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Posted at 7:05 PM ET, 02/23/2011

Wizards trade Kirk Hinrich to Atlanta [UPDATED]

By Michael Lee

The Wizards have traded veteran point guard Kirk Hinrich to the Atlanta Hawks. Two league sources have confirmed that the Wizards are shipping Hinrich and backup center Hilton Armstrong to Atlanta in exchange for guard Mike Bibby, veteran swingman Maurice Evans, rookie guard Jordan Crawford and a first-round pick this summer.

Will come back with more as I hear it.

By Michael Lee  | February 23, 2011; 7:05 PM ET
Categories:  Kirk Hinrich  
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Comments

Hey I am liking this trade. Crawford looked pretty good the couple of times I saw him play. Also, it would be good for Kirk to be put in a winning situation with the Hawks. As I said before, the dude can ball and he could really help the hawks...

Posted by: BulletsFever | February 23, 2011 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Mostly we know that Jordan is a catch and shoot player who learned to play some defense at Xavier and had one notable dunk against LeBron. So the dunkathusiasts would be happy, at least.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 7:21 PM | Report abuse

The Atlanta Hawks and Washington Wizards are nearing a deal that would send Kirk Hinrich and Hilton Armstrong to Atlanta in exchange for Mike Bibby, Maurice Evans and Jordan Crawford. The trade hasn't been finalized, but the deal is expected to be completed before tomorrow's deadline.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18860#ixzz1EpbOcl2o

Posted by: Hadman1 | February 23, 2011 7:24 PM | Report abuse

HOW WILL WALL SURVIVE WITHOUT HIS MENTOR??????

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 7:24 PM | Report abuse

A good young prospect in Jordan, a 1st round pick, and a veteran three point shooting PG for Kirk and a career bench warmer! All the EG haters better shut up for a while. He just fleeced Atlanta.

Posted by: mike311 | February 23, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Sources told ESPN.com that the latest version of the deal would send veteran guard Mike Bibby, rookie guard Jordan Crawford, swingman Maurice Evans and a 2011 first-round pick to the Wizards for Hinrich and Hilton Armstrong.

It this deal is the actual deal then I love it! As long as there a number one draft pick. It will also mean that we may not be done dealing before the trade deadline.

Posted by: demonj21 | February 23, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

I'll volunteer to drive Kirk to the airport.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 23, 2011 7:45 PM | Report abuse

At the end of the day the Wiz could get Kevin Seraphin, Mike Bibby, Jordan Crawford, Maurice Evans and first round pick for Vladimir Veermenko and Hilton Armstrong, now that is pretty damn AMAZING. Well done EG.

Posted by: peteywheatstraw | February 23, 2011 7:46 PM | Report abuse

HOW WILL WALL SURVIVE WITHOUT HIS MENTOR??????

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 7:24 PM |

LOL.

John "Brick" Wall will be lost without Kirk. Kirk is the best thing that has ever happened to "Brick" according to a lot of posts on this blog.

Posted by: squidward1 | February 23, 2011 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Deal is done.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 23, 2011 7:50 PM | Report abuse

People were telling me earlier it was the other J Crawford on ATL and I was really excited. I don't know much about Jordan to be honest, but after looking at the contracts of the players in this deal, I have to say this would be great for the Wiz. I always liked Bibby since Sacramento was my second favorite team back when the great Webber played there. Not sure how he fits into the rotation but he is a better mentor for Wall than Hinrich any day. Mo Evans and Crawford are more serviceable than this Armstrong character who I never really liked as well.

I give Ernie an A on trades and an F on drafting, so he averages out to a C and I still think we need a new GM, but still good move if it happens. Now work on shipping out Rashard and either Blatche or Mcgee please. I also think we should trade Flip for a ham sandwich.

Posted by: bosshog7169 | February 23, 2011 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Thank You..If no trades were made before the deadline I was done with this front office. I love this trade and like Crawford because Nick is shaky. Not saying crawford is better, but Kirk was all we really had to offer someone.

Posted by: echamber | February 23, 2011 8:00 PM | Report abuse

like the trade assuming Bibby's contract is palatable. Better than losing Hinrich to free agency and getting nothing in return after next season.

Posted by: sportsjunkie29 | February 23, 2011 8:01 PM | Report abuse

If they get Crawford and a first-round pick in the deal, this is highway robbery by the Wizards.

Posted by: VeCente115 | February 23, 2011 8:02 PM | Report abuse

kirk is EASILY better than bibby but he isnt going to save the hawks...nice work EG, reports say you held out on them

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Nicely done. Kirk didn't want to be here and they did him a favor by not holding him a prisoner here with this bunch. I'm guessing Hylton was a through in but we wont miss him if the young bigs continue to grow.

Posted by: zack5 | February 23, 2011 8:12 PM | Report abuse

this trade is a STEAL... we just got Atlanta's 2010 first rounder (Jordan Crawford - stud at Xavier who dunked on Lebron at Lebron's summer camp a few years back) AND their 2011 first rounder. GREAT MOVE... surround John Wall with good young 1st round caliber talent adding to up and coming Nick Young and Andray Blatche (he'll be better next year once he gets an offseason to work out again, remember he broke his foot this past offseason after breaking out last season)

Posted by: jzafied | February 23, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Hmm, a first and those extras for Hinrich?

Not sure about those players but a first for a guy that won't be here when this team is competitive is a steal.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Is Hinrich that good? I think Mike Bibby could easily replace Hinrich as Wall's mentor and Armstrong doesn't get off the bench anyway. So this is a good deal for the Wizards.

Posted by: tundey | February 23, 2011 8:18 PM | Report abuse

lmao...an F in drafting? Are you kidding me? NY, JM, Booker, Seraphin, JW, AB...with the exception of JW those are all late picks. C'mon. Be real! Now, a lot of these players need more time and development as all young players do, but that statement is absurd.

And, don't bring up last year's trade of the lottery pick bc it made complete sense at the time. Had it been this season, I'm sure EG would have selected someone there and probably drafted Blair as well.

His biggest mistakes have been in contract extensions - GA, AJ, Etan, and it appears AB. As I have stated repeatedly and has been reported in the media, there was a lot of pressure to extend GA and AJ from Abe Pollin bc he thought that was his last chance, however slight, to win a championship again before he passed.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

I am completely surprised at this.

