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Posted at 7:53 AM ET, 01/13/2011

Gilbert Arenas to Nick Young: "You learned from the master"

By Michael Lee
Morning brew

Nick Young couldn't resist getting caught up in the moment after he scored a career-high 43 points in the Wizards' 136-133 win over the Sacramento Kings. He placed his jersey on the ground, took a bow, and held on to the game ball around Verizon Center like he was a 5-year-old with a new Christmas present.

He didn't want to let go of that "hula hoop" zone, and was hoping that it would stay with him on the Wizards' plane ride to Minnesota, where they will look to end a 19-game road-losing streak dating back to last April. "I might try to get 50, I don't want to leave this," Young said with a grin.

Young said that when he got home, he spoke with his mother, father, and his brothers. He also got a lot of Facebook messages and found an interesting text message from Gilbert Arenas. "I looked at my phone, it said, "You learned from the master.' "

But when he arrived for practice on Wednesday, Young didn't find that his teammates and coaches to be in such a congratulatory mood. Instead of praise, they gave him a good ribbing for his post-game theatrics. "Been trying to humble me all day," Young said, smiling. "Just talking trash, about me bowing and all that. It's bringing me back down."

Young doesn't want playing on the road to be it's usual downer. He is averaging just 12.8 points in five games away from home since becoming a starter following the Arenas trade (He is averaging 25.9 points in seven games at Verizon Center since Dec. 18). Young said he would try to stick to his usual home ritual by taking shots before the game with assistant Ryan Saunders or Wes Unseld Jr.

He also has to fulfill a request from his mother, Mae, who told Young "how she was so proud. She said she needs a win. She don't want to get to excited because we always let them down on the road."

Young credited his father, Charles, for telling him to score 40 points before the Kings game. "I kind of got my mom jealous because I said my dad told me to do it," Young said. "I got to get my moms in the next time. We going to get a win on the road for her. We just got to stay with it."

Young described the game against Sacramento as "sadly, the battle of who's the worst" and they are facing a similar situation against the Timberwolves (9-30). The Wizards (10-26) remain the only team without consecutive wins this season, and Young it's time for that streak to end as well. "We get a win, get happy, go on the road, we lose. It's been a cycle," he said. "We got to stay humble, stay hungry. Can't be happy off just one win."

FROM THE POST
Rashard Lewis is starting to take on a leadership role for the Wizards.

Andray Blatche is doubtful for Thursday's game against Minnesota with a sprained right shoulder.

Nick Young explains why he took a bow after the Wizards' win over Sacramento.

Sacramento Kings point guard Tyreke Evans offers some advice for John Wall.

AROUND THE WEB
JaVale McGee talks to NBATV, and former Timberwolves president Kevin McHale, about being in the NBA Slam Dunk contest. He says, "I don't want to embarrass myself." His mother, Pam, also spoke with CSN's Chris Miller about the contest.

Craig Stouffer with the Washington Examiner also takes a look at the veteran presence of Rashard Lewis.

SBNation has video of Nick Young's 43-point explosion set to odd music.

Kyle Weidie of TruthAboutIt.net wonders how you watch Nick Young and not like the guy. He also takes a look at the new professional in town, Lewis.

The Star Tribune's Jerry Zgoda with an excellent profile on Minnesota's rebounding machine, Kevin Love. While Columnist Jim Souhan says the Timberwolves are a bad team with a plan.

LeBron James appeared to kick the Cleveland Cavaliers while they were down -- as his former team lost to the Lakers by 55 points -- with a "karma" comment on Twitter. A day later, James was more evasive than he is on a fastbreak.

But James also says something that John Wall probably wishes was the case, as it relates to the rookie of the year race. When asked about Los Angeles Clippers forward Blake Griffin, James said, "He's not really a rookie."

By Michael Lee  | January 13, 2011; 7:53 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Andray Blatche doubtful against Minnesota with right shoulder sprain
Next: Andray Blatche "questionable" for Minnesota, Trevor Booker ready if necessary

Comments

Young didn't find that his teammates and coaches to be in such a congratulatory mood. Instead of praise, they gave him a good ribbing for his post-game theatrics. "Been trying to humble me all day," Young said, smiling. "Just talking trash, about me bowing and all that. It's bringing me back down."

im sure that was flip saunders not giving him enough credit. if it was hinrich flip would be doing cart wheels around verizon center out of joy for his favorite player

Posted by: skinsfan09 | January 13, 2011 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Nick Young: text message from Gilbert Arenas. "I looked at my phone, it said, "You learned from the master.' "

the sad part is these guys did learn from who they were either backing up and/or by watched during their earlier years in the NBA...

NY....Gil
AB....AJ
JM....BTH

Wait...

Young said he would try to stick to his usual home ritual by taking shots before the game with assistant Ryan Saunders or Wes Unseld Jr.

The Two great assistant coaches Ryan Saunders and Wes Unseld Jr?

I guess JM and AB post up Sam before the game to get ready?

