Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
Posted at 11:28 AM ET, 03/10/2011

Poll: Majorities support recall of two Wisconsin GOP senators

By Greg Sargent

Here's something that could give some momentum to efforts to recall Wisconsin GOP state senators in the wake of last night's end-run passage of Scott Walker's measure to roll back public employee bargaining rights.

I've got an advance look at some new polling by Survey USA that finds solid majorities in two GOP senate districts support the recall of their senators. The poll was paid for by MoveOn, which obviously has an ax to grind in this fight, but Survey USA is a respected non-partisan pollster that's routinely cited by major news organizations.

Here are the numbers, sent over by a MoveOn official, in the districts of GOP senators Dan Kapanke and Randy Hopper.

When asked if they would vote for Hopper or someone else if a recall election were held right now, 54 percent said they'd vote for someone else, versus only 43 percent they'd vote for Hopper.

In Kapanke's district, the numbers were even worse: 57 percent said they'd vote for someone else, versus only 41 percent who said they'd vote for Kapanke.

It gets even more interesting. The poll was taken yesterday, before last night's events, and fifty-six percent of voters in Kapanke's district, and 54% of voters in Hopper's district, said if their Senator voted for Walker's plan, it would make them more likely to vote for someone else. Last night, both Senators did vote for Walker's rollback of bargaining rights.

Survey USA surveyed 400 voters in the district of each Senator. In fairness, this poll asks people to choose between their senator and an unnamed opponent, when in reality they would face a real live human being in a recall election. But this is how recalls work: First support needs to be built up for the recall of an official, and once the key procedural hurdles are surmounted, someone steps up in the role of challenger and is nominated by the opposing party in what is effetively a special election.

This poll suggests that in two districts at least, support for recall is already there, which is a good gauge of the intensity of grassroots anger at Wisconsin Republicans and will only give momentum to efforts to gather the signatures required to make the recalls happen.

UPDATE, 11:34 a.m.: A MoveOn official adds that the organization has already raised over $800,000 to support the recall drives against GOP senators.

By Greg Sargent  | March 10, 2011; 11:28 AM ET
Categories:  Labor  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Feingold: Wisconsinites will hold Republicans accountable
Next: Newsflash: Recalls are legitimate in Wisconsin

Comments

Mr Sargent has a poll
E I
E I
OOOOOO

Once again, the left is in reaction mode. That's where we need to keep them.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 10, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Good stuff, Greg!

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 10, 2011 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Support the WI RECALL:

http://www.actblue.com/page/wiscrecall

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 10, 2011 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Obama’s Approval Ratings Among Independents Down to 37%, Tanks 10 Points in One Month
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/50954.html

Reuters Poll: 64% Say America on Wrong Track, Highest Number Since Obama Took Office
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/09/us-obama-poll-idUSTRE7284SZ20110309

*Pelosi-Obama-Reid (POR) Economy*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Eight (8) of the 12 missing Democratic State Senators are being recalled too. At least give the full story, Greg.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 10, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Greg, thanks for the explanation of how it works. I was thinking there were three steps: 1) petition drive; 2) recall vote; 3) special election for replacement. Combining 2 & 3 makes more sense.

Of course, gaining 2 seats isn't enough for the Dems to regain control of the WI Senate.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 10, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Anyone wanna match me?

I threw in $80 to the actblue wiscrecall link above.

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 10, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I predict the recalls will successfully take place before the Senate's actions last night can take effect. This is going to be contested in court. I hate to give skipsailing a coronary, but the GOP grand strategy for 2012 started in WI has been an over reach and the middle of the road voter sees through it. Slightly less than 50% of the WI voters went to the polls in Nov, and 52% voted for him, slightly more than 25% of the registered voters. His Trojan Horse tactic is no different than what Bush did in 2000 when he won by a single SCOTUS vote. Yet, he preened and strutted like he had a mandate.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 10, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

National intertest in Wisconsin and the recalls is going to drop dramatically. As a result the protests will dry up and the recall efforts will stagnate and eventuality fail.

Posted by: johnyt1977 | March 10, 2011 11:48 AM | Report abuse

The "Recallers" have the momentum, now, but can they sustain it? It's going to take a lot of money, time, effort,

If the 2010 elections in the State of Wisconsin is a "guide," then the "results" are already known.

Posted by: dozas | March 10, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The recall debate in Wisconsin is limited by a law disallowing recalls before an elected official has served a year into the current term.

This law will prevent recalls from being launched against the governor, the Assembly and the new (Republican) half of the senators.

But the entrenched (Democrat) half of the Senate is vulnerable.

So, yeh, support recall... of the Democrat Fleebaggers!

Wisconsin Democrats face recall over dereliction of duty
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/wisconsin-democrats-face-recall-over-dereliction-of-duty

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"Progressive groups raise $200,000 in hours after WI vote, will target vulnerable GOP lawmakers"

The liberal groups Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Democracy For America raised $200,000 since Wednesday night's anti-union vote in Wisconsin and intends to use the money to target vulnerable lawmakers in the state.

