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Posted at 2:44 PM ET, 01/20/2011

Rashard Lewis battling knee injury

By Gene Wang

Just a couple weeks ago, the Washington Wizards practiced for the first time with a full roster. Now injuries are beginning to mount again, as forward Rashard Lewis continues to deal with a sore right knee and swingman Josh Howard is not mending as quickly as he had hoped from a sore left knee.

Lewis played 37 minutes in last night's 100-87 loss to Milwaukee and finished with eight points while missing 8 of 11 shots, including all five of his three-pointers. The Wizards lost for the 20th consecutive time on the road since the start of the season.

The injury to Lewis comes at an especially inopportune time, with the Wizards in the middle of a grueling stretch of three games in four nights and eight games in 11 days. Washington plays Phoenix tomorrow in the first of two games in as many nights at Verizon Center. Its opponent on Saturday is Boston, which has the best record in the Eastern Conference.

"I know I'll be able to play tomorrow," said Lewis, who indicated his knee had been bothering him since he joined the Wizards in a Dec. 18 trade that sent Gilbert Arenas to Orlando, "but I don't know how I'll feel in a back-to-back."

Howard, meantime, is at least several weeks from getting back onto the court as he mends from tendinitis in his left knee that flared up on Jan. 5 in a 109-97 loss to Philadelphia at Wells Fargo Center. Howard played 12 minutes against the 76ers and missed all three of his field goal attempts before leaving for good. The former all-star with the Dallas Mavericks since has missed the past seven games.

"It's the same thing it's always been as far as his knee," Coach Flip Saunders said.

Howard received treatment on his knee on Monday at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York. His first setback with tendinitis came in November, delaying his season debut, and it appears doubtful he'll be ready to go when the Wizards play his former team on Jan. 31.

By Gene Wang  | January 20, 2011; 2:44 PM ET
Categories:  Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis  
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Next: John Wall vs. Steve Nash, Part 2

Comments

Doesn't Hinrich also have a knee problem? (I heard someone say that though I don't know that the problem is his knee.)

He's certainly limping on the court.

Posted by: nmik | January 20, 2011 3:01 PM | Report abuse

and swingman Josh Howard is not mending as quickly as he had hoped from a sore left knee."

Well who woulda thunk it?

Weren't there folks mentioning here there's no reason to expect much from JH that soon from that injury? They really need to stop gassing everyone up. JH will be in and out the line up for the next year and a half with that problem.

Posted by: gmac78 | January 20, 2011 3:04 PM | Report abuse

speaking of fines, I'm thinking they should start fine Hinrich every time he wears those whack azz Converse

Posted by: gmac78 | January 20, 2011 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Lewis played 37 minutes in last night's and finished with eight points while missing 8 of 11 shots, including all five of his three-pointers.

If he has a knee problem why did he play 37 mins considering he was having such a bad shooting night?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

As soon as the Bucks started to extend the lead, he called a TO.


Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

What?

He called a timeout after the Bucks were up by 11?

I watched the MD@Duke game and coach K called a TO 1:45 after the TV TO because MD went on a 6-0 run and after the TO Duke took the lead and never lost it...

But if he's a crappy coach, what difference would him calling a timeout make in the first place?

None since it doesn't sound like the players are listening to him anymore.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 3:35 PM | Report abuse

speaking of fines, I'm thinking they should start fine Hinrich every time he wears those whack azz Converse

Posted by: gmac78 | January 20, 2011 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Really...I thought he had the best looking shoes on the court on most night. Blatche is the one that needs new shoes. He thinks he can play like Kobe with Kobes' on.

Posted by: JustinChuck189 | January 20, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Recently, while John Wall was going over game film, Wizards assistant Ryan Saunders pointed out that the No. 1 overall pick was walking nonchalantly into his jump shots instead of consistently stepping into them and jumping. Saunders also noticed that Wall displayed a defeatist attitude -- frowning, tugging at his jersey and rolling his eyes after poor plays.


Maybe Ryan should spend some time watching his old man...maybe he would suggest Flip get fined for every time he criticizes his young players...maybe that's why some of them visibly express their frustrations, and lose focus and confidence?

