpers when the season started and that put him @ the end of the bench. I am hoping he does pretty well this season....and especially applies himself on the defensive end (he seemed to do that in the summer league).

Posted by: merajc86

He did seem to do that more in Summer League, and he did work hard(er) last offseason. The leap he needs to make is understanding that if he stays focused on defense, he'll stay in the game whether his jumper is falling or not.

He's a guy who should thrive playing with a guy like Wall, and if Blatche can continue to give them low-post scoring. He just has to stay focused on both ends.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"I agree that people are overselling Livingston a bit off of a short sample, but to be fair, over the last 12 or so games, when he got full starter's minutes (37m/g) he averaged 16p, 6.5a, 3.5r. I would call those better than 'modest'. More like average. "

Po-tay-to, po-tat-o. Point is, he didn't do anything so spectacularly indispensable that his departure would be reasonable justification for all the moaning and wailing.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Good for Shaun, he would not have gotten any playing time in Washington anyway.

Posted by: jab31972 | July 15, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Well, I probably don't have to point out the two problems with that argument. First, 12 games is too small a sample.

Pretty sure that was in my first sentence. I was responding directly to Kal's comments that he put up 'modest' numbers 'down the stretch'.

Second, the second time around, teams will have adjusted. If you simply keep him from penetrating, he's not a threat to score at all. He's not a Rondo or Tyreke Evans or Derrick Rose, who can simply outquick people.

He doesn't have to. First, it's not hard in the NBA to get to the elbow. It's being able to do something once you get there. Shaun isn't as quick, but knows how to use his body and his longer stride to get to the midrange area. Teams also some times employ a wacky strategy called setting picks. Second, getting your shot off in the NBA is about creating space to shoot. Some guys, like Paul, use quickness. Other guys like Deron and Billups use strength, angles, etc.. Livingston creates space by being usually at least 4" taller than anyone he's playing against. Third, he'll be playing with (theoretically) a better team and (assuredly) a better coach, who might be able to help him do the things he does well.

I'm not saying he's going to go to Charlotte and shoot .600 for the season, I'm just pointing out that he demonstrated at the end of last year that he can be effective if he stays healthy. Which is why the signing made sense for Charlotte and why some Wizards fans are disappointed.

I wish him luck.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

i'm wit you Kal.the fact that he played better than the rest of the guys we didn't keep doesn't matter. he's average at best, he had a lot more highlights that a wizards PG has had in some years, but all in all I think we're better off with Kirk,Gil and The Great Wall running the point. no reason to crowd the backcourt, unless Gil is still gimpy......really gimpy.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

@dargregmag,

Never thought I'd see the day that you would be singing the praises of Ernest Grunfeld!

Your post makes clear that you were impressed with his acquisition of Shaun Livingston, whom other GMs around the league had left for dead. Now, as is your custom, you phrased your praise in terms of how foolish it was not to re-sign Livingston, but it shows that you're becoming at least partially more cognizant of Ernest's prowess in all things basketball. As I've told you before, on his worst day Ernest can run circles around the other GMs in the NBA.

With Wall and Hinrich at point guard, there was no need to retain Livingston since the Wizards are moving toward a more athletic and defensive-oriented backcourt and we both know that Livingston can't really guard ones or twos. Livingston served his purpose at the right price last year and at the proper level of financial risk. Let me put it in perspective for you--the Bobcats are paying guaranteed money for a guy who would have been the third-string point guard on the Wizards (and I won't go into the compromised status of both of his knees due to the severity of his original knee injury). Let's just wish him a heartfelt "Best of Luck!" and move on.

If you take a look at the Wizards bandwagon, you'll see that since it's early in the rebuilding process there's lots of room. Join us.

In Grunfeld We Trust!!

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 15, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Livingston's height cant be oversold. He's the tallest PG in the entire league and it shows in how well he sees the floor which translates to playmaking and generally commanding the offense well. He posts up other PGs with ease.

The whole deal with him is his knee. If he stays healthy, having him at 2/$7mill is absolutely a steal

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"That Chandler for Dampier trade is a strange one. If as stated the Bobcats go ahead and waive or trade Dampier, they get basically nada in the way of a big man, after sending two of their centers to Dallas. At this point that leaves them with Nazr Mohammed, who'll be 33 in September, and DeSagana Diop, who'll be 29 in January, and Theo Ratliff, who's 104. I guess Tyrus Thomas can take turns in the middle. From a basketball standpoint it doesn't make a lot of sense unless they've got someone in the wings or the trade wasn't really about much more than money saved."
Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 12:38 PM

The Bobcats have been a "frugal" organization for as long as they've been around; new ownership may not have changed that. When Jordan took over the Wiz he had no qualms about putting out some cash to upgrade the facilities and whatnot, but then he wasn't spending his own money.

From a basketball standpoint, however, it does make some sense to think about clearing space and reducing payroll rather than trying to add pieces to win right now because, simply put, the Bobcats have no shot at winning right now. They're an old team whose core players are (a) mostly 30 and over and (B) past the point where they could reasonably be expected to improve much. They're a first round and out caliber team (at best) with the current personnel, and adding pricey role players isn't likely to alter that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Livingston's height can and is being oversold. It's not just about what he gets, but what he gives up. As a starter he might get you 15 or 16 and 6 or 7. But he'll give up more than that against most of the good starting PGs because of his lack of strength and lateral quickness on the defensive end.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sure Hinrich read that and thought "Then why have you been trying to trade me for 3 years?"Posted by: divi3"

That's what I wondered. It's been something of a running joke in Chicago. He's been continually mentioned in trade discussions. The team clearly found some interest for the guy (or there wouldn't have been so many discussions) and maybe they thought they could get back some value for him. Somehow it never worked out.

Posted by: Samson151

It probably has something to do with signing him to a 4 yr / $40M deal in '07 to be their PG-of-the-future, and then having Derrick Rose drop in their laps out of the blue in '08.

The Bulls probably (obviously?) viewed him as an expendable, redundant piece if it could net them the big or star (or both) that they were looking for. The fact that he was still viewed as an effective player and had a good-sized contract that could be used to match up with larger salaried players likely helped.

As the owner said, giving him away for cap space this year at least made them a 'player' in the various FA sweepstakes. And ultimately they likely did make their team better with Boozer, Korver, and maybe another piece to come.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Werent you the guy who was recently arguing the Magic could be interested in Hinrich because he can "see over" Rondo whereas Jameer cant?

Not every player on any team is both a good defender and a good offensive player. Yes, Livingston cant guard quick players- but the flipside is he's virtually immune to on-ball defense. That is a huge upside in a PG.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Delonte West gets a slap on the wrist with the following sentance while Gilbert had the book and the kitchen sink throw at him. Sure Gilbert had a prior offense. There a some other difference, Gilbert making a threat and West guns being loaded.

In Prince George's County Circuit Court, Judge Graydon McKee sentenced West to eight months of electronic monitoring, two years of unsupervised probation, 40 hours of community service and psychological counseling.

...Authorities said the basketball player was carrying two loaded handguns, a loaded shotgun and an 8½-inch Bowie knife while speeding on a three-wheel motorcycle on the Capital Beltway last September. Police said West, who lives in Brandywine, Md., was pulled over after cutting off an officer.

Quoted from AP.

I wonder if the NBA will suspend him for 50 games?

Posted by: dcinmd1 | July 15, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"Werent you the guy who was recently arguing the Magic could be interested in Hinrich because he can "see over" Rondo whereas Jameer cant? "

Nope.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I believe I said something to the effect that Nelson--who is listed at 6' but is widely acknowledged to be 5' 9" at best--struggled to run an offense because he was undersized and couldn't see over the defense and that Hinrich wouldn't have that problem. But once you get well past what is generally standard height for a PG, then the law of diminishing returns kicks in. In other words: if a 6' 7" PG is good, wouldn't a 7' 1" PG be even better?! (Don Nelson probably read that sentence and had an orgasm.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Ok, well this other kalo_rama guy seemed to think Hinrich's height offered an advantage the Magic may be interested in.

------


What were also problems were Nelson's inability to defend Rondo and his trouble getting the team into its offense, in part because his small size made it difficult for him to see over the Celtics' aggressive defense.

As I said, Hinrich would not be a solution to all of their problems at PG, but he would address some of the ones that were fairly apparent.


Posted by: kalo_rama | June 26, 2010 6:42 PM

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

"Not every player on any team is both a good defender and a good offensive player. Yes, Livingston cant guard quick players- but the flipside is he's virtually immune to on-ball defense. That is a huge upside in a PG."

No, but if a player is decidedly underwhelming at one, it's usually good if he's above average at the other, in order to make up at one end what he surrenders at the other. For example: Ben Wallace is a terrible offensive player (actually, he's a pretty good passer but a terrible shooter/scorer), but in his prime he was so good defensively that having him on the floor made him a big asset despite his offensive shortcomings. Conversely, Arenas is a bad defender but, pre-injury, he was such an explosive offensive player that on most nights he gave much better than he got.

Livingston, by contrast, is average offensively and terrible defensively, so the plus/minus on the two sides of the ball don't work out so easily in his favor.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I believe I said something to the effect that Nelson--who is listed at 6' but is widely acknowledged to be 5' 9" at best--struggled to run an offense because he was undersized and couldn't see over the defense and that Hinrich wouldn't have that problem. But once you get well past what is generally standard height for a PG, then the law of diminishing returns kicks in. In other words: if a 6' 7" PG is good, wouldn't a 7' 1" PG be even better?! (Don Nelson probably read that sentence and had an orgasm.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:11 PM

ok, fair enough.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"Ok, well this other kalo_rama guy seemed to think Hinrich's height offered an advantage the Magic may be interested in."

Day late and a dollar short.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Report: Larry Ellison Out, Peter Guber in as New Warriors Owner

Instead, Peter Guber (right), CEO of Mandalay Entertainment, has bought the franchise with Joe Lacob, a minority owner of the Boston Celtics. The group paid $450 million, topping the previous record of $401 million spent to buy the Phoenix Suns in 2004.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 15, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcinmd1:
Delonte West gets a slap on the wrist with the following sentance while Gilbert had the book and the kitchen sink throw at him. Sure Gilbert had a prior offense.

The biggest difference is that Gil was in DC and Delonte in MD (different laws), although I'm sure the prior was also important. (And there are lots of people who would argue that Gil also got a slap on the wrist since he could have received a much harsher sentence.)

Posted by: nmik | July 15, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Livingston's height can and is being oversold. It's not just about what he gets, but what he gives up. As a starter he might get you 15 or 16 and 6 or 7. But he'll give up more than that against most of the good starting PGs because of his lack of strength and lateral quickness on the defensive end.

Posted by: kalo_rama

First, I wasn't selling his height on the defensive end, I was selling it on the offensive end where he uses it to his advantage to get high percentage shots.

If you are arguing that he gives up numbers to good PGs....most people do.....because they're good.

If you look at the matchups over that 12 game stretch, he held his own. Yes, I know it's a short stretch. But he did play a lot of the good PGs in that stretch -- Rose, Rondo, Paul, Deron, Devin Harris, Curry, Nelson. It's a little tough to analyze with 100% effectiveness because who knows what the matchups were throughout the game, but generally assuming PG to PG matchups, he was only badly outplayed by Rose, Deron, and maybe Crawford if they were matched up (who went off for 28, but only 1 ast.). He played Rondo, Harris and Curry (and the rest) to a draw. And he outplayed Paul.

And that was coming off a half of a season's play in basically 3 years.

Not saying he's a top tier PG. Just a solid, starting caliber PG. I'm curious to see what he's able to do this year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Curious, why do you keep saying Livingston is a bad defender...From seeing him the end of last year, and his reputation pre-injury, he was pretty decent on defense...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Since LeBron's no longer in Cleveland, West could quite possibly wind up with a suspension. Commish could look real tough and he's only ruining another year of Jamison's career. The guy's used to it by now...

One irony is the Comish didn't wait for the courts in Arenas's case. I've got to really think that Gil's trying to clown his way out of the situation really killed him. That comment about the Commisioner being "real mean" had to be the nail in the coffin.

Gil thought he could get by with his clowning, but it sunk his ship that time because the national media was all over it...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 15, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcinmd1:
Delonte West gets a slap on the wrist with the following sentance while Gilbert had the book and the kitchen sink throw at him. Sure Gilbert had a prior offense.

The biggest difference is that Gil was in DC and Delonte in MD (different laws), although I'm sure the prior was also important. (And there are lots of people who would argue that Gil also got a slap on the wrist since he could have received a much harsher sentence.)


Posted by: nmik | July 15, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

And everyone knows that Virginia residents (esp from Fairfax County) get much harsher treatment from DC judges b/c we have so much and they have ...well nothing really

Posted by: Blurred | July 15, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

One irony is the Comish didn't wait for the courts in Arenas's case. I've got to really think that Gil's trying to clown his way out of the situation really killed him. That comment about the Commisioner being "real mean" had to be the nail in the coffin.

Gil thought he could get by with his clowning, but it sunk his ship that time because the national media was all over it...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv

The commish didn't do anything, and actually advised (prohibited?) the Wiz from doing anything until the infamous finger-guns to the team during warm-ups. Which I believe Stern said was a clear sign that Arenas wasn't "getting it".

West, meanwhile, kept a seriously low profile, as did Critter. I'm not sure I'm ok with the West ruling. It seems a little light, because I think it's pretty much illegal all over DelMarVa (and in most states) to travel with your guns loaded. But maybe that sentence is what is generally done in those cases.

Is his electronic monitoring house arrest? Or is it more akin to the Lindsey Lohan alcohol monitor? Anyone know?

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Wizards have had a number of players in the past who has had great potential. Although I was excited about Shaun Livingston, he didn't offer the type of proven good health and grittiness (especially at the defensive end) like Kirk Heinrich did. The Wiz all along have contended that they wanted to get tougher. And Heinrich is the type of player at both ends that gives you that grit that the Wiz need. I'm tired of us having players with great potential but can't dig deep when it really matters.
Is Heinrich better than Livingston, well to answer that, you have to look at data. Kirk Heinrich has taken his teams to 4 playoffs in his 7 seasons. Shaun Livingston has been injured for his almost entire career in the NBA and has proven he can play OK on a bad team. Common folks, I thought we were all basketball intillects.

Besides, Livingston has all along stated that he was going to make the best basketball decision for him. I think getting a guaranteed $7 mil for two years from a playoff team where he has the opportunity to start at the 1 is much better than what the Wiz could've offered him. Conversation Over.

Posted by: justman1 | July 15, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Is his electronic monitoring house arrest? Or is it more akin to the Lindsey Lohan alcohol monitor? Anyone know?

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse


unsupervised probation ususally means there's no substance restictions or testing, and infrequent visits to the PO.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"First, I wasn't selling his height on the defensive end, I was selling it on the offensive end where he uses it to his advantage to get high percentage shots."

"Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:26 PM"

And I was pointing out that there are two sides to the floor and both need to be taken into account, at least to some extent, to judge a player. (And, as I pointed out in my other posts, his height is also being oversold on the offensive end.)

As for the rest . . . you didn't accept the variable-free, flat stats argument at face value when divi3 used it to claim Hinrich wasn't better than Young, so why would you think they'd work in trying to prove Livingston is . . . whatever you're trying to prove he is? (Not very bad? I'm really not sure what you're going for there.)

"Curious, why do you keep saying Livingston is a bad defender...From seeing him the end of last year, and his reputation pre-injury, he was pretty decent on defense...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 2:29

I keep saying he's a bad defender because I've seen him play defense. He wasn't esp. good before the knee injury. He was long and could sometimes get deflections and such, but he wasn't esp. adept at keeping his man in front on defense, even before his knee was shredded.

I don't think the guy's a bad player per se, and I think he could be an asset on a team in the right role. I just don't think he does anything so well that his loss is worth all of the hand-wringing.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 15, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Is his electronic monitoring house arrest? Or is it more akin to the Lindsey Lohan alcohol monitor? Anyone know?

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse


unsupervised probation ususally means there's no substance restictions or testing, and infrequent visits to the PO.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Yep, but I was asking about the 8 months of electronic monitoring. Turns out it's home detention with exceptions to go to practice, home games, and away games (wonder how they'll monitor him on the road?). The judge also ordered West to undergo counseling and alcohol screeening.

I wonder why he was strapped? The WaPo article said he had one gun in his waistband, one strapped to his leg, and his dad said he was "protecting himself".

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Always wondered since this is Washington, where was the Tea Party, and the NRA, and all of their moral outrage over DC's gun laws in Gil's case?

In Baltimore Luke Scott admitted bringing his pistol to work in the O's locker room.

He should probably be tried for not taking out half of the Orioles then turning a gun on himself...

"If a 6'7" point guard is good, wouldn't a 7'1" point gaurd be even better"?

Well that would all depend on if he actually had point guard skills? wouldn't it?

Magic was a pretty legit 6'9" and played point. So was John "Hot Plate" Williams before he blew out his knee. Guys like Larry Bird have played point forward and ran their teams offenses to great effect.

Don't see where there would be a some sort of diminishing return of being taller if the player truely had point skills...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 15, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

ESPN Scouting report:

Defensively, Livingston's size and quickness made him very good before the injury, but it remains to be seen what he'll be able to accomplish against quick guards this coming season.

He was pretty decent on defense before injury. I think last year, when he started, (which like everyone else said, is a small sample size)his defense was solid. He did pretty solid from what I saw...but as I said before, we can agree to disagree...

No point discussing it anymore anyways, he is Charlotte's property and won't be able to guard J-Wall

Posted by: merajc86 | July 15, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

And I was pointing out that there are two sides to the floor and both need to be taken into account, at least to some extent, to judge a player. (And, as I pointed out in my other posts, his height is also being oversold on the offensive end.)

Which is all great, except it wasn't the conversation we were having when height came up. We weren't judging the player, we were specifically talking about his ability to get his offensive numbers and how his height factors into that. We weren't even discussing your pet peeve of "seeing over the defense". We were (rather I was) just talking about the ability of a 6'7" player to shoot over someone 6'3" or smaller.

As for the rest . . . you didn't accept the variable-free, flat stats argument at face value when divi3 used it to claim Hinrich wasn't better than Young, so why would you think they'd work in trying to prove Livingston is . . . whatever you're trying to prove he is? (Not very bad? I'm really not sure what you're going for there.)

I rejected divi's argument because it was one composite stat attempting to measure "Defense" taken without any context. (I think it was opponent's PER against each or something akin to that...div?)

Your argument was, I believe, that Livingston will get his numbers but give up more than he gets. So I looked at the games in question and compared the actual numbers and noted the cases in which he did give up more (some), played even (most), and gave up less (one for sure).

Pretty hard to get more empirical and contextual than that at this point, short of going back to the videotape and charting the games. You made the argument about the stats, I compared the stats.

Pretty sure I've been clear on what I'm saying he is....not as big a loss as LIC makes him out to be and not as big of a "meh", even on D, as you seem inclined to make him.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

actually i never said NY was the equivalent defender based on that stat, i said he's the equivalent on ball defender which is what that stat purports to measure. He'll be the better on ball defender of the two this year (my prediction), but not the better defensive player overall because Hinrich never misses a rotation or an opponent leaking towards a corner.

that same stat also placed Gil as the worst defender in the league, so we know it's at least partially accurate!

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

actually i never said NY was the equivalent defender based on that stat, i said he's the equivalent on ball defender which is what that stat purports to measure. He'll be the better on ball defender of the two this year (my prediction), but not the better defensive player overall because Hinrich never misses a rotation or an opponent leaking towards a corner.

that same stat also placed Gil as the worst defender in the league, so we know it's at least partially accurate!

Posted by: divi3

I thought you started with a generic comment that there's no proof that Hinrich is a better defender than Young. I thought the on-ball stuff came later. But even in just a on-ball sense, it's still out of context because we don't know if they guarded comparable players within the sample and their sample-size and role on the team (esp. minutes) are different.

I don't particularly want to get into this argument again. Suffice to say they'll both have a chance to prove it on the floor this season, and hopefully both will be sufficiently motivated that all we'll be talking about is how good both of them are defensively.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I wonder why he was strapped? The WaPo article said he had one gun in his waistband, one strapped to his leg, and his dad said he was "protecting himself".

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

i've got a good friend who rolls in Delonte's circle, they can be seen on youtube video lookup delonte west freestyles at kfc. Anyways, they hang out a lot when he's in the area and go to a lot of places normal people go. I can understand him being worried about his safety in certain areas, given DC's warm welcome to Andray Blatche his rookie year, or Rapper Cam'Ron a few years back. Riding dolo on a T-REX strapped to the teeth doesn't sound like fearing for one's safety, more so it sounds like looking for trouble. The kid has bipolar disorder, and people with that illness aren't always on balance. his father said he was afraid for his life, well that mighta been what "Nutzo" (above the rim reference) told him

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

ts35: ""I agree that people are overselling Livingston a bit off of a short sample, but to be fair, over the last 12 or so games, when he got full starter's minutes (37m/g) he averaged 16p, 6.5a, 3.5r. I would call those better than 'modest'. More like average."

Um, he didn't hit a 3 pointer last season. Including 38 appearances and 18 starts at Washington. That's not average for NBA point guards, or even modest. It's weird.

I think Charlotte's the right place for him. A veteran club with a slow-down offense and a coach who'll get all the attention anyway -- in DC he'd have been expected to run.

"Livingston creates space by being usually at least 4" taller than anyone he's playing against."

Well, he'll still be tall.

"Third, he'll be playing with (theoretically) a better team and (assuredly) a better coach, who might be able to help him do the things he does well."

