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Posted at 2:22 PM ET, 12/31/2010

Open thread: Wizards (8-22) at Pacers (13-17)

By Michael Lee

Coach Flip Saunders returned to the Wizards on Friday after missing the previous game against Indiana to tend to his mother, Debbie, in suburban Cleveland. "It's good to get back," he said. Saunders said his mother is still in intensive care, but "she's making some progress. Hopefully she'll be better in the next couple of days. It's always tough, when you get a call at 6:30 in the morning when you're 90 years old. She's a battler. She's where she needs to be, in the hospital, where they'll take care of her. She's kind of feisty, for sure." Saunders said he watched the Wizards' 104-90 win over the Pacers on Wednesday on his iPad. "I thought we had an extension of how we've been playing defensively. We've been playing pretty good. Neither team shot the ball very well, and we rebounded well, which is the key, because they rebound well."

Let the conversation begin in the thread below. You can also join the conversation on Twitter with Michael Lee (@MrMichaelLee). See your tweets here by using #wizards.

Tipoff: 3 p.m.; TV: CSN; Radio: 106.7 FM.

Check out a live box score from tonight's game here.

By Michael Lee  | December 31, 2010; 2:22 PM ET
Categories:  Flip Saunders  
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Next: Al Thornton adjusting to possibly more limited role

Comments

Dray Dray Dray Dray Dray. Man he's got to get out of this funk. I have a feeling he's going to bounce back with a solid game though

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 31, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I hope in the near future someone in the Wiz organization will corral a retired center,aka Patric Ewing to show McGee how to play his position...

As for Blatche, posters have been citing his age 24 and that he is young and will come around...age is no factor when you have no heart to mix it up with the big boys..it's easy to score 25, 13 rebounds against the poor teams...

Again the name of the game is defense...defense...defense...when that 4th period comes around...today's game it won't matter by the time it rolls around though....

Posted by: pentagon40 | December 31, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Please get coach Flip out of here.

Posted by: breebree | December 31, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"I have a feeling he's going to bounce back with a solid game though" Posted by: dlts204

ARe you serious? I'm guessing either AB got you in Free at the Shadow Club or you're out of your mind if you think he/they will play better today. Looks like a totally different team from the other night. I'm hoping he got you in the Shadow Room and you sticking with your boy. How's VIP at that place?

Posted by: zack9633 | December 31, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Blatche is going for a 20/20 game.

Twenty missed shots and twenty turnovers.

Talk about lost out there.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 31, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Much as I hate to admit it. they miss KH.

Posted by: zack9633 | December 31, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

The only way we win this one is if Dray, Shard, NY, & Josh start playing the way they are capable of playing. The system sucks but you should still be able to do something on your own

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 31, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Hey Ernie, How's things looking for the Blatche trade? I sure hope you have a buyer before they see the tape of this game in INDY cause your Starting Forward, yeah thats him number 7,.....He sucks balls! Time to start the car and take em to the airport to get em out here! FAST.....at the half yo boy is 0-6, 5 turnovers!

Posted by: rf2litenva | December 31, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Saunders $uck$!

Posted by: bobilly1 | December 31, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

rf2 just took the words out of my mouth. Gawd, Dray is horrible today: fat, slow, apathetic performance. It's amazing the team isn't down by 40 right now.

Why is this team SO terrible away from DC?

Posted by: rbelleisle | December 31, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

All the Hinrich stuff is crap. No one is saying that we are better without Kirk. Some say we are better without him if we have Wall-Gil & NY. After the Gil trade people said they just dont want Kirk starting. No one has ever said they dont want him to be our backup PG. Thats all the critics want him as. Not the starting 1, not the starting 2, and damn sure not the starting 3. He's a backup 1 and he will do good there. There is no disagreement on that

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 31, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I know we have Wall and things still may workout this way but the fact is that since Flip came here the only time weve played well is when we ran that 2 guards Offense. Flip's normal system sucks. All we do is shoot J's and it looks so easy to stop while every shot looks like a difficult jumper coming off a screen or a drive where the whole D can see it coming.

I know he doesnt want to run it while he's got the Franchise in Wall but Livingston is as pure as they come at the point and he managed to still look like a good pure PG late when we switched to it. Im not saying to make it our base but atleast run it sometimes because this other Offense has been horrible ever since Flip has been here. We get no easy baskets, no low post ups, and we shoot all jumpers

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 31, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Every time you think this team is getting a little better they give you one of these.

More competitive in the second half but the Pacers are just coasting.

The bench is just horrible today. Saunders has no buttons to push.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 31, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

I don't get the Hinrich critics. Yeah, he's a limited player who gets overwhelmed against athletic guards. And Saunders plays him too much (although what are his options?).

But on the problems with this team, he's about problem #21.

Blatche is lost out there. McGee is usually lost. Young is back to the pattern of having a couple of good games and then disappearing. The bench was just awful.

And yet Hinrich is the problem?

Posted by: SteveMG | December 31, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Ugh.

But everyone have a safe and Happy New Years!

Posted by: ts35 | December 31, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

First of all, Pacers got the 2nd ugliest arena in the NBA after Atlanta. Having said that, Flip got to go. You would think te Wiz would be fired up to play for Flip after he was caring for his mom but nnnooo! The players do not want to play for him especially Javale. I wonder if Flip told players not to pass him the ball during offense? At one point John Walls saw McGee alone with Hibert while the clock was winding down. Instead of passing him the ball, John shot a missed 3-pointer.

After Flip, Blatche has to go. I am willing to bet he been out clubbing before this game. Dude look terrible but then so the rest of the team except Wall.

By the way I've been noticing players been wearing this braclet:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/02/power-balance-hits-the-nba/

Does anyone know if it really work? Saw the advertisement on TV last night, buy 2 for $20.

Posted by: demonj21 | December 31, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Well, the Pacers were certainly ready for us this afternoon. Smoked us a bit in the first half. This was like one of those games earlier in the season, falling behind and having to work their way back to respectability. The FG% was the obvious flaw today -- at just under 39%, about what it has been the last few games, but clearly insufficient against a team that was shooting better. No FT deficit for Washington, however.