Firstly, that they even made a deal and secondly, that they got a 1st pick for Hinrich.

There was no way I thought that any team would give up a 1st pick for Hinrich.

This may save the GM's head Melodius.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 23, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

This reeks of a desperation move by a Hawks team that's capped into a corner and at a crossroads in terms of team advancement/improvement.

This is a great deal for the Wiz, however. A scoring young guard with potential (and a possible Young replacement), a pick, and cap space for a guy who was gone at the end of the season and another guy who would be following him out the door soon enough. And, just like I said when we got Hinrich, odds are Bibby will get moved before his deal expires.

Plus, I can't wait for all the people who complained that Hinrich was a bad defender to get an up close look at Bibby.

(And word's just come down that Charlotte traded Gerald Wallace to the Blazers for Joel Przybilla.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Although we got a pick in the deal, I have no faith that Ernie will pick the right player.

Posted by: squidward1 | February 23, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich is better than Bibby hands down. This is not the Bibby of the Sactown glory days. He is older and slower and he was never fast to begin with. He is a better open jump shooter however.

I think the team still has it's mind on the trade after half.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

It is a pretty weak draft, though.

Man, this team has me depressed even when there's hope.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Wow. This is a good deal for the Wizards. Doesn't win us games but certainly gives room to make more moves. A first round pick for what was essentially a give away player from Chicago (remember Chicago gave us Hinrich so they could clear space to chase LeBron). Wow!

Posted by: tundey | February 23, 2011 8:30 PM | Report abuse

The only area of the game where Hinrich is really demonstrably better than Bibby is defense, an area in which Bibby has always been bad. But it was (according to the reports leading up to this deal) a major area the Hawks wanted to address. (Hinrich's probably a little quicker off the dribble at this point, too). It wasn't so much a case of one being across the board better than the other as it was a case of one filling a specific need better.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes I just can't believe how stupid JM is. Watching him jump out of the lane like a 5th grader after he camped out in the lane was hysterical if you ask me. This after blowing a layup and other misadventures.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 8:34 PM | Report abuse

I guess Crawford replaces Martin? Evans replaces Thornton? Or will Howard be moved?

There's another trade coming I think.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Meanwhile, the Sixers are pulling away.

Gonna' be another long last 30 games.

And Javale McGee is regressing to his rookie year. He...is....lost...out...there.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 8:36 PM | Report abuse

What a deal! EG basically gained a 1st round pick for Hinrich, and now EG gets Crawford and a 1st round pick for giving up Crawford. So we get 3 1st round picks for having Hinrich play for us for half a year. That's good work.

Posted by: Dellis2010 | February 23, 2011 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

I will bring up those picks because there were several great players available instead of foye and miller. As for those other guys you mentioned, Wall could have been picked by anybody and is a no-brainer so he doesn't count. As for the other five guys you mentioned, some of whom are actually slightly above average, Booker is the only one who has convinced me so far that he will be remembered as a good player when his career is finished. Don't get me wrong I like those other picks and I root for them, but there isn't an all star in the group or a hustler or a leader, and for every decent to above average pick there is a Pecherov. I feel like I could have done as good of a job, or better because I would have taken D Blair as would most other people. Our GM should be smarter than me and know more about drafting, thats all I'm asking. I don't dislike Ernie, I think he's an above average GM in some respects, certainly better than past ones, but we gave him a chance and this is where we're at. He made us this way. I just think we need to get somebody new to GM who doesn't think 7 footers who weigh 150 pounds are the wave of the future. I agree with you about the extensions although i still think Blatche's was reasonable.

Posted by: bosshog7169 | February 23, 2011 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, how many years will it take for Javalle to understand basic concepts of professional basketball. His lack of comprehension of the NBA game is disturbing!

Posted by: squidward1 | February 23, 2011 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Well, if Hinrich is demonstrably better defensively and they are similar offensively that would make Hinrich a lot better player. Plus, I think he has the edge in intangibles as well. But, what do we care.

If you look back, I can't believe how quickly EG was able to turnover the roster from last season to not only get younger, but stock picks and fairly good prospects. I thought GA would be untradeable. If EG unloads RL anytime soon, he is a genius in my book. Two seasons from now, I think we will be Oklahomacityesque.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 8:42 PM | Report abuse

I liked this deal before I knew a first rounder was involved. Icing on the cake. 3 decent contracts and serviceable players for one overpaid guy who I never liked and another guy who should be in the D league. Thanks for update.

Posted by: bosshog7169 | February 23, 2011 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Bibby will no doubt cry himself to sleep at the thought of playing with Nick, Javale, and Andray, after Al Horford and Josh Smith... But getting the draft choice is the key. The rest of it is moving pieces on the chessboard.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 8:46 PM | Report abuse

I really like this trade, we got an extra 1st rd pick, which we can use for a trade either to move up in the draft or for a veteran player next year, if we decide not to use it. We also got Jordan, which is another young player to add in our youth movement and add scoring punch in our bench. 2 years from now Lewis & Bibby's big contracts will expire, along with Thorton, Ji and Howards contracts this year(after we hopefully resigned NY to a non over paid contract next year) we will have plenty of cap room to hopefully sign D. Howard or any big names free agent that year.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 8:47 PM | Report abuse

@Boss,

What GM hasn't had a Pecherov or two with a late first round pick? Answer: NONE. And, you ignore NY who is averaging 20 points a game and AB who is the best second round pick of his draft hands down.

And, I can't predict the future, but I agree Booker will be a pros pro and be a player every team needs on the roster. I also believe in 2/3 seasons Seraphin will be a Nene lite. Remember he has only played basketball for a few years and already looks smarter than JM.

Finally, the Wiz were over the cap so the second round pick that could have been used to pick Blair had already been sold. Remember???

Yeah, they got distracted after being told about the trade at halftime. That and they are dropping like flies to injury. Can we make injury free players a requirement for future players as well.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 8:53 PM | Report abuse

What a deal! EG basically gained a 1st round pick for Hinrich, and now EG gets Crawford and a 1st round pick for giving up Crawford. So we get 3 1st round picks for having Hinrich play for us for half a year. That's good work.