Fans should be thankful for the leadership of Ryan Saunders and Kirk Hinrich if they weren't here the Wizards would probably 0-40.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Recently, while John Wall was going over game film, Wizards assistant Ryan Saunders pointed out that the No. 1 overall pick was walking nonchalantly into his jump shots instead of consistently stepping into them and jumping. Saunders also noticed that Wall displayed a defeatist attitude -- frowning, tugging at his jersey and rolling his eyes after poor plays.


Maybe Ryan should spend some time watching his old man...maybe he would suggest Flip get fined for every time he criticizes his young players...maybe that's why some of them visibly express their frustrations, and lose focus and confidence?

Fans should be thankful for the leadership of Ryan Saunders and Kirk Hinrich if they weren't here the Wizards would probably 0-40.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 3:46 PM | Report abuse

@justinclark189;

Are those what AB's wearing? The Kobe's? I didn't catch those but you're right bout thinking he can play like Kobe. Moves just don't work the same with a man guarding you, right?

But yeah, I'm cool with retros taking it back and all but I can't get with those Cons Kirk's been pushing. Maybe if they were crispy cause his be leaning out there.

Posted by: gmac78 | January 20, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"But if he's a crappy coach, what difference would him calling a timeout make in the first place?

None since it doesn't sound like the players are listening to him anymore."

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 3:35 PM

Which leads to the inevitable question:

If it doesn't make any difference whether he called a time out, why have you polluted 3 or 4 different threads with your asinine complaints about him not calling one?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 20, 2011 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: tgif11 | January 20, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

But yeah, I'm cool with retros taking it back and all but I can't get with those Cons Kirk's been pushing. Maybe if they were crispy cause his be leaning out there.

Posted by: gmac78 | January 20, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

they look like lowtop Vans or DCs, definitely not an athletic shoe. But he's comfy in them so who cares, he obviously doesn't. i wish Cinverse did though. They are owned by NIKE and really have no excuse not putting out a better looking shoe and then making their players wear them. I think Elton Brand has a converse signature shoe, Lou williams is also with Converse neither one of them is rockin those Air Frisbee Trainers.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 20, 2011 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Which leads to the inevitable question:

If it doesn't make any difference whether he called a time out, why have you polluted 3 or 4 different threads with your asinine complaints about him not calling one?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 20, 2011 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I do it just for you

I hope if you read my wise words enough times you'll finally see the light and come over to the other side where you'll feel safe to remove your blinders so you can finally speak the truth without fear of prosecution from your fellow apologist.

What can I say I like to help you guys who aren't as knowledgeable.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

He called a timeout after the Bucks were up by 11?

When the Bucks went up by 4, he called a timeout. 9:53 (3rd)

The Wizards closed, but then the Bucks extended it back to 4 and Flip took another timeout @ 5:33 (3rd)

The Wizards closed it to 2, and the Bucks extended it back to 5 and Milwaukee took a timeout (or it was a mandatory timeout. On the broadcast, I never saw a Milwaukee player call for the timeout.) @ 2:47 (3rd)

The Bucks extended it to 7. Then with basically no time left in the 3rd, Wall committed back-to-back dumb fouls on Boykins giving Earl two shots to close the quarter, extending it to 9. Then there was the timeout between quarters.

Coming back in to the 4th, the Wiz closed it to 7, where it stayed for three minutes. At 9:07, the Bucks hit a shot to make it 9, then another at 8:34 to make it 11. That little :30 4 pt run caused Flip to call a timeout (Coach K let it go all the way to 6).

So in the actual time it took for The Bucks to get their 11pt lead, Flip called 3 timeouts and two others were built into the game. So that's 5 timeouts taken.

None of the timeouts really appeared to help, so perhaps you should start advocating for Flip to stop calling timeouts.

NBA rules
Each team has six timeouts for each game, four of which are mandatory and are used at specific times in each of the four quarters. Each team also has two 20-second timeouts which can be used (one in each half, and they cannot be carried over or saved).

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

None of the timeouts really appeared to help, so perhaps you should start advocating for Flip to stop calling timeouts.

