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Wizards conclude training camp; Gilbert Arenas, Kirk Hinrich injured

The Wizards concluded their first training camp at George Mason -- where they practiced at midnight and later in the dark -- with a 40-minute scrimmage that ended in exciting fashion. The white team, which featured John Wall, Kirk Hinrich, JaVale McGee, Andray Blatche and Al Thornton, defeated the black team, 80-78, as Thornton drove inside and nailed a fallaway jumper with 2.5 seconds remaining before falling on his backside.

The black team, led by training camp invitee Lester Hudson, led most of the game, and had a chance to win, but Nick Young missed a three-pointer from the left corner as time expired. Young had tied the game a few seconds earlier when he buried a three-pointer, then shouted toward the bench at assistant Sam Cassell, "What I tell you? I told you."


One thing I can do is finger roll. (By Joel Richardson/For the Washington Post)

The game revealed little, but enough, as the team prepares to make its preseason debut on Tuesday in Dallas. "I can't wait. Season here and it's going to be a great one, hopefully," Wall said. "I hope we do a good job. And preseason is going to be something to see, what our test is before the season starts."

Wall is likely to do something to make your jaw drop nearly every time he steps on the floor. He might be a rookie with no NBA experience, but he is in command out there, even if he gets a little wayward and tries to force things from time to time. But you can live with some of the mistakes when he makes plays like the ones he made in the scrimmage. The highlight of the game can be found at this link on the Wizards' Web site, at the 1:15 mark.

Yi Jianlian, with a cheering section of about 50 middle schoolers from Beijing applaudng his every move, looked great in pick-and-pop situations, as he rolled out to hit midrange jumpers with regularity and added a vicious dunk over JaVale McGee.

If Lester Hudson continues to play like he did on Sunday -- and pretty much all training camp -- he will be a tough player to cut, no matter how much depth the Wizards have in the backcourt. Hilton Armstrong is extremely active on both ends of the floor and looks like a guy more intent on setting up his teammates than finishing. And, Andray Blatche moved around pretty well for a player who has missed nearly three months of action.

Gilbert Arenas sat out of the scrimmage with a sprained right ankle and hasn't finished a practice since Thursday. Arenas sat most of the game, his head covered with a towel. Coach Flip Saunders said he wasn't sure if Arenas would be available for the preseason opener on Tuesday, which isn't the comeback story he probably was expecting to be written at this point.

Kirk Hinrich had a great camp and looked good playing alongside Wall in the backcourt early on Sunday but he was forced to miss the second half with a bruised right shoulder. Hinrich didn't talk afterward as he received treatment, but you don't want to see one of your most reliable players with a sling and a bag of ice on his shoulder. Sean Marks also missed practice for the third day in a row with a hamstring injury.

If there is one glaring weakness for the Wizards, it is their ability to control the boards. Despite their length and youthful energy, will have some problems rebounding against some the bigger, and better, teams in the NBA.

Saunders offered his thoughts on the team after training camp, without revealing too much. "What I thought we had is what we have. So what I learned was, what I thought we were, we are," he said. "Great energy, play hard, we have very good quickness, we have length. We've got to continue to work on rebounding. That's going to be a big key for us."

The Wizards don't have any players on their roster with a proven reputation as a rebounder, with the 7-foot Yi having the best single-season average at seven last season. They could improve when Blatche gets back into game shape, but they will likely need to rely on a team effort.

Saunders was asked whether the lack of rebounding would have any influence on roster cuts and replied, "Our rebounders are the guys that are all under contracts pretty much so that has no bearing."

JaVale McGee has been penciled in as the starter with the preseason underway, but Saunders wasn't ready to just hand him the job, as he singled out Armstrong. "Hilton Armstrong's had a really solid camp," he said. "He's actually played better than JaVale has through camp right now. We've got to get JaVale defensive rebounding right now. With him, we need more substance than style. He has a tendency - he's always been a style guy, and we got to get some substance out of that position."

When asked if Armstrong would be the starter, Saunders said, "That's what preseason is going to do. I don't decide who is going to play, the players tell me."

McGee said he has made a concerted effort to get better with defensive rebounding. "I feel like I'm doing better. I'm boxing out, trying to find bodies. If I'm not getting the rebound, I'm just making sure my man is not getting the rebound. That's what I'm trying to do," McGee said. "I just don't want anything for them to be like, 'Oh, he's not doing this. He's not doing that.' I'm doing every thing they say and try to throw my little stuff in, as long as I'm doing what they want me to do."

McGee added that he is also trying to keep it simple and stay solid, but "I still got a little bit of flash in me."

The Arenas situation gets more perplexing, mostly because he has been shielded from speaking since media day. Saunders has tried to gloss over Arenas's absence by focusing on the other players, but it just seems odd that Arenas missed practice Friday morning with "leg soreness" and Saunders didn't even know which ankle he had injured when talking to reporters the next day.

Saunders didn't seemed too concerned, and shrugged when asked if he was disappointed that he didn't have Arenas for the last few days of training camp. "It doesn't matter. Veteran guys are veteran guys, how they go about things," he said. "You know, Hinrich and Wall have probably been our two best players in camp overall. If we were to go today, those two guys would probably start because of how they performed in camp. When Gil's ready, he'll come back and get his legs under him."

Blatche had his moments in the scrimmage, as he had an impressive baseline drive around Yi and finished by dipping under the basket for a reverse dunk. But Saunders stayed on him, offering pointers whenever Blatche slipped up. Blatche found Al Thornton open in the corner for a three-pointer on one play, but when Blatche went one-on-one the next play, Saunders pulled Blatche aside and pointed out to him that Thornton was open again. Afterward, Blatche spotted Thornton, tapped his chest, and said, "My bad."

Although Blatche is working his way back from his foot injury, Saunders is going to keep pushing him. "We got to get him just playing at the same level as everybody else from the standpoint of making sure he's moving the ball and doing those things," Saunders said. "He had some stupid fouls. If you're going to be a main guy, and you're a going to be starter-type, you can't have stupid fouls, especially if you're a big guy because you have enough fouls to waste fighting for rebounds and everything else. You can't foul 50 feet from the basket, which he has a tendency to do sometimes."

By Michael Lee  | October 3, 2010; 7:35 PM ET
Categories:  Al Thornton, Andray Blatche, Gilbert Arenas, JaVale McGee, John Wall, Kirk Hinrich, Yi Jianlian, training camp/preseason  
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Comments

What is the interpretation on Flip Saunders comments relative to Hinrich and Wall being the starters if the season were to start now. I have always been amazed at how out of touch Saunders has been with starting second tier "fundametally sound" ballplayers that are role players on every other team i.e. Mike Miller, Oberto and now Hinrich. This is a league where winning teams have 3-4 All Star type players if they truly desire to be successful. John Wall, as good as he will possibly be has not played one regular season game, and is not the best player on this team (Arenas is). A lot of the stuff at the rim will go away for Wall just like it did for Jennings and he will only blossom as he develops a reliable mid range game. In the regular season you have to be able to pick and choose when you attack the rim or he wont last 10 games.

