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Posted at 4:15 PM ET, 01/14/2011

Nick Young's status "up in the air" for Toronto

By Michael Lee

Nick Young was unable to practice this afternoon because of soreness in his left knee and he was unsure if he would be available on Saturday when the Wizards host the Toronto Raptors.


This knee brace wasn't just for show. (AP Photo)

"It's up in the air," Young said.

Young said he first started feeling discomfort last month in New Jersey and has been wearing a knee brace the past 13 games. He scored 15 points in the Wizards' 109-97 loss in Minnesota, hitting a three-pointer to give the team a four-point lead with less than six minutes remaining. But when he arrived at Verizon Center on Friday, Young said the pain was too unbearable to participate in practice.

"It's been bothering me for a while and I've just been treating it, and treating it, everyday," he said. "It's kind of starting to wear down on me. And before it gets worse, I just want to build it up and fix it, a little bit."

Young has only missed one game this season, after sustaining a left thigh bruise colliding with fellow USC alum DeMar DeRozan in Toronto on Dec. 1. Coach Flip Saunders was optimistic that he would have Young against the Raptors, but added that Kirk Hinrich would start at shooting guard in the team's leading scorer since the Gilbert Arenas trade was unable to play. "I don't want to do it that way," Saunders said.

Andray Blatche did practice and is expecting to be available against Toronto after missing the loss to Minnesota with a sprained right shoulder. "If he comes back, I don't know how totally effective he's going to be because he's not 100 percent," Saunders said. "But one thing about Dray, he's not afraid to play with pain. As long as we know he's not going to hurt it any more, he probably would try to extend and try to play if he can, just give us another big body guy and a lot presence."

The Wizards were disappointed about losing their 20th consecutive road game dating back to last season, but comforted somewhat that they were back home, where the team is 10-8 this season. It is also coming off a performance in which it posted season highs in points (136), points in any quarter (40) and rebounds (55), and they tied a season high in assists (28).

The Wizards have also won consecutive games at home, with both wins coming after road losses. "Not winning on the road becomes a lightning rod. How we've competed at home, that's been overshadowed because we can't win a game on the road," Saunders said. "So the focus is on how bad we're playing on the road. We're not winning on the road, but it's not that we've played bad all the time. I think our guys, they are getting to the point, where they get frustrated. The positive is that they've been able to bounce back at home."

Rashard Lewis said he wishes Saturday's game was in Toronto. I don't even want to play at home tomorrow. I want to play on the road, to get us a road win," Lewis said. "We do play well at home, but it's going to be a tough game for us. Toronto is a great team, but we got to get a road win. It's embarrassing to not have a road win, and we're in a new year, it's January and we're getting ready to go into the all-star break."

By Michael Lee  | January 14, 2011; 4:15 PM ET
Categories:  Andray Blatche, Flip Saunders, Nick Young  
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Next: Open thread: Wizards (10-27) vs. Raptors (13-26)

Comments

Lewis said....Toronto is a great team?

I guess he is comparing Toronto to the Wizards?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 14, 2011 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I take it you don't agree that Nick took last night off?

No, I dont. He played good D the whole night, grabbed 4 boards, had an assist, block, and steal I believe. Some stooge writes that he sat during warmups at halftime, and of course haters pounce on it saying he took the night off or was disinterested.

Turns out he is hurt, but I guess that lazy bum should have warmed up for 5mins before the 3rdQ instead of resting his knee.

Posted by: divi3 | January 14, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

A player with a questionable knee plays 43 minutes. These players need more rest! To be fresher in the game and healthier throughout the year.

Posted by: audacitea | January 14, 2011 5:15 PM | Report abuse

If he could make some sort of breakthrough -- develop a reliable shot, become a prime rebounder -- then his stock would just shoot up.

Mcgee is 8th in the league for rebounding amongst Centers. He's 15th for defensive rebounds which needs to improve, but is still avg as opposed to bad. Just last night he was killing the boards. Could be better, but at 22yrs old and in his 1st season with consistent minutes....Wizards fans should be cautiously optimistic imo

Posted by: divi3 | January 14, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Predicting first road win - Feb 13 or 23.

Posted by: MikeNelmsReturns | January 14, 2011 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Nick got hurt running into Joey Dorsey aka the human tank from B-more. NY was walking to the free throw line like Fred Sanford after that encounter.

Posted by: elfreako | January 14, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Re Young's/Blatche's injury and playing back-to-back games.

I'll say it again, this shows just how remarkable Jordan and Magic and Bird and _______ (fill in the blank with your suggestion) were. Even in their 30s, they were performing at a high, high level.

Back-to-back games, road trips, banged up, they still played.

Here we have twenty-somethings unable to perform consistently.

MJ, Bird, Magic did it for 10+ years.

Just incredible.

