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Posted at 9:33 AM ET, 01/10/2011

The Wizards' delayed pursuit of 10 wins

By Michael Lee
Morning brew

The Wizards knew that rebuilding would likely be a difficult process, filled with more growing pains than glory. But the results have been extremely gruesome, especially considering that the team has set a franchise record with 18 consecutive road losses to start the season.

At 9-26, the Wizards are on path to finish with just 21 victories, which would match the 1994-95 Bullets for the third fewest for an 82-game season. After 35 games, they are one of just four teams in the NBA that have yet to record 10 victories. Minnesota (9-29), Cleveland (8-29) and Sacramento (8-26) are the others.

Since the team moved to Baltimore in 1963, it has failed to win at least 10 of its first 35 games just five times. The Wizards started 7-28 and finished with 19 wins in both 2008-09 and 2000-01. The franchise also started 8-27 in both 1994-95 and 1966-67. The longest the Wizards had to wait for their 10th victory was 47 games, when they defeated the Los Angeles Clippers on Jan. 31, 2009.

But the Wizards have a decent opportunity to win their 10th game, and possibly their first road game this week, as they host Sacramento on Tuesday at Verizon Center and face the Timberwolves in Minneapolis two days later.

FROM THE POST
Nick Young's road woes mirror those of his team.

After the Wizards lost their 18th road game in a row in Charlotte, Bobcats owner Michael Jordan thanked his former teammate and Wizards assistant, Gene Banks. The Wizards have the same "lapses" in the loss.

Carmelo Anthony might be headed to New Jersey, but for people who thought the Wizards ever had a shot at him, the three-time all-star never wanted to play "too close" to his hometown of Baltimore.

Flip Saunders tells Mike Wise that he still sees progress with his team despite the miserable record.

AROUND THE WEB
JaVale McGee is headed to the Slam Dunk contest but Craig Stouffer of the Washington Examiner not everyone is happy about it, namely Young and Saunders, who invoked the name, Gerald Green.

Kyle Weidie offers and elaborate investigation into Elvin Hayes and the forgotten 1976-77 slam dunk contest.

Mike Prada at Bullets Forever explains how the Wizards used a herd mentality after watching "The Battle at Kruger" to defeat the New Jersey Nets last Friday.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports explains the increasing acrimony between the Nuggets and Nets as they try to make the Carmelo Anthony trade.

CBS Sports' Ken Berger writes that the Anthony deal really comes down to one thing: Does he really want to sign with New Jersey?

J.A. Adande at ESPN.com discusses how getting this blockbuster deal done would allow the sporting world to focus on what really matters: Is Brett Favre coming back?

Anthony gets booed in what could be his final game in Denver. But when asked if the deal was imminent, Anthony said, "Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Just not at all.''

Berger has been all over the collective bargaining agreement negotiations this season and explains why the situation is getting gloomier.

LeBron James is embracing the role of villain.

The Orlando Magic would like Gilbert Arenas to hit the weight room.

By Michael Lee  | January 10, 2011; 9:33 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  
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Next: Josh Howard to miss one to two weeks with sore left knee

Comments

The WoW site was predicting 19-20 wins, so look at it this way: they're ahead of expectations.

The realistic ones, anyway.

The way they've been playing, I've been half-expecting the Wiz to put together a little string of victories once they got healthy. Still may happen, but not until they overcome this psychological barrier they have about winning on the road.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

just another example of flip not supporting javale mcgee. at least give some little support, at least sound a little happy for him. flip is a scrub, if hinrich got in the 3 point contest or somtihng flip would start doing cart wheels around dc in joy for his favorite player.

Posted by: skinsfan09 | January 10, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Flip definitely does need a class in coach speak. He answers questions with too much matter-of-factness. Truth is, I don't see anything factually wrong with what he said. Will the Dunk Contest help McGee's confidence or his game? Probably not. It may give him a short term boost of energy or confidence, but even if he wins, it's unlikely to help his overall game.

But Flip does need to find better ways of saying these kinds of things to the press. Imo, it's not a big thing, certainly not a "That's the reason they can't win on the road!" kind of thing, just a tweak he can make.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

yea the dunk contest proobly doesnt do too much to his confidence. but flip never helps his confidence, he constatnly throws him under the bus, yanks him for his mistakes, doesent play em in the 4th quarter when we need him. other players such as hinrich mess up too, but flip would rather punch himself in his crooked nose before he yanked hinrich.

Posted by: skinsfan09 | January 10, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Obviously Flip feels Mcgee needs the "toughest love possible" approach. It really wouldnt take much to say something to the effect of "Javale is a tremendous athlete and it's great he has a chance to compete. In a tough season like this it's good our fans will have someone to root for at the All-Star weekend"

Which can then followed up with talk about how Mcgee needs to improve in a number of areas, and how the dunk contest doesnt mean anything in regards to being a good player.

Instead he makes the whole thing a negative, rains on JMs parade.