This chorus seemingly proffered by Michael Lee to question Arenas this early in training camp of a long long season is ridiculous. I hpe Saunders and the rest of the Gil haters don't fall for the okie doke because as decent a ballplayer as Hinrch is he is not in the same zip code as Arenas.

Posted by: NewManagement | October 3, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

You're wrong, New Management. Wall was the best player in the gym today at the Patriot Center, including Arenas and Howard. Arenas sat for much of the game with a towel draped over his head, hiding from the fans. What does this say about your man Gil?

I don't see Saunders dissing Gilbert. He's just stating the obvious. Heinrich has outplayed Arenas during training camp, and maybe Gil knows that.

Posted by: zinger1 | October 3, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Seems clear that Flip's plan is to begin with a 3 guard rotation. That way if Gilbert decides to stop playing defense, Hinrich can step in. Those guys can't learn to play together unless they get some minutes on the court in different combinations.

I don't put much weight on scrimmages. Wait til we see how various guys perform against people wearing another team's uniform.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 3, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

"I hpe Saunders and the rest of the Gil haters don't fall for the okie doke because as decent a ballplayer as Hinrch is he is not in the same zip code as Arenas.Posted by: NewManagement"

Actually, Arenas and Hinrich were in the same zip code the whole afternoon.

Notice how any criticism of Arenas, however mild, makes somebody a 'Gil hater'? Typical argument ad hominem: instead of answering the criticism, you slap a label on the critic.

Talk about the okie doke...

Posted by: Samson151 | October 3, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Well, the duh statement of the day is that Gilby is one injury prone player. INJURY PRONE!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | October 3, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

I'm interested to see how McGee does against Haywood/Chandler on Tuesday. A solid outing can allow him to separate from Armstrong a bit in Flip's eyes.

JaVale is never going to be a blood and guts practice player so his game performance will have to make the difference.

Posted by: elfreako | October 3, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

JaVale struggled with his breath much of the scrimmage, going for the inhaler time and again. I think the doc is going to have more say than the coach in how McGee develops. It's hard to be a blood and guts performer if you don't have air.

Posted by: zinger1 | October 3, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Please! You guys don't have a clue!

Posted by: zack5 | October 3, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and Gentlemen, DCMAN_88 in bold face type.

Posted by: WestCoastBullet | October 3, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

That last thread from Crit about the medical staff is just terrible. Do we still have the same med staff?

Hinrich and Gilbert are not in the same Zip Code. If Flip are anyoneelse is silly enough to believe that, this team won't win 25 games monkeying around with Hinrich playing over Gilbert for any reason.

And get real, do not believe for one second that Gilbert Arenas thought he should be trying to outplay Hinrich in TC. Why would that be a focus of his? Please.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 3, 2010 11:52 PM | Report abuse

"Hinrich and Gilbert are not in the same Zip Code."

Would you guys please find another metaphor?

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Whether Arenas or Hinrich is a better player is irrelevant. The only question that matters is which one is better suited to help the team win in a starting role. The answer to the two questions isn't automatically the same.

"We've got to get JaVale defensive rebounding right now. With him, we need more substance than style. He has a tendency - he's always been a style guy, and we got to get some substance out of that position."

The more things change . . .

Posted by: kalo_rama | October 4, 2010 1:56 AM | Report abuse

"We've got to get JaVale defensive rebounding right now. With him, we need more substance than style. He has a tendency - he's always been a style guy, and we got to get some substance out of that position."

The more things change . . .

Posted by: kalo_rama


He's 22 years old, working to get better and trying to accomplish what the coaches ask of him. Give him a chance and give it a rest.

Posted by: zxhoya | October 4, 2010 2:51 AM | Report abuse

McGee is a full year younger then Booker. Lets look at him as a rook and give him time. Blame EG for not getting a defensive big, that was his job.

Arenas needs to quit his ridiculous act and play ball. He might be the best ballplayer talentwise but if the team play suffers with him on the court, take him out. If team chemistry becomes a problem cause he's on the bench, ship him out. He needs to understand that he has little to no credit to f@ck it up.

Posted by: Pindajung | October 4, 2010 7:07 AM | Report abuse


Little boy Arenas is hiding the from the fans by draping a towel over his head. What a passive-aggressive nutcase!

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

Flip isn't stupid. Gil will be in there when it matters. Right now doesnt matter. I'd not read too much into the statements re: Gil right now.

I've been a JM supporter from day one but the fact is that he WILL struggle as a rebounder. Also, almost every team that I've ever seen that intended to rebound by committee has been a poor rebounding team. Great teams usually have one guy who is a very good rebounder.

I went back a few years and the last NBA Champ that didnt have a guy get at least 9 rpg was the '88 Lakers and they had Magic, Kareem, Worth, etc.
I realize we're not in the hunt for a championship but we have to find that guy who can get it done down low defensively on the boards.

Posted by: original_mark | October 4, 2010 8:08 AM | Report abuse

I guess certain people will be disappointed when Gil is outplaying Hinrich during the season, cause it is inevitable.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Little boy Arenas is hiding the from the fans by draping a towel over his head. What a passive-aggressive nutcase!

Posted by: ahwyatt

Or Gil has a f-ck you attitute towards YOU!

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

I've been wondering all summer what Arenas' new act would be this season. Osama bin Laden didn't occur to me, though.

Maybe he'll come out of his cave long enough to get traded.

And BTW "Gil-lovers"; Lee wouldn't have included that quote from Saunders (twice) about not knowing which leg was injured if it wasn't common knowledge around the camp that Arenas was already dogging it.

Posted by: KTV1 | October 4, 2010 8:31 AM | Report abuse

I have always been amazed at how out of touch Saunders has been with starting second tier "fundametally sound" ballplayers that are role players on every other team i.e. Mike Miller, Oberto and now Hinrich
Posted by: NewManagement

Um, which starting caliber player did Flip bench last year in favor of Mike Miller?

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

JaVale struggled with his breath much of the scrimmage, going for the inhaler time and again. I think the doc is going to have more say than the coach in how McGee develops. It's hard to be a blood and guts performer if you don't have air.
Posted by: zinger1

Taking an inhaler is new to him, so if he needs it that often, he's either a) taking it wrong -- as many people new to inhalers do, b) it's going to take him a while to learn when he needs to do it, or c) the new formula inhalers, which suck, suck even worse for someone who is 7 feet tall (not sure that factors in at all, just throwing it out there). I mean, he's so tall and long, that his lungs aren't even in the same zip code as the inhaler when he uses it.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

This is a strange thing to say, but I almost hope in some way that Gil's knee is bothering him and they're covering it a bit. If he's just sulking or depressed, to me, that's a worse sign. Of course if he is banged up, the towel could just be frustration from not being able to be there on the court.

But the 'explanations' of his lack of participation in practice definitely don't make coherent sense at this point.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

DCMAN88 is nothing but a Bold Faced Typer...

First of all I've never been one of the Gil haters on this site. I've taken more then my share of grief from some of the resident ones on this site. So now I'll climb up on my soapbox.

