Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: MrMichaelLee and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS
Posted at 12:32 PM ET, 12/ 6/2010

Wizards react to Steve Nash, 10th road loss in Phoenix

By Michael Lee

By Michael Lee  | December 6, 2010; 12:32 PM ET
Categories:  Flip Saunders, Gilbert Arenas, John Wall  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Wizards' road woes continue
Next: Wizards face "a tough challenge" in the two-time defending world champs

Comments

Great. Now they react to Steve Nash. Maybe they should have thought about reacting to him during the actual game.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Did Flip attempt one adjustment on Nash? Or was he happy to have Wall go through this "learning" experience? There was one play early on where Wall faked Nash out of his shoes pretty easily....that's how you counter Nash, by exposing him on the defensive end. It's been done for years by players like Billups, CP3, DWilliams, TParker. Perhaps Wall could have been run a few more iso's on Nash, see what he could do

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

With two PGs on the floor the Wizards should of been able to run Nash through some hard(legal) picks, but the guards never use the bigs that way. I thought the guard play would be headier this year. So far, I'd say that's been one of the bigger disappointments.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

the guard play would be great if wall shared the ball..it seems like kirk gil nick al..sits in the corners waiting for the ball..i wish the wiz guard played together like ellis and curry..they both take turns..one man has the ball everybody watches..and hes not even a scorer but he calls pick and roll every play...

Posted by: MrNoOne | December 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Hard picks? C'mon now, this is the Wizards we're talking about.

Posted by: mugsybol | December 6, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

the guard play would be great if wall shared the ball..

No it wouldn't. Arenas would still demonstrate poor passing and shot selection. He's starting to realize he no longer can rely on athleticism, but has yet to show much in the area of veteran savvy.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Have the starting guards done anything wrong all year? Flip insists on blaming "The Bigs" for not playing physical enough. At some point you have to think that they're not playing physically because they don't know how to. At that point, you should consider either teaching them to do the things you want them to do or, finding people who can do those things. Bringing in Hilton Armstron,Yi,Sean Marks and 3 rookie bigs you have no intention on playing doesn't necessarily signal a wide open training camp position battle in the front court.
The Wiz have to start Ab and McGee by default, the sin is not having them coached up and prepared to contribute the way you want them to. NY had to earn his 21mpg this year and still can't get a start over..........Alonzo Gee. kirk Hinrich and Wall step off the plane into captains spots.Where's the across the board accountability? Everyone needs to earn their time, if that's how you're going.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Everyone needs to earn their time, if that's how you're going.
Posted by: lilhollywood10

I'll bite. Who's earned time without getting it?

Posted by: nmik | December 6, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I'd throw NY's name out there for the starting SF spot. He's scored in double figures all but three games this year he's played over 20 mins. He's working harder on defense and rebounding, and is no longer a one trick pony jumpshooter. His J is silky smooth, but he's taking it to the basket to pick up fouls and get to the line. I can't see how Alonzo Gee walks in off waivers and locks down that spot, especially considering how he's played. A lot of hustle, but not the numbers you want from a starting 3 in the NBA. I'd like to see Seraphin get into some games for a few mins when AB,Hilt or Yi isn't bringing the wood. We aren't a physically imposing team and it'd be nice for Flip to let that pit bull of tha chain for a while to knock some of the other team's guys around. I saw a lot of our guys moving out of the way to avoid being dunked on. We don't have a guy good enough that he's above getting posterized,if you are then block the shot. but I saw the Biaaaaaatch in Al thornto a coupla times last night. So maybe it isn't that there are a whole lot of guys working hard and getting burned. Maybe there's just a bucha guys getting a lot of run and that needs to be scaled back a bit. I s that better.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Young isn't a SF. Really, it's that simple. Even if he does have SF height/length (and that's debatable) he doesn't have the strength to match up physically or on the boards with a lot of the starting SFs in the NBA. Also, given how long everyone associated with the Wiz have waited for him to start showing these kinds of signs, it makes clear sense that there'd be reluctance to move him out of a comfort zone, so soon after he's finally moved into it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Or, to put it in a more bottom line context:

How does playing well as a backup SG "earn" him the right to to be the starting SF? One has nothing to do with the other.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"Arenas would still demonstrate poor passing and shot selection."

I thought he has been passing pretty well, he often gives it up when he sees teammates open. It is true his shots haven't been falling lately, but I don't think that is the problem of "shot selection." Those were open shots, and within his capabilities.

The problem with Wizards offense seems to be they don't run plays, no pick and roll, etc.

Posted by: sagaliba | December 6, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"Arenas would still demonstrate poor passing and shot selection."

I thought he has been passing pretty well, he often gives it up when he sees teammates open. It is true his shots haven't been falling lately, but I don't think that is the problem of "shot selection." Those were open shots, and within his capabilities.

The problem with Wizards offense seems to be they don't run plays, no pick and roll, no cutting, etc.

Posted by: sagaliba | December 6, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Or, to put it in a more bottom line context:

How does playing well as a backup SG "earn" him the right to to be the starting SF? One has nothing to do with the other.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

doesn't it at least make him as qualified as Alonzo Gee, who up til about two weeks ago didn't have a wizards uniform?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

How does playing well as a backup SG "earn" him the right to to be the starting SF? One has nothing to do with the other.
Posted by: kalo_rama

doesn't it at least make him as qualified as Alonzo Gee, who up til about two weeks ago didn't have a wizards uniform?
Posted by: lilhollywood10|

You can make a case for starting Young as a SG, but a SF? When Gee put on the Wizards uniform is neither here nor there as far as Young is concerned.

Posted by: nmik | December 6, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

You can make a case for starting Young as a SG, but a SF? When Gee put on the Wizards uniform is neither here nor there as far as Young is concerned.