Posted by: SteveMG | January 14, 2011 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"[Nick] played good D the whole night, grabbed 4 boards, had an assist, block, and steal I believe. Some stooge writes that he sat during warmups at halftime, and of course haters pounce on it saying he took the night off or was disinterested.
Turns out he is hurt, but I guess that lazy bum should have warmed up for 5mins before the 3rdQ instead of resting his knee.Posted by: divi3"

LOL simmer down. He was a shell of himself in that game. Maybe the knee was why. No need to go all ad hominem on the poor AP writer.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 14, 2011 6:48 PM | Report abuse

"Actually, Nick got hurt running into Joey Dorsey aka the human tank from B-more. NY was walking to the free throw line like Fred Sanford after that encounter.Posted by: elfreako"

Explains a lot. Not the first victim of Joey's massive frame.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 14, 2011 6:50 PM | Report abuse

"I'll say it again, this shows just how remarkable Jordan and Magic and Bird and _______ (fill in the blank with your suggestion) were. Even in their 30s, they were performing at a high, high level. posted by SteveMG"

They were pretty amazing. Both basically skill players.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 14, 2011 6:53 PM | Report abuse

All 3, I meant.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 14, 2011 6:54 PM | Report abuse

All 3, I meant.

Yeah but you could add "E" Elvin Hayes. Or a Paul Silas. Some other names who banged every game and yet were out there the next day.

These young players - 20/21/22 - talk about how tough it is to play back-to-back or on the road. And they're going 25 minutes or so. At an ordinary level.

The Jordans and others were going 40+ minutes at a top level day-after-day. How the heck did they do it?

Posted by: SteveMG | January 14, 2011 7:19 PM | Report abuse

"Wizards keep nope alive on the road." Mike Lee

And that ain't dope man.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 14, 2011 8:00 PM | Report abuse

"Wizards keep nope alive on the road." Mike Lee

And that ain't dope man.

Lewis said....Toronto is a great team?

I guess he is comparing Toronto to the Wizards?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 14, 2011 4:28 PM | Report abuse

That be dope man

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 14, 2011 8:01 PM | Report abuse

So . . . another nonresponsive "response" then?
Posted by: kalo_rama

Not at all.

Did I say anything that could be reasonably interpreted as believing it was an "organic" process that required no effort? No.

You described a process that was a series of steps without any indication of how a team manages to progress from one step to the next. Magic? Miracle? Lots of water and fertilizer? Well, at least I know you have an ample supply of that.

"Players showing urgency is part of it."
Posted by: ts35 | January 14, 2011 4:16 PM

And how does a player "show urgency"? What does urgency look like? It's an ephemeral phrase with no measurable dynamic. Something some fan heard a coach say and started repeating it.

No, not really. By normal sports definition, it's usually reflected by players playing harder and demonstrating more focus. Fighting harder for rebounds, diving on the floor for loose balls, scrambling on their rotations, hustling back on defense.

If they walked around with their faces scrunched up, stomping their feet on the way to bench would that make you feel better about them losing?

I was talking about urgency. Sounds like you're talking about constipation. I suggest some Kaopectate and lots of bed rest.

The fact that they haven't started winning cannot be logically interpreted as them not caring about or wanting to win.

Fortunately, I never said that. Their play on the floor through large parts of the first 3 and a half quarters, imo, did not reflect the level of effort required to finally get a win on the road.

They aren't losing because they lack "urgency." They're losing because they haven't yet figured out how to win. And figuring that out is a part of the ongoing process of rebuilding a team. Getting anxious about it isn't going to make it happen faster (and, if anything, it's likely to impede the process).

You seem to be confused. Allow me to help.

urgency - the state of being urgent; an earnest and insistent necessity - an urgent situation calling for prompt action.

anxious - experiencing worry, unease, or nervousness, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome.

Urgency in the context of sports confers more of a sense of determination and effort, not freneticism or nervousness.

So what does it mean to "learn how to win"? Doesn't it mean figuring out what elements go into winning. Well, part of it is figuring what level of effort, intensity, focus and desire are required.....urgency.


Posted by: ts35 | January 14, 2011 10:40 PM | Report abuse

I had high high hopes this year. It is all so depressing. I heard today that Saunders is said to be safe in his job. I'm scratching my head at that one. Doug Collins, I feel, had less talent in Philadelphia at the beginning of the year. They are doing much better and I would still say with less talent. We are tied for the third worst team in the league, and not too far from the rock bottom. Are we making progress? Injuries are happening now, and that is unfortunate. We blew so many opportunities earlier in the season with those crazy lineups. Will someone please just show us the way!!!

Posted by: 1bmffwb | January 14, 2011 11:05 PM | Report abuse

"I had high high hopes this year...."
Posted by: 1bmffwb

Wow. I'm scratching my head at that. Did you check out that roster? Notice all the turnover? Unfamiliar names? Castoffs from other teams? Four rookies?

