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Posted at 6:55 PM ET, 11/27/2010

Open thread: Wizards (5-9) vs Magic (11-4)

By Gene Wang

Orlando enters this game having won two in a row, including 104-95 over Miami on Wednesday. Center Dwight Howard continues to toy with the rest of the Eastern Conference, averaging 22 points and 12 rebounds per game. When Wizards Coach Flip Saunders was asked about how Washington center JaVale McGee stacks up against Howard, he said simply, "It's not a matchup at this point." In their first meeting this season, Howard had 23 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks while McGee finished with seven points and two rebounds in a 112-83 Magic triumph. Chat about the game in the comments below, or join the conversation on Twitter with Gene Wang (@gene_wang). See your tweets here by using #wizards.

Tipoff: 7 p.m.; TV: CSN; Radio: 106.7 FM.


By Gene Wang  | November 27, 2010; 6:55 PM ET
Categories:  JaVale McGee  
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Next: Nick Young: 'I was in the zone'

Comments

Mcgee has 4 points and 2 rebounds in 3:30 and gets pulled after a travel call.

Posted by: bobilly2 | November 27, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Mcgee got pulled for foul trouble and fatigue keeping D Howard away(or trying to keep) from the rim

Posted by: gmac78 | November 27, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Interesting to see Seraphin get a little unexpected burn. He didn't seem as overwhelmed as I was expecting. And at the very least he seemed to grasp that his primary function was keeping a body on Howard.

Meanwhile Howard swipes at the ball -- from *behind* McGee -- while McGee is gathering to go up for a shot, and no foul call. Typical.

Posted by: ts35 | November 27, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Also, Gee appears to have moved ahead of Martin on the depth chart. The question now is, will he move ahead of Thornton?

Posted by: ts35 | November 27, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Washington has 15 offensive rebounds to this point, 5 by Gee. Very nice. That'll keep you close even when you can't shoot.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 27, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Anybody think that banner of Gil having a 2nd chance of being re-plastered at surrounding billboards at Verizon Center?

Posted by: zack5 | November 27, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Wall's Team.....Arenas's Team....???

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone imagine how more of Nick Young's potential would be realized by now if Ed Tapscott hadn't insisted playing his veterans when they were getting blown out by 35?

Posted by: NWDC3 | November 27, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

I am not fan of Arenas, but this team plays better when Wall is out. Team ball via Arenas... who would have ever thought it?

Posted by: lk11 | November 27, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Anybody catch Blatche on that last defensive play when Hilton blocked the shot?

He is completely LOST on pick and roll defense...I never noticed him being that clueless until recently.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 27, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone imagine how much more of NY's potential would be realized by now if he had applied himself on both ends sooner?

Posted by: ts35 | November 27, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

You cannot allow yourself to be juked that easily, Nelson bakes Hinrich advantage Majic.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Dang! Tough, tough loss, but great effort.

Posted by: ts35 | November 27, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse

BTH not complaining about PT after all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5855901

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 27, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Tough loss, but good effort.

You know though, that your team is in a sad state when a guy picked off waivers a few days ago is in the starting lineup.

Also, as I predicted, JaTravel would have foul trouble early on trying to handle DHoward.

Sincerely, Les BouleS Prophet

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 27, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Not into moral victories but I was happy with the performance. Thought the Wizards got away from the hot in Nick Young but was effective with Arenas driving to the basket. They missed some critical freethrows down the stretch. McGee missed two and Arenas was 1 of 2. But the season is young, continue to improve and give more playing time to the young players.

Posted by: spades72 | November 27, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse


Wizards couldn't get stops down the stretch. Ball game.

Posted by: tgif11 | November 27, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone imagine how much better NY's, McGee's, Blatche's potential would be realized if Ernie Grunfield had hired a real coach when he fired Jordan instead of holding the team hostage with Taspscott in charge for a whole waisted year with Flip in-waiting.

Top that one, if you can.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

It would have been great to get the win, but I was really impressed with some individual players tonight.
For one, that Seraphin already looks more polished as a post player then anyone else on this roster. He knows how to body up on the defense end. And uses really good foot work offensively.

Gil and Nick were superb. I like what Gee brings.
I did have a problem with some of the officiating. But it look like the Wiz got a few calls in the fourth.

Hope for future!

Posted by: bozomoeman | November 27, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

I have only one small complain. On the Magics last possession they took Arenas out of the game and brought in somebody else. But why was blatche left on the floor? He is probably the Wizards worse defender and as it turned out McGee went to contest the shot and Howard jumped over Hinrich for the put back. No sign of Blatche as always. Seraphin or Armstrong woud have been better.

Posted by: spades72 | November 27, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Please forgive me if this topic has been covered before, but I just notiCed this tonight at Verizon Center.

How can the Wizards organization be so stupid as to hang banners that say Washington Bullets, 1970-72 Eastern Conference Champions? Either this is the stupidest front office in sports or they believe that longtime fans of the club are the stupid ones and wouldn't be aware that title was won exclusively in Baltimore. If Susan O' Malley were still around, I would simply pass it off as more of her dishonest revisionist shilling, but we can't hang this one on her.