Posted by: nmik | December 6, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

How bout the FACT that NY was drafted out of USC as a SF, and is 6'7" and 200+lbs. Not to mention he's playing MUCH better than Gee. BTW NO ONE has presented one redeeming quality or reason why Gee deserves that spot. Because he's shorter and heavier than NY (6'6" 220 vs 6'7" 210). i mean i know we've been getting killed by opposing SFs in the post this year but c'mon this case is pretty weak. Alonzo Gee..........Fareal this is who yall gon take up for? i'm not just bustin stats, Gee doesn't even look that good playing on TV. He hasn't scored in double figures ONCE this season, and I can't say he's been a lockdown defender, or Dennis Rodman on the boards. i didn't say he shouldn't play, but to start this guy, c'mon yall.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

About Nick as a SF: don't know how many of you saw this last time, but here's the numbers from draftexpress (these are all rookie numbers):


Avg Shooting Guard
6’3.5” 202 Wingspan 6’7.9” Standing reach 8’4.6”

Avg Small Forward
6’6.09” 213 Wingspan 6’10.4” Standing reach 8’8.1”

Nick 6’5”, 206, WS 7’, SR 8’4.5”
Josh H. 6’5.25” 202 WS 7’2” SR 8’9.5”
Al T. 6’5.75” 221 WS 7’1” SR 8’8”

All 3 players are quite a bit heavier now than when they came into the league.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

NBA.com has NY listed at 6'7" I'll rock with that. But thx

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

NBA.com has NY listed at 6'7" I'll rock with that. Posted by: lilhollywood10"

Probably in his sneakers.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Nick Young is ADD and has taken four years to get the basics down to be able to play the SG position. This year he is just learning what it takes to stay on the floor at that position. The SF position requires a different learning process in which he will have to think ahead instead of reacting to plays. He has some gifts, but while he has been on the floor he has shown that he can not handle guarding the SF. Gee does make it more difficult on the other SF. He does not need to score 20 to be effective. His defense, rebounding and slashing to the basket and finishing off plays is what our team needs from the position. Our points should come from the SG, PF, PG, C, and bench. If we had a Bernard King, then the SF would be the go-to guy. Not every position should concentrate on either offense or defense solely. There should be a mixture of talents on the floor to take advantage of mismatches. Our problem is getting rebounds, defending, getting defensive stops, allowing too high shooting percentages, etc... We have plenty of guys to shoot, maybe not well, but they will shoot.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | December 6, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

NBA.com has NY listed at 6'7" I'll rock with that. Posted by: lilhollywood10"

Probably in his sneakers.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

That's weird, cuz i was watching them play the other night, and they actually play the game in their sneakers. But what if he's grown an inch since he hit the NBA like JMac and his listed height is accurate? BTW are we really carrying on about 1 inch? I mean is the one inch (that he's taller than the guy currently starting at this height intensive position) really the difference between him starting at SF or not? Seems rather silly especially since Gee is listed at 6'6"............. prolly in his sneakers tho.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

We run 6'2"PGs at SG and even SF....but 6'7" 215 pound NY is too undersized to play SF? Because 6'6" 220 pound Gee got cut by the Spurs? Gee's draft express profile is incomplete, but it has him as .25inch taller with a 2" shorter wingspan than Young's profile

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

How does playing well as a backup SG "earn" him the right to to be the starting SF? One has nothing to do with the other.

82games says the majority of NYs minutes have come at SF this season, not SG.

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Our points should come from the SG, PF, PG, C,

Posted by: 1bmffwb | December 6, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

do you know the players we currently have occupying those spots?AB is our only natural scorer in the starting lineup. It's laughable that people are spewing this bs as a justification to not start the guy. I'd have more respect for yall if you said " i don't like him and we can't trust him". But all this BS about Gee. he's a freak athlete, but hasn't shown that he can do any better than NY in any aspect of the game except maybe hustle (which should be expected from a d leaguer/undrafted FA).But he doesn't do any thing that is fundamental to basketball better than NY.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

How does playing well as a backup SG "earn" him the right to to be the starting SF? One has nothing to do with the other.

82games says the majority of NYs minutes have come at SF this season, not SG.

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Oh Yeah.....well that doesn't matter, cuz it's not who starts it's who finishes! and it's not all about wins and losses either! so there!

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

coach flip has both our best scorers on the bench..ted was right were rebuilding though the draft...theres no way your telling a season ticket holder were putting the best players out there...

Posted by: MrNoOne | December 6, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

But all this BS about Gee. he's a freak athlete, but hasn't shown that he can do any better than NY in any aspect of the game except maybe hustle (which should be expected from a d leaguer/undrafted FA).But he doesn't do any thing that is fundamental to basketball better than NY.Posted by: lilhollywood10

It's hustle vs. instant offense. Instant offense comes off the bench. As to fundamentals, I think Gee may have the edge in ball handling. He's definitely a better slasher than Young.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Arenas would still demonstrate poor passing and shot selection.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 2:48 PM

Really? What have you been watching?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 6, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Looking at those outside shots that Gee kept missing last night and some folks can't see that Young is a viable alternative at SF on the team?

For real.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 6, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I like the energy of Gee, but he can't shoot. Young or Martin probably should not start if you are not going to start Thornton.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 6, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I like the energy of Gee, but he can't shoot. Young or Martin probably should start if you are not going to start Thornton.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 6, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Instant offense comes off the bench

24th in the league in 1stQ scoring, dead last in 2ndQ scoring, largest avg halftime deficit in the nba....doesnt seem to me the team has the luxury of designating guys as "instant" offense of the bench.

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Flip's starting lineuo is idiotic and the spread of last nights loss was on him. It was a 3 point game at the half, largely becuase of the Nick Young and Arenas lineup. 8 minutes into the 3d Quarter and down by 14 with his starting group and the game is over. Kirk Hinrich and Alonzo Gee are bench players, who bring nothing offensively. Essientially its 3 on 5 offensively with them in the lineup and two on five if Walls jump shot is not falling. No reasonable coach would field a strating lineup this impotent.

