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Posted at 12:36 PM ET, 01/17/2011

Open thread: Wizards (11-27) vs. Jazz (27-13)

By Michael Lee

Former Wizards coach Eddie Jordan was at Verizon Center for the first time since he was fired by Philadelphia last season. Jordan, who maintains his residence in Maryland, was at the arena earlier on Monday morning to watch his son, Jackson, play an AAU exhibition. He stuck around to watch some of the Wizards' game against Utah and catch up with friends and former co-workers. In honor of the Martin Luther King holiday, Nike-sponsored players are wearing black and gold sneakers. Andray Blatche admitted that he was caught up in the holiday. "I had a dream last night. Yeah, I had a dream that we won the game today, then we went on the road and won there. I woke up, like, 'Whoa!' Then I had another dream that we made the playoffs." Blatche then said, "Hey, dreams can come true, right?"

Let the conversation begin in the thread below. You can also join the conversation on Twitter with Michael Lee (@MrMichaelLee). See your tweets here by using #wizards.

Tipoff: 7 p.m.; TV: CSN; Radio: 106.7 FM.

Check out a live box score from tonight's game here.

By Michael Lee  | January 17, 2011; 12:36 PM ET
 
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Next: On odd afternoon, Wizards get first quality win

Comments

Time for JW to get some "experience" from Deron Williams.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Last time we played them on MLK, Gil had 52 and the game winner. Man we were on top of the world then. Anyways, its home so we have a chance but in the past, precision teams like Utah would always carve us up. Wall is due for a big game but he's struggled against all the top PG's. For some reason his D sucks now too. Whats up with that? His D was great at the start but now he cant stay with anyone which spells doom against Williams.

Just need Dray, NY, and Lewis to have a big game again. I remember what Dray did to Al last year. Wiz fans will remember next year if we trade him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyf6RXN_HQ8&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjeNfr3nnnQ&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z3hAbv7Kn0

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

It's a real shame that year after year, the Bullets are allowed to play on MLKJ Birthday. One man, so great one organization so piss poor. Absolutely nothing in common.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 17, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

you can just tell that Dray is rounding into form and shape. He's looking alot quicker and isnt hesitating as much. On top of that he is so motivated to prove how good he is

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

wow, great defense

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:21 PM | Report abuse

It's a real shame that year after year, the Bullets are allowed to play on MLKJ Birthday. One man, so great one organization so piss poor. Absolutely nothing in common.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 17, 2011 1:07 PM

Love MLK Jr. One of my favorite people ever. But he wasn't perfect and did cheat on his wife. So lets look at the Wizards down seasons as that point in Dr Kings life.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Love MLK Jr. One of my favorite people ever. But he wasn't perfect and did cheat on his wife. So lets look at the Wizards down seasons as that point in Dr Kings life.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 1:23 PM

Have the Bullets ever had anything but "down seasons" since the invention of electricity?

Oh, I forgot, they had a helluva season back in 78! As the stationary in the offices still reflects! What a disgrace! Where's the cake? Bring the cake in! I'm so god damn proud of ya! Rod....Oh Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!

Posted by: jwing14 | January 17, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

9 turnovers

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Kirk again over dribbling, cant run the Offense and cant recognized the mismatches

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't call the playoff seasons a couple years ago "down seasons". When we were healthy we beat the bulls and then after that we got hit with the injury bug going into the playoffs. Unfortunate but it happens. We'll be back. Sooner than later.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Yi like Dray, starting to round into form after his injury

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Andray takes too many jumpers. It's all good when they go in but when the aren't falling then that's a problem. He should post up and drive more.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Can't complain too much so far. Andray is having a good game and the rebounding edge is where we want it. Yes, the Jazz are the better team.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

need Dray back in the game or NY. No one else seems to have that confidence on O right now

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I really wish Mcgee didn't get those two bogus fouls called on him. I think he was really impacting the game and guarding the paint.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

and maybe put McGee back in for energy and the Utah announcers were talking about how McGee is changing shots and making the Jazz think about finishing in the lane

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Happy MLK day to all! Let's go Wiz!

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

That Bulls team was banged up in 2005. Bullets don't win that series if both teams healthy. And I guess you can call them decent seasons (2005-2007) if you are a Bullets fan, since over the last 32 years that is ALL you got. They don't even register in other NBA cities. They are simply insignificant. Even the Clippers have Griffin, while the Bullets have the little fella who is always hurt and when his playing he turns the ball over more than anything.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 17, 2011 1:44 PM | Report abuse

You know Flip is not going to even consider that. McGees spot is right on the bench.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Eddie "The Good Luck Charm" Jordan in the house. I think EJ is trying to be slick and get in Leonsis ear so he can come back and lead the Wiz to its playoff glory.....lol