A joint campaign by the groups at WarOnWorkingFamilies.com witnessed a dramatic surge in fundraising after Wisconsin Republicans bypassed protesting Senate Democrats and voted to curtail the collective bargaining rights of public employee unions. State Republicans, unable to reach a quorum on the budget without Democratic support, passed the anti-union provisions in a separate bill.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/10/progressive-groups-raise-200000-in-hours-after-wi-vote-will-target-vulnerable-gop-lawmakers/

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 10, 2011 11:54 AM | Report abuse

*Oh noes!*

VIDEO: Palin supports Dem Fleebagger recall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDiHjppqrI&feature=player_embedded

[Palin derangement outbursts in 4... 3... 2...]

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

[suekzoo1: "Progressive groups raise $200,000 in hours after WI vote, will target vulnerable GOP lawmakers"]

Translated: "Soros buys binky for rent-a-mob crybabies"

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 11:58 AM | Report abuse

clawrence12 writes
"Eight (8) of the 12 missing Democratic State Senators are being recalled too. At least give the full story, Greg."

Why don't you give us the update, cl? Who's organizing the signature gathering? How many signatures have they collected? Have they done any polling like that Greg cites, above?

Something tells me there are three guys in a bar at the intersection of two county highways in central Wisconsin, organizing a 'recall drive' of the 8 Dems who are eligible.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 10, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Only two? I certainly hope more than that are on the line.

Posted by: evietoo | March 10, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

This will not stand. Those on the right have no clue as to the giant that has been awaken across the land. They don't realize what they have done because they only listen to those who agree with them.

They have not clue and to the majority of Americans racist and ignorant come to mind. (I am white)

Posted by: DownriverDem | March 10, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

We had a new poster named JedG who made such a cogent point at the end of yesterday's morning plum I wish to repost it...

@JedG

Haven't seen you here before but welcome and hope you stick around. I'm close to your age and have similar experiences.

The point you bring up at the end of your post truly deserves repeating as you have nailed it and we can see visible proof ALREADY that confirms your thoughts.

"Regarding public employees unions, if it wasn't for the level of continuity the unions provide the political cronyism of the early 1900's would make any inefficiencies in our current governmental system look like child's play.

Within a year, Scott Walker and the Republicans would have Wisconsin's government in total nepotistic chaos."

Madison — The father of the state’s two most powerful legislators was named Tuesday as the head of the State Patrol.

Department of Transportation Secretary Mark Gottlieb passed over five current top officials at the State Patrol to give the job to Stephen Fitzgerald, 68, a former Dodge County sheriff with four decades in law enforcement who was until May the U.S. marshal in the Western District of Wisconsin. Fitzgerald ran for Dodge County sheriff again in September in the Republican primary but was defeated 2-to-1 by incumbent Sheriff Todd Nehls.

Fitzgerald starts Monday and will earn $105,700, slightly less than the current acting superintendent.

Fitzgerald’s sons – Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald (R-Horicon) and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) – took over the top positions in their respective houses after Republican victories in November’s elections. The appointment drew sharply divergent reactions in the capital city, ranging from praise to skepticism and outright criticism."

http://www.wisconsincrimenews.com/fitzgerald-selected-to-head-state-patrol-lawmakers-father-selected-over-five-other-candidates/

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 10, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

OT: ME US Foreign Policy update...

Even as France has now recognized Libya's opposition, presumably the committee of 19 in Benghazi as the legitimate government of Libya and as talk of a NATO no fly zone continues. Reuters reports our Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said today that the better-equipped forces of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi will prevail.

Clapper told the Senate Armed Services Committee that Libyan forces loyal to Gaddafi were better equipped and had more logistical resources, and "over longer term, that the regime will prevail."

Meanwhile, SoS HR Clinton says the US is suspending any work with the Libyian Embassy and theat they should close shop.

And a US intelligence chief, Lt Gen Ronald Burgess, told a Senate hearing: "My understanding as I've studied in my schools, that [a no fly zone] would be considered an act of war."

In a related story, the White House has informed the opposition in Yemen that we stand behind the country's 23 year dictatorship though we do support "dialog" and "reform".

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Because I'm not the supposed journalist who clawed his way up from that small Manhattan weekly in the 1990s to the New York Observer to New York magazine finally to The Washington FÜCKING Post, that's why.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 10, 2011 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Doe anyone else see the unmistakable hand of Haley Barbour (Most recent Chair of Repub Governors) in all of this? What is happening in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio is right out of The "Haley Barbour School of Plantation politics and management," which obviously plays in Mississippi, but...

Somewhere in my "historical mind's eye," I see General George Armstrong Custer, rallying his Michigan cavalry against the Confederates, "Come on, you Wolverines, show them what you are made of...." Custer, who was born in Rumsey, Ohio, but who was raised in Monroe, Michigan must be "rolling in his grave."

Posted by: dozas | March 10, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who is not rich (billionaire) and votes for the rebubs is a total fool. (Not to mention that we all know race plays a part too)

What these tea baggers don't get is repubs are gunning for them too unless they are very rich. The dumbing down of America that started in the 1970s is all part of the repub plan. Keep them ignorant, racist, homophob and hateful is all the repubs have. When these ignorant low info voters wake up, all I will be able to do is laugh.