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

I think I have been when I write Fire Flip

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

NO! - Fire Grunfeld.

Posted by: member8 | January 20, 2011 7:35 PM | Report abuse

I think I have been when I write Fire Flip

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Perhaps you should stick to that instead of specific critiques which aren't your strong suit.

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps you should stick to that instead of specific critiques which aren't your strong suit.

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 7:43 PM | Report abuse

All I did was ask a question...can't help it if you don't like being wrong.

Just like when I use to write about how the Wizards would never win with Ernie's crew of Gil, DS, CB, AJ and BTH everyone called me names but when I turned out to be right...no one would apologize and admit I was right.

That's why I stay true to my opinion and when Flip gets fired and Ted either fires Ernie or Ernie convinces Ted to give him another chance to rebuild and trade AB, JM, Kirk, NY, Lewis noone will admit I was right then either...

But enjoy your all of the losing and keep up your support because most of the fans on here realize that this team is nothing but a fraud like the last one Ernie built.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 7:58 PM | Report abuse

"Skins_fan_22, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.... Did you seriously just try to claim that Ernie Grunfeld was the problem? You mean the guy who turned this franchise around from perennial joke to 4 straight playoff appearances, he's the problem? You mean the guy that somehow convinced the Lakers to trade us Caron Butler for Kwame Brown, he's the problem?? BAaaaahahahahahahahaha!!!"

You are defending Grunfeld using years-old, obsolete weaponry. Here's an update: 2008-2009 record, 19 - 63. Earned us the fifth pick in the 2009 draft. Traded for Mike Miller and Randy Foye, both of whom leave after one year. Players passed over in RD one: Ricky Rubio, Stephon Curry, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson. 2nd pick traded for... cash. Players passed over: Dujuan Blair, Chase Budinger, Patrick Mills, etc. 2009 - 2010 record, 26 - 56. Get number one pick in draft. Draft John Wall (duh), trade up to get PF without interior size or an outside shot, and project French big. Record: 12 - 28, with franchise-record 20 straight losses on road. Going further back over the past 7.5 years, including the alleged glory days of the 'Big Three', Grunfeld's total record as GM of the Washington Wizards: 253 - 361. Times made the second round of the playoffs... once. Summarily dismissed. Currently out of the running to even get into the playoffs in this, his eighth season. I don't know how you evaluate job performance... perhaps you are a cozy Gov bureaucrat not beholden to performance reviews... but to me, and most of the developed and developing world, that's lousy by any measure. Why do posters on here continue to back Grunfeld? Seriously. What has he done that impresses you so? Nearly half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. Getting into them in roughly half your years as GM is average. Advancing to the second round once in seven years is decidedly BELOW average. He has had eight years to put the right team together yet the team has ONLY GOTTEN WORSE in recent years, and has NEVER HAD A MODICUM OF A CHANCE of 'CONTENDING'. How has this cat brainwashed so many fervent, otherwise intelligent Wizards fans, not to mention a current owner who actually gives a toss about putting a winning product on the floor? The Redskins under Daniel Snyder (76 - 100), many of those years under Vinny Ceratto, have actually been better than the Wiz under Grunfeld. Seriously people, the stats are right in front of you, and they do not lie. We need a new GM.

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 20, 2011 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Watching the MD game and Va Tech runs out to a 10-0 lead and if Ernie was the coach instead of calling a TO he would have waited for another 2 mins for the TV TO?

So instead of being down by 20 they are down by 4 why call a TO?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

All I did was ask a question...can't help it if you don't like being wrong.

Sure, the kind of blind question absent of context, and which was ultimately irrelevant as you yourself admitted.

And I've also proved several times over that the very premise of your question was incorrect.

Just like when I use to write about how the Wizards would never win with Ernie's crew of Gil, DS, CB, AJ and BTH everyone called me names but when I turned out to be right...no one would apologize and admit I was right.

That's why I stay true to my opinion and when Flip gets fired and Ted either fires Ernie or Ernie convinces Ted to give him another chance to rebuild and trade AB, JM, Kirk, NY, Lewis no one will admit I was right then either...