It's bad enough that the Washington NBA team takes credit for the fame of Earl Monroe and Gus Johnson, two players who never played a minute in Bullets colors any closer to DC than College Park. But, c'mon, let's use our heads for once, Wizards front office. Don't Embarrass yourselves and disgrace your orgaizations proud history with this stupidity.

Posted by: lgm6986 | November 27, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it is necessarily so bad that Gee is able to step right in as a starter, but more importantly that he is able to do it. Gee's intangibles are those grit and toughness and strong non-stat play that everyone says is missing from this Team.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I meant 1970-71 on that banner.

Posted by: lgm6986 | November 27, 2010 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Anybody here who says the coaching sucked or this player or that one didn't pull his weight does not understand basket-ball.

This was an excellent game, and every WIZARD on the court contributed from CARTIER MARTIN right on up the roster to GILBERT ARENAS.

FLIP's zone worked to perfection with all five players hustling at all times. He used his bench and made timely substitutions.

I thought McGEE had a great game. He battled from buzzer to buzzer. The kid is starting to grow up.

'DREY BLATCHE had his moments though he let down a few times. A good over-all game though.

HILTON ARMSTRONG did his best as well. He's not a great player, but I thought he did well defending inside tonight.

KEVIN SERAPHIN played great for a rookie. I love his nasty streak. I think this kid will be a beast inside, and may ultimately supplant ANDRAY BLATCHE.

The WIZARDS may have found some lightning in a bottle. ALONZO GEE showed up and played his best game since he returned. Really, words aren't adequate.

CARTIER MARTIN played well in limited minutes. I do think GEE is the better player of the two.

TREVOR BOOKER looked good a few times though he had a couple offensive and defensive lapses. Rookie mistakes.

NICK YOUNG was unconscious. Kept us in the game when it mattered.

KIRK HINRICH may have had his best all-round game as a WIZARD. Distribution, defending, even though his shots weren't falling early.

GILBERT ARENAS's drives to the basket were the deciding force that almost pulled this one out. In othe games he's been settling for jump shots. Tonight he drove the lane and finished at the rim, or drew fouls.

To me the only difference between the two teams tonight was the jump-shooting early. ORLANDO made one more than we did. All else was equal, rebounds, points in the paint, free-throws. At least, that's what I felt, not looking at any stats.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 27, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I meant 1970-71 on that banner. Ironic, isn't it?

Posted by: lgm6986 | November 27, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

I am not fan of Arenas, but this team plays better when Wall is out. Team ball via Arenas... who would have ever thought it?

Posted by: lk11 | November 27, 2010 9:11 PM

Arenas made an all star out of Jamison and Butler and made Larry Hughes got a huge contract so why are you surprised? But you are right absolutely right the team is much more fluid with Arenas as oppose to Wall.

Posted by: spades72 | November 27, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

@Igm6986,

Wholeheartedly agree with you. The banner should read Baltimore Bullets. Talking about selling your history short. Who is in charge down there now? They can't put it on a Prince Georgean since Susan is gone, ha, ha.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

I probably jinxed it by mentioning that the Wiz already had 15 offensive boards in the third quarter -- I think they got one after that. It's hard to imagine a team looking any more different from game to game than than Washington against Atlanta and then Orlando.

Several people have argued that the Wiz play better with Arenas than Wall but IMO that's inaccurate. The problem is that Arenas and Wall don't yet play smoothly when they're on the court at the same time. It's not like that wasn't pointed out a thousand times since Wall was drafted -- what do you do with two players who are used to having the ball in their hands?

I liked seeing Seraphin on the floor. I imagine some of the faux-coaches around here will now start insisting he get more minutes. As good as he looked tonight, he could look way worse tomorrow. There's no rush. We're no threat to the Lakers.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 27, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

The two charges Arenas drew should have been blocking fouls.

1. Richardson was still moving to his left when the contact was made.
2. Duhon just jumped in front of Arenas's path and started falling backward even before the contact was made.

Posted by: sagaliba | November 27, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

I have been saying it all along. This dude Seraphin, have some excellent foot work. Find a good big man coach to coach him up and he will be real good. If you noticed he was not pushed around by Howard. Dude is very strong.

Posted by: spades72 | November 27, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Are We Better Without Kirk?

Look, I like Kirk and he has actually played pretty well overall so this isnt a knock on him but I made a thread about this before the season. I said that I love the Wall pick and I dont think him & Gil will have a problem. I said if they both play 36min then they will play 24min together and then they play the other 12 when the other is on the bench. Both guys will easily have the ball enough to keep them happy. I said Gil could still play alot of PG that way and he will be fine. I said then the 3rd guy could be NY at the 2 when Gil or Wall is on the bench. Thats 24min for him and he could even get some extra run at the 3 if needed. Then right before this season I heard how good NY looked in camp and I said that I hope Flip plays the best guys and its no politics. I said I know EG has always wanted Kirk and that Flip loves him but if NY plays better then he should be the 3rd guard off the bench.