You'd like to see more jumphooks Flip? Well then get him the ball more in the paint! He's shooting 55% on 7FGAs night. Put your money where your mouth is and give him some of ABs attempts

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"Flip definitely does need a class in coach speak. He answers questions with too much matter-of-factness."

True. He might have said something like:
"Well, we take 'em one game at a time. The problem is we've been letting the other guy score more points than us. If we score more points, then most likely we come away with a victory. That's my philosophy. Take Javale, now he's a real fine dunker. If he could just hit, say, 47 of those every game, we'd be all right. Providin' we made our foul shots, I mean."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

You'd like to see more jumphooks Flip? Well then get him the ball more in the paint! He's shooting 55% on 7FGAs night. Put your money where your mouth is and give him some of ABs attempts

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The WIZ would have to play 4 on 5 for that to happen divi. BLATCHE is a ball-hog on the offensive end.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Maybe PAM is giving FLIP tips on JM's psyche divi. Who knows?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 11:32 AM | Report abuse

The WIZ would have to play 4 on 5 for that to happen divi. BLATCHE is a ball-hog on the offensive end.

There's no rule (or is there?) that Blatche has to be the first Big to touch the ball. Javale is ignored (by design?) when he tries (albeit rarely) to get post position. He gets down there and calls for the ball, almost never receives it. Maybe for a legitimate reason, but when a guy is shooting 55% and has shown some ability to make short Js and hooks....gotta feed him more imo.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 11:43 AM | Report abuse

The WIZ would have to play 4 on 5 for that to happen divi. BLATCHE is a ball-hog on the offensive end.

There's no rule (or is there?) that Blatche has to be the first Big to touch the ball. Javale is ignored (by design?) when he tries (albeit rarely) to get post position. He gets down there and calls for the ball, almost never receives it. Maybe for a legitimate reason, but when a guy is shooting 55% and has shown some ability to make short Js and hooks....gotta feed him more imo.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 11:44 AM | Report abuse

"Flip definitely does need a class in coach speak. He answers questions with too much matter-of-factness. Truth is, I don't see anything factually wrong with what he said. Will the Dunk Contest help McGee's confidence or his game? Probably not. It may give him a short term boost of energy or confidence, but even if he wins, it's unlikely to help his overall game.

But Flip does need to find better ways of saying these kinds of things to the press. Imo, it's not a big thing, certainly not a "That's the reason they can't win on the road!" kind of thing, just a tweak he can make."

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 10:56 AM

Why? I find his candor kind of refreshing. Do we really need to hear him regurgitate the same rote script that coaches have been reading from for decades? If what he says is true, then I don't see the problem. I think a lot of pro athletes could do with more people speaking the truth to them rather than less, quite frankly.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"There's no rule (or is there?) that Blatche has to be the first Big to touch the ball."

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 11:44 AM

There probably is in Blatche's mind.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse


Saunders said...I’d rather see JaVale score more jump hooks than dunks, to be honest...

Then why don't you add a big man coach that can teach the guy how to play that way?

Wait I forgot that's what Sam is for.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 10, 2011 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Do we really need to hear kal regurgitate the same rote script that apologists have been posting since Flip got here?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 10, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

There probably is in Blatche's mind.

I was under the impression Flip was in charge...but given the rotations and shot distribution with this team, it would make sense that Blatche is actually running the show

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

"........There's no rule (or is there?) that Blatche has to be the first Big to touch the ball........" divi

Not to him. No I would say he just has to be the last in his mind which of course limits your offense. That's FLIP's "sticking" term saying when BLATCHE gets his hands on the rock there's damned little passing, or feeding of cutters, nor kick-outs to spot up jump-shooters. Just dribbles and fade-away rim-clangers.

Hery I'm not disagreeing with you. McGEE does need to get his hands on the ball more.

The way I see it, BLATCHE is standing in the way of that happening, and I say if he keeps it up, he should go.

It isn't like he doesn't understand, he just refuses to cooperate most of the time. And when he pulls that shyt, the WIZ lose more often than not. When he gets with the team deal, they win more often than not.

I just don't think he cares one way or the other. The checks are still good. If his contract was structured another way maybe he'd invest in team play more.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 12:43 PM | Report abuse

"I was under the impression Flip was in charge...but given the rotations and shot distribution with this team, it would make sense that Blatche is actually running the show"

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 12:40 PM

"A" for effort but a bit wide of the mark.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Regarding BLATCHE, as it stands right now if I were ERNIE, I'd trade 'DRAY for a team-oriented #4 to run with LEWIS. Keep SERAPHIN at the third option.

We need someone to work with McGEE at the #5 and move ARMSTRONG to the third option. Wait until the draft to get one.

And let's move JIANLIAN and maybe THORNTON for a back-up pg that's at least decent, and let BOOKER get some serious burn at the #3.

Of course, it's easy for me to say.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Wait..did I miss something? JM is shooting 55% bc when they do pass the ball to him in the post or run a play for him he makes nice efficient low post moves and when it's not there he is able to pass out of a bad set up? Is that the JM you guys are seeing on the court? Good lord. Grow a brain.

