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Posted at 4:39 PM ET, 12/16/2010

Open thread: Wizards (6-17) at Nets (6-19)

By Washington Post Sports

The Wizards are in New Jersey tonight for a game against the 6-19 Nets -- a team on an eight-game losing streak and with the worst record in the Eastern Conference. New Jersey has won only four games on its home court. All of this should give Washington a chance for its first road victory of the season. But if the injury-ravaged Wizards are to get over that hump, they'll have to do it without Yi Jianlian, who is out two to four weeks, and John Wall and Andray Blatche.

Let the conversation begin in the thread below. You can also join the conversation on Twitter with Michael Lee (@MrMichaelLee). See your tweets here by using #wizards.

Tipoff: 7 p.m.; TV: CSN; Radio: 106.7 FM.


By Washington Post Sports  | December 16, 2010; 4:39 PM ET
 
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Comments

Battle for the bottom, it's going to be EPIC!

Posted by: closg | December 16, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

starters are in,,,,,It will be Hinrich, Arenas, McGee, Booker, and Thornton….The Nets will have Devin Harris and Jordan Farmar at guards…Brook Lopez at center…and Kris Humpgries and Quinton Ross..

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

So Joakim Noah is out for at least a couple months, Rajon Rondo for maybe a couple weeks, Yao's had another 'setback' and it's increasingly unlikely that Kyrie Irving will see the court again for Duke.

Maybe John Wall is the lucky one.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 16, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Why does Flip have Gil guarding Harris? Should have Hinrich on him & Gil on Farmer so Gil can rest for Offense. Gil is also in all pass mode again so far. If he's going to pass all days to guys like Kirk off of curls then why not start NY at the 2?

Its so dumb for Gil to pass to Kirk and he's not a scorer and wont go up with it. Gil is making me sick. We have no scorers out there and he wont be aggressive at all. Flip should tell him to be aggressive or you will be benched

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Gil is playing so dumb. He's not going to make any shots like that. Even if he's wide open he will miss because there is no rythm or emotion behind it. He has to play more aggressive then that. He's actually playing worst by trying to do less. He has to do more. It will help everything, including his shooting believe it or not

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

From the NY Post on NJ's prospects for obtaining Carmelo:

"New Jersey remains confident it can offer Denver the best deal for Carmelo Anthony. At this point, it would be draft picks, Derrick Favors, probably [Devin] Harris, maybe Troy Murphy (who will be gone by the deadline, but not necessarily to Denver). ...The belief is the Nuggets will listen hardest and longest to what the Nets offer -- then hope Anthony signs the three-year, $65 million extension that has been there since June. The Nets can't make the deal without him signing. And if he doesn't, they still have a boatload of assets to look elsewhere for trades. But the Nets are confident they can get it done with 'Melo, perhaps long before the February trade deadline."

Posted by: Samson151 | December 16, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Why is Nick Young rockin the Roger Mason nappy bush?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 16, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Well if we cant win this won on the road then we will not win any on the road this season.....hello lottery pick....again...

Posted by: redskinsfaninnc | December 16, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Dang, Wizards,Caps, Redskins....losing is the game in this town.....sad, sad, sad...

Posted by: redskinsfaninnc | December 16, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I blame this all on Flip. This team is 6-17 or whatever and still plays with the worst effort in the league. Flip's lineups & rotations are the worst in the league. His playbook is horrible and worst of all he lets Gil get away with coasting. If I was Flip or any other player on that team I would tell Gil if he's going to coast then dont even play. Just sit on the bench. I would never let him get away with not being aggressive as a coach, espically when we have 2 injuried scorers out.

We start Hinrich, Booker, Al, & McGee and Gil is the most passive one on the court? It makes no sense. Id bench him for that crap. Then when he does shoot its always horribly lifeless shots. The same way our team plays as a whole. Horribly coached right now and Flip accepts it. Ill be so glad when Wall comes back. Gil atleast cant just stand at the top passing to cutters all day when Wall has the rock

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Wow. This is just pathetic.

Posted by: ts35 | December 16, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Down by 20 to the hapless Nets and while it is hard to believe, it really isn't that close! Sad to say, but as a season ticket holder for twenty years, we have hit rock bottom. We all knew that the team would be bad, but they aren't even entertaining. Anyone interested in lower level center court seats, cheap?