I think the idea is that Shaun is supposed to help the other players on his team, such as Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace, do their thing well.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Um, he didn't hit a 3 pointer last season. Including 38 appearances and 18 starts at Washington. That's not average for NBA point guards, or even modest. It's weird.

And? He attempted 6. It's not a shot he can hit right now, so he doesn't take it. Is this somehow a bad thing? They used to call it good shot-selection. Apparently in the new NBA it's dereliction of duty?

I think the idea is that Shaun is supposed to help the other players on his team, such as Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace, do their thing well.

Ahh, so all Jerry Sloan is doing in Utah is enabling Deron Williams' (and Stockton before him) obvious inadequacies by running pick and roll?

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

The kid has bipolar disorder, and people with that illness aren't always on balance. his father said he was afraid for his life, well that mighta been what "Nutzo" (above the rim reference) told him

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 3:50 PM

That was all the more reason the league's reaction to the incident seemed ridiculous. Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

"And? He attempted 6. It's not a shot he can hit right now, so he doesn't take it. Is this somehow a bad thing? They used to call it good shot-selection. Apparently in the new NBA it's dereliction of duty?"

It's about as far from the definition of 'average' as one can get.

"Ahh, so all Jerry Sloan is doing in Utah is enabling Deron Williams' (and Stockton before him) obvious inadequacies by running pick and roll?"

A strange comparison -- a player who eschews the outside shot with two of the better shooting PGs of their respective eras.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

Posted by: divi3

I sort of agree. It is not unusual for leagues to wait until the legal proceedings play out before assessing suspensions and other penalties, but this situation would seem a little more exigent than that. Maybe they were doing a lot of monitoring behind the scenes (for whatever that's worth).

Now that the plea is in, I'm curious to see if Stern does suspend him. Gil's situation is a little different because he brought guns into an NBA arena, but still you'd think West would get something.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

We'd be better off comparing Livingston with PGs who can't shoot well from outside, like Rajon Rondo, Tyreke Evans, and Derrick Rose. Rondo's the worst of that group, except for Shaun, of course. I guess the question is whether Livingston will blossom in Charlotte the way those three have been able to in their respective settings. All depends on his ability to drive the lane, I would think.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

"Rondo's the worst of that group, except for Shaun, of course."

I would say Shaun might be the best 3pt shooter of that group in that he doesnt take 3s since he cant hit them...if that makes sense.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

PG is the only position for the Wiz where there is a backlog. Livingston isn't dumb, he can recognize a situation where he'll probably get more PT.

Hinrich being on this team has as much to do with providing a veteran leadership presence in the lockerroom than anything else. The Wiz FO were not ready to go into the season with Gilbert Arenas and Andray Blatche being the veteran leaders of this team.

..if they did, God help us...

Hinrich is there to mentor John Wall and to show everyone else what it means to be a grown-up and a pro basketball player.

Posted by: p1funk | July 15, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

It's about as far from the definition of 'average' as one can get.
Posted by: Samson151

Considering (again) my comments were directed at Kal's characterization of his *production* as 'modest', still struggling to see the relevance.

If your point is he doesn't shoot 3s....congrats. If your point (and I use the word loosely) is that his lack of 3's somehow reflects on his ability to play the point, still waiting for the (any) connection.

A strange comparison -- a player who eschews the outside shot with two of the better shooting PGs of their respective eras.

The subject of picks came up in reference to his ability to penetrate or not. Unless there's a rise in PGs shooting a 'penetrating 3pt'er' that I've missed, um, whatchutalkinboutwillis?

If you're just having a conversation with yourself, give me a head's up and I'll stop replying.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

That was all the more reason the league's reaction to the incident seemed ridiculous. Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

it's not as ridiculous as you may think, if you remove the Gil scenario from your reasoning. If West is "sick" neglected to take the proper medication to manage his "illnes" prior to the incident, then the issue is making sure he takes his meds. ususally folks with BpD are pretty normal when they're on their stuff, that's why they go HAM when they're off it. Anyone who has experience with people with BpD will tell you that the "sick" person can become "someone else" when they're off their med.

I think there's also laws against firing or suspending people with illnesses, if they seek treatment. Might be covered in the Am. With Dis. Act.

Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

BTW now what kinda Mickey Mouse organization would actually let their players have a gun in the locker room?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

That was all the more reason the league's reaction to the incident seemed ridiculous. Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

it's not as ridiculous as you may think, if you remove the Gil scenario from your reasoning. If West is "sick" neglected to take the proper medication to manage his "illnes" prior to the incident, then the issue is making sure he takes his meds. ususally folks with BpD are pretty normal when they're on their stuff, that's why they go HAM when they're off it. Anyone who has experience with people with BpD will tell you that the "sick" person can become "someone else" when they're off their med.

I think there's also laws against firing or suspending people with illnesses, if they seek treatment. Might be covered in the Am. With Dis. Act.

Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

BTW now what kinda Mickey Mouse organization would actually let their players have a gun in the locker room?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

That was all the more reason the league's reaction to the incident seemed ridiculous. Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

it's not as ridiculous as you may think, if you remove the Gil scenario from your reasoning. If West is "sick" neglected to take the proper medication to manage his "illnes" prior to the incident, then the issue is making sure he takes his meds. ususally folks with BpD are pretty normal when they're on their stuff, that's why they go HAM when they're off it. Anyone who has experience with people with BpD will tell you that the "sick" person can become "someone else" when they're off their med.

I think there's also laws against firing or suspending people with illnesses, if they seek treatment. Might be covered in the Am. With Dis. Act.

Remember this season a few times he weirded out on court and once even ran off to the locker room after arguing with a ref? Anybody know for sure he didnt have a shotgun in his locker?? If he'd gone Columbine at a game....would anyone have been surprised? I doubt it, which makes Stern's handling of the situation piss poor imo

BTW now what kinda Mickey Mouse organization would actually let their players have a gun in the locker room?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

I think there's also laws against firing or suspending people with illnesses, if they seek treatment. Might be covered in the Am. With Dis. Act.
Posted by: lilhollywood10

But aren't there exceptions if you can make a reasonable case that the person poses a danger to himself or others? Definitely out of my depth here (more so even than usual), just trying to remember the options Virginia Tech had with the kid who eventually became the shooter. Not saying West was going to reach that level, that's just the only context that comes to mind.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

But aren't there exceptions if you can make a reasonable case that the person poses a danger to himself or others? Definitely out of my depth here (more so even than usual), just trying to remember the options Virginia Tech had with the kid who eventually became the shooter. Not saying West was going to reach that level, that's just the only context that comes to mind.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

i dig what you're saying for sure. but i think his lawyers would make a case that somehow he got off his meds and was unable to manage his mood swings,paranoia or depression associated with bipolar. They'd probably say that he went through the entire NBA season without incident, and that once he was back on his meds and in a better environment he was able to manage his illness better. But you guys are right. I had a dude at my job up here in the FedGov that was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy off. He worked here for about 6 yrs while i worked here and there were all types of rumors and even official "reports" of his potentially violent behavior. it wasn't until he sent out a letter threatening someone that he was let go and even then, he was allowed to come back and collect his belongings without a security officer.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Anyone with that condition--Bi polar -- should not have any gun let alone a Beretta 9mm handgun, a Ruger .357 magnum handgun, and a Remington 870 shotgun in a guitar case while tooling up the Beltway on a three wheeled cycle.
Talk about Armed and Dangerous.
I think the NFL would suspend him if he played football.

Posted by: VBFan | July 15, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, had something like that happen at my work too. Organizations are definitely always sensitive to issues that could end up getting them sued.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

remember, his pops said he was afraid for his life. He could pull the same, i was moving them from my house in Brandywine to my father's house in Upper Marlboro. All the armament aside, he didn't threaten anyone or brandish the weapons. He was caught for cutting a cop off. his intentions were unknown. Gil talked outta both sides of his mouth and the side of his neck on his case with a lil assist from Peter Vescey. BTW where was Scoop Vescey during the FA mania? No inside info, not a peep. Jeez it seems like he had it out for Gil, being that I haven't hear this clown's name SINCE the story broke.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

remember, his pops said he was afraid for his life. He could pull the same, i was moving them from my house in Brandywine to my father's house in Upper Marlboro. All the armament aside, he didn't threaten anyone or brandish the weapons.
Posted by: lilhollywood10

Yep, yep and he alerted the cop to the guns' presence...always a good idea, rather than him having to find it. Which might get you choked, tasered or worse. I always think it's a good idea never to 'surprise' cops.

I'm sure it's a gray-ish legal area. I would think it would be possible to argue some kind of intent based on how he was carrying them, but it might not meet any necessary threshold.

Saw one article saying they are expecting a 3 game suspension from the NBA. Obviously compared to Gil's that seems ridiculous, but I'm trying to remember other cases, like Stephen Jackson's, etc.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Anyone with that condition--Bi polar -- should not have any gun let alone a Beretta 9mm handgun, a Ruger .357 magnum handgun, and a Remington 870 shotgun in a guitar case while tooling up the Beltway on a three wheeled cycle.
Talk about Armed and Dangerous.
I think the NFL would suspend him if he played football.

Posted by: VBFan | July 15, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse
we gotta go to a whole nuther blog if we're gonna talk about gun regulation! But you're on the money with that one. My mom's next door neighbor has BpD, she's done some really messed up stuff to her own property and Ma Dukes, all because "They" were following her or listening to her. Depending on the case it can be some real scary stuff.


Sidenote-sexual promiscuity is one of the side effects (if that's the right word) of BpD, which might explain how D. West ended up in Bron's momma's bed adn wasn't trippin.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Saw one article saying they are expecting a 3 game suspension from the NBA. Obviously compared to Gil's that seems ridiculous, but I'm trying to remember other cases, like Stephen Jackson's, etc.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Now that's crazy (lil pun intended)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 15, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

7 games for Jackson, and he actually fired his gun (in cloudy circumstances where it might have been self-defense).

And speaking of tattoo's signifying a new maturity or life-change (a la Nick Young)

"Jackson, who is sporting a new tattoo, says the ink references his past while looking to his future. The image shows two praying hands in front of a church window holding a gun."

"'I pray I never have to use it again,' he explained to reporters."

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"Jackson, who is sporting a new tattoo, says the ink references his past while looking to his future. The image shows two praying hands in front of a church window holding a gun."

"'I pray I never have to use it again,' he explained to reporters."

Posted by: ts35 |

That really made me chuckle out loud.

Posted by: VBFan | July 15, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"Considering (again) my comments were directed at Kal's characterization of his *production* as 'modest', still struggling to see the relevance."

He's a pretty atypical PG.

"If your point is he doesn't shoot 3s....congrats. If your point (and I use the word loosely) is that his lack of 3's somehow reflects on his ability to play the point, still waiting for the (any) connection."

An odd argument: an apparent inability to hit an outside shot (or take one, for that matter) doesn't reflect on somebody's ability to play the point... that's just strange. If your point is that an apparent inability to hit an outside shot doesn't reflect on his ability to play the point... well, that's just strange.

"The subject of picks came up in reference to his ability to penetrate or not. Unless there's a rise in PGs shooting a 'penetrating 3pt'er' that I've missed, um, whatchutalkinboutwillis?"

This one I can probably answer, although I'm getting the feeling it won't help much. If you're the ball handler and you can't hit the outside shot, then you better be able to penetrate, even in the face of a defense designed to stop that. Rondo, Rose, and Evans do it, on the basis of superb athleticism. Question is, will Shaun?

"If you're just having a conversation with yourself, give me a head's up and I'll stop replying."

No, it's your position I don't understand. But let's stop anyway.

Posted by: ts35

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

We'd be better off comparing Livingston with PGs who can't shoot well from outside, like Rajon Rondo, Tyreke Evans, and Derrick Rose. Rondo's the worst of that group, except for Shaun, of course. I guess the question is whether Livingston will blossom in Charlotte the way those three have been able to in their respective settings. All depends on his ability to drive the lane, I would think.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse


No - the question is why are we still talking about this. Or maybe the question is will we still be talking about this in 2013 a la Mason.

I liked Livingston and he was a great find for what we needed or at least could use, last season. If he came here this season I wouldn't be upset.

But he didn't and hopefully, it won't make a lick of difference anyway to this healthy, 32 win team.

Posted by: Blurred | July 15, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

GM,

I actually disagree that Livingston is a walk-up grind it out point. Livingston isn't a push it to hoop like Wall, but he is more of a tempo guy like Rondo whom controls the flow of the game.

Larry Brown isn't necessarily looking for a walk-up style either.

If you primarily have walk-up style offense, your defense has to be your most superior asset.

Even though good defense is a must, your offense must operate at a high efficiency in order to minimize the effect of a good defense. There is a reason why the fastbreak revolutionized the game of basketball.

What Livingston is adept at is Tempo and controlling the flow and he looks to breakdown the defense on the move to the basket.

On the other hand, that also appears to be the forte of Wall but at a much quicker pace. Ironically, the control that Livingston and Rondo already have is what Wall must learn.

And yes, Wall, Hinrich, and Serephan probably sealed Livingston's fate, but the Wizards should have been more proactive with probably their best signing from last year.

When organizations put on their best face and win in the publicity department, that also contributes to an overall winning philosophy as well.

You cannot underestimate or gloss over the importance when Chris Bosh stated the Heat was synonymous with first class.

Folks might not realize the importance in a statement like that, but when it comes to signing FA's and players opting to resign with their own team, everything about your organization is under an microscope.

Why I know that it would be better if the Wizards could have kept Livingston even with Hinrich, I am more upset that there isn't any formalized statements or indications or promotions, that the Wizards have shown any appreciation for a 6'7" point whom played well for them last year.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

"We get it. You hate EG. He sucks. He should be fired. He should jump off a bridge. Point taken. Now, do you ever stop piling on and dragging up the past? What a flippin' downer you are. You and a select few other folks make this blog almost unbearable @ times.

Posted by: akmed0 | July 14, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse "

I don't create the news. I just report it.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"No - the question is why are we still talking about this. Or maybe the question is will we still be talking about this in 2013 a la Mason."

We have $15mill this season invested in Hinrich/Yi/Armstrong....whereas for probably half that we could have likely had Livingston/Gee/Singleton on the roster (i'm assuming Singleton is gone).

Personally I'm not concerned with Livingston being gone...but I'll probably follow how he and Gee play this season relative to the guys we chose to invest in.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 5:32 PM

He's 6'7"...he started at 'atypical'. But you started a separate discussion, which is fine, if you weren't quoting me talking about something different as a starting point. Kal said he put up 'modest' numbers, I said he put up 'average' numbers. 16 and 6. Does anything about his lack of 3 pt shooting affect the average-ness of those numbers themsevles? That's a different discussion than whether he's an 'average' PG.

An odd argument: an apparent inability to hit an outside shot (or take one, for that matter) doesn't reflect on somebody's ability to play the point

Let me stop you there. He's takes plenty of outside shots, just not 3's. Not the same thing.

This one I can probably answer, although I'm getting the feeling it won't help much. If you're the ball handler and you can't hit the outside shot [see previous note], then you better be able to penetrate, even in the face of a defense designed to stop that. Rondo, Rose, and Evans do it, on the basis of superb athleticism. Question is, will Shaun?

The fallacy of this discussion point, which I tried to point out before is that you're predicating this all on Shaun's ability alone as opposed to playing a team game, where guys can actually set picks for you and move around and wacky stuff. But even just assessing Shaun's individual ability to penetrate, you asserted that he might not be able to because teams have seen what he can do. That might or might not be true. Most likely it will be true against some teams/players and not true against others. Larry might actually have to call a play.

The only thing we know for sure at this point is that in a short sample, he did demonstrate the ability to get to spots on the floor where he could either score at a high percentage or create an opportunity for someone else. In short, he has already proven a reasonable degree of efficacy as a PG. Without shooting 3s. Atypical? Sure. But that's not the same as saying ineffective or unable.

And btw, why are we arguing him against Rondo, Evans, Rose, etc? He's replacing Raymond Felton. If you're concerned about comparisons, start there. As in can the team function with Livingston as well or better than it did with Felton?

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't know a loser like you run in Livingston's circle to call him 'Shaun'.

As for what is MJ doing, well lets just say his body of works > than your's 2M times over sanchez dirtbag.

Don't perpetrate man. You lack the skills. It's a given, that your type of DNA & ectodermal tissue color aren't capable of anything.

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 14, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse "

I didn't know losers like you, and others on this blog, ran with Gilby enough to call him "Gilbert" or "Gil."

You call me a loser, but you get your family's dinner out of my garbage.(/b)

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

"You cannot underestimate or gloss over the importance when Chris Bosh stated the Heat was synonymous with first class."

apparently Haslem came home last month only to find 200 or so Heat employees gathered in his front yard to wish him a Happy Birthday. Riley does it on another level compared to what we've seen around here, not that Abe wasnt a good guy to players he liked.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Wow... Mike Miller just signed with Miami for five years and $25 mil.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Wow... Mike Miller just signed with Miami for five years and $25 mil.

Posted by: Samson151

He shoots the three well, I understand they are considering moving him to PG.

Snarkiness aside, it's a long deal, probably too long, but that's what they're having to do with he and Haslem to get them enough money for them to justify signing for less per year than others are offering.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

"And btw, why are we arguing him against Rondo, Evans, Rose, etc? He's replacing Raymond Felton. If you're concerned about comparisons, start there. As in can the team function with Livingston as well or better than it did with Felton?Posted by: ts35"

LOL because Rondo, Evans and Rose are other PGs with unimpressive 3 point shooting percentages. Felton, on the other hand, improved to 38.5% this season, well over his career numbers.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree on this one.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Here I thought Dallas was associated with first class. How quickly things change.

Miller's going to be 31 in Feb... five years is a long time.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Shaun is an ok player but because of his injury he can' gaurd anyone. He is a backup at best but there are other backups that are better. Just remember MJ is the one wo wants him.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 15, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Protocall handled well with respects to the face of your organization is a good thing.

A lack of good protocall displayed by your organizations might mean that your organization is classless.

Now the Wizard organization might not be a classless organization but they should be careful in not displaying good protocall, good promotion, good marketing, for folks looking from afar might draw that conclusion.

Unless I missed something isn't the prevailing opinion even before we got John Wall, even at the end of the season, that Sean Livingston would be making his own decision about whether to resign with the Wizards and the Wizards did nothing to sway his opinion or even to comment publicly that they thought he was a player that could help them and would like to keep him?

I don't think that they did. They left everything up to Livingston. That isn't good business and it shows a lack of indifference to Mr. Livingston.

Folks that are quick to discount BulletsFan78 need to take a real bigeyed look at how this organization does it business.

So far, the only thing that's changed rounds' here is John Wall.

I would have offered Livingston a contract even if I knew he would refuse it. It would have spoken volumes for my organization and said that I was serious about having the best players on my team.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

LOL because Rondo, Evans and Rose are other PGs with unimpressive 3 point shooting percentages. Felton, on the other hand, improved to 38.5% this season, well over his career numbers.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree on this one.

Posted by: Samson151

Right but a) is anyone expecting Livingston to play as well as Evans, Rose or Rondo? Why not find a middle of the pack PG who doesn't shoot well instead of comparing Livingston to All-Stars. Beyond that, I believe I made the appropriate level of comparison anyway, more than once.

b) The better question for me is not does he play like those guys, but does he fit in to the team he is going to? He's very different than Felton. Can the team adapt to his style or he to theirs?

c) Let's not get carried away on Felton's 3%. He shoots a little over 2 per game and hits a little less than one. And the previous two years, when his stats were otherwise remarkably similar (in fact better), he hit less than .300.

d) All the while neglecting the fallacy in your assessment which I am now pointing out for the third time.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

"d) All the while neglecting the fallacy in your assessment which I am now pointing out for the third time.Posted by: ts35"

Well, take pity on me and point out what that fallacy is.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Miller is a perfect fit for Miami, no responsibility whatsoever other than to hit wide-open, uncontested 3s....which he'll do at 50% clip.

Posted by: divi3 | July 15, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Just as an aside, looks from an informal survey that the league average for 3 point shooting by PGs (regardless of minutes) is in the neighborhood of .340, with the median being Louis Williams. Shaun Livingston appears to have finished tied for a ranking of 78th with several others. Of course he only took 6 attempts, but fewer attempts often correlates with higher percentage, not lower.

When the defense collapses, it's usually considered an advantage to be able to shoot over it. Still, Evans, Rondo, and Rose seem to have excelled.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Well, Mike Lee didn't mention it here, but Les BouleS vs. Dallas is on tv right now.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

DCMan88,

Whats up with the bold type.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Well, take pity on me and point out what that fallacy is.
Posted by: Samson151

"The fallacy of this discussion point, which I tried to point out before is that you're predicating this all on Shaun's ability alone as opposed to playing a team game, where guys can actually set picks for you and move around and wacky stuff. But even just assessing Shaun's individual ability to penetrate, you asserted that he might not be able to because teams have seen what he can do. That might or might not be true. Most likely it will be true against some teams/players and not true against others. Larry might actually have to call a play."

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Larry are you a true wizards fan.

Posted by: dakel76 | July 15, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Way back up the blog some guy jumped me for us the proper tense of the word lost.

Let me just say that I minored in English with a 3.0 average.

However, when it came to the tenses for the words lost, lose, loose, loosing, loser, etc., I found this word to be one of the most confusing in the english language to determine the right spelling for the proper tense.

So for this word I spell it the way I want too and I could care less about which is proper.

I have determined that it is debatable as to what is proper and the right way to use this word in all cases.

So to the guy whom pointed out that I used this word incorrectly, you could be right, but are you an english major and I bet you that you could not, would not, and can not, pass a test on the proper way to use that word in all cases.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

"Whats up with the bold type.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse "

What's up? You don't like black and bold?