Players are responsible for playing and coaches are responsible for lineups and giving their team the best chance to win. Flip Saunders lineups are poor, his adjustments are nonexistent and he lacks the heart to put the best players on the floor. His captaincy selections were stupid, he plays favorites and berates his most vulnerable young players. This team is deteriorating asa we speak. Its time for him and his boy Grunfeld to go.

Posted by: NewManagement | December 6, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: NewManagement | December 6, 2010 6:31 PM

Well Damn NewManagement, that assessment is so darned accurate. It capsulizes everything so sweetly and expertly.

Go on Man.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 6, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

24th in the league in 1stQ scoring, dead last in 2ndQ scoring

Last in 2ndQ scoring? Then maybe Nick Young's contribution is being overvalued.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Nice post NewManagement.

Posted by: closg | December 6, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Last in 2ndQ scoring? Then maybe Nick Young's contribution is being overvalued.

12pts in the 2nd last night...but I guess that's commonplace on this squad?

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Not so fast. When you are constantly digging out of a hole just to get near even, then your value is diminished.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 6, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

"That's weird, cuz i was watching them play the other night, and they actually play the game in their sneakers. But what if he's grown an inch since he hit the NBA like JMac and his listed height is accurate? BTW are we really carrying on about 1 inch? I mean is the one inch (that he's taller than the guy currently starting at this height intensive position) really the difference between him starting at SF or not? Seems rather silly especially since Gee is listed at 6'6"............. prolly in his sneakers tho.Posted by: lilhollywood10"

That was my point -- the listed height is probably with his shoes on, while the combine height is with shoes off. A possible explanation for the disparity in the numbers.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

I also noted that the measurements were taken as rookies. So they may have changed. Or not.

I don't know that anyone is 'carrying on' about an inch here or there. The reason we look at measurements other than simple height is that things like wingspan and standing reach make a difference. Here are the numbers one more time:

Avg Shooting Guard
Height 6’3.5” Weight 202 Wingspan 6’7.9” Standing reach 8’4.6”

Avg Small Forward
6’6.09” 213 Wingspan 6’10.4” Standing reach 8’8.1”

Nick Young is 6’5”, 206, with a wingspan of 7’ and a standing reach of 8’4.5”. So he's taller than the average SG but his standing reach is 3.5" less than the average SF. That'll make a difference in his matchups at SF. Whereas at SG he has a size advantage.

As far as Gee starting ahead of Nick, you'd have to ask Flip Saunders to explain that. Not that you'd believe him.


Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"But all this BS about Gee. he's a freak athlete, but hasn't shown that he can do any better than NY in any aspect of the game except maybe hustle (which should be expected from a d leaguer/undrafted FA).But he doesn't do any thing that is fundamental to basketball better than NY.Posted by: lilhollywood10"

I'm not a Gee fan, but looks to me like he gives the team a lift in rebounding and possibly defense. For instance, his last 3 games, he's logged 17, 19, and 14 minutes and come up with 3, 4, and 4 boards. Nick has logged 23, 12, and 33 minutes and come up with 4, 0, and 2 boards. Season to date, Nick is averaging only 1.9 boards in 21.3 minutes. Nick would be much preferred as a scorer, while Alonzo might have the edge if you wanted more rebounding.

There's a faction here that thinks the Wiz need more scoring, so Nick would be the obvious choice over Alonzo. But I suspect that if Josh Howard or Al Thornton were 100%, we might not be having this discussion. Nick would be getting minutes at two positions on the basis of his outside shooting, and Gee would be on the bench.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

24th in the league in 1stQ scoring, dead last in 2ndQ scoring

Last in 2ndQ scoring? Then maybe Nick Young's contribution is being overvalued.

12pts in the 2nd last night...but I guess that's commonplace on this squad? Posted by: divi3

But you weren't talking about just last night were you? It's interesting that the Wizards are last in a quarter where Nick plays a lot(Arenas too), playing against bench players, and that you think that's a good argument for him to start.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

LMFAO. Steve Nash did not win two MVPs for no reason. Sorry, winning the MVP award isn't like the all star popularity contest. Most guys on Les BouleS can't even spell M_V_P

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 6, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

But you weren't talking about just last night were you? It's interesting that the Wizards are last in a quarter where Nick plays a lot(Arenas too), playing against bench players...

You mean like the 14pts in the 4thQ against the Magic's starters?

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

"82games says the majority of NYs minutes have come at SF this season, not SG."

Posted by: divi3 | December 6, 2010 5:12 PM

If that's true (highly debatable, at best, as are most stats sans context or explication) then it begs the question:

If the Wizards are 6-13 with Young as their primary backup SF, what objective evidence is there to suggest that promoting him to starting SF would have any kind of significant positive impact?

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Some interesting stuff from SI.com -- at least I thought so:

"Buoyed by a bevy of losing teams on the recent schedule, the Knicks are on the rise and may be looking to deal. New York has made inquiries to other teams about acquiring a low-cost backup point guard to preserve starter Raymond Felton, according to two NBA executives with knowledge of the organization's discussions. The Knicks are looking at players whose contracts expire at the end of the season in order to keep their salary-cap space for the summer. They are willing to part with Bill Walker, according to the executives."

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Something else I didn't know: Al Thornton had a 41" max vertical leap at the 2007 combine -- he hit 12'1" on the test.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

"If the Wizards are 6-13 with Young as their primary backup SF, what objective evidence is there to suggest that promoting him to starting SF would have any kind of significant positive impact?Posted by: kalo_rama"

Maybe it would shut up the whining for three or four days? That has to be worth something...

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

"doesn't it at least make him as qualified as Alonzo Gee, who up til about two weeks ago didn't have a wizards uniform?"

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 6, 2010 4:09 PM

Only if they're handing out starting jobs based on seniority. Otherwise, how long Gee's been a member of the team is irrelevant.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

But you weren't talking about just last night were you? It's interesting that the Wizards are last in a quarter where Nick plays a lot(Arenas too), playing against bench players, and that you think that's a good argument for him to start.