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Great D overall but Utah is just making some tough shots. Still, I dont want to keep hearing Wiz fans diss NY's & Dray's defense. Dray has been great on D over the last 20 games and NY has been a beast the last 2 years and is getting better every single game. Some fans just arent noticing

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Dray, you still dont have enough quickness back to cross guys over and blow by them. Just keep it simple with a spin move or whatever

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Wall taking over

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Man Yi is the worst finisher ever

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya dlts2041,

NY is an underrated defender, and, when he is focused, AB is a pretty good defender too.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

long jumpers mean long boards. The guards have to be more active on the boards

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 2:01 PM | Report abuse

How long before McGee learns not to go for most head fakes? Not long, I hope.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 2:02 PM | Report abuse

man Dray made me so mad right there. He finally backs someone down in the post, Yi comes down the middle with the clearout and Al is leaning on Dray's back shoulder. All Dray has to do is keep going inside towards the rim and he's got a great look in the paint with the advantage but instead he spins back to his off hand for the fadaway with a hand in his face. You have to be smarter Dray. I dont get what his problem is. Every big man tries to get that shot or drive in the lane because its the easiest way to score. Dray gets it but decides to go the opposite way with a difficult fade

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The Bullets haven't even won a road game yet!
How is that possible, besides being just a horrific squad/organization.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 17, 2011 2:05 PM | Report abuse

How is that possible, besides being just a horrific squad/organization.Posted by: jwing14"

Well, the best I can come up with is a case of the yips.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Ronnie Price needs to hit the weight room next time he wants to deal with Nick in the paint.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

That was a stupid play by Yi. He didnt have to help that deep on Williams and leave a dead eye 3pt shooter like Okur that wide open with that much space. Id much rather have Williams force that tough shot over Kirk then leave Okur open for a 3

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 2:50 PM | Report abuse

NY is such a beast in the post. Definitely have to give him more looks. He's so strong down there and has the best low post game of any wing player not named Wade & Kobe. Shoot, I think his is on par or even better then there's right now and he's actually smarter at it now as he tries to back guys down as far as possible. Dray could learn from that

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Good to see the Wiz exploiting a mismatch.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Ouch! The way NY fell on that ball. I know that hurt. Lucky it didnt knock the wind out of him on top of it

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 2:54 PM | Report abuse

With Nick out I'm always worried we're going to blow the lead. This is a offensively dormant offense imo...except hinrich hit that three

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Stop helping on Williams so much. All he's doing is drive & kicking. Even when he scores himself its from a J. Make him finish in the lane instead of giving up all these open 3's. Thats the only thing they are getting

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 2:56 PM | Report abuse

This would be a blowout if they weren't so hot behind the arc.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:01 PM | Report abuse

put your hands up Wall. I hate it when our guys run out but dont put there hands up. Its so easy for a pro to shoot right over the top. There looking up at the rim anyways so you have to put your hands up to obstruct the view in some way.

Great D again though guys

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:02 PM | Report abuse

put your hands up Wall. I hate it when our guys run out but dont put there hands up. Its so easy for a pro to shoot right over the top. There looking up at the rim anyways so you have to put your hands up to obstruct the view in some way.

Great D again though guys

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:02 PM | Report abuse

This is by far the best & most complete game weve had all year. Very good O with ball movement, very good D for the most part, and actually very good coaching from Flip. I think his sub patterns have been great and he recognized the mismatches like going to NY in the post until they can stop it.

With that being said, the Jazz are so good that they are still in it so we have to finish strong

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

YEAH! Doing really well right now even with Young out

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Im loving Dray & McGee on the boards this game

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Man Dray cant miss those layups but when he missed his last J I said that he looked tired so hopefully he can finish strong or we can sub for a bit

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Actually playing defense is helping a bit.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Al Jefferson cracked his self hard! LOL!

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Maaaaan...I'm at work watching the gametrack...I'm hoping they don't choke and let them all the way back in...they've been in this situation before.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 17, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Man the ref from far outside made that call and it was late. It sucks because Wall was off & running too. That was a big time 4pt swing. I dont want to play not to lose but we may have to start using more clock. They can strike quick and whenever we miss they are running and putting up quick scores. ISO NY in the post again. It will be harder to score against Bell down there but I would give it a look

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm having flashbacks of the Heat game at home. I hope they close this out.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Also...Lets keep it away from Dray.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:15 PM | Report abuse

How they constantly meltdown like this?

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 3:17 PM | Report abuse

As much as I've seen it, I don't believe what I'm seeing.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Good timeout. Hopefully he's drawing up something for Nick Young. I'm tired of him not touching the ball in crunchtime

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Take the air out of the ball.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Nice aggressive move by Andray.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Bout time Dray does that. Go inside towards the middle, towards the paint, and so you can finish with your strong hand

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

YEAH BABY!!! THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:21 PM | Report abuse

The First DAGGER!!

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Nice to hear the DAAAAGERRR!

