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Wizards are the "tortoise" that likes Josh Childress


The Wizards traded the rights for you, Ricky. Maybe they'll take me. (Getty Images)


The Wizards likely won't sign anyone right away, but on the first day of the free agent negotiating period, they reached out to several free agents to express interest in their services. According to multiple league sources, they have already contacted the representatives for Mike Miller, Josh Howard, Josh Childress, Travis Outlaw, Rasual Butler and Ryan Gomes, hoping to address their need for a veteran wing player. As it stands, Al Thornton and to a lesser extent, Nick Young, are the only small forwards on the roster. Yi Jianlian could possibly play on the wing, but is probably better suited at power forward.

Wizards owner Ted Leonsis wrote on his blog that the team "will be the tortoise" and move slowly toward building a championship team, rather than put all of their hopes in luring a free agent that isn't promised to go anywhere. "What happens to a fan base that has been promised a bunch of new max free agents, and then it doesn't get them delivered?" Leonsis writes. "It actually feels good to NOT be holding our collective breathe right now, doesn't it?"

After getting Kirk Hinrich, Yi and two draft picks, the Wizards don't have much money left to make a major free agent acquisition. And, given the money that the so-called financially strapped owners have already started doling out, they could find themselves priced out in their pursuit of some of the players on their target list.

If the first day of the free agent negotiating period is that owners are spending money like it's burning holes in their pockets. The Atlanta Hawks have reportedly offered Joe Johnson a maximum contract worth $119 million over the next six years despite his disappearing act in the second round of the playoffs. Darko Milicic got $20 million and Drew Gooden, a Wizards for about 15 minutes, got $32 million.

Memphis shocked many around the league by locking up Rudy Gay, a restricted free agent, to a maximum contract worth $82 million without waiting to match an offer sheet from another team.

Gay, the Baltimore native, had been the favorite for many fans hoping for someone with hometown roots to play for the Wizards. But even if the Wizards had money for a run, I doubt if they could've given him that much -- no matter how much they like him. We haven't even gotten to LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh or Amaré Stoudemire yet.


I'm helping a lot of guys get paid. (AP Photo)

With Gay signing and Johnson possibly staying in Atlanta helps a lot of players get paid because there are still a lot of teams with available cap space. And teams like New York and New Jersey desperately need to make a major splash to justify the past few miserable seasons in that area.

Miller met with the New York Knicks and supposedly the Miami Heat in the first few hours in Los Angeles. His price has likely already increased, with teams needing a player who can spread the floor and hit open shots. Miller would probably feel more encouraged to shoot on a team where his contributions would actually help a team win games.

Another player whose price tag may have increased is Childress, who has spent the last two seasons in Greece after signing a three-year, $20-million deal with Olympiacos that allows him to opt out and return to the NBA.

Rumors began to circulate last week that Childress was headed to Washington, which made little sense because he is presently the property of the Hawks, who made a qualifying offer to make him a restricted free agent. That was shot down by two league sources. One said the report was "completely erroneous." I spoke to someone who talked to Childress last week and they told me that Childress didn't know anything about it.

I can tell you that the Wizards' interest in Childress in genuine. He was among the players the Wizards considered taking in 2004 before dealing the fifth pick to Dallas in a trade for Antawn Jamison. President Ernie Grunfeld was in Paris for the EuroLeague Final Four and watch Childress and former All-Met player Linas Kleiza lose to Ricky Rubio and Juan Carlos Navarro of Barcelona in the championship game. Once source said the presence of Grunfeld led to speculation that simply spun out of control.

But if the Hawks keep Johnson, they likely wouldn't have any money to match a contract offer for Childress. The Wizards are among about eight NBA teams to reach out to his agent, Chris Emens of Octagon Sports. Childress will have leverage in any situation since he lives rather comfortably in Athens and isn't desperate for a return to NBA. He averaged 15.2 points and 4.8 rebounds in 20 EuroLeague games last season. A Stanford alum, Childress has a reputation as a solid pro and would fall in line with the Wizards desire to add more character guys to the roster.

Outlaw is an incredible athlete, who averaged 9.1 points last season with Portland and the Los Angeles Clippers. Butler, a seven-year veteran, averaged 11.9 points and 2.9 rebounds last season, also with the Clippers. Gomes became a free agent this week after Portland waived him shortly after a draft-day deal with Minnesota.

By Michael Lee  |  July 1, 2010; 5:41 PM ET
 
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Next: Amare Stoudemire, Knicks agree to deal

Comments

"Miller would probably feel more encouraged to shoot on a team where his contributions would actually help a team win games."

Just dreadful Mike Lee, dreadful!

Posted by: divi3 | July 1, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

re: Childress

LMAO!

I know Wiz management reads this blog to come up with ideas on how to improve the team. Yes, I suggested going after Childress.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

I agree with divi3. Are you saying that Miller had a bad attitude last season and purposely did not shoot because the team wasn't winning, Michael? What a stunning comment.

Posted by: disgruntledfan | July 1, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Mike Miller can help the Knicks win games? Maybe circa 1998.

The Stinkabockers have no big man and no point guard, the two most vital aspects for a perimeter shooter.

Posted by: elfreako | July 1, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Were you suggesting that in May, DC? Cuz that's when EG was at the Euro Final Four.

Considering that and the Grunfeld's son was on the same Stanford team as Childress, safe to say he keeps Childress on his radar.

But to your credit, it is a good idea.

Posted by: ts35 | July 1, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Wizards owner Ted Leonsis wrote on his blog that the team "will be the tortoise" and move slowly toward building a championship team...

Ted how slow 2025?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Wizards owner Ted Leonsis wrote on his blog that the team "will be the tortoise" and move slowly toward building a championship team...

Ted how slow 2025?

Posted by: bulletsfan78

ROFL! He's been the owner for what...a month? Month and a half?

Posted by: ts35 | July 1, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

ts35

Maybe Ted will send us an email and let us know when he is closer to building a championship team, that way we'll know when we should start buying season tickets?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Wizards faithful, you should be rejoicing that you don't have a GM throwing money around like a drunken sailor on liberty. At some point the other teams, sated on fattening, overstuffed free agents, will have to forgo some of the solid players left on the outside looking in, and Ernest will swoop them up just as surely as an eagle catching its prey!

As is the norm, many of you will bellyache and moan that we missed out on this free agent or that and you will be guilty of taking your eyes off the ultimate prize--assembling a team that will vie for an NBA title. Ernest Grunfeld is in the process of assembling that team and, at a time and place of his choosing, will grab a free agent critical to that ultimate goal.

Long-term success requires patience, mental acuity and uncommon restraint. Based on his recent acquisitions (again, he's finally free to make the proper decisions), it goes without saying that Ernest has those qualities in spades.

In Grunfeld We Trust!!

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 1, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

ts35

Maybe Ted will send us an email and let us know when he is closer to building a championship team, that way we'll know when we should start buying season tickets?

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Well, we're closer than we were a month ago, so I'm going to say go ahead and start now.

Posted by: ts35 | July 1, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Didn't we get 3 picks -- Booker, Ndiaye, and Seraphin (once July 8th comes around)?

Posted by: stranger_station | July 1, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Ted will send us an email and let us know when he is closer to building a championship team, that way we'll know when we should start buying season tickets?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 6:33 PM

gotta admit, I know what Leonsis was trying to impart (the tortoise did win the race), but maybe wasn't the best analogy for the ears of the faithful. That sounds like we're just going to wait for Lebron, DWade, and Bosh to grow old.

Something about steady, consistent, progress every year would have sounded a little more comforting!

Posted by: divi3 | July 1, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Didn't we get 3 picks -- Booker, Ndiaye, and Seraphin (once July 8th comes around)?

Posted by: stranger_station

Four if you count Wall. Three perhaps if you figure Ndiaye's contract won't be guaranteed.

Posted by: ts35 | July 1, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Wizards faithful, you should be rejoicing that you don't have a GM throwing money around like a drunken sailor on liberty. At some point the other teams, sated on fattening, overstuffed free agents, will have to forgo some of the solid players left on the outside looking in, and Ernest will swoop them up just as surely as an eagle catching its prey!

Posted by: melodious_thunk

Promise?

Posted by: artiesliver | July 1, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

I think it's too early in the rebuild to sign a player like Childress. Picking up a starter when the team is still lottery bound is a waste of money, flexibility, and future ping pong balls. Outlaw is an Ernie player - athletic, low BB-IQ. That would be a horrible signing. Gomes seems redundant with Booker already on the team. I could live with Butler, but he's not much more valuable than a D-League vet.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 1, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Who are me most likely to nail down for $5-6 mil at SF? Who will coach our bigs?

Posted by: stranger_station | July 1, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

They have also contacted Travis Outlaw reps. Childress is restricted but with them trowing that big contract to Joe Johnson they probally won't match the offer we would make him.

Posted by: dakel76 | July 1, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Childress is just OK. He is not that tough. I don't know when he'll be game ready but Howard is the answer for the Wizards at the 3. Forget about all of his baggage and just hope for a speedy recovery and inexspensive signing. The same with Gilbert. If Gilbert and Josh are not in jail on Jan. 1, 2011, they should be complimenting Wall as their leader as they struggle for a playoff berth. Right know. Not later. If healthy J. Howard is that good.

Posted by: AscotAmos | July 1, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

I think it's too early in the rebuild to sign a player like Childress. Picking up a starter when the team is still lottery bound is a waste of money, flexibility, and future ping pong balls. Outlaw is an Ernie player - athletic, low BB-IQ. That would be a horrible signing. Gomes seems redundant with Booker already on the team. I could live with Butler, but he's not much more valuable than a D-League vet.

Posted by: djnnnou

I see what you're saying about Childress, but I think it's an ok signing depending on the money and length of contract. You're going to have a ton of young players coming through and you're also trying to establish a culture, so it makes sense to have some vets (especially vets like Childress who are still young) around who reflect what you're trying to establish.

Trying to match his current Greek contract (3 yrs, $20M) I think it too much, but 2 years at $12M, or 3 yrs at $15-16M I think would work.

With the rest of the guys listed, I would only do 1 yr or maybe 2yr deals if the price was right.

Posted by: ts35 | July 1, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Wizards faithful, you should be rejoicing that you don't have a GM throwing money around like a drunken sailor on liberty. At some point the other teams, sated on fattening, overstuffed free agents, will have to forgo some of the solid players left on the outside looking in, and Ernest will swoop them up just as surely as an eagle catching its prey!

Posted by: melodious_thunk

Ah, sweet melody to our ears. Listening to your honeyed, finely crafted phrases is far more entertaining than any Wizards game could ever be.

At least with our current team.

Posted by: KTV1 | July 1, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

Where the NBA is concerned, Chilz ia an RFA and has had that status for two years. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain that Washington or any other team could contact him without any penalty.

As for the Hawks, they can match any offer for Chilz. The only question is how far over the cap the ownership is willing to go.

Posted by: Dr_Greg | July 1, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Trying to match his current Greek contract (3 yrs, $20M) I think it too much, but 2 years at $12M, or 3 yrs at $15-16M I think would work.

I think he's getting $30-40 mil. over 5 yrs. Maybe more. He's competing with Richard Jefferson as the 2nd best SF on the market.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 1, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

I would guess (and that's all it is) that whichever one of the SuperHungry teams -- NJ, NY, Chicago, Miami -- is left out in the cold will make Childress an offer. Supposedly he's a better player off the ball now than he was when he left the NBA for Greece. If Joe Johnson rejects Atlanta, the Hawks will certainly come after Childress. If Bosh rejects Houston, he's a candidate there, too.

We'll see.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 1, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

stop it with the garbage free agents stop it no more lower level talents. I;m okay if we go bad for 3 years or so its okay either get top tier stars or go bad and pray a big time talent joins wall here via draft in a couple years.

doing what we're doing is gonna be agonizing good enough to stay in games and lose in the last 6 minutes.

Ernie G must go NOW.

Posted by: jrwalkerivory | July 1, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

DC fans is still waiting for management to direct our franchise toward competitive respect. Direct Childress elsewhere, we want and deserve players that compete instead of being matadors. Hey overseers, get out of your finesse-doormat mindset. Mike Miller is an excellent NBA team player so why would the Wizards want him? Our team lack big MEN and nothing much in the last few weeks changes that. I feel Ernie is shooting for the 1st pick next year. Every year we go after the leftovers of free-agency but don't target the few reals one that can help. So we finesse up and say Ole'. Ernies draft picks last week are solid potential NBA players. We are just above an expansion franchise. I still follow the team.

Posted by: CTaylor42 | July 1, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Can someone start to proofread these insider posts? The information is great, but...

Posted by: trolly_time | July 1, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

I like the fact the Wizards have their eyes on the big prize and haven't fallen for the trap of spending money on high priced low production players.

It is a gaurantee Ernie/Ted's philosophy will produce a championship team long before the dreadfully run Skins will.

Posted by: dagr8dwalo | July 1, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

When considering Childress, is it the total value of a deal or the length that the Wizards should be more concerned with? If Hinrich is worth $17mill to the team at age 29, what is Childress worth at 27 and supposedly an improved player? Yi and Hinrich total $21mill.....does that make Childress worth $30mill? Or did those signings preclude looking at a player of Childress' standing until at least a year or two down the line when other stuff is off the books?

Personally I see Childress as out of our price range given our recent moves and the club's stated desire to not commit much to anyone at this time. So rather than Childress, we're looking at the likes of James Jones....how about just re-upping James Singleton and staying with the defense/grit theme?

Posted by: divi3 | July 1, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

I think he's getting $30-40 mil. over 5 yrs. Maybe more. He's competing with Richard Jefferson as the 2nd best SF on the market.

Posted by: djnnnou

Ouch. Maybe the low end, but the 5 years hurts.

Posted by: ts35 | July 1, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Miller apparently has a 5yr/$30mil offer from the Lakers. Crazy not to take it if true.

Posted by: akmed0 | July 1, 2010 10:08 PM | Report abuse

"Childress is just OK. He is not that tough. I don't know when he'll be game ready but Howard is the answer for the Wizards at the 3. Forget about all of his baggage and just hope for a speedy recovery and inexspensive signing. The same with Gilbert. "

i agree wholeheartedly. if healthy, howard is tough. gil, after being thoroughly chastened will be tough to deal with on the court.

Posted by: dcjazzman | July 1, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

"will be the tortoise" and move slowly toward building a championship team"

So long as Ernie "Wes" Grunfeld is the GM (Giant Moron) the Wizards will never win anything

Posted by: nativedc | July 1, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

After the Rudy Gay signing I'm starting to agree more and more with the strategy but still wary about the decision making of EG.

IMO Lebron/Bosh/Wade are the only max contract worthy free agents. We never had a shot at Rudy Gay for crying outloud, clearly the market is inflated.