He shoots 55% bc 95% of his shots are lob dunks in trasition or putbacks. When you looke at it that way, his 55% shooting is actually pathetic! Running any part of the offense through him is stupid. And, this is not a AB endorsement either.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Flip Saunder's comments are spot on. JM is exactly the type of player that can receive the wrong message for being in the dunk contest and, hence, a word of warning from his coach. Sorry, but I don't think JM is too bright a player.

I know BF78, if he had the mysterious big man coach, he would be the next Kareem. The truth is he has been coached for a long long time by some very good coaches I'm sure including his mother. If he lacks fundamentals, it's bc he just ain't that smart. There is athleticism and then the pairing of that with smarts, coordination, and fundamentals. JM is just lacking in some required skills and doesn't exactly show the over the top drive necessary to garner them either. Hell, I taught myself how to hit the hook shot after watching Kareem. It's not exactly rocket science!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Flip Saunder's comments are spot on. JM is exactly the type of player that can receive the wrong message for being in the dunk contest and, hence, a word of warning from his coach. Sorry, but I don't think JM is too bright a player.

I know BF78, if he had the mysterious big man coach, he would be the next Kareem. The truth is he has been coached for a long long time by some very good coaches I'm sure including his mother. If he lacks fundamentals, it's bc he just ain't that smart. There is athleticism and then the pairing of that with smarts, coordination, and fundamentals. JM is just lacking in some required skills and doesn't exactly show the over the top drive necessary to garner them either. I taught myself how to hit the hook shot after watching Kareem. It's not exactly rocket science!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

The Charlotte Bobcats are 4-2 since Larry Brown got fired.

This was a listless 9-19 team that was being ground down by Brown. Point guard D.J. Augustin was playing trying not to make a mistake, because every time he did Brown was all over him. Or benching him. That same attitude seemed to permeate the team.

Stephen Jackson said Sunday the Bobcats had to let Brown go.

“It’s kind of like losing a team. Nobody wanted to play no more,” Jackson said. “Everybody wanted to play a different style than we were playing. We didn’t agree with what was going on. Obviously, it wasn’t working, so we needed a change. We had to figure something out….

“We’re younger and we have to play a little faster,” Jackson said. “The makeup of the team is different and I think now with Paul (Silas) as coach the young guys have more confidence to go out there and play basketball and not worry about coming out of the game.”
Silas is letting the players make some mistakes without fear of repercussions. The tempo has picked up and so has the offensive efficiency.

Any of this sound familiar?

Posted by: closg | January 10, 2011 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Any of this sound familiar? Posted by: closg

Sure, Sounds like Larry coached himself out of yet another job.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 10, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Wait..did I miss something? JM is shooting 55% bc when they do pass the ball to him in the post or run a play for him he makes nice efficient low post moves and when it's not there he is able to pass out of a bad set up? Is that the JM you guys are seeing on the court? Good lord. Grow a brain.

He shoots 55% bc 95% of his shots are lob dunks in trasition or putbacks. When you looke at it that way, his 55% shooting is actually pathetic! Running any part of the offense through him is stupid. And, this is not a AB endorsement either.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

So, lob dunks are bad? He certainly isn't going to improve running the offense through BLATCHE or LEWIS either.

If he's not the man, get a LEE-type who is. At least let's the five be an effective shared position.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

By the way, what is with all the whining about Hinrich? The dude exemplifies fundamnentals, professionalism, toughness, and leadership which has made him a good player (and the reason we acquired him). You see, KH has managed to max out his abilities unlike AB, JM, and NY and it would be wise for them to emulate him since they are lacking many of the qualities he has. Qualities that would make those players much better than they currently are. It's no mystery to me why FS tries to use him as an example.

Then again, there are a lot of armchair experts in here yapping about things for which they know little to nothing. And, can't formulate rational thoughts. Mostly just emotional blather.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like the Bobcats players may have drank their own Kool-Aid after last year's playoff appearance.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"He shoots 55% bc 95% of his shots are lob dunks in trasition or putbacks. When you looke at it that way, his 55% shooting is actually pathetic! Running any part of the offense through him is stupid. And, this is not a AB endorsement either."

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:06 PM

Yep. Any time the ball actually has to break contact with his hand before making contact with the rim is a low percentage shot for McGee.


"If he's not the man, get a LEE-type who is. At least let's the five be an effective shared position."

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 1:35 PM

David Lee is not "the man" and he's not really a C, either.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

@glawrence007,

Here we go. "So, lob dunks are bad." Yeah, that is exactly what I said. How many times a game do you get a lob dunk in a half court set play??? How many? Maybe a couple of times a week?

The propostion set forth earlier in the thread was to run more plays through JM as if that would improve the team's offensive efficiency (after all he shoots 55%), which is simply ludicrous. I am not an AB fan, particularly now that he has digressed. But, there are things he can do in the context of running an offense through him that JM can't dream of doing. Remember the last 35 games of last season?

