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Posted at 8:05 AM ET, 01/ 6/2011

Fourth-quarter meltdown leads to 17th straight road loss

By Gene Wang
Morning brew

Again the Wizards had a lead, albeit by the slimmest of margins, in the fourth quarter on the road, and again, it didn't matter. Washington still is winless away from home after briefly taking a one-point lead with just under nine minutes to play and then collapsing the rest of the way last night in a 109-97 loss at Wells Fargo Center.

The locker room after the game, however, was not as somber as you might think after the Wizards' 17th straight road loss to open the season. That's 12 short of tying the NBA record, and Washington remains the only team without a road victory.

"You're good. It's a part of your job," Wall said when asked if he was sick of answering questions about the road losing streak. "And it's a part of our job to get a win on the road. It's like, what, the ninth game that we had won?"

There certainly have been plenty of missed chances this season. Most recently, the Wizards held a 10-point lead against the Houston Rockets on the road before losing, 100-93. Washington hasn't won a road game since April 9, 2010, when it beat, of all teams, the Boston Celtics, 106-96.

There were some positives to come out of the loss to Philadelphia, most notably Wall's 18 points and game-high 14 assists with just one turnover. Nick Young led the Wizards with 21 points, and forward Rashard Lewis finished with 18 points and 10 rebounds, although he had five turnovers.

Ultimately, though, another fourth-quarter meltdown combined with stellar guard play by the Sixers conspired to hand the Wizards their third straight loss and sixth in seven games. Washington allowed Philadelphia to make 10 of 14 shots in the final period, and guards Jrue Holiday and Lou Williams each scored a game-high 26 points.

"We played hard together," Young said. "We played down to the last drop I think. We just couldn't make the shots or couldn't get into our offense, and they fed off that."

Young's three-pointer with 8 minutes 58 seconds to play gave Washington an 81-80 lead, but Williams answered with a three-point basket followed by a three-point play from Holiday. The duo combined to make 17 of 24 shots and 16 of 20 from the foul line.

The Wizards also played much of the game without swingman Josh Howard, who aggravated his left knee after playing 12 minutes. Howard said after the game his knee was still a bit sore and that he would see how it felt today before deciding whether he would be able to play tomorrow night against New Jersey.

"Guys just kept playing hard, but we're still kind of making the same mistakes to get in a hole," said Howard, who went 0 for 3.

FROM THE POST
The game story from today's newspaper and the postgame wrap-up.

It's official: JaVale McGee will participate in the NBA's slam dunk contest.

DC Sports Bog looks into the mystery surrounding Wes Unseld's season tickets.

The Bog also reports on "Nightline's" story about the Dougie, which featured a clip of John Wall.

The Cleveland Cavaliers reportedly offered a job to a homeless man with a golden voice who has become a YouTube sensation (The Early Lead).

At Box Seats, a blog by and for the area's sports fans, Kevin Broom says the Wizards should trade Andray Blatche and Lee Friedman says it could always be worse.

AROUND THE WEB
Bullets Forever's Mike Prada says McGee competing in the slam dunk contest is a good thing.

Maybe Andray Blatche needs a hug -- and a haircut (Kyle Weidie, Truth About It).

To Blatche or not to Blatche? That is the question posed by Rashad Mobley (DCist).

Gilbert Arenas elaborates on his recent claim to be a great white shooter (Orlando Sentinel).

In light of the most recent bourre altercation, Ken Berger of CBSSports.com says it's time to fold on the NBA's gambling subculture.

Elsewhere at CBSSports.com, NBA Facts and Rumors offers alternative games to occupy players' time during charter flights.

By Gene Wang  | January 6, 2011; 8:05 AM ET
Categories:  Morning brew  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: John Wall continues to excel against 76ers
Next: Andray Blatche defends his game to Mike Wise

Comments

does slip not realize that everytime he makes mcgee ride the bench in the 4th quarter.....we LOSE in the 4th quarter. teams go to the basket alot easier, his presence alters shots, even tho it doesent show up on the stat sheet. Flip NEEDS TO GO before this team turns around. ernie talks about stale....flips coaching is stale. we need a change ASAP.

Posted by: skinsfan09 | January 6, 2011 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Any team who would like to take KH and AB should be appricated.a young talent, a 1st round pick and a back up PG is what we need.

Posted by: gtefferra | January 6, 2011 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Although I long ago accepted that this season would be difficult, The Wiz have regressed from what they were at the end of last season. They lost a lot of games, but at least they were watchable.

After the trades and without Gilbert and Howard, this team was gritty and really hustled.

This year's version has no identity. They are poor defensively, poor offensively, poor rebounding, poor passing and poor shooting.

Much like the team Flip coached up at the start of the '09 season!

Posted by: bozomoeman | January 6, 2011 9:10 AM | Report abuse

GRUNFELD=DINOSAUR

Posted by: getjiggly2 | January 6, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I feel like I am watching "Groundhog Day" over and over again.

Poor shot selection, too many layups by the other team, and just plain bad defense, too many fouls.

It always looks like "Keystone Cops" out there. Run down, throw up a brick, and the other team gets a layup in return becasue of lazy defense.

At some point the Wizards are going to have to realize what they are doing isn't working and make a change. Again, Flips rotations are horrid and he might want to think about sitting Blatche at the end of close games like this. It's not just Blatche's fault but he really isn't helping when he throws up those 80 foot jumpers at the end of games.

The Wiz look "gassed" in the 4th all of the time, they might want to think about hiring a new conditioning coach while they are at it.

This just isn't working. Ok, they are a young team but as someone said above it looks like they are regressing.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | January 6, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Here we go again: the reason the Wiz lost is because Flip sat McGee in the 4th. Skinsfan09, did you even watch the effort that McGee put forth last night. The only spark I saw from him was when he was in search of his nightly highlight as he dribbled the length of the floor even though he was flanked by Wall. Not only that, but I seem to recall that he got considerable 4th quarter minutes (I'm in need of a good website for NBA game stats if anyone can recommend).

Their 4th quarter deficiency is simple. The Wiz have no ability to get easy buckets for two reasons: they have absolutely no inside presence, and without defensive stops, they can't get out in transition. And the reason why they can't get defensive stops is because their bigs can't handle their defensive responsibilities. They are terrible, and I have no clue why Blatche is getting the minutes he's getting. He hasn't earned them, and he certainly hasn't earned the right to shoot 5-8 20 foot jumpers/game.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | January 6, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

@ZardsFan1

mcgee barely played in the 4th, and hes better in the lineup than playing blatche at the 5!!! anyone can take in layups with blatche at center and r lewis at the 4. mcgee needs to be in there, let him mature. and overall flips rotations are horrible. im sure the team doesent beleive in him. we need a new coach.

Posted by: skinsfan09 | January 6, 2011 9:48 AM | Report abuse

"im sure the team doesent beleive in him. we need a new coach.Posted by: skinsfan09"

Let me guess: you heard on the radio.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"They are poor defensively, poor offensively, poor rebounding, poor passing and poor shooting."

Odd, because though they've been all those things at various points during the season, tonight they weren't.

FG%: 48.8%
FGs: Wiz 40, Phila 38
3pt%: 41.7%
Rebounds: Wiz 35, Phila 40
Assists: Wiz 26, Phila 20
Steals: Wiz 5, Phila 6
Blocks: Wiz 2, Phila 1
TOs: Wiz 12, Phila 12

The Wiz did pick up 27 fouls to Philly's 17, and shot 18 FTs to their 38.


Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

How many minutes did McGee play in the 4th?

I don't get Flip's rotations either. I don't know how Armstrong can be the first guy off the bench all season long, and then not even play when the bigs are clearly not getting it done on the Defensive end. It appears to me that he is simply grasping and doesn't have a plan.

It this point, Lewis is clearly their best post player. I've been very impressed with this part of his game, even when he's matched up against more phyiscal players.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | January 6, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Fourth-quarter meltdown leads to 17th straight road loss

Flip Saunders said. "It's something we keep on talking about. And it hurt, no question, not having Kirk tonight, because he has a tendency to settle us down a little bit."