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Cant fall for that Wall. You know they need 3's

Posted by: dlts2041 | January 17, 2011 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Good Win! Do this on the Road and string some wins together. Ab NY JW good effort today!

Posted by: bullwiz81 | January 17, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Bullets are going to the Finals! Bullets are going to the Finals! Oh, wait, no they are not. They don't win on the road....at all...never....ever. They should change their stupid nickname to "Generals".

Posted by: jwing14 | January 17, 2011 3:27 PM | Report abuse

This was definitely their best game this year. Everyone got involved, went to the line more, outrebounded them. Man, if we could do this on a day to day basis we would be a problem.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 17, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

great win! flip almost lost the game in the end inserting kirk. he quickly inserted mcgee back in. also loved the way flip was vocally coaching the team IN-GAME. just an all around great game all they way from wall to thornton.

Posted by: CantWait90 | January 17, 2011 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"How they constantly meltdown like this?"

Because they are very poorly coached.

I know they won but it's so frustrating to watch them because Flip is a terrible coach. You just knew the Wiz were going to let Utah back in it.

Why is Lewis constantly taking 3's at the end of games when they should be milking the clock? Why is anybody taking a 3 at the end of games WHEN THEY ARE WINNING?

Then Blatche bricks the ball, twice, runs back at the other end and fouls the guy.

When you have a young team like this, this is where the coach has to step in and say,"Hey guys, this is what we need to do!" and Flip never does that. Coaching to Flip is waving his arm for Wall to bring the ball up over the mid court line. The Wiz were up by 10 with 3 mins left and Utah STILL came back.

That should never have happend.

At some point Ted is going to have to realize that Flip is not the coach for this team and make a change. It's getting agonizingly obvious when you watch the Wiz play how poorly coached they are. Today was a great example. It should never have been that close.

Thank God for John Wall.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | January 17, 2011 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Thank GOD for Nick Young.

Posted by: maejude | January 17, 2011 3:44 PM | Report abuse

THEY WON???? GIT DA F_ _K OUTTA HERE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Posted by: dargregmag | January 17, 2011 3:52 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz were up by 10 with 3 mins left and Utah STILL came back.

Why did Flip sit Mcgee after that monstrous putback that put us up 10 and amped the crowd? Did JM do something boneheaded that I missed? Or does Flip just hate rebounding and shot blocking late in the game when you have a lead?

Immediate Utah run with the 3 guard in which I dont think we got a single board, Flip pulls KH for Javale with the lead down to 3...and the Wiz go on an immediate 6-0 run. Lesson learned for Flip I hope.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Kirk 25:16 mins 0 rebs?

Didn't I use to read people complain about NY not getting any rebounds?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 4:07 PM | Report abuse

The Arenas trade is looking good beyond just clearing out some salary cap space.

Young has stepped up his game big-time since being moved into the starting line up -- he's a better play than Arenas on defense, and offensively he's a nice compliment for Hinrich and Wall -- the 46 percent FG and 40 percent conversion rate from 3-pt is great on 14+ shots a game.

Lewis has been a nice upgrade at SF and PF. Temperamentally he's a huge improvement. No drama, just hustle, hard work, and unselfish play. He makes contributions on both sides of the court.

Posted by: JPRS | January 17, 2011 4:22 PM | Report abuse

AB's best game of the year? He was really solid throughout the game, and Wall looked a lot healthier. The Wizards are now 5-5 for the last 10 games.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 17, 2011 4:25 PM | Report abuse

divi3; Just Know This!! Flip would light a match in a sea of gasoline, that is why Javale's play is like a roller coaster because Flip has no idea not a freaking clue how develop this kid's talent, and i don't wanna hear about Kevin Garnett because he was a natural.

Posted by: dargregmag | January 17, 2011 4:31 PM | Report abuse

The Arenas trade is looking good beyond just clearing out some salary cap space.

Young has stepped up his game big-time since being moved into the starting line up -- he's a better play than Arenas on defense, and offensively he's a nice compliment for Hinrich and Wall -- the 46 percent FG and 40 percent conversion rate from 3-pt is great on 14+ shots a game.

Posted by: JPRS | January 17, 2011 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Any reasonable person would wonder why Flip insisted on starting Kirk ahead of NY for the first 24 games?

The unreasonable followers use to defend Flip saying Kirk brought veteran leadership and he would mentor Wall?

Wizards 5-9 since NY started and 7-18 while Kirk started...I've been saying since the start of the season if the Wizards are going with a youth movement then start JW, NY, AB, AT, JM and see what they can do.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Why did Flip sit Mcgee after that monstrous putback that put us up 10 and amped the crowd? Did JM do something boneheaded that I missed? Or does Flip just hate rebounding and shot blocking late in the game when you have a lead?

Immediate Utah run with the 3 guard in which I dont think we got a single board, Flip pulls KH for Javale with the lead down to 3...and the Wiz go on an immediate 6-0 run. Lesson learned for Flip I hope.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 3:59 PM

Since I did not watch the game I would guess two things factor into him being yanked.