The fact that there are no easy solutions on the team right now just emphasis the point that the team is in the first year of a rebuild.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I think Lackadraysical (aka Mr. Finesse) should get a small fine everytime he shoots a fadeaway or a shot outside 15 feet. He should get bonuses anytime he gets to the line, or shows any sign of physicality.

Posted by: audacitea | January 10, 2011 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Good lord. Grow a brain.

He shoots 55% bc 95% of his shots are lob dunks in trasition or putbacks.

Actually 56% his shots are dunks or putbacks.

When you looke at it that way, his 55% shooting is actually pathetic! Running any part of the offense through him is stupid.

If you look at it that way, you're just pulling nonsense out of your ass based upon how you feel rather than what actually takes place on court. In other words, being stupid.

The fact is Javale shoots 53% inside of 10ft on shots other than dunks or layups. For anyone in need of a brain, what that means is on shots not consisting of dunks in transition or putbacks. If Flip wants to see more jumphooks, get him the ball more and see what happens.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that's the message. Bonuses for doing what he should do. Like free money for being there for your kids as a single dad. I totally agree!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Then again, there are a lot of armchair experts in here yapping about things for which they know little to nothing. And, can't formulate rational thoughts. Mostly just emotional blather.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Oh, but you do! LMAO

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 2:01 PM | Report abuse

rphilli ESAD

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 2:04 PM | Report abuse

The fact that there are no easy solutions on the team right now just emphasis the point that the team is in the first year of a rebuild.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

When are there EVER easy solutions in the NBA. If it were easy, I'd be running a championship club, and you'd be cleaning up the litter in the gym.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Actually 56% his shots are dunks or putbacks.


Hmmm...brainiac is doing some digging. Thanks though! That just means the shots he misses are the shots that aren't dunks or putbacks just as I stated and anyone with eyes can see (including his professional basketball coach). But, keep digging. You might make sense eventually. At least, to yourself.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Only hack organization like the Lakers provide bonuses for players doing what they should do.

http://www.nesn.com/2010/06/phil-jackson-offering-50-to-players-for-every-offensive-charge-taken-.html

Posted by: audacitea | January 10, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

That just means the shots he misses are the shots that aren't dunks or putbacks just as I stated and anyone with eyes can see (including his professional basketball coach). But, keep digging. You might make sense eventually. At least, to yourself.

Actually what it means is that he hits 53% of his shots within 10ft that are not dunks or putbacks. He shoots 63% on dunks, layups, putbacks.

And no one suggested the offense should be run through Javale, that was just something you made up. The suggestion to Flip is that if he wants to see more jumphooks, then get Mcgee the ball in the paint more often. Worst that could happen is we lose games...but at least we'd be TRYING to get the interior going.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

@glawrence,

Without getting too far into a pissing match. Yes, I have played a lot of basketball and watched a lot more. I have also been fairly sucessful. And, I write reasoned and rational things in here. Not repetitive nonsense with no context or perspective.

So, rather than make a valid point you just come back with superfluous bs.

Here is one solution for your championship club Mr. GM - "If he's not the man, get a LEE-type who is. At least let's the five be an effective shared position."

Hilarious!

By the way, what is "let's" in this context?

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

And no one suggested the offense should be run through Javale, that was just something you made up.

I present to you your own statement witness:

"You'd like to see more jumphooks Flip? Well then get him the ball more in the paint! He's shooting 55% on 7FGAs night. Put your money where your mouth is and give him some of ABs attempts"

What exactly does "get him he ball more in the paint" mean? Or, "give him some of AB's attempts." Woudn't that require running more plays for JM? After all, he is "shooting 55% on 7 FGAs a night."

Liar!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

The fact is FS doesn't run plays for JM bc you can't. And, JM is only starting bc there are no other options. Although, I know that doesn't square with your love affair with JM, divi.

Hopefully, by the end of the season, Seraphin gets more playing time bc JM might not be what we would like him to be. Now or ever.

Hell, if he could just learn the pick and roll with JW, he could be an asset. But, I've never seen anyone set a worse pick than JM. He actually gets out of the way he is so afraid of contact. Those basic character traits I'm afraid can't be taught.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

And no one suggested the offense should be run through Javale, that was just something you made up.

I present to you your own statement witness:

"You'd like to see more jumphooks Flip? Well then get him the ball more in the paint! He's shooting 55% on 7FGAs night. Put your money where your mouth is and give him some of ABs attempts"

What exactly does "get him he ball more in the paint" mean? Or, "give him some of AB's attempts." Woudn't that require running more plays for JM? After all, he is "shooting 55% on 7 FGAs a night."

Liar!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

you can't be serious..........the words are right there. You quoted it. How can you try to spin it any other way. We gotta get some wins. folks are gettin cabin fever.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 10, 2011 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully, by the end of the season, Seraphin gets more playing time bc JM might not be what we would like him to be. Now or ever.