I guess Kirk wasn't able to play in the first 16 games?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 6, 2011 10:09 AM | Report abuse

"im sure the team doesent beleive in him. we need a new coach.Posted by: skinsfan09"

Let me guess: you heard on the radio.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I'm guessing skinsfan09 has heard it from everyone and everywhere but on here and only from who...you and kal?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 6, 2011 10:13 AM | Report abuse

"im sure the team doesent beleive in him. we need a new coach.Posted by: skinsfan09"

Let me guess: you heard on the radio.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 9:58 AM
---------------------------------

no i dint hear that on the radio. i just see it watching the team, they play like there expected to lose. flip post game comments are always the same, saying the team lost blah blah. but his coaching is horrible playing zone d at the end, no centers in the game. i wanna see seraphin play, but how does armstrong not even play. flips rotaions are just dumb. one night seraphin will start then hes inactive 10 games, then plays ahead of armstrong?....flip just makes u scratch ur head.

Posted by: skinsfan09 | January 6, 2011 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, but if Peter Vescey reported the sky was blue, I'd look twice myself, then buy a Pantone color guide to check the hue against. The amount of slant/spin in that piece is pretty blatant. He's got an axe to grind and he's grinding it hard. The events he reports may be more or less fact based, but the hows and whys he presents are pure agenda.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 4, 2011 12:54 PM |

Case in point:

"Unseld repeatedly said that there is no story here, no ill will, and no stripping."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2011/01/wes_unseld_peter_vecsey_and_th.html

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Nick's ability to hit shots is really something special to watch, so at least there was that last night.

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2011 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Our losses on the road seem to follow a pattern where the Wiz look good until about midway through the fourth quarter when they fall completely apart.

Part of the problem may be because, for some reason I can't understand, JaVale McGee is always riding the pines at the end of games when we're on the road. The resulting lack of defense and rebounds is a great boon to our opponents, who thrive on baseline drives that McGee would normally swat away.

We tend to thrive when McGee's in the games, even when he's looking clumsy and taking stupid shots.

Posted by: FergusonFoont | January 6, 2011 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"no i dint hear that on the radio..."posted by skinsfan09

Just a reference to Larry's posts about radio sports talk...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 10:36 AM | Report abuse

The resulting lack of defense and rebounds is a great boon to our opponents, who thrive on baseline drives that McGee would normally swat away.

You're forgetting it's Javale's fault that opposing guards always kill us. Of course, they killed us with him on the bench last night, so it must have been some other Bigs fault. All we know for sure is it can't have anything do to with how our guards play defense, at least based on Flip's comments.

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2011 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"Flip Saunders said. "It's something we keep on talking about. And it hurt, no question, not having Kirk tonight, because he has a tendency to settle us down a little bit."
I guess Kirk wasn't able to play in the first 16 games?Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Just wondering: isn't the Flip quote from a different game?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 10:44 AM | Report abuse

"Jeff Green was a number 8 pick -- but your point holds. OKC is the model that Ted chose, and I don't know why he'd change it a year in to the rebuild. Just hoping our luck holds and we get a top five pick again. Looking for a big man, is my guess, but the smart move is usually BPA...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 5, 2011 6:32 PM | Report abuse "

It's silly of Teddy to want to build his team based on a team that hasn't won anything.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 5, 2011 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Considering that they're young with PLENTY of cap space and draft picks. They're still on the way up. Who would be a better model to build after?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 5, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

And none of that guarantees you anything.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 5, 2011 11:09 PM | Report abuse

And what does guarantee you something? I'm sure we would all love to know.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 6, 2011 7:39 AM | Report abuse


I'd still like an answer to that 88...I think we would all like a guaranteed championship

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 6, 2011 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"You're forgetting it's Javale's fault that opposing guards always kill us."

Did Flip mention Javale in his remarks? I thought he was talking about the defense in the paint.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Not only that, but I seem to recall that he got considerable 4th quarter minutes (I'm in need of a good website for NBA game stats if anyone can recommend).

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | January 6, 2011 9:43 AM

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nba+stats

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Deshawn Stevenson update:


http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4673098/deshawn-stevensons-a-model-maverick

Thanks to Grundlefeld for trading away the only defender he ever signed.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Coach Lionel Hollins has banned gambling on team flight's after Tony Allen and OJ Mayo had to be seperated, the real question is why the League would allow gambling in the first place.

Posted by: dargregmag | January 6, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Deshawn Stevenson update:


http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4673098/deshawn-stevensons-a-model-maverick

Thanks to Grundlefeld for trading away the only defender he ever signed.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse


now THAT is hilarious...LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 6, 2011 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Of course I know how to google (nba+stats), but surely there is a site that provides a better breakdown than a box score and play by play.

It looks like McGee played about 2 minutes in the 4th. He entered with the Wiz trailing by 3 and left with them trailing by 5.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | January 6, 2011 11:50 AM | Report abuse

but surely there is a site that provides a better breakdown than a box score and play by play

This is my favorite site.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 6, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"This is my favorite site.
Posted by: djnnnou"

It's a very good site, although those color charts can give me a headache...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Coach Lionel Hollins has banned gambling on team flight's after Tony Allen and OJ Mayo had to be seperated, the real question is why the League would allow gambling in the first place.

Posted by: dargregmag

That question was the biggest thing that was not addressed in the whole Gilbert Arenas and Crittenton incident. When there is no structure anything goes.

Posted by: spades72 | January 6, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"That question was the biggest thing that was not addressed in the whole Gilbert Arenas and Crittenton incident. When there is no structure anything goes.Posted by: spades72"

I thought I remembered the Wiz banning gambling on their team flights. Anybody know for sure?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Looks like a classic EG move. Two bigs under 26 and a 30 yr old wing for an injured 3o yr old 3 man and a 30 yr old 2 with no handle.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Looks like a classic EG move.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 1:32 PM

^if only... a classic EG move would be to deal Rashard Lewis to clear cap room, only to use up cap room to sign more washed-up former lottery picks and FAs you've never heard of.

have u not seen how well Deshawn "Model Maverick" Stevenson has been playing?? bes reckonize.

For years we were known as a soft team,” Terry said. “But you look at this kid and instantly, without even seeing him touch a basketball or get on the court, he’s tough. You ain’t messing with him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4673098/deshawn-stevensons-a-model-maverick

And anyways, the Wiz wouldn't only do it for the players but for the expiring contracts + moving AB.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I was just wondering how the other Top 10 draft picks were doing to date:

Evan Turner PH: 33 games, 12 starts, 24.7 min, 6.8 pts, 4.5 rbs, 1.8 assts

D. Favors NJ: 31 games, 1 start, 18.4 min, 6.4 pts, 5.1 rbs, .5 blks

Wes Johnson MIN: 36 games, 32 starts, 28.5 min, 9.4 points, 3 rbs, 2.1 assts

D. Cousins SAC: 32games, 17 starts, 25.8min, 12.5 pts, 7.7 rbs, 1.6 assts, 0.6 blks
E. Udoh GSW: 12 games, 0 starts, 13.7 min, 2.9 pts, 2.5 rbs, 1.2 blks

G. Monroe DET: 33 games, 3 starts, 19.8 min, 5.1 pts. 5.2 rbs, 0.4blks

A. Aminu LAC: 34game, 14 starts, 17.9min, 3.7rbds, 0.2blks

G. Hayward IND: 30games, 6 starts, 11.7 min, 3.3 pts, 1.7 rbs, 0.5assts

P. George UTA: 11 games, 0 starts, 14.7 min, 5.2 pts, 2.7 rbs, 1.3 assts

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Who would have ever thought that this board would contain people WANTING DeShawn back? LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 6, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Kirk Fantastic was 0-5 with 2TOs and 0assts in the 4thQ last night. Rashard was 0-1 with 1TO. What was that about vet presence being critical down the stretch?

Blatche had some of his laziest defensive plays of the season last night, yet played 40mins while Booker got 52secs of burn. Is Javale the only guy who gets benched for mistakes or what?