I'm sure glad coaching has nothing to do with who wins or loses games though?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Young described the game against Sacramento as "the battle of who's the worst"...
Washington Wizards- a JOKE in the NBA.

Posted by: member8 | January 13, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Yep, pointing out that there is a lot of teaching going on from coaches in college is a real revelation. I mean, who knew? Has nothing to do with the topic of coaching fundamentals in the pros and the many dynamics that are clearly different.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 13, 2011 3:45 AM | Report abuse

Really...so if a coach had good assistants like; a big man coach to work with his big men on their skills, a shooting coach to help with a players shot and/or a defensive coach to help with a players footwork on "D" that wouldn't work in the pros?

Of course two of Flip's assistants are Wes Unseld Jr and his son which I'm sure are the best guys he could find for the job?

Do you guys even read what you write?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Ryan Sauders Golden Gopher career stats...

2007-08:
Missed season after having shoulder surgery.

2006-07:
Redshirted after having wrist surgery.

2005-06 | Sophomore Season:
Played in 10 games • scored three points, was 1-of-1 from three-point range vs. Grambling (12/21) • saw action vs. Wake Forest in NIT First Round (3/15) •Academic All-Big Ten.

2004-05 | Freshman Season:
Played in 10 games • scored his first points as a Golden Gopher vs. St. Francis (Pa.) (12/22) • played a career-high eight minutes vs. Coppin State (1/1).

I know I never got to see him play and I am just going off his stats which I am sure are wrong because he is a great player and teacher...just ask his dad?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Just four days after his graduation from The Johns Hopkins University in 1997, Unseld began his career in scouting, with both professional and collegiate responsibilities to the Wizards organization. Promoted to advance scout in his first season, the thirty-three-year-old Unseld has logged over a decade of service in Washington.

The Wizards’ ultimate source of scouting reports both on opposing teams and individuals, Unseld plays a vital role in game planning and preparation. In 2004-05, Unseld was an invaluable member of a staff that guided Washington to its first postseason series victory in over two decades, and his player development skills were paramount to a coaching staff that led the Wizards to a second consecutive playoff appearance in 2005-06; his first season as an assistant coach. Now, after four consecutive postseason appearances from 2004-08, Unseld’s responsibilities continue to grow.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Nick Young DID learn from The Master. I've said all along that the only way that the Wiz are going to be even remotely competitive is by outscoring the opposition. Nick "was" vintage Arenas against Sacramento. And, guess what, the Wiz actually won the game. The team will eventually improve defensively. In the short term we have to flat out score our way to wins.

BTW how does Saunders explain starting Young only 12 times this season?

Posted by: musicmanjr | January 13, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

we should have extended young instead of blatche

Posted by: jefferu | January 13, 2011 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Nick Young

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 9:32 AM | Report abuse

So someones ability to be a good teacher or coach...is tied to their success as a player?

So what are Dean Smith's stats? John Wooden? Coach K? How about Phil Jackson?

Why wasn't Magic Johnson a great coach then?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

we should have extended young instead of blatche

Posted by: jefferu | January 13, 2011 9:30 AM | Report abuse

if there's a way to get it done before the offseason, it should be priority #1 for Ernie.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Man it's amazing how these opinions change.

When Blatche was killing last year...he was a future all-star and the extension was wonderful...now Nick has strung some games together and it's we should've extended Nick instead...
even though his streak has been shorter than AB's last season.

Even AB's #1 fan on the board is turning on him.

PEOPLE ARE EVEN POSTING THAT WE SHOULD'VE KEPT STEVENSON.

And birds and fish are randomly dying? I'm going to church this weekend.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Dray's avging 16 8 and almost 2 assts for us. Easily our most consistent Big. I was really just talkin bout extending NY rather than AB in the hindsight being 20/20 fashion. I get frustrated with tthe way AB plays as much as most folks on here, and i was on board with trading AB as long as we get fair value back. IMHO fair value has to be a guy that can put up 16 and pull down 8 every night. It sux that AB gets booed at home though. That can't help a guy who's in a shooting slump.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Nah hollywood...wasn't talking about you with the hindsight comment though.

I don't think they have to get a big if they trade AB...any piece will do...they got two years at least before I expect big things from them.

It's not even the shooting slump...I can deal with that...it's the effort I can't stand. I will say the last few games it's been improved...sucks he got hurt though.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 9:38 AM | Report abuse

as for the Stevenson cries, to quote Rick James "Cocaine is a helluva drug!"

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Yeah i had a lil rant a coupla days ago on here bout him, his conditioning, and the organization needing to take a more aggressive role in getting him back in shape (given they continue to invest money in Him). I guess we don't need a Big back in a trade. We could really use a backup point .but then youre rocking with Hilton,Yi,Keveen and Mcgee up front. You lose out on 2 bigs if you trade Ab for a guard. You lose your starting PF and a rotation C.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Yeah i had a lil rant a coupla days ago on here bout him, his conditioning, and the organization needing to take a more aggressive role in getting him back in shape (given they continue to invest money in Him). I guess we don't need a Big back in a trade. We could really use a backup point .but then youre rocking with Hilton,Yi,Keveen and Mcgee up front. You lose out on 2 bigs if you trade Ab for a guard. You lose your starting PF and a rotation C.