Posted by: larryrob | December 16, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

I guess Lopez is a little better than McGee....still.

Posted by: ts35 | December 16, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

The Nets were one of the worst teams in league history last season. They're not that much better this season. What does this say about the Wizards?

Might be time to think about firing a coach and/or a GM.

Posted by: randysbailin | December 16, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards have slipped even further into dumps where the refs have absolutly zero respect for them. A lot of extremely petty calls.

Horrible performance!

Posted by: gmac78 | December 16, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

No frickn effort at all.....I can see getting beat and playing hard but this team has no heart....teams come out and slap wizards in the face and they fold like a dang lawn chair and the game is over by the middle of the second quarter!!!!!...and whats really bad about this.....its against the sorry dang nets...Attention NBA teams....got a losing streak....play the Wizards.....

Posted by: redskinsfaninnc | December 16, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

I have been one to not blame the coaching in all of this because I just really feel that this is a players league. Just about everyone in the league is talented. To be an elite team, you have to somehow get a core of talent that manages to be collectively superior than the majority of your opponents.

I am begining to think this is not the coaching staff for this team. Maybe if Gil,CB, and AJ had one last run in them Flip could have had some success.

These rebuilding teams are filled with guys that did one or two years of college etc... and games like this one are a perfect example of how they won't do the fine points of the game that are second nature to vets and this staff appears unwilling or incapable of teaching them. Yeah, they're pro's and all that. Should already know these things but they don't! The league chooses to select these players at this stage of there careers.

Players on this team set picks,roll to the basket and don't look for the ball at all. Javale refuses to put his body on his man and lean against it. Even Gil throws passes that are ill advised.

I expected a rough season but this is painful to watch.

Posted by: gmac78 | December 16, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

The funniest thing of all is that NJ sucks. There starting lineup tonight was the worst starting lineup Ive ever seen & yet they make us look like a HS team. Gil is still getting payed 20mil a year and acts like he doesnt owe us anything. You still have to play hard and atleast "try" to be an elite player.

You cant just say that you just want to pass and are content with that role. If thats the case then give us 16mil back and take Kirk Hinrich's contract because right now you are just a role player like him. He thinks that crap is ok and Flip lets him get away with it like an idiot. Id be all on his butt telling him to play harder or sit down.

I swear Sam Cassell could do what he's doing right now. He's just standing at the top of the key & passing it to guys off the curl or going around & pick and immediatly throwing it right back. Anyone could do that. Those assist arent even real if thats all youre doing

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Twice as many TOs as assists is pretty bad, but I don't think I've ever seen more TOs than made FGs.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 16, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

This great game reminds me of the Bullets taking the Best-of-Three Series against the Nets back in the 1981-82 season. This is Bullets Basketball!

Posted by: jwing14 | December 16, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Now playing hard, but they look like they all just met. I love Gil, but he's got to stop launching threes.

Posted by: larryrob | December 16, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Nice second half effort to claw their way back into it, but the final result is what happens when you sleep walk the first half on the road....again.

Posted by: ts35 | December 16, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Also, how many empty suits do the Bullets need on the bench, behind the bench, etc. I see the same clowns every year sitting behind the bench...what are they? Fluffers?

Posted by: jwing14 | December 16, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Just finished watching the Wiz-Nets game here in Brooklyn. Sad. The Wiz just may be the lamest professional team I've ever seen - this team is godawful! They make the Nets, formerly a laughing stock, look great. This team will NOT win 20 games this year. And I don't know why I'd bother to watch them again. (Unfortunately, though, I probably will...)

Posted by: nyskinsdiehard | December 16, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert has absolutely no lateral movement.
Scouts know this. so if you just get in front of him, it is a charge or a forced turnover.He can only shoot pull ups. His one drive was with no one in front of him.
It is pathetic, and for the discounted price of $20MILL+ per year...

JMc needs for a play to be run through him with the knowledge of passing if the shot is not there. He is just beyond raw. I feel he should just be left to his physical abilities with no restrictions, and see if it turns positive. The current path of chastising him is not working. He misses Jw more than anyone.