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

DSteves is ballin! Folks who were saying his bad back was the issue must have been correct....if you are out there Deshawn, sorry for all the DeBrick talk though you were shooting 12% here

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

It was partly his back, but it was also the fact that Arenas was out and Butler was playing subpar ball. His role is to play off of the stars. Without stars (or stars who aren't playing well) he is of very limited value.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I thought I remembered the Wiz banning gambling on their team flights. Anybody know for sure?

Posted by: Samson151

That might well be the case but I was talking in terms of a league policy. If back room high stakes cards games are illegal why is it the NBA is condoning gambling amongst its players?

Posted by: spades72 | January 6, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

^ he's playing pretty well with Caron and Dirk out

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Point being, bring him back here and he's likely to start sucking again.

That said, I'd do that deal just for the cap space, as long as Dallas throws in a 1st round pick. I'd also try to get Barea.

Can't see any reason why Dallas would do it, though.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Who would have ever thought that this board would contain people WANTING DeShawn back? LOL

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 6, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

or that i would agree with you unequivocally. You look at DSteve and you see Poser, not tough guy. I don't buy a lot of the stuff folks say about my generation and my younger "brothers", but covering your body in tatts is not a sign of toughness. A lot of these inked up NBA stars wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight. You see it whenever a "beef" breaks out on the court, ususally a lot of backing up and "sissy-swinging". i'd rather watch DS play ball before i labeled him a tough guy. I mean his game isn't soft, but that's because he doesn't really have a "game".

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

"he's playing pretty well with Caron and Dirk out"

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 3:26 PM

Still got JKIdd running the show. Plus, the overall talent level of Dallas is much higher than DC, so he still doesn't have to do as much. And it's only been a few games so far that both guys have been out. And Dirk will be back.

Point being,

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Point being that the situation in Dallas doesn't parallel/translate to anything that applies to the Wizards.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

i would have loved to see the recent Mavs@Cavs game where dsteves came up clutch...though maybe now they like him for all the smack he had with lebron

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2011 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Looks like H is headed to the D-league

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 6, 2011 3:33 PM | Report abuse

speaking of trades...recently looking like JHoward's knee isnt ready for takers

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2011 3:34 PM | Report abuse

You look at DSteve and you see Poser, not tough guy. I don't buy a lot of the stuff folks say about my generation and my younger "brothers", but covering your body in tatts is not a sign of toughness. A lot of these inked up NBA stars wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight. You see it whenever a "beef" breaks out on the court, ususally a lot of backing up and "sissy-swinging". i'd rather watch DS play ball before i labeled him a tough guy.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 3:29 PM

WOW. If you'd like to see him play then watch a Mavs game.

Nihil ad rem. You're also starting to show your age. 90% of the league is inked up nowadays.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

And I love how Jason Terry, the bball playing Oompa-Loompa, calls Stevenson a "kid."

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 3:43 PM | Report abuse

^ glad you caught that. pretty hilarious.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 3:46 PM | Report abuse

FIRE FLIP PLEASE!! GET RID OF SAM CASSELL WHO JUST TALKS TO OPPOSING PLAYERS ALL GAME!! MAKE THIS TRADE ASAP!! http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2eyvpj3

Posted by: CantWait90 | January 6, 2011 3:48 PM | Report abuse

GIVES US ADDED DEFENSE AND KNOCKDOWN 3 PT SHOOTERS IN GIBSON & PARKER. JUST IMAGINE THE STARTING LINEUP OF:
WALL
YOUNG
LEWIS
HICKSON
MCGEE

THEN THE SCORING/DEFENSIVE ROATION PUNCH OFF THE BENCH:
HINRICH
GIBSON
HOWARD/PARKER
BOOKER
ARMSTRONG

Posted by: CantWait90 | January 6, 2011 3:56 PM | Report abuse

gibson a lil beeitch

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Popcornmachine.com. Yes, that is the site that I was trying to remember. Thanks, djnnnou.

Now, can you or anyone else explain to me the meaining of the 2 numbers in each bar?

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | January 6, 2011 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld has been here for seven years. He's now leading the Wizards to their third 50 loss season in a row in seven years. He fired the coach who led the Wizards to four postseasons in a row, and the Wizards haven't sniffed the playoffs since. He also used last year's number five pick to rent two players for a year, and then sold the second round pick for cash when DeJuan Blair was sitting there, while being quoted as saying he didn't think there was anyone in the draft who could help the Wizards right away. How does this guy keep his job? Grunfeld's best talent seems to be his ability to get a complete pass from the local sports media regarding his failures. Grunfeld needs to be fired and he needs to take Flip Saunders with him.

Posted by: sonny2 | January 6, 2011 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Now, can you or anyone else explain to me the meaining of the 2 numbers in each bar?

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | January 6, 2011 4:03 PM

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=help+site%3Apopcornmachine.net+

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 4:09 PM | Report abuse

"Is Javale the only guy who gets benched for mistakes or what?Posted by: divi3"

Was McGee benched for mistakes?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 4:35 PM | Report abuse

"Nihil ad rem. You're also starting to show your age. 90% of the league is inked up nowadays.Posted by: prescrunk"

Well, like they say on the corner, de gustibus non est disputandam.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

"That might well be the case but I was talking in terms of a league policy. If back room high stakes cards games are illegal why is it the NBA is condoning gambling amongst its players?Posted by: spades72"

I've heard being 35000 feet in the air has something to do with it. But I can't verify that. I'm not sure how the NBA would enforce that, since the planes are chartered or belong to the teams. I doubt it's in anybody's contract. Maybe the teams have to ban it.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 4:43 PM | Report abuse

But gambling in the locker room, that should be easy to prohibit.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

That said, I'd do that deal just for the cap space, as long as Dallas throws in a 1st round pick. I'd also try to get Barea.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 3:28 PM

Kal IMO if you were GM we wouldn't be destined for a 3rd trip to Secaucus in as many years.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 4:48 PM | Report abuse

You're also starting to show your age. 90% of the league is inked up nowadays.

Posted by: prescrunk | January 6, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

you're silly, and i think you missed the point.then again maybe i didn't articulate it well. as for all the latin, I(ay) On't(Day) Peak(say) Ead(day) Anguages(Lay).

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld has been here for seven years. He's now leading the Wizards to their third 50 loss season in a row in seven years. He fired the coach who led the Wizards to four postseasons in a row, and the Wizards haven't sniffed the playoffs since. He also used last year's number five pick to rent two players for a year, and then sold the second round pick for cash when DeJuan Blair was sitting there, while being quoted as saying he didn't think there was anyone in the draft who could help the Wizards right away. How does this guy keep his job? Grunfeld's best talent seems to be his ability to get a complete pass from the local sports media regarding his failures. Grunfeld needs to be fired and he needs to take Flip Saunders with him.

Posted by: sonny2 | January 6, 2011 4:06 PM | Report abuse

for whatever reason, a lot of people still buy what he's selling. It seems like Ted is commited to staying the course, although i would have to think Eddie Jordan was shown the door for much less than the embarrassment the Wiz have become since his ouster. Regardless of what you wanna say Eddie had Gil and all his quirkiness in check and the team was winning (except that first month his last season here). He also didn't give much run to the young guys that some people really wanted to see play. It was kinda a mixed bag with EJ after Gil started getting hurt. He had that catch 22 of being good enough to keep a team in the playoffs, but viewed as not good enough to get them over the hump. Now we have a coach that can get us over the hump (I kid I kid) but shows no interest in building this team up.it's tough.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Blatch is reminding me of Ike Austin. Contract year, then a dudd after that.

Posted by: boblas | January 6, 2011 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Seraphin got a little playing time last night before garbage time. He's starting to look more fluid as he's getting an idea of what's going on. He's still a project, but he's progressing.

Blatche at center down the stretch is just a terrible idea. I'd play Lewis there first, and I don't think that's a good idea either. I feel like we're back in the days of small ball, when Haywood couldn't get off the bench in the 4th.

Hickson seems to have worked himself into the dog house in Cleveland. Our mutt(Blatche), for theirs (Hickson), might work. Ernie tried, and tried, to get Hickson in the Jamison deal last year, so he must like him. He's still a raw player in need of court time, but he's got some talent.