So far not only is NY not the 3rd guard but Kirk has started every single game and got major minutes. Again, Im not going to rip him because he's playing pretty well overall but the fact is that even when Gil cant shoot, our team is in the plus when he's on the floor in most cases but with Kirk we are in the minus alot of times. Flip keeps playing that dumb 3 guard lineup lately and we suck but when we put Kirk on the bench for NY then we immediatly play better. Tonight we were losing again until going to the bench for NY. In the Miami game I hope Wall starts if healthy and he starts along side Gil with Kirk on the bench. I also know that when we get fully healthy there will be a major short in minutes and I dont see Flip cutting Kirk's any how. I think if Howard starts then NY should be the next guy off the bench. Honestly, I might have Howard, Gee, NY, and a healthy Thorton rated ahead of Kirk so if anyone gets cut out the rotation then it should be him.

Again, Im not dissing him. He's playing well and will be better off the bench but I cant play him over NY. The other thing I loved about the Wall-Gil backcourt is that we are small then but when we go to the bench, we are normal. Gil or Wall at the 1 with NY at the 2. With Kirk in the mix, we are always small. We are always going to have atleast 2 small guys on the floor and sometimes 3 when it could just be 2 or 1 in alot of cases. You wouldnt have to let Gil guard the 2 all game. He could guard the 1 with NY guarding the 2. It would just be better for us overall

Posted by: dlts2041 | November 27, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

You know 88 re. your cut on BTH, he got much criticism for having a soft game, but the fellow does stand up for himself, doesn't he.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Areanas really looked quick to tonight he was consistently beating his man off the dribble. Hopefully this is a sign to come but then again, Wall will be the primary ball handler.

Posted by: spades72 | November 27, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Samson151,

I know you will debunk this argument, but Wall and Arenas don't play well together because; 1) the organization placed Wall as the leader of it, and 2) because of that, Arenas is going to defer to him, and 3) because the organization placed Wall as the leader, Flip isn't putting max effort and strategy into getting them playing together, and 4) it is also why Hinrich is also named Captain whom has become the third leg on a date. Third legs just don't work.

But in actuality, neither Wall or Hinrich is nowhere close to what Gilbert can bring to this Team right now. I've said that Gilbert is the real leader of this Team, but few want to accept that or believe it. But, it is so.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Dwight Howard's game winning put back was a result of the "serial skirt chaser's" lack of court awareness had Andray Blatche moved over when Mcgee went out to contest Jameer Nelson jumper then he could've at least battled Howard for the rebound and because of the trajectory of Nelson's miss he might have ended up getting fouled which would have sent him to the foul line i'm hoping one of the Wizard's coach's point's this out to Blatche but iwouldn't count on it. I think this squad with the right coach would be headed in the right direction.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 27, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

@dtls2041,

I can appreciate the way you qualified Kirk's play as not being the reason for saying he should not be getting the prominence on the floor as he currently does.

I too, understand and agree with that position. A good role player like Kirk and what he can add to a Team is being diminished by the overplaying and overemphasis of his value by the Coach.

Kirk Hinrich is getting star treatment on this Team. I heard one commentator just yesterday say that when Howard comes back that Howard is a starter. I can agree with that. Then he went on to say that Gilbert would be the 6th man and come off the bench in favor of Hinrich starting at the two with Wall.

The innuendo was that was what Flip would want to do.

Raised eyebrows??? Amazing, Yes, I would say so.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

That put back by Howard started with the defense of guard play on Jameer Nelson. It just happened that Kirk Hinrich was guarding Nelson, but on a last play like that, you cannot let a guard shake you as easily as Nelson did to Hinrich and now Nelson is in the paint free to do whatever he chooses.

McGee did a good jog of causing Nelson to alter his shot but it is all over then, because now your defense is out of sync. We discussed this here on the blog two nights ago.

Hinrich, everyone needed to stay with their man as long as doggedly possible. Hinrich was looking backward while trying to guard Nelson and a simple juke threw him out of the entire play now throwing the whole team into switch/help mode.

Can't play good defense that way.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

job not jog

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Dwight Howard's game winning put back was a result of the "serial skirt chaser's" lack of court awareness had Andray Blatche moved over when Mcgee went out to contest Jameer Nelson jumper then he could've at least battled Howard for the rebound and because of the trajectory of Nelson's miss he might have ended up getting fouled which would have sent him to the foul line i'm hoping one of the Wizard's coach's point's this out to Blatche but iwouldn't count on it. I think this squad with the right coach would be headed in the right direction.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 27, 2010 10:54 PM

In total agreement but the coaching staff should have known that Blatche is one of the weakest defenders on the team and should have used Armstrong or Seraphin.

Posted by: spades72 | November 27, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

LarryinClintonMD: I honestly thought Kirk was trying to funnel Nelson toward McGee for a shot block oppourtunity (maybe not) once McGee jumped out at Nelson i thought Blatche should have jockyed for rebound position with Howard.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 27, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag, don't know why Kirk or the Wizs would want to steer Nelson to McGee with Howard being the clean up guy. If that was the strategy, did they tell Blatche???