Posted by: DownriverDem | March 10, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Jake...you're really losing it this morning aren't you...an F bomb from an "alleged" Christian like yourself. Tsk Tsk!

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 10, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

19 states are following the GOP play-book financed by Rove and friends. It is a hostile corporate take-over by thugs who lie to get into office and then privatize and destroy government institutions like public schools. Time to get up and try to save simple items like public schools, honest politics, honest courts, workers' rights. This is the second act following the ponzi scheme on Wall Street to strip the states of assets. 400 with the wealth of 150 million workers.

Posted by: LillithMc | March 10, 2011 12:26 PM | Report abuse

GOP leading the race to the bottom:

-Pay teachers less
-Crowd the classrooms
-Reduce funding to inner-city schools where minorites need it most
-Institute "charter/for profit schools" that don't perform better and discriminate
-reduce benefits

In Texas, 1/4 of the population is without health insurance and we will be laying off 100K teachers and staff. Imagine what that will do to the education of the kids-all because the GOP will not raise taxes of find ways to fund schools.

Fiscal malpractice on the part of the GOP wherever you look. Their aims are plain-
-disenfranchise voters,
-lower the standard of living and
-ship jobs overseas as fast as possible.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 10, 2011 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Yes LillithMc

And that's only part of the strategy.

Before long they'll have taken over the internet and so forget an populist uprising like the one we saw in Egypt...at least it won't have the internet as we know to coordinate it...The GOP has voted to take back the FCC decision on net neutrality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/10/fcc-net-neutrality-rules_n_833892.html

WASHINGTON — A Republican-controlled Congressional panel has voted to repeal new Federal Communications Commission rules that prohibit phone and cable companies from interfering with Internet traffic on their broadband networks.

These guys are pretty slick aren't they. At least in the old days they wore brown shirts and you could see them coming!

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 10, 2011 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"Here are the numbers, sent over by a MoveOn official..." Need anyone say more.

Posted by: annster123 | March 10, 2011 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Can we stop acting as if people who work for the government are the heroes of working people?

Fine, we understand that Wisconsin public sector employees like the system that pays them an average of $76,500 per year, with splendiferous benefits, and are fighting like wildcats against any proposed reforms to that system. But it's madness to keep treating people who are promoting their own self-interest as if they are James Meredith walking into the University of Mississippi.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Public sector workers are pursuing their own narrow financial interests to the detriment of everyone else in their states. That's fine, but can we stop pretending it's virtuous?

Because of the insane union contracts in Wisconsin, one Madison bus driver, John E. Nelson, was able to make $159,000 in 2009 -- about $100,000 of which in overtime pay. Jackie Gleason didn't make that much playing bus driver Ralph Kramden on "The Honeymooners." Seven bus drivers took home more than $100,000 that year.

When asked about the outrageous overtime pay for bus drivers -- totaling $1.94 million in 2009 alone -- Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson said: "That's the contract."

It's ludicrous to suggest that these union contracts were fairly bargained. Only one side was at the negotiating table. Ordinary people with jobs were not at the meetings where public sector compensation was discussed.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

When all is said and done hope all REPUBLICAN FASCISTS will be removed from office all accross the nation!they are turning our Republic into an Oligharchy, where Corporations rule! Hitler, Mussolini, Franco all right wingers did it in their time!

Posted by: mahilena | March 10, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

The Guide's son, Saif al-Islam, just told Reuters that Libya is committed to "democracy and freedom".

He should get a job with the Republican message management firm of Rove, Gillespie & Barbour.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 12:42 PM | Report abuse

[mahilena spat: "REPUBLICAN FASCISTS will be removed from office"]

*Leftist-Fascism Update*

Leftists Flood Twitter With Death Threats Against WI Gov. Scott Walker After Union Vote
http://www.therightscoop.com/death-wishes-and-hate-to-gov-walker-on-twitter/

[Remember all the TEA party death threats against Dems after ObamaCare was passed? Oh no, wait...]

*so progressive!*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Saif al-Islam also told Reuters (in English) that: "It's time for liberation. It's time for action. We are moving now." He adds: "We will never ever give up. We will never ever surrender. This is our country." How odd, he is posturing as if on the side of the rebellion.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

"""The "Recallers" have the momentum, now, but can they sustain it? It's going to take a lot of money, time, effort"""

TRUE!

TRUE TRUE TRUE!

Please (everyone) support the movement TODAY so they will have the resources to carry forward when the MSM stories dry up! Help out TODAY so we can make sure the recall effort get over the hump when the spotlight shifts to elsewhere:

http://www.actblue.com/page/wiscrecall

And if anyone can match me, I gave $80 about an hour ago. Thanks!

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 10, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

clawrence, I see you posting links for your friend khaddafi, why won't you post links to the recall efforts for the WI Dems? Is it perhaps that there really aren't any; or that they're embarrassingly small?

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 10, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

From pollster Nate Silver:

Voters from union households have in the past voted Republican 35-40%. If the Wisconsin events of the last month influence those voters to both increase turnout, and to drop their Republican vote percentage to say 30%, that would hurt Republicans by a couple of percentage points nationally.