In today's NBA, that's a recipe for a lot of losses. Don't cite OKC, either; they're young players were drafted a lot higher than ours, except for Wall.

Although from reading this blog, it would seem you weren't alone...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

"I had high high hopes this year...."
Posted by: 1bmffwb

Although from reading this blog, it would seem you weren't alone...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Considering all of the bad moves Ernie has made in his 7 years and since he handpicked Flip to be the coach...I'm surprised that they have 10 wins.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 12:25 AM | Report abuse

"No, not really. By normal sports definition, it's usually reflected by players playing harder and demonstrating more focus. Fighting harder for rebounds, diving on the floor for loose balls, scrambling on their rotations, hustling back on defense."

Did you get that from the "normal sports dictionary"? All you've done is give a standard definition of "effort" or "playing hard." Which is, of course, what teams are supposed to do. But, in and of itself, it has nothing to do with any sense of "urgency." Urgency is something one can feel, but it's not demonstrative.

"Fortunately, I never said that.

Really? Then what was this (written in response to my question What, exactly, do they have to be "urgent" about?") about:

"Not getting their asses handed to them on a nightly basis.

Even as young as they are, you would hope competitively, getting routinely embarrassed would bother them. One aspect of this year's rebuilding that may prove to be an immediate success is determining which guys care enough about winning (or hate losing)."

Posted by: ts35 | January 14, 2011 3:00 PM

Care to revise your testimony?

"urgency - the state of being urgent; an earnest and insistent necessity - an urgent situation calling for prompt action.

anxious - experiencing worry, unease, or nervousness, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome.


Urgency in the context of sports confers more of a sense of determination and effort, not freneticism or nervousness.

So, in other words, urgency "in the context of sports" means something that isn't contained in the actual definition of the word "urgency" you yourself posted? Yeah, okay. Whatever.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 15, 2011 3:51 AM | Report abuse

"Doug Collins, I feel, had less talent in Philadelphia at the beginning of the year. They are doing much better and I would still say with less talent.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | January 14, 2011 11:05 PM

I'm fairly confident that most paid NBA talent evaluators would strongly disagree with that.

When they first got Brand, people were predicting they might win the East. After making to the playoffs after Brand went out, they were considered one of the most disappointing teams in the NBA last season after going 27 and 55 (with largely the same roster they have now) because there were expectations that they'd be pretty good. Conversely, most (non-fan) preseason predictions had the Wiz finishing at the bottom of the division and near the bottom of the conference.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 15, 2011 4:04 AM | Report abuse

A team that is dependent on Young and Blatche will never win.

Posted by: fish4 | January 15, 2011 7:22 AM | Report abuse

Young, Wall and Hinrich are playing too many minutes because of lack of depth in the backcourt. If they were going to cut Hudson they should have signed someone to replace him.

Posted by: shovetheplanet | January 15, 2011 7:49 AM | Report abuse

"....You seem to be confused. Allow me to help.

urgency - the state of being urgent; an earnest and insistent necessity - an urgent situation calling for prompt action.

anxious - experiencing worry, unease, or nervousness, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome.

Urgency in the context of sports confers more of a sense of determination and effort, not freneticism or nervousness.

So what does it mean to "learn how to win"? Doesn't it mean figuring out what elements go into winning. Well, part of it is figuring what level of effort, intensity, focus and desire are required.....urgency.


Posted by: ts35

This team is defined in one word ts35 (Tommy)... they = SUCK... just like Grunfeld and his gangstas Newtun and Sheppards. SUCK, get it?

Posted by: member8 | January 15, 2011 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Is SAUNDERS keeping the 'dope' alive in 'nope'?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 15, 2011 9:15 AM | Report abuse

About comparing the Wiz to the 76ers: I'd describe it as the difference between blowing up a team and starting over versus, well, not blowing it up and starting over. Philly did make changes at center, with Spencer Hawes and Tony Battie joining Speights, and they did add 31 year old Andres Nocioni, but otherwise they're mostly the same squad. Holiday, Meeks, and Thad Young have improved, and so has scorer Lou Williams (who is in his 5th season). They've been less lucky with Turner and Brackins. The coaching change helped because the Philly veterans made no secret of their dislike for Ed Jordan's Princeton offense. And of course, Elton Brand is back and playing like someone worth one-fifth of his salary (better than the NBA average).