McGee has 5 fouls, in the back of your mind, overtime has to be considered in a game this tight, so why would you deliberately funnel traffic to your center whom has 5 fouls.

Doesn't make much since, but considering how easily Nelson got past Hinrich you might be right, though that is wacky strategy.

Just all the players play some damn D' on your man. Goodness.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 27, 2010 11:51 PM | Report abuse

There is a body of thought out here of how hard it is to play man to man defense with all the rule changes and picks or this or that.

It is kinda like folks are now saying that people don't talk anymore because of text messaging.

It is a cop out. Sure we have this new phenomenon of text messaging communication, but has it really changed the skills of good personal communication?

No, not really, I would say, it hasn't.

Kirk Hinrich and many other players guarding their man get passes for playing poor defense because the system has falsely built in the responsibility for their man to be passed on to a help/switching teammate.

If defenders knew and understood that they are solely responsible and accountable for their assigned man irreguardless of any help/switch, their own personal defense would be better.

You can't be standing there looking at the play when your man is scoring or making a play to help his team.

Nelson was Hinrich's man, not McGee, not Blatche, but Hinrich. Hinrich wasn't even screened or picked off of Nelson. But because, Nelson so easily got rid of Hinrich and he shouldn't have, Nelson's play accounted for both our biggest men on the floor to be out of position in the last few seconds of the game because of help/switch defense.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

"Look, I like Kirk and he has actually played pretty well overall so this isnt a knock on him but I made a thread about this before the season. I said that I love the Wall pick and I dont think him & Gil will have a problem. I said if they both play 36min then they will play 24min together and then they play the other 12 when the other is on the bench. Both guys will easily have the ball enough to keep them happy. I said Gil could still play alot of PG that way and he will be fine. I said then the 3rd guy could be NY at the 2 when Gil or Wall is on the bench. Thats 24min for him and he could even get some extra run at the 3 if needed. Then right before this season I heard how good NY looked in camp and I said that I hope Flip plays the best guys and its no politics." posted by dlts2041"

A few comments:
1) I'm not sure what you're argument is, because mostly you j7ust repeat what you said or what you heard. That doesn't prove anything about the merits of your position, whatever it is.
2) the issue isn't finding minutes for Arenas and Wall. It's finding a combination that works. In the few instances we've seen them together, it looks awkward.
3) both Arenas and Wall look more comfortable playing with Hinrich or Young at the moment than with one another. Just an opinion.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

"Samson151,

I know you will debunk this argument, but Wall and Arenas don't play well together because; 1) the organization placed Wall as the leader of it, and 2) because of that, Arenas is going to defer to him, and 3) because the organization placed Wall as the leader, Flip isn't putting max effort and strategy into getting them playing together, and 4) it is also why Hinrich is also named Captain whom has become the third leg on a date. Third legs just don't work."

Larry,
I can't locate a single fact in that passage, therefore I can't find anything to argue with, or agree with, for that matter. It's like a conspiracy theory.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Larry, Nelson didn't exactly just juke Hinrich and that was it. Howard was coming up to set a pick on Hinrich's left, so Hinrich overplayed to that side, as I see the Wiz do a lot. You'll often see Hinrich talk to the big behind him and point to his right indicating that that's where the big needs to be. Hinrich did look away for a sec, and that's when Nelson made his move. McGee was up, but not up far enough...totally understandable because his main concern is not letting Howard roll to the hoop. He then took one too many steps to his right, leaving room for Nelson to split them, because Hinrich was then blocked by Howard. JaVale then has to challenge Nelson, leaving space for Howard to roll. Hinrich and Gee both tried to put a body on him....um, yeah, neither was able to do much.

So put it partly on KH, partly on McGee, depending on your philosophy, partly on Flip, and also just call it good offense by Orlando. The Wiz obviously were expecting P&R and the plan was to force Nelson to his left. Nelson just made a better play to crossover to his right.

As for AB, he was sort of damned if he did, damned if he didn't because he was assigned to Rashard Lewis who was in the low corner past the 3 pt line. So AB wasn't going to be in any position to help on Howard. Neither would have Seraphin, Armstrong or Booker unless they were out of position. The only way you get around it, is maybe play a faux-zone on that side, and have Gee, Young, and AB constantly switching to keep AB near the hoop. But that just ends up leaving shooters open eventually.

We've now had three game winning possessions handled by Gil recently. The first, the pass to AB for the (missed) 3, the second the pass to NY for the 3, and the third, foregoing the pass to KH and taking it himself. KH was open, but hasn't been shooting well. And Gil had been getting calls taking it to the hoop. I think he made the right call, it just didn't work out.

Posted by: ts35 | November 28, 2010 12:53 AM | Report abuse

If defenders knew and understood that they are solely responsible and accountable for their assigned man irreguardless of any help/switch, their own personal defense would be better.

Under this same theory, I guess we also get to say that McGee is solely responsible and accountable for letting his man score the winning basket?

C'mon Larry, defense isn't that simple and you know it.

Gil got deked pretty badly by Nelson on that basket to end the half, but I never hear you call out Gil for his D.

