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John Wall expected to play, Gilbert Arenas likely to sit against 76ers as both deal with ankle injuries

The right ankles of the Wizards' two best players kept them sidelined for part of Monday's practice and are expected to keep at least one of them out of the home opener against Philadelphia.

John Wall emerged from the locker room wearing a protective walking boot on his right ankle, which he sprained in the third quarter of the Wizards' 99-95 loss to the Atlanta Hawks on Saturday. But both Wall and Coach Flip Saunders said that they plan for him to be ready for the 76ers.

"I would expect that he'll be okay," Saunders said.

"I feel the same way," Wall said.

Gilbert Arenas participated in drills on Monday, but he planned on having a follow up MRI later in the afternoon on the strained tendon in his right ankle. Arenas visited with foot-and-ankle specialist Mark Myerson in Baltimore last week and has missed the first two games of the regular season. He will be listed as a game-time decision, but Saunders all but ruled out the possibility of having him available.

"I say it's very unlikely he's going to play," Saunders said about Arenas. "I would say from a standpoint that he's done a few things, but not many. So I don't think he's going to play. Same line is, you'll know 10 minutes before the game."

Wall said he rolled his ankle after driving and kicking out to Yi Jianlian near the end of the third period. He tried to run it out but felt it getting worse sitting on the bench before the final quarter. "I knew it at that moment, that's why I ran to half court and tried to get away," Wall said. "When I got to the bench, I tightened my shoe up and just kept playing but afterwards, you could tell, it started swelling up bad."

Wall said the walking boot was only for precaution. "It's just swollen. It's been swollen since the last game so just being in the walking boot will take the healing away, make it feel better. I'm getting treatment as much as I can."

By Michael Lee  | November 1, 2010; 3:19 PM ET
Categories:  Gilbert Arenas, John Wall  
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Comments

Wizards fans rejoice - you found a replacement for the Hibachi! Get that guy out of town and Wall will revitalize hoops in the Nation's Capital. Will he be rookie of the Year? Check out this site for their predictions: http://hoopstopia.com/?p=30. Congrats again Wizards fans.

Posted by: janglesjr | November 1, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

This will be at least the 2nd MRI for Arenas. My guess is that he got bad news from the specialist and wants another opinion. I predict he will need surgery.

Posted by: pezzypezpez | November 1, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse


The days of relying on Gilbert to play anything resembling a full slate of games is over. His body just won't hold up anymore.

If the Wiz had even one qualified shooting guard on the roster, Arenas could make the natural transition to coming off the bench and playing no more than 30 minutes per game.

The Wizards won't be able to trade him until he's in the last year of his contract, imho.

Posted by: and_1 | November 1, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Arenas won't play half the games this season.

Posted by: randysbailin | November 1, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it's just me, but I think Arenas is waiting for all they hype to settle down with Wall before he make his comeback. Once he comes back (I am predicting in game 4 or 5), he'll get a louder cheers than he would now. Sounds silly, yea I know. I still say we need to get rid of him. Three players that need to go are Gil, Young, and Blatche. Don't get me wrong. I love Blatche but he doesn't have that fire in him of wanting to become a better player. The dude look plumped and please don't tell me it because of his broken foot over the summer. The dude should had watched what he eat if he really wanted to become a great player.No wonder why he rushed to get his contract extension.

Posted by: demonj21 | November 1, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Uh-oh, Gil has influenced Wall already! I wonder if Wall is faking it to get his boy Lester Hudson more playing time.

Posted by: authorofpoetry | November 1, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I know the kid wants to play, and play as much as he can, but this might be a good excuse to not play Wall 40 mins a night.

Posted by: ts35 | November 1, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

I still haven't heard how Arenas hurt his ankle so badly to begin with. He faked an injury so Nick Young could get some run, and he hasn't played since then. So when did he do all this damage to his ankle?

Posted by: sonny2 | November 1, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Wizards fans rejoice - you found a replacement for the Hibachi! Get that guy out of town and Wall will revitalize hoops in the Nation's Capital. Will he be rookie of the Year? Check out this site for their predictions: http://hoopstopia.com/?p=30. Congrats again Wizards fans.

Posted by: janglesjr | November 1, 2010 3:24 PM

I read that and I think he gives an excellent comparison of why he thinks Blake will win the ROY.