JWOW getting outshined by an Asian American from Harvard. JWOW seems to be loafing it.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

When the defense collapses, it's usually considered an advantage to be able to shoot over it. Still, Evans, Rondo, and Rose seem to have excelled.

Posted by: Samson151

They talked about this WRT Rondo in the playoffs I think. One theory was that backing off of Rondo gave him more room to manuever and also gave him easier passing lanes.

The complaints with Rondo, and a lesser extent Evans, is that in addition to being poor 3 point shooters, they are poor midrange shooters as well. Livingston obviously lacks 3 pt range, but he is a very good midrange shooter, which combined with his height -- which allows him to get a clean look from midrange even if closely guarded -- is part of what makes him effective. I believe Rose also has a decent midrange game.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

What's up? You don't like black and bold?

JWOW getting outshined by an Asian American from Harvard. JWOW seems to be loafing it.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 10:13 PM

Lin had 13 points 2 assists and 4 rebounds and had 6 fouls

Wall had 21 points 10 assists and 4 rebounds.
they had to use 3 guards to try to control him and he made Beaubois have a early seat how was he loafing it?

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 15, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

sorry Wall had 7 rebounds

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 15, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse


JWOW getting outshined by an Asian American from Harvard. JWOW seems to be loafing it.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

guess that's the best you can do since wall gave beaubois the blues tonight. the mavs essentially benched him. let me also say that i don't think the wizards are getting ready to do a lin for wall trade anytime soon.

john wall outplayed lin in every way - points, rebounds, assists and most importantly, wall's team won. if that's getting outshined, i hope it happens every game.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 15, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

sorry Wall had 7 rebounds

Posted by: anacostia85

No triple-double? Slacker.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

""The fallacy of this discussion point, which I tried to point out before is that you're predicating this all on Shaun's ability alone as opposed to playing a team game, where guys can actually set picks for you and move around and wacky stuff. But even just assessing Shaun's individual ability to penetrate, you asserted that he might not be able to because teams have seen what he can do. That might or might not be true. Most likely it will be true against some teams/players and not true against others. Larry might actually have to call a play."Posted by: ts35"

That's what you consider a fallacy. OK, no wonder you think I'm being obtuse.

Once a team gets a book on a player's weaknesses, they adjust defensively to exploit them. OK, maybe not the Wiz, but other teams. Shaun is an effective offensive player if he can get inside and shoot over a smaller player. He's not effective if he can't.

Rondo is effective because he's so quick that he can get by almost any defender. Same is true for Rose. Evans operates on power; he's as big as Shaun and a whole lot stronger.

Livingston is going to a good offense for his somewhat limited skill set. Let's hope he takes advantage of it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 15, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards need to stop dithering on Cartier Martin and sign him now. Hate to see him in a Heat uniform.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 15, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

No triple-double? Slacker.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 10:45 PM |

ha..man if he ever get's his jumper together it's all over. I like Cartier and Hudson. Yue and Randle are terrible. We should leave them in Vegas. Javale is so gifted athletically but has no basketball IQ. We need a center and then Javale can just come in give us a lift in short bursts.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 15, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards need to stop dithering on Cartier Martin and sign him now. Hate to see him in a Heat uniform.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 15, 2010 10:53 PM

Agreed if for no other reason than to not add any more fuel to the folks already crying over Gee and Livingston.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 15, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Javale is so gifted athletically but has no basketball IQ. We need a center and then Javale can just come in give us a lift in short bursts.

Posted by: anacostia85

yeah i was a little disappointed to see him go for so many pump fakes tonight. dude has to realize when he's taller and more athletic than the big he's guarding that he can wait for the guy to jump. has to be infuriating for the coaches because he usually creates an easy look for the opponent when he lands out of position. if he learns how to be patient and focus on both ends of the court he'll get more minutes.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 15, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

dakel76,

That would be a yes. Yes I am a true Wizard Fan. It started way back when they were the Baltimore Bullets with Dancing Harry. Being from NC, we had to chose our teams from afar and the Bullets was my favorite of all the teams that I liked way back then.

Yes I have liked other teams and still do, but the Baltimore Bullets became my favorite even when I rooted for others.

I have been here since 1987, so don't be misled when I come down hard on the organization.

They are my team, but I am not a blind follower and I try to call it as I see it.

I had an uncle whom could talk NBA ball about every team in the League. It was priceless to hear him say Wilt the Stilt Chamberlain, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Walt Hazzard, Keith Wilkes, Chet Walker, Bob Cousy, Oscar Robinson, Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor(Jabbar) and many many others.

That man had more NBA knowledge than many folks here put together and rolled up into zero.

Yes, I am a Washington Wizard Fan and am a proponent that they change the name back to the Bullets, and also is why I get really perturbed when people want to get rid of Gilbert for nothing and the ones that think John Wall is all we need to win a championship.

Before we even sniff a championship we gonna need several bonafide stars on this and rebuilding with John Wall and no stars ain't gonna win you nothing.

Ask Lebron James. Better yet check some history on the NBA squads that have won Rings. They are stacked squads.

And in case you didn't know, Michael Jordan and Charles Barkely just hated on Lebron for not staying in Cleveland to try to win a championship on his own.

That is a crock full of it. Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh, might just put the Miami Heat on the map as being one of the best NBA teams to win championships.

They would have to go some to surpass the Lakers and the Celtics, but they could surpass everyoneelse to include San Antonio and yes the Chicago Bulls.

Am I a Wizards Fan??? You better believe I am, but I know a thing or two about NBA ball.

Holla At A Playa When You See Him On The Street.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 15, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

"Lin had 13 points 2 assists and 4 rebounds and had 6 fouls

Wall had 21 points 10 assists and 4 rebounds.
they had to use 3 guards to try to control him and he made Beaubois have a early seat how was he loafing it?

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 15, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse "

Don't get me wrong. JWow was tearing it up early on, but seemed disinterested and coasted as the game got onto the 2nd half.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

no reason for javale to be panicked about out-jumping samhan!

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 15, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

I think JaTravel should spend the rest of the summer developing a fall away baseline jumper like Rasheed's. Can't rely on just outjumping and outdunking people. Big men need a go to shot and he's too thin and lacks a strong base to back bigger dudes down low.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 15, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

"when it came to the tenses for the words lost, lose, loose, loosing, loser, etc., I found this word to be one of the most confusing in the english language to determine the right spelling for the proper tense" LarryInClintonMD

Totally unrelated to basketball but maybe it'll help you to remember that "loose" rhymes with "goose" and "moose" and certainly isn't a verb, so there's no "loosing." ;>

Posted by: EestiLaps | July 15, 2010 11:32 PM | Report abuse

I think JaTravel should spend the rest of the summer developing a fall away baseline jumper like Rasheed's. Can't rely on just outjumping and outdunking people. Big men need a go to shot and he's too thin and lacks a strong base to back bigger dudes down low.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

He needs one go-to and one counter. Takes you a long way.

Posted by: ts35 | July 15, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

No Dr. Livingston, I presume?

Actually S-Liv's kind of a non-issue since he made it clear months ago that he wasn't coming back here.

I can't believe Miami's giving MM a 5 year deal. Do they really expect him to be playing 4 or 5 years from now?

MM really did nothing here, but then again he wasn't suited to this kind of team. Hope he gets rid of that raggedy looking bandage thingy that he wore on his shoulder, though.

Posted by: shovetheplanet | July 16, 2010 5:50 AM | Report abuse

" "loose" rhymes with "goose" and "moose" and certainly isn't a verb, so there's no "loosing." ;>Posted by: EestiLaps"

What about "you got some 'splainin' to do, Loosing."

Posted by: Samson151 | July 16, 2010 8:53 AM | Report abuse

88'er face it you stepped in it, and you did it BLACK & BOLD.

Wall is a rookie and yet to play in his first NBA game, but he's proven in 3 games that he belongs in a league above Summer League.

21 points on a night he struggled with his shot. Got to the line 15 times hit 13 of them, that's the hallmark of a top flight NBA scorer, but he still dished out double digit assists and really ran the offense. I think he had assists on 4 out of 5 of the Wiz's first baskets.

His dishes to the shooters are particularly impressive, he's hitting them in the hands and leading directly into their shots. He made Cart Mart look like an Allstar.

I'd agree that McGee isn't a real NBA center, if the Wizards had a legit center to eat starter's minutes, McGee could come off the bench as a 4-5 combo and wreak havac on second units. As it is he's going to struggle against starting NBA centers some nights.

I'd think the Wiz should keep an eye on Dampier's situation, though it wouldn't surprise me if he winds up in Miami if he gets his release.

Biggest problem for McGee as a starter will be fouls, can he keep out of foul trouble against guys that feed him alot of pump fakes? At least twice I've seen guys get 3 second calls by triple pump faking McGee in the lane. There should have been more called then that.

But regardless of all the flak he's catching on this site, I'm seeing real overall improvement in his game. It was interesting to listen to CWebb's commentary on McGee last night, I came away with the impression that CWebb was seeing it too...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 16, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

funny mcgee goes 9 for 10 and people complain he doesnt have post moves or whatever. So what? He scored 18pts on 90% shooting! It's like people think dunks and putbacks dont count. They do!

It's defense where he needs to improve. Many problems on display last night, but in his defense, several of those plays where leaped out of position only to allow the opposition to clean up were not his fault. Somebody beat their man clean and is going for a layup, he either lets them score or goes for the block. After he misses the block, he's out of position and there is an ez reb/putback for the other team. Again, many issues need to be ironed out with him...but he does seem to at least be conscious of trying to stay on his feet more.

Didnt realize the NBA TV feed wasnt blacked out....man Buck was terrible again. NO MORE CARTIER MARTIN NAME STORY!! And enough splitscreen with Chris Miller's head, just awful

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Didnt realize the NBA TV feed wasnt blacked out....man Buck was terrible again. NO MORE CARTIER MARTIN NAME STORY!! And enough splitscreen with Chris Miller's head, just awful

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2

Right on!
How many times are we gonna hear about that movie that Buck knows all the players.
Please get rid of that split screen and just SHOW THE GAME & shut up!!
Getting tired of hearing about how Wall's mom used to wait for him to get thrown out of school too.

Posted by: VBFan | July 16, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

"I think JaTravel should spend the rest of the summer developing a fall away baseline jumper like Rasheed's. "

I actually agree with this. He needs to play to the advantages his physical ability gives him (like learning to keep the ball up high after rebounds instead of bringing it down to his waist so he can be stripped by ball-hawking little guards). With his length, that shot would be unblockable. It's not as likely to end up on SportsCenter as a windmill dunk, but if he can learn to hit it, it would open up the middle for him in half court sets.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

funny mcgee goes 9 for 10 and people complain he doesnt have post moves or whatever. So what? He scored 18pts on 90% shooting! It's like people think dunks and putbacks dont count. They do!
Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 9:05 AM

Well put, I don't know what to think about that. Maybe it's a good sign. Maybe the high bar set for him and stiff standards to meet are a sign of how good people think he could be?

Yeah right!

I tell you what though, Javale is starting to look like PLASTIC MAN 2010. Of course Javale is a two dimensional player right now (dunking and shot blocking) I just want for us to coach him up or exploit what he does do well. If you can replace his position with a better player that provides more defense, etc... then great. Until then, I don't see anyone else on the roster trying to bring that element.

Posted by: millineumman | July 16, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

So the Magic matched the Bulls' offer for Redick, as expected, which means he'll likely be staying in Orlando.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 16, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

funny mcgee goes 9 for 10 and people complain he doesnt have post moves or whatever. So what? He scored 18pts on 90% shooting! It's like people think dunks and putbacks dont count. They do!
Posted by: divi3

If he were just prepping for Summer League play, I'd be on board. I know he'll get some of those same dunks in NBA play, obviously he has in the past. But it's not unreasonable to expect him to develop a basic low-post move or two (even though Haywood never really did). It helps him and it helps the team.

It's not the highest priority on his list certainly. Not going dfor every ball-fake would be #1, and working on his base-strength and positioning on D is probably #2, then rebounding, etc. But learning offense is usually more fun for guys than learning D. He should be willing to put in the time.

Maybe if we told him Iron Man has a post-up game.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I will be more patient with McGee's offense than his defense. He can be a force just by improving his defense, and continues to be active on offensive putbacks.

I think he still goes for fake too much, especially in the first 2 games. But last night, there is one sequence, he stayed down, and his presence along resulted in opponent's 3 seconds! I also see his defensive rebounding has improved from last season. I think he is learning

Posted by: sagaliba | July 16, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

But last night, there is one sequence, he stayed down, and his presence along resulted in opponent's 3 seconds!
Posted by: sagaliba

No doubt. He has definitely established a rep around the league as a guy who can block any given shot. Now he just needs to learn when to do it and how to use just the threat of it to his advantage.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse


Javale is so gifted athletically but has no basketball IQ. We need a center and then Javale can just come in give us a lift in short bursts.

Posted by: anacostia85

yeah i was a little disappointed to see him go for so many pump fakes tonight. dude has to realize when he's taller and more athletic than the big he's guarding that he can wait for the guy to jump. has to be infuriating for the coaches because he usually creates an easy look for the opponent when he lands out of position. if he learns how to be patient and focus on both ends of the court he'll get more minutes.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl


As former Georgetown Hoya coach John Thompson always says, "I'd rather have a kid I have to calm down as opposed to one I have to breathe life into!". McGee will be okay. The game just has to slow down for him. That will come in time.

That said, he better get back to hitting the boards tonight. It's not good when your stud PG is outrebounding your stud center.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 16, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

JaVale would be wise to seek out Marcus Camby this summer for workouts and film study.

Camby averages 10 boards a game for his career and has the scouting report for every center McGee will face next season.

It's pretty amazing that Camby has been able to be a borderline dominant center at 225 pounds all these years.

No offense to Gene Banks but Camby could teach JMac way more about being a top flight center in the Association.

Posted by: elfreako | July 16, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: elfreako | July 16, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I always thought Camby was overrated. He played in very few dominant defenses. He got stats, sure, but he wasn't part of many good defenses. Shoot, just ask James Singleton...seems to be all about desire (and throw in some technique)

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I always thought Camby was overrated. He played in very few dominant defenses. He got stats, sure, but he wasn't part of many good defenses.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

So you're putting Camby down because....the OTHER guys he played with were not very good? Wow, that's a bit much to ask. Do your job and do the job of 4 other people, too. Camby is not underrated. Trust me, you'd love to have a center put up the numbers Camby can when he's healthy.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 16, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I always thought Camby was overrated. He played in very few dominant defenses. He got stats, sure, but he wasn't part of many good defenses.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

So you're putting Camby down because....the OTHER guys he played with were not very good? Wow, that's a bit much to ask. Do your job and do the job of 4 other people, too. Camby is not underrated. Trust me, you'd love to have a center put up the numbers Camby can when he's healthy.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 16, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Not OVER-rated.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 16, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 16, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Well no, once he got replaced, the defense actually got better (i think it was nuggets)...even though he was DPY the overall defense was poor...once he got replaced the team D actually got better.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

As former Georgetown Hoya coach John Thompson always says, "I'd rather have a kid I have to calm down as opposed to one I have to breathe life into!". McGee will be okay. The game just has to slow down for him. That will come in time.

That said, he better get back to hitting the boards tonight. It's not good when your stud PG is outrebounding your stud center.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 16, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse
Big john says "it's easier to calm down a fool, than to breathe life into a corpse." just making sure we do Big John justice.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Big john says "it's easier to calm down a fool, than to breathe life into a corpse." just making sure we do Big John justice.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 11:14 AM

that is an absolute classic quote

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Good to hear Javale took up boxing over the summer. It gets you in great shape, and getting punched in the face will help him develop that nasty. Assuming anyone he's sparring can reach his face.

It's also called BOXING and he needs to hear that word as much as possible.

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

re: Big men coach

Dream's big man camp is FREE since 2006 and held every summer. DHoward, Emeka, Yao, Kobe have all been to it. There are articles where Dream talks about just wanting to teach this gen his moves, doesnt care about being paid. Almost like he doesnt want those skillz to disappear off the planet. Also says he's still fit enough that he goes at it with the students.

Um, sounds like a pretty awesome asset just sitting out there...

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Big john says "it's easier to calm down a fool, than to breathe life into a corpse." just making sure we do Big John justice.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

lol! You nailed it.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 16, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Maybe sam cassell can teach mcgee how to post up (since he seems to be better @ it anyways haha)

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Beaubois was disappointing last night. He was completely taken out of the game by Wall.

OTOH, that Lin guy from Dallas can play. He was the only one who can stay in front of Wall; he did a good job of keep a certain distance in front of Wall, and then put a hand in Wall's face when Wall tried to shoot jump shot. He was also capable of generating his own offense.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 16, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

at one point last night Buck said "I believe Shaun signed with Atlanta" to which Phil replied "Yeah, I saw him playing for their summer league team."

Love ya guys, but you gotta do better than that!

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Beaubois was disappointing last night. He was completely taken out of the game by Wall.

OTOH, that Lin guy from Dallas can play. He was the only one who can stay in front of Wall; he did a good job of keep a certain distance in front of Wall, and then put a hand in Wall's face when Wall tried to shoot jump shot. He was also capable of generating his own offense.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 16, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse
Lin would get torched in a real game. take into account the summer league 10 foul limit vs real basketball's 6. Lin, Jones, and Roddy Buckets woulda all been in foul trouble. Lin played well as did Jones. they did what they had to do, with Jones being their 1st rounder, and Lin being and undrafted FA, those guys are showing the team what they can do out there. Wall has a mission/purpose out there for us though and it's different. He's out there learning to be Flip Saunders' PG. He's getting other guys involved,running the offense and looking for his buckets 3rd. It's really impressive to see a player with his physical tools, dial it back at times for the sake of the team. You also see where JW just decides to take his man to the hole, and not bother with a tricky pass or lob off the P-n-R. He's averaging 9 assts per and we're 3-0. As far as I'm concerned JW has outplayed every guard lined up against him. Being able to "stay in front" of a guy usually doesn't mean you send him to the line 15 times either.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

OTOH, that Lin guy from Dallas can play. He was the only one who can stay in front of Wall; he did a good job of keep a certain distance in front of Wall, and then put a hand in Wall's face when Wall tried to shoot jump shot. He was also capable of generating his own offense.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 16, 2010 12:00 PM

Lin was scrappy but Wall got around him easily also. If Dallas lets him go he would be a nice addition. Since Rasheed Wallace is retiring The Wiz should hire him to tutor McGee. Rasheed is a very smart player and can teach Javale how to play defense and some low post moves.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 16, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Well no, once he got replaced, the defense actually got better (i think it was nuggets)...even though he was DPY the overall defense was poor...once he got replaced the team D actually got better.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 11:08 AM

If you're talking about Denver, any improvement of the the team's defense had little to do with Camby leaving and almost everything to do with Billups replacing Iverson.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Since Rasheed Wallace is retiring The Wiz should hire him to tutor McGee. Rasheed is a very smart player and can teach Javale how to play defense and some low post moves.

Posted by: anacostia85

After the season, Doc Rivers gave an interview where he said Rasheed had mentioned to him he was interested in coaching, but that he wouldn't coach anything above H.S. level because he didn't want to deal with the knuckleheads in the NBA.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"Um, sounds like a pretty awesome asset just sitting out there..."

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 11:44 AM

I'm 100% certain that idea's occurred to several GMs in the league. If Hakeem wanted to be an assistant coach somewhere, he probably would be already.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

"funny mcgee goes 9 for 10 and people complain he doesnt have post moves or whatever. So what? He scored 18pts on 90% shooting! It's like people think dunks and putbacks dont count. They do!"

McGee is going to get A LOT of those next season with Wall penetrating and dishing. You would think, though, that with what he stands to gain, both money-wise and basketball-wise, that he would put in the time and effort to develop a reliable low-post offensive move and a counter-move.


Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 16, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Big john says "it's easier to calm down a fool, than to breathe life into a corpse." just making sure we do Big John justice.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Now I just feel like putting my feet up, having a sausage sandwich and watching some hoops.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

After the season, Doc Rivers gave an interview where he said Rasheed had mentioned to him he was interested in coaching, but that he wouldn't coach anything above H.S. level because he didn't want to deal with the knuckleheads in the NBA.

Posted by: kalo_rama

LOL! Does that qualify as irony? Or just really, really funny.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"Um, sounds like a pretty awesome asset just sitting out there..."

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 11:44 AM

I'm 100% certain that idea's occurred to several GMs in the league. If Hakeem wanted to be an assistant coach somewhere, he probably would be already.

Posted by: kalo_rama

Perhaps McGee and Blatche (and Seraphin) could just attend the academy. Honestly I think Blatche would get the most out of it. He uses spins and ball-fakes similar (but obviously not at the same level) to the way The Dream did it.

Btw, how good did those Robinson / Dream matchups used to be!

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps McGee and Blatche (and Seraphin) could just attend the academy. Honestly I think Blatche would get the most out of it. He uses spins and ball-fakes similar (but obviously not at the same level) to the way The Dream did it.

Btw, how good did those Robinson / Dream matchups used to be!

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse
why pay him to work here full time, when he'll work with those guys for free. Dream clearly wants to share his wealth of hoops knowledge with anyone willing o put in the blood sweat and tears. i suppose you can't force guys to go, but you sure can suggest it............extra forcefully.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm 100% certain that idea's occurred to several GMs in the league. If Hakeem wanted to be an assistant coach somewhere, he probably would be already.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 12:30 PM

I wasn't suggesting Hakeem join the staff. I'm suggesting we send Javale down there. Or put Dream up in the 4 seasons for 2 weeks and have him workout our guys at VC.