Posted by: Dellis2010


I agree, and don't forget the 3 million Bulls gave us too.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I guess Crawford replaces Martin? Evans replaces Thornton? Or will Howard be moved?

There's another trade coming I think.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 8:34 PM | Report abuse

I agree - we have a lot of 2s is Young next? Blache just left the floor "with an injury" - cross your fingers

Posted by: junkmail0153 | February 23, 2011 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Nothing else matters. The Wizards wouldn't win with the starting 5 from the East in the All-star game with Saunders as the coach. One pass and then whoever has the ball is on his own. No offensive scheme; no defensive scheme. Let's get a real coach!

Posted by: tomd1753 | February 23, 2011 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Nice deal.

Evans is probably gone after this year.

Bibby at this stage in his career is a down-grade from Hinrich (offensively and especially defensively). But for a lottery bound team, Bibby should work out OK. He's still a viable back-up PG, and he only has a $6.2 million left on his contract next year.

The deal basically comes down to whether Crawford and whoever the #1 pick is bring some long-term value.

It's worth remembering too that the original deal that brought Hinrich and Seraphin to the Wizards just involved some cap relief for Chicago.

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Oy, they are getting crushed.

As I said, these last 30 games will just be brutal.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Will they lose by 40?

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 9:01 PM | Report abuse

JM is a lost cause. All the physical attributes in the world couldn't make up for his absolute incompetence. The guy is a moron. Blatche is completely lazy and NY might be a decent 6th man in the right system, but unfortunately thinks he's the next MJ.

Booker, Wall, Howard, Lewis, Seraphin,and Jordan Crawford should be getting most of the minutes here on out.

Posted by: mike311 | February 23, 2011 9:03 PM | Report abuse

JM is a lost cause. All the physical attributes in the world couldn't make up for his absolute incompetence. The guy is a moron. Blatche is completely lazy and NY might be a decent 6th man in the right system, but unfortunately thinks he's the next MJ.

Booker, Wall, Howard, Lewis, Seraphin,and Jordan Crawford should be getting most of the minutes here on out.

Posted by: mike311 | February 23, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

thinking the Hawks pick will be around 22 or 23, right?

So is Ernie looking to package 22nd pick with 5th pick and a guy like crawford to move up to 3 or so?

Or maybe go the other way and package Blatche and the 22 and 5 for a vet?

Or does he just use the picks?

The suspense is killing me...of course, I could actually watch the game instead.

Posted by: Blurred | February 23, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Oh man, Seraphin plays mean. I love that dude! Speights makes two straight jumpers and Seraphin levels him while on offense. And, guess what, Speights missed his next shot! Booker playing well again.

Seraphin leveled Artest earlier in the season. I need to see him play more!!!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 9:05 PM | Report abuse

"thinking the Hawks pick will be around 22 or 23, right?So is Ernie looking to package 22nd pick with 5th pick and a guy like crawford to move up to 3 or so?Or maybe go the other way and package Blatche and the 22 and 5 for a vet?Or does he just use the picks?"

Not sure anybody will be jockeying to move up into the top 3. The value looks to be after the tenth pick. But there are some prospects in that area.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Thank Goodness the Hoyas are about to tip off. Yet another brutal performance for the Izzards.
I could not see any semblance of offensive continuity tonight. Looked like 5 strangers playing together.

Posted by: bozomoeman | February 23, 2011 9:09 PM | Report abuse

yep...let's give up on the 22 yo center. everyone knows that if a center has not hit his peak by age 22, he never will.

Posted by: Blurred | February 23, 2011 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Great!

Now fire Ernie before he can use that pick.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 23, 2011 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Love this trade! And like others have opined, I think there is more dealing to be done. Bibby is likely to be bought out when all is said and done. All in all, a small positive step in what has been a dismal season.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | February 23, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Nobody has stated that we should give up on JM or, at least, I haven't. But, name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter. JM's ceiling is probably a very good backup C and occasional starter.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Looks like they are trying to get Flip fired, worst loss of the season to a Philly team that isnt especially talented.

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 9:17 PM | Report abuse

This trade makes sense. Problem for Wiz fans: this is another example of Leonsis stripping this thing down to kids and draft picks. Ted's goal is to limp into the lockout with the bare minimum. Expect him to fire the basketball staff after the draft, layoff about 50 percent of the business staff and pray the lockout lasts a full season to save money.

Posted by: heresthescoop | February 23, 2011 9:17 PM | Report abuse

I know this is not the game thread, but Trevor Booker is looking like an upgrade over Andre Blatche.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | February 23, 2011 9:19 PM | Report abuse

What happened to Shakur? We need a backup PG stat!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 23, 2011 9:19 PM | Report abuse

thinking the Hawks pick will be around 22 or 23, right?

So is Ernie looking to package 22nd pick with 5th pick and a guy like crawford to move up to 3 or so?

Or maybe go the other way and package Blatche and the 22 and 5 for a vet?

Or does he just use the picks?

The suspense is killing me...of course, I could actually watch the game instead.

Posted by: Blurred

I heard it's currently the 21st pick overall. IMO that's too much to give up just to move up 2-3 slots in a so far weak top 3 draft.....plus who's to say we don't get that top 3 pick on our own, hoping Irene Pollin gets us lucky again with her mustard looking coat haha. I say we use it, and keep stacking up on young and cheaper talent....which is what the original plan is for our rebulding team.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 9:20 PM | Report abuse

man. this team seriously looks like they smoke too much pot. nick young must be lighting up fatties on the reg and javale mcgee, lets get real, that dude is regressing!!!

the worst thing that happened to him was getting invited to the dunk contest. goes to his head and will kill the little work ethic he has.

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | February 23, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

"But, name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter."

Jermaine O'Neal.

Not saying that's where McGee's career is headed, but it took O'Neal 6 years to really develop his potential. It wasn't really until his 5th year that the light came on and he started getting regular minutes and producing regularly.

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Until Ted decides to pay big $$$ for an established elite player to run with Wall, the team will go nowhere. Shuffling around role players and later picks is nice, but it doesnt matter until we have at least a "Big 2".