Leg soreness, sprained ankle, or what ever. Not a big concern for a veteran coming off of repeated knee problems.
Sitting around with a towel on his head, that's got to make you wonder.

Years ago Gil exploded onto the basketball court here in Washington with Wall like talent, but now we're left to wonder if he's going to self pity his way out of the league.

Gil needs to remember the NBA is a "for profit enterprise", and the folks who pay all the bills are the fans. Sitting around during fanfest, hurt or not, with a towel over his head is not what the fans want from their highest paid player.

I suspect Gil will decide to emerge from his shell once the lights come on, and he's just back to playing ball. When the crowds are bigger, it's really easier to ignore people.

But if this act continues into the season, Ted's got a tough decision to make, cause the franchise is going in a new direction and it doesn't need any of this kind of crap around. If Ted Leonsis is as smart as I think he is, he'll make the point to Gil that shunning fans isn't part of the job discription of the franchise's highest paid player. And he'll do it in person.

They can take his face off the side of the building, but Gil's got to remember he's still got fans. He may be upset with the media, but he shouldn't take it out on fans at fanfest. Those fans are the reason that he was worth so much money to the franchise in the first place, he loses them, then he truely isn't worth anything to the Wizards, or anybody else...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | October 4, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

McGee is a full year younger then Booker. Lets look at him as a rook and give him time.
Posted by: Pindajung

Does that mean after his first contract is up, we can continue to pay him on the rookie wage scale? Or will he want to be paid like a vet?

I have no problem with the fact that he was a bit of a project when they drafted him and he needs time to develop. But he's coming into his third year as a pro, so he's had plenty of time to figure out what that means in terms of working on his game and being a professional. So far, it looks like he has done some of the work, we'll just have to wait to see the results.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I have always been amazed at how out of touch Saunders has been with starting second tier "fundametally sound" ballplayers that are role players on every other team i.e. Mike Miller, Oberto and now Hinrich
Posted by: NewManagement

Um, which starting caliber player did Flip bench last year in favor of Mike Miller?

Posted by: ts35

Agreed!

I think Miller was a deserving starter, and was one of our best players for a stretch. Also, who said Hinrich would be starting once Arenas is ready?

Flip didn't start anybody in Detroit that was undeserving, but fundamentally sound either. Some people like to talk out their azz.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 8:54 AM | Report abuse


Little boy Arenas is hiding the from the fans by draping a towel over his head. What a passive-aggressive nutcase!

Posted by: ahwyatt

Or Gil has a f-ck you attitute towards YOU!

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 8:27 AM

I wasn't at Midnight Madness or Saturday's scrimmage. So he's hiding and saying f_ck you to all fans who have come to see the team play. Very mature attitude from our resident kook.

Btw, Arenas will outscore Hinrich. Pretty much guaranteed. But Arenas will rarely, if ever, outplay him because Hinrich plays both ends of the court. Arenas, not so much.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Not sure what to make of Gil's act, but I believe at this point last season Flip was saying NY was the best player...so I wouldnt put much stock in his comments. They're meant to motivate players, not explain to fans exactly what's going on with the team.

What I really dont want to see is this 3guard offense if the real basis for it is an obligation to get both KH and Gil big minutes. Come on. Let's put a 3 at the 3 spot please.

Great to hear AB looked very good.

Would love to hear something positive about Seraphin or Booker, but so far I havent come across anything stating either has been impressive at any point.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/10/bulls-noah-near-contract-extension.html

Bulls, Noah agree in principle on 5-year extension
"The exact amount of the extension is unknown but believed to be in the $60 million range total. Incentives can take the deal higher, and a source said the inclusion of these incentives represented the breakthrough in negotiations. "

Granted, at this point, Noah is a more 'accomplished' player, but it kinda makes the Blatche deal look even better to me. Noah's a better rebounder and defender, AB's much better on O. And both have had their knuckleheaded, immature moments. We get AB at essentially 4 for $28M, as opposed to 5 for $60M.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

florhtv, you hit it on the head. I was at the scrimmage yesterday, and I think Gil is grossly misreading public perception, and as a result, he is misdirecting his anger, resentment, cynicsm, or whatever it is. I believe that every fan there yesterday was and is ready to get behind him. We want to root for him, but if he's going to act like we're the problem, then screw him.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | October 4, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I think Miller was a deserving starter, and was one of our best players for a stretch.
Posted by: G-Man11

I wasn't even saying that, I'm just saying who was Flip supposed to start instead? It's not even about whether Miller was starting caliber or not (debatable), more about a paucity of choices for Flip. Not that I think Flip's rotation was always particularly astute, either.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure whether the criticism of the Wiz medical staff is legit -- being team docs for a pro club is something of a thankless job, since your patients always get second, third, and fourth opinions from their own specialists -- but Leonsis has the advantage of experience with the Caps' staff for comparison. We might see some changes there.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

divi, I was at the scrimmage. Seraphin is a load. He looks like a football player. He moves very well for his size, and he showed some good touch with a baby hook. However, he traveled several times while trying to position himself for putbacks. As far as Booker goes, I saw him play both the 3 and the 4. He got out on the break a couple of times and had at least one putback, but they are not running plays for him. I did hear that he showed off a good jumper in drills/3 on 3 before the scrimmage started.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | October 4, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

"Granted, at this point, Noah is a more 'accomplished' player, but it kinda makes the Blatche deal look even better to me. Noah's a better rebounder and defender, AB's much better on O. And both have had their knuckleheaded, immature moments. We get AB at essentially 4 for $28M, as opposed to 5 for $60M.Posted by: ts35"

Noah's stock seems to have zoomed upwards after last season, to the point where he's now considered a valuable commodity. I think getting into double-digit rebounds made the difference, showing teams he wasn't just a defender. I'm not sure he's the perennial All-Star type, however; there's still not much offense there.

You notice Boozer broke his hand and is out two months?

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 9:10 AM | Report abuse

flohrtv

A lot of fans turned on him. A lot of fans act like it is "personal". If you don't believe me, read any post you see from DC-Man.

Now I'll give it to DC-Man, because he has posted like that before the incident. But since the incident a lot of people have turned into haters. And it was all over a bad joke.

I knew Gil would have a f-ck you attitude, but I would too. It ain't about the media. It's about the fans. Gil is a guy that needs the fan appreciation/love. It was written that Gil had a positive reaction to a fan that joked with him. The problem is he doesn't know his true fans from the haters, so the fans suffer with the haters.

Most of these haters remind me of Don King, who jumped over the stretched out body of the fighter HE represented (Michael Dokes) to kiss up to the fighter who knocked his guy out. Or they remind me of the people who got there hang around you with their hand out when you rich, but are nowhere to be found when you are down and the money runs out.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:10 AM | Report abuse

"That last thread from Crit about the medical staff is just terrible. Do we still have the same med staff?

Hinrich and Gilbert are not in the same Zip Code. If Flip are anyoneelse is silly enough to believe that, this team won't win 25 games monkeying around with Hinrich playing over Gilbert for any reason.