If we lose AB and get a good young SF, a good big or even a draft pick...cool. This season/team isn't going anywhere...and this draft is FULL of guys we can use. It's alot of SFs/PFs available to pick up.

If AB goes and we can get a good young SF and give Seraphin/Booker some more clock and draft a Perry Jones/Jared Sullinger...I wouldn't be upset.

I'd really like to get Sullinger. We haven't had a PF that WANTED to be a bully and in the paint in a long time. Watching Cousins toss JaVale aside man...can't remember when we had someone like that.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 10:25 AM | Report abuse

I wouldnt assume NY wants to stay here, he makes it sound as if it's been difficult for him. The Bulls are looking for a SG, likely to play backup to Keith Bogan's 3pt/game 37%FG if Samson is to be believed. Maybe he could go there and get back to being a bench player before the pressures of being a starter ruin his fragile game. Would be a great chance for us to upgrade at the position, get Kyle Korver's 7pts/game in here before the Bulls know what hit them. Gotta do it soon though, i'm sure Ronnie Brewer is gonna drop 40 any day now and remind the Bulls they'd be trading for a backup.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 10:43 AM | Report abuse

So someones ability to be a good teacher or coach...is tied to their success as a player?

So what are Dean Smith's stats? John Wooden? Coach K? How about Phil Jackson?

Why wasn't Magic Johnson a great coach then?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Are you really trying to compare Ryan Saunders and Wes Unseld Jr to John Wooden, Coach K, and Phil Jackson?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Divi....it ain't all about who is better. The Bulls might not start Nick if he played for them. Bogans is a more physical, defensive guy. That's something that they value in THAT SYSTEM. Nick is a guy that can get 20 a game....that's not something that they need someone to do right now. Rose and Boozer carry the offensive load and they try to suffocate you on defense.

Same reason Manu came off the bench. Not because they had a better SG...just because the coach felt it was better for what they were trying to do.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Are you really trying to compare Ryan Saunders and Wes Unseld Jr to John Wooden, Coach K, and Phil Jackson?


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

No I'm asking you to clarify that someone can or cannot be a good teacher based on their success as a player. Answer the damn question and stop trying to re-direct it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

The Bulls are looking for a SG though, their fans and media are seeing the team as lacking only in that area and apparently management agrees. I was being a bit facetious with that previous post, but Nick is clearly better than Bogans, Korver, or Brewer THIS SEASON. Watching him guard Kobe or Wade last month while scoring 30 of his own....and if you're the Bulls you may very well think "that's exactly what we need."

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 11:04 AM | Report abuse

No I'm asking you to clarify that someone can or cannot be a good teacher based on their success as a player. Answer the damn question and stop trying to re-direct it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Since I'm not obligated to make my posts based on what the Wizard organization tells me and/or a blind follower...

of course someone can be a god teacher without being a succesful player.

Wes Unseld Jr was hired just four days after his graduation from The Johns Hopkins University in 1997 and Flip hired his son...

Answer something for me...

Do you really think there aren't two guys out there that aren't better qualified for the jobs these two guys have?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Since I'm not obligated to make my posts based on what the Wizard organization tells me and/or a blind follower...

of course someone can be a god teacher without being a succesful player.

Wes Unseld Jr was hired just four days after his graduation from The Johns Hopkins University in 1997 and Flip hired his son...

Answer something for me...

Do you really think there aren't two guys out there that aren't better qualified for the jobs these two guys have?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 13, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Do you know that there aren't? To base you assesment of Ryan Saunders on his college statistics is stupid.

Just as much as me saying the reason Nick Young is blowing up is because he works with Ryan before games.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

@Divi3

I'm thinking NY to ORl,MIA or darkhorse contender LA LAkers

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"Do you guys even read what you write?
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Sad part is, we even read what you write.

That has to stop, though.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"I've said all along that the only way that the Wiz are going to be even remotely competitive is by outscoring the opposition."

You've got the wrong team for that, unfortunately.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm thinking NY to ORl,MIA or darkhorse contender LA LAkers

You mean after the season or through a trade? Nick is quickly getting to the point where it's tough to get equal value, he's better than the draft pick you could get from a good team.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 11:33 AM | Report abuse

"...if you're the Bulls you may very well think "that's exactly what we need."Posted by: divi3"

So what should the Wiz demand in exchange for Nick Young?

Maybe it's like Andray last season. Your team suffers with a guy for several years, turn him into a semblance of a good ball player, jack his value up -- do you 'sell high'? Or wait for the warts to show and risk having to 'sell low' (as people are talking about doing with Blatche now).