You mean like the 14pts in the 4thQ against the Magic's starters? Posted by: divi3

No, the 4thQ is new territory. You have brought up two cases where Nick Young has scored well in losses. I hope you aren't suggesting that Nick was "getting his". Some of us won't stand for that.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 6, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe it would shut up the whining for three or four days? That has to be worth something..."

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 9:26 PM

Aren't you the optimist?

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Some interesting stuff from SI.com -- at least I thought so:

"Buoyed by a bevy of losing teams on the recent schedule, the Knicks are on the rise and may be looking to deal. New York has made inquiries to other teams about acquiring a low-cost backup point guard to preserve starter Raymond Felton, according to two NBA executives with knowledge of the organization's discussions. The Knicks are looking at players whose contracts expire at the end of the season in order to keep their salary-cap space for the summer. They are willing to part with Bill Walker, according to the executives."

Posted by: Samson151 | December 6, 2010 9:17 PM

I can just hear GMs around the league when they read that: What? They're willing the part with BILL WALKER? I gotta get me some a that!

Well if they're "buoyed" by a string of wins against bad teams, it's a safe bet that they'll be taking on some water when they play some actual good teams.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Or, to put it in a more bottom line context:

How does playing well as a backup SG "earn" him the right to to be the starting SF? One has nothing to do with the other.

Posted by: kalo_rama

The legitimate counter-question is what has Gee done to start ahead of him? Gee's a player you yourself said would have a hard time carving out minutes when they acquired him. Certainly AT's health is part of the equation, but what in your opinion has he done to jump ahead of Young and Martin?

-----

I generally like what Gee brings to the table, but the Wiz do seem to have a bit of a problem lately getting started offensively. Against Phoenix, they started McGee, KH, and Gee, none of whom are great scorers. KH and Gee are not great perimeter threats either right now. They might be better served starting Arenas or Young at the 2, or Young at the 3 to help with scoring and floor balance.

There are some things about Flip I'm fine with, but his rotations some times seem a bit arbitrary. Imo, he gets stuck in certain modes long after they have outlived their effectiveness.

Posted by: ts35 | December 6, 2010 10:43 PM | Report abuse

"The legitimate counter-question is what has Gee done to start ahead of him? The legitimate counter-question is what has Gee done to start ahead of him? Gee's a player you yourself said would have a hard time carving out minutes when they acquired him. Certainly AT's health is part of the equation, but what in your opinion has he done to jump ahead of Young and Martin?"

Posted by: ts35 | December 6, 2010 10:43 PM

There's nothing "legitimate" about that question because it presumes as fact something that isn't even close to being one, namely that Nick Young has some proprietary claim to the starting SF job and that Gee has somehow usurped it from him, That is, of course, complete bunk. No one can claim meritorious right to any job on a 6-13 team, let alone a starting job. Gee hasn't "jump(ed) ahead of Young" because the rotation of a bball team isn't the order line at a neighborhood deli where everyone takes a number and waits their turn. Hey! No cutsies!"

Saunders has made it pretty clear, both by actions and words, that he likes Young in his role off the bench. It's really that simple. He's found something that works fairly well on a team where that claim can't be made about a whole lot of things. He likely sees the same thing that many here do, that even if Young plays well at starting SF, then it isn't likely to alter the team's course. But if he struggles at SF, then it runs the risk of undermining the strides he's taken this season. Saunders is comfortable with Young where he is. Young appears comfortable where he is. The only people who seem to have a problem are (some of) the fans.

As for this little nugget:

"Gee's a player you yourself said would have a hard time carving out minutes when they acquired him."

My response now is the same as it was the last time you tried to spin that one: I said he'd be unlikely to get much (if any PT) if/when the team was healthy. The team isn't healthy. So he lucks out.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 6, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Flip tells us over and over again not to pay attention to who's in the starting lineup. But do fans listen? Nope.

We're still worrying about who got named captain.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

"Flip Saunders lineups are poor, his adjustments are nonexistent and he lacks the heart to put the best players on the floor. His captaincy selections were stupid, he plays favorites and berates his most vulnerable young players. This team is deteriorating asa we speak."Posted by: NewManagement"

See what I mean?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 12:12 AM | Report abuse

@kalo_rama

Lots of words, not a lot of substance. It has nothing to do with NY having a 'proprietary' claim on anything. BBall teams are fairly hierarchical in their structure: Starters, reserves, deep bench players. Gee went from on-the-street to starter. He went from lower in the hierarchy to higher, that's a jump. No one is saying that Nick had a 'right' to that spot, but he has been playing fairly well, so why doesn't have a better shot at starting than a guy off the street? Despite what you think, it is a legit question. Certainly if I were Nick, I would be asking it. Especially since he has done more this season to conform to what the coaches are asking him to do.

But if [Nick] struggles at SF, then it runs the risk of undermining the strides he's taken this season.

I'm sorry, but that's really weak tea. Because Flip runs the same risk by bypassing Young to start Gee. I'll buy wanting to keep him in the instant-offense bench role, and to a lesser extent the need to have a better rebounder or more physical player in the starting lineup. But, much like with the continuing KH discussion, if the players Flip is starting are not contributing demonstrably better than guys on the bench, it's legit to question why they are starting ahead of guys like Young.

My response now is the same as it was the last time you tried to spin that one:

There was no spin. Pretty sure what I said was that if Flip liked what he saw of Gee, Gee would carve out minutes. Starting during AT's absence certainly qualifies. As AT gets healthy, it will be interesting to see what happens. I don't think it's guaranteed by any means that Gee's minutes disappear.

Posted by: ts35 | December 7, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Flip tells us over and over again not to pay attention to who's in the starting lineup. But do fans listen? Nope.

We're still worrying about who got named captain.

Posted by: Samson151

Joe Gibbs used to say the same thing during his second tenure. Problem is, everyone (fans, media, the players) inherently pays attention to who's starting and who's not, because there's status associated with it.