Blatche just seems lost out there right now, taking bad shots and going through the motions. Last spring he put up numbers when he was the only offensive option, he came into camp out of shape and he's regressed since. Where he's really out of condition is the neck up. He's developed a fat head...

Since the the little scrap between him and McGee and the Arenas/Lewis trade, Blatche looks like a guy that's trying to play his way out of town.

On another note, it will be interesting to see if Jordan Williams holds his own against Duke's frontline Sunday night. Williams is putting up numbers that a Maryland big hasn't seen since Joe Smith. To me he reminds me more of Buck Williams who went on to be a great NBA rebounder.

Jordan seems to have that knack of doing 80% of the work of grabbing a rebound before the ball is on the rim. I'd like to see him put in one more year before he comes out. He's just starting to mature physically, and he could use another summer to work on his game and the free throws.

Besides the Terps will have a better supporting cast by next year...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | January 6, 2011 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Jordan seems to have that knack of doing 80% of the work of grabbing a rebound before the ball is on the rim. I'd like to see him put in one more year before he comes out. He's just starting to mature physically, and he could use another summer to work on his game and the free throws.

Besides the Terps will have a better supporting cast by next year...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | January 6, 2011 5:16 PM | Report abuse

one more year and he could really become a different player. He's the opposite of Sean May. I can see him becoming a very solid pro 4.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 6, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

You look at DSteve and you see Poser, not tough guy.

Nah, he wasn't one of Nelly's "Warriors".

Posted by: djnnnou | January 6, 2011 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Now, can you or anyone else explain to me the meaining of the 2 numbers in each bar?

Points and HelpValue(Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl-TO).

Posted by: djnnnou | January 6, 2011 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Since only ComCast carries the Wizards, I cannot ge t to see them, so I am just followenb the4 Nets. when they get to play in b4rooklyn, I shall once again have a Home Team !
Afrer 20 + years as a Wash.Pro Basketball seasin ticket hiolder, I have had enough of the local Pro Basketball scene !


Posted by: HLSHAP | January 6, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Hollinger's All-Disappoinment Team.

Brendan Haywood, Dallas -- It's a tradition nearly as old as Texas itself: The Mavs overpaying for a second-tier center. Nonetheless, nobody could possibly have expected Haywood to perform this badly. On the first year of a six-year, $55 million deal that already looks nearly Dampierian in its excess, Haywood can barely get on the court after being beaten out by Tyson Chandler for the starting center gig.

Never the most motivated performer, his incentives have clearly plummeted with the big payday. Haywood has shown little of the defensive prowess that made him a valued starter in Washington, while on offense he has five assists the entire season. A decent foul shooter in a former life, he's a pathetic 17-of-61 from the stripe this season and an increasing target of Hack-a-Haywood tactics from opponents. Don't worry, Mavs fans -- just half a decade more and you're free.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 6, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm trying to figure out what the hell is the delay on trading Blatche if ANYONE is interested. Where are all the people that said Blatche was going to avg over 20ppg,etc,etc..

I said it before and I'm going to say it again. Blatche is a waste. Garabage player who is what he will be. He shoots entirely too many jump shots. He is a 2 guard trapped in a 6-11 frame.

He will never get it and the contract they gave him was a HUGE mistake.

Trade the bum already!!

Posted by: kevenjones | January 6, 2011 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Hollinger's All-Disappoinment Team.

Brendan Haywood, Dallas


Who didn't see that one coming? Seriously? I knew it was over when the Mavs traded for Tyson Chandler not even a full week after signing Haywood.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Yup & Haywood still waaaaay better than anything we got a the 5 spot.. What u think Kalo?

Posted by: kevenjones | January 6, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

I think that in the best season of his decade long career, Haywood was, at best, only marginally better than a young, raw, often clueless, still improving Javale McGee is now in his third year, playing fewer minutes and at a fraction of the cost. Neither one of them is more than a backup on a good team, but I'd take McGee over Haywood any day.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 6, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

I read that the Wizards are finally assigning H to the D League. I hope with playing time there, he ups his stock a lot.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | January 6, 2011 6:12 PM | Report abuse

"I knew it was over when the Mavs traded for Tyson Chandler not even a full week after signing Haywood.Posted by: kalo_rama"

Talk about a bad signing(Haywood's). They got him as something of a throw-in to the Butler deal, too. Guess they didn't know when to quit...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 6:34 PM | Report abuse

"I read that the Wizards are finally assigning H to the D League. I hope with playing time there, he ups his stock a lot.
Posted by: PostSubscriber"

I'm guessing not.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Who didn't see that one coming?

I could name some names, but I don't want to encourage them to post. I always thought Haywood was a big source for reporters which is why they never exposed him for being an a-hole.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 6, 2011 7:06 PM | Report abuse

We have a Statistical LEADER?!!
Seraphin is leading the league in Rookies in the fouls committed per 48mpg...
Hahahaha The Wiz spin doctors will say "Yeah- he is an enforcer". LMAO.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fouls.jsp?season=12010&league=00&conf=OVERALL&qualified=N&position=0&splitType=9&yearsExp=0&splitDD=All+Teams&pager.offset=0

Way to go Grunfeld-guys!Way to go.

Grunfeld is out of touch with the real world. Bad contracts, worse drafts and the worst organization in the NBA-ABA-NFL-MLB Euroleague and Chinese league. He and his teammates, T.Sheppard and M.Newton are responsible for this entire mess. Not Abe, Not Arenas, Not Blatche. It's on Ted to clean house--- NOW! before this goes any further.

sampson151 says: ouuuuhhhh "Odd, because though they've been all those things at various points during the season, tonight they weren't". uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhh haha

Posted by: member8 | January 6, 2011 7:53 PM | Report abuse

"You realize those two phenomena go together, right?

Just checking...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 5, 2011 11:35 PM | Report abuse "

Actually, they're not related. I hope you realize you're an idiot for taking my words out of context. If you had read the entire posting, you would have noted that I kept them separate...offense issues and defensive issue.

As I said, they settled for too many J's (lower shooting percentage), which resulted in 20 fewer FT attempts, and they had breakdowns in D, which resulted in too many PF's assessed against them. So no, they are not related. Just validating that you're an idiot.

------------------------------------------

"Well, it's easy to see why Les BouleS lost tonight...they shot 20 fewer FT's, but had 10 more PF's. All that means settling for too many J's and breakdowns with the D."

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310105020

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 5, 2011 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 6, 2011 8:21 PM | Report abuse

We have a Statistical LEADER?!! Posted by: member

Preseason stats.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 6, 2011 8:27 PM | Report abuse

We have a Statistical LEADER?!! Posted by: member

Preseason stats.

Posted by: djnnnou
-correct...
but for any player with more than 10 games played Seraphin is still the leader with 12+ fouls per game.. "a real enforcer"(say sampson151 spinpuppet)haha-- and he is first on the list.

Posted by: member8 | January 6, 2011 8:38 PM | Report abuse

"sampson151 says: ouuuuhhhh "Odd, because though they've been all those things at various points during the season, tonight they weren't". uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhh haha
Posted by: member8 "

Is there a stat for most sock puppets per 48 posts? I think we have a winner...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 8:44 PM | Report abuse

"Actually, they're not related. I hope you realize you're an idiot for taking my words out of context. If you had read the entire posting, you would have noted that I kept them separate...offense issues and defensive issue.As I said, they settled for too many J's (lower shooting percentage), which resulted in 20 fewer FT attempts, and they had breakdowns in D, which resulted in too many PF's assessed against them. So no, they are not related. Just validating that you're an idiot.posted by DC_MAN88"

Hmmm... this is possibly a complete waste of time, but...

when one team commits a lot more fouls, the other team is likely to shoot more free throws.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 8:49 PM | Report abuse

".....per 48 posts? I think we have a winner...

Posted by: Samson151
------ weak man, weak.