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Also, anybody notice the Kings posted a 10 point win over the Knicks at MSG last night? Beno Udrih went something like 11 for 14 with 5 boards and 4 assists, only 2 TOs. Tyreke Evans, meanwhile, continues to struggle. Beno's really playing well...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Also, anybody notice the Kings posted a 10 point win over the Knicks at MSG last night? Beno Udrih went something like 11 for 14 with 5 boards and 4 assists, only 2 TOs. Tyreke Evans, meanwhile, continues to struggle. Beno's really playing well...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Beno's nasty him and Dragic are 2 euro guards i wouldn't mind having on the squad.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 10:55 AM | Report abuse

The coaching change helped because the Philly veterans made no secret of their dislike for Ed Jordan's Princeton offense.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 10:39 AM | Report abuse

A coaching change would help because the Wizards (other then the veterans) dislike Flip.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards, according to NBA front-office sources, are also getting calls on veteran guard Kirk Hinrich and said to be more amenable to moving the former Bull -- Wall's supposed mentor -- than dealing Young. Wiz forward Andray Blatche, as you've heard since Christmas, can obviously still be had, too.

Weekend Dime

Posted by: djnnnou | January 15, 2011 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Wiz forward Andray Blatche, as you've heard since Christmas, can obviously still be had, too.

----

Blatche said "The organization has my back and they are supporting me and letting me know, 'Don't worry about the trade rumors. We love you here. We need you.' "

They're playin you Dray!

Posted by: divi3 | January 15, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Beno Udrih's last 3 games, all on the road:

at NY: 40 minutes, 11-14 FGs, 29 points, 5 rbs, 4 assts, 4 stls, 2 TOs
at Boston: 30 minutes, 5-6 FGs, 16 points, 1 rb, 5 assts, 0 TOs
at Wash: 42 minutes, 10-13FGs, 26 points, 4 rbs, 6 assts, 2 stls, 1 blk, 2 TOs

Now that's hot...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Of course they'd move Kirk for a price -- who wouldn't? He's a veteran that could be of use to a contending club. Same could be said for R. Lewis and for Josh Howard once he proves healthy. I'm sure none of them would protest. Would you?

And yes, I suspect they'd move Blatche and Young if the offer was good enough, too. But not give them away.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

They're playin you Dray!

Posted by: divi3 | January 15, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

I suspect he's the one that's playing them. Or to be more accurate, he's the one that played Ernie into giving him that ridiculous extension.
Then again, playing Ernie is like picking up a fat chick at the local bar.

Posted by: Utilityman1 | January 15, 2011 11:43 AM | Report abuse

If you are Kirk, would you rather play limited minutes for a better team or stay here where you have free reign to play however and as much as you want? And the coach sings your praises every chance he gets? Yes we are losing, but he's playing more than he ever will again and allowed a larger role than any other team would give him. Maybe he enjoys that.

No one is taking Rashard.

Or Howard until he proves himself healthy.

EG drafted Nick, good chance he intends for Young to be the team's SG moving forward. It actually doesnt make sense to trade Nick and then have a hole that will be difficult to fill. Of course, who knows what offers Young will receive once he's an RFA

Posted by: divi3 | January 15, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards are already short of guards. It's hard to imagine they would trade one at this point. A guard for a better guard trade? I'm sure they'd go for that, but . . . unlikely.

Posted by: nmik | January 15, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"A coaching change would help because the Wizards (other then the veterans) dislike Flip.Posted by: bulletsfan78"

The Philly vets disliked Eddie's Princeton offense. They'd played very well at season's end and figured they could do so again under the old way. BTW, the Sixers first choice (over Ed Jordan) had been Doug Collins, but Jordan would come cheaper. Now they're back with Collins and playing better. They're 16-23, which projects to about 34 wins at season's end if things hold steady. That's reasonably close to how they projected at season's start. Of course, they could get hot. Or cold.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"The Wizards are already short of guards. It's hard to imagine they would trade one at this point. A guard for a better guard trade? I'm sure they'd go for that, but . . unlikely.Posted by: nmik"

I think they have to listen seriously to any trade offer, regardless of position. This is a major rebuild. If the GM can strengthen the team in the long run, he has to consider weakening it in the short term. The Wiz just need too many players. They could always plug Hudson in, or bring someone up from the D's.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The coaching change helped because the Philly veterans made no secret of their dislike for Ed Jordan's Princeton offense.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 10:39 AM | Report abuse

A coaching change would help because the Wizards (other then the veterans) dislike Flip.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I agree. Thanks for giving us basis for comparison Samson.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I think we need a guy like Brian Skinner to come in and "mentor" our Bigs on being an interior defensive force. Seraphin and Booker are undersized guys who will always need to play smart against taller foes.

Posted by: divi3 | January 15, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I haven't heard many reports of complaints from players about Flip's offense holding the team back. I may just have missed them. Feel free to cite them.

