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Posted at 6:54 PM ET, 12/ 1/2010

Open thread: Wizards (5-11) at Raptors (6-11)

By Michael Lee

The Wizards won't have Hilton Armstrong, who was suspended one game earlier in the day for shoving an airborne Miami Heat reserve Joel Anthony in the third quarter of their 105-94 loss on Monday. But they will have John Wall and Al Thornton, who are both returning from injuries. Wall had missed the past two games with a bruised right knee, while Thornton sat with a sprained left ankle, but both will come off the bench against the Raptors. Coach Flip Saunders said he wasn't surprised to see Armstrong suspended since Philadelphia forward Elton Brand received the same punishment for pushing McGee out of the air during a game last week. "It was the exact player that Elton Brand got suspended, the only difference was JaVale was a lot higher," Saunders said. The parallels between the two plays and suspensions don't end there. Brand also was suspended for a game in Toronto. Chat about the game in the comments below, or join the conversation on Twitter with Michael Lee (@MrMichaelLee). See your tweets here by using #wizards.

Tipoff: 7 p.m.; TV: CSN+; Radio: 106.7 FM.


By Michael Lee  | December 1, 2010; 6:54 PM ET
 
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Next: Wizards problems in Toronto started hours before the game

Comments

Blatche has always been soft...You can't teach toughness..he masks it by having one offensive game followed by 3 poor ones...

McGee is developing his potential where Blatche will only improve a little more over the years...

Posted by: pentagon40 | December 1, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Dang.....Will this team win a road game this year???....turn the game on for a hot sec and they were already down by 15 in the second quarter....danggggggggg

Posted by: redskinsfaninnc | December 1, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

No defense whatsoever.

No heart on this team. Period.

So change the coach, change the management, change the uniforms. It comes down to players.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 1, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

WOW...72 points at half time.....does anybody on this team play D?

Posted by: redskinsfaninnc | December 1, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Toronto is running so fast and wild, we can't get a license plate number with a set of binoculars. Where is our man up defense? You can't switch fast enough to keep up with these guys. Man up. Man up. Iffin you can't keep up with your man then everybody just run's free.

Thats what I see.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone seen Melodious?

Posted by: Utilityman1 | December 1, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

If only Hilton was there, this wouldn't be happening.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | December 1, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

I guess having Wall and Arenas together on the court, our guard play is so suspect that we have to have Hinrich babysit them.

I applaud Flip for making sure that Wall and Arenas get all the guard help they need.

Good job Flip. You surely know that there is no way that Wall and Arenas can excell by themselves or with 2 forwards and a center.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

I guess having Wall and Arenas together on the court, our guard play is so suspect that we have to have Hinrich babysit them.

I applaud Flip for making sure that Wall and Arenas get all the guard help they need.

Good job Flip. You surely know that there is no way that Wall and Arenas can excell by themselves or with 2 forwards and a center.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

If it wasn't for the consistent minutes and leadership of Hinrich one of the three best players on the team according to Flip there would not be anything positive about this team.

Big ups to Flip for knowing that this Team will sink or swim with Hinrich.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

This team gets blown out so often, we are getting a closer look at the end of the bench than at our starters.
Cartier Martin must be the best player in the NBA in garbage time.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | December 1, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

So who's predicting playoffs this season again? I don't think so.

Sincerely, Les BouleS Prophet

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 1, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

A team shoots 70% the majority of a game...and the first thing you can come up to complain about is Kirk Hinrich.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 1, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse


Gilbert Arenas was OUTSTANDING tonight: 1-10 from the field, 3 assists, 2 rebs, 2 TOs. First order of business for Grunfeld is to get Arenas and Flip out of town. Then Leonsis can fire Grunfeld and hire a GM.

Posted by: bobabuie | December 1, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert Arenas was OUTSTANDING tonight: 1-10 from the field, 3 assists, 2 rebs, 2 TOs.

Yeah, but Hinrich didn't set him up correctly.

Saunders needs to teach him how to do it.

Sorry for the sarcastic post but some of these complaints are difficult to understand.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 1, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse


At some point, Grunfeld has to become alarmed at the manner in which the Wizards are losing these games. The Wizards too often look like it's preseason and they still don't what they're supposed to do offensively or defensively or when to do it. That, to me, is all coaching.


That offense Flip is running is garbage and his defense is the same.