And get real, do not believe for one second that Gilbert Arenas thought he should be trying to outplay Hinrich in TC. Why would that be a focus of his? Please.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 3, 2010 11:52 PM | Report abuse "

Please get over your illusion that Gilby is or can be the same player that he once was.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | October 4, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

It is an insult to Arenas to be seen in the same page with CH, most of it is his act and our premature conclusion.It is simple and straight, Arenas has to focus on his game unless he want to finish his 4 seasons on the bench.He is still looking for attention, the team oviously will be better with out him if there is any element of distruction from his side. He need to understand that he is no more important to the team.Even if he score 30 point a game and help the team to win 50 games for the season, he can not be a the man in washington. He has to work hardly, the right way to increase his value and get out of the situation he is in.

Posted by: gtefferra | October 4, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

thx for the Seraphin/Booker report, hopefully at least one of them (if not both) can contribute this season.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

"Gilbert Arenas sat out of the scrimmage with a sprained right ankle and hasn't finished a practice since Thursday. Arenas sat most of the game, his head covered with a towel. Coach Flip Saunders said he wasn't sure if Arenas would be available for the preseason opener on Tuesday..."

Just IMO, but my impression is that Gilbert is still pretty mad about the grief he got from the league and the team following that little altercation in the locker room and his subsequent performance in front of the Commish in Philadelphia. All sides are putting a brave face on the matter, but everyone knows they would have traded him if they had the chance, and Arenas might have welcomed a new start somewhere else.

BTW, wasn't he having some difficulties with his legs last season, right before the suspension? I seem to recall several stories about recurring pain in his knees.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

I think Miller was a deserving starter, and was one of our best players for a stretch.
Posted by: G-Man11

I wasn't even saying that, I'm just saying who was Flip supposed to start instead? It's not even about whether Miller was starting caliber or not (debatable), more about a paucity of choices for Flip. Not that I think Flip's rotation was always particularly astute, either.

Posted by: ts35

I thought Miller deserved to start last year on the Wizards. Now on another team...

The original poster lumped Miller and Oberto together which was unfair. Oberto contributed absolutely nothing. And that was what I was talking about. If you were responding differently, my bad, I misunderstood you, as like I said, I was agreeing with you.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

You're wrong, New Management. Wall was the best player in the gym today at the Patriot Center, including Arenas and Howard. Arenas sat for much of the game with a towel draped over his head, hiding from the fans. What does this say about your man Gil?

I don't see Saunders dissing Gilbert. He's just stating the obvious. Heinrich has outplayed Arenas during training camp, and maybe Gil knows that.

Posted by: zinger1 | October 3, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Gil did not play so you can't rationally draw that conclusion. Moreover, I have not seen any evidence of Heinrich ever outplaying Gil in camp or during the season. Scrimmages are like Summer League and are not indicators of the physicality or game that is required during the regular season. Unneccesaary forays at the rim will get you knocked on your butt during the regular season. The reality is no one on this squad can score at the end of the clock in the variety of ways that Arenas can. You don't have the option of playing 5 feet off him because you don't respect his jump shot.

Posted by: NewManagement | October 4, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

You notice Boozer broke his hand and is out two months?

Posted by: Samson151

Was just reading that. Ouch. Certainly didn't hurt Noah's negotiations I'm sure. Double-digit points and rebounds are also always a good prescription for a hefty contract (see Haywood, Brendan)

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

"It is an insult to Arenas to be seen in the same page with CH..."posted by gteferra

I want to thank for not mentioning zip codes.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

"Moreover, I have not seen any evidence of Heinrich ever outplaying Gil in camp or during the season."

But the question is which one of them plays better with Wall.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

@G-Man11

No worries, wasn't jumping on you, just trying to clarify what I was saying. Sounds like we're essentially saying the same thing. In the grand scheme, Miller may be a role player or borderline starter, but for either of the rosters the Wiz had last year, he 'deserved' to be a starter.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

"It is an insult to Arenas to be seen in the same page with CH..."

Although who is CH?

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Note to McGee about how to be a better defensive rebounder:
Don’t take off running as soon as opponent shoots the ball!

Posted by: sagaliba | October 4, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: NewManagement | October 4, 2010 9:17 AM

Saunders said that Wall and Hinrich have had the best camps. Why is that so hard to believe? As many have said before, it not 2007 anymore. Arenas is not the best player on the team; those days are thankfully over as it is hard to get beyond a certain level if your best player isn't a leader.

Maybe what's eating at Gil is the FACT that Wall is the man in terms of team marketing AND on his on-court play. Arenas can handle one but not both?

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Arenas doesnt want to be here, why would he? He's not playing for another contract, he is set as one of the game's highest paid and nothing will change that. It's all about playing basketball now....and there's really no reason he'd want to do it here. No excuses for him, but the position he finds himself in lends itself to weird dynamics like yesterday. HE was center of fan days and all that stuff, now some PR guy probably tells him to let Wall have the show. Just odd all the way around.

Hopefully the actual grind of the season and 41 games away from Verizon will offer a solution

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Also interesting to note that Saunders was barking at AB yesterday when it sounds as if Dray was better than anybody on the floor other than Wall. Hopefully the extension is also a sign both guys (AB and Flip) have fully bought into each other and that AB will be held to a very high standard and wants it that way.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

BTW, wasn't he having some difficulties with his legs last season, right before the suspension? I seem to recall several stories about recurring pain in his knees.
Posted by: Samson151

Admitting that I know next to nothing about the specifics of Gil's injuries, I will just say that I would be surprised if he didn't have pain / more frequent tendonitis / etc. going forward. I say that from my own little window of knee surgery. But I'm neither a world-class athlete with access to trainers like Tim Grover, nor pounding up and down the hard court every day. So accept that for what it is.

But for me, my knee just periodically gets a little loose, which means it hurts, swells, etc, which also means I start to favor the other leg, which then tends to swell, hurt, etc. Ice, etc, helps, but usually only a period of rest really clears it up.

So I'm totally willing to believe that his knee is balky right now, and totally willing to believe that either he's not telling them that, or they don't want to tell us that.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Mike Miller got a lot of grief around here last year, mostly for not being a primary scorer. Certainly he seemed reluctant to take the 3 pointers that he once made a living from. Probably trying to maintain his FG% to attract a prospective new employer. A bit selfish, but on that team, who's going to notice?

A better eval of Miller's value in the NBA is reflected in the attention he drew almost immediately on the FA market. Not just from the Heat -- the Celts and Orlando were interested, among several teams.

Foye signed with the Clips, a team that many expect to be significantly better this season, with Griffin back and improvement from Eric Gordon. Their first rounder Aminu could take some time to develop, however.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse


HE was center of fan days and all that stuff, now some PR guy probably tells him to let Wall have the show. Just odd all the way around.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 9:30 AM

Yeah, right. Some PR guy tells him to ignore the fans and put a towel over his head. Hilarious.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I think last season Arenas had that calf issue...the one before the Miami game where he wasn't going to play but played and had like 10+ turnovers.

One thing I liked that I saw yesterday. JaVale got an offensive rebound. Went back up strong got bumped and made the basket.