Which I go back to this years draft and wonder if all that moving around cost us a pick or two that could have emerged as a contributer.

Posted by: Eman8 | July 1, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Who do I believe in?
Teddy L & EG?
Or a bunch of lowlife disloyal Wizards haterz?

Even that is an answer you nitwits can respond to.

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 1, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

"Wizards owner Ted Leonsis wrote on his blog that the team "will be the tortoise" and move slowly toward building a championship team...

Ted how slow 2025?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse "

Cut Ted some slack...it ain't easy moving 350+ lbs on a 5-6 frame.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

"What happens to a fan base that has been promised a bunch of new max free agents, and then it doesn't get them delivered?"

What happens to a fan base where the owner says he is going to take his time to try and build a championship?

Leonsis writes. "It actually feels good to NOT be holding our collective breathe right now, doesn't it?"

No...


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Who do I believe in?
Teddy L & EG?
Or a bunch of lowlife disloyal Wizards haterz?

Even that is an answer you nitwits can respond to.

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 1, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Rocc00

Some Clipper fans have been saying the same thing about Donald Sterling for years, but I think the Lakers may have a better winning formula.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse

By the way I have always said I would prefer Steve Bisciotti buy the Wizards since he is an owner who has the desire to win.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 1, 2010 11:58 PM | Report abuse

TRAVIS OUTLAW and AL THORNTON at the three, I like it.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 12:47 AM | Report abuse

No to CHILLS.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 12:49 AM | Report abuse

You guys need to relax. it's the first day. Everybody is waiting for the loser in cleveland, to make up his mind as to what team he's going to take over, before they make a move. There's a couple of servicable 3's on the fa list that may work out. I think we need to be focusing on the player type, more than the names of these guys. Josh Howard healthy is a good fit there. But there are less popular guys out there.

And what about our center position? we can't be done there. I like Mcgee, but is he ready to start?

And i havn't heard anything form nick young. Where does he fit in?

Posted by: burgess7911 | July 2, 2010 1:20 AM | Report abuse

Glawrence, I really hope you are just joking online. We need people that will be responsible for victories! Not guys that if only they developed A,B or C aspects of their game. Outlaw and Thornton will be teases for the forseeable future.

Posted by: AscotAmos | July 2, 2010 1:30 AM | Report abuse

Howard, Outlaw, Miller , Gomes, Childress, Butler, in that order. Fact. The only ones I would be excited about are Howard or Outlaw.

Posted by: bosshog7169 | July 2, 2010 1:54 AM | Report abuse

I think the Lakers may have a better winning formula.

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Yeah, but how do the Wizards engineer the same sort of unbalanced sweetheart trades designed to keep a marquee franchise prominent for the purposes of ratings?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 2:31 AM | Report abuse

I saw the Euro championship games and Childress needs to stay there. Ernie don't make another bad decision and go after this guy. Hire a big man's coach and keep what you got. As for Miller he's a joke. I can't believe a NBA player would make a comment if on a better team he would shoot more. He played like the ball was a hot potato and to think he might get 5mil a yr. Wiz have small forwards. Singleton, Thorton and the new kid from Clemson can fill that hole. Yi can do it if you want matchup issues. Ernie you have screwed up 2 draft's please leave things alone. The free agent market is fools gold short of Wade and LeBron. The Wiz will be better than most are predicting on this blog inspite of Ernie and Flip.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 2, 2010 3:20 AM | Report abuse

Rumor but big
LJ is not going any where, he is working with managment to push the suns for sign and trade of AS.I think gard west and AJ are the targets for the trade.CP is also the future targate to be with LJ.His favariate coache is expected to assis a mid season trade with the hornet who are expected to strugle in the coming season.
What a big crush for chicago and NY,they might not get any body.
Boozer has a wide open eye to play in Miami if not the chance is to stay with Jazz.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 2, 2010 7:02 AM | Report abuse

Glawrence, I really hope you are just joking online. We need people that will be responsible for victories! Not guys that if only they developed A,B or C aspects of their game. Outlaw and Thornton will be teases for the forseeable future.

Posted by: AscotAmos | July 2, 2010 1:30 AM | Report abuse

LMAO,LMAO. Cover your eyes with that ascot Amos.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 7:49 AM | Report abuse

"Mike Miller, Josh Howard, Josh Childress, Travis Outlaw, Rasual Butler and Ryan Gomes"

Just glancing at the list, those are all guys who need to be contributors on a strong club rather than mainstays on a weak one.


Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, but how do the Wizards engineer the same sort of unbalanced sweetheart trades designed to keep a marquee franchise prominent for the purposes of ratings?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 2:31 AM | Report abuse

First, the owner has to be commited to winning...

Second, they need a great GM not a retread like Ernie...

Ernie gets CB for Brown while the Lakers get Gasol for Brown?

It all starts at the top and I hope Ted realizes after the Wizards suck this year he needs to make changes to the organization if he wants different results.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 2, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Washington gave Gilbert a max contract..and we saw how that worked out. We saw how they gave a ton of money to Juan Howard...and we saw how that worked out. A team ,first, needs a solid base..good defense, and scoring. then..possibly adding that one guy
that might help win a championship would make some sense.
A team can spend a fortune, and put a couple of super stars together on one team. That doesn`t mean they can play effectively
together. A team is better served to scout out young players..that may blossom inter a star in a few years....which costs the team a lot less in terms of risk/reward.

Posted by: blazerguy234 | July 2, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Guarenteed contracts are the bane of professional sports.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 8:49 AM | Report abuse

ARE THE WIZARDS NOT TRYING TO WIN..FIRST OF ALL BASKETBALL IS NOT LIKE FOOTBALL WHERE YOU NEED TO BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT..THERE IS ONLY 5 ON THE COURT AT ONE TIME. FREE AGENT SIGNINGS CAN IMPACT YOUR TEAM IN ONE OFFSEASON..LOOK AT WHAT HAPPEND WHEN THE CELTICS PICKED UP KG AND ALLEN..I THINK ITS STUPID THAT WIZ ARE DOING NOTHING IN THE MOST HISTORICAL FREE AGENCY PERIOD EVER. THE GUY WE JUST PICKED UP FROM THE NETS IS POWDER SOFT-IM SORRY..THEY NEED TO GET TOUGH. EVEN IF THEY DONT WANNA SPEND ALOT OF MONEY U CAN STILL GET A GUY LIKE MATT BARNES FROM MAGIC WHOS TOUGH AS HELL- NOT VINCE CARTER! NEVER BEEN A BIG ERNIE G. FAN..SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED FOR LETTING TOUGH JUICE GO

Posted by: pgcubano | July 2, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

"A team is better served to scout out young players..that may blossom inter a star in a few years....which costs the team a lot less in terms of risk/reward.Posted by: blazerguy234"

You'd think young teams would be less injury-prone, but look at Portland, for instance. All that prime talent and they arrive at Phoenix series clearly unprepared, both health-wise and as a unit. Won 50 games and yet were somehow no closer to a title. And wound up in an replacing coach and GM in the most embarrassing way possible.

A much better fate than Washington's, but still...

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz will be better than most are predicting on this blog inspite of Ernie and Flip.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 2, 2010 3:20 AM

Seriously though, why not? Team is adding the #1 overall pick who is a potential franchise player. 3 time all-star Gil will be back and fully healthy. Blatche had a breakout season last year, can be expected to at the very least be a solid contributor. Team is adding 2 more 1st round picks. Team signed a guard to a $9mill/per contract. And it only takes .500 to be the 8th seed in the East.

Given all that, why should expectations be lottery bound? I'm not sure the fanbase should let the team off so easy.

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Ernie gets CB for Brown while the Lakers get Gasol for Brown?

It all starts at the top and I hope Ted realizes after the Wizards suck this year he needs to make changes to the organization if he wants different results.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 2, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Yeah it was Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol. Kwame's expiring contract, Marc Gasol and the 2 first round picks they got weren't even part of the trade.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

"Mike Miller can help the Knicks win games?... The Stinkabockers have no big man and no point guard, the two most vital aspects for a perimeter shooter.Posted by: elfreako"

Wait a minute -- I thought the criticism of Miller is that he DOESN'T shoot from the perimeter, at least not to the extent the fanz want.

He's actually a pretty good candidate for the D'Antoni system. Wouldn't be required to play a lot of close man defense, and the scheme does take advantage of his passing and rebounding skills. He'd get his share of mismatches and when it came to outside shots, he'd usually be open.

So his stats might actually improve. But the underlying problem -- the Knicks are still a weak club -- remains to be corrected.

Mike needs to play on a more talented club.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

oh and lest I forget, we have Mr.50win coaching the team. Should .500 really be a pipe dream??

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"I like the fact the Wizards have their eyes on the big prize and haven't fallen for the trap of spending money on high priced low production players.

It is a gaurantee Ernie/Ted's philosophy will produce a championship team long before the dreadfully run Skins will.

Posted by: dagr8dwalo | July 1, 2010 9:02 PM

No guarantees in pro sports, but I agree that the Wizards not falling into the trap of spending money just to give the impression they're doing something is the way to go now. Some of the deals that have been given out smack of teams panicking at the thought of not having anywhere to sit when the music stops.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"Yeah it was Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol. Kwame's expiring contract, Marc Gasol and the 2 first round picks they got weren't even part of the trade.Posted by: SDMDTSU"

A trade which appeared incredibly unbalanced when it was made, but which has strengthened Memphis over subsequent seasons. Rudy Gay signed quickly because he thinks they're close (also, they got to offer the most $$).

If they'd held on to Pau, where would they be now? Maybe not as far along.

So the Lakers got what they wanted, and the NBA got what they wanted for the Lakers, and Memphis fans had to wait (the thing all fans claim they're willing to do, but in fact never are).

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Pau is not a franchise player, memphis knew and so did he, was time to move on and it was a win-win for both clubs and him.

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

"i agree wholeheartedly. if healthy, howard is tough. gil, after being thoroughly chastened will be tough to deal with on the court.

Posted by: dcjazzman | July 1, 2010 10:35 PM

That's a huge if, though. He'3 30 years old, coming off a major knee injury, and that's on top of a career-long history of not being able to stay healthy. No question the guy's talented, but it's hard to see him having a role on a team like the one the Wiz are putting together.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

"I like the fact the Wizards have their eyes on the big prize and haven't fallen for the trap of spending money on high priced low production players.

It is a gaurantee Ernie/Ted's philosophy will produce a championship team long before the dreadfully run Skins will.

Posted by: dagr8dwalo | July 1, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse "

Don't buy into the marketing spin on why Les BouleS are being passive.

What makes you think they have "eyes on the big prize?"

They never went after big time free agents to begin with.

BTW, Teddy's "slow and steady" approach hasn't won the Caps any trophies and despite how good Ovenchkin is, there's no guarantee he will ever win the Caps any trophies. Case in point this past season.

There are great individual players, and then there are players who just win even though they don't get the star treatment like others (eg. Sidney Crosby, Tim Duncan, etc.)

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 2, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Please don't imply that great individual players don't win just for arguments sake. Show some pride. You are implying that Michael Jordan was not a great individual player because he got star treatment and he won.

The Caps got stoned by a white-hot goalie. That happens in hockey. Does that mean they will never win one? No. I do however think that Ovechkin can be taken away in NHL playoffs though as the style of play changes.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Hi folks,

Long time, no comment. I like what the Wiz are doing very much this offseason. It's the anti-Danny Snyder plan; let other teams fight to overpay guys like Gay and Joe Johnson. With teams re-signing their own guys (Pierce now joins that club), we'll see a run on overpaying second-tier guys, then third-tier guys.

Ted and Ernie are sitting it out now. I'll bet you a steak dinner that they know that some of the big losers here (Knicks, Nets, maybe Bulls and Heat) that don't get Bron/Wade/Bosh will be clamoring to give up the farm (draft picks, players with friendly contracts) to pry Arenas away from the Wiz. Since I'm sure the Wiz want to dump Gil, we'll be in the catbird seat, able to play one team against another).

Slow and steady as she goes, boys. This ship is getting turned around.

Posted by: keithward64 | July 2, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Caps had a disappointing run in the playoffs, thats for sure. However, the previous year, they took the stanley cup champions to 7 games in the eastern semis. At this point, all we can ask is a wide window of opportunity for the caps. For the wizards, we have no sort of window at all. If he can make the perennial contenders, I consider Teddy a huge success.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 2, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

"Please don't imply that great individual players don't win just for arguments sake. Show some pride. You are implying that Michael Jordan was not a great individual player because he got star treatment and he won.

The Caps got stoned by a white-hot goalie. That happens in hockey. Does that mean they will never win one? No. I do however think that Ovechkin can be taken away in NHL playoffs though as the style of play changes.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse "

Yeah, and that goes against the Les BouleS philosophy about paying money for a big time free agent.

Who cares about the "white hot goalie" theory. The point is that the Caps didn't live up to expectations last season and they also didn't win the previous season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 2, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I think people like complaining for the sake of complaining.

It was "I can't wait until Ted takes over."
He's been here a month and it's already comparing him to Donald Sterling?!?!

Last year it was "Blow the team up and rebuild." Now they're doing it and it's "Why aren't they going after big free agents?"

Looking at the contracts these below average players are getting (i.e. Darko, Gooden, Amir Johnson) who exactly do you expect the Wizards to break the bank for?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe a NBA player would make a comment if on a better team he would shoot more.
Posted by: rnbrown4

I don't think Miller ever said that. Mike Lee said that.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I imagine from Leonsis' perspective the best thing would be for fans to go into the season with relatively low expectations and then for the team to exceed them. Given the reality of a roster that was essentially 'blown up' last year, and will depend heavily on a rookie PG, it's unlikely any other strategy will work.

If you convince yourself this club should somehow win 40 games or contend for a playoff spot, you're pretty much setting yourself up for disappointment. The odds are against you. Leonsis certainly knows that. He went through it before with the Caps.

Of course, if a fan or media type has an axe to grind against management, he's going to do his best to raise those same expectations. Then when the club fails to surpass them, he gets to be right. It's like being the opposition in congress -- your future depends on convincing the voters that the other guy is a really big disappointment.

I'm no good at predicting the future, but I'll make this one prediction: we're going to see a lot of this sort of thing on Wizards Insider.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

First, the owner has to be commited to winning...

Second, they need a great GM not a retread like Ernie...

Ernie gets CB for Brown while the Lakers get Gasol for Brown?

It all starts at the top and I hope Ted realizes after the Wizards suck this year he needs to make changes to the organization if he wants different results.

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Well, apparently you don't think Ted is committed to winning, so if it starts at the top, shouldn't we be shopping for another owner?