Posted by: member8 | January 6, 2011 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"I hope you realize you're an idiot...Just validating that you're an idiot."posted by DC_MAN88

Although I do appreciate the effort you put into invective. If I remember correctly, next comes the really hardcore stuff.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 8:53 PM | Report abuse

"------ weak man, weak.
Posted by: member8"

I'm sure you'll be providing us with better material for comment in the future.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Stats are facts not material.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fouls.jsp?league=00&season=22010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=

You on the other hand have shown on this site, through all the comments against your spin, to be immaterial. Give it a break, you're an amateur.

Posted by: member8 | January 6, 2011 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Wonder when Flip will ever admit they lost because he made the wrong moves. Interesting that he always blames the players for the losses. Being from Detroit, and seeing how the players got sick of him always blaming them for everything. THis is getting old.

Posted by: ptp09 | January 6, 2011 9:10 PM | Report abuse

"Stats are facts not material.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fouls.jsp?league=00&season=22010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=
You on the other hand have shown on this site, through all the comments against your spin, to be immaterial. Give it a break, you're an amateur.
Posted by: member8"

I checked the link. Mind if I ask what that chart proves?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

...I'd like to see an NBA stat that tracks a player's # of rebounds to foul shots he takes per game. The ratio should show how effective your big men are at attacking the basket, both offensively and defensively. It makes logical sense to me (which means not very much, I know) that the 4 and 5 players with the most rebounds per game should then be the ones also trying to score in the paint and typically racking up the the most foul shots. I bet an analysis of this ratio would show the Wiz are the absolute worst in the NBA, by far.

Posted by: oddjob1 | January 6, 2011 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I think that in a down cycle like the Wizards are in, you have to learn to enjoy the little things.

For instance, I find I'm quite eager to follow how H plays for the Maine Red Claws, or wherever he's going. Having him ride the pine added no value to the team.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | January 6, 2011 10:41 PM | Report abuse

H is going to the Dakota Wizards. Interesting, the Dakota Wizards only have 9 players on the roster now, and have only three coaches.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | January 6, 2011 11:07 PM | Report abuse

"Hmmm... this is possibly a complete waste of time, but...

when one team commits a lot more fouls, the other team is likely to shoot more free throws.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Although I do appreciate the effort you put into invective. If I remember correctly, next comes the really hardcore stuff.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 8:53 PM | Report abuse "

You're taking words out of context to confuse yourself. The point that you're missing is that it's clear to most, except for idiots like you, that Les BouleS are settling too much for J's and not making an effort to draw fouls by going inside. Also, they are not playing good D and committing stupid fouls instead. If you don't agree with that, then you're more of an idiot that I called you out to be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | January 6, 2011 11:59 PM | Report abuse

H is going to the Dakota Wizards. Interesting, the Dakota Wizards only have 9 players on the roster now, and have only three coaches.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | January 6, 2011 11:07 PM | Report abuse

PostSubscriber

The sad thing is...Ernie and Flip's Wizards would lose to the Dakota Wizards if the game was played in Bismarck, N.D.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 7, 2011 12:51 AM | Report abuse

"I knew it was over when the Mavs traded for Tyson Chandler not even a full week after signing Haywood.Posted by: kalo_rama"

Talk about a bad signing(Haywood's). They got him as something of a throw-in to the Butler deal, too. Guess they didn't know when to quit...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2011 6:34 PM

Yeah. It really is kind of sad that the Bullets isn't the kind of team to pay a good average NBA center 8 mil a year and then sign another center that puts him in a reserve roll.

On the other hand we rather pay Kirk Hinrich 9 mil a year and play him like he is a star in this league when at best he only a viable backup player.

But don't let that stop the Haywood bashers. We pay Hinrich 9mil a year and can't win a road game, but Dallas on the other hand is continually in the hunt for a West coast championship and spending money to boot.

Surely, we definitely can get the directions of these two franchises mixed up.

I'd think any smart person would see that it would have been better to have McGee with Haywood than Wall with Hinrich. I think I would have put my 8/9 mil on Haywood.

But pshaw, Ernie and Flip are smart guys???

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 7, 2011 7:10 AM | Report abuse

"The point that you're missing is that it's clear to most, except for idiots like you, that Les BouleS are settling too much for J's and not making an effort to draw fouls by going inside. Also, they are not playing good D and committing stupid fouls instead. If you don't agree with that, then you're more of an idiot that I called you out to be.
Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Sounds like I inadvertently hit a nerve, although I can't imagine what it might have been. But let's not escalate, OK? Discussion over.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 7:50 AM | Report abuse

"I'd think any smart person would see that it would have been better to have McGee with Haywood than Wall with Hinrich. I think I would have put my 8/9 mil on Haywood. But pshaw, Ernie and Flip are smart guys??? LarryInClintonMD.Posted by: LarryInClintonMD"

I'm not following this argument. If Haywood were here, he'd either be taking minutes from McGee or sulking about not getting them. You'd be griping about Javale not getting the minutes you think he deserves. The blog would be alive with excoriations of Ernie for having signed the big clod, and your voice would be loudest among them.

Haywood's contract was for 5 years and $42 millin. That's after he averaged 6 points and 6 boards in their playoff series against the Spurs. The deal was widely criticized around the NBA almost from the day it was signed. Now the team is offering Haywood around the league and unable to date to find a partner. According to ESPN, "There is no trade interest in Mavericks center Brendan Haywood...All of that money has been guaranteed to Haywood, who is shooting 26% from the FT line as he sulks about his backup role behind Tyson Chandler. It would be shocking if Dallas found a team willing to trade for him."

The deal was a mistake, like the Blatche extension. When team's make mistakes, they try to clean them up via trade. At least the smart ones do.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 8:06 AM | Report abuse

"For instance, I find I'm quite eager to follow how H plays for the Maine Red Claws, or wherever he's going."Posted by: PostSubscriber

Sounds like you'll get your wish. They only have 9 players, right? Fortunately he went to UConn so he's familiar with the cold weather. Like ND in January.

I saw the kid once in college and noticed him immediately. He defends the basket well. Not a natural athlete but he doesn't try to do things he can't. Could eventually have a future on the bench.

I don't know if anybody remembers the howling when Derrick Caracter was playing well in summer league -- why Ernie hadn't drafted him instead of Ndiaye. Reason probably is that H is seven feet tall, and late second round risks are best used on developmental big men.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 8:15 AM | Report abuse

There was one blogger here pretty adamant in admonishing all of us critics. Rebuilding he crys. Rebuilding! This is all par for the course and what you would expect from a franchise in rebuild mode.

Well, I ask, what pray tell, makes him so sure what we see from this current Team is par for course and right on target for a rebuilding team???

What makes him so sure that Flip Saunders is the right coach for the rebuilding mode?

What makes him so sure that the players are buying in to this rebuild mode?

What makes him so sure that the players are being developed properly and being given proper instructions for what shall lie ahead?

And what if Flip isn't the right guy and we spend another year or two with him and then we get another coach. Will we start over, another rebuild pray tell?

And what pray tell and I know BF78 will like this question, what has Ernie really built here so far?

Cause you see, when you blow the whole think up, you have to be careful, cause you could end up with nothing, especially with the wrong contractor, I mean coach.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 7, 2011 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Samson, that is the first I have seen, heard, or read anywhere that Haywood was being shopped. Maybe he is as you say.

However, everytime I tune in to the Mavs or check them on NBA-TV the coms are always giving the Mavs cudos for having the luxury of both centers, especially with the play of Chandler and then to have a good defensive center like Haywood off the bench to add quality minutes and very good play.

In fact just last night the combo was given very good reviews.

If the Mavs are truly shopping Haywood, it is a quietly kept secret as far as I can tell.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 7, 2011 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"Cause you see, when you blow the whole think up, you have to be careful, cause you could end up with nothing, especially with the wrong contractor, I mean coach."
LarryInClintonMD.posted by LarryInClintonMD

Well, when you blow the team up and start over, you take a risk. Success is going to require a degree of luck. Nobody likes to depend on luck and yet, repeatedly, all of us do.

But the one thing you need most is time. You know going into the exercise that a certain percentage of the fan base will be lost during the rebuild. You're hoping to retain as many as you reasonably can, and find new ones elsewhere (Ted says he's set his sights on NoVa.)