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 9:25 PM | Report abuse

This team still needs to somehow get McGee and Blatch straightened out.

If they can't, they'll have to use more resources to address the problems at 4 and 5.

They're getting picks and some younger players; but they still have no direction.

So, what exactly are they trying to do?

Posted by: SteveMG | February 23, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Javale for Oden! do it do it

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | February 23, 2011 9:29 PM | Report abuse

It takes more than just $$$ to attract a truly elite player, because every team in the league will throw $$$ at an elite player. You've got to have something else they want. That's what Leonsis is doing, assembling assets that he hopes to use to lay a foundation that'll be attractive to an elite player. Wall is the cornerstone of that foundation. With any luck the picks and cap space can be used to assemble a few other pieces. But it's going to take time.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

YAY!! Hilton "The Bench Maker" Armstrong is gone! I couldn't stand him since we traded for him. The Hawks must've saw the tape of his effort at the end of that game showing his three point skills. LOL! But I like the trade because for some reason Ernie got us a 1st round draft pick and a young promising player in Jo. Crawford. I feel bad for Ernie losing the player that he was yearning for for so long.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | February 23, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

mcgee and blatche CLEARLY are not the answers. Blatche is only playing because there is no one else.

I am tired of the talk about the wizards "core" like NY, AB, JM. All 3 of those players are bench players on a playoff team and dont play at all on a high caliber team.

The only decent players on the roster are JW and Booker. Lewis clearly lost a step and Howards knee is worse than Gilberts in 09.

With the talent coming to the East, its looking like the Wiz are 5 years away from making the playoffs.

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | February 23, 2011 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Until Ted decides to pay big $$$ for an established elite player to run with Wall, the team will go nowhere. Shuffling around role players and later picks is nice, but it doesnt matter until we have at least a "Big 2".

Posted by: divi3


I agree, but we're in the 1st year of rebuilding, let's give it a chance. In a couple years we'll have more cap room to spend on free agents, and by then Wall will be hopefully a much better player that free agents will wanna come play with him.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 9:33 PM | Report abuse

JM's ceiling is probably a very good backup C

----

think "very good" is stretching it. athleticism will only carry him so far.

Posted by: MinuMang | February 23, 2011 9:34 PM | Report abuse

"YAY!! Hilton "The Bench Maker" Armstrong is gone! I couldn't stand him since we traded for him."

They didn't trade for him, they signed him as a FA.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Man, how many minutes did AB get at C tonight? And Seraphin finished with only 2 fouls. That's just awful, but at least Hilton is gone. The trade is solid. Crawford looks like a guy that just jacks up shots, but he many end up an asset. The pick gives Ernie a little more freedom than what a bought one brings. I doubt that the Wizards would spend $3 mil to stash a guy in Europe for several years, so that's an option now. And they can still buy picks.

Posted by: djnnnou | February 23, 2011 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Gentlemen: The Wizards are so bad right now, and the team is so devoid of talent, that none of this really makes any difference in the short term. The only way that you can judge the success of this trade is what the Wizards (unfortunately then means Ernie)do with the draft pick. If last year's draft is an indication, i.e., Seraphin, I don't think the pick is worth much. You simply need to get lucky.

Posted by: larryrob | February 23, 2011 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Just when I'm ready to send Ernie G. packing, he pulls off a gem of a trade! For those who may have forgotten about Jordan Crawford, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XejLyk3kJZg

Also Mo Evans is a hard nose baller with game as well! Yeeeeeeea baby!!!

Posted by: bazteal | February 23, 2011 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Wizards fleeced the Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: skinsdiehard | February 23, 2011 9:40 PM | Report abuse

for you rphili - the guy I was responding to:

JM is a lost cause. All the physical attributes in the world couldn't make up for his absolute incompetence. The guy is a moron.

Posted by: mike311 | February 23, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Blurred | February 23, 2011 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Gentlemen: The Wizards are so bad right now, and the team is so devoid of talent, that none of this really makes any difference in the short term. The only way that you can judge the success of this trade is what the Wizards (unfortunately then means Ernie)do with the draft pick. If last year's draft is an indication, i.e., Seraphin, I don't think the pick is worth much. You simply need to get lucky.

Posted by: larryrob

That's the thing, this is not a short term deal, we're building for long term. How can you say Seraphin was a bad pick? He's still a young project player, who has the physical tools and is smarter player that I thought he would be....let's see what he can do in the 2nd part of the season, now that he has more opportunity to play.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 9:45 PM | Report abuse

By the way, all of you Javale haters, even though nobody is more pessimistic than I am regarding the Wizards, you simply have to give him time. I know that he continues to show his unbelievably low basketball IQ, but he is 7 feet tall, very athletic, and has good hands. He simply HAS to be good some day. Doesn't he?

Posted by: larryrob | February 23, 2011 9:46 PM | Report abuse

I agree, but we're in the 1st year of rebuilding, let's give it a chance. In a couple years we'll have more cap room to spend on free agents, and by then Wall will be hopefully a much better player that free agents will wanna come play with him.

Why would they want to come play for a 30 win team? Ted has to consider paying for a stop gap guy (Gerald Wallace type) to at least get the team to a respectable level so others may want to come. It's late February and not a single player is standing out as the #1 pick....this draft sucks, cant bury our heads in the sand and pretend whomever we get with the 5th pick is going change our fortunes. Realistically they're not. Meanwhile the Knicks are assembling a 5th seed type team that will crush us every time we face them. Bulls are young and awesome. Miami. Atlanta is young. Boston's Big3 will be in their 40s and still beating us. If Ted's not careful, this team will be locked in the cellar and headed nowhere...

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Javila: WE are not building for the long term at all. WE are dumping salary and stockpiling young projects. Ted Leonsis spins this as building for the future.

Posted by: larryrob | February 23, 2011 9:53 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards will not even be close to a .500 team for years to come. They are in the East with some very talented teams that are only going to get better. The Wizards are not even close to these teams talent-wise:

Knicks
Celtics
Heat
Pacers
Hawks
Bulls
Bucks
Orlando
Sixers
Hornets

Brick will be trying to get out of here soon. I am not renewing my season tix next year!

Posted by: squidward1 | February 23, 2011 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Seriously....what a joke.