I'm not sure why the assists have been off (Wall finished with more TOs). 12 isn't going to produce many wins.

Overall an undistinguished performance. Hinrich's the culprit, of course. He had no assists today.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Clank,clank,clank.....what happen to team basketball,what happen to get to the foul line???...outside of john wall those poor rim got dents all over them....let me see, blachte-6"11,Lewis-6"10,McGee-7 plus, ok when your outside shots are not falling its time to look inside...go hard to the rim and get to the line...our best inside threat is Wall....he's not afraid of contact, the rest of those frontline bozo's are paper weights...Flip.. I hope your folks are better but honestly I was hoping he didnt come back today, I wanted to see how the team would perform with him not there on the road....but he showed up and you know the rest......for the last day of 2010 the wizards went out like the wimps they are...I really think it time for the majic show to come come to the Wizards and its time for Flip and Blatche to DISAPPEAR!!!!!

Posted by: redskinsfaninnc | December 31, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Hey Ernie, How's things looking for the Blatche trade? I sure hope you have a buyer before they see the tape of this game in INDY cause your Starting Forward, yeah thats him number 7,.....He sucks balls! Time to start the car and take em to the airport to get em out here! FAST.....at the half yo boy is 0-6, 5 turnovers!
Posted by: rf2litenva

AB got the most rebounds in the game. AB got the most blocks in the game. John Wall and Hibbert had more turnovers. Nick Young, Josh Howard, and Cartier Martin had lower shooting percentages. Yet, you single out AB, but not any other player. Why?

Posted by: twomangame | December 31, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Hey Ernie, How's things looking for the Blatche trade? I sure hope you have a buyer before they see the tape of this game in INDY cause your Starting Forward, yeah thats him number 7,.....He sucks balls! Time to start the car and take em to the airport to get em out here! FAST.....at the half yo boy is 0-6, 5 turnovers!
Posted by: rf2litenva

AB got the most rebounds in the game. AB got the most blocks in the game. John Wall and Hibbert had more turnovers. Nick Young, Josh Howard, and Cartier Martin had lower shooting percentages. Yet, you single out AB, but not any other player. Why?

Posted by: twomangame | December 31, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse


Overall an undistinguished performance. Hinrich's the culprit, of course. He had no assists today.

Posted by: Samson151

Didn't have any last game either and they won, so that's not it. ;-)

Posted by: tgif11 | December 31, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know if it really work? Saw the advertisement on TV last night, buy 2 for $20.Posted by: demonj21"

Absolutely works. How could it not, since it is based on "a performance technology using holograms embedded with frequencies that react positively with the body’s natural energy field"? I mean really, what could be more scientific?

However I understand for only $10 you can get guarantee results with Secret Tibetan Mind Power Method, which involves a tin foil hat, batteries not included.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse


Yi played less than five minutes and had just as many rebounds (3) as Hilton and McGee. Won't win too many games with your 1st- and 2nd-string bigs rebounding that poorly.

I guess Blatche and Young going a combined 6-27 from the field with nine turnovers doesn't help much either. How much of this loss is attributable to the "Flip Effect"?

Posted by: tgif11 | December 31, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the problem is that Flip is too short. I don't know how we can expect a center to respect a coach who only comes up to his rib cage. Randy Wittman's 6'6", so that's a big advantage. Plus Flip should smile more. I think that would make the players work harder.

But of course if the team hired Patrick Ewing, everyone would automatically respect him, and we'd be back in the playoffs.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"How much of this loss is attributable to the "Flip Effect"? Posted by: tgif11"

Maybe Flip forgot to tell Nick and Andray to shoot better than a combined 22.2%. You never know.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse


Maybe Flip forgot to tell Nick and Andray to shoot better than a combined 22.2%. You never know.

Posted by: Samson151

He definitely forgot something.

Posted by: tgif11 | December 31, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

I see Charlotte lost its first game under Paul Silas, at home against the Warriors. Golden State led most of the second half but held off a Bobcats rally.

I guess they'll have to fire Silas now that he's demonstrated he's not invincible.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

"He definitely forgot something.
Posted by: tgif11"

LOL or they did.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

I think most (not all) of the Saunders criticism is way overblown or has little merit but at some point you have to acknowledge that - for whatever reason - he simply cannot get through to this team.

You can't fire all the players so you fire the coach.

My guess is that it won't matter but when everything else fails it's time to do something that makes no sense.

And this is just the organization to do it.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 31, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Welcome back Flip...

Thanks,the party tonight is on you.

I knew the team would rise to the occasion so I put my money on the Pacers.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 31, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

"You can't fire all the players so you fire the coach.My guess is that it won't matter but when everything else fails it's time to do something that makes no sense.And this is just the organization to do it.Posted by: SteveMG"

Well, you clearly understand the dynamic of this blog.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Of course it probably makes a difference WHEN you replace a coach. For instance, firing Ed Jordan a dozen games into a new season seemed, well, nonsensical. The good replacements were all taken. Why not replace the coach at (or at least near) the end of a season so he'd have a chance to participate in the draft and a full camp?

But of course, Jordan's firing was as much about internal Pollin politics as about building a winner. And in retrospect we can see it was based on an extreme overestimate of the team's talent and potential.

So what's the best course of action should Ted decide to replace coach, GM, or both? Wait until all the returns are in, of course -- at or near the end of the season. Unless you've got the ideal candidate already on the hook, jumping at his chance.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

"Welcome back Flip...
Thanks,the party tonight is on you.
I knew the team would rise to the occasion so I put my money on the Pacers.
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Why don't you buy some of those holographic power bracelets? 2 for $20.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Flip comes back to coach and the Wizards lose. Go figure.

Anyone with a brain can see that Flip is a horrible coach. His coaching style, rotations, demeanor, etc. are that of a high school coach.

PLEASE TED FIRE HIM ASAP.