But how in the hell is he so sure that Gilbert is being traded and Wall will have the the Team to himself. What info does he have to back that up.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 1, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

the wiz are doomed!!

gil wont play til march (like it would have mattered).

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | November 1, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"take the healing away"? This kid needs some help with his diction. We need the Agent Zero quote machine back in action.

Posted by: Matte | November 1, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

take the healing away"? This kid needs some help with his diction. We need the Agent Zero quote machine back in action.

Posted by: Matte

Duh ! misprint maybe. maybe he SAID swelling

Posted by: bossclifnpooh2 | November 1, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I still haven't heard how Arenas hurt his ankle so badly to begin with. He faked an injury so Nick Young could get some run, and he hasn't played since then. So when did he do all this damage to his ankle?

I think Gilbert turned the ankle as he was trying to pull his foot out of his mouth. You've got to work on your stretches before you try something like that.

Posted by: midlevex_ | November 1, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry, the roster will be blown-up partially again next year after this latest batch of hot garbage expires, then John Wall can start all over again with a new batch of Ernie Grunfeld "finds". Can't wait to see who Ernie will ditch draft picks for next year.

Posted by: FireGrunfeld | November 1, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

so is GA 'hurt' this time with the blessings of the WIZZIEs management as a trade is imminent? Interesting thought.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 1, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

As the loses mount up, the fans grow more restless with Arenas's real or imaginary injuries. Arenas will not be able to hang on to those few fans he has left in D.C. if he continues his same old tired act.

Posted by: dandyhuffman | November 1, 2010 6:30 PM | Report abuse

As the loses mount up, the fans grow more restless with Arenas's real or imaginary injuries. Arenas will not be able to hang on to those few fans he has left in D.C. if he continues his same old tired act.
dandyhuffman

AGREED !

Posted by: bossclifnpooh2 | November 1, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Blake Griffin looks like the real thing, but he's having his own rookie learning curve, playing on a more talented squad than the Wiz. Started out 2 for 11 last night, and over 3 games is shooting only 42%, not great for an inside post player. Also hitting only 60% of his free throws. Where he really makes a difference is on the boards, averaging 11 so far. But he's picking up 3.7 fouls in 33 minutes, which is a young player's flaw. And turning the ball over 3 times.

Thing to remember about Blake is that he's a high-jumping player with short arms, and not a shotblocker. In fact, looks like he has yet to get one. Coaches will have to cover for him defensively.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 1, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"Thing to remember about Blake is that he's a high-jumping player with short arms, and not a shotblocker. In fact, looks like he has yet to get one. Coaches will have to cover for him defensively."

Posted by: Samson151 | November 1, 2010 8:52 PM

Not necessarily. Just because a guy doesn't block shots doesn't automatically mean he's a bad defender (in the Blazers game, Griffin did a solid job on Aldridge, at least early on before he clearly started to get tired).

If anything, it's shot blockers who need more coverage defensively, as they often tend to gamble and, when they don't get the block, end up out of defensive position, requiring one of their teammates to cover for them.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 1, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm surprised no one here has pointed out perhaps the biggest irony of them all. Last year, there was a Wizards player who suffered a strained ankle tendon in training camp that he thought would only keep him out a couple games. But it didn't heal, even after surgery, and the player had to keep going back for more opinions. He ended up missing the season. The player's name was Javaris Crittenton, aka, the guy who Arenas asked to "pick 1".

I hope that Arenas' injury isn't another season-ender.

Posted by: NWDC3 | November 1, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

One more thing on Griffin:

I think the real challenge with him will be learning how to regulate the pace at which he plays. He has a fast motor, but he needs to learn to downshift at some points during the game so he's not gassed down the stretch. Some of that might take care of itself as his body gets used to the length and pace of the NBA game, but there's also the concern of of him getting hurt because of the way he recklessly throws his body around.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 1, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

I know the kid wants to play, and play as much as he can, but this might be a good excuse to not play Wall 40 mins a night.

Posted by: ts35 | November 1, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

You know Flip isn't going to do that...

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | November 1, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Who would have predicted that Gilby's career would have turned out this way, after such a promising start here?

Me, I told ya'll so.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 1, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

The odds of McGee being a star anywhere are slim at best. As a result, one can only hope that the fear of him leaving doesn't drive Leonsis and Grunfeld to make the same mistake with him so many other teams make by overpaying young bigs based on the ever ephemeral measure of "potential."