I have troubling following you...seems one day NY is the worst player in the nba, the next you like him. Mcgee is just horrible, then he's showing real improvement, but now he's horrible again. Yi is a dud, then he's such a smart player we can use him, but then he;s a dud again....or wait, is Yi good again? Or was I thinking of Booker? I know it changes game to game depending on where you happen to be sitting.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 2:45 PM | Report abuse

And, you want him to get some of AB's attempts? Well, for all his flaws, who do you think opposing teams would rather have the ball 10 ft from the basket on a set play? AB or JM?

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"Do we really need to hear kal regurgitate the same rote script that apologists have been posting since Flip got here?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Do we really need to hear bulletsfan78 regurgitate the same rote script that he's been posting since shortly after we began to realize that the Wiz weren't a very good team?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

@divi,

Nice try sweetheart. Their play is inconsistent, therefore, my opinion changes. That is allowed is it not? What has never changed is the opinion that they all need to improve and significantly. And, get this, be more consistent!

By the way, I stated last season that that was the time to trade AB bc his value would never be higher. Got many arguments to the contrary. Now some of those same people are pissed bc he got an extension. Huh?

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh, but you do! LMAO

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 2:01 PM | Report abuse

glawrence007,

Why would you want to pick on another Wizard apologist?

I know BF78, if he had the mysterious big man coach, he would be the next Kareem.

I'd settle for Marcus Camby

The truth is he has been coached for a long long time by some very good coaches I'm sure including his mother.

That settles it since a player has been coached already why should Flip's team of assistants do anything else?

If he lacks fundamentals, it's bc he just ain't that smart. There is athleticism and then the pairing of that with smarts, coordination, and fundamentals. JM is just lacking in some required skills and doesn't exactly show the over the top drive necessary to garner them either.

So you agree with me that he is another one of Ernie's bust draft picks.

Hell, I taught myself how to hit the hook shot after watching Kareem. It's not exactly rocket science!

And what NBA team do you play for?


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 10, 2011 3:02 PM | Report abuse

"Do we really need to hear kal regurgitate the same rote script that apologists have been posting since Flip got here?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Do we really need to hear bulletsfan78 regurgitate the same rote script that he's been posting since shortly after we began to realize that the Wiz weren't a very good team?


Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Come on Samson...is that the best you could come up with?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 10, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Well, I think the issue in question is Javale's potential as an offensive player. Divi3 thinks he might eventually become a better player than John Wall. Operating from that perspective, it's a crying shame that he's not getting his chance to show how good he is. Others here feel he may already have reached his ceiling (or close to it) as a somewhat one-dimensional shotblocker with a flair for the dunk. Starting from there, we should be searching around for somebody else to play center, at least part of the time. Especially since Blatche has been struggling.

In favor of the first argument, McGee's only had 65 starts and averaged only 18 minutes for his career -- not a lot. On the other hand, he's played in 169 games and has 32 starts this season alone, in which he's averaged 27 minutes and 9 points -- also not a lot, for somebody as active on the offensive boards as Javale is.

I suspect the team isn't ready to give up on him, but also that they're considering other options to beef up offensive production inside.

The Dunk contest is pretty much irrelevant -- just a player exhibiting a skill at which he already excels, and not one that has any bearing in game situations. Good luck to him.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"Come on Samson...is that the best you could come up with?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Come on, bulletsfan78... is that the best, etc?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 3:16 PM | Report abuse

I have played a lot of basketball and watched a lot more.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey that was Flip's answer when Ernie asked him why he should be the next Wizards head coach.


next...

I write reasoned and rational things in here. Not repetitive nonsense with no context or perspective.

Hilarious!

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I agree that part of your post is Hilarious!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 10, 2011 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Since we do not get the Wiz on TV with
Atlantic, I have changed over to the Nets who will next season be in my home town of Brooklyn I was a 20 yr season ticket holder with Wash, but enoughbad B-Ball is enough!

Posted by: HLSHAP | January 10, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Since we do not get the Wiz on TV with
Atlantic, I have changed over to the Nets who will next season be in my home town of Brooklyn I was a 20 yr season ticket holder with Wash, but enoughbad B-Ball is enough!

Posted by: HLSHAP | January 10, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Hilsrious, the whole damned thing, me, rphilli and the others. None of us will make decisions for the WIZARDS owner, or management. We're just blogging here, not running the show.

So when a person states a position or agrees with another poster, it does no good to comment about the "morons" doing the commenting. Agree or disagree without sounding condecending, or name-calling. That just begats the same in kind.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 10, 2011 3:47 PM | Report abuse

@kalo_rama,

The biggest problem with the Bobcats is their poing guard is playing for the NY Knicks.. I can't believe Jordan let him go...

And he is a major reason the Knicks are on the up swing..

Posted by: kevenjones | January 10, 2011 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I wonder why is it that the Clips seem to use the alleyoop as a winning part of their gameplan and folks here like to trash that concept here with McGee. Some even consider it a negative concept in ball according to there comments.

Blake is a double double guy and I'm sure the dunk plays a measureable role in it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 10, 2011 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Why? I find his candor kind of refreshing. Do we really need to hear him regurgitate the same rote script that coaches have been reading from for decades? If what he says is true, then I don't see the problem. I think a lot of pro athletes could do with more people speaking the truth to them rather than less, quite frankly.