Posted by: squidward1 | December 31, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Ted needs to clean house completely at the end of the year. He should first start with Ernie, who after some initial success, is the one responsible for architecting a complete and dismal decline of this franchise. Flip should be the next to go. He has shown nothing to excite me about the present or the future of this team.

Oh, and congrats, Flip, for being the first coach in the history of the franchise to set a record for consecutive road losses. Well done!!!

Posted by: la_terp | December 31, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

coincidence they lose
rotations are very different

Posted by: kidvid | December 31, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Is Flip a vampire? Sucks the life right out of the team.

Posted by: divi3 | December 31, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

"Ted needs to clean house completely at the end of the year. He should first start with Ernie, who after some initial success, is the one responsible for architecting a complete and dismal decline of this franchise. Flip should be the next to go. He has shown nothing to excite me about the present or the future of this team."Posted by: la_terp"

How about the players? Should he get rid of them too?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

seriously though, i dont think even ABs biggest detractors could predict he would be this bad. It's not even laziness or bad attitude, he just cant buy a basket right now. Worst he's shot in his whole career, borderline bizarre

Posted by: divi3 | December 31, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

"Is Flip a vampire? Sucks the life right out of the team. Posted by: divi3"

Yes, that's it exactly. Flip's a vampire. Or possibly a werewolf. Good thinkin'.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Pretty dubious honors Flip's earned, longest losing streak in franchise history AND longest road losing streak. Given we are talking Bullets/Wizards, that takes some real effort. Congrats!

Posted by: divi3 | December 31, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"Pretty dubious honors Flip's earned, longest losing streak in franchise history AND longest road losing streak. Given we are talking Bullets/Wizards, that takes some real effort. Congrats!Posted by: divi3"

Were any players involved? If not, no wonder he's losing. It's unfair.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Oh, to have traded Nick Forever Young and Andray Blahhh last month. Too late now.

Posted by: WestCoastBullet | December 31, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

I thought the Wizards had provided Flip with some players. Who are those guys out there on the court? Are they getting paid? How come they keep losing? You'd think they had a vote in this...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

"Ted needs to clean house completely at the end of the year. He should first start with Ernie, who after some initial success, is the one responsible for architecting a complete and dismal decline of this franchise. Flip should be the next to go. He has shown nothing to excite me about the present or the future of this team."Posted by: la_terp"

How about the players? Should he get rid of them too?

Posted by: Samson151 |

No, lets keep giving away draft picks and hang onto these rejects from other teams and go for some more dubious records. No. 5 pick for Miller and Foye ring a bell in your head???

Posted by: la_terp | December 31, 2010 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Were any players involved?

players come and go, the distinction of worst coach in history of Washington basketball now rests with Flip Saunders. Again, pretty dubious achievement. Still some time for him to get out from under it though, all is not lost.

Posted by: divi3 | December 31, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

la_terp,
You a Los Angeles Terrapin? I watch Skins Games at Kitchen24 in Hollywood with a few other MD people.

Posted by: WestCoastBullet | December 31, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

"Oh, to have traded Nick Forever Young and Andray Blahhh last month. Too late now. Posted by: WestCoastBullet"

No fair making fun of players. They can't help it.

All kidding aside, folks, the team has been playing better of late. For six or seven games, at least. Who knows? They may actually be overachieving.

I've wondering if Nick, who's played so well, is beginning to cool off. It happens to people who make their living jacking up shots from outside. The 2 for 11 doesn't bother me -- it happens -- but the one board, one assist, 3 TOs, 5 fouls is an off-game.

I dunno, I'm not ready to give up on this team yet. But then I don't expect a lot from them.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

"players come and go..."Posted by: divi3"

Well, then, could a couple of this batch please go?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

WestCoastBullet - yes. Unfortunately, the only team I follow these days are the Caps. Still keep up with the other teams, though, and hoping for better times.

But good to know. Maybe next season.

Posted by: la_terp | December 31, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't able to see any of the game. But reading through these comments, I don't see any semblance or any indications of the way the Wizs played the last game against Indy.

Was it that bad? Did Hinrich play or are the comments in jest?

LarryInClitnonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

All kidding aside, folks, the team has been playing better of late. For six or seven games, at least. Who knows?

what was it, 16th new lineup tonight? That's never going to work, and we'll probably see the 17th new lineup tomorrow

Posted by: divi3 | December 31, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

So, are you folks really saying that the whole team stunk and looked nothing like last game.

I can see one or two players sucking it up from the last game, but the whole team.

What is up with that?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Very poor showing by everyone. No energy. Everyone musta been planning their New Years eve.

Posted by: VBFan | December 31, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

How can the whole team basically have a poor showing just from the last game?

What was the biggest difference between the last game and this one?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

"What was the biggest difference between the last game and this one?LarryInClintonMD."

This was a road game?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD - Biggest difference was Flip was coaching this game :)

Posted by: la_terp | December 31, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

I can see one or two players sucking it up from the last game, but the whole team.

What is up with that?

----

road game.

pacers played as if they had been embarrassed in the last game. wizards played as if they had already been partying.

and no, it wasn't the coach.

Posted by: MinuMang | December 31, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"I can see one or two players sucking it up from the last game, but the whole team.What is up with that?LarryInClintonMD."

Call me crazy, but haven't the Wizards had some problems on the road this season? Or maybe I misheard...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

"Was it that bad? Did Hinrich play or are the comments in jest?LarryInClitnonMD."

I don't believe Kirk should actually have to play to be at fault. I mean, Flip doesn't play, nor does Ernie, and aren't we always blaming them?

I rest my case.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

"LarryInClintonMD - Biggest difference was Flip was coaching this game :)Posted by: la_terp"

Dammm... I thought they played in Indianapolis.

Verizon Center needs a makeover.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute -- were the Wiz wearing their holographic power bracelets? If not, then we may have our answer.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

The Coach??? The Road??? Humm. Let me ponder. They've had problems on the road this year...yeah, but this group ain't them same bunch of boys is they? Lewis and Howard as I see it makes this a whole different team, I thought.