A complaint about playing time isn't the same, remember. Most of the complaints about the scheme have come here, in this blog.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Of course they'd move Kirk for a price -- who wouldn't? He's a veteran that could be of use to a contending club...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

...and of no use to a club that is rebuilding

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

So, in other words, urgency "in the context of sports" means something that isn't contained in the actual definition of the word "urgency" you yourself posted? Yeah, okay. Whatever.
Posted by: kalo_rama

Honestly, you just seemed confused on the definitions of the actual words "urgency" and "anxious" which aren't synonymous. So I thought you could use some help.

Re: Urgency in the context of sports
Did you get that from the "normal sports dictionary"?

If, by that, you mean the lexicon of sports terms that people commonly use and understand, then...yep. I notice you had no problem pulling a similar phrase from that lexicon and using it...the old "learn how to win" phrase. But you can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend the phrase "playing with a sense of urgency" doesn't have a commonly understood meaning, or you can continue to attempt to inaccurately redefine it to suit your 'argument', whichever dodge you prefer.

All you've done is give a standard definition of "effort" or "playing hard." Which is, of course, what teams are supposed to do. But, in and of itself, it has nothing to do with any sense of "urgency." Urgency is something one can feel, but it's not demonstrative.

I mean honestly, see above. Playing with a sense of urgency indicates a level of effort beyond just playing hard and also connotes a sense of immediacy.

Care to revise your testimony?

Since you didn't bother to quote the statement of yours I was actually responding to, allow me to....

"The fact that they haven't started winning cannot be logically interpreted as them not caring about or wanting to win."

Which I never said. I never said the fact that they haven't won indicates that they don't care. What I'm saying is that the apparent lack of a sense of urgency I observed earlier in the game indicates to me that they don't understand what it's going to take or are unwilling to give what it's going to take to get that first win on the road.

Since you seem a little slow on the uptake on this whole topic, allow me to elaborate. They could have played with urgency throughout the whole Minnesota game and still lost. But in terms of "learning how to win" I would feel that they have progressed closer to that next step, because at least they would have demonstrated to me an understanding of the level of effort that's required.

Posted by: ts35 | January 15, 2011 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I haven't read many reports of complaints from Philly players about Eddie's offense holding the team back. I may just have missed them. Feel free to cite them.


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

The coaching change helped because the Philly veterans made no secret of their dislike for Ed Jordan's Princeton offense.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 10:39 AM | Report abuse

A coaching change would help because the Wizards (other then the veterans) dislike Flip.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I haven't heard many reports of complaints from players about Flip's offense holding the team back. I may just have missed them. Feel free to cite them.

A complaint about playing time isn't the same, remember. Most of the complaints about the scheme have come here, in this blog.


Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I never wrote they didn't dislike Flip's coaching scheme (since he has none)I wrote they dislike the man...why would you like a coach who throws you under the bus anytime he can to save his own a$$?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, Flip's scheme is to let the point guard dribble the ball for 12 seconds and then do whatever he wants?

Maybe his scheme is to just shot from the outside all game?

His "D" scheme must be to play his 3 guards and take out a big man so the other teams can get easy baskets at the end of games.

He also tells Wall that he doesn't have to worry about guarding his man since that's JM's job.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

"I never wrote they didn't dislike Flip's coaching scheme (since he has none)I wrote they dislike the man...posted by bulletsfan78"

Well, there's your problem: the Sixers vets objected to a scheme, particularly in the wake of how well they'd performed in the second half of the season before. You're basing your comment on a perceived dislike of the coach himself, which is a different matter entirely.

BTW, how do you know the players dislike Flip? You dislike him, but do they?

Far as I can tell, he's actually pretty easy to get along with.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"...Flip's scheme is to let the point guard dribble the ball for 12 seconds and then do whatever he wants? Maybe his scheme is to just shot from the outside all game? His "D" scheme must be to play his 3 guards and take out a big man so the other teams can get easy baskets at the end of games. He also tells Wall that he doesn't have to worry about guarding his man since that's JM's job.
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

What you're demonstrating is that you don't like Flip or his scheme. But the players? Cite the source for your conclusion.

For instance, I doubt Flip told Wall not to play defense. That sounds like fantasy to me. You just make it up?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

BTW, how do you know the players dislike Flip?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Because they don't show up and play for him.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

@samson
still waitin on those quotes from philly players trashing the princeton offense.

Funny how Brand (a fatter shorter AJ with no 3) Iggy (CB with hops) and Lou Williams (baby Gil) would bristle at the offense that put three players in the allstar game for the first times in their careers. It's laughable that there were any players on Philly good enough or accomplished enough to tune out a coach and get him fired in his first year. I guess i'll have to wait and see which Philly player/players is quoted with bashing Eddie's shceme.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

BTW, how do you know the players dislike Flip?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Because they don't show up and play for him.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

aside from KH and maybe AB can you think of any reason why players like Flip?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"Because they don't show up and play for him.
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

I see. Well, they all 'show up', so to speak, except Gilbert that one time in the preseason, so it sounds like when they don't play well, you're interpreting that as a personal dislike for the coach.