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 1, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

So you're saying that what he is at 22 is what he'll be at 32, correct?

That is absolutely ludicrous! First of all, coming out of the draft McGee was projected to be a 3-4 project at best. He's ahead of schedule based on those projections. I will agree he is still a bit immature (especially with this whole "style" thing), and his mind is married to SportsCenter, but one day the light is going to be flipped on with this kid, and when that happens, I definitely want him on MY team. When his mind marries Larry O'Brien, it's gonna get scary!

He's 22 years old, for goodness sake! He's already shown flashes of brilliance. Obviously, Krzyzewski and Colangelo don't share your sentiments. He will eventually get it, primarily because he will keep on hearing it -- from players he respects.

Posted by: bpybay | November 1, 2010 10:27 PM | Report abuse

"So you're saying that what he is at 22 is what he'll be at 32, correct?"

Of course that's not correct. Any fool can see that's not correct. But, as is the custom around here, don't let the fact that I didn't say anything like what you're claiming I said stop you from venting your righteous indignation at me as if I had actually said said it. When in Rome . . .

"That is absolutely ludicrous! "

Yes it is! But hey, you're the one who said it, so if you've got a problem with it, take it up with yourself. Leave me out of it.

"He's already shown flashes of brilliance."

There's nothing "brilliant" about having a huge vertical or long arms. He's shown flashes of tremendous athleticism. That's nice. But it takes more than that to be an actual effective basketball player. He's shown very little of that "more" and none consistently.

"Obviously, Krzyzewski and Colangelo don't share your sentiments."

How, exactly, is that obvious? I fail to see how their cutting him from the USA Men's team--twice--qualifies as a concrete endorsement of McGee's future superstardom.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 1, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

"First of all, coming out of the draft McGee was projected to be a 3-4 project at best. He's ahead of schedule based on those projections."

(A) Who made these "projections"? And what, exactly, were they "projecting" him to be? (B) How is he ahead of schedule? He's in his third year and is still making the same kind of mistakes he made as a rookie.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 1, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

The odds of McGee being a star anywhere are slim at best. As a result, one can only hope that the fear of him leaving doesn't drive Leonsis and Grunfeld to make the same mistake with him so many other teams make by overpaying young bigs based on the ever ephemeral measure of "potential."

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 1, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

So you're saying that what he is at 22 is what he'll be at 32, correct?

That is absolutely ludicrous! First of all, coming out of the draft McGee was projected to be a 3-4 project at best. He's ahead of schedule based on those projections. I will agree he is still a bit immature (especially with this whole "style" thing), and his mind is married to SportsCenter, but one day the light is going to be flipped on with this kid, and when that happens, I definitely want him on MY team. When his mind marries Larry O'Brien, it's gonna get scary!

He's 22 years old, for goodness sake! He's already shown flashes of brilliance. Obviously, Krzyzewski and Colangelo don't share your sentiments. He will eventually get it, primarily because he will keep on hearing it -- from players he respects.
Posted by: bpybay
==============================================

Don't waste your breathe bpybay, seriously, kalo has in for this kid like no other.

Obviously kalo is an intelligent dude with some basketball knowledge and a bit of common sense but he does not like Javale for some reason.

Javale has shown steady improvement and tremendous potential for a team I assume he roots for (not sure he's a Wiz fan or not) but nothing the kid does impresses him. You would think that he was the worst center prospect ever reading his post regarding Javale.

Javale is different but it doesn't mean that he can't be successful in this league and for this team in the very near future but don't expect kalo to give any props when this happens, it seems personal to me.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 1, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Roy Hibbert and JaTravel "The Great One" McGee were drafted back to back. Who would you rather have? I'll take Roy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436

http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3452

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 1, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

"There's nothing "brilliant" about having a huge vertical or long arms. He's shown flashes of tremendous athleticism. That's nice. But it takes more than that to be an actual effective basketball player. He's shown very little of that "more" and none consistently."


Just because a person's been blessed with certain physical gifts doesn't mean he isn't talented. You make it seem that if you where as tall, fast and athletic you would be at least as good.

It's his personal "thing" that makes him the player he is and the player he will become.

You often mention what he cant do and what he's mentally lacking but even you would have to admit that there is steady improvement from year 1,2, and now 2 games into his 3rd season, well actually you wont admit it.