I thinks I might wanna discount the same ole boys on the road again excuse. Just a bit.

The coach, now I'm ready to to say yes to that, but one guy said can't be coaching. However, most know me, but I'm not going to agree at this point cause I did not see the game.

Uhh, uhh, what? Did somebody say take a WAG. A WAG, yeah, A WAG, a wild a-- guess.

Okay. My guess. The coach.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Uhh, uhh, what? Did somebody say take a WAG. A WAG, yeah, A WAG, a wild a-- guess.Okay. My guess. The coach.LarryInClintonMD."

I thought WAG stood for wives and girlfriends. Are you trying to pin this on innocent females?

Wait a minute -- did Larry watch the game tonight?

If not, we may have another possible answer... fan disloyalty in Clinton, Maryland.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Yep, checked it out, and WAG commonly refers to wives and girlfriends, or secondarily, the Walgreen's on the NY stock exchange.

I'm pretty confident that Walgreen's had nothing to do with this loss, although that's never stopped some of the folks on this blog...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute -- were the Wiz wearing their holographic power bracelets? If not, then we may have our answer.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Yup, McGee is wearing one and some Orlando players.

Posted by: demonj21 | December 31, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"The coach, now I'm ready to to say yes to that, but one guy said can't be coaching. However, most know me, but I'm not going to agree at this point cause I did not see the game."

It's definitely coaching. What else could it be? Personally, I saw Flip trip Andray on one of those dribble drives. And then when Ernie rushed from the stands to knock aside Nick's three point attempt...

You can't trust anyone these days. Good thing those aren't pros out there on the court -- that'd really be tragic.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

"Yup, McGee is wearing one and some Orlando players.Posted by: demonj21"

Maybe that's what we needed -- some of those Orlando players.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

"The Coach??? The Road??? Humm. Let me ponder. They've had problems on the road this year...yeah, but this group ain't them same bunch of boys is they? Lewis and Howard as I see it makes this a whole different team, I thought."

We only had Lewis and Howard? What happened to the other players? Where's Nick and Andray? Javale? I can't believe our players would just disappear like that... where's the loyalty? I sure hope Ted isn't paying them...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I thought WAG stood for wives and girlfriends. Are you trying to pin this on innocent females?

Wait a minute -- did Larry watch the game tonight?

If not, we may have another possible answer... fan disloyalty in Clinton, Maryland.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:44 PM

No. I did say I did not see the game. And WAG is a military term for Wild A_s Guess.

It forewarns all that a decision was made without a clue at all, hince a WAG. I clearly stated I was making a WAG. Nothing but a guess my good man, not a statement of fact.

You apparently saw the game so your conclusion should have more merit than my WAG. I am not indicating anything more than that.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I'm in favor of contraction. The NBA should eliminate those loser franchises in Boston, LA, and Orlando. Then let Ted call dibs on six players. Puts us in the playoffs.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

"You apparently saw the game so your conclusion should have more merit than my WAG."LarryInClintonMD.

Can we see a photo of your WAG?

Listen, you can't talk. It's your fault we lost tonight.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

" I am not indicating anything more than that.LarryInClintonMD."

You're just trying to duck responsibility. If you'd watched the game, no doubt the Wiz would have pulled it out. Road or no.

Your power bracelet could have cancelled the evil brain waves emanating from Flip.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

And if you don't have a power bracelet, you can borrow one from bulletsfan78, soon as he taps out in Vegas.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

OK, I'll stop. Invoking mercy rule...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm in favor of contraction. The NBA should eliminate those loser franchises in Boston, LA, and Orlando. Then let Ted call dibs on six players. Puts us in the playoffs.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the playoffs but not a championship if Ted kept Flip as his coach.

I guess some people forget Flip was the coach of the best team in basketball when he was with the Pistons and couldn't get that done there...

but it must have been the players fault?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 31, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Mercy rule...LOL...better throw it to Flip, he's so far out of it, he can barely tap.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

A smart organization would give Flip several games off to tend to his mother's health concerns. The fanbase, the team and Flip's mom would all benefit.

Posted by: musicmanjr | December 31, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

A smart organization would give Flip several games off to tend to his mother's health concerns. The fanbase, the team and Flip's mom would all benefit.

Posted by: musicmanjr | December 31, 2010 9:53 PM

That would be so correct, but this isn't a smart organization so far. And, Mr. Grunfield has no interest in seeing if this team really does respond differently on the court for a few games in the absence of his hand picked selection as coach.

For, it there was any real indication that this is mostly on Flip's head, then he himself, Ernie that is, might have to share in Flips fate.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 31, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Les BouleS are currently 0-16 with away games.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 31, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

"Yet, you single out AB, but not any other player. Why?"

Cause he sucks, 4-16 from the field, 6 TO's, and taking 3's at the end of the game?? Dude's lost his mind. He's lazy and his game will always be that way.

Flip is really bad also. I kind had a feeling in my heart they were going to lose this one. Not because they were on the road but Flips rotations are horrendous. I think those guys have tuned him out.

I hope Howard is ok also, doesn't look good from what I saw.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | December 31, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

"A smart organization would give Flip several games off to tend to his mother's health concerns. The fanbase, the team and Flip's mom would all benefit."

Awesome way to put it, I was trying to think of something but couldn't come up with the words. :)

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | December 31, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

OK, this is bad.

Headline in WaPo:
"Jefferson, Wright Lead Nets Over Bulls in OT"

But the article reports that in fact the Bulls won the game.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

"I guess some people forget Flip was the coach of the best team in basketball when he was with the Pistons and couldn't get that done there...but it must have been the players fault?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Well, if you stop and think for a moment, isn't it always the players' fault? I mean, they're the ones in short pants, out on the court. You have to ask yourselves, if the coach of the Pistons was that bad, how did the team manage to win 60+ games in the regular season? There's no real good answer to that.

Maybe it's the power bracelets. Or the magic sneaker inserts.