Twitch was forced to go small, not that it took much convincing, and as usual it will get you back in the game, but ultimately you get killed on the boards, come crunch time.

AT is a one dimensional selfish player.

HA is only a 7' because of his neck. He does not have 7' reach.

NY should be starting. Isn't the idea to get off to a positive start? He is our only consistent scorer, and he is digging on defense and challenging on the boards.Give him some love and start him , with whomever,he doesn't need to be set up.

Seraphin and Booker along with Jmc and NY and whomever is the best option at this point. KS is the only one with inside presence. The only one that makes big men pause and consider.

Love Bokker's energy, athleticism and skills. Play him at the 3...he can run and jump, and has mid range. After that this team is empty. No options and below mediocre to the core.

It is definitely time for new blood and perspective, as well as talented eyes to reset this franchise.

Posted by: mricklen | December 16, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

New Jersey isn't good, but they aren't all bad. I like Lopez. He is a good player. He's the kind of center the Wiz could use.

Speaking of centers, wouldn't McGee be better as a power forward rather than a center? Is Saunders putting him in a position that he just isn't built for? I am starting to think McGee could be a great four. He just needs a jump shot. I see him as a Larry Nance type, or a K-Mart. But a better scorer than both of those guy.

And I am not sold on Saunders. He is the wrong coach for this team. I am hoping they find someone who can mold these guys. Wishful thinking.

Posted by: PizzaMike | December 16, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

I am starting to think McGee could be a great four. He just needs a jump shot. I see him as a Larry Nance type, or a K-Mart. But a better scorer than both of those guy. Posted by: PizzaMike

PizzaMike must be smoking some oregano.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 16, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Did McGee Just Get Benched?


it sounded kinda like that coming from Flip after the game. He was talking about injuries & guys showing there true colors or something and he said that maybe right now McGee is just not a starter. He said anytime we play someone good, he either gets schooled or gets in foul trouble.

Im actually starting to come around with those who say that McGee & Dray may not be the best mix, atleast not right now while Dray is soft & injuried & McGee is still a little too thin. I think Flip will start HA but I may like to see what we look like with Dray & Seraphin together. Im a McGee fan but he's regressed a ton lately. I could see him doing better coming off the bench with his energy and I think he dominates all the backup bigs in the league, espically with his new experience. I dont mind HA for now for a defensive presence but if he sucks then I hope we give Seraphin a look. Him & Dray together could be a nice duo

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

So, 1st half Arenas ran the point, and 2nd half was Kirk's turn?

I'm fine with benching McGee, but why is Thornton getting so much PT? He's basically the SF version of Javale without the upside. I don't want to blame this loss on him, but I have to think the Wizards had a better chance to win without him on the floor.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 16, 2010 10:43 PM | Report abuse

I definetly wouldnt be upset if McGee kept his job though, atleast for awhile because he probably looks alot better with a healthy Wall pushing the rock and he will also look better when we get fully healthy in a few games and he is the last option who doesnt get any attention

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

djnnnou, I totally agree with you on Thorton. He basically has this Heat game coming up to make 1 last impression. If he sucks then I bench him all the way in the next game when Howard comes back. Just Howard & NY should get those minutes

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

"it sounded kinda like that coming from Flip after the game. He was talking about injuries & guys showing there true colors or something and he said that maybe right now McGee is just not a starter. He said anytime we play someone good, he either gets schooled or gets in foul trouble."

In the immortal words of Jon McClane . . . "Welcome to the party, pal!" I've never thought that McGee has what it takes to be a starter on a good, strong playoff caliber team. But if he doesn't even have what it takes to be the starter on a godawful bottom-feeding lotto team, then things are worse than I thought (which is a scary thought, really).

If anyone showed their "true colors" it was Arenas, who was clearly more concerned about another peceived personal slight to himself than he was about the team or the game when he (A) had a psychotic meltdown and got T'ed up, essentially killing a late rally that could have won them the game and then (B) committed a stupid, needless foul in a circumstance (down 2 with about 35 seconds left) where if they'd played D and gotten a stop (yeah, yeah, I know . . . ) they would have had time left on the clock to set up a shot to tie or win the game.