1. Horrible free throw shooter.

2. Teams down by ten tend to go to small ball to create mismatches on the perimter to get a wide open 3 point shots.

Example:: If you watch the Duke vs MD last week Singler playing the 5 and got matched up with Jordan Williams. Singler immediately hit a 3 since Williams had no clue how to guard a wing player.

Posted by: dcinmd1 | January 17, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag,

So your argument is that any example that demonstrates that Flip develops talent can't be true, because well, it can't be true.

That's not giving the guy any due. If NONE of his young players ever developed, then maybe it might be evidence of something. But in addition to KG, we have some examples here in Nick Young and Blatche, and even McGee, which seem to indicate that he probably is doing something to help talented young players develop into NBA caliber talent (e.g. some of Blatche's post moves we know he picked up from work with Cassell -- even if you want to give Cassell most of the coaching credit, you have to at least give Flip some credit for hiring a quality assistant).

Most of the burden is on the players themselves -- if they don't have the desire to improve it really doesn't matter how much physical talent they have, or how much coaching there is, the player won't maximize his talent. But you've got to figure that the mix of coaching (including assistants) and veteran leadership plays a role in the process.

As far as McGee goes, today I think Flip made a mistake by waiting too long to substitute McGee back in for Hinrich, but on balance he did a good job of managing his rotation. It's also true that McGee has developed into a more complete player than he was when he was first drafted. I don't think you can attribute all of this to McGee's ability to learn the game through desire and osmosis. McGee appears to be absorbing some of the lessons he's learning from coaches and other veterans and applying those lessons on the court.

Posted by: JPRS | January 17, 2011 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Just looked at the box score and see that Blatche has a great offensive stat line:

21 pts, 11 rebs, 3 asts, 3 stls, 4 blks

He scored efficiently (53%) and played very effective defense. Hats off to Andray for an all-around great game!

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | January 17, 2011 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Teams down by ten tend to go to small ball to create mismatches on the perimter to get a wide open 3 point shots.

Checked the play-by-play, Utah had their regular lineup in. But Flip only put KH in for a minute before going back to Mcgee, perhaps it just seemed longer due to the sinking feel we were witnessing another meltdown.

Nick was downright dominant in the 4thQ, Raja Bell and AK-47 are terrific defenders and neither could check him. He's starting to expand his game, was using his size against Bell rather than relying on the fadeways.

Hope we can keep him

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

"Just looked at the box score and see that Blatche has a great offensive stat line:
Posted by: bazookajoe1"

His best of the year, I thought. Has to make him feel better.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

It's unexpected fun to watch fans try to micromanage the game from the living room. The Flip haters hating on Flip, the Nickophiles loving up the Nickster... ultimately this was Andray Blatche's game. He looked like he did during that stretch last season. And John Wall didn't exactly get 'schooled' by Williams, did he?

A nice win for a team that really needs one. Let's set aside partisan peccadillos for a day and enjoy the victory.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Kirk 25:16 mins 0 rebs?

Didn't I use to read people complain about NY not getting any rebounds?

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Yeah, for the season. Not just a game.

Can't even be happy for a nice win? Sad, very sad.

Posted by: ts35 | January 17, 2011 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I should point out that one of the best parts of the last two games is the free throw shooting...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"Sad, very sad.Posted by: ts35"

I don't think it's the dope talking, either.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78,

Why did Flip start Hinrich at PG when Wall was injured? Why did Arenas get the starting nod over Nick Young when flip experimented with a two PG starting line-up?

If developing players was just about giving max minutes to the younger players, then it would make a lot more sense to have Lewis coming off the bench too. Of course you want to win too, so you go with the line-up and rotation that gives you a chance to win.

Anytime you have a new set of players you're going to find some part of the season figuring out what combinations work out in different situations. This is a team just one season removed from a 19 win season, so the fact that the team lost a lot of games to start the year is what it is. The fact that the team is 5-9 after playing a stretch of its schedule where they've only played 5 teams with .500+ records is also a statement about how far the team still has to go.

Not really sure what your beef is. Maybe it's something to do with Hinrich's pigmentation?

Posted by: JPRS | January 17, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

The petty, childish bickering on this board is something. What is wrong with you people?
----------------

This was the Wiz's best effort of the year, pure and simple. Excellent games by Dray and John, in particular. All against a quality opponent. Keep it up, Wiz!

Posted by: rbelleisle | January 17, 2011 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Wow, someone on the blog got some fishing tackle for Christmas and was anxious to go trolling today.

Way to go today 'Dray, nice game. Looks like the negativity crowd is going to have to do something else tonight instead of blog Wizards topics. Nice team effort too. 5 and 5 in the last 10, could have been better, but have to start somewhere.