And no, The Lakers got Gasol for Brown, M. Gasol, Critter, Aaron McKie, and 2 first rounders, plus cap space. Kind of a difference there. Another way to look at it is that the Lakers abused Memphis in a trade (no shocker there), while the inept Wizards abused the genius Lakers in a trade.

Not saying EG should be the GM going forward, but it takes a special set of blinders not to see a difference already in how the organization is operating, and an especially bitter mentality to be down on a new majority owner after a month.

I guess we should have been chasing some of those free agents to make us better. LeBron (not going to come here), Wade (not going to come here), or overpay the other guys who are not max players to get them to come here (Rudy Gay was gonna put us over the top?) and then spend the next 5 years complaining that they are overpaid. You know, whatever it takes to keep you unhappy.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

DC-Man

That same white-hot goalie took out Crosby and Pittsburgh too. It happens.

I am not going to say that the Caps as currently constructed won't win a cup, you can say it.

I am not going to say they will win it either, because they could. You know it and I know it.

But you keep on being fake about everything.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"Looking at the contracts these below average players are getting (i.e. Darko, Gooden, Amir Johnson) who exactly do you expect the Wizards to break the bank for?
Posted by: SDMDTSU"

You're right, it does feel a little like that strange era a while back when teams were signing mediocre players for megabux and everybody was wondering if they'd completely lost their minds. Maybe the fans in Chicago and NJ will be wondering the same thing when the dust settles.

Mania is not a good thing. In business, at least.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"I imagine from Leonsis' perspective the best thing would be for fans to go into the season with relatively low expectations and then for the team to exceed them. Given the reality of a roster that was essentially 'blown up' last year, and will depend heavily on a rookie PG, it's unlikely any other strategy will work.

If you convince yourself this club should somehow win 40 games or contend for a playoff spot, you're pretty much setting yourself up for disappointment. The odds are against you. Leonsis certainly knows that. He went through it before with the Caps."

Actually, what happened with the Caps is rather instructive. A lot of the disappointment over their early exits the last two seasons is a byproduct of expectations that were probably too high to begin with. The Caps are really still a rebuilding team, not far removed from going multiple consecutive years not even making the playoffs. But the wave of hype that Ovechkin rode in on got everybody all riled up to the point that people were expecting them to cruise to the Cup in their 2nd or 3rd year as a legit playoff team.

Something for everyone ready to anoint John Wall the savior might keep in mind.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Here Sir Charles on free agents:

"CB: Well, here's what I think is going to happen, Dan. Let's cut out all the bull about these players. There are two franchise players: LeBron James and Dwayne Wade. That's it. Let's stop there. All those other guys, they're good players who are trying to piggy-back. What's going to happen is that a bunch of those guys are going to get overpaid. Because New York, New Jersey, Chicago, when those teams don't get LeBron – or even if they do get LeBron – they're going to have to overpay for somebody else anyway. Somebody is going to get overpaid. LeBron is going to get paid, and Dwayne is going to get paid. But those people in New York, they're not going to let the Knicks stink for another year."

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Who cares about the "white hot goalie" theory. The point is that the Caps didn't live up to expectations last season and they also didn't win the previous season.

Posted by: DC_MAN88

------

And the Caps probably won't win it all until they shore up their defense. That has nothing to do with the Wizards (except, I hope, that they are shoring up their defense).

Posted by: EestiLaps | July 2, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Channing Frye gets 5 for $30M, Amir Johnson gets 5 for $34M?

I agree Ted, just say no. Teams are going to have some serious buyer's remorse come next season.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I think part of the thinking behind teams overspending to lock up their own FAs early is that they want to forestall the possibility that whatever team lands James/Wade/Bosh starts poaching their role players at a discount price by dangling the chance to ride their coattails to a title or two.

Doesn't make the deals any less ridiculous, mind you, but at least there's a method to the insanity.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

The thing about it, with a new CBA coming out soon, the wizards will be in a decent position all the way around.

They won't have overpaid role players, but will have Yi, Nick, McGee, and the rookies.

They could have 1 near star level talent in Arenas, if he is retained and returns to a level higher than when he left last year.

Then, like these other teams who are on there knees for LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, etc., and want at least 2 stars, and the stars realize they need stars too, the wizards could be looking at 2 near star level talents in a Wall/Arenas backcourt.

They could have 2 stars, reasonably salaried role players who will look good for there salaries no matter what the CBA is, and some cap room.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Actually, what happened with the Caps is rather instructive. A lot of the disappointment over their early exits the last two seasons is a byproduct of expectations that were probably too high to begin with. The Caps are really still a rebuilding team, not far removed from going multiple consecutive years not even making the playoffs. But the wave of hype that Ovechkin rode in on got everybody all riled up to the point that people were expecting them to cruise to the Cup in their 2nd or 3rd year as a legit playoff team.

Something for everyone ready to anoint John Wall the savior might keep in mind.

Posted by: kalo_rama

I'll buy that for the most part, but this season the Caps' disappointment has more to do with having the best overall record and getting taken out by the #8 seed in the first round.

But it is generally true that it takes time to build contenders and time for those contenders to learn to win. The Pistons had to get past the Celtics, the Bulls had to get past the Pistons. Even the Kobe / Gasol Lakers had to get beaten by the Celts before they were able to break through. Even the team that eventually wins the FA bonanza this season is going to have difficulty.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

and Blatche too

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

"If you convince yourself this club should somehow win 40 games or contend for a playoff spot, you're pretty much setting yourself up for disappointment."

But why? A 12 game improvement from last year's complete debacle makes for a .500 record. Can you explain why expecting that sort of improvement is somehow unreasonable? I think building in pre-set excuses for a 25win season is the worst thing fans and management can do for the organization. You just never set the bar that low, not with the amount of talent being added and a proven coach you profess to believe in.

I mean, the team has gotten better right? imo:

Miller/Foye/Boykins= deadweight shed

And they've been replaced with Arenas and 3 1st round picks, not to mention Hinrich. You cant say on one hand Kirk is a good pickup but then on the other not to expect much from him.

I'm not saying this team must get into the postseason or be a disappointment, I'm saying they should be sniffing around .500 towards the end of the season. If that's too much to ask....do we wait until 2011 to expect a .500 team? 2012 for the 8th seed? 2014 for a significant FA signing?

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"I'll buy that for the most part, but this season the Caps' disappointment has more to do with having the best overall record and getting taken out by the #8 seed in the first round."

That's certainly part of it, but the chatter going into the playoffs also made it seem like anything short of a title would make the entire season an utter failure. The Caps haven't really reached that point in their development where those kinds of expectations are justified.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

ts35

Say Miami retains Wade and signs a max-player or two. While Chicago gets LeBron. Orlando makes a move and overpays somebody. You still got Boston. Atlanta raped itself with Joe Johnsons new contract.

Only 1 of those teams will represent the East in the Finals. The rest will be losers. All could be losers if the 1 team from the east loses to, say the Lakers.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"But you keep on being fake about everything.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse "

Actually, what's fake is anything that comes out of EG's mouth.

WRT Ovenchkin, he's been a consistent loser every time he goes against Crosby.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 2, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Crosby besting Ovechkin(when it counts) to date, can't even be debated and we agree on that. Will it continue....?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I think the Wizards could've finished just below .500 last season without the suspension and trades...so I don't see why this years team can't be decent.

Basically saying I'm not expecting them to be the Nets this season.

Did you guys see we're picking up Lester Hudson? May not mean much to you guys...but I've seen him play. Very talented...could be one of those guys that just needs a shot.

Don't know if it will be here...but I'm pulling for him.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

A .500 record would be a helluva an accomplishment, one I can't see this team achieving. This is a team full of kids and question marks, basically. A bunch of rookies, a vet role player in Hinrich, a talented, unpredictable reclamation project in Arenas, and a bunch of still young guys teetering on the the tipping point who could fall either way. Barring any major acquisitions, this team's makeup actually reminds me quite a bit of the Sonics/Thunder in Durant and Green's first couple of seasons.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

My thought is this:

Don't sign any FA that isn't on our summer league team. And then only sign one year contracts.

Keep Arenas on board this season.

Use this season to let Wall, McGee, Yi, Young and the other rookies/young guys "season" and hopefully progress. McGee can get serious court time, Yi can play spot play at three positions, Seraphin can come get acclimated to the American game and Wall gets comfortable going up against the best in world 3 nights a week and we see how Arenas fits (or doesn't).

Get some hungry guys out there playing for PT and a future in the NBA.

Meanwhile we get some good experience for a young team and let Blatche not feel like he has to hurry his recovery.

Maybe it all clicks and we sneak into the playoffs. More likely we look at another lottery pick next year to add to the collection.

I kind of liked the way we rotated the 10 day guys in the last third of the season. We found a gem (not a diamond, but a gem no less) in Livingston that way.

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

where did you see that about Hudson? I think he is already playing for the Wizards the Dakota Wizards in D league

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

ts35

Say Miami retains Wade and signs a max-player or two. While Chicago gets LeBron. Orlando makes a move and overpays somebody. You still got Boston. Atlanta raped itself with Joe Johnsons new contract.

Only 1 of those teams will represent the East in the Finals. The rest will be losers. All could be losers if the 1 team from the east loses to, say the Lakers.

Posted by: G-Man11

Unless Wade and LeBron go to the same place, all that's really going on is shuffling the deck chairs. LeBron goes to Chicago, Chicago is now a favorite in the East. Cleveland isn't anymore. But it's not like a LeBron Chicago team is unbeatable, even if they get another piece like Bosh.

The power shifts, but unless Wade and LeBron are on the same team, I don't think there is any super team created from all of this hype.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Oh yes... and Nick gets one laast shot at playing the man's game. either he plays it or he gets released. I htink this is his last season on contract, but could be wrong

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

"Maybe Ted will send us an email and let us know when he is closer to building a championship team, that way we'll know when we should start buying season tickets?"

In Ted's last email to me he hit me up for season tickets. I don't think he realizes how the culture of team has been for so long.

John Wall is a good start but he can't do everything. Basketball is NOTHING like hockey in terms of building a team, which worries me somewhat.

I don't think you can name one team in the NBA that hasn't brought in key free agents and competed for a title.

The Spurs maybe?

At some point he's going to realize this, but I think by then EG will have probably screwed up the roster (once again) so much that Ted is going to find out too late.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 2, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Who is going to sign Shaq? And how big will his contract be?

He been done for at least 3 years and I don't see him getting more than 10 million a season.

Posted by: dcinmd1 | July 2, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"But the wave of hype that Ovechkin rode in on got everybody all riled up to the point that people were expecting them to cruise to the Cup in their 2nd or 3rd year as a legit playoff team."

Hey look, the Caps choked and boy did the fans let them know they did. I mean the ones with the "season tickets."

The fans were pretty upset over there.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 2, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I don't think any of the WIZARDS FA's will return. I had hopes for JS, but YI pretty much cuts him out. FA CENTER, WING, GUARD. Let's go WIZ.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Ray

Come on now, what is a key free agent? You named 1 team in the spurs who have not brought in a KEY free agent. What about the Lakers and Celtics?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think you can name one team in the NBA that hasn't brought in key free agents and competed for a title.

The Spurs maybe?

At some point he's going to realize this, but I think by then EG will have probably screwed up the roster (once again) so much that Ted is going to find out too late."

I'm pretty sure Leonsis already realizes this. His embargo on FA spending isn't permanent. He's committed to building a foundation through the draft with young talent. Once he has a clear picture of the results of that effort he'll have a useful idea of what pieces he needs to plug in around them. This is just step one of the plan.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Y'all should realize that Leonsis is gambling on Wall being a SUPERSTAR. I already know he ain't LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, or what Shaq used to be. Is he Wade level? Maybe. But that is a gamble.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

For that matter, is John Wall Agent0 level?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Funny that you put Wade under LeBron's level...but LeBron still hasn't won anything.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

except a coupla MVPs. I luv how championships get attributed to one guy, and every guy at the same time . Which is it, does the best team win or the best player? I look at winning a 'chip as the ultimate measure of team achievement. One man cannot beat any team at any team sport.Wade getting 1 chip with Shaq in his last "Real Shaq" season does not make him a better player than LBJ. There's a reason why the argument about best player in the game is always about Mamba and THA KANG. Bron isn't on Wade's level of having championships, but i don't think there is a lot of discussion about who the better basketball player is.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Funny that you put Wade under LeBron's level...but LeBron still hasn't won anything.

Posted by: SDMDTSU

So using that rationale, Wade isn't on Derek Fisher's level.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

In Ted's last email to me he hit me up for season tickets. I don't think he realizes how the culture of team has been for so long.

John Wall is a good start but he can't do everything. Basketball is NOTHING like hockey in terms of building a team, which worries me somewhat.

I don't think you can name one team in the NBA that hasn't brought in key free agents and competed for a title.

The Spurs maybe?

At some point he's going to realize this, but I think by then EG will have probably screwed up the roster (once again) so much that Ted is going to find out too late.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz

The Celts are predominantly drafts (Perkins, Rondo, Pierce, Big Baby) and trades (Garnett and Allen)

The Lakers are predominantly trades (Kobe -draft day, Odom, Gasol) and draft (Bynum).

The earlier Lakers 3-peat team was predominantly FAs, in particular, obviously, Shaq. But they also had important drafted players in Kobe and Fisher.

The Spurs are predominantly draft (Robinson, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili)

The Pistons were predominantly trades (Wallace, Wallace, Hamilton) and draft (Prince)

The back to back Rockets champions were as much draft (Olajuwon, Cassell, Horry) and trade (Elie, The Jet, Thorpe, Drexler)

The Bulls were predominantly draft (Jordan, Grant, Pippen - draft day, Armstrong) and trades (Cartwright, Rodman)


At some point you have to sign FAs, but it depends on *when* you bring the FA's in. All of those other teams, except the Shaq Lakers built through drafts and trades first, then added an important FA when they got close. Are the Wizards close?

And has Ted said he would never sign a big-time FA? He just said there's no point in doing it now.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

lilhollywood10

People want to throw there 2 cents in to discredit someone else. It don't matter if they make themselves look stupid.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

except a coupla MVPs. I luv how championships get attributed to one guy, and every guy at the same time . Which is it, does the best team win or the best player? I look at winning a 'chip as the ultimate measure of team achievement. One man cannot beat any team at any team sport.Wade getting 1 chip with Shaq in his last "Real Shaq" season does not make him a better player than LBJ. There's a reason why the argument about best player in the game is always about Mamba and THA KANG. Bron isn't on Wade's level of having championships, but i don't think there is a lot of discussion about who the better basketball player is.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Yeah yeah...I hear all that but when you're the best player on the best team (team with the best record) a MVP doesn't matter. Going back to that season with Miami...when it mattered...Wade elevated his game and carried the team. LeBron hasn't shown that yet...when it matters. I don't doubt he will get a championship sooner or later. Wade has already led a team there.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

So using that rationale, Wade isn't on Derek Fisher's level.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I didn't know Derek Fisher was ever a lead player on a team. The logical thing to to say would be that Wade isn't on Kobe's level. And I don't care about discrediting you. I put my two cents in because it's my two cents.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

"I already know he ain't LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, or what Shaq used to be."