Posted by: ts35 | November 28, 2010 1:03 AM | Report abuse

But all of this takes away from what should be the stories from this game.

Even though it was a tough loss, I saw some positives.

- Down by 12 at the half, the team didn't fold. They fought back.

- The Wiz outrebounded a team that killed them on the boards the last time they met. Team effort.

- Some nice things from Gee, to further muddy the SF situation.

- Seraphin did not look totally lost, and for a raw rookie, I thought he played ok.

- Flip letting McGee play the stretch with 5 fouls (a big complaint from the first Atlanta game).

- Flip trusting Young enough to run the offense through him while he was hot.

- And Gil deciding in the second half to start taking it to the rack whenever possible. He didn't always look pretty, but he definitely made up his mind to do it. The pretty part will come with repetition.

Posted by: ts35 | November 28, 2010 1:13 AM | Report abuse

Samson, I totally disagree with you thinking Gil & Wall have looked awkward together or both have looked better with Kirk.

I disagree because at 1st Gil was hurt & coming off the bench with little confidence. Then we started all 3 together. I think the 3 guard lineup throws both Wall & Gil off. My point is that I think if you have just Wall & Gil together then it would look anything but awkward. However, if you throw another ball handling guard out there then it screws everything up.

The fact is we wont know anything until we try Wall & Gil together with Kirk on the bench but I think we would be a better team right now with Wall & Gil starting, playing 36-38mpg & NY being the 3rd guard to play beside them

Posted by: dlts2041 | November 28, 2010 1:43 AM | Report abuse

Is It Time To Give Seraphin A Look?

Do you think he deserves to get Armstrong's minutes for a few games to see how he could do as the backup big? I thought he played Howard better then nearly anyone in the whole league for the time he was on him. He was physical, never went for the pump fake, and you could tell he had no fear of him. I like that. Now the question is will he look that way against everyone else who isnt named Howard. Everyone who doesnt play with brute force. Can he hang with the quicker guys? I think he deserves a look

Posted by: dlts2041 | November 28, 2010 1:44 AM | Report abuse

ts35,

Only got in from the last 5 minutes of the 3rd on. But, if you will double check, I wasn't really calling out Hinrich as I was the theory of help/switch defense and how it undermines man responsibility for all. Hinrich was more of an example of that than any indictment on whether his defense was the fault at all.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 1:54 AM | Report abuse

Larry,
I can't locate a single fact in that passage, therefore I can't find anything to argue with, or agree with, for that matter. It's like a conspiracy theory.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 12:34 AM

What is unfactual about this Team being designated Walls Team? Or Gill not saying on more than one occasion that this was Walls team and he is in support of that. Do I really need to restate the other two obvious facts.

But, for your sake, let's assume it is all just theory. Well then Samson, theorize. You are a smart man. After all, isn't theory a time tested tradition that has stood throughout history as a way to arrive at fact and to determine if something is in fact, so.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 2:17 AM | Report abuse

@Larry & Sampson151,

At the time of the draft, this team had no presence. I remember the question being proposed about who would be the leader if this team after AJ was traded. No leadership on this team at all. With Gil still getting killed in the media, we win the lottery and the the correct pick was Wall!

Now, this is where the problems start. To name a rookie that hasn't logged an NBA minute a captain was mistake 1. Mistake 2, to name Kirk Hinrich as a captain on this team where he's not logged a minute. But we were looking for a leader or savior for the fans.

Sampson, go back and watch the last 2 games, one with Wall and one without Wall. If you don't see the diffence, it's because you don't want to see the difference. J Wall will be a great player as will Evan Turner but Philly didn't give him the keys to the Sixer car because he was a College King.

Larry, you (or they) can say this is Wall's team but until it is proven to be such, it ain't his team. "Titles" don't mean anything until you prove that you are what they say you are, not just because they gave you a "title"!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 6:09 AM | Report abuse

@DC_MAN88
It would be nice to see something this team needs to build on from you. Kinda frustrating to see you only seem to mention the negative parts of this team. We all know this team is BAD but it would be nice to somethig constructive in your bold print!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 6:33 AM | Report abuse

"Now, this is where the problems start. To name a rookie that hasn't logged an NBA minute a captain was mistake 1. Mistake 2, to name Kirk Hinrich as a captain on this team where he's not logged a minute. But we were looking for a leader or savior for the fans."

This obsession with a largely honorary captaincy is beyond me. Who cares who the captains are? Besides, we traded away all the veterans, and Josh Howard is hurt. I suspect Flip just picked the two most mature people on the team.

Even if one of them is 20 years old.


Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 7:24 AM | Report abuse

As a player, do you buy in to the "title" or do you think the "title" should have been left vacant until a leader steps up on a team where there is no veteran leadership? Could you possibly rotate team captains until a leader emerges as such or do we tend to make too much of the title?

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Seraphin & AB are overweight; the difference: Seraphin actually plays resembling a POWER forward. AB to his credit played D. Howard the best of any Wiz defender, but Seraphin @ least boxed out of weakside rebounds.

Gil should shoot everytime in any last-second situation.

The positive: Saturday night's effort will get the Wiz their first road W vs. Miami Monday.