You where obviously a champion debater in school, but winning the debate doesn't mean you are correct.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 1, 2010 11:35 PM | Report abuse

I love Roy and would take either but give me JAVALE!

Posted by: zxhoya | November 1, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

so is GA 'hurt' this time with the blessings of the WIZZIEs management as a trade is imminent? Interesting thought.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 1, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

One can only hope

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 1, 2010 11:43 PM | Report abuse

so is GA 'hurt' this time with the blessings of the WIZZIEs management as a trade is imminent? Interesting thought.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 1, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

One can only hope

Posted by: glawrence007
=====================================


Your Quoting yourself? Is that like talking about yourself in the 3rd person?

Posted by: zxhoya | November 1, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

"Just because a person's been blessed with certain physical gifts doesn't mean he isn't talented. "

True. But, of course, irrelevant because I've never said McGee wasn't talented. I've simply said that there is a limit to how far he can get by on that talent alone. I've seen nothing to dispute that.

"but even you would have to admit that there is steady improvement from year 1,2, and now 2 games into his 3rd season,"

No, I really don't. Why? Well--aside from the 1st Amendment--because I don't think there has been. Has there been improvement? Yes, some. But it's been far, far from "steady."

"Javale is different but it doesn't mean that he can't be successful in this league and for this team in the very near future"

I never said he couldn't or wouldn't be successful. In fact, in the previous thread I said that on a good team he'd likely end up as a 20-25 minute energy player off the bench. Contributing to a winning team is being successful in the NBA. But it's a far cry from being a "star" which I have no reason to believe he'll be.

"You where obviously a champion debater in school . . ."

Nope. Never got anyhwere near the debate team. And clearly, neither did you, as actual debate requires responding to what the other person actually said, which you haven't come close to doing.

". . . but winning the debate doesn't mean you are correct."

Yeah, actually, it pretty much does.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:06 AM | Report abuse

"If anything, it's shot blockers who need more coverage defensively, as they often tend to gamble and, when they don't get the block, end up out of defensive position, requiring one of their teammates to cover for them.Posted by: kalo_rama"

Griffin looked to me as if he'd played very little defense in the past. I suppose at Oklahoma he hadn't. And he was picking up fouls. All correctable flaws, of course.

But you're right, he doesn't pace himself yet. Same flaw as Wall. Both tend to come out firing on all cylinders. Playing a game rather than a season.

Still, those are two of the best at their positions to come into the NBA in quite a while.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 2, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

"Roy Hibbert and JaTravel "The Great One" McGee were drafted back to back. Who would you rather have? I'll take Roy."

http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436

http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3452

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 1, 2010 11:21 PM

(A) I wanted Hibbert at the time (and still do).

(B) If he had been on the board, there's little doubt in my mind he'd be wearing a Wizards uniform right now.

(C) As I recall, at the time you couldn't get enough of calling Hibbert a "stiff" whenever someone raised the possibility of the Wizards drafting him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Nick Fazekas, the guy that kept future superstar Javale McGee on the bench in college, is the #1 pick in the 2010 NBA Development League Draft.
Other notable selections are Magnum Rolle #3, Marqus Blakely #12, Scottie Reynolds #13, and Antonio Daniels was taken in the 2nd round.

Posted by: djnnnou | November 2, 2010 12:21 AM | Report abuse

". . . but winning the debate doesn't mean you are correct."

Yeah, actually, it pretty much does.


No, it doesn't. If you debate that the earth is flat and I debate that it's round, more people would believe the earth is flat, therefor you win the debate. Is the earth flat?

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 12:22 AM | Report abuse

"Griffin looked to me as if he'd played very little defense in the past. I suppose at Oklahoma he hadn't. And he was picking up fouls. All correctable flaws, of course. "
Posted by: Samson151 | November 2, 2010 12:11 AM


In the Blazers game (the only one of his NBAers I've seen, so far) he played pretty decent defense early on (in fact, Hubie Brown made several references to it). But down the stretch his defense (and his overall game) fell off, in large part because he was clearly gassed. Not surprising, really, after a year of inactivity in his first full speed NBA game. But when he was fresh he did a decent enough job playing position defense with his big body and using quick hands to knock a couple balls away. No Ben Wallace, but he was better than I would have expected under the circumstances.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:26 AM | Report abuse

"o, it doesn't. If you debate that the earth is flat and I debate that it's round, more people would believe the earth is flat, therefor you win the debate. Is the earth flat?"