And how might you know that? Dude hasn't played a single minute in the NBA and people are already putting a limit on where he can end up.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

"Who is going to sign Shaq? And how big will his contract be?He been done for at least 3 years and I don't see him getting more than 10 million a season.Posted by: dcinmd1"

Word is, a sign and trade with Dallas for Haywood.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

SMDTSU

What has Wade done since Shaq left? That Shaq was better than anybody LeBron ever played with. All of them are recognizing that you need more than 1 star. Duncan had his compliment. Kobe had Shaq and now Gasol. The Celtics had Pierce, Garnett, and Allen. Wade had Shaq, a younger version than what LeBron had.

So what has Wade elevated his team to since Shaq left that was better than LeBron did? LeBron and his bums went to the finals and loss to the Spurs. What has Wade done with his bums after Shaq left?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"I already know he ain't LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, or what Shaq used to be."

And how might you know that? Dude hasn't played a single minute in the NBA and people are already putting a limit on where he can end up.

Posted by: psps23

Ok, let me correct myself. I DON'T THINK WALL IS LEBRON, JORDAN, KOBE OR WHAT SHAQ USED TO BE. OR DUNCAN either for that matter. Is that better. I hope he achieves that level, but my point was Leonsis gamble.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"But why? A 12 game improvement from last year's complete debacle makes for a .500 record. Can you explain why expecting that sort of improvement is somehow unreasonable? I think building in pre-set excuses for a 25win season is the worst thing fans and management can do for the organization. You just never set the bar that low, not with the amount of talent being added and a proven coach you profess to believe in.I mean, the team has gotten better right? imo: Miller/Foye/Boykins= deadweight shed And they've been replaced with Arenas and 3 1st round picks, not to mention Hinrich. You cant say on one hand Kirk is a good pickup but then on the other not to expect much from him."

See, this is what I mean by unrealistic expectations, based on personal opinions rather than any sort of objective reality. Players who are leaving, like Miller, Foye, and Boykins, are airily dismissed as 'dead weight' without any real examination of their impact. Rookies are given undue credit for a positive effect on the won-loss record when they've yet to see the court (or even training camp). A decent player picked up through another team's salary dump is given credited with more positive results than he's likely to produce.

Look at it this way: last year the Wiz won 26 games. Twelve additional wins would be a 46.2% improvement. That doesn't happen all that often, except in the imagination.

Let's hope the Wiz make it. But to expect that?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

...Wade elevated his game and carried the team. LeBron hasn't shown that yet...when it matters. I don't doubt he will get a championship sooner or later. Wade has already led a team there.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

a bit easier to elevate your game when all you have to do is worry about your offense. He carried the team offensively, with ZO and Shaq protecting the rim, cleaning the boards and watching Wade put'em up.

btw LBJ bests Wade in about every statistical category when it comes to the playoffs, Wade's teams may do better because he has a better team around him. Shaq 5 yrs ago would KILL the Shaq that draggin his ass with THA KANG

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

"But why? A 12 game improvement from last year's complete debacle makes for a .500 record

wouldn't a 12 gm improvement from last year put us a 38 wins and 3 games under .500, i'm just sayin.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Wade is better than LJ for two reasons
1/No matter how,he won shampionship
2/He stick with his team.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 2, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Wade is better than LJ for two reasons
1/No matter how,he won shampionship
2/He stick with his team.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 2, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse
how many "shampionships" will LBJ have to win to be better than Wade.

which team did Lebron not stick with?????????????

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

a bit easier to elevate your game when all you have to do is worry about your offense. He carried the team offensively, with ZO and Shaq protecting the rim, cleaning the boards and watching Wade put'em up.

It's amazing how terrible LeBron's team is when they lose. Best record in the league. The championship Miami team didn't have a lot of talent. It was Shaq, Zo was pretty much done...and Wade.

LeBron has WAY more offense...so what's the problem? Better player with more offense and one of the top defenses in the league...so why couldn't he get it done? Since Wade can carry an offense all by himself and all?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

For that matter, which team has Wade stuck with? He hasn't signed a contract with the Heat yet that I've heard of.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Wade is better than LJ for two reasons
1/No matter how,he won shampionship
2/He stick with his team.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 2, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse


BTW
Lebron has Wade statistically, and has Won the back to back NBA MVP award. Just because Wade got Shaq one year and won in the finals against a S-O-F-T dallas team doesn't mean that he's better.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

In Kevin Durant's first season, the team's record improved from 20 to 23 wins. In Derrick Rose's first season, the team went from 33 to 41 wins. in Tyreke Evans' first season, the club improved from 17 to 25 wins.

Star centers seem to have a little more direct impact on the won-loss record.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

LeBron has WAY more offense...so what's the problem? Better player with more offense and one of the top defenses in the league...so why couldn't he get it done? Since Wade can carry an offense all by himself and all?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse


you are correct that LBJ has more offense than Wade. But i'd take Wades 05 06 Heat over Bron's 09-10 Cavs anyday. Mo Williams is a fraud and a tweener, D. West.....no comment/none necessary, MeTawn.....LMAO, Varejo.....eh,Hickson........eh,jamario moon......eh should i list the entire roster of bargain basement losers surrounding Bron?Danny Green,Boobie Gibson,Telfair,Anthony parker. You can't be serious.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

"a bit easier to elevate your game when all you have to do is worry about your offense.

Posted by: lilhollywood10"

It's also a bit easier to 'have' somebody statistically when you handle the ball for 90% of the possessions, as opposed to sharing the ball because you have another legitimate option to go to.

You know else Lebron has statistically? Kobe Bryant. Kobe also has 5 titles and 7 finals appearances. I dare you to say Lebron is better than Kobe.

On the one hand, people like to discount Wade's title because he had Shaq, and on the other hand, people like to pimp Lebron because his statistics are better on a per game average mostly due to the fact that he hasn't had a player of (younger) Shaq's caliber to pair with.

Well let's see what happens to Lebron's stats should he get paired with a Derrick Rose and/or Chris Bosh and/or whatever other weapons he may find himself surrounded with on his new team.

My guess is they dip noticeably. And if he still doesn't win the title with his new squad, I wonder what people will say about him them?

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

BTW
Lebron has Wade statistically, and has Won the back to back NBA MVP award. Just because Wade got Shaq one year and won in the finals against a S-O-F-T dallas team doesn't mean that he's better.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Nash has back-to-back MVPs, is he better than Wade?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just like muddying the water.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

the numbers would say LBJ has Kobe too. i like LBj over Kobe but, we can agree to disagree. I know the NBA MVP award doesn't matter to yall as much as saddling up next to another superstar en route to a 'chip but i kinda value the MVP award. When Kobe won it, eventhough they didn't win the 'chip that year, he was the best player. LBJ has the MVP 2 yrs and running. 5 titles and 7 finals appearances are an awesome feat, but you know who else has those exact same numbers......Derek Fisher. Robert Horry went on to win championships after he left Dream, Kobe and Shaq so what are you saying. Kobe is great, but i think skillswise LBJ has passed him, the statistics bear this point also.
The only thing Kobe is able to do that LBJ can't do is be on the Lakers. BTW LBJ had a triple dip in his last game this season, but got NO support from his teamates, conversely The Greatest Player Ever MR. Kobe Bryant goes 6-24 in a n elimination game and has to be bailed out by Ron Artest, just the way he planned it.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Nash has back-to-back MVPs, is he better than Wade?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just like muddying the water.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

at some things more than others, Wade is more exciting and explosive. he throws it down like none other.

Nash is a better passer,shooter, has deceptive quickness that allows him to get into the lane and finish with regulartiy below the rim.


Wade scores more than Nash but Nash dishes more and turns it over less than Wade.

I'd take Wade over Nash now, but I dunno about the years Nash went back to back. Pure point guards are hard to come by and Nash is and has been one of the nicest.

BTW
Nash hasn't played less than 75 games since 2001, whereas Wade has only played 4 seasons of 75 games or better or about half his career.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

you are correct that LBJ has more offense than Wade. But i'd take Wades 05 06 Heat over Bron's 09-10 Cavs anyday. Mo Williams is a fraud and a tweener, D. West.....no comment/none necessary, MeTawn.....LMAO, Varejo.....eh,Hickson........eh,jamario moon......eh should i list the entire roster of bargain basement losers surrounding Bron?Danny Green,Boobie Gibson,Telfair,Anthony parker. You can't be serious.

But they were good enough to have the best record in the league? They weren't bums then. Mo wasn't a bum when he was a all-star though right? If they're bums...they're bums. It can't be...they're great in the regular season....then they're bums.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2006.html

That Miami team didn't have much either.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Since 05/06, how many times have Wade made it out of the first round of the weak East?

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I see. So of the list of back-to-back MVP recipients, which one is the best player?

Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem (only one to win back-to-back with a name change in between)
Moses Malone
Bird
Magic
MJ
Duncan
Nash
James

And what does it say that Robertson, Shaq, Hakeem and Kobe have only one won?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"Kobe is great, but i think skillswise LBJ has passed him, the statistics bear this point also."

I can agree that the statistics suggest this point.

But I couldn't disagree more with the argument that LBJ has passed Kobe.

Watching the playoffs, LBJ is miles away from reaching Kobe in the skill department. Sure he loads up the stat sheet better than anyone in the game, but in terms of on-court ability, Kobe has LBJ by a country-mile and then some. Lebron cannot hit the shots Kobe can, under the pressure Kobe can, with defensive hands in his face the way Kobe can. Lebron does not have the basketball IQ that Kobe does in his off-the-ball movement. Lebron cannot post-up a smaller or weaker defender the way Kobe can. Lebron does not have the shooting range Kobe does. Lebron is not as good of an on-the-ball defender as Kobe. And Lebron certainly does not command his team from a leadership standpoint the way Kobe does (and even this was evident during the Olympics when the two played together).

In fact, the only thing Lebron has over Kobe is athletic ability, with which Lebron is unmatched. In every other aspect of the game, I'll take Kobe every day of the week.

We can agree to disagree on this argument. The stats say Lebron has surpassed Kobe on the court, but the film doesn't lie; Lebron isn't even close to Kobe in terms of skill level.

In fact, I'll venture a prediction and say that once Lebron's hops start to go in the manner that Kobe's have in the last few years, Lebron is more likely to follow in the footsteps of Vince Carter's career path than Kobe Bryant's. One lived and died by his athletic ability, the other reinvented his game to remain the best in the league. Which will Lebron follow?

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

But they were good enough to have the best record in the league? They weren't bums then. Mo wasn't a bum when he was a all-star though right? If they're bums...they're bums. It can't be...they're great in the regular season....then they're bums.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2006.html

That Miami team didn't have much either.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 2, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Lebron got the regular season MVP. i take that as meaning that he was the most valuable player in the league. if he's the mvp of the whole league then he must be pretty valuable to his own team,huh. maybe even valuable enough to be the difference between them winning a game and losing one. Name one player off the cavs (except Tha Kang of course)that you would take to build a championship team. You could choose either Shaq or Wade off that Miami 'chip team

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think they were comparing LeBron to Kobe. I thought they were comparing LeBron to Wade.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Shaq was avgin 20 pts back then on 30+ mins (offense and defensive prescence) vs 12 pts ans 23 mins nowadays (limited offense or defensive prescence)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Watching the playoffs, LBJ is miles away from reaching Kobe in the skill department. Sure he loads up the stat sheet better than anyone in the game, but in terms of on-court ability, Kobe has LBJ by a country-mile and then some. Lebron cannot hit the shots Kobe can, under the pressure Kobe can, with defensive hands in his face the way Kobe can. Lebron does not have the basketball IQ that Kobe does in his off-the-ball movement. Lebron cannot post-up a smaller or weaker defender the way Kobe can. Lebron does not have the shooting range Kobe does. Lebron is not as good of an on-the-ball defender as Kobe. And Lebron certainly does not command his team from a leadership standpoint the way Kobe does (and even this was evident during the Olympics

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I have no argument in terms of Kobe's offensive ability. He is one of the best shot makres in the game. However let's not say that just b/c Kobe can do it Bron can't. I've seen Bron shoot it well from inside and outside the arc. LBJ is the best finisher around the rim in the game (left and right hand, finess and power). it's absolutely absurd to think that LBJ cannot post smaller guards. perhaps he doesn't do this as often, b/c he is the defacto point forward and is resposible for facilitating others in the offense and therfore doesn't want to turn his back to the rest of the court.
Bron has one of the highest bball iqs in the game. The reason he doesn't work like Kobe off the ball is because he's usually on the ball. he doesn't play with a real point guard and often brings the ball up to start the offense.
The defense angle is laughable. Kobe the hacktician plays hard on d and for all his flailing arms and pulled up shorts still caught 60 from Gil and couldn't find a way to stop Ray Ray from getting open. Both he and LBJ are making the all nba defensive teams nowadays, i just never see Kobe blocking shots,jumping passing lanes for steals or guarding all positions b/w 1-4.

And since when was stuffing the stat sheet not an indication of skill. being able to hit all of these wonderful shots from all that range and all of that degree of difficulty gets Kobe exactly 1/10 of a point more per game than Tha Kang. All the while Tha Kang is avg 3 more rebs 2 more assts 2 more blk. He bests Kobe's fg% 50% to 45% and bests his 3pt % 40 to 37.
SO what are you saying you just like him more because statistical analysis of basketball games played this year says that LBJ plays the game better than Mamba.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I know it is off the current subject but Ernie has done a nice job so far this off season. I am not a big fan and wanted him gone but looking around at what Frye, Gooden,Warrick,and Amir Johnson have been able to get on the open market acquiring Hinrich and Yi was a genius move. Those salaries look a lot more palatable now.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 2, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Wade is the most overrated player in the league. Don't get bent out of shape, he is a darn good player, above average but not as good as Kobe or LBJ. Thats just my opinion.

I know, he has a championship. When there was just a few drops left to squeeze from having Shaq and unbalanced officiating. That year if you looked at Wade too hard he went to the line for two shots.

Since that season he has accomplished about as much as Antawn Jamison. They usually get their buts handed to them in the first round although Wade gets his points.