Posted by: bernard_thompson | November 28, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

both Arenas and Wall look more comfortable playing with Hinrich or Young at the moment than with one another. Just an opinion.
Posted by: Samson151

I've watched all the games to date and definitely agree that this is the case. Of course, they haven't really had too much time to adjust to one another yet since one or another has been injured much of the time.

At the moment, my biggest worry about starting Arenas and Wall and playing them big minutes, as many here seem to advocate, is that both players are in less than optimal shape. Arenas seems to be improving in both conditioning and confidence, but Wall definitely just needs to sit until he can move without hobbling at all, regardless of how long that takes.

After all, this is a rebuilding year, the first of at least several.

Posted by: nmik | November 28, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

@zack5,

Agreed. I know very well that you can't annoit a savior/leader of the team. I gave those points in response as to why Wall and Arenas may not be clicking just yet.

Arenas in reality is the leader of this team, but the team and many bloggers here don't want that to be out front and center.

But oddly, that might have to be acknowledged upfront by the Team and the players in order for this train to really start to roll.

Wall should not conducting the train just yet. Arenas should. Samson151 says it doesn't matter, but it matters greatly.

You can't have Arenas saying he isn't the leader of the Team just because Wall has been given the title, but in reality Arenas really is the leader.

People are terribly misinformed to assume that naming the leader and captaincy is some small insignificant non-factor in the success of this Team.

It is just like, when in preseason Arenas saide he lied about being hurt so Young could get some playing time, but the reality was Arenas really did have several nagging injuries and Young really did need to get some burn.

We saw how that worked out. The unnamed leader had to lie about something that was true for what he thought would benefit the Team and fellow teammate.

You cannot monkey around with the leadership/captainship like it is a non-factor.

It is a huge factor.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

This obsession with a largely honorary captaincy is beyond me. Who cares who the captains are? Besides, we traded away all the veterans, and Josh Howard is hurt. I suspect Flip just picked the two most mature people on the team.

Even if one of them is 20 years old.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 7:24 AM

To say that Hinrich and Wall are the two most mature people on the team is what we call in the military a WAG.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

"@DC_MAN88
It would be nice to see something this team needs to build on from you. Kinda frustrating to see you only seem to mention the negative parts of this team. We all know this team is BAD but it would be nice to somethig constructive in your bold print!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 6:33 AM | Report abuse "

Sorry dude, but I can only speak the truth.

Sincerely, Les BouleS Prophet

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

The unnamed leader had to lie about something that was true for what he thought would benefit the Team and fellow teammate.

According to what Arenas told SI, his lie had nothing to do with either the team or any teammate, to say nothing of any injury; he was just nervous about the reception he would receive from the home fans. Or is your point that he was lying when he was interviewed then?

Posted by: nmik | November 28, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

@Larry

Good points and I agree 100%. I tend to agree with your analogy of what is displayed out there on the court it's pretty much on. Sampson's opinion is valued as well but for folks to not see that Gil "the basketball player" will acount for at least 10+ wins this season don't wanna see it.

Like I said, Wall is gonna be a great player but Flip is gonna burn him out early of his career if he's not cautious about his minutes. This is not a playoff team but not worst team in league either.

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully last night ends the 3 guard lineup once and for all, but you never know. Once Wall is healthy, Flip can buy some more time bringing him off the bench for a game but eventually the decision he is afraid to make has to be made. Will it be Gil or Kirk who sits?

Posted by: divi3 | November 28, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

One more thing that is huge as well. Teams that think naming the Captain is just some honorary thing that should not mean too much really don't understand the human make-up.

Naming the leader/captain is huge. Boston and the Lakers just to name two, I bet place a huge importance on the leader/captainship of their Teams.

It is obvious that Washington understands that it is important, but thy overthought it by naming Wall and Hinrich. They did not want to demand that Arenas assume his rightfull role for political/public correctness.

They are not realizing that people are not stupid and naming Wall and Hinrich into roles they haven't earned is not a good thing and it hurts the Team more than putting some new grand face of redemption.

If they had named Arenas the Leader and Captain it would have signaled more than anything they have done so far that they are turning a new page for this organization.

Remember, they have never demanded that Arenas stand up and lead this Team like he should. It has always been ponded off on someoneelse. Remember, AJ was the leader of this team through all the shenanigans.

Making Gilbert responsible isn't a bad thing people. Think about it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"@DC_MAN88
It would be nice to see something this team needs to build on from you. Kinda frustrating to see you only seem to mention the negative parts of this team. We all know this team is BAD but it would be nice to somethig constructive in your bold print!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 6:33 AM | Report abuse "

Sorry dude, but I can only speak the truth.

Sincerely, Les BouleS Prophet

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I know but still kinda like getting one more lick in. What move would you make to see better play from this team outside of trade "Gilby" for vertually nothing (I know your feelings about him) and get rid of Bert and Ernie. . . I mean Ernie & Flip!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

If they had named Arenas the Leader and Captain it would have signaled more than anything they have done so far that they are turning a new page for this organization.