As for the captaincy, there were no good choices.

Posted by: ts35 | December 7, 2010 12:39 AM | Report abuse

"BBall teams are fairly hierarchical in their structure: Starters, reserves, deep bench . . . blah, blah, blah"

Nonsense.

The only "hierarchy" in sports is "stars" and everybody else." On a 6-13 team with no stars, pretty much everybody is an "everybody else." Now there are defined roles in the NBA. And one of those defined roles is "scorer off the bench" a role where success does not automatically translate to "preemptive starter in waiting." Young is designated to a role that he's found success in. That success doe not guarantee (A) that he gets a shot a different role or (B) that if he does he'll succeed in it. That simple.

"Because Flip runs the same risk by bypassing Young to start Gee. "

No he doesn't, because Young's role off the bench is exactly the same regardless of whether the starter is Hinrich, Arenas, Martin, or Gee. That's the whole point, to avoid messing with one of the few things that's working fairly consistently (esp. since it's something they've been trying to get working for 3+ years now). Moreover, when Young started to get hot, he was coming off the bench behind Hinrich who, like Gee, had just gotten off the bus in front of the Phone Booth. If he had any issues with his role as it related to playing behind a "guy off the street" it's likely they would have surfaced already. Given that they hadn't, there was no reason to think they would if Gee moved into the starting lineup.

You can blather all you like about how you don't think Young has a claim on the SF spot, but the clear, underlying (and really, it's barely underlying) message of your post is that Gee jumped the queue over Young. But there is no queue. Sorry. Your boy can stand there holding that slip of paper with his number, but it doesn't look like it's gonna pop up on the "now serving" display.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 7, 2010 1:58 AM | Report abuse

"But, much like with the continuing KH discussion, if the players Flip is starting are not contributing demonstrably better than guys on the bench, it's legit to question why they are starting ahead of guys like Young."

More assumptions of things that are not true. Playing well off the bench does not and never has guaranteed a player a right to or a shot at a starting job, even if he's putting up better numbers than someone who is starting. Some players are simply deemed as being more effective/valuable off the bench and coaches like to keep them there. This is hardly a new development, however much you like to pretend it is. Jamal Crawford put up better numbers than Marvin Williams last season. Why didn't he start? On a per minute basis, Corliss Williamson was more productive than Tayshaun Prince the season Detroit won the title. Should he have started? Jason Terry put up better scoring numbers than Josh Howard, Caron Butler, and Shawn Marion last season. Should he have started? What about all those games Manu Ginobili came off the bench behind the likes of Roger Mason, George Hill, or a broken down Michael Finley? There are legit, obvious reasons why coaches like certain players to come off the bench, even if it means putting someone in the starting lineup with less impressive numbers. Of course, you know this. If you're going to act dumb, you could at least do a smarter job of it.

"Pretty sure what I said was that if Flip liked what he saw of Gee, Gee would carve out minutes. "

Half-truths, as usual. The question was asked "where would Gee's minutes come from," i.e., who's minutes he would be taking. You answered it (as you often do) with an irrelevancy, talking about how Gee could earn minutes. The issue was who he was going to beat out in the regular rotation to get PT. The only name you offered was Martin who, I pointed out, was barely in the rotation and only there because of injury. And that's where we are right now. Thornton (apparently) is still not healthy and Howard is out for who knows how much longer. So, basically, all Gee has done is take a rotation spot away from another guy who's only on the roster because of injury. Hurray for him, he's won the battle of "hanging on by their fingernails." Once Thornton is healthy, Gee gets bumped back. Once (if) Howard comes back, then it's a death match between Gee and Martin to see who gets cut.

What does any of this have to do with Young? Nothing, apparently, because (until further notice) he's the backup SG.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 7, 2010 1:59 AM | Report abuse

"If the Wizards are 6-13 with Young as their primary backup SF, what objective evidence is there to suggest that promoting him to starting SF would have any kind of significant positive impact?Posted by: kalo_rama"

How about starting NY to determine what impact he may or may not currently have. Given the Wizards are clearly in rebuild mode, this may be a good time to experiment with various lineups that include NY at SF for that purpose. To seek empirical data or objective evidence in the absence of such experimentation seems otherwise unreasonable, IMHO.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | December 7, 2010 2:20 AM | Report abuse

Obviously NY will never start. Flip doesnt want to risk Samson's head exploding if KH starts the game on the bench. Besides, supposedly starting doesnt matter. It's about PT.

The aforementioned Jason Terry played 33mins/night last season, clearly a case where starting is indeed irrelevant. NY (and every other player on this rebuilding team) should be given PT as their play dictates. Keep playing well, keep getting more PT. If that means Gil or KHs minutes suffer, that's a GOOD thing as a younger, cheaper player will be beating out an expensive vet. That's what a rebuilding club should want to happen.

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 8:40 AM | Report abuse

What does any of this have to do with Young? Nothing, apparently, because (until further notice) he's the backup SG.

Posted by: kalo_rama | December 7, 2010 1:59 AM

Backup SG??? The last time I checked, we don't even start a shooting guard or a small forward. Gee I saw in one report came in the League as a SG but probably got switched to SF cause he can't shoot.

As starters Gee and Hinrich are the worst on this Team.

But don't let that figure figure into your and Samson's argument.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 7, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

"How about starting NY to determine what impact he may or may not currently have. Given the Wizards are clearly in rebuild mode, this may be a good time to experiment with various lineups that include NY at SF for that purpose. To seek empirical data or objective evidence in the absence of such experimentation seems otherwise unreasonable, IMHO.Posted by: bazookajoe1"

I think the coaches are experimenting with Nick, as we speak. Maybe they suspect Nick's value in Washington is as a sixth man or off-the-bench scorer, and they're trying that out to see how he does. As you know, coming off the bench is a different set of challenges from starting -- minutes aren't guaranteed, and you have to keep yourself focused and ready throughout the game, awaiting a call. And when the outside shot isn't falling, you have to play defense to stay on the court.