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria! But seriously this team needs to find a way to string some wins together even if half the players are young or subpar at best by nba standards.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 13, 2011 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Hey BF78, you get dumb and dumber with every passing day. Maybe you should lay off the weed. Wes Unseld Jr. throws him the ball and helps run his routine shooting drill pregame. Are you so dense to not realize it's pretty much a mundane task that the ball boy could probably handle? Really, how stupid are you?

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 13, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"You mean after the season or through a trade? Nick is quickly getting to the point where it's tough to get equal value, he's better than the draft pick you could get from a good team."

Divi breaks through with a very valid interesting point. Apparently he smokes less weed than BF78. I think the same scenario applies to AB. Unless you get a player with some upside that brings different skills or intangables. It's a strange dilemma that both have turned out to be decent pros from where they were drafted. Yet, they certainly have enough flaws to make you wonder if they ever could be part of a "core" to any team with real aspirations in the future.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 13, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

"You mean after the season or through a trade? Nick is quickly getting to the point where it's tough to get equal value, he's better than the draft pick you could get from a good team."

Divi breaks through with a very valid interesting point. Apparently he smokes less weed than BF78. I think the same scenario applies to AB. Unless you get a player with some upside that brings different skills or intangables. It's a strange dilemma that both have turned out to be decent pros from where they were drafted. Yet, they certainly have enough flaws to make you wonder if they ever could be part of a "core" to any team with real aspirations in the future.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 13, 2011 12:17 PM | Report abuse

So what should the Wiz demand in exchange for Nick Young?

This: Chicago Bulls: Receives 2012 first-round pick (lottery-protected in 2012, top-12 protected in 2013, top-10 in 2014, top-8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016) from the Charlotte Bobcats via the Tyrus Thomas trade on 2/18/10.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 13, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"This: Chicago Bulls: Receives 2012 first-round pick (lottery-protected in 2012, top-12 protected in 2013, top-10 in 2014, top-8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016) from the Charlotte Bobcats via the Tyrus Thomas trade on 2/18/10.Posted by: djnnnou"

Interesting.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Yet, they certainly have enough flaws to make you wonder if they ever could be part of a "core" to any team with real aspirations in the future.

Nick is playing like a guy who could be a core player. A key difference between him and AB is that Blatche doesnt play the way the franchise pretends it wants a PF to play. He IS a finesse guy, and they re-upped him. So even when he is playing well, people are going to say "too many Js" and all that.

But Nick plays just the way you want a SG to roll. Tight defense on the league's elite scorers, and then making those same guys work to check him on the other end. And burying 3s. If management believes this is the 'real' Nick, would seem like they have to try and keep him.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse


Don't know if you all watched this -- pretty interesting comments on the experience of owning a team from Leonsis and Snyder...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2011/01/11/VI2011011103538.html

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 12:42 PM | Report abuse

"It's a strange dilemma that both have turned out to be decent pros from where they were drafted."

Yes, LOL the real challenge is proving that somehow the coaching had nothing to do with that, while simultaneously blaming the current losing record entirely on the coaches and Kirk Hinrich.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of coaching, I must have missed which players the Bobcats acquired when Brown left that have sparked their turnaround...as we all know the Coach could never be responsible for a team losing.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"A key difference between him and AB is that Blatche doesnt play the way the franchise pretends it wants a PF to play."

I'm pretty sure they actually do want him to play closer to the rim. And he seems to be reasonably effective when he does, even if it's not his nature. I'm not sure why they extended that contract when they did. But there's an object lesson for management there -- just because a guy plays beyond expectations, it's not a sure thing that he'll keep it up forever.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

A key difference between him and AB is that Blatche doesnt play the way the franchise pretends it wants a PF to play. He IS a finesse guy, and they re-upped him. So even when he is playing well, people are going to say "too many Js" and all that.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

This is what I don't understand. Last season...you were pulling all kinda stats on how much AB was playing around the basket...then you say they re-upped him knowing he was a finesse player.

Yeah he's always been finesse...but that doesn't mean play like a SG...you can play a finesse game around the basket. It's not about the organization PRETENDING anything. If your jump shot isn't falling...you do something else. That goes for guards too...shot isn't falling...attack the rim and get to the lane.

Jumper is off...so get on the block. Get to the rim, to the line. Play some damn defense. Taking your post opportunities and turning them into 20 foot brick jumpers isn't the way to get out of a slump.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"Speaking of coaching, I must have missed which players the Bobcats acquired when Brown left that have sparked their turnaround...as we all know the Coach could never be responsible for a team losing.Posted by: divi3"

More straw men. I don't recall anyone saying the coach couldn't be responsible for losing -- just that Flip Saunders probably wasn't.

Here's an interesting take from NC on the Bobcats' future:
"Silas, for now, is just the interim coach, having taken over from Larry Brown when Brown and owner Michael Jordan decided to part ways. In addition to the coaching change, the Bobcats have reportedly indicated that some trades may come in the near future."

"Before all praise is heaped on Silas, remember that the first few games of his tenure weren’t exactly a murderer’s row: Detroit, Cleveland, Golden State (one-point loss), Miami (loss, of course), Minnesota and Washington. The win over Chicago, a division leader, was fantastic but every game under Silas except the one against Minnesota was in Time Warner Cable Arena."