Honestly I dont think Javale is capable of Dream's moves (who is really) and would benefit mainly defensively, but AB coulda been using that instruction since 2006. He actually threw a few show-and-tells this year that made good defenders look like fools, Dream style.

basically i am questioning why our big man coach is a 6'6" guy listed at G/F in basketball database

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Keep Rasheed as far away from McGee as possible IMO. He needs to learn from a no nonsense big guy like Camby.

Wallace was never Defensive player of the year and he never led the league in blocked shots. Plus, Camby is another conference and might feel more inclined to give JaVale more detailed instruction since he isn't an immediate rival.

Posted by: elfreako | July 16, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

The season following Camby's departure, Nuggets defense improved. However, chauncy was still in detroit then. The year after that was when Chauncy arrived in Denver

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Btw, how good did those Robinson / Dream matchups used to be!

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 1:07 PM

I'm sure most have seen it, but this is downright extraordinary. I remember watching and having to remind myself 'That's DAVID ROBINSON getting abused.' I know they call soccer the beautiful game, but what Hakeem used to was poetry in motion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Btw, how good did those Robinson / Dream matchups used to be!

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 1:07 PM

Those were the days! In '95, I recall The Admiral being named MVP with a lot of folks feeling like Olajuwon should have won it (even though they were very close statistically), thereby setting up a highly anticipated meeting between the two in the playoffs. What I remember most about the Hou-SA series that year was how it seemed that every time Robinson guessed where the Dream was going he guessed wrong. Robinson looked like our JaVale McGee as he was flying like a bird on Dream's fakes. That performance from Olajuwon is still the best playoff performance I've EVER seen a big man have against a premier opponent.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 16, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"Btw, how good did those Robinson / Dream matchups used to be!"

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 1:07 PM

Man, I still remember their matchup in the WCF the year Robinson won regular season MVP. Hakeem just flat out destroyed Robinson in the playoffs.

As for sending McGee to Hakeem's camp . . . that's not how it works. The Wizards can't send McGee anywhere in the offseason he doesn't want to go. They can make the suggestion (and I'd be surprised if they hadn't. or at least one like it), but they have no control over whether he actually goes or not. That's all on him.

"Wallace was never Defensive player of the year and he never led the league in blocked shots."

Posted by: elfreako

Neither of which alters the fact that, in his prime, he was one of the best post defenders in the NBA.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

As recently as about 3 weeks ago, 57yr old Rasheed was pretty effective on Gasul in the post. Whether we risk him even speaking to javale is another matter tho!

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

The other thing about Wallace that was pretty amazing was also his help defense. He was great in that as well...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Dream's camp is a who's who kind of thing.Like if time and space is limited. Those were some "NAME" players mentioned. Would someone have to pull a favor to get our guys in. Otherwise I agree with you guys, that is the kind of extra effort our boys need to put in.

Posted by: millineumman | July 16, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that info on Rasheed Kal. Perhaps we can still get him to come down and work with McGee and teach him how to position himself and how to not bring the ball down low as Lin almost took it from him last night as Rondo and countless other guards have.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 16, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Is Michael Lee on vacation or what. We played last night, No post. We play tonight still no post. We also play tomorrow. Boy do I wish Ivan was still here. Its not worth the time to even check this place anymore.

Posted by: wizravterp | July 16, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Where did ABs array of moves come from? Did he develop them all on his own? Was it our big man coach? BTH was here 9yrs and didnt develop a single move. Was he just a lousy offensive player? Or were the proper resources not in place? These are questions I hope Ted asks himself.

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/chris_mannix/07/16/vegas.notes/index.html?xid=si_nba

"A Yahoo! Sports report, citing a source, suggested that Arenas was bristling over Wall's becoming the face of the franchise. It's true that the Wizards have labeled Wall the "Game Changer" and engineered their marketing campaign around him. But Grunfeld dismissed the notion that Arenas, who is spending the summer in Chicago working with trainer Tim Grover, is upset about Wall's place in the organization. Wall said he talks with Arenas "one or two times a week" and that he hopes to work out with Arenas over the summer to develop the chemistry between them. And if they do, look out."

Posted by: tgif11 | July 16, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"The season following Camby's departure, Nuggets defense improved. However, chauncy was still in detroit then. The year after that was when Chauncy arrived in Denver"

Posted by: merajc86

That's not true. Camby played his last season in Denver in 07-08. Billups was traded to Denver two games into the following season, 08-09. There was no gap in between.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Yep, my bad, looked @ the dates wrong...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 16, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

basically i am questioning why our big man coach is a 6'6" guy listed at G/F in basketball database

Posted by: divi3 |

I get what you're saying, and it's always good to have a guy who can demonstrate it, but last I checked Pete Newell wasn't a dominant center in his past.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I seem to recall that Cassell was actually a pretty decent post-up player as a PG in his day.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse


That said, he better get back to hitting the boards tonight. It's not good when your stud PG is outrebounding your stud center.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 16, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

McGee is a bit frustrating to watch sometimes, but he will be fine. He will get better every game plays this season and be seasons end, other teams will be looking for him.

Just remeber who had to play behind the past two years...Haywood. Maybe he could have learned a bit about D from Haywood, but unfortunately, it looks like he learned all of haywood's bad habits

like bringing the ball low enough for guards to steal it
Not doing any work in the offseason
not bothering to learn any offensive moves besides put backs.

With Haywood gone, he won't get to watch those bad habits be rewarded every night and should be able to improve on his own.

However, I'd much rather us get a good big man coach in here
Oakley?
Popeye?
Honestly, the best guy would be Moses.

Posted by: Blurred | July 16, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

However, I'd much rather us get a good big man coach in here Oakley? Popeye? Honestly, the best guy would be Moses.

Posted by: Blurred | July 16, 2010 3:37 PM

But the obvious corollary to ts35's observation is that just because a guy was great at doing something doesn't mean he'll be good at teaching it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 16, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

***NEWSFLASH****
West is a thug. Agent 0 got a raw deal

Posted by: BruinSteve | July 16, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

***NEWSFLASH****
West is a thug. Agent 0 got a raw deal

Posted by: BruinSteve

Arenas got 30 days in a halfway house. West got 8 months of house arrest. I'm sure his house is a lot nicer than the halfway house, but West's 'confinement' is 8 times as long.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Arenas got 30 days in a halfway house. West got 8 months of house arrest. I'm sure his house is a lot nicer than the halfway house, but West's 'confinement' is 8 times as long.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

with no substance restrictions house arrest aint nuthin compared to having to live by the rules of the halfway house with a number of men serving sentences for a number of crimes. a month in the halfway house also adds an element of "danger" that won't exist in West's own home.......unless he's the one being dangerous.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

with no substance restrictions house arrest aint nuthin compared to having to live by the rules of the halfway house with a number of men serving sentences for a number of crimes. a month in the halfway house also adds an element of "danger" that won't exist in West's own home.......unless he's the one being dangerous.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse


Gil had a single room and got to go to the Gold's gym and play pickup games?

I doubt if he was ever in danger.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 16, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

unless he was playing cards and not paying his debts?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 16, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

isnt West going to be traveling around the country playing basketball? what's the point of the sentence if the guy is on the road a week at a time

Posted by: divi3 | July 16, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"JaVale would be wise to seek out Marcus Camby this summer for workouts and film study.

Camby averages 10 boards a game for his career and has the scouting report for every center McGee will face next season.

It's pretty amazing that Camby has been able to be a borderline dominant center at 225 pounds all these years.

No offense to Gene Banks but Camby could teach JMac way more about being a top flight center in the Association.

Posted by: elfreako | July 16, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse "

Why in the world would Camby give a rat's @ss about JaTravel? What needs to happen is Les BouleS management/coaching staff need to realize that they have a lot of 7 footers on the team with limited inside games. It's about teams investing in their commodities.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"88'er face it you stepped in it, and you did it BLACK & BOLD.

Posted by: flohrtv | July 16, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse "

Whatever weirdo.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

with no substance restrictions house arrest aint nuthin compared to having to live by the rules of the halfway house with a number of men serving sentences for a number of crimes. a month in the halfway house also adds an element of "danger" that won't exist in West's own home.......unless he's the one being dangerous.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Wonder if the Commish is gonna git involved with this one?????

Posted by: VBFan | July 16, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

isnt West going to be traveling around the country playing basketball? what's the point of the sentence if the guy is on the road a week at a time

Posted by: divi3

He may be restricted to his hotel room on the road. Not sure how it's going to work, but I do have similar questions.

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

For those holding out hope for Ronnie Brewer to come here....

"The Chicago Bulls agreed to a deal with unrestricted free-agent shooting guard Ronnie Brewer, according to a source familiar with the situation."

"It's a three-year deal worth $12.5 million, although the third year is not guaranteed."

Posted by: ts35 | July 16, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Well, that leaves Chicago's outside shooting in the hands of Korver, because Ronnie Brewer sure won't provide any. Still, he's a good addition to anybody's roster. I know Boozer is supposed to really alter their inside game, but I'm not sure I see the team as improving a whole lot year over year.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 16, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

"Gil had a single room and got to go to the Gold's gym and play pickup games?I doubt if he was ever in danger.Posted by: bulletsfan78"

I imagine you're right. Community corrections facilities in the District can be pretty lax. And a basketball player would get star treatment from the other residents.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 16, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

tag = bold

Posted by: gconrads | July 16, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

that is b

Posted by: gconrads | July 16, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Starring in Hangover 2, Michael Lee is passed out on a hotel rooftop. Will he surface before summer league ends?

Posted by: elfreako | July 16, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse


LarryInClintonMD!! What did you do to Michael Lee? He was only the messenger!!

Posted by: bobabuie | July 16, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Michael Lee will have a lot of stories to tell when he emerges, I'm sure. He's definitely hanging out with the Summer Wizards, which may yield five or six regular players with the new-look Wizards, and a real leader in John Wall.

Wall
McGee
Booker
N'diayi
Hudson
Martin

Seraphin

Arenas
Blatche
Yi
Heinrich
Armstrong

You've got to give Ernie credit for putting together that group for next season. We'll be competitive. Miami, Orlando, Atlanta and Cleveland can't go to sleep in the Southeast. But the Wizards are just at Step One.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 16, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Oh, yeah, and Nick Young. He's ahead of Hudson and Martin, if he plays defense.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 16, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't mind trading Nick Young and whoever to the Clippers for Blake Griffin. He's the missing piece.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 16, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

"You've got to give Ernie credit for putting together that group for next season. We'll be competitive. Miami, Orlando, Atlanta and Cleveland can't go to sleep in the Southeast. But the Wizards are just at Step One.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 16, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse "

A team can be competitive, but still end up getting blown out.

Based on the "quality" of EG's free agent signings, I don't think he's serious about winning this coming season. I wouldn't be surprised if Les BouleS return to the lottery next season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Take a look at the top 8 teams that made the playoffs in the East last season. All of them are in position to return except for Cleveland. With the teams that didn't make it, Les BouleS will probably be fighting for that 8th spot with Indiana, New York, and possibly Detroit.

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Based on the "quality" of EG's free agent signings, I don't think he's serious about winning this coming season. I wouldn't be surprised if Les BouleS return to the lottery next season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

That's my take absolutely. I think they want another bite of the apple before they fly high. Somewhere between 1-7 in 0-11

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 16, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

ERNIE Hudson, he's an over-the-hill actor isn't he? Like 'GHOST BUSTERS' over-the-hill!

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 16, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

"I wouldn't mind trading Nick Young and whoever to the Clippers for Blake Griffin. He's the missing piece.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 16, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse "

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:47 PM | Report abuse

"I wouldn't mind trading Nick Young and whoever to the Clippers for Blake Griffin. He's the missing piece.

Posted by: zinger1 | July 16, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse "

LOL! If JWow isn't part of that trade, then keep dreaming, b/c that's all it will be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

OL! If JWow isn't part of that trade, then keep dreaming, b/c that's all it will be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:54 PM |

Yeah, that's a pipedream, you're right. But it would be good to have an inside scorer like that.

You're too quick to dismiss the things that Wall and the new guys bring, DC Man. They're going to fight hard every night. I think Booker may work himself into the starting lineup. I wouldn't be surprised to see Blatche and Yi playing the "3."

Posted by: zinger1 | July 17, 2010 12:09 AM | Report abuse

"Yeah, that's a pipedream, you're right. But it would be good to have an inside scorer like that."

Yes, it would be good to have a 25 year old Shaq also, but I digress....

You're too quick to dismiss the things that Wall and the new guys bring, DC Man. They're going to fight hard every night. I think Booker may work himself into the starting lineup. I wouldn't be surprised to see Blatche and Yi playing the "3."

Posted by: zinger1 | July 17, 2010 12:09 AM | Report abuse "

I haven't dismissed anything. I do believe the team will give it their all early on, but this is a young mish mosh team. A lot of these young guys will burn out after 30 games.

When faced with adversity, such as a losing streak, they may fold like a deck of cards. Who are the young guys going to lean on? There are no vets on the team that can keep the team focused and their chins up. It'll be interesting who Flip names as captain.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Looking at the roster, Gilby is the 2nd oldest guy on the team. Funny, they have Booker listed as a 6-7 Center.

http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=was

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 12:30 AM | Report abuse

Based on the "quality" of EG's free agent signings, I don't think he's serious about winning this coming season. I wouldn't be surprised if Les BouleS return to the lottery next season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 16, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Ted told the fans that already since he plans on building the Wizards after the OKC team which had lottery picks 3 years in a rown and since Ernie traded last years that means for 2 more years of non playoff BB

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

"Ted told the fans that already since he plans on building the Wizards after the OKC team which had lottery picks 3 years in a rown and since Ernie traded last years that means for 2 more years of non playoff BB

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse "

That's probably fine with Les BouleS fans on this blog. Recall how most people here over the past several years here were more enamored with how Gilby "put DC/the team on the map" and his "starpower" and how he made game winning shots here and there despite the team wallowing in mediocrity.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 12:49 AM | Report abuse

"Ted told the fans that already since he plans on building the Wizards after the OKC team which had lottery picks 3 years in a rown and since Ernie traded last years that means for 2 more years of non playoff BB

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse "

Besides, by taking the slow and steady approach, Les BouleS takes on less risk and a better alibi if the team falters....as patience will be stressed to the fan base. If they went balls to the walls with trying to sign big name free agents, and trying to win immediately, then it could blow up in their faces again (e.g. Gilby, MeTawn, etc.).

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Based on the "quality" of EG's free agent signings, I don't think he's serious about winning this coming season. I wouldn't be surprised if Les BouleS return to the lottery next season.
Posted by: DC_MAN88

Ted told the fans that already since he plans on building the Wizards after the OKC team which had lottery picks 3 years in a rown and since Ernie traded last years that means for 2 more years of non playoff BB
Posted by: bulletsfan78

You forgot to factor in Grunfeld's drafting prowess. Add two more years. This year with John Wall, he could have taken Gani Lawal and Derrick Caracter. Instead we have Seraphin, who is a project, Booker (whom I like, but can't differentiate from Singleton) and N'Diaye who appears to be headed to the D League...
In addition, letting Alonzo Gee slip away, has the Wizards taking a hard look at Cartier Martin?

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 17, 2010 1:01 AM | Report abuse

"I wouldn't be surprised if Les BouleS return to the lottery next season.Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Surprised? We should be surprised if they don't. Once you blow a team up, you're pretty much committed to a top-to-bottom rebuild. OKC has been lucky with theirs; draft picks have worked out better than they had any right to expect. Let's hope the Wiz are as fortunate.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 4:41 AM | Report abuse

"...Booker (whom I like, but can't differentiate from Singleton)...posted by bozemoeman"

Well, for one thing, Singleton is 29 on the 20th of this month, while Booker is 22.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 4:47 AM | Report abuse

"Besides, by taking the slow and steady approach, Les BouleS takes on less risk..."

That's true. But the team can always change its mind. Boston accumulated a bunch of young players, then reversed field and traded most of them off for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, et al. Worked out very well as they won a title and most of the youngsters they traded (Al Jefferson, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green) are no longer where they sent them.

But it was a risky move at the time. The knock on Garnett and Allen was that they'd never won a ring (same dumb standard applied again and again by certain fans on this blog) and therefore must lack 'leadership' or 'the killer instinct'.

If it hadn't worked out, Danny Ainge's name would probably be up there beside Isaiah Thomas as modern NBA's worst GM.

Instead, Leonsis has laid his hand on the table and told us this is how he plans to bring the Wiz back. Expect the fans to forget that as the losses mount during the season. Then it will be back to calling for management's head.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 4:57 AM | Report abuse

" N'Diaye who appears to be headed to the D League..."

That's probably where he belongs this season. Washington selected him 56th, two spots ahead of Caracter, so if Derrick does get some time on the court for the Lakers this season, the drumbeats will start again to fire Ernie... as if they don't beat constantly anyway.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 5:12 AM | Report abuse

Last night's Summer League game might be an uncomfortable preview of what we'll be watching on off-nights this coming season: a talented but wildly inconsistent club that puts up 7 points one quarter and 30 the next.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 5:16 AM | Report abuse

I like the roster.JW and JM are going to be the starters in the two critical positions. just think about the last season team,we all where predicing a minimum 45 wins,this season we all are thinking about another lottery team.Despite the inconsistancy i would say we have the 2007 76ers team.They are going to run and gun,upset several big teams and win games to be a candidate for a play off run.This team is going to play better team and zone defense.the majority of the rotation players are average man on man defenders which is positive. I have to see how GA and JM are goiong to handle their men,The rest of them except YI are going to be fine.This team is not going to win with offense,we will rarely see more than 100 points per game but there is a high chance for the team.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 17, 2010 7:30 AM | Report abuse

Wall is fantastic. Great to see the chemistry starting early between him and Mcgee, it will spill over to the reg season.

Obviously it's just summer league and not reason for concern...but I havent seen as much from Booker as I'd hoped given we traded to picks to get him.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

"I like the roster.JW and JM are going to be the starters in the two critical positions. just think about the last season team,we all where predicing a minimum 45 wins,this season we all are thinking about another lottery team.Despite the inconsistancy i would say we have the 2007 76ers team.They are going to run and gun,upset several big teams and win games to be a candidate for a play off run."

Who has ever known Flip to be a run and gun coach? Not me.

"This team is going to play better team and zone defense.the majority of the rotation players are average man on man defenders which is positive. I have to see how GA and JM are goiong to handle their men,The rest of them except YI are going to be fine.This team is not going to win with offense,we will rarely see more than 100 points per game but there is a high chance for the team.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 17, 2010 7:30 AM | Report abuse ""

If Les BouleS don't win with offense, they sure as heck aren't going to win with defense. Still TBD is who's going to start at the 3 spot. Also, don't be surprised if Marriott starts and JaTravel comes off the bench.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

"That's true. But the team can always change its mind. Boston accumulated a bunch of young players, then reversed field and traded most of them off for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, et al. Worked out very well as they won a title and most of the youngsters they traded (Al Jefferson, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green) are no longer where they sent them.

Instead, Leonsis has laid his hand on the table and told us this is how he plans to bring the Wiz back. Expect the fans to forget that as the losses mount during the season. Then it will be back to calling for management's head.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 4:57 AM | Report abuse "

There's absolutely no way Teddy is going to pull a 180 and start trading the young guys for a high producing veteran. Given that, as I've said, and looking at the teams in the East, it's very likely that this team will return to the lottery after this season. WRT to EG, he should have been gone already. Teddy himself could have drafted JWow.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

OKC has been lucky with theirs; draft picks have worked out better than they had any right to expect.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 4:41 AM | Report abuse

Samson151

OKC had...

2007 2nd pick Durant
2007 5th pick Green
2008 4th pick Westbrook
2009 3rd pick Harden

What would you expect?

The question is are the Wizards going to be able to add 3 more lottery picks to go with Wall?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

289 thread inputs and counting...with the weekend upon us...what is the all time record?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"The question is are the Wizards going to be able to add 3 more lottery picks to go with Wall?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse "

Yes, they be Hinrich, Marriot Armstrong, and Yi. All ex lottery players. Don't they count? LOL!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"The question is are the Wizards going to be able to add 3 more lottery picks to go with Wall?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse "

Yes, they be Hinrich, Marriot Armstrong, and Yi. All ex lottery players. Don't they count? LOL!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

"2007 2nd pick Durant
2007 5th pick Green
2008 4th pick Westbrook
2009 3rd pick Harden
What would you expect?"

People figured Durant would be a star, but how many thought he'd be the best young player in the NBA by the end of his second season? Green was a little bit of a reach at the time; an excellent all-round forward who was slightly undersized to match up against the league's 4's. If you recall,Westbrook was gamble; a guy who only started for UCLA one season because Collison was hurt, and with a suspect shot. Harden was dogged by a weak performance in the NCAA tournament.

That was some seriously good drafting by Presti. Not perfect -- he missed on Tyreke Evans, but then again, they had a point guard, and I hesitate to point out that he did not, I repeat did not, draft DeJuan Blair -- but let the Wiz have the same good fortune.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Given Sam Presti's win streak, it'll be interesting to see how Cole Aldrich works out. OKC traded up specifically for a shot at Aldrich, who's been downgraded a lot on this blog, for no apparent good reason except he's not an offensive force. But OKC has finally spent its top choice on a center.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Hey, John Wall hit his first 3 of the Summer League! I was worried he was going to go the way of Shaun Livingston.

Looked to me like the defense had finally figured out an approach to Wall: take advantage of those liberal Summer League foul totals and hack him as he goes by. Last two games he's been to the line 13 and 15 times. It's not working too well; he's almost 88% from the line.

On the other hand, he's getting schooled a bit on defense himself. Too many steals, not enough staying in front of his man.

Well, it's practice, after all. Exhibition season. The time for players like Derrick Caracter to look like world-beaters. And Javale McGee, of course.