But enjoy your all of the losing and keep up your support because most of the fans on here realize that this team is nothing but a fraud like the last one Ernie built.
Posted by: bulletsfan78

Ahh, I love the smell of a persecution complex in the morning...the sense that only you could see the flaws in the team...only you had the one true vision....and no one else could see it.....

It's touching. No, really, it is. Incorrect and self-absorbed, maybe, but that's what we've come to expect.

You see, as an actual fan of the team, I can recognize the flaws but still root for their success. I don't have to fabricate flaws to justify my 'vision' of the team. I just look at what's there and assess it for what it is.

Opinions vary and you're as entitled to yours as anyone, but you shouldn't try so hard to manufacture issues. There are more than enough actual ones to bring up.

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Watching the MD game and Va Tech runs out to a 10-0 lead and if Ernie was the coach instead of calling a TO he would have waited for another 2 mins for the TV TO?

So instead of being down by 20 they are down by 4 why call a TO?

Posted by: bulletsfan78

Well, again, since as the Bucks were 'going out' to an 11 pt lead, Flip (who's the coach btw) called 3 TOs and had two built-in TOs, I guess Gary is seriously slacking.

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 9:32 PM | Report abuse

It has to be coaching at this point. You don't blow teams out in the beginning just to get beat because you have a sorry team. Our team has shown they're competative. Its up to Flip to keep our heads in the game and adjust to what the opponents adjust to. Even after timeouts the team can't come up with anything.

This is clearly on the coach. I like Flip but we need someone else now or after the season...it really doesn't matter much to me since we knew going into the year it would be a rebuilding season.

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 20, 2011 10:02 PM | Report abuse

It's touching. No, really, it is. Incorrect and self-absorbed, maybe, but that's what we've come to expect.

You see, as an actual fan of the team, I can recognize the flaws but still root for their success. I don't have to fabricate flaws to justify my 'vision' of the team. I just look at what's there and assess it for what it is.

Posted by: ts35 | January 20, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

When I talk about the Wizards it’s my opinion they don’t have the right guys in the right positions to compete for the gold (an NBA Championship).


Posted by: bulletsfan78 | October 26, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Was I Incorrect about the Wizards last year?

No...

It's great to be a fan and root for their success, but if I prefer to look at the team with a little bit of reality and when I see a team that has no shot at winning how can anyone root for their success?

I guess I should become a blind follower and walk through life without a clue, maybe I should just watch Fox news and join the Tea Party and get a lobotomy too?

Thinking the Wizards have a chance to be good under Flip or Ernie is like thinking Sarah Palin would be a good President?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 10:06 PM | Report abuse

"Thinking the Wizards have a chance to be good under Flip or Ernie is like thinking Sarah Palin would be a good President?
Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Putting a question mark at the end of every thought doesn't make you any less of a troll?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 20, 2011 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Part of being a "Fan" is rooting for their success whether you like the coach,players,gm or not. You're a hater..and a Troll

Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 20, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Part of being a "Fan" is rooting for their success whether you like the coach,players,gm or not. You're a hater..and a Troll


Posted by: Wizbullets88 | January 20, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Even if I believe they have no chance of succeeding?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Mike, great interview on the Lavar show today. I agree that the glass is half full with the Wizards, since the Gilbert trade.

It is tough to win the NBA, and the Wizards were playing .500 ball in their last 10 games. Since Flip has had a decent roster to work with there has been improvement.

Those that are clamoring for Flip to get fired, are not going to get their wish granted. Leonsis isn't going to fire Flip with 2.5 years left on an 18 million dollar contract. It doesn't make business sense, or basketball sense. We are not going to find a coach to turn this team around over night. Winning in the NBA is hard. Few people understand that.

Posted by: dominic10464 | January 20, 2011 10:39 PM | Report abuse

"Part of being a "Fan" is rooting for their success whether you like the coach,players,gm or not. You're a hater..and a Troll"

Geez, you're reminiscent of Palin with her 'real America' vs. fake America distinctions. Anyone who disagrees with you, apparently, is a 'hater' and a 'troll'. What makes your judgment any less hate, troll, etc-worthy?