"There are many positives in this young Silas reign. There’s little doubt that the nomadic Brown has the magic touch — at the very least for turning bad teams into mediocre teams, or mediocre teams into good teams — but his style typically runs its course and wears on players. He is defensively minded, and that mentality often works well in the short term but not in the long. Even the Pistons, with whom Brown won a championship, expressed happiness at focusing more on offense after Flip Saunders took over for Brown in 2005."

And that team won a championship, so you can imagine the relief of the then 9-19 Bobcats to see Brown step aside.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"you can play a finesse game around the basket."

I guess you could say Pau Gasol does. Tim Duncan in some respects. Kevin McHale wasn't the most physical of inside players. It's not so much about who bangs the hardest, as who is determined to get to the rim first. That's a good way to pick up fouls and pad your scoring stats.

Several folks have cited the relative effectiveness of Blatche's play inside, vs when he steps back for jump shots. The coaches haven't told him not to shoot jumpers -- just to go inside more. So why doesn't he? I guess we'd have to ask him.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Other point of note: last year's Charlotte surge (to the playoffs) was related to the acquisition of Stephen Jackson from Golden State. Their recent improvement under Silas is also related to Jackson's play (Wallace has been out). Stephen is very effective on the court but also notoriously difficult to coach. When he left GSW in mid-November of last season, here's what he said:

""I wanted to be out pretty bad [from Golden State]," Jackson told The Associated Press. "Things were going bad. I was getting blamed for everything. I wasn't seeing eye to eye with the team. I got fined in preseason, which was ridiculous. It was just a lot of things that I didn't agree with that was going on.""

"The Cavaliers had long been considered the favorites to land the Warriors' former captain in the wake of Jackson's trade demands late in the summer, when the 31-year-old announced that he hoped to be dealt to the Cavaliers, New York Knicks or one of the three Texas teams."

The Cavs reportedly offered Sczerbiak and Delonte West for Jackson. Golden State wanted Boris Diaw but settled for Raja Bell and Vlad Radmanovic from Charlotte.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Last note: Stephen Jackson on leaving Don Nelson for Larry Brown:

"Jackson said he was looking forward to playing for Brown, and he didn't miss a chance to take a parting shot at Warriors coach Don Nelson when asked what kind of coach he looks for as a player. "The kind of coach I want that has your back," Jackson told the AP. "That's something that's big to me. If a coach has my back, then I don't mind playing 110 percent for him."

"Now Brown, the Hall of Famer who has coached numerous difficult players, including Allen Iverson, will get a crack at the talented and polarizing Jackson.

"No matter what Stephen might say to me when I take him out, I've heard it before," Brown told the AP. "As long as they care and as long as they want to get better and are good teammates, I'm OK."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"Nick is playing like a guy who could be a core player. "

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 12:27 PM

HA! I'm pretty sure this is the Wizards Insider version of the "Madden curse." Considering what happened to Blatche after you made the same ridiculous claim about him last season, I'd be very worried right now if I was Nick Young.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

This is what I don't understand. Last season...you were pulling all kinda stats on how much AB was playing around the basket...then you say they re-upped him knowing he was a finesse player.

He was a finesse player last year too, and I am fine with it. But all summer EG and Flip talked about the need to get tougher, especially inside, and Flip constantly talks about that from our Bigs. Supposedly why we drafted Seraphin.....but the reality is we re-upped a PF who was never going to be tough or gritty inside, and we play Yi before Booker or Seraphin- the guys supposedly brought in to bang. That's why I say pretend.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure this is the Wizards Insider version of the "Madden curse." Considering what happened to Blatche after you made the same ridiculous claim about him last season, I'd be very worried right now if I was Nick Young.

Perhaps if I went to the Pistons site and followed their team, I could be negative towards all their players like some folks around here. But since I am actually a fan of this team and not another, I tend to like guys when they perform well.

And if AB gets back to the way he was playing last season, he will be a core guy around here.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"Dray's avging 16 8 and almost 2 assts for us. Easily our most consistent Big. "

Raw averages don't actually provide any evidence of consistency.

"IMHO fair value has to be a guy that can put up 16 and pull down 8 every night. "

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 9:57 AM

And therein lies the problem (both with Blatche and your initial statement). He not only doesn't do it every night, but often when he does do it it's an a terribly inefficient manner that makes the impact of the end result significantly less than it should be.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I don't recall anyone saying the coach couldn't be responsible for losing -- just that Flip Saunders probably wasn't.

He probably is in the short-term, if the Bobcats are any indication. It's not that Silas is a better coach than Brown, it's that he's implementing the style best suited for them which is more uptempo than Brown's crawl-paced offense.

This team has played it's best when we try and run, when Wall gets after it running the floor, pushing as much as we can. That's how we'd win some more games this season, and it wont happen under Flip.