A theory, but it fits some facts. I'm speculating that what we're seeing right now is trial run. That's why the coaches haven't 'rewarded' Nick's improvement with a starting spot. Might not be the role he's auditioning for.

Compare that to Gilbert, a natural starter who apparently wants to come off the bench until he gets his game on track. That's a smart move for a seasoned pro, by the way. Especially one coming off an extended absence.

Who are the Wiz building the new version of the team around? John Wall, naturally. That's been the plan since Irene Pollin got lucky with a ping-pong ball. Presumably, he has to start. And everybody else, in the long run at least, is a supporting player.


Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse

"Backup SG??? The last time I checked, we don't even start a shooting guard or a small forward. Gee I saw in one report came in the League as a SG but probably got switched to SF cause he can't shoot."

Gee is an interesting case. He might have played some SG somewhere along the line, but pro scouts never considered him anything but a 3. From his draftexpress profile Jan.2010:

"Showing elite athleticism with a very well-built body, Gee made countless impact plays in his two games he played, mainly on dribble drives started from the mid-range area, where he took advantage of his long strides and explosive first step to get to the rim...Gee's jump shot is still a work in progress.. he looked smooth hitting some mid-range jumpers here, even pulling up on occasion. He lacks range on his shot in a major way, though... At the basket, Gee is capable of finishing over defenders and is extremely aggressive, never shying from contact."

Doubt that the Wiz put Gee on the wing in hopes he'll score a bunch of points. But some of the phrases -- such as "extremely aggressive, never shying from contact" -- you won't ever hear used to describe Nick Young. Or Andray Blatche, or Yi, or even Javale. Maybe that's what they wanted to experiment with.

If Howard or Thornton was healthy, Gee would probably not be on the court much at all. But they aren't.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

"Obviously NY will never start. Flip doesnt want to risk Samson's head exploding if KH starts the game on the bench. Besides, supposedly starting doesnt matter. It's about PT. posted by divi3"

LOL. Tell you what: $100 bucks says KH doesn't start a game, my head doesn't explode.

Truth is, I don't care who starts. I do object to your feeble logic. That's what I'm criticizing, by the way. Not Nick. You.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

There are lies, damnable lies, and then there are statistics. You can spin a statistic in many directions to support an arguement. What you cannot do is justify a 6-13 record while your best scorers are on the bench.

Who cares if a recent D-leaguer is a half inch taller than Nick Young [who, by the way, for all you stat freaks] has a PER of 17.3. Being the "best option off the bench" is meaningless if we are always trailing by double digits when that "best option" enters the game.

We don't rebound, we give up points and we are almost ALWAYS trailing at the end of the 1st quarter. Let's use our best weapons early and often. Nick Young [and Arenas] will score the basketball. Gil knows Young's sweet spots and he will feed the ball to him. Both Hinrich and Wall are adverse to scoring and both are still learning the Wiz offensive system.

Posted by: musicmanjr | December 7, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Flip tells us over and over again not to pay attention to who's in the starting lineup. But do fans listen? Nope.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Why should fans listen to Flip considering they are one of the worst teams in the NBA.

He also tells us not to worry about wins or losses because it's all about the team getting better.

From looking at the way the team keeps losing it doesn't seem like they are getting any better.

Wait I forgot we have to wait till 2020 and maybe by then we'll see some progess but even then you'll have an excuse if there isn't one...like it's the players fault.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 7, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"There are lies, damnable lies, and then there are statistics. You can spin a statistic in many directions to support an arguement. What you cannot do is justify a 6-13 record while your best scorers are on the bench."

You can if your best scorers aren't quite good enough to get the job done.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

You can if your best scorers aren't quite good enough to get the job done.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

That's something we'll never know since Flip won't even try it.

What we do know is the current lineups Flip starts aren't good enough to get the job done.

But let's keep going with what's not working.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 7, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

"From looking at the way the team keeps losing it doesn't seem like they are getting any better. Wait I forgot we have to wait till 2020 and maybe by then we'll see some progess but even then you'll have an excuse if there isn't one...like it's the players fault.Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Say, you must not be watching the games. Just kidding.

I'm not ascribing blame. Blame is what you're doing. I don't have to make excuses for periods of poor play, because I expect it from a team at this stage in its development. Who's to blame? They're all making plenty of mistakes.

You on the other hand need a scapegoat to justify your ire. And you found one. I'm just pointing out, to your irritation, the flaws in your reasoning. There are plenty.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

"Why should fans listen to Flip considering they are one of the worst teams in the NBA."

See, IMO this is a deeply flawed argument. We all knew going into the season that the Wiz roster was considered by most expert observers to be among the NBA's weakest -- certainly in the bottom tier. That was with a healthy John Wall and the other rookies and Hinrich and Yi and Flip as coach and Ernie as GM. With all that promise, they were projected to lose -- a lot. I recall wondering aloud how Wall would handle the inevitable losing given his history of uninterrupted success.

So we can't say we didn't see it coming. This team's record could be worse than 6 wins (I'm thinking of those two Philly games). They've pulled some out as the underdog. They've had some blowouts.

Can you honestly claim to be surprised? Or proclaim that it's due to who's in the starting lineup?

We're a ways away. Not 2020 hopefully -- that's poetic license.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

My biggest problem with the Wizards is...

What are they trying to do with this team?

If they are going to go young and build through the draft I can accept the trade with the Bulls for the pick, but if that is the philosophy, then wouldn't you start Wall with NY?

I believe since Ernie brought in Kirk as part of the deal he has instructed Flip to play him to justify the added salary to Ted.

Hopefully Ted isn't as blind as some on here and will look at the teams record and the way they lose.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 7, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully Ted isn't as blind as some on here and will look at the teams record and the way they lose.

Oh, I suspect he has a vested interest in what's going on and an even better understanding than we of the team's "record and the way they lose."