If you're an owner going into a rebuild, you know there will be mistakes along the way. The goal isn't to avoid them -- they're in the nature of a rebuild, and a GM who's afraid of making mistakes is a GM who's afraid to make decisions -- but to recognize and correct them. Rebuilds always include more mistakes than settled franchises, for obvious reasons.

One question is how much you pay attention to your fans. We're lucky that Ted has all that NHL experience with fans. A better perspective than Snyder or the Lerners did going into their tenure as owners. More like Jack Kent Cooke in that respect.

How do we know the team isn't being ruined as we watch? Best I can tell, it isn't. But I can't know for certain, can I?

Just as you can't know that it is. Just an opinion.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 9:10 AM | Report abuse

BTW, the coaching isn't the primary problem with this team. And changing the coach at this point in the season is not the solution.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 9:16 AM | Report abuse

H is seven feet tall, and late second round risks are best used on developmental big men.

And mid 1st round picks are best used on 6'8" developmental big men?

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"And mid 1st round picks are best used on 6'8" developmental big men?Posted by: divi3"

LOL Ernie must have liked the kid more than you did. But that's what's meant by taking risks. My view is, you can't micromanage the guy. If he fails, he fails, and he'll pay the price. Heck, he may get fired even if he succeeds -- this is the NBA, after all.

But no point nattering at him all along the way.

As for opinions -- like they say, we all have them.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

And mid 1st round picks are best used on 6'8" developmental big men?

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Actually...yes.

Look at the players drafted before Seraphin. Hell look at where JaVale got drafted.

You just expect everybody to come in and just be great of the bat?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 7, 2011 9:48 AM | Report abuse

It's now been almost 27 hours since the last post-mortums regarding a game the WIZ could have one. Can we move on please?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 7, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

"Yeah. It really is kind of sad that the Bullets isn't the kind of team to pay a good average NBA center 8 mil a year and then sign another center that puts him in a reserve roll."

If you think giving a brand new deal for $8+mill/yr for 5 years to a 30+ year old averaging 4 pts, 5 rebs, and shooting 28% from the FT line is the deal making model the Wizards should follow, then it explains volumes about some of the stuff you spew out.

"On the other hand we rather pay Kirk Hinrich 9 mil a year and play him like he is a star in this league when at best he only a viable backup player."

The Wizards are paying Hinrich $9 mil/yr for 2 years (minus the $3 mill cash the Bulls forked over along with a draft pick) at the end of his contract for a vet guard to help groom their prized rookie. (I'm pretty sure Tyson Chandler doesn't need Haywood's astute veteran guidance.) Oh, and you may have noticed, that now that Arenas is gone and the whole team is more or less healthy, Hinrich is *gasp* coming off the bench. Happy? Of course not.

"But don't let that stop the Haywood bashers. We pay Hinrich 9mil a year and can't win a road game, but Dallas on the other hand is continually in the hunt for a West coast championship and spending money to boot."

The Mavs haven't made it as far as the WCF in 5 years, and have only made it out of the first round once in that time, all the while sporting one of the league's highest payrolls every year. But hey, at least they're spending money, right? 'Casue that's all that matters. Actually getting their money's worth? Who cares about that, right?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"In fact just last night the combo was given very good reviews."

By who? Not by anyone calling the game. In fact, Steve Kerr specifically cited their lack of front court depth/size behind Chandler as an issue, with Dirk hurt and Haywood "relegated to the bench."

"If the Mavs are truly shopping Haywood, it is a quietly kept secret as far as I can tell."

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 7, 2011 9:00 AM

As opposed to the full page newspaper ads, roadside billboards, and personal e-mails to fans teams usually put out when they're trying to trade a player?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Wizards Coach Flip Saunders sees progress

Less schmaltz than the usual Mike Wise article.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 7, 2011 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Sounds like you'll get your wish. They only have 9 players, right? Fortunately he went to UConn so he's familiar with the cold weather. Like ND in January.

I saw the kid once in college and noticed him immediately. He defends the basket well. Not a natural athlete but he doesn't try to do things he can't. Could eventually have a future on the bench.

I don't know if anybody remembers the howling when Derrick Caracter was playing well in summer league -- why Ernie hadn't drafted him instead of Ndiaye. Reason probably is that H is seven feet tall, and late second round risks are best used on developmental big men.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 8:15 AM | Report abuse


H went to Rutgers and was big east defensive POY there. what were you watching when you "...saw the kid once in college and noticed him immediately"?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | January 7, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

As opposed to the full page newspaper ads, roadside billboards, and personal e-mails to fans teams usually put out when they're trying to trade a player?

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

You forgot NBA teams are required by law to express all intrest and offers in the media so us message board readers can know about it too.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | January 7, 2011 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Sure, sometimes it works out. Some players really do improve with time. But the numbers game is against you. Significant improvement is surprisingly rare. Young players who don't produce only rarely become fantastic veterans. And there are more than a few Wesley Matthews and Gary Neals out there who'd like to demonstrate they can make better use of that NBA roster spot.

All hail GMs who quit on bad players

Posted by: djnnnou | January 7, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

H went to Rutgers and was big east defensive POY there

And played 4yrs too right? Kind of odd he went so late in the draft, GMs having Thabeet hangover perhaps

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I thought Mike Wise´s piece was a pretty even-handed look at Flip's time here so far. There are times when my frustration can get the better of me and I want to see an Avery Johnson type here, kicking ass and taking names. But I can't see the sense of swallowing Flip's contract in a season that is heading down the tubes anyway, only to put a Randy Whitman in the his place. The message that sends is that the franchise is panicking. punching buttons to see if something works. A panicky franchise is hardly something a young, insecure team needs Criticize his rotations, sure, but give him time to work with a group for an extended period, with the franchise backing him up. More than 10 minutes less for KH or 10 more for McGee, what this franchise needs is the stability of an experienced NBA hand over a season or more, imprinting his style and insisting on intensity.

Posted by: mugsybol | January 7, 2011 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I thought Mike Wise´s piece was a pretty even-handed look at Flip's time here so far. There are times when my frustration can get the better of me and I want to see an Avery Johnson type here, kicking ass and taking names. But I can't see the sense of swallowing Flip's contract in a season that is heading down the tubes anyway, only to put a Randy Whitman in the his place. The message that sends is that the franchise is panicking. punching buttons to see if something works. A panicky franchise is hardly something a young, insecure team needs Criticize his rotations, sure, but give him time to work with a group for an extended period, with the franchise backing him up. More than 10 minutes less for KH or 10 more for McGee, what this franchise needs is the stability of an experienced NBA hand over a season or more, imprinting his style and insisting on intensity.

Posted by: mugsybol | January 7, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Sure, sometimes it works out. Some players really do improve with time. But the numbers game is against you. Significant improvement is surprisingly rare. Young players who don't produce only rarely become fantastic veterans. And there are more than a few Wesley Matthews and Gary Neals out there who'd like to demonstrate they can make better use of that NBA roster spot.

All hail GMs who quit on bad players

Article makes one wonder about the wisdom of thinking Adam Morrison, Yi, and Hilton Armstrong might resurrect themselves here.

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Good Morning...

I see Samson and kal are both back trying to find new Wizard fans in NOVA since he realizes old fans like myself aren't buying the BS he is selling.

lets see...

If you're an owner going into a rebuild, you know there will be mistakes along the way. The goal isn't to avoid them -- they're in the nature of a rebuild, and a GM who's afraid of making mistakes is a GM who's afraid to make decisions -- but to recognize and correct them. Rebuilds always include more mistakes than settled franchises, for obvious reasons.

but you also said...

The deal was a mistake, like the Blatche extension. When team's make mistakes, they try to clean them up via trade. At least the smart ones do.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 8:06 AM | Report abuse

And what pray tell and I know BF78 will like this question, what has Ernie really built here so far?

LarryInClintonMD.

Larry,

Ernie hasn't built anything here.

It's a vicious circle, he makes a mistake and then trades his mistake for someone else's mistake and then calls it rebuilding?