Posted by: kalo_rama

His kind of candor may be refreshing (I remember people saying the same about Jim Zorn) but over the long term, it tends to grate on people, especially the people he's talking about. Eventually, right or wrong, people tend to tune out the message because they're tired of listening to the messenger. It doesn't excuse the players from anything, just sayin'.

Has JaVale been playing well this season? In spurts. Overall, imo, and probably the opinion of most, he's shown improvement and better effort. So now he has something that doesn't really affect his game or the team at all, but it's a nice perk, and Flip basically kicked dirt on it for no particularly good effect. I'm not saying he has to give JaVale a hug or a Lifesaver or anything, just saying it seemed unnecessarily harsh.

Mind you, that's based on the clip that was quoted. Very often with Flip quotes, if I can find the original complete videos of the interview, he does say more good things about players than he's given credit for here, but the meaty parts tend towards the negative side.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 4:04 PM | Report abuse

And why is it right for Flop not to respond positively to McGee's dunk contest selection again? Are you folks for real?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 10, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"So when a person states a position or agrees with another poster, it does no good to comment about the "morons" doing the commenting. Agree or disagree without sounding condecending, or name-calling. That just begats the same in kind."

I have no problem with well formulated opnions. What is annoying is illogical, repetitive, and frankly ill conceived opinions. And, I call it like I see it. If you make unintelligent comments, I'll call you out or debate you. In some instances, like with BF78, the ignorance is so blatant it's not even worth a response. The guy that comments on players and games, get this, without even watching games! And, with some people, there is a history of which you may not know about.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"So when a person states a position or agrees with another poster, it does no good to comment about the "morons" doing the commenting. Agree or disagree without sounding condecending, or name-calling. That just begats the same in kind."

I have no problem with well formulated opnions. What is annoying is illogical, repetitive, and frankly ill conceived opinions. And, I call it like I see it. If you make unintelligent comments, I'll call you out or debate you. In some instances, like with BF78, the ignorance is so blatant it's not even worth a response. The guy that comments on players and games, get this, without even watching games! And, with some people, there is a history of which you may not know about.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 4:14 PM | Report abuse

"His kind of candor may be refreshing (I remember people saying the same about Jim Zorn) but over the long term, it tends to grate on people, especially the people he's talking about. Eventually, right or wrong, people tend to tune out the message because they're tired of listening to the messenger. It doesn't excuse the players from anything, just sayin'."

But that happens with almost every coach in every sport, regardless of style. Wade Phillips was supposedly a great players coach who the players liked. But that didn't stop them from (A) not playing hard for him all the time and (B) tuning him out. The vast majority of coaches will get tuned out by their players eventually, assuming they stick around long enough. That's just how things work. And, again, nothing Saunders said was either untrue or any kind of put down of McGee. Basically all he said was "the dunk contest is meaningless with regards to actual games and McGee needs to expand his offensive skills." If that somehow bruises McGee's ego, maybe he needs some thicker skin.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder why is it that the Clips seem to use the alleyoop as a winning part of their gameplan and folks here like to trash that concept here with McGee. Some even consider it a negative concept in ball according to there comments.

Blake is a double double guy and I'm sure the dunk plays a measureable role in it."

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 10, 2011 4:02 PM

Too bad McGee isn't Blake Griffin. (Really, it's too bad.) McGee does other things offensively than just throw down lobs. He's a skilled offensive player in a way that McGee doesn't come close to being.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 4:23 PM | Report abuse

EDIT:

Obviously that should read: GRIFFIN does other things offensively than just throw down lobs.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 4:24 PM | Report abuse

when a guy is shooting 55% and has shown some ability to make short Js and hooks....gotta feed him more imo.

Posted by: divi3

Imo, (and I think I posted this last week), they don't 'feed' him down low for a couple of reasons.

1) Though he is improving, he hasn't demonstrated much consistency or skill down low. It is clear he has been working on that sweeping hook. As he develops proficiency with it, and starts to show other moves, he'll get more looks. In fact I believe he has gotten more looks in the post over the past few games. It's just tough to notice because it has gone from zero to one or two.

2) Right now, he is a total black hole on the low box. Everyone knows if they pass it to him down there, it ain't coming back out, even if he doesn't have a great shot. So I'm not sure it's totally Flip saying 'don't pass the ball to him down there', though I know that's the easy excuse.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Overall, imo, and probably the opinion of most, he's shown improvement and better effort.

Maybe the most consistent positive with Mcgee has been effort level (DrFlip's asthma diagnosis or whatever). Javale busts his butt on court, is generally showing as much motor as any Big I can think of. Of course he isnt always doing the right thing, but he is always expending effort trying to do something. He plays hard. IMO, that's a very positive sign coming on a toilet bowl team with a coach he probably cant stand.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 4:27 PM | Report abuse

This team needs a new coach and maybe a new general manager to go along with the new approach of rebuilding. Flip isn't the right type of coach for this team. Whitman, who is on the staff, would be a better fit for this roster. This team is not ready/capable of winning on a regular basis, or being competitive in every game. This team needs to be groomed an brought along and players have to be allowed to play through mistakes.