But again, that's short term. If the franchise goal is a slower halfcourt style of play, then it's ok to lose as the team learns to do it well...as long as progress is being made anyway

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps if I went to the Pistons site and followed their team, I could be negative towards all their players like some folks around here. But since I am actually a fan of this team and not another, I tend to like guys when they perform well."

You can go to any Pistons site you like and say whatever you want. No skin off my ass, I don't own any of them. But as I'm pretty sure there's no rule (either in this forum or the NBA) that precludes anyone from being a fan of more than one team, pointing out that I happen to be a Pistons fans has jack all to do with anything related to the Wizards. Really, the very implication is silly beyond words (albeit, sadly, not beyond belief, given the source).

"And if AB gets back to the way he was playing last season, he will be a core guy around here."

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 1:35 PM

And as ridiculous as it was to call him a "core guy" when he was padding his stats on a bad team with zero depth, calling him one now, when he's playing poorly and the franchise is shopping him, is doubly ridiculous.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 1:45 PM | Report abuse

He was a finesse player last year too, and I am fine with it. But all summer EG and Flip talked about the need to get tougher, especially inside, and Flip constantly talks about that from our Bigs. Supposedly why we drafted Seraphin.....but the reality is we re-upped a PF who was never going to be tough or gritty inside, and we play Yi before Booker or Seraphin- the guys supposedly brought in to bang. That's why I say pretend.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Booker is a rookie and Seraphin isn't ready for primetime yet. AB got re-upped but according to you he took like 50%+ of his shots at the rim. He doesn't need to be a back to the basket guy. He can be quick around the rim or use his quickness off the dribble....but he's not. It's not about pretend. Or Booker and Seraphin wouldn't be here at all.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 1:45 PM | Report abuse

He was a finesse player last year too, and I am fine with it. But all summer EG and Flip talked about the need to get tougher, especially inside, and Flip constantly talks about that from our Bigs. Supposedly why we drafted Seraphin.....but the reality is we re-upped a PF who was never going to be tough or gritty inside, and we play Yi before Booker or Seraphin- the guys supposedly brought in to bang. That's why I say pretend.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 1:28 PM | Report abuse

He was finesse last year but according to you he was still taking 50%+ of his shots at the rim. He doesn't need to be a back to the basket Al Jefferson...but he relied on quickness in the post and he could take people off the dribble. He's not now. Even if his shot is off....it's his energy and effort that people are disgusted by.

I wonder what percentage of his shots are at the rim now? It's not pretend to draft Booker and Seraphin...nobody drafts and pays millions to pretend.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

...has the trading deadline passed yet? Ernie trade NY now for 2 #1s--in 2013 and 2014. Maybe San Antonio can use him to get over the top. And Duncan should be done by then...

Posted by: oddjob1 | January 13, 2011 2:03 PM | Report abuse

My work computer is retarded. Geez.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

My work computer is retarded. Geez.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 13, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

"I don't recall anyone saying the coach couldn't be responsible for losing -- just that Flip Saunders probably wasn't.posted by Samson151
"He probably is in the short-term, if the Bobcats are any indication. It's not that Silas is a better coach than Brown, it's that he's implementing the style best suited for them which is more uptempo than Brown's crawl-paced offense. This team has played it's best when we try and run, when Wall gets after it running the floor, pushing as much as we can. That's how we'd win some more games this season, and it wont happen under Flip. But again, that's short term. If the franchise goal is a slower halfcourt style of play, then it's ok to lose as the team learns to do it well...as long as progress is being made anyway. Posted by: divi3"

Well, first, you still haven't demonstrated that Flip is responsible for the Wiz' losing record -- maybe you'll get around to that someday? Or perhaps it's easier to just keep making the claim...

As for the team playing its best when Wall is racing up and down the floor -- you also haven't demonstrated that, either. The team actually played a little better when Wall wasn't out for an extended period. And it took them several games to readjust to his return. I don't think anybody would argue the team played well against Sacramento the other night, although there was definitely a lot of scoring.

Nor would anybody argue (except as a straw man, of course) that the Wiz of John Wall's future will be a slow, half-court team. That's not Flip's plan, or Ernie's, or Ted's. It's not why they drafted Trevor Booker over bigger players, for instance.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 2:11 PM | Report abuse

"I don't recall anyone saying the coach couldn't be responsible for losing -- just that Flip Saunders probably wasn't.posted by Samson151
"He probably is in the short-term, if the Bobcats are any indication. It's not that Silas is a better coach than Brown, it's that he's implementing the style best suited for them which is more uptempo than Brown's crawl-paced offense. This team has played it's best when we try and run, when Wall gets after it running the floor, pushing as much as we can. That's how we'd win some more games this season, and it wont happen under Flip. But again, that's short term. If the franchise goal is a slower halfcourt style of play, then it's ok to lose as the team learns to do it well...as long as progress is being made anyway. Posted by: divi3"

Well, first, you still haven't demonstrated that Flip is responsible for the Wiz' losing record -- maybe you'll get around to that someday? Or perhaps it's easier to just keep making the claim...hoping we'll forget?