And, if the Pew poll is right, Republicans will have no particular counterweight to this; the Wisconsin dispute has motivated the Democratic base more so than theirs.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/wisconsin-dispute-could-mobilize-democratic-base/?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 10, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

"Reduce funding to inner-city schools where minorities need it most"

There are a lot of problems here in DC with the public schools. I wish funding was one of those problems.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 10, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

" Ordinary people with jobs were not at the meetings where public sector compensation was discussed. "


The free market at work.

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 10, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Public sector workers are pursuing their own narrow financial interests to the detriment of everyone else in their states. That's fine, but can we stop pretending it's virtuous?

Because of the insane union contracts in Wisconsin, one Madison bus driver, John E. Nelson, was able to make $159,000 in 2009 -- about $100,000 of which in overtime pay
........

that's poor management.. which btw, is NOT the unions job..

Posted by: newagent99 | March 10, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Please be honest with yourselves. You leftists are the totalitarians. C'mon. First, there's an angry, red-faced mob of white people flooding the Capitol building and shouting down debate and threatening Republican lawmakers with death while your Democrat representatives flee the state and rile up their impressionable college constituency. Had the Tea Party exhibited this exact same behavior, what would you be calling them now? A mob of white fascists. But that's projection kiddos. It's you guys, right now, taking over government buildings. Something the Tea Party never did. You're the ones who will insist on what we can drive, what we should eat, what words are appropriate, how we should live with all your green nonsense. Face it. You people are collectivistic control-freaks. Creepy with that fey, magician eyed look always on your faces. There was more violence at a single G-20 left wing protest last year than there were at all the many hundreds of Tea Party rallies. While the left created 7.5 million dollars in damage to the Madison capitol, Tea Partiers showed up with mops and buckets to clean up the mess you left behind. You selfish, control-obsessed miscreants and the insipid hate you display for people who do not share your politics is truly, truly dangerous. I guess I could sum this up more succinctly - go eat a bag of d*cks.

Posted by: cartmaneric | March 10, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Wisconsin Walker seems to be a man of rock-solid conviction. That's rare in politics.

Sarge Greg is trying to scare Walker with a bunch of unreliable polls and it's not working.

Walker is not Clinton. I think Walker is saying, "stuff those polls where the sun don't shine".

Oops! Some of those pantywaist liberals might enjoy that.

Hey! Calm down. I'm just joking.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 10, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

OT: Very moving testimony by Ellison today.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/rep-keith-ellison-gives-emotional-testimony-on-behalf-of-muslim-first-responder/

Posted by: sbj3 | March 10, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Please be honest with yourselves. You leftists are the totalitarians. C'mon. First, there's an angry, red-faced mob of white people flooding the Capitol building and shouting down debate and threatening Republican lawmakers with death while your Democrat representatives flee the state and rile up their impressionable college constituenc
.........

sounds like the Continental congress. protests, blocking a quorum... no weapons.

democracy in action! excellent

Posted by: newagent99 | March 10, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

@SBJ

I'm proud of you. You get gold stars today for non partisanship!

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 10, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

""If the 2010 elections in the State of Wisconsin is a "guide," then the "results" are already known.""

Nothin' to worry about, then.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | March 10, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

bsimon1, I answered your questions already.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 10, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

NoVa-

That may be- no one can go into the homes of any child and make the parents be better teachers themselves.

Care to tackle why police and fire were exempted from this collective bargaining fiasco?

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 10, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

The Federal Reserve says household net worth rose to $56.8 trillion in the October-December quarter, even though the value of real-estate holdings fell. Americans' net worth still would have to rise an additional 16 percent to reach its pre-recession peak of $66 trillion. AP

Meanwhile, American corporate managers are sitting on still increasing cash stockpiles that as a percentage of corporate value, are higher than they have been in over 50 years.

The average American is worth 16% less than s/he was a few years ago while the captains of industry are bathed in money borrowed from...the taxes to be payed by the average American.

I don't think this (money) supply side thing is working, but I am not an expert.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

@ruk: I am actually happy to see so many people passionate about what is happening in Wisconsin. We need more people involved in politics. However, I personally don't care too much about what's going on there. I'd like to see more Plum Line coverage of some other topics.

Posted by: sbj3 | March 10, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst,

Regarding John Nelson, why don't you give the posters here the full story. It took me two seconds to find out that the guys base salary was $50,000 and the extra $109,000 was because he did overtime.

So let me see... this guy worked 100 hours during the work week and you are angry because he earned his pay.

The problem is the work rule that gives seniority the right of first refusal for overtime work. A simple cap to how much overtime you could do would solve it. Not lambast or sensationalize the fact this guy worked 100 hours a week. I though conservatives wanted the middle class to work an extra job to make ends meet.

The problem is that the bus service had inordinate number of people that took medical leave, they were shortstaffed and they had to scramble to make up the shortfall.

This stuff happens. There were few accidents, the ridership for the bus system was the second highest in its 40 year history.....

Even with the overtime pay, the total system was $400,000 over budget during the year, which was an exception to how they typically operate. So let me ask you, what exactly is your problem?