Last season he would've been knocked into the basket support.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | October 4, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: NewManagement | October 4, 2010 9:17 AM

Saunders said that Wall and Hinrich have had the best camps. Why is that so hard to believe? As many have said before, it not 2007 anymore. Arenas is not the best player on the team; those days are thankfully over as it is hard to get beyond a certain level if your best player isn't a leader.

Posted by: ahwyatt

Is it 2007 for Hinrich, because during the 2009/2010 season in Chicago, Hinrich was below average.

Hinrich couldn't touch Gil in 2007, and he can't touch Gil in 2010. Both are not the same player, both changed positions. What is it that makes you think Gil has lost and Hinrich hasn't? Gil averaged what last year? What did Hinrich do? Remind me.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"DCMAN88 is nothing but a Bold Faced Typer...

First of all I've never been one of the Gil haters on this site. I've taken more then my share of grief from some of the resident ones on this site. So now I'll climb up on my soapbox.

Leg soreness, sprained ankle, or what ever. Not a big concern for a veteran coming off of repeated knee problems.
Sitting around with a towel on his head, that's got to make you wonder.

Years ago Gil exploded onto the basketball court here in Washington with Wall like talent, but now we're left to wonder if he's going to self pity his way out of the league.

Gil needs to remember the NBA is a "for profit enterprise", and the folks who pay all the bills are the fans. Sitting around during fanfest, hurt or not, with a towel over his head is not what the fans want from their highest paid player.

I suspect Gil will decide to emerge from his shell once the lights come on, and he's just back to playing ball. When the crowds are bigger, it's really easier to ignore people.

But if this act continues into the season, Ted's got a tough decision to make, cause the franchise is going in a new direction and it doesn't need any of this kind of crap around. If Ted Leonsis is as smart as I think he is, he'll make the point to Gil that shunning fans isn't part of the job discription of the franchise's highest paid player. And he'll do it in person.

They can take his face off the side of the building, but Gil's got to remember he's still got fans. He may be upset with the media, but he shouldn't take it out on fans at fanfest. Those fans are the reason that he was worth so much money to the franchise in the first place, he loses them, then he truely isn't worth anything to the Wizards, or anybody else...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | October 4, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse "

Gilby was not at the level JWow is coming out of college.

These two are vastly different players with different attitudes. JWow is more of a pure point guard who can score AND play defense. Gilby is just a pure scorer.

What Gilby will need to overcome is his ego that he can be the same player that he once was. He's going to need to realize that those days are way behind him. He's going to need to evolve his game, but now at the 2, that can't happen as easily. He's not big enough to be a guy who's going to speed around screens like Ray Allen, and he's not going to suddenly become a lock down defender.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Once Gilby loses his quickness, which comes after multiple knee surgeries and other ailments, then he's going to become an even more predictable player that can be stopped at his game. You're not going to see him rack up 35-40 min/game anymore.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | October 4, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Also interesting to note that Saunders was barking at AB yesterday when it sounds as if Dray was better than anybody on the floor other than Wall. Hopefully the extension is also a sign both guys (AB and Flip) have fully bought into each other and that AB will be held to a very high standard and wants it that way.
Posted by: divi3

It actually didn't sound like Dray was better than anybody other than Wall, just that he played well.

To me, granted still early, it does sound more or less like Flip and AB are on the same page. Flip's essentially saying, if you are going to be a starter and someone we rely on -- which we are expecting you to be - here's the things we need you to do to take it to that level (or beyond).

In other words, between the contract and the way Flip has indicated he views him, they've given AB the respect of a starter, and are now expecting to fulfill the responsibilities of one. For his part, so far, it looks like AB has taken it to heart. That little blurb says to me that now that they see him as he sees himself, he's willing to take the criticism that comes along with being viewed at that level. I'm good with that, from both sides.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

If you go by who had the best camp, Yi would be starting over Blatche.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Gilby is playing another mind game again. Just like last season, where he said he was done with Agent Zero, but then revived his schtick b/c he said he had to be goofy again in order to be productive. We all know how that turned out. If he followed the "good b0y" script, none of the press would be interested anymore.

This team is moving in a different direction and does not need these kind of distractions or nonsense.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | October 4, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"He's 22 years old, working to get better and trying to accomplish what the coaches ask of him. Give him a chance and give it a rest."

Pro sports is about results not intentions. If all of his "working" and "trying" fails to produce results, what good is it? He'll get his "chance" because, as Saunders said, they don't have any better options. But the fact that, heading into his third season, he still seems to be struggling to grasp one of the fundamental basics of his job is a legit cause for concern and target for criticism.

"McGee is a full year younger then Booker. Lets look at him as a rook and give him time."

Or, better still, let's look at him like a 3rd year pro (which is what he is) who's 7+ feet tall (which he is) with a 7' 6" wingspan (which he has) who shouldn't still need to be taught how to rebound the ball (which, apparently, he does).

Posted by: kalo_rama | October 4, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

A better eval of Miller's value in the NBA is reflected in the attention he drew almost immediately on the FA market. Not just from the Heat -- the Celts and Orlando were interested, among several teams.

Foye signed with the Clips, a team that many expect to be significantly better this season, with Griffin back and improvement from Eric Gordon. Their first rounder Aminu could take some time to develop, however.

Posted by: Samson151

Both guys were signed by those teams to do essentially what EG acquired them for to do here, be complimentary players, i.e. role players or borderline / some time starters. Teams wanted Miller to primarily hit open shots and also do some of the other things he does -- like being willing and able to pass the ball to the star players. Foye got picked up as a swing guard behind Baron Davis and Eric Gordon. Though I think he'll get squeezed out there eventually by Bledsoe and Willie Warren.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

"Granted, at this point, Noah is a more 'accomplished' player, but it kinda makes the Blatche deal look even better to me. Noah's a better rebounder and defender, AB's much better on O. And both have had their knuckleheaded, immature moments. We get AB at essentially 4 for $28M, as opposed to 5 for $60M."

That's because Noah turns FA next year, while Blatche got one more year to go in his previous contract.

Besides, don't know how you get 4 for $28M. It is 5 for $35M, or additional 3 (not 4) yrs for additional $28M.

Posted by: sagaliba | October 4, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

It actually didn't sound like Dray was better than anybody other than Wall, just that he played well.

To me, granted still early, it does sound more or less like Flip and AB are on the same page. Flip's essentially saying, if you are going to be a starter and someone we rely on -- which we are expecting you to be - here's the things we need you to do to take it to that level (or beyond).

In other words, between the contract and the way Flip has indicated he views him, they've given AB the respect of a starter, and are now expecting to fulfill the responsibilities of one. For his part, so far, it looks like AB has taken it to heart. That little blurb says to me that now that they see him as he sees himself, he's willing to take the criticism that comes along with being viewed at that level. I'm good with that, from both sides.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 9:44 AM

I though the part about scoring 8 straight points and abusing Yi sounded better than what was written about anyone other than Wall, but that's just me.