Somebody noted earlier, you can't fire the players, so you replace the coach. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense -- long as you've got the same players, logic says you're likely to get a similar result. Dwight Howard can hail a new era following the trades with Phoenix and the Wiz; at least they got some actual new players.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 12:04 AM | Report abuse

People are scratching their heads on the poor performance in Indiana after beating the same team 2 days earlier...

What we saw was a team playing over its' head to win and returning to their true level in Indiana...What you are seeing is the true Wizards...over rated Blatche and Nick Young...Save your money and take your loved one to a fine restaurant where your meal will be guaranteed to be good each and every time....

Posted by: pentagon40 | January 1, 2011 6:33 AM | Report abuse

"I kind had a feeling in my heart they were going to lose this one. Not because they were on the road but Flips rotations are horrendous."

You've got a club that is 0-16 away from home -- quite a streak of futility. They're 8-7 at home, so we know they can play. Now they're back on the road, against the same team they beat by 14 a couple nights back at home. They lose by 9.

And somehow it's NOT because they were on the road?

The rotations that are good for .500 ball at Verizon Center are suddenly inadequate once we get away from there?

There are other teams in the NBA's bottom tier that are worse at home and better on the road. The Cavs, NJ, Minnesota, and Toronto, for instance. The Kings are 4-14 at home, but they've won two on the road.

So how come we can't?

Hint: it's not the rotations. Our players have got a problem on the road.

It's fixable: they've been real close to victory a couple times. At some point they'll put it together and we fans can put the bugaboo to bed. But for now, better to look inside the players' heads for the answer.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 7:54 AM | Report abuse

By the way, anybody notice Miami set a record for December victories? 15, I think.

Remember back in November, when they were talking about the Big 3 as a failure?

What's the difference?

Around here, they'd insist it's coaching.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Here's one difference in the two Indy games: Roy Hibbert.

On Wednesday in Washington: 15 minutes, 5 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 5 fouls.
Friday in Indianapolis: 31 minutes, 17 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 fouls.

A related difference -- Javale McGee.

Wednesday in DC: 22 minutes, 16 points, 10 boards, 4 blocks, 2 fouls.
Friday, Indy: 18 minutes, 7 points, 0 blocks, 4 fouls.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Oops, forgot to give Javale credit for his 3 boards yesterday in Indianapolis.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 8:12 AM | Report abuse

Attitude and confidence is a huge ingredient to success on the court. Paul Silas was just saying the other day that the players have to have confidence and attitude out on the court without the fear that they are under a microscope and not be looking over their shoulders when they play out on the court.

At home, even if the players suffer from this type of environment with Flip, they probably can overcome it to a degree.

On the road is a different story. For unless you are a top tier team, most times you aren't imposing your will against teams.

We all know that the only player that doesn't fear the hook besides John Wall is Kirk Hinrich. Some might add Blatch to the list. Nonsensical rotations/subbing will kill you on the road.

Yeah, it is the players alright, the players that are being led/coached by Flip Saunders.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 1, 2011 8:50 AM | Report abuse

In the final analysis, players and coaches are joined at the hip. You really can't separate/evaluate one from the other when it comes to success of the team.

However, one of them (player or coach) might take on more blame than the other when it comes to a lack of success.

There is good reason that the decision making by Flip plays a huge role in the success of this Team.

If I had to rate on a scale of 1-10 why this Team fails, I would rate the coach higher than the players.

I would rate Flip a 7 and the players a 4 with other factors beyond both of their controls factoring in like the GM, probably a 3.

Reason for Failure Scale.

Flip - 7.
Players - 4.
GM - 2.
Organization/Tradition - 2.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 1, 2011 9:04 AM | Report abuse

OK, this is bad.

Headline in WaPo:
"Jefferson, Wright Lead Nets Over Bulls in OT"

But the article reports that in fact the Bulls won the game.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Professional journalism! And to compound the faux pas, there are no players named Jefferson or Wright on either team. Would LOVE to know who came up with that one.

Posted by: bpybay | January 1, 2011 9:12 AM | Report abuse

By the way, anybody notice Miami set a record for December victories? 15, I think.

Remember back in November, when they were talking about the Big 3 as a failure?

What's the difference?

Around here, they'd insist it's coaching.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 8:00 AM

Yeah, I did notice that conundrum down in Miami. I think most agreed that in their case it was the cohesion and the chemistry of the players and the way they played on the court being the biggest factor.

I think most people never thought that it was Spoelstra. I never thought it was a coaching thing in Miami, even with my penchant to put a greater responsibility on coaching.

So, Samson151, bad analogy to the Wizard situation. If Spoelstra and Flip swapped teams, the Wizs would be immensely more successful without a doubt.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 1, 2011 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Has anyone noticed that The Little General has only one more win than the Wiz up in New Jersey.

Should Avery be having more success or is that about the best he can do with that New Jersey Team?

Should Flip be having more success or is this about the best he can do with this Washington Wizard Team?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 1, 2011 9:50 AM | Report abuse

"If I had to rate on a scale of 1-10 why this Team fails, I would rate the coach higher than the players.I would rate Flip a 7 and the players a 4 with other factors beyond both of their controls factoring in like the GM, probably a 3.
Reason for Failure Scale.
Flip - 7.
Players - 4.
GM - 2.
Organization/Tradition - 2.
LarryInClintonMD."

I can see where this went wrong. Larry establishes a scale that's completely arbitrary, the product of his own opinions (and presumably, beliefs and prejudices). He pretends that scale has some basis in fact, but no evidence has been provided to support that. It's just one person's opinions. Maybe others share those opinions, but that doesn't make them reliable -- just popular.

The error is sometimes called 'reasoning backwards from the conclusion'.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"I think most people never thought that it was Spoelstra. I never thought it was a coaching thing in Miami, even with my penchant to put a greater responsibility on coaching.So, Samson151, bad analogy to the Wizard situation. If Spoelstra and Flip swapped teams, the Wizs would be immensely more successful without a doubt.LarryInClintonMD"

Once again, Larry states his opinion as if it were verifiable fact. He 'never thought' it was Spoelstra's fault, therefore in his mind, it wasn't. Plenty of folks in Miami believed it was. You can imagine the atmosphere among fans when the ordained Super Team struggled.