By the way, as someone already said, starting a young player is not necessarily the best way to develop him. I used to wonder why they did not pay kids like to Nick, Javale, and Andray to lock them in for years early, as I was confident in each of them. I learned that they don't develop when they are made fat and happy, spoiled early. I have always been a big fan of Nick right from the start( I was the one yelling "light 'em up Nick" at the arena the last few years), but he had to pay hid dues (and still does) to truly develop.

We are blessed to have a vet presence like Kirk, and should appreciate it.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | January 17, 2011 5:53 PM | Report abuse

the trolling reference was to someone posting earlier, by the way. rbelle makes two great points.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | January 17, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Not really sure what your beef is. Maybe it's something to do with Hinrich's pigmentation?

Posted by: JPRS | January 17, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

We are blessed to have a vet presence like Kirk, and should appreciate it.


Posted by: ragtop4spd | January 17, 2011 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Can't even be happy for a nice win? Sad, very sad.

Posted by: ts35 | January 17, 2011 5:23 PM | Report abuse

For all 3 of you, I own a business and understand you can't get too excitied by having a good "DAY" or get too upset by a bad "DAY"....in business you look at the business over an amount of time depending on the company's goals and objectives.

I don't have a problem with Kirk, I do have a problem with the organizations philosophy or lack of one?

If the team wants to go young great play the young players and let Wall and NY learn how to play together...and yes that means they need to learn how to come up big at the end of games and if they lose who cares it's a learning experience.

Okay,let me get this right...the Wizards need Kirk to mentor Wall but the big men should learn on their own? That makes sense?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 6:13 PM | Report abuse

great win! flip almost lost the game in the end inserting kirk. he quickly inserted mcgee back in. also loved the way flip was vocally coaching the team IN-GAME. just an all around great game all they way from wall to thornton.

Posted by: CantWait90 | January 17, 2011 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I like Hinrich. He was a great acquisition and he's going to help this team a lot -- until, just maybe, they ship him to a contender just before the trade deadline, and why not, if they get a decent young PG backup and a draft pick?

But as soon as McGee came out, the Jazz got three buckets right at the basket. That wouldn't happen with McGee in there. Fortunately, Flip got the picture and put the big guy back in there.

Posted by: zinger1 | January 17, 2011 6:23 PM | Report abuse

EG and Flip offered Nick to Portland for Rudy Fernandez in June. His emergence is as unexpected to management as it is to those who thought he'd be in Europe next season.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 6:33 PM | Report abuse

By the way, I can't recall any other opponent connecting on 14 of 27 3 pointers against us in quite a while. Impressive to beat a team that's shooting that well from outside.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 6:36 PM | Report abuse

"EG and Flip offered Nick to Portland for Rudy Fernandez in June. His emergence is as unexpected to management as it is to those who thought he'd be in Europe next season.Posted by: divi3"

LOL I'm guessing you give all the credit to the coaching...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 6:37 PM | Report abuse

I'm guessing you give all the credit to the coaching

In this case most of the credit to the player, who continued to work hard and stay positive after the coaches had written him off. Did you see that blurb on the other site which mentioned Nick hit 30, yes 30, 3pt'ers in a row at practice and Flip ignored him? The plan this season included virtually no minutes for Nick, now he is the best player on the team. It's not hating to question management about a situation like that.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 6:48 PM | Report abuse

divi3

Didn't you know it was Flip's plan all along to sit Nick and start Kirk at the begining of the season knowing that would motivate him?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 7:06 PM | Report abuse

For all 3 of you, I own a business and understand you can't get too excitied by having a good "DAY" or get too upset by a bad "DAY"....in business you look at the business over an amount of time depending on the company's goals and objectives.
Posted by: bulletsfan78

Hmmm, not being positive even after a win, aside from being sad, it sounds like something you've criticized Flip for in the past. Don't recall anyone getting "too excited" about this win. If allowing yourself a moment to enjoy a win constitutes "too excited" perhaps you should find another hobby. As for not getting "too upset", I would call that your general attitude.

If the team wants to go young great play the young players and let Wall and NY learn how to play together...and yes that means they need to learn how to come up big at the end of games and if they lose who cares it's a learning experience.

Welllllll, considering Nick (btw @ 25, not so young anymore) and J-Wall were on the floor to close the game and KH was on the bench.......

Okay,let me get this right...the Wizards need Kirk to mentor Wall but the big men should learn on their own? That makes sense?

No kidding! They should really trade for an big man with playoff experience! Oh, wait....

Posted by: ts35 | January 17, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

"In this case most of the credit to the player, who continued to work hard and stay positive after the coaches had written him off. posted by divi3"

I was just teasing ya. I know you think Nick's been mistreated. But Ernie drafted the guy over some better known players (Sean Williams, Javaris Crittenton, Jason Smith) and IMO he's developed more under Flip than the other coaches. Back in June it did look like he might wind up as a career underachiever. He could still have a setback a la Blatche, as well.