I think the Wiz should buy a front row seat for Mrs. McGee at every game. She looks like she could whup her boy if need be.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

289 thread inputs and counting...with the weekend upon us...what is the all time record?

Posted by: DC_MAN88

Mr. Lee has a long way to go to match I van's count. I think we got near 1000 last summer.

Maybe Mr. Lee found a baby, got punched by Tyson, pulled his own tooth or let a naked man jump on his face.
Strange things happen in LV.

Posted by: VBFan | July 17, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Here's a Summer stat for ya: Javale McGee is averaging 29 minutes over 4 games, 0.0 assists, 3.0 turnovers.

I guess we call that a 'finisher', huh?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

"Given Sam Presti's win streak, it'll be interesting to see how Cole Aldrich works out. OKC traded up specifically for a shot at Aldrich, who's been downgraded a lot on this blog, for no apparent good reason except he's not an offensive force. But OKC has finally spent its top choice on a center."

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 10:38 AM

The Thunder don't necessarily need an offensive C. They need size and muscle inside defensively and on the boards (as the Lakers series showed). If Aldrich can do a passable impression of Joel Przybilla, then he'll be a good pickup for OKC.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I think all this summer league hype may actually end up hurting McGee's development. He's getting lots of attention and adulation for doing exactly the kind of stuff (length of the court dribbles, reverse driving layups in traffic, leaking out on defense for run out windmill dunks) that he needs to cut out of his game. That stuff looks great against sub D-League players in a glorified street ball game, but he lacks the skill and, frankly, basketball-smarts. to successfully execute those moves against actual NBA caliber players and defenses. He's obsessed with the spectacular, almost to the exclusion of basic, fundamental basketball. That's going to cost him and the team if he keeps it up during the regular season.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I think all this summer league hype may actually end up hurting McGee's development. He's getting lots of attention and adulation for doing exactly the kind of stuff (length of the court dribbles, reverse driving layups in traffic, leaking out on defense for run out windmill dunks) that he needs to cut out of his game. That stuff looks great against sub D-League players in a glorified street ball game, but he lacks the skill and, frankly, basketball-smarts. to successfully execute those moves against actual NBA caliber players and defenses. He's obsessed with the spectacular, almost to the exclusion of basic, fundamental basketball. That's going to cost him and the team if he keeps it up during the regular season.

Posted by: kalo_rama

I was going to try to post something like this but you said it much better than I could have. He's still playing "highlight reel" ball that will be detrimental to both the team's and his own game in the long run.

Posted by: nmik | July 17, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Then they shouldnt have sent him to summer league. There is no fundamental ball being played, nobody is getting set in offense and looking for entry passes to their C so as to work on a post up game. That play last night where he dribbled the length of the floor and finished is not what we want in his head, but in these loosely run games that are barely coached it's unrealistic to expect him (or any player) not to make the plays they are capable of making just because the reg season would be different.

imho, the best thing I am seeing from javale is he's continually running the length of the court without getting gassed out. That alone marks a significant improvement over last year if it holds up.


the more i see of mcgee the more i think it may be a mistake to try and force him into a traditional mold. He really is a freak, kid is a gazelle. I'll be happy if he can just get his post D down. As long as he's shooting 50fg%(or better) i'm not going to care how the ball is getting into the hoop.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I think all this summer league hype may actually end up hurting McGee's development. He's getting lots of attention and adulation for doing exactly the kind of stuff (length of the court dribbles, reverse driving layups in traffic, leaking out on defense for run out windmill dunks) that he needs to cut out of his game. That stuff looks great against sub D-League players in a glorified street ball game, but he lacks the skill and, frankly, basketball-smarts. to successfully execute those moves against actual NBA caliber players and defenses. He's obsessed with the spectacular, almost to the exclusion of basic, fundamental basketball. That's going to cost him and the team if he keeps it up during the regular season.

Posted by: kalo_rama

I was going to try to post something like this but you said it much better than I could have. He's still playing "highlight reel" ball that will be detrimental to both the team's and his own game in the long run.

Posted by: nmik


Even his mom disapproved of the length of court dribble as it was the one highlight reel play that she didn't smile about. He should've given the ball to Wall and run to court for an easy bucket. There's a fine line between confidence and obstinacy.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 17, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Then they shouldnt have sent him to summer league. There is no fundamental ball being played, nobody is getting set in offense and looking for entry passes to their C so as to work on a post up game. That play last night where he dribbled the length of the floor and finished is not what we want in his head, but in these loosely run games that are barely coached it's unrealistic to expect him (or any player) not to make the plays they are capable of making just because the reg season would be different.

imho, the best thing I am seeing from javale is he's continually running the length of the court without getting gassed out. That alone marks a significant improvement over last year if it holds up.


the more i see of mcgee the more i think it may be a mistake to try and force him into a traditional mold. He really is a freak, kid is a gazelle. I'll be happy if he can just get his post D down. As long as he's shooting 50fg%(or better) i'm not going to care how the ball is getting into the hoop.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

You guys being Kalorama and divi3 clearly have an unobjective and irrational bias against McGee, Young and to a lesser degree Blatche. How anyone How any objective sane fan can gleam this degree of nrgativity off of last night;s performance is unbelievable. Irrespective of all of the intellectual basketball jargon at the end of the day, the NBA is about athletes palying basketball. The young fella had 39 points, 10 rebounds and 2 blocked shots and his team won. Moreover, he did it on 70% shooting. Admittedly there are shortcomings in the kids game (as there is in almost every player except Kobe), but last night I saw facew up jumpshots, a jump hook and a sky hook which I have not seen from Javale heretofore.

The reality is that he will get these kind of opportunities in the regular season because he will have better players who will command help.

I truly believe this team (with a veteran big and a 3) could easily make the playoffs this year. And is Arenas is healthier nad better tham last year this is a team that is going to scare some teams becuase Arenas (if he is right) has the unique intangible of being able to score late in the game from anywher on the court. Very few players in ther league have that.

Forget the lottery for next year, lets put together the best team we can and compete with the beast (Miami. It's going to take a long time for Miami to get old.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 17, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse


Kalorama and divi3 clearly have an unobjective and irrational bias against McGee, Young and to a lesser degree Blatche. How any objective, sane fan can gleam this degree of negativity off of last nights performance is unbelievable.

The young fella had 29 points, 10 rebounds and 2 blocked shots and his team won. Moreover, he did it on 70% shooting.

Irrespective of all of the pseudo-intellectual basketball jargon, at the end of the day the NBA is about the best athletes playing basketball. Admittedly there are shortcomings in the kids game (as there is in almost every player except Kobe), but last night I saw MCGee shoot face up jumpshots, a jump hook and a sky hook, which I have not seen from Javale heretofore.

The reality is that he will get even more of these kind of opportunities in the regular season because he will have better players who will command help.

I truly believe this team (with a veteran big and a 3) could easily make the playoffs this year. And if Arenas is healthier and better tham last year this is a team that is going to scare some teams becuase Arenas (if he is right) has the unique intangible of being able to score late in the game from anywhere on the court. Very few players in ther league have that.

Forget the lottery for next year, lets put together the best team we can and compete with the beast (Miami). We may as well do it now becuase it's going to take a long time for Miami to get old.

Posted by: NewManagement | July 17, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

"Forget the lottery for next year, lets put together the best team we can and compete with the beast (Miami). We may as well do it now becuase it's going to take a long time for Miami to get old.
Posted by: NewManagement"

Actually, you sound more like the Old Management.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"Kalorama and divi3 clearly have an unobjective and irrational bias against McGee, Young and to a lesser degree Blatche."

You should probably read more carefully, I generally laud Mcgee and everybody here knows I think AB is one of the most talented players in the league and a bonafide building block for the team.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

i'm also the only person here that has said they'd rather have Young at 2guard than Hinrich.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

"I think all this summer league hype may actually end up hurting McGee's development. He's getting lots of attention and adulation for doing exactly the kind of stuff (length of the court dribbles, reverse driving layups in traffic, leaking out on defense for run out windmill dunks) that he needs to cut out of his game. That stuff looks great against sub D-League players in a glorified street ball game, but he lacks the skill and, frankly, basketball-smarts. to successfully execute those moves against actual NBA caliber players and defenses. He's obsessed with the spectacular, almost to the exclusion of basic, fundamental basketball. That's going to cost him and the team if he keeps it up during the regular season.

Posted by: kalo_rama"

I think it's beneficial for JaTravel to get some on-court time with JWow and others on the summer league team who are going to stick around. Beyond that, it's just a way for him to keep his cardio up.

As I said before, JaTravel's got the rest of the summer to develop a go to move. I've heard nothing about any plans to get the big men into a big man camp. If you look at the roster, the oldest guy is 25 (Marriott), and he's no low post threat either.

Without a low post threat, plan on teams doubling and hounding the front court players. Les BouleS clearly need a veteran big man who has a low post game, as I don't think AB can be counted on for the entire season..

I might have considered this guy as my starting center, and he was affordable, but EG didn't pull the plug. I actually prefer JaTravel coming off the bench as the backup 4 or 5. JaTravel ain't a starter yet in this league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5388602

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

You say the Wizards need a low post presence...then you suggest Brad Miller.

That makes sense.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Really? It's unreasonable to expect a professional ball player to display some basic fundamental understanding of the game? It's unreasonable for a player, entering what is essentially a contract year, who has taken heat from coaches in the past over his tendency to try to do too much when the basics are enough, to take advantage of an opportunity to focus in on and hone his basic skills? It's unreasonable to expect a 7 foot center not to try and play like 6 foot guard? It;s unreasonable to expect a pro player to show at least a passing interest in learning from and eliminating his mistakes?

Well, John Wall clearly disagrees with that, because after the first two games, all he seemed concerned with were his high number of turnovers and how he had to get that under control because it wouldn't fly when the games count. If a rookie in his first pseudo-NBA action can figure out the importance of the little things, why is it unreasonable to expect a player entering his 3rd year in the pros to be able to do the same?

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 17, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"i'm also the only person here that has said they'd rather have Young at 2guard than Hinrich.Posted by: divi3"

LOL for which you no doubt took some abuse. But if Nick were to stop teasing us and approach his potential, he's an excellent candidate for that role.

How many careers do you think have been sacrificed on the altar of excessive love for the fadeaway three point shot?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

About a go-to move for McGee: I like the jump hook over his left shoulder (of course), but also a little turnaround jumper from either side of the baseline. Of course if he got out around the free throw line he could shoot a simple jump shot all day long, and nobody could touch it, but for some reason he can't seem to hit that. It took Ewing and David Robinson a few years to get that repertoire down pat, and Dwight Howard still hasn't managed it, but once you do it's pretty much all you need if you're as tall as those guys are.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"You say the Wizards need a low post presence...then you suggest Brad Miller.

That makes sense.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse "

He be a banger. There are no bangers on the team...with the closest being Marriot. Also, there are no solid vet big men.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Brad Miller is NOT a banger. Besides, he's 34. What's the point in taking minutes away from McGee for that?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Miller looked like a broken down dinosaur against the Wiz this past season, that dude is spent. $15mill is a nice retirement package for him.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

LOL for which you no doubt took some abuse. But if Nick were to stop teasing us and approach his potential, he's an excellent candidate for that role.

How many careers do you think have been sacrificed on the altar of excessive love for the fadeaway three point shot?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 17, 2010 5:56 PM

Assuming everyone is healthy, I think the addition of Hinrich precludes NY from getting much run at 2 no matter how well he plays. EG didnt bring Kirk in here to not log big minutes.

Unless Gil is traded of course.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

"Brad Miller is NOT a banger. Besides, he's 34. What's the point in taking minutes away from McGee for that?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 17, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Brad Miller is probably more physical than any big man on Les BouleS roster. Even without getting Brad Miller, Les BouleS is still sorely lacking a veteran big man.

You say taking away minutes from JaTravel? The question is how many minutes does JaTravel need before he gets in foul trouble. Based on last season, not many.

Miller looked like a broken down dinosaur against the Wiz this past season, that dude is spent. $15mill is a nice retirement package for him.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse "

He's so spent that Chicago, Miami, and Boston...all with playoff aspirations, courted him right after free agency kicked off. Broken down dinosaur be Gilby.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

"Assuming everyone is healthy, I think the addition of Hinrich precludes NY from getting much run at 2 no matter how well he plays. EG didnt bring Kirk in here to not log big minutes.

Unless Gil is traded of course.

Posted by: divi3 | July 17, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse "

It would be another sad day in EG's draft history if NY, an EG draft pick, gets beat out by Hinrich for the backup 2 guard position. Hinrich is no 2 guard, and will probably back up JWow.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Forget the lottery for next year, lets put together the best team we can and compete with the beast (Miami).

Posted by: NewManagement | July 17, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards still need a few top draft picks like...

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/enes-kanter

before they can compete for a title

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Still TBD is who's going to start at the 3 spot. Also, don't be surprised if Marriott starts and JaTravel comes off the bench.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

Short of acquiring another option, Flip has already said Thornton starts at 3. They also told Young to prep for some time at the 3. Don't think anyone they are likely to sign at this point would be an improvement over either of those two.

Posted by: ts35 | July 17, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Brad Miller is probably more physical than any big man on Les BouleS roster. Even without getting Brad Miller, Les BouleS is still sorely lacking a veteran big man.

He's so spent that Chicago, Miami, and Boston...all with playoff aspirations, courted him right after free agency kicked off. Broken down dinosaur be Gilby.
Posted by: DC_MAN88

Brad Miller is definitely not a banger at this point in his career. He's not built to handle being a primary low-post option anymore. What he is is a very experienced C who knows how to play and where to be. He's also a good passer. He makes a lot of sense for playoff teams where he can be a 4th or 5th option or a backup. Less sense for a young team not expecting to be in serious contention.

Plus, what is he going to want to sign with the Wiz? 3-4 year deal? Sure that makes sense.

For someone who spends a lot of time complaining about past Wizards moves, you seem to advocate a lot of the same kind of moves.

And imo, this season, for the most part they start McGee. But Hilton (and whoever else) likely gets a lot of minutes on those nights (which will likely be somewhat frequent) when JaVale gets in foul trouble.

Posted by: ts35 | July 17, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

"Brad Miller is definitely not a banger at this point in his career. He's not built to handle being a primary low-post option anymore. What he is is a very experienced C who knows how to play and where to be. He's also a good passer. He makes a lot of sense for playoff teams where he can be a 4th or 5th option or a backup. Less sense for a young team not expecting to be in serious contention.

Plus, what is he going to want to sign with the Wiz? 3-4 year deal? Sure that makes sense.

For someone who spends a lot of time complaining about past Wizards moves, you seem to advocate a lot of the same kind of moves.

And imo, this season, for the most part they start McGee. But Hilton (and whoever else) likely gets a lot of minutes on those nights (which will likely be somewhat frequent) when JaVale gets in foul trouble.

Posted by: ts35 | July 17, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse "

If Miller makes sense for a playoff team, then how does he not make sense for a young team? BTW, Houston, which signed Miller, didn't make it to the playoffs last season.

What kind of same moves are you talking about? When has Les BouleS ever signed a 7 ft. true center with vet experience?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 10:57 PM | Report abuse

"Short of acquiring another option, Flip has already said Thornton starts at 3. They also told Young to prep for some time at the 3. Don't think anyone they are likely to sign at this point would be an improvement over either of those two.

Posted by: ts35 | July 17, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse "

Is he even signed yet? He's not listed on the roster.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 17, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

If Miller makes sense for a playoff team, then how does he not make sense for a young team? BTW, Houston, which signed Miller, didn't make it to the playoffs last season.
Posted by: DC_MAN88

Because the expectation level for Miller is different and his role is different. On Houston, they are hoping he compliments Yao Ming, Luis Scola, and Chuck Hayes not fill in the for weaknesses of Armstrong and McGee. If Yao is healthy, they at least have the reasonable expectation of making the playoffs. Also, he signed with Houston because of his relationship with Adelman.

What kind of same moves are you talking about? When has Les BouleS ever signed a 7 ft. true center with vet experience?

Acquiring 'veteran' players with longer, fatter contracts than they should to fill in gaps in the false name of 'competitiveness' even though it doesn't get them any closer to being a contender.

Posted by: ts35 | July 17, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Is he even signed yet? He's not listed on the roster.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

Which roster you looking at? He's under contract for this year and they have a team option for next year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 12:03 AM | Report abuse

"Because the expectation level for Miller is different and his role is different. On Houston, they are hoping he compliments Yao Ming, Luis Scola, and Chuck Hayes not fill in the for weaknesses of Armstrong and McGee. If Yao is healthy, they at least have the reasonable expectation of making the playoffs. Also, he signed with Houston because of his relationship with Adelman."

Huh?

Luis Scola is a 6-9 PF, and Chuck Hayes is a 6-6, 238lb center....and, Yao is coming of foot surgery, and foot surgery for a giant like him is major. Sounds like Miller is going to carry more of the load than you think.

"Acquiring 'veteran' players with longer, fatter contracts than they should to fill in gaps in the false name of 'competitiveness' even though it doesn't get them any closer to being a contender.

Posted by: ts35 | July 17, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse ""

Again, what are you talking about? Since when has Les BouleS brought on a 7-0 true center? Do you have a crytal ball that says Les BouleS would have given him a 5 year mega contract?

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicagobulls/post/_/id/1358/noah-responds-to-millers-departure

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 12:10 AM | Report abuse

"Which roster you looking at? He's under contract for this year and they have a team option for next year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 12:03 AM | Report abuse "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=was

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 12:12 AM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=was

Posted by: DC_MAN88

from that page:

14 Al Thornton SF 26 6-8 220 Florida State $2,814,196

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Huh?

Luis Scola is a 6-9 PF, and Chuck Hayes is a 6-6, 238lb center....and, Yao is coming of foot surgery, and foot surgery for a giant like him is major. Sounds like Miller is going to carry more of the load than you think.

Point being, he's doesn't have to fill the role of being the only 'physical big man' presence. Scola is physical, Hayes is physical, and Yao, if healthy is a great C.

Since when has Les BouleS brought on a 7-0 true center? Do you have a crystal ball that says Les BouleS would have given him a 5 year mega contract?

First, I'm saying 3 years (what Houston signed him to) is too long for the Wiz to sign a 34 year old anything. Second, no crystal ball needed. Miller signed for 3 years $15M to a good team with a coach he likes. Any reason to expect the Wiz would be able to sign him for even that? Or would they have to offer more bucks or more years to get him to come?

And if they sign him, then what? They win 35 instead of 30? Yippee?

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Wall sits out, Wizards fall to Knicks...

3 letters...

ACL?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 3:31 AM | Report abuse

If houston relies on Brad Miller for anything more than whining about the calls he no longer gets, they're going nowhere.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

I agree that the Brad Miller signing has more to do with Yao's health than anything else. If you look at his five year history, he went through a 3 year period from '05 to '07 when he played only 57, 48, and 55 games before a 77 game campaign in '08. So even if he's fully recovered, he could still miss chunks of the season to other injuries. The Chuck Hayes experiment worked out better than anyone had a right to expect but nobody imagines they're a playoff club with only Hayes in the middle.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

"Point being, he's doesn't have to fill the role of being the only 'physical big man' presence. Scola is physical, Hayes is physical, and Yao, if healthy is a great C."

I'm not talking about a physical big man. I'm talking about a physical center, and Scola is not a physical center. Also, Hayes is not a center at 6-6. Again, Miller will be asked to do more than you think he will be.

"First, I'm saying 3 years (what Houston signed him to) is too long for the Wiz to sign a 34 year old anything. Second, no crystal ball needed. Miller signed for 3 years $15M to a good team with a coach he likes. Any reason to expect the Wiz would be able to sign him for even that? Or would they have to offer more bucks or more years to get him to come?

And if they sign him, then what? They win 35 instead of 30? Yippee?

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse ""

The point that you're missing is that Miller would have been brought here to be a physical presence and to mentor the young kids. As you probably didn't note from the link I posted, Noah credited him with being "a mentor and a real professional."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicagobulls/post/_/id/1358/noah-responds-to-millers-departure

In any regard, Les BouleS currently have no veteran center to lead by example and to mentor the youth, and no designated big man coach to do that job either.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Miller has an "And1" tat on his arm, I would have thought that precluded him from having a fan in DC_Mann...

fyi in 3 games against "JaTravel" last season, Miller shot 10%

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"Wall sits out, Wizards fall to Knicks...
3 letters...
ACL?
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Doesn't sound like it. But there's always a chance.

Real question is, would that make you happy?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

sign Joe Smith for peanuts if you want a mentor, guy has been in the league forever and is clearly a pro's pro in regards to conditioning and work ethic.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Also, Brad Miller is 34 and that's not the direction the team is going. This season's core group will be a lot younger than the ones that started last season (even Hinrich is only 29).

As he did with the Caps, Leonsis told us what he's up to: he's going with youth, building through the draft rather than big-salary FAs, and expecting the process to take more than one season and more than one draft class.

I'd be surprised if he changed up on that strategy now.

Unless somebody offered to take Gilbert, of course.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"sign Joe Smith for peanuts if you want a mentor...Posted by: divi3

I'm sure if Joe were 29 instead of 35, they'd consider it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

So now you wanna give a 3yr/15mil contract to a C...to be a mentor and a professional?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

So now you wanna give a 3yr/15mil contract to a C...to be a mentor and a professional?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards still need a few top draft picks like...