Someone on another site pointed out that Flip still refers to ABs miscues as "stupid" in front of the media without offering any praise to counter it. That's Flip's portion of what got them to loggerheads last season, hopefully we dont see a repeat when times get tough as they obviously will

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Hinrich couldn't touch Gil in 2007, and he can't touch Gil in 2010. Both are not the same player, both changed positions. What is it that makes you think Gil has lost and Hinrich hasn't? Gil averaged what last year? What did Hinrich do? Remind me.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:42 AM

Hinrich hasn't had multiple knee surgeries since 2007. That simple enough?

What did Gil average last year? 41% Fg shooting as the guy who shot more than everybody else (which makes him a horrible first option) and 3.7 turnovers per game (which makes him a subpar PG with an assist-to-turnover ratio of less than 2:1).

What did Hinrich do? Everything. He dished (a superb 3:1 assist-to-turnover ratio), he took fewer shots than Arenas (while shooting better from 3-pt land), displayed leadership and he played defense.

It's not 2007 anymore. Consider yourself reminded.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"Mike Miller got a lot of grief around here last year, mostly for not being a primary scorer. Certainly he seemed reluctant to take the 3 pointers that he once made a living from. Probably trying to maintain his FG% to attract a prospective new employer. A bit selfish, but on that team, who's going to notice?"

Funny you say that now, but not while it appeared to be happening last season! I'd say a guy getting paid $10mill who is not taking shots so as to secure his next deal is somebody who deserved a helping of fan ire.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Besides, don't know how you get 4 for $28M. It is 5 for $35M, or additional 3 (not 4) yrs for additional $28M.

Posted by: sagaliba

Aaaaand that makes a difference to the overall point, how? $7M of that $35M they owed him regardless, and they locked AB up for a similar length of time for essentially half of what Noah got.

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

If you go by who had the best camp, Yi would be starting over Blatche.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:45 AM

Based on what? Everything I've read has said that Yi has either looked rusty or his shot has been flat.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

"Granted, at this point, Noah is a more 'accomplished' player, but it kinda makes the Blatche deal look even better to me. Noah's a better rebounder and defender, AB's much better on O. And both have had their knuckleheaded, immature moments. We get AB at essentially 4 for $28M, as opposed to 5 for $60M."

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 8:58 AM

They didn't "get AB at essentially 4 for $28M." His new deal is basically a 3-year/$28 mill extension added onto the two guaranteed years he was already under contract for.

And context matters. By pretty much all accounts, last season was the year Noah grew up and took on something of a leadership role on a young Bulls team. Down the stretch of last season, Blatch was still publicly complaining about PT and his salary. Also, over the last two years, Noah's shown himself capable of making big contributions on a playoff caliber squad. So while the Bulls are banking on his potential, they've also seen him pay tangible dividends in his expected role. Blatche put up nice numbers in a situation that (hopefully) won't be analogous to this year's situation in any significant way. All things considered, the Wiz are still taking a bigger gamble than the Bulls.

Posted by: kalo_rama | October 4, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

All things considered, the Wiz are still taking a bigger gamble than the Bulls.

Posted by: kalo_rama | October 4, 2010 10:06 AM

Only in your mind. Noah has had a ton of attitude problems and nobody would be shocked if he did something stupid again. Wiz got a more highly skilled player for significantly less money.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

With McGee still struggling to adjust to an inhaler we could see more of Yi and Armstrong then many of us thought when they were signed.

McGee could end up being a guy that Flip has to adjust to using in spurts. He may have difficulty playing starter like minutes and might be more of a 20-25 minute a night guy. It could take him some time to find a comfort level with his medication and the night after night grind of the NBA.

Didn't make fanfest myself, but I heard that both Armstrong and Yi looked pretty good. If Yi would start to play to the vast potential that he's displayed in little spurts, his pickup could be a real bargain.

Armstrong might be fundamentally the best big man out there. He doesn't have near the talent of the other guys but I'm hearing that he plays the game the right way and gets himself in the right position.

Sounds like he's playing himself into a rotation role, the big benefit there will be that Seraphin won't be thrust onto the court too soon. Like having Oberto last year, sometimes it's better to have a guy that is sound fundamentally out there on the court then a more talented player that is clueless.

With all of the coaching that McGee has recieved over the last couple of years he seems to at least know what he's got to work on. There aren't many basketball people who project him to be a bust now. They do seem divided however on when he becomes an impact player. Some think now, some say he's still a year or two away. I'd tend to think he's got a ways to go yet. He's got to show he can make the leap into being a regular rotation guy before we start throwing around terms like Allstar.

I'd expect we will see a similar growth curve Seraphin, it will probably be 2012 before we know how he'll work out...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | October 4, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I though the part about scoring 8 straight points and abusing Yi sounded better than what was written about anyone other than Wall, but that's just me.
Posted by: divi3

Which article was that in?

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

AB was not the best player on the court besides Wall. Forget what it SOUNDED like. If anything Yi looked as good or better than AB. He was knocking down jumpers like crazy...and showed some athleticism. AB looked good. There were definitely more memorable performances though.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | October 4, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

"Noah has had a ton of attitude problems and nobody would be shocked if he did something stupid again."

But they'd be stunned if Blatche did, right? Please.

And the "ton of attitude problems" is a huge exaggeration. He's had a few of run-ins with teammates (notably Ben Wallace) and coaches, none of which occurred last season. He drew pretty widespread praise for his attitude and work ethic over the course of the season, as opposed to Blatche who was still getting eye rolls with all of his preseason "new leaf" talk and was still acting like a diva when the end of the season was rolling around.

In any case, none of that has much to do with why the Wizards are taking a bigger gamble. The fact is that while the Bulls are paying more money, they also have a much stronger idea of what they're paying for and what kind of impact it can have for them.

"Wiz got a more highly skilled player for significantly less money."

"More highly skilled" doesn't automatically translate to better fit, more productive, or bigger impactt.

Posted by: kalo_rama | October 4, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

ts35,

Didn't say that was the reason. The reason was stated on the previous sentence already, i.e., AB had one more yr to go, hence less leverage. I do agree with you, AB's contract looks better to the team than Noah's.

Posted by: sagaliba | October 4, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Which article was that in?

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 10:17 AM

from Mike Lee

"Andray Blatche scores 8 straight pts, ends run with steal & Karl Malone-hand-behind-head dunk. Tie game, 69 up.

Dray had just flashbacks to when he roasted Yi in NJ last season. Baseline drive & jam to get crowd going."

and regardless, the point is not whether AB was the 2nd best player or 3rd, more that it's very encouraging to hear he played well just back from months out

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"In any case, none of that has much to do with why the Wizards are taking a bigger gamble. The fact is that while the Bulls are paying more money, they also have a much stronger idea of what they're paying for and what kind of impact it can have for them. "

Your disdain of Blatche has clouded your reasoning to the point you are calling $35mill a bigger gamble than $60mill.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Hinrich couldn't touch Gil in 2007, and he can't touch Gil in 2010. Both are not the same player, both changed positions. What is it that makes you think Gil has lost and Hinrich hasn't? Gil averaged what last year? What did Hinrich do? Remind me.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:42 AM

Hinrich hasn't had multiple knee surgeries since 2007. That simple enough?