Not very scientific of you. What about all the other reasons they could have for not playing well? You arbitrarily reject those?

What about the games where they play well? How do you explain that? Do they temporarily become infatuated with the coach? Do you think they play well in spite of their deep personal dislike of the coach?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

aside from KH and maybe AB can you think of any reason why players like Flip?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I think Boykins liked Flip since he let him dribble the 24 second shot clock away last year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"@samsonstill waitin on those quotes from philly players trashing the princeton offense.posted by lilhollywood11"

You asked for quotes? I didn't see that.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

What about the games where they play well? How do you explain that?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

You mean the game when Wittman caoched?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I guess its Nick's turn to miss a few games.

Posted by: carterm1 | January 15, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

"Funny how Brand (a fatter shorter AJ with no 3) Iggy (CB with hops) and Lou Williams (baby Gil) would bristle at the offense that put three players in the allstar game for the first times in their careers. It's laughable that there were any players on Philly good enough or accomplished enough to tune out a coach and get him fired in his first year. I guess i'll have to wait and see which Philly player/players is quoted with bashing Eddie's shceme.Posted by: lilhollywood10"

I confess your reasoning escapes me. I'm just going by what I read. Here's a link to an article around the time Ed was fired (ESPN/ AP). Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. Sarcasm always works better if you can do that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5092747

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

"aside from KH and maybe AB can you think of any reason why players like Flip?Posted by: lilhollywood10"

You're asking me to speculate about somebody else's thinking. That's the very thing I criticize bulletsfan78 for doing. How would we know if we were right?

Maybe Flip is beloved for bringing the donuts to team meetings. That's about as likely as any of BF's theories.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I like the requests coming about KH, which contending team in the east need his service
1/Boston o% chance: they have enough power in the back court
2/ orlando o% chance, already need to thin down their back court
3/Chicago 30-40%,they probably missed his mentoring,his on ball defense against slow SG and SF,i will be very happy to get that gard from Utha,we need those type of players.
4/Atlanta o%
5/Newyork 5% , probably for defense and to back up their PG, his playoff experiance might increase his value.
6/Miami o%
west
1/spurs o%
2/Dallas 5%, not sure about their needs.
3/Tunder,no way
4/hornets, they have a better one
5/Lakers , they have no money to absorb his contract but they need his experiance incase Fishert is out.
6/Portnad 30%, is he the right man to replace roy? i have no clue about their financial flexibility,i think they might be in a potential semi-rebuilding situation next season.

Posted by: gtefferra | January 15, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

You mean the game when Wittman caoched?
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

So far I haven't seen evidence that the players are hostile towards Flip. I've seen plenty of evidence that you're hostile towards Flip, but that doesn't count, does it? Unless you're beaming your thoughts into player's minds...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 2:02 PM | Report abuse

@Samson
One real indictment of the Princeton offense from Elton Brand. That is what i asked for. It's hardly the level of mutinous contempt that would call for the ouster of 2 all stars and another starter like WE saw last year.But hey. Dalembert,their defensive minded center complained that they needed to focus on defense instead of offense (Par for the course with EJ).He subsequently plays for Sacto now. It didn't sound like there was an upheaval though. Not a string of negative comments and rumors like when, say, Flip left Detroit. It doesn't sound like there was a resounding dislike for the princeton set, more of an unfamiliarity. One of those things that takes more than one season to fix. When EJ came here he went 25-57 his first year. His second year he earned a playoff berth with a 20 win turnaround. Something for Philly to think about on their way to Seacaucus this spring.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"I like the requests coming about KH..."

I imagine he could help somebody, depending on the injury situation. So could Lewis or Josh Howard, in the right circumstances.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"@Samson One real indictment of the Princeton offense from Elton Brand. That is what i asked for."

You did? You didn't say that. Of course, you didn't ask for quotes the first time, either.

"It's hardly the level of mutinous contempt that would call for the ouster of 2 all stars and another starter like WE saw last year.But hey. Dalembert,their defensive minded center complained that they needed to focus on defense instead of offense (Par for the course with EJ).He subsequently plays for Sacto now. It didn't sound like there was an upheaval though. Not a string of negative comments and rumors like when, say, Flip left Detroit. It doesn't sound like there was a resounding dislike for the princeton set, more of an unfamiliarity. One of those things that takes more than one season to fix. When EJ came here he went 25-57 his first year. His second year he earned a playoff berth with a 20 win turnaround. Something for Philly to think about on their way to Seacaucus this spring.Posted by: lilhollywood10"

Look, you read the article. Nobody said anything about mutiny but you. The vets on the Sixers didn't take to Eddie's offense. Maybe they would have eventually, who knows? Like the article said, Philly's a coaching carousel. Eddie's just the latest to fall off his pony. His fault? I wasn't there.