Posted by: millineumman | July 2, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think they were comparing LeBron to Kobe. I thought they were comparing LeBron to Wade.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

i was. he thought he had a point about Kobe, but Mamba's numbers don't add up either. The only category left is an acheivement that 12 players and X amt of coaches,front office personnel and training staff get credit for. tell me how Mbenga is better that Bron with the bling on his finger. how bout Bill Wennington being better than Barkley , or Vernon maxwell being better than Nique. Individuals can't win championships so i think we should stop measuring greatness by 'chips. people view jordan as the greatest ever...but Bill Russell has 11 rings to mike's 6.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

and Russ coached the team one year, he deserves 2 rings for that season

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Major cities across America have always had the "Win right now “mentality for their NFL and NBA franchises and honestly DC for some reason has always been the under performer of them all. I agree the term “tortoise” used by Leonsis isn’t the best verbiage to put out there in the same breath with your sales pitch for Wizard season tickets with a fan base that is salivating at a chance to get back to the playoffs and beyond. The Wizards collectively have a good nucleus of bench players; they just need to finish cultivating a good starting five. If I’m Ted Leonsis, which I’m not but if I was, I would let all these teams blow their respective bank accounts in pursuit of James, Wade, Bosh and company even some of the “Second Tier” guys because next year’s free agent class looks just as good with names such as Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Zach Randolph, Al Horford just to name a few becoming available in the summer of 2011. With the right trades and a few more money moves the Wizards starting five could look like this Wall at the 1, Agent Zero at the 2, Durant or Melo at the 3, Blatche at the 4 and Randolph or Harford at the five 5 I think a potential line-up like that is worth waiting for, the Wizards are only going to be battling for the 7th or 8th seed this up-coming season anyway.

Posted by: G-Moneyknowssomething | July 2, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

@lilhollywood10

I'm not arguing for LBJ or Kobe or Wade, but Championships is a fair comparison point because part of a player's greatness is his ability to deliver when it counts the most. Certainly no player does it alone, but stars are supposed to shine brightest when the heat is the most intense (or some other muddled analogy like that).

It's not the only measure, but it is a fair component.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"See, this is what I mean by unrealistic expectations, based on personal opinions rather than any sort of objective reality. Players who are leaving, like Miller, Foye, and Boykins, are airily dismissed as 'dead weight' without any real examination of their impact. Rookies are given undue credit for a positive effect on the won-loss record when they've yet to see the court (or even training camp). A decent player picked up through another team's salary dump is given credited with more positive results than he's likely to produce."

Well, this is what I mean about pre-ordained excuses to be a terrible team. Is it just my opinion that Wall, Hinrich, and Arenas are a staggering upgrade over Miller/Foye/Boykins? Because if they're not, we have a serious problem dont we?

Is it so ludicrous to expect/demand from AB that he play just as well or even better given now he has a legit backcourt?

Is it too much to ask that Seraphin and Booker represent a quantum leap over Oberto?

$5mill/yr coach should be expected to drag ass to 30 wins or something? Why?

I dont think any of what I said is unrealistic at all, and what I said was it's not too much to expect them to be sniffing .500 around season's end. IMO, being satisfied with a 25 win season before it even starts is bad mojo give how weak the East is.

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

WHY DON'T WE SKIP THIS BULL ABOUT CHILDRESS AND GO RIGHT AFTER CARMELO. PERSONALLY I'VE WAITED 34 YEARS FOR ANOTHER TITLE. HOW MUCH WAITING DO WE NEED??? BRING IN CARMELO AND LET'S GIVE THIS FAN BASE SOME REAL HOPE TED .. THANKS

Posted by: BruinSteve | July 2, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I understand that point of view. I just think that a great player can have a good season and do his part to get his team to the finals, and then in an elimination game play as poorly as i've seen them play, just to get bailed out by a lesser teammate and win a chip. now it's all Kobe won and Lebron didn't, well when it was time for the star to shine in game 7 Kobe went 6-24 and Ron Ron won'em a 'chip. in Bron's elimination game, he messed around and got a triple double (those come super easy i guess) but didn't get any support from teammates. All i'm saying is there is a gluttony of information and statistics that can show which player plays the game better individually (in regards to the things he can control)but people would rather look to an accomplishment that can't possibly be achieved individually. but you guys definitely aren't the only people that go with the Rangs argument. i just think that a guy with no rings is a better basketball player. i mean it's undisputable that Kobe had the better team right?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

;;;

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Kobe was turrible in that Game7, any illusions people have of him being on Jordan's level were hopefully dismissed because as great as Kobe is- he's no MJ

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

WHY DON'T WE SKIP THIS BULL ABOUT CHILDRESS AND GO RIGHT AFTER CARMELO. PERSONALLY I'VE WAITED 34 YEARS FOR ANOTHER TITLE. HOW MUCH WAITING DO WE NEED??? BRING IN CARMELO AND LET'S GIVE THIS FAN BASE SOME REAL HOPE TED .. THANKS

Posted by: BruinSteve | July 2, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Childress is pure ass fareal. i don't understand the appeal at all. I think he puts up worse #s than Rubio and he's like 6'10. He sucked here that's why he took the money and ran to europe. Like that's the best option for budding superstars. I will not support J Chilly as a wizard.
BTW he's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to paid to have a grill like that. his teeth are jacked up, and it's about time to let go of that fro he looks ridiculous.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

see. So of the list of back-to-back MVP recipients, which one is the best player?

Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem (only one to win back-to-back with a name change in between)
Moses Malone
Bird
Magic
MJ
Duncan
Nash
James

And what does it say that Robertson, Shaq, Hakeem and Kobe have only one won?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

My two cents is that MJ was the best with Bird next. Wilt was just supremely taller and more agile than anyone else and the same goes for Kareem, not to take anything away from them.

I hat MJ wiht a passion, but mainly that feeling is based on his being just so much better than anyone else.

Kobe can be shut down. LeBron can be shut down, Wade can be shut down.

The only player in the history of the NBA that could shut down MJ was...

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I dont think any of what I said is unrealistic at all, and what I said was it's not too much to expect them to be sniffing .500 around season's end. IMO, being satisfied with a 25 win season before it even starts is bad mojo give how weak the East is.

Posted by: divi3

On paper (which is all we're talking about at this point anyway) AJ, CB, Arenas, Haywood, Miller, Foye, etc looked like a .500 team too.

Chicago has a team with at least as much talent, probably more, which had been playing together for a couple of years, and they hit .500.

Is .500 out of the realm of possibility for the Wizards? I guess not. But as an expectation of where a team -- hoping their star comes back as a star, hoping their rookies play well, hoping their promising PF can come back from injury and play as well over the whole season as he did last year, still looking for someone to hold down the center position, and a host of other if's -- should end up? I think there are too many questions with this team to expect .500. It's fine to hope for it, but a more reasonable expectation is probably a bit of an improvement over last year's record along with promising signs from their young players.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

LaBradford Smith

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Plus, expecting something to be the case is not the same as being satisfied with it.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Kobe was turrible in that Game7, any illusions people have of him being on Jordan's level were hopefully dismissed because as great as Kobe is- he's no MJ

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

anybody hear about Kobe's finger on his shooting hand being permanantly damaged? they say he didn't get surgery and played with the fracture and now his knuckle is all jacked up. The don't think they can repair it b/c it's cartilage damge inside the knuckle. he's also got some serious gimpiness goin on in the knee.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I am looking for us to improve by 15-20% this year so that means 30-32 wins.

If we outperform, so be it. We aren't winning anything this year, so let's not quibble over whether the toast hits the floor butter side up down. it still hits the floor and I'm not eating it.

Mainly cuz I am pretty sure Arenas took a crap right there as a joke.

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I have no argument in terms of Kobe's offensive ability. He is one of the best shot makres in the game. However let's not say that just b/c Kobe can do it Bron can't. I've seen Bron shoot it well from inside and outside the arc. LBJ is the best finisher around the rim in the game (left and right hand, finess and power). it's absolutely absurd to think that LBJ cannot post smaller guards. perhaps he doesn't do this as often, b/c he is the defacto point forward and is resposible for facilitating others in the offense and therfore doesn't want to turn his back to the rest of the court.
Bron has one of the highest bball iqs in the game. The reason he doesn't work like Kobe off the ball is because he's usually on the ball. he doesn't play with a real point guard and often brings the ball up to start the offense.
The defense angle is laughable. Kobe the hacktician plays hard on d and for all his flailing arms and pulled up shorts still caught 60 from Gil and couldn't find a way to stop Ray Ray from getting open. Both he and LBJ are making the all nba defensive teams nowadays, i just never see Kobe blocking shots,jumping passing lanes for steals or guarding all positions b/w 1-4.
-lilhollywood
-------------

I never said Lebron can't hit shots, nor did I say Lebron can't post-up smaller players.

What I did say is that he cannot do it as well as Kobe. And I stand by that with 100% confidence. Kobe abuses smaller players in the post, and his ability to hit shots is unmatched.

And the game Ray-Ray went off in, Kobe was not guarding Allen. He was guarding Rondo for the majority of that game, as he did for most of the series. And in that series Rondo went from certain pundits claiming he was arguably the best PG in the game to them realizing he's still a step below the truly elite class of players in the league.

"being able to hit all of these wonderful shots from all that range and all of that degree of difficulty gets Kobe exactly 1/10 of a point more per game than Tha Kang."

This is true. But you're failing to realize he does it at a lower rate of touches, which makes it all the more impressive IMO (notice i didn't say shots, as LBJ shoots a higher percentage, mostly due to his ability to elevate and finish at the rim).

LBJ is a better finisher, true, and he's better in transition, but both are direct results of his superior athleticism in comparison to Kobe.

I just think you're confusing my argument by claiming I'm saying LBJ can't do something or doesn't do something. Not true. What I'm saying is he can't do it as well as Kobe. That's not an insult to LBJ. Few in the history of the game can do those things as well as Kobe. LBJ still has a long way to go reach that status.

Let me put it this way: if you were a coach telling a kid to study a player for their skill and fundamentals in how to play the game, who would you choose as the model player? You'd be lying if you say LBJ over Kobe...

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Lebron cannot post-up a smaller or weaker defender the way Kobe can. Lebron does not have the shooting range Kobe does. Lebron is not as good of an on-the-ball defender as Kobe. And Lebron certainly does not command his team from a leadership standpoint the way Kobe does (and even this was evident during the Olympics

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

And the game Ray-Ray went off in, Kobe was not guarding Allen. He was guarding Rondo for the majority of that game, as he did for most of the series. And in that series Rondo went from certain pundits claiming he was arguably the best PG in the game to them realizing he's still a step below the truly elite class of players in the league.

you don't think your team's best defender should step up and cool off a guy who's on his way to setting an NBA finals record. That makes perfect sense, Rondo was killin that game.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Moses won back to back because he was the baddest, cheatingest, dirtiest step on your foot and slap your momma, stat jackinginst player ever to hit the NBA


But he was a bad a$$. Loved watching him
I bet he could still lace em up and show haywood a thing or two.

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

i just think that a guy with no rings is a better basketball player. i mean it's undisputable that Kobe had the better team right?

Posted by: lilhollywood10

The Lakers are probably better than the Cavs, team-wise, but the Cavs are better than the Heat team Wade plays for (to wrap it back around).

And I believe I said rings were a component, not THE component. If it was just about one game with Kobe, then maybe that would be the case, but he has an established history of taking over games and closing them out. Even when he was playing with Shaq and Shaq was overall the better player. LeBron has closed out some games / series as well, so it's not like he doesn't have the ability. But if we're talking about clunkers on the big stage, look at LBJ's game before the elimination game...yuck.

I just think it's not accurate to look at regular season stats or MVPs as more of an indicator than 'Ships. Kobe and LeBron have been the two best players in the league for a while now....and Kobe only has one MVP, while Nash, who is great, but not Kobe, has two. Which either means that MVP is (as the name suggests) not about who's the best, or the voting is skewed. Great players without clutch ability are not as great. They are the C-Webbs of the league.

Ultimately, it's not a discussion I usually participate in because at the end of it, at that level, deciding who's greater is subjective.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

This is true. But you're failing to realize he does it at a lower rate of touches, which makes it all the more impressive IMO (notice i didn't say shots, as LBJ shoots a higher percentage, mostly due to his ability to elevate and finish at the rim).

LBJ is a better finisher, true, and he's better in transition, but both are direct results of his superior athleticism in comparison to Kobe.

I just think you're confusing my argument by claiming I'm saying LBJ can't do something or doesn't do something. Not true. What I'm saying is he can't do it as well as Kobe. That's not an insult to LBJ. Few in the history of the game can do those things as well as Kobe. LBJ still has a long way to go reach that status.

Let me put it this way: if you were a coach telling a kid to study a player for their skill and fundamentals in how to play the game, who would you choose as the model player? You'd be lying if you say LBJ over Kobe...

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 3:24 PM | Report
why would i be lying if it is statistically proven that LBJ does just about everything better and more efficiently than Kobe. i dunno what you mean about LBJ getting his on more touches, while noting that you don't mean shots. i understand how one would get more assists, given more touches, but where is the sta for "touches" because i am almost positive that Kobe touches the ball as much as Lebron.
maybe you chose not to say shots because you know that Kobe took 41 more shots than lebron this year but still ended up with 52 less made baskets. i dunno why i would tell a kid that 45% shooting is better than 50% shooting but go for it.
LBJ's ability to get to the rim and finish at the rim shouldn't be looked at as a negative quality, but more so as a positive. his ability to get to the rim almost at will makes the game easier for him. All the while you'd show a kid film of Kobe taking some of the most ill advised, off balanced,fadeaway (for tha NY lovers) high degree of difficulty shots to prove what? That Kobe can hit tough shots? and when they're not falling just make sure you have an allstar PF to rebound it and kick it out to your defensive specialist to bail Mamba out.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Exactly. Every single one of those claims ended with "the way Kobe can" or "as well as Kobe" (or something similar).

"you don't think your team's best defender should step up and cool off a guy who's on his way to setting an NBA finals record. That makes perfect sense, Rondo was killin that game."

Who ended up winning the series? Sure Allen set a record that game, but you don't need to deviate from your tactics because one of the opponents has a once-in-a-lifetime night shooting the ball in game 2. Allen cooled off the rest of the series, as expected, and the key to stopping the Celtics was stopping Rondo from the outset. Seemed to work out well for the Lakers, no?

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

wade's team now vs Bron's team now is debatable. i was saying wade with shaq in a landslide over Bron's team now

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Who ended up winning the series? Sure Allen set a record that game, but you don't need to deviate from your tactics because one of the opponents has a once-in-a-lifetime night shooting the ball in game 2. Allen cooled off the rest of the series, as expected, and the key to stopping the Celtics was stopping Rondo from the outset. Seemed to work out well for the Lakers, no?

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

no one expected ray allen to GO Cold the way he did. He had a stretch of 0-11 3s or something following the record setter. What no one expected was for Ron artest to go for 20+ in a game seven when Kobe did everythin he could to choke it away.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Little known fact: Josh Childress also played "Bubbles" in The Wire.