Who's to say Nick would have developed faster under a different regime? And I suspect he may benefit most from the jump shooting inherent in a guard's role here.

I don't know whether Nick will stay in Washington -- he may get a better offer elsewhere, and we know his heart is in SoCal -- but I don't think he has much to complain about. Besides, you're here to complain for him.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 8:00 PM | Report abuse

But I would have to agree that the great majority of credit for improvement after they arrive in the NBA must go to the player, not the coaches. Also the major part of the blame if they don't.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Nick Young just didn't get to be the best player on this team, he's always been. Someone brought up pigmentation, do you really think Miller, Kirk, Foy, Steverson, or anybody else that you had at the 2 is better. Pigmentation, if Gil don't do what he did and bring media attention to why nick wasn't playing[ &50,000] FLOP wouldn't be playing him now. And you AO would still be talking about trade or over seas.[I know thats human nature].

Posted by: maejude | January 17, 2011 8:06 PM | Report abuse

"Nick Young just didn't get to be the best player on this team, he's always been. posted by maejude"

I'm surprised to hear that opinion.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Maejude, much props because you and Gil have been on the Nick Young bandwagon from jumpstreet. Nick is absolutely balling and really the reason (along with Javale) that I still have my season tickets. As Nick develops and improves on his ability to drive to the basket he will become even more unguardable. There are few point guards in the league who have the aresenal of being able to get his shot off the dribble, being an excellent spot up shooter and having the athleticism to finish at the rim.

Tonights performance was notable because Raja Bell is one of the better and more physical defenders and Nick met the challenge physically and mentally.

Irrespective of the mistakes that he makes Javale Mcgee is a gamechanger and absolutely has to be in the game during criunchtime

Posted by: NewManagement | January 17, 2011 8:21 PM | Report abuse

"Pigmentation, if Gil don't do what he did and bring media attention to why nick wasn't playing[ &50,000] FLOP wouldn't be playing him now. And you AO would still be talking about trade or over seas.[I know thats human nature].Posted by: maejude"

OK I should have read the above before replying. Now I see where you're coming from.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Nick came out of college playing like this, he just never was given the chance. Where is javARIS ,Smith, and Williams.

Posted by: maejude | January 17, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

"Where is javARIS ,Smith, and Williams.
Posted by: maejude"

Pardon me for not answering the above -- like I said, I already know where you're coming from.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 8:46 PM | Report abuse

I know you think Nick's been mistreated.

Mistreated? That's a strong word to describe anyone paid millions to play a game. I'm sure I never used that word.

Back in June it did look like he might wind up as a career underachiever.

No it didnt. Back in June it looked like Flip mistakenly believed that Hinrich was a better SG than Nick. Due to injuries, Flip's been made to see the error of his ways and now Young is taking on the role of primary option for the team....lo and behold Wiz are winning more games. Shame Flip didnt realize what he had sooner, maybe we'd be looking at the playoffs.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Welllllll, considering Nick (btw @ 25, not so young anymore) and J-Wall were on the floor to close the game and KH was on the bench.......

Immediate Utah run with the 3 guard in which I dont think we got a single board, Flip pulls KH for Javale with the lead down to 3...and the Wiz go on an immediate 6-0 run. Lesson learned for Flip I hope.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Okay,let me get this right...the Wizards need Kirk to mentor Wall but the big men should learn on their own? That makes sense?

No kidding! They should really trade for an big man with playoff experience! Oh, wait....

Posted by: ts35 | January 17, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Who are you talking about Lewis? What's another soft big man going to teach McGee?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Nick Young knew going into the season that he was looking at reduced minutes because the team also had Gilbert and Hinrich. That's why he talked about bulking up to get minutes at SF (not his natural position). Few people argued at the time that Nick was a better option than Arenas (you might have, of course). Most observers believed Gilbert and Wall were the best backcourt, even though some expressed doubts that they'd play well together (me, for instance).

With Gilbert sitting out, Flip decided to pair his rookie PG with the veteran Hinrich, a combo guard but one who prefers playing the point. That's a pretty rational call for a coach to make. At the time he was thinking that Gil would be here all season. In his minutes, Nick showed improved defense and shot selection, and earned more time. When Gil left, he moved into the starting role and Hinrich began coming off the bench.

You won't accept that scenario, but it does in fact make sense from a coaching perspective.

Now he's got his shot, and at home at least, is making the most of it. I don't know why he's struggling on the road; Flip says it's his comfort level.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 9:15 PM | Report abuse

BTW the Wiz are now 12-8 at home; that's better than Indy, Charlotte, the Bucks, Detroit, the Raptors, NJ, the Cavs, Phoenix, the Clips, Golden State, Houston, Minnesota, and Sacramento. The schedule affects that, of course; today was really their best win. The road record is an anomaly. Nonetheless we can't blame that road losing streak on the rotations.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

With Gilbert sitting out, Flip decided to pair his rookie PG with the veteran Hinrich, a combo guard but one who prefers playing the point. That's a pretty rational call for a coach to make.