Posted by: joe_potosky | March 10, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"And, if the Pew poll is right, Republicans will have no particular counterweight to this; the Wisconsin dispute has motivated the Democratic base more so than theirs"

Perhaps all of the hispanics, gays, muslims, scientists, and African Americans they've been busy demonizing the past few years will come to their rescue.

Bwahahahaha!

Posted by: schrodingerscat | March 10, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

@cartmaneric

Do you know what the word hyperbole means?

Ahhh stoopid question right...you don't need no education. LMAO

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 10, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst,

Regarding John Nelson, why don't you give the posters here the full story. It took me two seconds to find out that the guys base salary was $50,000 and the extra $109,000 was because he did overtime.

So let me see... this guy worked 100 hours during the work week and you are angry because he earned his pay.

The problem is the work rule that gives seniority the right of first refusal for overtime work. A simple cap to how much overtime you could do would solve it. Not lambast or sensationalize the fact this guy worked 100 hours a week. I though conservatives wanted the middle class to work an extra job to make ends meet.

The problem is that the bus service had inordinate number of people that took medical leave, they were shortstaffed and they had to scramble to make up the shortfall.

This stuff happens. There were few accidents, the ridership for the bus system was the second highest in its 40 year history.....

Even with the overtime pay, the total system was $400,000 over budget during the year, which was an exception to how they typically operate. So let me ask you, what exactly is your problem?

Posted by: joe_potosky | March 10, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

It's a win-win situation for Republicans, in Wisconsin. If Walker wins the day, Wisconsin will avert financial meltdown and Repubs will be lookin' good.

If the cheeseheads backslide into their old socialistic ways and the unions take over everything, Wisconsin will continue to sink into the stinking mire of bankruptcy.

That will bust the unions because there will be forced, mass layoffs.

Either way unions will suffer.

It's best to take your medicine now, Wisconsin. Doctors orders.

And Wisconsin is not all that important for Obama's re-election.

Ohio will make him or break him in 2012.

The cheese state is small curds.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 10, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"I'd like to see more Plum Line coverage of some other topics."

Well, I'm trying.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

@joe

I suspect you are new here. His problem is really simple. He's a deranged hate spewing mulingin.

Stick around Joe there are many thoughtful posters. You'll either learn to scroll past KDE...just one of his sock puppets...or better still download Troll Hunter..it's free and I never see a KDE post.

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 10, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

""I'd like to see more Plum Line coverage of some other topics.""

Perhaps a supplement of other sites is indicated.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | March 10, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

joe (an obvious new poster here): "So let me ask you, what exactly is your problem?"

The regulars here regard it as mental illness, and pay it no mind.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 10, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

If eight of the fleebaggers are recalled and two of the Republicans are recalled, I believe the recall effort will be a net gain for Repubs.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 10, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Since Taxpayers pay for Public Employee Unions, why not let Taxpayers Vote directly, yes or no, should Public employee unions have collective bargaining?
Keep in mind, the Vast Majority of middle-class workers DO NOT - DO NOT have collective bargaining.
(and its not a "right" either!)

Posted by: ohioan | March 10, 2011 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Intersting. So there is a drive to recall senators (and a governor when they can) who were supposedly supported by out of state money from the Koch Bros. The drive to recall them is supported by... out of state money.

Hmm.

Posted by: Bailers | March 10, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

12 bars posted:

From pollster Nate Silver:

Voters from union households have in the past voted Republican 35-40%. If the Wisconsin events of the last month influence those voters to both increase turnout, and to drop their Republican vote percentage to say 30%, that would hurt Republicans by a couple of percentage points nationally.
__________________________________

I see your point, but I also think if this kind of thing catches on, it could be devastating for dems. Union membership may plummet, and while voters may be upset, with unions weakened, they will spend significantly less on elections, money that typically goes to support dems.

Like health care reform outraged voters on the right and sparked the tea party movement and transition to R control of House and many state legislatures, an admitted setback for dems in the short term, in the long term, dems achieved one of their holy grail objectives (the potential for a SCOTUS rejection of the law notwithstanding).

So, if this energizes the dems in the short term but severely weakens unions in the long term, I think it is a major republican benefit, good or bad.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"bsimon1, I answered your questions already."

I must've missed it. Can you repost? My questions were: who's organizing the recall effort of the 8 eligible Dem WI Senators? How many signatures have they collected? Is anyone polling (biased partisan firms included) those districts to establish whether there's a snowball's chance of recalling those senators? Or is it just a bunch of bar talk on the corner of 29 & 151?

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 10, 2011 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski. Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose.

Do you hear me, Lebowski? The bums will always lose!

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 1:17 PM | Report abuse

battleground- the poll refers only to 2 R senators, but there are more who are being recalled. I don't know if there are any polls showing the 8 Dem senators are likely to be recalled, but if there are, I would like to see them.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I am glad I don't drive much...

Today the six Arab states of the "Gulf Co-operation Council" meeting in Riyadh, promised "decisively and immediately, without hesitation" to crush any threat to their oil-kingdom hegemony.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"why not let Taxpayers Vote directly, yes or no, should Public employee unions have collective bargaining?"