Posted by: J-Wiz | July 2, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

ade's team now vs Bron's team now is debatable. i was saying wade with shaq in a landslide over Bron's team now

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Not to belabor it, Wade's team back then is debatable with the current Cavs, Wade's team now is not even a comparison.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Little known fact: Josh Childress also played "Bubbles" in The Wire.

Posted by: J-Wiz

LOL! Too true. Another reason we should pass. We need to find the NBA's Omar -- straight killer, in a basketball sense.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Let me put it this way: if you were a coach telling a kid to study a player for their skill and fundamentals in how to play the game, who would you choose as the model player? You'd be lying if you say LBJ over Kobe

LBJ passes better than Kobe.
LBJ shoots at a higher % than Kobe
LBJ rebounds better than Kobe
These are facts. The stats don't lie.


Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Little known fact: Josh Childress also played "Bubbles" in The Wire.

Posted by: J-Wiz

LOL! Too true. Another reason we should pass. We need to find the NBA's Omar -- straight killer, in a basketball sense.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Too much!

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"LBJ's ability to get to the rim and finish at the rim shouldn't be looked at as a negative quality, but more so as a positive."

Who said it was a negative?

What I said was that it was more due to his athletic ability, NOT his skill level in relation to Kobe. Lebron gets his mostly BECAUSE of superior athleticism, Kobe gets his DESPITE only having above-average athleticism (at this point in his career in relation to the rest of the NBA).

Let me give you an analogy. Dwight Howard (who I know you love...) shot 61% from the field and averaged 18.3 ppg. Pau Gasol shot 54% from the field and averaged 18.3 ppg. Are you telling me that Dwight Howard is a more skilled big man than Pau Gasol because Howard shoots a higher percentage from the field?

C'mon now. Kobe is more skilled and more fundamentally sound than Lebron. His body positioning, release point, shooting stroke, use of headfakes, use of screens, efficiency of movement, and vision in regards to spacing are all absolutely superb. Lebron doesn't come within touching distance of Kobe in those areas (except maybe body positioning, but even then I'd give Kobe the advantage because he has less strength and body mass to work with).

I look at Lebron and am in awe at how physically unstoppable he is. I look at Kobe and am in awe at how he mentally undresses his opponents, finds their weaknesses, and transforms his game to put himself in the best possible situation to succeed, game in and game out. There's a big difference there, and IMO, the latter is much more impressive.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Exactly. Every single one of those claims ended with "the way Kobe can" or "as well as Kobe" (or something similar).

while it's disputable that a 205lb man backs down smaller players better than a 250lb man. it is also reasonale to think that people smaller than a 205lb man are ususally smaller guards, while bron is ususally guarded by 3s, sometimes 2s but very few smaller than 205.
and once again if Bron is getting guarded by a smaller player, the other team usually brings the double in which case bron is dishin.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

These are facts. The stats don't lie.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

So David Lee is as good as Dwight Howard?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

i hear you, but you're only talking about scoring. What about the rest of the game, how does Lebron's superior athleticism help him get his teammates involved in the game to the tune of at least 3 more assist per game. is it just Bron's leaping ability, or body positioning and control that allow him at avg 2+ mor rebs per game that Kobe. Defensively i can agree that his athleticism gives him an edge in those chasedowns, but then again he chases everyone down.You rarely see Kobe with a chasedown. If you think headfaking because you can't jump makes you better than a player who doesn't head fake you're trippin.

I also appreciate the DH to Pau comparison, you know Dwight holds a special place in my heart. That having been said; that has to be the most insulting comparison's ever. To say that LBJ is DH and Mamba is Pau. i'll go more old Shaq (late 90s early 00s) vs Rik Smits (since kobe is a middle of the road athlete now with no hops,per your description)*sidebar, i can't stop laughing*.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

So David Lee is as good as Dwight Howard?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abus
they're both all stars

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

So David Lee is as good as Dwight Howard?

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse
just looked at the stats, those two were just about even. Put Lee on the Magic and they might be better off b/c lee doesn't have delusions of being Pat Ewing. while i'm sure DH would thrive cleaning the glass from all thos chuckers up there. i do think they're pretty close..........did i fall in the trap door?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 1, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

thunk, your slurping of EG has become just as tiresome as the constant negativity of folks like BF78 and DC_MAN.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 2, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

"What about the rest of the game, how does Lebron's superior athleticism help him get his teammates involved in the game to the tune of at least 3 more assist per game."

Assists -- I'd say the differing offenses they play in heavily contribute to this. Lebron plays as a de facto point for a lot of the game, whereas Kobe plays a lot of his game off the ball. The triangle offense is a ball-movement oriented offense where all the players share the ball, whereas Cleveland loves to iso Lebron for the drive and kick. Lebron's passing ability is superb for a player his size, though, I will agree with that.

And obviously Lebron's size, strength, athleticism, and proximity to the rim defensively contribute to his rebounding numbers.

And you talk about insulting comparisons! Rick Smits!! One of the greatest players ever is compared to Rick Smits!! I gave you an All-NBA first team center who consecutively has advanced further than Lebron in the playoffs and BEAT him in the conference finals last year, and you're comparing Kobe to Rick Smits!! It's my turn to start laughing...

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"Well, this is what I mean about pre-ordained excuses to be a terrible team. Is it just my opinion that Wall, Hinrich, and Arenas are a staggering upgrade over Miller/Foye/Boykins? Because if they're not, we have a serious problem dont we? Is it so ludicrous to expect/demand from AB that he play just as well or even better given now he has a legit backcourt? Is it too much to ask that Seraphin and Booker represent a quantum leap over Oberto? $5mill/yr coach should be expected to drag ass to 30 wins or something? Why? I dont think any of what I said is unrealistic at all, and what I said was it's not too much to expect them to be sniffing .500 around season's end. IMO, being satisfied with a 25 win season before it even starts is bad mojo give how weak the East is. Posted by: divi3

LOL it's like listening to the voice on a robocall. The message is prerecorded. No use expecting it to suddenly start making sense.

Congrats my friend -- you and logic don't inhabit the same universe. I'll leave you to your 'mojo'.


Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

"and once again if Bron is getting guarded by a smaller player, the other team usually brings the double in which case bron is dishin."

Lebron is almost always guarded by a smaller player. Nobody Lebron's size (or larger) has the quickness to stay with Lebron on the perimeter. Against the Celtics it was mostly Paul Pierce and Tony Allen, both of whom Lebron has the size and strength advantage. Which is why I believe he's not as adept at posting up an opponent as Kobe, especially in relation to his other skills.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

let's see, upper right hand corner of the screen -- there it is, the 'ignore' button. Let me just activate that... ah, that's better.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"thunk, your slurping of EG has become just as tiresome as the constant negativity of folks like BF78 and DC_MAN.Posted by: rufus_t_firefly"

I think those three are all on some level trolls. More about the reaction than the content.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

the Smits comparison was a joke. But the reason that a 6'9" 250lb human is running the point forward is because of his skills and bball IQ. I'm not saying kobe has a low BBall IQ, but he's the designated shooter. he's not responsible for getting other guys involved. What did Ron Ron say after game 7 "Kobe NEVER passes me the ball so when he passed it to me i was like WHAT and i shot it." It's lebron's responsibility to get other guys involved and get his too. That's why you see clowns like MO Williams making all star teams with Lebron, eventhough he's always been a middle of the road tweener.If the triangle is all about ball movement and everyone sharing the ball then how does kobe have so much time with the ball in his hands to pump fake after pump fake, jab step after jab step, set you r man up for this setyour man u for that.

And obviously Lebron's size, strength, athleticism, and proximity to the rim defensively contribute to his rebounding numbers.

or his ability to track the ball and position himself, being that he doesn't play particularly close to the rim while defending 2s and 3s on the perimeter.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

good stuff psps23

i gotta bail and my babymomma crashed the home computer so i might not be back til monday. have a happy and safe fourth fellas and ladies. remember point the barrel to the sky and keep it straight up in the air when you squeeze. no strays on the fourth.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 2, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I always enjoy a little 'ball discussion to kill the friday afternoons.

Have a good one lilhollywood.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Congrats my friend -- you and logic don't inhabit the same universe. I'll leave you to your 'mojo'.


Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 4:47 PM

Newsflash: just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're illogical. I know this may be hard for you to conceive of from way up there on that pedestal you place yourself, but it's true.

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

for those who like reading stories about massive juveniles who may never work out -- this is a fun one.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/01/sim-bhullar/index.html

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

"Newsflash: just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're illogical. I know this may be hard for you to conceive of from way up there on that pedestal you place yourself, but it's true. Posted by: divi3"

Thanks for one last chuckle. No it doesn't mean 'they're' illogical, but you are. And that's not a pedestal -- that's the ground.

Try it some time, maybe you'll like it. Nah, I doubt that.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

In the debate of Kobe vs Lebron no is taking age into consideration. right now Kobe is better fundamentally than Lebron in shooting the ball and the post up game....he is older and has had more time to hone his skills. Lebron with the way he works will become better at those things barring injury. Give him time.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 2, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for one last chuckle. No it doesn't mean 'they're' illogical, but you are. And that's not a pedestal -- that's the ground.

Try it some time, maybe you'll like it. Nah, I doubt that.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 5:11 PM

Hey man, I gave you specific reasons based on the team actually improving in various areas with the backcourt being the most obvious. Best you could do was your stale LOLs. Whatever.

It is pretty funny that I catch some grief for thinking that Yi is trash and Hinrich's sun has set....yet it seems like I think Capt will have more positive impact than the people who were happy we signed him do! Nature of opinions I suppose, Happy 4th

Posted by: divi3 | July 2, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

did i fall in the trap door?

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Nope, just firmly established that what you guys are debating is perception, not objective reality.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

It is pretty funny that I catch some grief for thinking that Yi is trash and Hinrich's sun has set....yet it seems like I think Capt will have more positive impact than the people who were happy we signed him do! Nature of opinions I suppose, Happy 4th

Posted by: divi3

I was actually thinking the reverse. For someone who was pretty down on Hinrich, Yi, and Seraphin, to hear you say .500 was a reasonable expectation was a little surprising. Happy 4th!

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for one last chuckle. No it doesn't mean 'they're' illogical, but you are. And that's not a pedestal -- that's the ground.

Try it some time, maybe you'll like it. Nah, I doubt that.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Pretty funny, I assume you put "they're" in quotes because you thought it was a mistake. However, Divi used the appropriate word and spelling...something I have trouble doing because my fat a$$ sausage fingers hit 3 keys at once.

Lebron has one thing that Kobe and Wade do not, and that is that from 6months before he set foot on the NBA hardwood, he had a fre pass to charge and take 63 steps on his way to the basket.

I know that Kobe and Wade ge the same benefits now, but they had to "earn" the right to cheat.

Ledouce bag thinks that is the way the game is really played. So while he gets away with it all season long against teams like the Wiz and Grizz, when PO time begins and he has to man up against solid stars who also have "earned" the right to cheat, and the games get called more equitably, LeBron gets called and loses his focus for a minute or two b/c he thinks he got robbed.

The other guys get that they are allowed to cheat during the regular season and when playoffs start, they mitigate their actions accordingly.

Until THA KLANG learns this, he will have little success in June.

Posted by: Blurred | July 2, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/01/sim-bhullar/index.html

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 5:09 PM
Good luck to these kids! Won't Stern love it if they make it to the NBA in a few years.
Their teams will soak up another ethnic fan base!

Posted by: rickgonz | July 2, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

"Pretty funny, I assume you put "they're" in quotes because you thought it was a mistake. However, Divi used the appropriate word and spelling...something I have trouble doing because my fat a$$ sausage fingers hit 3 keys at once."

Nope. As a sign that I wasn't talking about everybody -- just one individual.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse


"thunk, your slurping of EG has become just as tiresome as the constant negativity of folks like BF78 and DC_MAN.Posted by: rufus_t_firefly"

I think those three are all on some level trolls. More about the reaction than the content.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 4:51 PM

we live in a big world. some think grunfeld stinks out loud given the last two years of abject failure. others think he's great considering how quickly he turned the wizards around with four straight playoff appearances. the truth about grunfeld is probably somewhere in the middle.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 2, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Y'all quit your hatin' on The Thunk! In addition to being an excellent electronic band, the man's a sweet churnin' urn of burnin' thunk.

He's the best thang about Ernie G!

Posted by: KTV1 | July 2, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

I really hope we're talking about a much improved Childress here.. I've heard reports that he struggled alot in his first year with Olympiakos but then picked his play up mightily his second; if this isn't the case, why are we waisting our time? The Josh Childress I watched on the Hawks is no more talented than Al Thornton, if not less talented. I really hope I'm missing something, and that he improved in leaps and bounds playing in Greece.

Posted by: TDAV | July 2, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

*wasting

Posted by: TDAV | July 2, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Mr....Firefly, is it?

I can assure you that I speak the truth about Ernest Grunfeld's basketball acumen. No hyperbole is needed or intended when examining the steps he has undertaken in such a short time to change the direction of our beloved Washington Wizards.

He has banished from the team a bunch of aged, cuddly pooches (kept past their usefulness by a doting owner (RIP)) and replaced them with, by all reliable accounts, young tigers--Wall, Seraphin, Booker, and N'Diaye. You will come to know them well in time.

We're on the precipice of a bold, new era in which our GM is fearlessly charting the course to franchise greatness. Give way, naysayers, and let the man do what, at least for now, is a thankless job. No doubt, once the wins start piling up, the bandwagoners will want to hitch a ride and he will most graciously accept you aboard despite your unkind words.

Enjoy the fireworks this weekend and know that our eventual championship celebration will be every bit as spectacular!

In Grunfeld We Trust!!

Posted by: melodious_thunk | July 2, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Nevermind Childress....

If DWade signs with the Bulls and they need to ship Luol Deng out of town in order to afford another max player (see article), can Les BouleS absorb Deng's contract?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 2, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Nevermind Childress....

If DWade signs with the Bulls and they need to ship Luol Deng out of town in order to afford another max player (see article), can Les BouleS absorb Deng's contract?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429

Posted by: DC_MAN88

Good player, and they might be able to, but my guess is they won't based on the size and length of his contract.

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse


If the Heat miss out on Wade AND James, they will have essentially bet everything they own and rolled snake eyes. Their new team captain? One Michael Paul Beasley, Jr.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 2, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

"If the Heat miss out on Wade AND James, they will have essentially bet everything they own and rolled snake eyes. Their new team captain? One Michael Paul Beasley, Jr.

Posted by: bobabuie | July 2, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse "

And?