What's rational about expecting a 6'2" 190 PG to play SG? Or SF? That's what I pointed out all summer, and it came to pass that indeed, Nick is a far superior SG to Hinrich who is a PG anyway.

Flip didnt know what he had in Nick, that's a cardinal sin for a coach and talent evaluator. Young is quickly becoming a legit #1 scorer, and his defense is well above average. But they tried to trade him for RudyF? That's a bad joke, and reason enough for people to question the acumen of the folks proposing these trades and doling out PT.

But then again, half the folks on these boards would have supported that trade, so I guess from their perspective it all makes sense.

Posted by: divi3 | January 17, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Most observers believed Gilbert and Wall were the best backcourt, even though some expressed doubts that they'd play well together (me, for instance).

With Gilbert sitting out, Flip decided to pair his rookie PG with the veteran Hinrich, a combo guard but one who prefers playing the point. That's a pretty rational call for a coach to make. At the time he was thinking that Gil would be here all season. In his minutes, Nick showed improved defense and shot selection, and earned more time. When Gil left, he moved into the starting role and Hinrich began coming off the bench.

You won't accept that scenario, but it does in fact make sense from a coaching perspective.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 17, 2011 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Gil was out for what 4 games?

After those 4 games Flip kept Kirk and Wall as his starters till Wall got hurt then he played Gil and Kirk and he didn't start Nick till Gil got traded, but he started Kirk 22 of the first 24 games.

So, no I don't accept your scenario, but it does in fact make Flip look foolish from a coaching perspective.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Immediate Utah run with the 3 guard in which I dont think we got a single board, Flip pulls KH for Javale with the lead down to 3...and the Wiz go on an immediate 6-0 run. Lesson learned for Flip I hope.
Posted by: divi3

Well, since your stated complaint was that Wall and Young needed to be allowed to finish the game together -- and they did -- not really sure what you're complaining about. More of just sensing a desire to complain regardless of what happens.

Who are you talking about Lewis? What's another soft big man going to teach McGee?
Posted by: bulletsfan78

You really need to decide which side of all of your arguments you're on.

First, you complain that EG doesn't draft any talented players. Then you complain that those same talentless players aren't playing enough.

Now, you seem to be complaining that Hinrich isn't worth his salt as a mentor, and yet complaining that the bigs don't have a mentor like him, and yet when they get one, he doesn't live up to Hinrich's standard?

Again, I'm sensing that the common thread is just a general desire to complain.

Posted by: ts35 | January 17, 2011 10:16 PM | Report abuse

In this case most of the credit to the player, who continued to work hard and stay positive after the coaches had written him off.
Posted by: divi3

And yet, he's playing well doing pretty much exactly what Flip (and probably EJ) asked him to do all along. Give effort on both ends, don't slack off on effort when your shot isn't falling, and learn to shoot coming off of screens. Credit does go to Nick for doing them. And then, as if by magic, when he does, his coach trusts him more.

I continue to love the general vibe on these boards that anything a player does wrong is the coach's fault and anything the player does right is totally because of the player. Unless it's Kirk Hinrich, in which case, he can't do anything right.

Shame Flip didnt realize what he had sooner, maybe we'd be looking at the playoffs.

Seriously? Given the disparity in Nick's performance at home and on the road, pretty safe to say that he suffers from the same malady as the rest of the team. He's also played more than 20 minutes in all but 7 games. He owns their record equally with all of the other players and coaches.

Posted by: ts35 | January 17, 2011 10:48 PM | Report abuse

ts35,

My common thread is the lack of consistency from the Wizard organization.

Well, since your stated complaint was that Wall and Young needed to be allowed to finish the game together -- and they did -- not really sure what you're complaining about.

What one game?

First, you complain that EG doesn't draft any talented players. Then you complain that those same talentless players aren't playing enough.

I post that if the Wizards are in a youth movement play the young players to see if they have any talent...when the coach plays the vet players instead that makes me think (since I don't see the games) Flip believes the young guys don't have the talent.

So, Yes I would prefer the Wizards stick with the young guys to find out if they can play together as a group...that way the organization may know which way to turn next year instead of throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks?

Now, you seem to be complaining that Hinrich isn't worth his salt as a mentor, and yet complaining that the bigs don't have a mentor like him, and yet when they get one, he doesn't live up to Hinrich's standard?

No, I am being consistent that Nick should have started ahead of Kirk and by the way things have turned out it looks like I was right.

My point about Lewis is the Wizards won't go out and get a big man coach and people on here say they need to learn on their own but I've been posting the Wizards have needed a big man coach since the day I started posting.