Guess you haven't paid attention to the polling on this the last couple weeks, huh?

"(and its not a "right" either!)"

Interesting....St. Ronnie of Raygun said it was for Polish workers....

REAGAN: Ever since martial law was brutally imposed last December, Polish authorities have been assuring the world that they’re interested in a genuine reconciliation with the Polish people. But the Polish regime’s action yesterday reveals the hollowness of its promises. By outlawing Solidarity, a free trade organization to which an overwhelming majority of Polish workers and farmers belong, they have made it clear that they never had any intention of restoring one of the most elemental human rights—the right to belong to a free trade union.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 10, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

We must realize, people, that Wisconsin is one of the deepest, dyed-in-the-wool, bluest, most liberal Democrat states in America.

It is incredible that Republicans have been able to gain so much ground there.

Even if Republicans lose a little ground now, it's still an amazing feat of political gamesmanship.

Almost unbelievable!

Real change, real fast.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 10, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

*Union Betrayal*

AFL-CIO Organizes Union “Thank You” Party... for Republicans in DC
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51030.html

Delicious, Mr. Masoch?

Delightful, Count DeSade!

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Eight (8) of the 12 missing Democratic State Senators are being recalled too. At least give the full story, Greg.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 10, 2011 11:40 AM


Is this not true??


I assumed it was.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 10, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

sbj3, thanks for the link.

Because, as I have written before, I *know* the Muslim community in Austin is the major source for FBI information about suspects here, and I have read that FBI counts at least half of their many successes in thwarting Muslim terrorists in the USA as coming directly from volunteered information from Muslim - Americans, I offer some thoughts.

1] There is a place for these hearings.

2] The place is private.

3] The hearings should call FBI and Homeland Security folks and local law enforcement officials with specific needs or information as witnesses, not random Muslims..

The goal of the hearings would be to find out how Congress can help foster even more support from the Muslim communities around the nation. In fact, Lieberman aqnd Collins held these hearings already. They were closed. Harman may have, too.

This IRA sympathizer King is a bull in a china shop, a self-promoter, and it sounds to me as if he will prove a hindrance to information gathering. I wish FBI had convinced him - I am sure they tried.

A wag with a sense of humor like Kevin, or maybe Shrink, might have said the place for these hearings was in a nation actually facing the prospect of Islamic extremism, but notice that I did not go there. :-)

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 10, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Battleground- Definitely true that there is a recall drive against 8 democrats, but your earlier post at 1:11 seemed to confuse this poll, regarding only 2 republican senators, with the total number of republican senators subject to recall drives, which is higher.

I think some of the conversation around this is people asking to see any information about the prospects for success in the recall drives for democrat senators, since this poll seems to suggest that at least two of the republican senators subject to recall drives may be in danger.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Soon enough we'll see the results...some states went with the Republicans, some went with the Democrats. All of them have to balance their budgets, compete in the global economy and so on. If Wisconsin becomes Wississippi, everyone will notice.

If the West coast states which went very blue in November, bucking the national trend prosper relative to the places where people voted for the Republicans, everyone will notice. If on the other hand, the states run by the Democrats are doing worse than those which chose, freely and fairly, to elect Republicans then...everyone will notice.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I see your point, but I also think if this kind of thing catches on, it could be devastating for dems. Union membership may plummet, and while voters may be upset, with unions weakened, they will spend significantly less on elections, money that typically goes to support dems.
-------------------------------------------------------
You state the Republican argument perfectly. Or, perhaps we should say the Republican hope is that by kicking the props out from under unions, the Democratic Party will become a permanent minority.

We will have to see how the people react. Will they rise up finally when they see the grim reaper of Republican destruction coming for their jobs and incomes? Or will the people lie down peacefully and allow their throats to be cut?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 10, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

shrink- Right on. The states are the laboratories of democracy, although that's little consolation if you're living in one of the states where the hypothesis gets debunked.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"The states are the laboratories of democracy, although that's little consolation if you're living in one of the states where the hypothesis gets debunked."

OTOH you could be living in California and be farked.

Posted by: sbj3 | March 10, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

"...the most elemental human rights—the right to belong to a free trade union."

Ronald Reagan
--------------------------------------------------
This deserves to be repeated.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 10, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

12barblues- I think whether folks rise up depends largely on what Shrink mentions at 1:29, which is how the economies and budgets in the states look come election/recall time. If it creates a democrat wave large enough to undo the union legislation, then the long-term gain for republicans is eliminated.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Idaho Legislature Passes Wisconsin-Style Bill Limiting Teachers Union Collective Bargaining Powers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110309/ap_on_re_us/us_teachers_union_idaho

A bill that would phase out tenure for new teachers and restrict collective bargaining on their salaries and benefits is on its way to the Idaho governor.

*TEA-haw!*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

"...that's little consolation if you're living in one of the states where the hypothesis gets debunked."