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 20, 2011 10:41 PM | Report abuse

SammyT1,

There are always going to be people in life who have to resort to name calling when their opinion is challenged?

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/162016

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 11:16 PM | Report abuse

"You are defending Grunfeld using years-old, obsolete weaponry."Posted by: SammyT1

You're attacking Grunfeld using the centuries-old method of cherry-picking facts.

This may be why bf78 is so fond of you.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 12:00 AM | Report abuse

"What makes your judgment any less hate, troll, etc-worthy? Posted by: SammyT1"

Perhaps he hasn't spent the past 24 months toking up on Mass Skunk and Sour Diesel?

But that's just one theory, of course.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 12:05 AM | Report abuse

"You are defending Grunfeld using years-old, obsolete weaponry."Posted by: SammyT1

You're attacking Grunfeld using the centuries-old method of cherry-picking facts.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Grunfeld's total record as GM of the Washington Wizards: 253 - 361

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 20, 2011 8:54 PM | Report abuse

SammyT1,

Didn't you review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.

You're not allowed to use the Wizards record as part of your opinion...it's unfair to the Wizards disciples.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 21, 2011 12:15 AM | Report abuse

There are always going to be people in life who have to resort to name calling when their opinion is challenged?

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/162016

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh you mean like calling someone a blind follower, member of the Wizards staff, Flip apologist or whatever....because they don't share YOUR opinion? Oh okay.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 21, 2011 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Oh you mean like calling someone a blind follower, member of the Wizards staff, Flip apologist or whatever....because they don't share YOUR opinion? Oh okay.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 21, 2011 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Not exactly...I don't call people morons or idiots. That would be making a judgement on someones mental capabilities and since I don't know the person it would be impossible for me to make that type of assertion.

Now calling someone a blind follower, member of the Wizards staff, Flip apologist is based on their posts...I don't think anyone at Fox news would be offended if you called them right wing and I'm sure Jon Stewart wouldn't be offended if I said he had liberal views.

There is a difference between a personal attack and bantering...I don't take myself as serious as some do on here and have posted many times that we are talking about a stupid game where men get paid a ridiculous amount of money to do what they would be doing if they never made it into the NBA.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 21, 2011 1:29 AM | Report abuse

SDMDTSU,

Her's an example...

And you don't ever defend your moronic comments!


Posted by: rphilli721 | January 20, 2011 1:42 AM | Report abuse

Sure I do all of the time...

Here is your answer:

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 20, 2011 2:00 AM | Report abuse

I responded without saying his comments are moronic.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 21, 2011 1:33 AM | Report abuse

Was I Incorrect about the Wizards last year?

No...

No, you're just incorrect when you take the posture that you're the only one who sees the truth and everyone is against you. Lots of folks had the opinion that the Wizards were going to be terrible last year and most knew that even if they made the playoffs they weren't going far.

But beyond that, it's always amusing that whenever you start losing arguments based on facts -- like the 'timeout' argument -- you revert to "but I was right about last year".

It's great to be a fan and root for their success, but if I prefer to look at the team with a little bit of reality and when I see a team that has no shot at winning how can anyone root for their success?

That'd be great, if you'd just check in a bit more often on the reality part when you critique specific game issues. Beyond that, why root for failure?

I guess I should become a blind follower and walk through life without a clue, maybe I should just watch Fox news and join the Tea Party and get a lobotomy too?

This is my favorite part. Where you mock Sarah Palin and Fox News and yet use their exact tactics. Anyone who disagrees with you is a) persecuting you and b) is a puppet (of the liberal media or the Wizards PR staff). And then use isolated, out-of-context clips and manufactured issues to make your case. You chastise people for calling you names and then call them names. Awesome! Congrats! You are the Sarah Palin / Fox News of these boards!

Thinking the Wizards have a chance to be good under Flip or Ernie is like thinking Sarah Palin would be a good President?
Posted by: bulletsfan78

See? Exactly what I mean. A poor, poor analogy, reaching way out on a limb to try to make a point. In that both Flip and Ernie came to their jobs with appropriate qualifications and years of reasonable success other places. Depending on your political stripe you could have said either is more like Dubya or Jimmy Carter.