Another case of the idiot EG moving players just to move players....and Hinrich was supposed to come here as Wall's mentor.

Now, Les BouleS have 3 new dudes here who are all about the same size as Wall with nothing special about any of them. Another draft pick? Please.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 23, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

"But, name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter."


Jermaine O'Neal.

Not saying that's where McGee's career is headed, but it took O'Neal 6 years to really develop his potential. It wasn't really until his 5th year that the light came on and he started getting regular minutes and producing regularly.
Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 9:25 PM

Nope.

J O'Neal barely played his third year (I think he appeared in fewer than 30 games). And if you check the record on what was written and said around and from the Blazers at the time, it wasn't because he couldn't play, but because he was on a contending team loaded with recent and current all-stars on the front line. It was a numbers game and, as a young guy, he lost out. And even if it had been because he couldn't play, he at least had the excuse of not getting ay regular game-time PT. McGee doesn't have that excuse. He's been a regular part of the rotation for the vast majority of his 3 years in the NBA and a starter for all but 4 games this season. (He starters as many games last season as O'Neal did his entire time in Portland.) He's had plenty of opportunity to show some continued development when it counted. But after a brief flash earlier this season, he's been quickly and steadily regressing.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 10:02 PM | Report abuse

He simply HAS to be good some day. Doesn't he?

No, but there's no reason not to give him through his rookie deal to see what he can do.

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Just checked. O'neal played in 36 games his 3rd season, playing about 9 mpg.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 10:08 PM | Report abuse

I have no idea who larry rob is, but I agree with him.

javale has better numbers than ben wallace had after 3 yrs, slightly lower than Sheed, Jermaine Oneal didn't get it until later.

Manu made his move in his 3rd year, and he was 25 as a rookie.

Jalen Rose didn't jump til his 6th year

there are lots of players that took a bt to develop...esp ones that didn't do much college. Not saying Javale will be the greatest, but he is a step up from Haywood and will get better in each of the next 5 years...barring injury.

Maybe we could trade him to Detroit so they can win a championship with him in 3 years.

Posted by: Blurred | February 23, 2011 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich is the best player in this deal, and the 1st round pick will be the best thing the Wizards got back in return. Bibby's finished, and Crawford and Evans aren't any good. And anybody that mentions Crawford's dunk on Lebron at a camp as if it means something is a clown. When summer camp highlights are your claim to fame, you're not very good.

Posted by: justice98 | February 23, 2011 10:09 PM | Report abuse

" But after a brief flash earlier this season, [McGee]'s been quickly and steadily regressing.Posted by: kalo_rama"

He's a really good dunker, though. That's the important thing.

It's all about the ratings. Maybe there could be an 'All-Dunk League' where that was the only shot that counted? Javale would really smoke up that league.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Why would they want to come play for a 30 win team? Ted has to consider paying for a stop gap guy (Gerald Wallace type) to at least get the team to a respectable level so others may want to come. It's late February and not a single player is standing out as the #1 pick....this draft sucks, cant bury our heads in the sand and pretend whomever we get with the 5th pick is going change our fortunes. Realistically they're not. Meanwhile the Knicks are assembling a 5th seed type team that will crush us every time we face them. Bulls are young and awesome. Miami. Atlanta is young. Boston's Big3 will be in their 40s and still beating us. If Ted's not careful, this team will be locked in the cellar and headed nowhere...

Posted by: divi3

Like I said hopefully they would want to come here if and when Wall will be a much better player by then...and with all these draft picks and young players we're acquiring, they would wanna come here to be the 2nd part of the Big 2 to get us to more respectable team. You also have to remember, we're not the only team suffering from the rest of the East getting better....IMO teams like ATL and Philly will suffer more than we will....cause their teams are build to win now(since they don't have as much cap space in the future), and they won't even get passed 1st rd playoffs in the next few years. I am with you though, I'm just wishingful thinking that these High end FAs are gonna wanna come here.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 10:10 PM | Report abuse

"javale has better numbers than ben wallace had after 3 yrs, slightly lower than Sheed, Jermaine Oneal didn't get it until later."

This has always been and always will be a terrible argument.

Just because two guys have similar numbers at a similar stage of their careers in no way shape or form can be used as an indicator (let alone a predictor) of similar career development arcs. Wallace's, O'Neal's, Rose's, or anyone else's numbers in their third years have nothing whatsoever to do with McGee. And as anyone who's actually watched him play knows full well, his numbers don't actually tell the story of what his issues are.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 23, 2011 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Or what about an 'All-Twenty-Footer League', where every shot had to be in the 'sh**-shot' area, 16 to 23 feet. Nick Young a sure All-Star.

Suppose there were a special league for really soft big guys. We'd be contenders there.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Flip using the trades as an excuse for tonight...christ he is so lame. At least Wall is calling his teamates out

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 10:15 PM | Report abuse

I know this is not the game thread, but Trevor Booker is looking like an upgrade over Andre Blatche.

Posted by: bazookajoe1 | February 23, 2011 9:19 PM
---------------------------------
For Sure...Let the truth be told!

Posted by: bazteal | February 23, 2011 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Javila: WE are not building for the long term at all. WE are dumping salary and stockpiling young projects. Ted Leonsis spins this as building for the future.

Posted by: larryrob


Isn't that what rebuilding is? Would you rather have the Big 3 back with their big salaries? I don't know about you, but I'll take a cheaper younger team, than an older over paid team that has no extra cap room and will not even have a chance to get passed the 2nd rd of playoffs.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 10:18 PM | Report abuse

So you get rid of two players for 3 players.....What to do with Shakur!!! I thought he was the future!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 23, 2011 10:21 PM | Report abuse

They didn't trade for him, they signed him as a FA.


Oh Yeah... My bad.

Posted by: bullwiz81 | February 23, 2011 10:22 PM | Report abuse

This is nothing more than to quote a politician "lipstick on a pig" Bibby is on the downside of his career,Evans is good but where's his motivation gonna be with this bunch and will Crawford develop? and if he does where does that leave Nick Young even with the Hawk's #1 does this scouting staff know how to address this teams needs? a lot of questions but very few answers.