A ridiculous example, of course, because it's a known provable fact that the Earth isn't flat. It is not, however, a known provable fact that McGee is going to be a star.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

That being said, it's entirely possible that I am wrong and McGee will be a star. But I haven't seen any reason to believe that, and you haven't offered a shred of meaningful evidence to make me think otherwise.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:30 AM | Report abuse

"You where obviously a champion debater in school . . ."

Nope. Never got anyhwere near the debate team. And clearly, neither did you, as actual debate requires responding to what the other person actually said, which you haven't come close to doing."


I responded with my impressions of your post in general in regards to Javale. I differ with your opinion of him and I have read many over the past year. 1st Amendment? Have you been denied this or have I suggested that it should?

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

"That being said, it's entirely possible that I am wrong and McGee will be a star. But I haven't seen any reason to believe that, and you haven't offered a shred of meaningful evidence to make me think otherwise."


Let's just leave it there because there is no "meaningful evidence" to prove. It's what I see and how I evaluate his potential and his present play. We have a different opinion of the kid.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 12:41 AM | Report abuse

"I responded with my impressions of your post in general in regards to Javale."

No, you quoted my post directly and then proceeded to give "responses" that had nothing to do with what was actually contained in those quotes.

"I differ with your opinion of him and I have read many over the past year."

In order to "differ" with my opinion, you'd first have to actually know my opinion. It's clear from your "responses" that you don't, as I've never said most if any of the things those "responses" attribute to me.

"1st Amendment? Have you been denied this or have I suggested that it should?"

Well, there was this:

"but even you would have to admit that there is steady improvement. . . "

According to the first Amendment, I can express any opinion I want, including disagreeing with your inflated opinion of McGee. So, by extension, I don't "have to" admit anything, according to said Amendment.

Any more questions?

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:45 AM | Report abuse

"I responded with my impressions of your post in general in regards to Javale."

No, you quoted my post directly and then proceeded to give "responses" that had nothing to do with what was actually contained in those quotes.

"I differ with your opinion of him and I have read many over the past year."

In order to "differ" with my opinion, you'd first have to actually know my opinion. It's clear from your "responses" that you don't, as I've never said most if any of the things those "responses" attribute to me.

"1st Amendment? Have you been denied this or have I suggested that it should?"

Well, there was this:

"but even you would have to admit that there is steady improvement. . . "

According to the first Amendment, I can express any opinion I want, including disagreeing with your inflated opinion of McGee. So, by extension, I don't "have to" admit anything, according to said Amendment.

Any more questions?

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:46 AM | Report abuse

"Let's just leave it there because there is no "meaningful evidence" to prove. It's what I see and how I evaluate his potential and his present play. We have a different opinion of the kid."

No shite Sherlock.

So what was your point in starting all this? If you were okay with my "differing opinion," then what did you hope to accomplish by calling me out on my opinion of him? You've obviously got a bug up your butt about my not slavishly loving McGee as intensely as you were trying to show me the error of my ways. Fail on that score.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 12:54 AM | Report abuse

I never quoted your post, I quoted bpybay post wich had your post in it and my post was directed at bpybay about you. Therefor your post was quoted indirectly. I'm directly done with this topic, I'm gonna read up on the 1st Amendment.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 12:59 AM | Report abuse

just for the record, the winner of a debate presents their case in a better manner than their opponent....facts are the key element. there is no fact to predicting the future....so both debaters lose....in this scenario....just had to throw this out there....i have no facts to prove my point however...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 1:03 AM | Report abuse

No shite Sherlock.

So what was your point in starting all this? If you were okay with my "differing opinion," then what did you hope to accomplish by calling me out on my opinion of him? You've obviously got a bug up your butt about my not slavishly loving McGee as intensely as you were trying to show me the error of my ways. Fail on that score.


I didn't try to show you crap! I responded to someone else's post about you not liking Javale as player and telling him that you wont change your mind even though there is clear evidence that he is improving to the point that he shows he can be a force in this league.

But your post don't change in correlation to his progress.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:06 AM | Report abuse

"I never quoted your post"

Yeah. Wrong. Again.