Yeah, this is the guy they need leading the team.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 16, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

"djnnnou, I totally agree with you on Thorton. He basically has this Heat game coming up to make 1 last impression. If he sucks then I bench him all the way in the next game when Howard comes back. Just Howard & NY should get those minutes."

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 10:46 PM

Yeah, because playing a guy big minutes just coming off 9 months layoff from a major knee injury and surgery is a really good idea.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 16, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

"Also, how many empty suits do the Bullets need on the bench, behind the bench, etc. I see the same clowns every year sitting behind the bench...what are they? Fluffers?"

Posted by: jwing14 | December 16, 2010 9:56 PM

If so, they aren't doing their jobs, because no one on this team has shown any signs of being able to get it up.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 16, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Another game where Gilby takes 19 shots, but none from the FT line. Nets took 19 more shots from the FT line. What gives?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 16, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

kalo-rama, you act like Im talking about one guy. I said Josh & NY. They already said Josh may just play like 15min at the start. Then play NY the other 33. He deserves that right now

Posted by: dlts2041 | December 16, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

The countdown to the ouster of Flip Saunders is far overdue. He is a terrible coach and his teams reflect it. The fact is that this sqaud has given up on him and all of the bullsh$t games and passing the buck. A decent coach would have won a road game by now. How many years and how mmuch money is left on his contract. Please put Flip and Grunfeld out of their misery.

Posted by: NewManagement | December 16, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

...Rajon Rondo for maybe a couple weeks...

Maybe John Wall is the lucky one.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 16, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

How?

Boston is smart enough to let Rondo sit till his injury heals while Wall is stuck playing for the Wizards and a coach that will play him 38 mins the next time he steps on the court, so his injry will never heal till the off season?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 16, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

"How? Boston is smart enough to let Rondo sit till his injury heals while Wall is stuck playing for the Wizards and a coach that will play him 38 mins the next time he steps on the court, so his injry will never heal till the off season?Posted by: bulletsfan78 '

Jeez, it's depressing just to read this stuff.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 17, 2010 12:24 AM | Report abuse

"The countdown to the ouster of Flip Saunders is far overdue. He is a terrible coach and his teams reflect it. The fact is that this sqaud has given up on him and all of the bullsh$t games and passing the buck. A decent coach would have won a road game by now. How many years and how mmuch money is left on his contract. Please put Flip and Grunfeld out of their misery.Posted by: NewManagement"

Speaking of somebody who gives up too easy... that would be you.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 17, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse

I'm fine with benching McGee, but why is Thornton getting so much PT?

----

no idea of what flip's thinking is but I'd say he deserves minutes because he showed effort after whatever happened at halftime in the locker room.

kudos to nick, booker, hinrich, thornton, and armstrong for at least trying out there.

mr. BB IQ needs to sit (not just at the start) until he catches a clue.

arenas? let's just say he didn't show his better side. flip should bench him for a good long while too, but that might be hard to do considering the contract.

Posted by: MinuMang | December 17, 2010 1:13 AM | Report abuse

Coach Larry Brown, following his team's 33-point loss to the Memphis Grizzlies Wednesday, called his players out for an apparent lack of effort.

"I had to get on them at halftime, beg them to play. That's not what I'm supposed to be doing,'' Brown told the Charlotte Observer. "No effort, no teamwork, guys don't run back. They blame it on the referees.''

There, guys. Feel better now?

Posted by: nmik | December 17, 2010 1:24 AM | Report abuse

"I'm fine with benching McGee, but why is Thornton getting so much PT?"

Posted by: djnnnou | December 16, 2010 10:43 PM

Unless you think Alonzo Gee or Cartier Martin held the key to winning this game . . . what other choice did he have? And don't say "Nick Young" because Young played 35 minutes even with Thornton playing so much. Like it or not, Thornton's the closest thing to an actual NBA SF the Wizards have on the roster right now. He also played some PF due to foul trouble. So unless you like the idea of Young trying to guard Kris Humphries . . . again, what were the better options?

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 17, 2010 2:09 AM | Report abuse

In other news . . . Yao may be done for good.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5926989

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 17, 2010 2:11 AM | Report abuse

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