Posted by: dargregmag | February 23, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Javila, do not confuse salary dumping to save money with the term rebuilding. A "cheap" team saves ownership money, it does nothing for the fans. As far as the big three goes, name a current Wizard who is better that any of the big three. Times up Javila.

Posted by: larryrob | February 23, 2011 10:33 PM | Report abuse

This trade is just a shuffling of pawns, nothing more. Bibby is spent, Jordan Crawford... dunked over Lebron once... and Maurice Evans is a career benchwarmer. The success or failure of the trade depends on what happens with the draft pick which, in the early 20s, is no guarantee, especially considering Grunfeld's draft record. What the trade does do is give us more to speculate on draft day. I dig it, as it is traditionally the only time we can get excited about our prospects.

Posted by: SammyT1 | February 23, 2011 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Flip using the trades as an excuse for tonight...christ he is so lame. At least Wall is calling his teamates out

Posted by: divi3 | February 23, 2011 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Divi3 - Yep I saw that too, and thought it was unbelieveable. They were going to lose that game regardless.

John Wall post game comments were chilling. Something is about to go down, you can just see it.

I don't know what is going on with my boy Javelle. AB is still not playing with any passion.

Lastly, Nickie Young better watch his back because J. Crawford is no joke. That was an excellent trade Ernie made. Now all he has to do is promote Sam as head coach.

Posted by: BulletsFever | February 23, 2011 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Blatche has got to go...like now. His trade value COULD increase from here, but it's more likely to go down given that 50% of his value is that he's "still so young". Won't be able to play that card (with the same success) when he turns 25 this summer.

Posted by: dfresh58 | February 23, 2011 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Javila, do not confuse salary dumping to save money with the term rebuilding. A "cheap" team saves ownership money, it does nothing for the fans. As far as the big three goes, name a current Wizard who is better that any of the big three. Times up Javila.

Posted by: larryrob


In order to start to rebuild, you have to dump high salaries in your current team to try to improve them. Maybe it does nothing for you as a fan, but it does for me who's been a Bullets fan since 1982. I would take the current team to the Big 2 we had the past 2 years. I can say John Wall is better right now than GA who's barely playing right now in Orlando. CB as much as I really liked him, was always injury prone, and is out for the year now. Jamison, loved what he did for us while he was here, but he wasn't gonna help us more than what he has already given us.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Hinrich is the best player in this deal, and the 1st round pick will be the best thing the Wizards got back in return. Bibby's finished, and Crawford and Evans aren't any good. And anybody that mentions Crawford's dunk on Lebron at a camp as if it means something is a clown. When summer camp highlights are your claim to fame, you're not very good.

Posted by: justice98 | February 23, 2011 10:09 PM

justice98, Perhaps you can share with us what you know about Jordan Crawford, and how many games you've seen Mo Evans play?

You seem to make such a definitive judgment of their 'Balling Abilities' I was just curious about what you knew about them?

Posted by: bazteal | February 23, 2011 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Knicks get Melo

Nets get Williams

Wizards get Bibby, Crawford, Evans and a draft pick which in about 5 years when he starts to get some playing time we'll know if he is any good or just another Ernie bust like the rest of the mid 1st round draft picks Ernie has on the team.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 23, 2011 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Ted Leonsis has made no secret of his preference to always get a young player and a draft pick in a trade. Let's just wait and see how that approach pans out. I have a good feeling about it.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | February 23, 2011 10:58 PM | Report abuse

kalo_rama,

Point taken.

That still doesn't answer the original question.

Original question: "Name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter?"

Your answer with respect to O'Neal is that he doesn't count because his production when he was at Portland was more about opportunity, than demonstrated ability. When he got a chance to play, he produced.

OK.

Putting aside the question about whether McGee's career will track with O'Neal's (it won't), the question still remains:

Has there ever been a player who looked as clueless on the court (as McGee is claimed to be) in his first three years who developed into a quality NBA starter?

Out of curiosity: Is your answer "no" to the original question?

In McGee's case I think part of the issue is still size as much as basketball IQ. If he could get his weight up closer to 270, it would help him against the bigger NBA centers.

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 11:00 PM | Report abuse

This is a great deal, and Jordan Crawford is the best part, in my view. He can shoot, yes, but he's also a slasher who can finish at the rim. I liked him at Indiana before he burst onto the scene at Xavier and the LeBron camp. He needs time on the floor, and he'll get it with the Wizards.

Obviously the Hawks' first-round draft pick also is sweet.

Sorry to see Hinrich go, but I'm glad he's got a chance to play for a contender. He and Joe Johnson make a tremendous backcourt, plus they got the other Crawford to bomb away off the bench.

Bibby will be an adequate backup/mentor for Wall, but he and Evans will be gone soon enough.

Posted by: zinger1 | February 23, 2011 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Why would they want to come play for a 30 win team? Ted has to consider paying for a stop gap guy (Gerald Wallace type) to at least get the team to a respectable level so others may want to come.

Posted by: divi3

Hmm. Orrrrrr, you start acquiring young players and draft picks and use them as bait to trade for one of them who's on a contract that's about to expire. Not that that has happened recently or anything.

Posted by: ts35 | February 23, 2011 11:04 PM | Report abuse

kalo_rama,

Point taken.

That still doesn't answer the original question.

Original question: "Name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter?"

Your answer with respect to O'Neal is that he doesn't count because his production when he was at Portland was more about opportunity, than demonstrated ability. When he got a chance to play, he produced.

OK.

Putting aside the question about whether McGee's career will track with O'Neal's (it won't), the question still remains:

Has there ever been a player who looked as clueless on the court (as McGee is claimed to be) in his first three years who developed into a quality NBA starter?

Out of curiosity: Is your answer "no" to the original question?

In McGee's case I think part of the issue is still size as much as basketball IQ. If he could get his weight up closer to 270, it would help him against the bigger NBA centers.

Posted by: JPRS


Maybe Ben Wallace and Nick Young? I'm not confident with this answer, I'm just asking the question really.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 11:11 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry Javila, do not confuse salary dumping to save money with the term rebuilding. A "cheap" team saves ownership money, it does nothing for the fans. As far as the big three goes, name a current Wizard who is better that any of the big three. Times up Javila."