Posted by: ts35 | January 21, 2011 1:48 AM | Report abuse

Now calling someone a blind follower, member of the Wizards staff, Flip apologist is based on their posts...I don't think anyone at Fox news would be offended if you called them right wing
Posted by: bulletsfan78

Classic Fox News twisting. Well done!

Posted by: ts35 | January 21, 2011 1:55 AM | Report abuse

Can we just jump to the part where you start calling them socialists?

Posted by: ts35 | January 21, 2011 1:56 AM | Report abuse

No, you're just incorrect when you take the posture that you're the only one who sees the truth and everyone is against you.

I've never said I was the only one I remember other people agreeing with me but I also remember people writing my opinions were based on hate...I just found it funny that when what I said (I can't write for anyone else) came true they said it was all hindsight

But beyond that, it's always amusing that whenever you start losing arguments based on facts -- like the 'timeout' argument -- you revert to "but I was right about last year".

http://www.nba.com/games/20110119/WASMIL/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000617#nbaGIboxscore

Take a look at the play by play it shows the Wizards took a TO at the 5:22 mark in the 3rd quarter and the score was Mil 64-60 the next TO the Wizards took was at the 8:33 mark in the 4th quarter and the score was Mil 81-70.

I asked a question because other people made posts that it was during that time spand that the Wizards were falling apart

Beyond that, why root for failure?

I don't prescribe to the notion that if a fan disagrees with the team that means he's rooting for faliure.

I'm a Texas Ranger/Washington Senator fan and for years I posted on their web site that I couldn't wait till Tom Hicks sold the team and once they did they made it to the World Series. I went to a few games because I watched that team here before Bob Short moved them.

This is my favorite part. Where you mock Sarah Palin and Fox News and yet use their exact tactics. Anyone who disagrees with you is a) persecuting you and b) is a puppet (of the liberal media or the Wizards PR staff).

Satire I make fun of both sides because they both believe they are right and I don't ever remeber saying people were persecuting me...I think this whole blog is a joke it's clear the owner, Gm, coach and/or players could care less what we think unless the fans quit going to the games and it hits them where it matters their bank accounts.

Thinking the Wizards have a chance to be good under Flip or Ernie is like thinking Sarah Palin would be a good President?
Posted by: bulletsfan78

See? Exactly what I mean. A poor, poor analogy, reaching way out on a limb to try to make a point. In that both Flip and Ernie came to their jobs with appropriate qualifications and years of reasonable success other places.

and as I stated what have they done for the Wizards...both losing records

George W. did a good job as the Texas Governor so does that mean I can't have the opinion that he did a horrible job as President...look at the economy, jobs, foreclousers and the war in Iraq...

I don't ever recall lumping you into with some others on here...Yes, do I call a few out at times but, that's because they pick on other people that post on here who may not have the same command of the english language and/or the basketball knowledge they have.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 21, 2011 2:59 AM | Report abuse

"You're attacking Grunfeld using the centuries-old method of cherry-picking facts.
Posted by: Samson151
"Grunfeld's total record as GM of the Washington Wizards: 253 - 361
Posted by: SammyT1"

There ya go -- that's a big fat maraschino right there.

Repeat it a few hundred thousand times in response to a wide range of unrelated questions and you'll turn be bf78.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 5:18 AM | Report abuse

"I don't ever recall lumping you into with some others on here.." Posted by:bulletsfan78"

One of many, many things not recalled...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 5:20 AM | Report abuse

"Now calling someone a blind follower, member of the Wizards staff, Flip apologist is based on their posts..Posted by: bulletsfan78"

It's an argument ad hominem, a technique employed by someone who is otherwise unable to prevail on other grounds. One common example is a claim that the opponent is biased: "of course he believes black people are discriminated against -- after all, he's black." Intent is to put the opponent in a position of defending himself, and unable to pursue his own argument.