Posted by: dc202jp | January 10, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"IMO, that's a very positive sign coming on a toilet bowl team with a coach he probably cant stand.Posted by: divi3"

And that's why they call this an 'opinion' forum... we got'em to spare.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Yep, there is plenty of them. Plenty with no basis or facts to back them up too.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 4:50 PM | Report abuse

But that happens with almost every coach in every sport, regardless of style. Wade Phillips was supposedly a great players coach who the players liked. But that didn't stop them from (A) not playing hard for him all the time and (B) tuning him out.

Posted by: kalo_rama

The counter to that example is the lesson Tom Coughlin had to learn in NY....that there's a difference between being tough just being a dick.

Imo, Wade's problems in Dallas had less to do with the team tuning him out and more to do with the guy tapped (and paid) to be his successor standing next to him and calling his offense.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

edit: "there's a difference between being tough and just being a dick."

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"The counter to that example is the lesson Tom Coughlin had to learn in NY....that there's a difference between being tough just being a dick."

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 4:51 PM

True but not really relevant to the topic at hand, as there was nothing remotely dick-ish in what Saunders said.

And the Giants haven't been exactly setting the football world on fire since winning that Super Bowl (in an upset). In fact, there are quite a few signs that, despite his kinder, gentler approach, they've tuned Coughlin out anyway.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Imo, Wade's problems in Dallas had less to do with the team tuning him out and more to do with the guy tapped (and paid) to be his successor standing next to him and calling his offense.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

good stuff ts35

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 10, 2011 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Yep, there is plenty of them. Plenty with no basis or facts to back them up too.

Posted by: rphilli721 | January 10, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I wonder why is it that the Clips seem to use the alleyoop as a winning part of their gameplan and folks here like to trash that concept here with McGee. Some even consider it a negative concept in ball according to there comments.

Blake is a double double guy and I'm sure the dunk plays a measureable role in it.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

----

really like watching griffin but don't really think that the clips "use the alleyoop as a winning part of their gameplan." guy's a talent. 12 wins for the team despite his talent.

Posted by: MinuMang | January 10, 2011 5:07 PM | Report abuse

True but not really relevant to the topic at hand, as there was nothing remotely dick-ish in what Saunders said
Posted by: kalo_rama

I'd need to hear the full context and tone of it, but just on the face of it, I'd say it was a little dick-ish.

And did you really just try to pull the old "Aside from winning the SuperBowl, what have they accomplished under Coughlin?" Wow.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 5:08 PM | Report abuse

And did you really just try to pull the old "Aside from winning the SuperBowl, what have they accomplished under Coughlin?" Wow.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 5:08 PM

Did you really just try to pull the "pretend to be responding to what someone said but actually respond to an obvious distortion of what they said so you can more easily refute it?" Wow.

You brought up Coughlin's (supposed) change in attitude as an example of a coach playing it nice so as to avoid his team tuning him out. I pointed out that despite his change in attitude and despite taking them to (and winning) a Super Bowl (which you'd think might earn him some locker room grace points) they tuned him out anyway, thus undercutting your argument that a coach's willingness to stroke his players egos in his public comments has any real impact on whether they end up tuning him out.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"really like watching griffin but don't really think that the clips "use the alleyoop as a winning part of their gameplan." guy's a talent. 12 wins for the team despite his talent."

Posted by: MinuMang | January 10, 2011 5:07 PM

Seriously. As long as Sterling owns the team, the words "Clippers" and "winning game plan" have no business in the same sentence.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 10, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

" Plenty with no basis or facts to back them up too.Posted by: rphilli721"

Our specialty...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Flip is usually dick-ish when speaking of Mcgee. He almost comes off resentful of the guy's astounding athleticism. Complains about all the blocked shots....note to Flipper, team is 8-6 when Javale swats 3+ shots and 1-18 when he goes for 2 or less. There are plenty of nights where Mcgee is the only defense this sorry team has on the floor, but you'd never know it listening to Flip's daily drooling over Hinrich and lamentations as to the loss of whatever vet happens to be hurt.

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Got news for the uninitiated -- your average head football coach is a dick. Maybe a little less so in basketball, but not much.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

"...team is 8-6 when Javale swats 3+ shots and 1-18 when he goes for 2 or less."

LOL that's an example of a 'McNews Stat', the sort editors stick into a five-line game preview as though it really meant something. Akin to 'the Fighting Crickets are 7-6 when they score over 100 points, 3-5 when they don't.'

Not the same signficance as a team having a winning record at home and is 0-18 on the road...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 5:46 PM | Report abuse

"Flip is usually dick-ish when speaking of Mcgee." posted by divi3

Um, aren't you usually dick-ish when speaking of Flip? That doesn't count?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Akin to 'the Fighting Crickets are 7-6 when they score over 100 points, 3-5 when they don't.