That's why it's hard to respond to this sort of argument. There isn't one. It's just a collection of opinions, vigorously defended.

So it's no surprise when the conclusion is that if Flip and Spoelstra switched teams, the Wiz would be "immensely more successful." It's just another unsupported opinion.

But I bet Flip would like the opportunity to find out.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"Professional journalism! And to compound the faux pas, there are no players named Jefferson or Wright on either team. Would LOVE to know who came up with that one.
Posted by: bpybay"

I see the story was actually off an AP wire. The headline guy must not have read the first paragraph. But it's a complete mystery where they got that headline.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 10:04 AM | Report abuse

It's just another unsupported opinion.

Unfortunately, that's all most of us can post: unsupported opinions.

I don't really have a problem with posting what you feel strongly about, but the same people posting the same drivel over and over and over can get tiring.

Try not to let it get to you, Samson. : )

Posted by: nmik | January 1, 2011 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I see Quincy Pondexter, who a lot of us liked for that #30 pick in the last draft, has been active for 24 games for New Orleans. No starts, averages 10+ minutes, a little under 3 points and 1.4 boards per game. Best news is he's shooting over 40% from the arc, 46% from the field. Probably would have played in Washington.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

From the Indy paper on yesterday's game:

"The Pacers (14-17) took control Friday in the second quarter with a 14-1 run led by point guard T.J. Ford's seven points. They led 45-26."

"The Pacers held the Wizards (8-23) to 38.8 percent shooting, including 32 percent on 3-pointers, and forced 22 turnovers."

"Granger and Darren Collison had 18 points each for the Pacers. Roy Hibbert added 17 points and eight rebounds. Rookie John Wall had 25 points for Washington."

"We knew that we had to defend well and keep them off the boards because they pounded us the other night," Pacers swingman Brandon Rush said. "Now we've got to work on consistency. We can't play one way one night and another way the next night."
"In an attempt to fix his "anemic" offense, O'Brien said he may go with four wings in the rotation with Granger getting minutes at power forward, a position he has played in previous seasons.

"Statistically, some combinations of our wing (rotation) aren't working well for us," O'Brien said. "When that happens, you need to make some changes."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Very astute Samson. Can't disagree with you atall. It is just my opinion.

Saying that Flip would love to find out the results is brilliant. I know he would too.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 1, 2011 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Hoping I'm way-y-y off base here.......

I did not like what I THOUGHT I saw in the interaction between McGEE and BLATCHE. I could have sworn that on one offensive play, BLATCHE lost the handle on the rock, and all JAVALE had to do was reach out to control it, which he started to do. But as an INDIANA player closed in he pulled his hands back to allow the steal. What's up with that?

FLIP had to pull McGEE at one point and this was not provoked by fouls. That was an other occasion. This second benching was do to his play. It was that bad, at least, that's the way it seemed to me.

I would say to JM if I could, "look dude, don't play basketball because your mama was a great player. Play the game because you love it. If you love the money, but hate the game, and you take the money, that makes you a loser in my book at any rate. Do something else that you enjoy because it sure don't look like you enjoy b-ball."

"If you do enjoy the game, don't you know how much you're hurting yourself by not being the very best that you can be? Man, don't let petty silliness between you and other teammates come between you and a great career. It part of the game. Get over yourself"

That's what I would say if I could. Of course, I'm just guessing here, but I hope JAVALE reads this.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 1, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

"....But I bet Flip would like the opportunity to find out......."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Ding, ding, ding!!!
I know I would.

HAPPY 2011 to everybody especially the curmudgeons here.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 1, 2011 10:57 AM | Report abuse

"The Pacers held the Wizards (8-23) to 38.8 percent shooting, including 32 percent on 3-pointers, and forced 22 turnovers."

To the point of the INDIANA homer.....the PACERS didn't "force" anything. The WIZ GAVE up over half of those TO's on what would be termed in tennis....."unforced errors." Their heads were in the toilet they just didn't come to play. I was hoping BOOKER and SERAPHIN would come in an knock some heads, but FLIP didn't give them any burn, DNP-CD.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 1, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Seraphin is terrible(currently), but Booker seems capable of contributing nightly right now. However with all the vets now on the team, will be hard for him to get minutes. Flip is more likely to slide Rahsard to 4 when AB is stinking it up then he is to bring Book in there. Of course, I'd like to see Booker in the 3 slot as well.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 11:33 AM | Report abuse

By the way, anybody notice Miami set a record for December victories? 15, I think.

Remember back in November, when they were talking about the Big 3 as a failure?

What's the difference?

Around here, they'd insist it's coaching.

Obviously the Heat needed some time to gel, especially with Wade missing the entire preseason. But Spoelstra did change the offense they were running and it's a big part of why their fortunes turned on a dime. During the "failure" period, Lebron was often camped out in the corners awaiting a 3ball while Wade forced the issue elsewhere. They switched to much more of a 2 man game with Lebron and Wade working P&Rs and suddenly they became dominant.

Of course, very natural progression that you end up with Wade and James working in tandem like that....but it's still coaching nonetheless.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Seraphin is terrible(currently), but Booker seems capable of contributing nightly right now. However with all the vets now on the team, will be hard for him to get minutes. Flip is more likely to slide Rahsard to 4 when AB is stinking it up then he is to bring Book in there. Of course, I'd like to see Booker in the 3 slot as well.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 11:33 AM | Report abuse

To your rebuttal, I said "knock some heads" not "playing great." But I agree with you that KEVEEN is not good at all right now. He's trying to learn the defensive end of the game at present, and frankly, I don't think he'll ever be much of an offensive threat. But when he learns the NBA game, he'll be a good counter to BLATCHE, IF 'DRAY is still on the team. I like his disposition. He likes to mix it up inside. BOOK is a good role player already, and I too would like some burn at #3, I agree with you.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 1, 2011 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Here's one difference in the two Indy games: Roy Hibbert.