As for the team playing its best when Wall is racing up and down the floor -- you also haven't demonstrated that, either. The team actually played a little better when Wall wasn't out for an extended period. And it took them several games to readjust to his return. I don't think anybody would argue the team played well against Sacramento the other night, although there was definitely a lot of scoring.

Nor would anybody argue (except as a straw man, of course) that the Wiz of John Wall's future will be a slow, half-court team. That's not Flip's plan, or Ernie's, or Ted's. It's not why they drafted Trevor Booker over bigger players, for instance.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 2:12 PM | Report abuse

And I must have missed the memo that says being a fan of a team obligates you to overpraise the players at every turn, no matter how poorly they play or badly they behave, while blaming every flaw mistake and loss on the coach, the guy who's not actually out on the floor taking bad shots and turning the ball over.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Correction: meant to say 'the team actually played a little better when Wall was out for an extended period...'

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I imagine the popularity of straw men on this blog has to do with the much higher winning percentage when folks can argue against themselves rather than another person...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 13, 2011 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Re: D. Howard
If your complaint is that he's not as good as Hakeem or Patrick well . . . I think I already covered that. Because he started too late, insofar as learning the fundamentals of offensive post play. He's trying to learn stuff now in his 20s that most great players start learning in their early teens.
Posted by: kalo_rama

The only part of this that loses me is that Hakeem didn't start playing basketball until he was 15. I think what you're saying generally holds true, but we're talking about exceptional athletes and normal rules may not completely apply. What you (I think) said earlier are more compelling factors to me, their desire to learn and willingness to put in the work to become better. The timetable on it may be limited by an individual's capacity to learn and how quickly they learn. But even the greatest players evolve over the course of their careers and add new things to their games.

So even though DHoward is 7 years into his career, it's not out of the realm of possibility to me that he develops a more consistent, true post game. I doubt he'll ever be Hakeem-like, but a) he doesn't need to be, and b) who is? The most comparable example at the moment is probably Shaq, who took a long time to develop the most basic post moves, in part because he never had to. Since D Howard relies a bit more on athleticism than Shaq, who always had just a pure size advantage, it may behoove D Howard to develop his game a little faster. And it looks like he has been working on it. I agree with what you said earlier, as well, that while D Howard's post game is still pretty rudimentary, it's well ahead from where he started.

Posted by: ts35 | January 13, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

And I must have missed the memo that says being a fan of a team obligates you to overpraise the players at every turn, no matter how poorly they play or badly they behave, while blaming every flaw mistake and loss on the coach, the guy who's not actually out on the floor taking bad shots and turning the ball over.

I must have called Blatche some form of fat, bum 100x this season. And I'm sure I've given Flip credit for some portion of NYs play, and JM at times.

Is it overpraise to say Nick has one of the sweetest strokes in the league? That it's laughable to think Kyle Korver is a better player? Or that Keith Bogans 3pts/night would keep Young on the bench? I dont think so.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Well, first, you still haven't demonstrated that Flip is responsible for the Wiz' losing record -- maybe you'll get around to that someday?

When did I say the Wizards would have a winning record with a different coach? No one has ever claimed that.


Or perhaps it's easier to just keep making the claim...hoping we'll forget?

Actually what I hope is most people posting here arent dense enough to think that's the sort of thing that can be definitively proven anyway. It would be akin to me asking you to prove that without Flip the team would be winless. Dumb question that can't proven anyway, so no one asks it.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"The only part of this that loses me is that Hakeem didn't start playing basketball until he was 15. "

I knew someone would bring this up. I was actually going to address it up front, but forgot to.

Yes Hakeem didn't start to play basketball seriously until he was 15, but for years before that he was a soccer player. And one of the hallmarks of great post players is outstanding footwork, which soccer certainly helps develop. The coordination and body control he learned in those years playing soccer appeared to give him a leg up (so to speak) when he started playing basketball.

"What you (I think) said earlier are more compelling factors to me, their desire to learn and willingness to put in the work to become better. The timetable on it may be limited by an individual's capacity to learn and how quickly they learn. But even the greatest players evolve over the course of their careers and add new things to their games. "

I never said they didn't. I simply said there's a limit to how much they can learn on a fundamental based on (A) how big the fundamental gaps in their knowledge are and (B) the amount of time they have left in their careers to learn the things they need to fill those gaps. A guy like McGee can certainly learn better moves and positioning on the court, but given how much he clearly has to learn and how late he'd be starting (if he ever does) the odds of him developing a truly natural, instinctive court sense is pretty slim because he's already lost a lot of the time it would take for that kind of learning to become ingrained.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 3:54 PM | Report abuse

"Is it overpraise to say Nick has one of the sweetest strokes in the league? "

Yes. Yes, it is.

"That it's laughable to think Kyle Korver is a better player?"

I don't know if that would technically qualify as "overpraise" but it is a highly debatable point, at best.

"Or that Keith Bogans 3pts/night would keep Young on the bench?"