ROTFLMAO!! There is a far cry between 7-6 vs 3-5, and 8-6 vs 1-18

Posted by: divi3 | January 10, 2011 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Did you really just try to pull the "pretend to be responding to what someone said but actually respond to an obvious distortion of what they said so you can more easily refute it?" Wow.

No, but I'm not surprised you'd play that card (to borrow from you) 'keeping your streak intact.'

Considering he went from "Lost the Locker Room, about to be fired" to "SuperBowl Champion" within a season and a half based in part on that change, and managed to keep coaching the team for three more years (to date) to relative success (12-4, 8-8, 10-6), I'd say it's germane and not distorted.

If the 'heart' of your 'point' is that coaches eventually get tuned out by their players, I would say a) maybe, but b) why accelerate it by being a dick? Had Coughlin not changed, he would likely have been out the door, and thus would not have won the SuperBowl you're happy to dismiss. Coughlin has managed to survive 7 years in NYC, gone 65-47, won the NFC East twice, been to the playoffs 4 times and won a ring. Even if it ends tomorrow, not a bad run. One that would have been cut much shorter without loosening the reins a bit.

But the overall point was (and remains) that Flip gained nothing by those comments, except maybe JaVale putting one more check (rightly or wrongly) in the "my coach is a dick" box. Should JaVale thicken his skin? Absolutely. But Flip could have delivered the same point in a different way and had a more positive (if minor) effect.

Posted by: ts35 | January 10, 2011 6:09 PM | Report abuse

"ROTFLMAO!! There is a far cry between 7-6 vs 3-5, and 8-6 vs 1-18Posted by: divi3"

Think you missed the point on that one...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

The point being, it's a bogus stat. Acts as if a one or two block difference in one player's block total is the key to victory, which in fact, it isn't.

But it's the sort of thing a lazy or distracted reporter will stick in a story to make it sound like he knows what he's talking about...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 7:42 PM | Report abuse

"Had Coughlin not changed, he would likely have been out the door, and thus would not have won the SuperBowl you're happy to dismiss. Coughlin has managed to survive 7 years in NYC, gone 65-47, won the NFC East twice, been to the playoffs 4 times and won a ring. Even if it ends tomorrow, not a bad run. One that would have been cut much shorter without loosening the reins a bit."

I guess I question the assumption that Coughlin changed his behavior a great deal and that this was the secret to his tenure in NY. He's always been a disciplinarian, including at BC and when he led the Jags to those two AFC championship games, and by all reports, he still is. Maybe he was on his way out in NY, maybe that was media hyperbole. In NY it's always difficult to tell.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 10, 2011 7:50 PM | Report abuse

@bulletsfan78:

since your philosophical convictions don't allow you to actually watch the wiz games, here's a pretty good breakdown of the last one for you:
http://www.truthaboutit.net/?gcid=C12289x022>kw=Truth+About+It

Posted by: MinuMang | January 10, 2011 9:12 PM | Report abuse

We get on Flip and he has been crappy but the fact is that he also hasnt had much of a real chance. Gil was a shell of his former self last year, AJ was the horrible no defense black hole, & Caron had regressed tremendously while we see Wood being benched in Dallas. Then this year again Gil doesnt play hard and is struggling mentally with his lack of explosin while a big part of our team was going to be Dray and he looks like crap after the injury.

Dray’s game & mentality is being more mobile then other bigs & beating them off the dribble but because of the injury, he is much slower & less explosive then last year so he cant go by anyone and is too dumb to back guys down & play in the post until he gets some extra quickness back. Meanwhile another big piece we counted on was Howard and we all know about that situation. We just arent going to win alot without Howard and with both Gil & Dray playing like they are or were. Fast forward to now and Dray pretty much still holds the key.

Weve been losing but we are in these games and thats with Dray looking like the worst player in the league. If he can get 75% back to what he was late last year then we look like a different team but thats a big if. Again, I have alot of those games on tape from last year and Im telling you that our Wiz fans forget how good & efficent he was when healthy down the stretch. He looked trimmer, quicker, more sure of himself, and could do a little of everything.

Now he’s heavy looking, much slower, and hesitates every time he gets the ball. Its a different guy but you would be foolish to trade him because chances are with a full offseason he looks good again and probably even better because he’s been humbled and will have somethign to prove. Then like typical Wiz fashion, we see him blowup somewhere else and will then act like he couldve never done that here because of this or that

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 11, 2011 12:10 AM | Report abuse

I guess I question the assumption that Coughlin changed his behavior a great deal and that this was the secret to his tenure in NY. He's always been a disciplinarian, including at BC and when he led the Jags to those two AFC championship games, and by all reports, he still is. Maybe he was on his way out in NY, maybe that was media hyperbole. In NY it's always difficult to tell.

Posted by: Samson151

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/11/04/2007-11-04_tom_coughlin_has_turned_image_and_giants.html

He didn't change a great deal, he just made some changes. He's still a disciplinarian, but he did some things like establish a veteran's council to give him feedback and also handle some player issues, etc.

Posted by: ts35 | January 11, 2011 1:32 AM | Report abuse

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