On Wednesday in Washington: 15 minutes, 5 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 5 fouls.
Friday in Indianapolis: 31 minutes, 17 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 fouls.

A related difference -- Javale McGee.

Wednesday in DC: 22 minutes, 16 points, 10 boards, 4 blocks, 2 fouls.
Friday, Indy: 18 minutes, 7 points, 0 blocks, 4 fouls.

I think Mcgee is hurting, only played 22mins in the win due to what looked like back spasms.

However something you missed in the box scores is how Hibbert picked up those fouls. I'm pretty sure Mcgee drew 3 of them on him when receiving passes as he headed towards the hoop. At least one of the other fouls was in the same fashion, but AB got him. That's 4 fouls based on getting your bigs the ball as they were moving.

Of course, since coaching has no outcome on these games, I guess Javale called his own number on Wednesday but then failed to do so Friday.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

"Of course, since coaching has no outcome on these games, I guess Javale called his own number on Wednesday but then failed to do so Friday.Posted by: divi3"

Of course nobody said coaching has no outcome on the games -- except divi, of course, so he could dispute that rather than the more difficult point -- which is that coaching is likely not the reason the Wiz are above .500 at home yet 0-16 on the road.

About Hibbert: one difference in the two games is that Big Roy was on the court for 15 minutes in the first, 31 in the second. Given his central role in their passing game, that's a big difference indeed.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"But Spoelstra did change the offense they were running and it's a big part of why their fortunes turned on a dime. During the "failure" period, Lebron was often camped out in the corners awaiting a 3ball while Wade forced the issue elsewhere. They switched to much more of a 2 man game with Lebron and Wade working P&Rs and suddenly they became dominant.

Like I said -- around here, they'd insist it's coaching.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it's time to stop watching away games...

Draft Express put up Tracking the Progress of Jonas Valanciunas a few days ago. European Roundup: Dominant Donatas is about a month old.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 1, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Of course nobody said coaching has no outcome on the games -- except divi, of course, so he could dispute that rather than the more difficult point -- which is that coaching is likely not the reason the Wiz are above .500 at home yet 0-16 on the road.

Actually anytime someone mentions coaching you get defensive and talk about the players. Yet when anyone mentions that EG picked every single player on the roster, you get defensive about that too. I'm not sure how that works?

And yes, I would say being bad on the road in general points to the players. Being 0-16 falls squarely on the coach. He's not paid $4mill/yr to stand on the sideline hoping they win. A coach of his supposed caliber should be able to steal a win somewhere, like Sacramento for heaven's sake. There should be ONE NIGHT where he successfully exploits a matchup and gets a win. That's known as COACHING.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how well teams scout foreign players even today. Particularly those young prospects who aren't actually playing that many minutes in Spain, Italy, France, etc., where they prefer veterans. Seraphin is great fun to watch but he's clearly not ready for prime time, even with a struggling franchise like the Wiz. I haven't been impressed with the D's ability to develop players that haven't come through US colleges, either.

It's just a bigger risk. I can see why Pau Gasol fell out of the top spot in the draft -- he was only playing 24 minutes in Europe that season, averaging 11 points and 5 boards. It takes legit cojones to spend a really high pick on somebody like that. He could have turned out to be Andrea Bargnani.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"Actually anytime someone mentions coaching you get defensive and talk about the players."posted by divi3

LOL actually, I could assert that anytime someone mentions the players -- particularly your favorites -- you get defensive and start criticizing the coaches.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"Yet, you single out AB, but not any other player. Why?"

Cause he sucks, 4-16 from the field, 6 TO's, and taking 3's at the end of the game?? Dude's lost his mind. He's lazy and his game will always be that way.
- Ray

If his game is lazy and he had the most rebounds and blocked shots in the game, what are you saying about the other players? He had a bad shooting night. Nick Young, Josh Howard, and Cartier Martin had lower shooting percentages. Blatche had six turnovers, but Wall and Hibbert had seven each. How do you know his game will never change? Where did you get your extraordinary foresight? What other players on this team will never change?

Posted by: twomangame | January 1, 2011 1:10 PM | Report abuse

actually, I could assert that anytime someone mentions the players -- particularly your favorites -- you get defensive and start criticizing the coaches.

You can assert whatever you want, but I have been fairly critical of Blatche since the grace period expired with regards to his broken foot.

Clearly it's a players league and the team rises on falls based on what they players do....but 0-16 on the road and the longest losing streak in franchise history are some pretty dire indicators as to what the coach is up to.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Flip was hired to coach the former "Big Three" and a more veteran group deep into the Playoffs. I am surprised that he is still here trying to coach a re-building young team going no where. I guess it is hard to give up $5 million per year, even for management.

Posted by: JohnWWW | January 1, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"And yes, I would say being bad on the road in general points to the players."

OK, we agree on that point.

"Being 0-16 falls squarely on the coach." posted by divi3

What? Didn't you just say... oh, never mind.

"[The coach is] not paid $4mill/yr to stand on the sideline hoping they win. A coach of his supposed caliber should be able to steal a win somewhere, like Sacramento for heaven's sake. There should be ONE NIGHT where he successfully exploits a matchup and gets a win. That's known as COACHING.Posted by: divi3"

Couldn't we as easily argue that players paid as much as these are should be able to steal a road win, too? After all, they're actually out there on the court, shooting, rebounding, playing defense... and last I looked, they're not amateurs. At least according to their tax brackets.

I'm sure they will get a road win at some point. And when they do, we'll give them the credit. We should be as generous with responsibility, too.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"Clearly it's a players league and the team rises on falls based on what they players do....but 0-16 on the road and the longest losing streak in franchise history are some pretty dire indicators as to what the coach is up to.Posted by: divi3"

They're better indicators of what the players have been up to.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how well teams scout foreign players even today. Particularly those young prospects who aren't actually playing that many minutes in Spain, Italy, France, etc., where they prefer veterans. Seraphin is great fun to watch but he's clearly not ready for prime time, even with a struggling franchise like the Wiz. I haven't been impressed with the D's ability to develop players that haven't come through US colleges, either.