I agree. I have asked lefty types about their choice to live in places where majorities always vote hard right and it seems as if they consider themselves as aid workers might, Peace Corpse volunteers in places where ignorance and degrading treatment of the weak and the vulnerable are the rule. [plz note this is 1/2 a joke, 1/2 serious]

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

All, another angle on the recall push:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/newsflash_recalls_are_democrat.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | March 10, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

sbj- Possibly. I won't make any predictions about how it works out. As a Marylander, my state has weathered the economic storm fairly successfully because we have such a large federal workforce that didn't face the same cutbacks as the rest of the country. Actually, fairly or unfairly, the creation of new federal jobs under the stimulus disproportionately favors Maryland and Virginia where many of these jobs are located.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Shrink- Same is true if you are a Republican in Maryland. I think a healthy balance is better. Conservative folks in Maryland and liberal folks in states that are overwhelmingly red might as well be disenfranchised. Plus if you are in a "one-party" state, you get no visits from presidential candidates/incumbents either.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

mobrien, those bedroom communities for The Most Powerful City in the World are going to be affluent, that is all there is to that. You are right that the test cases are in places where there is no particular reason for money to aggregate. Wisconsin, like Oregon are good test cases. Wisconsin chose people like Ron Johnson and Walker. Oregon chose people like Kitzhaber and Wyden and DeFazio (shh, we won't mention David Wu until he gets the help he needs, he may meet Charlie Sheen there, if they are lucky).

Posted by: shrink2 | March 10, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

@mobrien and shrink,

I think reaction of the people to current budget actions is twofold: one rational and one emotional. The rational reaction is, as you both say, to vote for the winner of the two approaches by the states.

The more emotional reaction is one rooted in tradition and patriotism. Many people consider unions to have a revered place in American history and union members consider themselves particularly patriotic to be a part of, and a supporter of, unions. Non union people also come from that heritage, and that's why the polls showed more than 60% of the public support the right to collectively bargain. People remember, or are related to people, who remember the horrendous treatment of workers that spawned the labor movement.

Americans don't like unfairness and what happened in Wisconsin will strike people as thuggish and unfair. That will swing votes toward Democrats.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 10, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"Care to tackle why police and fire were exempted from this collective bargaining fiasco?"

Chuck -- sorry I didn't see your post until now. I would think it's because Walker didn't think he had the political capital to take on all three at once. there was likely nothing to gain for him.

Don't know if you saw my "dialogue" with Ronnie, but in my view the following has occurred:

1) A Republican has attempted to bolster his parties fortunes by attempting to undermine a political adversary.
2) Democrats are fake-outraged at this.
3) People take their pre-determined sides
4) I point out that the teachers should have realized that when dealing with politicians, the only way to win is not to play
5) I am labeled a half-brained Republican by outraged Democrats for my lack of solutions.


Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 10, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

12Bars- Agree that is likely to swing things in favor of dems in the short-term, but if those gains are tempered by the strategy's having a beneficial effect on people's financial situations, then the short-term dem gains may not be sufficient to undo the long-term impact of reduced union clout.

If the passion favoring unions is not tempered by the success of the strategy in economic terms, then republicans could face a backlash that enables democrats to undo the damage to unions. Only time will tell.

Posted by: mobrien83 | March 10, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

novahockey writes
"I point out that the teachers should have realized that when dealing with politicians, the only way to win is not to play"

How would they do that - quit their jobs?

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 10, 2011 2:03 PM | Report abuse

NoVa-

Well, we'll wait and see if he has the "courage of his convictions", as someone else here posted, and follow up on those constituencies- you know, just to be consistent and all. I'll bet he doesn't.

I don't think you can say with a straight face that Democrats have "fake" outrage. Trouble with Walker is, he's a wimp and won't face the wrath of police and fire. He took the easy way out.

You know, Bull Connor had the courage of his convictions, too.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 10, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think you can say with a straight face that Democrats have "fake" outrage."

You're right. that's not fair. i should have qualified it to mean party officials and the like. not voters and or rank-and-file types.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 10, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

NoVa-

What makes you think "party officials and the like" have fake outrage?

I think you are misreading what Democrats as a whole believe or that the two groups you mention don't have similar goals or convictions. Good luck trying to divide the two groups you arbitrarily identify...

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 10, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"What makes you think "party officials and the like" have fake outrage?"

I think the Democratic party is using this to advance it's own agenda, which is getting more democrats elected. i think from their perspective, this is about education or worker's rights or anything that the teachers and their supporters care about. I'd say the same about republicans and any issue their supporters care about.

the two parties have a symbiotic relationship, and each is loving the fact they it can retreat to its respective corner and shout about how awful the other side is.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 10, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

This is insanity. People need to share their voice in one location and I mean a lot of people so that the politicians actually hear what is being said. There are a lot of different views and ideas for solutions. Let them all be heard and then the most favorable will emerge with the most support! Tell your politicians directly and share it with others who feel the way you do. Share it with those who feel passionate about a solution and those who have realistic ideas that could be accomplished. All our elected officials are on this one page for Wisconsin politics. If who you want to write happens to not be there, add them, and share with those of us who care your ideas please! http://www.fastnote.com/wipolitics

Posted by: polittessential | March 10, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Can't match you Ronnie, but I threw in some money as well.

http://www.actblue.com/page/wiscrecall

Posted by: michiganmaine | March 10, 2011 3:43 PM | Report abuse

my previous post: "this is *not* about education...