Posted by: nmik | December 7, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Truth is, I don't care who starts. I do object to your feeble logic. That's what I'm criticizing, by the way.

It's interesting to note that a few months ago you were all about player stats to justify how we can start PGs at SG/SF and potentially have success. Back then was also the glue talk, heady play, leadership....now with 20 games of results in, you're left with vague assertions about nothing changing the long term prospects of the team anyway and other unquantifiable opinions. Speaking of feeble logic...

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"My biggest problem with the Wizards is...
What are they trying to do with this team?"

Now that we might be able to answer. Not for sure, but a reasonable guess.

1. They're trying to build around Wall. Not Arenas, or Javale, or Nick or Andray. That's why they drafted Booker, for instance.

2. The role they're considering for Nick Young is off the bench. They're trying to determine whether he can play that role.

3. They want to be tougher and more aggressive on the court. That's why somebody like Gee gets court time.

4. They're disappointed in Blatche at the moment but they don't have anyone else to do what he does. Maybe they'll give Yi a shot.

5. They're happy with McGee's progress but not his inconsistency. They're less impressed with his play than the fans are.

6. They're trying to be supportive with Gilbert. For his part, Gilbert's keeping a low profile in hopes of winning back more support.

7. They're disappointed with the interior defense to date. Hoping it will improve, because they don't have anyone else they believe is ready. Seraphin, for instance.

8. They keep Hinrich on the court because they believe he's helping the team.

So that's what I think they're doing. For some fans here, it's obviously not enough. If you're a season ticket holder, be sure to write Ted with your critiques. That's apparently who he's listening to.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

If you're a season ticket holder, be sure to write Ted with your critiques. That's apparently who he's listening to.

That's what I do, and judging from the responses I think your post above should probably read:

1)They are hoping for a top3 draft pick.
2)See above.

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"It's interesting to note that a few months ago you were all about player stats to justify how we can start PGs at SG/SF and potentially have success. Back then was also the glue talk, heady play, leadership....now with 20 games of results in, you're left with vague assertions about nothing changing the long term prospects of the team anyway and other unquantifiable opinions. Speaking of feeble logic...Posted by: divi3"

It's interesting how you introduce misinformation and pretend it's fact. I didn't assert that starting a PG at SF was a good idea. Nor did I introduce any stats to back up the notion, since I don't believe it. However I do think a coach ought to be given the opportunity to try new things without micromanaging from fans. Then if it fails, he gets fired anyway. If it works, he looks smart.

By the way, Kirk Hinrich does provide heady play and leadership that are apparently valued by coaches, if not by you.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

"That's what I do.."

You're a season ticket holder? What'd you pay for the tickets? I'm surprised, I wouldn't have thought you were.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

BTW, a top 3 draft pick wouldn't hurt a bit. At the moment, that would probably be Harrison Barnes, a SF; Perry Jones, a PF; or one of a couple others, such as Enes Kanter, a PF/C, or Jared Sullinger, PF. I don't know that they would take a European that high after recent picks have taken longer to develop. Doesn't seem to be a legit 5 star center in the class.

Of course, there's always a chance they fall out of the top 3.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

1. They're trying to build around Wall. Not Arenas, or Javale, or Nick or Andray. That's why they drafted Booker, for instance.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

So, if that's true then they only have one piece of the puzzle which means it's going to take them 12 more draft picks (6 years) to fill out the roster and by the way Ernie drafts he'll need 12 more years of lottery picks (not the 5th) to accomplish it.

Now we're talking about 2022 when they might compete.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | December 7, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

By the way, Kirk Hinrich does provide heady play and leadership that are apparently valued by coaches, if not by you.

He provides about 25mins of production but is on the court 35mins. Therein lies the problem. And KH is a heady player, but there is an obvious lack of leadership on this team (not his fault).

IMO, Flip does KH a big disservice by constantly playing him heavy minutes out of position. He has looked exhausted lately. At this stage of his career he's an excellent backup PG who can start if needed....but Flip/EG seem to think he can play 35mins at PG/SG/SF and have success.

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"There are lies, damnable lies, and then there are statistics. You can spin a statistic in many directions to support an arguement. What you cannot do is justify a 6-13 record while your best scorers are on the bench."

You can if your best scorers aren't quite good enough to get the job done.

So, you're saying that the guys we have starting [Hinrich, Wall, Gee, etc.] ARE getting the job done?

Posted by: musicmanjr | December 7, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

BTW, a top 3 draft pick wouldn't hurt a bit

A top3 pick would be great. The issue (or whining as you call it), is that it's getting harder and harder to believe the team is putting its best lineups on the floor and trying to win every night. People who pay to see this team would at least like the illusion the organization is doing everything it can to win nightly.

Then again they have been winning at home, so maybe I shouldnt complain

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"So, if that's true...by the way Ernie drafts he'll need 12 more years of lottery picks (not the 5th) to accomplish it."

Well, let's hope not. It was a daring call to break up the team, but I guess they couldn't see any other option. They sure didn't get much in return for Butler, Jamison, Haywood, and Stevenson. But it was a buyer's market at that point. They were fortunate to pick up Yi and Hinrich in salary dumps, but those aren't big-time acquisitions. Maybe they can sign a FA or two, the way the Knicks did, and get lucky there.

Rebuilding is a risky process but if you do it right, you have something to root for at the end. Whether Grunfeld and Saunders will be here then is another matter. Ask Ted.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"So, you're saying that the guys we have starting [Hinrich, Wall, Gee, etc.] ARE getting the job done?Posted by: musicmanjr"

If by the job, you mean 'winning games', then obviously not very often. Six times in 20, right?

I think the coaches are trying to win games. That's why they're playing the guys they're playing. Which should imply something about the guys who aren't playing.