Posted by: and_1 | December 1, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

First order of business for Grunfeld is to get Arenas and Flip out of town. Then Leonsis can fire Grunfeld and hire a GM. Posted by: bobabuie

Ideally, the order is Arenas, Grunfeld, and then Flip. The new GM decides on the coach, but shouldn't be responsible for getting rid of Arenas (or Blatche). Rashard Lewis doesn't look so bad now.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 1, 2010 10:03 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards too often look like it's preseason and they still don't what they're supposed to do offensively or defensively or when to do it. That, to me, is all coaching.

The player's failure to execute isn't a factor?

This is the question, isn't it? Is it the coaches not getting through to the players? Or the players inability to do what the coaches tell them to do?

You can get new coaching but if you've got players that can't or won't listen, then what do you do?

Tonight's game was lack of effort and focus.

Saunders is a problem - he's a, at best, mediocre coach - but the talent and players on this team is, for me, a bigger problem.

Until that's fixed, it doesn't matter who's coaching this team. They'll be at the bottom of the league anyway.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 1, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

"A team shoots 70% the majority of a game...and the first thing you can come up to complain about is Kirk Hinrich.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 1, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse "

As if Kirk was the only dude on the court guarding all the Raptors players.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 1, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse


"You can get new coaching but if you've got players that can't or won't listen, then what do you do?"

You play the ones that do listen and you sit the ones that don't. That being said, I don't believe the problem is solely that the players aren't listening. I do believe that the scheme they're being told to execute is junk, just like it looked like junk last year when we had a veteran team. That team never looked like a well-oiled machine.

And for those thinking that JaVale has turned a corner on rebounding, he hasn't. He's still relying on athleticism and his length to get rebounds (which is why he's an excellent offensive rebounder and a poor defensive rebounder). Time after time on defense, he follows the shot while letting his man get between him and the ball. He got lucky tonight because the ball took a lot of weird bounces but it's the type of thing that would cost you in a close game.

This team looks far worse than it should at this point.

Posted by: and_1 | December 1, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

But why complain about Hinrich. Why is Hinrich getting the lion's share of my comments. Why? Why? Why, is it Hinrich that is catching my wrath?

It is this simple for you smarty's that think it is Hinrich I am complaining about. It isn't Hinrich at all you blokes. It isn't Hinrich's fault you old chaps.

It is Flip's insistence on making a good subsititute role player the primary focus of this Team.

Hinrich's role on this Team is by far the most prominent role on the squad.

And for you blokes not to see that, I don't know what basketball yawls' be awatchin'.

It isn't Hinrich's fault that his role is more than Gilbert's, more than Walls, more than Nick's, more that Gee's, more than McGee's, more than Blatche's, more than anyone on the Team.

I swear if the bus pulled off without Hinrich Flip would cancel the game.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Not much talent out there. Not much effort either.

Posted by: larryrob | December 1, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

All you have to do is breath on Andray Blatche and he doubles over, wince and cry like you know what. Is this guy really our power forward? Not good, not good at all.

Posted by: spades72 | December 1, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

It's Flip SDMDTSU, not Hinrich, you should understand by now that my comments go straight to Flip. When Wall and Arenas is on the court, why is Hinrich out there two. Hinrich doesn't put himself in the game, Flip does. When we need a traditional line up Hinrich doesn't say, no Flip, I think we need to play 3-guards, Flip does.

Hinrich gets the most wrath from me than any player because Flip has given him the most prominent role. Even when he was running Wall in the ground Hinrich role was still prominent.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Shoot-Shoot, Slam-Slam,
d@mn it's really hard
to be a Wizards fan.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | December 1, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like this was just one of those games that was a blow out, and the only thing to do is forget it and move on.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | December 1, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

does Hilton Armstrong do that much for us in the paint? The raptors really had a good game plan "attack the rim, if you fake out javale the follow through is there."

Posted by: jefferu | December 1, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

And one more thing SDMDTU, why would you think that Doc Rivers told his starters to shoot 7 out of 10 against the Wizards?

Doc Rivers knows basketball and he knows that the Wizards don't check nobody as a Team and when you are not being checked it is much easier to shoot a high percentage.

This help/switch D is crap and Toronto as well as many other games and Teams will continue to expose the sorry defense of this Team.

Ask Kalo_rama why the Detroit Pistons revolutionized defense and caused the league to change the rules on what you can do while playing defense.