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/enes-kanter

before they can compete for a title

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 17, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

So...you're basing him being a top draft pick off a youtube clip? Ever see him play? And he comes with bad knees at age 17? Kevin Arenas? Or Gilbert Seraphin? Which would you prefer?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

And he's been compared to Tyler Hansborough without the intensity or motor....yeah. LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Nice to see Ndiaye get some time on the court. Good energy. He's clearly an adept shotblocker and adequate rebounder but the knock has been his hands -- he fumbles the ball. Time in the d-league is probably in order for him. Apparently he was drafted off his showing in Portsmouth.

As to why he went ahead of Derrick Caracter and Stanley Robinson, that's a mystery, but then the second half of the second round was full of players who fell unexpectedly -- from Lawal and Solomon Alabi to Willie Warren and Harangody.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"Miller has an "And1" tat on his arm, I would have thought that precluded him from having a fan in DC_Mann...

fyi in 3 games against "JaTravel" last season, Miller shot 10%

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse "

Not surprised you base your reasoning on one game.

Pay attention...again I say that Miller would have been brought on as a solid veteran and mentor to the young bigs. He would not have been brought on to become the next young Bill Walton.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

"So now you wanna give a 3yr/15mil contract to a C...to be a mentor and a professional?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse "

If not a player, then how about a big man coach. I don't see Les BouleS making that investment either.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"Not surprised you base your reasoning on one game."

Wiz played Bulls 3x last season, and Miller shot 10% against "JaTravel" overall.

Which fits in with him (at 34) having the worst shooting year of his career.

just who we needed!

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"Which fits in with him (at 34) having the worst shooting year of his career.

just who we needed!

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse "

Are you not paying attention? He would have been brought here for his veteran center experience and to mentor the youth. Again, he's not expected to be Bill Walton.

Gilby has had the worst shooting percentage for his last 3 seasons. Why don't you recommend that Teddy just cut him outright and walk away? How about a buyout?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=974

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Brad Miller is a jumpshooter with no inside game and a career 7reb/night stat. Sounds like a great mentor for our Cs

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

So...you're basing him being a top draft pick off a youtube clip? Ever see him play? And he comes with bad knees at age 17? Kevin Arenas? Or Gilbert Seraphin? Which would you prefer?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

I prefer a guy with a big body to go with all of the finesse players Ernie has drafted.

If you read my posts you will remember I wanted Ernie to draft a guy like Derrick Caracter.

Next year is a long time from now and nobody knows who will come out, get hurt or move up.

My point to NewManagement was if the Wizards make the playoffs this year they won't get a lottery pick.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"Wall sits out, Wizards fall to Knicks...
3 letters...
ACL?
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Doesn't sound like it. But there's always a chance.

Real question is, would that make you happy?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

As a Wizard fan it wouldn't make me happy.

The jab was at Mike, maybe since he is the blog master he could tell us why Wall didn't play.

I believe it was because Flip wanted to see how Hudson, Palmer and Booker would play since Wall and McGee were pretty much the Wizards "O" the rest of the games.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The jab was at Mike, maybe since he is the blog master he could tell us why Wall didn't play.
Posted by: bulletsfan78

From WaPo article:
"Wall said a recurring tendinitis issue in his knees had flared up on Friday, and after playing four games in six days coaches decided to keep both Wall and third-year center JaVale McGee on the bench."

Posted by: nmik | July 18, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Manny808, who would your starting 5 be WITHOUT "Gilby"? They'd probably suck and have all kinds of match up problems. I wonder if you would EAT CROW (I've had to eat crow, not to bad when the feet go down)if Gil comes out, first, fan apology on opening night. 2nd, light it up 35p 11 reb and 6 asst and JW praises that they, as a 1 & 2 tandem that are gonna do big things.

Posted by: zack5 | July 18, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Brad Miller GONE! Signs with Houston! Thank GOD, the last thing we needed playing a run style offense

Posted by: zack5 | July 18, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Cartier Martin is just a much improved player over his stint with the Bobcats, the Warriors and at Kansas State. In college he played the two, three, and four spots and never seemed to settle at any one of them. He's still a terrific shooter but now he often seems like the most composed player on the court. Hope the Wiz sign him. He's not as flashy as Gee but may turn out to be the better all-around player. The club can use somebody who can hit the open outside shot as well as rebound and play intelligent defense off the bench.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

One of the best sports articles I have read in a long time, it's really good. Details everything about Miami and the "3 amorons" and how they got there:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

Seriously, it's really good and Mike Miller is a complete LeBron butt kisser. I officially no longer like that dude.

I hope those guys lose so bad.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 18, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The point that you're missing is that Miller would have been brought here to be a physical presence and to mentor the young kids. As you probably didn't note from the link I posted, Noah credited him with being "a mentor and a real professional."
Posted by: DC_MAN88

I'm not missing it and I read that article before you posted it. It's never a bad idea to have a vet on the team to mentor the youngsters, I just disagree with having Brad Miller be that guy given the contract you would have to give him to get him to come here. I'm much more on board with the idea of beefing up the big man coaching. Makes more sense and is a lot cheaper than signing Miller to a 3+ year deal.

Fact is that with Hayes, Scola, likely Ming (we'll see on the foot), plus the young guys like Hill, they have a lot of options so that Miller can carry whatever load he is capable of, instead having to be a significant contributor like he would be for the Wiz.

Given how much they are currently counting on young bigs (McGee, Blatche, Seraphin, Booker, and to a lesser extent Ndiaye), they absolutely should be investing resources in as much big man development as they can. Having Hilton Armstrong currently being the 'vet' doesn't make a lot of sense, but locking up a 34 year old C on the down side of his career for 3+ years to $15M (or likely more) doesn't make a lot of sense, either.

And that's over and above even assuming that he would be willing to come here in the first place given that Ted has already said they are "rebuilding".

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I prefer a guy with a big body to go with all of the finesse players Ernie has drafted.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

But you've spent the entire time since the draft ripping the Seraphin pick...but suggest a guy that you've never seen play...and only thing they have is literature and a youtube clip.

The same thing you complain about for Seraphin.

And you wonder why people call you negative?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

But you've spent the entire time since the draft ripping the Seraphin pick...but suggest a guy that you've never seen play...and only thing they have is literature and a youtube clip.

The same thing you complain about for Seraphin.

And you wonder why people call you negative?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU,

If you've read anything about Enes Kanter

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&toinid=572&yr=2010

you would know the guy is going to Kentucky and is

http://kentucky.scout.com/2/962068.html

A little more then we know about Seraphin who has potential?

I said...

The Wizards still need a few top draft picks like...

That means someone like him not necessarily him.

The point is I think the Wizards would be better off not making the playoffs this year, but I realize that is hard for you to understand.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Bulletsfan78,

I agree with you that we are better off not making the playoffs this year. If the intention is to build through the draft then we need at least one or two more top 5 draft picks.

Unless John Wall is an incredibly dominate force this team doesn’t have any chance of reaching the playoffs this year: 1.) Gilbert can’t guard anyone; 2.) Javale can’t guard anyone; 3.) We don’t have a starting level SF on the roster.

This team might be exciting at times, but I will be utterly shocked if we win more than 27 games this year. Our range is probably 18 to 27 wins.

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 18, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse


One of the best sports articles I have read in a long time, it's really good. Details everything about Miami and the "3 amorons" and how they got there:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

Seriously, it's really good and Mike Miller is a complete LeBron butt kisser. I officially no longer like that dude.

I hope those guys lose so bad.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 18, 2010 2:05 PM

The one thing that article doesnt touch is why Wade and Bosh want to play with James if he's truly so awful to be around. Seems like players are ok with him and like what he does for them on the floor.

Mike Miller named his son after Lebron's manager and wore Lebron's shoes as a member of the Wizards...guess he knows where his bread is buttered, now gets a real chance at a ring.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

I agree with some on here that claim that limping through the season and making the playoffs to get embarrassed in the 1st round may be detrimental to the team's long term plans. Yes, this team needs a couple of years of lottery draft picks (no picked by EG) to build a foundation but what also needs to be noted is that how will the young talent on the team respond to losing for 2-3 more seasons. Losing is very contagious and many times that mentality is very hard to dissolve even if you are a superstar.
Furthermore, once the team loses for a few years (and looking at the roster, it sure does look like it is inevitable), why would some the "potential" players be willing to resign when their contracts expire then? If they do in fact reach their potential, they will have plenty of suitors willing to throw alot of money their way so resigning them after developing them isn't a certainty.
So just using the word "rebuild" like some type of magic wand doesn't necessarily equate success, especially considering EG is at the controls...

Posted by: Utilityman1 | July 18, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

If you've read anything about Enes Kanter

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&toinid=572&yr=2010

you would know the guy is going to Kentucky and is

http://kentucky.scout.com/2/962068.html

A little more then we know about Seraphin who has potential?

I said...

The Wizards still need a few top draft picks like...

That means someone like him not necessarily him.

The point is I think the Wizards would be better off not making the playoffs this year, but I realize that is hard for you to understand.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone doubts the Wizards will be better for not making the playoffs.

But you're speaking on a 17 year old's POTENTIAL. While knocking Seraphin's POTENTIAL for weeks. There is just as much literature on Seraphin. Yeah...the scouting reports sound good. But it means nothing.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone doubts the Wizards will be better for not making the playoffs.

But you're speaking on a 17 year old's POTENTIAL. While knocking Seraphin's POTENTIAL for weeks. There is just as much literature on Seraphin. Yeah...the scouting reports sound good. But it means nothing.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Noone knows much about Seraphin but how many 6'9 Centers are actually successful in the league? Because of his height, he would be better suited to play PF but his skill sets looks like they are that of a center. So again, EG invested alot to select a tweener while better deals were available (i.e OKC grabbing the 18th and 11th picks).

Posted by: Utilityman1 | July 18, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

19, 26, and 30(?) win seasons in a row is a slippery slope. Before you know it, guys think winning 4 games in a row means they've accomplished something. If the team is talented enough and the coach good enough....I'd like to see them make the postseason. Who knows, stealing a game from the #1 seed under the bright lights could be more beneficial for the club than the 7th pick in the '11 draft

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Comments like this are just classic: "So again, EG invested alot to select a tweener while better deals were available."

Might it be wise to actually watch Seraphin for (oh, I don't know) a half of a season or even a full season before we start assuming that (a) he is a tweener; or (b) better deals were available?

Posted by: psdfx | July 18, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Also, I typically agree with much of what divi3 posts. But Young over Hinrich? Hinrich plays solid fundamental basketball, the type of basketball this team has not seen in ... dare I say a decade? He plays D, can hit the open J, and will be a perfect backup combo guard for us. As for Young, he teases us, every year, and ends up not being able to beat out D-league pickups for playing time. If he turns out to be good, I'll be cheering. But I'm finished investing any more hope in NY.

Posted by: psdfx | July 18, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Noone knows much about Seraphin but how many 6'9 Centers are actually successful in the league? Because of his height, he would be better suited to play PF but his skill sets looks like they are that of a center. So again, EG invested alot to select a tweener while better deals were available (i.e OKC grabbing the 18th and 11th picks).

A inch or two doesn't matter if you're athletic enough to compensate. Better deals available? Good to see you were working the phones too.

Yeah how many 1st round picks did OKC end up with? 1. They traded the 18th pick...and they traded 2 1st rounders for Aldrich. Wonder how that would've went over if Ernie did the same thing.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Seraphin is 6'9" but probably outweighs Marc Gasul while sporting sub10% bodyfat. The only people who need to worry about him being a tweener are those who were expecting him to be a scorer. No doubt that type of athlete can check guys much taller than himself, if he's got the talent.

As a defensive oriented banger, he and Javale could be a nice 1-2 punch, which is perhaps what EG has in mind.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

"Brad Miller is a jumpshooter with no inside game and a career 7reb/night stat. Sounds like a great mentor for our Cs

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse "

Yeah, that's why Boston, Miami, and Houston wanted him and why he averages .482 FG percentage for his career along with 7.5 boards.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=556

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not missing it and I read that article before you posted it. It's never a bad idea to have a vet on the team to mentor the youngsters, I just disagree with having Brad Miller be that guy given the contract you would have to give him to get him to come here. I'm much more on board with the idea of beefing up the big man coaching. Makes more sense and is a lot cheaper than signing Miller to a 3+ year deal."

If Les BouleS management gave a crap about beefing up the big man coaching, that would have been addressed long ago.

Fact is that with Hayes, Scola, likely Ming (we'll see on the foot), plus the young guys like Hill, they have a lot of options so that Miller can carry whatever load he is capable of, instead having to be a significant contributor like he would be for the Wiz.

Significant contributor? Did Les BouleS bring in someone else to make up for not having signed Miller? No.

Given how much they are currently counting on young bigs (McGee, Blatche, Seraphin, Booker, and to a lesser extent Ndiaye), they absolutely should be investing resources in as much big man development as they can. Having Hilton Armstrong currently being the 'vet' doesn't make a lot of sense, but locking up a 34 year old C on the down side of his career for 3+ years to $15M (or likely more) doesn't make a lot of sense, either.

And that's over and above even assuming that he would be willing to come here in the first place given that Ted has already said they are "rebuilding".

Posted by: ts35 | July 18, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse "

Yeah, rebuilding with lottery picks...or more accurately, lottery busts.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 7:27 PM | Report abuse

If the Celtics wanted Miller they would have offered him a contract, instead they went with Jermaine O'Neil.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

"If the Celtics wanted Miller they would have offered him a contract, instead they went with Jermaine O'Neil.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse "

It's all part of the negotiation process that neither you nor I are privy too.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

With that said, Seraphin’s inexperience shows on the defensive end as well.

He displays only average awareness and tends to leave his feet on pump fakes, causing him to get into foul trouble on occasion. From time to time he gets caught flat-footed watching a defensive rebound fly over his head.

Don't the Wizards have a guy like this already? McGee...

Having only played basketball for five years, Seraphin is still very much playing catch-up with other prospects his age

5 years?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

48% shooting is good for a SG...a C? Not so much.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

if you watched the Nike Hoops Summit last weekend, you may include another prospect in that group. Enes Kanter, the 6-foot-10, 245-pounder from Turkey, put on quite a show. Kanter broke Dirk Nowitski's 1998 record for most points scored, with 34 points and pulled down 13 rebounds in the 101-97

Kanter displayed great footwork and great hands, two important pieces to a quality big man. Kanter also had no problem rebounding the ball against the US team, mostly due to his intensity and his ability to anticipate the ball coming off the rim.

Overall, Kanter showed that even though he wasn't as athletic as several of the frontline players for the US team, he could use his body and his mind to even the playing field. That may be Kanters most impressive asset: his basketball I.Q.

Again I'm not saying he should be the Wizards pick but I believe his game is light years ahead of Seraphin’s.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

"48% shooting is good for a SG...a C? Not so much.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse "

Blatche - career .470

Yi - career .402

Marriot (avg. 2.7 shots/game) - career .503

JaTravel - career .500 on dunks

Oberto (avg. 1 shot/game with Les BouleS) - .625

Really, the only one solid with Les BouleS has been BTH, but he was traded away to Dallas b/c EG knew that BTH would leave this hell hole.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

who cares how well miller shots the ball from 1995-2004??? His fg% has been dropping ever since...but I'm sure he'll be great this season now that he's a year older.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Blatche - career .470

Yi - career .402

Marriot (avg. 2.7 shots/game) - career .503

JaTravel - career .500 on dunks

Oberto (avg. 1 shot/game with Les BouleS) - .625

Really, the only one solid with Les BouleS has been BTH, but he was traded away to Dallas b/c EG knew that BTH would leave this hell hole.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

So your solution is to bring in a C that does more of the same. Why not just bring Jamison back then while you're at it. Another jump shooting big man.

You said they need a banger...then changed it to a mentor...then say everybody else sucks.

Like I said. You don't even buy your own BS.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Again I'm not saying he should be the Wizards pick but I believe his game is light years ahead of Seraphin’s.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 8:02 PM

No doubt about that, the problem is when a kid is 6'10" and already having to compensate for his lack of athleticism at the high school level...you'd best hope he grows a few more inches.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

"who cares how well miller shots the ball from 1995-2004??? His fg% has been dropping ever since...but I'm sure he'll be great this season now that he's a year older.

Posted by: divi3 | July 18, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse "

People like you keep yapping about his shooting percentage. Again, I'll say that his purpose is to provide veteran leadership and to mentor the youth. Anything beyond that and you're just scratching for something to whine about.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

"So your solution is to bring in a C that does more of the same. Why not just bring Jamison back then while you're at it. Another jump shooting big man.

You said they need a banger...then changed it to a mentor...then say everybody else sucks.

Like I said. You don't even buy your own BS.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse "

You must enjoy eating your own BS b/c you sure like to share on this blog.

Mentioning MeTawn makes absolutely no sense (not surprising coming from you) b/c MeTawn is not a center.

If you can dream up someone on the current roster who's a better true center than Brad Miller, then present your case. Otherwise, keeping slurping.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Again, I'll say that his purpose is to provide veteran leadership and to mentor the youth. Anything beyond that and you're just scratching for something to whine about.

Isn't that what Oberto was for? Which you've been complaining about all year?

Mentioning MeTawn makes absolutely no sense (not surprising coming from you) b/c MeTawn is not a center.

The point is....Brad Miller IS a C...that plays like Jamison...so what's the point?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

"Isn't that what Oberto was for? Which you've been complaining about all year?"

Maybe you should reference Joachim Noah's quotes on how Brad Miller has been a great mentor and professional. Then, find some quotes from players on Oberto. Good luck.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicagobulls/post/_/id/1358/noah-responds-to-millers-departure

"The point is....Brad Miller IS a C...that plays like Jamison...so what's the point?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 18, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse "

The point is that you have no point as usual, and are just trying to be argumentative.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 18, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

"Overall, Kanter showed that even though he wasn't as athletic as several of the frontline players for the US team, he could use his body and his mind to even the playing field. That may be Kanters most impressive asset: his basketball I.Q.
Again I'm not saying he should be the Wizards pick but I believe his game is light years ahead of Seraphin’s.Posted by: bulletsfan78"

The big draft websites all project Kanter as a lottery pickin 2011, going as high as third on one site. Attending a high profile school like Kentucky shouldn't hurt, either. If he's as good as advertised, he might be the first overall pick. You know how much extra attention a big man can draw at draft time.

In other words, he's a full tier ahead of Seraphin, who was slotted to go 15-20. I'm sure the Wiz would have preferred DeMarcus Cousins or Derrick Favors if they'd have been there at 17.

So I guess I don't understand the argument. If Kanter is available when Washington picks next year, I imagine they'll grab him, Kevin Seraphin or no.

But Seraphin, for all his rawness, is a very impressive athlete. He might be ever bit as physical as Kanter and a bunch stronger. If he gets a season or two to develop, he might be a special player. No way to know til we see him in action.

That's Seraphin's real problem: we haven't seen him play in anger. Until we do, what's the point of arguing?

This is the juncture where somebody reminds me that without speculation, prejudice, and meaningless argument, what's the point of a blog?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Somebody wake up this lazy bastard of a blog writer and get him to work. This is pathetic, although not surprising.

Posted by: the_shocker1 | July 18, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

That's Seraphin's real problem: we haven't seen him play in anger. Until we do, what's the point of arguing?

This is the juncture where somebody reminds me that without speculation, prejudice, and meaningless argument, what's the point of a blog?


Posted by: Samson151 | July 18, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't arguing...

The biggest problem I can see about blogging is people either (kal) take what a person writes out of context or (SDMDTSU) don't take the time to figure out why a person writes what they write?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 18, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Did Les BouleS bring in someone else to make up for not having signed Miller?

Was signing Miller on their agenda? Or just yours?

Maybe you should reference Joachim Noah's quotes on how Brad Miller has been a great mentor and professional. Then, find some quotes from players on Oberto. Good luck.

I believe players like AB said the same thing about AJ when he was traded. Should we bring him back to mentor the PFs?

Yeah, that's why Boston, Miami, and Houston wanted him and why he averages .482 FG percentage for his career along with 7.5 boards.

Boston, Miami, Chicago and Houston wanted someone to soak up back-up minutes behind their real centers.

If veteran leadership and mentoring is the agenda, should they now go after Shaq, or someone like Kurt Thomas?

And you still haven't addressed the part of why Brad Miller would choose a rebuilding team over a team with aspirations this year?

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 12:22 AM | Report abuse

"Was signing Miller on their agenda? Or just yours?"

I guess you don't see a need for a vet to help the young bigs on this team. Too bad. You clearly have no better solutions.

"I believe players like AB said the same thing about AJ when he was traded. Should we bring him back to mentor the PFs?"

And you're gullible enough to believe everything AB says, especially with his track record?

"Boston, Miami, Chicago and Houston wanted someone to soak up back-up minutes behind their real centers."

And you were privy to that knowledge since you were part of their discussions?

"If veteran leadership and mentoring is the agenda, should they now go after Shaq, or someone like Kurt Thomas?"

That's a joke. Shaq would probably command more dollars and has never been a mentor to anyone. Is Shaq going to mentor them on how to shoot free throws?

Suggesting Kurt Thomas is an even worse joke. Kurt hasn't been able to do anything for the teams (NY, Suns, or Spurs) he's signed on with, and he's only 6-9, 235lbs.

"And you still haven't addressed the part of why Brad Miller would choose a rebuilding team over a team with aspirations this year?

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 12:22 AM | Report abuse "

I did, but you were paying attention.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse

..weren't..

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

"why Brad Miller would choose a rebuilding team over a team with aspirations this year? Posted by: ts35"

That's really the issue, I think. Veteran players in their thirties are focused on the possibility of advancing in the playoffs. That's how they evaluate potential employers. A possible contender gets the nod if the $$ are even reasonably close. And we see the vets lining up at Pat Riley's door for a last chance at a ring. They'd probably play for meal money.