Which free agents should the Wizards have signed?

Leonsis's track record in the NHL shows that he's willing to spend money. He's just not willing to spend big bucks for a mediocre product. He wants to build a winner.

As far as the Wizards talent go, John Wall is arguably better than any of the "Big" Three right now. He may not be as good as Arenas and Jamison were in their prime, but he has the potential upside to be a more complete player than any of them.

Arenas's contract was also a big burden on the teams flexibility. When they dealt him for Lewis that increased their flexibility.

In two or three years, when Wall is probably starting to enter his prime, then the Wizards will probably start making more aggressive moves in free agency.

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Overall, I like the deal. I liked what Hinrich was supposed to bring to the table, but he never seemed to fit in here. Crawford has a ton of talent, and is a rookie. It just remains to be seen if he can develop into a player. Assuming Young stays, Crawford has the chance to develop behind him and provide much needed scoring punch off the bench if nothing else.

Bibby will do what Bibby does, and will be gone in a year, if not sooner. The pick obviously gives them the opportunity to keep adding pieces. The team still needs to have some tough-minded, hustle-oriented vets. It will be interesting to see if Evans stays and fills that role.

Just looking at the current mocks, it looks like there will be some size worth looking at in the 20-24 range, or depending on what they do with their higher pick, they could look for a SF or a quick, defensive PG to back up Wall.

Posted by: ts35 | February 23, 2011 11:21 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry Javila, do not confuse salary dumping to save money with the term rebuilding. A "cheap" team saves ownership money, it does nothing for the fans. As far as the big three goes, name a current Wizard who is better that any of the big three. Times up Javila."

Which free agents should the Wizards have signed?

Leonsis's track record in the NHL shows that he's willing to spend money. He's just not willing to spend big bucks for a mediocre product. He wants to build a winner.

As far as the Wizards talent go, John Wall is arguably better than any of the "Big" Three right now. He may not be as good as Arenas and Jamison were in their prime, but he has the potential upside to be a more complete player than any of them.

Arenas's contract was also a big burden on the teams flexibility. When they dealt him for Lewis that increased their flexibility.

In two or three years, when Wall is probably starting to enter his prime, then the Wizards will probably start making more aggressive moves in free agency.

Posted by: JPRS

I never mentioned them signing somebody in the past, I was talking about future FAs now that they have more cap room.

Yes at GA and AJ's prime, and CB too, they were better than Wall of now. But you're question was name someone in the current Wizards roster better than the Big 3, without mentioning in their prime.

That's all I'm saying too, 2 years from now(which is the rebuilding plan), maybe Ted will open his wallet and gamble on a Big name FA.

Posted by: javila1 | February 23, 2011 11:28 PM | Report abuse

FIRE GRUNFELD!!!!!
I admit that I don't know much about Jordan Crawford's or Maurice Evans' potentials but I do know Ernie Grunfeld's record of bringing losers like Hilton Armstrong and Yi Jianlian to DC. Hinrich was probably the only passable move made by Grunfeld since the 2010 Draft bailed out his sorry team with the No. 1 draft pick. At least Hinrich was coming along offensively and was one of the few on the team who knows "Defense" is acutally a word "in the dictionary".
And what are going to do with aging point guard Mike Bibby while he is waiting to collect Social Security? He doesn't have the flexibility that Hinrich had to play either the 1 or the 2. Perhaps he and Rashard Lewis can get Wizards-emblazoned shawls and get to sit in rocking chairs at the end of the bench. Yeah, they could sit there while the game is going on and laugh and high-five each other about how good they used to be 10 years ago when they last had game.
FIRE GRUNFELD and while he's being escorted out of the building, let him stop by Flip Saunders' office so we can have him take his loser coach with him out to the corner of 7th and H St where the both of them can be available for the next garbage pick-up!

Posted by: ManAlive1951 | February 23, 2011 11:28 PM | Report abuse

javila1,

I agree with you. The moves are all being done with an eye toward positioning the team two or three years down the road.

My post was to larryrob (I needed to include a @larryrob -- the quote that I took was from his post).

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 11:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking back to LarryInClintonMD's utter incredulity at the thought that some team would give up a first for Kirk. Turns out they gave up more than that.

I'd like to see them move Rashard but that might be too much to hope for. He's got that wretched contract around his neck. And you wouldn't want to see them take on too much in return.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone think that Bibby will be bought out and return to Hotlanta in 30 days?

Because I just can't see him hanging around here. Unless maybe Flip sells him on the idiotic on three-guard offense.

Posted by: NWDC3 | February 23, 2011 11:41 PM | Report abuse

RE: "Name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter?"

How about Eric Dampier or Theo Ratliff?

Neither has been an All-Star, but both have sustained long NBA careers and have had handful of quality years as NBA starters.

Unlike McGee, they also both had the advantage of finishing at least 3 years of college ball before making the jump to the NBA (4 in the case of Ratliff, 3 for Dampier).

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 11:43 PM | Report abuse

"[Bibby] doesn't have the flexibility that Hinrich had to play either the 1 or the 2."

Here we go again with that PG/SG stuff. The issue is, can he play next to John Wall? In terms of outside shooting and ball handling, sure he can. You lose on defense.

Besides, Bibby's not a long-term item for the Wiz.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 23, 2011 11:44 PM | Report abuse

RE: "Name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter?

Never. Or plenty of times. It really depends on how serious the questioner is about JaVale's 'cluelessness'.

Plenty of players have started slow and gone on to have good to great careers. Ben Wallace. Tyson Chandler. Chauncey Billups. Jermaine O'Neal. Etc.

Posted by: ts35 | February 24, 2011 12:28 AM | Report abuse

We are gonna need some first round draft picks to package with 7 Day Dray..Trust me, this bum is gonna be damn near impossible to move...

Kirk, outside of JW and Josh's injuries, was by far the best player on the roster..But we couldnt win sh** with or without him. So this is a cost cutting move that landed us a few first rounders..

Good job EG..

Now figure out how to undo the Blatche F UP

Posted by: kevenjones | February 24, 2011 12:35 AM | Report abuse

"Plenty of players have started slow and gone on to have good to great careers. Ben Wallace. Tyson Chandler. Chauncey Billups. Jermaine O'Neal. Etc."