It boils down to getting your arse on your man and guard his butt wherever he decides to go on the court. You are on his butt so tight that he can smell your breath and tell you what you had for lunch.

Flip Saunders and these Wizards and some of you don't know what kind of defense that is, but I do. You have to start that way first and then you can get fancy, like a switch D with no pressure on your assigned man.

You got game SDMDTSU. I don't think so. Nothing in your posts says you got game.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich should be blamed. He dominates the ball whenever he's on the court and he is on the court a lot. The guy is ineffective for the most part and shouldn't be playing no more than 20 minutes coming off the bench. He dribbles the ball way too much and seems to end up in the teeth of the defense with no where to go. Not enough ball movement but then again that could be said about everybody. I guess I am just Hinrich overload

Posted by: spades72 | December 1, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich should be blamed. He dominates the ball whenever he's on the court and he is on the court a lot. The guy is ineffective for the most part and shouldn't be playing no more than 20 minutes coming off the bench. He dribbles the ball way too much and seems to end up in the teeth of the defense with no where to go. Not enough ball movement but then again that could be said about everybody. I guess I am just Hinrich overload

Posted by: spades72 | December 1, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

I don't believe Andray Blatche did much in the way of weight training or other such physical or mental preparation during the off-season as he claims. His body and court demeanor shows no evidence of it. I understand he is recovering from a broken foot and working his way back into shape, but that in no way excuses the poor effort and energy he displays on a nightly basis.

I get the sense that Blatche is content with being deemed an NBA starting power forward (albeit on a losing team) with a lucrative contract to match. I see no fire in him to refine and apply his talents to become the best player he can be. I sense no ambition on his part to make his mark on the game. I may be reading his game wrong and he may yet render my assessment void, but I'd be willing to explore trade offers for him now.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | December 1, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

For those still hoping that Leonsis changes the name of the team, I nominate The Washington Mallomars, in commemoration of the team's marshmallow-soft interior.

You know it's a bad night when your front line gets out-toughed by a guy named "Andrea."

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 1, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

"Hinrich should be blamed. He dominates the ball whenever he's on the court and he is on the court a lot. The guy is ineffective for the most part and shouldn't be playing no more than 20 minutes coming off the bench. He dribbles the ball way too much and seems to end up in the teeth of the defense with no where to go. Not enough ball movement but then again that could be said about everybody. I guess I am just Hinrich overload

Posted by: spades72 | December 1, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse "

Blame the player or blame the guy who brought him here.....another guy who doesn't fit....courtesy of Grunfeld, who wiped out whatever cap space there was to get another mediocre player.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 1, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

"You are on his butt so tight that he can smell your breath and tell you what you had for lunch."

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 10:57 PM

You might wanna see a doctor, cause it sounds like your nasal passages might be hooked up wrong.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 1, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

McGee didn't have the usual energy tonight. Hope it's a one night thing.

I agree that Hinrich plays too much. He's a decent player thou.

It was so pitiful i turned it off early in the third quarter.

Posted by: stevie2 | December 1, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

So, a team that has an 0-8 road record plays the Raptors on the road and gets blown out? Maybe they won't win a road game all season. This is Bullets Basketball - the most insignificant franchsie in the NBA for the last 30 years! Well done Bullets and props to all the losers who support losers.

Posted by: jwing14 | December 1, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Booker and the vaunted Seraphin were every bit as soft as Blatche tonight. You know it's bad when Flip criticizes his guards just as much as his bigs, which he did postgame.

The way Blatche is playing it's time to get Javale more FGAs.

Posted by: divi3 | December 1, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

TS35,

It was common knowledge around that league that Dantley was not known for playing D. The Chicago Bulls almost picked up Dantley when he was a became a FA after playing with Dallas.

They didn't pick him up because Chicago's owner did not want to pay the price for Dantley.

It was common knowledge around the League that Dantley did not play D and it was an issue between he and Zeke. However, that point is small in that by bringing it up in context of our foray and playing D, I wanted to emphasis the style of D that the Pistons played and the fact that Dantley was considered by Zeke to be the weak link.

Kalo_rama points out that Dantley was traded for a guy that did not play D either, but Isaih was getting rid of Dantley because they fueded period.

Dantley, its been said walked up to Thomas on the court the next time they played each other and whispered in his ear, "I know it was you that got me and the next time I have a chance I am going to mess you up" and then Dantley pinched Thomas on his leg.