They'll still have Rafer Alston, Jermaine O'Neal, Mario Chalmers, Quentin Richardson, and plenty of cap space for next season.

Don't bet just yet if they lose DWade that the Heat won't still be better than Les BouleS.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 2, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

"They'll still have Rafer Alston, Jermaine O'Neal, Mario Chalmers, Quentin Richardson, and plenty of cap space for next season."

The only players the Heat have under contract for next season are Beasley and Chalmers. Everyone else is an unrestricted FA.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

""They'll still have Rafer Alston, Jermaine O'Neal, Mario Chalmers, Quentin Richardson, and plenty of cap space for next season."

The only players the Heat have under contract for next season are Beasley and Chalmers. Everyone else is an unrestricted FA.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 2, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse "

Sounds like Stockton and Malone pt. 2 to me. LOL!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Let's just say that a team like the Knicks lose out on the FA sweepstakes, would the Knicks come after Gilbert and what would we accept from the Knicks in return?

Even though there are plenty of you that would like to see Gilbert gone at all cost, would it be smart economically to let him go on the cheat just for cap space???

If we did, then we would be rolling the dice just like the teams are doing now in the hopes that a star FA choses us.

A lot of you would like to see Gilbert gone but like it or not a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Don't let me find out that yawls that are so quick to get rid of Gilbert don't realize that the fellow may be every bit as valuable as some that is on the market now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 3, 2010 1:05 AM | Report abuse

Some other players that I think should be of interest to the Wizards in the summer league:

Richard Hendrix -- Pacers - 6-8, 265

Paul Davis - Magic - 6-11, 275 (he's back at least for the summer)

Rod Benson - Jazz - 6-10, 235

I'd love to see the Wizards get any of these players into training camp.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | July 3, 2010 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Michael Lee,
Any new news (or rumors) to report? I keep hoping for a big surprise to sneak up on us.

Posted by: Independent11 | July 3, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

"Michael Lee,
Any new news (or rumors) to report? I keep hoping for a big surprise to sneak up on us.

Posted by: Independent11 | July 3, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse "

The biggest surprise so far is that Teddy Big Bucks is keeping EG as his GM.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

"Let's just say that a team like the Knicks lose out on the FA sweepstakes, would the Knicks come after Gilbert and what would we accept from the Knicks in return?

Even though there are plenty of you that would like to see Gilbert gone at all cost, would it be smart economically to let him go on the cheat just for cap space???

If we did, then we would be rolling the dice just like the teams are doing now in the hopes that a star FA choses us.

A lot of you would like to see Gilbert gone but like it or not a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Don't let me find out that yawls that are so quick to get rid of Gilbert don't realize that the fellow may be every bit as valuable as some that is on the market now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 3, 2010 1:05 AM | Report abuse "

Aren't you listening?

Didn't you hear EG and Teddy tell you that Gilby is here to stay?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

So it appears Amare is rejoining his old coach with the Knicks -- makes sense, since he knows the system. The weird team for me has been the Bucks, signing a couple older FAs to 5 year contracts.

John Salmons ($40 mil) I can understand because in his 30 games with the Bucks last year, he was their most valuable player outside Bogut. Brandon Jennings gets most of the credit but it was Salmons' presence that brought Jennings out of a slump and back into the offense. Salmons will be 31 in December, however.

More puzzling to me is Drew Gooden getting $32 mil. John Hollinger of ESPN says the figure seems way too high but then goes on to defend Drew as an effective rebounder. Depends on what you think of Hollinger's player evals, I guess. He seemed surprised himself. Gooden just doesn't impress people.

The Bucks must thing they're close to contention but it still depends on Bogut.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"Don't let me find out that yawls that are so quick to get rid of Gilbert don't realize that the fellow may be every bit as valuable as some that is on the market now. LarryInClintonMD."

I'm sure that's true. But that says more about the state of the current FA market than it does about the player. Some of the numbers seem pretty crazy, and the really big contracts are even in play yet.

Gilbert's value to another club depends more on his contract (and any deal the Wiz are willing to make about it) than it does on his playing ability. Unfortunate but true.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

how do i do the cool italics like you guys when i quote yall. I'm all for uniformity.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 3, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Over on the Redskins Insider blog, the discussion was about changing coaches and I mentioned the Wiz and Eddie Jordan. An irate fan posted this:

"This isn't how it happened at all. Jordan was a player and a GM of the Wizards. He was never the coach.Abe Pollin hired Jordan to be Director of Basketball operations. Pollin fired Jordan, himself, on May 7, 2003. Pollin hired Grunfeld in June, 2003 to take Jordan's job.Posted by: greenback"

Might be the first time anybody ever confused Eddie Jordan with Michael.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

LMFAO!

Eddie Jordan...someone whom Barkley said would be great for the Sixers.

How'd that work out?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Eddie Jordan...someone whom Barkley said would be great for the Sixers.


You mean that Barkley was WRONG?????

Posted by: VBFan | July 3, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

lilhollywood,

A straightforward tutorial on italicizing (three simple steps).

http://www.ehow.com/how_2135530_italicized-text-simple-html-programming.html

After reading the above you will be able to do this:

Ernie is a bum!

The above is a sample sentence and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the writer.

Posted by: artiesliver | July 3, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

The above is a sample sentence and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the writer

Posted by: artiesliver | July 3, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

right

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 3, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

thx holmes

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 3, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 3, 2010 11:03 AM

lol!

Posted by: artiesliver | July 3, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Leonsis says he wants to move like a tortoise.....hasn't the franchise been doing that the past 32 years?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Newsday is reporting about a potential "sign and trade" between NY and Denver. Which could potentially land Melo with the Knicks.
Amare and Melo with D'Antoni's run and gun offense...
They would definitely need to figure out how to add Tony Parker...

Meanwhile, Newsday also notes the Wiz are interested in David Lee. Amare and Gilbert?

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 3, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see the Wizards sign Rodney Carney. Just picture this:

John Wall
Gilbert Arenas
Rodney Carney

That is a major PROBLEM and a THREAT to other teams!!

Anyone agree?

Posted by: messenger_boi89 | July 3, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

i like Carney long *pause*,athletic and defensive minded. Great hops, streaky J, no "Pat" to speak of, but he's a nice player to bring off the bench b/c he doesn't do much to hurt you.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 3, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

How many knee surgeries has carney had? i think i can remember at least one early in his career.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 3, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"If DWade signs with the Bulls and they need to ship Luol Deng out of town in order to afford another max player (see article), can Les BouleS absorb Deng's contract?

Posted by: DC_MAN88

"Good player, and they might be able to, but my guess is they won't based on the size and length of his contract."

Posted by: ts35 | July 2, 2010 11:06 PM

Deng is Jamison v2.0, an undersized tweener who puts up solid numbers and gets paid like a franchise player even though he isn't close to being one. And on top of that, he's hurt half the time. His contract is ludicrous--$51 mill/4 yrs. The Wiz would be fools to take it on, even if they could (which they probably can't anyway, because they've used up most of their cap space on Hinrich and Yi).

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Rodney Carney has been coasting on the fumes of potential his entire NBA career. I'd say that tank has about run dry at this point.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Aren't you listening? Didn't you hear EG and Teddy tell you that Gilby is here to stay?

They talked about forgiveness and welcoming Arenas back to the team. At no time have they said that he is in the franchise's long-term plans. I believe that he'll be dealt by next season's trading deadline at the latest.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 3, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

lilh and artie
same syntax for bold by using a b
if you so desire

Posted by: rickgonz | July 3, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse


[Ernest Grunfeld] has banished from the team a bunch of aged, cuddly pooches (kept past their usefulness by a doting owner (RIP)) and replaced them with, by all reliable accounts, young tigers--Wall, Seraphin, Booker, and N'Diaye. You will come to know them well in time.

Posted by: melodious_thunk

Yes, we will. And if they stink, we'll also know that Grunfeld will be unemployed. I hope you're right, btw.

Posted by: ArmChairQB | July 3, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

and kalo likes using blockquote to show an indented paragraph

this is an indented paragraph, and then I'm not sure but believe what defines the right edge is the width of the column is when it stops. perhaps it should stop right here!

and you could use combinations

to emphasize even more what you quoted is dumb/smart/sassy/silly/whatever

Posted by: rickgonz | July 3, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

word on the street is that nyc is going to be signing amare anytime now...

so what htey should do to convince lebron to sign is tell them they will trade eddy curry and danilo gallinari, who is now expendable because he plays the same position as lebron, for gilbert arenas...the numbers work and I would do that in a heartbeat, because we get a real solid offensive wing who is young...curry's 11 mil comes off next smmer along with jianlians money and we got a decent young team

Posted by: jasonma1 | July 3, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

also this way nyc has lebron amare and gil as a big three which is very very solid team

Posted by: jasonma1 | July 3, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse


so what htey should do to convince lebron to sign is tell them they will trade eddy curry and danilo gallinari, who is now expendable because he plays the same position as lebron, for gilbert arenas...the numbers work and I would do that in a heartbeat, because we get a real solid offensive wing who is young...curry's 11 mil comes off next smmer along with jianlians money and we got a decent young team

Posted by: jasonma1

maybe that's why arenas is no longer going to change his jersey number to 6 (which happens to be what lebron is changing his number to). it was announced recently that arenas will wear number 9. maybe he's holding out hope that not only will he be traded, but that he'll be traded to the team lebron is on.

Posted by: omgwthrotfl | July 3, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

For fun, took a look at the last few Rookies of the Year and the impact they had on their team's won-loss record in their first season. Had to eliminate Emeka Okafor because he went to an expansion franchise in Charlotte, and there was one year when the award was split between two players. There were two instances where an RoY made a really huge impact -- Chris Paul with 20 additional wins, and LeBron with 18 -- but the average over the eleven seasons was between 7 and 8 wins, with 7 as the median (Derrick Rose). That holds if you confine it to guards as well.

Obviously there were many other factors to consider (for instance, Elton Brand and Ron Artest were rooks on the same club, as were Gasol and Shane Battier). The number holds if you look at guards alone, too.

It's oversimplified, of course, but I think a reasonable estimate of win improvement as a result of Wall's addition, assuming he's RoY, is 7-8 wins.

We can always hope for more, of course.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse


That would put the Wizards at about 33-34 wins, Samson151. That looks a little rosy to me considering the guys most responsible for a lot of those wins last year are gone (obviously, the notable exception being Arenas). I guess Wall better be twice as good as your garden-variety RoY for the Wizards to have that .500 record this season that some on the here have optimistically projected.

Posted by: tgif11 | July 3, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

"They talked about forgiveness and welcoming Arenas back to the team. At no time have they said that he is in the franchise's long-term plans. I believe that he'll be dealt by next season's trading deadline at the latest.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 3, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse "

And, at no time did they say they wanted to trade him.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

"Deng is Jamison v2.0, an undersized tweener who puts up solid numbers and gets paid like a franchise player even though he isn't close to being one. And on top of that, he's hurt half the time. His contract is ludicrous--$51 mill/4 yrs. The Wiz would be fools to take it on, even if they could (which they probably can't anyway, because they've used up most of their cap space on Hinrich and Yi).

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse "

Deng is a 6-9 SF, and he does play a little defense, unlike MeTawn who doesn't even pretend.

Also, he's averaged 67 games played/season and he's only 25.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

DH and David Lee are close?
Yes the scoring and the rebounding .
What about the block? what about the defense?
Are you telling us if David lee is with orlando,the team will win close to 59 games? be in the eastern confrence shampionship game?
To me orlando with out Dh will not win more than the number of games Ny won last season.you might argue about other players.RL did not win even with ray allen,the rest of the players are noting if they were not playing with DH.In basketball playing with best players like DH will make you look good.

Posted by: gtefferra | July 3, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know how much cap space the Wizards have? Can they afford to go after some of the second tier free agents currently on the market or they saving up for next year (Carmelo Anthony & Kevin Durant)?

Posted by: Ronnie5 | July 3, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know how much cap space the Wizards have? Can they afford to go after some of the second tier free agents currently on the market or they saving up for next year (Carmelo Anthony & Kevin Durant)?

Posted by: Ronnie5 | July 3, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse "

Both dudes will probably resign with their respective teams.

Don't buy into the hype that Les BouleS are saving up for next season. Strike while the iron is hot.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Deng is a 6-9 SF, and he does play a little defense, unlike MeTawn who doesn't even pretend.


Also, he's averaged 67 games played/season and he's only 25.

He's a 6' 9" forward who lacks: the quickness and ball skills to be an effective off-the-dribble threat, the back-to-the basket skills to be an effective low post threat, and the range to be an effective 3 pt threat (his 3 pt. percentage has improved the less couple of seasons, but that's mainly because he's taking a lot fewer of them and only shooting when he's wide open by a mile) . He's basically a one-dimensional mid-range jumpshooter. He's a a subpar rebounder for his size and athleticism. On good days his defense is nothing more than average. He's been in the NBA 6 seasons and played 61 or fewer games in 3 of them (61, 63, 49). He was given a big contract on the belief that he would develop into the Bulls go-to guy on offense; instead he's basically a secondary contributor at best, and sometimes not even that. He's a solid B-list player at best, but he's getting overpaid like an A-lister. Having put a lot of work into purging the Wiz of similar players, going out and getting another one right away but be a very stupid move by the Wiz.

(Oh, and Arenas was only 25 when he signed his current contract; that didn't change the fact that it turned out to be an overvalued deal. Same applies to Deng.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

My bad. Arenas was 26 when he signed hi current deal. But the same principle still applies.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Gakk! This is what I get for posting on a handheld:

"(his 3 pt. percentage has improved the last couple of seasons, but that's mainly because he's taking a lot fewer of them and only shooting when he's wide open by a mile)

He's been in the NBA 6 seasons and played 63 or fewer games in 3 of them (61, 63, 49).

"Having put a lot of work into purging the Wiz of similar players, going out and getting another one right away would be a very stupid move by the Wiz.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

"He's a 6' 9" forward who lacks: the quickness and ball skills to be an effective off-the-dribble threat, the back-to-the basket skills to be an effective low post threat, and the range to be an effective 3 pt threat (his 3 pt. percentage has improved the less couple of seasons, but that's mainly because he's taking a lot fewer of them and only shooting when he's wide open by a mile) . He's basically a one-dimensional mid-range jumpshooter. He's a a subpar rebounder for his size and athleticism. On good days his defense is nothing more than average. He's been in the NBA 6 seasons and played 61 or fewer games in 3 of them (61, 63, 49). He was given a big contract on the belief that he would develop into the Bulls go-to guy on offense; instead he's basically a secondary contributor at best, and sometimes not even that. He's a solid B-list player at best, but he's getting overpaid like an A-lister. Having put a lot of work into purging the Wiz of similar players, going out and getting another one right away but be a very stupid move by the Wiz.