It's OK to disagree with the coaches. If I were paying for a season box (instead of freebies) I'd probably be ticked, too. I'm not, so I can afford to be philosophical about it. Of course, in a season or two, if they're winning, you can accuse me of being a fair-weather fan. 'Cuz then I'll go to more games.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Still waiting on someone to tell me some of the things Gee has DONE in the NBA to earn the starting job. If he was a highly touted rookie i would understand, but what has this undrafted, DLeaguer done to earn starters minutes on an NBA court? Furthermore how has he managed to keep them?
We all knew this was a rebuilding project and that we prolly wouldn't win a lot, but that's a cop-out for Flip to run business as usual with very little accountability. He can always say " We were rebuilding and you take your lumps," irrespective of the fact the he put some really poor lineups together that actually hurt the team's chances of winning.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 7, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I think the coaches are trying to win games. That's why they're playing the guys they're playing.

Can you explain how putting one scorer in your starting 5 gives any team it's best chance to win? Is there any other team in the league that has 2 of their top4 scorers on the bench?

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Still waiting on someone to tell me some of the things Gee has DONE in the NBA to earn the starting job.

Rarely smiles and doesnt pop his collar after 3s.

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Is there any other team in the league that has 2 of their top4 scorers on the bench?

Dallas and Cleveland

Posted by: djnnnou | December 7, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Still waiting on someone to tell me some of the things Gee has DONE in the NBA to earn the starting job.

Rarely smiles and doesnt pop his collar after 3s.

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

He'd have to make one first to pop his collar.

Funny how posters who loved Odom's "run and jump" commentary about Jmac also find enough value in Alonzo Gee's game to justify his starting NBA games.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | December 7, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

And Milwaukee

Posted by: djnnnou | December 7, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards have needs at many positions. We would probably agree that Wall is set at point but after that are anything but question marks carved in concrete at the Verizon Center?

Blown up mid-way last season, the Wiz were acquired by a new owner off-season. Twenty games into the maiden voyage of the Titanic we have the committee to re-arrange the deck chairs in full dudgeon, micro-analyzing each move in each quarter of each game and expecting NY and JM to turn the season around or demanding that EG or Flip pull a rabbit with major hops out of the hat. That's fine, interesting to a point though it quickly becomes repetitive, but if that floats your boat. Anyway it's all we have for the moment, other than looking for signs of talent and improvement in the gaggle of twenty-year-olds and the cast of walk-ons and usual suspects.

As far as scorers in the starting five, is it possible that of the two basic aspects of the game, O and D, the Wizards bigger problem is defense and when you have a twenty year old rookie PG running the team and conceding JM at center and AB, (this is going to cause those on a hair trigger among you to explode) KH provides some experience and discipline that NY and Gilbert have shown themselves, in one way or another, lacking? Hinrich's current starting status is a temporary adjustment in the evolution of the team, by the second half of the season he may be starting games where many of you would like, on the bench. NY, as is JM, is showing more of the polish and skill that come with experience.

Posted by: midlevex_ | December 7, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

And Milwaukee

Delfino has started every game this season except when he's hurt. Who are you talking about?

Jason Terry plays more minutes than anyone on the Mavs other than Dirk.

The Cavs do have 2 of their top4 on the bench...and they're 7-13.

Posted by: divi3 | December 7, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"Funny how posters who loved Odom's "run and jump" commentary about Jmac also find enough value in Alonzo Gee's game to justify his starting NBA games.Posted by: lilhollywood10"

Funny how posters who love McGee and Nick Young have to distort others' points to make their own.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"Still waiting on someone to tell me some of the things Gee has DONE in the NBA to earn the starting job.Posted by: divi3"

Still waiting for you to explain why you think starting is more important than finishing.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"Anyway it's all we have for the moment, other than looking for signs of talent and improvement in the gaggle of twenty-year-olds and the cast of walk-ons and usual suspects. posted by midlevex"

That's certainly how it looks from this end. Weird thing, we're seeing some improvement from those 20-somethings, and it's under this coaching staff. Of course they're not getting credit for it, largely because some fan favorites are not getting starting roles (or if they are starting, like McGee, they're not getting the right minutes for fan tastes.)

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

"Can you explain how putting one scorer in your starting 5 gives any team it's best chance to win?"Posted by: divi3

Can you explain how putting Gilbert and Nick in the starting five gives the current iteration of the Wiz its best chance to win?

Posted by: Samson151 | December 7, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse


there is a reason coaches always talk about getting off to a good start. it really can set the tone for an entire game. just ask the redskins if philly getting off to such a good start facilitated the slaughter that would ensue on that fateful monday night.

quite simply, starters set the tone for the game (for both teams). they can provide confidence and momentum for your team or the same for the other team. granted, the starters might not be your five best players, but they usually represent your best COMBINATION of players.

wading further into this ongoing argument, i personally fail to see how wall, hinrich, gee, blatche and mcgee would be considered the best combination of players to start a game with. there's only one true scorer in that lineup and not a strong defender in the bunch and the backcourt players (wall, hinrich) and the swing player (gee) are perhaps the worst shooters on the team at their respective positions. how do you spread the floor on offense with such a combination?

even if there is no present combination of players on the team that will yield a championship contender any time soon (and i think we all agree that is the case), that still does not excuse saunders just throwing what appear to be, from a distance, illogical lineups out there. it might be that true hinrich is good at all the things that are hard to quantify (leadership, heady play, defense, glue, etc.), but i think not.

since there are no strong defenders on this team, the wizards need to go with their strength and add more scoring to start the game and the second half, as december is a little early to start positioning a team for a high lottery pick.

Posted by: lawdireckon | December 7, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Jason Terry plays more minutes than anyone on the Mavs other than Dirk.

So? He's still not starting. And Gil and Young average more minutes than Gee.

The Cavs do have 2 of their top4 on the bench...and they're 7-13. Posted by: divi3

Now Byron Scott is a bad coach, too. Who puts Cleveland over the edge, Jamison or Gibson? And yeah, I was wrong about the Bucks.

Posted by: djnnnou | December 7, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.




characters remaining

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company