Yes I have doubts if Lewis is the right guy to teach AB and McGee, think about what they learned practicing with AJ and BTH?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 17, 2011 11:31 PM | Report abuse

My common thread is the lack of consistency from the Wizard organization.
Posted by: bulletsfan78

Yeah, that lack of consistency seems to be contagious.

"Well, since your stated complaint was that Wall and Young needed to be allowed to finish the game together -- and they did -- not really sure what you're complaining about."

What one game?

Well, so far this season, Nick has progressed from bench player, to key bench player, to starter, to go-to option. Again, not sure what the complaint is.

I post that if the Wizards are in a youth movement play the young players to see if they have any talent...(edited for space) So, Yes I would prefer the Wizards stick with the young guys to find out if they can play together as a group...that way the organization may know which way to turn next year instead of throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks?

Well, considering 4/5ths of the starting lineup currently consists of what you would call young players and we're not even halfway through the season.....

But young players don't learn how to play in a vacuum. No, not even the vaunted OKC 3. Playing all young players all the time has a tendency to not do much more than reinforce bad habits.

No, I am being consistent that Nick should have started ahead of Kirk and by the way things have turned out it looks like I was right.

Problem being that it wasn't just about Hinrich vs Young, it was Hinrich vs Young vs Wall vs Arenas, and injuries played a significant factor. The other factor that everyone so interested in developing youth seems to overlook was that they were intent on starting a rookie PG. So the idea was to pair him with a SG who could help with some of the ballhandling and initating responsibilites early on, be it Gil or KH.

Posted by: ts35 | January 18, 2011 1:03 AM | Report abuse


My point about Lewis is the Wizards won't go out and get a big man coach and people on here say they need to learn on their own but I've been posting the Wizards have needed a big man coach since the day I started posting.

And as has been said many times, Gene Banks (and apparently Randy Wittman) work with the bigs. You can argue you would like different coaches for them, but if you want to be accurate, they've had coaches for them all along. Before you launch into another tirade about the qualifications for either based purely on height, you may want to check into how tall Pete Newell was. Am I saying better coaches can't be found? Of course not. But since we know very little about what happens in practice it's really a bit of a bogus complaint. Especially since it doesn't take into account the extent to which the bigs we have are even willing to work on their games.

Yes I have doubts if Lewis is the right guy to teach AB and McGee, think about what they learned practicing with AJ and BTH?

Can Lewis teach them everything they need to know? Probably not. But he's been a high caliber player in the league for a long time, and the last few years has played on one of the best defensive teams in the league. So I would dare say that there are some things he can pass along, and a lot of it is central to what they need to learn most.

As for AJ, wasn't it AB who credited him with trying to teach Blatche about what it takes to be a professional? If a student isn't learning, it's got to be entirely the teachers' fault right?

Going back to the whole "Let all of the young players play together" thing, but more importantly, your inconsistency thing, I continue to marvel at the idea. You have no faith in the GM or the coaches, yet you seem to believe that if you put all of the young players out there together, they will somehow manage to figure out on their own the right way to play. Genius.

Does Flip tend to overplay his vets on a younger team, yep. But in case you've missed it, as the season has been moving along, things have been trending the way most of us would hope. Young is now trusted by his coach and starting, McGee is generally playing the minutes most would like to see. Lewis' arrival hasn't pushed Blatche into a backup role.

So if the complaint is now centered around guys like Booker and Seraphin not playing enough, why don't we just wait and see what happens? We're not even halfway through the season yet. Seraphin has already started to get more looks. H was sent to the D-League as he should have been. Booker is averaging as many minutes (or more often more) than guys drafted at around the same position in the draft. His time on the court will be affected, at least in the short term, by Yi's return. But Yi is still essentially a young player, at least as much as Nick Young is. With guys like Booker and Seraphin, there's no hurry this season. They're under contract for years.

Posted by: ts35 | January 18, 2011 1:18 AM | Report abuse

"What's rational about expecting a 6'2" 190 PG to play SG? Or SF? That's what I pointed out all summer, and it came to pass that indeed, Nick is a far superior SG to Hinrich who is a PG anyway."

I think we're talking at cross-purposes. It was reasonable to play Kirk next to Wall or Arenas because his skills complement both players. Wall and Arenas, on the other hand, don't necessarily complement one another.

Had Nick demonstrated the level of play then that he has in recent games, he still probably wouldn't have started, because Gilbert was in front of him.

The argument that Flip grossly underestimated Nick's skills is largely fanciful. Nick hadn't demonstrated those skills in any consistent way. And in some respects, he still hasn't.

No point in premature declarations of victory.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 18, 2011 4:58 AM | Report abuse

So Flip is planning on giving all 12 players minutes???

I guess he figures 3 in 4 days means players need rest. But he sure looks like he is trying to give the Bucks (who look horrible btw) a shot...

Posted by: justmy2 | January 19, 2011 8:41 PM | Report abuse

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