It's different for players along the margins like Roger Mason or Shaun Livingston. For them the decision is more about opportunity. They've wasted years of short careers already. You just want to go to a good team with a need at your position -- Mason in San Antonio, Livingston in Charlotte.

Somebody like Alonzo Gee is young enough to imagine himself leading the right NBA club to an important playoff victory. Not entirely fantasy. But there's a clock on realizing such dreams. Get stuck on a rebuilding club, and your career could be over before you know it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

with no substance restrictions house arrest aint nuthin compared to having to live by the rules of the halfway house with a number of men serving sentences for a number of crimes. a month in the halfway house also adds an element of "danger" that won't exist in West's own home.......unless he's the one being dangerous.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 16, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse


Gil had a single room and got to go to the Gold's gym and play pickup games?

I doubt if he was ever in danger.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 16, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

prolly not, but you can't deny that the potential for danger exists more so in a halfway house than in his own home. BTW working out/going to Golds is part of his job. Everyone in a halfway house is allowed to leave for work during the day.

Having a single room doesn't guarantee safety. Tell me how a single room is gonna help him during a fire (fires have been set in DC halfway houses) or a brawl?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if you all got the memo, but Dan Steinberg took over covering the second half of the NBA Summer League. Five of his recent entries covered the Wizards.
Well, one was about Charles Barkley talking about the Wizards and Arenas and the other four about Wizards at the Summer League.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/07/john_walls_underhanded_three-p.html?wprss=dcsportsbog

And if the commenters on Mike Lee's blog feel the need to chat about who the Wizards need to hire NOW!, we can refer to the list of remaining free agents.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/07/john_walls_underhanded_three-p.html?wprss=dcsportsbog

Posted by: rickgonz | July 19, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: rickgonz | July 19, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

ts35, Actually Shaq wouldn't be that bad of an idea under a midlevel contract. He's still a space filler and a pretty good defensive rebounder.

I know it sounds completely farfetched, but the big guy still wants to play a few more years, I really don't believe he's following LeBron to Miami, so he's going to be looking around for a spot to play.

When Shaq left LA he was lucky enough to pair with DWade in Miami for another title. Was it luck? Or did the big guy see a chance to team with a young star on the rise? He then tried to team up with BronBron for another run in Cleveland.

The BiG GuY has an eye for putting himself together with young talent. The pairing with a group of vets in AZ didn't work out, neither did the run in Cleveland. Maybe the BiG GuY wants to try signing on with the next big thing.

Right now after summer league the brightest new light in the league is John Wall. Stranger things have happened in the NBA, so it wouldn't shock me to see the big guy sniffing around to see what he thought of the Wizards and this roster.

Wilt finished out his career in LA as a defensive rebounding machine for the Lakers springing their running game.

H'mm, Shaq to Arenas or Wall. It's got a nice sound. Having the big guy down low would jump start the development of this team in a lot of ways.

Leonsis would probably never wine and dine the big guy like he'd need to to bring him here. But then again Leonsis was the driving force behind bringing Jordan here. Some would view a Shaq to DC move as another typical circus move. But having a big body inside just makes every thing easier for the young guys to growup together.

Shaq's gonna land some where. In some ways DC makes as much sense as any where else...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 19, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I say we sign someone like Przybilla...a defensive minded center who loves to rebound. He will be a good fit with McGee. I think the combination of the 2 will give us people who can definitely man the middle.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 19, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

"prolly not, but you can't deny that the potential for danger exists more so in a halfway house than in his own home. BTW working out/going to Golds is part of his job. Everyone in a halfway house is allowed to leave for work during the day.
Having a single room doesn't guarantee safety. Tell me how a single room is gonna help him during a fire (fires have been set in DC halfway houses) or a brawl?
Posted by: lilhollywood10"

None of those things occurred during Gil's stay in the facility, and the reason is they seldom occur no matter who's occupying the place. It's the mildest possible sanction the judge could have administered, outside of just letting him stay home and do community service at the local PAL. IMO it shows the judge regarded the suspension and lost income as more than sufficient punishment given the nature of the offense, and regarded Arenas as no danger to anyone but himself.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"Shaq's gonna land some where. In some ways DC makes as much sense as any where else...
GMPosted by: flohrtv"

Not from Shaq's perspective. He's certainly not playing for the money. If he signs anywhere, he wants it to be a serious contender with a lot of media exposure. Chicago, LA, Dallas, NY -- someplace like that.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

2010 Summer League All-Tournament team.

T-Mobile Rookie of the Month
DeMarcus Cousins (Sacramento)

Most Outstanding Player
John Wall (Washington)

All-Tournament Team
Sam Young (Memphis)
JaVale McGee (Washington)
Reggie Williams (Golden State)
DeMar DeRozan (Toronto)
JJ Hickson (Cleveland)
Ty Lawson (Denver)
Dominique Jones (Dallas)
Derrick Caracter (LA Lakers)
Larry Sanders (Milwaukee)
Gani Lawal (Phoenix)
Jermaine Taylor (Houston)
Alonzo Gee (San Antonio)

Caracter, Lawal, Gee and Quinton Ross?
Or Hinrich, Seraphin, Booker, N'Diaye and Yi?

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 19, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Plus, it'd be pretty awkward with the whole Shaq and Gilbert's wife thingie...

Posted by: merajc86 | July 19, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

None of those things occurred during Gil's stay in the facility, and the reason is they seldom occur no matter who's occupying the place. It's the mildest possible sanction the judge could have administered, outside of just letting him stay home and do community service at the local PAL

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

that's exactly what i'm saying. Gil's sentence, while light, is not as light (or safe) as staying at your own home;which happens to be part of West's sentence.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

They were saying they think Stern is going to give Delonte a 3-5 game suspension for next season.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Caracter, Lawal, Gee and Quinton Ross?
Or Hinrich, Seraphin, Booker, N'Diaye and Yi?

You realize this is summer league right?

Hinrich is better than any of them, I love what I saw from Booker. Can't wait to see Seraphin...N'Diaye looked good defensively with minutes in the last game.

Hate to tell you...but Yi is even better than all of those players...and that's not saying much.

They haven't played a game yet. Remeber Nikoloz Tskitishvili?

Check back in 6 months.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I guess you don't see a need for a vet to help the young bigs on this team. Too bad. You clearly have no better solutions.

No, actually I think it's a good idea, I just don't think Brad Miller is the guy. Not at 3yrs+ at $15M+. If we picked him as a year and half rental like Chicago did, then maybe.

And you're gullible enough to believe everything AB says, especially with his track record?

No, just pointing out that you seem to automatically accept everything every non-Wizard says at face-value. And discount anything a Wizard says because they're a Wizard.

And you were privy to that knowledge since you were part of their discussions?

Nope, I just figured if you were going to overhype Brad Miller, I should compensate the other way. Plus, Miami signed Haslem first, Boston signed O'Neal first, Houston re-signed Scola first and also said specifically that they were bringing in Miller to back up Yao, and Chicago didn't consider him so invaluable that it was worth beating Houston's offer to keep the guy who was their backup center last year. All of which says Miller wasn't their top priority.

In terms of Shaq and Kurt Thomas, I just thought we were in the mode of throwing out players who aren't going to come to the Wizards so we could complain about why EG 'failed' to sign them. Kurt Thomas at least makes a modicum of sense because he'd be cheaper and he's known as a very smart, savvy post defender. That's a guy I'd be okay with mentoring AB, McGee and the rest, even though he's past his prime for playing a lot of minutes. But again, he's not coming here. Neither would Shaq and neither would Brad Miller. Which brings us back to why would Miller choose to sign with the Wiz? Have you said that yet?

I did, but you weren't paying attention.

I scrolled up and tried to find the part where you make the case where it makes sense to Brad Miller, couldn't find it. But given that we're around 400 entries now, maybe I just missed. Please enlighten.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

From what I saw, Javale was the most dominant player at Summer League. Doesnt mean much, but is a hell of a lot better than him looking out of shape and awkward.

Allowing Lebron to dictate the acquisition of Jamison (or amare) may have been Cleveland's undoing....Hickson has looked like ALL THAT for awhile now, and a kid who could develop into something under Lebron's wing. I'd say they'd have been better off force feeding Hickson minutes headed into the playoffs, he can play at both ends

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Caracter is a light year ahead of Ndiaye, that one is going down as an EG "miss" but that late in the draft cant be too picky about it.

My wonder is if EG expected a 4yr college player who was Big East defensive player of the year, and is older than Javale, to be a guy who needs to spend serious time in the Dleague. Or if he thought NDiaye would be ready to contribute

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"No, just pointing out that you seem to automatically accept everything every non-Wizard says at face-value. And discount anything a Wizard says because they're a Wizard."

Hey, it's not like Noah was suspended and almost kicked off the team for insubordination. Oh wait, he was.

Any pro-Brad Miller post containing "he's a true Center" is pretty much DOA

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Caracter is a light year ahead of Ndiaye, that one is going down as an EG "miss" but that late in the draft cant be too picky about it.

It's summer league. It's not going down as anything. Caracter's character issues could have him out of the league at any time.

He's always had the talent though.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Any pro-Brad Miller post containing "he's a true Center" is pretty much DOA

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Exactly...or calling him a banger. LMAO

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Caracter is a light year ahead of Ndiaye, that one is going down as an EG "miss" but that late in the draft cant be too picky about it.

My wonder is if EG expected a 4yr college player who was Big East defensive player of the year, and is older than Javale, to be a guy who needs to spend serious time in the Dleague. Or if he thought NDiaye would be ready to contribute

Posted by: divi3

Offensively he's ahead of Ndiaye. In Summer League. Remains to be seen if his game translates against actual pros. Plus for a team that (at least initially) was trying to improve the team's character, toughness and maturity level, Ndiaye seems a better bet than a kid who had character issues at LSU and transferred.

Caracter may end up being a better pro player, but I would wait a bit before I tally the score. I know you're not making a big deal of this one, I'm just sayin.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Shaq in Chicago does make sense.
Knicks,I just can't see it.
New jersey,NO
Lakers, Why?
Clippers, A possibility. But they have Kaman, and I can't see Shaq playing second fiddle on the second fiddle team in town, even if it is LA.
Dallas, Just resigned Haywood and traded for Chandler. Where are the minutes for Shaq? Don't care how many years they've wanted him. That boat's sailed.

That narrows Shaq's possibilities down a lot. Boston already went with the other O'Neal. Atlanta could be a possibility, but they're tapped out from resigning Joe Johnson. Are they going to pay LT dollars for Shaq?

That rumor about Shaq and Gil's wife(I don't keep up with that kind of gossip, did Gil ever get married?). Could be another reason it would never happen.

Shaq's going to want to be seen as filling a preceived role, not just catching on for a ride. Shaq and McGee spliting time at center works, Shaq's down to about 25 min a night anyway.

Like I said it's probably never going to happen, but if you think about it, it would make some sense for Shaq. Look at the buzz that Wall created in Vegas, Shaq's been there so many times before, he'd take some pressure off of Wall and enjoy the role of elder statesman to the next big thing.

It sounds like a strange idea at first. But I could think of a lot worse places to spend some of Leonsis's money...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 19, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

@SDMDTSU

Caracter, Lawal, Gee and Quinton Ross?
Or Hinrich, Seraphin, Booker, N'Diaye and Yi?

I make no excuses for not liking the Wizards draft and moves after the Wall pick.

You realize this is summer league right?

Yes. And given Booker and N'Diaye didn't distinguish themselves as low post players, while Caracter and Lawal did against the same level of competition is why I raised the question.

Hinrich is better than any of them, I love what I saw from Booker. Can't wait to see Seraphin...N'Diaye looked good defensively with minutes in the last game.

To borrow your question "You realize this is summer league right?" I thought Booker looked nice, but he cost two draft picks, that could have been Lawal and Caracter.

Hate to tell you...but Yi is even better than all of those players...and that's not saying much.

Now that remains to be seen. No one considers Yi a low post player. He a soft jump shooting forward who may or may not be able to play the 3 and is certainly not physical enough to play the 4.

They haven't played a game yet. Remeber Nikoloz Tskitishvili?

None of us has any idea how any of the rookies are going to do come regular season. Hinrich's a baller, but not a $9 million dollar baller. He's a guy Ernie wanted. Yi, what's this his third team in four years? The jury is no longer out on him. He was on a rookie contract and Avery Johnson still didn't want to waste time with him. Alonzo Gee, showed grit, hustle and production at the pro level.

Check back in 6 months.

We are all playing offseason GM. Unless Ernie's on here masquerading as a fan, it's a pretty good bet that the posters here just fans pretending to know something about professional basketball. All we have until November is speculation and trash talk.

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 19, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Shaq may end up retiring.

It IS just summer league...however as was stated, all these guys are playing the same level of competition. IMHO, Booker has got to end up the superior player to Lawal or it's more egg on Ernie's face. 5 games in summer league dont determine anything, but let's not kid ourselves, if Lawal was on our roster and playing so well we'd all be thrilled about it. And many people here wanted to draft him.

All that said, neither guy has dribbled a ball in a reg season game, so no worries yet

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 19, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

You wrote a lot. I'll just respond like this. Booker and N'Diaye weren't low post players, but Booker did things that translate better to regular season basketball than scoring in the post on summer league players. The pick he set to open up Hudson for the game winner on Charlotte as an example. Summer league or not...those things translate. Scoring in summer league does not. Yi averaged 12 and 7 last season. I'm putting my money on Caracter and Lawal not averaging that.

Alonzo Gee made a decision to leave. Did Ernie offer him a contract? Who knows. I know he probably got that playoff money from San Antonio and that guaranteed contract. I don't blame him for leaving.

He has free will you know. Can't just hit the green button like xbox and make people sign. (You hear that Larry? It applies to Livingston)

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

But it was reported Gee was staying and I think flip even said we signed him...then he was gone the next day. Correct me if i'm wrong, but his rights expired on a sunday night or something and we missed some kind of deadline? Or opportunity?

What bothers me also about that is how the issue could be his small guaranteed money....but then EG blows (my opinion) $9-$17mill on Hinrich. I'd rather have Gee because we're rebuilding and he's young and getting better.

imho, Gee can play! I dont understand how much more they needed to see of him before determining he was worth whatever money it took to have his rights this year

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

It IS just summer league...however as was stated, all these guys are playing the same level of competition. IMHO, Booker has got to end up the superior player to Lawal or it's more egg on Ernie's face. 5 games in summer league dont determine anything, but let's not kid ourselves, if Lawal was on our roster and playing so well we'd all be thrilled about it. And many people here wanted to draft him.

All that said, neither guy has dribbled a ball in a reg season game, so no worries yet

Posted by: divi3

I'd agree with that. Even if Lawal and Booker basically end up even, it looks bad for EG. Even though technically people are wrong in saying that EG 'gave up two picks for him', he did jump up 7 spots in the first at the cost of 20 spots in the second.

But let's face it, neither Booker or Lawal were really being promoted pre-draft as big-time players or even starters. Just undersized PFs you hope turn into good role players or maybe get lucky and end up with another Paul Millsap. The only other way it gets trumped is if somehow Ndiaye turns into a gem, then it doesn't seem as bad.

My problem right now with the Booker vs Lawal vs Caracter vs whoever comparisons right now is how they were used. Especially early on, Caracter was a feature of their offense. They gave him a lot of opportunities on the low-box. To his credit, he also has a decent game down there. Same, to a lesser extent with Lawal. They didn't run much at all for Booker, and he was running mainly with the first unit with Wall, McGee and Martin getting most of the action. I would have been happier had Booker gotten more rebounds. But I did think, especially in the last couple of games, that his hustle and aggressiveness started to show through.

My concern with Caracter's game is that he doesn't seem to have a lot of lift. A lot of it is based on size/strength and skill. Obviously the skill translates, but I think he'll have a harder time getting the position and shots he wants in the pros even against backups. And he'll have a harder time shooting over the top of them. It all remains to be seen of course. Maybe he's the next Big Baby.

And it's always important to remember that it takes some players (especially bigs) longer to adjust to the NBA than others. Someone mentioned Yi being on his third team. Chanuncey Billups was on his 4th or 5th before he started to come into his own. Same with Ben Wallace.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Caracter's issues don't disappear just because of one summer league. He's still a questionable NBA player due his entire package.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 19, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

But it was reported Gee was staying and I think flip even said we signed him...then he was gone the next day. Correct me if i'm wrong, but his rights expired on a sunday night or something and we missed some kind of deadline? Or opportunity?

Exactly. So clearly the Wizards extended the offer to Gee. He may have even agreed to sign but determined San Antonio's offer was better. Maybe the 2nd year? Or that playoff bonus.

Alonzo Gee is a non-factor. He's done nothing. Granted he played well here...he's still a D-League talent for now.

He made his choice.

The Hinrich conversation is beat to death. He's a solid veteran on a short contract that brings something nobody else on our team does.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

let's just hope Yi isnt 25yrs old as is widely suspected.

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Its not apples to apples...The reason they traded up (i think anyways) and picked up booker over just waiting for Lawal is because Booker has great athleticism and brings more to the table. Lawal, is better for a half court team I think (using his grit/ rebounding prowess etc.). With booker, you are getting a guy who flies up and down the court to team up with Wall. Remember, they are building around Wall and getting players who are athletic and can run with him. Also, Flip was saying that they are putting a lot on Booker's plate because of all the tools he brings (mid range jumper, inside strength, rebounding) so he is a bit overwhelmed. You can tell by the way he is tentative and playing outside-in. When he adjusts his game, he will be a great role player.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 19, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"That's really the issue, I think. Veteran players in their thirties are focused on the possibility of advancing in the playoffs. That's how they evaluate potential employers. A possible contender gets the nod if the $$ are even reasonably close. And we see the vets lining up at Pat Riley's door for a last chance at a ring. They'd probably play for meal money.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse "

So why would Brad Miller sign with Houston vice Miami or Boston for meal money?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Agree to disagree, I would say Hinrich is more a non-factor than Gee, given what this team's supposed situation is. On one hand we're supposed to be ok with another lottery year, but then on the other, signing an expensive vet to a 2yr deal somehow makes sense and not acquiring a promising young player like Gee is ok....while management wont stop talking about getting young talent in here to compete and build on. Bit of a disconnect imo.

I dont get it, unless Seraphin is considered the linchpin to all of it

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

"

ts35, Actually Shaq wouldn't be that bad of an idea under a midlevel contract. He's still a space filler and a pretty good defensive rebounder.

I know it sounds completely farfetched, but the big guy still wants to play a few more years, I really don't believe he's following LeBron to Miami, so he's going to be looking around for a spot to play.

When Shaq left LA he was lucky enough to pair with DWade in Miami for another title. Was it luck? Or did the big guy see a chance to team with a young star on the rise? He then tried to team up with BronBron for another run in Cleveland.

The BiG GuY has an eye for putting himself together with young talent. The pairing with a group of vets in AZ didn't work out, neither did the run in Cleveland. Maybe the BiG GuY wants to try signing on with the next big thing.

Right now after summer league the brightest new light in the league is John Wall. Stranger things have happened in the NBA, so it wouldn't shock me to see the big guy sniffing around to see what he thought of the Wizards and this roster.

Wilt finished out his career in LA as a defensive rebounding machine for the Lakers springing their running game.

H'mm, Shaq to Arenas or Wall. It's got a nice sound. Having the big guy down low would jump start the development of this team in a lot of ways.

Leonsis would probably never wine and dine the big guy like he'd need to to bring him here. But then again Leonsis was the driving force behind bringing Jordan here. Some would view a Shaq to DC move as another typical circus move. But having a big body inside just makes every thing easier for the young guys to growup together.

Shaq's gonna land some where. In some ways DC makes as much sense as any where else...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 19, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse "

Yeah, Shaq coming here would be great for team chemistry....especially between him and Gilby.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

So why would Brad Miller sign with Houston vice Miami or Boston for meal money?

Posted by: DC_MAN88

Because, aside from them being a legit playoff team and possible contender if Yao is healthy, I guess you skipped the part in the article you keep posting where Adelman remains a good friend of Miller's and his favorite coach.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

AGREED!!! Jeez, did everyone forget that Shaq boinked gils wife?

Posted by: merajc86 | July 19, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Gee can't carry Hinrich's jock - he's D-League caliber player and Hinrich has shown he belongs in the NBA from day one. So enough with that silliness.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 19, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Chris Paul is "open" to a trade and Rick Bonnell of The Charlotte Observer thinks there is a remote chance the All-Star point guard could land with the Bobcats.

From ESPN Rumors....which I post for no other reason than it would suck for Livingston.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Allowing Lebron to dictate the acquisition of Jamison (or amare) may have been Cleveland's undoing....Hickson has looked like ALL THAT for awhile now, and a kid who could develop into something under Lebron's wing. I'd say they'd have been better off force feeding Hickson minutes headed into the playoffs, he can play at both ends

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse
Aj sealed hickson's fate last season. he was "coming on " *pause* for most of last season and then exiled during the playoffs, when they coulda used his toughness .

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

let's just hope Yi isnt 25yrs old as is widely suspected.

Posted by: divi3 | July 19, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

cuz lord knows players lose all of their skills at the age of 26. Get serious holmes no need to nit pick. who you want a 22 yr old bum or a 25 yr old that can play. Yi avg'd 12 and 7 last year. Give him a chance to lace'em up before you judge him. He doesn't look that bad.......didn't we get him for damn near free?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Agree to disagree, I would say Hinrich is more a non-factor than Gee, given what this team's supposed situation is. On one hand we're supposed to be ok with another lottery year, but then on the other, signing an expensive vet to a 2yr deal somehow makes sense and not acquiring a promising young player like Gee is ok....