I think Seraphin was drafted based on the collegiate vs internationals game he played well in. Seriously doubt anyone saw him play much at all in person other than that.

Perhaps the D doesnt develop players and neither does Europe because at the end of the day, the talent level in the nba is absolutely insane and vast majority of guys who arent noticed early just don't have it.

Posted by: divi3 | January 1, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps the D doesnt develop players and neither does Europe because at the end of the day, the talent level in the nba is absolutely insane and vast majority of guys who arent noticed early just don't have it.
Posted by: divi3"

Interesting point. You don't agree with LeBron about contraction?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how well teams scout foreign players even today...

Just like with college scouting, it depends on the team. Some put in the resources, some don't. Seraphin wasn't projected as a lottery pick, and he was taken before Daniel Orton. I think that was a good move.

He could have turned out to be Andrea Bargnani. Posted by: Samson151

Would that of been so bad?

Posted by: djnnnou | January 1, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"He could have turned out to be Andrea Bargnani. Posted by: Samson151
Would that of been so bad?
Posted by: djnnnou"

I suppose not. Andrea's a good player, but he's no center. Basically not a rebounder at all.

Drafting Seraphin was a bit of a risk, but at 17 you can get away with it, particularly if you're drafting above and below that in the first round, too. Selfishly, I just like watching the kid play. Excitement just having him on the court bowling people over. I sometimes imagine opponents are thinking, 'keep that kid away from me! I'm still rehabbing an ankle!"

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

[of been] huh.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 1, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

I guess I'm open to contraction, as long as it doesn't take MY team. Selfish, but there you have it. I would like to see teams with more veteran depth, able to maintain a level of play through prolonged injuries, and not totally dependent on a superstar.

I was watching something on Bird vs Magic a while back and noticing they really didn't look like much running up and down the court. Surely Bird would have finished last on all the speed and jumping drills at the Combine. Magic wouldn't have done much better. And yet they were superb athletes. Like Isaiah Thomas said after one of Larry's miraculous plays: "you think he practices that?" It's just another form of athleticism that doesn't involve running and jumping.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how well teams scout foreign players even today.

Particularly... Seraphin

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Considering all of the bad picks Ernie has made the answer to that question when it comes to him is...

Not very well

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 1, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"[of been] huh.Posted by: djnnnou"

Hey, you're a better editor than the guy who missed that Nets-Bulls headline.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Selfishly, I just like watching the kid play. Excitement just having him on the court bowling people over. I sometimes imagine opponents are thinking, 'keep that kid away from me! I'm still rehabbing an ankle!"

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Yet 4 years from now you will be blaming Seraphin as one of the reasons the Wizards are so bad, but you'll say it was a great pick by Ernie?.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 1, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how well teams scout foreign players even today.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Ernie's record...

Peter John Ramos....Bust
Oleksiy Pecherov....Bust
Vladimir Vermeenko..Bust
Kevin Serphin.......Bust
Yi..................Bust

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 1, 2011 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"Yet 4 years from now you will be blaming Seraphin as one of the reasons the Wizards are so bad, but you'll say it was a great pick by Ernie?.Posted by: bulletsfan78"

I'm hoping to be praising him as a reason the team's doing so well. Whether Ernie's here or not.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Yi..................Bust
Posted by: bulletsfan78

So your point is that because Yi is "foreign" Grunfeld didn't look at his NBA record before trading for him?

Posted by: nmik | January 1, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"Peter John Ramos....Bust
Oleksiy Pecherov....Bust
Vladimir Vermeenko..Bust
Kevin Serphin.......Bust
Yi..................Bust
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Ramos (32nd pick), Pech (18th), and Veremeenko (48th) are what I meant by the risk involved in drafting foreign players. Good thing they weren't lottery picks, huh? Seraphin's no lottery pick, either, and also no bust. Yi went too high, but then, Ernie didn't pick him. He snatched Yi from the Nets for a bag of Corn Nuts.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 2:32 PM | Report abuse

@bulletsfan78

Hi, there!

I'm back from vacation and ready to award Dumb Post awards again!

Remember to post in tonight's Game Thread.

Good luck to you! (I can sense you're revving up to be at least a finalist.)

Posted by: EestiLaps | January 1, 2011 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"I was watching something on Bird vs Magic a while back and noticing they really didn't look like much running up and down the court. Surely Bird would have finished last on all the speed and jumping drills at the Combine. Magic wouldn't have done much better. And yet they were superb athletes. Like Isaiah Thomas said after one of Larry's miraculous plays: "you think he practices that?" It's just another form of athleticism that doesn't involve running and jumping."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 1, 2011 1:49 PM

Most forms of athleticism meaningful to NBA success don't involve running and jumping. If you put together a list of some of the biggest disappointments/busts in the NBA in the last 20 years or so, I'd bet you'd find that the one thing most of them had in common was that a lot of the predraft hype surrounding them centered on the impressiveness of their running and jumping (along with, in the case of big men, size) while ignoring or undervaluing the importance of things like reflexes, reaction time, balance, hand-eye coordination, etc.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 1, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

"He could have turned out to be Andrea Bargnani."
Posted by: Samson151"

"Would that of been so bad?"
Posted by: djnnnou

For a guy taken at #17? Not really. For a guy taken at #1, where Bargnani was actually drafted? Absolutely. But the bigger issue is whether the Wizards really need a guy like Bargnani. I don't see that they do. Their quota of non-defending, jumpshooting "big" men seems pretty well filled. Will Seraphin ever be a 20/10 guy? Unlikely. Could he possibly be a solid support guy in the role of physical presence/defender/rebounder/garbage scorer? I think so. And there's no question the Wizards could use a player like that going forward.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 1, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

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