Tell you what -- that's enough on the subject.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I confess your reasoning escapes me. I'm just going by what I read. Here's a link to an article around the time Ed was fired (ESPN/ AP). Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. Sarcasm always works better if you can do that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5092747

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

it was a bit all over. i was really saying that the princeton set worked very well for AJ,CB,and Gil. EB,LW and AI9 play very similar to our former all star. i think Brand might not have liked the lack of low post backem down plays employed by the princeton offense, but all the easy buckets it got for AJ, one would think Brand would look at it as an opportunity to resurrect his career. Same with Iggy and Lou, Gil and Caron's games took off after getting settled in the Princeton O. I just didn't understand why similarly talented players would bristle at the system that had shown their Washington counterparts so much success. Then i read the article, the only guy trippin was Brand, he sees the window closing and lost a lot of his carer to injury. I can understand him being resistant to change.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Look, you read the article. Nobody said anything about mutiny but you. The vets on the Sixers didn't take to Eddie's offense. Maybe they would have eventually, who knows? Like the article said, Philly's a coaching carousel. Eddie's just the latest to fall off his pony. His fault? I wasn't there.

Tell you what -- that's enough on the subject.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

who are these vets? they got a quote from Brand and Dalembert. Dalembert wasn't retained either, did the vets have a problem with his scheme? In your earlier comment you said
the Sixers vets objected to a scheme, particularly in the wake of how well they'd performed in the second half of the season before

reading the article 2/15 of the team actually made comments about the princeton O,with Brand speaking for everyone when he said that "it didn't fit..." I think 3 different members of management spoke about how the team's progress was unacceptable, but outside of Dalembert (not a part of the team's future) and Brand (maybe 3rd worst contact in the L) nobody else on the team spoke about disliking EJ personally or having issues with the offense. Maybe another article with quotes from someone other than 2 crabby has-beens.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 2:24 PM | Report abuse

6/Portnad 30%, is he the right man to replace roy? i have no clue about their financial flexibility,i think they might be in a potential semi-rebuilding situation next season.

Posted by: gtefferra | January 15, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Only if the give us Oden.............oops i meant Odin, i bet he could shore up the front court.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I imagine he could help somebody, depending on the injury situation. So could Lewis or Josh Howard, in the right circumstances.

It's hard to imagine Lewis going anywhere, but Howard should generate some interest if he comes back soon. I think Houston, Portland, Chicago and Utah are the playoff(ish) teams that would be most interested in Hinrich. He'd be a great fit for Houston, if they don't want to commit to Brooks.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 15, 2011 2:39 PM | Report abuse

"I like the requests coming about KH..."

I imagine he could help somebody, depending on the injury situation. So could Lewis or Josh Howard, in the right circumstances.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Playing for Flip and the Wizards surely isn't the right circumstance since they haven't helped at all here.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Playing for Flip and the Wizards surely isn't the right circumstance since they haven't helped at all here.

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Yes, we understand you don't watch the games.

Posted by: nmik | January 15, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"reading the article 2/15 of the team actually made comments about the princeton O,with Brand speaking for everyone when he said that "it didn't fit..." I think 3 different members of management spoke about how the team's progress was unacceptable, but outside of Dalembert (not a part of the team's future) and Brand (maybe 3rd worst contact in the L) nobody else on the team spoke about disliking EJ personally or having issues with the offense. Maybe another article with quotes from someone other than 2 crabby has-beens.Posted by: lilhollywood10'

Look, why don't you provide some evidence to contradict what was in the article? Not just your opinions, but something concrete. So far you've offered nothing.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Of course they'd move Kirk for a price -- who wouldn't? He's a veteran that could be of use to a contending club...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

...and of no use to a club that is rebuilding

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Rebuilding and Grunfeld are are oil and water mixing. Ain't gonna happen. Grunfeld needs to go... any other changes are useless.

Posted by: member8 | January 15, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Think of it this way -- the ESPN/AP article cited its sources. You've cited none. So at the moment, it's ESPN 2, lilhollywood 0.

Your chance to even the score...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 4:21 PM | Report abuse

gtefferra... Do you really think there is ZERO chance that Atlanta would want Hinrich. I think the Hawks would love to have him splitting the point with Bibby, because Teague is not ready yet and Bibby has been playing over his head and everyone knows it. I would deal Hinrich to Atlanta in a heartbeat, especially if we could get Marvin Williams in return.

Posted by: khrabb | January 15, 2011 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Look, why don't you provide some evidence to contradict what was in the article? Not just your opinions, but something concrete. So far you've offered nothing.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 4:17 PM | Report abuse
your article offered nothing to support your opinion the THE VETS on the sixers didn't like Eddie Jordan and the princeton offense. What you provided to back that up was one single comment from one single "Vet" that criticized the offense they were running, but only at the conclusion of a 55+ loss season and the coach's firing.