What did Gil average last year? 41% Fg shooting as the guy who shot more than everybody else (which makes him a horrible first option) and 3.7 turnovers per game (which makes him a subpar PG with an assist-to-turnover ratio of less than 2:1).

What did Hinrich do? Everything. He dished (a superb 3:1 assist-to-turnover ratio), he took fewer shots than Arenas (while shooting better from 3-pt land), displayed leadership and he played defense.

It's not 2007 anymore. Consider yourself reminded.

Posted by: ahwyatt

22 and 7, and getting better, in a new system, after starting the season rusty from injury related time off. Yes, Gil's numbers were on an upward curve, which ended at 22 and 7, Top 10 at the point, ranked 42nd best player in the NBA, whereas Hinrich ranked #131. These rankings are based on efficiency of about 10 categories, not 2.

Remind that. Admit the obvious! Like they were saying in Chicago, Hinrich ain't the same EITHER. Don't lie to yourself

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"Your disdain of Blatche has clouded your reasoning to the point you are calling $35mill a bigger gamble than $60mill."

Here, here, but I am not surprised.

Posted by: sagaliba | October 4, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

If you go by who had the best camp, Yi would be starting over Blatche.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 9:45 AM

Based on what? Everything I've read has said that Yi has either looked rusty or his shot has been flat.

Posted by: ahwyatt

Because Blatche has barely participated in camp. Is what I was saying. As in Flip saying who would start based on who was having the better camp.

Are you one of those that only remember the negative? Did you not see the following from above?

"Yi Jianlian..., looked great in pick-and-pop situations, as he rolled out to hit midrange jumpers with regularity and added a vicious dunk over JaVale McGee"

No, I am not advocating Yi starting over Blatche, as my original statement was meant as "tongue-in-cheek", but you can't say Blatche had a better camp than Yi without losing credibility.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

All things considered, the Wiz are still taking a bigger gamble than the Bulls.
Posted by: kalo_rama

From purely a player perspective, I agree with that, but the Wiz are doing it at half the cost. If AB produces numbers close to his post-blowup numbers (20 and 8), it will be a great deal for the Wiz. If he doesn't, his contract doesn't tie them up, even if the NBA moves to a hard(er) cap.

Blatche was still publicly complaining about PT and his salary. Also, over the last two years, Noah's shown himself capable of making big contributions on a playoff caliber squad.

I remember AB talking about his salary once, in response to a question. I don't remember his complaining about his PT (not saying it didn't happen, just not recalling it). I do remember him being sulky and petulant, though. Meanwhile, with Noah, it's worthwhile to note that big-time playoff production is not mutually exclusive with knuckleheadedness, as Wizards fans are acutely aware.

The following link attached for purely prejudicial and comedic value:

http://deadspin.com/5593631/joakim-noah-spotted-in-his-natural-habitat-shopping-for-bongs

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

"Funny you say that now, but not while it appeared to be happening last season! posted by divi3"

I don't actually know why Miller seemed reluctant to take shots near season's end. Just speculating, like you. He may have had some other reason. I don't know any more than you do -- so we're both talking out of our hats here.

"I'd say a guy getting paid $10mill who is not taking shots so as to secure his next deal is somebody who deserved a helping of fan ire.Posted by: divi3"

I thought it was nine million. Besides, ire is more your thing.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"Your disdain of Blatche has clouded your reasoning to the point you are calling $35mill a bigger gamble than $60mill."

Here, here, but I am not surprised.

Posted by: sagaliba

Whether they admit it or not, it is a cultural thing. Some people without the same advantages as others, will be behind the "curve" maturity-wise and in other areas as well. Then people who had cultural advantages, look down on those who don't progress like THEY think they should.

Sure Blatche is not as mature as Noah, but Blatche is from a different environment. In that environment, he is normal/average maturity-wise. That is not an excuse, that is reality.

The question is whether Noah at $60m is and 4 years of college under his belt, with a hustle style of play, is less of a gamble than Blatche and his $35M straight out of high school, with a better all around game, but immature label.

I think Blatche is the lesser gamble and higher ceiling. How much does Blatche need to do to show that he is maturing? To please people from a certain culture, he will never be able to please them.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Sure Blatche is not as mature as Noah, but Blatche is from a different environment. In that environment, he is normal/average maturity-wise. That is not an excuse, that is reality.
Posted by: G-Man11

Um, Noah grew up with a celebrity father and mother (somewhat), in that environment. Since when is that an instant recipe for maturity?

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse


No, I am not advocating Yi starting over Blatche, as my original statement was meant as "tongue-in-cheek", but you can't say Blatche had a better camp than Yi without losing credibility.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 10:56 AM

Of course I never claimed that Blatche did, but whatever floats your boat.

Btw, Flip's comments above were relevant to Yi's play in the scrimmage. He wasn't summarizing Yi's play for the whole training camp. So again, who said Yi has had a better training camp than Blatche?

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse


Remind that. Admit the obvious! Like they were saying in Chicago, Hinrich ain't the same EITHER. Don't lie to yourself

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 10:48 AM

Who in Chicago was saying that Hinrich ain't the same? Link please.

How did Gil measure on defense in this ranking you were looking at?

Gil is a sloppy ballhandler who now lacks explosion to go along with his poor shot selection. A lower than 2:1 assist-to-turnover ratio coupled with a low FG percentage while playing matador defense is a killer. Bullets in the gun or not.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I thought it was nine million. Besides, ire is more your thing.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 4, 2010 11:02 AM

Based on some of your recent posts, I thought Gil had drawn guns on you!

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

the fact that Blatche has been held out of practicing is what I meant. So yes, Yi has had a better camp unless you want to say he was in the negative area on a camp-scale cause Blatche had been on a basically zero until the last day or so.

Anyway it ain't that big a deal.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

The following link attached for purely prejudicial and comedic value:

http://deadspin.com/5593631/joakim-noah-spotted-in-his-natural-habitat-shopping-for-bongs

Posted by: ts35 | October 4, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

great stuff. i got Joakim going broke on doritos ramen noodles and mountain dew

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 4, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Who in Chicago was saying that Hinrich ain't the same? Link please.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I got no link, but I'd guess that the coaches and management in CHI don't think they get the same value from him, otherwise they wouldn't have traded him. It's not like they traded him straight up for first round pick (his value in when he was drafted). Of course he's dropped off that's why we got him off the scrap heap (almost). There also should be very little doubt in anyone's mind that Gil is a better basketball player than Kirk. 22 and 7 last season on a bum leg, let's see how it goes this year.


Also get off Gil's back about his demeanor. He's acting how he acts and that's it. Yall go out to fan day and bich and moan about a guy who didn't participate. Telling folks that Wall is the face of the franchise means we can stop excpecting Gil to be who he was when he was trying to be the face of the franchise. Half of yall don't even think he can play anymore, so watch the other guys and treat Gil like he treats us. I doubt he'll care.