Ad hominem arguments, ironically, often describe the person making them -- accusations of bias or partisanship, for instance, may be made by persons who are themselves obviously guilty of both. The goal is to move the argument away from a level playing field and onto a plane where the intrinsic weaknesses of one position are less exposed.

The logical fallacy underlying most ad hominem reasoning is that the supposed 'negative' traits of the opponent may have little or nothing to do with the merits of the argument itself. Example: "Mike lost his health insurance. That's the real reason he supports Obamacare."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 5:41 AM | Report abuse

Ad hominem arguments are not always fallacious, of course; there are instances where the traits associated with one party are verifiable and clearly associated with the issues being debated. Example: 'Tim cannot be relied on for an 'objective' opinion on cannabis use because he's used it every day for five years." But for the most part, ad hominem reasoning is false.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 5:47 AM | Report abuse

"You're attacking Grunfeld using the centuries-old method of cherry-picking facts.
Posted by: Samson151
"Grunfeld's total record as GM of the Washington Wizards: 253 - 361
Posted by: SammyT1"

"There ya go -- that's a big fat maraschino right there. Repeat it a few hundred thousand times in response to a wide range of unrelated questions and you'll turn be bf78."

An 7.5-year win-loss record is not a cherry, not even a 'big' or 'fat' one soaked in sugar. It's the whole farm. What better, less-biased metric of a GM's success or failure is there? Your opinion? Instead of throwing around insults give us some 'facts', cherry-picked or otherwise, that support your pro-Grunfeld thesis.

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 21, 2011 7:45 AM | Report abuse

How about only one comment per day and a stricter limit on character length WP!? The article was about Lewis, who will either be traded or bought out in the next year --point is if the Wiz have made a 20 yr. old their captain they are building for the long term. They can't go any worse than 0-20 if they start using their other rookie 1st round picks and put Lewis on DL. Would also shop/DL Heinrich and audition some young guards. Time for TL & EG to face reality & change direction.

Posted by: trnasell | January 21, 2011 9:27 AM | Report abuse

"An 7.5-year win-loss record is not a cherry, not even a 'big' or 'fat' one soaked in sugar. It's the whole farm. What better, less-biased metric of a GM's success or failure is there? Your opinion? Instead of throwing around insults give us some 'facts', cherry-picked or otherwise, that support your pro-Grunfeld thesis.Posted by: SammyT1"

You missed the point. Cherry-picking is a method of fallacious reasoning that involves focusing on a few facts that seem to support your thesis while ignoring others that don't. All I did was point out some facts about the team during Grunfeld's tenure that you had not included in your argument. You replied with one fact -- overall won-loss record -- thus repeating the error.

I'm not actually arguing for or against Grunfeld, just pointing out the flaws in your argument. When you write this "What better, less-biased metric of a GM's success or failure is there?", you acknowledge that there are in fact other metrics to consider, and that you have decided to value only one of them.

As fas as my opinion, it counts exactly as much as yours, no more, but also no less.

"...give us some 'facts', cherry-picked or otherwise, that support your pro-Grunfeld thesis." posted by SammyT1

Why would I repeat your mistake? It's difficult if not impossible to arrive at a correct conclusion that way.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 9:31 AM | Report abuse

It's an argument ad hominem, a technique employed by someone who is otherwise unable to prevail on other grounds. One common example is a claim that the opponent is biased:

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 5:41 AM | Report abuse

Of course I'm biased towards my own opinion...that's why it's my opinion.

That's all these post are...our opinions...

When I first came on here and stated that I thought Abe ran the organization on a profit before all else mentality there were some people how would call me names which is fine they are entitled to their own opinion...I never resorted to calling them names but I took notice of the people who defend the organization without any regards to the facts when they are presented...like a person win loss record.

Show me one post where I included ts35 to the list of the people I believe are blind follower, member of the Wizards staff (only you) or a Flip apologist?

I'll wait...