Again, not necessarily "overpraise" but not even close to being a given either, as Bogans 3 pts/night is currently keeping Korver, whose career numbers are pretty similar to Young's, on the bench.

The simple fact is that Korver is getting less PT and about half as many shots as Young. If he got the same number of each he could easily put up similar numbers (and, in fact, has in the past). Conversely, given that Young is no less a 1-dimensional scorer than Korver, there's little to no reason to think that Thibadeau would give him any longer a leash than Korver's getting now. Korver is a backup on a good, playoff caliber team, exactly what I've been saying is the best case scenario for Young.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of coaching, I must have missed which players the Bobcats acquired when Brown left that have sparked their turnaround...as we all know the Coach could never be responsible for a team losing.

Posted by: divi3

You may want to be a little careful making that assessment yet, as their recent improved play may be little more than a dead cat bounce.

Posted by: ts35 | January 13, 2011 4:15 PM | Report abuse

The simple fact is that Korver is getting less PT and about half as many shots as Young. If he got the same number of each he could easily put up similar numbers (and, in fact, has in the past).

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 4:09 PM | Report abuse

interesting, just give Korver the minutes and he'll produce. Where have i heard that before. Loling at how folks are trying to find a way to get Korver to produce at a NY level.

BTW i think it would be prudent to use current statistics rather than career stats. I'm sure you know that though Kal that's why you didn't do it. See over their careers NY and KK are about even. But this season, in just 7 more minutes per game NY is doubling KK up 15.9 ppg to kyles 7.8.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Young plays really good defense, Korver doesnt play any (or cant?). That makes Young easily the better player, not even close really...again, THIS SEASON. And consistent defense can definitely be credited to Flip, as his whole thing was to sit Nick after ever defensive lapse.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

i dunno how Keith Bogans can be put over NY either, maybe Brewer (because he's been soooooo consistent over his career) but Bogans? No Way. Bogans is a 37% fg shooter and 29 % from behind the arc.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 4:48 PM | Report abuse

maybe Brewer

He has no range at all, has made three 3pt'ers all season. I seem to recall some folks saying this summer that 3pt skills are critical for PG/SG...guess it doesnt apply to Brewer for some reason.

At any rate, Marc Stein says Nick is no longer available for whatever that's worth.

Posted by: divi3 | January 13, 2011 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm not tryna move my boy. I was talikn free agency in my earlier post about possible destinations. I wish they were winning but I'm really happy to see the improvement some players like NY and JM have made so far. With NY it's kinda like Kal said earlier in reference to Korver, and what i was saying about NY and Miller last yr.

The simple fact is that Korver is getting less PT and about half as many shots as Young. If he got the same number of each he could easily put up similar numbers (and, in fact, has in the past).

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 13, 2011 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Just sub out Korver for Young and then Young for Miller. we've been down this road before.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 13, 2011 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I never said they didn't. I simply said there's a limit to how much they can learn on a fundamental based on (A) how big the fundamental gaps in their knowledge are and (B) the amount of time they have left in their careers to learn the things they need to fill those gaps. A guy like McGee can certainly learn better moves and positioning on the court, but given how much he clearly has to learn and how late he'd be starting (if he ever does) the odds of him developing a truly natural, instinctive court sense is pretty slim because he's already lost a lot of the time it would take for that kind of learning to become ingrained.

Posted by: kalo_rama

Different types of coordination are far more compelling factors, imo, than any prior basis of fundamentals. Post moves aren't rocket science. They're dance steps. What tends to limit players learning the post (aside from willingness to learn) is their physical coordination for learning the moves and their eye-hand coordination (or shooting touch) for putting up good shots. Brendan Haywood could live 1,000 years and still never become a good post player because he has among the worst shooting touches I've ever seen in a professional basketball player.

Howard has the physical coordination to learn the dance steps. Where he seems to lack a bit is the shooting touch. A player can definitely improve their shooting ability over time, but there are limits. Michael Jordan was able to add a post game to his already lethal repertoire in a little over a summer because he was supremely coordinated both physical and with this eye/hand coordination. McGee struggles right now because he's still a bit gangly / ungainly with his physical coordination, and I don't know how much time he actually applies to his post game. But you can see that the natural athleticism is there, and he has decent shooting touch. So if he was willing to apply himself to it, he could develop a very effective post game within the span of a couple of years. I've already seen glimpses of improvement this year in his footwork and releases of various shots. But he clearly has a ways to go.

Posted by: ts35 | January 13, 2011 5:31 PM | Report abuse

should read:

"both physically and with his eye/hand coordination"

Posted by: ts35 | January 13, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of coaching, I must have missed which players the Bobcats acquired when Brown left that have sparked their turnaround...as we all know the Coach could never be responsible for a team losing.
Posted by: divi3

LOL. My nomination: Tyrus Thomas (who was "acquired" or, more correctly, "re-acquired" since Brown pretty much refused to acknowledge he existed). He's been quite a spark for them since the big guy took over. |

Posted by: nmik | January 13, 2011 6:26 PM | Report abuse

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