You did not provide
A) Commentary from Vets (plural) but only one guy who might have seen the offense change from running through him to a more guard oriented style, where quick passes and positioning matter more than brute strength and big hands.

B)Espn did not claim that the vets in philly didn't like the system you made that assertion. That info was provided by Brand unsolicited. Yes Espn speculates that the team never warmed to the style, but once again there is one quote in the article that references a player "disliking" the system. No other reports from various veterans or team sources. As far as teams taking a step back Iggy thought he was a shooter last year, I think williams had a broken jaw that sat him down for a while, and Brand is just Brand. Funny how Philly fires their coach 1 yr in because the team hadn't progressed and here we are staring at 55 losses and Flip's job is secure.


if you say i've provided nothing that's fine . i asked you to clarify something. and while you tried to clarify it, Elton Brand's one quote doesnt lead me to believ that the whole team hated the ofense. i asked you for quotes from Philly players dissing Ej's offense. You found me one quote where a guy said it didn't work out. Brand then elaborated by saying that EJ shouldn't have come to town with a set idea of how he was gonna run the team (it's supposed to work if Flip does that here though) and should have used the talent he had differently. When a comment like that comes from one guy, sure it could be true about the whole team. But i'll allow that rest of the men to speak for themselves.

Seems like EB was really explaining away his subpar performance last year on the 3rd worst contract in the L.maybe he didn't like the kid (Speights).I'd just like to hear other players echo Brand's sentiment. i don't count Dalembert's coments about being confused because he's looked confused on the court since his seton hall days.

Funny how "it didn't work" in reference to the offense gets a coach fired (Jordan) in the NBA but it gets the player demoted (McNabb) in football. EJ had a similar record his first year here, he followed that first bad season up with 4 consecutive playoff berths.

Why are our players so dumb and bad and inexperienced and young that it's always their fault when we're bad and never Flip's? But Philly's players can get Eddie run out of town cuz they can't run the system. That's crazy to me.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 5:16 PM | Report abuse

@Samson i have no evidence;nor do i care to take the time to find any, to prove that players on the sixers liked EJ or his system. I just don't believe the one comment from a player on the other side of his glory days as to why he didn't think things worked out is representative of the feelings of everyone on that team.......or all the Vets. Lou Williams,Thad Young, Iggy are all technically vets not one word from them, the future of that team. just the guy who got moved this summer and the old guy who's keeping Speights seat warm.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 15, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"I like the requests coming about KH..."

I imagine he could help somebody, depending on the injury situation. So could Lewis or Josh Howard, in the right circumstances.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Playing for Flip and the Wizards surely isn't the right circumstance since they haven't helped at all here.

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Yes, we understand you don't watch the games.

Posted by: nmik | January 15, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't watch Cleveland play either but does that mean AJ is helping them or is it the wrong circumstance?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 15, 2011 5:31 PM | Report abuse

“I think the number one thing with young players, you got to get them to play hard. Flip 7/21/05

---

"That's one thing as coaches, you can't coach effort." Flip 11/09/10

Kind of an interesting change of philosophy, I would have preferred the '05 Flip that thought it was his job to get the team playing hard.


Posted by: divi3 | January 15, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"Look, why don't you provide some evidence to contradict what was in the article? Not just your opinions, but something concrete. So far you've offered nothing.
Posted by: Samson151"

"your article offered nothing to support your opinion the THE VETS on the sixers didn't like Eddie Jordan and the princeton offense. What you provided to back that up was one single comment from one single "Vet" that criticized the offense they were running, but only at the conclusion of a 55+ loss season and the coach's firing.posted by lilhollywood10"

LOL just as I suspected -- you haven't got any evidence. That's why you devote so much effort to attacking ESPN's...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

"“I think the number one thing with young players, you got to get them to play hard. Flip 7/21/05
"That's one thing as coaches, you can't coach effort." Flip 11/09/10
"Kind of an interesting change of philosophy, I would have preferred the '05 Flip that thought it was his job to get the team playing hard.Posted by: divi3

Maybe Flip learned something important about coaching. Something you have yet to realize?

It's not all about your preference, you know.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Don't know how many of you saw the long article in SI week before last about the genesis of the home court advantage. They looked at a variety of sports & a variety of factors. And came to a conclusion: it's the refs, man. And the bigger the home crowd, the more the refs begin to push the game their way...

Worth reading.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Flip learned something important about coaching.

I suppose you could compare his W-L record then vs more recently and see.

Posted by: divi3 | January 15, 2011 8:04 PM | Report abuse

"I suppose you could compare his W-L record then vs more recently and see.Posted by: divi3"

LOL yeah, different cities, different players, different teams... why should we pay attention to that?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 15, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

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