Posted by: ts35 | February 24, 2011 12:28 AM

And plenty more players have started slow and gone on to have undistinguished careers. Which is why comparing McGee's stats to cherry-picked stats of other players at the same stage is a meaningless exercise with regard to charting his growth potential.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 24, 2011 12:55 AM | Report abuse

Alright... now that we have a late first round pick, who would you take with the ATL pick?

Posted by: bullets8890 | February 24, 2011 1:02 AM | Report abuse

"Out of curiosity: Is your answer "no" to the original question?"

Posted by: JPRS | February 23, 2011 11:00 PM

My answer to the original question isn't "no" because the original question ("Name another player that looks so clueless on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter.") wasn't a "yes" or "no" question. Hell, technically, it wasn't a question at all.

Beyond that, I think my previous posts on the topic make my position on the topic pretty clear.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 24, 2011 1:11 AM | Report abuse

Alright... now that we have a late first round pick, who would you take with the ATL pick?

Posted by: bullets8890 | February 24, 2011 1:02 AM | Report abuse

Nolan Smith

Which of the following 3 least wanted to be a Wizard?

Big Z
Gooden
Bibby

Man Bibby fell off the map quickly. He will have a short career here than Hinrich.

Nice move EG keep up the good work, I will take Crawford and next year #1 for Hinrich in a heartbeat.

Posted by: dcinmd1 | February 24, 2011 1:14 AM | Report abuse

"How about Eric Dampier or Theo Ratliff?"

Nope.

Dampier and Ratliff were never more than 1-dimensional role players. Now, they were useful 1-dimensional role players who contributed to good teams, but to call them "good to very good players as starters" is a stretch. Add to that the fact that, at some point in each of their careers, they signed long-term contracts that resulted in them being grotesquely overpaid for what they actually produced and, rather than predictive role models for Blatche, they should really serve as cautionary tales for Wizards' management when it comes time to decide whether to re-sign McGee.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 24, 2011 1:19 AM | Report abuse

That notwithstanding, neither of them regularly appeared as fundamentally lost on the court as McGee too often does.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 24, 2011 1:22 AM | Report abuse

kalo_rama,

So, I take the answer to be: Yes, there have been some players who started slow and developed into quality NBA players "and plenty more players have started slow and gone on to have undistinguished careers".

Fair enough.

Posted by: JPRS | February 24, 2011 1:43 AM | Report abuse

"So, I take the answer to be: Yes, there have been some players who started slow and developed into quality NBA players "and plenty more players have started slow and gone on to have undistinguished careers"."

Posted by: JPRS | February 24, 2011 1:43 AM

God, is there some forum rule that requires people to willfully (and blatantly) misrepresent what other people said before pretending to "respond" to it? I mean, if you're going to do something like that, at least attempt to b subtle about it.


Your "take" is of course, obviously rigged because, of course, that wasn't the actual question, was it? The question (which wasn't actually a question, but whatever) was:

"Name another player that looks so clueless [as McGee] on the court in his 3rd season and went on to be a good to very good player as a starter?"


Not really the same thing, is it? The "question" was never a generic, hypothetical. It very specifically addressed McGee's frequent lack of even minimal court sense, 3 years into his career with 81 starts under his belt.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 24, 2011 2:36 AM | Report abuse

kalo_rama,

This is pretty silly, but here we go:

1a. The question takes the form of a thought-experiment.

1b. The thought-experiment attempts to make a prediction about the development of a player.

2. If the answer is "I can't name a player that ever defied XYZ trend," then the person accepts the implied thesis (e.g. not much hope for McGee to develop into a good to very good starter). That's the only step necessary.

3a. If a person finds a counter-example, the question has two aspects.

"Name another player . . " only imposes three limits: name an NBA player with X development by the 3rd year who later developed into X+ NBA starter.

That's pretty generic.

The second part of the question is more specific: Of the pool of possible examples do any apply to McGee's case?

It is possible to have a condition where the thesis is only partially modified (e.g. "yes, there are players who were clueless as 3rd year players who later developed, but their case is somehow not applicable to McGee's because of XYZ").

The question doesn't ask where McGee is presently in his development -- it takes it as a given that he isn't where he needs to be.

Saying "he's taken a step back this year" is a description about his current development, it's not a prediction about future development (e.g. "McGee has minimal court sense three years into his career" is also a description, not a prediction).

"McGee will never develop into a good or even very good NBA starter" is one answer -- a direct one (e.g. based on the thought-experiment, because there has never been a player who has made a significant leap in development beyond the 3rd year).

"McGee might develop based on these examples into a good or even very good NBA starter" (e.g. based on these relevant examples that I've found) is another possibility.

McGee might not develop, even though I've found examples of players who made huge developmental leaps after the 3rd year is also possible (especially if a person demonstrates that the example is somehow not relevant). The Jermaine O'Neal case might fall into this category.

Of course, even if the O'Neal case applies in part to the question, but not to McGee case; there still may be other cases that are relevant to McGee's case that offer evidence of development beyond year 3.

Posted by: JPRS | February 24, 2011 4:07 AM | Report abuse

To Wiz fans who only think of the present and maybe next season, all the EG moves must seem stupid and disgusting. I can totally understand that.

I'm crazy about the moves, because the Wiz finally are building the right way for the future. No more trading away the future for the right now.

EG and Ted are thinking three years down the road at least, and many of the fans are going to be infuriated in the short run. The two young guys brought into the team (Crawford and the #1) amy or may not be keepable talents. But if you try enough of these moves, you can build a solid core of young talent with plenty of upside who can grow together to win at the highest levels. It takes time.

You have to just totally forget about Lewis, Bibby, Evans, Yi, or whoever else it is you don't like. Just keep focused on whether a young guy has a chance to be a big piece of the future. That's the game now.

Hinrich is much better than Bibby for the Hawks. But for the Wiz? To get a couple young guys to throw into the mix for the future, the Wiz gave up some in the short term, but not much. Bibby could be almost as valuable as Hinrich as a backup, especially since he sinks threes. So you lose a little for a year and a half? That means nothing.

Posted by: EdDC | February 24, 2011 9:21 AM | Report abuse

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