"There's nothing "brilliant" about having a huge vertical or long arms. He's shown flashes of tremendous athleticism. That's nice. But it takes more than that to be an actual effective basketball player. He's shown very little of that "more" and none consistently."


Just because a person's been blessed with certain physical gifts doesn't mean he isn't talented. You make it seem that if you where as tall, fast and athletic you would be at least as good.

It's his personal "thing" that makes him the player he is and the player he will become.

You often mention what he cant do and what he's mentally lacking but even you would have to admit that there is steady improvement from year 1,2, and now 2 games into his 3rd season, well actually you wont admit it.

You where obviously a champion debater in school, but winning the debate doesn't mean you are correct.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 1, 2010 11:35 PM

That's you, directly quoting my post (with "bpybay" nowhere to be seen) directly followed by you claiming I said some nonsense that I never said.

No wonder you have trouble remembering what I said. Apparently, you can't even remember what you said.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 1:07 AM | Report abuse

just for the record, the winner of a debate presents their case in a better manner than their opponent....facts are the key element. there is no fact to predicting the future....so both debaters lose....in this scenario....just had to throw this out there....i have no facts to prove my point however..

Lol, Kalo must be a lawyer because he has very persuasive words and would have been a great debater. I'm not intelligent or articulate enough to compete.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:12 AM | Report abuse

"I didn't try to show you crap! I responded to someone else's post about you not liking Javale as player and telling him that you wont change your mind even though there is clear evidence that he is improving to the point that he shows he can be a force in this league."

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:06 AM

Really? There's "clear evidence" of him improving and being a "force"? Huh, that's funny because barely a half hour ago you said:

"Let's just leave it there because there is no "meaningful evidence" to prove. It's what I see and how I evaluate his potential and his present play. We have a different opinion of the kid."

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 12:41 AM/blockquote>

Jeez, you can't even remember what you said 25 minutes ago? No wonder you can't carry out a coherent argument. You might want to invest in some ginko biloba. I hear it's great for the memory. Not so much for bball knowledge though, so you'll have to find something else to help with that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 1:14 AM | Report abuse

"i have no facts to prove my point however.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:12 AM"

So now it's back to "no facts"? Well, that didn't last long. You can't even stay on one side of your own argument for a full hour. You might wanna get evaluated for bi-polar disorder.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 1:20 AM | Report abuse

BTW, this:

"just for the record, the winner of a debate presents their case in a better manner than their opponent....facts are the key element."

is dead wrong. Winning a debate isn't about facts, it's about presenting a better argument, period. If you can do it with facts, great. But they aren't required. You can present an entirely convincing and compelling argument without the use of any facts.

Well, clearly you can't do it, but some people can.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 1:25 AM | Report abuse

Well my lack of bball knowledge shows a clear improvement from just last season.

Improved defensive rebounding
Improved defensive positioning
Haven't seen him bite on pump fakes
He's definitely stronger than last season
He clearly has more stamina

Clear improvements!

Where can I get this ginko biloba you speak of?

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:30 AM | Report abuse

just as the hypothetical debate on the flat earth...facts prove otherwise... however there are people out there that still believe the earth is flat, and will debate the point with you endlessly....javale could end up being a force in the league...prove it wrong...with facts...that is the debate...right?

Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 1:33 AM | Report abuse

"is dead wrong. Winning a debate isn't about facts, it's about presenting a better argument, period. If you can do it with facts, great. But they aren't required. You can present an entirely convincing and compelling argument without the use of any facts.

Well, clearly you can't do it, but some people can."


How is this different from the world is flat vs. round analogy I used. It's not about facts, it's the ability to influence ones decision with words.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:34 AM | Report abuse

@ joerutgens72

If you where in a room debating about the validity of the earths flatness, you would have bring everything you could to get them to believe your side. Create some computer models, power point presentation, whatever you could do or say to convince the room of your point of view. (even when you know the earth is round)

It's not about facts, it's about persuasion.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:43 AM | Report abuse

"Well my lack of bball knowledge shows a clear improvement from just last season.

Improved defensive rebounding
Improved defensive positioning
Haven't seen him bite on pump fakes
He's definitely stronger than last season
He clearly has more stamina

Clear improvements!"

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:30 AM

It's clear that, after only two games, making sweeping pronouncements about clear improvements over last season is quite clearly premature.