Ironically, the team went along with Zeke's wishes as you well know because the defense of one Dennis Rodman was far superior to Dantley's. In fact Rodman took the SF position and in reality Aguirre played mostly as the SG.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Since when and by whom is Seraphin "vaunted"?

You crack me up, sometimes.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 1, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

"Ironically, the team went along with Zeke's wishes as you well know because the defense of one Dennis Rodman was far superior to Dantley's. In fact Rodman took the SF position and in reality Aguirre played mostly as the SG."

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2010 11:36 PM

You don't listen very well, do you? I told you to knock this off.

That quote is,of course, unadulterated nonsense. Aquirre rarely played SG in Detroit, as Joe Dumars (NBA finals MVP) and Vinnie Johnson had that position locked down (to say nothing of the fact that he'd be toasted defensively at SG).

During their first championship season, Aquirre was the starting SF. Period. Rodman came off the bench, backing up at both forward spots. During their second championship year, Aquirre was the starter the first half of the season at SF, then Daly sent him to the bench and started Rodman next to Laimbeer and Edwards. The only time Aguirre played any real meaningful minutes at SG was when Dumars or Johnson were injured.

This is the last time. Don't make me have to warn you again.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 2, 2010 12:00 AM | Report abuse

I dunno, this club looks about where I would have expected them to be. That is, mixing decent performances (like Orlando) in with some genuine stinkers (tonight).

At least we shot 41 FTs -- can't blame this on home court reffing.

If the pattern holds, we should see a much better effort against Portland on Friday.

Then again, who can rely on past performance when you're talking about a club as newly-assembled and inexperienced as this one is?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 2, 2010 1:07 AM | Report abuse

Kirk Hinrich -- that bum shot 58.3%, 5 assists, 2 TOs. He's still the Devil, though -- that's why Flip starts him. It's like a spell he puts on coaches, see...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 2, 2010 1:15 AM | Report abuse

Kalo_rama,

I know from your posts that the Pistons is one of your good topics. So what I said that Aguirre played mostly SG. Maybe he did not, but he did play SG with the Pistons as you even admit.

And from what I remember, some of Aquirre's best games came when he was allowed to run the floor at SG, because he sucked at D underneath, probably no better than Dantley.

Thats the way I remember it. Thanks for the precise info though.

You ever heard of speaking half truths so that the complete truth reveals itself.

I'm good at that for some reason. Sometimes this quirk I have just brings out the worst in people.

Don't mean to keep getting you so riled up.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 2, 2010 7:39 AM | Report abuse

"And from what I remember, some of Aquirre's best games came when he was allowed to run the floor at SG, because he sucked at D underneath, probably no better than Dantley."

Do you remember the South winning the Civil War and the Germans winning WWII? Because those things are just as true as what you just said.

As anyone who actually watched the Bad Boys play would know, during big moments of games it was commonplace for Daly to use a 3-guard lineup with Thomas, Dumars and Johnson on the floor, and Aguirre on the bench. So not only is your "Aguirre played lots of SG" riff utter crap, but the fact of the matter is that VJ played more SF than Aguirre ever came close to playing SG.

"You ever heard of speaking half truths so that the complete truth reveals itself."

The complete truth is that you talk out of your ass so much the seat of your pants should come equipped with a mouth guard.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 2, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Can Flip Please Just For 1 Game, Start.....


the Wall-Gil backcourt with Kirk on the bench. We're 17 games in with Gil playing in 14 of them, Wall in 11, and they have only started 1 game together, and that was with Kirk. Stop acting like Gil missed a hundred games to the point where he has to be on the bench when he comes back. Stop acting like Wall missed a hundred games to the point where he's got to come off the bench when he gets back. We are the only team in the league who has there 2 best players on the bench all year long. Get them both in the starting lineup & put Kirk on the bench.

We're 17 games in and we still havent one time ran the lineup that everyone thought we would use, but yet we wonder why we lose every game. His rotations suck. He's all crossed up now. Stop crabbing around and just put the real lineup in and see what happens. Then you can say that we suck, or that Gil & Wall cant play together, or whatever but dont keep trying your hardest every game to do something other then that. Now again Gil played so bad & Kirk played so solid that it will be another excuse for Flip to again not start that lineup. Either Wall or Gil will again come off the bench or he will start 3 small guys. I could see if we were winning but we never win. Just start the real lineup and see how it goes, you idiot.....lol

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 2, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

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