And all of you who think his anger or surliness is misdirected, try to remember how this blog was around the holidays last year and into the offseason. A lot of folks had very strong opinions against Gil for the gun deal. I'd say the prevailing fan sentiment last year was one of extreme disappointment and even anger towards Gil. Just last week I was arguing on here with a cat who wanted to talk about what Gil owed the fans. You guys think he didn't catch wind of any of those fan polls? Any of that trade Gil talk?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 4, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 4, 2010 12:27 PM"

Chicago got rid of Hinrich because they had a better player in Rose. It's the same reason Arenas lost his job as starting point guard. The Wizards got a better player in Wall.

It appears that you're saying that Gil's anger toward fans who have done him no harm is justified. It's no more justified than the anger that people directed at him when he'd done them no harm, the anger that you've long felt was misdirected and misguided. What makes it right for one and wrong for another?

From what I've read, he hasn't had any negative fan reaction since training camp started. If anything the fans are trying to embrace him. However, I do agree with you that the fans should treat him the way he treats them. Ultimately, maybe they will.

Posted by: ahwyatt | October 4, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Gil don't owe anybody anything. He has paid his debt to society. If he don't want to talk, that is up to him. If he wants to where a hoodie, what business is it of anybody.

You want to complain about he needs to grow up or things of that nature, but y'all don't want Gil to be Gil, so like he is doing, f--k y'all.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

@Gman,

Personally, I don't think Gil's ever said or done anything where people should be hanging on his every word anyway.
If he's doing this out of hatred for fans, it's HIS problem. Remember - anger is like a parasite. It feeds on the host.
We'll find out soon enough what the "new Gil" is all about. In the meantime, F him and how's his jumper lookin'? ;-)

Posted by: 2020doc | October 4, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I agree Gil has paid his debt. I don't even know why we still bring this up. He more than paid for his lack of judgement.

Having said that, like I've been saying it's time for both parties to move on except there are no takers for Gil at this time with that contract.

So he is a Wizard and I hope he has the best season of his career.

But we can do without him not trying to be a distraction, because by him not trying to be a distraction, he is a distraction.

See, that's why he need's to be playing in another zip code and then he and Kirk truely will not be in the same zip code.lol

Interested to see how McGee does against BTH tomorrow night..

Go Wiz

Posted by: kevenjones | October 4, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

& For the record lilhollywood, I will tell everyone on the blog that I was ANGRY with Gil because I purchased season tickets with the intent that Gil and every player on the roster for that matter, would be professionals at the very least and give me value for my financial committment.

And Gil basically cheated me 3 years in a row, that with his botched rehabs and then with foolishness..

But that's the difference between players on Gils level and the elite players..They never cheat the fans..See Kobe,MJ,Bird,etc...

So no need to try and defend Gil because he is responsible for the backlash he is getting. Gil and himself alone...

Posted by: kevenjones | October 4, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I dont think Arenas deserves blame for being injured.

Obviously he's 110% responsible for the "incident" and its aftermath.

But as a season ticket holder, I enjoyed (or maybe that's "enjoyed") watching the post-trade team more than I would have watching the supposed 3 losing games nightly on their way to nowhere.

Posted by: divi3 | October 4, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I hope flip flop doesn't put AB of Yi at the 5. It'll be a waste of their talents and they'll be heading straight to the bench for foul trouble. I'd say JaTravel starts and Marriott backs him up.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | October 4, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

@divi3,

Agreed. But he botched his rehab twice.. So that's where I place the blame.

And I also loved the post trade team until Josh got hurt...

Just saying everybody talking about Gil don't owe the fans is wrong. Gil and the whole team owe's it to the fans to be professional and give an honest effort night in and night out.

Posted by: kevenjones | October 4, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

KJ

You mentioned Kobe. Is that the same Kobe who was bought his wife a huge ring trying to get back in her good graces after he tried to stick his thing up that girl's tail in Colorado? Is that the professionalism you condone, and then condemn Gil over a joke over guns and zero bullets?

Do you have any animosity for the organization? The organization of which the training staff/doctors or whatever you want to call them, whose alleged ineptness led to him trying to go a different route in re-habbing his OWN knee? Cause see Critt is saying the same things regarding his injury.

You act like Gil was purposely trying to sabotage his knee and career. Cause think about it, people around here, and probably you included, fault the Wizards for signing Gil to that huge contract, while he was injured. Then you turn around and purchase season tickets WHEN Gil is injured. I guess you should be mad at yourself.

But it was a bad joke. The judge recognized it. But guess what, you ain't got to buy no more tickets. You can be angry all you want, but in the end, Gil will still be a wizard and it don't matter how long you hold it against Gil over a bad joke.

So now we got Gil being angry at some of the fans and some of the fans being angry at Gil. Will any of them be the better man?

I don't understand why people want Gil to be fake with them. He ain't got to like y'all and y'all aint got to like him. As long as he plays, it don't matter.

Just don't be dumb enough to buy tickets.

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse


You mentioned Kobe. Is that the same Kobe who was bought his wife a huge ring trying to get back in her good graces after he tried to stick his thing up that girl's tail in Colorado? Is that the professionalism you condone, and then condemn Gil over a joke over guns and zero bullets?

Posted by: G-Man11 | October 4, 2010 2:43 PM

I personally condone the professional that doesn't result in a perfectly healthy Gil (for the first time in years) throwing a season away with foolishness. You can't minimize that.

Kobe was accused of rape, said he was innocent and was found not guilty. If you want to hate Kobe for adultery, then you better get ready to hate most professional athletes.

And let's not get it twisted: Gil was accused of felony gun charges and said he was guilty.

I think most people are willing to give him a chance to show that he can play ball again without the dumb sideshow stuff.

Posted by: and_1 | October 4, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"professionalism"

Posted by: and_1 | October 4, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

@G-Man11,

Only thing I agree with in your last post was "Just don't be dumb enough to buy tickets." ..lol

I don't want to start a thread about last year's incidient and I really wasn't thinking about that when I typed my comment.

I was more so talking about the incidient that led to his injury, you remember he was late so he didn't start and that's the game he as injured in, and the way he underminded Coach Jordan, and all the other silly sh** he has done...

You may not be able to tell but I was a HUGE Arenas fan. Got(well had) the fat head on the wall at home, and other Arenas memoribilia I invested in. So forgive me if I'm disappointed and feel slighted...

And we will never know if the team was right because Gil took his rehab into his own hands and well we know that didn't work!

Later Bro..

Posted by: kevenjones | October 4, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

And yeah that was the Kobe I was referring to. :)

Posted by: kevenjones | October 4, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

his botched rehabs? Sure he WANTED to have more surgery! That's it!

Kobe was not found not guilty. He bought his way out of that trial...I'm sure Gil would've done the same if he could.

And have a rape trial and being jetted back and forth just in time for games...sure...that's not a distraction AT ALL.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | October 4, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

@SDMDTSU,

Couldn't have been too much of a distraction because the Lakers lost only 26 games, finished 1st in the pacific, went to the NBA finals and lost to the Pistons.. So yeah not much of a distraction..what u think??

Not saying Gil wanted to have more surgery but everbody knows he botched his rehabs..He basically has admitted to this himself, so get off his nutzz...

Posted by: kevenjones | October 4, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

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