That being said:

Improved defensive rebounding--Last season: 2.6. This season: 3.0. Yeah, big improvement. Also, the Hawks grabbed 13 offensive rebounds (i.e., defensive rebounds the Wiz didn't grab) and the Magic grabbed 11. Orlando and Atlanta are currently in the top 10 in rebounding. Washington is dead last.

Improved defensive positioning: He gave up 23 points on 7-9 shooting to Dwight Howard with 10 rebs, and 20 points on 6-10 shooting to Al Horford with 10 rebs. So . . . no.

Not biting on pump fakes: Wait for it, it's early (although i will admit, going 2 games without doing it may actually count as a big breakthrough).

He's definitely stronger than last season: Howard and Horford would likely argue otherwise, as he had little success keeping them out of the paint and off the boards.

He clearly has more stamina: he played 23 minutes against Orland and 27 minutes against Atlanta. Not exactly running a marathon there in terms of PT.

What else ya got?

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 1:58 AM | Report abuse

and yet the facts still prevail....you cannot debate about the future...only speculate...the debate about javale is only speculating on the future...no facts present themselves one way or the other...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 2:03 AM | Report abuse

"It's not about facts, it's the ability to influence ones decision with words."

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:34 AM

Really? But you just said:

"just for the record, the winner of a debate presents their case in a better manner than their opponent....facts are the key element."

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:12 AM

You can't keep your own argument straight to save your own life, can you?

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:07 AM | Report abuse

There you go with your stats.

Horford scored 8 points after McGee left the game for good.

He has nothing for Howard, nothing. So what if Howard is the best center in the league.

They are also 2 of the strongest players in the League and McGee has zero help down low when he's in the game, ZERO.

He battled his tail off against Howard and every Magic player (all) that found their way to the paint. Put heart on the list of positives.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 2:12 AM | Report abuse

"no facts present themselves one way or the other..."
Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 2:03 AM

Not true. I just presented a bunch of them.

FACT: there has not been a "clear improvement" in his defensive rebounding.

FACT: He still gets beaten defensively and on the boards by opposing Cs.

FACT: Any pronouncements about "improved stamina" are undone by the fact that he hasn't even managed to play a full 30 minutes in either of the first two game. One was a blowout, the other he got into foul trouble. But the fact remains, the only way for him to demonstrate stamina is to stay on the floor, which he hasn't done so far.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:13 AM | Report abuse

"There you go with your stats."

Also known as facts.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:14 AM | Report abuse

"It's not about facts, it's the ability to influence ones decision with words."

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:34 AM

Really? But you just said:
"just for the record, the winner of a debate presents their case in a better manner than their opponent....facts are the key element."

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 1:12 AM

You can't keep your own argument straight to save your own life, can you?

Posted by: kalo_rama"


There you go reading and typing at the same time.

I DID NOT write that statement, joerutgens72 did.

"just for the record, the winner of a debate presents their case in a better manner than their opponent....facts are the key element. there is no fact to predicting the future....so both debaters lose....in this scenario....just had to throw this out there....i have no facts to prove my point however...

Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 1:03 AM"

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 2:17 AM | Report abuse

"Horford scored 8 points after McGee left the game for good."

Which means he scored 13 (or, in other words, most) of them when McGee was still in the game, many of them on offensive rebounds (i.e., defensive rebounds McGee didn't grab).

"He battled his tail off against Howard and every Magic player (all) that found their way to the paint."

And he lost. Badly. So much for improved strength/defensive positioning. Oh, I didn't see him doing much battling when Marcin Gortat walked down the lane untouched for dunks.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:19 AM | Report abuse

"I DID NOT write that statement, joerutgens72 did."

Well, the first time I saw it was in your post, with no quotes, no itals, and no credit/tagline attributing it to anyone else. If you want to avoid confusion you should probably learn how to use quotes when you, y'know, quote something.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:26 AM | Report abuse

So a .4 improvement is a regression?

"FACT: He still gets beaten on the boards by opposing Cs"
Those centers played more minutes with more help in the post.

"FACT: He still gets beaten defensively"
What player doesn't get beat defensively, Wiz are better defensively in the paint with him on the floor.

As far as stamina goes in the minutes that he has played, compared to last season, he clearly has more stamina.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 2:29 AM | Report abuse

".javale could end up being a force in the league...prove it wrong...with facts...that is the debate...right?"