A rebuild team needs a GM with a good draft pick record...and we all know what Ernie's drafts have been like.

Every move Ernie made back when the Wizards were a settled franchise (AJ, CB, BTH, DS, Gil and AD)was a mistake and now since we are rebuilding all we can expect is more mistakes...but that's because of obvious reasons?

The obvious reason is because Ernie sucks.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 7, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"Ernie hasn't built anything here."

Didn't need to read any further then this.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | January 7, 2011 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Wizards Coach Flip Saunders sees progress

By Mike Wise

"If I had a dime for every time someone said, 'Hang in there' . . . " Saunders said, his voice rising.

You do it's called making $4 million per year and being able to stay in really nice hotels with 24-hour room service!

Saunders still says his greatest accomplishment was having his entire roster not miss a practice or game his first regular season in Detroit.

That's just sad...

Saunders said. "After 200 times, nothing happens. And you think that's it. And then you hit it the 201st time and you start to see a crack...

So the fans have to wait while the team losses 200 road games so we can win the 201st?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 7, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

what this franchise needs is the stability of an experienced NBA hand over a season or more, imprinting his style and insisting on intensity. Posted by: mugsybol

I agree. Bad organizations run through coaches, and as long as Wall is responding to Flip another coaching change shouldn't be an issue.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 7, 2011 12:42 PM | Report abuse

"Article makes one wonder about the wisdom of thinking Adam Morrison, Yi, and Hilton Armstrong might resurrect themselves here."

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 12:21 PM


And what makes you think anyone thought they would be "resurrected" here?

Morrison was signed to a non-guaranteed, minimum training camp deal, just like every player who's brought in for a look in training camp.

Armstrong is on a 1-year vet minimum deal.

Yi is in the last season of his rookie contract.

The investment in those guys is minimal, and the financial flexibility they represent is at least as important to the rebuilding effort as what they bring to the floor, if not more so. They were zero-risk acquisitions. If they panned out, the Wiz would have the inside track on keeping them for a reasonable price. if not, they're gone with no further obligation and minimal cost incurred.

Don't see anything to suggest they were candidates for "resurrection."

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Article makes one wonder about the wisdom of thinking Adam Morrison, Yi, and Hilton Armstrong might resurrect themselves here.

It should make one wonder about holding on to underachieving non-lottery players.

Posted by: djnnnou | January 7, 2011 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I cannot imagine a professional soccer (outide US at least)or cricket team excusing their losing on rebuilding!!!!

This whole rebuilding thing for professional teams does not make sense. The way a professional franchise should be run is that you have some seniors who keep carrying the team as some of the youngsters are getting experience. There should not be more than 10 games needed to get the chemistry and seasoning needed to play together as a team.
Anything more means they are not PROFESSIONAL, they are amateurs and need to go home!

Posted by: venky1 | January 7, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"H went to Rutgers and was big east defensive POY there."

LOL sorry got my schools mixed up.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

"If the Mavs are truly shopping Haywood, it is a quietly kept secret as far as I can tell." Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | January 7, 2011 9:00 AM"

Here you go, dated 12-24-10. The Rotoworld fantasy players follow this stuff very closely, but the source is ESPN:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nba&id=785

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

This thing with Brendan Haywood's foul shooting is something I hadn't noticed. From Dallas Morning News blog:

"Q: Is Brendan Haywood on pace to set an NBA record for foul-shooting futility? Hard to imagine anyone can be worse than 25%."

"SEFKO: Answering this question is the least I could do. And as most of you know, I'll always do the least I can do. So a little research led me to Ben Wallace as the worst NBA free throw shooter of all time at 41.6 percent as of Wednesday."

"If you go year by year, his worst season with at least one free throw attempted per game was 2000-01, when he was 80-of-238, or 33.6 percent. That would put Haywood (17-of-61, 27.9 percent) in the lead for worst free-throw shooting season on record."

"Now, I welcome anybody from the NBA, Elias Sports Bureau or their mother's basement to dig deep and find the worst overall free-throw shooting season of at least 82 attempts."

"But for now, let's just say Haywood is in the hunt. Of course, Wallace this season is only 14-of-42 (33.3) for the Pistons, putting him in the conversation with Haywood."

"This could be a year-long battle for the honor."

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Weird thing is that Brendan is a career 61% FT shooter. He's played in 33 games with 1 start and averaged 18 minutes.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"I cannot imagine a professional soccer (outide US at least)or cricket team excusing their losing on rebuilding!!!!

Posted by: venky1 | January 7, 2011 1:01 PM

Since the Wiz aren't a non-U.S. soccer or cricket team, I cannot imagine how this is relevant.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 2:04 PM | Report abuse

And what makes you think anyone thought they would be "resurrected" here?

What's the point of signing them if you don't think there is legit potential for them to contribute in a meaningful way?

Morrison was signed to a non-guaranteed, minimum training camp deal, just like every player who's brought in for a look in training camp.

He sucks. Most everyone knew this before he got here. He came here and stunk. Sure no risk- but no chance for reward either. Why not invite a guy who is actually an unknown? Same risk, with at least the potential for Wes Mathews or whatever.

Yi is in the last season of his rookie contract.

And will soon be a FA without an offer from Washington.

The investment in those guys is minimal, and the financial flexibility they represent is at least as important to the rebuilding effort as what they bring to the floor, if not more so. They were zero-risk acquisitions. If they panned out, the Wiz would have the inside track on keeping them for a reasonable price. if not, they're gone with no further obligation and minimal cost incurred.

The whole point of the article was that they were not going to pan out, and that perhaps GMs these days are realizing this and have adjusted how they do business. If the best that can be said is "they were zero risk"....it's really not saying much about a GMs acumen.

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

We are 8-25 and a so called "young team." But yet, we don't even play our youngs!!
If we are going to lose, then play the guys that will be here in the future!! I went to that disaster of a game against the Hornets, and did not see Trevor Booker or Seraphin step foot on the court. But instead I got an eyeful of Blatche (who's not going to be with the team much longer) and Lewis, who doesn't want to be here and is probably on the trading block!! WTH!! I mean it's bad enough seeing Dejuan Blair get his 10+ rebounds per night, but to endure knuckle-headed, soft Blatche, who thinks he is Steph Curry??? Seriously, Flip/EG... What is the direction of this franchise? By the way, I wrote-in our favorite Wizards for the all-star ballot voting. Our popular 2nd round picks - CASH$$$$!!!! CA$H for the all-star game!! "Where's the cake??"

Posted by: hamptonpirates89 | January 7, 2011 2:12 PM | Report abuse

The sad thing is...Ernie and Flip's Wizards would lose to the Dakota Wizards if the game was played in Bismarck, N.D.

That is pretty funny, must admit

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"The whole point of the article was that they were not going to pan out, and that perhaps GMs these days are realizing this and have adjusted how they do business. If the best that can be said is "they were zero risk"....it's really not saying much about a GMs acumen."

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 2:08 PM

I think you must have read a different article. The whole point of the one I read was that perhaps GMs were becoming less reluctant to pull the trigger on declaring failure on players they drafted with high picks (I mean, jesus, it says so in the very first line), instead of holding onto them through the entirety of their rookie contracts and, in some cases, even extending their financial commitment to them for additional years, in the vain hope they may eventually pan out. Basically it's an observation about GMs not compounding the mistake of a bad initial investment by continuing to sink money into it over several years. That's the point of the article I read. If you wanna post the link to the one you read, I'll be happy to check it out.

Given that the Wizards didn't draft Morrison, Yi, or Armstrong and that their financial commitment to them was for 1 year (and not even that in Morrison's case) the argument put forth in the articce has nothing to do with the Wizards' acquisition of said players.

If that obvious bit of distortion and spin is the best you can do, it doesn't say much about your acumen.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"We are 8-25 and a so called "young team." But yet, we don't even play our youngs!!"

Posted by: hamptonpirates89 | January 7, 2011 2:12 PM

Aside from Hinrich, Lewis, Thornton, and Howard, every player on the roster is 26 or younger.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 2:43 PM | Report abuse

BTW there's a universe of difference between expecting player to "contribute in a meaningful way" and expecting a player to be "resurrected."