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 10, 2011 3:44 PM | Report abuse

So, as far as the Democratic vs Republican senator's recall, I specifically Googled "Democratic Wisconsin senators recall", and got several articles about the *republican* senator recall effort, and only this one about the dems:

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/02/10198/utah-group-seeks-recall-wisconsin-democratic-senators

Utah Group Seeks to Recall Wisconsin Democratic Senators

...The out-of-state group last week filed with the GAB website to recall the Senators, but initial filings did not have anyone from the local senatorial district as part of the recall requests...

So... the Republican recalls have solid majorities in their districts, while the Democratic recalls have NO ONE willing to even sign the initial requests!

Posted by: cjsal | March 10, 2011 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Can we recall Obama? There's tons of support for that....

Posted by: drjohn3 | March 10, 2011 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Well Greg, unless they recall every Senator, the Govenor and win 30 Assembly seats it pretty much all academic. They wont have the votes to over turn the law anyway. So as we like to say in the south They have a long row to hoe

Posted by: bjeagle784 | March 10, 2011 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Recall NOW ! Get involved ! YOU !

Posted by: PulSamsara | March 11, 2011 12:59 AM | Report abuse

The eight Wisconsin Republican senators will probably be recalled due to widespread public anger over their disregard to the law and disrespect for the working middle class. Hundreds of Wisconsinites turned out over the weekend to collect signatures to recall these deceitful and untrustworthy legislators. Only three of them need to be recalled for the Dems to have a majority again. I think more than that will be recalled. Then Walker will be next. The recall of the Democrats is a joke. First of all they are all from districts that are heavily Democratic and there is nooo chance that they will lose. People in their districts think that they are heroes for standing up for the working class and not caving to the billionaire Koch brothers and their puppets. Also this so called campaign to recall them is being run by an organization in Utah!!! It is also being funded by organizations that get their money from the Koch brothers. Forbes magazine said that the combined wealth of the Koch brothers makes them the 4th wealthiest people in the world. So why are Republicans bowing to the wishes of the richest people in the world and ignoring the needs and legitimate rights of the working middle class?

Posted by: bgk1232004 | March 11, 2011 1:43 AM | Report abuse

Greg it looks like you work for Moveon.org

Only question is do you work for free or pay?

Write a fair article on recall of all the WI state senators, not just the ones on Right.

Posted by: ChuckUpp | March 11, 2011 7:21 AM | Report abuse

And what is the deal with the orange shirts the WI assembly people were wearing.

Was that about deer hunting? or Prision wear for the bad stuff they do?

Posted by: ChuckUpp | March 11, 2011 7:24 AM | Report abuse

I love the orange for prison garb that the Demonrat WI Assemblydorks are wearing.

Of course, Sargent knows nothing about WI politics. First of all, only 8 of the 18 Rep Senators who voted for the budget are ELIGIBLE for recall, as they must have been in office one year before recall can be engineered legally.

Second, the feeble brain of the hysteric Sargent fails to understand that there is only ONE district of the eight that ARE eligible where the election was even close.

And given that suddenly all the WI newspapers and TV commentators [save the Bolshie Madison Madmen] trumpet that Walker pulled off a tremendous coup while the Demonrats made themselves look stupid---probably means that just like those ACORN lawsuits against James O'Keefe, the recall efforts just ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: djman1141 | March 11, 2011 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Yes, fairness isn't in the far-left DNA Greg shares with his MoveOn masters and the Grandmaster George Commie Soros.

Let's say eight of the fourteen fleebaggers also undergo a recall, as they are also eligible, and there is really only ONE seat where a GOP Senator who is eligible for recall might possibly be tossed in an election. My guess is that when the hysterical chimp & monkey acting out of the Dems is calmed by reflection, the WI voters will agree with the WI mass media [and reject the national we-know-better-than-you media] that Scott Walker pulled off a budgetary coup that will revitalize WI education for the best---now unions won't keep lousy teachers on because of seniority and the giant administrative overhang of bureaucratic fat and blubber of Michael Moore proportions will be pared way back to fiscally sane proportions.

Posted by: djman1141 | March 11, 2011 8:33 AM | Report abuse

How about this for a campaign slogan for a Dem running for Gov.

"Raise taxes, support the unions!"
or how about..
"Raise taxes on businesses, we only care about unions!"

Wow that ought to go over real big.
Then offer to give all the union workers raises...

Gallop poll 3/09/11

Of seven possible ways to balance their own state's budget, Americans are most likely to favor cutting back on state programs (65%) and reducing the number of state workers (62%). Floating more bonds (30%) and raising state income or sales taxes (33%) garner the least support, followed by raising business taxes (39%).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146525/Americans-Message-States-Cut-Dont-
Tax-Borrow.aspx

So what are the Dems going on run on? Collective bargaining and then do a surprise attack vote and raise taxes like Doyle, the previous Dem Gov, did?
People voted the Dems out for a reason and they aren't going to change and decide to raise taxes just because of collective bargaining that affects a small percentage of the population.

Posted by: rickshawjim | March 11, 2011 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.




characters remaining

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2011 The Washington Post Company