Nope. I've already said I could end up being wrong about McGee. But there's nothing right now to suggest to me that I will be. The debate is zxhoya trying to prove that there's some factual evidence for McGee's "clear improvement." Not doing such a bang up job, so far.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:32 AM | Report abuse

well just for the fun of it

he hasn't disproved those "fact" either because he's not on the floor to rebound more...doesn't mean he can't...he can't show improved stamina if he's not on the floor...doesn't mean he doesn't have it...
it's all about perception...you perceive lack of improvement, i see inability to stay on the floor because he hasn't yet figured out how to do it.

Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 2:32 AM | Report abuse

"Which means he scored 13 (or, in other words, most) of them when McGee was still in the game, many of them on offensive rebounds (i.e., defensive rebounds McGee didn't grab)."

Horford had 2 offensive rebounds so it couldn't have been but so many points.

"And he lost. Badly. So much for improved strength/defensive positioning. Oh, I didn't see him doing much battling when Marcin Gortat walked down the lane untouched for dunks"

He was broke down by then, along with the rest of his teammates. lol

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 2:38 AM | Report abuse

"he hasn't disproved those "fact" either because he's not on the floor to rebound more...doesn't mean he can't.."

Not really the point. When he was on the floor he was out performed on the boards by the opposition, which directly undercuts any argument that he's improved as a rebounder. Also, through two games this season, he's actually averaging 4 mpg more than last season, but only grabbing less than .5 more defensive rebounds, which means that his rebound per minute rate is actually lower this season than it was last season. So much for "clear improvement."

"he can't show improved stamina if he's not on the floor...doesn't mean he doesn't have it..."

Again, the issue isn't whether he has it. The issue is whether there's been a clear improvement in that area. There can't be a clear improvement if he hasn't actually been on the floor long enough to show any improvement. So claiming he's improved as a matter of fact is wrong.

"it's all about perception.."

Nope. zxhoya presented these "clear improvements" as facts, They aren't. There's been no "clear improvement" in those areas yet. Does that mean he hasn't/won't improve? Nope. But based on what he's actually done, that clear improvement has not been demonstrated.

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:43 AM | Report abuse

and on that note...i stand corrected...my perception of the discussion was something else....sorry for the intrusion fellas...may we have the opportunity to debate debates again sometime in the future.

Posted by: joerutgens72 | November 2, 2010 2:45 AM | Report abuse

"He was broke down by then, along with the rest of his teammates."

He was "broke down" with 10:13 to go in the second quarter? Twenty seven seconds after checking back in of the bench? So much for all that "improved stamina" you were talking about.

http://www.nba.com/games/20101028/WASORL/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore

Posted by: kalo_rama | November 2, 2010 2:51 AM | Report abuse

Ask D. McNabb how broke you can get when an entire defense is beating you down.

It's good for McGee to go through this like a little brother getting beat up by a big brother, it will only make him stronger.

Posted by: zxhoya | November 2, 2010 3:31 AM | Report abuse

Who would have predicted that Gilby's career would have turned out this way
Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 1, 2010 10:18 PM

Posted by: gmac78 | November 2, 2010 7:30 AM | Report abuse

"Nick Fazekas, the guy that kept future superstar Javale McGee on the bench in college, is the #1 pick in the 2010 NBA Development League Draft." Posted by: djnnnou

Thanks, that was a fun link. My favorite is the 7th round, because the first pick was one Bamba Fall. His motto might be 'Bamba Fall, and Bamba Get Back Up Again.' Then there's Bobby Maze -- the one whose recruitment by Gary Williams caused so much commotion on the Maryland campus.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 2, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Roy Hibbert is one of those players who will always be underrated because he doesn't play 'the beautiful game'. That's been going on since he was part of a trio of big men at Georgetown Prep. People figured him as a backup at GU and he turned out to be one of the better centers that has played there.

This is obviously supposed to be his breakout year. He's averaged 18 and 10 boards in his first 3 games along with almost 5 assists and a couple blocks. He'll never zip up and down the court but he's playing well in the context of Indiana's scheme.

He's really slow. But he plays the game with his hands and his head.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 2, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

He's really slow. But he plays the game with his hands and his head.

And his gigantic ass. Lost art these days

Posted by: divi3 | November 2, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

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