(Oh, and Arenas was only 25 when he signed his current contract; that didn't change the fact that it turned out to be an overvalued deal. Same applies to Deng.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 3, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse "

But Deng wasn't injured like Gilby was injured.

Who's not overpaid and which max money players are actually playing up to their worth?

Deng's better than anything Les BouleS have now, and there's a gaping hole at the SF spot right now.

Deng is no "tweener" at 6-9 at the SF position like you compared him to MeTawn at the PF position. Deng never was and never will be a PF.

I'm not so sure Les BouleS can find a better player at a lower price.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 3, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Deng has a $51 million contract (less one year). He is a decent spot up shooter and defender and cannot create much.

Childress will cost maybe $22-25 million for 3 years. He can move with the ball and he is a good wing defender.

Josh Howard, if it can be determined that his knee will hold up, is a better scorer and defender than either above-mentioned player, and could probably be gotten for $12 million for three years, with only $10 Mil guaranteed.

Interesting decisions.

Posted by: khrabb | July 4, 2010 5:33 AM | Report abuse

Column from SI.com with a clip featuring Doc Rivers' son Austin. Not a John Wall-style penetrator but more of an old school PG. Best I've seen in a while...

"http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/02/rivers.notes/index.html?eref=sihp

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

The latest rumor is that pending sufficient interest from a couple max free agents, the Bulls will send Deng to Portland for C Joel Przybilla and PG/SG Jerryd Bayless, who went 11th in the '08 draft. Chicago worries that they've already given up a lot and fear getting left at the altar by James or Wade.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Deng came into the NBA jacking up a fair number of 3 pointers and hitting few of them. After a couple seasons he literally stopped cold turkey, taking only 7 three point shots and hitting just 1 in the '06'07 season. He's been building back up gradually since then. Last year he connected on 32, the vast majority uncontested, for a respectable 38%.

He's the same height as his draftmates Trevor Ariza and Josh Smith. Like Smith, Deng helps out inside, but Smith a far, far better leaper and more able to compete against bigger players. Deng's a good athlete but gets by inside on smarts and positioning.

The Bulls clearly don't want to let him go unless FA dictates.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

"That would put the Wizards at about 33-34 wins, Samson151. That looks a little rosy to me considering the guys most responsible for a lot of those wins last year are gone (obviously, the notable exception being Arenas). I guess Wall better be twice as good as your garden-variety RoY for the Wizards to have that .500 record this season that some on the here have optimistically projected.Posted by: tgif11"

That's probably true. The thing that impressed me about the RoYs is that none of the teams that drafted them went backwards. Even Okla City picked up 3 wins after Durant, and that was a team that moved cities.

But you're right, the Wiz really did 'blow the team up' to the best of their ability, and with Blatche's injury, a bunch of rookies, and an uncertain roster, look vulnerable.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"thunk, your slurping of EG has become just as tiresome as the constant negativity of folks like BF78 and DC_MAN.Posted by: rufus_t_firefly"

rufus_t_firefly

Other then Wall what's been positive to write about over the last 3 years?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | July 4, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I don't see what's wrong with taking uncontested 3's.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 4, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"Josh Howard, if it can be determined that his knee will hold up, is a better scorer and defender than either above-mentioned player, and could probably be gotten for $12 million for three years, with only $10 Mil guaranteed.

Interesting decisions.

Posted by: khrabb | July 4, 2010 5:33 AM | Report abuse "

Josh Howard ain't the player he used to be....and could be less after this knee injury.

Here's something appropriate WRT Josh Howard on this 4th of July.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BqG9kjknVw

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 4, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"I don't see what's wrong with taking uncontested 3's.Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Not a thing. Problem is, there's not enough of them to go around.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Ronnie, my .02 re. Wizard salaries

With the salaries for Hinrich and the rookies not yet listed, the Wizards are committed to about $41M. Add Hinrich, that's $50M. Add in the rookies starting with Wall's $4M+, that's real close to the assumed $56M+ salary cap.

They might still get second tier FAs through trades and can go over the salary cap via various salary exceptions they hold, including one more trade exception, the mid-level exception, veteran exception, etc. They would also have to renounce all their Bird rights to their current FAs, and will probably do that anyway as their total cap holds right now will not allow them to sign outright an FA (without doing a trade). The Wizards will probably end up with a payroll higher than the salary by a few million but will be under the luxury limit by a lot.

Posted by: rickgonz | July 4, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

sorry meant to say "with a payroll higher than the salary cap by a few million "

Posted by: rickgonz | July 4, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

[Ernest Grunfeld] has banished from the team a bunch of aged, cuddly pooches (kept past their usefulness by a doting owner (RIP)) and replaced them with, by all reliable accounts, young tigers--Wall, Seraphin, Booker, and N'Diaye. You will come to know them well in time.

Posted by: melodious_thunk

Yes, we will. And if they stink, we'll also know that Grunfeld will be unemployed. I hope you're right, btw.

Posted by: ArmChairQB

What if Wall becomes at best a respectable-but-not-great PG (say, 12 ppg, 6 apg) but Booker becomes the next Dennis Rodman? Did Ernie fail the Wizards?

Posted by: harrybalz | July 4, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

My apologies for the incorrect post, I relied heavily on the math by one of the basketball websites. The Wiz are actually about $32M committed right now.
Which would give them about $6M to $8M more under the salary cap after accounting for Hinrich and the rookies. But they still could not outrightly sign an FA until they gave up the rights to their current FAs.

Posted by: rickgonz | July 4, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Besides the fact Ted has said all along he's not interested in big time FAs this offseason, if they in reality were considering a big signing, they'd never have taken on Hinrich's salary.

4/$80mill for Dirk to stay in Dallas....in for a penny in for a pound I suppose.

Posted by: divi3 | July 4, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

So apparently Mike Miller has now met with the Lakers (no go, $$ issues), the Clips, and the Knicks. I thought Boston was in the discussion, but maybe not. He's looking for something in excess of the MLE.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"Deng never was and never will be a PF."

He'll never be a full-time PF, because he lacks the strength and the moves. but he has, in fact, played both forward positions for the Bulls.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 4, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not so sure Les BouleS can find a better player at a lower price."

So? Even if that's the case, that's not actually an argument for overpaying to get Deng.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 4, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

OUTLAW - yes
CHILDRESS - no
DENG - what-evah

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 4, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

So apparently Mike Miller has now met with the Lakers (no go, $$ issues), the Clips, and the Knicks. I thought Boston was in the discussion, but maybe not. He's looking for something in excess of the MLE.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

He won't get it IMHO of course. He'll get a desperation offer from some of these left-out GM's once the first, and second tier guys sign.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 4, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Pretty obvious signing someone like a TRAVIS OUTLAW only happens if we are very fortunate. I expect him to be off the market before we are willing to offer him a low-ball figure. I suspect the same type of offer to LIVINGSTON (which he should refuse)and any other big we may entertain as filler for the team. I believe you are currently looking at your 2010-11 WIZARDS ladies and gentlemen. No need to stop the process set in motion - stay miserably inept for the foreseeable future, draft high at least once more in 2011, let the core newbies and young vets get their feet wet as a club, mix in a FA here and there, and match players as necessary to create a solid team chemistry, and then begin a fairly rapid rise toward an NBA championship. I like it........if I live long enough, that is.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 4, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

What happened to Miller's supposed desire to play for a contender? Now he is turning away the Lakers for more money? Apparently he already has agreed verbally with the Knicks, given his friendship with Lebron, maybe he knows something we don't...

Posted by: divi3 | July 4, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone seen the blog owner recently?

Shouldn't he be throwing some comments out there every once in a while?

I'm just saying...

Posted by: ajedwardsjr | July 4, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

divi3:

We'll he sure ain't coming back here.......unless his tail is between his legs. And I for one sure wouldn't want him at that point. Definitely not enough to interest him, neither money or contention.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 4, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone seen the blog owner recently?

Shouldn't he be throwing some comments out there every once in a while?

I'm just saying...

Posted by: ajedwardsjr | July 4, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Welcome to the red-headed step-child of the WaPo. LEE's busy trying to get his ugly mug on t.v. as often as possible. He hasn't got time for a raggdy-azz blog. Outdated tech anyway. Why waste the time? Makes me wonder what I'm doing here. Later.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 4, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

So Steve Blake's a Laker. Congrats, Steve. Looks like Derek Fisher will be moving on...

Posted by: Samson151 | July 4, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

This is from several days ago.
Ernie Grunfeld Fan Forum

The aggressive sales pitch gets old quick, but I've never heard Ernie more candid.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 4, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Funny, when you listened to and read Ernie Grunfeld's comments about the team, he makes reference to improvements in areas such as defense etc. as-if he had nothing to do with the make-up and character of the team HE ASSEMBLED & dismantled.

Posted by: closg | July 4, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Happy 4th everyone!

Don't go blowing any fingers off...

;)

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 4, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

2010 Free Agency = WHATEVER

When it comes to big free agent signings, the only thing I'm interested in is:

"Kevin Durant in 2011"

Posted by: p1funk | July 4, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm a wizard's fan now living in tampa. So i did'nt see any of their game's in 2010. but i just seen some footage of Shawn Livingston on youtube. resign this kid asap. i loved him when he played for the clippers and have been hoping he would be able to make it back from that knee injury. so glad to see he did. this kid has no quit in him and that is the type of character guy's they need in their locker room.

Posted by: dakel76 | July 4, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

this kid has no quit in him and that is the type of character guy's they need in their locker room.

Posted by: dakel76 | July 4, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, but JOHNWALL almost certainly precludes LIVINGSTON's return. He wants to go somewhere he can start.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 4, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

does mike lee still work for the post? someone get this lazy bastard to work. dig up some "inside" info.

Posted by: the_shocker1 | July 5, 2010 12:32 AM | Report abuse

"Shawn Livingston on youtube. resign this kid asap. i loved him when he played for the clippers and have been hoping he would be able to make it back from that knee injury. so glad to see he did. this kid has no quit in him and that is the type of character guy's they need in their locker room.
Posted by: dakel76"

He's been star-crossed. A rare talent coming out of HS into the league. Surprised people by not coming along as fast as expected, and was just rounding into his game when the knee happened. Got cut by OKC (twice) and Miami before landing in DC -- the best chance he's had in years, and he took advantage of it. The real test was remaining healthy for 26 games at 26 minutes per -- that's what teams were watching for. Now he'll get his chance somewhere.

As a starter? That's not certain. You have a PG who in 18 starts took only 4 three point shots and made none of them (that's right, none of them). But he's never been an outside shooter; in his best year ('06-07'), he took only 16 and hit less than a third of those. For his career, he's at 18.8% from the arc. Even Rondo, Rose, and Tyreke Evans are better than that, and they're all better penetrators than Shawn is.

He has some defensive problems too, against the all those smaller, quicker guards, and you can't put him on the SG because he's usually not quick enough there, either.

With all the shuffling around that's going on in the NBA right now, he'll surely get a shot somewhere, but as a starter? I wouldn't count on it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 5, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

"Pretty obvious signing someone like a TRAVIS OUTLAW only happens if we are very fortunate. I expect him to be off the market before we are willing to offer him a low-ball figure. I suspect the same type of offer to LIVINGSTON (which he should refuse)and any other big we may entertain as filler for the team."

Again, the word is that Shawn isn't enthusiastic about staying in Washington and playing behind Wall and Gilbert and now Hinrich. He correctly assumes he's already gotten the most benefit he can out of playing in DC -- other clubs got to see he was healthy and could still perform at a high level. If he signs with the Wiz it would have to be because he didn't get any comparable offer.

Reminds me of the Roger Mason situation a couple seasons back. Roger went to a playoff club and got minutes he figured he might lose when Gilbert returned.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 5, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

cool! Thank's for the info.

Posted by: dakel76 | July 5, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

LIVINGSTON fit in well with the rag tag Wizzies of the 2nd half of last season. Will his game translate to a veteran team?? Maybe.
Yeah he has some short comings but he made smart plays & was effective with his mid range jumper & shot well from the FT line.
At times he was by far the best player on the floor (which ain't saying much).
I'd like to see him back but it seems unlikely. I will watch and see how he plays with another team if that happens.
He seems like the type of person that Ted talked about having on his team.

Posted by: VBFan | July 5, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"He'll never be a full-time PF, because he lacks the strength and the moves. but he has, in fact, played both forward positions for the Bulls.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 4, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse "

Yes, and AB has played center but no one will ever mistake him for a true center.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 5, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

"Yes, and AB has played center but no one will ever mistake him for a true center."

Again, so? No real relevance to my point. I never said Deng was a "true" PF. In fact, I specifically said he wasn't a "true" anything, SF or PF. That's one of the knocks against him. He doesn't play either position effectively enough at both ends to be a full-time impact player at SF or PF.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 6, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who thinks the current edition of the Wiz will win more than 30 games is delusional. The few mature vets who finished up the season with the Wizards such as Miller and Singleton will not be back with the team. Except for Agent Zero and Hinrich, no one on this team has any real experience. The young players such as Thornton, Yi, Young, McGee, and Blatche will get a chance to prove themselves but this is not a talented group.

Leonsis knows the team will be bad, really bad, for a couple of years and is banking on Wall to make the team at least watchable. Next year, the Wiz will be back in the lottery and hoping for another building block. It may be 3 years before the team is even back in playoff contention.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 6, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

It may be even longer than 3 years before this team contends. I'm disappointed in Leonsis. I thought he was the kind of owner who wanted to WIN!! I was totally wrong. He's gonna carry on the old system etched in stone by the previous owner--just keep the fans hoping for a good team. Promise them things will get better. Always make them look toward the future--don't focus on now. That way the team has no pressure to perform or to be any good. "We're rebuilding!" That way coach is under no pressure to win games. The GM is under no pressure to produce a winner. The owner doesn't get asked questions about why he isn't spending money to put this team in orbit with the Bostons, the LAs, the Miamis, or even the Jazz. Fact: You can always convince someone that it is NOT a good idea to spend money. Don't try to get good--being frugal, yeah, that's the better route. Let the fans just hope that 31-year old Rasual Butler will "develop" into Michael Jordan. Let the fans just hope Yi Jian Lian will become Yao Ming. Let the fans just hope.....they will buy tickets as long as they have this hope that things will be better in 2-3 years. Yes, we can make this Wiz franchise profitable just on the hope for the future!! Then we don't have to spend any big money on anyone. We can just put this subpar team on the floor each season--then point to the next season as the time to "make our move." I swear I thought Ted Leonsis was better than this. I thought he was better than maintaining the charade of or shadow of an NBA team simply to make money. I was wrong--dead wrong. He's a lot like frugal Abe was. Too much so. The curse of Les Boule lives on.

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | July 6, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

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