Remember, they have never demanded that Arenas stand up and lead this Team like he should. It has always been ponded off on someoneelse. Remember, AJ was the leader of this team through all the shenanigans.

Making Gilbert responsible isn't a bad thing people. Think about it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 28, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Gil was a captain last year Larry.

You're not making sense again.

You're like the drunk uncle at the family reunion that everybody just lets talk even though it's a bunch of gibberish and memories that nobody remembers...because it didn't actually happen that way.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | November 28, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

DCMAN's knowledge of basketball is obviously very limited. He points out the obvious but is unable to bring anything constructive to the table. He is merely just a nuisance. "Javale Mcgee will get in early foul trouble against D Howard". He's a profit now. Most inexperienced centers get in early foul trouble against Dwight.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | November 28, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

The Evolution Of Nick Young


18 or more points in 6 of the last 7 games, are you kidding me? Thats awesome to do off the bench. Even in the 2 games before that he played well with 9 & 11 points respectively on great shooting percentages. If we were good, he would look like a leading 6th man canidate right now.

He just looks totally different. He seems way more poised now. He gets hyped but never has that silly expression. His expression is now one of confidence and that no one can stop him. On D he isnt a dummy anymore. He's our best perimiter defender right now. He stay's glued to his man and hardly ever goes for pump fakes anymore.

His game is still fast but he's now under control at all times. Its like the game has slowed down for him. He use to look like a one trick pony chucker who was dumb. Now he's playing both ends, never looks lost on either side, and knows where he's going at all times. He's playing guys right now.

I remember seeing JJ Reddick kill NY in the past. I remember it clear as day. He was doing it the last few times weve played but he was also doing it before he even became a solid player. Even when JJ was a scrub, he was running NY off of screens, pump faking, and just torching him. On the other end NY would do all one on one moves, lose the ball, and just look stupid. Now he's playing JJ like a kid. This is the elite version of JJ and they look like they are 3 classes apart. Its like dinner when NY has the ball now. No one is stopping him. Even elite cats and he's owning guys like Reddick.

Watch his D though. He was all on Reddick & Pietrus while also playing great D against the Hawks & other teams. Even when guys score on him, its off of tough shots now. Thats really impressive. You can also tell that he has no fear of getting pulled right now. He's coming in and he's the go to guy when he's on the floor. He use to look like a poor man's JR Smith. Now I would take him over Smith any day of the week. He's looking like one of the best 6th men in the leauge.

Now the problem is will he continue to get minutes from Flip when we get healthy or will he be outed by guys like Hinrich. NY may not look the same if he starts coming into games way late or getting minimum scattered minutes here & there. He's earned his role and deserves to keep it until he plays like crap

Posted by: dlts2041 | November 28, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

"DCMAN's knowledge of basketball is obviously very limited. He points out the obvious but is unable to bring anything constructive to the table. He is merely just a nuisance. "Javale Mcgee will get in early foul trouble against D Howard". He's a profit now. Most inexperienced centers get in early foul trouble against Dwight.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | November 28, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse "

Sorry fool, but that's "Prophet."

This is not the first time JaTravel has played against DHoward, and he showed no progress from those other games. JaTravel still has no ability to control his urge to go for the highlight block at the first shot attempt. Maybe it has something to do with a big man coach on the Magic team (Pat Ewing) while none exists on Les BouleS side.

Gilby did better this game because he finally tried to draw fouls, which I have been saying all along, although others incorrectly disagreed. He still has absolutely no lift and no ability to finish strong above the rim like he used to. He scored 31, but needed 23 attempts while missing 5of6 3's. He still ended up with a -7 in the game, and took a very stupid long 3 pointer early in the game where it bounced off the backboard.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=301127027

In the end, whether it's a good loss or a bad loss, a loss is still a loss. No moral victories here.

Sincerely, Les BouleS Prophet

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

@dlts2041
It all adds up to CONTRACT YEAR for NY! Let'see if he can keep the intensity all season long!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Note to Zack5: Rest easy Zack5 trading Gilby is not an option (contract,equal value) are two of the many reason's Arenas will be a Wizard for a while. The real truth is that Ernie blew it when he fired Eddie Jordan at least Jordan had the player's ear and he got more out of the big three and that team than any fan had a right to expect, by undermining Jordan Grunfeld put this franchise on a path to destruction (50 plus loses 2yrs in a row). Ernie Grunfeld is clearly in this franchise fans cross hairs and has drawn the ire of many who post here on this blog. Flip Saunders is not the answer as a head coach his in game strategy leaves many scratching their heads but as long as Ernie is the GM then i don't see this franchise moving forward.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 28, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

"I know but still kinda like getting one more lick in. What move would you make to see better play from this team outside of trade "Gilby" for vertually nothing (I know your feelings about him) and get rid of Bert and Ernie. . . I mean Ernie & Flip!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse "

I don't care if they trade of keep Gilby anymore. What needs to happen is to have fresh management/coaches to figure out the solution, and hopefully that doesn't include keeping Unfeld Jr.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Saunders likely put it best: Javale isn't really a 'matchup' for Dwight Howard at all. With some notable exceptions, Howard can pretty impose his will whenever he wants. When he fails, it's usually because of his own flaws, not McGee.