So what if Gee had a contract offer and he woke up and decided "You know what, I'd rather go to San Antonio...I know that system and I get a playoff bonus." Or he could stay here and not know who is going to be here...coach, owner and players included. San Antonio is a more stable situation...and for a D-Leaguer...thats more important. In my opinion.

The backcourt needed some stablity. Gil...who knows. Nick can't even remember plays. Hinrich showed he can play with a Rose type player so I'm all for it. At least he'll play some damn defense.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Gee was already part of the San Antonio family or at least, he felt part of it having been with the Austin Toros before the Wizards called him up from NBDL.

Wizards gave him two 10 day contracts and then offered him guaranteed salary till the end of the season. The future was uncertain, there were rumors of an ownership change, rumors of rebuilding. The team was patched together and headed to the lottery.

The Spurs offered Gee till the end of the season, the playoffs, the summer and partially guaranteed 2010 season. The team was aiming for the playoffs and more. He was probably their insurance guy for the playoffs in case anyone got hurt before then.

Which one do you think Gee should have taken?
And why do you think Grunfeld was not able to make more moves/offer more at the time?

To mix metaphores, I think that 20/20 hindsight whine is done, stick a fork in it.

Posted by: rickgonz | July 19, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

They were saying they think Stern is going to give Delonte a 3-5 game suspension for next season.

Posted by: SDMDTSU

Are they even having a season in Cleveland next year?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 19, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

i wouldn't risk carpal tunnel putting the merits of Alonzo Gee against those of Captain Kirk. Gee's a d leaguer right? Let these guys live and die with Gee. He's a real exciting player, but maybe not the type of player we need. i like Cartier's consistency outside, and his heady play. If he sticks he should finally make yall forget about Roger Mason. Anybody else like Cartier over Gee? no rim rattlin dunks, but those are only worth 2 pts, Cart Mart has the 3 ball in the corner pocket all day.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Are they even having a season in Cleveland next year?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 19, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Doubt he'll be in Cleveland...I know people wanted to see his suspension in contrast to Gil's 50. We'll see though.

I still think Cleveland is going to make the playoffs though.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: prescrunk | July 19, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone else amused that, in all the articles concerning Miller with the Heat, they always mention he had career highs in 3P%?

Nobody mentions he had a career low in attempts.

I really liked the guy. Wish his heart wasn't riding on Lebron's coattails.

Posted by: crs-1 | July 19, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

So why would Brad Miller sign with Houston vice Miami or Boston for meal money?
Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Rick Adelman.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Agree to disagree, I would say Hinrich is more a non-factor than Gee, given what this team's supposed situation is. On one hand we're supposed to be ok with another lottery year, but then on the other, signing an expensive vet to a 2yr deal somehow makes sense and not acquiring a promising young player like Gee is ok....
Posted by: divi3

So what if Gee had a contract offer and he woke up and decided "You know what, I'd rather go to San Antonio...I know that system and I get a playoff bonus." Or he could stay here and not know who is going to be here...coach, owner and players included. San Antonio is a more stable situation...and for a D-Leaguer...thats more important. In my opinion.
Posted by: SDMDTSU

Not having Gee is not the end of the world or anything, it's a relatively small thing in the overall scheme. So whether Gee just decided he preferred SA, or if it was the partial guarantee SA gave him, or even if Flip and EG just got caught napping at the wheel, thinking of course the kid would extend with them, I don't think it's a big deal or a big mistake. I'm fine with Cartier Martin (as long as we don't have to hear 'The Story' anymore. It's currently in the running for next year's ESPYs as most overused anecdote).

All of that being said, I'm a little bit with divi on this one. Gee showed promise and a brought a lot of athleticism and excitement. No way they could have known then, but can you imagine having him with Wall now? Between him and JaVale, it would be an -Oop fest. Even though they were still going through negotiations over ownership, etc at the time, tough to argue against guaranteeing the kid for the full minimum this upcoming year, esp if Ted already knew he wanted to stay out of the big-name FA market and work with younger players. I don't know if that still would have trumped SA's partial guarantee, but it would have been worth a shot -- or maybe they did take that shot and he still said no.

All-in-all a minor blip.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Cartier over Gee? no rim rattlin dunks, but those are only worth 2 pts, Cart Mart has the 3 ball in the corner pocket all day.

Agreed. I like Martin. I'm hoping Lester Hudson sticks too. Been a fan of his for a while now.

I'm in favor of Singleton staying...but it's not looking good.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Also remember that in the 2009 season, the Rockets finished 53-29 and took the Lakers to seven games after losing Yao in the third contest.

Yao's back.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Anybody else like Cartier over Gee? no rim rattlin dunks, but those are only worth 2 pts, Cart Mart has the 3 ball in the corner pocket all day.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

If you look back at his time here, Gee also did a respectable job knocking down the three.

There's not a ton of difference between the two for me except for the Gee's hops, so ultimately, not a huge deal. But those hops sure were nice weren't they? ;-)

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if that still would have trumped SA's partial guarantee, but it would have been worth a shot -- or maybe they did take that shot and he still said no.

All-in-all a minor blip.

Agreed. If I was Gee...I would take the San Antonio money. Easy. LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm hoping Lester Hudson sticks too. Been a fan of his for a while now.

Posted by: SDMDTSU

Yeah, I'm down with Hudson sticking too. He's showed enough to earn a shot at a roster spot in training camp. Decent size, hustles hard on D, still needs to work on running the team, but for a 3rd PG / 5th guard type, he seems like a good fit.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Agreed. If I was Gee...I would take the San Antonio money. Easy. LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU

Yep. The biggest thing in favor of DC is that he would be playing a lot more in the NBA. He'd be in the running for the starting 3 with us this year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Alonzo Gee,
Apparently Flip wanted Gee signed for the rest of the season. Ernie allowed the option to sign Gee for the rest of the season lapse and Gee became a free agent that the Spurs quickly snapped up.
I remember CSN's Chris Miller being surprised.
http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2010/3/27/1392513/alonzo-gee-to-be-signed-by

In terms of Hinrich, I've liked Hinrich since his days at Kansas. But I agree with Div3, the Wiz will more than likely stink for the next two years so what's the point in having a $17 Million back up guard?

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 19, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

In terms of Hinrich, I've liked Hinrich since his days at Kansas. But I agree with Div3, the Wiz will more than likely stink for the next two years so what's the point in having a $17 Million back up guard?
Posted by: bozomoeman

Because on a young team, it's good to have some professional veterans as examples. Even though I disagree with DCMAN_88 about the relative value of Brad Miller, we do agree about the value of having some veteran 'mentors' on the team.

$17M is a lot for a 'mentor' no doubt. The only pluses are that Hinrich is still relatively young and will contribute, his contract is only for 2 years, and his salary goes down next year instead of the normal NBA contract where the salary goes up from year to year.

Even if he's not a 'mentor' per se to Wall (it looks like Cassell might have already -- rightfully -- earned an inside track on that) he will set an example, in preparation and in play. Arenas will actually do some of that as well. He's always been known as a hard worker. It's just also good to have someone like Hinrich, who at least works hard on defense. Hopefully Wall absorbs the right amounts of Gil's swagger, Hinrich's tenacity and Cassell's guile to go along with his own ridiculous athletic gifts.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Yep. The biggest thing in favor of DC is that he would be playing a lot more in the NBA. He'd be in the running for the starting 3 with us this year.

Hypothetically...who knew we would get the 1st pick? Say we get the 4th pick and take Wesley Johnson? He's out on the street again most likely. Better off taking a chance on the tema that already invested in him.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 19, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Because on a young team, it's good to have some professional veterans as examples. Even though I disagree with DCMAN_88 about the relative value of Brad Miller, we do agree about the value of having some veteran 'mentors' on the team.

$17M is a lot for a 'mentor' no doubt. The only pluses are that Hinrich is still relatively young and will contribute, his contract is only for 2 years, and his salary goes down next year instead of the normal NBA contract where the salary goes up from year to year.

Even if he's not a 'mentor' per se to Wall (it looks like Cassell might have already -- rightfully -- earned an inside track on that) he will set an example, in preparation and in play. Arenas will actually do some of that as well. He's always been known as a hard worker. It's just also good to have someone like Hinrich, who at least works hard on defense. Hopefully Wall absorbs the right amounts of Gil's swagger, Hinrich's tenacity and Cassell's guile to go along with his own ridiculous athletic gifts.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

17M might not be too much if he becomes the starter mid season due to trade or has to take over the 1 or 2 spot cuz of injury to Gil. I'm not that down on Kirk, he's a gamer.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"No, actually I think it's a good idea, I just don't think Brad Miller is the guy. Not at 3yrs+ at $15M+. If we picked him as a year and half rental like Chicago did, then maybe."

Only 2 years of that deal is guaranteed. I don't see any other vetern C's out there that will cost less.

"No, just pointing out that you seem to automatically accept everything every non-Wizard says at face-value. And discount anything a Wizard says because they're a Wizard."

And I've been proven to be correct at the end, time after time. Something must be working.

"Nope, I just figured if you were going to overhype Brad Miller, I should compensate the other way. Plus, Miami signed Haslem first, Boston signed O'Neal first, Houston re-signed Scola first and also said specifically that they were bringing in Miller to back up Yao, and Chicago didn't consider him so invaluable that it was worth beating Houston's offer to keep the guy who was their backup center last year. All of which says Miller wasn't their top priority."

So you're proving no point after all. Pretty much a wasted argument.

Neither Haslem, nor O'Neal, nor Scola are true centers.

"In terms of Shaq and Kurt Thomas, I just thought we were in the mode of throwing out players who aren't going to come to the Wizards so we could complain about why EG 'failed' to sign them. Kurt Thomas at least makes a modicum of sense because he'd be cheaper and he's known as a very smart, savvy post defender. That's a guy I'd be okay with mentoring AB, McGee and the rest, even though he's past his prime for playing a lot of minutes. But again, he's not coming here. Neither would Shaq and neither would Brad Miller. Which brings us back to why would Miller choose to sign with the Wiz? Have you said that yet?"

I don't see Shaq as a mentor to anyone, and Kurt Thomas is an overhyped PF who has done nothing to help the Knicks, the Suns, nor the Spurs get any closer to a ring when he was brought in with much fanfare for that purpose.

Nobody knows whether Brad Miller would choose to sign here b/c evidently, neither EG nor the coaching staff have the foresight to see that the young bigs on this team need either a true veteran C or a big man coach to help the team. All we keep hearing about is how EG is going back to the future to pick up lottery busts.

"I scrolled up and tried to find the part where you make the case where it makes sense to Brad Miller, couldn't find it. But given that we're around 400 entries now, maybe I just missed. Please enlighten.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse "

It makes sense to Brad Miller b/c there's no pressure for him to help take a team over the top. If he was willing to step up to such, then he wouldn't have signed with Houston. In Houston, he's not required to step up, and he's not required to mentor any of their youth. Nevermind where he went, what matters is that EG isn't making an attept to address this issue.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

"Because, aside from them being a legit playoff team and possible contender if Yao is healthy, I guess you skipped the part in the article you keep posting where Adelman remains a good friend of Miller's and his favorite coach.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse "

You're going off on a tangent. The original poster wrote that most vets would want to sign with a contender to get a ring...not sign with a team b/c the player loves the coach. In Brad's case, he signed with Houston, which didn't make the playoffs last season, which goes against the OP's argument. Pay attention..

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"AGREED!!! Jeez, did everyone forget that Shaq boinked gils wife?

Posted by: merajc86 | July 19, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse "

If Gilby was smart, he wouldn't marry that hoe. After all, she's still his fiance, not wife yet.

Gilby's fiance is sisters with Matt Barnes's wife. I'm sure their parents are proud that they both are hangers on hoes to NBA ballers.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

who knows the roles these girls parents had in their lives, it could be the very reason why they are the way they are. Fathers, love your daughters.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 19, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"Rick Adelman.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse "

You're original posting was "vets sign b/c they want a ring," not b/c they want to be reunited with their old coach.


That's really the issue, I think. Veteran players in their thirties are focused on the possibility of advancing in the playoffs. That's how they evaluate potential employers. A possible contender gets the nod if the $$ are even reasonably close. And we see the vets lining up at Pat Riley's door for a last chance at a ring. They'd probably play for meal money.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 19, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Your

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Only 2 years of that deal is guaranteed. I don't see any other vetern C's out there that will cost less.

Assuming he would be willing to sign the same deal with the Wiz, which is not likely.

And I've been proven to be correct at the end, time after time. Something must be working.

That would be your imagination, which is clearly working over time.

So you're proving no point after all. Pretty much a wasted argument.

Neither Haslem, nor O'Neal, nor Scola are true centers.

O'Neal is, but even if you argue he isn't, what does it say that those teams would rather sign those guys first over your 'true' center?

Nobody knows whether Brad Miller would choose to sign here b/c evidently, neither EG nor the coaching staff have the foresight to see that the young bigs on this team need either a true veteran C or a big man coach to help the team. All we keep hearing about is how EG is going back to the future to pick up lottery busts.

As you're fond of saying, you're not privy to whether they called Miller's agent to see if he has any interest. He might have told them not to bother. But with your Wizard-hating blinders, you automatically assume that they didn't.

It makes sense to Brad Miller b/c there's no pressure for him to help take a team over the top. If he was willing to step up to such, then he wouldn't have signed with Houston.

In Brad's case, he signed with Houston, which didn't make the playoffs last season, which goes against the OP's argument. Pay attention..

LOL! Me pay attention? Step out of your fantasy world for a moment. Houston was a .500 team without their best player (Yao) who they get back. They definitely have legit aspirations to be a playoff team and if things break their way, maybe make some noise. Kind of a different vibe than being the mentor for the 'rebuilding' Wiz. Much like Chicago, Houston at least will be competitive. Miller may not be sacrificing his salary to be on one of the top contenders, but he's not volunteering to join a cellar-dweller either.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"Assuming he would be willing to sign the same deal with the Wiz, which is not likely."

Not only is this pure conjecture, but also a dead issue.

"That would be your imagination, which is clearly working over time."

My imagination is your reality.

"O'Neal is, but even if you argue he isn't, what does it say that those teams would rather sign those guys first over your 'true' center?"

I guess that makes you almost 33% correct. Who knows why those teams signed those players? You don't.

"As you're fond of saying, you're not privy to whether they called Miller's agent to see if he has any interest. He might have told them not to bother. But with your Wizard-hating blinders, you automatically assume that they didn't."

You agreed that Les BouleS needed a big man coach, or some centers like Shaq or others. Until they do that, then you have no case that they are serious about winning.

"LOL! Me pay attention? Step out of your fantasy world for a moment. Houston was a .500 team without their best player (Yao) who they get back. They definitely have legit aspirations to be a playoff team and if things break their way, maybe make some noise. Kind of a different vibe than being the mentor for the 'rebuilding' Wiz. Much like Chicago, Houston at least will be competitive. Miller may not be sacrificing his salary to be on one of the top contenders, but he's not volunteering to join a cellar-dweller either.

Posted by: ts35 | July 19, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse "

Their best player? What has their best player done to help them deep into the playoffs into championship contention. Just b/c a team has a "best player" doesn't make the team any good.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 19, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Not only is this pure conjecture, but also a dead issue.

Certainly not any more conjecture than your theory that Miller would sign here for "less pressure". But, how likely is it that Miller would agree to the same deal he is accepting to play with a winning team and for his favorite coach?

My imagination is your reality.

Lose your illusions.

I guess that makes you almost 33% correct. Who knows why those teams signed those players? You don't.

First of all, I wasn't (and haven't) argued positions, that's all been your hang up with having a 'true' center. Will Perdue was a 7ft true center. Didn't mean he was any good. Secondly, I don't know why those teams signed those players, I just know that they signed them instead of Miller. If 3yrs $15M was his going rate, that's a lot better deal for Miami's cap than Haslem got. Seems like they know something you don't.

You agreed that Les BouleS needed a big man coach, or some centers like Shaq or others. Until they do that, then you have no case that they are serious about winning.

They have a big man's coach. Hard to assess his effectiveness when the work ethic of the players has been in question. But the Wiz could always use more in that area. They should also try to send them to Grover or Newell's camp (if they still have it) or Dream's Academy. In that, we agree. They should do everything they can. They are serious about winning, though. They're just on a different schedule than you are.

In terms of C's like Shaq, no, I don't think they need Shaq, I was being sarcastic. A vet like Thomas would be a start, because he's cheap, but very experienced and widely regarded as among the smarter post defenders in the game. But he's just as unlikely to come here unless they overpay, which I am not in favor of.

My contention, from the start, is that it doesn't make sense to bring in a 34 year old C for 3+ years for $15M or more, especially just based off of one comment by a former teammate as Miller is walking out the door.

Their best player? What has their best player done to help them deep into the playoffs into championship contention. Just b/c a team has a "best player" doesn't make the team any good.

Their prior three years, when Yao was reasonably healthy, they won 52, 55, and 53 games. In the Western Conference. That qualifies them as pretty good. Without him, they advanced in the playoffs and gave the Lakers all they could handle. They were still over .500 without him last year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 20, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"Certainly not any more conjecture than your theory that Miller would sign here for "less pressure". But, how likely is it that Miller would agree to the same deal he is accepting to play with a winning team and for his favorite coach?"

My theory was that EG should have gone after Miller....whether or not Miller would sign is anyone's guess..whether likely or unlikely. The point is that EG would rather go with lottery busts (e.g. Marriott) vice a veteran center.

"Lose your illusions."

I guess your reality bites.

"First of all, I wasn't (and haven't) argued positions, that's all been your hang up with having a 'true' center. Will Perdue was a 7ft true center. Didn't mean he was any good. Secondly, I don't know why those teams signed those players, I just know that they signed them instead of Miller. If 3yrs $15M was his going rate, that's a lot better deal for Miami's cap than Haslem got. Seems like they know something you don't."

Yeah, Will Perdue was good enough to last 13 seasons and help the Bulls and Spurs win rings. Who knows why Haslem was resigned, but maybe b/c he's a known quantity with the Heat and Miller isn't. Maybe DWade pulled a Gilby and said Haslem must be resigned.

"They have a big man's coach. Hard to assess his effectiveness when the work ethic of the players has been in question. But the Wiz could always use more in that area. They should also try to send them to Grover or Newell's camp (if they still have it) or Dream's Academy. In that, we agree. They should do everything they can. They are serious about winning, though. They're just on a different schedule than you are."

Who's their big man coach? If there is one, then he should be fired.

What schedule do you prefer? EG's 10 year plan? Most GM's don't last when they go to the lottery back to back, and make boneheaded FA acquisitions that end up getting shipped out or untradeabl

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

"In terms of C's like Shaq, no, I don't think they need Shaq, I was being sarcastic. A vet like Thomas would be a start, because he's cheap, but very experienced and widely regarded as among the smarter post defenders in the game. But he's just as unlikely to come here unless they overpay, which I am not in favor of."

Please....don't try to back out of your silly recommendations after I point out how blatantly silly they are.

"My contention, from the start, is that it doesn't make sense to bring in a 34 year old C for 3+ years for $15M or more, especially just based off of one comment by a former teammate as Miller is walking out the door."

Again, Miller is only guaranteed 2 years out of his deal, and if Miller turned out to be a bust, he'd be nowhere near as bad as other EG signings such as Etan, MeTawn, or Gilby.

"Their prior three years, when Yao was reasonably healthy, they won 52, 55, and 53 games. In the Western Conference. That qualifies them as pretty good. Without him, they advanced in the playoffs and gave the Lakers all they could handle. They were still over .500 without him last year.

Posted by: ts35 | July 20, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse "

Which clearly demonstrates that Yao ain't as important to them as you think he is.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 20, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

My theory was that EG should have gone after Miller....whether or not Miller would sign is anyone's guess..whether likely or unlikely. The point is that EG would rather go with lottery busts (e.g. Marriott) vice a veteran center.

You have no proof that they didn't inquire about Miller. What we do know is that his owner has expressed an preference for not spending a lot of FA dollars this year.

I guess your reality bites.

Not at all, I just believe in the importance of being earnest.

Yeah, Will Perdue was good enough to last 13 seasons and help the Bulls and Spurs win rings.

So did Bill Wennington, so did Stacey King, so did any number of stiffs. Based on that level of reckoning I guess they should sign Adam Morrison, he has two rings with the Lakers.

Who knows why Haslem was resigned, but maybe b/c he's a known quantity with the Heat and Miller isn't. Maybe DWade pulled a Gilby and said Haslem must be resigned.

Sure, also maybe the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny recommended him.

Who's their big man coach? If there is one, then he should be fired.

I love it. No idea of who you're talking about, but absolutely sure he should be fired.

What schedule do you prefer? EG's 10 year plan? Most GM's don't last when they go to the lottery back to back, and make boneheaded FA acquisitions that end up getting shipped out or untradeable

I'm fine with Ted's plan.

Please....don't try to back out of your silly recommendations after I point out how blatantly silly they are.

ROFL, not my fault if you can't recognize sarcasm. As I said, I thought we were trading blatantly silly recommendations.

Again, Miller is only guaranteed 2 years out of his deal, and if Miller turned out to be a bust, he'd be nowhere near as bad as other EG signings such as Etan, MeTawn, or Gilby.

Again, Miller is only fully guaranteed 2 years, plus $1M of the third *by Houston*. There's no reasonable expectation that he would have signed here for that. Especially given his revelation today that he really wanted to go to Texas if he could.

And so your standard for 'good' moves has now been lowered to 'not as crappy as other moves that have been made'? Bravo for raising the bar.

Which clearly demonstrates that Yao ain't as important to them as you think he is.

Or....just as clearly shows that they're going to be that much better now that he's back. I mean, after all, Yao's a 7ft true center.

Posted by: ts35 | July 21, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

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