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 21, 2011 9:42 AM | Report abuse

One way of improving the wizards is to trade AB, I would be thrilled if we could trade Blatche for Love but that wont happen till pigs can fly. Blatche is oblivious to the idea of team basketball, we wonder why the wizards blow games late in the 4th quarter it's because Blatche becomes a black hole and decides he's gonna jack up jumpers that are just inside the three pointer which is by far the worst shot to take. If Wall wants to get fined for making frowny faces then why not fine Blatche for every stupid shot he takes.

Posted by: newschoolbullets | January 21, 2011 9:59 AM | Report abuse

"Of course I'm biased towards my own opinion...that's why it's my opinion.Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Not the issue. Issue is that you repeatedly accuse others of being biased in favor of Flip. That's an ad hominem argument. You could as easily be accused of being hopelessly biased against Flip.

"That's all these posts are... our opinions." Posted by: bulletsfan78"

"I never resorted to calling them names..."

Sure you did. That's what 'apologist' is -- name-calling. It's a way of putting down someone else's position without actually having to prove them wrong. I suspect you can't actually prove them wrong, so that's why you call them names.

"Show me one post where I included ts35 to the list of the people I believe are blind follower, member of the Wizards staff (only you) or a Flip apologist?" Posted by: bulletsfan78"

You just called me a name. In other words, made an ad hominem remark.

That's your prerogative, of course, but why would anybody pay attention to it?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

It's becoming hard to find the comments that deal with the article in this mess.

Why don't you guys just cut back on the non-topic comments for a while?

Posted by: nmik | January 21, 2011 10:29 AM | Report abuse

i think this is one of the best posts nmik
was about 5 posts above yours, where the guy actually tells the poster he has no opinion about the issue that they're arguing about, rather that he's arguing with him because his statement is incomplete.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 21, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"It's becoming hard to find the comments that deal with the article in this mess.
Posted by: nmik"

Here you go. From an Orlando blog --

"Like Rashard Lewis, Ryan Anderson has the ability to play the “stretch four” position, a unique weapon the Orlando Magic were known for when Lewis was in town. Both players are elite three-point shooters, a rare trait in a power forward. Because of this, many fans and observers have compared the two players, saying Anderson can be the new Rashard Lewis."

"Magic coach Stan Van Gundy doesn’t buy it. Three-point shooting is about the only similarity between the two players, Van Gundy said."

“They’re just different as players,” Van Gundy said. “Rashard is certainly quicker than Ryan. The only similarity is they both shoot the three. Other than that they’re really different. Rashard’s quicker, Ryan’s bigger, heavier… Ryan’s a better rebounder than Rashard. Rashard’s a little more versatile offensively, although Ryan can put the ball on the floor and go down into the post.”

"The topic comes up because of Anderson’s recent stellar play. Anderson led the Magic with 20 points in Wednesday night’s victory over the Sixers, the first time in his Magic career he’s led the team in scoring."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I know Orlando is playing better since the trade, but it's hard to imagine them winning a title this season. I thought they were in a better position last year, until they got sandbagged by the Celts after sweeping Charlotte and Atlanta.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 21, 2011 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"When I first came on here and stated that I thought Abe ran the organization on a profit before all else mentality there were some people how would call me names which is fine they are entitled to their own opinion...I never resorted to calling them names but I took notice of the people who defend the organization without any regards to the facts when they are presented...like a person win loss record."

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 21, 2011 9:42 AM

Okay, this is hilarious.

You didn't just say "Abe ran the organization on a profit before all else mentality." You made an annoying (and, with your frequent unnecessary references to his faith, tasteless and offensive) habit of (wait for it) calling him names ("Cheap Abe" just being the tip of the iceberg). And now you have the chutzpah (see what I did there?) to complain about people calling you names in reference to things you said about Pollin? Oh please. That's rich.

As you reap. . . .

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 21, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

people got sensitive about calling abe cheap because of his faith. but we were calling him Cheap Abe cuz we though he was cheap in certain areas where other owners weren't as tight with the wallet (training staff, facilities and team transportation have been issues since before WizInsider existed).Folks wanted to use perceived antisemitism to shoot down valid criticisms of ownership.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 21, 2011 2:54 PM | Report abuse

funny how you can't call a jewish person cheap without being offensive, but folks can call AB lazy without thinking twice.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 21, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

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