We're just hoping that doesn't hold true in at some point in the future. If Javale were to develop a go-to move, that forced Howard to play him head-to-head, for instance...

As far as Nick's recent improved play, let's appreciate it without doing what some did last year when Andray went on his streak -- and that's reserve him a berth at the All-Star game. Blatche has had his struggles this year, as have Tyreke Evans and Brandon Jennings, last season's sensations. It happens. Like somebody said earlier, this club isn't worrying about the Finals. We can afford to wait.

As for how difficult it can be for talent to learn to play together, is there a better object lesson than Miami? Here's hoping they don't get hot against the Wiz.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"Note to Zack5: Rest easy Zack5 trading Gilby is not an option (contract,equal value) are two of the many reason's Arenas will be a Wizard for a while. The real truth is that Ernie blew it when he fired Eddie Jordan at least Jordan had the player's ear and he got more out of the big three and that team than any fan had a right to expect, by undermining Jordan Grunfeld put this franchise on a path to destruction (50 plus loses 2yrs in a row). Ernie Grunfeld is clearly in this franchise fans cross hairs and has drawn the ire of many who post here on this blog. Flip Saunders is not the answer as a head coach his in game strategy leaves many scratching their heads but as long as Ernie is the GM then i don't see this franchise moving forward.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 28, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse "

WTF?

One of the best things that happened is getting rid of EJ b/c he lost respect from the team by bending over for Gilby to ram himself in. If not EG, Gilby did plenty to get EJ fired.

As you can see, EJ didn't spend too much time in Philly.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

"hopefully that doesn't include keeping Unfeld Jr."

Don't you mean 'Unpheld"?

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

@dargregmag
I would never trade Gil, I just got finished watching the movie Office Space and hell, I'd give Gil more money and build around him. MAN88 doesn't care for "Gilby". I think "Upheld" will always be a part of this organization and if my dad was the owners best friend, I'd ride it out just like little Wes. Probably spent much time in Polin's home and around family. Nepthetism at it's finest.

If you chnged coaches, just before a lock out season, who would you get, realistically for GM & Coach?

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

""hopefully that doesn't include keeping Unfeld Jr."

Don't you mean 'Unpheld"?

Posted by: Samson151 | November 28, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse "

It doesn't matter.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

"@dargregmag
I would never trade Gil, I just got finished watching the movie Office Space and hell, I'd give Gil more money and build around him. MAN88 doesn't care for "Gilby". I think "Upheld" will always be a part of this organization and if my dad was the owners best friend, I'd ride it out just like little Wes. Probably spent much time in Polin's home and around family. Nepthetism at it's finest.

If you chnged coaches, just before a lock out season, who would you get, realistically for GM & Coach?

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse "

Did you just wake up? Teddy bought the team from the Pollin family many months ago.

And, you are probably the only person on the planet who would suggest giving Gilby more money.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

DC_MAN88: Where has the franchise gone since EJ was fired? EG has turned the franchise into a joke, had EG stood behind his coach (like a good GM should) then maybe things would be different as far as Philly is concerned it's a clear case of the tail wagging the dog what has Philly done under Collins??.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 28, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

@MAN88
I know who owns the team bonehead, Upheld,Jr. is synonemous with Washington Bullets. I was being sarcastic with the "Office Space" line! Glad you changed your views on Gil, the best player we have. Let's see if your man crush on "J WOW" turns out to be a good relationship!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

THE wizards can start GEE all they want, that's a slap in the face to NICK, a man comes off the street and flip starts him over nick. IF nick was starting maybe they wouldn't be so far behind when you bring GEE in. THAT'S cool, nick will be gone soon anyway, i know you'll don't care, you'll got gee.

Posted by: maejude | November 28, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

"@MAN88
I know who owns the team bonehead, Upheld,Jr. is synonemous with Washington Bullets. I was being sarcastic with the "Office Space" line! Glad you changed your views on Gil, the best player we have. Let's see if your man crush on "J WOW" turns out to be a good relationship!

Posted by: zack5 | November 28, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abus"

Hey bonebutt, if you knew who owned the team, then you wouldn't have rambled about the father of the son who's close the the owner's family. FYI, the Pollins have sold the team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

"DC_MAN88: Where has the franchise gone since EJ was fired? EG has turned the franchise into a joke, had EG stood behind his coach (like a good GM should) then maybe things would be different as far as Philly is concerned it's a clear case of the tail wagging the dog what has Philly done under Collins??.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 28, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse "

Hmmm, I wonder if an out of control Gilby, a blown up team where Caron, MeTawn, MeShawn, BTH, and others were let go had a tiny bit to do with the further death spiral for the team since EJ was excused. Duh.

Sincerely, Les BouleS Prophet.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | November 28, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

QUESTION? points off the bench,no defense, no rebounds, no assists, you have been saying that for 3 yrs .about nick, is there any other reason why he should not start. If he's not better than a man that was cut out of the league, then he should be traded,cut, released or whatever it is they do.

Posted by: maejude | November 28, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

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