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

If the wizards announced head coach flip saunders had been fired citing the league worst 0-17 road record, would anybody here be surprised, disappointed or upset?

Posted by: spoooooooon | January 7, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Oh I get it, it's a smart move for a GM to cut ties with a dud during his rookie contract rather than throwing good money (and PT) after bad....but it's also a smart move for another GM to pick that guy up and throw good money and PT at him since it's only a 1yr commitment and relatively inexpensive. Because somehow it's not the exact same commitment and cost (at that point) to the GM who drafted him? Yeah, that makes sense.

There's no reason to acquire players or invite them to camp when they have zero chance of developing for you. That's what Morrison was and Yi currently is, and all the evidence was available prior to them coming here. The cost of inviting a known washout like Morrison is you preclude yourself from actually unearthing a gem- only so many invites available.

With Yi, you're looking at a guy who is what he is and I'd rather every minute he played this season had gone to Booker or Seraphin. If Yi hadnt gotten hurt, how much less would our 1st round picks have played? That's a real cost to a rebuilding org

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

If the wizards announced head coach flip saunders had been fired citing the league worst 0-17 road record, would anybody here be surprised, disappointed or upset?

Posted by: spoooooooon | January 7, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

spoooooooon,

On this issue I would be on the same side as Flip because...I'm sure he would be thrilled to get fired.

Other then Samson and kal (and their other pen names they post with) I haven't read anyone else who would be upset by firing Flip.

Wait, I thought of one more person...

Kirk

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | January 7, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"Oh I get it, it's a smart move for a GM to cut ties with a dud during his rookie contract rather than throwing good money (and PT) after bad....but it's also a smart move for another GM to pick that guy up and throw good money and PT at him since it's only a 1yr commitment and relatively inexpensive. Because somehow it's not the exact same commitment and cost (at that point) to the GM who drafted him? Yeah, that makes sense."

It does make sense because it is, in fact, not even close to the same commitment as the GM who drafted the player originally. The GM who drafted him invested multiple years worth of salary, a high pick, and the expectations that come with both. All the Wizards invested was a relatively small salary and one year of a rebuilding process in which roster turnover is a given and evaluation of players before committing long-term money to them is a good idea. Not even close to the same thing.

"There's no reason to acquire players or invite them to camp when they have zero chance of developing for you."

True. But irrelevant, because there was certainly a chance that any or all of the players under question could develop/produce. How much of a chance? Up for debate, but there was certainly some chance. Morrison turned out not to, but since they basically paid him nothing, who (other than you) really cares? They took a minor risk and it didn't pay off. No harm, no foul. It's the whole point of bringing players in for training camp tryouts. Morrison was no greater or lesser a risk than any other player they could have brought in. And the odds of any other player making the roster were just as slim as Morrison's.

As far as Yi he's played well at times for Washington, not so well at other times. Yi has talent and will likely get picked up by someone if the Wiz let him go. For big money, a long-term deal, and a starting spot? Nope. But not every player is meant to fill that role, and plenty of useful ones don't. The guy has was coming off a big showing at the FIBA games. Was it worth the pittance the Wiz invested in him to see if it carried back to the NBA? Yes, because if it had paid off, it would have netted a nice return. Since it hasn't, it cost them little and obligates them to nothing going forward.

Again, it's not like they made a long-term commitment to any of them, which is what the article was actually talking about, making your comparison of Grunfeld's moves to the kind of "good money after bad" transactions the article was talking about way wide of the mark.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, fire Flip. That'll make Blatche get tough inside. Fire Flip, that'll make McGee learn to box out. Fire Flip, that'll make Wall play like a 7-year vet. Fire Flip, that'll turn Hilton Armstrong into Wes Unseld. Fire Flip, that'll make Booker grow 3 inches. Fire Flip, that'll mend Howard's ACL. Etc...

Posted by: mugsybol | January 7, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't care less whether they fire Saunders. I simply see no reason to think that getting rid of him, in and off itself, will have a significant improvement effect if nothing else (i.e., the roster) changes. So then, what's the point of firing him, at least now? None that I can see.

Posted by: kalo_rama | January 7, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

The guy has was coming off a big showing at the FIBA games

We acquired him in June, fiba was in august. He was coming off another season of heavy minutes yet no traction with the team he played for. I think the point of that article is GMs are now making their judgments on these players more quickly rather than hoping they one day morph into great players. To that end, hopefully 3yrs from now we are inviting a Cartier Martin to camp rather than Luke Babbit.

Posted by: divi3 | January 7, 2011 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"I cannot imagine a professional soccer (outide US at least)or cricket team excusing their losing on rebuilding!!!!Posted by: venky1"

I remember them doing it with some frequency. The big issue in the Premier League is to avoid getting sent down. My club, Spurs, was in the middle of an extended, painful, and necessary rebuild. London has 14 professional football clubs, of which five are Premier League -- Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, West Ham, and Tottenham Hotspur -- and the rivalries are nothing short of vicious. When your club's in the toilet, rival fans can't wait to flush. This year it looks like West Ham is in the danger spot.

Teams like Man U get something of a pass based on their rep, like the Yankees, but underneath, their fans are as crazy as anyone's.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"I couldn't care less whether they fire Saunders. I simply see no reason to think that getting rid of him, in and off itself, will have a significant improvement effect if nothing else (i.e., the roster) changes. So then, what's the point of firing him, at least now? None that I can see.Posted by: kalo_rama"

Same with me. I've never met Flip, and have no more invested in his fate than I did in Eddie Jordan's. You have your true believers who think the Wiz are a talented club being held back by coaching; I'm not one of them. But then I haven't been since before the season, when I checked out that roster. I thought the Wages of Wins people and the writers at Sports Illustrated had it about right, and so far, I believe that's been proved out.

If we replaced the coach we might get a few more victories or a few more losses this season without substantively altering the prognosis for the future. Better to do these things at season's end.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"There's no reason to acquire players or invite them to camp when they have zero chance of developing for you. That's what Morrison was and Yi currently is, and all the evidence was available prior to them coming here. The cost of inviting a known washout like Morrison is you preclude yourself from actually unearthing a gem- only so many invites available."posted by divi3

Well, to me this is second-guessing. Micromanaging, if you prefer. Your opinion backed by evidence of your choosing, versus Ernie Grunfeld's opinion, no doubt backed by other evidence. Your opinion against his.

But it's a free country, so gripe away.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 4:27 PM | Report abuse

"The sad thing is...Ernie and Flip's Wizards would lose to the Dakota Wizards if the game was played in Bismarck, N.D."

Here's the roster:
Mike Anderson F
Darren Cooper G
Anthony Goods G
Mike Hall F
Vernon Hamilton G
Chris Johnson C
Renaldo Major F
Hamady N'Diaye C
Dominique Scales F
Walter Sharpe F

Hall is from GW...

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"...all the evidence was available prior to [Morrison and Yi] coming here."

Some would argue that the evidence was available prior to the season that the Wiz were going to lose a lot of games, some of them ugly. And yet some fans predicted they'd be in the playoff hunt.

Couldn't they see this coming? Answer: no, they couldn't. Why not? Because they convinced themselves otherwise.

So who's the idiot here?

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I think it better that Flip stays at this point; with the possible lockout next season, a crop of young players, now doesn't seem to be the time to terminate, might as well carry through with the experiment and see if Flip blows up the lab or produces flubber.
I wouldn't gripe much if they let him go but it won't matter, no surprise that the Wiz appear lottery bound, and that's not such a bad thing for a team in re-build.

Posted by: midlevex_ | January 7, 2011 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sold on Flip as a Xs and Os guy, and I'm confused about his substitution patterns. But I watch him and agree that he really DOES like to teach, and as a former point guard may be the best man for the job of bringing John Wall along, particularly with Hinrich and Cassell to help.

I don't see any benefit to changing horses in midstream. Let's play it out. I believe the team will begin to click as the year wears on and will compete for one of the final playoff spots, which will be valuable training for our young guys.

Posted by: zinger1 | January 7, 2011 5:14 PM | Report abuse

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